A comment from Softek gets us started today:
My friend was telling me the other night how seeing multiple women “isn’t worth it.”
I’ve heard that more than once from more than one of my friends.
And how “living with the guilt and shame” and “hating themselves” was destroying their lives….
Very hard schema to break out of when it’s been imprinted on you. My own father self-proclaims to be “in favor of the damsels in distress,” including his recent, unquestionable defense of my friend’s mom, who divorced his dad after 35 years of marriage.
My dad didn’t even question her motives for a second and after she spent the evening hanging out with my mom and him, and told them the supposed “real” reasons she got a divorce, my dad automatically cut contact with the guy and again proclaimed his belief that men should protect all “damsels in distress.”
He’s even taken shots at me when my girlfriend’s been over, clearly siding with her and telling her things like “Keep him in line” and “Straighten him out” and calling me an idiot and scolding me if I don’t pull her chair out for her or put her coat on for her when she stands up.
No doubt, my self sabotaging of a clear opening for a hookup with an HB8 23 year old has been influenced by all of this. I didn’t realize how Beta I was until I actually got into a relationship.
I didn’t even know I HAD these programs because I was incel before, and had a couple one night stands that never developed into anything more. I also didn’t even know my DAD had these programs until he started doing shit like actually scolding me in front of my girlfriend and instructing her to “train me” and things like that.
To be honest I was kind of in shock that my own father would think like that. It felt like he was turning on me and it pissed me off. Even in a small way, to let his Blue Pill conditioning get in the way of his relationship with his own son — that really got to me, and not in a good way. I felt like my dad is supposed to be on my side, and to see him treating her better than he treats me and having conversations with her and helping her work out her finances and giving her career advice and all that while he won’t even give me the time of day….
….simply, it’s eye-opening. It’s tough to truly go Red Pill when everyone around you, including your own father/family members/friends are Blue Pill, and especially when they’re an active, regular part of your life, not just a figment of your imagination.
But there is no other way.
Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. Softek’s father’s reflexive responses are endemic of men who are Alpha White Knights. Their reactions are behaviorally Alpha, but their reasoning is founded in their investments in Blue Pill conditioning. The usual schema revolve around an attempt to display higher value by identifying with and qualifying for women whom they presuppose have default authority and correctness above men in general.
This then manifests as an exaggerated AMOGing of any guy who would not affirm his investments in that Blue Pill ego-investment. So you get a guy who blusters like Softek’s Dad at Red Pill awareness – it’s both an opportunity to prove value as a White Knight and a resistance against any truths that would challenge his Blue Pill ego.
In my own life I’ve known several men who anyone in the ‘sphere would objectively call Alpha. Their default is to action, dominance, authority and control of whatever life puts in front of them. They handle their shit, they own their business ventures, they have all the Dark Triad traits you might expect from a guy like this – but put them in a social setting with a girl and they go as Beta as any Blue Pill guy you’ll ever know. Their Blue Pill conditioning predisposes them to compartmentalize this aspect of their personality to effectively put their dominant personality to the use of the Feminine Imperative.
Dangerous White Knights
Maybe I’m the only guy who watched both seasons of Daredevil on Netflix, but if you watch the first season where they go into the origin and character of Wilson Fisk (Kingpin) this is exactly the type of guy I’m talking about. Wildly Alpha, wildly unstable, but still in control of his empire. Put a woman in his life and he transitions all of that Alpha energy to essentially worshiping that woman. In fact, this prioritizing of women above his own interests is the motivation for his empire building. These are the Alpha White Knights who channel that Alpha energy to making his Blue Pill idealisms a reality for any woman who fits his ideal.
And when that Blue Pill ideal reveals itself to be a fantasy – or God forbid, a Red Pill aware guy should take this fantasy away from him intentionally or not – you will see him self destruct, and likely take either that woman, that Red Pill guy, or both along with him.
That’s one type of Blue Pill Alpha. Another is the guy who is Alpha in one context, but Beta in another. These are the guys I describe when I talk about my military friends who’ve faced live ammo being fired at them by people intent on killing them who hold up like nails and get their job done while commanding other men. Put them in a domestic situation or a position where they have to fall back on their Blue Pill conditioning in dealing with women and they’ll defer automatically to the Frame of their wives without a thought. When their wives up and leave them, these are some of the first men to swallow a bullet by their own hand.
Again, this is an Alpha who’s never been awakened to his Blue Pill conditioning. Say even one marginally critical word about women in general and they’re the first in line to kick your ass. But they’re also the most likely to self destruct when their Blue Pill idealism is challenged or crushed.
A lot gets made about the status of ‘Paper Alphas’, but I’m beginning to think term is a bit in error. I’m dropping this here today because I think there’s a misunderstanding about how Alpha energy is channeled with respect to a guy being Red Pill aware, and a guy who is still plugged into the feminine-primary Matrix and at the mercy of how women (and other men) will exploit his Blue Pill ego-investments. In the manosphere we tend to conflate Alpha with Red Pill, but as I always say, Alpha is a mindset and not representative of whether that man is in fact ‘woke’ to his conditions and manipulations.
When I watched how the Marvel writers handled the character of Wilson Fisk I got chills because I have personally counseled Blue Pill, but predominantly Alpha, guys who’ve stabbed the new boyfriends of their ex-girlfriends because he was perceived as the catalyst to the destruction of his Blue Pill ideal – union with his ONEitis girlfriend.
I’m emphasizing this because I think it’s important for Red Pill aware men to understand the dangers of being perceived as the antithesis of these men’s ego-investments in Blue Pill idealism. This may take the form of him just despising you for revealing uncomfortable truths to him with your own presence and lifestyle, or it may be him pinning his failures to consolidate his Blue Pill ideals to you and wanting to eliminate both you and the truth you represent.
I’m sorry if this is a bit sobering, but it needs to be said. As most readers know, I consider Alpha and Beta abstract terms; they are placeholders for concepts, thus, it is entirely possible for a largely Alpha man to be thoroughly invested in his Blue Pill conditioning. Likewise, it is also possible for more Beta men to be some of the most Red Pill aware men you’re likely to meet. It’s when a Beta man is ego-invested in the Blue Pill that he’s most to be pitied, while a Red Pill aware Alpha is likely to be the most celebrated. But that’s not to say the Red Pill and Alpha, or the Blue Pill and Beta are mutually exclusive concepts.
Is Provisioning Inherently a Characteristic of a Beta Mindset?
In this week’s post the proposition came up that any provisioning was inherently a Beta trait. I’ve read this before and not just on my blog, but also coming from both the MGTOW and the PUA sides of the fence. The idea is that any form of monogamy and/or provisioning for an LTR girlfriend (and I would count a live-in arrangement as provisioning), a wife and any kids (prospectively) is itself evidence of a Beta mindset.
I think the problem with this presumption rests in defining what the act of provisioning means both an Alpha and a Beta mindset. For both, this depends on their approach to their primary sexual strategies and reconciling it with the eventual necessity of his own parental investment in raising children, and/or maintaining relational Frame (or not) within a monogamy that at least promotes the wellbeing of any children.
As a reference here, I’m going to link Myth of the Good Guy to give a bit of perspective in this.
While it’s true that lower SMV men generally, necessarily, opt for a sexual strategy of primary investment in one mate (via provisioning) and higher SMV men can afford a sexual strategy of lower investment while seeking more sexual opportunities, those strategies are not necessarily reflective of each man’s mindset. As I mentioned in the beginning here, it is entirely possible for a subjectively Alpha man to subscribe to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset and vice versa for Beta men becoming Red Pill aware.
So yes, provisioning can be Beta if that provisioning (and what it took to achieve it) is the result of an effort to secure the sustained sexual interests of a single woman, as motivated by his perceived necessity to invest himself as I mentioned above for a low SMV man. However, if you have a high SMV guy who’s provisioning capacity is the byproduct of his Alpha mindset (or nature if you prefer) and not the result of his sexual strategy to build it to invest in any single woman, is that guy’s provisioning inherently a Beta characteristic?
We’ve had an interesting discussion about this in the last comment thread, and In the interests of full disclosure here, I’m still on the fence about this concept. I’ll have a forthcoming post about mindset soon.
Provisioning is certainly a value added aspect to a guy who a woman sees as an Alpha sex prospect already, and not a necessary a prerequisite for fucking him, but it’s not a disadvantage (being Beta) if that Alpha guy also has means, affluence, status, looks, etc. That said, and I’ve related this before, some of the most memorable sex experiences I’ve ever had were when I was an unemployed semi-pro musician in the late 80s-early 90s with almost zero means, but was somehow able to bang over 40 women then.
Provisioning is not a prerequisite for any man with Game, but is it inherently Beta? Possibly, when a guy has the Blue Pill mindset that makes him believe in the Relational Equity fallacy and he subscribes to the Blue Pill conditioned idea that he’s inherently lower SMV than ANY woman (like Softek’s Dad), thus he must improve his odds of successfully breeding by being a “good provider”. And as I, and anyone in the manosphere, will relate this old books providerhood is fast becoming an obsolete sexual strategy for Beta men.
This is, I think, the hesitation that most guys wanting to avoid the stink of ‘Beta Provider’ will argue for. But is a nominally Alpha guy, who has excess means and resources being “Beta” by providing for his wife & family? If that man’s dominant personality is ‘Alpha’ does this predispose women (or his wife) to rationalize his provisioning as an Alpha trait, or is it just an endearing (positive), comforting Beta trait / behavior that solidifies her attraction (if not arousal) to him?
I don’t think that the act of provisioning itself is inherently Beta or Alpha, rather it’s the mindset and status of that guy that makes it so. What do we call a an Alpha with ample means who refuses to adequately provide for his wife and/or kids? What do we call a Beta who’s based his life and marriage on his capacity to provide once he’s lost his job? Why do women statistically look down on men who don’t provide in equal or greater measure to their own contributions? Despite all the equalist boilerplate beliefs to the contrary, why do women feel little or no attraction to a non-provisioning house-husband? If provisioning were a net Beta trait why is its absence a source of decreased attraction for men?
I should also add that this perception of whether a man is Alpha or Beta in his provisioning is subjective to whatever phase of maturity a woman find herself in, and is modified by her own necessitousness – which, as has been argued in the ‘sphere ad infinitum, has become increasingly less dependent on men. It’s no coincidence that back in the early 90s for me, the women I was banging were largely girls in their SMV peak years (21-24) or they we’re the occasional cougars of the time who were already divorced and still reasonably attractive enough to pass the boner test for me. My capacity to provision for either of these demographic of women made little difference to my sex appeal, but for different reasons.
Roissy even covers this aspect of women’s sexual prioritization in The Difficulty of Gaming Women by Age Bracket:
31 to 34 year olds
In some ways, women in the 31-34 age range are the toughest broads to game. (By “toughest”, it is meant “most time consuming”.) It’s counterintuitive, yes, but there are factors at work besides her declining beauty which mitigate against the easy, quick lay. For one, it is obviously harder to meet single 31-34 year old women than it is to meet single younger women. Marriage is still a pussy-limiting force to contend with for the inveterate womanizer, but Chateau apprentices are hard at work battling the scourge of mating market disturbances caused by the grinding and churning of the marriage machine.
But the bigger reason 31-34 year olds are harder to game than any other age group of women has to do with the wicked nexus of entitlement and self-preservation that occurs at this age in women. When you combine a disproportionate sense of entitlement fueled by years of feminism, steady paychecks and promotions, and cheerleading gay boyfriends with suspicions of every man’s motives and a terrible anxiety of being used for a sexual fling sans marriage proposal, you get a venom-spitting malevolent demoness on guard against anything she might perceive as less than total subjugation to her craving for incessant flattery and princess pedestaling.
Note that Chateau guests aren’t necessarily complaining. A harder-to-game 33 year old is kind of like getting bumped down from a Honda Civic rental but driving off the lot with the consolation prize of a Ferrari.
Listen to any man who is good with women and they will tell you the same thing:
“I have an easier time bedding and dating 23 year olds than I do 33 year olds.”
While I do concur with the assessment about women’s exaggerated sense of entitlement, I would also argue that this difficulty is a result of women’s prioritizing long-term security (emotional and provisional) as part of their sexual strategy reprioritizations that come in the wake of their Epiphany Phase. Ergo, this would explain the ease in gaming women pre and post Epiphany Phase. Provisioning and long term security are low sexual priorities for these demographics of women.
But does that make a capacity for provisioning inherently a Beta trait? I think it’s easy to misconstrue that capacity as Beta, because provisioning is a high-value attribute that is expected from Beta men according to their own sexual strategy. Provisioning is associated with Betas because it is integral to their sexual strategy, and also part of the Blue Pill plan for which women are hoping to fulfill at a point in their maturity when they are subjectively at their most necessitous.
What do you think?
It is illegal to let behavior totally follow the natural alpha mindset. Provisioning is usually beta bribery for sex but not always. This is dependent on intent.
@Max from Oz:
As well as what Sentient said, another step in getting your head straight is to stop calling her a plate. It’s clear she isn’t a plate. She’s your girlfriend. If you want plates, go out and get some damn plates.
@Tim
I predict at some time in the future,with what you have related about yourself,if you don’t lay down and die,survivor syndrome coupled with compassion will put you in the lead position.
How you choose to deal with that position is up to you.Go figure.
The biggest problem I had with provisioning in the past was in thinking that a woman would appreciate and respect the things I had done for her. That I was in some way building up a reserve of good will.
I now know how incredibly wrong that is.
I will never again spend more money on a woman than she does on me.
@ I.H You need to examine your motives, why did you think spending money on a woman would build up a reserve of good will? Have you read Rollos post on Relational equity? Also are you familiar with briffaults law? You should start with these. You sound real butthurt “I won’t spend a penny more on a woman than she spends on me” boo fuckin hoo, it’s not fair! You are a fucking man not a woman the burden of performance is yours to bear stop thinking like a bitch. Any money I spend on dating women I consider gone… Read more »
Rollo That said, and I’ve related this before, some of the most memorable sex experiences I’ve ever had were when I was an unemployed semi-pro musician in the late 80s-early 90s with almost zero means, but was somehow able to bang over 40 women then. Thought experiment time… what if in the late 80’s you were a musical God? http://i.imgur.com/q3XqAKb.jpg Who is paying these bar tabs? Limos, jets? Would any of that “provisioning” matter to the girl? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlKJiZ8ymM4 This whole matter of “provisioning” is shaped by two things – if it is from a fame which is reduced ultimately to… Read more »
So at the expense of repeating what others have said here (because I didn’t read some, I.e. Most of the comments) or that someone above thinks that *all surgeons* are blue pill pussies with women whilst still being kings of their castle at work I.e. Alpha, I thought I’d add my two English cents (which are rapidly becoming worthless with the exit of the UK from the EU). Provisioning I agree with you Rollo is not blue pill, red pill or alpha or beta. It is simply a mating strategy based on the ever increasing popular r/K theory. For a… Read more »
@The Surgeon, thank you, that’s an interesting counterpoint.
@Sentient: “Would any of that “provisioning” matter to the girl?” Those girls are not being “provisioned.” They’re scavenging. @The Surgeon: “. . . rapidly becoming worthless with the exit of the UK from the EU” Making me more inclined to exchange dollars for classic, bespoke British products, rather than Italian. Nottingham alone once supplied the free world with 90% of its bicycles, and the not so free world held them as the standard for their own markets. Markets shifting may be uncomfortable, but it does not imply destruction. Perhaps there is a Mercian in my future after all. And perhaps… Read more »
Another rejection buffer: staying in a crappy relationship because you don’t think it is worth the effort to do better.
How do you explain happy blue pill relationships? Are those women less hypergamous? Are those men more desirable and able to command desire? Or are those women older and wiser, knowing they are getting a good deal as their SMP depreciates?
KL
How do you explain happy blue pill relationships?
A balanced equation. Each side is getting what it believes it deserves.
An exchange of value. Why didn’t anybody think of that before?
Thanks for the replies fellas much appreciated. Max
“Blue Pill Alpha” I think it’s very easy to be Blue Pill as someone with a natural alpha personality, social status and physique, simply because you can get away with it. There will be enough women willing to fuck you, enough others competing and creating dread, most of your beta-behavior oder ideas will not matter enough to make you unsuccessful with women. Because of that you will never feel the need to really think about it, understand and learn. On top of it AMOGing is a totally natural behavior for someone like that. They’ll do it without even understanding what… Read more »
“But in todays world just fucking around ZFG is rarely a realistic plan to procreate.”
Unless you’re from the model city for the New Society. Works a treat there.
Once men don’t have to pay for it individually anymore it would indeed become the most viable strategy. Famous German feminist Alice Schwarzer actually demanded the government should pay for any children so women don’t have to run after individual men some 20 years ago.
And since I personally don’t like children at all und would never want to live with them, I actually like the idea…
“And since I personally don’t like children at all und would never want to live with them, I actually like the idea…”
Move to the model city: Detroit.
Of course it could be disastrous for society and civilization. No incentives for men to build something.
But then I think of the effects on the power-balance in marriages: No alimony makes it way easier for men to walk away, which is the key-power in any relationship. Women rarely think about needing the man for his money because there is no other safety. There is always someone to catch a women. But they care a lot if the man is powerful enough to walk away. I say: let’s fix the balance by empowering men to walk away.
lh
I say: let’s fix the balance by empowering men to walk away.
I agree… here is the key… repeat after me “alacadabrea!”… There, now YOU have the power…
Now walk away.
While cutting the losses is surely possible and at some point the best thing to do, there are still losses worth avoiding in the first place.
lh there are still losses worth avoiding in the first place. Agree. Loss of your personal agency pretty high up on that list… avoids a lot of other potential “losses” along the way. ________________________________________ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHVUSw4FTQU The fascinating Life Lessions short film in New York Stories (1988)… Have a watch… beta, blue pill, soft sugaring, white knighting, paper alpha, hypergamy… Alpha? Gadzooks! It has everything…. worth a watch [hang in there with Scorsese’s Scorseseism… with the camera – it’s only 45 minutes]… ahhh NYC in the 80’s… when most of the lofts in SOHO were like this, and Chinatown and Little… Read more »
” ahhh NYC in the 80’s… when most of the lofts in SOHO were like this, and Chinatown and Little Italy twice the size they are today… and real things were happening all around…”
Last time I was in the area, it seems Little Italy has been reduced to about 3 blocks. Soon it will be no more.
A really special time/place is going to be lost.
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NeL
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1Ng4
@pua was going out tonite to the latin dance club for first time, the black club for first time, and to the pub the cool musician guy I met on halloween works at, but got sick so putting that off till next week. still went out a bit earlier, but can’t really do to much. I think I’ll swing by the mall real quick in a bit, but I would rather rest so I will feel better and can go out tomorrow like I usually do. my voice does sound super cool though now, problem is I can’t say much… Read more »
Blax
A really special time/place is going to be lost
like 42nd Street… and Alphabet City… and…
@Hank @Blax
“yes, most of blacks who don’t vote hillary just won’t vote at all, but I still run into a surprising number that are voting trump”
Most the ones who aren’t super influenced by media are voting for trump………
@mersona @blax another thing worth noting is blax is from a huge city that is solidly democrat, whereas I live in a more rural area…so naturally there are going to be more blacks here that are less inclined to be democrats, and there is somewhat less pressure put on them by other blacks to conform to certain standard. it still happens here, I’ve talked to blacks about how they are republican but could never tell other blacks about it, but still its not as intense as it would be in like San Francisco or someshit. finally, its what you do… Read more »
@ hank Have I told you that you are the man lately? ” …since you are black and they are worried about being judged” Pro-tip, 90% of black people I have ever known in my life give no shits at all about being judged. Including myself. Lol. ” finally, its what you do when you are in the voting booth that counts, not anything else. And I think a lot of blacks are gonna vote trump in secret, but tell everyone else they voted Hillary, or Stein, or they didn’t vote at all.” this could happen, although the chances are… Read more »
” Most the ones who aren’t super influenced by media are voting for trump………”
Nah. Not hardly.
For the AA community, Trump is not new. He’s been making headlines coast to coast for decades concerning his… attitudes concerning ” us “, for lack of a better term. The rest of America is just getting acquainted with the Donald.
@ Sentient
” like 42nd Street… and Alphabet City… and…”
Lol. I mean, nothing against Disney and all, but I still mourn the loss of the 42nd street I used to know.
Ditto for Alphabet City. I can’t recognize anything there anymore outside of the architecture.
Progress. I guess.
I think that provisioning motivated by mostly by a desire to attract a mate is indicative of a bluepill worldview, or a beta mindset. If one is productive and wealthy enough that he just so happens to afford certain women the opportunity to share in the fruits of his success, then this man could very will be a redpilled motherfucker with an alpha mindset. Moreover, if a man still has the desire to raise a family after making himself his mental point of origin, the provisioning for his family just makes sense since his family is an extension of himself,… Read more »
@Blax
“Nah. Not hardly.”
Nah. Not Hardly
“For the AA community, Trump is not new. He’s been making headlines coast to coast for decades concerning his… attitudes concerning ” us “, for lack of a better term. The rest of America is just getting acquainted with the Donald.”
You can only speak for the AA community where you are….and im sure there’s more black people here in the state I live bby boy
@Mersonia
” You can only speak for the AA community where you are….and im sure there’s more black people here in the state I live bby boy”
Oookkkaaayyy then.
For the record though, I’m not land-locked and I’m pretty in tune because, well, I’ve been black practically my whole life.
But I concede. You are right. You ” win “.
Back to the op.
” At just over 3.5 million, New York State has by far the largest Black population of any state in the nation. The vast majority of African Americans in the state live in New York City and its surrounding counties. In the rest of the state commonly referred to as Upstate New York, African Americans live almost entirely in urban areas and mostly within city limits. These areas are mid-sized mostly manufacturing based cities such as Buffalo, Syracuse, and Rochester. African American concentrations can also be found in smaller cities and towns in or near the Hudson Valley between New… Read more »
..hank would really dig it here. Lol.
http://www.girlschase.com/content/practical-female-psychology-pt-i-why-i-wrote-book
well good decision on my part since I lost my voice lol @blax For the record though, I’m not land-locked and I’m pretty in tune because, well, I’ve been black practically my whole life. yeah, except for the two years when you lived as an elderly white woman, but no one really talks about that… ..hank would really dig it here. Lol. visit sure, live there ehhhh…went to NYC years ago and there are way too many people and colossal buildings around. its like you are in some deep ocean trench. makes me claustrophobic. a place like san fran is… Read more »
I want to have a bunch of healthy children. If I want them healthy I must not let them be raised by a single mom. Nor raised by a cuck. The only option is to raise them together with their mother (or mothers – I think that multiple wives would be ideal but I admit I did not dare to initiate the process yet). So my way of life is a traditional family. I want my wife to be at home and take care for the children and do the housework. She can not do it if I don’t provide… Read more »
I’ll just leave these here.
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29757/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtDljeolZAg
(Posted Nov. 2.)
(Please take note of the effeminate SJWs’ voices and mannerisms)
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NeS
On-topic, sort of: I’m pretty sure the Pareto principle works the other way around as well in the mating market, which means that 20% of women get 80% of male resources.
@Blaximus:
I LOL’d at
“For the record though, I’m not land-locked and I’m pretty in tune because, well, I’ve been black practically my whole life.”
Michael Jackson, is that you?
P.S. I’m so sad MJ died early. He really could dance, good music too – top performer for sure.
A some time back I told the dudes on j4g that the best way for the GOP to capture more non White votes was to run on border controll and economic populism ( which also gets them larger then normally working class White votes). All three groups suffer the most with the problems generated by globalism and open borders. Now Trump is doing that, and polling better with blacks and hispanics then bush, mccain or romney. I’m not particularly intelligent but some problems and solutions are self evident When hilary wins NC, it will be damnyankees who deliver her the… Read more »
Stabbing someone over loosing a woman Betas snap and do shit like that all the time. probably dude to over valuing some hatchet wound. If you struggle to get laid, finally find a steady piece of ass then loose it…. well your likely to fall into that my life is ruined mental spiral. If you get laid regularly, you probably tend to value any individual hatchet wound a lot less. Is it really a big deal if your 5 whore stable got cut down to 4? Unless you have them bitches on the track, then your pissed because of the… Read more »
Bantering with one of my plates who tries to lure me into texting her by telling me she dreamed about me…we move on to the topic of Dracula and she quotes “I’ve moved over oceans of time to find you” and gets all tingly about gett oldman.
I read her text a few times and it hits me. It’s all in the delivery and context. Said in a confident, assertive way with firm eye contact that line oozes alpha.
Said in a nervous uncertain way and it comes off as needy and pedestalizing.
“It’s all in the delivery and context. Said in a confident, assertive way with firm eye contact that line oozes alpha.” In the previous thread I posted pictures of two cats. Both are in the alpha posture of Ready to Spring on a target. If they were humans and I were the target, I would know that the first cat did not represent a credible threat, that I would be able to deal with him without breaking a sweat. How do I know that? Because the cat knows its own threat level, has assessed mine relative to it based on… Read more »
You hit the nail on the head. It’s about the mindstate. If you’re providing because that’s one of your main strategies to attracting and keeping a woman, it’s beta.
I know for me and many others our goal is to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children. So with that being said, providing is absolutely necessary as we plan to not only breed with the best possible female, but to also raise the next generation of red pilled h’whytes.
@ surgeon
True, I was too broad. I’ll dial it back.
Wife tells me, “When I berate you, I’m appealing to my insecurities. We have a great marriage and I’m ruining it….I don’t even know who you are.”
Stabbing a guy for fucking your girl isn’t alpha. Jesus.
It basically means you were driven momentarily insane by her infidelity. Which spells oneitis and emotional dependence. It also means you’d lost value in here eyes which allowed it to happen in the first place.
You were probably thinking of stabbing a guy for hurting or endangering your girl, or something.
Basically society has evolved but human beings haven’t: in the good old days, all the men and women together would “provide” for the tribe in the sense of hunting and gathering food – men would have a greater role in hunting, building, and defending against predators for obvious reasons. Thus, provisioning in this sense is Alpha as it is a display of a man’s skills, strength, and genetic desirability. However, now that tribes no longer exist and a woman depends more or less on one man to provide entirely for her, provisioning is seen as more and more Beta. Women… Read more »
@Zoe
https://therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/
“I’d say in today’s society, not enough gratitude is expressed by women for provisioning.”
Hypergamy doesn’t care.
“Perhaps we should return to a more communal way of life?”
Hello, FI. Guess how we got where we are?
http://wp.me/p5MelF-1vv
@pua got sicker, but still gonna try and do some work today. worked out a stack for quick daygame. want to test it out. Was looking for that James Marshall clip on doing really fast day game, couldn’t find it, but ended up figuring it out anyway along with some other goodies. TL:DR is to focus on getting this down to 1 minute, and what I am trying to to is escalate very quickly to pump her buying temperature to get her to go off on an instatdate with me. My “Weren’t you at that party the other day?” is… Read more »
@Rollo thanks for the link – I totally agree, apologies if my earlier comment gave the wrong impression! Certainly in today’s day and age a child has the best shot at growing up psychologically healthy when raised by both a man and a woman in a secure environment. Trust me, my mother was very masculine and I was effectively raised by two men: it did not work out. But it’s important to have non-parental support too. In Scotland we don’t have much ‘community feel’ in the big cities and it’s something I’d like to see more of. Even if it’s… Read more »
@Rollo “The idea is that any form of monogamy and/or provisioning for an LTR girlfriend (and I would count a live-in arrangement as provisioning), a wife and any kids (prospectively) is itself evidence of a Beta mindset.” This is where the disconnect is happening. This is precisely NOT what they’re saying. You’re analyzing their paradigm from your paradigm and that’s what’s causing the confusion. Your model is that actions flow from mindset and therefore an alpha mindset will produce alpha behavior. Following that logic, behavior will be an inside view into a person’s mindset. Scray’s model is to decouple mindset… Read more »
@Kayos The only reason we can or even think to look at them separately is simply because guys like Scray went out and got results with shitty mindsets before he could change them. That’s why he can never reconcile the two because he knows his mindset now and what it was then. @all Blue pill alphas exist because there’s two types of blue pill. There’s pre 1980-ish shit that is blue pill + benevolent sexism. And then there’s modern shit that is blue pill + uber feminism. The first type of mindset results in many more alpha-ish behaviors. The second… Read more »
A note to Softek and the others trying to cut off or escape a BPD. My crazy ex about whom I have written about extensively and who I have cut off 20 months ago with complete no contact….has now tried a new tactic to gain my attention—she is throwing herself at a friend of mine at a party. I brought the guy out for years to our various socials that she comes out to. Recently she has started to ask him to dance, stare at him. He tells me about it. I’ve told him flat out that she’s using him… Read more »
Scray, Kayos
The only reason we can or even think to look at them separately is simply because guys like Scray went out and got results with shitty mindsets before he could change them. That’s why he can never reconcile the two because he knows his mindset now and what it was then.
There is a reason fake it forever is NOT a thing… LOL
Congrats on attaining the mindset… keep using it going forward. Because, like, you are…
Hint – effort, tribulation and breaking through are actions that develop the mindset…
decoupling mindset from action…
Step 1. Using PUA scripts = the development of conscious competence
Step 2. The realization that you are consciously competent => (produces) confidence and an alpha mindset
Step 3. An alpha mindset => unconscious competence
“An alpha mindset => unconscious competence”
To give you an idea how tightly bound your mindset is with your physical behavior and just what unconscious competence can really entail:
If you are an expert target shooter, when you pull the trigger your heart skips a beat so the vibration doesn’t throw off the shot.
The idea of guys being blue pill keeps coming up. And with it ascribing motivations to red pill aware guys that have different levels of Game (natural or learned). I believe this OP is a good set up for what Rollo might discuss in an essay about effective red pill mindset. Negative blue pill mindsets are brought up all the time. What about positive red pill mindsets and strategies? I don’t think the debate about “mindset” vs. “overt alpha behaviors” can bridge the divide over YSG’s in STR’s vs anyone in any relationship platform with LTR’s. It is too big… Read more »
“If you are an expert target shooter, when you pull the trigger your heart skips a beat so the vibration doesn’t throw off the shot.” At one time, I trained myself in target shooting handguns. I got to the level of Conscious Competence in Mastery of competition handgun target shooting. (With the caveat that KFG’s quote describes an unconsciously competent shooter.) In getting to my conscious competence stage, I came across a time when my mind actually wandered for slightly too many milliseconds between shots. (How the hell can that happen with six shots in five seconds?) And that was… Read more »
@sfj. It’s about intent. You can avoid flinching. But if you’re not clear In what you want it’s worse than flinching.
Yes.
Clear intent is in order.
Clear intent comes from clear mindset intent along with mastery of delivering that intent or being like a magician and demonstrating it.
And flinching is very detectable.
@Kayos “You’re analyzing their paradigm from your paradigm and that’s what’s causing the confusion.” Which is what I commented on at the 4:01 time stamp. And hence the call for a universal paradigm for Red Pill. “The only reason we can or even think to look at them separately is simply because guys like Scray went out and got results with shitty mindsets before he could change them. That’s why he can never reconcile the two because he knows his mindset now and what it was then.” In the short run. Then what? Sentient: “There is a reason fake it… Read more »
I know a natural alpha who got sperm jacked specifically because she wanted his genetics. She is independently wealthy and has no intention of getting him for support. His blue pill mindset blinded him to how duplicitous women can be when they want what they want. Now he has a kid he will probably only get to see on occasion, if she lets him. He has no legal rights to speak of.
I realize this is a bit tangential to this post, but it is one more way a blue pill alpha can get hurt.
Rugby linked to some Joseph W. South articles on GirlsChase. http://www.girlschase.com/content/female-basic-conflict-understanding-women-s-ambivalence (the following is all quoted from the linked article. I didn’t blockquote it because the bolded parts wouldn’t show up in Rollo’s current formatting. This is Red Pill and Rollo 101. (Also Blaximus 101). But Joseph W. South, just distills the concepts well in good writing style: Quote: “THE LOVER-PROVIDER DICHOTOMY Throughout history, and even to this day, women have typically been condemned for any expression of their natural sexuality. In addition, women naturally have a strong survival instinct, which is intrinsically linked to getting pregnant and child care.… Read more »
Regarding the field reports
How do you remember what was said? Who did what and when?
Last night I fired a driver, hit up a Greek diner afterward, pulled this chick on candy apple 883, got on my electra glide, took her to the empty truck and banged her in the cab.
Couldn’t recall enough details to do one of those field reports if you paid me.
Alfa Beta Red pill Blue pill. When something goes bump in the nite it doesn’t matter if you are a bb cuckhold or AF with two side girls your still gonna get up go check it out for the female in bed beside you. Your still the disposable sex. This discussion about witch comes first the chicken or the egg The mind set or the action. It is enteresting but is it really of matter Only results matter. It like you are debating ( I think their for I am ) or ( I am their for I must think… Read more »
Disposable sex?
I’m still amazed at how some men define maleness, and how they see themselves in the sexual” market ” , and in the world.
My oldest brother pulls down six figures, is extroverted and forceful in stating his opinions (some might say “overbearing and obnoxious”), and used to never miss a chance to AMOG on me, his youngest brother. He runs with a crowd of millionaire businessman types, doing “alpha” shit like going on trophy hunting trips for vacation. Drives a ridiculously huge dually extended cab pickup truck that probably burn 20 gallons just pulling out of the driveway. At first glance, he is definitely the more “alpha” and successful of the two of us. I’ve never made a fraction of the money he… Read more »
Blaximus I did not say I was disposable. I kinda like myself. But females see men as disposable. If you fuck up and get killed a women will replace you sometimes at your own funeral. Fuck up and get injured and she will shit test you for fitness. When I make a comment I’m not trying to be politically correct with OMGs or YSGs and I’m not trolling either I really don’t have a dog in the fight. But I see both sides in these comments. I think men do and women talk and action is more important than the… Read more »
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@Keith: Action stems from the mental…
@sentient “There is a reason fake it forever is NOT a thing… LOL” ya i wonder if someone addressed that already. oh yeah See Scray last thread “now, in the REAL WORLD, a mindset that is diametrically opposed to action just won’t happen often…one will give way to the other. what matters though, most, is the external manifestation — i.e. behavior. adopting a new mindset can help with those externals, and inner game is very valuable to that end. but again, to that end. to the extent that it helps you display and behave in the way you need to… Read more »
My two cents: I believe what defined alfa is both the firmware/software and the hardware. A super computer running a fked up OS is crap. A super OS running on a pentium 1 (is there such a thing?) is useless. Alpha is not a demographic, it is a mindset. Firmware. Sure. But there are serious costraints when you are two feet tall. (Exagerating the height costraint for effect but still…) A natural alpha comes with alpha firmware and hardware. You encounter alpha and you are left with no doubts. What we are talking about here is beta firmware installed onto… Read more »
The blue pill alpha I believe as a result of social conditioning is more the normal condition than the exception. Looking back,being raised with 2 older sisters there were rules,always knock first,never hit a girl,first rites to the bathroom,they were deferred the most comfort and better arrangements from the beginning. It stands to reason that the more alpha or masculine a boy was the more he was taught to change his behavior around females.If a guy could throw a fast ball the first time she closed her eyes and got it in the nose his ass was grass,so he learned… Read more »
@Sentient “There is a reason fake it forever is NOT a thing… LOL” Agreed. Everybody agrees on this important point and nobody is suggesting that it is a healthy thing to aspire to. This is not what we are arguing about. @SJF “Scray knows this mindset now. Would he want to go back to what it was then and still get consistent sexual strategy results? With proper form and improper mindset? What is the point of arguing that mindset doesn’t even matter. For function over form? Oh right, for short term strategy. Sounds legit. Or that beta traits are negative… Read more »
“also personally I would prefer to drop the beta/alpha labelling of actions (because people get butthurt at those words and interpret them as value judgements) and simply label them as +/- sexual attraction instead…” You saying that marriage is a net MINUS bro? You saying I can’t attract my wife BRO? Last night I fucked my wife for the 1 billionth and 1 billionth +1 times… How does that fit into your negative view of marriage? What do you know about LTRs? You’re just an immature PUA. If I saw you in the club I’d net minus your head from… Read more »
@Kayos
Great posts dude, very well summarized!
Now let’s see how many times you will have to re-state the same things in order to be understood here, like scray or yareally hehehe
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@stuffinthebox
“Looking back,being raised with 2 older sisters there were rules,always knock first,never hit a girl,first rites to the bathroom,they were deferred the most comfort and better arrangements from the beginning.”
Lol. Thanks for the walk down memory lane! I had three older sisters and one 8 years older would routinely sit on me and spit on my face then try to suck it back in before it broke off. Man, in retrospect that was funny stuff.
There were epic fist-fight battles until I was big enough, then guess what? It immediately stopped.
@ cheupez I like the it. Natural alphas have Alpha hardware/Alpha firmware, you encounter Alpha and you have no doubts. Alpha hardware – your body how physically imposing is your physique and how masculine are your features. We may not have control of our height and natural body shape ectomorph/ mesomorph/endomorph or our facial features but most men with hard work in the gym will be able to get into the top 20% given how lazy most men are. So no excuses get to it. In this category I’m lucky enough to have been born with mainly Alpha hardware 6ft1… Read more »
If you follow Scray’s logic the result is that actions by themselves have meaning. If actions have meaning by themselves, then it follows that some actions will be associated with betas and some will be associated with alphas. How do we decide that? Hypergamy, because that’s the only objective judge of alpha and beta behavior. Provisioning satisfies the BB side of hypergamy and the action is classified as such. How do we decide that? Hypergamy, because that’s the only objective judge of alpha and beta behavior. Right… here you agree with me. The Arbiter decides whether an action is Alpha… Read more »
ANY provisioning offered in any way as a barter or bribe for sex is beta mindset. Provisioning in such a context is always a response to the woman’s offer of sex or her implied offer of sex. The woman is in control from the onset because she establishes the frame. This exchange is the most common and prevailing “setup” in our society. Alpha provisioning occurs only when the female clearly understands that it can be discontinued or severely limited with or without notice and with or without reason. Alpha provisioning occurs when the man provides because he wants to for… Read more »
@kfg To give you an idea how tightly bound your mindset is with your physical behavior and just what unconscious competence can really entail: If you are an expert target shooter, when you pull the trigger your heart skips a beat so the vibration doesn’t throw off the shot. And the expert shooter is not even aware of this…he’s unconscious of it. an example from my own experience…when I dance, I can lead a beginning woman dancer through patterns on a crowded dance floor, keeping rhythm to the music, avoiding collisions, all the while chatting with her, reading her signs… Read more »
Remember that movie, As Good as it Gets? It occurs to me that part 2 should be made. The plot should be the Helen Hunt character just isn’t attracted to Jack any more and can’t figure out why.
Alpha firmware- Confidence, mental point of origin, DGAF attitude, courage/boldness, aggression. This area is where most men not born natural alphas can make the most improvements by developing an Alpha mindset. Thank God for all those fights I was in as a kid that caused me to be willing to take on much bigger/stronger kids…not necessarily tougher…I was slow in physical development…an autistic thing…so I needed mental toughness…physical toughness followed…and my tactical awareness and skills developed long before my physical strength…now, I would rather face someone bigger and stronger than another opponent like me …weasels are smaller and weaker than… Read more »
Conflating provisioning with sexual Alpha character is the source of confusion. The desire for security and provisinning is a seperate compulsion distinctly different, not opposite, of the sexual,compulsion. They are in no way binary or at opposite ends of a spectrum. No woman really gives a shit how much that hawt hot guy has in his wallet when she wants to fuck him. His bank account makes no difference. His sexuality, health, looks, physicality, confidence and body language makes all the difference. You have referred To banging 40 women numerous times and how some of the best sex you’ve ever… Read more »
ROLLO It is a mistake for a man to even remotely consider provisioning as an exchange for sexual desire and performance from a woman. By doing so, he acquiesces to her. She preemptively sets up,the “deal” merely by possession of her sexual beauty that he desires access to. Although women exercise varying levels of effort to enhance their sexual,beauty, it is basal that they possess it from the male perspective by their nature. Sex is not provisioning. Hypergamy itself proves this. The sexual revolution, the pill, feminism, etc has emboldened woman and implores her to make use of men as… Read more »
@sentient The Arbiter decides whether an action is Alpha or Beta, hence the “action” itself is not relevant. oops. if NAWALT and there’s a lot of variation in arbiter judgment, then I guess “game” really can’t exist — you know, that system of external tactics that universally increase a woman’s sexual desire. right? the action isn’t relevant, only the highly variable (in this formulation) judgment of the arbiter. if the judgments don’t vary much, then the actions are relevant. if game can exist, then the actions are of primary importance. There are “beta” acts interpreted as alpha, and alpha acts… Read more »
I find it interesting how Owen constantly stresses mindset in dozens of his videos and damn near every seminar talk he gives, but for Scray & I guess YaReally mindset is just ancillary to a process. Good if you have it, but ultimately not required so long as you can fake the behavior well enough and not let your mental state influence that process. That doesn’t seem to be at all what Owen promotes. This is just one of dozens of videos I looked up where he stress the importance of mindset and how it can influence a guy to… Read more »
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@rollo . Good if you have it, but ultimately not required so long as you can fake the behavior well enough and not let your mental state influence that process. When it comes to getting laid, yup. So yeah you keep bringing up RSD talking a lot about mindset. I wonder why that is. Oh ya, See Scray last thread ““But once again, there are living examples of dudes who have SHITTY mindsets, who nevertheless, EXECUTE alpha traits in sufficient proportion to be attractive to women. maybe it’s hard internally on them….and maybe it’d be better from a mental health… Read more »
“Nah, men can leave an overall alpha impression despite exhibiting some beta traits.”
Which flips some switches.
One of the coolest antidotes for white-knighting is to see a girl cheating on her beta boyfriend with an alpha. Once, a “niceguy” I knew as an acquaintance saw this actually happen to him. He was deeply in love with a girl with long brunette hair and a nice figure, and he thought they were going to “be an item forever.” What happened was that she met a guy at a club, one night, and just “fell instantly for him.” He was at the club and he was crestfallen when he saw his “damsel” get swept away. After that, his… Read more »
@ all Is the discussion concentrating solely on getting laid, or is it about mindset and motivation and action – long-term? These are practically 2 separate things as far as the original spirit that spurred the discussion in the first place. We keep getting drawn into a PUA short term, p in v paradigm and the attending strategy and understanding. No matter the situation, the PUA mind will always suffer a reversion of thought back to it’s original premise, without adaptation or progression. Nature of the beast, always pursue the easy and formulaic. Not that that’s a bad tactic short… Read more »
@blax These are practically 2 separate things as far as the original spirit that spurred the discussion in the first place. We keep getting drawn into a PUA short term, p in v paradigm and the attending strategy and understanding. lol except we aren’t broheim, here, have a gander at what I already said: “If you want a woman’s love some degree of beta will be in your approach. Retaining FBs and having women who keep coming back for more involves them seeing you as a potential long-term mate. they aren’t coming back just to get fucked — your cock… Read more »
@Scray, so is mindset ancillary to Game then? Does a positive or negative mindset influence how a guy delivers an approach or handles a shit test? I have no doubt that there are guys who have the capacity to entirely disconnect their emotional state from their ability to perform – great performs can cry on demand irrespective of their internal state, but on some level of self-awareness they know this is an act and set apart from their genuine internal state. I can link you to videos of Owen leading these pep rally style chants to pysch up the guys… Read more »
“Is the discussion concentrating solely on getting laid . . .”
As I said before, if you are a PUA, everything looks like a pickup.
In my own quest for universal truths I do not take the nightclub or the mall as my field. I take the universe.
The ” gay feelz shit…”.
Too technical for me before my 3rd cup of coffee.
@ 48 all this PUA shit doesn’t sit right with me, seems a lot like dancing monkeys or performing clowns, you are the equivalent of court jesters trying to amuse “her majesty” so that she will fuck you! Fuck that! Not for me I have to much self respect for all that shit! I’ve seen videos with Pua’s hyping themselves up before they go out to ” match their energy level” with the club/bar before they even go out! Can’t remember the guys name but in the same video he even recommended saying Hi to imaginary people in busy venues… Read more »
@Playdontpay, there’s a post for that:
https://therationalmale.com/2015/04/17/dancing-monkeys/
Lol play.
But to be clear, I’m in no way anti PUA. Never.
It just seems to come with a certain set of limitations wrt broader life actions and concepts, and that’s only initially.
There’s more than one way to grab a pussy. Lol.
There’s nothing at all incorrect about faking it, short term.
I think that strategy sucks as a lifelong means though.
Even some of the PUA ” gurus ” come to this realization once the clubs and street pickups become routinely boring and predictable.
Then it’s time to grow and develop beyond.
In fact I’m gonna watch a few James Marshall and rsd vids myself……
H/T Rollo
” . . . seems a lot like dancing monkeys . . .”
Q: What is the difference between a pickup artist and a dancing monkey?
Wait for it, wait for it . . .
A: Mindset.
” . . . on some level of self-awareness they know this is an act and set apart from their genuine internal state.”
Which not only requires a good deal of training to pull off, but that training has to be directed at acquiring the proper . . . mindset.
Take a formal acting class and they will have you doing all sorts of apparently goofy stuff. That goofy stuff is directed toward altering your mindset.
@rollo so is mindset ancillary to Game then? Does a positive or negative mindset influence how a guy delivers an approach or handles a shit test? lol let me refer you to stuff I just said and have said several times already: ““now, in the REAL WORLD, a mindset that is diametrically opposed to action just won’t happen often…one will give way to the other. what matters though, most, is the external manifestation — i.e. behavior. adopting a new mindset can help with those externals, and inner game is very valuable to that end. but again, to that end. to… Read more »
@ blax Yea I can see the value in “fake it till you make it” to a certain degree if it brings results that can then be used to build genuine confidence because you believe you can replicate these results. I guess the clue is in the name pick up ‘artist’ as in its a petformance, it’s not authentic. I guess some guys are prepared to go to any lengths no matter how demeaning to get pussy! I’m not one of them, I couldn’t pull it off, my personality wouldn’t allow me to. If I was in some club/pulling all… Read more »
There’s always a mindset involved. Like Hank’s mindset might be. “I have this sweet routine mapped out with a giant flow chart of possible shit that could happen and there’s a reasonable chance the girl will have a good reaction and I’ll get laid.”
While Sentient’s mindset is probably something like: “I’m awesome. I’m going to do what I think is awesome, and chicks are going to love me.”
@Scray: “I seriously have no clue what is getting lost in translation.”
That may be your problem.