Socialized Hypergamy

2

This weekend’s discussion post was inspired by commenter Johnnycomelateley

Rape hysteria also has a deeper motive, equalitarianism (high taxes and social distribution) has changed the economic ecology and altered the incentives for female bonding patterns.

Several economists and anthropologists contend that society is transitioning from monogamy to serial monogamy (serial polygyny).

For serial polygyny to be facilitated women require absolutely unfettered, unrestricted, unconditional, uncommitted, unrestrained, unmoralizing, independent and completely free and unqualified safe access to sexual free choice. Unbounded by contracts, agreements, social norms, moral restraints, religious injunctions, social ties, aesthetic norms, maternal obligations, infanticide (abortion), selling progeny (adoption) and economic restrictions.

Anything that is deemed as restrictive is seen as limiting this choice, male spaces, employment obstacles, undesirable attention, unsafe neighbourhoods, male aesthetic standards, religion and of course rape.

What we are seeing is ‘choice hysteria’, anytime someone somewhere restricts female sexual choice it is met with unbounded fury. Even centuries long legal precedents and wrongful imprisonment must acquiesce to facilitate free choice.

Here are some quotes showing we are transitioning to serial polygyny.

Murdock’s (1967) Ethnographic Atlas categorized just 16% of 862 cultures as exclusively monogamous, with polygamy being found at some level in the rest.

A 2011 study from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control found that just 23% of women and 14.7% of men aged 25-44 had one (or zero) opposite-sex lifetime partners.

Frank Marlowe, Biological Anthropology – Cambridge
When males provide all the income but some have much more than others, richer males achieve polygyny, while ecologically imposed monogamy prevails in case of moderate inequality. When males provide an intermediate level of investment with little variation, females are not excessively dependent on males and serial monogamy may arise.

David de la Croix, Professor of Economics
In a society with few rich males and virtually no rich females, polygyny is supported by rich males, who can naturally monopolize a larger number of partners, and poor females, who prefer to be the n-th wife of a rich male rather than marrying a poor male monogamously.

Eventually, however, the number of rich males increases enough, and poor females prefer to marry monogamously.

Serial monogamy follows from a further enrichment of the society, through a rise in either the share of rich males, or the the proportion of rich females.

Monique Mulder, Anthropology
A key finding here is that while men do not benefit from multiple marriages, women do. Although the data are very variable (large standard errors), women appear to gain more from multiple mating than do men.

I’ve written more than a few posts about equalism here, but one thing that needs to be made clear is that a true state of egalitarian equalism among the sexes is neither tenable nor sustainable in any realistic measure. There is always a dominant / submissive dynamic in all human relations (not just intersexual ones), even in same sex pairings. While that dom-sub relation may be flexible in various circumstantial instances, the meta-relationship dynamic tends to place the more dominant personality at the top of an intersexual relation.

For the better part of human history this dominance has been expected from a Man, and I daresay as a species we evolved into that dominant role both physically and psychologically. But for the past 60+ years, since the advent of ubiquitous, unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control, the social and physical constraints of women’s innate Hypergamy, that had been kept in check by Men’s default dominance, has been unfettered.

When I wrote Owed Sex I went into detail about how women’s perception of their hypergamous choices have been contained by men:

The premise that a man would ever be ‘owed’ sex for anything is offensive to the feminine imperative because it offends women’s self-entitlement to being filters of their own hypergamy, plain and simple. Women’s hypergamy dictates whom they will and will not fuck according to their sexual strategy’s most urgent needs.

To presume a man is ‘owed’ sex for services rendered, or due to his own self-perceived prequalifications for a woman’s intimacy, is to remove women’s control of the decision making / filtering process of their hypergamy.

The offensiveness doesn’t come from the notion that men would need to perform in order to get sex, but rather that a man might forcibly assume control of a woman’s hypergamous determining of his sexual suitability for her.

When I wrote that post it was before the Yes Means Yes law had been enacted as well as before the “rape crisis” hysteria we find ourselves in as the result of the machinations of a feminist writer who actively hunts for pulp fiction rape stories to embellish. All now proven a complete and calculated fabrication.

However the base motivation is still the same, and I agree with Johnnycomelately, the social press for equalism is a suitable mask for socialized Hypergamy.

The Feminine Imperative isn’t interested in anything like an idealized state of egalitarian equalism between the sexes; it is only interested in unilateral, uncontested, and socially assured optimization of women’s Hypergamy.

Equalism is an anathema to Hypergamy.

So long as women are subject to innate hypergamous influences there can never be a socialized state of egalitarian equalism between men and women. By its very nature the Feminine Imperative will always seek an unequal state – maximal restriction of male sexuality and maximal unrestriction of optimized feminine Hypergamy. The persistence of pressing the idea that equalism between the sexes is a realizable goal state is necessary to achieve those maximized / optimized conditions.

For men, the end result of that optimized state is really a form of normative, accepted, socialized cuckoldry. However, the efforts to achieve this state are in social evidence all around us now.

Milo Yiannopoulos has an excellent two-part article, Sexodus, on Breitbart London outlining the cultural impact socialized Hypergamy is having on men today and how they are “checking out of society”.

In part two Milo explains:

Men, driven, as many of them like to say, by fact and not emotion, can see that society is not fair to them and more dangerous for them. They point to the fact that they are more likely to be murder victims and more likely to commit suicide. Women do not choose to serve in the Armed Forces and they experience fewer deaths and injuries in the line of work generally.

Women get shorter custodial sentences for the same crimes. There are more scholarships available to them in college. They receive better and cheaper healthcare, and can pick from favourable insurance packages available only to girls. When it comes to children, women are presumed to be the primary caregiver and given preferential treatment by the courts. They have more, better contraceptive options.

Women are less likely to be homeless, unemployed or to abuse drugs than men. They are less likely to be depressed or to suffer from mental illness. There is less pressure on them to achieve financial success. They are less likely to live in poverty. They are given priority by emergency and medical services.

Some might call these statistical trends “female privilege.” Yet everywhere and at all times, say men’s rights advocates, the “lived experiences” and perceived oppression of women is given a hundred per cent of the airtime, in defiance of the reality that women haven’t just achieved parity with men but have overtaken them in almost every conceivable respect. What inequalities remain are the result of women’s choices, say respectable feminist academics such as Christina Hoff Sommers, not structural biases.

And yet men are constantly beaten up over bizarre invented concepts such as rape culture and patriarchal privilege. The bizarre but inevitable conclusion of all this is that women are fueling their own unhappiness by driving men to consider them as sex objects and nothing more, because the thought of engaging in a relationship with a woman is horrifying, or too exhausting to contemplate.

I don’t see men as ‘checking out’ of society so much as I see them being  forced to develop personal and cultural contingencies to adapt to a feminine-primary social order that’s based on socialized Hypergamy. The obvious comparisons to Japan’s culture of “herbivorous” men is nothing new to the manosphere, but what is new is the increasing awareness of the consequences of socialized Hypergamy.

The MGTOW movement (such as it is) is a good example of this adaptation, but even men going their own way are still directly and indirectly subject to the social pressures created by feminine social primacy and socialized Hypergamy. Irrespective of how insulated a man may think he is with regard to interacting with women, he’s still subject to the correlative impact of the societal changes that mandate maximally restricting his sexuality while legislating women’s right to optimal Hypergamy into law.

Imagined “rape crisis” hysteria, affirmative consent laws, politicians attempting to redefine rape as men ‘misrepresenting’ themselves in order to have sex with a woman, and defining domestic abuse as “restricting of finances“, higher divorce rates, marriage rates at an all time low, are all evidence of a feminine-primary socialization of Hypergamy that hides behind an egalitarian ruse.

The more men refuse to cooperate with socialized Hypergamy, the more the Feminine Imperative will legislate their compliance with it. But at some point it will reach a state of critical mass. The UVA gang rape hoax, the fem-centric maliciousness of Sabrina Rubin-Erdely and the blind, ego-invested adherence to an unassailable feminine correct narrative of its ‘believers’ was a good primer for this critical mass.

Most of what I’ve delved into here has been manosphere staple for more than 13 years now, but the mainstream exposure from the likes of Milo and even the national dialogue generated from the UVA gang rape hoax (as deliberately distractive as it is), is evidence that the previously hidden social machinations of feminine social primacy are becoming unignorable.

As Open Hypergamy and the Sandbergian embrace of women’s sexual pluralism becomes more normative, so too will Red Pill awareness become more mainstream. Men aren’t dropping out of feminine-primary society, they’re adapting contingencies for it, learning workarounds, comparing notes, and a growing Red Pill awareness is at the heart of that adaptation, even for men who’ve never heard of it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Bango Tango
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How the environment determines reproductive strategies. It starts off a little slow and then explains the necessary terms. Don’t quit after the first paragraph.

@M Simon. Good stuff…thanks for the link.

Hobbes
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Lots of left/right/socialism/whatever talk here today.. I won’t pretend to have a deep understanding of history, or any of these topics, but as someone who is open minded and given towards rationalism I find that all of it smells of bullshit. I can make a case that it’s the free market capitalists and bankers etc who masterminded mens decline and the rise of the FI. In the end I think all these “conspiracy” theories as to why we are where we are today are just that.. It also conveniently plays into the white knight tendency of even RP men to… Read more »

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@Hobbes re: “Just stop playing by their rules.” and “stop doing anything that does not put you and your interests first and foremost.”

Yes, but easier said than done for most men. It is literally definitionally good that most men are conditioned to play by the rules and to put others first. Breaking rules and being selfish is literally bad.

So it is sad that a man being bad is what *works* with women. There is no Goldilocks level of extra-medium badness; the badder, the better it works.

Historians
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Gentlemen,

I’m not in a position to fight this fight, and never wanted it to begin with. I was shocked that it even surfaced out of the shadows in the form of a YouTube video… never expected that. I’m out. It’s all yours.

jf12
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The Bible in Daniel 4 makes it clear that Nebuchadnezzar’s eating grass was evidence of his being cursed by God.

Bachelorocles
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“Several economists and anthropologists contend that society is transitioning from monogamy to serial monogamy (serial polygyny)” Humans have never been monogamous. We didn’t evolve to be monogamous. Monogamy is unnatural. The only way to achieve monogamy throughout society is through brute force via either religion or law (tyranny). If one accepts that all human beings are of equal moral value – in other words, if one rejects aristocracy, rejects inequality before the law, and accepts modern morality instituted since the Enlightenment that all humans are created equal – then you must accept the freedom of men and women freely to… Read more »

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It appears true that a typical optimum level of polygyny for a typical male (i.e. not a special male) human is about four or five females, exclusive to him. Four women for one man, and the women do not get other men while exlcusive. Fewer than four women are a pain because he will get less sex and fewer children from less women, e,g, two, than four. But many more than four women, e.g. eight, are also a pain for other reasons, especially infighting so they say. What, instead, is the typical optimum N level of serial monogamy for a… Read more »

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jf12 – “Yes, but easier said than done for most men. It is literally definitionally good that most men are conditioned to play by the rules and to put others first.”

That is premised on the assumption that rewards for good behavior exist, you know the “first set of books.”

And I don’t think it’s necessary to make “bad” men, just men can say “no.”

Hobbes
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@jf12- I would argue that maybe it’s time to redefine what “bad” is. Like a parent who spoils a child by being “good” and “nice”, men have collectively done bad by trying to be so good. The goodness or badness of an action can be measured by its result, in the action itself. If men being “good” by providing and playing by the rules is leading to the destruction of family, the suffering of kids growing up in torn homes, and the collapse of society in general, then I would argue that man playing by those rules is actually the… Read more »

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Bachelorocles – “If one accepts that all human beings are of equal moral value – in other words, if one rejects aristocracy, rejects inequality before the law, and accepts modern morality instituted since the Enlightenment that all humans are created equal – then you must accept the freedom of men and women freely to choose sex partners. This will result in unfettered hypergamy and it will result in alpha males and males of high social status and wealth hoarding female sex partners leaving scraps for the rest of men….” Hypergamy runs amok when the betas are compelled by violence to… Read more »

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@ Bangonmydick – How about you actually comment on what I said? Rollo has lamented on these pages for a long time about the fetishization of radical egalitarianism in radfem circles. He asks where it comes from, in fact. I explained where it came from. I didn’t make any claims about the relative importance of politics versus the FI, and in fact such an analysis would be silly as it all occurs in a complex system with many factors and feedbacks and nonlinear effects that can’t ever be held constant to test just one. But just as I can’t and… Read more »

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Bango Tango December 14th, 2014 at 3:57 pm I think the point is that the Marxist adapted to their environment. The point of all the politics is: can their strategy be derailed. If not then the next question is how to adapt. Another question is: can the abundance be sustained? My guess is not. For two reasons. 1. The politics is against it. Men don’t like to produce for other men’s kids. Even less so women. 2. The climate is going to go into a Maunder like Minimum for about 40 to 80 years. Just as the cycles ganged up… Read more »

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@Badpainter “Hypergamy runs amok when the betas are compelled by violence to feed cloth and house the bastards of other men.” As I stated, there is an easy fix for this: do not marry. I would agree the laws should be changed such that no man should be forced to pay child support for offspring of another man. “When the betas are on the hook to pay for a society that won’t reward them there is no equality.” That problem has been created by the business environment in the US where we have witnessed record corporate profits for years with… Read more »

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I bet most here don’t realize that Obama is a Marxist Well I saw that one coming. Alinsky and all. I was arguing that on my blog starting in late 2007 and going all the way up to the election. As far as I can tell it didn’t make a whit of difference. The hysteria was too great and Sarah Palin was everything the left wanted to be/hated in a woman. Of course she had to be destroyed. For national politics a woman has to be non-competitive. Liz Warren looks bad enough. Hillary has crows feet. If the Rs run… Read more »

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@Glenn- stopped reading at your STFU moment. What happened, did your pussy start menstruating? I tend to like your comments and find them informative, but don’t be an internet badass with me, cunt. You don’t have the balls to get that way in person, don’t pull it here. I answered with an opinion, one you were free to disprove of without the insulting shit I never aimed your way. And one of the most dishonest arguments is that one must read a million books before you can prove or explicate your point. If you have a point or proof of… Read more »

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Hobbes – “I want no part of such a tyranny, like Saudi Arabia, which would force starvation on a human being for a sexual choice. Again, if you accept modern morality instituted since the Enlightenment, then you must accept free sexual choice of men and women.” Sure, but the tyranny you don’t want is actually your freedom and liberty to produce for yourself and then choose who will benefit from your success. The status quo takes that choice away and forces you to produce for the so called “common good” and if you don’t then you personally will face the… Read more »

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@Badpainter

“Free sexual choice isn’t really free when parties not involved in the choice are compelled to pay for the consequences of those choices.”

Then we’re back to solutions. The only solution is to institute the force of law – because cheating, sleeping around, and having multiple partners are not going away. I would rather pay for that behavior with my tax dollars than to institute tyranny to control such behavior.

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@Bachelorocles- “If one accepts that all human beings are of equal moral value “- full stop, freedom and equality before the law does not equate will “equal moral value”. There are many choices we can make that are not considered of equal moral value and punished or shamed accordingly. The FI actually counts on doing this at every turn. I think you’re making a mistake I see many people do, that just because one has the freedom to do something, doesnt mean they should do it, or that it is a good thing to do, or even worse, the moral… Read more »

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Hobbes, the solutions don’t all require tyranny. Simply, the safety net incentivizes irresponsibility. Take it away and people adjust their choices accordingly. Starvation can be avoided by humility, and seeking charity. The real tyranny is compelling the betas to pay taxes to support the bastards of other men, to support the women that ignore them, pay the agents of the state to punish their non-compliance, and support the corporate welfare (DOD) that allows BigBiz to export their jobs. The current SMP is dysfunctional because of market externalities that are largely the result of silly men buying into the notion that… Read more »

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Socialized Hypergamy. It will end. It has to end. Civil war won’t end it; economic collapse won’t end it; the fall of western civilization won’t end it. Women will end it. It not the natural order. Yes woman are hypergamic. But you know what, men are horny. Are woman being raped in the streets? No. Yes women desire to “marry up” and they always have. That’s been controlled. Think 50,000 years, 250,000 generations ago, People lived in tribes. The leader needed his boys. Could he fuck their woman and survive? Could the women survive with the men at each other’s… Read more »

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@Hobbes “I think you’re making a mistake I see many people do, that just because one has the freedom to do something, doesnt mean they should do it, or that it is a good thing to do, or even worse, the moral thing to do. Yes, people have the freedom to choose their own partners, etc, that doesn’t mean we have to value their choices as legitimate or moral.” As a principles, I agree. But the question is: what can be done to countervail unfettered hypergamy? Roll back modern morality and institute pre-modern morality (I don’t want to go there),… Read more »

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Badrocks December 14th, 2014 at 4:37 pm So many in the manosphere blame women for this. I blame men. Alpha males hoard women and beta males kiss ass. If you had been reading all the comments in this thread you would know you didn’t have a clue. What has changed is the environment. Abundance. Hell. I gave a link http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/the-theory/rk-selection-theory/ not too far up thread and you haven’t read even that. Sexual strategies are determined by abundance/scarcity. The politics will follow. The Marxists are prepared to rule abundance (and probably run it into the ground along with all the surplus… Read more »

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@Bachel- “Is life in the state of nature really solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short?” yes! In your comment is the root of why we have kind of allowed things to go so far- men like the idea of easy access to sex, so we rationalize the problems it leads to down the road. We lament that we have unfair divorce laws, tax burdens and expectations, but we like our easy to get bjs so we don’t shame women or voice our real opinions, and don’t rock the boat. But here is the thing- if we are going to allow… Read more »

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Badrocks December 14th, 2014 at 5:04 pm I was wondering why I didn’t like you. Now it is much clearer. “Record corporate profits” Who do you think that money belongs to? Were the customers willing to buy at the price offered? If so what is the problem? You think they have it too good? Easy. Go into business and be willing to take less profit. You will get the business. Well you want to tax the profits away? How can the corp. deal with a bad year if it has no surplus? You have been infused with Marxists economics and… Read more »

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I think the point is that the Marxist adapted to their environment. The point of all the politics is: can their strategy be derailed. If not then the next question is how to adapt. Another question is: can the abundance be sustained? My guess is not. For two reasons. 1. The politics is against it. Men don’t like to produce for other men’s kids. Even less so women. 2. The climate is going to go into a Maunder like Minimum for about 40 to 80 years. Just as the cycles ganged up to give us a century long warm spell… Read more »

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@Msimon- Hate to get into economics, especially here, but fuck it, all the free market retards do it, so why not? The problem with “record profits” is that it’s two sets of books. Corporations use money to buy politicians and get laws passed that undermines labor, avoids fair taxation through loopholes and funnel tax dollars into their coffers. Along come the free market retards to defend the practice and accuse anyone who smells the stench of a rigged game as a socialist or a Marxist blah blah… The medical industry is a cool example of how Americans are fucked by… Read more »

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@Hobbes Unfettered hypergamy and the lopsided divorce laws are separate things. Even if we corrected those laws, hypergamy would still exist, and women would still control the sex market. Open sexual mores did not lead to these laws. Those laws were on the books before the 1960s. Mansfield’s Rule (creating a presumption that the child born in a marriage belongs to the husband) was adopted in the US long ago. The unfair divorce laws are a carryover from the days of chivalry in which women were deemed to be lesser beings requiring our special protection. “if we are going to… Read more »

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Hobbes what you just described is in no way a free market. It’s crony capitalist system where the parasites are killing the host.

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“You’re referring to single mothers collecting welfare? What is the solution? Use the criminal law to force women to marry? Require child licenses before one may have a baby and prosecute women who have children without a license and force them to give the child to adoption?”

I don’t actually give a damn so long as I don’t have to spend more time at labor to foot the bill.

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M Simon “I was wondering why I didn’t like you.” If you hate those with whom you disagree politically or economically, then you shouldn’t engage in debate on the issues. I respect those who hold different opinions. It’s been years since I disliked those who disagree with me. I hope one day you too grow out of it. “Easy. Go into business and be willing to take less profit. You will get the business.” How do you know I do or do not own a business? “You have been infused with Marxists economics and are probably not even aware of… Read more »

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@badpainter

“I don’t actually give a damn so long as I don’t have to spend more time at labor to foot the bill.”

That’s a fair,honest answer. Now for this question: what will cost more . . . ending welfare for single mothers or continuing with it?

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@bachel-“Unfettered hypergamy and the lopsided divorce laws are separate things.” they are part and parcel. The interpretations and implementation of law depend how hypergamy is viewed. This is why a man can be forced to pay child support for a child that was not his, and yes, men have had the responsibility to pay for their children, but they also kept children after a divorce if the woman broke her vows and the law allowed the same man to enforce discipline in his own home. Hypergamy drives which laws are kept and which are discarded… so I stand by my… Read more »

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Cost more to whom?

It’s not my problem and if it costs anyone it will be the mothers and children left without the safety net. Again not my problem. And this is all the result of stupid stupid women not making the connection between fucking and babies. Choices have consequences I’m tired of being hit up to pay bill for choices I wasn’t involved in.

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@badpainter-“Hobbes what you just described is in no way a free market. It’s crony capitalist system where the parasites are killing the host.”
Fair enough, but any free market system will inevitability lead to crony capitalism. The only thing that can stop crony capitalism from forming is laws limiting regulating commerce. But laws limiting and regulating commerce are by definition not “free market”. So laws that stop crony capitalism are then seen as marxist and socialist blah blah.
Round and round it goes

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“Round and round it goes…”

Indeed.

But you must understand regulation is the flip side of the cronyism. Best to minimize both.

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“they are part and parcel.” I don’t see a causal relation between hpergamy and unfair divorce laws. I’m open to your suggestion but I just don’t see it. “Hypergamy drives which laws are kept and which are discarded” Was it hyergamy which caused these laws to come into being or did men pass them and do men still enforce these laws because of old fashioned chivalry or, as you suggest, white knighting? “you keep saying this but it just isn’t true.. equality and freedom under law does not equate to equal morality of behavior. I addressed this already in an… Read more »

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@badpainter- The difference being that one (regulation) is needed to limit the other (cronyism), and the other (cronyism) serves no useful purpose, at all.

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“Hypergamy is here, it’s been set lose, and we’re not going to put the genie back in the bottle. We can deal with it, develop game, stay single, enjoy the good aspects of open sexual mores, or MGTOW.” Not sure I agree with some of your positions vis a vis morality/shame not returning etc,- but you do provide good food for thought. Thanks. Alot to chew on. As to the above quote. Yes, I agree- Game, MGTOW (are those mutually exclusive? I feel I do aspects of both in a way) and don’t get married etc…. make the best of… Read more »

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@Bachelorcles re: “there is an easy fix for this: do not marry.”

Not fixed:
1. Bachelor tax.
2. Having children.

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I had to laugh about Princess claiming to be “past the hormonal years” but a man.

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@Badpainter re: “just men can say “no.””

If so, then the penitent’s prayer would not include the request for forgiveness “for what I have done and what I have failed to do.”

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Rocket
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Still weighing all the arguments and some good points here (minus the insults tossed back/forth). Frankly I am interested in 3 main things: 1) Why is this happening 2) What can we do about it and 3) Where is all gonna lead. #1 To start, I get a bit of the Culture Marxism but don’t buy all of it. Rollo harps on evolutionary psych and how a lot of the behavior we see is based on genetics and human nature. I buy that A LOT. Yes Hypergamy has existed forever and has been unleashed at various times throughout history. What… Read more »

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Cherry picking a couple of stats from the wiki link: 8.7% of current inmates in the US are women. Stated another way, women are slightly more than 50% of the population but for every 1 woman in prison THERE ARE 12 MEN. “According to a US Department of Justice report published in 2006, over 7.2 million people were at that time in prison, on probation, or on parole (released from prison with restrictions). That means roughly 1 in every 32 Americans are held by the justice system” As mentioned, the FI controls the legal system and uses it to punish… Read more »

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“Alot to chew on.”

You’ve made me reconsider my positions too. Good debate!!

“I was in bed with a 24 yr old (I’m 45) last sunday who was kinky hot”

Atta boy!!!! One of the best things about being a man is that we age gracefully and, as Rollo points out, we can maintain a high SMV and can remain sex market elites even into deep middle age.

M Simon
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tticus December 14th, 2014 at 5:34 pm We live in a time when there is no local danger. So much wealth. So much freedom. We are living in an anomaly of human history. That is not proof it can’t continue. All it would take is very cheap fusion. And there are so many cost reductions possible. Cannabis medicine fully exploited is worth $1 trillion a year savings in the US alone. Think cure for cancer. A 2/3rds reduction in diabetes. And there are at least 700 maladies it can be applied to. If only the socons would stop standing in… Read more »

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Rocket
December 14th, 2014 at 9:49 pm

After you get enough pussy and get older, its just nicer to have someone to grow old with.

I’m 70. A data point. Yes it is. And children are a comfort too.

In another 10 years this will become more obvious as the boomers get into their 70s and 80s and start wailing about their lacks. Watch for the “I’m so lonely” articles.

M Simon
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Bango Tango December 14th, 2014 at 6:26 pm Even though you might have social relations between men and women changing dramatically from what it had been for all of human history there is still a chance that the crazy tech to come, virtual reality stuff like oculus will allow r and K to exist together without bringing about radical destruction of either. One of the bigger problems I see is that the two political philosophies do not understand that they need each other. They are suited to different ecological niches. Each “side” thinks they have all the answers and should… Read more »

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jf12 – “If so, then the penitent’s prayer would not include the request for forgiveness ‘for what I have done and what I have failed to do.'”

Hobbes explains it well. The “for what I have done and what I have failed to do” could easily refer to giving into silly demands and failing to maintain frame.

Our sin as men is in having allowed ourselves to be lead astray by consumer culture and believing that doing good=providing material trinkets to the women instead of acting as a break on their worst impulses.

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Badpainter
December 15th, 2014 at 1:48 am

Our sin as men is in having allowed ourselves to be lead astray by consumer culture

Surprisingly Marxist Marcuse made the same analysis. I don’t think that explains everything.

Our sin is that we are too successful. Without that success the production of trinkets would have little value. At least for the masses.

Think back to 500 years ago. Who supported the jewelers? The wealthy. The upper classes. Now everyone can get a gold ring with a diamond. And if it wasn’t for the diamond cartel diamonds would be as cheap as opals.

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OK Chaps, thought I’d just throw this POS advert out here:

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8sudqpOOHE&w=420&h=315%5D

I saw it some 10 years ago, knew it pissed me off mightily but couldn’t put words to it, thanks Rollo for fixing that.

Of course it is just an advert – not real life, but it’s the type made to appeal to a demographic by validating what they want & feel.

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Evidently the Plan is working well. Part of the polygynous Plan includes convincing many males to self-select themselves out of the running for reproducing with females.

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jf12 – “Evidently the Plan is working well.” It’s all for the good of the species, perfectly natural, organic even. That which is natural is always good you know hurricanes, Ebola, tornados, poisonous spiders, mosquitos, droughts, bubonic plague, infant mortality, etc. The state of nature is good and superior. Man er…Men are flawed, defective in that we always try to control nature. Be it by engineering civilizations, creating systems of governance, or creating Game the need of Men to change nature is a flaw corrected only by submitting to the FI and abandoning our minds. The current situation is sum… Read more »

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Badpainter
December 15th, 2014 at 7:24 am

Engineers have their own sayings.

You can’t fool mother nature.

And conservatives are just as hard at work trying to as are liberals.

I was looking at the blog posts over at the r/K site. They know the truth and yet are trying to fight it. Bring back the “good old days”. They want a War On Gays because gays disgust them. Playing right into the hands of the SJWs. Idiots.

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@ Hobbes – So, you have no factual refutation of a thing I said. Got it. My comment anticipated your ignorance and made a suggestion that you go educate yourself instead of running your ignorant mouth about things you don’t understand. As for shutting me up – good luck, monkeydick. I insult you because your comment to me was asinine. I can tell it frustrates you that you don’t have the requisite knowledge to actually counter what I posit here. I get it – you are ignorant of history and politics, but have some sense that I’m “wrong” so you… Read more »

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@ Rocket – Let’s just be clear. I didn’t say that “cultural marxism” causes the FI or feminism or anything like that. What I did is lay out the epistemological history of the relevant political philosophy and the actual history of the political actors in the movements I focused on, and how that gave rise to the radical egalitarianism present in the radfem and entire social justice movement. Rollo keeps focusing on the “radical egalitarianism” and how it’s so destructive – I’m explaining how this arose in our political system. It did not arise from feminism, it arose elsewhere and… Read more »

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@ M. Simon – I haven’t commented in your r/K selection commentary because it’s a very technical idea. Fyi, the reason I don’t comment on genetics much here is because I’ve actually been reading scientific texts on all of this and realize that the science behind all of this is much, much more complicated than most manospherians claim it to be. We have to be very careful of abusing evolutionary psychology to suit our priors. I’ve been at it for over a year now and am starting to get a good understanding of the basics. At some point, I will… Read more »

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Glenn, Nice to see you finding your inner Alpha. I have not studied the things you have in as great a depth (my efforts went elsewhere), but everything I have studied backs up your contentions. What is interesting is the wealth of information available. You don’t even have to buy books to get it. I have left a LOT of links on this thread proving that. We know that endocannabinoid production declines markedly at around age 25 or 30 and that generally fixes a person’s world view. So I would not be too surprised at the reaction. It is normal.… Read more »

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Glenn December 15th, 2014 at 10:12 am That said, it seems to me that r/K selection theory was supplanted as a model for Life History Theory due to its fixed nature. It has been replaced by a more stochastic model that allows for more axes of causality to be taken into account, and in general it’s thought that the lack of dynamics in r/K theory limits it’s usefulness. It’s also thought that r and K aren’t directly comparable. It is a useful shorthand and does get us thinking about various ecological pressures on survival strategies. But more than that? I… Read more »

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One thing H. Marcuse said in one of his videos struck me. Roughly: “We don’t hold that Marxism as originally expounded has all the answers. Conditions have changed.”

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What got me really interested in the r/K site it the number of citations in the literature of how resource availability affects hypergamy/mating patterns. I though the r/K piece was the best expositions of that I have seen. There are other factors. Birth control is a big one. Politics is another (no fault divorce which I touched on above). But we also have “rape culture” propaganda. But even if we take their bad statistics ant face value 3/4s of men are not rapists. So why do men take it? They have bought into group identity. They have accepted the sins… Read more »

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@ M. Simon – Ditto on MGTOW – making a lifestyle of defeat and hating women. It’s essentially a “rage-quit”. A commenter above says ‘solve it all with prostitutes’, lol. That is the ultimate in negotiated desire. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve done it and it can be fun. But it’s essentially quitting before you get out of the gate in terms of being successful with women. And after all, what I’m really after is a woman’s unbidden desire, but with a pro I’ve already “bid” for it. My “inner alpha” was always there, I now know that I’m quite… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Tam

never owned so much as a pot to piss in

or a window to throw it out of.

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You can take the feminist defintion of “rape culture” and replace every instance of rape with the word cuckold and it will perfectly explain what their agenda is. Cuckold culture is a concept that examines a culture in which cuckoldry is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality. I also propose that the manosphere create a new term. Cuckoldism Definition: 1) The promotion, advocacy, or support for an ideology of cuckoldry. 2) An ideology that seeks to enable, encourage, celebrate or normalise cuckoldry. 3) An ideology whose central organising premise is cuckoldry and its enabling. 4)… Read more »

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The first step to happiness is getting in touch with your inner animal and not feeling shame. The next is to see the world as an interplay of animals that try to invent rules to cope with their nature. Then everything becomes clear. A happy animal is one that respects the nature of himself and others and builds a life on those terms. Asking for the return of social rules and mores from a different era when nature has clearly changed is just crazy. A man can only adapt with the knowledge that he is the only jockey of his… Read more »

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Glenn, First while it is on my mind. – M/F mating patterns are also influenced heavily by the M/F ratio. When women predominate by as little as 1.05 to 1 the inner slut takes over. When the ratio is in the other direction monogamy. So that is another dimension. It is not just food/shelter etc. that enters the resource equation. === her inner emptiness could never be filled by anyone or anything They are all like that. In the book “Zen Flesh, Zen Bones” one Master says that of the men who try for Mastery 2/3s will accomplish it. Of… Read more »

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chris
December 15th, 2014 at 12:08 pm

We already have a term not so emotionally charged. Hypergamy.

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Because I am interested in ending Prohibition I hang out with lefties a lot. The difference between them and what I see in the manosphere is that lefties are always working on plans, inventing slogans, passing out studies, and the like to push their agenda. I have yet to see any sites in the manosphere dedicated to political action. It is all about the nature of women, men/women mating, how to keep a woman, and of course the big draw –> how to score pussy. I think it is in the nature of left/right. The left is biased to political… Read more »

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A woman can only bond to a man who is unashamed of his sexuality and never buys into the monogamy drivel. My father and mother have had a long, wonderful marriage but he always walked around with wolf eyes for women and never made a secret of his animal nature. My mother, a very bossy, aggressive woman, is completely bonded to him. That is the only way. Any man who actually buys into the idea that his sexuality can be controlled by marriage, is automatically a man whom the woman will not want to fuck.

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New Yorker
December 15th, 2014 at 2:13 pm

My dad was the same.

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@ M. Simon – Another point worth making is how unsettled much of the science is in the field of evolutionary biology. See this article laying out the huge disagreements between Richard Dawkins and Edward O. Wilson – two giants in the field. Wilson, fyi, invented the field of “socio-biology” that become evolutionary biology, as well as r/K selection theory. Here’s the article http://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jun/24/battle-of-the-professors. But what’s undeniably true is that many of the “truths” that are presented in the manosphere about the relationship between genetics and inter-sexual relationships are nothing of the sort. That’s not to say that heuristics aren’t… Read more »

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@M Simon The difference between them and what I see (here) is that (bullies in all shapes and sizes) are always working on plans, inventing slogans, passing out studies, and the like to push their agenda.

The bullies spend money (they’re given by a much larger power) hiring people around the world to create, manage and moderate countless sock puppet accounts to effectively push destructive concepts so they can feel they have more control over people that seek constant improvement.

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LiveFearless December 15th, 2014 at 7:15 pm In my experience the vast majority of them do it for free because they believe it to be in their interest. And you believe you are being bullied.That does not help. You are being out thought and out marketed. The bullying doesn’t come until they get laws passed. =============== You don’t even know what war you are fighting . How can you expect to win it? “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for… Read more »

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Glenn December 15th, 2014 at 6:18 pm There are cases of group selection in the animal kingdom. http://www1.ucsc.edu/currents/02-03/06-23/lizards.html That was given to me by a tradcon. And the essence of the left is group pressure. In fact the essence of politics is group pressure. The feature of the right that reduces group political cohesion is that if you don’t agree with them 100% they don’t want your help. The left OTOH is generally – “if you only agree with us on this issue, help us with this issue”. Ronald Reagan noted the tendency 30 some years ago. He only asked… Read more »

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You’d think from reading HuffPo that there was practically a consensus that the most desirable, attractive wife for truly “self-assured” and non-insecure men was a masculine, high-achieving, intimidating, opinionated woman. The equalist narrative claims as victories for itself even social phenomena that rely on ultimately more base, traditional motives, so keen is it to shoehorn and subsume all other truths into its own box. Case in point, all the fuss over the newest media darling, George Clooney’s Lebanese lawyer bride:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-houghton/the-new-trophy-wife_b_6207364.html

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@Thick_Biscuit I’m fucking two lawyers, a hot single mom, and occasionally an average EE chick right now. I don’t plan to keep any of them (all shitty LTR options for their own reasons), but a lawyer? The two I’m doing have to be neg’d in to a submissive state on such a regular basis that I don’t want to ever mess with a lawyer again. Seriously what guy would keep one of these SIWs? You’re unnecessary to the relationship as far as they’re concerned. My game with them has to be straight up relentless in its condescension, and neither of… Read more »

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Thick_Biscuit
December 16th, 2014 at 12:25 am

Well I wanted a strong beauty with brains. Got one too. To keep it together I have dominated her. For forty years so far. Four kids. Three handsome with brains. And a beauty with brains.

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Glenn, I had a tradcon say to me in the last 24 hours that Liberals are designed for easy times and Conservatives are designed for hard times. Progress. His take “Come the fall of man…” The usual we get around here. I said that at this stage it is very unlikely that we will return to a non-abundant state. I am awaiting his reply. He has been ranting on for years about values and how his are the only correct ones. I pointed out that his recent admission was counter to that. I am awaiting his reply. Further he said… Read more »

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@ M. Simon – There are many cases of group selection in the animal kingdom – this is how ants and termites came to dominate their worlds so thoroughly. Human’s put it on hyper-speed and our social development was largely driven by group selection.

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re: “a more universal set of rules”

Even if a model isn’t fitting reality well, the unmodeled behavior may not be modelable per se.

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Check this out. Can you imagine if a man did this? Fired his wife after divorcing her, and then moving the new woman before the wife can even move out?
http://nypost.com/2014/12/15/i-live-with-my-new-husband-and-my-ex/

She makes it sound so normal while she’s being so denigrating to her ex.

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jf12 December 16th, 2014 at 7:26 am The tree has too many intertwined branches and the intertwining is contingent. If I get your meaning correctly. Chaos plays a part. You can model it but you can’t predict it. As a tech guy you would get it. Navier-Stokes. ================ But that is true of all human behavior. You can have general rules of right and wrong but they are contingent on circumstances. Would you violate a law to prevent a death? Jewish law in fact commands it. I still think there can be rules. I aim to start with two: Divorce… Read more »

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Glenn
December 16th, 2014 at 11:20 am

There are two daughters involved. That situation sets a really bad example. If I was the husband I would have moved out. OTOH the c*nt might have deprived him of contact.

trackback

[…] If these women don’t understand he wouldn’t commit for this reason, their SMP value is not high enough to flip his commitment triggers, she may get a distorted view of her own SMP value by confusing men who she can have a casual sex relationship with as the same level she can have a committed relationship with, thus ignoring the 6 and 7 (or whatever her SMP value is) men whose attraction triggers she likely would flip. (Spoiler alert: Meanwhile these men who would commit are now checking out in record numbers because they are tired of playing a… Read more »

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Glen, you don’t really know who you are, do you? Identity crisis much? One moment you were an MGTOW with a YouTube channel and 22000 hits, now you think MGTOW is for losers… Look, your “intellectualism” at the end of the day counts for not much – it’s no “SO IMPRESSIVE” – and your insults to those who actually appreciate(ED) some of your informative posts only reflects on your character. YOU are playing up to – and playing right into – the needs and wants of the FI – and encouraging everyone else to follow your lead. Way to go.… Read more »

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@ J.J. – I don’t claim to be an intellectual. And I didn’t have an identity crisis, I evolved as any man who takes the RedPill does. I closed my channel down because it was mostly about criticizing MGTOW, in the sense that it’s mostly just a bunch of spergy, beta pussies who make a lifestyle out of being on the losing end of the mating game. The entire community is seething with passive aggressive man-children filled with rage. Don’t agree with me? Go watch Sandman’s videos and tell me that they are “A Daily Ten Minutes of Hate”. I… Read more »

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J.J.
December 16th, 2014 at 2:49 pm

There is no one best way to fight the FI – so far. People have opinions of the best way. Sometimes opinions change. And that is why the FI is whipping your ass. They are flexible and will adapt their methods as the situation changes. You will not.

I work with the lefties on some issues and their political acumen is something to behold.

“To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” ― Sun Tzu

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Supply and Demand, Bitchez!!

And when it comes to withholding the supply the “alphas” are the biggest betas… grin

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J.J.
December 16th, 2014 at 3:40 pm

Not getting any I see. Obviously the ladies don’t miss you. More for me. Plus by constant contact with the opposition I learn things unavailable by any other method.

In any case. My condolences.

BTW you might want to learn politics. Because passive resistance accomplishes nothing without politics. So if you would be so kind as to outline any part of the political plan you have developed so far. I’m sure we could all profit from that.

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As far as I can tell the MGTOW political plan is:

1. We withdraw from close contact.
2. A miracle happens
3. We win

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About a year into this red pill reality. Although, I subconsciously knew that something was off in my bones over 5 years ago. Anger, confusion, denial, introspection, mentality shifts, personality changes, internalized shame for falling for this ruse and acting it out, regret for not acting out my place in life, etc etc. I know feminism won’t win. You can’t out legislate nature. Society can’t function with women as primary drivers because only 5% of them take responsibility for their actions. They cut corners and are just all around pikers. Women are so risk adverse that if they ever achieved… Read more »

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@ Simon

“Not getting any I see”… Do you think I am “shamed” do you?

What do “alphas” and feminists have in common? They like to (try and) shame others into conformity.

theasdgamer
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@ JJ

Do you think I am “shamed” do you?

Since you attempted to “shame” alphas yourself, you are a hypocrite. Not to mention genetically irrelevant.

LiveFearless
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@M_Simon, you wrote I hang out with lefties a lot… In my experience the vast majority of them do it for free because they believe it to be in their interest. And you believe you are being bullied.That does not help. You are being out thought and out marketed. The bullying doesn’t come until they get laws passed. =============== You don’t even know what war you are fighting . How can you expect to win it? 1. Me too, they’re smart, you’re right, they do stuff for free. Except, they outsource most of the work since time freedom is the… Read more »

LiveFearless
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There are a lot of references to “how to fight” in this comment section.

Danger & Play has spent two months demonstrating this every day, in real time, on Twitter. It’s working. Watching his every tweet is like the ultimate FREE Mentorship Program on using the ‘enemies’ tactics and ‘facts and truth’ against them:
Mike Cernovich calls it:

GO FULL GORILLA

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M. Simon – “I work with the lefties on some issues and their political acumen is something to behold.”

Agreed they are truly gifted. But they are usually idiot savants who without politics are incapable of doing anything by themselves. Politics is their compensation for lacking actual substantial competence.

And to be clear I’m talking the pro and pro-am type political lefties who make it a vocation and not just a point of view.

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“Men aren’t dropping out of feminine-primary society, they’re adapting contingencies for it, learning workarounds, comparing notes, and a growing Red Pill awareness is at the heart of that adaptation, even for men who’ve never heard of it.” The same can be said for the women, who are becoming more aware that men are becoming more aware. The war of the sexes is real and it’s getting worse. The articles in all pro feminist magazines are giving the tips to gain and maintain primacy The most common mental fallacy primed into females is “Strong & Independent yet still wants Chivalry &… Read more »

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Badpainter December 16th, 2014 at 6:43 pm My point was that what I see in the manosphere is a total lack of interest in politics. Glenn presented something on the first page. I followed up with more stuff and instead of taking the hint and figuring out a political angle/program (to start) there was backbiting and a lack of interest that is almost total. It doesn’t matter that lefty/female plans are self defeating. A lot of people are going to get hurt in that defeat. To head them off at the pass or at least slow them down men need… Read more »

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bookooball
December 16th, 2014 at 7:55 pm

You do outline the essence of the problem. But I’m not so pessimistic. Should men care to rally the forces can be defeated.

So work on a rally point.

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LiveFearless
December 16th, 2014 at 6:37 pm

Did you know that lander had an RTX2000 series processor programmed in Forth? My favorite language. http://spacetimepro.blogspot.com/

BTW “Be Yourself” “Go Full Gorilla” is not a political plan. And men are being whipped by politics.

You don’t even know what war you are fighting . How can you expect to win it?

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