The Marriage Game

As a few of my readers know my daughter is presently a sophomore at college. Every time she reaches a new milestone in her life I have a tendency to mentally go back in time in my own life and consider how utterly different her experiences are in comparison to my own. At 19 the thought of being as organized and honestly well off as she is in life now would never have occurred to me. For a very brief moment in my life back then I’d kept a journal of what it was I was doing and thinking at the time. My first ‘real’ girlfriend had given me this blank journal (she was one of those girls who wrote diaries) to write my thoughts in and being the Beta I was then most of it was filled with my Blue Pill frustration with girls. She’d gifted me this journal, I found out later, as an effort to absolve her of all the guilt she knew was coming her way for having cheated on me and deciding that, at 18 herself, she wanted to move on into her Party Years without the baggage of a dutiful Beta who thought he was going to marry her.

This was 1988 and the then 19 year old Rollo Tomassi was very much a typical Blue Pill Beta. I sometimes read back through the dozen or so pages I actually took the time to write back then to remind myself how I thought back then. I was very much and idealistic Beta back then, but I had several other friends who subscribed to the same Blue Pill delusions; and now with hindsight I realize this phase in a Beta’s life is one that was around long before and long after I went through it. This was the ‘Break Phase’ I outline in Preventive Medicine.

As it turned out, the girl who I predictably developed ONEitis for, the first girl to spread her legs for me (‘enthusiastically’), the girl I thought had to be “quality” if she appreciated a guy like me, was every bit the ‘play the field’ skank I would’ve never called her because it was what a “typical male” would say about her. At one point I had thought I’d want to marry her. My Blue Pill conditioning had taught me it would be the right, “supportive” thing to do; marry her and support her ambitions and goals (it’s what good Blue Pill boys ought to do) at the sacrifice of my own. And as directionless as I was then, that was an easy decision to make.

My daughter recently informed me that her boyfriend’s best friend just proposed to his girlfriend at 19. Both this guy and his girlfriend are also sophomores at the same school and this is what triggered the reminiscing for me. At 49, and having lived the life I have and the experiences I use on this blog today, I’m very glad my first girlfriend dumped me. That’s hard to say sometimes, particularly when I think back on the pit of misery years I spent with the BPD girlfriend I’d gotten involved with later, but I’m thankful for those bad experiences as much as the good ones. So, it’s really difficult for me to tell my daughter’s friend “oh, congratulations”.

It’s very difficult for me to endorse anyone getting married at so early an age these days or when I was 19. Modern marriage is a menagerie of horrors for today’s men. People say, “Rollo you’re married, how come you’re so hard on marriage?” It’s either that or they presume my marriage is a shit show and I’m venting like a petulant boy. When I’m critical of marriage it’s in spite of my own (very happy for 21 years) marriage. But I cannot condone it for men today – not in its present state. Hardline MGTOWs and PUAs agree on one thing, if you ever consider marriage you’re Blue Pill. I’ve written in many prior posts that I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment, but I do understand it. The risks today far outweigh the rewards, but still there are men who, even with Red Pill awareness, will still take it on.

There’s a running debate I have going on with Hunter Drew (The Family Alpha) and Tanner Guzy (Masculine Style) about how marriage is a lifestyle decision, and depending on how informed a man is about the risks he assumes and when he decides to get married, this decision is literally a question of life or death for that guy. Both these guys married early in life, both have kids, and both will have far different experiences than myself in this respect. Both of them and myself have assumed the risks and sacrifices this entails. I’m fully aware that my wife can detonate the marriage at any time. I’m sure both Hunter and Tanner are well aware that their wives also have the right to have them removed from their home and take their children away from them for any reason. But we’re all married, and as I wrote in Surrender, we have all willingly put ourselves in the most vulnerable position a man can be in; we’ve bet our lives, livelihoods and the future health and happiness of our kids and families on what today is the ultimate suckers bet for a man. And what’s worse, we cannot ever expect women or our wives to ever relate with just how dangerous a position we willingly put ourselves in.

So I’m thinking about all of this after my daughter tells me about this 19 year old kid proposing to his girlfriend. Statistically his marriage will end before he’s 28. I would also bet that, like myself at 19, he’s making a decision that will affect him and his fiancé’s based on Blue Pill idealism – an idealism that’s informed by the Feminine Imperative and delusions of egalitarian equalism. Naturally I can’t possibly think this is a good idea. If I were this boy’s father I’d strongly advise against it, but there are others in the manosphere who would encourage this.

“Grown” Men

There’s an old saying that goes “marriage is our last, best chance for growing up”. I also disagree with this from the perspective of today’s version of marriage, but I understand how homey platitudes like this are appealing to a social order of men who it seems don’t want to grow up. It’s becoming a new way of AMOGing (particularly in religious circles); if you’ve got your shit together enough to see the wisdom in being married and starting a family you’re a “better man” than the ‘boys’ who they believe want to extend their adolescence. It’s really nothing new.

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

This is one half of strategic pluralism theory for men. Men who invest themselves in the long term aspect will always look for ways to validate their inability or unwillingness to pursue multiple partners. It’s easy to think that these men make their necessity a virtue, and that may or may not be the case, but what’s undeniable is that investing themselves in a one-mate strategy necessarily selects them out of experiences with women that would otherwise aid them in vetting a woman as a good long term prospect. The Blue Pill has always subjugated men to be predisposed to the one-mate investment strategy while simultaneously encouraging women to adopt a multiple mate strategy. That may seem counterintuitive, but when we look at the Sheryl Sandberg plan for Hypergamy we can see that what they believe is prudence is having a large selection of potential husbands from which to choose.

In Trad-Con manosphere thinking it seems like conventional wisdom to encourage men and women to marry younger. Look at where we’re at today; women forestall marriage – ostensibly to further a career, but really to falsely extend their Hypergamous decision making years – until their Epiphany Phase (29-31) or even beyond by freezing their eggs. Men take much more time to mature into their peak SMV potential, but what’s the common complaint? These men aren’t “being men” by preparing themselves for a life of family and marriage. They aren’t catering their lives’ decisions to fulfill women’s sexual strategy, and really what incentive do they have to when women are following the Sandbergian path of Hypergamy? Men and women marry later and later – if at all. Women unmarried by the time they’re 34-35 are likely to never marry in their lives.

Marrying Early

So it seems like wisdom to tell this kid, “good on you”, in spite of all the odds staked against him and despite the Blue Pill idealistic delusions that are prompting him to propose. Trad-Cons love the idea of a return to something resembling “traditional values” in order to save western culture from itself, but it’s important to remember that those old books values are really just leverage in a new books world.

Marrying early, as I said, is usually the result of Blue Pill naiveté. Both young men and women are still ignorant of who they are or who they have a potential to become. I see a lot of early-marrieds originating in religious circles because this is their only means to “legitimate” sex, but there are the guys who see marrying early a better way to ensure ‘permanent’ sex for themselves. In some respects it’s almost a blessing that women at this age are so anti-marriage – most young men on the investment side of strategic pluralism are far too willing to kill their own dreams to accommodate their investment.

Marriages that begin between 20-24 are almost 39% more likely to end in divorce. A lot of this, I speculate, is due to women feeling like they need to make up for missing out. The idealism of young Blue Pill men marrying early has one big obstacle and that’s the influence of Hypergamy on their wives. In Preventive Medicine I made the case that no matter the woman’s choices she makes or has made for her in life, it will not negate Hypergamy’s influence on her. Yes, that influence can be mitigated culturally (laughable in western societies) or personally, but it doesn’t remove the evolved influence. By the time that 20 year old mother and wife is 30, she’s had ten years to develop the resentment of her choice by living vicariously through her single girlfriends’ experiences. The context may change, but Hypergamy doesn’t.

Early marriage limits a man’s potential. Trad-Cons will fight me on this one, but the responsibilities of marriage and parenting will necessarily limit a man from opportunities he would otherwise have were he single. Aristotle said, “The Ideal age for marriage in men is 35. The Ideal age for marriage in women is 18”, not unlike my sexual market value graph, but the reason for this is because it takes much longer for a man to establish himself as a man. The simple truth is that part of the sacrifice of being married means a man will not be able to capitalize on opportunities he would have were he single. Some opportunities may never even be made available to him because of him being married. This isn’t something most early-marrying men consider.

Men who marry early and stick it out through their peak SMV years often feel the mid-life crisis (epiphany) years much more acutely. This is kind of the man’s making up for missing out resentment a wife may feel as she becomes more and more aware that she can’t compete in the SMP for a better Hypergamous prospect. I don’t believe men have a “crisis” per se around this time, but what they do experience is a sense of introspection that’s colored by their now better capacity to understand the game they’ve been a part of with regards to women. When a man’s married well this is less of an issue, but there is a definite remorse over the “life he could’ve lived” if only he’d known better. This is an assessment of the sacrifices he’s made, how they paid off (if at all) and a sort of survey of his life up to that point.

The biggest ‘con’ to early marriage is that it’s always going to be a learn as you go prospect while trying to establish a world that a his wife of the future will want to defer herself to. This worked far better in a culture and time when women would be compelled to defer to a man’s mastery due to religion, social norms and respect. We do not live in those day anymore and women have actionable ‘outs’ of any commitment that doesn’t suit them, while men have more responsibilities to qualify themselves to suit women.

Advantages?

Early marriage has a few advantages, but all of these depend on the personal nature of the woman a man marries. That sounds kind of obvious, but if you go into a marriage with a solid Frame and a woman who expects to defer to your dominance, I think young marrieds might have a better shot at long term success. If a woman is a virgin, yes, this can be a real source of attachment for her if her husband imprints on her as solidly dominant Alpha. I always advise men not to get involved with a virgin girl if his only plan is to spin her as a plate. There is far too significant and imprinting with virgin women and sex with an Alpha man, or even a guy who seemed Alpha. This is the recipe for an Alpha Widow, but in a marriage it can make for a strong bond.

As has been mentioned countless times, the most stable and healthy way to raise children is in a committed marriage. This might be the only advantage marriage may have for a man today. In an early marriage I would think that a woman being at her sexual market value peak, combined with following her true biological clock (her prime fertility window 22-26) the odds of having happy healthy children are improved. I have a cousin who spent more than half his life building himself into a millionaire architect, but at my age (49) his children are 5 and 7. I can’t imagine living this life now. I suppose money might make it easier, but evolutionarily speaking he and I should effectively be grandfathers by now. I married at 28 and there are advantages and disadvantages to this as well, but I cannot imagine having young children at my age.

Finally, for the “well, duh” moment, it goes without saying that a young wife/mother should necessarily be playing on your team. The only possible successful prospect for a younger marriage to have any stability is if that woman understands what it is she’s sacrificing. Women likewise sacrifice their own personal potentials and later this becomes their source of resentment. The stakes are high for men, particularly if they aren’t Red Pill aware, but women too must understand her own sacrifices; I think this is the most difficult thing. Women’s solipsism, Hypergamous nature and a social order that ‘fempowers’ them to believe not only can they “have it all” but are entitled to it all makes this the bridge too far for young marriage.

In the Trad-Con sphere today there is a constant droning for personal responsibility on the part of men. There is little to none about the responsibilities of women. We’re constantly told that women are only the way they are because men have allowed it. I’ve written before that this is a cop out and an absolving of women’s complicity that mirrors what the Feminine Imperative has put forth. Women are taught not to do anything “for a man” and anything a woman does that might be expressly for a man is is conflated with subservience. Consequently we get generations of women who only indulge their natural solipsism and expect men’s sacrifices as part of the utilities. This is one of the primary reasons all marriages fail; there is no complementarity. Marriage becomes nothing but a naked exchange of resources on the part of the man and anything a woman might do ‘for’ him is frowned upon. And don’t think this is just limited to those blue haired feminists, you can find it at your church.

Women can only willingly want to please a man whose Frame is the dominant one. You’ve got to have that world established that she wants to enter and become a complementary, supportive (of you) and willing participant in. This world-building takes time. Women evolved to seek competency in men. Hypergamy cannot afford to bet all of a woman’s genetic legacy on a guy who has “potential” – they want the proven commodity. This is one reason women look for men older and taller than they are. More importantly, you need a woman who is playing on your team, not against you. And sadly this is the state of marriage promoted by the Feminine Imperative today. Egalitarianism doesn’t promote complementary cooperation, it promotes an adversarial state of competition between husband and wife.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,229 comments on “The Marriage Game

  1. AWALT married or not.

    Y’all know where I was…this is where I’m now at:

    She doesn’t snark nor laugh at me. She rarely speaks out of turn. If she does all it takes is a look to fix it. She will cry about her insecurities rather than my failures. She doesn’t get angry but scared. She’ll serve me, the kids, I’ll leave my dishes and she’ll volunteer to clean up. Sex is vibrant and not terrifying, even the fun stuff, she asks for it.

    All this and I don’t say one thing about anything. It was me who changed for good and we enjoy this new relationship.

    Best of TRM year 1 & 2 and it’s not working or you’ve got hang ups about being married or self righteous about being single…that’s a fear tell.

    By all means, go ahead, dump on the future. No marriage, no legacy. Auto limit yourself playing not to lose. You’ll find a crab bucket aplenty of flinchers to support you.

    In the meantime time I’ll surround myself with consequential love and blood loyalty.

    What’ll you have at irrevocable death?

    Pride? N-count? Anger? Envy?

  2. Women only rail against the notion because they’re socially retarded in a way that they aren’t punished for until they turn 30.

    Ya Really used to talk about that.

  3. 1. Rollo writes a great article
    2. Some guys try to discuss it and apply it to their own lives but before they can get the wheels off the ground….
    3. Blax, Sentient and other OMG’s repurpose the article into a discussion about how alpha they are.

    Every single time.

  4. How old are you westray?

    I didn’t notice the ” alphaing “. That’s your interpretation. So, how about it? What’s your experience?

  5. @Westray

    So tell us what are you going to do about that in your line of life? In the alternatives space of a billion different things that can happen to you in the future? How does the original posts resonate with you and what are you going to do with that. Besides get angry at the comments?

    How does other guys telling about their alpha experiences get boring or distract from the awareness, actually? You are getting derailed and not getting your wheels off the ground by comments from Sentient? Why is that? Explain what the problem is. What is this repurpose you speak of? What better purpose for yourself do you propose?

    No one is advocating you get off your ass and get married. No one. At all.

    But sometimes a guy might want to run towards adventure, rather than cower at the thought of adventure with a woman. That’s part of the problem with PUA which is more concerned with avoiding screwing up on getting the screw than choosing a good thing for him that is just out of his reach, that is difficult, that which makes him more anti-fragile, that which gives him more opportunity.

    As one of my buddies recalled what I told him pretty much one year ago: “If you don’t figure things out with the blue pill problems and lack of alpha you are having with this one girl who is AWALT, you will have the same problems with another woman. If you work all this out now with her you will benefit in the future and with any relationship.” And he continues to fuck/rail her silly. To his and her benefit. Whereas at the time he was literally in a state of de-railment.

    There is a reason you have experiences with the feminine as a masculine male. What other proposals do you have? Try to win The Lottery? Good luck with That. That’s not what the original post is about. There is a process to masculinity and moving forward with it to freedom from constraint. If Rollo and TRM stands for anything it is figure your own shit out and move forward with enlightened self interest, and control your destiny. Rollo doesn’t like to hold himself up an example of how to move forward in this world. But he is an excellent example of how to do that.

    How is the OMG’s alleged ‘derailing’ not just this?:

    ….with effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible, so don’t actually be too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually not achieve those fantastic results….

    It’s not a de-railing. It’s a railing of sorts.

    Go out and do great stuff for yourself. Please. Act and choose. Be anti-fragile. Make it about you and “they” will benefit.

  6. I admit it. JP is killing it. I’ve started consuming his vids all week long. Addictive. Funny sounding, but addictive.

  7. @Blaximus

    Jordan Peterson’s intellectualism is fun. Really fun.

    When he debates, what comes out is Law #48

    Law 48
    Assume Formlessness

    By taking a shape, by having a visible plan, you open yourself to attack. Instead of taking a form
    for your enemy to grasp, keep yourself adaptable and on the move. Accept the fact that nothing
    is certain and no law is fixed. The best way to protect yourself is to be as fluid and formless as
    water; never bet on stability or lasting order. Everything changes.

    What is going on here is not a debate over him being blue pill. He’s actually doing fine for his ownself. He’s not dangerous for the cause of The Red Pill. If he tells you boys to be better, that is not in-congruent with a guy being red pill. He’s not actually vociferously advocating to not have enlightened self interest and doing what you can with power. I could be incorrect at how someone reads him, but those young lost boys reading it other than me are wrong. Being Good, (with the capacity to be bad, but with the discipline to do it only if necessary.) and having the tactical virtues of strength, courage, Mastery, and Honor (among men) is a great tactical approach.

    But keep in mind: There is no top down approach. To the extent that Jordan Peterson can help, he will help from the bottoms up to stop the flow of Lost Boys in the Universe. He’s not going to undermine the red pill, because no idiot won’t migrate into the manosphere. Not idiot won’t end up on TRM. And if the don’t, there not very bright. Not very much able to make it through triage.

  8. I’m an OMG, but I hardly consider myself Alpha. And I did do best of TRM etc. Perhaps I didn’t do it right, perhaps my wife is just too plain stupid. I came to the realisation that not only is the juice not worth the squeeze, but that she doesn’t deserve me.

    It’s easy to identify a whole raft of laws that made this mess. The solution is known. But it is like getting the toothpaste back into the tube (except you can only use one hand… in the dark… whilst drunk… whilst riding a bike). Good luck with that.

  9. SJF
    February 3, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    Teaching the LTR Red Pill is also teaching her to like herself.

    Asked the LTR yesterday if she liked learning about herself and becoming comfortable with it. I got an enthusiastic YES. This from a woman who fought the concept for 40+ years. It always turned her on (when she would allow it to). What she didn’t like was how “base” the behavior was (not morally acceptable).

  10. “There’s an old saying that goes “marriage is our last, best chance for growing up”.”

    This is part of JBP’s line of thinking. Understandable, but out of sync with today’s realities.

  11. “what’s undeniable is that investing themselves in a one-mate strategy necessarily selects them out of experiences with women that would otherwise aid them in vetting a woman as a good long term prospect.”

    Well said. This is one of the main pitfalls of blue pill idealism – it forms the basis of oneitis, belief in “the one”& “quality women”, belief in “feminine mystique”, and, confers men who think this way with a lower SMV automatically.

  12. “women have actionable ‘outs’ of any commitment that doesn’t suit them, while men have more responsibilities to qualify themselves to suit women.”

    Truer words have never been spoken.

  13. “I always advise men not to get involved with a virgin girl if his only plan is to spin her as a plate. There is far too significant and imprinting with virgin women and sex with an Alpha man, or even a guy who seemed Alpha. This is the recipe for an Alpha Widow, but in a marriage it can make for a strong bond.”

    This is true. I have experienced the truth of this in reverse.

    Sometime last year almost had an affair with a married woman.
    She was the archetypal “good woman”: Christian, raised right and married as a virgin.

    Problem was she always had this need to submit to a man sexually – the husband didn’t heed this. Even when she tried to bring it up he wouldn’t have it.

    So, somehow, she found her her way to me, someone who she’d never met, who was red pilled and now actualising those tenets, and, in less than two weeks the woman, happily married I may add, was ready to have my kid, and let me have my way with her.

    So yeah, imprinting is important, especially if you marry a virgin. Because, hypergamy, is always operating in the background.

    Even a woman in a stable, happy marriage can succumb.

    It falls on us as men to understand women how they are, and adjust accordingly.

  14. “I have a cousin who spent more than half his life building himself into a millionaire architect, but at my age (49) his children are 5 and 7. I can’t imagine living this life now. I suppose money might make it easier, but evolutionarily speaking he and I should effectively be grandfathers by now. I married at 28 and there are advantages and disadvantages to this as well, but I cannot imagine having young children at my age.”

    I think it might be this way for me. The way I see it financial autonomy will allow me to be more involved, in a sense, in my children’s lives.

    I think delayed fatherhood is better than beta fatherhood. Or rather, a balance in favour of stronger, established fathers, who understand life and the game, is more desirable.

    My dad had me at 44, though he’d already had 4 children by then.

    That’s the limit I’m giving myself, age wise.

  15. Westray

    Here is the thing. It’s a question you should pose to yourself often. It’s something that seperates alpha from beta:

    So what are YOU going to do about it?

  16. Blaximus, Sentient, SJF

    Your alpha stances/affirmations/claims are as predictable, dull and relentless as Rugby 11’s vids. Does that help you understand?

    Might even be that your constant stream of alpha platitudes about your own selves isn’t alpha behavior at all.

  17. @westray

    they are too ego-invested and nothing can be done

    Skip/skim the comments, there’s little value here

  18. Great article Rollo.

    Only argument I do not completely understand is the following:

    “As has been mentioned countless times, the most stable and healthy way to raise children is in a committed marriage.”

    Commited man-woman-LTR agreed, monogamous or not (that’s another discussion), but how does “committed marriage” come into play here in regard to raising kids? Because it’s more stable (arguably?)?

    Serious question, no snark.

    – – – – – – –

    And apropos of nothing @ all, a little short film I randomly found which some of you might enjoy

  19. “Might even be that your constant stream of alpha platitudes about your own selves isn’t alpha behavior at all.”

    Well all I can say is the my sexual strategy, my wife and children are working out pretty well lately. And I’ve been working out pretty good lately at the gym. Weightlifting is fun.

    And I’m also getting over impingement syndrome in my shoulders.

    I also just turned on a crockpot of venison chili with home grown shiitake mushrooms.

    Cheers.

  20. @ westray

    OK cool you’re entitled to your opinion.

    And your misunderstanding.

    And your fear.

    And your anger.

    And you pettiness and short narrow sightedness.

    Really, it’s cool.

  21. A little background. Same age as @Rollo. Backed into marriage, had kid first, at around 26. Ended up having 3 children. Blue pilled the marriage and divorce about 6 years ago Most painful thing ever went through in my life. Not zeroed out, but did leave a mark.

    @Rollo
    Finding this website not long after my divorce was a life changer. Your work has had a huge impact on my life. This has been a great series of articles in recent months. Some of best ever.

  22. “And I’m also getting over impingement syndrome in my shoulders.”

    Have the same thing going on. Physical therapy helps a lot.

    Also, impingement syndrome sounds way better than me saying “my shoulders are fucked up”. LOL

  23. “Enthusiastic consent”? Negotiated overt dog thinking. Unreliable.

    I suggest the unequivocal “full-throated consent”.

  24. Sentient,

    What am I going to do about it?

    Ignore your comments in which you go spelunking around in your own #&%hole, I guess. It’s boring as hell.

    Blaximus,

    What a girlish non-sequitir. You guys are like a pack of middle school mean girls. I’ll just skip your comments. Please do the same with mine. Deal? A firm, manly, cyber-alpha handshake on it.

  25. rugby11
    February 4, 2018 at 9:37 am

    The way to beat/use Briffault’s Law is this. She has one-itis for you. The only essential benefit you provide in such a case is you. She can’t get enough. Ever. The more she gets the more she wants. Dread is very handy when desire lags. It reminds her of how much she NEEDS you.

  26. @SJF: “I have no idea what these thoughts degenerated into. Started out good, though.”

    Agreed. She started on the right path and then lost her way.

    A women when turned on by an Alpha does not need to do those mental gymnastics. I don’t know why these writers / psychologists come so close to pointing out that women enjoy sex only with Alphas, and back off at the last minute. Perhaps they are afraid to hurt the feelings of Beta Male readers and they don’t want to scare away the prey. It is the same with PUAs, they only spew half truths.

    Only a very few writers (including Rollo) lay it out the way it is in reality.

  27. So how did it happen? (Me and the LTR) One year I had a dry spell (I was busy working). So I started spinning plates and she fell into the rotation. And never quit. No. Matter. What. Except for once. Early on. It was the biggest mistake of her life. She never made it again.

    When she would taste another woman on me she would get angry for 3 seconds and then decide opening up to me was the better option. Every. Single. Time.

    All fun and games? Hell no. She had a few major problem which I had my mind set on fixing. And some 40+ years on I’m starting to get continuous results. I always got them sporadically.

    You would be amazed at how attached some people can become to their misery. Even after EXPERIENCING a better way. And being told OFTEN what to do to get those results more frequently.

    Socially, we are living in such a period. The political FI is based almost totally on misery.

    Thankfully the misery is near its peak. Which means it will get worse. For a while.

  28. @Westray: Are you new to TRM? If so, I can understand the way you feel. But overtime you will come to terms with the fact that some of the older readers have gone through a transformation unimaginable to some of the new readers. They despise even a slightest hint of weakness, they have transcended in the “zero fucks given” land. I am not quite there yet, but aspire to get there soon.

    So rather than calling them out, it is better to either listen to them or ignore their comments. But if you spend long enough time you will appreciate what they do here.

    There are a lot of buffers and illusions lurking in the hindbrain of many Red Pill aware too. The only way to remove those buffers is to call out on the bull shit and most of the older commenters do a pretty good job at that.

    A firm, manly, cyber-alpha handshake back at you.

  29. Westray

    See you have no frame. You say you are going to ignore my comments ( after commenting on them) and yet you don’t.

    This lack of agency is a characteristic of beta.

    I understand why you are angry. Anger is a symptom of beta. It’s weak.

  30. I’m not new here. I disagree with you. It’s self-congratulation mixed with early onset Alzheimer’s maybe. Who cares? It’s so boring and worthless. I read a lot and the clockwork consistency of the thread derailment into OMG’s awesomeness has long been a serious waste of time. I will ignore for sure. I agree with you on that.

  31. @ Incubus Rising

    “There are a lot of buffers and illusions lurking in the hindbrain of many Red Pill aware too. The only way to remove those buffers is to call out on the bull shit and most of the older commenters do a pretty good job at that.”

    Great point!

    I’ve has some great call outs from in real life red pill buddies especially this last two months. The reference experiences of being called out your bullshit and buffers is priceless for those of us that are paying attention to what is actually going on here.

    “I don’t know why these writers / psychologists come so close to pointing out that women enjoy sex only with Alphas, and back off at the last minute. Perhaps they are afraid to hurt the feelings of Beta Male readers and they don’t want to scare away the prey.”

    Only a very few writers (including Rollo) lay it out the way it is in reality.

    Great Point!

    “But overtime you will come to terms with the fact that some of the older readers have gone through a transformation unimaginable to some of the new readers.”

    Great Point.

    And BTW, They are Real and they are Spectacular.

    @Westray

    What are the proper ‘rails’ for a discussion in an un-moderated comments section. Maybe you could use your words and lead the discussion in a direction that you favor, or can make some insights into.

    BTW, the venison chili with homegrown shiitakes turned out great. I just had my second Super Bowl serving of it. And I put chopped onions, sour cream, mild cheddar and sour cream on top of it.

  32. Westray

    Ha ha.

    Don’t hate the player, hate the game…etc. etc.

    I speak catonese , so what you’re saying in man speak is ” I’d rather hear everyone suffering and doubtful and confused and afraid, and when older dudes speak it makes my vagina wet and I don’t like that feelings.. ”

    Am I right?

    Sorry pal. You can like it, or you can love it. Those are your options.

    .. Wait a minute, or you can try to LEARN from it and apply some things to your life and just say ” no ” to the big blue wimpishment. Your balls are not there for balance or some shit. Sack the fuck up.

    Man, looks like the marines and special forces might be on their last generation very shortly. 90/10 here we come.

  33. At middle age here is what I see. 90% of married women are unhappy with their blue pill husbands whom they married because of their earning potential. They are now bored. Most are on some sort of medication like SSRIs. Most of the wives cheat. It would not surprise me if all of them cheat. Work travel hotels are like college dorms. They flirt with men in front of their husbands. During girls nights out they make fun of their husbands. They discuss their dick sizes and lampoon their O faces. Most of the husbands are good guys who worship their wives.

    The single women I know are also on medication. They have so many sex partners it would shock you. They all have five to twenty orbiters in the friendzone. They are miserable because they do not have a man. When they do land a man they will return to being unhappy (and making him very unhappy) within one year.

    American females are not marriage material.

    If you are going to marry do so with a woman from an old culture who was raised with good values and a strong father. Otherwise do not marry her especially if she is American. Do not put her name on your home. If you two split you will have to pay child support but there will be no alimony and you get to keep your home, retirement, property, cars, investments and money. Child support is a lot cheaper than a wife.

    Do not fear the split. I am happy to report that life for a single middle aged man is better than it was in college. Women hit a very hard wall at 40. We do not. Men age like wine, women age like milk. You will be horrified at what happens to the women you once jizzed your pants over.

    There are three types of pussy. There is free pussy that single men get. There is cheap pussy and they are called hookers, Then there is the really expensive pussy and they are called wives.

    Marriage is a piece of paper. It is nothing more than a contract between you, your wife and the government. Your wife will treat it as a sacred institution during the marriage ceremony and you will hear nothing about the government being a party to the contract, but your wife will treat it as a cold contract during the divorce. It is a contract you do not need that does not benefit you.

    I do not blame women for wanting marriage. I would too if I were a woman.

  34. SJF
    February 4, 2018 at 4:44 pm

    In the Arica system buffers are indicated when you have “charge” with something. Something ordinary upsets you.

  35. @westray @blax

    Sack the fuck up.

    Damn straight.

    Westray you just need to calm down.

    Only pussy gamma dudes get upset over words and pictures on the internet.

    Real alpha men are man enough for that shit not to bother them.

    So you just need to quit asking questions, stop thinking critically, and accept the wisdom of the older generation, who know all things and make no mistakes.

    Oh, and blax I found another pic:

    https://dhcwargamesblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/round-huts.jpg

    Its some plastic huts and white chicks.

    Lets see if my lego man hut will come through this time:

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/654/31214604614_d6b187d997_b.jpg

  36. What’s with the “don’t marry” mantra? Do what you want. Simple. Stay single, get married, get divorced, spin plates, go full monk mode, go gay… lol… This is just a means to an end. Which is what? A fulfilling life? And what gives you that?

    Do you want people around you? Men (no homo lol), women, children? Are you into long term pair bonding? You enjoy the initial phases of relationships and then it fizzles out? You’re a thrill of a hunt type and need novelty even sooner? MGTOW? Do you think you may want kids? How much time would you be willing to spend with them and how?

    What sort of life do you want? If you don’t know, how can you find out and how fast?

    When I discovered Red Pill, I went through all kind of stages… Should I get divorced? Should I make it work? Do I want something else? FFS do I know what I want?! I had to answer all these questions myself… and then make it work.

    One of the traps I was constantly falling into was the same male version of the hamster wheel (shout out to @WIArchie) I see here. Dog logic spin up. Tautology mixed with fear.

    Take this example. After some time, I got my wife buy into separating our joint accounts and assets (BP legacy). Huge improvement. I don’t have to worry about daily expenses any more, argue about where the money goes etc. Wife has her own money pot and has to deal with it on her own without me trying to reason with her. It went quite smoothly (initially she was suspicious, but now she sees no other way). I even built emotional foundations for getting legally divorced (on paper, not to get separated). Lol… I could push it either way and keep it as is or execute legal parting with her supporting the idea and without breaking the family. Oh man, how many days did I spend thinking how to minimize all potential downsides of marriage?

    Eventually I put this dog logic spin up on hold and decided to move on. Too exhausting and not really productive. But I shut it down only after a comment from one old wise motherf*cker. He told me about someone who was looking for financial gains. How? By putting more effort into finding ways to avoid taxes. Effect? The business didn’t grow, the gains were illusory and consumed more and more time. He ended the story with a simple moral: don’t avoid taxes, earn more money. I knew it wasn’t about finances…

    That’s what’s stayed with me: there are two types of people – those who spend their time avoiding taxes and those who use it to make more money. Don’t lose sight of your end goal.

  37. That’s what’s stayed with me: there are two types of people – those who spend their time avoiding taxes and those who use it to make more money. Don’t lose sight of your end goal.

    lights off….curtain close….. clap clap clap

    bravo

  38. I can agree with @westray that the discussions do get derailed into the land of
    •No fucks given• aboard the ■Impeccable Alpha Frame Train■ at times and its an exercise in futility to throw the old “thought football” around in the comment section, but its a testimony that everyone’s experiences with a universal issue is unique yet certain actions yeild predictable results.

    @IRL
    This is some dope insight.

    “By putting more effort into finding ways to avoid taxes. Effect? The business didn’t grow, the gains were illusory and consumed more and more time. He ended the story with a simple moral: don’t avoid taxes, earn more money. I knew it wasn’t about finances”

    Even though dominant social frame is one that is very difficult to maneuver, we still have to maneuver and at times the best defense is a strong offense. Dont neglect the shortest points from A to B. If you want “B” go at “B” and live with the consequences. That’s a tough pill to swallow. No matter the locker room pep talk…. but a failed attempt trumps no attempt imo.

    On the posted topic though; do you think there will be a drastic influx of marriage alternatives? Expats going abroad for marriage and LTRs? Or will critical mass occur and young women decide to go full sugar baby here in the US while older women become AirBnB for the cock of their choice while they collect provider checks, career checks, and pimp out the minds and bodies of their younger contemporaries?
    I see more and more SMP retirees banking on sexually fustrated Men with some fight left in em and Game young or younger pussy.
    We call them “boll weevils” where im at.

    They literally run their matriarchial families like Kris Jenner.

  39. “There are a lot of buffers and illusions lurking in the hindbrain of many Red Pill aware too. The only way to remove those buffers is to call out on the bull shit and most of the older commenters do a pretty good job at that.”

    One of the reason’s why i am here.

    “That’s what’s stayed with me: there are two types of people – those who spend their time avoiding taxes and those who use it to make more money. Don’t lose sight of your end goal.”
    https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/gzQHV1_oyUYUeAX95BodLw–/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/motleyfool.com/eadf1a993694a30f3ae4ac3c7d3cdc8e
    118 billion dollars bezos

    “Do not fear the split. I am happy to report that life for a single middle aged man is better than it was in college. Women hit a very hard wall at 40. We do not. Men age like wine, women age like milk. You will be horrified at what happens to the women you once jizzed your pants over.

    There are three types of pussy. There is free pussy that single men get. There is cheap pussy and they are called hookers, Then there is the really expensive pussy and they are called wives.

    Marriage is a piece of paper. It is nothing more than a contract between you, your wife and the government. Your wife will treat it as a sacred institution during the marriage ceremony and you will hear nothing about the government being a party to the contract, but your wife will treat it as a cold contract during the divorce. It is a contract you do not need that does not benefit you.

    I do not blame women for wanting marriage. I would too if I were a woman.”
    https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/smv-timeline1.jpg

    “What sort of life do you want? If you don’t know, how can you find out and how fast?
    https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/smv_curve1.jpg

    When I discovered Red Pill, I went through all kind of stages… Should I get divorced? Should I make it work? Do I want something else? FFS do I know what I want?! I had to answer all these questions myself… and then make it work.”

    A firm, manly, cyber-alpha handshake back at you.
    Spot on

  40. “. . . there are two types of people – those who spend their time avoiding taxes and those who use it to make more money.”

    And then there’s Arthur Jones.

  41. A large percentage of social mammals can be divided into what’s called pair-bonded species: they mate for life, males do a lot of child-care, females choose males who are good partners, there’s not a whole lot of aggression. Or tournament species: males are much bigger than females, and big sharp canines, ornamentation, they fight tons…. So what about humans? By every measure you could come up with from cultural anthropology to literally what sort of genetic diseases we have, we are halfway in between… and this explains like 90% of poetry and divorces… We are incredibly confused species in that regard.

    ==

    Among the troop of savanna baboons Dr. Sapolsky studied in Kenya, a terrible outbreak of tuberculosis selectively killed off the most dominant males and set the stage for a social and behavioral transformation. The victims had won rights to a tourist lodge garbage dump and were exposed to bovine tuberculosis. Left behind were the subordinate males, all the females, and their young. With that change in demographics came a “cultural swing toward pacifism, a relaxing of the usually parlous baboon hierarchy, and a willingness to use affection and mutual grooming rather than threats, swipes and bites to foster a patriotic spirit.”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-04/technology-heart-way-happiness-blockchain-technology

    ===

    FYI the article has NOTHING to do with blockchain.

  42. OMGs were YSG once too and in spite of the cultural environment the actors haven’t changed that much.

    If you’re standing your ground over an ostensible jab at your lifestyle, you’re missing the point of the comments and the OP.

    The point is to be pro/con fully aware.

    IMO people are clearer on the pros of their life’s lot but less clear on the cons. The cons are buffered away.

  43. Yeah, I agree with that observation.

    It’s appears sometimes that no matter what you say, or how you say it, there are always going to be some who will only see cons or a majority of downside to life itself.

    The sphere is a different kind of place with a different populous, with guys searching it out for answers for a variety of reasons. I never take the few hard cases that show up as being Representative of the larger population. All males are exposed to the same stressors pretty much. Even ‘ old ‘ guys ( because life isn’t about pussy. Feminism loves that kind of thinking because it renders one as silly putty ).

    IRL described the mindset I’ve tried to convey re: marriage, or even life for that matter. Do what you want to do in understanding. Just because you can’t scale Everest doesn’t mean that those who did are somehow full of shit. If mountaineering means nothing to you, do something that does hold meaning for you.

    But don’t get mad and shit the bed. That’s not what men do.

    And yeah, I keep harping on the ‘ men ‘ and ‘ masculinity’ aspect, and no, I give no shits about the handful of guys that complain or get ‘ bored ‘ with it. TRM has a nice and diverse group of men reading and commenting, with differing backgrounds and experiences. That’s a strength.

    Women have herd mentalities, men don’t.

    Bottom line: you have one guarantee in this life, and that’s death. All of us have an expiration date, believe that.

    How do you wish to spend your rapidly depleting time?

  44. Once I got into the “real world” after college, over 20 years ago, all I seemed to see was men who were married and miserable, or divorced and only seeing their kids on weekends. I grew up with my parents in a stable marriage and household, and was not about to sign up for the marriages I was witnessing all around me.

    Without a plan of attack, I knew I would end up like the miserable men around me. So I’d cut my girlfriends loose after 2-4 years together. I did this many times. Each time, while it hurt, I couldn’t see how to have a marriage in which we’d both win.

    That’s what eventually brought me to Rational Male. In my mid-40’s I was wondering what was wrong with me. How could I stop this same record from playing over and over again?

    A year later, I’m glad I stuck to my guns and never married. Without the Red Pill, I would have screwed it up.

    My advice to younger men; if you have enough game to keep her married to you, you have enough game to keep her as a permanent girlfriend. There’s no good reason to get married, and a million reasons not to get married.

  45. Blax

    More like “Fearless”

    You say the hill’s too steep to climb
    Chiding!
    You say you’d like to see me try
    Climbing!
    You pick the place and I’ll choose the time
    And I’ll climb
    The hill in my own way
    just wait a while, for the right day
    And as I rise above the treeline and the clouds
    I look down hear the sound of the things you said today

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeyHPAdxuy0

    But which one is Mr. Pink? Amirite???

  46. “There’s no good reason to get married”

    Easy now, I’ve got four.

    Perhaps this: “There’s no good reason for me to get married.”

    You’re extrapolating your life to everyone. Blax addressed this only just.

    I’d hope you reconsider dismissing the value of marriage. It’s not for you, of course. You’ve made it clear you’re unable to do that.

  47. thanks msimon, great video on male obselesence… there’s much to lift from her speech when discussing this with others; sometimes some concepts can be difficult to articulate, but she does this nicely; gonna swipe some of her points for my own use for sure

    “…diversity of voices and ideas is a healthy thing… if an idea does not hold up to challenge or scrutiny, it is probably garbage…”

    “…what is happening in these echo chambers is the ideas remain untested and unchallenged and then the psychological investment in the world view expressed there only increases…”

    some awesome guy once said that the difference between knowing and *understanding* that you’re gonna die is shown by the urgency it gives your life’s intentions….

    ………….
    Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
    Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

    You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
    And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
    No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun

    – Pink Floyd

  48. “Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them” – Henry David Thoreau

  49. @ kfg

    That’s true insofar that children and marriage are legal entities only.

    They’re not, IMO.

    Children aren’t things. Nor is my marriage. There’s a transactional, reciprocatiing nature of both.

    I value as succesful future for my children and all. That requires me to do things, things others prefer not to, to have a consequential impact on my kids and likewise others they’ll encounter as adults.

  50. @ status

    What you said makes 100% sense.

    ( westray skip the following lest you think I may be alphaing again rather than expressing a viewpoint from my own experiences )

    My parents are still married and that influenced my thinking that it could be done. I’d witnessed divorces, and even if I didn’t understand the why’s of the phenomenon at the time, eventually things became clearer over time.

    I’ve never ” feared ” the idea of marriage, even though many men actively advised against it. That’s probably due to having exposure to examples that flew in the face of what I was told were unavoidable negative impacts.

    That’s why I pound on the drum of knowledge and understanding.

    I also don’t advise young men to get married ever, but for slightly different reasons. Shit happens and marriages explode sometimes, but I’ve witnessed more men not being ready or really understanding their role in marriage, or even not really wanting marriage but doing it anyway and almost immediately regretting it after the line that is dotted has been signed.

    Kinda like a guy getting a job as an EVP using fake resumes and forged documents. Failure is imminent, the actual timeframe is variable depending on his ability to fake it.

    I was talking with a guy just this weekend. He’s been married for 5 years, and he gave me some advice on what marriage is. He and his wife are equal partners and the marriage is a business. She is relegated to the position of companion. He made it clear before they wed that he never wants children, regardless of her desire to have them. They keep separate and joint bank accounts, he owns 7 or 8 income producing properties and he’s’ safe ‘ because everything is in ‘ his ‘ name.

    He works multiple jobs and he and his wife aren’t together most of any given week, but they speak on the phone constantly. In his estimation all women are fools. Lol, he pedestalizes strippers of all things, and even though he didn’t outright say so, I’d bet the farm that he’s banged a few random strippers during his marriage.

    I think he’s done so because he stressed to me that All Men Cheat and any man that says he doesn’t is an outright liar.

    Now, realistically, what are the possible outcome of a union like that? What are the odds for and against?

    I only had one question for him : why did you even get married?

    He replied that men need a companion to do things with.

    I swear to God that was his reasoning.

    5 years in and he says it’s going great.

    What I didn’t ask him, but it immediately came to mind was ” if you’re never home, and you’re out tripping over strippers and taking your wife out as a companion occasionally, what do you really think she’s doing and thinking with this abundance of free, unhindered time? ”

    But I didn’t care enough to even pose the question aloud. I thanked him for the advice and changed the subject. Hey, he’s 5 years in and everything is working according to plan. He believes he’s protected because ‘ everything is in his name, and his wife agreed to his rules ‘. It’s all verbal in absentia.

    I know another guy that followed that exact same pattern. Exact. Except he had 2 boys in his marriage. They even own the same amount of property. The other guy got divorced last year after 10 years of marriage. It appears his wife came to hate him over that time period, and she’s setting out to strip him of everything possible with an army of lawyers.

    Neither of these guys were RP. Neither had any understanding of women other than they’re all fools and good for sex and should keep their words once they make a verbal agreement.

    Extreme examples, I’ll agree, and not average. But my point is that not everyone needs to nor should get married. It’s not necessary and could ruin you financially.

    Especially and particularly under certain circumstances that are well within your control with a proper understanding and mindset.

    No guarantee. Just a hell of an insurance policy.

  51. “That’s true insofar that children and marriage are legal entities only.

    They’re not, IMO.”

    That is correct, therefore it is best not to conflate them. That lies at the heart of the matrix.

  52. @ kfg

    You got me thinking a little more.

    Ever meet a TRM and/or RP guy? It’s a treat…well for me it is.

    Ever meet a kid raised in an RP marriage/household? That’s fun too.

    Put a kid from an unstable marriage into a stable marriage. Does he become stable? Probably not.

    There’s a lot lost in the overt world in which some prefer living.

  53. @ kfg

    The marriage, as, how I live marriage, has an impact on my children. My children are affected by marriage, not just being married.

    Perhaps I’m thinking woo-woo.

  54. @Eh Intellect: “Perhaps I’m thinking woo-woo.”

    No, you’re just failing to separate your parameters. In your own life that is no doubt OK, as the two are so closely aligned, but when talking to other men about the Red Pill it is an error.

  55. Ok. Got it. That was fun.

    That’s certainly a bias of mine. Caring less about definitions than how the general principle applies and how to apply it well, that is.

    I do appreciate the difference.

  56. http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42947383

    “So in the 50s there were a lot of these problems that we didn’t have. One of the reasons they were fewer is that the pill had not come along…. When it did come along, all of a sudden, because you could – you were expected to. Whereas beforehand, you were not expected to as you might get pregnant.”

    ‘Referring to the backlash levelled against her, Atwood said she was concerned that that was was “fairly standard” for anyone who says anything except, ‘I believe anything that a woman says’.” :: LOL

    “I think it’s quite dangerous to accord infallibility to any group – including men, Popes and women,”

    women say the darndest things

  57. “No, you’re just failing to separate your parameters.”

    I’m not sure I could in application.

  58. @EhIntellect

    “Perhaps this: “There’s no good reason for me to get married.” You’re extrapolating your life to everyone. Blax addressed this only just. I’d hope you reconsider dismissing the value of marriage. It’s not for you, of course. You’ve made it clear you’re unable to do that.”

    Fair point, I am extrapolating my life to advice for everyone. I’m more than willing to change my opinion when proven wrong, I just have yet to hear a compelling argument for marriage that outweighs the potential downside.

  59. Occasionally when women scorn having children or more children:

    They’ll say they’re done with 2 or 3 kids and give a litany of reasons why.

    I ask, “iJust for fun…if you had another daughter, what would you name her?”

    Almost always they refuse to answer. The thought of pre aborting their kid for all those temporal reasons chills them.

    So I ask you, Status Confirmed…if, just if, you WERE to have a son, what would you name him?

    I respect you enough and this is a great comment thread. Thank you for being so open to it.

    An aside not necessarily germane:

    I’ve had people claim reproduction limits to 2 or 3 kids mandatory for whatever reason. I say I have four and ask “Which one’s do you suppose I should kill to meet your goals? My youngest, oldest? Here’s a picture. You tell me. His name is x, her name is y.

    That’s a conversation ender.

  60. status c: an argument for marriage requires context:

    – holistic RP will permeate the entire man, which means he will have self knowledge and purpose in life beyond reproduction; this must happen first

    – if reproduction is a choice of purpose he makes, then marriage is only for having children as they benefit from an ‘official’ union and having a set of male/female parents to raise them: a family

    – keeping this union together as a family unit beneficial to children requires RP knowledge and skills, which will then be propagated across generations naturally

    but other than children, all other rewards/benefits for marriage (real or imagined) can be had without marriage and without the risk but as always, RP knowledge and skills are a must regardless

  61. Catching up here and just saw this:

    westray
    February 3, 2018 at 7:16 pm
    1. Rollo writes a great article
    2. Some guys try to discuss it and apply it to their own lives but before they can get the wheels off the ground….
    3. Blax, Sentient and other OMG’s repurpose the article into a discussion about how alpha they are.

    Every single time.

    Woooah! Hey man, if you want to AMOG those guys go for it. I’ll get some popcorn to watch that shit show. TRM isn’t first come first serve like the cafeteria when we were little kids at school. Here anybody can jump into the fray whenever they want. It’s a hot kitchen as Rollo has stated before. Personally, I would rather discuss the hot, hair pulling, and primal sex I had with my girlfriend all weekend long in a remote cabin, but that should be filed under Field Reports. Snark aside, don’t feel so bashful here. Nobody in our group of men is going to kick you in the nuts. Uncomfortable feelings do often arise after reading TRM. My eyes still burn a bit from reading Rollo, but much less often.

    http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/good-good-let-the-butthurt-flow-through-you.jpg

  62. @EhIntellect & dr zipper-

    If I had a son I would name him after my Dad.

    I think most of us would agree that a stable marriage benefits the kids.

    The marriage contract seems so unstable in our society (USA), and the potential downside so nasty, that success seems to rely on the man having really tight red pill game. If his game is that good, then perhaps he can make the case to a woman that they are better off behaving as husband and wife without involving the state by marrying.

    Essentially put it to her. Does she think a family court knows better than the two of them how to raise their kids if our romantic relationship comes to an end? Does she think they won’t be able to put aside their differences and put our kids first? Does she not trust him to always do his best for their kids, and by extension her, whether they succeed as a couple or not?

    Although family courts seem to favor women, is she willing to risk that court decisions may harm her and the kids as well? Is there a way to satisfy religious considerations without involving the state?

    Understand, I’m newly unplugged and I’ve never attempted a conversation like this. In my head this seems reasonable, but in the real world this approach may be crap. That’s why I find this thread helpful. I’ve concluded I was wrong on a lot of things. Input welcome.

  63. @status confirmed

    They’re great questions. Now ask yourself: will her answers be truthful, and will they hold true not just now, but always?

  64. “If his game is that good, then perhaps he can make the case to a woman…”

    No case to be made. Acta non verba isn’t just platitude. She’ll follow you to the end of the Earth and off just being all in on you.

    Are you?

    Naming your son after your Dad? Classic move. There’s immense consequence in that you know. Intuitively you value the power of lineage as every man does.

    It takes a lot of BP convincing to think otherwise.

    Dude. You’re on your way to RP brilliance.

  65. Well as long as this original post is about marriage and red pill, I think some important things that have been said bear repeating. Hopefully it clears up some slight confusion.

    Namely, some of us talking about marriage are talking from the perspective of already having been married for a long time and wanting to keep our marriages or LTR’s with valuable partners and are in a stage where our children are cool teenagers, or cool adults (or even when they are not yet to the cool adult phase). (And excuse EhIntellect for a brief moment, he’s never had anything else but an Apex great sex life with his wife. He reconstructed his relationship with her by bringing back his Alpha and ditching his betatiztion via Red Pill Awareness and Practice. And has some great children.) Some of us aren’t advocating marriage, even if we see a lot of value for it in our own paradigm.

    It goes like this in a former comment by BluePillProfessor (don’t get fooled by the name, he’s a red pill married academic that teaches a Blue Pill College Subject) from the Married Red Pill Reddit:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/18/are-you-experienced/comment-page-9/#comment-164864

    Big Al- I am happy you are participating in MRP but you may have missed the point and inadvertently given support to many “anti-MRP” Red Pillers. One of the main objections to MRP from Red Pill Guys is that it gives young men the idea that it can work so why not? Married Red Pill provides an excuse to get married and ignore the entire thrust of the Red Pill!!

    That is not, and never was the intention of Married Red Pill. We are ALREADY married and are making the best of it. We favor STAYING married, NOT GETTING married!

    Can you MAKE it work? You bet! Is it worth it to get married? Not a chance!

    Tell us, Big-Al. Tell us what advantage you get by legally committing to this girl. Tell us why you must marry her to provide her security or to raise your kids. Tell us the advantages of being married. Tell us why a totally one sided binding agreement that is legally enforced for EVERYTHING the woman wants and NOTHING for what the man wants is good for you.

    Also he recently has a thread going currently on Married Red Pill Reddit called: Guidelines and FAQ for MRP reddit(Updated January 26, 2018)

    An excerpt:

    Who are we? (MRP Redditors)

    Is that important? The REAL issue is: Who are YOU!

    We are men that subscribe to The Red Pill (TRP) philosophy of sexual strategy, and are dedicated to applying it in marriage or in Long Term Relationships. This sub was created independently to address the needs of married men to discuss relationships issues.

    Our approach is different from /r/relationships and /r/deadbedrooms because those don’t work. Instead, here we focus on how to become stronger men to lead our marriage and LTRs to happiness.

    Isn’t TRP against marriage?

    Our goal is to help newly unplugging men trapped in loveless, unhappy, low-sex marriages. By becoming stronger and more assertive men, they can bring a lot of happiness to their marriage and LTRs. We encourage men to grow in those areas before reaching the point to “next that bitch.” MRP was specifically created so that married, committed men could have a place to discuss marital issues without the younger crowd immediately howling: “NEEEXXXXT!”

    Once you are married, especially if you have a family, it is not so easy to “Next” your wife. So yes, Red Pill is against marriage because of the way it works in modern society. However, in MRP we are already married. We don’t support modern marriage, but we detest divorce even more. However, we no longer fear it.

Speak your mind

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