State Control

Reader, constrainedlocus had an interesting thought in the Anger Bias essay comment thread:

“The point is that a feminine-primary social order readily makes this nature a useful tool in dismissing what would otherwise be valid, but uncomfortable Red Pill truth. This anger bias mechanism is a tool for message control.”

What I find interesting is that, from my own personal observations of men in both marriage and long-term relationships, is that this dismissal happens readily and frequently at the micro level in sexual relationships as well. It’s impossible for men not to notice the hypocrisy.

A man need not experience the trivialization of his anger from “the sisterhood” response in the media, in the corporate setting, or even while at a party with other couples.

I think it now common for a wife or long-term girlfriend to assume a certain privilege or “authority” to express and direct her own anger, indignation and outrage rather freely and loudly – whenever she wishes – toward her male companion, without much consequence.

But should her male companion ever lose his composure, raise his voice in anger toward here, then this is either considered “verbal abuse”, an uncalled for overreaction, or his complaint is simply trivialized, ridiculed or disqualified by her, much like she would belittle the tantrum of her own young child.

Who has not witnessed wives scold their husbands in public at a restaurant or at a park like little children for his getting angry at her attitude or behavior? “Don’t you EVER raise your voice at me, mister!”.

I realize this is all about a man’s frame in the relationship.
I know that it is a weak man who tolerates this, while a wise man just ignores or nexts it.

Indeed, it is all about control.

But I still find it fascinating the confidence level with which so many women feel they can just scoff and ridicule the anger of men in relationships overtly, while unilaterally assuming the validity and overriding importance of their own anger whenever convenient for them.

It’s seems like an added bolt-on power up of feminist triumphalism.

Even among ourselves, we men are not supposed to show such angry emotions, at risk of verbal abuse or a humiliating well-deserved fucking beat down. Us dudes are to be these rational Vulcans walking around and doing shit, deleting emotion commands from our code. Because the thought is this: allowing someone else’s behavior to determine your feelings and emotional response is regarded as a sign of male weakness.
Anger should be expressed infrequently, and when expressed, done decisively and with brevity and action.

I think a lot of dudes recovering from blue pill conditioning struggle with this immensely, and are not sure what to do when their anger and frustration is openly minimized, trivialized or negated by their wife or LTR.

In a feminine-primary social order men are expected to show exactly this emotional restraint out of fear for being considered a typical, angry bully for any marginal display of aggressiveness. Yet, men are simultaneously conditioned to be emotionally expressive, emotionally available, in order to be ‘fully actualized’ human beings. They’re taught that strength is weakness and weakness is strength, and that vulnerability and emotionalism makes them whole persons.

Then the narrative changes again as per the needs of the Feminine Imperative. Men who are agreeable and show humility are punished with a removal of women’s sexual interest in them, while more conventionally masculine men, more Alpha, potentially more aggressive men who display outward signs of it – the emotions they’re taught to repress – are more commonly rewarded with women’s sexual interests.

When you have a social structure based on a calculated duplicity and confusion of purpose is it any wonder we see a generation of frustrated Betas with a perceived potential for violence? We’re supposed to delete emotional commands, but also to be more emotionally available and in touch (whatever the fuck that means) with our emotions. What it really comes down to is men are socialized to be automatons whose emotional connection should only apply to those emotions that benefit and complement with the Feminine Imperative and repress the emotions that frighten or potentially threaten the Feminine Imperative. In other words, to become more like women is to become a more perfected ‘man’ by today’s metric.

Blank-slate Feminism

We presently live in a feminine-primary social order that wants to convince us that egalitarian equalism is the normative presumption between men and women. The blank-slate idea is that men are the functional equivalents of women, but, for all the social constructivism, men need to train, learn, be conditioned to constrain the aspects of themselves that conflict with their identities becoming more like women in their emotional nature. If boys and men can be conditioned (or medically treated) to repress every evolved aspect of their maleness that conflicts with aligning with the feminine they can be trained to be ostensibly more ‘equal’ beings. In this mindset, for a man to become more ‘equal’ he must be more feminine.

The normative belief is that boys and men are simply unperfected women, but the subtext to this is that men and women, binary genders, are (or ought to be) functional equivalents. This too is based on the (I believe flawed) Jungian theory of anima and animus; that no matter the sex, every ‘person’ has some counterbalancing elements of male and female nature to them. I believe this is a flawed theory for the simple fact that men and women have never been functional equals from an evolutionary standpoint and modern science is disproving Jung’s (often metaphysical) presumptions with neurological and hormonal (and the functional behaviors that derive from either sex’s innate structures) understanding that didn’t exist in Jung’s time.

I’ve dug into why I have a problem with Jung in the past, but the point I’m making is that, in Jung, the Feminine Imperative and 2nd and 3rd wave feminist agendas have had an incestuous affair with his theories and conflating overwhelmingly disproven blank-slate equalism. This conflation of flawed theory has been the foundation for normalizing the social feminization of boys and men for almost a century now.

With this equalist presumption as a point of origin, the first step is to condition boys for emotional control.

State Control

Emotions have an evolutionary purpose in men and women. We can trace the manifested behaviors of emotional response to survival-specific functions. Oxytocin, for instance, predisposes human beings to feelings of trust and nurturing which primarily affects women most. The effects of testosterone, which men produce 12-17 times the amount that women do, are well known and masculinize the human body. These are just some basic hormonal differences, but the function behind the effects of those hormones (as well as men and women neurological structure) is where we run into conflict with the Feminine Imperative.

For millennia, boys and men have been taught to control their emotive states. This practice in control isn’t something that sprang up a few hundred years ago, we’re talking ancient cultures teaching their young men to resist losing their rational state-control over to an emotionalism that had a potential to get a man into some serious trouble. In some respects this self-control has been a necessary part of men’s upbringing, but also because men and women experience emotional states differently as a result of evolved biological differences. Women tend to process negative emotions differently than men. This processing isn’t due to some socially constructed acculturation, it is the result of the differences in men and women’s mental firmware. This is also a primary reason why making an emotional impact on a woman, positive or negative, is a source of stimulation for them. Men’s arousal may be founded on visual cues, but women are wired for emotional cues.

Likewise, men’s emotive states run a different gamut than that of women. As I mentioned in the Anger Bias essay, men are less predisposed to emotional states that women believe are beneficial in their own experience. In a feminine-correct social state, where women’s experiences define the norm, and in a social constructivist perspective, this amounts to a ‘repression’ of emotions. The idea is that an overly masculine acculturation of boys leads them to holding back the emotions that women tend to build their lives around. The real truth is that men process emotions, and prioritize the expression of those emotions, much more as a result of our own mental firmware than social repression.

That’s not to say there isn’t some social influence over teaching men to learn self-control over those emotions. As I just mentioned, young men have been taught for millennia to have state control by each other, their mentors and their peers, but since the time of the sexual revolution and the rise of a feminine primary social order this state control has been turned into a net negative.

So, in a sense, young men of the last 4-5 generations are caught between pleasing two masters. To be considered the ‘equal’ that feminine-primary egalitarianism would have them be they must first get in touch with their emotions. However, the only emotions they are taught are valid are those that make them more alike and identifying with women; nurturing, crying, expressing vulnerability, etc., essentially anything not characteristic of conventional masculinity. This of course has the effect of women subconsciously perceiving them as they would other women, and not potential intimates. Essentially, this aligning with women’s experience of emotion desexualizes men.

Yet, on the other hand, men are expected to repress their emotions in terms of having a state control that appeals to women’s Hypergamous need for security. Thus, the emotions that might better serve men in a survivalist utility are exactly those which feminine-correct society considers negative or ‘toxic’ and therefore must be controlled. The problem inherent in all of this is that it is feminine-primacy that is defining what men’s experience of emotion is acceptable despite it being the cause of so much of women’s frustration with men.

As the saying goes, women get the men they deserve and the emotive, masculine-confused men of today are simply the result of a social order that’s standardized the female experience as the definition of what blank-slate equalism should be for both sexes – but really as a means of social control for women whose experience is defined by an unsolvable need for certain security.

None of this is to say men ought not to express themselves emotionally or avoid being artists and poets or whatever in favor of some uninspired stoicism, but it is to say that Red Pill aware men should also be aware of the feminine-primary influences informing their expectations of expressing any or no emotion. That may seem like a drawn out way of saying ‘own your emotions’, but it’s my belief that for men to reclaim conventional masculinity it will require them to honestly assess why and how they choose to express or control their emotional states based on their own definition of what is correct from a male perspective, not the female perspective.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

372 comments on “State Control

  1. @Softek

    I don’t want you to get paranoid, but in my limited experience, a woman asking you to trust her tends to mean that she can’t be trusted. Acta non verba. It may be a bridge too far for her to truly empathise with you, but if your perception of her fidelity was an issue for her, then she would self-regulate her behaviour. She would ditch GNOs, beta oribiters etc i.e. she would mate guard herself. And there’s also the tricky fact that for her to see you mate guarding her comes off as being an insecure beta.
    What to do? It’s a fine line to walk. It’s been discussed here endlessly, but your best bet is probably to show that you CAN live without her; that when (not if) she cheats, you will drop her and move on without any pain. Do your own guy’s nights out, but don’t make it look like tit for tat. A bit of Dread might keep her honest.

  2. Off topic but just thought I’d share something that happened at work today.

    Sometimes I work freelance as a lighting technician (electrician) on film/tv projects. Today we had a bunch of extras (supporting artistes lol) filming in a bar, anyway this one chick mid 20’s about 5 ft 3 and at least 250+ lbs, not bad face, huge tits but definitely obese, being generous SMV 2?? starts flirting with my colleague.

    No homo but the guy is 6ft 2, 185 and amateur kick boxer, in shape handsome guy guessing SMV 8/9 his gf is model quality SMV 9.

    Anyway this fat chick passed him a note with her name/ number and call me message on her way out! I laughed when he showed me and said ” fuck me ive thrown some Hail Mary passes with chicks in my time but she’s taking the piss! “.

    This guy is at least 5-6 SMV points above her and I’ll give her respect for having the “balls” to go for it but the thing that worries me is that she probably doesn’t think it was a ballsy move on her part, she probably believes she can get that guy!

    I know women make the mistake of believing the men they can fuck are the same as the ones they can get to commit but this was just fucking ridiculous! Do these uggo fat chicks really receive that much validation from thirsty betas that they believe they can get guys 5-6 SMV points above them?

    Wow I knew they were deluded but it seems much worse than
    I thought! No wonder they can’t settle for betas, even SMV + 2 doesn’t seem enough to satisfy their Hypergamy!!

  3. I just re-read your original comment, Softek, and ASD’s.
    If she *does* all that, well congratulations, you may have just found yourself a unicorn.
    But I don’t like how she has phrased her offer. It’s a hidden shit test. She knows this stuff is probably important to you, but instead of just doing it herself, she puts the onus on you to make the call. If you are insecure enough to ask her, you’ve outed yourself . If you don’t, status quo remains.
    Good luck.

  4. @Mineter

    If she *does* all that, well congratulations, you may have just found yourself a unicorn.

    Guess again. Women can be trained to mateguard themselves. Unicorns are fiction. It takes a man with some balls to train a woman.

    Most men have shipped their balls off to ISIS.

  5. @Softek

    But I don’t like how she has phrased her offer. It’s a hidden shit test. She knows this stuff is probably important to you, but instead of just doing it herself, she puts the onus on you to make the call.

    This is all bullshit. A man has to lead.

    If you are insecure enough to ask her, you’ve outed yourself .

    You never fucking ask a woman to mateguard herself. You set expectations if she wants an exclusive arrangement. It’s a matter of frame. You make her qualify herself to be worthy of your exclusivity.

  6. @kfg
    Lou Reed is now transphobic? Ok. So Oceana has always been at war with Eastasia, too?

    The ultimate collapse of the Social Justice clique is going to involve a lot of tears, enough to fill an Olympic swimming pool. Hopefully no blood, unlike the Cultural Revo.

  7. If you act in a way where she will mateguard herself, great. If you have to ask her, not so great.

    I’m not sure we disagree on this ASD. Perhaps I have been imprecise.

    I don’t think it’s “training” as such. The moment she considers her man not worthy enough, she’ll forget her training. Because yes, Frame is arguably everything.

  8. was wondering that myself, Mineter; I thought you two were kinda saying similar things

    then I got distracted by some shiny thing and forgot to comment

  9. @Mineter

    Lol, I’ve been into the sangria…a nice picnic date on the front porch with Mrs. Gamer wearing just a sarong with a tropical print & I’m wearing a tropical shirt, shorts, and a very cool hat made out of palm. Just sitting together and chatting about nothing in particular. I so love listening to Mrs. Gamer’s voice. I lose track of what she’s saying because I enjoy listening. Maybe an autism thing, lol.

    I made the sammiches, lol, using rye bread, which Mrs. Gamer said that she hates, but she loved these sammiches. Mrs. Gamer was very flirty, as always. Who knows what the night holds? We’ll watch Netflix and I’ll get back into the sangria and maybe get wasted, which is quite rare for me. I’ve got a nice buzz on now.

    I froze orange and lime slices for the sangria and used some frozen grapes as ice cubes. I used wine glasses because they are crystal…thinking about it, I could have used the goblets which we use for water at formal dinners.

    I’m rambling because I’m buzzed and enjoying myself. Ok, on to Netflix!!!

  10. @Softek

    Hey, I had a long day at work and then went to a funeral and reception for my buddies mother, so if I say anything disjointed it’s cause my brain is a little foggy. And I won’t address ASD’s mate guarding because I think this is more about Softek’s performance and not getting her to act in a certain way.

    Man O Man, you got too much Blue Pill Baggage to unpack. You are being nice guy and when you say no you feel guilty.

    You are entering her Frame. And you will enter up a Career Beta. In general she is playing Pro-grade Game to get you to commit and you are playing Little League ball.

    “What would setting limits involve?”

    Not allowing her silly little girl statements to be on record as fact in a covert contract between you two.

    Here’s and example in a different vein of setting limits. A half a year ago my wife and I were DTF and both enjoyed it. Afterwards I went about my way and perhaps went to watch something on television and recharge my batteries by being alone because of other things. My wife said some things to me and we got into a mini argument. Don’t remember the details.

    I wasn’t up to arguing and it wasn’t about anything important. But my wife leveled on the scene with the statement: Hey I just had sex with me and now your’e being mean to me/arguing. No fair. She basically was trying to point to a covert contract that I hadn’t signed: Wife has sex with you and you are obligated to be nice to her soon there after.

    So I disabused her of that notion. Ignored her and didn’t sweat the details and moved on. That is setting limits. I stuck to the bill of assertive rights and the next morning the emotion blew over like I knew it would. (I certainly thought the moment was humorous and I laughed in my head when she said it. Silly little girl, you’re funny.)

    You don’t let your girlfriend dictate the terms. You don’t even have to be a dick about laying down a line to not transgress. Amused mastery is your friend most times. But being pissed and yelling NO! is OK at times also.

    Here’s your version of the same scenario her overt contract:

    “She told me (paraphrasing): “I thought when I had sex with you it would mean enough to you that you would never want any other girls. I thought that it meant something to you, that it was special to you, and that I would be enough for you. It’s insulting and degrading to me that you would want to have sex with other girls after I had sex with you.”


    “It’s insulting and degrading to me that you would want to have sex with other girls after I had sex with you.”

    “I’d be willing to stop talking to or associating with any guys you didn’t want me talking to or associating with anymore. I’d drop them in a heartbeat. I just want to be able to trust you.”

    That is just strait up shit test, communicate with me all wrapped up in one.

    She’s playing you. Her value to you is her value after you fucking her. Do not agree to her covert contract.


    1. You have the right to judge your own behaviors, thoughts and emotions, and to take
    responsibility for their initiation and consequences upon yourself.
    2. You have the right to offer no reasons or excuses for justifying your behavior.
    3. You have the right to judge if you are responsible for finding solutions to other
    people’s problems.
    4. You have the right to change your mind.
    5. You have the right to make mistakes and be responsible for them.
    6. You have the right to say “I don’t know.”
    7. You have the right to be independent of the goodwill of others before coping with
    8. You have the right to be illogical in making decisions.
    9. You have the right to say “I don’t understand.”
    10. You have the right to say “I don’t care.”
    11. You have the right to say “no.”
    12. You have the right to do less then you are humanly capable of doing.
    13. You have the right to take the time you need to respond.
    14. You have the right to disagree with others regardless of their position or numbers.
    15. You have the right to feel all of your emotions (including anger) and express them
    16. You have the right to ask questions.
    17. You have the right to be treated with respect.
    18. You have the right to ask for what you want.
    19. You have the right to feel good about yourself, your actions and your life.
    20. You have the right to exercise any and all of the these rights, without feeling guilty.

    You asked:

    How could I respond to something like:

    “I’d be willing to stop talking to or associating with any guys you didn’t want me talking to or associating with anymore. I’d drop them in a heartbeat. I just want to be able to trust you.”

    You would respond to that with amused mastery (assuming you actually were amused and not butt-hurt, and assuming you actually had mastery).

    This is the most stupid silly statement a 16 year old girl with an adolescent skill set. Attractive LTR partners (including wives) must associate with other attractive men and you must associate with other attractive females in order to properly calibrate the relationship in the privacy of your own cocoon. Other wise the girl will go bat shit crazy and BPD. A healthy relationship of couples must involve socializing with other attractive couples and single males and females. Mate guarding is not a lock em up and throw away the key proposition.

    Her statement is laughable. First is flies in the face of Hypergamy. It’s a suckers bet and a lie.

    Setting Limits here: Call her out on it being bullshit and don’t take the bait. (with amused mastery, not butt-hurt) She is straight up baiting you to get your commitment. Once you commit, she’ll laugh in your face when you call her out on her promise when she stops having sex with you as a Career Beta and you slide into her female stages of manipulation.

    It is your job to make yourself more Alpha and your job to self improve to the point that you are attractive and that you arouse her and then you keep working on it.

    “she has zero interest in dating or sleeping with any other guys, is only sexually attracted to me, etc.”

    Said no woman’s emotions ever. Unless she found her unicorn. She is saying this. She certainly won’t act that way for ever. She will act as her emotions drive her after you commit. She still wants dual strategy AF/BB. Is she going to get super Alpha from you? Is she going to get great Beta providership with endless amounts of support for her and her children? From You? Forever including when she has a baby? If not, then what is basis for making this claim? Her emotions telling her she is in love with you right now? Guess how changeable a woman’s emotions are?

    She’s either lying or being lazy. She wants to lock you down. Then watch her get stupid lazy. She wants to lock you down and get pregnant. She will draw up a covert contract to get pregnant by you and get you to mentally sign that covert contract because you will get lazy in your own right. Because she is setting too high a hurdle for you to jump over.

    Sorry about disjointed response to your questions. You get the idea though. This is on you to fix you, not her to fix herself. It is not a what the fuck? scenario unless you are in grief. All of her actions are entirely predictable with a red pill lens. Yes it’s frustration, yes it is illogical, yes it’s hard to fix unhealthy, yes it doesn’t feel good and your soul is telling your cognitive brain you want to fuck other woman and not have her lock you down. But it is what it is. And it is fixable. You just are too scared to use the keys to unlock your little comfortable prison cell. You are too entrapped in your self-expectation and self-imposed limitations. You are putting yourself in a straight jacket.

  11. @Softek

    I’m going to try to get around the way WordPress handles reddit essays here (by posting the whole thing). So I’m just going to try to post the Google results that has it come up first when typing in “MRP Beginner’s Guide for the Career Beta”.

    But there was a really good essay on a scenario of the Career Beta and some suggestions on how to deal with getting out of that position. There are parallels to your situation. But there are some good red pill advice on tactics:

    Small exerpt:

    Step 2: There is No Spoon

    Supposing then that the Career Beta can find his Morpheus, the first thing he must do is reject the doctrine of self-sacrifice as a moral code. He must come to understand that his family, friends, and wife do not want or need him to sacrifice his dreams and values. In a complimentary fashion, he has to stop expecting others to do the same. Before anyone wonders what I mean by “sacrifice” here, Ayn Rand provides a concise definition for this context:

    “Sacrifice” is the surrender of that which you value in favor of that which you don’t.

    This is Career Beta to a T, as he has given up his whole world in an attempt to make his woman love him. Changing Career Beta’s outlook here will be the most important step in his transformation. It will destroy the beta foundation of his behavior. This will also be the most difficult step, as Career Beta will likely want to reject the egoism of RP ideology as selfish and manipulative. Career Beta must break through the altruist frame or he cannot progress.

    If Career Beta can accept these ideas and truly reject altruism, he is ready for the remedial therapeutic self-help books No More Mr. Nice Guy and When I Say No, I Feel Guilty. If not, he may literally need to spend time studying philosophy: a read of Rand’s Fountainhead and The Virtue of Selfishness may help, then followed by NMMNG and WISNIFG.

    Also, once the self-sacrificing Nice Guy antics are recognized, they must be stopped. Career Beta must first learn to put some distance between himself and his wife. He must strive to make his interactions with her emotionally neutral while he regroups.

    Step 2 should take about 3 weeks or a month, but must continue as long as it has to, until the altruism is purged.

  12. @Rollo,

    On the CH blog The Assumed Alpha post a commentor, CalvinDecline, wrote:


    Speaking of try-hard…

    Anyone, CH included, have any advice on how to interact with guys and not be a total chode? Is there a site for something like that, or should I just file it under “socializing skills/personality”?

    Like a poster above mentioned… I find I’m silent in a lot of group conversations more often than not. I work in a place with a lot of “assumed alphas”. Plenty of super tall, stone faced/emotionless dudes I interact with… so I just kinda follow suit.

    This site has really rounded me out when it comes to ladies, but my issue now is when it comes to just talking like a normal person among men. It’s painfully obvious when I’m out with my girl at a bar and we end up in socializing with a group of strangers.

    Maybe I’m just thinking about it too hard and need to drop any expectations.”

    Any posts on this?

    I think this topic would round out GAME for a lot of us here. Its not just about interacting positively with women. Its positive interaction with guys too, right?

  13. @Softie – The answer is always the same. Go fuck another girl. A few would be even better. The next time she says something like that, you just ghost her for a bit. And fuck the other girls. She’ll either come back and be a plate or you’ll be rid of a fucking boat anchor.

    But your current approach? Why make the suffering last, why not just put a gun to your head and pull the fucking trigger now? What on earth are you doing with that fat, wall hitting brood sow?

    Go fuck another woman.

    Go fuck another woman.

    Go fuck another woman.

    Go fuck another woman.

    You will immediately stop being concerned with what Cuntessa McBitchy has to say, and when she gives you shit you will just fade. You are negotiating with a terrorist and a child, wrapped in bunch of lard.

    Go fuck another woman.

    Go fuck another woman.

    Go fuck another woman.

    Go fuck another woman.

    You will know what I mean when you do it. Suddenly the knot in your stomach about crazy McBPD bitch will loosen up. You will actually stop thinking about her. The moment you blow your load into another chick, it’s like, what on earth am doing letting her get to me?

    It’s just gash. A man always has a center that is unaffected by women. They come and they go, and one is just as good as another. It makes no difference. It’s true even if you don’t know it.

    Last. Learning implies a permanent change in thought patterns and behavior. Anything short of that isn’t learning at all. I know you Softie, you are a great young man with much more on the ball than you realize. It’s time to do, instead of talk. There is nothing more to learn. There is just the doing now. Go fuck another woman. Now. I don’t care if she’s a whore – just go have sex with another woman.

    As for her? SJF nailed, as did others. This is just about her controlling you. Appropriate response? Kiss her forehead and tell her, “You’re kind of cute when you are jealous.” And then go do something else.

  14. @Nathan

    “Its positive interaction with guys too, right?”

    Hell Yes! It is crucial and critical to have a core group of guys in order to game well. It is often most overlooked. And the key is positive masculinity.

    These two are along those lines:

    Another suggestion is to read Jack Donovan’s Book: The Way of Men to understand what a guy that is good at being a man looks like instead of trying to be “a good man” for your girl.

    Here is a link to one of the Chapters on why Honor among men is so important:


    To honor a man is to acknowledge his accomplishments and recognize that he has attained a higher status within the group.

    If we stop there and say that honor is merely high group status, we still have a definition of honor that would be unrecognizable to the knights, the samurai, the ancient Greeks, and the ancient Romans who—among many others—give the idea of honor the noble, mythic quality that makes it so appealing.

    The reason for this is simple.

    Honor has always been about the esteem of groups of men.

    As it relates to understanding the masculine ethos:

    Honor is a man’s reputation for strength, courage and mastery within the context of an honor group comprised primarily of other men.

    Stated as a masculine virtue:

    Honor is a concern for one’s reputation for strength, courage and mastery within the context of an honor group comprised primarily of other men.

    There are moral codes and cultural codes of honor that factor into men’s estimation of the men within their honor groups, but the point here is to reduce masculinity to first principles without getting lost in a morass of variable cultural honor codes.

    Part of Game is Social strength, courage, mastery and honor among men. Otherwise know as don’t be a pussy. Leader of men was also a core component of Mystery Method.

  15. @Nathan

    Another thing in cultivating relationships with other guys is that it is hard to re-do your poorly managed efforts of previous merit within in a group. No one wants to redo, what has already been done well. I mean I can work on my merit within the group of guys at the country club, but gosh, I only golf about 5 to 10 rounds a year and some of them golf ten times that much and it is Alpha and Amog’s galore. I still manage (and have redone my status at the CC well), but it is best to cultivate new groups rather than rehabilitate old groups. And you do have to put in the work. New green fields are more cultivate-able than old established fields.

    This is analogous to the fact that breaking old habits is hard. It is better to cultivate new habits. The framework in your old social networks has been set in stone over time over years like concrete and takes effort to break it up and reset it.

    So move on and cultivate new guy networks by putting in the work of cultivating.

    Daniel Coyle PRO-TIP #46


    When it comes to dealing with bad habits, many of us try to attack the problem head-on, by trying to break the habit. This tactic, of course, doesn’t work, and we’re left with the old truth—habits are tough to break. The blame lies with our brains. While they are really good at building circuits, they are awful at unbuilding them. Try as you might to break it, the bad habit is still up there, wired into your brain, waiting patiently for a chance to be used.

    The solution is to ignore the bad habit and put your energy toward building a new habit that will override the old one.

    The concept of Rat Packs is not for nothing. Just ask Rollo and Christian McQueen.

    Girls come and go, but your male friends can be there for life. I can promise you that if you have some real, loyal male friends, they will more than likely outlast any relationship you have with a woman. Never forget the importance of building your own Rat Pack.

    Go build your rat pack. And don’t go small. Pick out the best. Avoid the unhappy and the unlucky.

  16. While this post is great example of practical Red Pill psychology, I must echo the other commenters and point out that it is an inaccurate description of the relation between Carl Jung and feminism.

    While Rollo misunderstand’s Jung’s theory of anima and animus (it does not equal blank slate equalism), I’ll leave this issue aside and focus on the claim that Jung had a major influence on feminism:

    “ …in Jung, the Feminine Imperative and 2nd and 3rd wave feminist agendas have had an incestuous affair with his theories and conflating overwhelmingly disproven blank-slate equalism.”

    If Jung had a strong influence on feminism, it would be trivially easy to verify by consulting the standard histories of feminism and anthologies of its key works, such as these:

    Feminism: A Very Short Introduction, ed. Margaret Walters

    Feminism: The Essential Historical Writings, ed. Miriam Schneir

    Feminist Political Theory: An Introduction, ed. Valerie Bryson

    Feminist Thought: A More Comprehensive Introduction, ed. Rosemarie Tong

    The Routledge Companion to Feminism and Postfeminism, ed. Sarah Gamble

    If Jung were as important to feminism as Rollo claims, there would be a chapter, at least, in each of these books, but they don’t even mention Jung. Far from being foundational to feminism, Jung is irrelevant to the movement’s history.

    Indeed, this irrelevance is occasionally noted by feminists, such as Susan Rowland, who wrote Jung: A Feminist Revision (2002), in which she lamented that “Feminism has neglected Jung to its own detriment.” Has Rowland initiated a feminist reappraisal of Jung? To judge from Amazon’s Books that Cite this Book statistic, the answer is “no:” only eight books cite it, one of which is another of Rowland’s

    To sum up:

    • A representative sampling of histories of feminism and anthologies do not even mention Jung.
    • When a feminist writes a book trying to get other feminists interested in Jung, after 10 years, her book is cited seven times- a miserable failure in terms of influence.

    This raises the question: why are feminists so uninterested in Jung?

    Probably because he says things like this:

    Jung in 1912 on tragic American marriages:

    “The women are the mothers of their husbands as well as of their children, yet at the same time there is in them the old, old primitive desire to be possessed, to yield, to surrender. And there is nothing in the man for her to surrender to except his kindness, his courtesy, his generosity, his chivalry.”

    “To-day the American woman is still confused. She wants independence, she wants to be free to do everything, to have all the opportunities which men have, and, at the same time she wants to be mastered by man and to be possessed in the archaic way of Europe.”

    “You think your young girls marry European husbands because they are ambitious for titles. I say it is because, after all, they are not different from the European girls; they like the way European men make love, and they like to feel we are a little dangerous. They are not happy with their American husbands because they are not afraid of them. It is natural, even though it is archaic, for women to want to be afraid when they love. If they don’t want to be afraid then perhaps they are becoming truly independent, and you may be producing the real ‘new woman.’ But up to this time your American man isn’t ready for real independence in woman. He only wants to be the obedient son of his mother-wife.”

    “No one can get around the fact that by taking up a masculine profession, studying and working like a man, woman is doing something not wholly in accord with, if not directly injurious to, her feminine nature.” Jung 1970b page 117 Jung ‘Woman’ C G Jung,‘Woman in Europe’, in his Civilization in Transition 2nd edn., trans. R F C Hull, Routledge & Kegan Paul.

    In a letter to his then-friend Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung wrote, “The prerequisite for a good marriage, it seems to me, is the license to be unfaithful.” (January 30, 1910.)

    “the feminine element in man is only something in the background, as is the masculine element in woman. If one lives out the opposite sex in oneself one is living in one’s own background, and one’s real individuality suffers. A man should live as a man and a woman as a woman.” Woman in Europe 1927 Coll. Works, vol. 10 p 243

    “Woman always stands just where the man’s shadow falls, so that he is only too liable to confuse the two. Then, when he tries to repair this misunderstanding, he overvalues her and believes her the most desirable thing in the world.” Woman in Europe 1927 Coll. Works, vol. 10 p 236

    Given the above statements, it should be clear why Jung was never a significant influence on feminism.

    See also this Return of Kings post:

  17. I was actually too busy with life (during two medical residencies, an occasional 120 hour work week with all night call every three days and generating children in the early nineties) to have heard much of Chris Cornell’s 90’s music.

    I was able to start listening to Audioslave in 2002. A song like Cochise was pretty darn primal and masculine. While–since forever–output from recording artists is on the whole blue pill, cause that sells to the masses of blue pill listeners, it is inspiring to listen to Cornell’s type of music. Because it is masculine infused. (Or is it? It certainly sounds like masculine experience.)

    Cochise was an Apache chief born in 1812. His name never shows up in the lyric, which has nothing to do with him. Audioslave guitarist Tom Morello came up with the title based on the vibe of the music – he was reading about Cochise at the time. Said Morello: “Cochise was the last great American Indian chief to die free and absolutely unconquered. When several members of his family were captured, tortured, and hung by the US Cavalry, Cochise declared war on the entire Southwest and went on an unholy rampage, a warpath to end all warpaths. He and his warriors drove out thousands of settlers. Cochise the Avenger, fearless and resolute, attacked everything in his path with an unbridled fury. This song kinda sounds like that.”
    This song takes aim at someone who seems to be wasting his life away, warning him that he needs to save himself.

    Chris Cornell did have someone specific in mind when he wrote it. He said the song is, “Me yelling at me, looking in the mirror.”

    It’s pretty hard to Accept what just happened. Looking forward to Rollo shedding some insight into what the heck is going on here. I remember reading a biography of Kurt Cobain, perhaps Heavier than Heaven 2001 and remember being un-accepting of the psychic pain in the pit of his stomach that Cobain went through, despite his artistic talent.

    Perhaps we could look forward to Rollo writing an essay one day addressing/dissecting the dynamic.

  18. Former Prime Minister David Cameron’s remark to Angela Eagle MP caused some consternation when it was uttered. But it highlights his disgust at her behaviour and willingness to hold her to account.

    The undertone of the ‘calm down, dear’ comment was to imply she was being hormonal.

    Note her response

    “Shadow chief secretary to the Treasury Angela Eagle, at whom the comment was aimed, said “a modern man” would not have “expressed himself that way”.”

    A modern man use to be someone who realised he had power or at least had it by association and was willing to relinquish it for the betterment of the other sex. But in the absence of a patriarchy he appears foolish for making these concessions.

    The wider point is a man has to be able to confront a woman and make his feelings known in a way that conveys it’s importance.

  19. @Mineter

    It’s not just a question of frame. Frame alone won’t keep a girl loyal–you have to train her to mateguard herself as well. Frame will let you keep banging a girl, but won’t keep her from banging alphas–she has to keep herself away from other alphas if she is to be loyal. A girl has to be trained to mateguard herself.

    No sangria now.

    Softek needs to get a hotter girl, if only to prove to himself that he can.

  20. Thanks for the post, Rollo, but I am not sure if I agree that there is truly conflicting message here from women regarding emotional displays from men. As always, there is a hidden message here and it seems to me it is just another tactic for winnowing Alpha from Beta.

    We all know sexual advances will be labled differently based on A) The smoothness (Game influenced) way they are delivered B) The otherwise desireability of the male making them. Advances in similar situations will be labled “creepy” or “tingle-inducing” based on the feelings of the woman, the “creepy” reaction labled as such in both word and action to discourage further advances from the undesirable males.

    In some cases, women use challenges to those advances to see who has the cojenes to perservere and not wilt in the face of (seemingly) negative reaction to it, and who folds and runs away, right?

    How are displays of anger any different?

    First, similar to sexual escalation, flirting and all that, there is certainly a wrong and right way to go about expressing anger. Childish explosions of anger from a grown man are unlikely to be taken well no matter how otherwise Alpha someone appears to be (because it betrayes Beta), while anger expressed in a controlled, deliberate or even cold state would elicit a more respectful response.

    But beyond that, is this “anger litmus” just another way to shift through men to find who really is at their core in control and self-confident? Are challenges to men’s anger just another shit-test?

    Just as male sexuality is shamed to see who retreats, male displays of anger are challenged as “unacceptable” in an attempt to see who backs down and says, “You’re right, sorry…” and who says, “Fuck that! You’re behavior is unacceptable. YOU knock that shit off!”

    From what I have read, psychologists think anger is an important emotion that drives us to take action when needed. That might be anything from bouncing back when you suffer a setback in trying to accomplish something to fighting back against someone threatening your family. From the female standpoint, it would seem very important to sort out which males both are comfortable with anger AND can channel it for maximum effect and not simply lose their shit.

    This is what I kept thinking as I read through your post.

  21. @SJF
    Hey, I had a long day at work and then went to a funeral and reception for my buddies mother, so if I say anything disjointed it’s cause my brain is a little foggy.

    And your brain should be a little foggy a little more often – this entire comment is gold. Precise and to-the-point. Like a dagger. Very good advice for Softek as well as for myself. I realized reading this comment mate-guarding is one of my problems and it has recently caused me being dumped by someone I was seriously considering as an ltr potential.

    Take heed Softek – the analysis offered here should be seriously considered.

    Thanks SJF

  22. The thing is Softek enjoys the straight jacket.

    Softs consider this guy!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1200/throuple14n-1-web.jpg

    Say what you will about tgis guy, he did the thing you can’t do. He acted on what he wanted.

    Until the pain of not acting is greater than that of acting or the reward of not acting is less than the reward for acting you will still be fluffing around here next year with the same emotionally laden crisis du jour.

  23. @Softek

    Not to pile on, but is the female in question here the exact same one from months ago? The woman you had Oneitis for that everyone here identified as a ticking time bomb?

  24. This statement I made:

    And I won’t address ASD’s mate guarding because I think this is more about Softek’s performance and not getting her to act in a certain way.

    And I won’t address ASD’s mate guarding because I think this is more about Softek’s performance and not: “getting her to act in a certain way”.

    There is a red pill difference.

    Don’t Suggest That a Woman Fix Her Own Emotional Problem:

    There are some analogies to what MRP works/books/essays like BluePillProfessor has written after careful and thorough distillation from other manoshphere writers (like Rollo) in fixing a dead bedroom to what guys like Softek are going through in relationship game. It’s better to not enter into a Beta Frame in the first place, than to recover from Beta Frame ten years from now.

    What Married Red Pill Game books lay out in how to fix a low sex marriage tells how to not have gotten yourself in that position from the start if you backwards engineer it. For example, there are cases of non-low sex relationships (long, intermediate and short term) in which the man is sliding into Beta mode and the woman fills the void of steering the relationship by default. Then the man will fall into beta mode after ten years.

    That being said, it is to set up this thought:

    MRP is about YOU and improving YOU. It is about leading and leading her, NOT about “forcing” her to follow.


    Dread Is strong medicine tightly focused on a single problem- a low sex marriage. Dread is designed to induce her to at least follow your lead when you initiate sex….however, submission is a choice, not something you force on a woman. Getting “submission” from a wife in all the other areas of your life, INCLUDING SEX means you have to demonstrate leadership competence NOT that you batter her into submission. Only in the special case of Deadbedrooms/low sex marriage and repeated sexual denials should you employ active Dread. Trust us guys! Active Dread Game is NOT going to make her more pleasant. It is NOT going to stop the Shit Tests. It is going to make her fight for the lead even harder so you usually should not use it as a tool to fight for the lead except in the case of sexual denial.

    Even in cases of non-low sex relationships the 12 step Plan of Dread still is necessary in developing Hand in the relationship where the woman is trying to pull you into her strong frame. (This is a scenario that commenters EhIntellect and Roused pulled themselves out of in a very nice fashion. Same scenario Softek is failing at on the way to Career Beta.)

    I’ll try to link the 12 step plan that was basis for BluePillProfessors Book here (link to the first Google search link so as to not post the whole MRP reddit post):

    If that doesn’t work search for “The 12 Step Plan of Dread: Book excerpt from my work in progress: “A Man’s Guide To Turning Around a Low Sex Marriage (X-Post from TRP)”

  25. Glass roof and all that, but I can’t resist as it is too punny.

    @Lost Patrol:
    It is the same one (the same Oneitis). She has Softek on a vice.

    P.S. The vice is her vagina.

  26. Oxford – Lavinia Woodward Pussy Pass
    Cambridge – Jabba The Hutu Dindu Pass
    Oxbridge Jalopies

  27. just thought I’d share a great quote:

    To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen, who play with their boats at sea -”cruising”, it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about.

    “I’ve always wanted to sail the South Seas, but I can’t afford it.” What these men can’t afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of “security”. And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine—and before we know it, our lives are gone.

    What does a man need—really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in—and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That’s all—in the material sense. And we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention from the sheer idiocy of the charade.

    The years thunder by. The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it the tomb is sealed.
    Where then lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

    Sterling Hayden – (1916—1986)

  28. Before I reply to all the excellent advice, which I am really appreciative of right now:

    For the record, I’m still posting about this because I’m GENUINELY CONFUSED, not because I am trying to get something out of an “emotionally laden crisis du jour.” Which would serve zero fucking purpose because I much prefer stewing in my own misery in complete isolation. If I wasn’t actually confused about my situation I wouldn’t be writing here.

    I read about “Alpha Tells” and it’s like okay…sexual submission, check. She HAS dropped her only slutty friend, the one whose main hobby was drinking and going to the bar and talking to guys. She HAS offered me the passwords to her FB and phone without me saying a word about it, adding “I don’t care if you go on either of them, I’m not hiding anything from you.”

    This causes a lot of confusion for me because on one hand I am apparently 100% bona fide Beta in the relationship, and then I’m thinking, then why does she submit to me sexually, why did she cut off her only friend whose main hobby was going to bars and talking to guys and has not associated with her at all for months and months, why would she offer me her passwords to her FB and phone, why would she constantly beg me to fuck her in the ass again when Rollo said anal is the ultimate example of a woman submitting to a man, etc.?

    It gets very confusing for me. She does things like that, which then conflict (in my mind and my understanding of the relationship) with her trying to control me, and exhibiting behaviors that would OTHERWISE be very recognizable as a Beta Tell on my part.

    I also lean heavily towards the autistic side, and things like manipulation are *EXTREMELY DIFFICULT* for me to understand. It only gets more confusing when people are saying watch what she DOES, not what she SAYS…….and she is exhibiting BEHAVIORS, not just words, but that can also potentially be manipulation? I am having a hard time understanding this.

    I genuinely don’t understand how the two (Beta and Alpha tells) can co-exist and this is a major gap in my RP understanding.

    I have a relationship experience of being a 100%, abject Beta, which differs GREATLY from my current relationship, is also making things harder for me to understand.

    I’ve been in a long distance relationship, YEARS ago, in which I was a complete Beta. That is my reference point. I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about that here. But the fact that it’s my reference point is important:

    It being a long-distance relationship is an easy Beta Tell, to start with. But on top of that, she NEVER sent me naked pictures except on one occasion, and she even told me it was for some school project. She didn’t even take one for me. Like, HELLO. It was a nude picture she had of herself from some art project that had nothing to do with me.

    Contrast that with current gf who has regularly sent me pictures of herself that she took exclusively for me, based on my requests, like telling her to take a picture or video of herself masturbating in a skirt or anything else I want.

    Trying to get long-distance girl sexually aroused was like trying to get blood out of a stone, and I CONSTANTLY felt like I was vying for her attention. I remember getting pissed off constantly that she’d ignore my e-mails and messages on Skype, would sometimes go days without responding to me, and getting pissed off constantly that I felt sexually denied, which felt even more degrading because it was a long-distance thing and I couldn’t have real sexual gratification anyway, and she couldn’t even give me that much. It was always “I’m tired” or “I have a headache” or some other stereotypical shit.

    Contrast that with current gf who initiates sex either completely on her own, or with some input from me, the input *specifically* being me getting a hard on and not saying anything at all, or sometimes just grabbing her hand and putting it on my dick. i.e., nonverbal sexual cues I vaguely exhibit that I expect her to pick up on and act on enthusiastically, which she does.

    Long distance girl: on the rare occasions we’d ever do anything sexual on webcam, she would turn all the lights off and everything would go pitch black. And I’d just end up jerking off after messaging her some sexual stuff while she would just say she was going to go lie down and masturbate. She wouldn’t even message back and forth with me. And then she’d just fall asleep.

    She’d also regularly make comments about how hot other guys were in movies and I told her that bothered me, and she would just say how it didn’t mean anything about “how much she was in love with me” and some bullshit about “I can still appreciate how beautiful other flowers are while still having a favorite flower.”

    And on her Facebook she thought nothing of uploading pictures of her hanging out with other guys, being asleep on the ground with them at parties, and shit like that.

    In other words, I’ve had the experience of being a 100% complete, ABJECT Beta/Gamma, and this relationship feels very different to me from that.

    THAT felt like being in a straight jacket. And with my current RP understanding I can EASILY see how fucked up that relationship was and was 100% in her Frame, and I served NO other purpose than being a Beta and being 100% degraded and used.

    So it could very well be that I’m still in a straight jacket in this current relationship. But because of my prior experience, I do feel “Alpha” in the relationship by comparison.

    Maybe it’s like a Depression era kid getting an orange and a bag of peanuts for Christmas feeling like he’s hit the Lotto.

    But can you understand that this is all I know? And I’m not trying to prove I’m “Alpha” in the relationship, or get sympathy here.

    I’m putting myself in a vulnerable position here and opening myself to potential humiliation by admitting that I DO feel “Alpha” in the relationship, because I realize that perception of myself in the relationship is fucking with my progress.

    By comparison to the “relationships” I’ve had in the past, this one is a lot better, and that’s why the temptation’s probably there to just call it quits.

    If a girl is being a complete whore and banging other guys and not having sex with me, then it’s like, DUH, I’m being a Beta.

    But when it’s more subtle I struggle SEVERELY with understanding the nuances.

  29. @SJF

    When Married Red Pill wrote: Dread Is strong medicine tightly focused on a single problem- a low sex marriage.

    …he meant: “Threatening your wife with divorce Is strong medicine tightly focused on a single problem- a low sex marriage.”

    …he did NOT mean going out and being around women or flirting with women at parties.

    Soft Dread (flirting and being around women) should be a staple of all Red Pill married men.

  30. @Softek

    I genuinely don’t understand how the two (Beta and Alpha tells) can co-exist and this is a major gap in my RP understanding.

    If a man lacks solid inner frame and unconscious competence, then he will exhibit a mix of alpha and beta tells. The alpha tells come from his effort to give off those alpha tells where he is competently doing so because of effort and the beta tells will come from his lack of competence and inner frame.

    she is exhibiting BEHAVIORS, not just words, but that can also potentially be manipulation? I am having a hard time understanding this.

    Lol, don’t worry if her behaviors are her aiming to manipulate you…is she doing what you want? Girls’ default moves are lying and manipulation…no big deal…girls will be girls…cats will be cats…problems come if you expect cats to act like dogs

  31. theasdgamer
    May 19, 2017 at 8:38 am

    Good clarification ASDgamer as that quote was out of context. BluePillProfessor described Levels of Dread to get the job done, not Dread for the sake of completing all the levels:



    “Dread” is putting the fear or ‘dread’ in your wife that you have other opportunities and other options rather than being chained to her whims. They HATE it- or at least they will TELL you they hate it- but women are irresistibly attracted to men who have options. This is well known as “Secondary Selection” or “Pre-selection Bias.”

    I conceptualize Dread as a continuum with level 5 being the baseline “Dread” for a good or excellent relationship. In other words, for most guys, Level 1-5 are personal and social self improvement so that your “Dread” is at the level that it should be. After level 5, however, Dread takes on a different tenor, that rapidly escalates to a better relationship- with either your wife or with somebody else.

    To clarify, these are sequential. You don’t go past level 5 if you are happy in the relationship. You don’t “cheat” until you have tried everything else and the marriage is already over.

    Move up these levels one at a time, slowly, and carefully, taking approximately 1 month for each level.

    Dread in a “healthy” or good relationship is Soft Dread and it is a natural state. Dread in unhealthy of fucked up relationship requires higher levels and is fraught with potential land mines but is sometimes necessary, including blowing up the relationship.

    I personally internalized Red Pill Truths and think that getting to Level 6 was important:

    Dread Level 6: Begin to study pickup artistry. Before you do anything stupid, use your newfound knowledge about the stages of seduction and pickup artistry on your wife. Give it some time and apply this knowledge to seducing your wife. Use pickup game first to try and save your marriage.

    My Reconstruction went well and I can fully resonate with Rollo’s Reconstruction series of essays. A lot of what I can explain these days about relationship game I experienced and went through myself in a mentally arduous process that was liberating in the end. (And in my case it was easier because I only had to reject what Beta-tization had made of me, thankfully not having had Blue Pill tendencies (other than mild social conditioning). Blue Pill was not in my core beliefs, I was always skeptical of that. And I internalized Red Pill.)

    From Rollo’s Reconstruction IV:

    However, if you find yourself awakened-while-married and you want to remake yourself, know that this change must be for yourself and not for your wife. This decision to reconstruct your life, your persona, your belief set, etc., and reject what the Blue Pill has made of you must come as a result of making yourself your mental point of origin. This ‘new you’ precludes any consideration of your wife’s interests. It must be in order for your transformation to be genuine to both yourself and those who know the ‘old’ you. As I mentioned in the last installment, the likelihood of your wife accepting your new persona is dependent on what Frame you entered that relationship with as well as what you’ve surrendered of your self-respect to her.

    This is the most difficult part for Blue Pill men wanting to reconstruct themselves. Their mental point of origin doesn’t change, they want to change because they want to be “more Alpha” for their wives, not themselves. The idea is to adopt just enough Alpha that their wives turn the sex spigot back on for them, but never really internalize the Red Pill to the point that is fundamentally changes who they are. Thus, it becomes an act not unlike newbie PUAs aping the behaviors of their mentors, but never internalizing the deeper meanings of why they work or making them part of ‘who’ they are as a person.

    This is what kills a man’s reconstruction before it ever starts. That change must be a self-first proposition. Your Red Pill self-work must be intrinsically rewarding because there is absolutely no guarantee that a man’s wife / girlfriend will ever reimagine him from a different perspective. Particularly if that woman entered into that marriage/LTR because she’d hoped to maintain Frame indefinitely due to him abdicating to it.

    You must become Red Pill aware for the sake of knowing the larger truth, internalize it and then apply it without the pretense of believing it can be used to achieve Blue Pill ideals.

  32. Thanks again for all the advice, soaking it all in right now.

    I’m feeling like one of the only things I could do at this point is just tell her point blank that I do want to fuck other girls, and I think about fucking other girls all the time, and just letting the relationship blow up. If that’s enough to ruin the relationship then it was pre-destined to go to shit anyway and better to let it end now than later.

    The other part of me says I should just practice being covert, distance myself from her but not feel the need to go nuclear on the whole thing. And by doing so give myself space and time to think without opening myself up to the emotional instability I might realistically face by just suddenly ending my relationship, which unfortunately, for better or worse, has been nearly my sole source of support in my life since it started.

    And start working on my approach anxiety, first realizing that I can INTERACT with other girls without instantly igniting and burning to death, and then the progression to sex will be more natural. But I don’t even want to think about that right now. Walk before I can run. I need to be able to make SMALL TALK or ANYTHING with girls and other human beings in general before sex will become an option.

    I’m at a point where I don’t even INTERACT with any girls other than my girlfriend, in ANY way, shape or form. And a part of that is from crippling social anxiety. Even if I commit to something as simple as making small talk with 1 stranger when I’m out shopping, it could help.

    Like I’m literally starting to have a panic attack right now thinking about going up to some 50 or 60 year old guy at a supermarket and trying to start a small talk conversation, or even just asking for the time. Even at restaurants I will just wander around aimlessly while I look for the bathroom because I don’t want to deal with the anxiety of asking one of the people that works there where it is.

    So clearly my “approach anxiety” is not restricted to women and is a much more generalized thing. And this is the unfortunate toxic part of the relationship I’m in: it’s co-dependent. It’s a safe-haven from me having to face glaring issues that are preventing me from living my life the way I really want to.

    I also don’t want to confuse “settling” with what I actually want. When you have extreme anxiety, it’s easy to rationalize to yourself that you don’t really WANT the things that make you anxious.

    I was at the supermarket the other day and a girl was pinging off IOI’s like crazy. She was “subtly” following me around after she bumped into me with her cart and apologized and smiled at me. Literally everywhere I walked, even to the complete opposite side of the store, she would be subtly trailing behind me. This went on for like 10 minutes before I decided to go to the checkout line.

    She looked like she was pretending to look at something and then without even putting anything in her cart got into line behind me almost right after she saw me at the line.

    She was really hot, the exact type of girl I’d want to fuck, and I didn’t do shit. The line was even backed up and she was standing right behind me for a good 5 minutes. She dropped something and bent over to pick it up and I looked over and just thought “holy shit.”

    And then I had a panic attack and just looked straight ahead and completely ignored her. And after being really awkward with the cashier I just walked to my car as fast as I could so I could go home and come down from the anxiety.

    And then I wished I could clone myself so I could punch myself in the face.

    “Until the pain of not acting is greater than that of acting or the reward of not acting is less than the reward for acting you will still be fluffing around here next year with the same emotionally laden crisis du jour.”


  33. Softek, in situations (not just M/F) where I find myself full of anxiety about which course of action, there’s a couple of things I do to help.

    1: try to think of the worst possible REASONABLE scenario that could happen if things went wrong in the context/situation;
    – for example, the worst the girl at the supermarket might do is laugh out loud or somehow publicly embarrass you; not pleasant, but not that bad in the scheme of things
    – if you find the worst possible thing isn’t really that bad, that already helps me feel better but it really leads to….

    2: get pissed at yourself for being scared of doing something with so little downside but big upsides
    – channel that anger into a big fist and pulverize that fear and then do the very thing that was giving you anxiety; use your anger Darth Softek; if calibrated, the anger also seems to give me an edge that I’m hoping is interpreted by others as strength/alpha

    You have to catch yourself in the moment and act right then. And it almost seems like you have to setup up a “BP me vs. RP me” situation in your head. Every win for RP I let him run a victory lap and be very unsportsmanlike to my BP self. Don’t focus on your failures, but sure as hell glorify the wins.

    I’ve not been able to knock out my BP self with just one punch. He’s a tough fucker and doesn’t want to die, the little fucking cockroach. But he is fading and will perish soon enough.

  34. @kfg – I came across the quote while perusing some motorcycle adventuring site. Looked him up and seem like an interesting fellow. Only did acting ’cause it paid for his sailing and adventurous lifestyle.

  35. @ scribblerg

    We should Skype again sometime soon, it’s been a while. I’ve been in hermit mode and all.

    And now for Comedy Hour. Sorry but I couldn’t resist:

    “Why make the suffering last, why not just put a gun to your head and pull the fucking trigger now?”

    1) I’m too Beta to get a pistol permit.

    2) I’ve never fired any type of gun in my life. Except a supersoaker. I assaulted a girl with a CPS1500 once. I felt bad because it waterlogged her ear. That was the end of my career with firearms.

    3) I’m afraid I would fuck up and either become paralyzed or retarded, or both. It reminds me of a story I heard about some lady that jumped off the Golden Gate bridge. She ended up not dying, and then was confined to a wheelchair after sustaining permanent damage.

    She jumped off a second time. That time she was successful. I told my friend about this after we were talking about his friend who hanged himself in prison and he said, “Now that’s dedication.”

    There was also that video they had us watch when I was locked up in the mental hospital when I was 15. It was a guy who shot himself and fucked up and just became retarded.

    It was supposed to be really sad and tragic. But because he sounded like people do when they slur their words to make fun of retarded people, everybody just laughed when the video came on. And then we all got yelled at. The ironic part is everybody watching the video had attempted suicide. So it shouldn’t have been funny but that’s how it goes I guess.

    If I ever do it I’m going all the way. Naked with my feet in two buckets of salt water, and I’ll grab live wires from the electrical panel in the house. After I swallow a bottle of vodka and xanax, and have successfully slashed both of my wrists, and tied a plastic bag around my head. I’ll throw a toaster into one of the buckets and have exhaust fumes from a car filling the room for not only extra measures, but posterity.

    I’ll also rig up a door so when my dead body collapses it will pull a string that will trigger a shotgun to go off on my torso, and then a guillotine only a fraction of a second later to decapitate me.

    I’ll do it in a Furry Costume too. Then people won’t know I did it because I couldn’t kill the Beta but they’ll think it was because the REAL reason was I couldn’t live with the shame of having to dress up as a woodland creature from Bambi in order to get an erection.

    I am just joking of course. I am not actively suicidal. Although it would be nice to apply this plan figuratively to my inner Beta.

    I’m only running on a couple hours of sleep, so thanks again everyone for the advice, I’m gonna let it soak in while I go either back to bed or get to working on this fucking nightmare project for a customer to get some extra cash in my pocket.

    Thanks again for all the advice, I hope I can return the favor by demonstrating that I took it. On the plus side I have at least been playing music out a little bit, which opens the door a little bit. My friend did point out that I need to be more animated when I play as I tend to clam up and not look at the audience. And even if you’re really good if you don’t look like you’re having fun it isn’t really worth much. But it can be a huge DHV and an opener/ice breaker in and of itself.

  36. @softek
    I was at the supermarket the other day and a girl was pinging off IOI’s like crazy. She was “subtly” following me around after she bumped into me with her cart and apologized and smiled at me. Literally everywhere I walked, even to the complete opposite side of the store, she would be subtly trailing behind me. This went on for like 10 minutes before I decided to go to the checkout line.

    Dude, you’re not the only one. I did this for 28 years in my ltr. Never detected any ioi from any woman in all that time. Was it me closing my eys to it? Maybe so.
    But you can change!. I’ll still fuck it up like that these days when I’m not thinking of the mantra Approach All The Time. But lots of time I’ll detect the ioi and work it.

    It just sound like you need a program of confidence building and incremental accomplishments. There’s tons of resources for that – how to build up your social life. But it sounds like the main sticking point here is the attachment to the current gf. There’s nothing wrong being alone for a while and/or hitting online dating and all that nonsense getting your foundation built up. There’s nothing wrong with doing it on the side too without explicitly telling her your intentions. She’ll pick up eventually.

  37. @Dr. Zipper: “Only did acting ’cause it paid for his sailing and adventurous lifestyle.”

    And hated it. He tried to quit a number of times, but that just resulted in offers of more money he couldn’t refuse.

    The book is a fairly comprehensive autobiography as background to his last great (and rather notorious) sailing adventure, but what it’s about is how he was alpha on the outside, but with an inner beta that was trying to kill him. The whole thing is TRM relevant, Hollywood divorce rape with kids as a weapon and all, which is what led to the titular sailing adventure.

    And for those might be interested, the movie White Squall is a fictionalized account of the last voyage of Wanderer, after Hayden sold it on.

  38. @Softek

    I was at the supermarket the other day and a girl was pinging off IOI’s like crazy. She was “subtly” following me around after she bumped into me with her cart and apologized and smiled at me. Literally everywhere I walked, even to the complete opposite side of the store, she would be subtly trailing behind me.

    You saw all these IOIs with your conscious mind, but wasn’t your emotional mind telling you that that girl was too hot for you? It’s the same old Pussy Pedalization Pattern. (Sorry about the stinky joke. I have an alliterative disodor.)

    Being afraid of purveying anti-game (being a social fuckup) is just another buffer. Ask a girl a friendly, open-ended question about themselves. Find out what motivates them. It might be a musical genre or a singer or an actor or a hobby or dogs or….You might share something about yourself first to get them to open up, especially if a girl is showing obvious IOIs.

    You need to exercise and compete on team sports. Join a house team if you don’t have friends to play with. You don’t have to dominate the group or be all alpha…just be friendly with other guys. You really are quite likeable.

    Spend some time each day going over your social strengths…you have some, like being likeable. So you’re a little shy. Big deal, so was I. You’ll probably be like me…I was always liked more than I thought I was. Same is likely true with you.

    Get out and be at least a little social. Take your girl along and set the expectation that you all will meet and talk with other people. Or just stay home, but do you really want to go thru life without having lived it?

  39. @Softek

    If your approach anxiety is met with a physical response; heart palpitations, sweating and constricted breathing. Then you need to change your diet. I know I must seem like a broken record on this subject, but your diet controls, nearly all of your physiological functions.
    Change that and you’ll change your physical symptoms.

    If you have the will power.

    Document everything you eat on a daily basis. Anything that has caffeine, sugar and salt needs to be removed from your diet.
    If you don’t have a blender, get one. Make a kale smoothie. This simply consists of kale and a variety of other fruits. For instance kale, honeydew melons, beetroot, strawberries, avocados, tomatoes and cucumber.
    Add some soya or coconut milk with a quarter litre of water and you’re done.

    The psychological part of your problem is down to confidence. This can be overcome by simply singing out loud. At first you’ll feel self conscious and a bit silly, but that’ll pass and soon you’ll begin to enjoy the experience. The idea is to isolate the sound of your voice so you can hear yourself. It’s unlike a conversation where both parties are competing to have their say and feigning disinterest when they aren’t. Doubt and fear creep into our thoughts on these occasions and make it harder for us to initiate in future.

    By singing to yourself your confidence will improve and approaching people won’t seem so daunting.

    Rollo commented on this in his mental point of origin essay, but a visual of the psychological phenomena can be seen in the character Walt Longmire (played by Robert Taylor).
    Walt has a knack of, always, appearing to be somewhere else. He gives the impression his attention is permanently engaged and the person conversing with him is not his top priority.

    Women are drawn to this sub communication, because they have to fight to get your attention. When she (to her mind) should have it already.

  40. Dr. Zipper

    Re: Sterling Hayden.

    Great stuff. It’s comforting to read RP works as intended in other’s lives.

    Placing trust in the inexorable RP physics, acting RP, requires tolerating uncertainty. RP functions when consistently applied, it requires men to wholly retool their expectations of personal, financial security. Tough stuff.

    Living RP sexually will reveal personal weaknesses elsewhere. The mental strain, living in both RP/BP realms…torture.

    Finishing Greene’s 48 Laws of Power.

    Aphorisms often have an ostensible opposite. “Bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.” and it’s opposite “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”

    The Laws of Power conflict too, superficially. It took a few chapters to get beyond an absolute nature of the Laws.

    Applying RP, Laws of Power, PUA is about, IMO, selection, timing, and intensity, not binary algorithmic life choices. All laws apply always. How I subtly adjust my application of the countervailing forces, in any given experience, will determine the outcome.

    Maladjusted personality sliders confuse women, right? Application of the Laws of Power, likewise.

  41. In regards to the OP, this hit home. It’s one thing to read about it, and another to finally experience having a girlfriend and the extreme amount of toxic bullshit that will fuck with you if you’re not prepared.

    The shaming over emotions or a lack of emotions is all there. Me simply asserting myself is ALWAYS interpreted as aggressive or violent or being abusive in some way. Like when she told me, “You need to learn how to communicate.” And I said “No I don’t.”

    Somehow that turns into “Why do you think it’s okay to treat me like shit? I don’t deserve this.”

    Implying that my disagreeing with her = abuse. Not going along with the feminine imperative = abuse. Not reshaping and re-forming myself to accommodate any and all of her needs = I’m a bad person, I have no empathy, etc.

    And that just gets hammered home even more if I yell or swear. Keeping in mind I’m not saying “fuck you bitch” or “you’re a fucking cunt”….

    …I’m usually saying things like “I don’t fucking know” or “This is fucking bullshit.” But of course she takes it as me swearing AT her and then always brings up, “Why do you have to get so angry? I’m not angry. I’m not yelling. I’m just trying to talk to you and you’re getting violent and aggressive.”

    I call her out on her bullshit every time but it doesn’t change her perception at all. It’s literally like I’m not allowed to have my own opinion or emotions, and then, right in line with women’s hamstering, she projects that onto herself, and accuses ME of censoring HER.

    The whole time all I ever did was stand my ground and call her out on her shit, and then she turns into it this beauty:

    Her: “I’m not allowed to have any emotions around you. I can’t feel anything because you’ll get angry at me. I have to suppress all of my emotions all the time and it’s killing me.”

    In reality, her “emotions” and the “expression” of them are usually about her insecurities, and subsequent stupid demands she wants to make of me. Which are NOT EMOTIONS.

    She’s actually trying to suppress MY emotions, because I — reasonably and understandably — get ANGRY when she tries to impose rules and regulations on me that she has no right to. The covert contract being, “I’ve been having a sexual relationship with you, so now you owe me X, Y, and Z to allay my insecurities and make me feel better about these things.”

    And sometimes I will say things like “You’re full of shit, this is completely retarded, I don’t want to talk about this anymore.”

    But that just becomes more evidence of me being the bad guy, with “communication issues.” And then I’m again accused of suppressing and oppressing her because any time she “brings up her feelings” I get “angry.”

    Yes, I get angry when she asks me if I’ve been going on porn, or looking at other women, because in my mind, she might as well be saying “I want to control everything you do, and you owe me an explanation for what you want and what you don’t want, and if you don’t give it to me, I’m going to throw a fit.”

    This is still new to me, as far as looking at my relationship in a Red Pill lens. Which is part of why I just go quiet a lot of times when she tries to ask me questions. I get so confused and out of touch with my own emotions I genuinely don’t even know how to assert myself anymore, because there’s nothing left of me at that point.

    The worst and most Beta thing I’ve done is lie. And lie a lot. Lying about going on porn, lying about not wanting to fuck other girls, etc., just to get her to shut up about it. That is the road to Beta-dom that I need to avoid at all costs and I’m already disappointed in myself for giving in to that already.

    I just had no idea what capacity women had for wearing a man down. Day in and day out to the point where it just felt easier to lie about things just to get her to fucking shut up and stop bothering me. And then of course it gets to the point where I’m so worn down I don’t even know what I want anymore, and my sex drive is driven so far into the ground I don’t even feel like fucking other women anyway, so I don’t even feel like I’m lying anymore when I tell her I’m not interested in fucking other women.

    And that is the product of State Control if you give in to it. You either reject it, and own yourself, or you compromise, which includes lying.

    I had no idea before I got into this that the Beta-ization of men was such a violent process. THAT actually qualifies as emotional abuse and manipulation, far more than a man getting angry and expressing his anger.

    If anything, I would bet that much of the anger men exhibit in relationships is a natural and healthy defense against attempts at Beta-ization by the women. Unfortunately anger in itself is not enough, and possibly to my detriment I respond with anger far more than amused mastery.

    My natural instinct is to say “shut the fuck up and leave me the fuck alone, I’m fucking sick of you and your bullshit”…..not to just brush things off like they don’t affect me.

    Still, even if I have a lot to learn about relationship management, the point stands:

  42. Softek, said it before but worth saying again, please read “When I Say No I Feel Guilty” to unravel her manipulation techniques.

    In one of my few RP moments during courtship with my ex, she saw some chick giving me strong IOIs and me flick back a small reciprocation, then nothing more. Slightly uncool, I’ll admit, and I apologized. But it gave her a big hammer to bash me with for many weeks, way beyond scale of the incident itself. Then in one of the arguments we had — and I swear the shit you quoted above is almost word for word the same type of shit I had here — I had my fill and said quite sternly with that low voice that hints at the boiling under the surface, something like “I tired of fucking hearing about that. I apologized so get over it. Don’t ever bring it up again.”

    And she never did. Wish I’d have learned more from that interaction.

    Another rejoinder I found that works is along the lines of “You don’t sound happy to be with me. If yo’re not happy with me, no problem, I’m not changing either way. You owe it to yourself to find someone you’re happy with.” Then leave it at that, not butthurt, just matter of fact.

    Maybe it was Scribs who earlier said:

    Go fuck another girl.

    Go fuck another girl.

    Cosign that.

  43. @Softeck

    Man I just have to say,it sounds as if you are the most valuable one in the hookup.She knows this and is afraid you will find out,she will work every con in the book on you to keep you locked in place.

    One thing to keep in mind is they will all play you unless you don’t give them the chance.
    She is taking advantage of every bit she knows about you all the time,everything she says and does is an act,pure bullshit all with intent to control.

    How does it feel to be played sucker?

  44. If I was him, AR, I’d use her for practice, then move on. Didn’t Rollo say something about not digging in the trash?

  45. @ dr zipper

    You’re right, I’m not the only one. It does help me to remember not to blow my anxiety out of proportion, and create an identity with it. It’ll only get worse.

    When I remember that EVERY guy, more or less, deals with approach anxiety, and it’s usually SEVERE anxiety….it makes it seem a lot less daunting. Thanks for pointing that out.

    @ ollie

    I’m so out of shape it’s horrendous. Part of my anxiety with women is physically I feel almost incapable of fucking. I get winded so easily now it’s embarrassing. I’ve had sex so many times with my girlfriend I don’t give a shit anymore but when I’m pumping away for less than 1 minute and I have to stop to catch my breath and start feeling dizzy, and I’m not even 30 years old yet….yeah. That’s not good.

    It sucks to admit but part of my anxiety revolving around physical issues is a big warning sign. I used to be a huge nutrition buff and would do well to get back into that. Daily exercise is critical and I’ve been slacking on that.

    @ SJF

    Thanks as always for the invaluable advice. I’m not trying to be a burden here, and I’m really trying my best to understand my relationship as it is. It does sting to realize I’m a Beta, but it’s a needed shock to get me out of my comfort zone thinking I’ve found my personal Unicorn.

    Which obviously sounds insane given my examples of what the relationship is like, but that’s just evidence of how deep the Blue Pill conditioning runs. And my wanting to believe in an equal partnership has been blinding me to the reality of the relationship, which I don’t want to see, because it feels even more uncomfortable than the issues in the relationship itself.

    What you said about covert contracts really hit home too. I never thought of it like that, but my anger was probably trying to tell me that. Why would I get angry at her asking me whether I want to fuck other girls or not, or whether I’m still going on porn or not?

    Because deep down I knew it was SOME kind of manipulation. That SOMETHING was wrong. When you said “covert contract” that clarified it a lot.

    Naturally, my awareness isn’t going to change her being a woman and the hamstering that goes along with it. Problems with women are solved with Game and Red Pill awareness, not logic and reasoning.

    Me getting pissed off at her and trying to yell rationality and logic into her head hasn’t worked very well so far. “Rationality and logic” include me trying to tell her I’m getting angry because she’s being petty and possessive, which doesn’t ultimately mean anything to her at all. Demonstrate, not explicate….

    @ scrib

    …hence the part I’m not getting, i.e. go fuck other girls. Which honestly at this point would be cheating on my girlfriend because she is under the impression that I’m exclusive with her. At some point I did tell her I was just to get her to stop nagging me. That was also a mistake.

    But I appreciate the support and advice as always. The stigma of being a “cheater” is another issue I’m facing, as I don’t have the guilt-free pass to fuck other women, as I felt I did when I told her I wasn’t exclusive with her.

    Maybe “cheating” being a bad thing when you’re not married is just more social conditioning bullshit, but it’s still social conditioning bullshit that feels like it carries some weight for me.

    I’m also very wary now because I don’t trust myself. I still feel like a child with dynamite, and that if I fuck some other girl, I’ll get sucked into her bullshit just like I got sucked into this, except it’ll be even worse, because now I’d be in a situation where I’ve lied to and cheated on my girlfriend.

    As much as I’d like to just go fuck other girls I feel like I have to get this relationship clear first, even if that means just ending it. I am starting to really hate and dislike myself. I was always honest to a fault in my life and I have never lied so much before in my entire life. And it’s really making me not like who I am.

    Not sure if this is all in my head because I have such stigmas about lying, or if being a liar really does make you a piece of shit. I don’t feel great about it, anyway.

    @ Sentient / kfg

    You guys have a way of pushing my Beta button. I get angry at your comments a lot because I don’t like feeling called out on being a Beta. But thanks for that because I do need to hear it. As much as I don’t like it. I also need to improve my behavior with other men, as I tend to be very passive.

    Ironically, it’s even WORSE with my friends. At least in my relationship, I feel comfortable enough with her to tell her to shut the fuck up if I’m angry at her. I have NEVER told any of my friends in my life to shut the fuck up, or expressed anger towards them at all.

    And I don’t think that’s healthy. In a way I feel MOST completely inhibited in friendships because I never get quite comfortable enough to express my full array of emotions…..namely, anger. If I’m really pissed off at a friend I just bite my tongue and don’t say anything.

    At least in my relationship, for whatever reason, I don’t feel that. If she’s pissing me off I will glare at her or verbalize my anger. If I’m angry, she’ll know. And quickly. But with people I’m not as familiar with…..under the rug it goes.

    @ ollie

    I’m gonna have to take up your recommendation to sing.

    Funnily enough I’ve worked a lot on singing. When I’m out playing music I still get too shy to do it. I’ve sang in front of people before at parties, and once I got past the initial couple lines, it wasn’t so bad. But never at an open jam or a bar in front of a microphone. Which holds me back a lot because I know a lot of songs, and how to sing them, but I’m too afraid to do it in front of people. So when people ask me what other songs I know I’ll just shrug and it makes me look like I don’t know a lot of music.

    If I could work up to that, that would be great.

    My girlfriend’s even asked me to sing for her and I won’t do it because I get anxious. If I really thought it was gay and I didn’t want to do it, it wouldn’t bother me. But I like playing and singing and the only thing stopping me is anxiety.

    I have no problem recording myself playing and singing and sharing it online but when it comes to doing it in front of people I choke.

    Thanks again for the advice…going to work on that. Last party I was at I FORCED myself to sing, and it went perfectly fine. But I’ve found even if people really like it, most people won’t say anything. You get the odd one or two people that might come up and say “wow that was really good” but most of the time people are in their own little worlds anyway.

  46. Pretty sure the world would be a better place if Jung spent more time getting punched in the face then running his mouth

  47. Softek, I see alot of myself in you — almost like it’s my younger self typing your stuff out. You know you’re a good person and try to do the right thing but M/F dynamics are a great source of anxiety because of the discord of what you’ve been taught vs the results you are getting.

    Nobody gives a shit about you and your problems, only you do; stop thinking that everyone else is focused upon you. Sounds kinda mean but it’s actually quite liberating and allows you much more leeway in releasing your true personality to the world.

    And a related note, not everything is as complicated as we make out in our heads. Over-thinking is one of my many vices but have learned to temper it with quicker action and decisiveness.

    Accept her for who she is, it’s not anything malicious on her part, she’s just using her own game to get what she wants. It’s cute that way. Ahhh, she’s trying tactic B on me, come here Sweetums. Then blast a load in her.

    If you’re not happy. Detach your emotions, practice some game shit on her, then move on.

    Seriously, my younger self, you’re the fucking prize and your value is constantly increasing. If she can’t operate with those facts, plenty others will.

  48. @ Anonymous

    I’m still with her because I am still Blue Pill. For all the dysfunction, it’s filling a need in me. The Blue Pill part of me feels like we have a special connection and she really cares about me and the time we’ve spent together means a lot and that I’ve really valued being able to connect with someone like this who’s had similar experiences that I have.

    Not to get too woo-woo, but I’m probably playing out the masochism I grew up with. The manipulation and abuse and dysfunction feels like home because that’s what my relationship with my mom and dad was entirely based on. My life growing up was at LEAST as fucked up as the relationship I’m currently in. Feels like home. Mom would fly off the handle at the drop of a hat and be screaming and yelling at me for something as stupid as walking out into the garage without shoes on, I was called the “devil child that made everyone’s life a living hell,” and then there was my dad, who I don’t even need to get into now. It wasn’t good.

    I got molested by a doctor, she got molested by a relative, my dad abused me, her mom abused her, we’ve both made suicide attempts and have a history of self-destructive behavior, buckle up, we’re gonna have a GOOD OLD TIME!

    This really feels like it’s at the root of it: me identifying with my shitty past, and because I haven’t let go of it, I’m basing my emotional fulfillment in the present on it. Instead of moving on and letting all that shit go, it feels like there’s an emotional void in me, and in all its dysfunction, the relationship is filling it.

    *MOVING ON*…..

    The saving grace has been some Red Pill revelations, and a couple experiences I had — including my current girlfriend — about how women want to fuck the Top Dog. And it doesn’t matter what kind of relationship you think you have.

    If Softek isn’t Top Dog over here, she’s going to get wet for and fuck another guy who is. And it doesn’t matter one fucking bit what our relationship has been like or “what we’ve been through.”

    I never fucked these women, but I’ve talked to and turned on more than a couple that were in a committed relationship. And seeing how easy it was to get them to be slutty with me, like yeah, I never fucked them because they were too far away, but having them tell me how horny they were and how they wanted to be fucked…and how their boyfriends were too gentle with them, and passive….that was an eye opener.

    When I imagine her fucking some other guy, and feel the anger that comes up, it’s like….oh. Right. She IS capable of doing this, and if I continue to be Beta, she WILL do this. And you can never guarantee that ANY woman won’t do it, so…..don’t be an idiot.

    You can either be that guy or watch that guy fuck your girlfriend/wife. Intersexual dynamics far transcend child abuse and all that stuff. I don’t care WHAT you went through in your childhood: every man feels the same thinking about his wife/girlfriend fucking some other guy: it’s sickening.

    THAT pulls me into the present. My sexuality RIGHT NOW, and who I am as a man. That’s the saving grace here. And the deeper I get into TRP, the more I can feel the old childhood bullshit fading away.

    It isn’t real anymore. Realizing that my girlfriend could very easily go fuck some other guy who’s more Alpha than me gives me motivation to get my shit together. Similar to the anger that motivated me when I was incel, when I got fed up with being a pussy and degrading myself by sitting on the sidelines and watching other guys turn women on and fuck them while I sat there beating my dick in the corner.

    Quite literally, too, by watching videos of guys fucking women. It’s what porn is, you know. One of my friends told me once that he doesn’t like porn because he doesn’t like seeing other guys have more fun than he’s having, lol. I know that’s not the only kind of porn that exists but the point stands.

    @ dr zipper

    She saw me on live stream on the Internet one night with a hot young drunk girl touching me all over. I wasn’t aware that I was on stream. Or that she was watching.

    I didn’t initiate anything with that girl, but I didn’t do anything about it. And I did like it. Sure enough, not only my girlfriend, but a Beta orbiter friend of hers condemned me and mutually agreed I should’ve “pushed her away” or told her I had a girlfriend and to back off, or something like that.

    In my mind, it’s like….really? Do you think I’m fucking gay? It reminds me of a story my dad told me when I was young, one that he was so proud of. A girl tried fucking him one night. As soon as she came downstairs in shorts and a bra and my dad “put the pieces together” he left immediately, right home to my mom, and told her what happened. He then prided himself on being a “good boy.”

    The weird thing is I never for a second questioned my parents’ marriage and somehow it’s managed to work for over 35 years. Despite shit like that my dad still had ground rules for my mom, including expecting her to drop out of school and not pursue a career so she could stay home and raise me and my sister. He said if she wanted kids so bad then she was going to have to make the sacrifices necessary to do it and told her very clearly she was going to have to be a stay at home mom if that’s what she wanted. Apparently she had no problem complying.


    She brings that one up a lot. I’ve actually laughed when she said “Oh, I’m gonna fucking kill her.” It’s actually a lot more detailed and violent than that but I don’t want to disclose too much here, lol.

    My friend has tons of stories like that, like one girl he dated. They were at a restaurant and on her way back from the bathroom, she saw him talking to the waitress, and the waitress was smiling. She sat back down and just looked at him and said,

    “You know, I could drop her with one punch.”

    And she’s asked me if I liked it or not. Like a little Beta sucker I’ve always denied it, while at the same time, like…..she SAW it all happen, and I never moved away from her. We didn’t make out or anything and she was touching other guys there too, because she was just being a drunk slut. I DID enjoy it, but not in any extreme way. Like yeah, it’s a young hot girl and she’s all over me, of course I’m going to enjoy it. It was just a freak incident and it’s not like I fucked her or made out with her. I didn’t think of it as a big deal.

    In her mind it was a HUGE event, though.

  49. Softek

    If Rollo’s correct then women love opportunistically and men love romantically,what is she saying when she professes her love? where is this coming from? Is she a hell yes girl?

    She is saying your the best I can do right now. She will choose the time to say it.

  50. @Softek

    Me simply asserting myself is ALWAYS interpreted as aggressive or violent or being abusive in some way. Like when she told me, “You need to learn how to communicate.” And I said “No I don’t.”

    What does “You need to learn how to communicate” mean in cat-language?

    Once you figure this out, you’ll laugh at your behavior because it’s so Blue Pill.

  51. The Blue Pill part of me feels

    Again, the feelz…you can do better, man…can’t you make decisions based on something besides your feelings?

  52. ya know, Softek, then you bust out with….

    “She saw me on live stream on the Internet one night with a hot young drunk girl touching me all over. I wasn’t aware that I was on stream. Or that she was watching.”

    I got nothin

  53. @Softek

    This really feels like it’s at the root of it: me identifying with my shitty past, and because I haven’t let go of it, I’m basing my emotional fulfillment in the present on it. Instead of moving on and letting all that shit go, it feels like there’s an emotional void in me

    Translation: I am a drama junkie.

    in all its dysfunction, the relationship is filling it.

    Translation: My gf provides me with my drama fix.

    If you want to live life as a junkie, that’s your decision.

  54. How many times does SJF have to post the stages of female manipulation from Franco’s Practical Female Psychology?

    Testing the Male

    Seeking Communication

    Putting him to Work

    Evolutionary Selfishness


  55. @ dr zipper

    “Nobody gives a shit about you and your problems, only you do; stop thinking that everyone else is focused upon you.”

    This is true. I just think of it in a different way: it isn’t that I’m thinking other people are focused on me; it’s that my focus within myself is on the wrong shit. And if I keep focusing on my problems, the only thing I’m going to have in my life is problems.

    I’m IDENTIFYING with my problems, instead of identifying with who I want to be. The reason I’m harping on the same stuff I was a year ago is because I haven’t broken my identification with that bullshit. It’s because I still see myself the same way. And I’m glad people have called me out on it here even though it stings.

    Memories are just used as evidence to support the identity. Past failures, bad experiences, etc. I feel stupid for bringing memories of abuse up now, but the only reason I did is for one reason: I still IDENTIFY with them. Otherwise they would disappear.

    It hurts, but helps, to realize that Blue Pill idealism is EXTREMELY COMMON, regardless of what you went through as a kid. I’m just using our common experiences (me and her) to justify my Blue Pill pedestalization of our relationship.

    In reality it’s just run of the mill ONE-itis.

    And guess what? Her previous boyfriend had ONE-itis for her too, and then I fucked her.

    Evolution doesn’t give a fuck. Part of TRP that helps me is realizing it has NOTHING to do with “abnormal psychology.” Whatever you went through in your life is COMPLETELY REMOVED from intergender dynamics.

    I’m driving that into my head as hard as I can now: I can’t use my past experiences as an excuse to cling to Blue Pill idealism. Because it doesn’t fucking matter what I or anyone else went through, because intergender dynamics transcend all of that. It’s its own domain.

    And it does feel liberating. It does hurt but when I think about it, it’s like someone telling me I’m free from all this bullshit.

    You mean I DON’T have to cling to my past, and in fact, doing so will HINDER my progress with women and my enjoyment of life? And my personal past has literally NOTHING, not a SINGLE THING to do with intergender dynamics, because intergender dynamics are as old as the human race and we have evolved responses that have nothing to do with our personal life experiences?

    You don’t say.

  56. one more thing, Softie, then I’ll put it down

    you’ve obviously been through a lot, observed a bunch, thought about it a great deal and chosen your desires

    remember about over-thinking and over-complicating? that’s what you’re doing

    the only thing you lack is action and practice

  57. @ dr zipper

    Thanks so much.

    “the only thing you lack is action and practice”

    No more to say about that.

    Thanks again for all the responses from everyone. And I do hope that at least some of what I shared is OP relevant and has contributed to the discussion. For the record usually when I give anecdotes, I’m not doing it to complain but because I feel like it pertains to the OP.

    Like when I read this article about “State Control,” I immediately wanted to share because I felt like a lot of what I’m going through gives some concrete support to the theory. And as I read it a lot of lights went off like “yep, yep, yep….never thought of it like that before.”

    My intention isn’t to be “woe is me” but I get excited when I read the articles here and am able to connect some dots in my experiences. And even though they’re not usually good experiences my hope is always that they can at least help other men connect the dots.

    Being aware is half the battle. It can seem ridiculous until you realize a vast majority of men are experiencing these issues in their relationships. We don’t call it the Matrix for nothing.

  58. stuffin, why you gotta make this so hard? just give us a link to the same gd image you viewed to conclude that

  59. @Softek

    “How many times does SJF have to post the stages of female manipulation from Franco’s Practical Female Psychology?”

    I don’t want to downplay the issues you are dealing with Softek, I know it is a hard road for you; but this is right. Trap. Bait. And you know it.

    When the stories about this same chick keep coming around all I can think of is this:

    Little birdy with a yellow bill

    Perched upon my windowsill

    Lured him in with crumbs of bread

    Then I crushed his itty bitty head

  60. I like this at the end, perfectly sums it all up:

    “for men to reclaim conventional masculinity it will require them to honestly assess why and how they choose to express or control their emotional states based on their own definition of what is correct from a male perspective, not the female perspective.”

    Bam, right on the money.

  61. Softek
    “Me identifying with my shitty past.”

    People who haven’t undergone genuine trauma in their formative years will never have the capacity to empathise with your situation. It’s like explaining wetness to someone who has never seen water.

    Dr Bruce Lipton is an interesting developmental biologist who has a great take on the human mind and retraining your subconscious. Your conscious mind simply cannot override the formative subconscious (created up to the age of seven) through thinking with your conscious mind (try forgetting how to read or speak English, can’t do it).

    But you can retrain your subconscious through behavioural changes (like learning another language), so Scribblerg’s prescriptions are pretty accurate, don’t ruminate simply do. The very act of doing retrains it, thinking does nothing but reinforces, obfuscates, hides or validates old patterns.

  62. @softek
    I don’t think a girl who is offering you anal in exchange for not banging other girls is being sumissive. She is negotiating. A girl who you just do anal with and she is not sure who you banged last night or are banging tomorrow is the one you could say is submitting.

  63. @Softek: you know all this already.

    I want to agree and amplify what @Cheupez wrote – even if the sex seems like desire sex (and maybe it even is), it is part of a negotiation to lock your commitment down so it isn’t necessarily an alpha tell. She used sex to lock down her previous boyfriend, which you note yourself she cheated on… With you. This is standard operating procedure for her, and again, you know it.

    Also note how her Frame is winning over you in this sentence:
    “Which honestly at this point would be cheating on my girlfriend because she is under the impression that I’m exclusive with her. At some point I did tell her I was just to get her to stop nagging me. That was also a mistake.”

    Which I remember months ago was an ongoing Frame battle and, surprise, she got what she wanted as she has you on a vice (the vice is her pussy).

    If you stay with her, she will keep getting what she wants – from you first, and then from the next guy she will cheat on you with. And again, you know it.

    But when she eventually does cheat on you it can destroy you.
    You should get out while you still can, if you still can.

  64. I find the entire UC Berkeley debacle incredibly instructive.

    Imagine the same thing happening here in Texas. How many of them would be alive to get weapons had the other side already been carrying concealed weapons? I dare ANTIFA to show up here looking for a fight. Just once.

  65. @Softek

    “Yes, I get angry when she asks me if I’ve been going on porn, or looking at other women, because in my mind, she might as well be saying “I want to control everything you do, and you owe me an explanation for what you want and what you don’t want, and if you don’t give it to me, I’m going to throw a fit.””

    You’re right she is looking to control you through manipulation.

    Ask yourself why would she persistently asking you whether you’ve been watching porn or fantasizing over other women?
    She doesn’t believe you when you say no. She knows you’re lying, but in getting you to lie she’s attempting to get you to believe the lie. Which (lets make no mistake) is what’s happening.

    The question I would like to ask is does she live with you? Do both of you work and contribute to the bills and general upkeep of the place? How long have you been living together?
    In your opinion, what is her SMV in relation to yours?
    It seems as though your SMV is high and she’s aware of it and has been using sex as a means to keep you in the relationship. But no woman can do this in perpetuity, so she’s looking to progressively lower your interest in sex.
    She can’t control the random women you meet and are attracted to you (the supermarket incident among others), but she can attempt to control you.

    You do have Alpha traits in being aware and fighting her over this.

    Another question is, whether you can see yourself raising a child with her? For all her faults is she someone you could share the next 18 years of your life with?

  66. @Sun Wukong: “Imagine the same thing happening here in Texas.”

    They tried it at Auburn in Alabama. A few of them showed up open carrying ARs.

    However, as it turns out, Auburn does not have a mayor who is an antifa member who ordered the police to stand down and so the whole show was efficiently shut down.

  67. Sun

    As cannot be overstated absolute power corrupts absolutely. antifa is ambiguous in that more than one party would appear to be facist,although at least two were so arrogant to believe they would reign forever.


  68. A Saturday morning poetry reading dedicated to Softek:

    A Psalm of Life

    by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

    Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
    Life is but an empty dream!
    For the soul is dead that slumbers,
    And things are not what they seem.

    Life is real! Life is earnest!
    And the grave is not its goal;
    Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
    Was not spoken of the soul.

    Not enjoyment, and not sorrow,
    Is our destined end or way;
    But to act, that each to-morrow
    Find us farther than to-day.

    Art is long, and Time is fleeting,
    And our hearts, though stout and brave,
    Still, like muffled drums, are beating
    Funeral marches to the grave.

    In the world’s broad field of battle,
    In the bivouac of Life,
    Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
    Be a hero in the strife!

    Trust no Future, howe’er pleasant!
    Let the dead Past bury its dead!
    Act,— act in the living Present!
    Heart within, and God o’erhead!

    Lives of great men all remind us
    We can make our lives sublime,
    And, departing, leave behind us
    Footprints on the sands of time;

    Footprints, that perhaps another,
    Sailing o’er life’s solemn main,
    A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
    Seeing, shall take heart again.

    Let us, then, be up and doing,
    With a heart for any fate;
    Still achieving, still pursuing,
    Learn to labor and to wait.

  69. SJF has got his message down to Softie because he has had a lot of practice working with me in real life. It was almost dejvu reading those comments. Denial and anger are a bitch, but being a beta bitch is much worse.

    Motivation + work=success

    Reading the instruction manual does not mean one knows how to handle dynamite. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve fucked up. I can write that my successes and conscious competence gets better with more consistent natural game.

    I was busy all week traveling for work and enjoying the fruits of game and finally just caught up with all the comments. Lots of good stuff mixed with some eye rolling. Poor Peter was pickled.

    Softek…..dude…..Go read what Scribbler wrote about getting laid. Denial about being beta is just a phase…if you want to get over it. If not then it’s YOUR LIFE. I realized that using childhood abuse as an excuse was just a buffer. It was a giant buffer and crutch for me. Do you want to live life with all theses buffers? Quit handing over your nuts to her, they belong to you, right?

    New neighbors moved in recently. A lesbian couple, fun people to have in the hood. The other day one of them had on a t-shirt that said: “Suck it up,Buttercup.”

  70. For Sgt. Ton:

    John Donne’s “Death Be Not Proud”

    Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
    Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
    For those whom thou think’st thou dost overthrow
    Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
    From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be,
    Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow,
    And soonest our best men with thee do go,
    Rest of their bones, and soul’s delivery.
    Thou art slave to fate, chance, kings, and desperate men,
    And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell,
    And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
    And better than thy stroke; why swell’st thou then?
    One short sleep past, we wake eternally
    And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.

  71. The left is odd in thousands of ways. In this case, very clever and utterly stupid

    Way back when I lived in Hawaii the left was going to have resistance festival to morn the birth of amerika at this small but beautiful park in down town Honolulu. The park was surrounded by metered/ paid parking so the counter protesters set up a schedule and rotated cars through all the parking spaces, complete with people standing around to pay the parking metere, , starting 24 hours before the resistance festival was due to begin setting up. The cops wouldn’t let the leftist double park, so they couldn’t set up etc.

    Or course the left threw a hissy fit, that’s what bitches do but they are easily defeated at there on game

    The supposed non leftist just suck at the game

  72. Ton

    “The supposed non leftist just suck at the game”

    The smartest thing they did was,understand that The “antifa” are one way when it comes to freedom of speech and wear protection,helmets ect..

    Hard to tell who the facists are? New World Order ring any bells?

    At least Trump hasn’t told us “Big Brother is N,I,C,E,”

  73. Extremism in either direction, ‘ right or left ‘, is highly retarded imo. Something is wrong in this country when people are so bored and spoiled that they have to go to extremes with damn near everything.

    I personally don’t know one single person that has the time to go out rallying and protesting as a semi profession. I do know people that are into getting people to 1) understand the issues/system 2) why and how it needs to be changed. 3) How to effectively get the change. 4) how to remove from office, representatives that are hindering the necessary change.

    People mourn the fall of the country, but we’ve been a soft slide towards fascism for a few decades under BOTH political parties. Neither of them actually work. Fuck what anyone wrote in 1942… lol.

    I had a good friend ( lol, or at least I considered him a good friend ) who was an avowed WN, and in the millions of hours of conversations we’d had, I never heard some of the stupid shit that the Alt-Right websites spew out constantly, come from his mouth. He didn’t have to lie and embellish anything. People are flocking towards the dumb-side with regularity.

    So it’s only natural that another type of extreme bullshit would rise up to counter the other type of extreme bullshit. That’s how it works.

    I care as much about antifa as I do about any Alt Right group. Different sides of the same coin.

    Historically, when things start going off the rails in most countries, bad shit happens because the crazies come out in droves, and sometimes seize power.

    Then shit resolves itself ( re: destruction for all ).

    …. oddly, no one ever takes the blame then.

  74. @Softek

    Get your testosterone checked. Even if you do not have issues in the gym or the bedroom, it is possible to have anxiety, neuroticism and depression caused by low T. Of course there are many other potential causes of social anxiety. But if it is from low testosterone, then treating that will be life changing for you.

    Not that having high testosterone gives me instant Game, but it does make things a lot easier.

    Your story of the girl in the supermarket is really representative of typical “girl game.” The whole point of girl game is that it is almost impossible to distinguish from normal behavior by a friendly woman who has no interest in you. Feminists like to say that it is patriarchal for a man to assume a woman is interested, just because she is being friendly. What this ignores is that women’s signals really are identical to normal friendly behavior. So men’s only option is to assume attraction, or just have no social life at all.

    A lot of time could be saved, if women were even half as overt as men are. Of course, that would partly defeat their purpose, which is to screen for the guys who have the confidence to initiate with them. In that sense, feminism’s irrational standards just represent another way to screen out the real men. But it is strange to imagine that there are feminists who judge men for assuming attraction, while themselves pursuing a sexual strategy that depends on men doing just that.

  75. Both of these books,were on the coffee table when i was a young man,and both were prophetic to these times.

    “The main human antagonists of That Hideous Strength believe in scientific materialism, that is, that nothing exists apart from physical matter and energy. They also believe, somewhat like the early Gnostics, that the human body is frail and corrupted. Like modern transhumanists, they believe that humanity can be perfected by migrating out of its body of flesh and blood and into a machine. Lewis portrays the consequences of these ideas in a highly dystopian manner. Lewis’ attack is not on science as such, or scientific planning, but rather the kind of planned society which first Adolf Hitler and then European Marxists had instituted: “the disciplined cruelty of some ideological oligarchy.”[6]

    Some two years before writing Nineteen Eighty-Four, George Orwell reviewed That Hideous Strength for the Manchester Evening News commenting: “Plenty of people in our age do entertain the monstrous dreams of power that Mr. Lewis attributes to his characters [the N.I.C.E. scientists], and we are within sight of the time when such dreams will be realizable”.[8] The review was written shortly after the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which it refers to”.

  76. People are dumb so they flock to the dumb shit. They are also mostly cowards so they flock to easy stuff. Combine the two and you have TV viewers 😉

  77. @ ollie

    Not living with her.

    My SMV is higher by my estimation.

    I’ve told her flat out that marriage and kids will never be an option for me. And that if she wants that she needs to find someone else because I’m not the guy for her. I’ve explicitly said more than a few times “This relationship is obviously not working. If you want to get married and have kids you need to find someone else who does too.” I assume she’s taking that as a challenge more than anything else at the moment.

    @ SJF

    I’m trying to figure out how to enjoy building mastery vs. having mastery. Whether it’s with business or women.

    I’ve found that I only *really* enjoy jobs that I can do easily as a result of having mastered them. But the necessary grind to build up the skills feels soul-crushing and draining. I want to change that.

    This is one story that stuck with me that just popped into my head, that pertains to mastery. It’s from a book about Lieh-Tzu:


    A student was learning archery and finally managed to hit the target. He went to his teacher and said, “Do you have any suggestion as to how I can improve?”

    His teacher replied, “Do you know why you could hit the target that time?”

    “I don’t know.”

    “That’s not good enough. Go back and practice some more.”

    After three years the student visited his teacher again.

    His teacher said, “Now do you know why you are able to hit the target?”

    “I do.”

    “That’s good. Remember what you’ve learned and don’t let your practice go to waste. The principles of learning archery apply to everything else. If you don’t understand what you are doing, you will not be able to perform reliably. Therefore, in learning anything, whether it is governing the country or managing your life, you must understand the principles.”

  78. @ Ton

    Lol. You sound just like my Dad. He said that constantly. Hell, he’s still saying it.

Speak your mind

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