The Art of AMOG

If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.

One of the more contentious aspects of intersexual competition the early PUAs hit upon was the phenomenon of the AMOG – Alpha Male Of Group – and how ‘that guy’s’ apparent social dominance focused all interaction within a peer group on himself. The AMOG was an easy parody of a guy to hate on for early Game practitioners because his archetype was so relatable for men looking to improve their chances with women they’d never been able to consider before they discovered Game. The nefarious AMOG was their worst cock-blocking villain.

For a recovering Beta experimenting with Game for the first time it was bad enough that the very real, in-his-face proposition of rejection by women was always to be considered, but to have to account for a guy that looked (in his mind) like the typical jock who regularly out-Alpha’d him back in high school seems like an unfair obstacle to need to overcome. I think that a lot of men’s competition anxiety focuses on a very overdramatized caricature of the Alpha ‘bullies’ they were familiar with when growing up.

This characterization is also the basis of the long-clichéd plot of every boy-meets-girl, boy-overcomes-shyness, boy-overcomes-bully-to-get-the-girl story ever told, and not just by Hollywood.

While female written romance stories revolve around multiple suitors for a woman protagonist to tame the most Alpha among them – usually ending with the one who’s a misunderstood asshole to everyone but her – male written romance generally centers on an underperforming Beta male (with a heart of gold) who, through extraordinary circumstance is placed in a position of  outperforming all of his previous rivals for his dream girl, or the girl he ‘should really be with’ instead of the shallow girl he thought would be so great. Instead of selfishly abusing his newfound Alpha powers by kicking sand in the faces of lesser Betas, he fashions himself as the hero exemplar of how Betas should act if they find themselves in a similar empowerment.

The stories of Spider Man, Captain America and even Back to the Future follow these male-romance scripts to the letter, but in every case the Beta-with-a-chance has to teach the bully a lesson before he can qualify for the girl’s attention, much less her intimacy. This clichéd story arch is a manifestation of men’s internalized understanding of their burden of performance. And while I can’t entirely assert this is an intrinsic part of men’s own mental firmware, I have to speculate that the fantasy of fulfilling it is part of men’s ubiquitous need to adequately perform for women’s intimate approval.

Regardless, the objective purpose is still to ‘get the girl’.

Examples of this Alpha bully archetype are part of most men’s formative learning. Not all men learn the lesson of the bully (some play the role with relish), but if we hold to the 80/20 rule of the manosphere we’re statistically looking at around 80% of (Beta) men who do. From grade school to high school to college, that guy, the douchebag, the guy who can’t help but actively or passively draw attention to himself, becomes the AMOG – and damned if he’s not the most contemptible bastard (or type of bastard) you know.

I’m highlighting that guy because more often than not he’s less a real person and more a manifestation of the anxiety that results from men’s insecurity about performing adequately for feminine approval. It’s easy to poke fun at the guys you see on hotchickswithdouchebags.com because they’re representations of the bully you hate. They’re the Jerks that every woman loves and every ‘normal’ guy vainly tries to make women rationally understand are the worst possible romantic option for them.

One very difficult hurdle men have in unplugging is getting past what they believe is the emulation of the Alpha Jerk who so regularly outperformed them, if not bullied them – yet, his asshole ways were still undeniably effective with the women he wanted to get with. Thus, for men who come to Red Pill awareness there’s a natural resistance to become that guy.

This AMOG archetype impression is tough to confront for men, but it’s important they do so.

This impression for men is an incredibly useful tool to effect women’s sexual strategy later in life when the woman (or type of woman) he’s held in such high regard and pined to be intimate with for so long finally “comes to her senses” around her Epiphany Phase and accepts him. For men with this AMOG mental impression, that woman’s acceptance comes with a certain degree of (sometimes smug) vindication. He waited her out and finally she’s “realized” what he’s been trying to make her see for so long – he’s actually the ‘perfect boyfriend’ for her.

He doesn’t realize he’s just playing the convenient ‘savior’-provider role women’s sexual strategy has conditioned and prepared him for, but believing his Beta Nice Guy life track has finally won out over the nefarious AMOG in his head is a strong reinforcer of a belief women need him to strongly believe when it’s time to cash in their Beta Bucks chips and her SMV starts its decline.

And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him.

I’m going to flip your AMOG impression upside down now. That AMOG isn’t the one you should concern yourself with.

Most of the first PUAs always suggested a process of containment and isolating your target woman in order to ‘poach’ her from that guy. I understand the proposed isolation idea is to remove a girl you like from her social group, but the effect is really similar to Mate Guarding – isolate her awareness of all other sexual competitors and focus her on yourself. 

However, unless you’re making your approaches in clubs or loud bars it’s likely the context you’re working on a woman in isn’t one where an active, in-your-face AMOGing is happening. Isolation becomes a security measure to focus her on you being her best immediate prospect.

Roissy once stated that there are groupies for every male endeavor, I should also add that there are AMOGs in every male endeavor. Every group of nerdy programmers, geeks, chess club, your bowling team and even in your Bible study group, there’s an AMOG. Some are more significant than others, but rest assured, you know him, or you will.

Most men will compartmentalize themselves socially so as to best facilitate their chances of meeting, banging, marrying or otherwise interacting with women. This compartmentalization is really a form of Buffering against rejection, but it’s also a logical social positioning of a man putting himself into an environment where he can (hopefully) excel and be noticed for it.

All warfare is based on deception – Bear this in mind when you enter into a new social group dynamic or an unfamiliar social environment. You are an unknown commodity and therefore your strengths are novel to the group. Your weaknesses (your Beta-ness) will be more obvious than your strengths and thus more easily attached to you.

Playing to one’s strengths usually involves defining a man’s social environments. King Douchebag at a Vegas pool party is excelling in his environment, just as Bobby Fisher is at a chess tournament. One reason less ‘socially adept’ men enjoy more confidence at a ComicCon is because the environment buffers their social deficits, but emphasizes their particular talents. The first mistake most men make when considering an AMOG situation is underestimating the importance of that environment. In high school the environment was probably set for you, but as an adult you’ve got a greater degree of control over it.

Bear this in mind when you’re confronted with a guy “all the girls love”. There’s a tendency on the part of Beta leaning guys to think the AMOG is a ‘natural’ Alpha when in fact he’s really domain dependent on the social environment you share with him. Of course there will always be guys who excel in almost any environment because Hypergamy is universal to women and a ‘hawt guy’ is ‘hawt’ to all women, but remove him from his preferred domain to one you’re better adept in, or, outperform him in his domain with a particular strength or expertise you possess in such a way that he’s forced to acknowledge your skill.

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

The caricature of an in-your-face belligerent AMOG is really a social anomaly, and usually your experience of him is the product of an environment you’re not at home in. Far more common however is the AMOG who is unassuming, affable, and honestly a guy you probably can’t help but like. In fact this likability is his primary appeal. Obvious Alpha superiority combined with even a marginal humility makes for an irresistible AMOG to women.

One of my best friends to this day was a guy I despised when we were in high school. We ended up becoming lifelong friends, but initially I hated him for having such a natural Alpha affinity with the girls I wanted to get with. I actually attribute part of my early 20s sexual success (and if I’m honest some proto-Red Pill awareness) to many of the lessons women’s behavior around him taught me.

Both the nervous Beta and the PUA like to encourage the idea of an AMOG as being the drunk, loud-mouthed frat boy who pushes you aside to get to the girl at the bar you’re sarging (“Step aside McFly!”), but the Alpha Male of the Group to really consider is the guy women can’t stop talking about when he’s not even present. He’s the guy who leaves the room and girls giddily huddle together to agree about how ‘hawt’ he is. He doesn’t even have to be in the group to be the Alpha of it.

The best form of social proof is the unsolicited kind. The kind where women can’t help but talk about a guy, and ask his Beta-chump friends how they can get to know him better.

He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.

In the immediate sense, unseating this AMOG would be a challenge only the most exceptional men could hope for. He’s established in his environment and his status and social proof is perpetuated for him within his social group. This situation may seem hopeless, and if your goal is to supplant him you’d have to really consider what the rewards would be in doing so, however there is much to learn from him within your shared environment.

Pose as a friend, act as a spy. Befriending the AMOG may be your best option as it opens you up to his social proof as a peer. You may not replace him in the short term, but if you’re spinning plates as you should, his confirmation of you as a peer will only benefit you. This confirmation will allow you an insight into the dynamics of that social environment. Your ultimate success doesn’t lie in destroying the AMOG, or becoming one yourself, but mastering a shared environment in which your strengths are best applied.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

This tact is useful for both the in-your-face AMOG as well as the non-direct, status affirmed AMOG. Sometimes proving one’s superiority is simply allowing the mediocre enough time and opportunity to self-destruct. The trick of course is in being prepared to swiftly capitalize on that AMOG’s missteps.

Law 33 – Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew
Everyone has a weakness, a gap in the castle wall.  That weakness is usualy an insecurity, an uncontrollable emotion or need; it can also be a small secret pleasure.  Either way, once found, it is a thumbscrew you can turn to your advantage.

In the early part of my career in liquor branding I worked for a very rich man in his mid 60s. This guy had quite the resume of “successes”, but for the greater part they’d come from his self-importance and borrowing money than any real talent of his own. He was the owner, but had a reputation for attention seeking and a love of flattery that bordered on arrogance. Usually this would come at the expense of whomever happened to be outshining him as the master.

He was a consummate AMOG, but with no real legitimacy. At one point we had an important negotiation with a Chinese distributor to get our brands into an Asian market and as he’d typically do he wanted to entertain the reps over dinner after a big trade show we’d met them at. They were impressed with me because I was responsible for the creative side of the company, but even with my own deferential credits to my ‘boss’ he took it as an opportunity to AMOG me in front of his new ‘friends’.

I actually saw this coming (it’d happened on other occasions) and I had a good prior knowledge of the sensibilities of the Chinese from my time in doing casino marketing, so I diplomatically let him hang himself with his self-aggrandizement and bluster at my expense. Predictably the reps were off-put by this and we lost the distribution. The good news was that about a year and a half later I was offered a string of very lucrative branding contracts for several of this Asian company’s holdings (2 of which I still front now) because of this patience and letting my boss implode. And all I did was see it coming and let him convict himself.

Every AMOG has a weakness to exploit. Sometimes discovering this requires a patience most guys simply don’t want to wait around for, but with a bit of tact and attention it doesn’t take long. I think the older a man gets the easier it is to judge the character of others (or it should) – you experience the “types” enough to gauge a predictable character action.

There’s an old, but fantastic breakdown of the classic Boyfriend Destroyer script on RSD Nation. I wont repost it here, but if you take a moment to read the script, the premise is one of breaking down a boyfriend’s reputation by indirectly whittling away at the most predictable areas of contention in most relationships. Emphasize his Beta attributes while leading (not telling) her to consider and appreciate your Alpha attributes.

Yes, it’s bad form, and yes, your efforts would be better applied to new prospective plates to spin instead of working on some girl with a boyfriend. However, it is an excellent study in understanding how to deconstruct an AMOG and learning his thumbscrews.

Amused Mastery isn’t just a technique to hold women’s attention, it’s also an effective tool in defusing an AMOG. Once you have an understanding of that AMOG’s weakness – a penchant for self-aggrandizement, a taste for booze or a kind of woman, lack of legitimate ambition, Beta thinking/behavioral tendencies, etc. – the plan then becomes one of emphasizing those character flaws indirectly by exemplifying counter-strengths to those weaknesses.

Women love a man who Just Gets It, and the best, playful way of expressing that is with Amused Mastery; but it’s even more sexy when that Mastery extends to men who she perceives are your intersexual rivals. This then, by association, compliments her ego for your Amused Mastery of her.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Not Born This Morning
7 years ago

Kristine – a prostitute in the making.

Don’t discourage her, some guys will make use of her.

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

Haven’t been following the swarm of incels discussion but wanted to address this part: @Softek “Don’t even get me started on incels. If sex has EVER been a regular, normal part of your life, it is impossible for you to understand what someone like me has gone through.” Agreed. A hideous ugly girl can get SOMEONE to stick it in her. But a really low value dude just isn’t attractive even to ugly women because they need a guy slightly higher in value than them (even if it’s only momentarily) to be attracted. Go to like, an anime convention or… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Jeremy, That is a well developed argument, thank you for taking me seriously enough to make that effort. But… About grey areas, you can’t always get what you want instantly on demand. As INTP, my approach is not to make plans, but to recognize opportunities. “I think you’d agree that in order for the average guy to get laid, he needs coin.” When I had that fling with the married 21yo sister of my friend when I was in high school, my allowance was about $10/wk. No coin whatsoever was needed to do that. The GF I’ve been living with… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
7 years ago

@ianironwood ……….”Just sayin’, sweetie. Time is shorter than you think.” Don’t be fooled. The worst monsters come in the form of some poor pathetic little naive thing that needs your help and advice. All the signs are blatant, goth, BSDM, bulimia, etc. it is all bullshit. If that bitch were that stupid, she wouldn’t have the sense to access the Internet and would be living in a state hospital or dependent on her family for her entire life. The fact is, she isn’t worth the shit she’s made of for LTR and it is her choice. Good grief, you are… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
7 years ago

I can see where you would want to brag about your achievements online. If they qualified as true achievements. But airing your dirty secrets, when they are less than noble, and when you are 23-25 years old is just odd.
Like the spammer linker. What exactly is the end game? To figure out yourself. Not the best way to go about it.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@jacklabear If you can’t find a woman that will have sex with you and can pass your boner test, how are you going to get laid? Upon further reflection, I’d say that’s probably the ultimately case with the options most incels are left with. Periods I have spent in my life where I would truly label myself incel, that was almost always the case. I had options, but I couldn’t get a boner for them if my life depended on it. That’s pretty much how I’d label incel: a guy that has no options he can get a hardon for,… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
7 years ago

@Not Born This Morning Why the vitriol rather than indifference to her plight? Ian Ironwood is em-pathetically giving her practical advice. Lock down that metal head reviewer and it is the best she can do. Ever. An internet check can show he seems decent. I wouldn’t want to be him, but it is certainly good advice for her. And Ian I. is serious. Very good targeted advice. Are you white knighting the boyfriend? She’s the client on the Rational Male thread who comes asking for advice. Just like if she came asking for advice on Athol Kays site or So… Read more »

therhoubbhe
therhoubbhe
7 years ago

@jacklabear I am not saying they are all MGTOW incels, they are mating game losers because they are poor, lack education, lack money, and most importantly lack game. The Japanese government for example is distraught over the financial implications of so many sexless men in their country. It is not by choice for all those men; many are due to decades long recession, debt, and unrestrained hypergamy. There are many insane governmental policies which unbalance gender dynamics and cause complete fucking chaos; a recent example was the ‘Yes’ still means ‘Guilty” policies they want to enact. Most men here with… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

@Jack, When I had that fling … my allowance was about $10/wk. The GF I’ve been living with … paid me to be her live in lover. This focuses only on the money, but my argument had two conditions for men being men. A job gives purpose and identity as well as money. Listless layabouts have no identity, and are more likely to disqualify themselves from dating entirely. Is it possible for RP spokesmen to do the same? Limited intellect, which we all possess, implies the existence of blind spots towards the self. In particular is this image of hordes… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

For the record, if you view incel as I defined it above, then yes perceived SMV inflation for women (which is a growing problem) would cause incels to grow as a part of the population. Between this and the employment issues which Jeremy raised, I’ll tell you exactly what you get: Japan. Incel males (herbivores) out the wazoo resulting in desperate females (hunters) that now find themselves unable to get what little sexual satisfaction they seek since they’ve priced so much of the male population out of the market through perceived SMV inflation. And in their case, the female side… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
7 years ago

About “bullying”….

I love this site.

I love freedom of speech and freedom of press.

I love my second amendment right which gives me the right to defend my freedom of speech and freedom of press.

If someone chooses to commit suicide because they don’t like this, then they are helping clean up the gene pool.

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

The evil ugly feminists didn’t only lie to men, they lied to women. Before that evil , parents used to tell their kids the truth about their physical appearance or attractiveness They would tell a short boy who isn’t attractive to study and work hard to compensate and look for a women who is his equal. They would tell the average looking girl/woman to be realistic about her looks and there won’t be a prince on a white horse,and try to compensate in other ways It was all about being honest to them and telling them their true value. You… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

In fact among Caucasian Americans where feminism is strongest and I would bet SMV inflation is strongest as well (it always seems to be a middle class white girl, does it not?), a lot of sources have shown declines in the population similar to Japan already. http://www.medicaldaily.com/population-white-americans-declining-first-time-ever-what-will-race-look-americas-future-246815 If we were like Japan with xenophobic immigration policies and no border shared with other countries, we would probably already be in population decline. This, in my mind, is strong evidence that there probably is a large and growing block of incels in the population. Some of the decline is probably due to… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Mr T.

There is no shame with being unattractive but the calamity is when an unattractive person think she/he is a 10.

Absolutely. Additionally it seems that uncalibrated knowledge of your value to the opposite sex is unforgivable in men, but laudable in women according to society. Men better know their place, but women better believe they’re all hot.

Not Born This Morning
7 years ago

@sjfrellc February 6th, 2015 at 12:57 am @Not Born This Morning Why the vitriol rather than indifference to her plight? Ian Ironwood is em-pathetically giving her practical advice. Lock down that metal head reviewer and it is the best she can do. Ever. An internet check can show he seems decent. I wouldn’t want to be him, but it is certainly good advice for her. And Ian I. is serious. Very good targeted advice. Are you white knighting the boyfriend? She’s the client on the Rational Male thread who comes asking for advice. Just like if she came asking for… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Dr. J,

“Are you referring to PUAs/poaching/boyfriend-destroying? Are you thinking that this behavior is somehow only motivated by making up for incels?”

Touche’

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

The reproduction rate of the developed world, corrected for immigration from 2nd/3rd world countries, shows a rate that is below replacement. If that doesn’t strongly (albeit circumstantially) demonstrate large numbers of incels, what would? Generally the planned pregnancy demographics (upper-middle-class and above) are always below replacement, but the middle-class and lower segment of your population makes up for that. Yet, in the developed world this is not so. There’s plenty of white-trash in America, plenty… but they’re not replacing themselves at the rate they used to. Is that only because of contraceptives? Or is it because voluntary sex with women… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

For the record… I am not Dr. Jeremy. I am also not the non-avatar lower-case “jeremy”. There are multiple people using this name on Rollo’s comment forum.

Dr. Jeremy is actually better spoken than I am. I presume his Dr title is earned. Mine would not be.

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

@Sun

When some fathers push their boys to become Gretzky or Michael Jordan and at some point when it becomes obvious there is no hope they stop but not when dealing with girls though.
If the girls can’t be Maria Callas they become like hear me roar (check Dalrak).

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
7 years ago

@ Nathan I am absolutely not this Kristine chick. I’ve read RP sites for years, I don’t have “questions” about my relationship, I’m the complete opposite of goth, and there’s no way in hell I would post photos or other identifying information about myself. But honestly, Rollo gets a million hits a month. It’s not that crazy if women post now and then, and it doesn’t make us all the same person. I’ve been busy as hell this week so I haven’t continued posting, but now I’m just perusing to relax before I fall asleep. @ Softek Save up your… Read more »

Badpainter
7 years ago

Sun Wukong – “Additionally it seems that uncalibrated knowledge of your value to the opposite sex is unforgivable in men, but laudable in women according to society.” Not just lauded but embraced, advoated, and fully subsidized. Fat acceptance, and the constant effort to sell career and education as substitutes for attractive (both sexual, and general) qualities in the absence of anything else have not just created inflation but redefined the market from the sellers perspective. It woud be like removing 90% of the meat in the grocery store and selling tofu, or maybe Soylent Green, as the perfect, better even,… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Sun Wukong, “I had options, but I couldn’t get a boner for them if my life depended on it.” I’m an engineer. I would take viagra. It’s cheap as a research chemical. But I don’t need viagra because I have a different kind of blue pill. I now see myself as fortunate that I like compatibility in personality and temperament, enjoy the resulting emotional connection, and appreciate true femininity and dripping desire for me, combined with loyalty and find that most readily in a woman that doesn’t need rubbers, that is enough to overide all kinds of visual flaws as… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@jacklabear

If I have to take Viagra to get a boner for her, she’s not worth getting a boner for.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Sun Wukong
February 6th, 2015 at 2:05 am

“@jacklabear

If I have to take Viagra to get a boner for her, she’s not worth getting a boner for.”

I hear you.

Mine is built in and always on, so that issue doesn’t come up for me, paradoxical pun intended.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Jeremy,

“Are you referring to PUAs/poaching/boyfriend-destroying? Are you thinking that this behavior is somehow only motivated by making up for incels?”

Yes.
The utility of a justification is independent of the motivation for the behavior being justified. It doesn’t matter why they do what they do, if they want to justify it, the image of hordes of incels roaming the streets makes for a good justification.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@jacklabear “The utility of a justification is independent of the motivation for the behavior being justified.” Horseshit. My reasons for engaging in those behaviors are exclusively about their benefits to me. Period. I look at incels only as something I wish to avoid becoming, and as a way to understand where Blue Pill men feel their worst pain. It’s not about justice at all to me. If there’s any “justice” to be spoken of for incels, each incel is responsible for seeking justice for their own condition by improving their situation with the same information I’ve used. Every man wipes… Read more »

stuttie
7 years ago

Farrrrk this thread has so much going on.Love it… @ YaReally – again, epic demolition of gregg’s and npn7672’s purple poo. @ Mr T – I think blue pill fathers have blood on their hands with regards to inflating their daughters SMV. BP father boilerplate always defaults instinctively inflating their daughters SMV. “oh you are sooooo beautiful bebe” when deep down daddy knows she’s a wildebeest – yet almost by proxy tries to optimize her SMV to somewhat justify his own low SMV – because DNA, or poor mate selection, has resulted in bebe being a pig (yet on instagram… Read more »

Bromeo
Bromeo
7 years ago

@YaReally “Obviously Rollo you should protect your family’s privacy and all that, it goes without saying…but down the road when your girl has made it through her early 20s, please give serious consideration to, even totally anonymously, writing a book or something on raising a daughter (and even your thoughts on raising a son since I’m sure they would be valuable too) while having a red pill understanding of the world.” This is actually pretty important. I find the general RP community is focused too heavily on the spinning plates phase in life but not much is discussed afterwards when… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

@jacklabear The utility of a justification is independent of the motivation for the behavior being justified. It doesn’t matter why they do what they do, if they want to justify it, the image of hordes of incels roaming the streets makes for a good justification. And? It actually goes without saying that humans with moral dilemmas will find justifications for their actions regardless of base motivation. Did someone, somewhere, make the claim that the reason for girlfriend poaching was to make up for hordes of incels? I would argue that any game practitioner who poaches actually faces no moral dilemma.… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Sun Wukong,

By justification I didn’t mean justice, I meant an excuse for behavior that is ethically debatable.

1.
to show (an act, claim, statement, etc.) to be just or right:
The end does not always justify the means.
2.
to defend or uphold as warranted or well-grounded:
Don’t try to justify his rudeness.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

As in the image of hordes of incels roaming the streets like a zombie apocalypse.
“Rally behind us in wiping out this scourge – any means are acceptable to acheive the goal. The very future of mankind is depending on you to poach mates, no matter what any of the Great Books For Men may have said about that in the past.”

That’s what I’m talking about.

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

Well, it is kinda like a zombie apocalypse. I’m guessing we’re literally discussing 20-30% (likely more) of the male population and 90% of those men have no idea how to get out of their incel status.

Incels aren’t going to be poaching women in any large numbers anytime soon, and I’d guess 99% of them would find it distasteful due to their blue pill conditioning.

gregg
gregg
7 years ago

@yareally “You can’t say you don’t respect men “who pursue the goals of others instead of theirs of their own” and then go on to define the acceptable goals for men. Cognitive dissonance and hamster rationalization…LIKE A WOMAN. Oh the irony. lol” I am not defining “acceptable goals for men” I define what I respect.Hiltler migh have pursued his own goals but I do not respect him just for that. Do you? I do not respect men who pursue the goals of others, but just the thing that someone is pursuing his own goals does not make him respectable for… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@jacklabear It’s still horseshit. That’s not at all why I think the way I do about it. I know what it takes to succeed under the circumstances we live in and I’m willing to do it. While I don’t want to see Red Pill advice sugar coated to make it palatable (as it then becomes less about how reality works and more about being nice), in the end I can’t care what happens to incels while my own house is not yet in order. I really don’t know how you make the leap from “If you want to get laid… Read more »

newlyaloof
7 years ago

I think Kristine is a lost soul. She seems to need to fix her relationships with her family/past/self before she worries about fixing any problems with her relationships. Goth has never meant anything to me other than an outward expression of unhappiness with life and one’s self.

@Yareally; haha, I think ANY woman posting to a blog like Rollo’s is doing her own boyfriend destroying just by being here.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@gregg

Announcing publicly that you don’t respect a particular person’s actions is a tactic to shame them. Calling them out as any number of dirty names for their actions is an attempt to shame them. Saying otherwise is disingenuous. You’re attempting to sway them towards actions you find acceptable through a shaming mechanism.

“I’m not trying to shame you, but I’m going to try shaming you” is basically all I’m hearing from you and basically every other Purple Piller up in here.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

@ Rollo, “ugh” I would like to de-ugh you. I believe I have assimilated the lesson and understand how it applies to me and others encountered here. You pointed out that AMOG status is completely context dependent. Change the context, circumvent overt horn locking, and the bogeyman disappears. The theater in which I operate plays to my natural strengths such that I never even engage or meet the enemy (AMOG as BF, husband). Since there is no battle, supplies, logistics and effort are not needed. The spoils come to me, and automatically they are of high quality to me. I… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Sun Wukong,

Chill out. I pointed out that my own mating behavior is fair game to the same ethical debate.
I was not addressing any individual. I was looking at it from a general sociological POV.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@jacklabear Just because I call something “horseshit” doesn’t mean I’m not chilled out. It just means I think it’s horseshit. And I realize that’s where you’re coming from, but I know of basically no one in the PUA/Red Pill community outside of the newly unplugged guys that see poaching and AMOGing as needing any justification other than “I will get what I want through whatever technique that works.” I’m not taking it as a personal slight, I’m just seeing it as wrong-headed to believe there’s any other motivation behind it. Newly unplugged guys might see it as you were saying… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

“For it to work for you instead of against you, you must be using those ideas simply for the sake of your own personal success. Not as some type of crusade for or against anything.”

+1
Make your own self your mental point of origin. Then the rest falls in line.
This is true whether you’re Cory Worthington or Rollo Tomassi.

Jeremy
Jeremy
7 years ago

…anything that can be digital will be digital.

In god we trust, all others bring AES 256 with a physically created key seed.

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

“In the future, social media wont be instagram or FaceBook or even Twitter, it’ll be something even more immediate and permanent – anything that can be digital will be digital”.

Facebook will offer a live coverage for people by installing video cameras in houses for the rest of the world to see.

And then it’ll become the law of the land.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

The technology is a “Murphy Attractor” in more ways than that.
Think Tinder and its ramifications.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

Mr. T,

Orwell never imagined that we would be voluntarily carrying around everywhere we go those two way televisions that the State monitors.

Mr T.
Mr T.
7 years ago

@Jack
Look at all our communications online, it’s all documented and it’s so easy to study anyone’s personality by digging on everything he/she wrote.

jacklabear
jacklabear
7 years ago

I was told that I “wear it on my sleeve” before the web existed.
Maybe I need to cover myself with digital camo tats.

The flipside of the intrusion is the ease of using disinformation to manage the personae presented.
Matt Forney offers tips on that.

Kim
Kim
7 years ago

“Rollo, guys, I dunno if you have watched “Nightcrawler”…but I think that is one one the best RP movies from 2014… The display by the protagonist should form, along with RM and other readings, the hand book for every man…. The character is a sort of antithesis to amoging, just being a man, purposeful in every way…” Certainly Nightcrawlers is a fascinating movie, in fact – and I say this without exaggeration – politically it may be the most astonishing movie to come out of Hollywood in living memory. However the protagonist is hardly an alpha. In fact, he is… Read more »

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[…] their favorite martini bars. Modified versions of the Boyfriend Destroyer approach I mentioned in The Art of AMOG will do well for PUAs if you tweak it to presume these women are out in groups with the express […]

Lone Survivor
Lone Survivor
7 years ago

Rollo, you continue to miss the point with those PUA immature terms. A theoretical scenario such as this one (REMEMBER: IT IS A MOVIE, NOT A REAL VIDEO) can be explained based on two principles: 1. principle of provision: women will strive for men who can provide for her and their offspring. Did you saw the mansion Di Caprio has in the movie? 2. principle of certitude and third-party testing: women are addicted to safety and aversive to risk. Di Caprio is married at that time and his wife is nearby. Why is this essential? Because the female brain computes… Read more »

Lone Survivor
Lone Survivor
7 years ago

An addendum. That is why men who lack masculinity and character may end banging hotties, simply because MONEY TALKS.

I have seen that in Spain. Friends of mine who are totally bluepilled being asked out by pretty women simply because they have a car and a permanent government job with a salary of 1500 euro.

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[…] ‘man’ designation as an unwitting point of pride. Examples abound of self-righteous Betas AMOGing other men for not being ‘real men’ (according to the imperative) like themselves. What […]

Derk
Derk
4 years ago

I have been both the AMOG and the non-AMOG. It is fairly easy being the AMOG in the sense of when you look at a group who is the alpha male. Good body posture, not too much smiling, take up space (wide stance) will automaticly make men and women react to you as if you are an alpha male. If you are intelligent you can play the alpha but also tone it down. Men that are naturally alpha and do not know any different can get stabbed in the back by jealous beta’s. I know because I was one. I… Read more »

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[…] why men shun it in the discussion. Naturally, there’s a common impulse for Publicity Pastors to AMOG from the pulpit and shame men for avoiding marriage, but they can’t argue against the marriage […]

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