Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because it subjectively means so much to men on an individual basis. “Success” is a relative term, but I intentionally began the Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because an understanding of this principle applies to so many different arenas in a man’s life.
It’s far too easy to conflate Frame (and the hoped-for success that can come about from it) with a power-of-positive-thinking motivational vibe. Developing, maintaining and internalizing a personal Frame isn’t derived from motivational thinking. That’s not to say it doesn’t help, but Frame can align either on realizable realities informed by Red Pill awareness or it can be founded on deeply ingrained investments in Blue Pill conditioning.
For some men, a Blue Pill mindset, and the conditioning principles that formed it, is the foundation of what they convince themselves is a very strong, very ‘correct’, establishment of Frame. It quite literally is the reality into which they expect a woman will want to be a part of and will want to readily cooperate within. The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.
This insistence of women adapting to a Blue Pill Frame is the root of many a Beta man’s downfall when a woman has finally run out of Alpha Fucks options during her Party Years and she’s “turned over a new leaf” in the necessitousness of her Epiphany Phase. Women aging out of the sexual marketplace are only too happy to appear to be a Beta man’s Blue Pill ship that’s finally come in.
Behold, Camelot
I have heard many times, from well-intended Blue Pill men, some variation of the Just Be Yourself self-righteous expectation that women should want to enter into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) strong, but the Blue Pill foundation it’s built upon is flawed because it is influenced and conditioned by the Feminine Imperative that always expects him to focus outwardly instead of making himself his own mental point of origin.
If they were honest, these are the guys who will Beta Hamster their Blue Pill ideal of the ‘right’ girl being any one who acknowledges his Blue Pill Frame.
There’s usually some self-evincing rationale that sounds similar when a Blue Pill guy has his Frame challenged by a woman unwilling to play along with his “world”. Whether he comes to this by rejection or simply observing women’s solipsism and duplicity, the reasoning is never about the validity of what his Frame is based on, but rather the disqualification of a woman who contradicts his ego-investments in it (i.e. they become “low quality women” to him).
However, many a White Knight will have what, for all purposes, is a very strong personal Frame. This dedication to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset is central to their ego-investments and it’s a big reason why it’s so difficult to unplug a man from it apart from some trauma that shakes his investing his personality in it. And even then, it’s far easier to disqualify the women who want nothing to do with his Frame than it is to get him to reconsider his fundamental, Blue Pill, old books belief-set.
As I was picking apart the conditions that lead to a man like Steve from last week’s post to becoming what he is, I found it’s important to highlight the determination with which most men will defend their Blue Pill investments and defend the investments of other Blue Pill men with whom it aligns with.
From Enter White Knight:
Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.
The more invested a Blue Pill man is in his Frame, the more ardent a White Knight he’s likely to be. The problem in all of this is that his dedication to that Frame, and the expectation that ‘quality women’ will rationally and deductively appreciate it, is in error. Women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate their reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality.
It’s easy to spot (and get annoyed with) a White Knight when he comes to the aid of M’Lady on an internet forum, but the defender-of-the-faith behavior also extends to other men, like himself, given to the same Blue Pill Frame and ideals. From a Red Pill perspective we know this is virtue signaling, but it’s also indicative of reaffirming a White Knight’s dedication to a Frame and belief-set that requires a constant reassurance in the face of so much observable contradiction.
Blue Pill Frame / Red Pill Awareness
In the manosphere, there’s a tendency to characterize the Blue Pill mindset with non-assertive “people pleaser” men conditioned from an early age to defer to women and sublimate themselves to the Feminine Imperative. For the most part, that generalization fits, but I think it’s important to understand that it’s entirely possible for otherwise very Alpha men to invest themselves in Blue Pill paradigms and then build Frames up around them.
While I was writing this, reader Softek had a very good take on how Frame can be applicable from both an Alpha and a Beta perspective:
Steve’s relationship is PERFECT.
It is in EXACT ALIGNMENT with his Frame.
His Frame, which he voluntarily maintains, is that of a Beta male. Weak, submissive, and priming him perfectly to be cuckolded.
Similarly, my relationship with my GF is perfect.
It’s in exact alignment with my Frame.
This is how it always works. It’s the only way it CAN work. Your Frame is your reality, period, end of story. I’m sticking to this idea of women having no Frame, because I think it can help men to realize that the man’s Frame – as far as the man is concerned – is the only thing that matters.
I’m going to stop here because this is one of his few assertions I don’t entirely agree with. Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance.
The easy example is the Frame grab I outlined in The Talk where a woman (consciously or otherwise) seeks to assert her experience as being the primary Frame or when a man abdicates his Frame to satisfy a woman’s need for long-term security. The other side of this is that even when women are considered ‘powerless’, and they are acted upon (hypoagency), their solipsistic experience is still central to the nature of any Frame because that presumption of powerlessness informs her solipsism and she builds her Frame around it.
Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it. I understand what Softek is getting at here, but just observe Beta men who are trapped in submissive roles to their dominant wives and you’ll see how he’s acted upon within her Frame.
If your Frame is what you really want it to be, you’re all set. You will simply not put up with BS, so it won’t be necessary to calculate what kind of BS or shit tests are being thrown at you, because you’ll automatically pass them without even being conscious of them.
At a deeper level, there is no your reality vs. her reality, or who has more power in the relationship.
It all goes back to your relationship with yourself. Your Frame. You decide what you accept in your life, and what you don’t accept.
Everyone has been telling me to get out of my relationship. Why? Their Frame is different. Maybe they have more self-respect. Maybe they have more confidence. But ultimately, their Frame is different.
They would not put up with half the BS I’ve put up with. They would’ve been gone a long, long time ago and onto greener pastures.
I’m getting what I deserve. I’m getting the relationship that is PERFECT for me, which means it’s perfectly aligned with my [current, malleable, changeable] Frame.
Frame isn’t set in stone. It’s ours to control, and ours alone, because it belongs to us each individually.
If I want a different relationship, I need to change my Frame. What do I want? What am I willing to accept? What am I not willing to accept?
This is a very important point, to understand that Steve’s relationship is PERFECT….for him. A complete match with his Frame.
If you dig into WHY he’s in this relationship, it’s for that reason and that reason alone: it resonates with his Frame. It resonates with the perception he has of himself, and the rules he’s laid out for himself in his life.
He is doing exactly what an Alpha does: living 100% by his Frame.
It’s just that his Frame is weak and submissive instead of strong and self-serving.
It’s funny when you look at things like this. When you realize you’re already “Alpha” in the sense that you know how to live 100% in your Frame….what’s stopping you from changing your Frame?
You already know what it’s like to hold Frame. Not everyone can stay in an abusive, sexless relationship. It takes a pretty extreme Beta to put up with all that. I am a fucking Beta God. I will put up with more abuse than any man on this planet. I’m the most abject Beta in the world.
(I’m being deliberately hyperbolic here, bear with me)
The most abject Beta is simply the other side of the Apex Alpha coin.
Both stubbornly hold to their Frame. The Beta holds to his Frame to his inevitable cuckolding and destruction; the Alpha holds to his Frame to his self-gratification regardless of who tries to shame him or bring him down.
We need to stop thinking “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good” and realize that Frame is subjective.
I may not agree with some of this, and considering Softek’s dependence on maintaining his relationship it’s easy to see why he feels this way, however, he does touch upon some foundational aspects of Frame. Yes, women get the men they deserve, or in this case, women enter into relations with the men who align with what they’ve created.
As I mention in Frame, yours should be a world women will want to enter or you will be entering her Frame. That said beware the motives of the woman who would eagerly embrace a Beta’s Frame. Those motives are rooted in necessity and not genuine desire. Just ask Saira Khan.
Understanding that a solid sense of Frame – literally creating a reality in which you live and expect others to interact within – is central to success is not a difficult concept to grasp for most men. Whether or not they feel an ownership of that Frame, or a motive to employ it, is what defines men’s understanding of it. And this discomfort men have in insisting upon a solid, active, Alpha Frame is precisely what the Feminine Imperative has sought to condition into men for going on five generations now.
Recently I’ve been commenting on yet another article of feminist triumphalism, glorying in the statistics that women are far happier after a divorce. This is standard feminist boilerplate, but the bloody handed cruelty of articles like this always ignore that the “men” they denigrate are the direct results of a generational conditioning that leads men to swallow Blue Pill idealism and abdicate Frame in the name of a nebulous egalitarian equalism.
As 39% more men put a gun in their mouths after a divorce, women will bemoan a generation of men the Feminine Imperative created to abdicate their Frame. So yes, when it comes to men becoming despondent and suicidal after having their Blue Pill idealistic ego-investments destroyed by the same imperative that invested it in them, yes, “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good”.
“also, you may want to acquaint yourself with the RIGHT music.”
ODB – Got your money. Impossible to listen to that song without cracking a smile. “God made dirt and dirt bust your ass!” lol.
“Guys will really get a lot from mastery of the Golden Rule mindset allowing for the emergence of the Platinum Rule mindset” Sure but one must understand that not everyone follows the rules,rather some psychopaths take advantage of those that do.One must learn to spot this type of user and treat them accordingly.No soup for you! An EMT must put on gloves heppa mask goggles,before treating a patient.Looking out for #1 is imperitive before helping others,or one wont last. If a guy builds a ten by 12 shack next to the house you are planning to fix and flip,do you… Read more »
Sentient: I said: “the Platinum Rule only for those willing to more completely destroy others for the sake of their own personal Platinum Rule” You said: “You get it… you just don’t like it. But it is what it is at the end of the day.” But the success of the operation of that attitude is contingent on the availability of dupes in the social environment, and the dupes must be well represented in order for your strategy to succeed…… like probably at least the small majority or perhaps large minority. But, …. as the conditions so degrade (more dupes… Read more »
@scray @hank
(to Hank) also, you may want to acquaint yourself with the RIGHT music.
like, if you want to get into the right mindsets for being alpha and being cool….
…it helps to immerse yourself in those types of mindsets.
Yeah, baby, yeaaaah!!! Make me come again.
Hank,
think of yourself asbe the alpha player who is the subject of this song:@TheOneTrackMan
Have you read The Dosadi Experiment? It’s about a society which is absent dupes and everyone practices the Platinum Rule. They are artificially constrained and stressed to maximize violence. However, absent trust, they still manage to cooperate wonderfully. Without the artificial constraints, they likely would have attained a very fine society. Even love occurs on Dosadi, surprisingly.
Stuffinbox – yeah I agree – the Golden Rule mindset is worse than useless if one cannot recognize those that don’t abide. Golden Rule is based on the principle of fair reciprocation. The rules of fair reciprocation change according to context. Requires alot of savvy to operate as such. But people generally got savvy (or have the capacity to obtain it). Mid-level-smart psychopaths tend to get punished in the long run. The very bright ones ….not so much …. that is a problem ….. always has been. But humans, with our aptitude for self-agency, tend to gang up on the… Read more »
@asd, sjf When faced with this incremental sweetly-voiced sweet test, sorry shit test, our guy decided to refuse sex: At this point, I am somewhat annoyed by her not apologizing. She knows the boundaries, and she knows how I operate with women. She took a night that we were both enjoying and decided to take advantage of our fun to make a power play. Such behavior is completely unacceptable, and I knew that if I wanted to maintain this relationship as it is, I had to respond decisively. … I calmly poured myself some water and told her that I… Read more »
TheMan is operating from a Zero Sum Game (progressive) mentality, which, along with his egalitarian shit, is part of the plan to destroy western civilization and the Christian religion. All this has been discussed decades past.
I must admit to feeling frustrated at the minute, I’m a natural alpha when it comes to dealing with men. I can speak with confidence, argue without getting emotional, demonstrate skill, be patient, stand up for myself verbally + physically, and set definite boundaries with those whom I interact with. Example, I broke my wrist last night playing sport (we were playing a really nasty bunch who knew all the tricks of gamesmanship to give themselves an edge) in the first 5 minutes after a cynical foul (still played the rest of the match and didn’t notice the pain because… Read more »
Golden Rule is based on the principle of fair reciprocation.
Nope. The GR is based on abundance and an expectation of an inheritance. Only for those with faith.
More shit from TheConfusedMan.
@Monkey
I can come up with a witty opener, but after that I get stuck for things to say.
scray has mentioned routines to stack. Others as well. Did you miss them?
” . . . absent trust, they still manage to cooperate wonderfully.”
In the absence of trust you can trust that other people will be untrustworthy.
It doesn’t matter so much what the rules are, but that the rules have a minimum level of predictability.
You can live quite easily under a tyrant who mercilessly, but consistently, enforces his rules. Under a tyrant who mercilessly gaslights you, you will go mad.
@redlight
…and you screwed up immediately with, “You think I don’t see you enough?” You let her be the arbiter of how much time you spend together. You gave her the authority. You entered her frame. Do you see that?
asd – doesn’t the practice of the Platinum Rule on Dosadi often lead to instant death?
Golden Rule is based on the principle of fair reciprocation. The rules of fair reciprocation change according to context. Requires alot of savvy to operate as such. But people generally got savvy (or have the capacity to obtain it). The golden rule is not based on reciprocation,rather what can i sleep with. If an alcoholic asks to borrow money i can be sure he won’t reciprocate,if i give him the money he will get drunk and forget about it.On the other hand if i refuse he may go into dt’s and die.A drink doesn’t cost much so i give him… Read more »
@redlight
You opened the drama gates by falling on your own beta sword, lol.
@redlight
asd – doesn’t the practice of the Platinum Rule on Dosadi often lead to instant death?
Surely, and you aren’t paying attention to the Dosaid context, are you? lol, we don’t live on Dosadi. Even on Dosadi, there was great cooperation. But that doesn’t support your narrative, so you ignore it.
asd:
I said: “Golden Rule is based on the principle of fair reciprocation.”
You said: “Nope. The GR is based on abundance and an expectation of an inheritance. Only for those with faith.”
But trust and cooperation can occur within an environment of scarcity (in fact it seems to have been more prevalent in harsher environments). Not grasping the relevance of your point.
@asdgamer
I did, I saw the Mystery stripper girlfriend story, and the vomit story, but I need to come up with something that’s authentic, I’ve never been good at fibs, it’s written across my face when I do.
@adsgamer
The stories do demonstrate the principle however, so I just need to fit that round my own life.
“also, you may want to acquaint yourself with the RIGHT music.”
Celine Dion – It’s all coming back to me now. Another one for a good laugh. Nice little alpha widow song. Apparently now popular at weddings! We’re all doomed.
@asdgamer
Just to add, routines for me seem like an odd thing, I want to be at the point where the conversations just flow naturally, like it does when I’m talking to men.
Stuffinbox
“The golden rule has nothing to do with reciprocation.”
You treat others well because you want to be treated well. Reciprocation in that sense. That is the basic impetus for GR.
“I want to be at the point where the conversations just flow naturally . . .”
See George and Gracie.
http://www.lifetimetv.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/landscape/George%20Burns%20and%20Gracie%20Allen.jpg
The man
Try the rules of the road,from Sunshine the pier rat Huntington pier summer of 1977,”What goes around comes around.” No reciprocation there,just simple reap what you sow,good or bad,no escape.Alot of defered sentences as a matter of course.
@kfg
You mean Burns and Allen? Could you explain why? Or are you mucking about?
@monkey
where the conversations just flow naturally, like it does when I’m talking to men.
…because girls are into logical conversations because girls think like men do. Do you get my point? It takes practice to talk to a girl and spike her emotions. Real-time, live, up close and personal. None of that is natural to men.
@TheConfusedMan
You treat others well because you want to be treated well. Reciprocation in that sense. That is the basic impetus for GR.
Only in YOUR imagination, lol.
asd:
“TheMan is operating from a Zero Sum Game (progressive) mentality, which, along with his egalitarian shit, is part of the plan to destroy western civilization and the Christian religion. All this has been discussed decades past.”
What? – Golden Rule is not Zero Sum Game because GR instead leads to exponentially synergetic benefits.
Rene Girard helps put Christianity in a coherent historical context. Why not go have look see. Christianity, at it’s root, does not advocate for Zero Sum Game either.
@kfg
Green Acres is another show where you can see red pill truths. Oliver is very logical, yet he gets played by his wife over and over and over.
asd – “Only in YOUR imagination, lol.”
Are you a basic idiot? GR = do unto others as you would have them do unto you. What did yo think we were talking about wrt GR?
@Monkey I saw the Mystery stripper girlfriend story, and the vomit story, but I need to come up with something that’s authentic Don’t you have fun stories from you life? Mix up sexual with nonsexual stories so that you don’t come across as a one-track horn dog. If you don’t have sexual stories, then tell stories where you risked your life or limb or finances and build them up, embellish them, tell how you felt, etc. Make the girl feel what you felt! I’ve got a ton of non-sexual risky stories. Fireworks, bullies, fights, almost getting kidnapped by commie guerrillas.… Read more »
@TheMan
GR = do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Yep, and there is nothing in there about reciprocation or expectation except what you read into it.
Golden Rule is not Zero Sum Game because GR instead leads to exponentially synergetic benefits.
Applied intelligently, Platinum Rule leads to win/win outcomes for all. Adam Smith wrote about this waaaay back.
“You mean Burns and Allen?” Yes. “Could you explain why?” Because you cannot have a naturally flowing conversation with a woman the way you would with a man. A woman is not a man. A woman does not think like a man. Hence a woman does not converse like a man. What you can have is a naturally flowing conversation that a man has with a woman. George and Gracie’s stage routines were all built around an idealized model of a naturally flowing man/woman conversation. The skeleton is: The man asks a social question. The woman talks. If the man… Read more »
The Man
Some good rules of reciprocation.Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.Don’t shit where you eat.
GR if you can live with being a thief i can live without my wrench,but don’t hit me and i find out about it.
GR i keep my side of the street clean you can live with yours.
asd – OK – look Golden Rule is not altruism or self-sacrifice. It’s cooperation. Somebody gotta get the mindset going. Then others follow. Give the other some chances (let’s say 3). If it’s a no go its a no go – not much you can do about it then – it takes two to tango and all that. Yes – that is what I am reading into it because that is what everybody reads into it. To be fair, it’s the egalitarian, but of course that is a swear word here. So using a more down homsey term for Rollo’s… Read more »
” . . . look Golden Rule is not altruism or self-sacrifice. It’s cooperation.”
@ Blax
Hope you get time to read my comment from this morning,would like to hear your thoughts.
@The Man: ” Let’s already just stop trying to avoid understanding each other – eh?”
If the Arabs stop shooting, there will be peace.
If the Jews stop shooting, they will be annihilated.
@ Redlight
“The dialogue seems unreal to me, but I’m no expert.”
That reddit post is simply silly.
He’s not cool, confident, in charge competent leader. Merely faux alpha asshole. He seems like a whiny butt-hurt adolescent late teenager whose not getting what he wants. He better well stock up on a whole dishwasher full of plates, because he’s going to loose a few, and then a few more. And I bet he’s tall and good looking because he’s not very bright.
I don’t see any learning/teaching value there.
@kfg
The man asks a social question.
The woman talks.
If the man listens to what the woman is saying, sooner or later he will go, “Wait. WHAT?”
Rinse and repeat.
George is very shrewd. He does A&A and Ambush and Reframe like a boss. Always with Amused Mastery. He never expects his wife to think like a man does.
The Man “But the success of the operation of that attitude is contingent on the availability of dupes in the social environment, and the dupes must be well represented in order for your strategy to succeed” I know how this is going to go… so this might be my last kick of this can… False premise, however it plays out this way often. What you call “dupes” I call folks blinded by their hopes and dreams, and sadly there is a majority of those in the world. And they do make the going much easier when things come to a… Read more »
ChunkyMonkey “I’m a natural alpha when it comes to dealing with men. I can speak with confidence, argue without getting emotional, demonstrate skill, be patient, stand up for myself verbally + physically, and set definite boundaries with those whom I interact with.” Love ya Monkey but this is not “natural” Alpha… a natural Alpha is first and foremost a leader… the natural leader that other men will appoint and defer to. Unless you left this out of your description, you are a natural greater beta according to Vox’s descriptions. On your team are you the captain/Coach and are you so… Read more »
Alright alright alright @sentient Like the vomit story…. No. No. No. It triggers a gross reaction and conveys that you would be desperate enought to fuck in vomit. Get that? lol. That was just a filler. I was just hasing out a storyoutline then. The version I will probably go with will be a little closer to scrays: say that she wanted your cock but it was awkward taking her to the bathroom because your jealous friends kept saying shit like ‘raaaaape.’ that can actually come off as leader of men….like, the followers jealous of the leader. @scray get what… Read more »
“It’s also an aquired taste. Anyway, MSI has a lot of energy and is completely fucking off the wall and ridiculous. A lot of their songs make no fucking sense. So it gets me out of logical mode and more into stage just grooving with things, pinging off the enviroment, and not thinking too much.” Perhaps Focus Factor supplements and Adderall would be more efficient and effective. Perhaps it is after my time, but it is not good enough quality to bother listening to. Listening to a girl vomit would probably be more enjoyable. And less arbitrary (based on random… Read more »
@hank got a few quibbles Subcomms are genrally good lol if they were generally good you’d be going on hella Day 2’s and getting way more investment from the women. Long time ago, around time of these past FRs (5 redhead in DHV, friends GF) had a 6/7 sit next to me in class. She gave a a bunch of IOI — crossed her leg over so her skirt was hiked up and glanced over with a knowing, dirty smirk. I was like . . .uhh. . .what do I do. So I just ind of ignored her. I only… Read more »
“Lol, its probably a little after kfg and SJF’s time”
We’re not dead yet. Maybe tomorrow.
“It’s also an aquired taste lol.”
Ya got me there. Hard I like, but frenetic you can keep.
“And its in reference to Clarissa Explains it All . . .”
Aaaah, yes. I remember when Nickelodeon was worth watching quite well.
I’m also skeptical of a band that would take the following quote and use the nihilistic derogatory tactical-non-virtues as their name.
Platinum Rule would sound better. But it would be in-congruent with their musical skill level.
@Sentient Not a problem. Given Vox’s definitions I’m conflating satisfaction in certain aspects of my life with alpha. Mastering the game is next. Captain? No, the best description would be goon. @kfg “Because you cannot have a naturally flowing conversation with a woman the way you would with a man. A woman is not a man. A woman does not think like a man. Hence a woman does not converse like a man.” Agreed, and bitter experience agrees with this too. “What you can have is a naturally flowing conversation that a man has with a woman.” This is what… Read more »
…continued….
That is to say, I want to be at a point where conversation with women feels natural and fun, not with me thinking in the back of my kind “Oh Christ! Now I’ve got to DHV, etc., where am I now, err that would be A3…or is it?”.
This is important, because sad to say, I’ve never had that, not in my family, nor with past girl friends (I don’t even know how I was with a woman for 10 years, I had nothing to say to the poor girl most of the time).
ChunkyMonkey “I just couldn’t see how this constituted a real life conversation” It’s not… it is game though. Cats are not dogs! http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4672536/meow-o.gif “That is to say, I want to be at a point where conversation with women feels natural and fun,” A game conversation will get to this… with some practice… and once in a while you will get more of a real conversation connection. But it will ethereal and she will likely not profess the same views later, because her feelings will have changed and emotion is the only truth to a woman. “(I don’t even know how… Read more »
The man asks a social question that gets a girl to actually tell him about herself. The girls talks. The man listen to what the woman is saying , sooner or later he will go “Wait. What?” And qualify her, elicit values from her and get her to understand that you you know her well. He gets her to volunteer her dreams, hopes, passions, motivations, and story. “…how connected to you a given person feels has nothing to do with how well that person knows you, and everything to do with how well that person thinks you know her. Which… Read more »
@ Chunky Conversation tactic with a girl Example: I’m talking to a HB7 that has two separate college undergraduate degrees. She works for her parents landcaping company (grass mowing) and has primary job as a bartender-ette. I used to work as a commercial landscaping foreman when I was 18 to 20 y.o. I know the feeling of lanscaping work. I don’t mention I used to do that, but I continue a conversation thread about the feelings of landscaping and day to day experiences: “What is the best feeling you get in that job, Miss HB& on particular varied things you… Read more »
@scray LOOKS DEBATE 2.0 lol We re on ALMOST exactly the same page, but there is this TINY little bit that we have to argue over. Firstly I ALWAYS said I was a beginner. I am only pointing out that I am not a completely social akward noob like a lot of hardcase are. Thats why guys like yareally will say “Compaired to most noobs,your general socializing is off the charts.” and other guys are like “yeah, it took me about 3 months of going out before I would cold approach girls in daygame venues.” I did that like first… Read more »
Chunky
If you are really asking how do i get to rapport with women… that is a totally different question…
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/fashion/no-37-big-wedding-or-small.html?_r=0
Here is a starting off point of rapport type questions… search the archives and CH and you will find dozens of further examples…
But the trick is in when you go there… which is when the A1 A2 A3 are important… You don’t go there until that point is passed…
Of course the more you have life experiences in and out of your profession and the more comfortable that you are and have qualities of a prince, the more you can concentrate in conversation on being fun and adding value. (So there is always pre-conversational longstanding masculine self improvement and maniacally have deep seated pursuits and passions that are self evident). Simple things: be a giver not a taker in conversations. Give her the gift of an up and down emotional roller coaster. Say anything except something that that will make her indifferent. I never actually watched George and Gracie,… Read more »
@Scray Part of the reason for not knowing what to say while gaming is the whole anxiety that goes with rejection and a people-pleasing personality. I never thought I had this until I started to learn and understand game. That’s why the routines were so helpful. Now I just understand the structures and steps and move more slowly in and out of them. I was at a salsa party the other night. There was a cute Japanese girl I started gaming a week back. She added me on Facebook of her own accord so I realized it was an IOI… Read more »
Thanks for the words @SJF. Think it boils down to a) believe in myself and b) do something with that self.
Not trying to vanish on y’all here but I gotta be out there cracking! Big project needs doing by next week and lots more building up as I sit here worrying.
I’ll be around as much as I can. I’ll bring FR’s 😀
@Andy
Lol I need friends like you IRL.
Craazzzyyyy busy. Ima holla at everybody… @ scray Huge LOL on the NIN-closer tune. That fucking song has been playing in my haid for YEARS now, in the background, like a damn soundtrack or something. Since you typed it out and I read it, now I can’t stop hearing it!!!! Lately some old ghosts have popped back up in my mind. It’s allll good though, the song makes me smile and puts me in a wildly good mood. [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaIZWjItReI&w=854&h=480%5D I’m sure the neighbors don’t appreciate it when I roll into my driveway late at night with zz top blaring,… Read more »
Oh, FWB was at a place today I was meeting people. Wasn’t expecting that. Super sheepish, like she was wondering if I was gonna be dramatic, but I just acted normal. When she asked me something (advice for job I have experience in) I gave a friendly, authoritative answer and just left it at that. Then she kinda followed me around (I focused on other things), cracked the hell up at a story I made up on the spot about mistaking an obese man for a pregnant woman, and then she made innuendo about sex positions when my original audience… Read more »
@ Rollo Tomassi Over the years you have had commenters that don’t actually think that Red Pill and Game are True or Acceptable. Truth isn’t what the goal is. Even if Insanitybytes, Emily and The Man don’t think any of this stuff is Truth, they are missing the point: It is Power. And an advancement of the Masculine Imperative’s strategy. But more importantly an individual mans strategy (Heh, bottoms up approach). This paragraph from Hariri’s “Sapiens” encapsulates the utility of your blog: “In 1620 Francis Bacon published a scientific manifesto titled The New Instrument. In it he argued that ‘knowledge… Read more »
@Forge
“um
lol?”
Umm, sounds like you Kept Frame and a Stoic Masculine Mindset. Game On, Brother.
Hey Sentient – I was in large-scale commercial real estate management, and construction project management, as well as running some real estate related businesses. I worked for a very large real estate management and development company. But of course the context there was to align your focus as manager of the company’s resources, with the company’s focus, which is to increase profit and valuations first and foremost – absolutely all considerations take a back seat to that and actually are taken into consideration only by way of being of service to (or drag on) the profit motive, despite the lip… Read more »
@SJF: “Perhaps he acted as if he wasn’t listening, but was actually keenly aware of what she was or wasn’t saying.” Even when he wasn’t physically present. One of the running gags in the sitcom portion of the show (the show always closed with a bit of stage act) was that George would go into his den, turn on the TV, which would be showing his show live, which he would comment on to the viewing audience. This gave him an air of omniscient amused mastery both within and without the show. He didn’t just break the fourth wall, he… Read more »
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_3gnwNc3kY&w=854&h=480%5D
@hank I have never had a gf. Never kissed a girl. Never touched a girl. Basically all this stuff it new to me. So i am doing these things for the first time, and its usually in an open venue, in front of lots people. but also I am only pointing out that I am not a completely social akward noob like a lot of hardcase are. okay… well… which is it? like, if you’ve never touched a girl then ya that is ‘completely social awkward noob hardcase’ territory. Thats why guys like yareally will say “Compaired to most noobs,your… Read more »
Blaximus
July 1st, 2016 at 2:39 pm
Be A Man. Regardless of outside forces and pressure and lack. They have zero to do with your manhood/masculinity. Manufacturing jobs left to china? Well, that sucks. Give no fucks in the end. It doesn’t/can’t define you. You wanna build shit? Build shit for yourself and your amusement.
Yeah. Get a hobby. Mine is designing small computers: Space-Time Productions
Or flashlights. http://classicalvalues.com/2016/06/risking-rewards/
@ SJF Thanks for the kind words sir. ” Just like the guys know Hank has DHV and the girls don’t know it yet, you have altruism in regards to Joe. He just doesn’t know it yet. And no matter what happens you make your GD better by being a god-father example to her. Interesting, the way you handle their situations independently. I do that all the time with friends and family–i.e. would give my daughter advice independently of advice to her boyfriend to make each one advance their best strategies for themselves.” You know, a lot of whatever successes… Read more »
The Man July 7th, 2016 at 5:36 pm Not much time left? True. Nothing happening? You don’t hang out in the right places. There is quite a bit happening. And funny enough TRM is preparing some men for what is coming. And it isn’t even political except for some comments. Understanding the FI and getting free of it mentally is a huge step in understanding politics and getting control of it. Let me leave you with this bit of political understanding. The female party is the Democrats and the male party is the Republicans. Not exactly true. But true enough.… Read more »
“consider the possibility that you don’t yet have a game style”
He has (his own) style which he is too, too comfortable with….And he needs method which you and YaReally are teaching him. But he is slightly resistant to follow method PUA.
The proof is in the pudding. And he’s not tasting pudding. The only true mark of PUA mastery (or in Game competency) is in getting laid. All else is mastery in self amusing.
@ Blaximus
Yep Gracie is feeling good about herself. Because of George. And George seemed confident enough with his pudding.
“You know, a lot of whatever successes I’ve managed over the years is due to a man/men taking time out of their lives to patiently explain, help and encourage me. Looking back, I stand on the shoulders of a whole bunch of great men that shared things with me. Things that I needed, even before I ever realized that I needed them.” Altruism and egalitarian behavior is best shared in Kin altruism. Kinship altruism is altruistic behaviour whose evolution is driven by kin selection. Kin altruism is an observed behavior. It doesn’t have to be real kin. It can be… Read more »
@Blaximus “@ SJF Thanks for the kind words sir.” The example you and Rollo set for men is truly remarkable. A total full-out masculine beacon in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.. Shit you posted here 18 months ago really stepped my game up and changed the course of my life. (X100, of course, for Rollo.) That stuff helps guys set FRAME. Just keep it up and don’t pause to be sentimental. You don’t need to or Rollo doesn’t need to thank guys the me for complementing you guys. Your Frame is an example. It’s real, its… Read more »
@ stuffinbox ” Good looking out,on your 4th red pill fr.@ all this is the other side of the coin. ” Blax as a 55yo family man,i find myself in a similar situation,as a father and grandfather all i really want is for the young ones to be happy.It has become quite clear that their individual happiness cannot exist in a blue pill frame.You can raise your children to be honest hard working loving individuals,then hollywood,media hype,pier pressure and players come along and throw a wrench in the spokes.Time to nut up.” ** Stuff, my take on this is much… Read more »
@ The Man “At some point we are gonna leave the current system of the social ordering being so contingent on the current economic model, behind ….. and create something better.” That future cannot be predicted by Determinism. The future is not predictable. At all. A bottoms up approach does not mean you save the world. It means you save yourself. You make you better. Sapiens culture/societies will never bend down to give a shit about you. (That doesn’t mean you can’t make a difference in the people around you–ref. Blax and Rollo who are saving people from themselves.) Relationships… Read more »
@ The Man Lol, wtf are you talking about now??? I always get lost a paragraph in. Take it Eeeaaasssyyy man. ” Or does everybody here think they are so badass that they will slay everybody else that they may judge is a detriment to them, when this alternative future is created, by way of promoting a mindset that sponsors a quickening advance towards the tipping point I alluded to? There is always going to be a badder badass (who may only be short lived), but nevertheless some of these guys might not mind taking a few billion down with… Read more »
“It is impossible to predict or control the future, ESPECIALLY today.
No one knows what the future holds, we do the best that we can.”
As always, not having read you and in after you: Like Minds.
Stoic Minds.
Bottoms up, as always with self generated Power. Top down is not controllable or predictable.
@Blax “Daddy means you’re not allowed to give up 100%. Love, tough or otherwise will always be the order of the day. Oh, and never, ever stop giving the hugs when required. There’s something about daddy-hugs that’s different from the rest of the world. Someone or something has to be the steady rock when things go sideways. That will be you sir. Part of the deal. ” Yes sir Iv’e got this,it is sometimes funny,i’ll text her with directions at 6am then she will respond “got it” then a few minutes later i will get another text,i’m thinking what now,she… Read more »
@ stuff
” Yes sir Iv’e got this,it is sometimes funny,i’ll text her with directions at 6am then she will respond “got it” then a few minutes later i will get another text,i’m thinking what now,she writes”I love you”.”
3 words without any provocation. That tells you 100,000 words worth right there.
When I get that odd, out of nowhere text from my young’in, well…don’t tell anybody… but I get a strange lump in my throat.
But that lump is just for me to acknowledge.
Then it’s back to the grind.
“Oh, and never, ever stop giving the hugs when required. There’s something about daddy-hugs that’s different from the rest of the world. Someone or something has to be the steady rock when things go sideways.”
Got that right.
M Simon
Yes battle lines going forward politically will be red pill vs blue pill… Not democrat or republican. Between those who see things as they really are vs those who see things how they wish they are.
“The world is what it is. It’s beautiful and deadly all at once. It cycles between extremes because of humans. Humans will never be all of one mind. Ever.” I truly apologize for posting so much. But this whole discussion in this thread is made so much more understandable by reading Yuval Hariri’s book “Sapiens”. (Available by the usual means including Yareally’s–and don’t tell anyone–, my preferred method.) Holding your breath out of hope for a different outcome is not a strategy. Humans are humans. Out of the swamp and uncontrollable evolutionarily. No control over outcomes after getting out of… Read more »
@scray Whoohoo. Solved one issue we have so like, if you’ve never touched a girl then ya that is ‘completely social awkward noob hardcase’ territory. WRONG. That’s sexual, manonwoman shit SOCIAL AWKWARDNESS is when you can’t approach strangers, don’t know how to win people over, don’t know how to get in groups. I am definitely NOT socially awkward. That’s how I can open a set and 10 seconds be sitting down next to them in an engaging convo. Or use jester method to win over people right fast. So it isnt BALLS, I just am experienced doing it. But an… Read more »
last quote @ SJF, forgot to mark it
@Forge the Sky @SJF No offense SJF, I heart you and all, but Forge: don’t shit where you eat. This isn’t the 50s where it was acceptable to fuck your secretary as you poured a glass of scotch and lol’ed with your Mad Men co-workers. This is Sexual Harrassment Lawsuit No Consequences For Women Anonymous Blogging Post Screencaps Of Your Txts 2016. You fuck your co-worker and that’s great, you’ll have a blast…until the day she demands commitment and you won’t give it or you say something she takes offense to or she finds another girl’s blonde hairs on your… Read more »
“don’t tell anybody… but I get a strange lump in my throat.”Yup me too.
Reminds me of big John,He somehow earned the nickname “puddin” One of the guys slipped and called him cupcake,he corrected him” dont call me cupcake it’s puddin damnit”.
got to hit the sack,today was my day off,working all weekend on a trade deal,would have rather paid cash,but i got skills man and skills are in demand around here,moreso than cash even.
Check you guys sunday.
The Man “Get enough consensus at the individual level and then everything can change. But we cannot yet conceive of this promising future, so …… nothing takes at the individual level, nothing spreads, nothing changes.” Funny thing… I have 5 kids. They all want new Iphone’s… running $700 a pop w/o contract. 100% consensus. A few of the older kids have some money… the younger ones not so much. They debated amongst themselves about perhaps the ones with more money paying for the iphones of the ones with less money. This debate went on for not very long… At the… Read more »
@scray @hank like, if you’ve never touched a girl then ya that is ‘completely social awkward noob hardcase’ territory. I was at a boardgame meetup tonight. I touched several girls briefly. One time I grabbed a girl’s hand and made her touch a card…all in fun…but the point is, I felt entitled to do it and the world didn’t end. It was a little bit awkward because nobody else was doing it. It was a little bold. (Yeah, the men at these things are sometimes a little awkward.) I was teasing several girls all night, but other men were doing… Read more »
I actually love you too YaReally. And I love the dynamic advice you gave Forge to text only, and specifically what to do. I am actually paying attention in class with Forge, though. Thing is I know him and can intuit his in real life specifics. (Maybe you didn’t get the fact that I have reported that I have hooked up in real life with Forge and as a 55 y.o. male consider him as a 30 or so male my equal). And know him as quality as a writer and as a cool guy in real life. I will… Read more »
@YaReally
because you can’t even SEE the little tiny subtle iois that a Scray or me will pounce on
Sometimes I can see them and sometimes not in my social circle. Girls tend to really dial it down in social circles. Girls aren’t wearing much war paint and don’t play with their hair/brush it back, etc.
Where can I find the skinny on social circle game?
@Sentient “100% consensus I should buy the phones… 0% phone actualization rate.” Besides explaining this to The Man, parable and all. How do you explain the dynamic to your wife and kids.What is the issue. Of course it is not the money. I don’t know, though. How have the girls bought their own phones at this point in time? No matter what it is very understandable. I listen to Dr. Laura and her logic is YGFSM. A child doesn’t need a cell phone and a parent would be a fool to provide one for them. In her world you are… Read more »
SJF
Simple… they don’t need them. They have phones. If they want $700 phones, they can acquire them with their own means.
The explanation runs thus: “No.” “you have a phone” and if pressed “because I said so.” [you must remember that old chestnut right? 100% effective]
“Simple… they don’t need them. They have phones.”
Asked and answered. Simple premise. Silly girls asking.
“because I said so.” [you must remember that old chestnut right? 100% effective].
Ummm. Yes?
100% Effective when getting laid. No questions asked. Cue Game.
@hank Lol ya. It is man/woman shit. That’s the social context you’re putting yourself in, right? Just like climbing a mountain doeant make you better with chicks, talking decently well with dudes doesn’t make you any better at talking with chicks. So….when it comes to talking like you have experience with women, I’m not sure why it’s oh so crazy that maybe ya your subcomms will sort of reveal this inexperience. But hey I’m @ya@hank There’s nothing wrong with being funny and spiking BT. My whole thing is that hank focusing on gaining reference experiences being serious with girls will… Read more »
[…] Blue Pill Frame […]
@SJF “That reddit post is simply silly. He’s not cool, confident, in charge competent leader. Merely faux alpha asshole.” “The man asks a social question that gets a girl to actually tell him about herself. The girls talks. The man listen to what the woman is saying , sooner or later he will go “Wait. What?” And qualify her, elicit values from her and get her to understand that you you know her well. He gets her to volunteer her dreams, hopes, passions, motivations, and story.” I wish TheConfusedOne would post less and SJF would post more. This way my… Read more »
@YaReally, @Scray, @Sentient and all the rest of the dudes on here Perhaps my story can serve to cement some concepts for ya’ll. I met this girl a little over 2 years ago. She’s the cousin of my friends GF. We meet at a private party and we fuck the first night on a fuckin’ sofa. We have really good sexual chemistry. She lives 3 hours away in the capital. She comes over like 2-3 times a month, we fuck, and she loves me. She even says straight out that she’s beginning to fall for me. I keep it cool.… Read more »
Babysnakes
All lessonsbthat you learn from are good. And all lessons you fail to learn from are repeated.
Enjoy the lesson. It’s got little to do with her and everything to do with you.
Just spent literally 3 hours catching up on several hundred comments – great stuff on this thread. Sentient: LOL at the iphone story. I’ve also bought Tom Peters’ book to add to the pile of books I need to read (I think I need to start scheduling my time better – schedule “reading time” along with “workout time”). Keeping up my workouts well and starting to feel the difference – trick will be to keep them up when I’m back in the big city soon and away from my “small town” routine and going out late etc. YaReally/hank holiday/Scray et… Read more »