Mitch’s Red Pill

With apologies to my regular readers and commentariat, I’m mid-stream through crafting my next essay and what do I see in the comment feed from last week’s post? Our (our soon to be formerly) Purple Pill friend Mitch returning to give us all an update on what was supposed to be his inevitable married bliss. Rather than allow Mitch’s saga get buried under pages of comments I thought I’d post the continuation of his in-progress unplugging here for others to benefit from. Be sure you read the first case study before you dig into his update below:

Hello Gentlemen,

It’s good to be back here reading your insightful, intelligent, funny, actionable posts. I’ve been away for awhile. Glad to see Rollo’s blog and books doing so well. Congratulations sir, and I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my purple-but-slowly-turning-red heart for your work. I am now eating my previous words about this being ideological and cult-like. lol. Some might remember that I was the eponymous subject of one of Rollo’s posts on purple pill, and the ensuing discussion about whether I was setting myself up for slaughter in marrying a Ukrainian I’d met online. I (basically) said I’m a big boy now at 50, and know what I’m doing with women, and would let ya’ll know how it worked out. Not that anyone gives a rat’s ass after all my bullshit, but whatever, here I am.

Funny thing is that I’d been thinking about posting this update a few days ago, after reconnecting with TRM blog, and I would have said something along the lines of: she has been here almost 9 months, we been married for 5, going reasonably well, regular and enjoyable sex, she cooks everything from scratch and takes good care of me and the house; she’s diligently studying english, meeting people, etc, seems mostly happy; without fail she packs my lunch every night – once she woke up at about 1 am and remembered she had not made my lunch for work next day, and even though I told her not to worry about it, she got up, and went downstairs and *cooked* me lunch. Her responsibility, she said. She also genuinely likes me, and is very loving and affectionate and passionate in bed. We’ve had some conflict, and I’ve mostly held my ground, but made some fairly key concessions in the spirit of playing fair (since she has, in actuality at this point, zero leverage in this relationship), and accommodating her wants and needs.

And hypergamy doesn’t give a fuck.

Lo and behold, yesterday the computer is open and I see a ‘Hi’ come across the screen from Skype from a male. Open the Skype window and she’s been chatting with this dude from New Hampshire or some shit, not long, but the kind of bare bones swapping of details – the guy’s on hunt for a wife, and she’s asking about the size of his town, and what’s the weather like, how many kids, etc. As the blood drains from my face, the veil parts, I see it for what it is, and I realize without a shadow of a doubt, this shit is real. Complete with the subsequent hamstering and total lack of accountability following.

I don’t believe she was actually interacting with this guy with any conscious intent to find someone else, but clearly she thinks about it, and is willing to “play” with the idea, even at a time when she has sooo much to lose. I could withdraw my petition to get her a green card in two seconds, and she’s done. I think she was/is bored and enjoys the attention and validation, and sense of (diminishing) power that she has over men.

So now I need to figure out what to do. i am beyond grateful for Rollo’s work, this blog, and forum, and having internalized RP to the limited extent that I have, and know I need to do A LOT more. It’s pretty humbling to be 50 and need to be totally schooled in something so basic. It’s fricking amazing that I have managed to hide myself from this knowledge for so long.

Thank you.

[…]

I meant to also say that I have learned a ton from you guys, and really appreciate the time and energy that many of you spent last fall trying to get me to get my head out of my ass. What can I say, I need to learn the hard way. Truth is, though, you guys were so vehement about it, that it definitely helped me to keep myself in reserve and react a bit more strategically to her.

Just to preface here, my intent isn’t to be cruel or pop of with ‘I todja so’, but I think it’s very important for guys in the various stages of unplugging to see Mitch’s situation as a clinical example. I’m not trying to flame you or pillory you Mitch, but your situation does serve as a good example.

As I mentioned in the first post about Mitch, there is a visceral desire on the part of Purple Pill men to force fit the parts of Red Pill awareness into Blue Pill idealisms and personal convictions because they simple cannot face the abyss of what a full Red Pill awareness presents to the belief set that the Blue Pill has conditioned them for. It is truly awful to be confronted with unflattering truths about the nature of women as well as a man’s coming to realize he’s got to drop all of his previous idealism and create a new, positive, paradigm for himself based on Red Pill awareness. For a lot of men inured by the Blue Pill it’s just too horrible to let go of those hopes based in a false awareness of their experience.

Thus, we get tropes like “well, the Red Pill is true, but it’s okay to have ONEitis for a girl because my new awareness insulates me from the worst effects of it.” Mitch even began his first entreaty by claiming this woman was “the ONE.”

I’d like to encourage men who still want a good wife to look East. As in, Russia, Ukraine and other former USSR counties. I cannot begin to tell you how encouraged and revitalized I am by this woman I met – and by most of the women I met and interacted with before I found “the One.

Shades of Purple

I’m beginning to see that there are two varieties of Purple Pill men; the first is the guy whose revenue and wellbeing depends on his only accepting what the Red Pill presents to him in half-measure. These are the Man-Up, do the right thing moralists who only ever marginally warn against the nature of women while believing that the self-improvement imperative that the Red Pill represents to men will more than compensate for the very real dangers of a man not fully killing his inner Beta. These are usually the guys who at one time were solidly Red Pill and used that awareness to their personal benefit with women (and life), but at some stage their life’s circumstance demanded that they “change their ways” and shift back to believing that Blue Pill ideals can be had with Red Pill means. These are the men who follow The Script.

The second type of Purple Pill man is the one who never fully unplugged. I believe this was where Mitch was when I outlined his situation in the first essay. There is a certain class of men who simply cannot ignore the truths that the Red Pill presents to them, and they eagerly endorse the tenets and the understanding of women’s visceral natures. Hypergamy doesn’t care, they get the dynamics of Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks, they even believe they’ve come to terms with their own (often Beta) nature and what it is they believe is necessary to effect a change in their lives; yet there are aspects of that Red Pill awareness that they desperately want to reconcile with their long-held Blue Pill idealistic hopes. So, as a result, they attempt to discard or ignore whatever aspect of the Red Pill that isn’t conducive to making those old Blue Pill dreams come true.

For as long as I’ve been writing in the Manosphere I’ve always made a point of telling men never to use my marriage (or other Red Pill married men’s marriages) as some kind of template or goal to be had with Red Pill awareness. I realize that my own Red Pill marriage seems like some ideal to strive for, but what I think most unmarried single men need to consider is that, for the vast majority of men who’ve been able to unplug, remake themselves and employ an internalized understanding of Red Pill awareness within their marriages and in their families, these men do so in spite of themselves.

Very few men I know of, whom I’d say are Red Pill aware husbands and fathers, did not set out to be so. I have no doubt that in the future I’ll encounter men who were formerly Blue Pill and Beta who changed themselves, unplugged, became Red Pill aware, internalized it and used it to enter into a marriage wherein his Frame was always the primary and his wife intrinsically recognized it and was attracted to him because of it. I do hope this is eventually the case for some men, but as it stands now, the far more common occurrence is the Blue Pill, Beta husband who was “awakened while married” and turned his marriage back from the brink – if indeed that is the case at all. Even more commonly it is divorced men put through the ringer who unplugged post-divorce.

As I mentioned in the first case study about Mitch is his story is engaging because it so faithfully follows the progression of rationales Purple Pill men will use in order to hold fast to their old, comfortable mindset – in this case it’s the Blue Pill dream of an idyllic marriage had through Red Pill means.

One danger I think should be apparent to Red Pill men having to deal with a Purple Pill guy who’s hostile and resistant to what they’re trying to tell him is the potential disaster a Purple Pill man is setting himself up for in his inability to really stare at the abyss, work through the anger and hopelessness, and then recreate himself. This, I feel, is where that resistance stems from. It’s not so much an inability to acknowledge the truth of what real Red Pill intersexual dynamics is showing him, but rather how he will internalize, process and use that to create a better life for himself. So you get anger, not at the message as much as the messenger, when you tell him his sincere hopes are based on a Blue Pill interpretation of what a ‘good marriage’ is:

Lol…you guys can go fuck yourselves. I appreciate where ya’ll are coming from, though. Trying to save me from myself. And i appreciate how naive my post must sound to a bunch of hard core red pillers like yourselves. However, I am not nearly as inexperienced with women and LTR’s as ya’ll assume. I have learned a lot from red pill in general and this site in particular – it’s very insightful and helpful, and I’ve adjusted my attitude and posture toward women because of it. At the same time, though, it strikes me that many of you are taking on red pill ideas as a kind of ideology, and that’s its own kind of danger. The absolute certainty that ya’ll think you know all you need to know about me and my woman and my relationship from that very brief post is what I mean. As if red-pill theory, or whatever it is, completely and concisely explains the total dynamic between a man and woman. Red pill explains a lot of things really well, but certainly not the totality of the mystery that is between a man a woman in a marriage.

And yet, it does and it did.

If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I feel sorry for you. Red pill helps me tremendously in seeing more clearly what is going on. I totally get that I am a beta provider for her, that a large part of my appeal is what I can provide, and I get that she is turned on by alpha traits. Both of these things can coexist in the same person. Understanding this and what’s behind it makes me feel less anxious and insecure about that, because I’m more clear about what to do.

Also, being a beta provider does not make me a bitch. Providing for my woman and family is a large part of what makes me a man, and I derive great satisfaction and pride in doing so.
Also, I am not in any way “settling” for a 44 yo woman. Younger women were/are available to me, but that is not what i choose.

There’s a lot more to life than fucks and bucks, but if that’s all it is for you, then this is the type of woman you will attract. In a relationship, what you get is what you are. If I can’t find a way to live with an open heart, then I don’t know what the fucking point is. But, to each his own.

So, here we are. And again, it’s hard for this not to come off as a big ‘I toldja so’, but I think it’s even more important for Red Pill men who have it in them to want to help a Blue Pill guy unplug, or hell, just to even recognize the reasons why he’s in the personal circumstances he is, to remember that the Purple Pill guy is only lashing out because he fears the totality of the truth that Red Pill awareness brings into his life. As I always say, unplugging guys from the Matrix is dirty work, but I am genuinely glad to have Mitch back on track and hopefully he’s learned something from the experience. I think other Red Pill men should adopt the same spirit of welcoming a Blue/Purple Pill prodigal son back into the fold.

So that’s my take, but please feel free to comment on Mitch’s situation in the comments thread.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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anon
anon
6 years ago

“Societies revert to default settings during disasters and collapses. Defaults aren’t optimal.”

They do, and it isn’t.
But the default setting it going to depend on the community.
And communities that have no close connections turn more predatorial and destructive when disasters hit. Communities that form close connections come together more.

cheupez
6 years ago

Not. Talking about disaster and the like: The government cannot substitute husbands. First let me say that my heart goes out to the many affected by the Harvey disaster. But looking at a lot of the news coverage, many families appear to have no man around. I see bitter single women being interviewed on TV, shivering children on tow, screaming at news network microphones saying at the top of their shrill voices, “NO ONE CAME!” Polimen cannot play the role of husbands. There simply aint enough of them. I am reminded that America and the west in general MUST put… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
SFC Ton
6 years ago

Recenkty found myself slipping back to a purple pill mindset with my main plate/MLTR… this post resonated.
…….

It happens to the most of red pill men so don’t beat yourself

Now what you did do right is notice you were half stepping. That shit is golden because now you can fix your shit

ollieoxenfree1
6 years ago

@ShanksNes August 28th 2017 6:28pm

Exemplary post.

SFC Ton
6 years ago

For what it’s worth, been super impressed with the men in Huston. The locals and the guys who just showed up to take care of bidness.

I was in Canda when that shit started going down and the folks I talked to up there thought It was amazing as well

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Our entire society is organized around limited-time deals. Why is that? Do you see that as a good thing? When people have little or no stake in their communities/families they invest very little into them. Women invest in their kids. Men might invest in communities/families if there was a reason to. Men have been discouraged from investing in their communities and families because of legal supplication to the FI. No fault divorce. VAWA. Women being encouraged to accuse men of rape and abuse with no penalty for false accusations or requirement for evidence other than the accusation. Men are discouraged… Read more »

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

Just seen that Mitch left his browser open and the Ukrainicorn knows what’s up! And Mitch STILL thinks he can game her!! @ Mitch this is what checkmate looks like you have given her All the ammunition she needs to label you as an abuser to the legal system. I actually feel sorry for her, this business deal has turned a little sour for her and she’s rightfully thinking ” is the juice worth the squeeze ” with this cuck didn’t he understand what this was? I bet her skin crawls every time you go near her now and rightfully… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“Maybe society needs to start catering to men again.”

Blue pill dreaming. Men got what they had because they took it. And got what they have because they gave it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_a6Y7EJDc80

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Sentient

Put another way, maybe men would do better to cater to other men instead of catering to women. Oh, but sexism.

It’s sexist if you cater to men, but not sexist if you cater to women.

Marley
6 years ago

What we need is a good ol’ fashioned…um…patriarchy!

SFC Ton
6 years ago

Agreed Marley and that’s what men can have on the individual level once his frame is legit

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

@Mitch I think you found RP too late you are still a firmly plugged in blue pill beta. At this point I think the best option for you would be ‘Game Light’ aka beta game. Act like a beta provider in waiting ( shouldn’t be too hard ) focus on post wall chicks that are still fuckable act like the stand up dependable nice guy, but keep your emotions in check ( this will be the hard part for you) bang the shit out of them until they push for commitment and then onto the next Seriously I think this… Read more »

Marley
6 years ago

Sounds like a heavy lift for Mitch.

I think he should arrange to come home alone from this camping trip; then, somehow implicate Skype-boy in the “disappearance”.

Allllthough…..Svetlana’s use of Mitch’s laptop has taken away his plausible deniability. Oh, she’s good. She’s very good.

Yep. Mitch is fucked.

And not in a good way either.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“that’s what men can have on the individual level once his frame is legit”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTdvseWXN4A

“ya got to be it completely or it doesn’t work”

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Ton
For what it’s worth, been super impressed with the men in Huston. The locals and the guys who just showed up to take care of bidness.

Well, it helps when the state goveror doesn’t have a emotional meltdown, and FEMA doesn’t chase off the men in boats. Some big differences between Katrina and Harvey.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

GTR I don’t understand something – if the default behavior of a woman is to be with a man for some time, then switch to another man for some time, then switch again – why not organize society around this? As long as the time with a single man is enough to pop up one or two kids this would assure the existance of future generations. Dalrock calls this the “child support model” of “family”. It has been shown to produce a lot of bad effects, and the divorce / child support industry is a huge waste of money at… Read more »

SFC Ton
6 years ago

Lot more differences then that and it’s been interesting to semi watch unfold. Not that I love disasters but I love how they reveal what a man is made out of and I have studied how men in act in a shit storm above all else

Mr. Roboto
Mr. Roboto
6 years ago

@ Mitch Take a look of the principles of Game. https://illimitablemen.com/archives/understanding-the-red-pill/game/ #06 – Trust your gut. If your balls are tingling a bitch is probably gonna kick you in the balls. Don’t ignore your better instincts for a whiff of the pussy. If a bitch gives you alarm, stop the interaction, don’t argue, just leave. Guys ignore their gut because they’re in love or in lust. Compromise when you’re comfortable, do not compromise when you’re uncomfortable as when it gets thrown in your face, because you bent over too far backwards, you’re not just going to be angry at her… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Ton Lot more differences then that Yeah, lots. There haven’t been any California cops driving around Houston busting old ladies for their .32 revolver, like we saw in N.O. either. Looter wannabes seem a lot more restrained. But the first and most obvious: Greg Abbott didn’t have an emotional meltdown like Mary Kay did and FEMA let men with boats do what is needed. None of that “Us Feds sez you can’t help” stuff. and it’s been interesting to semi watch unfold. Not that I love disasters but I love how they reveal what a man is made out of… Read more »

SFC Ton
6 years ago

Yeah NO about what I suspected for the area and the people running things. A city so out of control it took military style operations to make things safe for 1st responders. The stories would be unbelievable if I wasn’t already familiar with how things play out

anon
anon
6 years ago

I’m not sure if this graph will work…but if it does you can see the comparison.
Demographics of New Orleans are much closer representation of GTR’s suggested model for social strategy.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/S1101SPHOUSE022095#0

anon
anon
6 years ago

It didn’t work….the graph can be edited to see the juxtaposition with Houston (Harris county specifically).

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago

Off topic though this was interesting
http://i.imgur.com/F0pI1dv.png

bluepillprofessor
6 years ago

Well Mitch, I am late to the party but help has finally arrived! https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill Yes, it is certainly possible for a man to continue riding the Ukrainicorn that you describe. No, I don’t think Mitch is a troll. We have clueless guys like this all the time over on MRP. Yes, plenty of guys on TRM are rabidly anti female and even more rabidly anti relationship. Think about why that might be the case. Yes I think getting caught surfing and compu-flirting is VERY, VERY serious BUT it is NOT a blanket justification for a divorce. If it were, there… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“All he needs are OPTIONS.”

The problem for Mitch is that at this point he’s already thrown most of his good ones into the sun.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Bluepillprof

“No it is not that unusual for a woman in a marriage to be looking for a backup guy.”

Mitch picked his wife out of a catalog, spent weeks negotiating the price, saw her in person twice, had sex under duress, paid and handed her the keys to everything while deluding himself he saw and mitigated risks. This isn’t a seven year itch or case of unhappy… This is a well devised business plan be executed to perfection…

By her.

comment image

Mitch is this stupid.

SFC Ton
6 years ago

In every buiness deal there is a sucker

If you can’t figure who the dupe is, it is you

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
IRL
IRL
6 years ago

Such a good thread. I’m just catching up and the quality & number of thought provoking comments is gold. I’m going to re-evaluate quite a few things in my life, I kid you not. Thanks to new commenters too, keep posting guys. But… how do you all find time to be up to speed with TRM you fuckers?!

@Rollo, thanks for this space. I think that’s your biggest achievement sir. Hat tip.

SFC Ton
6 years ago

I don’t watch tv etc which frees up an amazing amount of time

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Still trying to figure out what’s going on socially. Seems like men at the bars are constantly trying to con me. They have obvious social skills–more than I do, yet they try a little too hard to be friendly. One guy pours concrete and is connected locally with MMA promotion…another guy used to drive semis locally and promotes his wife in entertainment. A young guy who works in a body shop wants my time and I think he thinks he gets some social proof from me talking to him and maybe some wisdom. The young guy seems the most transparent…he… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
bluepillprofessor
6 years ago

Well Mitch, I am late to the party but help has finally arrived! https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill The MRP Reddit was basically created for morons like you who want to use Red Pill praxeology to work on the marriage without the continual advice from PUA’s and MGTOW’s to NEEEEXXXXXTTTTT! Yes, it is certainly possible for a man to continue riding the Ukrainicorn that you describe even though the facts are TERRIBLE as you describe. The guys are right you know. When she gets the Green Card her power will be even greater than it is now and you will be in an even… Read more »

Gaz
Gaz
6 years ago

@ Mitch “But I am not a naive little lamb offering myself for slaughter.” vs “Let that sink in. The theory goes that the sponsor should be held responsible for the costs of a foreign national who, say, goes on welfare after the break-up of a marriage. In that situation, the U.S. government may sue the sponsor to recover the costs involved. In one case I had not long ago, the government was pursuing my client as a sponsor for $90,000 in social services benefits that were incurred by the sponsored parties several years ago. The sponsor argued he should… Read more »

cheupez
6 years ago

Dread? I cant wait for this thread to pass. A professional husband hunter, takes a guy on the goose chase to Italy all expense paid for; zero desire. Is he going to wait till the hand appears and writes Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin?

theasdgamer
6 years ago

“In fact in a recent study more than 50% of married women have a backup guy.”

Also, in a recent study, 50% of first time marriages end in divorce.

pinelero
pinelero
6 years ago

Assuming she comes back from camping trip….We might just be his electronic alibi for all we know?

Mitch needs practical advice assuming he will go into the jaws of death (i.e marriage with a double government involvement in the form of a green card requirement to support her) like setting up trusts to protect his assets or something.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
6 years ago

If Mitch is not a fictional character or a troll, then he is fucked. Women love men who can GAME them, the naturals. But they hate men who have “learnt” GAME. That is why “the Fight Club” rule is quoted so often. Nastya is now aware that the tough guy macho stunts Mitch has been using on her are based on the help from commenters here at The Rational Male. Whatever little respect she had for him has evaporated in thin air after reading his little boy rants here, not now she will destroy him with glee without feeling any… Read more »

anon
anon
6 years ago

“Assuming she comes back from camping trip….”

FIFY

anon
anon
6 years ago

Oops…code fail.
Tried to strike out the ‘s’ there but it’s hard to see.

trackback

[…] a quote from Rollo Tomassi’s latest post which touches on this […]

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

I actually feel sorry for her, this business deal has turned a little sour for her and she’s rightfully thinking ” is the juice worth the squeeze ” with this cuck didn’t he understand what this was? I bet her skin crawls every time you go near her now and rightfully so, you have fucked this up so bad that I don’t know how she can justify staying long enough to secure the GC! Back from camping. We had a fantastic time. You guys have my situation so wrong, have been filing all kinds of ridiculous details based on your… Read more »

Moses
Moses
6 years ago

So now I need to figure out what to do. Hoo boy. Mitch still hasn’t learned. Other commenters have already said it. I’ll say it again: Your marriage is over. You can end it on your terms, or she will end it on her terms. It’s that simple. You found evidence she was talking to a strange man? Asking him qualifying questions like weather and kids? Good gravy, man, she will dump you as soon as something better comes along! Stop making excuses for her — man up and look into the abyss. Stuff like this is like cockroaches. Seeing… Read more »

Moses
Moses
6 years ago

Back from camping. We had a fantastic time. You guys have my situation so wrong, have been filing all kinds of ridiculous details based on your sorry pasts and paranoid imaginations. Glad I’m not you. Anyway, it was fun for awhile, but don’t think i’ll be providing the material for part 3 & 4 – since ya’ll already know what will happen, what’s the point. I know now what she was doing talking to that guy. I’m looking forward to many happy years with her. cheers guys. and good luck. Oh dear. Mitch truly deserves what’s coming, good and hard.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Lol. Scene!!!! Aaaannnnddd close the curtain.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Mitch is certainly one of those “nah man you just don’t get it. She only sucked his cock because she was drunk. She told me!” guys.

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

“Mitch” — you forbid him from posting, eh? Sounds like you locked down your GC for the price of a roll in a sleeping bag. You’ve added another data point to my hypothesis that all women are prostitutes. Relay my greetings to your “husband.”

anon
anon
6 years ago

ACT I
SCENE I:
Concludes as Mitch leaves in haughty huff.

SCENE II:
Mitch arrives months later, sharing his woes.

SCENE III:
Mitch again leaves in haughty huff.

(insert chorus in the there somewhere)

Mango
Mango
6 years ago
Reply to  anon

Welp…

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

No haughty huff here. I like you guys, but your diagnosis is just wrong wrt to my situation and my relationship, and you cannot help me. I appreciate you trying though, and I’m genuinely sorry if I wasted people’s time.

I’ll check out MRP, dr BP prof, I’ll take a gander at your stuff as well. Thanks.

Mango
Mango
6 years ago
Reply to  Mitch

Translation… “my situation is actually far worse because of details I have deliberately omitted. My iceberg actually goes very very deep.”

See you at the bottom of the ocean there “unsinkable”…

Hammerfest
Hammerfest
6 years ago

Mitch, You are either a troll or you are fucked. You stupid fucker.

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

Mitch, You are either a troll or you are fucked. You stupid fucker. It’s exactly this type of comment that has me realize that those of you making them are not nearly as experienced as you believe you are- regardless of your N-count and quality of such. Your experience is far more narrow than you are aware. This is the comment of an emotionally retarded person – the evidence for that being you cannot imagine any possibility outside of me either being totally fucked, or me being a troll. The reality is that a) I’m not a troll; and b)… Read more »

Mango
Mango
6 years ago
Reply to  Mitch

So what exactly are we missing guru guru?

Details!!!

Teach us…

Hold on, let me lean in…

Marley
6 years ago

“It is interesting that this bothers you guys so much. It’s like you can’t bear to have your view of reality challenged- it really, really pisses you off. (I did not come back here to challenge anyone, I was exactly where I said I was) You guys come here to the comments every day to have your view of reality validated and reinforced – and every new “convert” validates you. I see that you’re not really about helping other men, you’re about having your own view of reality reinforced, because otherwise you might start to ‘slip’. Hmmm. Also not the… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@Marley

In what way exactly do you think I am seeking validation and reinforcement in this forum?

Mango
Mango
6 years ago
Reply to  Mitch

Ukrainicorn- “I see by your responses online that are not like those other guys”

Mitch – “all my waiting has paid off, finally…”

Oh you are definitely not like other guys lol.

Marley
6 years ago

@MItch You ostensibly came here seeking advice regarding your relationship. When the answers didn’t match with what you wanted to hear, you got defensive. You keep saying that guys on here are being negative, and are that way because of all their bad experiences. That may be true (it certainly is in my case — I could never recommend marriage after my three failed experiences), but it doesn’t discount the fact that the best advice comes from those with experience. However your situation turns out, I think it would be of great service if you came back to share. One… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@marley

However your situation turns out, I think it would be of great service if you came back to share. One way or another, it will prove to be educational for everyone.

I’ll tell you what – I’ll come back and share if the outcome turns out to result in you guys being able to say “i toldja so”, otherwise I won’t bother because it’s pretty clear that you won’t believe or accept any result other than what you expect. So there really isn’t anything to learn.

Marley
6 years ago

@Mitch Don’t sell us short. We like a successful Field Report, too. Seriously, though, I wish you all the best luck. I could never do it again. I got a mild coal-raking last go-round and I count myself lucky to be where I am right now. I can’t imagine going through a divorce where the federal government comes looking to collect social program monies that they’d paid to my ex. Yikes! Don’t be a stranger. PS…@everyone: how the heck are you guys formatting your text? I tried copying and pasting from Word, but it always comes into here as plain… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

PS…@everyone: how the heck are you guys formatting your text? I tried copying and pasting from Word, but it always comes into here as plain text.

HTML codes before and after the sentences or words.

Dalrock had a recent post about that:

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/basic-tags-for-wordpress-comments/

Marley
6 years ago

HTML codes before and after the sentences or words.

Dalrock had a recent post about that:

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/basic-tags-for-wordpress-comments/

Awesome! Many thanks.

thedeti
6 years ago

Guys…..

Let Mitch go.

If he/she/it is a troll, then it doesn’t matter.

If Mitch is for real, then he’s one of millions who peered into the abyss and couldn’t bear to see what he saw.

Let the dead bury the dead. Rollo will say last rites for Mitch. Let those who want help, seek help.

Chazz Reinhold
Chazz Reinhold
6 years ago

I started to unplug very late, at 47. I was a blue pill nice guy poster boy. With all the knowledge I have today there is no way I could go a path like Mitch. Even if I wanted to I just couldnt do it anymore.

Chazz Reinhold
Chazz Reinhold
6 years ago

Finally I realized that something was very wrong with my perception of life and society. It didnt take long search to find TRM. Suddenly it all made sense. Once youve left the paradise of not being aware you cant turn back. A red pill man burned the bridges.

Incubus_Rising
Incubus_Rising
6 years ago

Score at the end of Part II:

Ukrainicorn 2 : TRP 0

Heimdall
Heimdall
6 years ago

Mitch, You fucking yourself does not bother us at all. We’re trying to save you some money so you’re not eating dog food when you’re retired. You stupid Fucker.

Moses
Moses
6 years ago

Good luck to you Mitch. More back and forth is pointless.

The cards are dealt. The hand will be played. Either you’re right, or the commenters here are right. Time will tell.

For posterity’s sake, come back here and do a final chapter.

Tin Man
6 years ago

I was lucky. I found a “great woman” after dating a few hags post divorce. I wasn’t lucky in finding her, that was easy. My good fortune came from the fact that before I could completely fall into the abyss (after professing my undying love), she decided to stop seeing me. Why? Because I wouldn’t move (we lived 3 hours apart from each other) and I wouldn’t stop talking with my (x)wife (we had to co-parent three kids, can’t do that without talking) and mostly because I told her in the beginning “I never want to financially support another woman”… Read more »

emillkim
emillkim
6 years ago

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/why-happy-people-cheat/537882/?utm_source=atlfb

This article was posted about indfidelity.
I think it’s a brilliant example of how people (particularly women) can be completely consciously clueless about their motivations but still unbelievable predicatable in their behavior.

I learned a ton from this blog and how that this can help BP folk realize it has nothing to do with you but everything to do with you.

emillkim
emillkim
6 years ago

Admittedly I believe the conclusions suck in this article. I wouldn’t stick around to fix and keep a wife/gf who needed to figure herself with someone else. Having said that, the woman got everything she wanted in her relationship. The author (therapist) believes it’s self discovery that was the whole point of her transgressions. My response is… So what? She got everything in the relationship and still felt at liberty to want more at the risk of everything. She picked what was safe and idealized, realizing only later she wants something else… What the fuck. Good for her but the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“The author (therapist) believes it’s self discovery that was the whole point of her transgressions.”

They always do.

emillkim
emillkim
6 years ago
Reply to  kfg

Right? He’s shoveling her bullshit

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@emillkim Thanks for posting that. That was a great cite, Esther Perel certainly seems to be the only non-fiction writer that actually has some semblance of a need to balance masculine and feminine sexual strategies, so that neither has to be compromised as much as it usually is. I like my Dr. Laura Schlessenger because she gives the finger to the Sisterhood of Feminism, but she rarely advocates for men’s sexual strategy because she is a girl. https://www.estherperel.com/about (I didn’t read Mating in Captivity.) “I wanted Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence to be an honest, enlightened, and provocative conversation… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

I screwed up the quote HTML This should have been quoted: “I learned a ton from this blog and how that this can help BP folk realize it has nothing to do with you but everything to do with you.” And then alternated with my comments that should not have been quoted. And then alternated back and forth And to the comment of emillkim September 7, 2017 at 3:59 pm. Perel definitely is not condoning the bad behavior of the protagonist in her essay. She is shedding awareness on how the protagonist fucked up. No one is saying the husband… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

Funny. I read mating in captivity years ago when trying to figure out how to revive dead bedroom in previous r’ship.

I think MRP is going to be very helpful.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

emillkim “Right? He’s shoveling her bullshit” If you are referring to the protagonist in Perel’s essay. No. The protagonist Priya is shoveling her own bullshit and her husband is unaware she is a bull-shit shoveler. Perel is calling her patient out on her bullshit, without labeling it as such. She would label it as ignorance, when Perel brings awareness to the psychoanalyst’s table. If the husband knew about it, he would kick her to the curb or get her to stop the shoveling, depending on his abilities and his valuing of her. (obviously in his case, if he were to… Read more »

pinelero
pinelero
6 years ago

Okay…here’s an article about guys trying to get Ukrainicorns and getting ripped off, so maybe Mitch is not the fool.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/apr/06/ukraine-wife-internet-romance-industry-online-scam

Or maybe these guys only lost a few thousands instead of having years of their life wasted, wages garnished in support of a divorced hypgameous UKrainicorn, and being subjected to the whims of the fathers/husbands to slave labor prisoners of the federal penal system.

Only time will tell.

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@pinelero The thing about cautionary tales like this article, in my opinion, is that they are just that. They are not predictive. I read stories like these in my researching the EE dating scene and they definitely helped inform how I went about it. What to watch out for. A key element in these guys getting fleeced is the pay-per-letter mechanism of interacting w these women, and/or the going through an agency that facilitates introductions. I used Elenas Models, a subscription service that works like any other online dating website. Not an easy place for women to make money. Possible,… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

* the youngest I talked to was 33

Marley
6 years ago

@Mitch Okay. So, first you say… The thing about cautionary tales like this article, in my opinion, is that they are just that. They are not predictive. Which would seem to nullify the value of such articles in your mind. But, then you say… I read stories like these in my researching the EE dating scene and they definitely helped inform how I went about it. What to watch out for. Which contradicts what you first said. How is it that one predictive article has value, but another does not? You’re right in saying that articles such as this are… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
6 years ago

@Mitch “(the apparent “branch swinging” she was engaged with was her being curious about why this guy, who she’s talked to a couple years ago, was now contacting her out of the blue. A number of her previous contacts have done this – popped up again after a couple years, and she finds it interesting as to why. I also don’t rule out a looking for Plan B motive, but her stated reasons are very congruent to her personality. ) Anyway, I tell ya I would do it again, and I would recomend.” Did she keep the same email with… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

We have Ukrainians and Russians and Polish and Serbian and Arab and Chinese and Japanese and Thai and Philippino and Indian and Brits and Aussies and Italian and German and French and African and pacific islanders and Canadian and native American and…. I’d bet no where else on the planet has the variety of women that we have right here in the USA. And if you’d travel to and spend time in major cities, especially New York, you’d find plenty that just got here.nthey come in every day like produce. I’ve never fully understood the desire to get on a… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

Marley, there’s nothing inconsistent in what I said. The cautionary tales have value, in that they informed my approach and gave clues as to what to watch out for, and what not to do. But they are not predictive – as in predicting that any man seeking a Ukrainian wife is going to get fleeced. I know from my own experience and that of other men that the outcome can be quite satisfying. And the extensive experience of men related here also has value for the same reasons, but also not predictive. How many men who have commented have actually… Read more »

Marley
6 years ago

@Mitch

I guess you’re right, Mitch. Ours is the advice of the ordinary, bitter man. How could we presume to wax philosophic on the special, snowflakiness of your situation?

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
6 years ago

@Mitch “Didn’t say it was ok, but she’s kind of a student of human nature,” We all are,just not all of us are writing a paper on human nature,you should take a cue from this gal and study up some. ” and her saying that it’s just interesting for her to try and understand what these guys are thinking is congruent with that.” Oh so she isn’t writing a paper?Is she tucking away facts for future reference? Is male pain,interest, just entertainment for this gal? Or is she studying hard numbers,financials,other prospects? ” Also, doesn’t mean I haven’t taken it… Read more »

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@blax I’d bet no where else on the planet has the variety of women that we have right here in the USA. Sure, but how do you actually filter in an efficient manner for what you are actually looking for? That was the crux of the problem for me. It just seemed like I had to shuck too many oysters to find the pearl, and it seemed like the EE dating site I stumbled on had a denser pool of potential pearls. It seemed that way to me. It definitely wouldn’t be the right choice for everybody, maybe not even… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@marley
Come on admit it, You’re a snowflake too, man.

Marley
6 years ago

@Mitch

Nope. Unfortunately, there are way too many guys with stories similar to mine. I’ll be fortunate if I’m able to absorb just a small amount of the wisdom that’s contained on this blog. And, I realize that, even at 59, I’m so far behind the power curve that I’d never presume to know better than these guys when it comes to intersexual relationship dynamics.

That seems to be the difference between you and me: I’m consciously incompetent; but, you’re unconsciously incompetent.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
6 years ago

@Mitch “Also, it makes absolutely no sense that at 45 yo, she’s actively or consciously looking to branch swing.” Let me get this straight,she is 45 and you are the biggest, strongest, most intelligent and fertile man she has ever met. She is so in love with you and wants to get old together. Hmm ! ” She’s an extremely beautiful women who spent 17 years looking for her next husband- both local and abroad- and she’s now invested 18 months building a relationship with me” With you and apparently a few others were likely prospects as well. What I… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

” She’s an extremely beautiful women who spent 17 years looking for her next husband

…using the husband-finder between her legs

Marley
6 years ago

VAGDAR

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

@marley You’re taking this way too literally or personally or something because you continue to not get what I’m saying. I’m not presuming that I know more about inter-sexual dynamics than other men on this blog – at all, and I’ve been very clear that I don’t understand RP theory all that deeply, and that I’ve got a lot to learn. I’ve said that over and over again. I don’t disagree with RP theory to the extent that I understand it. But no matter how RP proficient I ever become, I would never presume to *insist* that I know what’s… Read more »

Marley
6 years ago

“Everything before the word ‘but’ is horseshit.”

Marley
6 years ago

@Mitch

Why, then, if you feel that way, do you come here?

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

Stuffin
Let me get this straight,she is 45 and you are the biggest, strongest, most intelligent and fertile man she has ever met.

I’m sure I’m not the biggest, strongest and most fertile man she’s ever met. I probably compete very well in intelligence, tho. But out of all the men that have invited her to marry, and there have been quite a few- I have the best overall collection of qualities that she is looking for in a ltr at this point in her life. No need to stretch the imagination here.

Mitch
Mitch
6 years ago

Marley, dunno why I come here. Do you only like interacting with people who see things exactly like you do?

Marley
6 years ago

Absolutely not. Which is why I come here. I was raised on decades-worth of Blue Pill “wisdom” and need to hear just the opposite now.

The last thing you’ll hear me do is ask for advice, then vehemently argue why what I’ve been given is wrong. That disingenuous. The person who does that is the person who wants to hear praise for “getting it right”.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
6 years ago

@Mitch “I’m sure I’m not the biggest, strongest and most fertile man she’s ever met. I probably compete very well in intelligence, tho. But out of all the men that have invited her to marry, and there have been quite a few- I have the best overall collection of qualities that she is looking for in a ltr at this point in her life. No need to stretch the imagination here.” Sorry Mitch I guess I left out good lookin and intelligent. Maybe that after 45 years if a man is smart enough not to loose it in a poker… Read more »

Italy***7
Italy***7
6 years ago

@Mitch

“but out of the ones I found attractive the vast majority were either entitled and/or narcissistic, and/or too slutty for my taste. Not all by any means, but far too many.”

Sure they are. Power skews the mind, and inflates the ego. And comeliness is power.

If what you find MOST attractive in women will be non-entitlement and non-narcissism, you’ll stop having to deal with over-entitled narcissists… 🙂

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