When I first began writing on SoSuave over a decade ago I used to get into what I consider now some fairly predictable arguments about monogamy. It was an interesting time since it was around then I was getting into some heated arguments in my behavioral psychology classes in college.
I had just written what would later become my essay, There is no One and a good majority of my classmates and all of my teachers but one were less than accepting of the theory. I anticipated most of the women in those classes would be upset – bear in mind this was around 2001-02 and the Red Pill was yet to be a thing – what I was surprised by was how many men became hostile by my having challenged the soulmate myth.
I got a lot of the same flack from women then that I get from uninitiated women when they read my work now; “Aren’t you married? Isn’t she your soulmate? Don’t you believe in love? You must’ve got burned pretty bad at some time Mr. Hateful.” Those were and are what I expect because they’re the easy subroutine responses a Blue Pill ego needs to protect itself with. There was a time I probably would’ve mouthed the same. That’s how the conditioning works; it provides us with what we think ought to be ‘obvious’ to anyone. And at the same time, we feel good for ‘defying the odds’ and believing in what we take for granted, or common sense.
This is how deep the subconscious need for assuring our genetic heritage goes. For women this assurance is about optimal Hypergamy, for men, it’s about assurances of paternity. In either case, we need to believe that we will reproduce, and so much so that we will attribute some supernatural influence to the process of doing so. The fulfillment of your own sexuality is nothing less than your battle for existence, and on some level, your subconscious understands this. Thus, for the more religious-minded it gets attributed to fate and faith, whereas for the more secular-minded it’s about the romanticized notion of a soulmate.
Monogamy & ONEitis
I contemplated the idea of ONEitis for a long time back then. I’d most certainly been through it more than once, even with the BPD ex-girlfriend. By then I understood first hand how the belief absorbs a Beta and how it is an essential element, effectively a religion, for a Blue Pill life experience. I didn’t realize it then, but I was maturing into a real valuation of myself and I had the benefit of some real-world experiences with the nature of women to interpret and contrast what I was learning then.
Honestly, I had never even encountered the term ‘ONEitis’ prior to my SoSuave forum days. I referred to the soulmate myth in my writing as best I could, but it wasn’t until (I suppose) Mystery had coined the term. Outside the ‘sphere people got genuinely upset with me when I defined it for them. Back then I attributed this to having their ego-investment challenged, and while that’s part of it, today I believe there’s more to it than this.
The old social contracts that constituted what I call the Old Set of Books meant a lot in respect to how the social orders prior to the sexual revolution were maintained. That structuring required an upbringing that taught men and women what their respective roles were, and those roles primarily centered on a lifetime arrangement of pair bonding.
It’s interesting to note that the popular theory amongst evolutionary anthropologists is that modern monogamous culture has only been around for just 1,000 years. Needless to say, it’s a very unpopular opinion that human beings are in fact predisposed to polyamory / polygyny and monogamy is a social adaptation (a necessary one) with the purpose of curbing the worst consequences of that nature. We want to believe that monogamy is our nature and our more feral impulses are spandrels and inconveniences to that nature. We like the sound of humans having evolved past our innate proclivities to the point that they are secondary rather than accepting them as fundamental parts of who we really are.
Women, in particular, are far more invested in promoting the idea of ‘natural’ monogamy since it is their sex that bears the cost of reproductive investments. Even the hint of men acknowledging their ‘selfish gene’ nature gets equated with a license to cheat on women. This is an interesting conflict for women who are increasingly accepting (if not outright flaunting) of Open Hypergamy.
I’ve attempted in past essays to address exactly this duplicity women have to rationalize with themselves. The Preventive Medicine book and posts outline the conflict and how women internalize and ‘hamsterize’ the need to be both Hypergamously selective, but to also prioritize long-term security at various stages of their lives. Ultimately a woman’s position on monogamy is ruled by how she balances her present Alpha Fucks with her future prospects of Beta Bucks.
Seed and Need
It might be that women would rather share a confirmed Alpha with other women than be saddled with a faithful Beta, but that’s not to say that necessity doesn’t eventually compel women to settle for monogamy with a dutiful Beta. In either respect, the onus of sustained, faithful monogamy is always a responsibility placed upon men. The indignation that comes from even the suspicions of a man’s “straying”, a wandering eye, or preplanned infidelity is one of the most delicious sensations a woman can feel. Women will create syndicated talk shows just to commiserate around that indignation.
But in an era when the likes of Sheryl Sandberg encourages women to fully embrace their Hypergamous natures and expects men to be equally accepting of it, it takes a lot of psychological gymnastics to reconcile the visceral feelings of infidelity with the foreknowledge that a less exciting Beta will be the only type of man who will calm her suspicions.
It’s important to also contrast this with the socialization efforts to make women both victims and blameless. As I mention in the last post, men who lack the appreciation of the necessity to prepare for a sustained monogamy with a woman are considered ‘kidults’ or prolonging their adolescence. They are shamed for not meeting women’s definition of being mature; that definition is always one that centers on the idea that men ought to center their lives around being better-than-deserved, faithful, monogamous potentials for women’s long-term security and parental investment.
On the other hand, women are never subject to any qualifications like this. In fact, they are held in higher regard for bucking the system and staying faithful to themselves by never marrying or even aborting children along the way to do so. So once again, we return to the socialization effort necessary to absolve women of the consequences that the conflict Hypergamy poses to them – they become both victims and blameless in confronting a monogamy they expect from men, but are somehow exempt from when it’s inconvenient.
Pair Bonding
Arguably, pair bonding has been a primary adaptation for us that has been species-beneficial. It’s fairly obvious that humans’ capacity for both intra- and inter-sexual cooperation has made us the apex species on the planet. However, the Feminine Imperative’s primary social impetus of making Hypergamy the defining order of (ideally) all cultures is in direct conflict with this human cooperativity. A new order of open Hypergamy, based on female primacy (and the equalist importance of the individual), subverts the need for pair bonding. There is no need for intersexual interdependence (complementarity) when women are socialized and lauded for being self-satisfying, self-sufficient individuals.
Add to this the conditioning of unaccountable victimhood and/or the inherent blamelessness of women and you get an idea of where our social order is heading.
Both sex’s evolved sexual strategies operate counter to the demands of pair bonded monogamy. For millennia we’ve adapted social mechanisms to buffer for it (marriage, male protectionism of women, etc.), but the cardinal rule of sexual strategies still informs these institutions and practices:
The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.
In this respect, it is men who are expected to make the greater compromise due to an evolved sense of uncertainty about paternity and the social mandate to accommodate women’s sexual strategy.
The counter to this is that women have always borne the responsibility of parental investment if they chose a father poorly (or didn’t choose), but in our post-sexual revolution social order, the consequences of this responsibility have been virtually eliminated. In fact, those consequences are now viewed as evidence of women’s independent strength.
Even aborting a child is a source of pride now.
Men bear the greater effect of compromising their sexual strategies to accommodate and resolve the strategy of women. When we account for the normalization of open Hypergamy, soft cuckoldry, and the legal resistance to paternity testing (ostensibly centering on the emotional wellbeing of the child in question) it is much clearer that men bear the most direct consequences for compromising their sexual imperatives.
From Warren Farrell’s book. Why Men are the Way They Are (h/t to SJF):
Why are men so afraid of commitment? Chapter 2 explained how most men’s primary fantasy is still, unfortunately, access to a number of beautiful women. For a man, commitment means giving up this fantasy. Most women’s primary fantasy is a relationship with one man who either provides economic security or is on his way to doing so (he has “potential”). For a woman, commitment to this type of man means achieving this fantasy. So commitment often means that a woman achieves her primary fantasy, while a man gives his up. — P.150
Men who “won’t commit” are often condemned for treating women as objects — hopping from one beautiful woman to the next. Many men hop. But the hopping is not necessarily objectifying. Men who “hop from one beautiful woman to another” are usually looking for what they could not find at the last hop: good communication, shared values, good chemistry. — P.153
The meaning of commitment changed for men between the mid-sixties and the mid-eighties. Commitment used to be the certain route to sex and love, and to someone to care for the children and the house and fulfill the “family man image.” Now men feel less as if they need to marry for sex; they are more aware that housework can be hired out and that restaurants serve meals; they are less trapped by family-man image motivation, including the feeling that they must have children. Increasingly, that leaves men’s main reason to commit the hope of a woman to love. — P.159
Dr. Farrell is still fundamentally trapped in a Blue Pill perspective because he still clings to the validity of the old order books/rules, and the willfully ignorant hope that women will rationally consider men’s sexual imperatives as being as valid as their own.
That said, Farrell’s was the germ of the idea I had for the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies, he just didn’t go far enough because he was (and still is) stuck in Blue Pill idealistic hopes of monogamy. Bear in mind, Farrell’s book is based on his intrasexual understandings of everything leading up to its publication in 1986, however, this does give us some insight into how the old order evolved its approach to monogamy then into an open, socially accepted form of Hypergamy now.
He relies on the old trope that men are afraid of commitment by reasoning that men only want to fulfill a fantasy of unlimited access to unlimited sexuality – all shallow, all superficial, while women’s priority of commitment is correct, selfless, valid and blameless. Farrell also reveals his Blue Pill conditioning by making the presumption that men only Game women in the hope that they’ll find a unicorn, and they’re endlessly fucking women for no other reason than to find a woman with good communication, shared values, good chemistry, etc.
I sincerely doubt that even in the mid 8os this was the case for men not want to commit to a woman, or essentially compromise his sexual strategy to accommodate that of women’s. Farrell never came to terms with dual nature of women’s sexual strategy and how it motivates women over time because he believes men and women have, fundamentally, the same concept of love and mutually shared end-goals.
Mandates & Responses
In the decades since this publication, the normalization and legal mandates that ensure men will (by force if necessary) comply with this compromise is something I doubt Farrell could’ve ever predicted. Legal aspects, social aspects, that used to be a source of women stigmatization about this compromise have all been swept away or normalized, if not converted to some redefined source of supposed strength. Abortion rights, single parenting (almost exclusively the domain of women), postponing birth, careerism, freezing women’s eggs, sperm banks, never-marrying, body fat acceptance and many more aspects are all accepted in the name of strong independence® for women.
Virtually anything that might’ve been a source of regret, shame, or stigmatization in the old order is dismissed or repurposed to elevate women, but what most men never grasp (certainly not Dr. Farrell) is that all of these normalizations were and are potential downsides to a woman’s Hypergamous decisions.
MGTOW/PUA/ The Red Pill, are all the deductive responses to this normalization, but also, they’re a response to the proposition of the compromise that the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies presents to men in today’s sexual marketplace.
In all of these ‘movements’ the fundamental, central truth is that they all run counter to the presumption that men must compromise (or abandon) their sexual imperatives – long or short term. Thus, these ideologies and praxeologies have the effect of challenging or removing some of the total control of Hypergamy women now have mandated to them. Even just the concepts of MGTOW/PUA/TRP are equatable to removing this control.
However, it is still undeniable that there is a necessity for monogamy (even if it’s just temporary) or some iteration of pair bonding that ensures men and women raise healthier, stronger, better-developed children. We are still social animals and, despite what equalism espouses, we are different yet complementary and interdependent with one another. Mutual cooperation, tribalism, monogamy and even small-scale polygamy have been beneficial social adaptations for us.
Gynocentrism and the respondent efforts against it defeat this complementary cooperative need.
Gynocentrism / egalitarianism defeat this cooperation in its insistence that equalism, self-apart independence, and homogeny ought to be society’s collective mental point of origin in place of the application of differing strengths to differing weaknesses.
So we come to an impasse then. It’s likely it will require a traumatic social event to reset or redefine the terms of our present social contract to ever make monogamy a worthwhile compromise for men again. We can also contrast this ‘raw deal’ compromise against the Cardinal Rule of Relationships: In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least. It’s easy to think women simply have no need of men when their long-term security is virtually assured today, but fem-centrism goes beyond just separating the sexes by need. It wasn’t enough to just separate male and female cooperation, fem-centrism has made men’s compromise so bad that they must be made to despise their sex altogether. Men had to be made not only to accept their downside compromise but to feel ashamed for even thinking not to.
@YaReally Mind if I just start calling you Dad? It’s easier to type. 😛 Having a bit of an identity crisis. I’ve changed so much that I’m realizing that I have no idea who I am. Like if you can change this much, is there any such thing and an inherent identity at all? Do I just choose who I want to be? Searched the archive and it seems like if you just keep pushing yourself some words and actions will be “you” and some will not. But like how do you know? Like is that initial urge to say… Read more »
And not to nit pick, but Deida’s writing is antonymous to cynicism. He’s about masculine idealism. (About men mastering the challenges of women, work and sexual desire, mostly through Eastern spiritualism.)
@Andy
“Having a bit of an identity crisis. I’ve changed so much that I’m realizing that I have no idea who I am.”
Weigh in here:
https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
https://www.16personalities.com/articles/our-theory
Under each type there is a sidebar for
Explore This Type
1. Introduction
2. Strengths & Weaknesses
3. Emotions
4. Romantic Relationships
5. Friendships
6. Parenthood
7. Career Paths
8. Workplace Habits
@ SJF, Thank you for finding and posting that link I referenced. The other one by Rollo I read some months ago after first taking the RP and it really moved me. You guys and this site with all of Rollo’s articles and the comments under each have been a real blessing for me as for others. I’ve been down many rabbit holes in search of some RP understanding to this world and life in general in order to find some closure and understanding but it is the gender rabbit hole that has saved me and has helped me to… Read more »
@ SJF,
Masculine idealism and not cynicism. Yes, I stand corrected on that. Those were nice excerpts and were not bitter or cynical at all.
YaReally Sentient HABD Scray Hank and PUA gang FR Monday night some more solo stuff – first at a fancy hotel bar and then the kiddie nightclub thing from last week. Literally no sets at the fancy hotel bar (except for a couple two-sets at the bar lodged between two groups of old guys with no approach vector). Did a solid number of approaches but still not as many as I should be doing – in the 10-15 range not the 30+ a night range – all in the kiddie club – and then later after that when I went… Read more »
@SJF
You’re completely on the wrong track with that personality type stuff. I have a post cooking for you.
Most women nowadays hit the wall soon and hard. They lose their looks fast, because they live like shit. If they live like shit, that’s entirely their choice, and it’s a very clear sign of refusing to do anything about their mating chances. That’s a situation very different from bygone times, when women aged terribly no matter what they did, unless they belonged to the nobility, because medical care was shit, dental care was shit, nutrition was shit, plastic surgery didn’t exist and women normally performed hard manual labor throughout their lives. The average woman today has many means at… Read more »
Is fatherhood viable in the FI world? If not, then we don’t have the “new generations” and “stable society” that YaReally speaks of. Instead we have the decline.
I reckon he specifically stated that he isn’t planning to start a family and have children, and doesn’t believe in the future regeneration of Western civilization.
Like your mom wasn’t saying to be nice to girls and bring flowers on your first date thinking “haha this stupid beta chode son of mine is going to be so embarrassed and sexually frustrated haha what a loser hahaha I’m going to tell all my friends about what a loser he is haha I hope he’s a virgin forever!!” lol A mother’s main biological imperative is to make sure someone looks after her when she’s old and helpless. Her second most important imperative is to have grandkids. (These two are closely linked, of course.) That’s why they betaize their… Read more »
And you can lecture women all you want, and you can even get them to agree to shit, but in the moment they’ll default to running on their emotions and social conditioning and just backwards hamster-rationalize their actions (which they have to be able to do to survive, War Brides dynamic and all). If you don’t understand that they’ll do that, then you don’t understand how women’s hindbrains/biology work. Alpha or not, a man cannot call a woman out on her shit. She won’t listen. Only women can call women out on their shit. And they don’t do it by… Read more »
@Culum
“The other thing I’m happy about is that I opened EVERY single girl who came near me while standing at the bar. EVERY one without fail. I still didn’t go up to approach girls in groups but I opened every single girl who came to the bar whether in a group or not and that’s a first for me”
This.
Impressive. Keep up the good work – I’m so encouraged by this.
Oh, and yeah – the drinking’s got to slow down
Speaking of ONE-itis, there’s this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-36950013
Talk about commitment. As in, he should be committed.
“Good joke. Everyone laugh. Curtains…” – Rorschach in Watchmen
And so we laugh, and mock, until we remember our Beta-boy days of being stood up and, if you’re a jet boy today, flaked. (Surely I’m not the only one.)
(Oh, I am.)
(Don’t call me Shirley).
speaking of oneitis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/4vq12x/lostadrift_sea_not_sure_if_i_want_to_return/
@YaReally “It’s just that women work from a point of solipsism, so when you ask a woman “what should a guy to do get a girlfriend?” she doesn’t picture “what should 5’7″ balding ginger scrawny nasal-voiced spergy Tyler from RSD do to stick his dick inside you?” That guy isn’t even on her radar of potential partners in her mind. She’s picturing the highest-value male she can imagine and thinking “what would I want Brad Pitt to do to get me?” and she would feel like Brad Pitt is out of her league so she pictures him doing stuff to… Read more »
Chunky Monkey
There’s some absolute gold in those posts in terms of female nature
Yup. Men lead, women follow. Have hand, never lose it. YOU can be Jimmy Page to your own Lori Maddox… until you are not…
Culum Good efforts… I’m starting to lose that “this is wrong” feeling about being out alone. Like nobody seems to care – nobody asks or anything. Yes, no one at all is watching you. No one is talking later that night or the next day about that guy who was by himself… Just doesn’t exist. “Why are you here by yourself? – I was bored… I was thirsty… I’m only here for a few nights etc etc etc… Just doesn’t matter. People mostly ask, if they do at all, out of social convention, a way to move a conversation forward,… Read more »
Actually I think I just need to slow down and try and forget about all this shit for a while. Lol. Later guys!
@yareally The more I progress, the more I feel like when girls “act up” (what the guys here consider vicious evil behavior blabla), it’s not so much that they act according to their biological wiring, but more that they act like this because THEY CAN. Like no one calls them out on their bad behavior, and even if they are mega bitch, they will always have thirsty guys orbiting. Therefore why shouldn’t they? I find funny guys talking about how men are so morally superior, whereas in most cases guys behave because being an asshole has a big cost, even… Read more »
@ just getting it
“Where the hell did we get this idea that girls are all angels?”
Keeping men sexually starved until they’re in their 30’s and beyond perpetuates that myth. If you’ve never been with a woman, how do you know they’re not all angels?
Being in a BPD relationship is a good cure for that. Then again BPD’s are just more extreme versions of women. AWALT.
Andy
Having a bit of an identity crisis. I’ve changed so much that I’m realizing that I have no idea who I am.
If you stayed exactly the same, you’d be having an identical crisis.
This is better. Way better.
Klem
“I wonder how many guys would act morally if they could get away with ANYTHING, if no matter how bad their behavior, they would be praised and keep having an ocean of girls willing to suck their dicks…”
“Uh… I could name a few… like me, Richie, Tommie, Axl, Nikki, uh bunch more… Oh wait… morally… yeah … what is that you’re getting at?” JBJ
I don’t know if this is good or bad, but I shifted from blue pill lies to red pill awareness really fast. Yeah, I got angry and depressed when I first unplugged but at this point I kind of accepted that AWALT, women are women and there is nothing I can do about it, I think it has to do with me never having a long term girlfriend and having in general little to no interactions with women (It is slowly changing now), so I had never been deeply emotionally invested in a woman that wasn’t my mom or my… Read more »
@Culum: The bad news is that nobody even cares about you enough to think about you. The good news is that nobody even cares about you enough to think about you. @Andy: The bad news is that making progress is uncomfortable. The good news is that if you’re feeling uncomfortable you just might be making progress. Questioning your identity is a sign of illusion breaking up, and an opportunity. @Klem: “it’s not so much that they act according to their biological wiring, but more that they act like this because THEY CAN.” The bad news is that they are biologically… Read more »
this is amusing (thx to a post on r/TheRedPill)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex-murder-and-the-meaning-life/201607/link-between-prostitutes-age-and-her-income
now somebody has overlaid (pun intended) the value/age of whores with Rollo’s SMV chart:
http://m.imgur.com/a/D4edn
@Andy Like if you can change this much, is there any such thing and an inherent identity at all? Do I just choose who I want to be? You’re asking what are considered to be fundamental philosophical questions there, and the answer to the first hinges heavily on religious belief. The reason I think many people think there is an “inherent identity” is the belief in a soul acting as such. I believe in no such thing, so in my mind humans have no static identity. To me, “you” are simply an emergent state of the current configuration of the… Read more »
@Sun Wukong
” It comes from the process of trying to make my actions going forward congruent with who I have become, and the almost inevitable conflict this will cause with the world around me.”
Good point on myself as well
@Rollo
Genes and the red pill
http://quillette.com/2016/08/02/the-future-of-genetic-enhancement-is-not-in-the-west/
“It’s not because this new identity isn’t “me”. It comes from the process of trying to make my actions going forward congruent with who I have become, and the almost inevitable conflict this will cause with the world around me.”
There ya go.
This research paper indicates that the cock carousel is less prevalent than expected outside of the bar/nightclub/tinder/hookup scene: Americans born in the 1980s and 1990s (commonly known as Millennials and iGen) were more likely to report having no sexual partners as adults compared to GenX’ers born in the 1960s and 1970s in the General Social Survey, a nationally representative sample of American adults (N = 26,707). Among those aged 20–24, more than twice as many Millennials born in the 1990s (15 %) had no sexual partners since age 18 compared to GenX’ers born in the 1960s (6 %). Higher rates… Read more »
@Redlight: that earnings overlay is hilarious. And very interesting to me. I’d say you can generalize prostitutes and look at stuff like sugar babies, strippers, pour girls (hi Rollo) and other occupations that rely strongly on, to put it directly, sex appeal and you can almost predict how it will look like based on that. Pharmaceutical reps were also discussed recently. You could even reverse the study, check how the earnings go for each occupation depending on age and figure out from that which occupations are essentially a type of “soft” prostitution. I would guess it includes most actresses and… Read more »
I am reposting that Twitter link from above here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/there-isnt-really-anything-magical-about-it-why-more-millennials-are-putting-off-sex/2016/08/02/e7b73d6e-37f4-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html?postshare=3241470153191702&tid=ss_tw The brave new world for our soft boys and jet girls: This sums up EVERYTHIING we’ve been discussing, and illustrates my initial post in this thread. Couple that with the new thread on marriage provision at Dalrock’s and you have today’s SMP in a tight little package. Nobody fucks, nobody marries, nobody dates, they’re too scared to even talk, let alone approach, they’re too shy, yes means yes and no one wants to get expelled, no one talks to each other except via screen, emotions are triggering and require sedation,… Read more »
Aagh! Redlight beat me to the WP story by a couple minutes.
@Rollo
Stay strong
Redditor’s overaly link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4vte1t/article_from_the_journal_of_evolution_and_human/d61dov7
“Men pay more for younger prostitutes”
The No Shit Sherlock Dept. heard from.
@kfg: theories are just theories until verified experimentally. RP has a lot of good theories in it (because most of it is already extracted from lots and lots of observation) but parts of it probably be shown to not match reality and eventually corrected.
This is certainly not the first proof that the concept of the wall and Rollo’s SMP chart is correct, but it is a pretty strong confirmation, which can help convince some reasonable skeptics.
The prostitute pay graph: ha, ha! Apparently the market does not bear equal pay for equal work.
The written, empirical record of men paying more for younger prostitutes goes all the way back to Sumerian temple records, i.e., the beginning of written history itself. Every brothel in every time and place has confirmed it. The very reason that the Victorian English raised the age of consent from the 14 it had been for many centuries was because of the high demand for the “barely legal” girls of the East End. And the paper itself notes that they already knew the answer. It was just a funding dredge, and perhaps a chance to hang out with teenage, Indonesian… Read more »
Somebody please send me a million dollars to conduct an actual experiment…
That would only reinforce your rock-privilege, or perhaps opposable-thumb privilege, so no. No Federal soup for you.
A YouTube ad informs me that somebody has sucked up a tanker full of Federal and charity money for an idea I promoted on a tech site about 15 years ago.
Having this idea that money is something that’s supposed to be made appears to be a problem for me.
@DisgruntledEarthling (and @KFG – thanks dude. It’s all definitely progressing, just happening slowly. But STEADY. I didn’t even mention but stuff like eye contact and voice tonality etc all improving as well because of doing more opens. Lots of progress still to be made @Sentient – heh, one of these days I’m going to open a girl like Maverick and Goose do in Top Gun. I’ll keep the opening point in mind too – it’s more of a mental block (albeit an easier open in some ways) in a hotel bar where there’s a more “civilized” less of a meat… Read more »
I didn’t even mention but stuff like eye contact and voice tonality etc all improving as well because of doing more opens.
Was just listening to a couple of Millennial college men, talkingrillyfast.
Like girls, so no one else gets a word in edgewise? Uptalking, even? at the end of sentences as they run into the next sentence? Sheesh.
Check your speech speed. Not too slow, but slower than the girls. Just suggesting.
Thanks anonymous reader – yes, stuff like that. I am mostly focussed on locking eye contact and slowing speech down a bit (in that order), but I need to bring in the breaking rapport tonality too and I’m doing some of that.
Relevant:
http://www.theonion.com/article/hillary-clinton-young-girls-should-have-equal-oppo-53385
@kfg
“Having this idea that money is something that’s supposed to be made appears to be a problem for me.”
Ya, for the me the issue often happens somewhere between idea conception and just doing the thing without telling anyone/gathering support.
Or maybe I just value not having to work 80-hr weeks for a few years to get something off the ground lol.
Hah, I remember going through Andy’s thing here.
“Who even am I?”
Well, the one who asked that question, for starters. And not the one who answered it. Not at first.
@Culum “”I was wearing rather formal clothes (blazer, chinos, formal shirt etc – not that formal but WAY too formal for a kiddie nightclub where all the other guys are in jeans and sneakers – real sticking out like a sore thumb territory especially since I was alone).”” You have to start realizing that if you’re over 30 …or in my case late 40’s…your value goes up with girls in their 20’s if you can dress confidently. I dress in my own style which doesn’t look anything like the “kiddies” who may be out. But that is also a game… Read more »
@ Andy….if you come back…anytime soon…lol, Who are you. Who you be. Who dat? In the end, a man has the absolute power to be whatever or whoever he chooses. There are no limitations in your mind. That’s where your identity lives initially. I got another little nugget for you to digest whenever you are up to it. NOTHING is as we were taught it was. It’s not just with women and sex and the FI/Feminism. This is indeed the fucking Matrix in more ways than 1 my brother. Comfort. Comfort is like a drug. It dulls the mind. A… Read more »
Thanks Wala – yeah, that’s the goal. I reached that point of abundance in my online dating stuff and I stopped it for other reasons even though I was getting fairly consistent bangs from sugar dating, but the idea is to hit the same point with cold approach although it will likely take me a little while.
And yes, I did feel good dressed up (the previous work meeting was important so I made sure I looked good) and it suits my image and identity that congruence is important in itself as you point out
Oh yeah, I forgot to say something about being like Neo and bend life with your mind….or whatever. Shit. Next time.
@colbert you’re in a pretty good position, from having gotten girls and from having that one chick be so into you. you just gotta learn to take on those good subcomms on a regular basis. and here is where i am going to disagree a bit with sjf on the whole ‘get a hobby’ deal. the only thing that will really get you in a better headspace in regards to women is to be successful with women. hobbies will help a bit, but you need to be doing that IN ADDITION to going out in field. Its the same as… Read more »
@Hank “….and here is where i am going to disagree a bit with sjf on the whole ‘get a hobby’ deal.” Get a purpose. Have pursuit and passion. Have desire to Master those. PUA is a pursuit and passion. It is a fantastic “hobby”. I call Red Pill and Game my hobby outright in the past three years. Andy is obsessed with something lately and I go all in with saying he is totally rejuvenated, even if disoriented. I bet he’s killing it at his profession, killing it as a father to his kids and giving dread to his wife.… Read more »
Hank
“and here is where i am going to disagree a bit with sjf on the whole ‘get a hobby’ deal.
the only thing that will really get you in a better headspace in regards to women is to be successful with women.”
How do you measure ‘successful”?
Was talking with a middle aged black dude. And even though he had some pretty out there stuff (the roman catholic church is behind everything) he had a very astute understanding of the present situation. He was talking about all the problems with cops and such. That a black dude is going to see a cop doing something to one of his own. So of course he’s gonna lash out at a cop. So then the cops just lash out at the blacks. It just gets worse and worse. He said people gotta take a step back and let things… Read more »
@sentient How do you measure ‘successful”? depends on the guy, but the main thing is to go out and have fun with chicks that are into you. Could be a marathon fuckfest, could just be chilling at the club. thing is you need to have experiences of girls being silly little bundles of fun feminine energy to get past the caustic mindset of “all women are evil evil cunts.” i think married guys, especially ones in bad marriages/divorces, haven’t seen that side of women in a long time. they only see women at their worst, and that makes them bitter.… Read more »
@ Hank Holiday, Ya Really, and Ramana Maharshi, It’s funny I was thinking about the topic of bitterness and all of that as well as Ya Really’s accounts of his humble beginnings and your own situation starting out as well. I think it actually is a bigger advantage taking the RP first and then getting experience with women (assuming of course you don’t have mother, sister and family dynamic childhood issues – lol). I say this because it allows you to see things not only from a RP perspective but also from a women’s perspective which can be more difficult… Read more »
The final and ultimate hurtle is to learn to see things from a RP female perspective
Doesn’t exist. There is the female perspective. Call it “pink” if you wish.
Rich, good-looking blonde tech guy totally sucks on Tinder.
Look him up on Youtube, there are lots of videos of him public speaking.
http://news.nationalpost.com/life/i-am-still-single-how-one-man-swiped-right-on-200000-women-on-tinder-with-zero-success
@Blaximus Oh yeah, I forgot to say something about being like Neo and bend life with your mind….or whatever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAXtO5dMqEI “There is no spoon.” “There is no spoon?” “Then you’ll see it is not the spoon that bends; it is only yourself.” Love this quote for one very real reason: you will rarely have control over anything in this life except yourself. There is no reason, then, to get frustrated over your lack of control of the life around you. Instead seek only control over yourself. Through that you’ll find the world will bend to your will far more readily.… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iGSAFjzBd8
“No, bitch. It’s more like you’re a fat, unattractive HB3.”
Maybe if she grew a beard.
@kfg
I love you, man.
#NoHomo
@ Anonymous Reader,
Doesn’t exist or Can’t be done? I think maybe it can be done but I could be wrong on that. If pink is the best a man can do then that is better than nothing I guess. Who knows. Maybe a forum guru would like to weigh in on the ability of a man to re-wire his brain to become solipsistic and therefore hack into the female hive mind mainframe matrix system of control for male domination and enslavement.
Brief FR update: I always find that when there’s a long delay for Day 2, you should stoke the fire at least a couple times. Both need to be brief, but engaging. Remind her why you’re awesome. I even violate the smiley rule, because fuck you humorless bastards. I work my own Game. Text on Sunday when she was working and I was out playing in the dirt for the first time on the used enduro bike (HOLY CRAP SO FUN) I just bought: Me: Are you working hard, or hardly working? 😉 Her: Yeap 😭 i was busy yesterday… Read more »
@Culum Good stuff dude, learning comfort in clubs is a big step here. Approaches are SO MUCH easier than daygame unless you live near like Times Square or something. The alcohol and music are there to amp your state. Eventually I learned to just let the music do it, and now just order a beer at the start of the night so I have something to do with my hands while I loosen up. Girls will try to force-feed me alcohol later in the night lol, ‘You’re too sober!’ Re: fancy dress: dressing a notch up can be fun. Classic… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong,
“While many people take from it the philosophy that the world is illusory, I take from it the philosophy that self mastery is the only way to shape the world around you”.
Yeah, I like that perspective.
@Sun Ya that’s good. Basically you’re reinforcing your presence in her mind, not triggering ASD, and doing what little you can to spike attraction over text (not much, best save most of that for in person). It’s basically comfort stuff. The texting I did w FWB during a 10-day vacation was mostly like that. When sex was a possibility things got a bit different. A few days ago, about noon: send text like ‘So I took up diamond cutting this AM.’ ‘Oh yeah?’ ‘Yeah it’s easy. You just need an equally hard object and bang away at it.’ She doesn’t… Read more »
just been skimming a bit, missed a BUNCH of stuff… since i don’t have much time latey… ——————– @Rollo my condolences… @Sun glad to see you’re back… and with your shit worked out…lol…props on that… but i didn’t have any doubt… bc i knew that you believed in me while i believed in you…lol… getting on the road sounds great!… @Forge i’m glad some of my stuff was useful…lol… @YaReally @all Most guys who are angry “at women” are really just angry at society in general for lying to them and at themselves for not figuring out it was all… Read more »
And oh yeah, screw not using smilies. Just don’t use them for placating or sympathy garnering.
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Fuck+da+police+lolololollo_4de405_3461512.jpg
@habd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l__YXXkdpi8
@Forge
Dat image.
http://media0.giphy.com/media/98jU7NxuNSSZ2/200.gif
@Sun Good stuff. A few important points. The lure and attraction of the Day 2 isn’t the “best pizza in Dallas” it’s to hang with you. I think you’re over-selling the event instead of making it cool. When I set these up I just say: Thursday. 7pm. and then a photo of some cartoon character or mercilously fat woman eating pizza…. She’ll always respond with “What’s this?” or “hahahaha” You’re over-selling this instead of just making it a cool thing to do. I had a Day 2 where we went and shot pool and had drinks. Me: XXX cockails and… Read more »
@Andy “Having a bit of an identity crisis. I’ve changed so much that I’m realizing that I have no idea who I am.” Up till now you’ve let other people and social conditioning tell you what your identity is or what it should be. The realization that you can just ignore that and be whoever you want can be a mind-fuck. Giving you personality quizzes is just telling you “okay so you don’t want society’s pre-defined label (happily married monogamous 2.5 kids white-pickett fence hard-working father etc when, half the time you look in the mirror you don’t see THAT… Read more »
@ Redlight, “I finally had confronted her about the affair with my co-worker & all I got was “It was stupid” & “I’m sorry”. It’s a slow night at work for me and so I have extra time to ponder important matters. Regarding Redlight’s “Lost Adrift at Sea” article. Do women just look at men as being in one of two categories : Alpha (lover) and Beta (provider) and then just go from there? Like, do women just collect friendzone orbiters and put them in their Beta bullpen when they’re in their Alpha Fux pre-wall 20’s as they ride the… Read more »
@ YaReally, Roger that. I’m picking up what you’re putting down even though I’m scared and all of those negative feelings are true. I accept what you have to say and know that a person’s trials and tribulations are irrelevant. Victims are like energy vampires and I didn’t intend to come across that way. The funny thing is my bitterness is not even so much at women as it is not really ever having a good handle on just developing a stronger masculine identity. Not interested in feeling, thinking or acting like a victim, YaReally, and I’m certainly not interested… Read more »
@Colbert “Roger that. I’m picking up what you’re putting down even though I’m scared and all of those negative feelings are true. I accept what you have to say and know that a person’s trials and tribulations are irrelevant. Victims are like energy vampires and I didn’t intend to come across that way. ” I’m not picking on you specifically. I’m broad-brush painting trends I’ve seen over the years in these spheres. And I know it comes off callous but like, I know other guys will offer sympathy etc, especially other guys in the same headspace (like an MRA or… Read more »
Haven’t watched the video and haven’t done any research into whether it’s legit or not, but this is making the rounds right now and the more stories about this shit that get out there the better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAtrS5t0mi8
http://alienjack.com/
THIS guy, I’d understand if he wanted to just MGTOW for life. But if at some point he decided 10 years from now that he wanted to have women in his life again, the action he’d have to take would be the same as the action a young dude with no baggage would have to take.
Dude’s story sounds legit, some people have known him on Facebook and it seems like it checks out:
Also ran across this documentary again while sifting for details on this other guy and this is a good documentary to watch (don’t spoil the ending ahead of time) if you haven’t seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DZlbA-8dRo
Like I say, I’m not having kids until the deck is more in my favor and I can make sure I won’t end up like these guys.
@YaReally
… well I was hoping to ask you out later this week, but now that you mention it…
lol wut? I never said anything about a stable society or regeneration. A lack of fatherhood won’t prevent new generations, look at ghettos and shit. They’ll just be fucked up and raised by social conditioning which is unfortunate.
And I don’t plan to have kids yet but I’m open to the possibility that I might in my mid/late 40s because I do feel the biological urge to pass on my DNA/genes
My bad. I vaguely remembered comments of yours to that effect, but after googling them I found my memory isn’t 100% accurate:
therationalmale.com/2016/01/25/ovulation-dread/#comment-137477
therationalmale.com/2016/03/14/plan-b/comment-page-2/#comment-146366
Girls have more self-control than most of us would ever have. A girl turns down sex literally hundreds of times a day. Every guy she interacts with or is even in the same ROOM with, wants to fuck her and would fuck her in a heartbeat and is offering her dick like Chris Rock says…so some girl who’s fucked 10 guys in a year, she’s turned DOWN hundreds of thousands of guys. If YOU had 100 girls a day offering you sex, you would be fucking different girls 24/7. lol Yes, girls normally turn down many advances. (Certainly not hundreds… Read more »
Colbert
“Because Colbert is trying to re-wire his brain and learn how to think like they think. ”
Because you are a dog, you want to learn how cats think, because that is how dogs think.
@YaReally, damn, man. I have to step away from the office for a few minutes to get my spirits back up. Depressing shit, but necessary to see.
Hank How do you measure ‘successful”? depends on the guy, but the main thing is to go out and have fun with chicks that are into you. Could be a marathon fuckfest, could just be chilling at the club. thing is you need to have experiences of girls being silly little bundles of fun feminine energy to get past the caustic mindset of “all women are evil evil cunts.” Consider most of those guys DID all these things which is HOW they ended up married/LTR etc. ease up on the KJ’ing… develop your own experiences, or you will just go… Read more »
@ Softek,
That Gingy Man video was some funny shit!
@ YaReally,
I appreciate your responses and your encouragements YaReally 🙂
@ Sentient,
Haha, true dat! Hence the term “a dog chasing his tail just goes round and round in a circle” – lol
“They’re simply rejecting men they don’t want to fuck, most of the time. Those men don’t represent temptation. “It’s simple evo psych. Men, on average, actually have a much larger capacity for self-control, because they have to. Women have little self-control, because they don’t need it.” I think it goes a bit further than that. Women aren’t simply not attracted to unattractive men, the way a man just doesn’t want to bang an unattractive woman. They find the idea of sex with them to be bizarre and repulsive. Their biology drives them away from it. In a similar way that… Read more »
@YaReally
I’d not seen that documentary before. Holy shit that’s just brutal. That’s the kind of woman I would have tagged for a head case within five minutes and dragged my friend away from her.
Sooo I’m spending too much time here this week but fuck it, you guys deserve a story or two. It’s gonna be a bit intense but the intent isn’t to titilate; it’s to illustrate what a desire dynamic looks like to all those dead (or at least syphylitic) bedroom dudes out there who have, like a frog in slowly-heating water, forgotten what cool looks like. Recently I discovered Jagua tattoos. Basically it’s this gel you apply to the skin (I use applicator needles that let me draw like with an ink pen) and it stains the skin dark blue/black for… Read more »
Alright dudes, epic post in mod at this spot. Just thought I’d let ya know since, given the circumstance, it may take longer for Rollo to get it out than usual.
Wow that was fast. Thanks @Rollo.
Godspeed.
“78% of the children in a study who had ADHD as a child, no longer had the disorder when they were 18. Their ADHD resolved over time.” https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/4vy603/78_of_the_children_in_a_study_who_had_adhd_as_a/ “We ascertained ADHD diagnosis in childhood on the basis of mother and teacher reports of 18 symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity-impulsivity” I wonder how many of those teachers of under 18yos were also chicks like the mothers, frustrated by the energy involved in getting rambunctious young boys and their masculine energy to settle down, HMMM… “Participants were from the Environmental Risk Longitudinal Twin Study of 2,232 twin children” So are we asking… Read more »
Yareally Now what could cause bad sleep quality in rambunctious young twin kids in a household where you don’t ask the father (if there is one) his opinion…maybe having no rules (like bedtime, dietary habits, no iPad past 9pm, no staying out late, etc) enforced around the house by a strong male authority figure? Having strange men in your house banging your single mom all night? Mommy coming home in the middle of the night from getting railed? Not being given an outlet at school like recess and gym class to run around and burn off energy incase someone hurts… Read more »
Forge
I’ve tried escalating the dominance a bit but she sets up legit boundaries
I’d suggest these are not “legit” boundaries but frame tests… and respecting the boundaries helps keep the BF in the frame.
The focus on ADHD is probably because there is no other option than doing well in school. Some kids don’t like school and that has become unacceptable.
@Sentient “And when men point out the counter to this… that you – yes you Starbuck – can lead and take control of your family and influence your kids behavior via the mystical process known heretofore as “parenting” – you dismiss it as a bunch of old guys who lock there kids away on farms in imaginary communities… Lolliest of lols…” I know right? Hilarious shit. You should E-Mail that guy with the recent heart surgery who’s video I linked above and tell him he should’ve just manned up instead of being a pussy bitch and he’d have his kids… Read more »
@Sentient Bunch more pussies for ya to educate on how they should’ve just been more badass like you: “I haven’t seen my son in a year or my daughter in 7 months. They’ve been completely brainwashed into their mother’s world view and so they won’t talk to me, respond to my texts, e-mails, phone calls. My heart has been broken, and this is after a 12 yr custody battle, that I can no longer afford to keep up. I fear the same thing happening to me, and grieving the loss of their relationship is literally killing me. I want to… Read more »
@YaReally, cue this up to 14:30
Aversion/revulsion to sexually unattractive people is not just a girl thing. I bet each and every guy in this forum can bring to mind a woman that if she overtly made a pass at him, he would be horrified.
But hey, it’s the lolliest of lols right? Let’s keep pushing guys into a system that’s massively stacked against them in 2016 with chicks that have been brought up fully entitled to use that against them when they’re unhaaaappy! lolololol!! Hey man, it’s only a problem if you’re a fuckin PUSSY, not like Sentient the old badass who married some chick brought up in an earlier culture and earlier court system etc. Keep in mind that men like Sentient are bound to stick to their chosen narrative, no matter what you say. Because they cannot argue for anything else. They… Read more »
@ Forge
Loved the story man. Great stuff.
Hank How do you measure ‘successful”? “”depends on the guy, but the main thing is to go out and have fun with chicks that are into you. Could be a marathon fuckfest, could just be chilling at the club. thing is you need to have experiences of girls being silly little bundles of fun feminine energy to get past the caustic mindset of “all women are evil evil cunts.”” Consider most of those guys DID all these things which is HOW they ended up married/LTR etc. ease up on the KJ’ing… develop your own experiences, or you will just go… Read more »
Rollo you can put a time start on a video
I think I did.
Also, cue up to 20:55, LMAO.
I’m gonna go ahead and just say, I called it over a year ago.