Dangers of the Blue Pill

This clip arrived in my Twitter stream a couple of days ago and I was going to dismiss it until I read through some of the comments about this guy on the ensuing Twitter thread. I’m going to give you my take on what I think is really going on here and then I’ll contrast this with how other viewers interpreted this incident. I was about to pass on this until the conversation really made this an interesting social experiment.

I have seen things like this before. Remember, for the better part of my ‘real job’ career I’ve been around a lot of people who are socializing and drinking. I watch guys pick up women, I watch women pick up guys, and I’ve seen a lot of couples argue in public. One thing that these couples all have in common (or at least 90% of them) is the guy trying his damnedest to get his girlfriend/wife to ‘come around to him’. As you may guess, the majority of these men were Betas who ‘just didn’t get it‘ and were appealing to their woman’s reason in order to resolve whatever it is that was making her turn off to him.

Again, most of these guys were oblivious to the fact that their trying to reason with her was only emphasizing the fact that he just didn’t get it, and that she was paired off with a guy who needed to be told how to get it.

The guy with the capacity to call a woman’s bluff with a confidence that implies she is to be worthy of him rather than the other way around is the Man to be competed for. Essentially the ‘chick speak’, ‘chick advice’ phenomenon is a shit test writ large on a social scale. And even your own mother and sisters are in on it, expecting you to ‘get it’; to get the message and see the challenge for what it really is, without overtly telling you.

She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.

Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

I have been this guy before. I’m not happy to admit that, but in my 20s, during the time I was with the BPD girl she made a habit of airing out her insane jealousy, insecurities and general relationship disorders as publicly as possible. When this becomes a way of life for a guy it changes you and particularly when it’s part of a woman’s personal neurosis. At that point in my life I had fallen very Beta (almost Omega by Vox’s standards) and I made all of the same mistakes I see guys in this predicament make when I’m working. I also know better than to try to correct these guys, because, like myself, they can get really hostile towards you or themselves when you point out the obvious to them.

So, a couple of caveats here; I don’t know for sure what’s transpired before or after this incident, and I have no idea if the guy is imbalanced (I’m being polite). It could be him, it could be her, likely it’s both, but I do know the patterns and I can see that the guy will resort to self-injury to make a point. This is a classic expression of Blue Pill Beta frustration with a girl.

The girl could be blameless and he’s just a nerdy Blue Pill Beta reacting to his frustration in not understanding how to resolve whatever it is that set him off with her. I’ve watched a lot of guys in the ‘Gamer’ social set who fall into this type. They buy into the “open communication is the key to everything” ideal that the Blue Pill told them women want, so when that ‘open communication’ is actually the reason for his problems he gets frustrated. Women are supposed to be reasonable, co-equal egalitarian agents in a relationship and when his appeals to that reason are ineffective, what’s left for the kid?

Again, this is me speculating. What we do know is his reaction. Imagine if this guy had actually broken the window and cut himself (and maybe a few bystanders) to ribbons. I mention this because it’s the reaction I’d expect from the Blue Pill mind that makes a guy believe that killing or hurting himself will in someway emphasize the seriousness with which he wants to resolve the issue he believes is crucial to his happiness with a woman. This is one of the main reasons I’ve always said kill the Beta before it kills you. There’s a very real danger that a Beta mindset will lead to you or someone else’s injury or death.

I’m actually inclined to think that the incident was his own doing though. She seems indifferent to him even after the head bang, but likely that might be due to embarrassment. She’s certainly frustrated with his attempts to get her to “listen to him”.

I’ve mentioned this before, but as women have become more self-assured about their own personal safety they feel more secure in provoking physical altercations. I understand that women love to say that they feel threatened by men all the time, or they have to always think about their personal safety no matter where they are, but I really don’t see this in real life – certainly not at my own promos. In fact it’s quite the opposite. I have seen women on many occasions (both drunk and sober) deliberately instigate confrontations that never needed to be started. All of them did so from a feeling of invulnerability because they know that no man would dare to actually assault her while she could wail on him with impunity. I think this is a new social trend with women today. They understand that if the guy she was hitting actually hit back there would be half a dozen men in the room who would beat his ass for raising a fist, much less his voice, to her. Women know the power that an opportunity to defend a woman has over men; it’s a confirmation of the old social contract that women still expect men to adhere to.

I’ve also seen women start altercations with other women in the same confidence that her man will fight the other woman’s man if the two of them get into a fight. They do so by appealing to their man’s Alphaness (or lack thereof) and having her back no matter what – even when she’s being stupid, catty or drunk. It’s kind of a new play on the ‘Lets you and him fight’ social convention, but if cooler heads prevail and one or both men pull their women away from the other they just look like pussies or less than men. Again, this is one more way women can socially reserve their bestowing or confirming manhood on a man.

Is any of this happening here? Likely no, but it’s important to remember these things in context with incidents like this. That’s important, because a few of the female readers of this Twitter thread seemed to think that, rather than his kid being a potentially terminal Beta, he had the potential to be an abuser. In fact this was their first impression. I guess I can sort of see this from a woman’s perspective, but I really think the Sisterhood Über Alles kicks in when women see something like this. Always take the woman’s side first.

I think women see this through the girl’s eyes. They understand what she’s going through in having the guy try to ‘logic’ her into understanding. They understand the girl’s frustration at just having to deal with this Beta.

https://twitter.com/yourpacrat/status/975455414568587264

I’ve probably done a really bad job at this, but my intent here is not to beat this guy up over this whole thing. When I first watched this clip I thought, “Yep, been there, done that”, and like this guy I was in my 20s when I did. It seems like this is something men must learn for themselves as part of their unplugging. I think one thing that makes unplugging more difficult today is that the stakes are so much higher when a guy just ‘doesn’t get it’. There are guys who never get past any of these Blue Pill trials because they make bad decisions that seemed logical or profound at the time and they have to live with the consequences for failing that Blue Pill trial.

I would bet that this guy is still with this girl today. Even with this going slightly viral I doubt he’s learned anything from the experience and I’m sure he’s still trying to figure out how to make this pudgy little HB 3 happy. His head bang against a window (which he had no idea was plexiglass) is really a manifestation of his own self-loathing. He wont hit her, he’ll hurt himself to make his point. This is what guys like this have been taught, to express his emotions, but in this instance that emotion is angst and frustration.

It’s easy to think that guys like this are too far gone. It’s easy for guys who’ve been Red Pill aware for a long time to dismiss Beta behaviors that they were also subject to, but have been so far removed from now that they think shit like this doesn’t happen.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

788 comments on “Dangers of the Blue Pill

  1. OBIT

    Neil Simon has better PR folks… 😉

    @ll

    Today’s game lesson… Preselection. And once you are in the swim, you are in… So what to do? FIND the hot girl, and befriend her… and then rotate through her hot friends. Hot girls go in clumps.

    https://the-hollywood-gossip-res.cloudinary.com/iu/s–oPODS6sp–/t_full/cs_srgb,f_auto,fl_strip_profile.lossy,q_auto:420/v1510856450/attachment/allison-mack-kristin-kreuk-split.png

    “Pat would say to the chosen woman, ‘Keith wants to spend some one on one time with you.’”

    And when you’re in a cult, you want to spend time with the leader.

    “Whatever they were doing with their lives, whether it was acting or business or a sport they were good at, they would be told Keith can help you if you spend some one on one time and she could set that up. He would meet them and do his seduction thing.”

    https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/11/allison-mack-was-recruited-into-sex-cult-by-smallville-costar-kr/

    https://nypost.com/2018/03/28/alleged-sex-cult-leader-used-smallville-stars-to-recruit-women-witness/

    “Lana” and “Chloe” went from starring in the popular, sugar sweet CW series to starring as ­Raniere’s top sex-slave recruiters, said Parlato.

    “Allison was used, as was Kristen, as a lure to bring in other women because of their celebrity status,” he said.

    SEE ALSO
    The dark cult with billionaires, stars, and allegations of sex slavery
    The dark cult with billionaires, stars, and allegations of sex slavery
    Kreuk severed ties with the group in 2012, soon ­after the Albany Times Union wrote of allegations that Raniere had sex with underage girls.

    But Mack stayed on and, according to Parlato, helped come up with the idea of sizzling the “brand” into initiates’ skin, near their groins, as they were held down. About 2-by-2-inches, the mark combined Raniere’s initials, KR, with Mack’s, AM.

    “Allison Mack expected to be arrested next,” he wrote Tuesday in artvoice.com, saying she is an unnamed co-conspirator in the Raniere case.

    “She started as a slave and she became a slave master,” Parlato claims. “Her nickname among defectors is ‘Pimp Mack.’”

    Ride or die girl made…

  2. Jews, for various reasons, did not really dabble in the literature of entertainment until the Romantic Period. That doesn’t mean they weren’t smart or were poor writers. They were simply interested in theology, philosophy and history, although they were not beyond poetry. See the most popular omnibus of all time.

    So we have Jewish writers like Philo of Alexandria, Josephus and Spinoza. Still read and criticised today.

    When we get to the romantic period and Jews taking up literary fiction we have the likes of Kafka and Proust. Their cultural heritage does seem to have given them a bit of an absurdist view of life, and so they have tended to excel at social satire and comedy and really began to hit their stride around the 1920s, that age when mass media entertainments really started to take off.

    And so you have Neil Simon, George Burns and Woody Allen. And if you haven’t read Peter Ustinov you probably should. You also have writers who can move between and blend the old traditions with the new entertainments, such as Alain de Botton.

    If they aren’t writing Shakespeare, they aren’t writing for Shakespeare’s audience either.

  3. — The Bard is clearly our best writer word for word, and his works form our top cultural referent, along with The Bible and Greek mythology. Peanuts is a distant fourth.

    — I WILL say one thing for Simon: Felix and Oscar are powerful dramatic archetypes. A compelling human dichotomy, a different take on Alpha/Beta or RP/BP

    — Judging by school curriculums, Arthur Miller clearly wins the prize as go-to 20th century dramatist. Sleeping with Marilyn Monroe clearly didn’t hurt, although she never let him brand her. Neil Simon is no doubt whipping up a warm and witty cult comedy as we speak

  4. This Keith Raniere is an interesting character. Reminds me of a guy from a mental hospital I met in my late teens that triggered my first Aha! moment. Intelligent, with a broad perspective on life, decoupled from the societal Matrix. Passionate and authentic in his beliefs. Mental hospitals are full of them.

    If you think about it, most people live in their conscious layer of logic and preconditioned assumptions… completely unaware why they think what they think… or how people and things make them feel and react. The forebrain doesn’t have to have access to the hindbrain… logic takes care of rationalizations anyway. The words and ideologies don’t have to be linked to any meaning/content in the brain…. which doesn’t have to have any relation to (be a representation of) the external world in the first place (but that’s another layer).

    People like Raniere have gone through this first awakening and perceive how words and logical concepts (forebrain content) are attached to sensual perceptions and how these relate to the emotional background (hindbrain content). These layers are more aligned in their case, but it doesn’t have to be fully conscious. In fact, it’s described in religious/mystical terms if more intuitive… and in scientific/rational terms if combined with a dose of self-awareness.

    So in that sense Raniere is well above the average Matrix crowd and sees they have a mess at the interface between the hindbrain and the forebrain. What sounds like a ‘woo woo’ to you is a combination of several things and one of them is the mere fact you cannot describe the world “beyond words” using words. He looks for metaphors, allegories, distant connections and throws them at his audience. This is powerful because it comes from his well aligned pool of thoughts and emotions, he just looks for words to express his intuitions. Chick crack. He’s not faking it, it’s natural. The thing is this is powerful also to him and consequently traps him in his god-like point of view… because it all is “truer” than any other thought process he has seen around him. He lives in his reality that brings more predictive and positive results in the real world than the realities of the Matrix crowd.

    This is why Sentient sees his frame/DPA traits and why fleezer’s spidey sense goes off at the same time: the guy is both Passionate and Authentic with a strong belief that all he says is The Truth, and a former-nerd trapped in his world who would not cope well with anything that his mental map doesn’t explain and doesn’t expose him to. He’s an alpha in his circles though.

    What makes him a bit different than ‘usual mystics’ is that his unconscious mind connected some dots for enough Red Pill truths to live by them too (patriarchal structure with women obeying his will etc.). He’s got sufficient DPA, confidence and non-BP morality to trigger enough attraction switches. But it will be easy to diagnose him as a creep with mental issues.

  5. “He’s an alpha in his circles though . . . But it will be easy to diagnose him as a creep with mental issues.”

    In his mindset he is the Secret King – with power. A gamma with the trappings of an alpha. Not a good combo.

  6. “Ride or die girl made…”

    really? she didn’t jump off the cliff though. instead she’ll talk. they all talk

    keith blew through 100 million of the dumb girls stash. he didn’t steal it and invest it (he sucked at that). he fucking blew it. i wonder how many $15,000 burgundies it took before he figured out he wasn’t the smartest guy in the room after all

    keith dabbled with the underage. this means he has self control issues. weak and likely inexperienced. again, get pussy your own age as soon as you can. it’s the only time you can and the window closes quickly. after that you’re in schneider town and that’s no place to be and one area where you should obey the no trespassing sign

    keith recruited over the hill washed up actresses who used affilition with the cult to explain why they weren’t getting good offers anymore when the real reason was they were OLD. keith was nothing more than a convenient hamster rationalization event

    his “ride or die” girls were established working hollywood actresses in their mid 20s. they had already been through the ringer more than once and there is no way to fully retrain that kind of dog, as proofed by him spending last night in a cell. get ’em early or don’t bother

    keith = owen if he had made it in hollywood and got some of that sweet sweet bronf cash

    keith = big mike if people gave a shit about weed and he made it big and got that cash

    keith = james arthur “sure I know how to construct a sweat lodge” ray if he had a bit darker bent or at least admitted it

    the first thing keith should have done with that 100 million was buy some fucking influence and get some real blackmail material. instead he installed a keylogger on big bronf’s computer and grabbed some worthless emails from hillary

    a perfect example of how not to run a counterintel op

    i’m wondering if he gets put in minimum security, because if he goes general population at a regular federal pen with the other “sex offenders” he’s not going to like it very much. not at all

  7. IRL – in my estimation, with this Keith Raniere, it’s about failure to appropriately process and reconcile the subjective/objective dichotomy dilemma, that each human is faced with, very early on. And that’s not uncommon. It’s the hallmark of Cluster B.

    It’s not authentic because it’s rooted in avoidance of existential fear. Authenticity on the other hand is about managing existential fear. Success that way (in managing existential fears) results in masculine principles (penetrating) or feminine ego-disintegration (receptivity). Note the polarity. Self-agency operates in both spheres, …… if that is a problematic statement for some ….. note that, by definition, polarities are eternally irresolvable (i.e. – in the sense that each pole, by necessity, fundamentally always implies the other) ergo self-agency operates across the entire human gender-polaric nature.

    Keith Raniere = not alpha. Entertaining that speculation leads towards blind alleys and cul-de-sacs of thought that provide no benefit (but be my guest, explore those dead ends for yourself and make your own determinations).

  8. “keith dabbled with the underage. this means he has self control issues. weak and likely inexperienced.”’

    Errol Flynn did it, got charged, and walked. Then continued to do it without being charged again.

    But then Flynn was charming and popular. Keith is not. I’m not as confident as Sentient that Keith will walk.

  9. keith blew through 100 million of the dumb girls stash. he didn’t steal it and invest it (he sucked at that). he fucking blew it.

    Now now fleezer, keep an abundance mentality. Investing is hard work, much prefer people handing me fat stacks…

    keith dabbled with the underage. this means he has self control issues.

    We’re not falling into that trap are we? Age appropriate girls… Curious comment though, weren’t you into girls with braces?

    keith recruited over the hill washed up actresses

    Perhaps, he also recruited early 20’s in vogue ones…

    Reactions from guys are as interesting as the story here. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Right now i’m giving him a 40% chance of walking.

  10. “Errol Flynn did it, got charged, and walked. Then continued to do it without being charged again.”

    but…. 2018. poe used to fuck his underage first cousin, right? shit done changed, unless you’re protected. so in a way shit hasn’t changed. all that matters is being protected

    “But then Flynn was charming and popular. Keith is not. I’m not as confident as Sentient that Keith will walk.”

    he has zero family connections and zero value to offer in a trade. he has no leverage. epstein knew to have cameras everywhere

    keith was not trained by mossad. keith is fucked

  11. “Curious comment though, weren’t you into girls with braces?”

    absolutely. always will be

    me: “so you’re a thousand miles from home, living on your own for the first time, you still have braces and you’re thinking about breaking up with your long distance high school boyfriend?”

    her: “uh huh”

    me: “I’ve seen these kinds of cases before. i’m going to tell you your future now”

    very different from…

    creepy uncle joe: “so, you’re 13, huh? no serious guys until 30” (awkward laugh from everyone)

  12. “It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.”

    definitely. you post awesome shit where everyone learns, whether they intend to or not

  13. We’re already seeing that serious TRMers are better equipped to thoughtfully analyze Keith the Kult Guy and his harem than anything you will probably see from the mainstream media.

    — Based on my experience in that (increasingly feminized) media, I expect that the vast majority of what people get to see and hear will be from the wimmens’ point of view. I know that’s obvious, but funny to watch.

    .– I’d also argue the main factor driving this as a big national story is the brandings. That’s all. The rest just justifies filling space. And yet we know that brandings are not that far downriver from other things women do to themselves or willingly pay to have done.

    — The other phrase guaranteed to get editors juices flowing is “sex slave.” And yet we know that this mind-numbed, blame-everyone-else attraction is not really so unusual, depending on the object of that attraction

  14. “We’re already seeing that serious TRMers are better equipped to thoughtfully analyze Keith the Kult Guy . . .”

    I have an unfair advantage.

    “I expect that the vast majority of what people get to see and hear will be from the wimmens’ point of view.”

    There will likely be more testifying on his behalf than against, although they likely won’t be as prominently displayed in the media. But the jury will see that.

    “I’d also argue the main factor driving this as a big national story is the brandings. That’s all.”

    Yes, it’s shocking. SHOCKING I say. And yet, as I have demonstrated, you only need to go to Wikipedia to find out that women will pay to get branded with a cauterizing pen, to be given identity with Euler, or Keith, or whoever. It’s an actual thing.

    And a woman who doesn’t look like she clomps around in combat boots and can simply pronounce Euler correctly gets a bonus point from me.

  15. Speaking of creepy…

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd8-Rfpnty3/?taken-by=carlosdoc77

    Check out playa’s post to this girl…

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bgbbz0sAMcE/?taken-by=camille_ringoir

    carlosdoc77@camille_ringoir I open my eyes and awake seeing your beauty, with the light of your eyes I see the path traveled, illuminated, rugged, jumping high fences, impenetrable and blind … my mind thinks of those memories, of your beauty. Madness of innocent youth, thinking, is what you have, The happy years I live watching your beauty, Only you are: The radiant sun of dawn … The beautiful and subtle star of a beautiful dream …

    oi vey… Not woo.

  16. @kfg
    Took me awhile to put Euler together with that scary-fication pic you posted. Is this actually a thing? Can I get women to join my cult if I pose as a 17th century Swiss mathematician?

  17. “Speaking of creepy…”

    possibly the face of the reaper himself

    my take on his woo

    “I open my eyes and awake seeing your juicy parts that i ravage, with the light of my cock, I see the path so well traveled, illuminated, rugged, jumping high fences, so very penetrable and wide-eyed … my mind thinks of nothing, especially your fading beauty. Madness of innocent youth, fresh holes, is what you have, The happy years I live watching my explotation your beauty, Only I am: The radiant sun of dawn … The beautiful and subtle star of a beautiful dream …”

  18. @O.B.I.T.
    And yet we know that brandings are not that far downriver from other things women do to themselves or willingly pay to have done.

    Didn’t PUA Justin Wayne Dating have girls tattooing his name in his videos? Can’t find them now, he’s taken them down…

    @Sentient

    The creep thing… Yeah, not sure if that’s the word that might be used. It’s all about reframing and post factum hamster rationalizations though. Whatever works to save wiminz… Sick mind of some sort? Easy label if they link him to the sorority girls circle…

  19. “Took me awhile to put Euler together with that scary-fication pic you posted.”

    Dude, it’s his identitiy (and yes, I am going to make every crappy play on that that I can).

    “Can I get women to join my cult if I pose as a 17th century Swiss mathematician?”

    Not in my experience (they’re into Victorian), but, ya know, pics, so I guess it happened.

  20. Dude, it’s his identitiy (and yes, I am going to make every crappy play on that that I can).

    It is a cute way to work all the angles, for sure.

  21. “Can I get women to join my cult if I pose as a 17th century Swiss mathematician?”

    Anything is possible but when I start my cult I will not be posing as my 18/19th century German mathematician avatar because that will probably result in a cult that looks like this:

    http://www.piedpiper.com/#team

    Not the result you want.

  22. I bet y’all dime to dollar if Kieth takes a pokey trip it’ll not be sex related. It’ll be extortion or tax avoidance or mail fraud or something mundane but has teeth.

    The opening salvo has to be sex steeped to enrage the BP public with terms like “sex slave” “branding”. Then they’ll dail it back for prosecution.

    Think Clinton and perjury…not sex in Oval office.

  23. @CFGauss
    I do see a couple of women hiding toward the back of that group shot.
    Probably not even math-cult material though.

    Wonder if there’s a probability-‘n-statistics cult

  24. “Raniere is currently in federal custody and faces up to life in prison after being charged with sex trafficking and conspiracy to commit forced labour.

    Known as “Vanguard” to followers – Raniere is accused of having a “decades’ long history of abusing women and girls” – including “repeated sexual encounters with multiple teenage girls” as young as 12, according to the document.”

    ouch

    did he even know the judges, da office, investigators of eastern district NY? did he know anybody? not enough to just know them. gotta have dirt. good dirt. and this guy was gonna start his own country? lol. i wouldn’t trust him with organizing the chicken coop

    look at carlos danger. he had that fucking insurance folder which is why he’s locked up instead of exploded. keith has no such file. bye bye, vanguard.

    like kfg said, gamma with mind of the king is no bueno

  25. “Wonder if there’s a probability-‘n-statistics cult”

    I believe that’s rolled into the “I Fucking Love Science” cult, but bear in mind that they don’t actually do anything of the kind, so no actual actuarial talk if you know what’s good for you.

    But if you can spout some bullshit about Bayesian inference and pull some numbers out of your ass that purport to support their a priori positions, you’re golden.

  26. ““They induct the women into this secret group by telling them it is an all women’s group – they don’t tell the women that Raniere is actually in charge.”

    aka “surprise, i have a dick”

    is “surprise, i have a dick” a typically advisable approach to pickup?

    no. and for good reason

    thanks for teaching today’s lesson, vanguard

  27. @kfg, am I to understand you’re a GG fan?

    I married one of them. Not that she likes football but purple Jesus can always be sold to her in the fall

  28. Those women knew Raniere was in charge. They were being inducted into his harem.

    That how solopsism can work to men’s benefit too. It allows women, at the time, to justify anything, even three ways, accepting men’s “bad behavior”, branding…

    Fleezer, I was that guy you described who hadn’t seen much sexuality beyond porn before 18. Hadn’t thought about cult leader hasa job but you are correct. I was perplexed, iny early 20’s watching girls tribbing crab style on the Fayetteville, NC dance floor, everyone watching.

    I was more curious that they were exhibitionist about it and how I could get in between that and asked myself… why not just fuck her in her apt?

  29. Some good reads
    https://blacklabellogic.com/2018/03/29/yes-no-maybe/
    Accept everything just the way it is.
    Do not seek pleasure for its own sake.
    Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling.
    Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world.
    Be detached from desire your whole life long.
    Do not regret what you have done.
    Never be jealous.
    Never let yourself be saddened by a separation.
    Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself or others.
    Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love.
    In all things have no preferences.
    Be indifferent to where you live.
    Do not pursue the taste of good food.
    Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need.
    Do not act following customary beliefs.
    Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful.
    Do not fear death.
    Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age.
    Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.
    You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honor.
    Never stray from the way.
    https://andreian.com/musashi-21-rules

  30. @Agent P: “am I to understand you’re a GG fan?”

    I’d have to know what it is first.

    “Not that she likes football . . .”

    Can’t say that I do either. For any meaning of the word football.

    ” . . . purple Jesus . . .”

    But I know enough about it to make a Bayesian inference that this has something to do with the Viqueens, and despite the above I used to prepare the newsletter of a GB fan club ( a gig’s a gig) for a friend who is a shareholder — so the social niceties compel me to recoil in horror.

  31. Interesting, “creep” used wrt Raniere in three different contexts:

    Jeane MacIntosh, New York Post, October 2010:
    Creepy cultist’s ‘killing’ confession
    Raniere’s stunning statement comes about 7 minutes into an 8 minute recording of a creepy sit-down with two women whose faces have been shielded on the tape.

    https://frankreport.com/2017/09/06/mexican-teens-left-clifton-park-referred-to-raniere-as-creepy/
    “The girls were completely grossed out by Keith”‘ said a source. “They felt Keith was a ‘lech” [leech?] and he was creepy. They felt he had sexual intentions. They told their parents. Whether he did more, I don’t know. I know that he has been conscious of age of consent violations since at least 2014. “

    Janon Fisher, Daily News, March 2018:
    The creepy male leader of a cult-like upstate “women-only mentorship group” in which the members were branded with his initials and pressured into having sex with him was arrested Monday on federal sex trafficking charges, Brooklyn federal prosecutors said.

    Whatever fits the narrative I suppose…

  32. Speaking of creepy, a Florida newspaper is reporting that:
    “Teenage girls, women and even older men are writing to the Parkland school shooter and sending photographs — some suggestive — tucked inside cute greeting cards and attached to notebook paper with offers of friendship and encouragement. Groupies also are joining Facebook communities to talk about how to help the killer.

    The attraction of women to prison bad boys echoes the fascination with killers like notorious cult leader Charles Manson. Lyle and Erik Menendez, the Beverly Hills brothers convicted in 1994 of murdering their parents, attracted a pair of brides while spending life in prison. So-called “Bundyphiles” sent bags of mail to Ted Bundy, the serial rapist-murderer who was electrocuted on Florida’s Death Row in 1989.”

  33. So the larger point is that in each of these cases, the media (that means women) decide if the villain is to be portrayed as “creepy” or “charismatic.” There’s not much in-between

  34. Rugby – nice link re the Quintus Curtius article. Speaks to some of the ideas I have recently outlined in this thread (and the “Transactional vs. Validational Sex” thread):

    1) You can’t really untangle this self-agency thing, with respect to the gender differences, without knowing about the differing motivations. In very simple terms, men are more-so motivated to seek respect from others (the measure of which will roughly align with the measure of self-respect they practice onto themselves personally). On the other hand, in very simple terms, women are more-so motivated to seek security from others (the measure of which will roughly align with the measure of respect they show others, which in turn, the measure of which, will roughly align with the measure of self-respect they practice onto themselves personally).

    2) As such, the practice of self-agency (self-agency = the belief in the personal power to make meaningful non-deterministic decisions which therefore implies personal responsibility for the consequences of said decisions), is tempered by one’s own motivations and that of others.

    3) As such, self-agency cannot be operated as intended (‘intended’ by evol-design by way of the non-design of fitness selection, …… or God, ….. or pretty much any potent metaphysics, ….. so let’s not argue on that front please, for the time being, because that will tend to obfuscate the point I am otherwise hoping to make here) without the ‘seeking of the many perspectives’, inclusive of being intimately familiar with one’s own ever-changing milieu of perspectives that inform one’s core perspectives, ….. which points to the indispensability of self-awareness (same as I said here at the RM blogspot awhile back, maybe it was 2 years ago – not sure precisely).

    4) Enter the precepts of alpha (as I outlined in the “Transactional vs. Validational Sex ” thread): DHA (dominance hierarchy awareness) –> superior Frame selection –> behaviors/actions –> Alpha. (with the DHA concept as more precisely defined in terms of MPoO dynamic, as per the modified definition of the MPoO dynamic that I provided in the “Transactional vs. Validational Sex” thread).

    Note that Quintus Curtius uses the looser term ‘boundaries’ in a way that harkens the more focused term ‘DHA’, and that his article can be better understood if ‘boundaries’ is replaced with ‘DHA’.

  35. Rugby – one way of looking at this:

    Is the woman, even the most beautiful woman, worthy of what she, as a woman, more-so seeks – protection? Hold her accountable to that worthiness (as per the dynamic I outlined above), or, with respect to her continuing failure with respect to that accountability test, perhaps, it is better to withdraw, but each man must make these personal determinations on his own. Such is life. These misunderstandings and hard choices inform the deeply tragic aspects of human life. But in the end, perhaps it’s true, that you cannot really save any one woman from herself.

  36. Some thoughts… triggered by Mystery and a 52 Vincent.

    You may know Kant, he was a regular for a while at Le Chateau and Sedfast. 26ish… NYC. Dove into Game and focused on Tinder for a while. Within a year he had fucked 100 girls from it, was hitting 20 a month. His Tinder guide is HOF post on Sedfast.

    His model was meet at a bar within a block of his apartment, have one drink, say something like “we can drink cheaper at my place” and bounce her to a corner store, pick up a six pack, then bounce to his place. His place was set up, he arranged everything so she had to sit on the bed, he just tapped his keyboard and mood music played. They had half a beer and it was on. Very tight model.

    I recall he also would play music himself from time to time. He was an indie rocker. He said that “Tangled Up in Blue” was a slam dunk song. Back top Mystery and demonstrating or Displaying High Value… I can see it… Acoustic, skillful, broad, accessible but still offbeat in 20XX.

    I have no musical ability. I wish a did. Some rhythm, but can’t really sing, or play anything at all. In some respects this is probably good because I would be insufferable with talent.

    I’ve thought this song would kill in a similar setting and for the same purpose… 1952 Vincent Black Lightning by Richard Thompson.

    The lyrics are interesting from a game perspective:

    Says Red Molly, to James, “Well that’s a fine motorbike.
    A girl could feel special on any such like.”

    [IOI… A2]

    Says James, to Red Molly, “My hat’s off to you.
    It’s a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952.

    [IOI met with an IOI, A3]

    And I’ve seen you on the corners and cafes, it seems.
    Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme.”

    [Concur… KRYP-TO-NITE… but note the structure of the song you can sub in your subjects hair color 🙂 ]

    And he pulled her on behind,
    And down to Boxhill,
    They’d Ride.

    [He pulls her on… compliance testing, leading, bouncing, isolating…]

    Says James, to Red Molly, “Here’s a ring for your right hand.
    But I’ll tell you in earnest I’m a dangerous man;
    For I’ve fought with the law since I was seventeen.
    I’ve robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine.

    [Pulled from the headlines… chicks dig dangerous jerks]

    And now I’m twenty-one years, I might make twenty-two.
    And I don’t mind dyin’ but for the love of you.
    But if fate should break my stride, then I’ll give you my Vincent, To Ride.”

    [MPoO in check… he’s not stopping…]

    “Come down Red Molly, ” called Sargent McQuade.
    “For they’ve taken young James Aidee for Armed Robbery.
    Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside.
    Oh, come down, Red Molly, to his dying bedside.”
    When she came to the hospital, there wasn’t much left.
    He was runnin’ out of road. He was runnin’ out of breath.
    But he smiled, to see her cry.
    And said, “I’ll give you my Vincent.
    To Ride.”

    [chicks dig emotions]

    Said James, “In my opinion, there’s nothing in this world
    Beats a ’52 Vincent and a Redheaded girl.
    Now Nortons and Indians and Greavses won’t do.
    Oh, they don’t have a Soul like a Vincent ’52.”

    [Little earned validation]

    Well he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys.
    He said, “I’ve got no further use…for these.
    I see Angels on Ariels in leather and chrome,
    Swoopin’ down from Heaven to carry me home.”
    And he gave her one last kiss and died.
    And he gave her his Vincent.
    To Ride.

    [Live fast, die young, leave a good looking corpse… In other words… leave on the high note.. Alpha Widow Status = Made. MPoO and Mission intact]

    Three versions of the song. Pay attention to the pacing, the emotion, the focus of the performers. Remember this when you are thinking what DHVing is…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kJdrfzjAg

    The original. For the virtuoso player and singer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrGOs1a1lOk

    My favorite. Powerful, raw masculinity… Little shout out to Troy for kfg, keeping with the thread. Bonus points if you get to the end and spot the switch flipping “off”. Remember that it was flipped “on” as well. Hit your DHV story the same way. In earnest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlylarCRayI

    Simpler, pubbier example. Same pacing, structure…

    Be interested if any of you musical types gave it a go… field reports. Scribbs, Silver Fox, Rollo? etc. etc…

  37. “I’ve thought this song would kill in a similar setting and for the same purpose… ”

    I pull redheads right out of the crowd to open me with that one.

    The Black Lightning was only made to order. I think they made nearly several 52s. My favorite bicycle engineer (formerly of the Porsche F1 team and HP hard drive team) used to own one. His impression was that the gearbox was a clusterfuck.

  38. kfg – well there you go then, and of course you do. Why do I suspect you hop on one to leave the show? 😉

    “There is a fundamental difference, however, between the old Vincents and the new bred of superbikes. If you rode the Black Shadow at top speed for any length of time, you would almost certainly die. That is why there are not many life members of the Vincent Black Shadow Society. ” – Hunter S Thompson

    http://www.vincent-hrd.co.uk/hst.html

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/3d/18/513d1856fe4d0b763c4deba350b52cd7.jpg

    https://img0.etsystatic.com/018/0/8209737/il_570xN.475559938_b8co.jpg

  39. So, went over this thing like the Zapruder film, partially because there was so little to go on. It would have been nice if the the guy had posted anything regarding the content of the convo before the guy went Sonny Bono into the glass pane.

    SO, what can we deduce…

    We have the guy standing in front of the chick on a busy sidewalk. Obviously, they had been walking and having a disagreement which was getting nowhere, and the guy’s frustration has been mounting. The glass pane thing was just the culmination of that frustration, ala him getting in front of her to stop her and force a confrontation.

    Whatever he was trying to get through to her, he felt he was being completely logical about it, to no avail, and she was ignoring him or seeming to be deliberately obstinate. Thus, he needs to stop her dead in her tracks and ‘deal with the issue.”.

    If you look carefully at the top of vid, while he is in front of her (albeit a little to the side) and directly trying to engage with her, her eyes are NOT on him and her head is not directed toward. She is looking past him, down the sidewalk. He might want to engage, but she doesn’t. She is acting like she is pretending he is not there.

    You can’t see her face the whole time due to the camera, but she doesn’t ever seem to look at him at first, but instead raises her eyes in frustration, up to the sky, a signal of not wanting to engage, but rather seeking escape from the whole convo.

    When she is apparently forced to engage, against her will, her response is a guttural cry, like an animal, also of frustration.

    Based on her mouth movements, I thought it MIGHT be she was saying something like “Oh my fucking GOOOOOOODDD!!!”. The first part is under her breath, but it culminates in that banshee like scream. This is the first time in the incident she seems to even look at him. Upon further listening, it just seems like a animal like scream, although the sentiment seems close to OMFG.

    Whatever the sound was, it is clear her frustration level has crested, and the sound is meant to convey “Fuck off! I am not interested in hearing it!” in no uncertain terms.

    I would also posit there is some element of social manipulation here in that a woman screaming like that in an obvious confrontation with a guy would put pressure on the guy to back down/off. Not saying this is even conscious. If you notice, the scream part comes when he raises his hand for some reason (not to strike her). That scream sounds semi-pained, meant to garner attention and to bring scrutiny to Sonny’s actions.

    “Dude! What are you doing to that chick that she would make that kind of sound?”

    So, Sonny, having tried his best to make his point, having thought somehow his logic was irrefutable, his frustration cresting after what we can assume was prolonged argument, gets a near feral scream in response to his attempt at reasoned argument. He may suddenly comprehend that she is completely NOT interested in what he has to say or will under no circumstances, accept it, no matter the merits. At some level, he might also realize how her scream was painting him as some sort of abuser on a public street.

    So, with all that in mind, now we look at his window diving response which is IMMEDIATE as her screams hits a crescendo.

    Here are a few thoughts here…

    1) It’s sheer frustration and anger culminating in having his logic circuits blown because he CANNOT understand how or why she won’t understand/accept what he is saying. Just like one might punch a wall or slam a fist down when suddenly enraged/pissed off, Sonny takes it step further, TRYING to demonstrate to Cher how utterly pissed off and frustrated he is, because words ain’t working! So much for communication.

    2) It’s a displaced anger/aggression thing. His hindbrain may have felt like smacking her, a problematic response on multiple levels, so he displaces it to himself, a more socially acceptable target, one that won’t get him jumped on by other guys and arrested. The window thing also distances himself from her so he is not tempted to smack her. Again, this may all be subconscious.

    3) Related to #2, and bear with me, Sonny’s response may have been an attempt to signal that he was NOT a threat to this woman, and in fact, by running full long into a window and bashing his head on it, he attempts to seize the appearance of victim, or at the very least, convey he is not threatening Cher. Think about it…his self-inflicted injury and pain also knocks him to the ground. No threat. People’s reactions around him signal they understand he has become the (pathetic) locus of sympathy.

    When he gets up, what does he do?

    He explains to her, but also to the crowd, what the issue was that caused the confrontation.

    “This chick is driving me crazy with her shit! We’ve all been there. Bitches crazy, amrite?”

    4) Related to #3, the stunt was meant to elicit sympathy from her, something which based on reaction, failed miserably. I don’t hear Cher express any sort of empathetic response. That’s possibly important below.

    Now, notice that as he gets up, she the continues to walk ahead, past him, tossing him a look but plowing on ahead as she was when he presumably had the temerity to get in her way. He now gets up and falls in alongside her as he further explains the issue.

    Based on the body language, and what I can see of her expression, I am trying to parse out what her thought are.

    For one, she not only is she lacking any empathy for him (which I KIND of get, as he did a dumb-ass thing), but it seems like she feels like he check-mated her on the White Knight play she pulled with the scream.

    Then again, she managed to restore things to an equilibrium where she gets to plod on ahead like she was before he got in her way and she definitely seems like she STILL has no goddamn interest in what he has to say.

    Now, none of the above excuses or justifies what Sonny did. It was a bad move for all sorts of reasons one does not have to enumerate.

    So, what should have Sonny done?

    Hard to tell based on the lack of knowledge of the larger issue, but if she was truly being a pain-in-ass the ass and obstinate over bullshit, instead of turning around and running into a glass wall, he should have just turned around and walked. And kept walking. Not say a word. Think of somewhere else to be and go there. It was Saint Patty’s day.

    If she said nothing, keep walking to where you would rather be.

    If she said something, flip her the bird, or give her a snarky wave bye, then keep walking.

    When I was younger, I would try to reason with the unreasoning too, and while I would not have driven myself into a glass pane, many guys do other self-destructive things over women which come in all sorts of flavors. Give Sonny credit for being so open and flagrant with his.

    It’s only with age, wisdom and RP that one realizes it ain’t goddamn worth it, particularly over what appears to be a HB 4?

    1. What is your awareness of women being empathetic to men? In my estimation, there is not a whit. Perhaps this is the evolutionary speedbump.

  40. @Sentient: “Why do I suspect you hop on one to leave the show?”

    I’m a Yamaha two stroke tingle sort of guy, but I don’t currently own a motorbike and probably won’t.

    Unless I find some old lady just looking for someone to get that cherry, red RZ350 Kenny Roberts replica the hell out of her garage. Then I’m a goner.

  41. Sentient

    My first bike was a 1970 triumph 650 that had been converted into a chopper. I rode it around while gathering parts to ” un-convert ” it back to original. My Honda was more reliable but less fun.

    But in it’s chopper form, the triumph attracted an assload of female and law enforcement attention, sometimes simultaneously.

    Bikes, cars and guitars.

  42. @Sentient
    Mystery and demonstrating or Displaying High Value…

    In Field Reports, you linked Amadeus. Ever watched Immortal Beloved?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNq_G5QxVhk

    Music as a display of value, emoting, leading, imposing own frame:

    Ludwig van Beethoven: Music is… a dreadful thing. What is it? I don’t understand it. What does it mean?
    Anton Felix Schindler: It – it exalts the soul.
    Ludwig van Beethoven: Utter nonsense. If you hear a marching band, is your soul exalted? No, you march. If you hear a waltz, you dance. If you hear a mass, you take communion. It is the power of music to carry one directly into the mental state of the composer. The listener has no choice. It is like hypnotism. So, now… What was in my mind when I wrote this? Hmm? A man is trying to reach his lover. His carriage has broken down in the rain. The wheels stuck in the mud. She will only wait so long. This… is the sound of his agitation. “This is how it is… ,” the music is saying. “Not how you are used to being. Not how you are used to thinking. But like this.”

    BTW, LOL’ed at this: “I cannot hear them, but I know they are making a hash of it” (repeating someone else’s canned material vs. Game).

    Also:

  43. IRL

    “He made me see the world in an entirely new light.”

    I’ve not seen that but will. Thanks.

    On Beethoven and passion… A Room With a View. Great RP movie.

  44. Kfg

    Man, you have very specific and expensive tastes. Bravo.

    This is why the dwindling art of coach building will be a great loss. I’d wager most of the surviving maserattis are sequestered in museums now.

    Hey!! I have a pair of English wheels and a bunch of Louvre presses and wooden mallots and sandbags and leading tools….. Lol, I juuussstttt don’t have quite enough skill. But we have time.

  45. Depends on a man’s exposure to women in general. If we are only speaking of dating or solely looking for sexual encounters, then I’d agree with you 85%. You have to go through hundreds of women over years to form a solid opinion, and not just sexually either, to gain a decent measure of ” women’s ” empathy.

    Individual experience will vary, but I find plenty of women are indeed capable of empathy. The numbers aren’t gigantic though.

    If you want to really see something, broaden your horizons and deal with women from varying social backgrounds and/or cultures. Guys tend to have a ” type ” that they prefer, and then base their entire opinions of women in general from that tiny sample size.

    Bad science.

  46. “Man, you have very specific and expensive tastes.”

    And it annoyed the hell out of my mother when I was a kid. She couldn’t fool me. I had the eagle’s eye and could pick out design and quality from a mile away. And once I’d seen it I was never happy with the crap we could afford.

    On the other hand, I’m not fooled by price and fashion, so I don’t go throwing money away on expensive crap.

  47. “What is your awareness of women being empathetic to men? In my estimation, there is not a whit. Perhaps this is the evolutionary speedbump.”

    It’ sorta the wrong question though. Best a man can hope for, I think, is receiving a woman’s respect. Empathy? Well – women aren’t men. So how are they gonna relate? If they try, they are gonna relate through projection (projecting their own concerns around security) onto a man’s situation (thusly the woman is thereby framing it in her mind like the man is a little boy), and extend false empathy around that (loss of security), but …. that is usually a secondary consideration for a man, very much secondary to a man’s concerns around loss of respect.

    There probably is no usefulness in any male butthurtness with respect to women’s lack of real empathy for men. Look at it this way – the real deep emotion that women more-so tend to feel around concerns for security – can a man really relate to that? No not really. The kneejerk masculine perspective in such eventuality is – ‘jeez woman – get over it, get over the obvious concern for your well being, …. me, me me, ….. blah, blah, blah’, then, as a countervailing male perspective, the man very often will kinda go on to extend a false empathy as well, by way of framing it like she be a little child that needs protection (which is a play on ‘respect’). But that’s a mistake. She is not a little child. Yet nevertheless she has real concerns about protection around her personal well being.

    Birds and the bees, (or cats are not dogs as Sentient is fond of pointing out).

    1. @wild man

      Nevertheless, women are in denial in regard to male vulnerability. Becoming aware would disrupt their illusion of safety. In general, men reach the threshold of death by heartache faster than women, who have evolved to endure more emotional pain.

  48. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2e5Siu8E1k

    I first heard the name Beethoven when I was seventeen. I had heard that his music aroused such passion… as to be dangerous. Some thought it obscene and unsuitable for the young.

    Countess Anna Marie Erdody: He was too good for them. His fire… offended their small brains.
    Anton Felix Schindler: But not you.
    Countess Anna Marie Erdody: I could match his temperament.
    Anton Felix Schindler: You gave him rooms at your palace?
    Countess Anna Marie Erdody: I wanted him… near me.

    Anton Felix Schindler: Was he your lover?
    Countess smiles.

    And yet… ONEitis… like many others:
    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51i5CeP-D2L.jpg

    @Sentient
    On Beethoven and passion… A Room With a View. Great RP movie.

    Thanks, added to my list.

  49. Kenny’s a talented kid. He might make something of himself someday.

    A week ago was the anniversary of Mike the Bike’s death. Monday is his birthday. No MV Agustas around, or even Hondas, but there’s a Ducati down the street I could lay a flower by.

  50. What people can’t do, even when they are supposed to be too old.

    Waves to crowd midway through the corkscrew. Gets off the bike, remarks that it’s running rich. Couldn’t get the speed he wanted out of it. “It’s real safe, let’s put it that way”.

    LOL. Old men are a pain.

  51. Still one of my favorite battles on the track ever. Butt-puckeringly dangerous driving and determination to win. I can’t wait to go watch MotoGP at CotA this month. I’ve never gotten to watch it live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY9mrKR5SkA

    My current sport machine:

    https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/2017-ducati-supersport/2017-Ducati-Supersport-S-05.jpg

    Had it out on Lime Creek Road with a local sport bike club a few weeks back. It’s by no means the fastest sport bike on the road at all. I even had the factory bags on it. However, was actually tailgating a bit on the Panigale 1299 (at about double my horsepower) in front of me and the Hayabusa (also double my horsepower) behind me wound up running off the road trying to keep up with how I would shoot out of turns. The ‘busa rider wound up sitting down and chatting with me about how I was able to move so fast and was shocked that unlike him (or the chick that was on the Panigale in front of me) I’ve never done a track day on a bike.

    On bikes even more than in cars it’s almost 100% about the driver. Know your vehicle, know the road, know the physics, and know yourself. I’ve got a lot of track riders pushing me to hit the track now. Not a bad reputation to have as the new guy. “I dunno who the fuck he is, but he shows up on this underpowered Ducati bagger and starts whipping track riders on local roads.” Feels good to be certain you’re good at something.

  52. Still one of my favorite battles on the track ever.

    !!! I crashed just from watching the video…

  53. My son took his 250 sport bike out Friday night. Dark along a empty frontage road. He was clearing his mind, he tells me.

    At 45 mph a deer runs in front, he swerves-misses, looks for another and yes, another bolts in front, he t-bones it, loses control, dumps the bike, tumble-rolls 60 ft along the pavement.

    His adrenaline was so high he couldn’t find neutral to get it going again and thought it was shot. Calming down he rides it home, I had the trailer hitched but waited for him to come home one I

    Mrs. goes wild hugging him. He suffered skinned knees, flank elbow.

    All the gear, all the time. He had on Redwings, thick leather padded suede jacket, helmet (which oddly suffered not a scratch), deer skin gloves.

    He said arriving home: “Dad I survived a full speed crash on a motorcycle and I’m fine and the bike is only cosmetically damaged. (POUNDS beer) That was awesome.”

  54. He said arriving home: “Dad I survived a full speed crash on a motorcycle and I’m fine and the bike is only cosmetically damaged. (POUNDS beer) That was awesome.”

    ???Rights of passage? Mr. Red pill father???

    People, don’t you understand
    The child needs a helping hand
    Or he’ll grow to be an angry young man some day?
    Take a look at you and me
    Are we too blind to see
    Do we simply turn our heads, and look the other way?
    Well, the world turns
    And a hungry little boy with a runny nose
    Plays in the street as the cold wind blows…

  55. I just got back and read through all the comments to me on this thread.

    A lot of people asked about the crappy sex I’ve always had with my wife. I talked about this in a long post at the link below a few months ago – it’s the source of a lot of current sexual troubles.

    https://therationalmale.com/field-reports-comment-page-2-comments/comment-page-36/#comment-210188

    We actually had sex a couple of nights ago. I didn’t do that much. We’d been out for dinner and she’d had some wine and got horny and she pretty directly suggested going to bed when we got home. So it wasn’t duty or starfish sex, it was pretty good, but I felt more like she had an itch and I was scratching it..and it was very much led by her, including what we did, where I touched her and that sort of thing.

    But I though it was still “genuine desire” and went with it and it was pretty fun. First time in a while.

    Interestingly, because I rarely do this with her when she’s had a few drinks, she was much more vocal than usual even though the kids could have woken up. She was moaning something about “restrain me” when I had one arm pinned down and then she said something about “yeah, yeah, tie me up with my legs spread apart and take me” and then repeatedly she kept saying something like “yeah, yeah, take it from me! take it!”. She may be more submissive than I thought, but then again she really led the whole sex and the initiation so I don’t know.

    Which was a real insight into her fantasies and what turns her on which after years I still don’t really have. As long as I keep improving myself, we can go a long way – it gave me a lot of confidence that I can actually walk this path and make it happen actually.

    When we were done she lay against me and said “I love you so much..sometimes I forget how much..we’re meant to be together” and “we should do this more often”.

    It also gave me in an unusual way some insight emotionally into what some of the comments to me said about how they thought even if she was not cheating, she was setting herself up for it to just happen, especially if the sex wasn’t good and I wasn’t giving her what she needed.

    I don’t know if I’m being clear about what I felt, but it felt like she was so turned on and fantasising and needed the release and if I’m not giving it to her then I can see how in the right circumstances some other man could scratch that itch for her..that need she has when she was moaning in bed about her fantasies…it doesn’t HAVE to be me scratches that itch does it?

    I mean I know this intellectually already but somehow it hit me viscerally in a way that it hadn’t before..she clearly feels this strongly and if I’m not doing it for her someone else could do it.

    I don’t know what to do about it though..her business trip is next week. It seems really over the top to be thinking of laptop and phone key loggers and hiring PIs and that sort of thing.

    ..although, now that I think of it while writing this out. I wonder if it is possible that her change in sexual behaviour to be more vocal and more directive (she was also fairly direct in making it clear what she wanted, but she was a bit more so on Friday) could have anything to do with already having an affair.

  56. Happy Easter, men. I’ve much to celebrate, frankly more than ever in my life…in large part to y’all’s company.

    Minor miracles surround me. I’ve learned to recognize them so much so that I expect everything to go my way if not immediately, eventually. A deep faith in that ebb-flow, that control isn’t part of the equation no more.

    Who’s the crazy one? The one who believes in miracles or the one who denies it’s existence while in the presence of one?

    I’ve stopped getting in front of myself, fully. Done. I feel it and synergistically my family does too.

    I’ve found humility in that I avoid masochistically, faithlessly, shoulder-chip-prideful, undue pain…secure in a fearlessness that I’ve been given a break on this earth and it’ll be o.k. not because I pridefully made it so but rather because IT IS SO.

    I pray y’all have a great day.

  57. Marquis,

    No snark here: Why do you have concern that others question you? Why you need to defend anything you do? Do you take unconscious pleasure in being demeaned in the secret hope that it might become validation in some convolution of addiction to your pride?

    You think anyone here gives a rat’s ass, at this point, that you do something or not?

    You interpret stasis as dynamism. Guys here see this.

    By all means feel free continue posting a masochistic celebration of psychological seige warfare…on yourself, your wife, your family.

  58. Marquis

    “she was much more vocal than usual even though the kids could have woken up. She was moaning something about “restrain me” when I had one arm pinned down and then she said something about “yeah, yeah, tie me up with my legs spread apart and take me” and then repeatedly she kept saying something like “yeah, yeah, take it from me! take it!”. She may be more submissive than I thought”

    She gave you a road map. It’s up to you to Get It now… Increase your dominance in bed… Stop slacking and bring your A game.

    As to her trip, why not just hit her on a high note and lead her to the conclusion you are going …?

  59. Marquis

    “Your SO has learned some new behavior, but not from you.”

    Naah. She is just giving him some help…

  60. “Naah. She is just giving him some help…”

    Otherwise know as Truth Bombs. They get sprinkled around by her. For good performance by you. On occasion.

    They are a Sign. Of what? is open to interpretation. Do your best to figure it out.

Speak your mind

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