The Art of AMOG

If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.

One of the more contentious aspects of intersexual competition the early PUAs hit upon was the phenomenon of the AMOG – Alpha Male Of Group – and how ‘that guy’s’ apparent social dominance focused all interaction within a peer group on himself. The AMOG was an easy parody of a guy to hate on for early Game practitioners because his archetype was so relatable for men looking to improve their chances with women they’d never been able to consider before they discovered Game. The nefarious AMOG was their worst cock-blocking villain.

For a recovering Beta experimenting with Game for the first time it was bad enough that the very real, in-his-face proposition of rejection by women was always to be considered, but to have to account for a guy that looked (in his mind) like the typical jock who regularly out-Alpha’d him back in high school seems like an unfair obstacle to need to overcome. I think that a lot of men’s competition anxiety focuses on a very overdramatized caricature of the Alpha ‘bullies’ they were familiar with when growing up.

This characterization is also the basis of the long-clichéd plot of every boy-meets-girl, boy-overcomes-shyness, boy-overcomes-bully-to-get-the-girl story ever told, and not just by Hollywood.

While female written romance stories revolve around multiple suitors for a woman protagonist to tame the most Alpha among them – usually ending with the one who’s a misunderstood asshole to everyone but her – male written romance generally centers on an underperforming Beta male (with a heart of gold) who, through extraordinary circumstance is placed in a position of  outperforming all of his previous rivals for his dream girl, or the girl he ‘should really be with’ instead of the shallow girl he thought would be so great. Instead of selfishly abusing his newfound Alpha powers by kicking sand in the faces of lesser Betas, he fashions himself as the hero exemplar of how Betas should act if they find themselves in a similar empowerment.

The stories of Spider Man, Captain America and even Back to the Future follow these male-romance scripts to the letter, but in every case the Beta-with-a-chance has to teach the bully a lesson before he can qualify for the girl’s attention, much less her intimacy. This clichéd story arch is a manifestation of men’s internalized understanding of their burden of performance. And while I can’t entirely assert this is an intrinsic part of men’s own mental firmware, I have to speculate that the fantasy of fulfilling it is part of men’s ubiquitous need to adequately perform for women’s intimate approval.

Regardless, the objective purpose is still to ‘get the girl’.

Examples of this Alpha bully archetype are part of most men’s formative learning. Not all men learn the lesson of the bully (some play the role with relish), but if we hold to the 80/20 rule of the manosphere we’re statistically looking at around 80% of (Beta) men who do. From grade school to high school to college, that guy, the douchebag, the guy who can’t help but actively or passively draw attention to himself, becomes the AMOG – and damned if he’s not the most contemptible bastard (or type of bastard) you know.

I’m highlighting that guy because more often than not he’s less a real person and more a manifestation of the anxiety that results from men’s insecurity about performing adequately for feminine approval. It’s easy to poke fun at the guys you see on hotchickswithdouchebags.com because they’re representations of the bully you hate. They’re the Jerks that every woman loves and every ‘normal’ guy vainly tries to make women rationally understand are the worst possible romantic option for them.

One very difficult hurdle men have in unplugging is getting past what they believe is the emulation of the Alpha Jerk who so regularly outperformed them, if not bullied them – yet, his asshole ways were still undeniably effective with the women he wanted to get with. Thus, for men who come to Red Pill awareness there’s a natural resistance to become that guy.

This AMOG archetype impression is tough to confront for men, but it’s important they do so.

This impression for men is an incredibly useful tool to effect women’s sexual strategy later in life when the woman (or type of woman) he’s held in such high regard and pined to be intimate with for so long finally “comes to her senses” around her Epiphany Phase and accepts him. For men with this AMOG mental impression, that woman’s acceptance comes with a certain degree of (sometimes smug) vindication. He waited her out and finally she’s “realized” what he’s been trying to make her see for so long – he’s actually the ‘perfect boyfriend’ for her.

He doesn’t realize he’s just playing the convenient ‘savior’-provider role women’s sexual strategy has conditioned and prepared him for, but believing his Beta Nice Guy life track has finally won out over the nefarious AMOG in his head is a strong reinforcer of a belief women need him to strongly believe when it’s time to cash in their Beta Bucks chips and her SMV starts its decline.

And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him.

I’m going to flip your AMOG impression upside down now. That AMOG isn’t the one you should concern yourself with.

Most of the first PUAs always suggested a process of containment and isolating your target woman in order to ‘poach’ her from that guy. I understand the proposed isolation idea is to remove a girl you like from her social group, but the effect is really similar to Mate Guarding – isolate her awareness of all other sexual competitors and focus her on yourself. 

However, unless you’re making your approaches in clubs or loud bars it’s likely the context you’re working on a woman in isn’t one where an active, in-your-face AMOGing is happening. Isolation becomes a security measure to focus her on you being her best immediate prospect.

Roissy once stated that there are groupies for every male endeavor, I should also add that there are AMOGs in every male endeavor. Every group of nerdy programmers, geeks, chess club, your bowling team and even in your Bible study group, there’s an AMOG. Some are more significant than others, but rest assured, you know him, or you will.

Most men will compartmentalize themselves socially so as to best facilitate their chances of meeting, banging, marrying or otherwise interacting with women. This compartmentalization is really a form of Buffering against rejection, but it’s also a logical social positioning of a man putting himself into an environment where he can (hopefully) excel and be noticed for it.

All warfare is based on deception – Bear this in mind when you enter into a new social group dynamic or an unfamiliar social environment. You are an unknown commodity and therefore your strengths are novel to the group. Your weaknesses (your Beta-ness) will be more obvious than your strengths and thus more easily attached to you.

Playing to one’s strengths usually involves defining a man’s social environments. King Douchebag at a Vegas pool party is excelling in his environment, just as Bobby Fisher is at a chess tournament. One reason less ‘socially adept’ men enjoy more confidence at a ComicCon is because the environment buffers their social deficits, but emphasizes their particular talents. The first mistake most men make when considering an AMOG situation is underestimating the importance of that environment. In high school the environment was probably set for you, but as an adult you’ve got a greater degree of control over it.

Bear this in mind when you’re confronted with a guy “all the girls love”. There’s a tendency on the part of Beta leaning guys to think the AMOG is a ‘natural’ Alpha when in fact he’s really domain dependent on the social environment you share with him. Of course there will always be guys who excel in almost any environment because Hypergamy is universal to women and a ‘hawt guy’ is ‘hawt’ to all women, but remove him from his preferred domain to one you’re better adept in, or, outperform him in his domain with a particular strength or expertise you possess in such a way that he’s forced to acknowledge your skill.

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

The caricature of an in-your-face belligerent AMOG is really a social anomaly, and usually your experience of him is the product of an environment you’re not at home in. Far more common however is the AMOG who is unassuming, affable, and honestly a guy you probably can’t help but like. In fact this likability is his primary appeal. Obvious Alpha superiority combined with even a marginal humility makes for an irresistible AMOG to women.

One of my best friends to this day was a guy I despised when we were in high school. We ended up becoming lifelong friends, but initially I hated him for having such a natural Alpha affinity with the girls I wanted to get with. I actually attribute part of my early 20s sexual success (and if I’m honest some proto-Red Pill awareness) to many of the lessons women’s behavior around him taught me.

Both the nervous Beta and the PUA like to encourage the idea of an AMOG as being the drunk, loud-mouthed frat boy who pushes you aside to get to the girl at the bar you’re sarging (“Step aside McFly!”), but the Alpha Male of the Group to really consider is the guy women can’t stop talking about when he’s not even present. He’s the guy who leaves the room and girls giddily huddle together to agree about how ‘hawt’ he is. He doesn’t even have to be in the group to be the Alpha of it.

The best form of social proof is the unsolicited kind. The kind where women can’t help but talk about a guy, and ask his Beta-chump friends how they can get to know him better.

He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.

In the immediate sense, unseating this AMOG would be a challenge only the most exceptional men could hope for. He’s established in his environment and his status and social proof is perpetuated for him within his social group. This situation may seem hopeless, and if your goal is to supplant him you’d have to really consider what the rewards would be in doing so, however there is much to learn from him within your shared environment.

Pose as a friend, act as a spy. Befriending the AMOG may be your best option as it opens you up to his social proof as a peer. You may not replace him in the short term, but if you’re spinning plates as you should, his confirmation of you as a peer will only benefit you. This confirmation will allow you an insight into the dynamics of that social environment. Your ultimate success doesn’t lie in destroying the AMOG, or becoming one yourself, but mastering a shared environment in which your strengths are best applied.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

This tact is useful for both the in-your-face AMOG as well as the non-direct, status affirmed AMOG. Sometimes proving one’s superiority is simply allowing the mediocre enough time and opportunity to self-destruct. The trick of course is in being prepared to swiftly capitalize on that AMOG’s missteps.

Law 33 – Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew
Everyone has a weakness, a gap in the castle wall.  That weakness is usualy an insecurity, an uncontrollable emotion or need; it can also be a small secret pleasure.  Either way, once found, it is a thumbscrew you can turn to your advantage.

In the early part of my career in liquor branding I worked for a very rich man in his mid 60s. This guy had quite the resume of “successes”, but for the greater part they’d come from his self-importance and borrowing money than any real talent of his own. He was the owner, but had a reputation for attention seeking and a love of flattery that bordered on arrogance. Usually this would come at the expense of whomever happened to be outshining him as the master.

He was a consummate AMOG, but with no real legitimacy. At one point we had an important negotiation with a Chinese distributor to get our brands into an Asian market and as he’d typically do he wanted to entertain the reps over dinner after a big trade show we’d met them at. They were impressed with me because I was responsible for the creative side of the company, but even with my own deferential credits to my ‘boss’ he took it as an opportunity to AMOG me in front of his new ‘friends’.

I actually saw this coming (it’d happened on other occasions) and I had a good prior knowledge of the sensibilities of the Chinese from my time in doing casino marketing, so I diplomatically let him hang himself with his self-aggrandizement and bluster at my expense. Predictably the reps were off-put by this and we lost the distribution. The good news was that about a year and a half later I was offered a string of very lucrative branding contracts for several of this Asian company’s holdings (2 of which I still front now) because of this patience and letting my boss implode. And all I did was see it coming and let him convict himself.

Every AMOG has a weakness to exploit. Sometimes discovering this requires a patience most guys simply don’t want to wait around for, but with a bit of tact and attention it doesn’t take long. I think the older a man gets the easier it is to judge the character of others (or it should) – you experience the “types” enough to gauge a predictable character action.

There’s an old, but fantastic breakdown of the classic Boyfriend Destroyer script on RSD Nation. I wont repost it here, but if you take a moment to read the script, the premise is one of breaking down a boyfriend’s reputation by indirectly whittling away at the most predictable areas of contention in most relationships. Emphasize his Beta attributes while leading (not telling) her to consider and appreciate your Alpha attributes.

Yes, it’s bad form, and yes, your efforts would be better applied to new prospective plates to spin instead of working on some girl with a boyfriend. However, it is an excellent study in understanding how to deconstruct an AMOG and learning his thumbscrews.

Amused Mastery isn’t just a technique to hold women’s attention, it’s also an effective tool in defusing an AMOG. Once you have an understanding of that AMOG’s weakness – a penchant for self-aggrandizement, a taste for booze or a kind of woman, lack of legitimate ambition, Beta thinking/behavioral tendencies, etc. – the plan then becomes one of emphasizing those character flaws indirectly by exemplifying counter-strengths to those weaknesses.

Women love a man who Just Gets It, and the best, playful way of expressing that is with Amused Mastery; but it’s even more sexy when that Mastery extends to men who she perceives are your intersexual rivals. This then, by association, compliments her ego for your Amused Mastery of her.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

I’m gonna be a bit harsh here.
A woman like K rose is HB3. She wanted attention at an early age, so what to do, ,she becomes Goth (you know the rest).

And now she’s here enjoying the attention being given to her.
All she/women wants is attention.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Mr T.

Really, honestly just bored.

And 3?! Are you insane? I’m not fat. I might not be your thing, and that’s fine. But 3? Nope, discarding everything you say now.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Mr. T

In my experience, goth chicks are just cluster b histrionic messes 100% of the time. Attention whoring is pretty much a religion among them.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

I’m sorry you’re so butt hurt that I’m taking the attention away from you.

That is not a fucking 3:

http://instagram.com/p/pzigGvhQ6Y/

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

She posting more pics of her below-average-at-best mug trying to convince us she’s hot and not an attention whore.

Oh, the irony.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

Sure, why not? I’m BORED.

And I bet you’re one of those guys who rates supermodels a 5 while balding and having a pot belly.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Jeremy The opening scene of Schindler’s List is a great one. Ahhh, yeah that would definitely be a good example. The guy every guy in the room wants to be and every woman wants to be with. That’s really kinda how I’ve always pictured an alpha guy to be anyway. Belligerent Hollywood-style alphas don’t last past high school really. I had to deal with more than a few back then, but they typically failed once they got out there in the real world. Case in point: my sister’s (now) ex-husband. Was her high school boyfriend, quarterback with a thuggish, bullying,… Read more »

Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

Funny how women commentators comes here with their NORMAL 50% brain capacity only to have it implode later.

Regarding the AMOG,
When women are with betas they buy into the guy who is AMOG but they don’t dare if they were with an Alpha.
Women know exactly what the score is.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Mr T.

I like arguing with people. It’s fun. How is that imploding? You don’t even mean what you said. You just hate me because you feel threatened that people are having a real conversation with me. I don’t get it.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Well, I naturally have red hair, but I can sort of see what you mean. I’m planet without that for sure, fashion is an art for a reason.

This is mean without make up and jewelry:
http://instagram.com/p/wIOy_NhQ-7/

I’m still cute. 3 is someone who’s ugly, so I thought that was insane.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

“You just hate me…”

Typical.

Man refuses to be/play nice, woman accuses him of hating her. Do women not really grasp the concept of hate, or is the default insecurity really that great?

I for one would like to thank Kristine for coming here to provide more anecdotal evidence to prove Redpill theory.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Badpainter

I don’t literally mean “hate”, jeez. He IS acting butt hurt though.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

I’d say 4 without the goth shit at best. I can’t even call her a situational 5. The histrionics would make it impossible for me to tolerate her long enough to find out if the fuck was worth anything. Might take a hummer though. Can’t hear the attitude with a cock in her mouth.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

What happened to all of the smart people? I miss them.

*yawn*

Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

When I rated her HB3 I was being nice.
To tell you the truth, ,,she is HB1, she’s not even a classy Goth, she’s a tacky Goth,i wouldn’t even look at her nude.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Mr T.

Hahaha. Wow. You are making it SO clear that this all stems from bitterness. Which makes no sense, cause I did nothing to you.

I’m gonna go, cause nothing about this is challenging or interesting.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Ah, I see “hate” is just a rhetorical ploy. Why do y’all go straight to hate? Why couldn’t you just stop at butthurt?

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Badpainter

Speaking in hyperbole is kind of a common thing, I assumed everyone knew what I meant.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

“…fashion is an art for a reason.”

Same with camouflage.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@BP

Ah, I see “hate” is just a rhetorical ploy. Why do y’all go straight to hate? Why couldn’t you just stop at butthurt?

You know that evidence of Red Pill theory? It’s gotta be provided somehow. Nice to know my assessment of goths as a bad idea remains firmly intact as well.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

Guys, I’m not even actually upset. I find this amusing. No one else speaks in hyperbole when arguing on the Internet? I’m hardly hysterical for doing that.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago
Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

“I’m gonna go, cause nothing about this is challenging or interesting.”

More hyperbole?

Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

Rollo writes “That’s why BDSM is appealing to feminists. The dominance gets them off because it’s wrong, a taboo they shouldn’t really like because the feminist dogma says it’s disgusting to submit to a man (especially for an “empowered” woman), but the fantasy aspect of it legitimizes the desire and separates the “real” woman from the “sex act” woman”
That’s brilliant. I slept with some feminist women only to hear them screaming (while fuckin) TAKE ME TAKE ME. And another one screaming kill me kill me and to tell you the truth; that one scared me!!.

447
447
6 years ago

“Men are not hardwired for Game. They probably are hardwired for rape and dominance. Once gut level violence is tempered, men want to be the hero, the doer, who is rewarded for his deeds by a woman or women. ” Ok – once a developed country starts to finally apply the untold masses of knowledge about human biology, eugenic selection and maximum technical and social advancement of civilization (e.g. by switfly and effciently eleminating scum alphas, systemic parasites and the constantly rising number of genetic deseases by…well, head-shot) – give me a call. Because part of that but be to… Read more »

447
447
6 years ago

“Rollo writes “That’s why BDSM is appealing to feminists. The dominance gets them off because it’s wrong, a taboo they shouldn’t really like because the feminist dogma says it’s disgusting to submit to a man (especially for an “empowered” woman), but the fantasy aspect of it legitimizes the desire and separates the “real” woman from the “sex act” woman” That’s brilliant. I slept with some feminist women only to hear them screaming (while fuckin) TAKE ME TAKE ME. And another one screaming kill me kill me and to tell you the truth; that one scared me!!.” I strongly agree with… Read more »

jacklabear
6 years ago

It was amusing that Kristine got us to AMOG her BF for her.
I wonder if she is clever enough to have planned that from the beginning.

Kristine Rose
Kristine Rose
6 years ago
Reply to  jacklabear

I was just curious what people’s opinions were. That’s all.

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
6 years ago

Men Create; Women Support or Destroy When you look at history and philosophy, whether East or West, men create, discover, invent, repair, innovate, fix, lead – they represent reason and strength. Patriarchs. Women represent the nurturing and supporting. They’re emotional, passive and receptive. You can also see these things in folk tales. In one sentence you can say men represent the Head and women the Heart. Now what happens when they go bad? Men use their use their strength for evil, or else they become weak. They withdraw. These days, since they’re attempts at discovering and everything else is being… Read more »

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
6 years ago

“The Shit Test Fallacy” I’m actually amused that some men really think shit tests exist. I’ve never been shit tested in my life, and none of my friends have. If a woman likes you, she’s not going to insult you and perhaps drive you away. I’d had women insult me. None of them were attractive and some of them were grotesque. They were all hostile and had some pretty significant issues. As I’ve mentioned before, believing in shit tests is a way for losers to pretend they’re “alphas.” If they see shit tests everywhere, it’s just a way to raise… Read more »

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
6 years ago

The “Red Pill” Has Been Around For A Long Time Taking the Red Pill is just a metaphor, and the idea of taking it and suddenly you see the truth isn’t the way it works. Sometimes, people don’t take the Red Pill at all; they just exchange one Matrix for another. For example, thinking that women are soulless loveless hypergamous sluts (that is, destroyers), and that Alpha/Beta/Whatever really does exist (grandiose false self, devalued false self). That’s exchanging one Matrix for another, the latter being in some ways better and some ways worse. Actually, all of us are in the… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Manpersonnumber6762

“So what I do is reach into my PUA bag of tricks and start doing cocky-funny, teasing or whatever. As a result she starts giving me a hard time (shit test), but not because she’s becoming attracted, but because I’m acting weird and she’s reacting negatively to that. But I just figure she’s becoming attracted, so I keep at it. Eventually she just walks away.”

Lol? Have you ever even done an approach? Most basic PUA tools such as IOI’s can be used here to gauge attractiveness.

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Manpersonnumber6762

Thinking shit tests do not exist is blue pill beta thinking, believing that there are different types of women out there, nice and sweet ones (never shit test you) and messed up bad ones (always shit testing) lol… You have a lot of RP reading to do.

Jeremy
6 years ago

I’m going to be the asshole.

In one of those pictures that Kristine posted, my first thought was that she was a tranny. The way the photo made her jaw structure look, it seemed a dead giveaway at first glance.

Honestly, I doubt I would even approach her, and I don’t practice game in the field.

Nathan
Nathan
6 years ago

Lord women are sick. The whole society is in need of an exorcism.

Let’s go back to sanity and goodness loving our neighbor and truth.

Our “king” obama is not a healthy king.

We need a.good leader and a collective repentance.

some old testament grinding the money good into dust and drinking it.

ashes and sackcloth to MAYBE turn this insanity around

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
6 years ago

It’s Men Who Shit Test Women, Not The Other Way Around I’ve pointed out before that one of the more egregious delusions in the Manosphere is that shit tests exist. They don’t. If any shit tests do exist, it’s men shit testing women, go see if they can pass the I’m Not a Narcissistic Psycho Bitch test. That’s why sites such as “A Shrink for Men” (over there on my blog roll on your right side) exist. This article is from the site No Ma’am and is titled, “When Men’s Trust is Gone.” “No fault divorce, paternity fraud, false allegations,… Read more »

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
6 years ago

“Shit Tests” Don’t Exist and Instead Are About Women Hating Men Because There Are No Men in Their Lives “Like a gold ring in a swine’s snout/is a beautiful woman without discretion.” – (Proverbs 11:22) “I’ve seen technically ‘hot’ women who, because of the hostility and dissatisfaction that emanates from them, have very little, if any, sex appeal.” – Bright Darkness I’ve written about this before. My last year-and-a-half in college I lived in a studio apartment attached to a house with 12 girls in it. It was an eye-opener dealing with the women. Two of the girls were friendly… Read more »

ManPersonNumber6762
ManPersonNumber6762
6 years ago

“The Shit Test Fallacy” I’m actually amused that some men really think shit tests exist. I’ve never been shit tested in my life, and none of my friends have. If a woman likes you, she’s not going to insult you and perhaps drive you away. I’d had women insult me. None of them were attractive and some of them were grotesque. They were all hostile and had some pretty significant issues. As I’ve mentioned before, believing in shit tests is a way for losers to pretend they’re “alphas.” If they see shit tests everywhere, it’s just a way to raise… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
6 years ago

* money (false) god.
Edited

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Manpersonnumber6762

lol at this guy just copy/paste spamming from another source…

Jeremy
6 years ago

@ManPersonNumber6762

So women don’t shit test, well obviously if you say so, and have anecdotes to prove your point, you must be right. How silly of me. I guess I’ll just go “be myself” and demonstrate emotional harm whenever a woman treats me badly. That way she’ll know she hurt me and recognize that she has to treat me right to get me. Yeah, that must be it. How wrong I was…

jacklabear
6 years ago

I noticed that after I dismissed Kristine as a silly girl, others stepped up to take her by the hand and tutor her in RP. I think WKing, one-itis and things like that are part of men’s mating instincts, no doubt bred into us by the women through sexual selection since those behaviors serve the FI. The implication is that those behaviors are in fact viscerally appealing to women’s mating instincts. I suspect that the harsh condemnation of Kristine’s appearance is an abreaction on the part of some men who felt an embarssment about their impulse to take Kristine by… Read more »

Jeremy
6 years ago

That’s not true for me Jack. I’d have had the same conversation with her if I were standing right next to her. The display of her sexuality I’d prefer got rejected outright, because it’s totally irrelevant attention whoring…. But if she’s going to simply repeat wrongheaded female interpretation of things, I’ll call her out on it regardless. That is not to say you’re entirely wrong about the mating instincts.

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Re: harsh condemnation

Only because we have been conditioned to avoid telling the truth and expressing our true opinions. The truth hurts only because people insist on believing the lies.

I did find Kristine’s reaction to being rated a 3 interesting. I wonder what she rates herself? This could help us gage SMV price dysfunction anecdotally.

jacklabear
6 years ago

Keep in mind that I am an old man and most young women have some attractive features here and there. I consider her to be a butterface.

jacklabear
6 years ago

Jeremy

February 5th, 2015 at 11:49 am

… The display of her sexuality I’d prefer got rejected outright, because it’s totally irrelevant attention whoring…. ”

You may recall that when she posted a pic right after I said “come back when you have something to offer us”, my response was to tell her that I dumped a 9 that I had full access to because her personality was unacceptable. IOW, I outrightly rejected her sexuality.

gregg
gregg
6 years ago

If I could give one single advice to young men…it would be – do not let women mess with your goals, security and future…..build yourself! Mind your own business first, women later. I knew many amog´s. Many of them are broken, with couple of illegitimate kids, others are married to former top chicks, obeying every command of theirs cos they…do not make enough money, do not have their own security and background. The succesful “amogs”, without exception, share one key trait. They were with women under their own rules, they did not have the need to “prove” themselves if it… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Jeremy

In one of those pictures that Kristine posted, my first thought was that she was a tranny. The way the photo made her jaw structure look, it seemed a dead giveaway at first glance.

I didn’t think “tranny”. I thought “Hapsburg jaw from inbreeding”.

http://i.imgur.com/w2padM3.gif

jacklabear
6 years ago

Rollo, I very much appreciate your patience and willingness to make efforts to educate your readership. For some reason my browser won’t go to the comment you linked to. but I read and understood all your comments as well as the RSD article. I will address your response to me by pointing to two levels of what I was writing. The surface level, and a meta level. On the surface, by AMOGing Kristine’s BF I just meant that me and others told her that he wasn’t good enough for her. I was also pointing out as I have in the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@bp I did find Kristine’s reaction to being rated a 3 interesting. I wonder what she rates herself? This could help us gage SMV price dysfunction anecdotally. Notice that all of her pictures were already posted on her designated social media attention whoring account. She’s used to having a constellation of orbiters and “YOUGOGRRRRL!” friends oooohing and clicking “Like” on every picture she posts. This is the SMV inflation we talk about in social media in action, particularly among Millennials. She’s an HB~4ish tops with the bitch shields of a 7-8. That’s exactly what it looks like. She posts pics… Read more »

Jeremy
6 years ago

@Kristine Rose That is not a fucking 3: Kristine, I’m going to nuke you here. It’s healthy if you accept it as brutal male truth. I just now enabled enough javascript in my browser to see that particular picture you said “is not a fucking 3″… That’s one of the pictures that made me suspect you were a tranny. Those pictures are not in any way flattering to you. They were being absolutely truthful and honest in calling those a “3” when they did so. So yeah, you may not *be* a “3”, there might be different looks you could… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

@Sun Wukong

“This is exactly what the modern problem of self-perceived SMV inflation looks like.”

Pretty much, hell I wouldn’t even touch her with Rollo’s d1k lol.

Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

In a country where it’s being ruled by a dictator, you find his photo on every wall, a photo showing him swimming, a photo showing him shooting a bear, a new photo of him everyday. The more photos you find the more you know he’s forcing people to love him.
I guess that was the early from of Facebook.

The epidemic of photo whorring is getting out of control, do be surprised if Facebook develop a section for monkeys and baboons.

Ps
The older you get the more unattractive women seem attractive.

Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

@jeremy
Be careful, you don’t want the poor girl to commit suicide or suing Rollo for enabling online bullying!.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

This is a very self-absorbed young lady.

Understatement of the year, Rollo. Or are you just being nice? You big softie. nudge nudge

gregg
gregg
6 years ago

@yareally I do not have a problem with PUA-as, MGTOWs, or any other “group”. I have a “problem” or in better words “do not respect” men living in lies, men who pursue the goals of others instead of theirs of their own, men who lost “manliness” and a thirst for truth, clarity and freedom and became slaves – to their dicks, FI, roles that society assign them, anything. I do not respect men who became…women. I do not respect men who lost the “man” within..producing illegitimate children with a couple of women, fucking married women and generally I do have… Read more »

Mr T.
Mr T.
6 years ago

@Rollo,
It’s insane how people are wiping out their privacy.
Back in the old days people use to fight to keep their lives private, now look at them giving it all up for free. I wonder how would they feel of themselves 20 years later? It’s truly shocking.

jacklabear
6 years ago

“Ps The older you get the more unattractive women seem attractive.” Yeah, that’s what I was saying. It’s a benefit to me because it opens up my sample space to include the demo of working class, non-university indoctrinated, semi rural Christian valued women who are comfortable with their femininity, appreciate my masculinity and at least make some efforts at suppressing their hypergamy. The bottom line to me is if they pass the boner test, and there’s more to that than a pretty face now. The flip side is that some women who used to seem attractive to me no longer… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

@jack
I was being sarcastic .
its time to visit the Ophthalmologist.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

all the links I posted were simply from her self absorbed twitter:

https://www.twitter.com/prtoftheprob

I didn’t include links to articles such as “advice on how to use makeup to trick employers into hiring you”

I didn’t waste my time trying to learning anything more, such as who her ex-BF is (sorry, my bad, current BF), or if xojane will have an article on the evil RP guys, such as me being a creepy stalker

On SMV inflation my guess is +3

jacklabear
6 years ago

“its time to visit the Ophthalmologist.”

That’s what my GF keeps telling me.

Maybe I got hypnotized by Tony Robbins.
Even so, it didn’t help with my perception of Kristine.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@gregg

Delicious purple pill you’ve got there.

@redlight

I’m gonna have to call +5-+6. I give her credit for keeping her weight down (which potentially puts her at HB4 with her base looks), but I ding her for the goth look which puts her at no higher than a current HB3. Looks like shit. She’s acting with HB7-8 bitch shields though.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

Agreed. Out of curiosity, with your upbringing has your daughter displayed any of these tendencies of “Post Pix, Receive Validation”? Or does having a family like yours actually tend to counteract this toxic aspect of culture so far as you can tell?

jacklabear
6 years ago

Dr. J, My father was a psychiatrist. When I was under his influence age 18-20, if he thought I was out of whack, he would ask me to ‘examine myself’. Sometimes he was right, and I actually consider examining myself to be a good habit. I appreciate you heads up about purplism. I find a lot of your posts educational. I’m a hard core INTP and I liked some exploration of that I believe you have brought up. So no disrespect, but while I have my iconoclast hat on, I’m going to put this out there: “This is the SMV… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

“she will not age well”

I wanted to say that last night but I couldnt . I really felt sorry for her
this is the results of the FI .

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@jacklabear You can’t acknowledge the SMV inflation but deny the lockout. The SMV inflation causes the lockout for the most part. Men tend to calibrate their SMV accurately, but are willing to dip a bit below it to satisfy their sexual needs. So let’s say a guy is an HG5. He’s your average dude. He’s aware he’s your average dude. He’d like to have an HB5+ doesn’t want to fuck less than an HB4 when push comes to shove. Now let’s say you have an HB4 like our example from earlier in this thread, and she thinks she’s hot shit.… Read more »

ianironwood
6 years ago

@Kristine Rose You seem like a nice girl (and I’d give you an automatic +1 to your relative HB#, due to my nose fetish – righteous!) and I’m going to give you some advice: Nail your boyfriend down now, before he wakes up. Seriously, while I usually counsel men to pursue their interests, the fact of the matter is, if you’re happy enough with him at your age, nail him the fuck down. If your reproductive goals include children (and at your age, you should have made that decision long ago) then start that plan. Why? Because your chances of… Read more »

Jeremy
6 years ago

@Mr T.

Be careful, you don’t want the poor girl to commit suicide or suing Rollo for enabling online bullying!

… do we want to have this discussion in a serious way? I don’t. However, real-life events give me a non-zero level of concern.

SFC Ton
6 years ago

I think that a lot of men’s competition anxiety focuses on a very overdramatized caricature of the Alpha ‘bullies’ they were familiar with when growing up…. Rollo

everything in the SMP is a proxy for violence and beta-tude is a fear of casual social violence; even when said beta is not afraid to engage in socially acceptable or legally sanctioned violence. Which is odd as fuck to me

jacklabear
6 years ago

Sun Wukong, I’m clear on the theory. ” He is effectively locked out from sex with an HB4″ So what? Those hyperinflated bubble head 4s like KR aren’t even in the market as far as I’m concerned. I’m not seeing the lockout. 11 years ago I was so blue that they were practically calling ambulances for emergency surgery for my heart defect ha. Nevertheless, a married woman HB enough to be turning the heads of 20yo men made a point of flagging me down and nicely seducing me, eventually divorcing her husband to move in with me. Unfortunately I was… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@jacklabear For further evidence of how this effect works, I direct you to http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/ Start with the section labeled “Male appraisals of female attractiveness”. Men give a more-or-less fair (demonstrated by a pretty normal distribution curve) assessment of female attractiveness. Now, skip down to “Female Messaging & Male Attractiveness”. There’s two things to note here. 1) Female assessment of male attractiveness is not shown as a separate graph, because they don’t want to emphasize how shitty women are towards men. 2) The women are a normal distribution of attractiveness, but the men are not. How could that be the case?… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

Those hyperinflated bubble head 4s like KR aren’t even in the market as far as I’m concerned. Agreed, and I am ignoring them too because I don’t find them attractive but it misses the point: this effect scales all the way up. SMV inflation affects all women, which means it just gets worse as you go up in actual SMV. In my experience personally, it’s really hard for me (I assess myself as probably HG6-7 overall) to land higher than an HB4-5 consistently. Now granted, part of that is that I need to work on my Game. I don’t deny… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

Yeah, it’s a herd mentality intended to make sure all of them can be lazy. Don’t you dare reject it or the shame will be rolled out.

jacklabear
6 years ago

Sun W, I appreciate your efforts to helping me learn. I actually did read that post when it came out and understood it. Maybe that site has a lot of (ok)cupid stunts. So just avoid them. For whatever reason, this lockout phenomenon doesn’t seem to be applying to myself, my son, and most men I see around me. Yes, the fat rate is >65%. That means 35% are not fat. Yes, the competition is higher, but, the black guys take care of the fat bleach blonds. The incels are not visible to me. I guess the conclusion must be that… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

Honestly it feels like facing the burden of performance with moving goalposts. I’m willing to work for something every day for the rest of my life, but if inflation consistently pushes the performance requirements up the work starts to feel like futility as it absorbs more and more of my energy and time for less and less benefit.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@jacklabear

The thing is okcupid is working with a huge dataset (on the order of millions), so their information can actually be considered pretty statistically valid for the population at large. In my experience it has been valid. Yes, it’s a good idea to ignore chicks from dating sites, but to pretend that the women you don’t meet through those sites are utterly unaffected by the same dynamics is incredibly naive.

jacklabear
6 years ago

SW, Yup, you’re right. I might be less affected because I’m an older generation with a different target demographic. ” I’m experiencing it every time I step in the dating pool.” I don’t actually consider myself to be in a dating pool. I seem to be good at ‘LTR’ game. That is, my now not insignificant AF vibes combined with my BP comfort/security hue seems to draw long term currently or formerly married women. Perhaps I’m exploiting a niche market. I observed years ago that ‘married women are easy – they don’t have an agenda to land a man, they… Read more »

jacklabear
6 years ago

The actual lockout issue looks to me not that it’s causing an incel epidemic, but rather lowering the quality of women that average men can get. I understand the consternation with that.
I do agree that the quality of modern young women is circling the drain faster and faster.

As I said, I’m glad I’m on my way out, and meanwhile, a demographic of women, many of whom are of acceptable quality to me, is available to me.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

Is it safe to come out of the bathroom now? Has that stupid kid stopped touting for “business” round here? Stone me, “I’m a little bit this and I can do a bit of that, mah BF needs to Man the Fuck UP!, and you-all need to Man the Fuck UP!, p.s. I don’t mind a bit of wankyspanky uh-huh, btw here’s m’picture ..” I’m no Gary Glitter. Fuck off back to school or get a job, pet, that’s my advo. Fuckin hell. 243 elaborately-posed close-up selfies, and not the glimmer of a smile among the lot. Is that the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Tam

“I’m goth.” is nature’s way of saying “You don’t want to deal with my issues. Trust me.”

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@jacklabear Well, let’s be honest here: if a dude’s incel it’s because he just won’t lower his standards enough. It’s different from a chick only in that women won’t go lower than their self-assessed SMV. Hypergamy. Men won’t go lower than the fuck floor they choose below their own SMV. Incel men are like incel women in that they won’t lower their standards and/or increase their Game enough. Guys have to go far far lower than women do though. Unless a dude is just incredibly repulsive, he’s got options. He just doesn’t want them and probably can’t get a boner… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
6 years ago

Goth – the sanctimonious outward expression of the psychic suffering endured by young privileged white folks due to an over abundance of self righteousness and ennui.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago
jacklabear
6 years ago

I understand where you’re coming from.
We’re all prisoners of our own device.

Jeremy
6 years ago

@Tam

Oldie but a goodie…

Jeremy
6 years ago
therhoubbhe
therhoubbhe
6 years ago

Sun Wukong, I see your point, you are dealing with SMV inflation. The Feminine Imperative is somewhat using Supply-Side economics; the government enforces polices to protect their value; like we did for the banks and companies too big to fail. Women have a supply and men have a demand for sex.The goal of the Feminine Imperative is preserve the value of the supply, not to meet all the demand of men. The demand is hight but the supply is now devalued; the Wal-Martification of western women. The messaging of Feminine Imperative makes all Di$ney Princesses think they are 8’s even… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@therhoubbhe

You are ‘paying’ for 8’s with your effort, money and time; but in reality you are getting the quality of a 4 or 5.

Essentially this is what any guy younger than the Baby Boomer demographic is contending with, yes. Doubly so for anyone working the 18-25 year old female market where this kind of hypervalidation is rampant.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

The 3 minute mark here might give you guys a giggle.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

lol this is why we didn’t let women participate in the old PUA community days. 10 pages of hamster rationalization while men try to logically convince her of shit while she moves goalposts around based on her in-the-moment feels and if anyone disagrees with her feels too much they’re “mean” and out comes the “you probably can’t get laid and think supermodels all have pointy elbows” stuff because you’re clashing with her real-world experience of guys who want to fuck her telling her she’s a 10. It’s all just such a waste of energy because she’s not going to learn… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@ManPersonNumber6762 Not going to address the article because it’s flawed from the premise: “If you act normal and a girl wants to get with you, she will never ‘shit test’ you.” Right…and if you just act normal your child will magically behave and never push to see what your boundaries are. Tell it to the guys in /r/relationships/ and /r/deadbedrooms/, Robin Williams and any normal cool guy who’s being divorced or any dad with out of control kids etc. Whoever wrote this article is basing his entire argument around something that is blatantly wrong to anyone who looks at the… Read more »

jacklabear
6 years ago

CBT is the only kind of psychotherapy that has been objectively shown to work. One of the most important things it teaches is not to shoot yourself in the foot by telling yourself irrational things. “You are ‘paying’ for 8’s with your effort, money and time; but in reality you are getting the quality of a 4 or 5.” Who you calling ‘you’? When the married HB flagged me down, seduced me nicely, divorced her husband and moved in with me, I had no game to speak of. It cost very little, in fact she took me out to lunch… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

TRP isn’t about “who can make the most convincing argument”. It’s about what aligns with mass experience of hundreds of thousands of men. Motherfucking this. All these whiners and bro-knights coming in complaining about AMOGing and poaching need to realize one thing: I wish YaReally and Rollo were fucking wrong. Period. I wish both of them could just be written off as callous assholes without a clue. But they aren’t. They’ve managed to ignore how the world was described to them and instead see it for how it actually is through actual experience. I know because I had experienced everything… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

I think Goth K rose is going out tonite to get a gangbang just to prove to herself she is an 8 and guys really loves her.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

Word dumpin all over this place, I ain’t gettin fuck ALL done for work tonight lol: @gregg “I have a “problem” or in better words “do not respect” men living in lies, men who pursue the goals of others instead of theirs of their own, men who lost “manliness” and a thirst for truth, clarity and freedom and became slaves – to their dicks, FI, roles that society assign them, anything.” I agree. Every man should choose his own goals. That’s why I’m supportive of friends who enter relationships, as long as they’re aware of the dynamics and potential downsides… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
6 years ago

Jezza, That reminds me. The squat was off to the right, after about 22s. I think. Although it’s all changed now. Turn right at the “George Canning”.

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@too lazy to scroll up to see who wrote this sorry lol @Rollo “Agreed. Out of curiosity, with your upbringing has your daughter displayed any of these tendencies of “Post Pix, Receive Validation”? Or does having a family like yours actually tend to counteract this toxic aspect of culture so far as you can tell?” Obviously Rollo you should protect your family’s privacy and all that, it goes without saying…but down the road when your girl has made it through her early 20s, please give serious consideration to, even totally anonymously, writing a book or something on raising a daughter… Read more »

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

I just looked at the link for K rose !
last nite i told her 98% of her relationship is on its last leg . I was wrong ! it was doomed from the start , it shocks me how blind her boy friend is , he fails to see the real her , with all the photos and he cant see ?!
I know some men can be a bit blind but THAT blind ?

in Zorba the greek there is a line that says;

on a deaf man`s door you`re gonna knock forever.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Rollo

Good Christ! She’s got 2 vanity accounts on instagram?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Just sayin’.

therhoubbhe
therhoubbhe
6 years ago

@jacklabear

I was simply commenting on Sun’s general experience that he is encountering the lowering of quality of women. There are societal and governmental forces affecting the SMV of women; but as Sun says, all you can do is up your game really.

Mr T
Mr T
6 years ago

@Sun,
i wonder what other personality disorders she has ?

jacklabear
6 years ago

I understand all that.

What I was calling bullshit on is this image of hordes of incels.

All I got back addressing that is that the quality/effort ratio has deteriorated, and in response some men are going *voluntarily* celibate.

Can anyone do better than that?

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

re: incel The only women I’ve been with were a 2, a 2, and a 3-4. And I had to work my ass off to get anything going with them at all, and I’m still a virgin. Timeline went like this: Puberty — 9 years incel (absolutely NOTHING) — blowjob in a hotel room from a morbidly obese girl (~300lbs) — 1 year incel — 5 days fooling around with the same girl — 4 years incel — hookup with 43 year old 3-4, ended up getting cockblocked at the end, all we did was make out and I fingered… Read more »

jacklabear
6 years ago

Hi Softek, I enjoy hearing you grow and make progress. Your case of incel is atypical because it is driven by a bad case of PTSD. Reading you above, I’m reminded of me asking you if it is fear stopping you. I believe you responded, but it was the beginning of the weekend, I did other things as usual while not at work, and lost track of the thread. Sorry about that. Which post was it on? I have noticed lately that you are adressing the issue of fear and this is good tho it still seems to be blocking… Read more »

Jeremy
6 years ago

@jacklabear What I was calling bullshit on is this image of hordes of incels. I presume by this you’re looking for something resembling a solid example demonstrating significant portions of men as being involuntarily celibate. Unfortunately, short of lie-detector tests on all men, that’s nigh unprovable. First you’d have to agree on a definition of incel, 3 months without? 6? 12? multiple years? decades? What about situations where guys are in a relationship but sex is being withheld as a weapon for significant periods, shouldn’t that count? Lots of grey area can be found just in the definition of failure… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

Ian Ironwood’s comment was right on the money. She better lock down that guy quick. Enough linkage was there to see the guy was halfway decent and SMV +2 above her and well skilled at hitting ?Strip joints (guess he has appreciation for female forms). If she can’t see the logic of Ironwoods advice (which she won’t), then good luck. The whole drive by event of Kristine Rose was certainly entertaining. And served as a momentary flash of validating The Rational Male precepts. Well done Rollo. What was with that weirdo poster above (also too lazy to look above) who… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

@Mr T

If you had the time to waste and not get back (I wasted 7 minutes of my valuable time) you would have linked to her XOjane articles describing her bulimia and depression and how she got over the fact that she affiliated with her friend that felt that being too attractive in her own right was not a big problem and could deal with it. And then the Goth thing, attention whore, Etc.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

@Kristine Rose “February 5th, 2015 at 3:47 am I was just curious what people’s opinions were. That’s all.” Kristine, that is NOT all and it is obvious. My opinion, you are a horny desperate little thing. I don’t mean this negatively. You are posting your pictures here and writing back and forth with all these guys because you are looking for a lot more than your BF has to offer. You want HIM to let go and let if fly sexually, this would facilitate your letting go, but he is too timid for whatever reason. If you are looking to… Read more »

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