The Meta Frame

In last week’s comment thread Not Born This Morning shared an interesting quote that got me to thinking about Frame in a larger, meta perspective. I’m going to riff on it a bit here as I go, but I think it’s important to understand that the concept of Frame applies in many different circumstances in a man’s life. I’ve covered this idea in Frame as the first Iron Rule of Tomassi, as well as in Blue Pill Frame and in an interview of Mark Baxter and Carl from Black Label Logic.

The concept of Frame is one of the most often discussed Red Pill ideas – especially with guys newly unplugging from their old Blue Pill conditioned lives. Most men tend to think that controlling or owning their own Frame is the key to changing  their lot in life, and to an extent this is true. What they most often overlook is how to establish that ownership and developing their personalities around a confidence that comes from it. It doesn’t happen overnight in some magical process of simply changing one’s mind about themselves. Proponents (and marketeers) of the power of a Positive Mindset tend to oversimplify what I believe should be a developmental process of coming into a strong sense of a man’s Frame.

I say that because Frame in a larger perspective isn’t something a man can compartmentalize and make specific from one arena in his life and not in another. My last three essays State Control, Submission, and Family Integrity are really explorations in this Meta Frame ownership. A lot of quick-hit Game proponents, as well as ‘Life Coaches’ like to repeat the mantra of how women are attracted to confidence in a man, but what they’re really selling is the idea of a man owning the Frame of his life. Confidence with his career, family life, friends, his status and confidence in understanding the base nature of women from a Red Pill aware, and how to use it to his advantage, are really all aspects of a strong Frame control.

Confidence is the result of having real, actionable options, and/or the self-understanding that a man’s past, provable, successes mean he can regenerate new options for himself. Confidence is certainly an aspect of solid Frame, but it is not Frame itself. Neither is confidence the result of one simply convincing himself he ought to feel more confident by thinking positively. Confidence is the result of having developed a mastery to successfully generate realizable options, and from that understanding comes solid Frame control.

The comment thread began here if you want to read it in full context, but the salient point I’ve quoted here:

The following excerpt is well worth sharing with everyone here at Rational Male as it pertains to the questions we debate, and ask ourselves, considering men, women and the inevitable sexual social dynamics. At first consideration you will likely think I am even more full of crap than I am, but it is wise to be patient and think about the following seriously. What I am about to tell you dovetails with my most recent comments, there is wisdom herein on the most fundamental level concerning all this.

“Fooled?” is an excerpt (verbatim) from the book entitled “What is the name of this book?” written by Raymond M. Smullyan.


Chapter 1 – “Fooled?”

My introduction to logic was at the age of six. It happened this way: On April 1, 1925, I was sick with grippe, of flu, or something. In the morning my brother Emile (ten years my senior) came into my bedroom and said: “Well Raymond, today is April Fool’s Day, and I will fool you as you have never been fooled before!” I waited all day long for him to fool me, but he didn’t. Late that night, my mother asked me, “Why don’t you go to sleep?” I replied, “I’m waiting for Emile to fool me.” My mother turned to Emile and said, “Emile will you please fool the child!” Emile then turned to me and the following dialog ensued:

Emile “So, you expected me to fool you didn’t you?”

Raymond “Yes”

Emile “But I didn’t, did I?”

Raymond “No”

Emile “But you expected me to, didn’t you?”

Raymond “Yes”

Emile “So, I fooled you, didn’t I ?!”

Well, I recall lying in bed long after the lights were turned out wondering whether or not I had really been fooled. On the one hand, if I wasn’t fooled, then I did not get what I expected, hence I WAS fooled. (this is Emile’s argument.) But with equal reason it can be said that if I was fooled, then I DID get what I expected, so then, in what sense was I fooled? So, was I fooled or wasn’t I?

End of excerpt.


So, how does the forgoing excerpt pertain to sexual gender dynamics? And how does it dovetail into the subject of my previous comment?

When we model our sexuality with women in the fashion of a “game” being aware of red pill “truths” and applying strategy accordingly, we do so at an invitation to operate within the dynamic of the feminine MO. It is imperative to comprehend that Red Pill “truths” are actually nothing more than stratagems which only effectively become “truth” when they are respected as such.

I’ll note here that I disagree that Red Pill truths are stratagems in and of themselves. What may be considered stratagems (depending on how applied) are Game techniques and contingencies. I would argue that Red Pill awareness and truths are fundaments and concepts that exist apart from, but inform, Game stratagems.

They are only manifested into reality when they are effective. They are each like terms of a contract, each of which is a term offer of how the relationship will be defined. Their real manifestation is only possible when both parties accept them to be “true”. Accepting them and respecting them can only be done by submitting to the frame within which they are cast. You make their truth become your truth only by subverting yourself to the idea that they are in fact universally true. You make them false by not subverting yourself to them. Ignore them.

Again, I disagree. Red Pill truths exist in spite of a belief in them or whose Frame, male or female, a man or woman is operating in. Blue Pill idealism, replete with all of the hope-filled delusions of what behaviors and thinking should produce mutual genuine desire, is unproductive because it conflicts with the evolved, base nature of human beings. Red Pill awareness is hard to accept for most men because it is counterintuitive to what Blue Pill conditioning has hammered into their heads, but it is enlightening once a man understands the latent purpose of Red Pill truths. Those truths exist no matter whose Frame a man plays into.

A woman can experience her full attraction to a man only when she respects him (this does not mean she must be frightened of him). To gain respect, you must remain outside their frame entirely. As a consequence, you will gain control of those who cannot lure you into this morass, their relentless test is to see if you can be baited or if you are already conscripted. Understand this and you will gain great power over all women, feminists included. Psychological dominance is established primarily by the explication of not taking the bait, rather than only an implication of not taking the bait. And actions speak louder than words. The test results cannot be faked for long because you may be able to fool some people all the time and all people some of the time but you cannot fool all people all the time.

As I’ve mention countless times, Hypergamy is based on a fundamental doubt for women – is this guy really the best she can do? That doubt exists outside of whoever’s Frame is the dominant one. It is a mistake to think that a woman’s testing a man is always intrinsically malicious. Shit testing a man is only “bating” him when a woman is self-aware enough to realize that she is consciously doing so. In this case I might be inclined to agree that it is her Frame that is defining a man’s reality, assuming he’s unaware (or refuses to believe) he’s honestly doing so.

For the most part, women’s insistence on their Frame being the dominant one is largely something they’re unaware of. The Hypergamous doubt, the subconscious decision making, the influence of ovulatory shift in their libidos, the reason they shit test, and many other behaviors and rationales for them are aspects of women’s natures they have no reason to have any insight about.

When Raymond accepted Emile’s invitation to Emile’s contest of being fooled or not, Raymond entered a frame that was predefined, created and controlled exclusively by Emile. Emile was the absolute omniscient emperor of this frame and all its tenants including Raymond. There is a profound lesson offered here. Those who learn from it, know that Raymond’s only proper response would have been to simply state: “Emile, you cannot fool me.” A lack of response (MGTOW) is as cowardly as an agreement, no matter the terms of the agreement (Alpha-Beta or Macho-Musho). The most desirable masculine men are the ones who cannot be fooled. You are either free or you are tamed, wild or domesticated, master or slave.

Whether or not Emile predefined a truth for Raymond doesn’t erase the fact that there is an objective truth that exists apart from both of them. That is the root of Red Pill awareness and the reason why learning and acknowledging it is so productive for men – with women and in life. I agree that rejecting someone else’s subjective truth is a primary element in unplugging, but so is acknowledging the objective truth surrounding you and using it to one’s benefit.

Authenticity

Not Born This Morning has a tendency to return to the question, ‘whose meta-frame are men really operating within?’ If women control the larger social dynamic as to how men will define every term of engagement, up to and including men’s own existences (to say nothing of sexual strategies) then they are not acting or thinking ‘genuinely’ as Real Men® should.

This is a MGTOW classic now, and it’s a tough hurdle for most of them to get past. The more militant will say that any engagement at all with women is acquiescing to the female meta-frame. I think some distinction needs to be made between an individual woman insisting on her own dominant Frame and the larger, meta-social narrative that women in general should always expect to have men relinquish Frame because it is women’s correct and entitled position.

I don’t believe Not Born This Morning falls into that MGTOW category since he is directly engaging women in direct Game. I discussed this in my first interview with Allen Roger Currie and had some very insightful comments about direct vs. indirect Game. You can look them up, but essentially the MGTOW approach distills to Direct = Genuine, Indirect = Disingenuous or ‘unauthentic’ if you prefer. The idea is that if you feel like you need to be indirect or communicate on women’s terms, or women’s preferred form of communication, you are surrendering to women’s meta-frame.

In such a case you may be able to ‘fool’ a woman of your authenticity as a “man” but it wont be a permanent impression on her in the long term. In this line of thinking you literally can’t “fake it till you make it” you must first “make it” and then act in an authentic way that reflects you operating from an uncompromisable position of your own male meta-frame.

I half agree with Not Born This Morning in the sense that men ought to own their own worlds and be ‘made’ to the point that a directness about it becomes a man’s default approach. It would be nice if men could understand objective Red Pill truths (in all aspects of intersexual dynamics), internalize it, cast off their old Blue Pill misgivings and then make that a part of his own authenticity. It would be great if guys could go from Red Pill school to Game practice as a matter of course, but that’s not always practical for guys. Owen from RSD has made a very lucrative business on the idea that Game practice and action should come first, Red Pill understanding of why it works second. As you might guess I disagree with that because most guys who’ve been deprived of women’s sexuality and intimacy for most of their lives only care about driving the car and care nothing about how it was built or how to repair it. They get trapped in the process and are discovered to be inauthentic in the long term if they don’t make the Red Pill connection and understand the larger meta-Game going on around them.

That said, I disagree with the idea that authentic masculinity can’t be learned. In terms of attraction that may eventually be the case, but in terms of arousal and triggering it in women, it can very much be learned, and indirect approaches can prove just as effective as direct ones. Lets not lose sight that arousal (short term sexual) and attraction (long term provisional) are two sides of Hypergamy and either can set the prioritization of the criteria a woman has for a man – and modified by her physical and maturation states. Women’s attraction/arousal triggers can most definitely be fooled, the real question is how long can you hold up the impression of being an “authentic” (as defined by MGTOWs or whoever) man while you sort out whatever that ought to mean in terms of a controlled meta-frame?

One Tomassi maxim has always been that women should only ever be a complement to a man’s life and never the focus of it. That idea is only profound, only controversial, to men because it conflicts with the feminine-dominant social meta-frame men are taught to accept as part of their Blue Pill conditioning. Blue Pill men are raised to believe in female social dominance – a default female frame – but are comforted by a belief that it’s all about equalism. When you suggest that it is in fact men’s meta-frame that women ought to respect and acknowledge; that is men’s meta-frame that comes closest to objective Red Pill truth, that is when the fighting starts.

I’m of the opinion that guys ought to have a more balanced approach – Red Pill theory and Game practice with the end result being a man coming into a solid meta-frame for himself and understanding where women’s proper place should fit into it. We often repeat that women require masculine dominance from men; I would offer that this dominance should be the result of a man owning his Frame and genuinely being in control of the ‘world’ he expects a woman to voluntarily enter. That makes sense.

 If you’re a fraud in the long term (meta-male Red Pill aware authenticity), all of the short term attraction, arousal and dynamism you offered her at the outset only exacerbates a woman’s disappointment in a man. Game is great; it gets you the ‘Dream Girl’ you couldn’t fuck before you learned it, but once you’re “found out” in the long term and it’s clear that – despite all your Game skills – you’re really Blue Pill and subscribe to all the failings it conditions into men, this only serves to anger a woman for having invested her Hypergamous trust in you.

Now, of course, the refrain will be, “But Rollo, who gives a fuck what women want in the long term? It’s my world, take it or leave it.” If your long term goal is simply a lot of short term lays I can completely concur. When men begin to get concrete results with women they’d never had before it’s easy to understand this sentiment, but it doesn’t change the objective fact that even in spinning plates women eventually want to presume that a man is implying a more long term monogamy at some point. So, while it may be that a man’s only immediate plan for ‘his reality’ is to include short-term, non-exclusive sexual relationships, Hypergamy still has two sides to it and your plans will not alter women’s innate reality.

In the next post I will discuss this and the latent purposes of both men and women’s competing sexual strategies and the social conventions that facilitate or limit those strategies.

82 comments

  1. As a man, it’s paramount that you understand that women aren’t the enemy, but their natures will eat you alive and spit you out if you do not understand them. You can use all theoretical Frame you want, but if you ignore the fundamental nature of what you’re dealing with, then there will be consequences. And that’s where the balance of having Game comes into play…You have the Red Pill which is the theory, and Game which is the practice and excessive of that theory. That’s the only way to exercise Frame on a meta-scale, because both working together are what drives the maximization of one’s personal Frame.

    Red Pill Theory + Game = Meta-Frame

  2. I think part of the reason disillusionment and anger and “Damn I thought I was God, what the hell happened” hits men so hard is that they truly believe in Egalitarianism.

    That is to say, they believed they needed Game to CATCH UP with the “powerful women” who they want to fuck and feel like they aught to have had a “fair chance” at gaining the right to fuck.

    Only such a thing is impossible in Egalitarianism. You can’t share what you must keep to yourself and have that which you must keep to yourself serve the same purpose.

    In which case, what are MOST Incels anyway? That’s right, Acolytes of the Church of Egalitarian Equalism.

    Children with dynamite.

  3. “… Shit testing a man is only “bating” him when a woman is self-aware enough to realize that she is consciously doing so …”

    So if she does it subconsciously, which happens a lot, then it’s simply a woman behaving how women behave?

  4. Anytime you play “fair” or wait for consent, you’re in their frame. The only way to not operate in someone else’s frame is lie, cheat, rape, murder, brainwash, and steal. To do these things means to not be “fair”

    What exactly is “fair”?

    “Fair” means playing a game in a manner where other participants are given the power to choose their ‘fate’ along with given the information necessary to make a decision that best suits their interests (desired ‘fate’), whatever they may be.

    Honesty, openness, and waiting for consent is ‘fair’.

    Let’s use a business analogy (then later tie to sex)….

    To give consumers the option to shop someonewhere else for their needs, to wait for a person to willingly hand you money in exchange for goods and services, and to provide all the information that a consumer needs to make a purchase that best suits their interests is “fair”

    To hold the power to limit people’s options and leverage it (to weild it), to take someone’s money without their consent (theft), to give less or different to what was agreed upon, to omit vital information or provide false information, or to decieve (non-false but misleading), is “unfair”

    Anyone who owns a business knows that the greatest boss is the customer. Billions up billions of dollars, and millions of man hours are used to find out how to convince a person to relinquish their money by choice. They are in the customer’s frame. I dont care how good of a salesman you are, you’re still in the customer’s frame. The only escape from this is a monopoly, scamming, brainwashing, or theft.

    Monopoly History Example: In the 1900s Bell systems used to have a monopoly on telephones. To increase their benfits, they leveraged this fact by only renting-out (not selling) phones to homes and jacking up the prices. If you did not except this rental agreement and the associated high price, you could not take advantage of the telephone system and it’s major benefits in human communication. This was considered “unfair” and in response to public outcry, the government broke up Bell systems into separate entities, creating competition.

    Killing Example:

    What’s the difference between walking up to someone and injecting a lethal dose of a substance vs. that someone asking you to assist them in death via lethal injection? The former is murder (killing legally innocent or without permission), the latter is euthansia (assisted suicide). In the former case, you took someone’s life without agreement, you took someone’s power to decide their fate.

    How does this relate to women?

    In the sexual market place, there are only three ways to not play within women’s frame: ignore them, wait for them to initiate sex, and rape. Everything else is within a female’s frame because you are waiting for her permission to access her vagina, and are acting in ways to convince her to give it to you. Whether or not you’re good at it doesn’t change this fact. She decides if, when, how, and where you access her vagina. Dont delude yourself. You approaching women in-person or electronically via text message, phone call, email, comment, or personal message is an admission that you would fuck her then and there, everything else is you trying to convince her to spread her legs. If you do not perform an act of violence against others or her, you must perform a mating fance/ritual, even if she intiates it. Women’s psychology requires it. In exchange for not having reproductive capacity and the burdens associated with it, you have the eternal burden of performance.

    If you dont believe this (all male sexual strategy outside rape and no sex preceded by mating ritual is in a woman’s frame) ask yourself, why is that you’re more than capable of raping women (physically) in a sea of anonymity, that you even bother with ‘game’? That’s because you fear legal action, men with guns will kidnap you and detain you for a long period of time, then place you on the sex registry that open for all to see. In other words, men with guns give women a frame, they give women power, they force you to play her game.

    People’s modern ‘moral’ view on rape is very very very recent. The reason I know that most attempts at having sex with women is in their frame is because that frame was developed only yesterday (relatively speaking) and has never existed in human history.

    I can already hear people screeching, “hey asshole, how about the fact that’s it inherently wrong!!!!11!!!1!” or “are you suggesting rape if you believe you can escape legal reprecussions?!??!”

    This means you do not understand history. Read any literature on hunter-gatherers NOT evo psyche, but research by anthropologists who’ve encountered, studied and lived among secluded native peoples without any appreciable agriculture and free from civilized influence over the past couple hundred years (us during columbus/cortez, south america during cortez and even today, australia in the 1800s, africa, papua nee guinea, etc). The concept of rape does not exist or is not considered harm against the woman herself. At most, if she is not from another allied tribe or if she is your wife, it’s not considered rape. If she isnt your wife or is not your wife AND from an allied tribe, it’s a crime against the clan and the family, you infringed on their power to benefit from access to her vagina via bride price (a significant method or resource acquisition and cooperation) or you harmed the husband’s image.

    Once agriculture became the norm, people started arranging themselves in individual families without a tribe headed by the husband (patriarchy: rule by fathers, not men). If you raped an unmarried woman, it was considered a crime against the father. How is he going to offset his burden of his daughter’s care to another man via marriage when she has been ‘defiled’, thus not a virgin? How is he going to get a bride price?

    During the same time, if she was married, rape was considered a crime against the husband. You infringed upon his contract: life long burden of provisioning for her in exchange for sole access to her vagina. You could have impregnated her and forced him you take care of another man’s child.

    Later, up until I believe the 1980’s, the marital rape exception was still in place in the western world. FYI for over a billion people in this world (muslims) forced sex or even killing upon a non-muslim man, woman, or child doesnt matter . They are infidels. And Muslims are allowed and encouraged to lie about and denounce their faith if it is necessary in thevery same text (ie denying this fact). Sweden, Germany, and other Eurpean countries are quickly learning this fact as they embrace the migrants with open arms (and legs).

    We dont live in defined tribes, most of us are strangers, women aren’t marrying, and many women dont know their fathers, yet rape still isn’t prevalent. Why? A: legal force (men with guns). In a natural setting, women dont care about rape against women of other unallied tribes, just her and her tribeswomen. They even encourage raping and pillaging others by denying sex to those who don’t participate (read books motherfucker). Again, in a natural setting. Physiologically speaking, we are no different than the isolated hunter-gatherers of today and those from a 100,000 years ago.

    As a side note: Dont throw a “omg wimminz were oppressed throughout history” fit. Rape was only one of many many violent acts that were considered acceptable. Hunter-gatherers free of western influence kill because you’re accussed of black magic, kill because you’re a stranger, kill because they want more “life force”, kill for prestige, kill for the right to a mate within their own tribe, kill to be initiated, or because you’re a bully, and many other reasons. ‘Noble savage’ is bullshit.

    Great Hunter-gatherer book sources:

    The World Until Yesterday by Jared Diamond

    The Creation of Inequality by Kent Flannery and Joyce Marcus (more relevant to my post).

  5. is this guy really the best she can do?

    This is why whenever a woman feels that she “has” you – it’s over. It is that simple, she always needs to be qualifying herself to you, when she stops – you’re history. You have to always see her as temporary – what you’re using for the moment till something better comes along. This is why I always see more than one woman – and they know about each other. Keeps them on their toes and competition is to your advantage. It is as simple as that – too many guys complicate things…

  6. That said, I disagree with the idea that authentic masculinity can’t be learned.

    Seems obvious. 99% of men who ever lived would agree. Snotty naturals and sad-sack incels aside, most men now should be able to see this. Men are made, not born.

  7. Adam on shit testing

    So if she does it subconsciously, which happens a lot, then it’s simply a woman behaving how women behave?

    Yes. Now that you know this, you can watch women around you to see it. Watch couples in coffee shops, restaurants, bars. Watch women as you interact with them. Sassy girls are testing, just for a start.

    The testing never stops. It never, ever, stops, that demonstrates it’s inherent. Female relatives in their 70’s have shit tested me. Just a factor, not a catastrophe.

  8. Lynch pin of a post Rollo.

    Game is not frame. Game is the verbal and physical language of female seduction. Learn the language Adam, so to knowingly communicate, but operate from your frame.

    On confidence, I’d say the feeling of confidence is based on realizable options but the act is one on accepting the consequences, whatever those may be. Bring on the unknown unknowns.

  9. OFFTOPIC: RED PILL AT WORK – BOSS

    My patience is being tested once again by the Boss who wants to partner (Translation: teach him what I do) with me. This guy is even more of an insufferable idiot than even I had previously thought. As, I just received my performance review and received an average rating although my performance was excellent. He pulled the “oh, we’re out of time, go ahead and make your comments and we’ll discuss this again later bum rush thing. I told him I wouldn’t be signing unless it was rewritten. So, basically, Boss is applying the lazy “prove it to me” through quantification tactic that would have had blue me digging deeper to prove the boss wrong. I’ll continue to deal with this through frame control and minimizing the sharing of information. The only advice I could use is how to better implement and maintain the law of power that says not to give away your secrets due to vanity.

    I did let slip that I had made a recommendation to his boss that my sub-department be made a separate entity. Although he has done literally nothing for me, he feels this was disrespectful. I decided to keep it to myself the red pill mindset that respect is earned.

    I wrote a longer comment to get it out of my system, but I’ll spare my friends here, except to say that I realize the best solution to this issue is to leave immediately. In this regard I wish I was like Ehintellect with the ability to easily become self-employed. I am looking at other opportunities and would like to leave. The leads I pursued have come to naught and I am putting out new leads. I also wish I had Blaximus’ skill and tell this guy to fuck off and have him think it was both a good idea and his own idea.

    PS. You can have a better than average intersexual relationship and be challenged by other stuff–burden of performance.

  10. “The Creation of Inequality by Kent Flannery and Joyce Marcus”

    Not all amoeba are equal.

  11. Boys, it’s just so much easier just letting go of women and being single. For apart from sex, what does a real man need a woman for? I’m a youthful 51 with my own life in order, had lots of pussy on the journey & now i just couldn’t be bothered. Even sex is a drag now for all the bullshit attached to it. Seriously, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it. Maintain your frame & keep your freedom, which is way more important than anything any woman or any other man could ever ever give you. It’s all being way over analyzed now. Time to let it all go, and move on unattached, free, sane & happy…

  12. >>>”hypergamy is based on the fundamental doubt for women —is this guy the best thatshwsan do”

    This truth translated into a PUA/game context becomes the basis for the “boyfriend destroyer routine”.

    Amazing how all these pieces of the puzzle fit together to form that bigger picture of self actualisation.

  13. If-I-Fell

    Or another option, while simultaneously pursuing an exit, is to ruthlessly gun for this guy’s position all around him and then smilingly being the one to let him go or demote/transfer him. And then bask in that experience, towards Rollo’s “confidence is the sum of realizing options” view.

    Everything is a learning experience.

  14. I think its about the experiences and knowledge as well. If you have experiences with your share of beauties it certainly helps. If you managed to prove your worth as a man – have your own company and circle of equally successful guys around you, it helps a lot. Like Napoleon said – battles with women are the only battles for cowards. If you succeeded in manly battles – business, fights, war, sports – women are like children for you.

    If you have the aforementioned toghether with a firm grasp on female nature and machiavellism – you are very dangerous prey for any woman.

    The main problem is that majority of men are not able to play on an even level with women. Women are generally better equipped with machiavellistic strategies and manipulation – she survives by subduing and mastering male and his psyche for her purposes. He survival depends on manipulating males to work for her and protect her. What is marriage but triumph of woman over man.

    So our typical male is no match for women in battle of sexes. He is burdened by many traits which do not allow him to effectively manipulate women..romantic nature, urge to provide, protect, keep his woman happy, sacrifice for her…

    When we look close enough on hypergamy we find many similar traits between typical woman and dark triad man. Dark triad man or “jerk” is very hard to manipulate and subdue. He uses and abuses women for his purposes instead of being used and abused by them.

    Red pill theory – knowledge which fights those romantic, self-sacryfing instincst of men. Game – machiavellian strategy – in a way its the same as hypergamy.

    In battle of sexes its either rule or be ruled. No middle ground. Choose your sides freely gentlemen.

  15. ” . . . ruthlessly gun for this guy’s position all around him and then smilingly being the one to let him go or demote/transfer him.”

    A “trick” question I sometimes ask is, “When did GM acquire Chevrolet?”

    It didn’t. Chevrolet acquired GM.

    Billy Durant hooked up with Buick, then the number one American brand, and used it as the core to build GM around. Then, one day, his board of directors ousted him. Billy didn’t go home crying, he went home mad.

    At the same time Louis Chevrolet had run out his racing career and was trying to make a go of trading on his name as an auto maker, but he had neither experience nor capital to make much of a splash. Durant hooked up with him and built Chevrolet into America’s number one brand. In the background he was using the position of Chevrolet to quietly pick up GM stock in small lots. When he had enough of a base without anyone realizing what was going on, in one swell foop he bought enough GM stock to give him a controlling interest in GM, walked in and tossed out everyone who had tossed him out.

    Henry Ford founded the Henry Ford Company. Then one day his backers ousted him. Ford simply went out and founded the Ford Motor Company and began producing the same car he had designed for HFMC, forcing his former backers to reform the original company, as Cadillac, which within a couple years had to sell out to GM to survive.

    In an interview Ford was once asked what he would do if he woke up one morning and his entire fortune was gone. He answered (paraphrasing):

    “I’d go out and get another one. I know how it’s done.”

    This is how the people wearing big boy pants play the game.

  16. Good stuff KFG

    One of my favorite Mad Men scenes (of many)…

    And the reason to AVOID AVOID AVOID signing non-compete agreements, especially one sided heavy handed ones… Take less money if needed.

  17. The important thing to always keep in mind – with respect to politics, business, women, family, etc. – if people are involved, it’s personal. Always.

    Guy I know, post take over of his former firm, moved the head office back to his old firm’s building, specifically to get back his old office. The head of that firm was summarily executed to create the space of course…

  18. “Whether or not Emile predefined a truth for Raymond doesn’t erase the fact that there is an objective truth that exists apart from both of them. That is the root of Red Pill awareness and the reason why learning and acknowledging it is so productive for men – with women and in life.”

    It’s the objective truth few want to contemplate. The seemingly, insurmountable truth that doesn’t play nice, with our cherished beliefs.

    This is why boxing has always appealed to me. Aside from the dodgy judges and fighters avoiding other fighters, it’s an honest sport. Two people pitting themselves against one another.
    Take the Joshua v Klitschko fight. Klitschko was facing a man 14 years his junior. Despite being the better boxer with a decade worth of experience as a World Champion. He still needed to address this salient point. He did so by entering the ring, nearly, a stone lighter than his opponent. Speed is what he would use to counter youth.
    For the most part it worked. Klitschko dictated the exchanges and controlled the tempo of the fight. Joshua was aware of this and picked up the pace. Dropping Klitchko in the 5th round. But it wasn’t decisive and Klitschko rose and saw his opponent, drained from his exertion. Klitschko had been there himself and knew the state Joshua was in.
    He finished the round strong and made Joshua look unsteady on his feet. In round 6 he would drop Joshua, with a textbook right hand. Joshua could do nothing in the immediate aftermath. He had to bide his time. Giving up rounds 7 – 9. Though by the 10th round Joshua’s reserves had been restored. But even so he knew he needed a big round to get back into the fight. Frustration at being handled by his illustrious opponent led Joshua to produce a game changing upper cut in the penultimate round. Joshua would drop Klitschko again, before it was stopped.

    All of this is to say I would rather know the truth and adapt to it, than live a lie and be confronted with the truth.

    Innate versus manufactured confidence.

  19. @Gilder

    “Even sex is a drag now for all the bullshit attached to it. Seriously, if it flies, floats or fucks, rent it. Maintain your frame & keep your freedom, which is way more important than anything any woman or any other man could ever ever give you. It’s all being way over analyzed now. Time to let it all go, and move on unattached, free, sane & happy…”

    I hear you.

  20. “But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.”

    Which raises the question, how much is two hundred pounds?

    I have an ex American footballer friend who likes to point out that he may be nearly 60, but he is still strong and fit. The thing is, he knows how much he can lift and how fast he can run, but studiously avoids knowing how much other people can lift and how fast they can run.

    Because if he did that he would have to face the fact that he can still bench a world record – for 12 year old girls.

  21. “Don’t dismiss what you’re friend can do.”

    You missed the point.

    “Go out there and do it yourself.”

    Are you that new here?

  22. “Was there a point?”

    Yes.

    “That’s got to be a first.”

    No.

    “Do tell.”

    If you are really determined to craft your own subjective truth there are 100 ways you can lie to yourself – even in the weight room.

    The same guy likes to point out that he wears the same size pants that he did in high school, but he hasn’t seen his own dick in five years and I haven’t seen his belt buckle for three. His “truth” resides only in his own head, because he isn’t interested in being strong, lean and fit, he is interested in believing he is strong, lean and fit and telling people so.

  23. “Owen from RSD has made a very lucrative business on the idea that Game practice and action should come first, Red Pill understanding of why it works second”

    Rollo, first of all, great post once again!

    I don’t think this is RSDTyler’s pov. Have you seen his HotSeat @ Home(there are plenty of torrents around)?

    The TL;DR would be:
    (1)this is how social conditioning betatizes you(+ simulation exercises to feel these “forces”),
    (2)this is the frame of someone who lives game(clarity of intent/purpose, freedom from outcome, entitlement, congruence, self-amusement)
    (3)the only way to internalize these is through repetitive action(missions, outer game practice)

  24. Makes perfect sense to me.

    This is why I used to routinely spar with young ranked amateur boxers 30 years my junior. Painful perspective achieved.

    But that’s how I always knew I was the baddest motherfucker in the supermarket at any given time, lol.

    You gage skill by testing against others accomplishments. I am strong compared to the average 56 year old man, or the man who doesn’t lift heavy. Not so much when compared to younger men that lift consistently massive poundage.

    Heavy, like skill, can be highly subjective. Mean and averages count.

  25. @Blaximus:

    I’m still the baddest cycling motherfucker in the supermarket, but my demise as local top lion is imminent. I seem to get a little bit older every year, but the competition is always 21. Wat’s wit dat?

  26. @Kfg

    “Which raises the question, how much is two hundred pounds?”

    Nothing you’ve stated is relevant to Rollin’s axiom.

    Your quote here, is a vain attempt to query it. But when called out (by yours truly) you hide behind your friend. Regaling us with stories about him not living up to his own standards and how your post was about his subjective truth. But the point you’re missing is. If he were an American Footballer, he’s benched far more weight than you or I ever will.
    He has the social proof of having done it.

    You hadn’t thought to mention his accomplishments when bringing him down to your level.

    You have trouble saying what you mean and meaning what you say.

  27. @Rollo

    I’ll note here that I disagree that Red Pill truths are stratagems in and of themselves.

    Why isn’t the truth about Hypergamy a stratagem? Oh, you mean that RP truth is about discovering how hypergamy controls women’s sexual drives and Game strategems are devices that men may concoct which rely on men’s understanding of hypergamy.

  28. Understanding that ovulatory shift influences women’s sexual desires and proceptivity to more direct, masculine Alpha sexual dominance is a factor in Hypergamy – That is Red Pill awareness.

    Using this awareness to cater a Game approach and calibration for that knowledge is a stratagem.

  29. Strategem does not equal observable objective truth.

    stratagem = a way of managing an observable objective truth to achieve a desired outcome.

  30. “If he were an American Footballer, he’s benched far more weight than you or I ever will.”

    Q.E.D.

    “You hadn’t thought to mention his accomplishments when bringing him down to your level.”

    You referred to my reference to his accomplishment. He could be extremely useful to me if I could bring him up to my level, and he himself has brought up that he would like to do that, but if he can’t acknowledge that he needs to do the work to get there, there is where he will never get.

  31. @Anon01, I probably should add the caveat that Game First, deeper understanding of Red Pill Later is something Owen used to prioritize in his early days. You’re right, now he’s far more about mindset and following the Tony Robbins profit model.

    My point in this essay is that I think there needs to be a more balanced approach. Neither Game nor Red Pill should come at the expense of the other.

  32. If you are dealing with an inordinately large number of shit tests you need to ask yourself why

    Is she particularly stubborn?

    Is your frame weak?

    Transitioning from beta to more alpha seems to cause the greatest number of shit tetst.

  33. “Confidence is the result of having real, actionable options, and/or the self-understanding that a man’s past, provable, successes mean he can regenerate new options for himself.”

    Perfect.

    Summer starts, I drive the older ones around for job interviews. Adolescent full time works is impossible…unless they cobble a couple jobs. In 30″ they both have 4 interviews as waiters, dishwashers, factotum.

    The 14 y.o. Is concerned that the schedules might conflict, wants to train for football, employers might balk.

    Me: Look, son. Your looking at this bass ackwards. YOU ARE THE PRIZE. Stop thinking you are working for them. Try thinking they have the privilege of employing you…until they fuck it up. You need them less than they you…why would x be buying you two kids root beers when you walk in? (True)

    Let’s not complicate this, son, choose the best full time (my only condition) configuration that these many employers will give you…to fit your schedule. It’ll take only two jobs, just watch. They’re not advertising for help because they’re awash with competent help. You show up, finish the job, have strong work history, boy. You two are a restaurant manager’s wet dream.
    YOU ARE THE PRIZE.

  34. LOL even on my way out I am stronger then the average 30 year old man

    Which is more of a slam on the typical 30 year old dude

  35. Also dudes in the NFL and generally mid level strong. Strength is part of the job, and a very useful part but still only a part

  36. “Which is more of a slam on the typical 30 year old dude”

    Exactly.

    “Also dudes in the NFL and generally mid level strong.”

    And there was a time when they were actually advised to stay away from the weight room.

  37. Rollo: “Neither Game nor Red Pill should come at the expense of the other.”

    I go one further, they’re codependent.

    Rollo: “I say that because Frame in a larger perspective isn’t something a man can compartmentalize and make specific from one arena in his life and not in another.”

    Gestalt psychology, no?

  38. “…women eventually want to presume that a man is implying a more long term monogamy at some point”

    Baited breath waiting for the “J’accuse! Rollo’s going all Roosh! He’s soft-selling monogamy now! Stay PUA deft and the hotties will flock!”

  39. @EhIntellect

    He’s not. He’s saying what he’s always been saying. Female sexuality shifts around and women have a frame of their own and getting what you want out of them is knowing what that frame is so you can represent the aspects of it that benefit where YOU are in life. As in, from YOUR Frame.

    “…women eventually want to presume that a man is implying a more long term monogamy at some point”

    Yep, once they reach around 30 or so.

  40. “LOL even on my way out I am stronger then the average 30 year old man”

    My 12 year old daughter is stronger than your average 30 YO man these days. She probably knows how to use more power tools than most of them too. Sad state of affairs.

  41. Ehintellect I’m at the river my 15 y.o and his friends are fishing. I don’t know if I hear them boys say ( smash ) one more time I don’t know ! I’d smash that She is so smashable Oh yeh did you see her I’d smash that. Good grief ! They wake up in morning taking about poon and go to bed dreaming about it. But term smash is getting old. His mommy sent him back to live with me a few weeks ago. Said she can’t handle him no more. Being dis respectful. Ehintellect boys stay Alfa until the system beats it out of them

  42. “Confidence with his career, family life, friends, his status and confidence in understanding the base nature of women from a Red Pill aware, and how to use it to his advantage, are really all aspects of a strong Frame control.”

    “The idea is that if you feel like you need to be indirect or communicate on women’s terms, or women’s preferred form of communication, you are surrendering to women’s meta-frame.”

    “We often repeat that women require masculine dominance from men; I would offer that this dominance should be the result of a man owning his Frame and genuinely being in control of the ‘world’ he expects a woman to voluntarily enter. That makes sense.”

    All relevant to me…

  43. SFC Ton
    “Transitioning from beta to more alpha seems to cause the greatest number of shit tetst.”

  44. Stuffinbox let’s just let that word disappear Smashing got to go ! Sick of it. I’d rather gut a stinking ass wild boar than hear bunch teenage boys talking about smashing and not a one of every got a they finger wet

  45. I’m noticing more and more that comments from guys on game and red pill boards are coming from a position of fear.

    Guys are discovering game out of fear: fear of loss mostly.

    It’s anecdotal but when I first came into this community nearly 8 years ago the mindset was one of either hurt or curiosity.

    Is this because a new generation of guys hasn’t yet reached that point of needing game or a Rwd Pill mindset?

    Or is it that ignorance is bliss and the Feminine Imprrative is so dominant in a young guy’s upbringing that they’re now afraid…afraid of loss…of being accused as sexist afraid of failure?

  46. “Is this because a new generation of guys hasn’t yet reached that point of needing game or a Rwd Pill mindset?”

    Every man needs to develop game and Red Pill mindset from no later than when he begins to develop self consciousness.

    “Or is it that ignorance is bliss and the Feminine Imprrative is so dominant in a young guy’s upbringing that they’re now afraid…afraid of loss…of being accused as sexist afraid of failure?”

    They are beaten puppies.

  47. @Keith

    Just kidding but seriously at least these young fishermen find the opposite sex attractive,so they aren’t totally fucked.

    It reminds me of,walking the dog,the tube snake boogie,shagging,scroggin,gettin some backbone and hooking up. In reality with today’s gen of girls being raised as something special while the boys are put to the side(can’t control him) “smashing” is an apt description of the frame shift and consequential intercourse that goes with it.

  48. I Hate the navel gazing that goes on about “who’s meta frame are we in women’s or men’s”. Because ultimately getting a woman into your bed puts the philosophy into practice.

    At a higher level of philosophy we red pill types have basically quit philosophizing about women and actually started to bed them. In the process what was previously thought about how women worked in a modern feminist influenced society was discovered to be wrong.

    I once met a Billionaire, a man that many would recognize. He began to speak at the function I was at. And next to me a woman in her mid twenties a 9, was looking at the Billionaire with rapt attention. And further she twirled her hair absentmindedly the WHOLE 20 minutes of the Billionaire’s speech. This Billionaire was older and not much to look at. So I was curious, after the speech I asked the 20 something what she thought of the speech. She said she thought the Billionaire spoke wonderfully. When I asked about the theme Mr Billions kept mentioning in his talk. The 20 something just looked at me blankly. I kidded her with a shoulder bump and said “you zoned out didn’t you”. I suppose she had had a few drinks that night because she blushed and said, ” I was thinking about what his life must be like, how wonderful it would be to do anything you want…”. Um hmm I just bet you were wondering about HIS life. Actually I bet she was fantasizing about HER being able to experience HIS money and HIS life.

    It’s cliche but the groupings of men by women go into: no go (ugly poor), fun zone (poor but good looking), marriage material (rich). And that’s all there is folks.

    The meta frame is all about personal resources that will entice a woman into your bed so you can make children with her. All that Red Pill does is fuzz the game a bit making the above groupings more fluid… potentially just for a limited time.

    So as to which meta frame we are in… it’s not a women’s or a man’s it’s a MONEY FRAME. Just quit fooling yourselves.

  49. A vast majority of men will never, ever be wealthy. If men in significant numbers were wealthy, ” wealth ” would cease to have meaning to a great extent.

    The majority of those that achieve wealth are basically lazy, because money .

    For many men with wealth, it actually causes them more problems with females than it solves.

    Without red pill knowledge these wealthy troubled men would know no other way to even deal with women once the thrill of your cash wears off and you start to look ripe for fleecing.

    Pussy is free, but hey, you can purchase all you’d like. No knowledge or skill or even masculinity required.

    Shortcuts are not a strategy for long term satisfaction, growth, or understanding. Just because you rode a cab to the finish line, it doesn’t make you a marathon winner.

    Fiat currency. Greatest trick the devil ever pulled.

    That’s why the pool boy is ass fucking the rich dudes chick.

  50. @rugby11

    LAWL what wunderful noose, errr I mean news. This means there will be a return of the cunts to the watering holes back to play the scratch-off with the local crop once more.

    LOVE thermodynamics.

    Muahahahahahhahahaa!!!!

  51. @Keith “tuffinbox let’s just let that word disappear Smashing got to go ! Sick of it. I’d rather gut a stinking ass wild boar than hear bunch teenage boys talking about smashing and not a one of every got a they finger wet”

    Why don’t you tell them that Keith? “Talk is cheap! I find that those who talk the most, do the least. How about you boys go engage some girls instead of pretending that talking about it actually gets you closer.” Some shaming will do them some good and probably shut them up a bit.

  52. I don’t like Mike Tyson, but I did admire the way he handled an NPR interview yesterday morning. This is something, I’m sure, he has done a lot with the FI, its orbiters.

    He was promoting his book about D’Amato. The interviewer predictably had to ask him about his rape conviction—words to the effect what do you have to say about your feelings about this crime you committed. Tyson criticized the interviewer saying that it was more than 25 years ago, and does he call that doing this job. I couldn’t find a transcript of the inverview, but they did quote this statement in an article found on the NPR site under /mike-tysons-new-book-memorial-man-who-made-him-champion:

    “In his book, Tyson writes, “Cus made me feel that hurting people was noble.” That made us wonder about some of the lessons his old trainer taught him, so we ask him about the rape conviction. “I didn’t ever rape that woman,” Tyson says. “That’s just something I got arrested for. … They gave me opportunities to admit that I raped this person and let me go, but I would never do that. I couldn’t live with myself doing that.” (Tyson has long maintained his innocence.)”

    So, even in a case where a man is convicted of a crime and serves time, he is still Jean-Valjean-ed more that 25 year later.

  53. In the meta frame of women there is a convention of keeping a man alienated form other man based on the assumption that one man has to be inherently the enemy of other. For example when you start treating a elder woman in your family according to the red pill she will say warn you to not behave with her in the red pill way as it will anger the elder men in the family against you. This is her defence statement to hide the truth that the beta elder males should not get to know her secrets. If you tell them that it means her end of power over them which she has created through lies.

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