Mate Guarding

Ah, another week, another fantastic article from the Chateau. I found this particular post interesting because the study (once again by our friend Dr. Martie Haselton) he breaks down here confirms virtually everything I was developing in Your Friend Menstruation. It pretty much sums up in no uncertain terms what I was detailing about how women in their folicular (proliferative) phase of menstruation become more sexually aroused by men exhibiting Alpha physical traits and behavioral cues.

However, Heartiste and this study go one step deeper than just the observable arousal from Alpha cues. It also demonstrates women’s observable aversion (disgust) to beta cues in men during the same menstrual fertility phase.

At their most fertile period, these women are less likely to feel close to their mates and more likely to find fault with them than women mated to more sexually desirable men, the research shows.

“A woman evaluates her relationship differently at different times in her cycle, and her evaluation seems to be colored by how sexually attractive she perceives her partner to be,” said Martie Haselton, a professor of psychology and communication studies at UCLA and senior author of the study.

Through a series of high-profile studies, Haselton’s lab has revealed telling changes that take place in women’s behavior during ovulation. Possibly to increase the odds of attracting suitable mating partners, these behaviors include a tendency to dress up and to speak in a higher-pitched, more feminine voice and — in a potential inbreeding-avoidance mechanism — to refrain from contact with male kin. In addition, the lab has found that women whose mates are less sexy and masculine tend to be more attracted to other men during the few fertile days leading up to ovulation.

The researchers found that women mated to the less sexually attractive men were significantly more likely to find fault with their partners and, again, feel less close to their partners during the high-fertility period than the low-fertility period. Women who rated their mates as more sexually attractive, meanwhile, did not exhibit these changes and instead reported being more satisfied with their relationship at high fertility than at low fertility. [emphasis mine]

Most of this I elaborated on in Your Friend Menstruation, however Heartiste then gave me some food for thought here right after this research finding:

When a man’s woman is being bitchy, the problem is him, but not in the way most men would think. Most men will promptly resort to DEFCUNT Level 1 Beta Supplication Mode to appease their harridans, thinking, wrongly, that their women are bitchy because they haven’t gotten enough signs of commitment and support from their partners. And who could blame these men for thinking this? When nagging, inconsolable women lob heat-of-the-moment accusations at their men, the accusations usually take the form of scattershot wails about one-size-fits-all conventional relationship issues that come straight from therapists’ hackneyed textbooks.

“You don’t care about me.” “You never listen.” “You don’t support this marriage like I do.” “You forgot to go food shopping AGAIN. How many times do I have to remind you?!”

So these beta men, quite reasonably, care harder, listen longer, support stronger, and buy enough groceries to fill a fat housewife’s appetizer plate. He reasons, “This is what she claims she wants, so this is what I’ll give her. And that should make her be nice to me like she was last week.”

In the meantime, the alpha male is now on his fifth year of forgetting to go food shopping, and his lover hasn’t bitched once about it

The subconscious default Beta behaviors Heartiste is alluding to here are exactly what I’d classify as Mate Guarding behavior. Appeasement, supplication, sensitivity, etc. are all the classic default behaviors Beta men will resort to in order to solve the “problem” of their mate’s apparent dissatisfaction with him. You see, the man with a Beta mindset earnestly believes that Beta Game is his best strength in attraction with women. So when something is wrong with his precious little snowflake he automatically defaults to upping the Beta.

The more Beta the man the more his proclivity to Mate Guard will be.

I realize this is a very bold statement, but judging from the principles of sexual selection and how women’s biology has evolved to better effect her innate, sexually pluralistic hypergamy, only less sexually arousing Beta men would have needed to psychologically evolve mate guarding mental schemas to protect their parental investments with biologically hypergamous women.

Furthermore, the more organically Alpha men would be rewarded not only with relational fidelity (for fear of losing the hypergamic optimization he represents to a woman), but also sexually due to women’s natural arousal by them during her fertility phase. You could also make the case that predominantly Alpha men would be less prone to mate guarding since their sexual selection and mating frequency would be greater than predominantly Beta men, but this is also further compounded by women’s biological arousal and sexual rewarding of Alphas as dictated by her menstrual cycle.

End result? Alpha men would have been less environmentally motivated to evolve mate guarding strategies that Beta men evolved as a contingency to women’s sexual pluralism (i.e. cuckoldry)

Beta Contingencies

In Mrs. Hyde I quoted yet another study by Dr. Martie Haselton from Why is muscularity sexy? (Aunt Giggles wept):

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

Using strategic pluralism theory as a guide, we can see how mate guarding behavior in predominantly Beta men would have evolved out of necessity. While women (in the past) may have to face trade-offs in weighing genetics versus provisioning, vows of fidelity do little to quell her arousal for Alpha seed when she’s in the proliferate phase of her cycle. In fact I’d argue that the advent of monogamy and monogamous marriage itself is a mate guarding strategy evolved by the meta-interests of Beta men (the most numerous men).

Just to end this on a positive note, I think it’s important to remember that through Game, self-betterment physically & educationally and red pill awareness men aren’t doomed to the absolutes strategic pluralism outlines. In fact this theory, I think accurately, only defines the contingencies and logical outcomes of the SMP – it’s not outlining determinism, it’s illustrating probablism . It doesn’t mean a man can’t transform himself into a contextual Alpha.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

66 comments on “Mate Guarding

  1. Leaving aside the obvious yet unstated assumption of a woman’s lack of moral agency (and the ongoing argument over whether such a thing exists),

    There seems to be little functional difference between assuming alpha status behaviors (whether valid yet or not), a total lack of interest in the relationship, and cuckold fetishism. Let’s assume someone is rebuilding themselves into a proper man but has not achieved alpha yet, and is in an LTR he wishes to continue for whatever valid reason. His woman, used to betatude and entering follicular phase, begins to behave in the predictably bad fashion. What should his reaction be?

  2. Another thought:

    When I was in my beta days with a woman…I was deathly afraid if she would become sad or angry (for whatever reason). Her happiness was the source of my happiness. So I would do whatever possible to not allow the emotion of anger or sadness to come about. This led to predictable results.

    Fast forward to today…my happiness comes from within. I’m not afraid of whatever emotion a woman throws at me because for the most part she doesn’t have a clue why she feels a certain way either. A woman crying to me doesn’t trigger the “I need to make her stop crying” alarm in my head. A woman angry actually now triggers a “she might be getting turned on” or “shit test” alarm in my head. I have the confidence to welcome those emotions because I will handle them correctly now.

  3. I think there’s a large difference in mate guarding behaviors between Alpha and Beta. This is drawn from first hand experience, both of my own behaviors pre/post red pill, from those I see of friends in relationships, or from strangers while hitting bars/clubs sarging. So treat it as anecdotal evidence.

    Beta mate guarding seems to largely focus on him guarding her from his lowered value. Betas rarely seem to ever guard from other men. Rather, most of their time is spent trying to drywall over what he see’s as his faults of character. On the rare occasions they do face an external threat and mate guard, it’s usually passive aggressive. They tend to place their trust in the relationship equity they’ve built. In the drywall house/cage they made of themselves for their woman to hold her in.

    They forget how easy drywall is to both see the seems of and break through.

    Alpha mate guarding could care less about his faults. Depending on the type of alpha, he may think he doesn’t have faults, knows his faults and betters/ignores them, maybe he works on improving them, or simply always plays to his strengths. Whatever. Mainly though, an alpha doesn’t give a damn about what the woman thinks of his faults. Any mate guarding he does is from external threats of actual men poaching his woman, and only if he deems her worth his efforts through judging her own worth or if she’s the mother of his kids.

    Instead, with an alpha, she’s the one mate guarding in the manner the beta usually does. She’s the one trying to build a drywall cage of covering up her faults. Though if she’s quality, she might actually be working on improving the foundation of her own worth and quality.

  4. I understand the urge to mate guard but have never indulged. I’ve seen some pretty alpha dudes do it – but a lot of the guys who do it are like nervous pitbulls, they’re alpha in the physical sense, and they strut pretty good, but they’re very nervous and insecure if you poke them a little.

    If my wife was in serious danger from a guy or getting pawed, I’d fling myself at him like a rabid dog and kick his ass on the spot, or die trying. But just getting hit on? Nah. Some dude was hitting on my wife pretty strong in a bar we were at, and I wandered off and talked to this tall, interesting looking athletic blonde who was hanging with some of our friends. My wife was pissed when we left and asked why I hadn’t done something about the guy who was bugging her and I said, “you’re a big girl, you can handle yourself. That’s why I like you. Besides, I figured you probably enjoyed the attention.” She just got more pissed. I can’t figure out if I was being Alpha or if I was missing the point. She’s a pretty straightforward girl so I don’t think she was playing “Let’s you and him fight.” I’d be interested to hear others’ take on this.

  5. @Joe Blow…sounds like a shit test to see if you were insecure about her being with other guys. You passed in my book with that great reframe.

  6. Attractive man with high level of testosterone and sharp, animal drive is made certain way in order to enable him to impregnate many women without remorse. He is able to fuck many chicks without bonding with them at the emotional level. Your alpha is fucking prom queens with broad smile and WITHOUT remorse.

    Our average Joe can imitate him but will never genuinely feel like him. He is simply not made that way. Therefore he is usually taken, domesticated and castrated by the very first woman.He is susceptible to relationships with BPD women, emotional abuse form chicks. He usually marries till 30, etc. If he ever start this “alpha” journey, there is a hint of bitternes, lost “soul”, in him – he still dreams about this soul mate myth. He BONDS with women at the emotional level, provides for them, sacrifies everything for them.

    And than there si the “MAN”. Neither alpha, nor beta. He is free, he does not need women. He does not let himself to be put down to the level of “jerk” – emotional, weak minded man or “wanna be alpha” – worthless man living according to rules of women. He has his rules, his life, his mission. He has himself. He knows that women are not his equals, they are children, living unconsciously most of the time. He treats them as they have to be treated. He enjoys women and fucks them as long as they OBEY and SERVE. NO realtionship game needed. Women want to be treated as his slaves. They ARE worshipping the ground the MAN walks along.

  7. Enjoyed this post, although I can’t see the point of any male guarding behaviour, unless as it has been pointed out she is in danger from another guy who is threatening.

    If she wants to cheat – she will.

    I think this where carefree indifference comes into play – if you are BEING the alpha male then you know, and more importantly SHE knows you have options with other women at any time.

  8. That’s the downside to being in a relationship if you’re not alpha – you have to keep her locked up during that ‘gotta have alpha cock’ stage. A task, to be sure. Lesson? Work on yourself before you get a girlfriend/wifey. Still, more often than not they’re prone to cheat unless you really have her around your finger.

  9. @Joe Blow

    The only way you failed is if you gave too much attention to her being mad afterwards.

    She was probably hoping to get a rise out of you by talking to the guy.

  10. What in the world would I have to guard her from? Every other guy is fucking lame lol

    Some RSD shit on value (aka hypergamy…it’s interesting to me that the PUA community doesn’t use the term hypergamy at all anywhere yet it’s super popular in the Manosphere. I just wonder how that happened, was hypergamy a term coined BY the Manosphere? Either way when we say girls are attracted to high value that’s what we’re describing):

    I think it’s important to note that you don’t have to BE successful to be attractive to her. You just have to be STRIVING for it, whatever the goal is. She’s attracted to your potential because she sees you overcoming obstacles and achieving things. If you’re in an LTR and your parents give you a Ferrari, that’s not as attractive to her as her watching you valiantly struggle through earning the money for a Ferrari through hard work, discipline, motivation, etc.

    She just wants to know that you can handle shit. In Californication there’s a good bit where he’s telling the mom how their kid got her first period on his time. “Omg what did you do??” “What did I do? What do you THINK I did. I handled the fuck out of that shit.”

    The only type of woman game doesn’t work on is a woman who is 100% satisfied and idolizes her man. Doesn’t matter what time of the month it is, if she sees him as higher value than any other man, no neg or push/pull in the world will get her to cheat. When I run into chicks like that now I don’t even bother trying anymore because I know it’s a dead end. The easiest woman to get to cheat is the one who’s clearly not satisfied or bored with her man and their relationship and no longer sees him as high value. That losing of value is the man’s fault, not hers.

    That’s why even if you work your ass off to pay the bills and clothe the children and buy a mansion and buy her trips to Paris and all that shit, if you don’t at least learn some minimal game so you can keep her ACTUALLY attracted via REAL attraction switches, and keep her adoring you and satisfied, I can probably fuck her. Game trumps all that other shit.

  11. @YaReally…

    I remember reading something years ago that said the worst feeling a woman can have to a man is to be indifferent. It would be better if she hates your guts than to feel nothing at all. At least with hatred you have some value to her.

  12. The most important thing anyone said here was “if she wants to cheat, she will.”

    This is something you cannot get around. She will see a man eventually. Keep her out of the bars/clubs/etc? Are you going to keep her our of the grocery store? (Day Bang anyone?) Are you going to stop her from going to the doctor, dentist, visit her family?

    You can not stop a woman from cheating. But here is the thing. If a woman cheats, or is thinking about cheating, your relationship is already over. She no longer respects you as a man. She no longer loves you. A man will cheat because he is horny, even if he is still in love. A woman cheating means she does not respect you and you do not arouse her. It’s over, son.

    If she is even thinking of cheating on you…it’s over. She should be fantasizing about how hard you fucked her last night, not the guy down the street.

    The only way to mate guard is to be a bad ass mate. Out do, out earn, be hotter than, and out fuck every other man. Then you’re covered. Otherwise, hypergamy will lead her away. You can’t blame a fish for swimming, you can’t blame a woman for trading up. That’s all there is to it.

  13. I think that the old school ideal of marriage takes into account that people will begin to dislike each other. Basically it was a given that ‘love’ wasn’t going to last (if it was there in the first place) and it was an institution to create civilization.

    Beta men needed pussy or they would just fight or drop out. It was simply an arrangement to build a society and wasn’t supposed to be this never ending romance.

    Look what Jesus says about divorce

    Matt 19

    8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

    10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

    Let’s step back here, the holy disciples were going ‘Wait a sec, you mean we have to stay with this hag the rest of our life, better not marry then. That’s like hell on earth.”

    The first occurence of MGTOW. Lol.

  14. Dr. Illusion
    The only way to mate guard is to be a bad ass mate. Out do, out earn, be hotter than, and out fuck every other man. Then you’re covered. Otherwise, hypergamy will lead her away. You can’t blame a fish for swimming, you can’t blame a woman for trading up. That’s all there is to it.

    Furious Ferret
    I think that the old school ideal of marriage takes into account that people will begin to dislike each other. Basically it was a given that ‘love’ wasn’t going to last (if it was there in the first place) and it was an institution to create civilization.

    Exactly. The purpose of Marriage 1.0 was to bind two people together long enough to raise children in a functional family. There were serious consequences for both parties for breaking their marriage vows.

    As Mark Minter has so eloquently pointed out, Marriage 2.0 is just too much trouble. “… a bad ass mate. Out do, out earn, be hotter than, and out fuck every other man.” Who needs that shit? One purpose of traditional marriage was to relieve the husband of the burden of this so he could focus on productive activities.

    I’ve been married 24 years. If I were considering marrying the same woman today, as a young man, I wouldn’t do it. Marriage is a pain in the ass and the longer it lasts the more you pay and the less you get.

    My challenge now is educating my 18 year old son who hears what I say but does not really understand. It’s too easy for him to dismiss my advice as the negativity of a middle aged man.

  15. Only religion can restore marriage.

    Dream on. Traditional marriage will only be restored when the incentives for women not to be married are removed and the incentives for women to be married are reinstated. History tells us how those changes come about. It’s not complicated.

  16. A powerful incentive is the alternative of eternal damnation. Logically, it is the MOST powerful incentive.

    I’ll resist the temptation to make fun of that as I can see you’re serious.

    Let’s just say the threat of eternal damnation does not carry too much weight with people who are not religious.

    1. Atheists ARE irritated by warnings of eternal damnation. But, another powerful incentive is to point out that if you don’t reproduce, mass euthanasia will be inevitable. My religion isn’t Christianity (or Islam, or Judaism), and does allow euthanasia in many cases, not necessarily all consensual.

  17. My religion isn’t Christianity (or Islam, or Judaism), and does allow euthanasia in many cases, not necessarily all consensual.

    Maybe you’re a Mormon and will be a god with your very own planet when you die.

    Mormons have everyone beat that way. 72 virgins? Chump change. Mohammed was a piker.

    Know how to piss off a Christian? Point out the loophole. A loophole big enough to drive a fleet of trucks through. The deathbed conversion. If I accept Christ in my final hour on Earth I’ll be standing in front of St. Peter right along with them. Doesn’t seem fair really.

  18. @Chuck

    Good luck knowing when your final hour will be. Not everyone is lucky enought to lay in bed surrounded by their family while you are peacefully swept into the afterlife.

  19. Does Mormonism allow euthanasia? My religion promises the opportunity to torture the enemies of God in the Afterlife. Acid, broken bottles, and iron maidens are available, among others.

  20. I agree that beta’s have the sexual strategy of banding together into a group to enforce social mores of monogamy, and that this is a group form of mate guarding.

    I agree that there are two main strategies to keeping a woman – vinegar and honey. Mate guarding through making it unpleasant for the woman to stray, and keeping the woman by being her best and most attractive option.

    Nowadays we have to focus more on being honey, as the vinegar ways have lost traction.

    However, I think it’s going too far to lump all vinegar ways together on the side of beta behaviors.

    It can be completely in line with an alphas interests to own a woman, and to act that way. Not only in line with his interests, but pragmatic, effective, and most of all, attractive.

    Mate guarding behaviors can be highly attractive.

  21. @taterearl

    Yep. All she wants is /\/\/\/ emotions instead of a flatline of —— emotions. There’s a reason soap operas, romance novels, Twilight bullshit, etc. don’t just involve good people doing good things and why chicks stay with guys who treat them like shit.

    You don’t have to make her feel GOOD, you have to make her feel ANYTHING.

    Bob the generic accountant who works all day at a job he hates but has no drive to do better, then comes home and vegetates on the couch watching TV as he gets fat and lazy and spends all day trying to escape reality and settle into a nice boring comfortable life, isn’t making her feel anything. Then an asshole PUA comes along and teases her and makes her go all “OMG!! You’re such a JERK lol (arm punch)” and she remembers what it’s like to feel emotions again.

    The PUA community these days focuses a lot on having goals outside of women and a path in life, etc. The MRA/MGTOW/PUA communities all converge in that area, though I don’t think the respective camps realize that because they all despise eachother too much to really look into their systems lol it’s a funny situation to me.

  22. @ ya really
    ” I think it’s important to note that you don’t have to BE successful to be attractive to her. You just have to be STRIVING for it, whatever the goal is. She’s attracted to your potential because she sees you overcoming obstacles and achieving things. If you’re in an LTR and your parents give you a Ferrari, that’s not as attractive to her as her watching you valiantly struggle through earning the money for a Ferrari through hard work, discipline, motivation, etc.”

    You will more than likely find when you have achieved the desired level of sucess that one has been aspiring too, that you just wont give a f**k about women any longer as life has become more fulfilling. Not just saying i dont give a f**k but actually not, as in if your not haappppyyyyyy woman you know where the front door is and dont slam it on your way out….. go be happy somewhere else.. There is no logic to striving for tangible or intangible assets if the underlying intrinsic motivation is to score more ass, think complements not substitutes…………

  23. I’m awake.

    My eyes are still adjusting to the new environment, sensitive to the light around me, everywhere. This site, along with CH have been nothing short of a revelation, bringing into focus many aspects of the male and female dilemma that is co-existing together in an increasingly complex world.

    Rossi, let me start off by thanking you for your contributions to the cause. In my previous life, much of my success was predicated upon my ability to communicate difficult truths to others, and still achieve a high rate of productivity out of them. Often times this requires the social skills of tact, reason and diplomacy, both of which you interlace into your work quite well.

    This is powerful, as it allows the reader to consume your work with an open mind. There is no better way to kill the power of a message then by adding in your own personal venom. Women reading this may not agree with some of your conclusions, however they will be hard pressed to argue you have not made your case in a fair and for the most part, unbiased manner (it is impossible to completely remove bias, and we both know why).

    I am a 32yr male who has recently ‘unplugged’. I started this phase on my own, believe it or not and am now several years into this process. Your work on the sexes, specifically understanding female hypergamy, has filled in a lot of blanks for me. I have alpha and beta traits, so hearing some of the truths about myself have been difficult at times, while others have been a major moral booster. Allow me to explain:

    I had 3 LTR’s in my 20’s, each lasting roughly 2.5 yrs averaged out. In each case, the relationship eventually ended with her ending things, at best it was a mutual decision. They all had another man lined up, in each time I felt the sting of betrayal and sense of utter confusion. How the fuck did I end up in this spot again?? As a rational man I came to the conclusion that I was obviously a factor in these outcomes, and my actions had played a part in the end result. It was my job, my obligation, to understand my own nature and learn how to handle it with other woman before I went any further. Getting woman into bed was never a problem for me, and I would argue that for any average looking man with social skills, this should still be the case. I never bedded a woman higher than a 7 or 7.5 if I am being fair, and I have probably turned down a few higher in my time for sad reasons (intimidation being the biggest, lack of self worth at some level as well). The Alpha in me worked wonders when I applied it, my amused mastery was and still is cat nip when applied right. I have naturally aloof, I am JUST NOW realizing that my aloofness actually helped fend off the hypergamic forces in play in my relationships. I would rarely return phone calls in a ‘timely manner’, text messages from the GF were not priorities to me, nor was finding out about how each one of her days at work went, etc. I cared enough to let her know I was there and vested, while leaving a strong sense of Dread in her at the same time. I was never an asshole about it, and when conversations came out about it I would tell her

    “I’m independent, that means I have a lot of interests outside of our relationship. I am also very ambitious, a quality you love about me. This drives me to take on a lot of different things which takes up my time, and I am happiest this way”. It was my confidence in my own self, it wasn’t an act which is why it worked. I would care enough to keep her coming back, but not enough to cede control or change the dynamic of the relationship. When things became stale I would tell her “This isn’t working for me, i’m not happy and you aren’t either, let’s call this for what it is and move on”

    Of course, each and every single time this conversation even remotely reared its head, she would go hysterical with emotion and fear, she knew I meant what I said and more importantly, I meant what I felt. It’s all for naught, for each and every single time I caved in the end and things went back to normal, which did not work out too well for Cass Man. They all eventually lost the fear of Dread, I stopped giving an active shit about keeping up my own life outside of the relationship. She had won, I was no longer a threat to leave camp. BING BING BING, YOU WON. Come claim your prize at the front.

    Everything went to shit, slowly, once this reality set in with my women. They knew I wasn’t going anywhere, want to know why? Probably by the way I would fucking pine over their every fault they would find in me over time, how I would put them before myself no matter what, and how I had stopped putting my foot down when their bitching became unbearable. To be sure, the end of these relationships had other faults in them, some were of my own doing. The point here is that once I stopped instilling the sense of Dread in my women, once I gave up my life of Aloofness towards them and their unrealistic wants, once I gave her everything she claimed she wanted, I lost, everything.

    Read this again so you are clear on why i’ve written this mini novel so far:

    ‘Once I gave her everything she claimed she wanted, I lost, everything.’

    I own my decisions, including the piss poor, misguided and uneducated ones made during my previous relationships. I can get 7’s in bed simply based on my looks and ability to communicate and understand psychology. Bedding good looking woman isn’t tough at all in the new hook-up era. For a man my age, staying in top shape, having good genes (yes I know I won the lottery here, it was waiting for me when I arrived), high social economic status and a modicum of social tact are more than enough to get girls in their early 20’s all the way up to whatever age you want to stop at.

    This is relatively simple. What is challenging for so many of us is to be true to ourselves as Men and still provide her with what she needs, without feeling pressure from society to conform to fem-centric social conventions. This site, and the profound contributions from Rossi as well as the many posters here, is a great start.

    To Rossi and the other posters who add to the education discussions here, keep up the good work. For every Man you awaken, I see another 100 struggling with no hope in sight.

    Your work is purposeful.

  24. Christ.

    Rollo, it’s 10AM where I am and i’ve already been up for many, many hours. You’ll have to cut me some slack and still somehow take the meat of content out of my ‘virgin’ post there, heh.

  25. oogenhand
    Does Mormonism allow euthanasia? My religion promises the opportunity to torture the enemies of God in the Afterlife. Acid, broken bottles, and iron maidens are available, among others.

    I would think with the full resources of the Afterlife available to you you could come up with better stuff than that. You should watch the Hellraiser series of horror movies. Might give you a few pointers.

    Other than that, it’s hard to know what to say about someone that spends their time thinking about what they’re going to do to other dead people in the afterlife. I wouldn’t send my daughter over to your house for a sleepover for a start.

    1. I said, among others. The hard fact is that atheists have little chance in this world. Would you let your daughter sleepover in the house of someone who believes in the 72 virgins?

  26. I don’t really agree with the strategic pluralism concept for explaining the lack of alpha mate guarding. Alphas – at least the socio-rank alphas – actually have mutliple reproductive strategies available, and investing in a legitmate heir who will inhereit his status is a very valuable strategy. Remember that reproductive success isn’t just having kids, it’s about having grandkids, and providing your male offspring with a social status boost makes that more likely.

    So alphas have a reason to keep their relationships together. Thing is, they don’t really have to mate guard to do that because their women are not going to be receptive to other men. Women don’t really do the 1-10 ranking thing, they have a binary selection process. A guy is either attractive or not. If he’s attractive, then nobody else is really more attractive to her.

  27. Dr. Illusion: Yes, I absolutely can blame a woman for trading up.

    A relationship involves both parties putting aside some part of their sexual imperative to make something better. Men sacrifice their need for variety, women sacrifice their need for the best. If you are unwilling or unable to uphold your part of the bargain then don’t even enter one.

    A woman that trades up – especially if she initiates a divorce to do so and collects cash and prizes in the process – is reneging on this contract and deserves contempt for doing so. It’s simple betrayal. Just because your animal urges compel you to act one way or another does not mean you should do so.

  28. @xsplat

    I agree that you can’t lump all mate guarding into beta behaviors.

    The few times that I’ve felt the need to tell my wife “you’re not going out wearing that. I don’t want other guys looking at that” she gets a sweet smile, lowers her eyes, goes and changes, comes back and says to me “is this better?”.

    Her body language and tone indicate that she is happy to comply and it’s not a “beta” turn off.

    Of course it’s all within the context of having hand in the relationship and the request has to have a point. You can’t be expressing insecurity. If all you ever do is mate guard then it’s going to turn her off.

  29. Alpha of the Day?

    “Keith Macdonald has nine children with eight different women and was due to appear before court in June after he headbutted Stephanie Jubb in an argument over a cheese toastie, leaving her with a bloody nose.

    Giving evidence in June, Miss Jubb said: ‘He came back and I could smell alcohol on his breath and his eyes were quite bloodshot.

    ‘He was fine he was chatty, he made himself a toastie and went to go upstairs to eat it.

    ‘I told him ‘you’re not eating that upstairs, I’ve just hoovered.

    ‘He then threw the toastie and the plate on the kitchen table and shouted ‘F**k it!”

    She confronted Macdonald and ripped out the plug of his X-Box console, and in retaliation he ran downstairs, threw her Nintendo Wii across the room and assaulted her, leaving her with two black eyes.

    He has a series of previous convictions, including a prison sentence for hitting another man with a pint glass.

    Macdonald, who spends his money on lager and fruit machines, has also had restraining orders taken out against him by two of his children’s mothers and spent time in jail for breaking one of the orders.

    In 2011 Keith was caught out on Panorama when he could not remember the names of all his children.”

    Uhhh, you go, Boy!

  30. oogenhand
    Would you let your daughter sleepover in the house of someone who believes in the 72 virgins?

    A moot point. I live in whitopia and don’t know any Muslims. Or any other minorities for that matter. I would imagine that’s not the case for you in the Netherlands.

    So when you think about torturing the enemies of God in the Afterlife, what’s a typical scenario? What do you start with?

  31. @Bully

    I don’t want to bang a fat chick. That means I expect my LTR to eat right and work out. I will not be turned down for sex. So I expect my LTR to always be happy to service me. I expext to cone home to a clean house every day.

    In return for these things, I watch what I eat. I move forward in my career. I fuck her every day, to the best of my ability. Is that too difficult?

    We expect women to submit, expect women to be loyal, be sexy, keep the relationship interesting. And what? We should get a beer gut, go to our 9-5 and never get promoted, come hone and watch football? And expext her not to trade up? Come on, man.

    @Chuck Hammer

    You say “who needs that shit? Marriage is supposed to relieve us of that burden” in response to me saying be a bad ass, stay attractive, and ouu fuck other men. How is that a burden? You think a woman should stay with you when you let yourself go and give her mediocre, missionary style sex once a week? What burden do you speak of?

  32. Let me clarify. My point is even if you do all that – I work my ass off in the workplace, home, and gym to keep at the top of my game, and I’m sure you do too – you can still be traded in for.

    Hypergamy cares about what you actually pull off, not about the percentage of your potential you’re working at. If you work your ass off all your life to accumulate, say, a million bucks and give her a happy, comfortable life, and 25-year old Joe Inheritance who never worked a day in his life with far more at his disposal moves in on your woman, your ass is toast unless she upholds her side of the ‘contract’ and resists those hypergamic urges, just as you resist the urge to get strange on the side.

    She SHOULD dump you if you’re lazy, slovenly, shiftless, whatever. I get that, A woman’s job in the courtship process, however, is to gauge the potential of the man she’s with. If her man is working at that potential – the agreed upon terms and she jumps to someone with a higher potential, that is what is contemptible.

  33. OK, Bully, I agree with you then. I thought you were saying something else. I really hate it when people get married and one party lets themselves go, then bitches when they get left. You can read the story of my wife on my blog.

    Don’t get married. My tired old advice. Kep on top of your game. If a woman leaves, replace her.

    Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding of your statement, sir.

  34. Dr. Illusion
    You say “who needs that shit? Marriage is supposed to relieve us of that burden” in response to me saying be a bad ass, stay attractive, and ouu fuck other men. How is that a burden? You think a woman should stay with you when you let yourself go and give her mediocre, missionary style sex once a week? What burden do you speak of?

    I don’t know how old you are but maybe you haven’t learned yet that life isn’t a linear progression. You may get sick, you may get fired from your job, you may get depressed when a parent or sibling dies. And yes, you may even get fat. You will not always be on top of your game. The purpose of Marriage 1.0 was to bind two people together so that life’s inevitable setbacks did not immediately cause the dissolution of a marriage.

    The current state of marriage, where the commitment is basically one way, where women have unlimited social and legal support to divorce, is the burden I speak of. Where your only defense is to constantly be better than the other guy. Who needs that? As far as I can see, you’ve decided that you don’t.

  35. You are correct. I have decided that I don’t need it. I can’t fault you for being married, since you married before things hit tge shitter. And I feel your pain. I’m 26, by the way. And I have been married. Fuck that noise.

  36. Pingback: Beta Tells |
  37. @Dr. Illusion

    “The only way to mate guard is to be a bad ass mate.”

    I have been thinking about mate guarding recently. And the quote above illustrates what I believed to be true.

    I never liked the mindset of, “Hey chief, eyes on your own paper”, jealous type of behavior. I’ll admit though that I have done that in the past. It didn’t feel right.

    “You can’t blame a fish for swimming, you can’t blame a woman for trading up. That’s all there is to it.”

    I’m with you on that one. Although, to be honest, I never used to think like that. That’s because I was oblivious to some basic female nature.

    Some questions:

    Is mate guarding biological or a social creation? Perhaps a mix of both?

    If it’s social, can we condition it out of our systems to the point where it doesn’t exist?

    If it’s biological, and we can’t get rid of it, how can we deal with jealousy within a ltr?

    Are there any people here that are in open-relationships? If so, how do you deal with jealousy?

    (For the married men, including you too Rollo) Are there any feelings of jealousy within your relationships? Has there ever been?

    After writing these questions it got me thinking. Jealousy might be a deeper psychological issue that, people who experience it, might need to look into. Myself included. I’m incapable of articulating just exactly what I mean. Maybe you guys can help me pull it out of my brain.

  38. @CassMan

    I enjoyed reading your “I’m awake” comment. There were bits in there that I can’t directly relate to. Thanks for sharing.

  39. Probably the best reason not to mate-guard is that it’s fucking annoying as shit to the woman and will get your ass dumped real quick. Signed, a woman.

    1. And why is it annoying as shit? You mean it doesn’t make you feel special and valued? It’s not a turn on that a guy wants to keep other guys away from you?

  40. @penls

    That Keith macdonald guy hardly counts as an alpha lol. I grew up in the uk around people like this and the women will let anything in a tracksuit with a bit of swagger into their panties. Most of the women are also aggressive and antisocial and can be heard swearing at their kids in public and there are frequent aggressive cat fights. Most of them can be seen smoking around their kids and can’t even be bothered to give them the best start by breastfeeding or even trying. Their taste in men is often diabolical because they themselves are. Keith macdonald can hardly be defined as truly successful with women. The quality of woman he scores with is nil.

  41. Even a cursory review of his history reveals this statement to be blatantly ignorant: “Alpha men would have been less environmentally motivated to evolve mate guarding strategies that Beta men evolved as a contingency to women’s sexual pluralism (i.e. cuckoldry)”

    Nearly all the most alpha men in history have been ruthless, even lethal mate guarders (sultans, emperors, generals, even the American Mafia was notorious for killing people who threatened the marriages of made men).

    Mate guarding is in fact the defining behavior of the alpha male – his ability to prevent sexual access to his female(s) through winning direct conflict with other men.

    There is a big difference between cowtowing to a woman’s fickle emotions, or having a few pathetic words with a rival, and on the other hand, actually behaving as a formidable male who enacts real costs on both cheaters and poachers.

  42. Shit tests should be answered in nuclear fashion. Like a verbal axe attack.
    If you find yourself in an environment where your spouse is being hit on in your presence by someone more powerful, pull out your CCW card as you click the safety off. Someone has to take one for the team to re-establish some boundaries.

  43. @Joe Blow Nov 2012 – Stupid move. Your wife didn’t even mind that you were chatting up some “blonde” (as if hair color matters) but got upset thar you just allowed this guy to run his full court press game on her without you even showing any interest to break it up. That makes you look like you’re begging to be a cuckold. Next time you just walk away like a b¡tch she’s going to get the guy’s #.

  44. Well wtf is a guy supposed to do if
    a) the guy is bigger/stronger/more dangerous than you & could pummel you to dust
    b) you don’t want to blow up in anger and expose yourself
    c)she is the one playing along with his “game”

    Next strategies???

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