The Utility of Beta Men – Part I

This week my fellow 21 Convention speaker and good friend Goldmund posted a very poignant essay about his experience stealing a girl away from her Blue Pill orbiter for a same night lay. I’ll paraphrase a bit of it here as I riff on it, but do click over to his blog and read the entire exchange.

Before I do though, let me first begin by stating that I have been the Blue Pill orbiter Goldmund describes here. I think too many readers seem to think I write from some position of Alpha authority; as if I’ve always been the lesser Alpha I am today. I’m sorry if this disillusions anyone, but I’ve run the gamut from being a well-conditioned Blue Pill Beta, to being a verified-by-social proof rock star Alpha, to dropping almost into an Omega status with a BPD girlfriend, to maturing into a Red Pill aware, lesser Alpha I would humbly think of myself as today.

A lot of critics, and even a handful of Red Pill men I know, have a real tough time with what they believe are arbitrary terms – Alpha, Beta, Omega, Blue/Red Pill, etc. – but let me reiterate here that these terms have always been abstracts. They are placeholder words for larger ideas, not binary definitions. A lot of critics also, erroneously, believe that Blue Pill, Beta, Omega, White Knight, etc. are some dismissive insult to end a conversation with, rather than, again, the abstract terms used to describe a man’s condition. I’ve made it clear in prior posts that being Beta or Blue Pill isn’t a life sentence, and neither should it merit our scorn beyond the ignorance that man happens to be a subject of.

I’m prefacing this here because sometimes it’s hard to look at ourselves, or our past selves, from the perspective of a guy who is enduring the same Blue Pill conditioned delusions we had. The Blue Pill orbiter’s role in Goldmund’s story here is a guy I’m sure most Red Pill men can somewhat empathize (if not sympathize) with because they were this guy also. They made the same decisions based on the same foolish Blue Pill preconceptions about women, and due to the same ignorance and lack of any Red Pill awareness we once had. So in this respect, try to understand the following from an objective perspective of what it was like to be that ‘hopeless Blue Pill orbiter’ basing decisions on old books social understanding.

To outline the story briefly, Goldmund was invited to socialize with a friend and what he’d thought was a couple; a nice looking 23 year old woman and her dutiful Beta ‘pseudo-husband’ (edited for content):

It was Sunday evening, the weather was pleasant, and being around a group of great guys who were eager to learn had me in extra fine spirits. A text came in from a friend who said he was hosting some people from out of town and wanted me to join them all for dinner. I met them at a restaurant and sat down to eat.

At first I thought the two attractive people he was hosting were a couple. They were both from Australia and sitting next to each other at the table. I noticed that the guy was catering to the girl, not standing his ground in conversation, and ended up paying for her.

After dinner we all went to a bar where a band was playing, the girl came over to me and we started to chat. I immediately asked her “so, is that your husband?” and she responded with “oh, no, he’s just a friend” and gave a hungry ‘save me’ look.

[…] The Australian guy stood next to the girl while I walked closer to the front, and after the first song, I looked back and waved her over. She came right away and the guy glared at me like I was Satan.

She stood right in front of me and began dancing a little. While I rubbed my crotch on her wiggling ass, my hands went to her hips, then felt up her flat stomach before caressing her big boobs.

I said into her ear, “I’m going to take you on a date right now” and she looked back and smiled.

At this point you can probably see where this is going. One thing I think is very important to point out here is that Beta male orbiters of most stripes can simultaneously end up being their own worst enemies while reinforcing the Alpha impression of his sexual competitors. In most cases, that orbiter’s status is set in woman’s hindbrain and as such any other man’s status whom she happens to encounter is measured against his. Game savvy men should (usually do) know that Beta orbiters are an opportunity to establish an implied social proof. Orbiters actually strengthen your Game and SMV because of his baseline status and subconscious comparing of Hypergamous options.

Women want men who other men want to be and other women want to fuck. Whether it’s actually true or not, to a woman’s mind, her impression of your orbiter’s status means you are a man who wants to be like the competing Alpha – the guy who she and other women want to fuck.

In most instances there’s no real reason to AMOG an orbiter. We’ll get to this in a bit, but understand now that most orbiters are unwitting volunteers in aiding a Red Pill, Game aware, man boost his signal, so to speak, by complaining, doubting and criticizing the efficacy (or ethics) of it. In doing so, his less (or non) competitive status is also reinforced with every positive response a woman returns for that Red Pill awareness.

Remember, stay objective here, focus on what’s transpiring and why it’s working. Whether you’re the Blue Pill orbiter or the Red Pill seducer in a scenario like this, the real education comes from observing the process.

Goldmund continues:

We went to the back of the venue, and my friend came up to me and said “hey man, listen, that guy is really upset that you are hitting on the girl”.

“Well she surely isn’t going to fuck him, they aren’t together”

“Yeah, but he paid for her to come out to New York [from Australia], and last night, he told her that he loved her”

I couldn’t help but burst out laughing.

While this conversation was going on, the guy went up to the girl and begged her not to leave with me. At this point, I despised him, especially after my friend informed me that he had referred to me as ‘a creepy predator’, and wanted to teach him a lesson that stung. Especially since he was taller, better looking, and much more arrogant than me.

Right about here you’ll probably have a real tough time with the ethics of this scenario, but lets run down a few of the facts we know at this stage. First, ‘Pseudo-Husband’ is now the kind of Beta who pays for non-interested, or semi-interested women to go on international trips with him. This in itself is material for an entire post, but any Red Pill aware guy knows the mindset of the Beta sexual resource exchange – also known as the Savior Schema.

Just as an aside, I think this schema becomes all the more interesting when you account for the Sugar Babies companionship/sex dynamic going on today. It might be easy to think a Sugar Daddy paying for a woman’s exclusive attention would simply vote that girl off the island by closing his wallet, but when you mix pride, alcohol, Beta Game and expectation-but-not-expectation of sex with a Sugar Baby, well, that can make for a very volatile outcome. There’s a certain expectation of ROI when you pay for a woman’s international vacation.

Obviously Goldmund’s approach shifts at this stage, but, being the seasoned seduction artist he is, he has more than enough intel on the guy and IOIs from the girl to get the lay. At this point I expect Goldmund made it personal, but we’ll discuss this towards the end.

‘Pseudo-Husband’s’ impression of Goldmund as “creepy predator” is another tell as to his Blue Pill conditioned mindset. “Creepy predator” is fem-speak. It’s what I expect to hear come from a woman’s mouth, but when it comes from a man it’s a giveaway as to his conditioning; in this case feminine-primary.

As I’d rather not copy and paste all of Goldmund’s story here, I’ll ask that you read the sexual details on his site. Suffice it to say Goldmund expertly Games this woman and has quick-hit sex with her at the venue they were at. However, to continue with the analysis of this girl’s orbiter, let’s skip ahead to some select quotes:

Her face was red and we had been gone for about 20 minutes, so when we returned to the table, I’m 100% sure that everyone knew what just went down. The guy didn’t say a word while the rest of us chatted about sex over drinks, and when I got up to go home, he didn’t say goodbye. As I was leaving I told my friend to mention The Rational Male to him.

Major lessons found in this one, and they are so clear because a few years ago, I could picture myself being in the loser’s situation (I wouldn’t go so far as to pay for a chick to fly across the world, but I’ve done some extremely pathetic things in attempts to woo girls).

Game taught me that girls are incredibly sexual creatures, love being dirty, think about sex often, need it, and want to get fucked by men who are wild.

I’m sure the Australian guy never thought the girl was capable of having sex in a bar bathroom by a stranger, yet it happened right under his nose. Its hard to think of a bigger example of getting friend-zoned than this guy who had spent 1000s of dollars on the girl to confess his ‘love’ for her, only to be cucked by some Playboy she just met.

I think this is one of the hardest lessons a Blue Pill man has to learn before he understands the importance of being Red Pill aware. Most ‘Nice Guy’ orbiters/friends never really need to be AMOG’d by a sexual rival because they’re ignorant of the nature of Hypergamy. Even the ones who’ve experienced it personally from a woman, or having it flaunted in their face via commercial Open Hypergamy, these men still want their dream girl to somehow be different. Many a White Knight has been knocked from his horse after having the truth of women’s sexual natures viscerally illustrated for him. It’s the guys who go into denial, who fall back on the “Quality Woman” rationale and get back on the white horse who are truly lost.

I’ve been friend-zoned before and remember it being some of the most frustrating, mentally clouding times of my life. This guy was seething with anger so bad, he couldn’t even speak–or attempt to fight. The friend-zone is anguishing. Overcoming it happened when I started reading stories like the one above, started assuming every girl has slutty tendencies and will use weak guys for money, attention, gifts, or whatever it is that they are lacking.

Having your Blue Pill ego-investments dispelled in such a brutal fashion often leads to two types of misdirected anger: anger at the sexual rival who just schooled you in the most personal way about women’s Hypergamous sexual natures, and anger with a woman (or women) who are simply incapable of appreciating, or abiding, by the old social contracts, the old books he believes they ought to be.

This anger is not so much about a loss of investment as it is about a Blue Pill man having his inner world destroyed by outer world facts.

There was a point in my own life when I was something very similar to the Australian guy. I’m glad Goldmund mentioned my site and books to this guy’s friend because I’m still hopeful for men like this. I’ve had a few men in my Red Pill sphere tell me I ought not to care about men who don’t want, or don’t know how, to intrasexually compete; either due to their arrogance or ignorance. But that’s not what my goal is. While I understand that sometimes it’s necessary to Ghost on men at times, that’s never going to be my first impulse.

If the dude was cool about the situation and humble enough to talk to me like an adult about it, I would have gladly given him some advice and probably just got the girls number at some point and arranged to meet her privately.

Ego is the reason most people stay bluepill, you have to be honest with yourself and admit when something is wrong. And then find ways to fix it.

Hypergamy and Evolution want Hoes Before Bros

I understand Goldmund’s sentiment here. About 9 months, maybe a year ago I ran a Twitter poll asking whether it should be considered a Red Pill aware man’s duty to educate Beta men about their Blue Pill beliefs and why it’s the source of a lot of their troubles. For the most part, the consensus was that men should help other guys. That’s encouraging, but it’s also not always advisable. I find it fascinating that despite all of the attraction and arousal Red Pill aware men can knowingly generate in women with Dark Triad personality traits, they still believe they can compartmentalize those traits when it comes to helping their fellow man.

Should Goldmund have backed off this girl out of respect for a man who was obviously trapped in a Blue Pill negative feedback loop with her? Or did he do both him and her a favor?

I’ve personally had one of my best friends bang a girl I was locked in the friendzone with. This was a girl I’d tried for months to get her to sexually respond to my pathetically Blue Pill “I really care” Beta Game. I vividly remember (I was 19) the night I introduced him to her and so began a literal fuck-fest between the two of them that lasted about 2 months after only meeting for an hour that night. It was a hard kick in the teeth to take, one my friend and the girl showed absolutely no remorse or regret for, but it taught me a very valuable lesson. All the bullshit about “bros before hoes” all the idealistic pretty Blue Pill lies I believed about being friends and comfort first before sex went right out the window that week – where they belonged.

Personally it was hard to take, but objectively it was exactly what I needed to experience. I think this is a hard line for even a lot of Red Pill men to really cross today. Granted, I expect Goldmund was really into banging this girl that night more than he wanted to teach this guy some object lesson, but I think it’s going to be a really difficult area for Red Pill guys to sort out for themselves when it comes to “helping” Blue Pill guys unplug.

I’m reminded of the story about the guy who taped the note about banging another guy’s girlfriend under the toilet seat.

What is a Red Pill aware man’s ethical responsibility to Blue Pill men?


This is a two-part series of posts. In the next post I’ll consider how Red Pill men might deal with Blue Pill men in non-sexually competitive situations, and the advantages and dangers you might encounter.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Yes Agent P nails it and the Aussies dilemma as well… Aussie has three choices – take his anger out on Goldmund, take his anger out on the girl or take his anger out on himself. Only one will advance his interests in the future.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Rudy

This girl got on a plane and traveled around the world just to friendzone this guy

Girls do this to beta schlubs alla time. Nothing to see here.

I see no reason to think that Goldmund is a psychopath or uncivilized.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Asd

I think Kid’s basis for taking a stand is either for the Aussies self respect or to strike back at the meany FI…

Well his self respect was toast before Goldmund and the other is Quixotic if you can’t enforce anything, which he has amply demonstrated he can’t with one girl let alone all of them.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

@Kid Jupiter: “Am I being unclear in my position and points?”

You are missing the entire point of the article.

“What would you suggest he do?”

Own the fact that the person who dissed him, had been treating him with a complete lack of respect, for years, was himself.

Continuing to bluff a bad hand, because “pride,” when you know that everyone else knows you’re holding a pile of crap is not a good long term strategy.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Agent

Just because they allege they have pledged their loyalty to some man either short term or long,changes NOTHING.

Here I disagree. There are cultural rules that apply when someone breaks their pledge, even if there aren’t legal rules. If you get caught, your social proof takes a hit. Marriage still means something, tho not for much besides inheritance, legally speaking.

If Mrs. Gamer got caught cheating, she would lose some long-time friends. Her friends are old school.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Sentient @kfg

“I think Kid’s basis for taking a stand is either for the Aussies self respect ”

“Continuing to bluff a bad hand, because “pride,” when you know that everyone else knows you’re holding a pile of crap is not a good long term strategy.”

Kid is basing his argument on doubling down on stupid

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

Goldmund and Oneitis Girl’s psychopathy is “okay” because society has outlawed or outright flushed all the constraints on this behavior down the drain.

Psychopathy? Let’s review the rules: women select; men are selected.

Nope, can’t find any broken rules in Goldmund’s narrative.

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

@Roused

You say Kfg doesn’t need defending, yet here you are defending him.

I’m not surprised, he needs protecting. He’s a hamper short of a picnic.

@Kid Jupiter

You’re right. About all of it.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

The Peanut Gallery chimes in.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Funny to see all these pups buffering.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

Is it a coincidence that buffering rhymes with suffering?

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“This girl got on a plane and traveled around the world just to friendzone this guy?”

Scorpions gonna scorpion.

That doesn’t absolve the scorpion of responsibility for its actions, but when you start going around saying you should be able handle scorpions without taking the necessary precautions, that is thinking like a chick.

cheupez
4 years ago

@Roused
No ammunition to counter with on your response. But I will respond on a totally different matter. If you allow a girl to cuck with you on a weaker male than you and rub his nose it in, you are probably overdoing it.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@stuff

Is it a coincidence that buffering rhymes with suffering?

Totally. Buffering is a BP response to suffering. Suffering should cause self improvement, not doubling down on stupid.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“If you allow a girl to cuck with you on a weaker male than you and rub his nose it in, you are probably overdoing it.”

And I think Goldmund is aware that he gave the knife an extra, unnecessary, twist, just because he was triggered by the Aussie’s pathetically repulsive behavior.

” . . . the guy went up to the girl and begged her not to leave with me. At this point, I despised him . . .”

And, perhaps more to the point of the matter, so did she.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@SJB

Let’s review the rules: women select; men are selected.

let’s question the rules…from my experience, plenty of women have selected me, but I didn’t select them…do you seriously think that I am an outlier?

women select among betas…alphas take their pick of women

put another way…betas compete for women…women compete for alphas

theasdgamer
4 years ago

“If you allow a girl to cuck with you on a weaker male than you and rub his nose it in, you are probably overdoing it.”

Where was there any cucking anywhere in this? Where did AussieBozo ever dip his wick?

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@SJB

So, reconsidering your rule…your rule applies only to betas and only betas see that rule as valid.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@kfg ” . . . the guy went up to the girl and begged her not to leave with me. At this point, I despised him . . .” And, perhaps more to the point of the matter, so did she. Well, let’s consider his feelings…he was in luuuurve…he was on an oxytocin high…he was hooked on an opiate…he was a junkie…he would do ANYTHING for a fix…lots of us have been there…some of us got better…some of us are still seeking that oxytocin high…I’ve issued warnings about that feelings shit…I’ve been roundly ignored…I laugh at the stupidity of those… Read more »

Rudolph
Rudolph
4 years ago

kfg June 2, 2017 at 6:35 am “This girl got on a plane and traveled around the world just to friendzone this guy?” Scorpions gonna scorpion. That doesn’t absolve the scorpion of responsibility for its actions, but when you start going around saying you should be able handle scorpions without taking the necessary precautions, that is thinking like a chick. Beta Australian because of his blue pill conditioning didn’t know he was trying to handle a scorpion. This guy is getting pounded on for his cluelessness despite that he was acting within what he’d been taught. And taking advantage of… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

: An outlier on what curve? A man can be selected yet choose to not respond to the selection. C.f. Annette (?) and Tony in Saturday Night Fever for an accurate (albeit fictional) depiction.

I’d suggest all males compete for women. It really is every man for himself – gotta get those genes recombined and thence replicating.

I’m not sure how the rules (women select [eggs are expensive]; men are selected [sperm is cheap]) are delineated along an alpha-beta spectrum. Care to expand your thought?

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@Rudolph: sure, I understand: not being selected hurts. Being selected in your mental model and having that model crashed by situational observation sucks even more.

However, that hurt – the instance of which may be mitigated by social convention – does not obviate selects/selected. Sure it’s primitive but it’s hardwired.

barabarism
barabarism
4 years ago

Why didn’t the Aussie just kill Goldmund and her?

Isn’t that the next step in this process? If we’re supposed to have this “kill or be killed” mentality, why not make it a reality and start killing each other then? No more “Game,” no more dark triad, no more Machiavellianism, no more manipulations…

Strong survive and collect resources (e.g. women), weak are killed.

That is the next step, right?

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“This guy is getting pounded on for his cluelessness despite that he was acting within what he’d been taught.” How do you think most men who come here get here? What do you think “here,” and this very article, are about? It isn’t actually the Aussie who is getting pounded Pain is a clue. And it isn’t actually the Aussie who is getting pounded on. He’s just an illustration of the principles. It’s the Incubus and the Kid. They can learn by suffering a little pain here, or a lot more “out there.” “The whole point of civilization is .… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

I don’t subscribe to the ” eggs are expensive, sperm cheap ” nonsense. Eggs fall out and get flushed approximately every 24-28 days or so, unless sperm intervenes. @ Rudolph Who says civilization is supposed to protect the weak? Sounds like a false fantasy. A Man’s job once he exits the vaginal cavity, is consistent development of mind and body. This is why 10 year olds no longer wear diapers and drink from nipples. We no longer live under the laws of the jungle per se, but those laws never really go away either.softening and cosigning weakness among men only… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

Strong survive and collect resources (e.g. women), weak are killed.

That is the next step, right?

It’s not the next step; it’s was was and what is and what likely will be.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man There are only four things certain since Social Progress began. That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire, And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire; And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins, As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter… Read more »

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ barabarism,

Society/civilization kills people daily, its just that now its done mostly without violence or bloodshed.

This is why it’s prudent to take much care in what one believes or chooses to invest his ego in

There is more than one way to die.

Blaximus
4 years ago

…. Lol. I could knock up a thousand ovulating women. A woman can fuck a thousand guys in the same timeframe, but only one can impregnate her ( usually ).

To quote the late Michael Jackson : ” who’s bad???? “.

Anon01
Anon01
4 years ago

@Ragnar

YaReally had made a comment on this back in the days: http://yareallyarchive.com/search/?q=provider+vs+lover

I don’t read all of the comments here, so forgive me if I missed you posting this, but do you “game”? I was at your shoes when I first posted a comment here a few months back. Doing cold approaches can really help with what you describe.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

Somewhere deep in her hindbrain,ausie freeride girl was hoping ausie would grow a pair,burst onto the comode beat goldy into a whimpering mass put him in a stall make him stay and have his way with her.

This would be optimal hypergamy AF/BB rolled together in one convenient package. This does exist there are couples out there playing this game today.

Seems sick and twisted but it works for them.

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ Kid When a guy waves over a chick you’re with, and she actually complies, in the broader sense you’ve already begun losing. Many guys approached my first wife right in front of me. It never flustered or upset me. In most cases I’d remark to them ” hell yeah, she fine as hell, right??”. Some guys would back off or apologize, but there were some that would test and persist. Most times I’d let them take a run at her, then I’d interrupt them saying ” watch this..”, and I’d walk away, and my wife immediately followed. If at… Read more »

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

@Ragnar June 1, 2017 at 2:49 pm As I am keen to delve into the strengths and weakness of the INTJ personality, I could comment on your situation and will try to do so. But I think the discussion should be taken over to Field Reports because it is somewhat limited in scope for general discussion. The INTJ personality is not well adapted to short term Game, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t pursue that, or be good at that, with an understanding of Rollo’s Preventative Medicine concepts in mind (the vast majority of women out there are going to… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@SJB I’m not sure how the rules (women select [eggs are expensive]; men are selected [sperm is cheap]) are delineated along an alpha-beta spectrum. Care to expand your thought? Surely. Eggs expensive/sperm cheap only looks at the supply side of reproductive econ. Alphas can typically only impregnate one woman every 36 hours because of sperm replacement limitations. Alphas are in more demand than betas. If you have ten women ovulating and one alpha around, then those women will all be competing for the alpha and he will select his mate for the 36 hours. Of course, most sex isn’t determined… Read more »

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Anything else he could’ve done at that moment would only make things worse… For him.”

Her: Honey, I’ve met another man and I’m divorcing you.
Him: Oh yeah, well, there are consequences for that. I’m leaving.
Her: Yes, that’s the idea. Kthanxbye.

Chump No More
Chump No More
4 years ago

@Blax “I don’t subscribe to the ” eggs are expensive, sperm cheap ” nonsense. Eggs fall out and get flushed approximately every 24-28 days or so, unless sperm intervenes.” Nature disagrees with you. “Eggs are expensive” because it takes significant resources and 9 months to fully gestate that egg, and then a near life time of commitment and provisioning to ensure that egg is able to perform as nature expects. Current family and reproductive law also disagrees with you. While historically nature has shown that men are expendable, family law dictates that men (and their sperm) are disposable… i.e., cheap.… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Kid Aussie’s territory/turf was the social group they were in, not the pussy. From my reading – and I even went to Goldmund’s blog and read the full account – Goldmund was invited by a friend of Aussie’s. When Goldmund horned in on the chick, the guy who invited him confronted him about it (albeit quite limp-wristedly). Thus, this was Aussie’s “turf” to defend, his status on the line, not Goldmund’s. Goldmund was invited to the group and therefore had a right to its resources, including pussy. Goldmund’s friend assumed that Aussie had a right to a particular pussy, but… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Chump

Nature disagrees with you. “Eggs are expensive” because it takes significant resources and 9 months to fully gestate that egg

…hence Hypergamy…hence why alphas are in more demand than are women

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

It goes without saying and you have to take in to account just how much of a charming man Goldmund actually is when he is unleashed. As he mentions in his comments below his original article, he is a strong man who is willing to take what he wants. His pro tip: “Be an exciting rock, these damn girls want it all….haha” Why did he do what he did? Because he can. Why did the girl in the story do what she did? Because she wanted to and she could. Any man would do well to move towards more Alpha… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Chump

Current family and reproductive law also disagrees with you. While historically nature has shown that men are expendable, family law dictates that men (and their sperm) are disposable… i.e., cheap.

yeah, cuz the FI puts its agenda into Law so that Law will accord with wired-in Nature–not actual Nature, the made up stuff the FI calls “Nature”

Chump No More
Chump No More
4 years ago

@Rollo,

I would argue that, at a base level, relational equity is as wired in to our basic survival instincts as the need for connection, the fear of rejection, and reproductive strategies. Getting kicked out of the village/tribe meant death. Your fellow tribesman not pulling their weight meant death.

Relational equity is a survival mechanism, but like everything else the FI does, it’s twisted and used against men’s best interests.

Chump No More
Chump No More
4 years ago

, agreed.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

ASD, you’re lost, brother. The turf/territory was Aussie’s. Goldmund was the interloper. It mat sound “BP” to your refined Apex Alpha ears, but there’s an old saying: “He who pays the piper, calls the tune.” Hypergamy is a real thing, as we know. In the past, it was kept under control by society and community enough to ensure stability. We will nake efforts to get it back under control; unless, of course, we really want to live in a jungle again, like our prehistoric ancestors. That’s where we’re heading if this shit keeps up. This guy invited her and paid… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Kid

It mat sound “BP” to your refined Apex Alpha ears, but there’s an old saying:
“He who pays the piper, calls the tune.”

Yet another BP saying.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

SJF, Goldmund can do what he did because he’s a psychopath and isn’t able to set personal boundaries. Thus, he needs boundaries set for him.

A few teeth knocked out might suffice to get him setting his own boundaries in future social settings.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Rollo, I’ve read much of Goldmund’s blog. It’s not my cup of tea, but I’ve checked it out. I call him a psychopath because he displays psychopathic behavior. What he did in this story is psychopathic. He can explain it away, justify it, rationalize it, or otherwise hamster it, but, as you’ve always said: WATCH [HER] ACTIONS, DON’T LISTEN TO [HER] WORDS. I’ll extrapolate that to watch EVERYONE’S actions, rather than listen to their words; men ‘hamster’, to, albeit not to the extent that women do. I’ll have to review his account of getting his ass kicked by Russians because… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

Paying the piper for a tune implies a contract. BP Aussie had no contract with chick and no property rights over her.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Kid

You’re a psychopath for calling G a psychopath. You need to respect G’s boundaries.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

ASD, whatever you say, big guy.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Kid

The turf/territory was Aussie’s. Goldmund was the interloper.

Nope.

mersonia
4 years ago

@Kid Jupiter “I’m a regular reader of Rollo and I’m very familiar with his concepts, thank you. You’re obviously a troll. ” He should’ve taken a stand and at least salvaged a shred of his dignity” HE SHOULD HAVE CHALLENGED HIM TO A DUEL IN FRONT OF EVERYONE AND THE GIRL WHO DOESN’T VIEW HIM AS A SEXUAL OPTION. AUSSIEBOY ” GOLDMUND I PAID FOR HER TO FLY THOUSAND OF MILES AND YOU FUCK HER IN A BATHROOM YOU OFFEND MY HONOR GOLDMUND ………….. AUSSIBOY ” WE WILL HAVE A DUEL……… Everyone else ……………………… AUSSIEBOY LATER COMMITS SUICIDE IN BATHROOM… Read more »

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Kid

Wow, you’re just so cool!

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Keep going, ASD.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Oh, nice – edgy Baphomet avatar guy is back. So edgy!

Yes, I’m obviously a troll. You’re so insightful.

Rudolph
Rudolph
4 years ago

@Rollo re: Relational Equity and Relational Investment and so on. The other thing that this guy is faced with is that he’s failed to meet his burden of performance. He thinks the investments he’s made have been doing that. He is faced with the idea that he’s “simply not good enough.” This would be another source of Beta Australian’s frustration. That is the source of his being stuck and anything he might try to salvage the situation or even just his own dignity will make him look “butthurt.” It isn’t just a case of having made ill-informed decisions. On some… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
4 years ago

@ dr_warlock – “Anyone who owns a business knows that the greatest boss is the customer. Billions up billions of dollars, and millions of man hours are used to find out how to convince a person to relinquish their money by choice. They are in the customer’s frame. I dont care how good of a salesman you are, you’re still in the customer’s frame. The only escape from this is a monopoly, scamming, brainwashing, or theft.” I own a business. So, let me share my experience. The customer is NOT the greatest boss. The company owner is. Customers must be… Read more »

Keith
Keith
4 years ago

That’s one fine host I mean what a guy ! This guy put PUA pussy pit bull Goldman in the same pin with a AFC dachshund. And the pit bull won ! Wow I can’t believe it. With host like that you don’t need enemy’s. What’s Goldmans next trick is he gonna cruze the high school parking lots and show the 17 year old boys how to get ur done? I’d be going back to Australia with this host ear tied around my neck as trophy.

mersonia
4 years ago

@Rudolph

MGTOW is just a bunch of losers who gave up. So as Hitler said ” Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.” At some point you just gotta let the losers die out.

@Kid Jupiter

“Yes, I’m obviously a troll. You’re so insightful.”

Clearly.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Keith

It is impossible to smash pussy or take ear trophies with relational equity stuck in the hindbrain.

If they eat the cake it is gone.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Clearly, I am a troll. Because trolls like me have all the time and desire in the world to sit here and make relevant points.

I think you’re the troll, Goat Boy.

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@theasdgamer: it was up to me to be clearer: I did not follow betas compete for females while alphas are competed for by females. I’m of the mind that women compete more against other women and less for a specific man. While Goldmund’s story does not flesh out the full group(s) composition(s) it is clear his presence disrupted the dominance hierarchy in place during the Aussies’ visit. I believe is a case of contextual alpha. But then again, I believe all alpha is contextual simple because each context has a different dominance triangle. However, to return to the point, while… Read more »

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@Rollo: I would expand this to say that Beta men will, via their preconditioning, impose those rules upon themselves before they even meet a woman with whom to invest themselves in.

Hear, hear! That damn idealization + preconditioning.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Kid

What price was she to pay? What consequences?

$17.31?

You are going off the rails. And you have some facts wrong… They were on Goldie’s turf.

constrainedlocus
4 years ago

Great post. Thank you. Ugh….been there man. Replace dark bar with high school bonfire party. Sophomore year. Drove my high school’s version of Barbie Benton (yeah, I’m dating myself with that reference, but if you know blue eyed brunettes like I do, well you’ll get it. Google her.) and several of her friends to the party. Safely locked in her orbit for weeks. Blue pilled and blue balled. Juvee escapee shows up in massive 4×4 pickup, tall, business in front+ party in back (e.g. mullett), chewing tobacco. “Like omg, chewing tobacco is soo-oh gross! Yeah, I know..(blah, blah, blah)” She… Read more »

mersonia
4 years ago

@kid jupiter

“Clearly, I am a troll. Because trolls like me have all the time and desire in the world to sit here and make relevant points.”

http://i.imgur.com/sNRryTJ.gif

A troll and pussy………….. The Rational Male is actually here to prevent people from becoming/staying like you.

constrainedlocus
4 years ago

What stuck with me was his zero effort, zero investment, zero clue and yet 100% reward.
Did not compute.

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
4 years ago

The only way Aussieboy could have prevented what happened AND stayed the stupid fuck he was was if he had Telekinetic powers and lit Goldmund’s Fedora AND Beard on fire.

The chick woulda been like, “Oh no! Physical danger! Better get my tits to safety! DISENGAGE!”

Goldmund woulda been like, “holy shit I’m on fire! Quick! To the bathroom!”

Aussie woulda been like….”Ahhhhh works everytime, haha! Now to book that trip to the Swiss Alps before Piggy sees me on my phone.”

See? Ridiculous.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Kid

Keep going, ASD.

gay

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Sentient, nice try at sarcasm. Obviously, you don’t actually read what I write, and are too eager to get to typing a witty reply. I’ve already said what her price should’ve been. Aussie should’ve left her with Goldmund, hailed a cab, turned off his phone or blocked her #, gathered up all her stuff (if she was staying w/ him) and put it outside the door of his apartment. Let her fend for herself if she wants to be a Big Shot in the Big City. Maybe she could ask Goldmund to play White Knight and rescue her from her… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

ASD, go pull some more one-liner replies off Chateau Heartiste’s Crib Sheet. Go on, you’ve got time.

Maybe 8=====D next? I dunno, find another one you like.

Keith
Keith
4 years ago

@stuffinbox. I get it you know no such thing as relationship equity and the utility of blue pill men. I’m just saying this was set up. If Goldman didn’t smash this chick then the host was gonna hit it before the nite was over. Obviously being Goldman friend the guy (host) picked up on cues the bathroom whore was sending out so he called Goldman. Goldman tells the story as it happened by chance ( cool story bro) but in reality his wingman put this together. But I don’t think the Australian learned a damn thing he’s probly back home… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Kid

I’ll try once more to reason with you, you ain’t making it easy and are now in gamma meltdown territory.

So assuming arguendo Aussie left her… and she suffer Teh Consequences(TM) as you describe.

So what? WHY is it relevant to him?

Suggest you ponder this a bit before snarking back…

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

“Aussie should’ve left her with Goldmund, hailed a cab, turned off his phone or blocked her # . . .”

Oh no! Anything but throwing me in the briar patch.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

NBTM

Successful bosses are dominate in a skillful way and exercise control with finesse rather than in domineering ways.

The most succesfull however will not flinch when they need to dominate – in any way required.

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Sentient, the only ones having gamma meltdowns are you and, especially, ASD. Kfg has actually eased back on the gamma throttle.

Keep arguing, though.

theasdgamer
4 years ago

@Sentient

I warned Kid that he was losing my interest and now he’s trying to get my attention, lol.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

In regards to the call for tribal rules, honor among men and in-group altruism, there has to be a tribe in place. There was not. A tribe of 250,000 people is not a tribe. A tribe of humans is 75-100 persons max. That’s where tribal rules are likely to get enforced. In today’s society there is no uncles, parents, and grandparents around to shame social mis-behaviors. And feminism pretty much assured that there are no shaming of women’s behavior, nor minimal space Patriarchal rules in a large society. You have to rely on a small unit of society to do… Read more »

Roused
4 years ago

“This guy invited her and paid her way. He gets to call the tune. She doesn’t get to act feral. Unless he allows it, of course- which he did.” That they speaks volumes about this discourse. It goes directly against so many things discussed about the red pill. Sure, he can LEAD the date and call the tune. If he has agency and knows enough about Game he MIGHT get to fuck her. Maybe, maybe not. She gets to act feral not because of a moral attitude or covert contract being broken. She acts feral because she is a cat.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Kid

Sentient, the only ones having gamma meltdowns are you and, especially, ASD. Kfg has actually eased back on the gamma throttle.

Keep arguing, though.

So you have no response? Here it is again for you…

“So assuming arguendo Aussie left her… and she suffer Teh Consequences(TM) as you describe.

So what? WHY is it relevant to him?

Suggest you ponder this a bit before snarking back…”

Ponder if you are able… Then reply…

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Roused, when I pay the piper, I call the tune. That’s how it works in my world, brah. And it’s working out just fine. SJF, good post, good points. What a relief…. I get what you’re saying. I believe that if our society is going to continue in a somewhat civilized way, it’s going to take guys standing up for civilized behavior and enforcing some standards of conduct, both on female hypergamy and the Goldmund playas of the world. I don’t begrudge his ‘game skillz”, but to my sensibilities, this story is very brazen. But, as we’ve said, he gets… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

Sentient, I’ll no longer be replying substantively to you or ASD anymore. Keep ranting all you want, if it makes you feel good.

Grow up, guys.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

I believe that if our society is going to continue in a somewhat civilized way, it’s going to take guys standing up for civilized behavior and enforcing some standards of conduct, both on female hypergamy and the Goldmund playas of the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMYNfQlf1H8

Here we go… White KNight Quixote’s to the barricades! All in the name of standards mind you.

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Yes a question that you are incapable of pondering, or answering it seems, is a rant… Of course, of course.

Why so uncomfortable on this point?

Sentient
Sentient
4 years ago

Do you hear the Betas sing?
Singing the songs of angry men?
It is the music of the people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes

SJB
SJB
4 years ago

@Kid Jupiter: I hear what you are saying yet also recall hearing about a man named Paris and a woman named Helen; a man named David and a woman named Bathsheba.

It’s almost as if Goldmund and Aussie chick are the current actors in a very long running production.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

How do you have your woman not cheat on you or be stolen by a GU (Goldmund Unleashed)?

By eliminating her motive and opportunity. Work on the former and your job is well begun and half done. You do that by having her decide that of her own free will. Not because you explained it to her. Because she wants and feels it that way. Because of who you are.

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . when I pay the piper, I call the tune.” If you wish me to play a particular tune we can discuss terms, ahead of time and bearing in mind that I’m more likely to say no than yes, and I will not pay your communications costs for you to find out which. For the most part though, while requests may be honored, people generally pay me to find out what tunes I feel like playing. Not infrequently they find tunes they didn’t know they would want to request that way. But then there’s a difference between… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Keith

There is much utility in blue pill beta men,there is no relational equity never has been.

If the Ausie girl was a whore by definition she would have been giving it to the the man paying the bill instead of being creeped out by him. He was in her frame and she was looking to get it smashed.

She gave gman the save me look so he did.

SJF
SJF
4 years ago

Illimitable Man’s Machiavellian Maxim #14:

Machiavellianism does not determine one’s morals, one’s morals determine the use of Machiavellianism. He who believes he is too moral for Machiavellianism is no more moral than he is an idiot.

Blaximus
4 years ago

@ my man Chump- ” Nature disagrees with you. “Eggs are expensive” because it takes significant resources and 9 months to fully gestate that egg, and then a near life time of commitment and provisioning to ensure that egg is able to perform as nature expects.” Yeah, I get all of that. Time intensive. Got kids myself. Buuttt…. The bottom line is that there an overabundance of women on this planet, making no ” one ” particularly special in her ability to give birth. You’re talking from a commitment aspect, I’m speaking from a bottom lined biological aspect. My wife… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
4 years ago

stuffinbox:

“She gave gman the save me look so he did.”

Queen Pussy. She’s got the pussy, she makes the rules. Is that how I’m to interpret that?

kfg
kfg
4 years ago

” . . . an egg is worthless without sperm.”

Her: We bring life into the world.
Him: Do tell. OK, go ahead, show me.

“Queen Pussy. She’s got the pussy, she makes the rules. Is that how I’m to interpret that?” asked King Wallet.

Morpheus
4 years ago

Beta Australian because of his blue pill conditioning didn’t know he was trying to handle a scorpion. This guy is getting pounded on for his cluelessness despite that he was acting within what he’d been taught. You DON’T KNOW what he has or has not been potentially exposed to knowledge wise. I’ve come across many white knight BPers desperate to stay plugged into the Matrix. They deserve every horrendous indignity that comes their way. There is the expression “Ignorance is no excuse for violating the law”. In this day and age, with the wide availability of the Internet and for… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
4 years ago

@Kid Guess you can interpret it however you want. The way I see it she is stuck with a simp that just doesn’t get it,thinking that paying her way gives him any hold without a contract is calling her a prostitute. To her this guy is more fun than that guy,she would rather party and give it away than be tied down to obligation to a guy that presumes paying her way is attractive while it isn’t. Now this may change for her when she turns into Sheryl Sandburg but for now she wants to have fun. She wants to… Read more »

Morpheus
4 years ago

Mersonia,

That was funny!

Morpheus
4 years ago

Kid Jupiter,

Just curious, how old are you?

Morpheus
4 years ago

In regards to the call for tribal rules, honor among men and in-group altruism, there has to be a tribe in place. There was not. A tribe of 250,000 people is not a tribe. A tribe of humans is 75-100 persons max. That’s where tribal rules are likely to get enforced. In today’s society there is no uncles, parents, and grandparents around to shame social mis-behaviors. And feminism pretty much assured that there are no shaming of women’s behavior, nor minimal space Patriarchal rules in a large society. You have to rely on a small unit of society to do… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
4 years ago

“women will break rules for Alpha men while creating and imposing new/more rules for Beta men to access her sexuality. I would expand this to say that Beta men will, via their preconditioning, impose those rules upon themselves before they even meet a woman with whom to invest themselves in.”

Stop digging fellas. We struck gold.

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