This week my fellow 21 Convention speaker and good friend Goldmund posted a very poignant essay about his experience stealing a girl away from her Blue Pill orbiter for a same night lay. I’ll paraphrase a bit of it here as I riff on it, but do click over to his blog and read the entire exchange.
Before I do though, let me first begin by stating that I have been the Blue Pill orbiter Goldmund describes here. I think too many readers seem to think I write from some position of Alpha authority; as if I’ve always been the lesser Alpha I am today. I’m sorry if this disillusions anyone, but I’ve run the gamut from being a well-conditioned Blue Pill Beta, to being a verified-by-social proof rock star Alpha, to dropping almost into an Omega status with a BPD girlfriend, to maturing into a Red Pill aware, lesser Alpha I would humbly think of myself as today.
A lot of critics, and even a handful of Red Pill men I know, have a real tough time with what they believe are arbitrary terms – Alpha, Beta, Omega, Blue/Red Pill, etc. – but let me reiterate here that these terms have always been abstracts. They are placeholder words for larger ideas, not binary definitions. A lot of critics also, erroneously, believe that Blue Pill, Beta, Omega, White Knight, etc. are some dismissive insult to end a conversation with, rather than, again, the abstract terms used to describe a man’s condition. I’ve made it clear in prior posts that being Beta or Blue Pill isn’t a life sentence, and neither should it merit our scorn beyond the ignorance that man happens to be a subject of.
I’m prefacing this here because sometimes it’s hard to look at ourselves, or our past selves, from the perspective of a guy who is enduring the same Blue Pill conditioned delusions we had. The Blue Pill orbiter’s role in Goldmund’s story here is a guy I’m sure most Red Pill men can somewhat empathize (if not sympathize) with because they were this guy also. They made the same decisions based on the same foolish Blue Pill preconceptions about women, and due to the same ignorance and lack of any Red Pill awareness we once had. So in this respect, try to understand the following from an objective perspective of what it was like to be that ‘hopeless Blue Pill orbiter’ basing decisions on old books social understanding.
To outline the story briefly, Goldmund was invited to socialize with a friend and what he’d thought was a couple; a nice looking 23 year old woman and her dutiful Beta ‘pseudo-husband’ (edited for content):
It was Sunday evening, the weather was pleasant, and being around a group of great guys who were eager to learn had me in extra fine spirits. A text came in from a friend who said he was hosting some people from out of town and wanted me to join them all for dinner. I met them at a restaurant and sat down to eat.
At first I thought the two attractive people he was hosting were a couple. They were both from Australia and sitting next to each other at the table. I noticed that the guy was catering to the girl, not standing his ground in conversation, and ended up paying for her.
After dinner we all went to a bar where a band was playing, the girl came over to me and we started to chat. I immediately asked her “so, is that your husband?” and she responded with “oh, no, he’s just a friend” and gave a hungry ‘save me’ look.
[…] The Australian guy stood next to the girl while I walked closer to the front, and after the first song, I looked back and waved her over. She came right away and the guy glared at me like I was Satan.
She stood right in front of me and began dancing a little. While I rubbed my crotch on her wiggling ass, my hands went to her hips, then felt up her flat stomach before caressing her big boobs.
I said into her ear, “I’m going to take you on a date right now” and she looked back and smiled.
At this point you can probably see where this is going. One thing I think is very important to point out here is that Beta male orbiters of most stripes can simultaneously end up being their own worst enemies while reinforcing the Alpha impression of his sexual competitors. In most cases, that orbiter’s status is set in woman’s hindbrain and as such any other man’s status whom she happens to encounter is measured against his. Game savvy men should (usually do) know that Beta orbiters are an opportunity to establish an implied social proof. Orbiters actually strengthen your Game and SMV because of his baseline status and subconscious comparing of Hypergamous options.
Women want men who other men want to be and other women want to fuck. Whether it’s actually true or not, to a woman’s mind, her impression of your orbiter’s status means you are a man who wants to be like the competing Alpha – the guy who she and other women want to fuck.
In most instances there’s no real reason to AMOG an orbiter. We’ll get to this in a bit, but understand now that most orbiters are unwitting volunteers in aiding a Red Pill, Game aware, man boost his signal, so to speak, by complaining, doubting and criticizing the efficacy (or ethics) of it. In doing so, his less (or non) competitive status is also reinforced with every positive response a woman returns for that Red Pill awareness.
Remember, stay objective here, focus on what’s transpiring and why it’s working. Whether you’re the Blue Pill orbiter or the Red Pill seducer in a scenario like this, the real education comes from observing the process.
Goldmund continues:
We went to the back of the venue, and my friend came up to me and said “hey man, listen, that guy is really upset that you are hitting on the girl”.
“Well she surely isn’t going to fuck him, they aren’t together”
“Yeah, but he paid for her to come out to New York [from Australia], and last night, he told her that he loved her”
I couldn’t help but burst out laughing.
While this conversation was going on, the guy went up to the girl and begged her not to leave with me. At this point, I despised him, especially after my friend informed me that he had referred to me as ‘a creepy predator’, and wanted to teach him a lesson that stung. Especially since he was taller, better looking, and much more arrogant than me.
Right about here you’ll probably have a real tough time with the ethics of this scenario, but lets run down a few of the facts we know at this stage. First, ‘Pseudo-Husband’ is now the kind of Beta who pays for non-interested, or semi-interested women to go on international trips with him. This in itself is material for an entire post, but any Red Pill aware guy knows the mindset of the Beta sexual resource exchange – also known as the Savior Schema.
Just as an aside, I think this schema becomes all the more interesting when you account for the Sugar Babies companionship/sex dynamic going on today. It might be easy to think a Sugar Daddy paying for a woman’s exclusive attention would simply vote that girl off the island by closing his wallet, but when you mix pride, alcohol, Beta Game and expectation-but-not-expectation of sex with a Sugar Baby, well, that can make for a very volatile outcome. There’s a certain expectation of ROI when you pay for a woman’s international vacation.
Obviously Goldmund’s approach shifts at this stage, but, being the seasoned seduction artist he is, he has more than enough intel on the guy and IOIs from the girl to get the lay. At this point I expect Goldmund made it personal, but we’ll discuss this towards the end.
‘Pseudo-Husband’s’ impression of Goldmund as “creepy predator” is another tell as to his Blue Pill conditioned mindset. “Creepy predator” is fem-speak. It’s what I expect to hear come from a woman’s mouth, but when it comes from a man it’s a giveaway as to his conditioning; in this case feminine-primary.
As I’d rather not copy and paste all of Goldmund’s story here, I’ll ask that you read the sexual details on his site. Suffice it to say Goldmund expertly Games this woman and has quick-hit sex with her at the venue they were at. However, to continue with the analysis of this girl’s orbiter, let’s skip ahead to some select quotes:
Her face was red and we had been gone for about 20 minutes, so when we returned to the table, I’m 100% sure that everyone knew what just went down. The guy didn’t say a word while the rest of us chatted about sex over drinks, and when I got up to go home, he didn’t say goodbye. As I was leaving I told my friend to mention The Rational Male to him.
Major lessons found in this one, and they are so clear because a few years ago, I could picture myself being in the loser’s situation (I wouldn’t go so far as to pay for a chick to fly across the world, but I’ve done some extremely pathetic things in attempts to woo girls).
Game taught me that girls are incredibly sexual creatures, love being dirty, think about sex often, need it, and want to get fucked by men who are wild.
I’m sure the Australian guy never thought the girl was capable of having sex in a bar bathroom by a stranger, yet it happened right under his nose. Its hard to think of a bigger example of getting friend-zoned than this guy who had spent 1000s of dollars on the girl to confess his ‘love’ for her, only to be cucked by some Playboy she just met.
I think this is one of the hardest lessons a Blue Pill man has to learn before he understands the importance of being Red Pill aware. Most ‘Nice Guy’ orbiters/friends never really need to be AMOG’d by a sexual rival because they’re ignorant of the nature of Hypergamy. Even the ones who’ve experienced it personally from a woman, or having it flaunted in their face via commercial Open Hypergamy, these men still want their dream girl to somehow be different. Many a White Knight has been knocked from his horse after having the truth of women’s sexual natures viscerally illustrated for him. It’s the guys who go into denial, who fall back on the “Quality Woman” rationale and get back on the white horse who are truly lost.
I’ve been friend-zoned before and remember it being some of the most frustrating, mentally clouding times of my life. This guy was seething with anger so bad, he couldn’t even speak–or attempt to fight. The friend-zone is anguishing. Overcoming it happened when I started reading stories like the one above, started assuming every girl has slutty tendencies and will use weak guys for money, attention, gifts, or whatever it is that they are lacking.
Having your Blue Pill ego-investments dispelled in such a brutal fashion often leads to two types of misdirected anger: anger at the sexual rival who just schooled you in the most personal way about women’s Hypergamous sexual natures, and anger with a woman (or women) who are simply incapable of appreciating, or abiding, by the old social contracts, the old books he believes they ought to be.
This anger is not so much about a loss of investment as it is about a Blue Pill man having his inner world destroyed by outer world facts.
There was a point in my own life when I was something very similar to the Australian guy. I’m glad Goldmund mentioned my site and books to this guy’s friend because I’m still hopeful for men like this. I’ve had a few men in my Red Pill sphere tell me I ought not to care about men who don’t want, or don’t know how, to intrasexually compete; either due to their arrogance or ignorance. But that’s not what my goal is. While I understand that sometimes it’s necessary to Ghost on men at times, that’s never going to be my first impulse.
If the dude was cool about the situation and humble enough to talk to me like an adult about it, I would have gladly given him some advice and probably just got the girls number at some point and arranged to meet her privately.
Ego is the reason most people stay bluepill, you have to be honest with yourself and admit when something is wrong. And then find ways to fix it.
Hypergamy and Evolution want Hoes Before Bros
I understand Goldmund’s sentiment here. About 9 months, maybe a year ago I ran a Twitter poll asking whether it should be considered a Red Pill aware man’s duty to educate Beta men about their Blue Pill beliefs and why it’s the source of a lot of their troubles. For the most part, the consensus was that men should help other guys. That’s encouraging, but it’s also not always advisable. I find it fascinating that despite all of the attraction and arousal Red Pill aware men can knowingly generate in women with Dark Triad personality traits, they still believe they can compartmentalize those traits when it comes to helping their fellow man.
Should Goldmund have backed off this girl out of respect for a man who was obviously trapped in a Blue Pill negative feedback loop with her? Or did he do both him and her a favor?
I’ve personally had one of my best friends bang a girl I was locked in the friendzone with. This was a girl I’d tried for months to get her to sexually respond to my pathetically Blue Pill “I really care” Beta Game. I vividly remember (I was 19) the night I introduced him to her and so began a literal fuck-fest between the two of them that lasted about 2 months after only meeting for an hour that night. It was a hard kick in the teeth to take, one my friend and the girl showed absolutely no remorse or regret for, but it taught me a very valuable lesson. All the bullshit about “bros before hoes” all the idealistic pretty Blue Pill lies I believed about being friends and comfort first before sex went right out the window that week – where they belonged.
Personally it was hard to take, but objectively it was exactly what I needed to experience. I think this is a hard line for even a lot of Red Pill men to really cross today. Granted, I expect Goldmund was really into banging this girl that night more than he wanted to teach this guy some object lesson, but I think it’s going to be a really difficult area for Red Pill guys to sort out for themselves when it comes to “helping” Blue Pill guys unplug.
I’m reminded of the story about the guy who taped the note about banging another guy’s girlfriend under the toilet seat.
What is a Red Pill aware man’s ethical responsibility to Blue Pill men?
This is a two-part series of posts. In the next post I’ll consider how Red Pill men might deal with Blue Pill men in non-sexually competitive situations, and the advantages and dangers you might encounter.
Roused, you really are a douchebag, wow.
Keith, no idea who Mitch is, but I’m not him. Sorry.
kfg, Western civ values, hmmmm… where do those lead? Looks like that’s working out well today.. They really don’t stand up for themselves and will be part of the caliphate soon enough.
I’ll take my Sicilian barbaric values any day. At least we fight back.
kfg, “basic, inchoate style of argument.” Ha, look at you! Who the fuck do you think you are, big boy? You’re like a fking schizophrenic, one minute communicating rationally, the next insulting my ethnic heritage.
You’re a fucking basket case.
“They really don’t stand up for themselves and will be part of the caliphate soon enough.”
Although there were some continentals who made a name for themselves resisting the caliphate, my own ancestors among them, they have been dead a long time. I consider it a matter of some concern, but do not consider this the place to generally address them.
Try taking it to http://gatesofvienna.net/ or http://voxday.blogspot.com/
Although the latter can make this kitchen look positively Arctic and you should be prepared to spend a lot of time feeling dissed.
Vox Day is rational and makes sense. You guys, on the other hand, have a definite collective screw loose, at least among the regulars.
It’s incredible that such a good, insightful blog could have such sick, mentally disturbed commenters. I’ve pointed out to Rollo that you guys are ruining the credibility of his blog with your attitudes, but he’s ok with it, so that’s that.
It’s a shame, really.
Kid Jupiter
Guy paid for her to come out, guy deserves to be treated with respect
Why?
SFC Ton
“So being discrete makes it OK?
Fucking hypocrite”
You nailed it shut right here brother!
stuffinbox
This chick brought in a 71 stang running bad.
Her car or someone else’s?
Kid Jupiter
My assertion was Goldman did it all wrong. No class.
So you did miss the entire point of the OP after all? Thanks for clearing that up.
Anonymous Reader, because I said so.
“Vox Day is rational and makes sense.”
He says you have to go back.
Did I miss the entire point of the OP? Huh?
You know, at this point, I feel like Andre the Giant when he’d fight and defeat three normal-sized guys, and stack them all up and sit on them for the 3 count.
Except I’m doing it with a lot more than 3 of you.
Awesome blog, horrendous commentariat.
@AR
It was hers in 1984.
Dizzying intellect.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0&w=560&h=315%5D
Kid Jupiter, your whole argument boils down to this: “I admit women are That Way, but they ought not to be That Way”. Mozart wrote an entire opera, set in Naples Così fan tutte, ossia La scuola degli amanti (Thus Do They All, or The School for Lovers) AKA “They are all Like That / That Way”. https://infogalactic.com/info/Cos%C3%AC_fan_tutte Is this something that Mozart ran across in the 18th century, or was it older? Mozart and Da Ponte use the theme of “fiancée swapping”, which dates back to the 13th century; notable earlier versions are found in Boccaccio’s Decameron and Shakespeare’s… Read more »
Anonymous Reader, because I said so.
Reality disagrees. Do you fight with reality often? Do you win?
I got the the point of the OP, loud and clear. I added my two cents to it. Do you have a problem with that? Do I have to add you to the Andre stack up, too?
Not reality when I’m around. That would’ve been handled real quick.
Kid Jupiter
Did I miss the entire point of the OP? Huh?
Looks that way. You could try again to tell us how Goldmund ought not to have hooked up with that Aussie girl and she ought to have mate-guarded herself for a man who wasn’t her mate, thereby confirming it. Again.
Not reality when I’m around. That would’ve been handled real quick.
Gee, that’s great. So what? You can bellow “Women ought to be the way I want them to be” all you want.
But Cosi fan Tutti.
Kid Jupiter
I got the the point of the OP, loud and clear.
No. You did not.
I added my two cents to it.
Yes, and so skillfully that many men are laughing at your ineptness. Participation trophy?
Do you have a problem with that?
Your dance around the actual point with your “ought! ought! ought!” is somewhat entertaining.
But only somewhat.
I didn’t say he ought not have hooked up with her. I said he shouldn’t have done it there. Reading comprehension. Work on it.
As I’ve said, being that he displays psychopathic traits, he would need the boundary enforced from without, as a trait of psychopathy is a lack of personally-generated boundaries.
As far as her, she’s a chick. All boundaries must be externally enforced. Hypergamy doesn’t care, remember?
None of you would be up to the task of enforcing a boundary on either, apparently.
Which “many men” are laughing? You? Kfg? ASD, dancing with his Mrs. ASD and gaming other women, or whatever the hell he does?
You’re all lost, who cares if you’re laughing?
I didn’t say he ought not have hooked up with her. I said he shouldn’t have done it there.
“Ought” vs. “Is” yet again. Is this the 10th or 12th time you’ve missed the point of the OP?
Cosi fan Tutti.
You’re all lost, who cares if you’re laughing?
Not all who wander are lost.
“Ought” was your word, genius. I was quoting you. Go re-read.
This post is extremely nuanced. The main thing I get from this is “don’t be that (Aussie) guy”. The shoulda coulda wouldas are all very entertaining, but I think beside the point. It might be fun to consider stuff like whether or not the Aussie should have left her swinging in the wind after locking her out of his place, cancelling her return flight ticket or whatever. But the abject lesson I get is that you will be eminently fucked over if you seriously believe that women and men, whether they are strangers or friends, will play by whatever sense… Read more »
Richard Overton back in the news. A lot of birthday gifts for the 111 year old man.
https://www.dallasnews.com/life/life/2017/06/02/age-111-americas-oldest-veteran-still-smoking-cigars-drinking-whiskey-loving-life
He was in the hospital recently for pneumonia.
Overton prayed and flirted with nurses. Four days later, he was back where he wanted to be, on his stage with the birds and two packs of cigars.
Too bad he never had children, because it would be interesting to see what grandkids looked like.
Kit Jupiter
I didn’t say he ought not have hooked up with her. I said he shouldn’t have done it there.
Then some other Kid Jupiter
“Ought” was your word, genius.
Kid, arguing with yourself is a step down from arguing with reality. Just saying.
Mineter
The main thing I get from this is “don’t be that (Aussie) guy”.
There is that for sure. There’s also Cossi fan Tutti. It is testable, as multiple men here can vouch.
“Kid Jupiter, your whole argument boils down to this: “I admit women are That Way, but they ought not to be That Way”.”
Your words, shit head. Your post. I merely used your chosen word “ought.”
Now, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
Roused (or anyone really)-
Clarification question: how is discretion – in this case or otherwise- passive aggressive?
Because, in this case the end results are exactly the same. It’s just that discretion comes with built in justification of some manner of implied morality.
Shooting someone in the back of the head is violent and overt. Starving them to death is ” more discrete “. End results= same… Lol. One makes you a murdering, cold blooded killer, the other makes you woefully neglectful.
Moral high ground achieved.
Personally, I’m all about efficiency.
@Kid Gamma
Now, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
I wish you’d follow your own advice.
ASD,
Cool story, bro.
Tell me another, ladykiller.
Blax- nice job re 240-200
I’m 195 from 215 & still going-
Now if I could just cut out the bourbon…
@ AR Good to see you mang. @ Kid I understand your argument, and in many ways it is valid. It’s just not realistic. A man has to deal with the terrain before him. Adaptation is always your friend. One can never be too stubborn in the face of facts. Women play by their own rules by choice and biology. They are highly reactive to their environment. True enough, the current environment is massively fucked up, and yes, it would be better if things weren’t the way they are currently, but I submit to you that the base nature of… Read more »
Blax, I appreciate that you replied civilly to me, so I’ll extend the same to you in return. I agree and disagree with you at the same time, on different points. Goldmund was able to get away with what he did because no one stopped him. The attempts at stopping him were, indeed passive-aggressive and weak; the friend weakly approaching him about it and the Aussie limp-wristedly calling him a ‘predator’ or whatever. I’m not saying the Aussie didn’t deserve to have the girl wander away from him, but he should’ve been more assertive about defending his honor and pride,… Read more »
“It’s just that discretion comes with built in justification of some manner of implied morality.” It isn’t honorare, something which is given. It’s facies, something which one has. In English, face, or . . . facade. In a meritocratic (“egalitarian”) society, accolades (honor) must be earned by action. Moral action brings honor. Immoral action brings dishonor.. In an “Honor” Culture you are born with a face. It is a birthright which must be defended against loss. In an Honor Clan culture, the clan is the basic unit of society, not the individual. Anything that happens to an individual happens to… Read more »
I grew up in the Ulster-Scots honor cultre of Appalachia, where you fight over eveything, spent years in the military socom honor culture and am no strangers to 1% MC life’s honor culture. It’s a subject I have lived, still live and been exposed to all over the world The only people who diminished the Aussie beta and Blax’s former freinds status is themselves, by not aggressively going after what they want. Lashing out on anyone else is pure butt hurt beta I reckon it ain’t the Sicilian blood but the naval officer father. Officers are basically the most useless… Read more »
“Stopping Goldmund (aka ‘cockblocking’ him) in that scenario would’ve required a more overt confrontation . . .”
Is it your position that they ought to have done so?
“I never asserted that G should’ve respected Aussie’s ‘feelz’. Where are you coming up with that?”
From the fact that it is innate in everything you have said about his honor.
“Are you suggesting we abandon any sense of civility and baseline social mores and act like animals?”
Are you suggesting that if you should live in Rome you should berate the Romans for living all wrong?
Vox Day is a spoiled beta brat with delusions of grander
And I am being generous
Thanks Stuff! But AR wins the Internet with “Participation trophy?”
That’s fucking brilliant in 2 words
Goldmund’s inability or unwillingness to set a personal boundary of appropriate behavior in that social setting is demonstrative of a psychopathic trait. So by this logic if Goldmund had got her number, hooked up with her the following day, without the overt knowledge of Aussie Beta he would cease to be a “psychopath”? I would argue that perhaps the only way G could’ve nailed the girl was because of the immediacy and urgency of the environment – “I’m gonna take you on a date right now”. She was already interested in him from the 1st minute. His audacity was that… Read more »
SFC, NCOs, like yourself, are mostly a short-sighted, hot-headed mess; uncouth, with no training in civil behavior. Without trained officers to command and guide you, issuing orders through their Chief Petty Officers / Master Sgts and Sgt Majors, you’d dawdle aimlessly, like rudderless ships. kfg, Yes, it is my position that they should’ve done so. I would’ve done so, as it’s an offense to my sensibilities. If I were the host/friend who invited Goldmund, I’d have thrown him out of the group. You don’t disrupt my social gathering in this uncouth manner. Don’t put words in my mouth, either, pal;… Read more »
@ Ton
Lol. Luv you man. ( absolutely No Homo intended )
@ Kid
” personal boundaries ” are just that, personal. I’m not bound by another Man’s personal boundaries unless he is willing and able to enforce his boundaries upon me.
“Vox Day is a spoiled beta brat with delusions of grander”
Like a few others (Roosh and Matt Forney come to mind), he made an error in maintaining his image when he went to live video.
LOL right back at you Blax
Roosh always reeked of butt sore beta to me then he confirmed it when he was bitching about women in some local I got laid like tile. It ain’t the women sparky, it’s you
@ Rollo At the end of the day, Goldmund was perfectly within his rights to take full advantage of a situation that was favorable to him. He made a choice that was in line with the urgency before him. If I got hold of some insider trading info, you can bet your ass I’m going to take advantage of it without concern that my personal actions won’t benefit wider society. Moral judgement calls won’t matter when I’m busy yacht shopping. Being red pill aware doesn’t lend itself to ” right and wrong ” regarding intersexual relations and competition. It’s up… Read more »
Which is why they gives us LT’s to train or in SMU’s officers can be subordinates on your team
This ain’t the 1700’s sparky, or a Richard Sharpe novella but good try…. like gamer you need less butt sore beta vibe. The trying to hard thing is pure fail
Blax,
@ Kid
” personal boundaries ” are just that, personal. I’m not bound by another Man’s personal boundaries unless he is willing and able to enforce his boundaries upon me.
——
You can be rest assured, I would be willing – and quite able – to enforce my boundaries on you, should you have tried to pull a Goldmund.
SFC,
And the tough guy, grizzled vet vibe is pure fail. Try again, Gamma Boy Sparky.
@KJ: “Yes, it is my position that they should’ve done so.”
Q.E.D.
“it’s an offense to my sensibilities.”
i.e. it hurts your feelings.
I’m not putting words in your mouth here. I’m telling you what your words mean, as your frustration at people “not reading” what you have written is founded in your not knowing what you have written means.
And the mutually exclusive axioms don’t help much either.
kfg,
Self-portrait?
Hit the gym, quickly.
LOL someone went to feminist insult school with the predictable results
Awesome! I have a new favorite bitch
“My assertion is that boundaries and checks on women’s hypergamic behavior must come from OUTSIDE of her, just like boundaries and checks on psychopathic behavior; they both inherently lack the ability to set their own boundaries. Unfortunately, those checks don’t seem to be happening anymore.”
Aussie’s check on her should have been that she was so enamored with him, and wanting to fuck him, that she would have ignored Goldmund. Had Aussie fucked her sufficiently before dinner her vag would have been sore and not wanting more dick. That would have been a natural boundary on her hypergamy.
SFC,
Bring it on, faggot! I’ll add you to my Andre stack. You’ll be the fifth loser on there. Pony up, show me what you got, bitch!
kfg,
You don’t even know what you mean most of the time, you just yap. Now you’re going to tell me what I mean? Get the fuck out of here.
Sensibilities doesn’t necessarily mean feelings. In this case, it would mean disrupting my social gathering with your own bullshit. But you could get your ass kicked for offending either.
Take your pick, prick.
LOL awesome and more awesomener
Rollo,
Given this back-and-forth on this topic, I have a feeling you might quote me for the next installment or a future post.
If you do so, I only ask that you accurately portray what I’m asserting, because there still seems to be some confusion, whether real or feigned – including on your part.
If you do so, I’d be happy to clarify with you privately.
Don’t count on it. I’ve addressed the same predictable issues of ethics you relate in all your comments in many other prior posts and (apparently unsuccessfully) attempted to preempt them in the first part of this post.
https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/28/humanism-behaviorism-and-the-amorality-of-game/
This is better entertainment than leadership training,etiquette school and the wwf all rolled together in one.
@KillJoy
You can’t even accurately portray what you are asserting.
Why are you so invested in what you are trying to assert?
And what is your end game?
Did you even read the ‘Our Sister’s Keeper’ essay, or were you expending too much of your time trying to assert your ideas?
SJF, I read it, and I’d already read it. I’m a regular reader of RM, I’ve read and re-read the entire blog and both books. I’ve pondered these RP issues extensively. I’m injecting another important, relevant dimension into your usual tough guy “Alpha Male” dick measuring contest echo-chamber. Something else to ponder, another angle. Many of you ridicule me and my points, you don’t want to sit for even a minute and ponder what I’m getting at. That;s what I’m invested and stick to my guns, even with 5, 6, 7 of you attacking me. I keep going, like Trump.… Read more »
You don’t realize it yet, but you are not actually discussing. You are attempting to lecture to the commentariat. And it appears you are throwing stones into the fog and attempting to believe it will leave a mark. It’s not, actually.
And “echo chamber” is a tired expression. “Masculine thoughts that resonate with the commentariat” is a more appropriate moniker. You are by free will placing yourself outside the present tribe.
It’s not about the narrative of Goldmund’s field report, it’s about the themes that narrative generates.
Furthermore, I find it hard to capisce any commenter that hasn’t explained his frame (told his own personal narrative in oh so many words), prior to trying to make a statement as to why he espouses what he tries to espouse. All we know about you is your Cosa Nostra (our thing) frame.
The “Tough Guy Alpha Male” label is often a way to attempt to label, inappropriately, and disparage what should more appropriately labeled un-repentant masculinity with enlightened self-interest. I’m not the former, but subscribe to the latter. Cause it works.
The “Tough Guy Alpha Male” term is also often a Straw Man proposal. A man can not be one, but still endorse un-repentant masculinity with enlightened self-interest.
Kid Jupiter
I only ask that you accurately portray what I’m asserting,
Someone’s got to, since you’re clearly not up to the job.
Kid Jupiter
I still hold that Goldmund’s inability or unwillingness to set a personal boundary of appropriate behavior in that social setting is demonstrative of a psychopathic trait.
Yes, we know you have an opinion about what ought or should be reality.
Reality isn’t cooperating with your opinon.
What now? Seriously, you’ve said the same thing, “It shoulda been” a bunch of times and yet the facts have not changed, nor have you convinced anyone to agree with you.
It’s almost like a woman with a fake beard on.
Rollo
I’ve addressed the same predictable issues of ethics you relate in all your comments in many other prior posts
Huh. Kid Jupiter says he’s read the entire site and both books. Yet he keeps tripping over basic things, like my sisters keeper. Go figure.
Read. Think. Post. In that order. My suggestion to everyone. Sometimes I manage to do that myself.
Good to know, Rollo.
Anonymous, I’ve been clear as a bell. It’s you with the reading comprehension problem. Work on it.
SJF, I’m having a discussion. Sounds like lecturing to you because you attack me nonstop, and I parry back, rather than feigning acceptance of points I think are wrong. So, call me whatever you want, join kfg in insulting my ethnicity with your “cosa nostra” comment, and keep making an idiot of yourself.
I’ve made my points. You’re free to agree or disagree, as I am with yours.
AR wins again
Also isn’t Cosa Nostra them dudes who have to pay 81 and the AB to keep their members safe when they go inside?
What insult? I rather admire “Our Thing” as a tribal tactical virtue. My comment was referring to the lack of understanding of your Frame. You are Frame Battling, without having defined your frame, and the result is that your assertions are hard to resonate with.
Puppies are almost always offended where no offense was offered SJF….. and often enough not offended when they should be
Here is something I did not ever expect to see. A free solo climb of El Capitan in Yosemite.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/features/athletes/alex-honnold/most-dangerous-free-solo-climb-yosemite-national-park-el-capitan/
SOMEWHAT RANDOM THOUGHTS RELATED TO BETA-TUDE I am idling and preparing for the next week. BOSS, PERFORMANCE REVIEW, POSSIBLE LIGHT E-O-T I am still dealing with the BOSS situation, the crappy performance review, demands that I take on more oversight functions and related project management functions without additional resources, and the demands to train a clerical worker to perform all my duties which go far beyond clerical work—that’s supposed to be my resource. But to explain any of this in detail would be to give BOSS valuable information. Also, BOSS wants to sit-with to walk through complicated processes. But, this… Read more »
Not for nothing, but I do understand KJ’s want for a better social contract based on mutual self-control between men and men, and men and women. In bygone eras it may be that nobility and chivalry (or some approximation of it) served as a social control, but underneath all that, it was still Hypergamy and the base functions and latent purposes that motivated men and women.
Bros before hoes is a nice conviction, but it’s just a veneer over the evolutionary truth – men want breeding rights and sexual access first, social conveniences second.
Goldmund just wrote a new post which includes more details on the Aussie situation: http://goldmundunleashed.com/downsides-player-life/ “When I fucked the Australian girl in the bathroom in the “Redpill Player” story, we were both pretty drunk, or else I don’t think she would have followed me in there, and I consider that one an exception to the rule. Plus my friend who invited me out got pissed because Mr. Australia was bitching about the situation–I don’t know if I’ll get invited to another dinner party with girls in attendance.” So the girl was drunk, meaning if he had got her number, and… Read more »
Who qualifies as Bro?
Lol at Cosa Nostra. Growing up, my Dad’s business was located in Bloomfield New Jersey ( part of the reason The Sopranos was my favorite program, as many of the characters looked familiar ). Most of my early life, Bloomfield had a very significant Italian American populace. The funny thing was, in the mornings the local cops would always come by and my father, his brothers and I would all have coffee and shoot the shit. Also having coffee, were a few gentlemen who wore suits and ties and drove Cadillacs and Lincolns, and who all had large amounts of… Read more »
I always me j, no matter the situation and no less masculine when cooking, playing with my kids, napping with my Lady Pit curled on top of me or down in the dumps over lost brothers as I am when on a bike or hunting hajjis for fun and profit.
Those who don’t get that need yet more work on their frame
Rollo Not for nothing, but I do understand KJ’s want for a better social contract based on mutual self-control between men and men, and men and women. Likewise. Pieces of that older contract, including something like marriage 1.0, still can be argued to exist in culturally conservative churches. I’ve been in some of those groups around the US. With The Glasses on a man can see women mate guarding themselves, women mate guarding each other, and so forth. It’s getting to be a bit counter cultural, what with minimal divorces and so forth. But it exists. To participate a man… Read more »
In fact, the last episode of the Sopranos was shot in Holstens in Bloomfield. Fitting in so many ways.
Plus they have killer onion rings.
Nice one Blax. I lived in a place that use to have the Korean version of that. When this family’s store got robbed a couple of busted up kids came back, apologized and paid them back 3 fold
Probably got a better roi on the protection money they paid then taxes for law dogs
SFC Ton
I always me…
Those who don’t get that need yet more work on their frame
Words of the day.
La verità regola, always.
In a gadda da vida?
“In bygone eras . . .”
. . . Aussie’s association with the girl would have got him pounded to a pulp and the girl branded a whore long before Goldmund showed up.
One of the Jovian games being played is Chinese Menu social contracting, taking one from column A and two from column B out of their social context and trying to mash them together as suits him.
@ Ton
Lol, I mighta got that wrong. My spanish is better than my Italian as I get 10x the practice at Spanish.
It’s either ” regola ” or ” regole “.
Maybe ” Regole della verità “???
Aw shucks, never mind.
Lmao.
Truth Rules.
@ Ton
We avoided the protection pay thing. I’m not absolutely clear as to why, but I think it was because the guys liked to just hang out around the shop, and we took car of their autos, even without discounts or anything like that.
I could always make an extra 60 bucks by polishing one of their cars, and in the 70’s, 60 bucks went a looonnngggg way. So naturally, when one of them bellowed ” hey kid!!! Can you polish my car right now? “, I dropped everything and got busy. Lol.
@KJ
ASD,
Cool story, bro.
Tell me another, ladykiller.
You’re trying to AMOG, but you’re falling on your ass. Everyone can see it butt you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/6f1bac/at_age_111_americas_oldest_veteran_is_still/?ref=share&ref_source=link
@ Anonymous Reader “Likewise. Pieces of that older contract, including something like marriage 1.0, still can be argued to exist in culturally conservative churches. I’ve been in some of those groups around the US. With The Glasses on a man can see women mate guarding themselves, women mate guarding each other, and so forth. It’s getting to be a bit counter cultural, what with minimal divorces and so forth. But it exists. To participate a man must be willing to actively participate in the religon.” It may or may not be a non sequitur for me to announce that I… Read more »
Rollo
Completely unrelated but Ton mentioned his motorcycle.
Finally recently finished my MSF last month, bought a cbr300r (just a tiny thing). Had a sweet ride this afternoon. Man that thing can lean, but I don’t dare take it to the limit yet.
I foresee less women this summer but more riding. Which is a good thing – I’ve been too caught up getting pussy at a price.
@SJF, > Crazy shit like infidelity and stealing girls just doesn’t happen much. . . . that you’re aware of, LOL Have been learning from a PUA colleague about the Secret Society. Been introducing me to a world that virtually all men have no idea of its existence. Believe me, women everywhere, including upper-middle class women married to self made men who you’re convinced “are not interested in cheating because they’re married to guys who have their male shit together” . . . get into this world with surprising regularity. And FTR, infidelity and girl stealing isn’t even crazy in… Read more »
Blax, I’m sure it is:
regole di verità
In older Italian probably:
praecepta vero
Those are great bikes! And most sports bikes are way more bike the riders can handle….like me on that duc….. which is why sport bike guys end up as organ donors ……….. Hate to speculate about things like that Blax. Not that I know much about IBM, only real contact my family ever had with them was generations ago, during Prohibition and it didn’t go well for the city folk. I have seen crews stack up favor chips just in case but them sort of fellas are normally working some kind of angle, but I will say this; no doubt… Read more »
Yeah I lived in an old school super zip code full of old money; that sort of “crazy shit” was going down on the regular. Lost track of the number of dudes who had kept women…. almost all of them in the same college/ port town. Like Willimington is the sugar baby capital of NC or some shit
Wilmington the sugar baby capitol of NC? Hmm. Bet Raleigh-Durham is right up there nearly tied. But not Asheville! No way! Heh.
“. . . that you’re aware of, LOL” Turns out it doesn’t matter…. But I acknowledge what you are saying. Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth. Neo: What truth? Spoon boy: There is no spoon. Neo: There is no spoon? Spoon boy: Then you’ll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. I proceed in that manner. In keeping with the theme of the original post, “Be an exciting rock, these damn girls want it all….haha” My part of the bargain has come… Read more »
@rugby11
June 3, 2017 at 2:16 pm
That was a great listen. Thanks.
ROLLO will you come on with part 2 I want to see if it got a Disney land finish. Maybe Aussie goes back down under and fucks bathroom girls little sister or something. Then they get married and sail down the river of hope in a canoe singing cum by ya. Hell it could happen. Maybe he finds the red pill. They make musical about his life story. Any way I’m patiently waiting for part 2
Raleigh Durham has way more then it’s fair share of college hotties and I use to cunt hunt there on the regular but the guys I know who have legit kept women keep them in Wilmington.
Which makes me think it’s an issue of social class and it possibly being easier to explain a trip to Wilmington then Raleigh, Durham or Ashville. That’s idle speculation on my behalf but every dude I know with an official side piece warehouses the bitch in Wilmington
My idea of having kept women is keeping then in my house.
ASD, I don’t have to AMOG in relation to you. I’m already higher status than you, no need to kick a dead horse. I’m just having fun now, at your expense. Rollo, Seems like from Goldmund’s follow up that he’s actually catching some consequences now for what he did. Was it worth it? A drunken poke in the toilet with a chick he’ll never see again, and now these people don’t want him around any more social settings? I guess it depends on how much this particular group of people means to him, how important they are in his life.… Read more »
” Which makes me think it’s an issue of social class and it possibly being easier to explain a trip to Wilmington then Raleigh, Durham or Ashville. That’s idle speculation on my behalf but every dude I know with an official side piece warehouses the bitch in Wilmington…”
Ton, I tell ya, we’ve probably passed each other at some point in life. Lol. I used to haunt Raleigh Durham too. Quite frequently. But this was eons ago, before all of those tech companies moved in the area and the influx of northern folk happened.