Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because it subjectively means so much to men on an individual basis. “Success” is a relative term, but I intentionally began the Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because an understanding of this principle applies to so many different arenas in a man’s life.
It’s far too easy to conflate Frame (and the hoped-for success that can come about from it) with a power-of-positive-thinking motivational vibe. Developing, maintaining and internalizing a personal Frame isn’t derived from motivational thinking. That’s not to say it doesn’t help, but Frame can align either on realizable realities informed by Red Pill awareness or it can be founded on deeply ingrained investments in Blue Pill conditioning.
For some men, a Blue Pill mindset, and the conditioning principles that formed it, is the foundation of what they convince themselves is a very strong, very ‘correct’, establishment of Frame. It quite literally is the reality into which they expect a woman will want to be a part of and will want to readily cooperate within. The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.
This insistence of women adapting to a Blue Pill Frame is the root of many a Beta man’s downfall when a woman has finally run out of Alpha Fucks options during her Party Years and she’s “turned over a new leaf” in the necessitousness of her Epiphany Phase. Women aging out of the sexual marketplace are only too happy to appear to be a Beta man’s Blue Pill ship that’s finally come in.
Behold, Camelot
I have heard many times, from well-intended Blue Pill men, some variation of the Just Be Yourself self-righteous expectation that women should want to enter into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) strong, but the Blue Pill foundation it’s built upon is flawed because it is influenced and conditioned by the Feminine Imperative that always expects him to focus outwardly instead of making himself his own mental point of origin.
If they were honest, these are the guys who will Beta Hamster their Blue Pill ideal of the ‘right’ girl being any one who acknowledges his Blue Pill Frame.
There’s usually some self-evincing rationale that sounds similar when a Blue Pill guy has his Frame challenged by a woman unwilling to play along with his “world”. Whether he comes to this by rejection or simply observing women’s solipsism and duplicity, the reasoning is never about the validity of what his Frame is based on, but rather the disqualification of a woman who contradicts his ego-investments in it (i.e. they become “low quality women” to him).
However, many a White Knight will have what, for all purposes, is a very strong personal Frame. This dedication to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset is central to their ego-investments and it’s a big reason why it’s so difficult to unplug a man from it apart from some trauma that shakes his investing his personality in it. And even then, it’s far easier to disqualify the women who want nothing to do with his Frame than it is to get him to reconsider his fundamental, Blue Pill, old books belief-set.
As I was picking apart the conditions that lead to a man like Steve from last week’s post to becoming what he is, I found it’s important to highlight the determination with which most men will defend their Blue Pill investments and defend the investments of other Blue Pill men with whom it aligns with.
From Enter White Knight:
Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.
The more invested a Blue Pill man is in his Frame, the more ardent a White Knight he’s likely to be. The problem in all of this is that his dedication to that Frame, and the expectation that ‘quality women’ will rationally and deductively appreciate it, is in error. Women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate their reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality.
It’s easy to spot (and get annoyed with) a White Knight when he comes to the aid of M’Lady on an internet forum, but the defender-of-the-faith behavior also extends to other men, like himself, given to the same Blue Pill Frame and ideals. From a Red Pill perspective we know this is virtue signaling, but it’s also indicative of reaffirming a White Knight’s dedication to a Frame and belief-set that requires a constant reassurance in the face of so much observable contradiction.
Blue Pill Frame / Red Pill Awareness
In the manosphere, there’s a tendency to characterize the Blue Pill mindset with non-assertive “people pleaser” men conditioned from an early age to defer to women and sublimate themselves to the Feminine Imperative. For the most part, that generalization fits, but I think it’s important to understand that it’s entirely possible for otherwise very Alpha men to invest themselves in Blue Pill paradigms and then build Frames up around them.
While I was writing this, reader Softek had a very good take on how Frame can be applicable from both an Alpha and a Beta perspective:
Steve’s relationship is PERFECT.
It is in EXACT ALIGNMENT with his Frame.
His Frame, which he voluntarily maintains, is that of a Beta male. Weak, submissive, and priming him perfectly to be cuckolded.
Similarly, my relationship with my GF is perfect.
It’s in exact alignment with my Frame.
This is how it always works. It’s the only way it CAN work. Your Frame is your reality, period, end of story. I’m sticking to this idea of women having no Frame, because I think it can help men to realize that the man’s Frame – as far as the man is concerned – is the only thing that matters.
I’m going to stop here because this is one of his few assertions I don’t entirely agree with. Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance.
The easy example is the Frame grab I outlined in The Talk where a woman (consciously or otherwise) seeks to assert her experience as being the primary Frame or when a man abdicates his Frame to satisfy a woman’s need for long-term security. The other side of this is that even when women are considered ‘powerless’, and they are acted upon (hypoagency), their solipsistic experience is still central to the nature of any Frame because that presumption of powerlessness informs her solipsism and she builds her Frame around it.
Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it. I understand what Softek is getting at here, but just observe Beta men who are trapped in submissive roles to their dominant wives and you’ll see how he’s acted upon within her Frame.
If your Frame is what you really want it to be, you’re all set. You will simply not put up with BS, so it won’t be necessary to calculate what kind of BS or shit tests are being thrown at you, because you’ll automatically pass them without even being conscious of them.
At a deeper level, there is no your reality vs. her reality, or who has more power in the relationship.
It all goes back to your relationship with yourself. Your Frame. You decide what you accept in your life, and what you don’t accept.
Everyone has been telling me to get out of my relationship. Why? Their Frame is different. Maybe they have more self-respect. Maybe they have more confidence. But ultimately, their Frame is different.
They would not put up with half the BS I’ve put up with. They would’ve been gone a long, long time ago and onto greener pastures.
I’m getting what I deserve. I’m getting the relationship that is PERFECT for me, which means it’s perfectly aligned with my [current, malleable, changeable] Frame.
Frame isn’t set in stone. It’s ours to control, and ours alone, because it belongs to us each individually.
If I want a different relationship, I need to change my Frame. What do I want? What am I willing to accept? What am I not willing to accept?
This is a very important point, to understand that Steve’s relationship is PERFECT….for him. A complete match with his Frame.
If you dig into WHY he’s in this relationship, it’s for that reason and that reason alone: it resonates with his Frame. It resonates with the perception he has of himself, and the rules he’s laid out for himself in his life.
He is doing exactly what an Alpha does: living 100% by his Frame.
It’s just that his Frame is weak and submissive instead of strong and self-serving.
It’s funny when you look at things like this. When you realize you’re already “Alpha” in the sense that you know how to live 100% in your Frame….what’s stopping you from changing your Frame?
You already know what it’s like to hold Frame. Not everyone can stay in an abusive, sexless relationship. It takes a pretty extreme Beta to put up with all that. I am a fucking Beta God. I will put up with more abuse than any man on this planet. I’m the most abject Beta in the world.
(I’m being deliberately hyperbolic here, bear with me)
The most abject Beta is simply the other side of the Apex Alpha coin.
Both stubbornly hold to their Frame. The Beta holds to his Frame to his inevitable cuckolding and destruction; the Alpha holds to his Frame to his self-gratification regardless of who tries to shame him or bring him down.
We need to stop thinking “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good” and realize that Frame is subjective.
I may not agree with some of this, and considering Softek’s dependence on maintaining his relationship it’s easy to see why he feels this way, however, he does touch upon some foundational aspects of Frame. Yes, women get the men they deserve, or in this case, women enter into relations with the men who align with what they’ve created.
As I mention in Frame, yours should be a world women will want to enter or you will be entering her Frame. That said beware the motives of the woman who would eagerly embrace a Beta’s Frame. Those motives are rooted in necessity and not genuine desire. Just ask Saira Khan.
Understanding that a solid sense of Frame – literally creating a reality in which you live and expect others to interact within – is central to success is not a difficult concept to grasp for most men. Whether or not they feel an ownership of that Frame, or a motive to employ it, is what defines men’s understanding of it. And this discomfort men have in insisting upon a solid, active, Alpha Frame is precisely what the Feminine Imperative has sought to condition into men for going on five generations now.
Recently I’ve been commenting on yet another article of feminist triumphalism, glorying in the statistics that women are far happier after a divorce. This is standard feminist boilerplate, but the bloody handed cruelty of articles like this always ignore that the “men” they denigrate are the direct results of a generational conditioning that leads men to swallow Blue Pill idealism and abdicate Frame in the name of a nebulous egalitarian equalism.
As 39% more men put a gun in their mouths after a divorce, women will bemoan a generation of men the Feminine Imperative created to abdicate their Frame. So yes, when it comes to men becoming despondent and suicidal after having their Blue Pill idealistic ego-investments destroyed by the same imperative that invested it in them, yes, “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good”.
I need to acknowledge that I had been exercising and smelled like sweat, so this girl chatting me up even with customers around showed solid A2-3. Yeah, she kept her distance, lol, except for dancing and a hug. She knew that I’d been exercising, so smelling like sweat wasn’t a DLV. In fact, not caring whether I smelled like sweat was a DHV. Otoh, when I go to my board game meetup today, I better have my hygiene up to par.
Blax
“how in the fuck do dudes get married to chicks like this without realizing that they aren’t ” that chick ”
well not having sex with her prior to the wedding night is a good place to start… and an arranged marriage at that…
“My constant fear is that the women who have copies of the videos may not keep them well secured.”
why? are the girls underage?
if not, then no one give a shit.
there are so many videos of so many people fucking that your 50 or 100 phone vids are literally worthless to anyone but you
there were more pictures taken in like 2009 or 2010 than all the pictures taken since the invention of photography.
no one fucking cares. women get fucked. that’s what they’re here for.
constant fear will shorten your life
” . . . focus more on learning to get A2 . . .”
Calibration.
“oh I should’ve learned which kimonos are for adults and what Camboians wear”
All he had to do was ask what made it a child’s garment.
Again, the point is not that he should have known, it’s that she knew, and after she informed him, he knew.
“Most guys in here are afraid of admitting they have a folder in their hd drive or laptop with dozens of labled subfolders in them each with several videos of them fuking different women”
I have this thing called a “brain” that I store them in. I’m also more interested in fucking again with the time it would take to watch a video of me fucking some time in the past.
As a general rule I advise people to live their lives in the first person. You get in a lot more life that way.
@ fleezer
” constant fear will shorten your life ”
Man, ain’t THAT the truth….
@ kfg ” I have this thing called a “brain” that I store them in. I’m also more interested in fucking again with the time it would take to watch a video of me fucking some time in the past.” lol. I’m kind of torn. If I was 20 years old today, I’d probably record a bunch. But being that cams a phones weren’t around in that fashion at the time, I developed a clearer memory. I remember a vast amount of detail around sex with chicks. I even remember most of the chicks…he he he. The recording might’ve gotten… Read more »
“I have this thing called a “brain” that I store them in. I’m also more interested in fucking again with the time it would take to watch a video of me fucking some time in the past. As a general rule I advise people to live their lives in the first person. You get in a lot more life that way.” Well phrased KFG. I totally cosign living in the moment. I had more sense than my brother when watching my kids play sports and have family activities. I was always WTF? when he would be endlessly recording videos instead… Read more »
“The recording might’ve gotten in the way of the experience.
But, it’s different today.”
I don’t think it is at all. I think what what is different today is that the recording does get in the way of the experience, which is somewhat ironic for a generation that values experience over capital.
http://fasthorseinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/concert3.jpg
The “pics or it didn’t happen” mindset reduces all experiences to the experience of taking pics.
I think the disconnect here is men trying to understand why a woman would be enthusiastic about recording her sex acts or just nudes. Guys think about it from the point of recalling the act, like women will want to remember it and get off to the visuals later when they masturbate. That’s guy-think. Women get off on the feeling they get in the moment when they’re fucking or showing off their bodies on camera. Archiving it is much less of a consideration than that they’d have an audience who would get off on watching them. Solipsism drives the thrill… Read more »
@The Man You are totally spinning your wheels in the mud. @rugby11 posted up the Kenneth Miller youtube video July 6th, 2016 at 8:47 am The answer to your questions is at The 1:23:20 mark. It is evolutionarily understandable in kin selection theory. Kin selection is the evolutionary strategy that favors the reproductive success of an organism’s relatives, even at a cost to the organism’s own survival and reproduction. Kin altruism is altruistic behavior whose evolution is driven by kin selection. Kin selection is an instance of inclusive fitness, which combines the number of offspring produced with the number an… Read more »
“videotaping this crime spree is the best idea we’ve ever had”
– jimbo jones/Dan Greaney ca. 1998
note to the young guys: you have every reason to feel constant fear if you let your underage gf talk you into recording the acts. I know it’s very fucking tempting… but do not do it.
the FI police state will crush your alpha cad ass before you turn 18. sex offender is for life.
make sure her phone is in a drawer. girls are sneaky as fuck
“….which is somewhat ironic for a generation that values experience over capital.” Lol. What I’ve noticed is that young folks don’t fully experience ” things ” in what I’d call The Classical sense. Imo, they miss about 40% of an actual experience. I chalk it up to Information Overload. Too much ” stuff ” renders all things as more ” stuff “. Right now, I can close my eyes and smell the beach in Rincon PR, and feel the breeze, hear the birds and gulls, and taste the superb seafood eaten at an Oceanside restaurant. My kids cannot do this,… Read more »
Further note to the young guys: In many places, including most (but not all) of the US, it is legal to fuck a girl years before it’s legal to record it. Yeah, it’s stupid, but that’s the way it is. Check out the law (and its actual application, which may be different from the way it appears to be written) in your own locality and only break those you intend to. But don’t be afraid of breaking the social code that everyone thinks is the law, but isn’t, because it isn’t. The boogie men in other people’s minds are their… Read more »
Thanks @Sentient and @YaReally. With a probable meetup in a few hours here your responses are actually a bit pertinent since I don’t have much time to get my own head straight, ha. (Both of you mentioned the ‘good girl’ thing and I get why this could hold a lot of guys up, but I don’t have a unicorn in my head trust me. I mostly just meant that she’s a ‘good girl’ TYPE; I experienced what she was actually capable of lol. Also, she does have some of her practical life skills shit together in a way not a… Read more »
“Women get off on the feeling they get in the moment when they’re fucking or showing off their bodies on camera.”
http://images.medicaldaily.com/sites/medicaldaily.com/files/styles/headline/public/2014/04/11/woman-taking-selfie-herself.jpg
“Further note to the young guys: In many places, including most (but not all) of the US, it is legal to fuck a girl years before it’s legal to record it. Yeah, it’s stupid, but that’s the way it is. Check out the law (and its actual application, which may be different from the way it appears to be written) in your own locality and only break those you intend to.” Yeah, HABD took me to the carpet for not hitting on some younger 2-set cause ‘they might be under 18.’ So I looked it up and AOC is 16… Read more »
“Shit’ll be hard cause I love making out w her and who knows, maybe this relationship takes off and it’s my last chance.”
Good lord.
http://i.imgur.com/8eQqot7.gif
@Forge: “But we all just sort of are led to assume that 18 is the universal limit, cause of porn.”
“Ya know girlie, you’re kinda cute, and I’d be happy if you just sent me some some tit picks, but that would be a crime, so we’ll just have to fuck like weasels in heat instead.”
It’s a funny world.
@Forge the Sky “Do ya think I should cancel and just text something like what you have above? Just be like ‘hey I was thinking and we don’t need to meet, here’s what I think.’” I would reword it as “hey I’m swamped with work this week (or have a friend coming to town or something, like a reason for not meeting up that isn’t butthurt sounding). I don’t want to drag it out so (and insert my txt basically)”. “Great txt example btw. I’ll def try to convey that in person if I go that way.” The thing is… Read more »
@kfg
Not half as rich as all the freshmen girls who’ve become child pornographers in recent years. It must be a strange thing to know that it’s illegal to take a picture of yourself in the wrong state of dress.
“But we all just sort of are led to assume that 18 is the universal limit, cause of porn. It’s almost like society would rather we not know certain things.” “Not half as rich as all the freshmen girls who’ve become child pornographers in recent years. It must be a strange thing to know that it’s illegal to take a picture of yourself in the wrong state of dress.” The interesting thing to see will be what happens when society is confronted with the fact that probably a TON of child porn (girls as young as say 12) these days… Read more »
@Andy
Lol, less sappy than it sounds. I think a bit of nostalgia is normal at a crossroads.
But tx, I’m here to nut up after all.
@Forge:
Yeah, that’s what I was alluding to above. Her simply taking the picture herself on her own device would be the crime of “promoting” (words mean what the legislature says they mean, not what they actually mean) child pornography and possession. Two different crimes for the same single act.
When she sent it to someone else it would be the further crime of distributing.
The recipient would only be guilty of possession (even if s/he/it didn’t even know it was there. Be careful people).
Thanks Ya, I’ll play it out. Fuck this can be hard, my dick is just like “FUCK YOU GET ONE MORE LAY OUT OF IT YOU IDIOT” right now lol. It’s silly tho. If I have something to say to her it’s not like she’s gonna refuse to do so at a future time if I keep attraction reasonably high. And if I need to get laid there’s lots of other girls. It’s just scarcity talking. Actually when I think of it this might cut a bit for her; when I look back at the phone convo we chatted a… Read more »
kfg, ya
Our laws are illogical?! How could this have happened?? Our justice system would NEVER make broad vague laws that allowed it to prosecute whatever random person pisses them off!
Regulatory capture all the way down. Interesting times, my friends 😀
Awww yeah Forge!!!
http://www.footeducation.com/images/fpi/fpi-plantar.png
@Forge the Sky “If I have something to say to her it’s not like she’s gonna refuse to do so at a future time if I keep attraction reasonably high.” Exactly. The problem for most guys in a breakup is that they sabotage the FUCK out of their value and completely tank it at the very end. They embrace all that emo “one last kiss/lay” shit and tells her how much they were starting to care about her and wish things were different and maybe throw out one more commitment offer to try to keep her because of scarcity and… Read more »
@Herr Scray I’ve actually noticed a diff in your FR’s between the 5’s and the 6’s. Like the 6 you sat with but who got insta-pulled by the jacked guy, or the 6 who gave you shit about whether you were an optometrist eve tho her 5 friend liked you…. and the deviations are usually when it’s a black chick or an asian chick and that’s explained by the factors i said… Disagree completely with this. 6 who got instapulled I had worked on not at all. Had no value with her. The jacked guy also droped the ball on… Read more »
@hank So if you look at specifically what I did, you can see that the responses I get from girls are directly related to SPECIFICALLY what I do, and race has nothing to do with it. lol aight man, we can agree to disagree. but all of this energy you expend arguing with me to twist the interpretation of your sets should be like….IN YOUR MIND….you should use this same skill to argue with yourself to get you into state. you clearly have the skill…..so i mean, just more untapped potential i guess lol. So it would take sometime like… Read more »
@scray So you are saying to alternate between funny and sincere. So for the nurse coldread “So say I am your patient. Earlier we made out and I said you sucked at kissing and you stabbed me. So what do you do now?” and she say whatever “But seriously, that’s cool you are a nurse. There’s a lot of hate and blaming in the world today, so it is nice to see someone opt to be more caring and nuturing.” and then If I wanted to keep the ping pong ball going “You get hit on by old dudes much?… Read more »
@hank “Open DHV qualify (can do cold read or roleplay here too) ***if recptive — #close *** if not then: DHV qualify” Excellent. Wasn’t sure you’d get it but this is basically MM in a nutshell. She won’t qualify herself to you or play nice unless you have value to her…if you don’t have value, you demonstrate more value. If you have enough value, you progress forward (or loop back to ramp it up some more if you want, which is what Julien does). But start with trying this formula out. Which means yup, you’re gonna need to plan out… Read more »
uuuhhgggg
what can you say to get a girl to say OMG? Like, can you prompt that.
I have an awesome routine I REALLY want to use, but she needs to say OMG for me to use it. Haven’t had it pop up in set, and I would like to have a way to MAKE her say OMG so I can run the routine.
@hank So you are saying to alternate between funny and sincere. yeah for now. for now we just have to get you comfortable with other emotions and tools besides humor. funny, sincere, dangerous/bold, professor/informer etc. So for the nurse coldread “So say I am your patient. Earlier we made out and I said you sucked at kissing and you stabbed me. So what do you do now? “But seriously, that’s cool you are a nurse. There’s a lot of hate and blaming in the world today, so it is nice to see someone opt to be more caring and nuturing.”… Read more »
@hank
what can you say to get a girl to say OMG? Like, can you prompt that.
do something mischievous — combine funny/danger
opener: hey…watch this
her: *looks*
you: *steals something (i remember stealing a cookie from one of the asian places in a food court once)…….then bring it to her*
her: …omg
you: take it you’re already an accomplice
@ya You have value by default now, i’ve just gotten really good at cold reading tbh. women love hearing shit about themselves. that’s why they read horoscopes etc. and it’s all vague shit that you mold to elicit values from them and shape the story anyway. so it’s a DHV in and of itself and it just gives concrete value through content ALONE. like, i have gone from not having much value to having skyhigh value through good cold reads. so i can have shitty subcomms and whatever and be lame and then bust out a great insight and cold… Read more »
@Forge I’ll chime in here. The theme of your situations seems to be one-itis. This comes completely from a Blue Pill mindset. You “think” you’re being alpha by banging them and being a free spirit. But when these girls suddenly go off and find some other guy who will spend more time with them, is new, is shiny, is more alpha—whatever—what you’re witnessing is hypergamy in action. I was in this situation. I say “was” because I’ve now been able to discipline myself not to get too caught up in these situations where I’m reliant on a girl. The result… Read more »
@hank holiday “what can you say to get a girl to say OMG? Like, can you prompt that.” Ya man, you’ll be doing it all the time at will down the road. 🙂 2nd page more than the 1st: http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/cat/In_the_Middle/Tactics/685.html Page 50: http://flirtisforum.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=894 Some oldschool (SUPER old lol) routines: http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/collection-of-pua-openers-and-add-yours-vt8124.html Tyler Digest section “teasing her on her mannerisms” Push/pull, being semi-offensive in a playful/calibrated way, cold-reading her in a semi-offensive way, etc And of course when she “OMG!!”s you make fun of her valley girl shit which causes it to spike more etc But remember you’re ultimately just doing it… Read more »
@hank @scray
post in mod lol @rollo helllllp!
Alright, did it. No more plate for me #sadface Ya, basically did your text with a few detail alterations to fit my style. Then stuff got complicated cause we cross-texted; she was texting me basically to cancel the meet up w/ some excuse right as I sent it. I was just like, ‘Yeah sure. You’re just afraid you’re gonna end up groping me :P’ She’s just like ‘Yeah right, I’d never DREAM of doing that ;)’ Then I sent one more thing to set a future-sex frame that was prolly inadvisable. Damn overgaming impulses. Was basically a ‘I love getting… Read more »
I think Hank will do better with a more simplified model… I have an awesome routine I REALLY want to use, but she needs to say OMG for me to use it. Haven’t had it pop up in set, and I would like to have a way to MAKE her say OMG so I can run the routine. This here… it’s great if you are trying to make your way as a SNL writer or something… but getting P in V… wrong focus. Simple like – instigate. Isolate. escalate. Better a shitty or lame routine that moves you forward than… Read more »
““nah, it can be tough being a woman i think with all the attention you get. especially someone like you who..”
A solid way to get this via cold read “You… yeh I know… You have PGS” and leave it…. wait for her attention…”what do you mean – what what!!!”
You: “you know Pee Gee Esss!???”
Wait a beat “What you know Pretty Girl Syndrome. Yeah I know… exhausting always being judged, hard to know who your friends are… girls are so cold…” and wait…
She will open up like a hot clam.
Forge… Tough lessons… one thing you should consider… and this isn’t being mean… just an objective observation over this whole interaction… from the beginning ” Was basically a ‘I love getting to know how a girl ticks physically. Just BARELY got started w/ you. Ah well.’” Do NOT trust your instincts… You are way too nice guy and rational and logical. I know you know what to do.. but in the moment you are defaulting to bad or at least worse game positions to work from. Fight your instincts. work on developing your asshole qualities. selfish, direct, not sugar coated,… Read more »
Scray hank Hank this is spot on… “So it would take sometime like 20 chicks in a row maybe to get to the point where I was pumped up enough to consistantly do it. and i’m telling you nah. you need to just do it. ya man, sorry, there aren’t any shortcuts. you gotta start do it rain or shine. you have to execute your PLAN happyface or sadface or neutralface. and that plan has to always include some degree of being sexual.” stair stepping is not going to achieve the desired result – that being p in v… if… Read more »
Ha ha haaa…. I’ve been lurking here in the background, looking for a way to jump into the comments, but I got no value to add yet. YaReally, scray and Sentient are hashing things out with @ Big Bank Hank, and I’m just soaking it up like a sponge. Teh Man is asking a ton of questions about ” humanity ” and stuff. Idk, that stuff, I have opinions, but he will interrogate the fuck outta me, so I pass. I have seen the absolute worse in people, along with the best. Universal? Meh, maybe… but I don’t count on… Read more »
@walawala Thanks for the reply. Oneitis comes from scarcity mindset. Scarcity mindset comes from scarcity. Which I’m suffering from. Context: had a 2-yr relationship that was v bad/codependent and shit. Was so attached but I still didn’t want to break up. In spite of finding the red pill. Spent about a year after it ended rationalizing trying to get her back. 2-year dry spell. 2nd year at least I’m starting work on mindset, pua skills instead of pining. Start to get better. Whatayaknow, this girl falls on my lap. Hotter, smarter, younger, and down w fuckbuddy status. Nice. Huge fucking… Read more »
@Forge. You’re over gaming and over thinking. This win at any cost mentality may work in competitive sports where everyone shakes hands at the end and has a beer. With women as you’re discovering game is more like chess. You have to think of where you want to be and position yourself there without losing ground. You have to think what’s best for you and if you lose a few pawns in the process you planned it that way. A major goal for me this year was to stop caring. The co dependent behaviours are a mindset not a definition… Read more »
@Forge the Sky “Ya, basically did your text with a few detail alterations to fit my style. Then stuff got complicated cause we cross-texted; she was texting me basically to cancel the meet up w/ some excuse right as I sent it. I was just like, ‘Yeah sure. You’re just afraid you’re gonna end up groping me’” lol now imagine you had, like a chump, dramatically gotten all ready to win her over, you had a dozen roses and her favorite dinner on the stove to impress her. And she’s just like “hey, can’t make it bye” and leaves YOU… Read more »
@Sentient You’ve said as much before, and I’ve actually been using that observation quite a bit. I’d describe where I’m at as having two voices in my head – one takes over when I’m in a confident flow state, another in a bad feelz state. When I’m in a bad feelz state I question every impulse. Try to let concious game override. I think I’m learning to do it more, but some shit still creeps through. I think the best thing to do is to try and more consistently be out of a negative state. But ya it’s bad. When… Read more »
@Sentient @Scray @hank To add to what I just wrote, I’d say the big thing is that WE can all tell hank has value. We know he has a shitload to offer girls. And we have value to girls so for us it’s just “go up and go for comfort and she’ll be receptive and dazzled that you guessed she was nurturing”. But he’s not displaying that value to the girls yet. To the girls he’s just a random dude making small talk. They don’t see him the way we see him. Ya telling her fortune or that she’s nurturing… Read more »
@Forge “one takes over when I’m in a confident flow state, another in a bad feelz state. When I’m in a bad feelz state I question every impulse. Try to let concious game override. I think I’m learning to do it more, but some shit still creeps through.” Like Tyler says: “Memory is state accessed.” When you feel shitty, your brain will remember all the times you’ve felt similarily shitty and visualize all the things that could go wrong and make you feel shitty. When you feel like a boss, your brain just remembers all your awesome moments and brushes… Read more »
Blax
Awesome chat with Joe. He italian? Missionaries… white knights… well he is a blue knight.
Take h I m out and sarge with him…
@Forge Focus on your successes, learn from your past. It’s also important to understand that you did nothing “wrong” in these interactions. You acted a particular way. You learned from it. You now realize and understand how Hypergamy works. You’ll be better at managing these situations in future. Keep at it. At some point you’ll reach a point where you’re not obsessing over each interaction and cherry picking the ones you want to keep and the ones you want to dump. I’m closer to that point. Not every interaction I have or every girl I game is a huge score.… Read more »
@ Sentient
Lol. Yup, Joe is Italian. He’s a great dude from a solid, old books/ old school family. Well, except for his sleeve of tats on one arm. That’s not ” old school “.
But I do plan on flirting with/ hitting on the waitresses when we go out to chat, just to prove a few things to him about women. Lol, but he is buff and according to all of the women in my life, fine as hell, so I might get shown up and embarrassed.
LOL!!! Nah, Ima teach him some new tricks!! Lmao.
Nice stuff Wala. You have a great story arc.
Blax
Italian dad’s are usually pretty red pill and old school… but to the sons for some reason it’s all about Mama… I blame latent Catholisism…
@ Sentient ” Italian dad’s are usually pretty red pill and old school… but to the sons for some reason it’s all about Mama…” Yes! I grew up in my town when it was very mixed, so I had Italian friends galore growing up. Mama is special. A lot of my friends dads were 1st generation American born, but they were schooled in life by the dads and grand-dads from the old country. Catholicism cast a long shadow indeed. I have yet to find out where Joe’s head is at religiously. We have time though. Plus, I’ve chatted enough with… Read more »
@Forge Great to see you back on board hear, but sorry it’s under these circumstances. Did anyone tell you that you are such a nice guy in a non-Machiavellian way? Lol. Stop being so nice. You said before that shit went down today: “Time to hit the streets methinks. I told myself as soon as I got a plate I couldn’t stop gaming even if I wanted to lol but I kinda did. Predictable. I’m merely human and haven’t hit a tear with PUA yet.” Lesson learned? I’ve had those moments before when I didn’t get what I wanted because… Read more »
Ya Phone so no cut and paste… To me it’s great to make girls laugh… love it. Fully sanction. However if the goal is sex I’ve found it is better to make them wet. So just think that Hanks time would be better spent on that step then on coming up with the perfect third joke routine. I’ve found a good shortcut to that end is fast familiar physical contact… immediately sets you apart from a nice chat. That and compliance hoops, dominant posture and laser eye… and loop back in the funny stuff… my humor is pretty deadpan so… Read more »
Thank you guys. Fuckin masterclass. Esp. YaReally; teaching a dude in the teeth of hurt/failures takes a delicate touch and you’ve got it nailed. This is the first time I’ve been in a ‘down state’ for more than an afternoon for months, so I’m getting there. Reframing like a champ 🙂 The stuff w the old oneitis is actually getting me down more than I’m letting on methinks. But I’ll bear up soon. I feel quite a bit better already actually. Like a goddamn rock off my chest. @Blax Still the best stories man. You should compile a book; you… Read more »
I screwed up the quote italics. This was me talking: Lesson learned? I’ve had those moments before when I didn’t get what I wanted because lack of mastery or a moments delay. And I vowed not to repeat that lack of mastery. Get back up on the saddle and don’t repeat that “mistake”. The important thing from my experience is to fuck up, shake it off and go out there and do better the next time. SJF Maxim #4 Don’t fuck up. If you do, don’t talk about it, learn from it. I mean don’t talk about it in real… Read more »
“The stuff w the old oneitis is actually getting me down more than I’m letting on methinks.”
Enjoy you guy friend’s criticism: I call bullshit on that. You know better.
Hey @SJF!
Wondering when I’d hear from ya.
I have a big project to finish by Monday but I’m out sarging – solo probably – at least one day this weekend. Been long enough away. I’ll get there 😀
My clients have a similar relationship to me as Doctor/patient so I’m hesitant. We’ll see what sarging does for me first.
But tell ya what, I’ll plumb for logistics just for the fun of it, see how receptive it all seems. Be a fun FR at least!
Bullshit on it getting me down? Or bullshit on that being the cause of me being down?
Forge
,,”scarcity mindset comes from scarcity”
Wrong. Comes from fear.
You can be where you are now and with an abundance mindset and think ” great. Now i am free to get a much hotter girl. And this one will be back too!”
Awesome.
Or you can have some hot girls in your life and STILL be afraid of losing them….
Abundance starts with going all on on you.
“Bullshit on it getting me down? Or bullshit on that being the cause of me being down?” Both. One-itis is a pathological psychological disease and you know better than to still be affected by whatever she does, however she works in the office, however you didn’t fuck her good in the past, however sweet she is, however douchey her boss is, whatever success you are not having moving on, whatever you are not proving to her after the fact ….etc. You are better than her and you have no business at all letting her public acknowledgement get you down. Do… Read more »
Heh. Talent code Game Theory backed by actual observation of talent camps. TIP #37 TO CHOOSE THE BEST PRACTICE METHOD, USE THE R.E.P.S. GAUGE The biggest problem in choosing a practice strategy is not that there are too few options, but that there are too many. How do you identify the best methods? This tip provides a way to measure practice effectiveness. It’s called the R.E.P.S. gauge. Each letter stands for a key element of deep practice. R: Reaching and Repeating E: Engagement P: Purposefulness S: Strong, Speedy Feedback. ELEMENT 1: REACHING AND REPEATING. Does the practice have you operating… Read more »
And then there is tip #17, otherwise explained in a big long book by Nassim Taleb’s “Antifragile” Get out infield? TIP #17 EMBRACE STRUGGLE At all of the talent hotbeds, from Moscow to Dallas to Brazil to New York, I saw the same facial expression: eyes narrow, jaw tight, nostrils flared, the face of someone intently reaching for something, falling short, and reaching again. This is not a coincidence. Deep practice has a telltale emotional flavor, a feeling that can be summed up in one word: “struggle.” Most of us instinctively avoid struggle, because it’s uncomfortable. It feels like failure.… Read more »
And then there is the Deida concept of leaning out to your edge. BTW in Julien RSD live whatchamacallits, he called out Deida’s TWSM, the best relationship game book ever. For what it’s worth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTlEo46XAc0 Know Your Real Edge and Don’t Fake it It is honorable for a man to admit his fears, resistance, and edge of practice. It is simply true that each man has his limit, his capacity for growth, and his destiny. But it is dishonorable for him to lie to himself or others about his real place. He shouldn’t pretend he is more enlightened than he… Read more »
@yareally @scray @sentient @PUA Okay, here’s some starters #1 DHV — MASTER DEBATER “I went to this advanced debate class in high school. We started out by having to debate one other classmate. Well, the guy I was supposed to debate didn’t show up. So I had to debate the teacher. Now he’s a national champ. One of the best there is. And no, I’m not going to say he’s a master debater, get your mind out of the gutter pervert. But anyway, he’s a champ. So here I am having to debate this guy. It was like going up… Read more »
er, thats not to say ONLY do funny stuff, but lead into the more rapport type stuff with funny things. So do funny bits more than scray wants, but not be 100% them
basically the transition is around the qualification. that’s when I shift more into deeper stories.
Opner is more of the funny CF stuff
DHV shifts more into the deeper stuff
then the qualifcation is definitely there
and that transitions into Comfort, where I am doing much more of that stuff.
“McPherson calculated that Clarissa learned more in that span of five minutes than she would have learned in an entire month practicing her normal way, in which she played songs straight through, ignoring any mistakes.” Because, for some reason, her teacher had never taught her how and what to practice. Had she been taught properly, instead of being left to discover it by chance, she would have made considerably more progress in that same 5 minutes by cutting out the useless bits of her practice. In point of fact, she hadn’t been practicing at all, she had been rehearsing –… Read more »
@yareally @culumn @habd @whatever, you fuckers know who you are So picking up more on these IOIs. Can see where the ones I get are bigger than I think Remembering old ass interacions, and the huge as IOIs I got — and got a great routine I can do now. So I had this best friend. He turned into a douche. He and his GF broke up. She was the only girl I had seen up to this point that I liked. So I tried to get his girlfriend. And failed because I didn’t know shit. Here’s the funny part.… Read more »
Okay, so I want to make this into a DHV Its from this FR. The 5 redhead. https://therationalmale.com/2016/02/15/the-warrior-princess/comment-page-6/#comment-141359 Man, a 5, but goddamn those T&A. 10 body for sure. SO MANY GREENLIGHTS lol. But heres the thing I told that story to my cousin and his GF And when I got to the part how she got in bed with me I said “And she got all up on me and was rubbing her ass all over my cock.” and his GF was having a blast and was “OMG”. We were in a public restaurant. With a fair number of… Read more »
@SJF @kfg
But one morning, a remarkable thing happened: Clarissa accomplished a month’s worth of practice in five minutes.
Explain this
Clarissa, Clarissa, Clarissa
Die, die, die!
lol
Oh man. And I am realizing, even if I don’t have a “100 sex positions” book in the venue (which is ideal), I can still just TELL that story to spike BT if nothing else. So basically just: I was on a date — we looked at a book — it said to fuck me up the ass with a dildo. There we go. Thats a nice whambam sexual thing I can slip in fast. “Oh speaking of crazy things happening, this one time on a date I . . .” or “You think THAT’s a crazy suggestion. Well I… Read more »
Hank “But heres the thing I told that story to my cousin and his GF And when I got to the part how she got in bed with me I said “And she got all up on me and was rubbing her ass all over my cock.” and his GF was having a blast and was “OMG”. We were in a public restaurant. With a fair number of people around So she was OMG I can’t belive you said that. Afterwards, she told me flat out “yeah she wanted you to take her to the bathroom and sex her.”” and… Read more »
@Hank
You do realize that Clarissa represents you?
And YaReally, Scray and KFG are pointing out that:
“In point of fact, you haven’t been practicing at all, you have been rehearsing – mistakes.”
@sentient I din’t mean punch line as in “funny”, but as in everything is bulding up to something in particular. But I guess it doesn’t HAVE to as long as it conveys those attributes you speak off I know the car wreck stripper DHV you mentioned @all Went to drive thru. Handed $20 “Ohhh. Is that all you have. A $20?” “yeaaah. Just came from bank she gets change. hands it to me “So it’s just a bunch of ones?” “Yeah. Sorry, that’s all we have.” “That’s okay. I’ll just tell people I was stripping.” “OMG!” and she’s keeled over… Read more »
@SJF
Its a song lol
Like the vomit story…. No. No. No. It triggers a gross reaction and conveys that you would be desperate enought to fuck in vomit. Get that? Now the same story… Stop at her vomiting and then be like “so she throws up… And she’s a little embarrased so im like you ok you sick baby and brush the hair out of her eyes… And shes like yeh im fine and tries to go back to sucking. But idk… I just lost interest after that. I mean she was really hot and up till then ucked dick like a champ. But… Read more »
Some great sections SJF. Reminds me of some old Tom Peters stuff… Rapid prototyping, ideation, failing forward fast…
@Blax Nice Joe story. Imagine needing to have that conversation with your own senior citizen retired father. lol. Sigh. FML. @yaReally ” I once asked girls if I could call them by her name when we have sex later lol” literally lol’ed at that one. @Forge “Lol, less sappy than it sounds. I think a bit of nostalgia is normal at a crossroads. But tx, I’m here to nut up after all.” I just can’t even sympathize with your mindset at all. You get a fuck buddy and stop going out? Jesus, you’d think that would make you want to… Read more »
@Blaximus Good looking out,on your 4th red pill fr.@ all this is the other side of the coin. Blax as a 55yo family man,i find myself in a similar situation,as a father and grandfather all i really want is for the young ones to be happy.It has become quite clear that their individual happiness cannot exist in a blue pill frame.You can raise your children to be honest hard working loving individuals,then hollywood,media hype,pier pressure and players come along and throw a wrench in the spokes.Time to nut up. My 27yo princess,single mommy,knockout daughter,married a player 8yrs ago and had… Read more »
she TELLS ME SHE WANTS TO BANG ANOTHER GUY INSTEAD I’m suddenly sending her sweet affirming texts.
I don’t empathize with this, but I understand it. Shit. I’d say, “Have a nice life” if I even bothered to reply.
“Reminds me of some old Tom Peters stuff… “ You mean the Tom Peter’s who said this in an interview with FastCompany twenty years after writing In Search of Excellence?: We got it right when we said that we were in search of excellence. Not competitive advantage. Not economic growth. Not market dominance or strategic differentiation. Not maximized shareholder value. Excellence. It’s just as true today. Business isn’t some disembodied bloodless enterprise. Profit is fine — a sign that the customer honors the value of what we do. But “enterprise” (a lovely word) is about heart. About beauty. It’s about… Read more »
SJF Yup that Peters… Fascinating story arc, you see it over and over though… Guy gets a shit assignment as a low level employee… turns his report into a lifelong global enterprise at the top of his field… because of his attitude and approach. ANYTHING can become SOMETHING with the right attitude and approach… Same for Tunney, same for Magnus Walker etc etc etc… The key though is an authentic desire to pursue THE THING versus seeing it as a means to an end. That is where the passion comes in… BTW this little book is amazing. Guys will really… Read more »
Sjf Sentient
Tom Peters good stuff.
Find that passion,then the money comes.
“We got it right when we said that we were in search of excellence.”
It could also be called quality.
Sentient – I’m not really getting how Tom Peters doesn’t prescribe to the Golden Rule mindset? From the bit a know about him …. Golden Rule seems to be one of his basic convictions. Not sure how you can do Platinum Rule (do whatever you want, when you want) outside of the Golden Rule context. Hey – if “live and let live” isn’t available in the milieu – do what you want whenever want is going to tend to degrade into dominance and submission games all round, …… therefore tending to promote an environment where the availability of trust is… Read more »
Technical question:
Guy has been seeing a fun, attractive, witty woman for a while, along with others, mostly for sex. For this woman he also genuinely enjoys going out with her. He takes her to 4th of July fireworks show, lots of fun. On the way to his home she says:
“Wouldn’t it be great to have nights like this more often? It’s so nice to actually go out and enjoy each other’s company”
Is this a shit test?
“She’s explaining that she became a sugar baby in order to buy luxury goods.”
august 2016 vanity fair piece on modern whores will make even blue pillers shudder
“Wish you could send an invoice” to a “fuck boy that used you,” said a young woman on a sugaring page on Facebook.”
pump and dump is the only viable option when dealing with materialistic gold digging whores
may you live in interesting times
@wild person The golden rule is do unto others as you would have done to you;not the one with the gold makes the rules or do unto others before they do it to you. Live and let live,is akin to can you sing tenor? ten or twelve miles from here! First we have to learn a marketable skill,the golden rule helps with this,then take that one step further to being passionate about the art,learning game to market this passion.You can’t please everyone so live and let live,just leave me to help someone that gets it. When we are passionate about… Read more »
@redlight
“Wouldn’t it be great to have nights like this more often? It’s so nice to actually go out and enjoy each other’s company”
Is this a shit test?
It’s an incremental push for a relationship. If you like spending more time with her, np. Otherwise A&A, “Yeah, we should get married, then we’d end up fighting all the time, not talking to each other, not having sex, too busy with the business of living to just enjoy life.”
@ya I don’t get what the push is to not make her laugh a couple times and raise his value in her eyes a little more before getting deep lol because right now he’s not really making them laugh in a way that builds his value. (sometimes he does, when the stars align) from the interactions (and from my own memory of my first experiences) his subcomms are probably nervy and so his jokes are very safe and C1 even though he’s trying to ‘be sexual’ and ‘roleplay.’ it takes a guy who has had experience in close quarters with… Read more »
The Man let’s see… did Peters stay at McKinsey and look for them to give him a big bonus and more responsibility and a thank you etc. or did he leave? Waterman the same thing. Because McKinsey wanted it all. ” do what you want whenever want is going to tend to degrade into dominance and submission games all round,” Yes, because that is actually what is going on all around you. The question is one of where you fit in. Whose interests are paramount? ” therefore tending to promote an environment where the availability of trust is downgraded …..… Read more »
@hank also, you may want to acquaint yourself with the RIGHT music. like, if you want to get into the right mindsets for being alpha and being cool…. …it helps to immerse yourself in those types of mindsets. if you listen to the lyrics of a lot of those songs, you’ll find yourself being able to express a lot of feelings quickly and in cool ways (a lot of girls don’t even listen to that shit so they won’t even know if you quote the lines directly lol) Try some of these out and listen to them…. Closer NIN (more… Read more »
StuffinBox – yes it is a paradox, and I think Sentient is right about the Platinum Rule, but I think it works like this: high level of Golden Rule buy-in, in the milieu, will enable the operation of the Platinum Rule, ….. ultimately – healthy (non-psychopathic) Platinum Rule is contingent on healthy Golden Rule. So it would be: “Guys will really get a lot from mastery of the Golden Rule mindset allowing for the emergence of the Platinum Rule mindset” Sentient: I said: “do what you want whenever you want (outside of the foundational context of Golden Rule) is going… Read more »
The Man
“the Platinum Rule only for those willing to more completely destroy others for the sake of their own personal Platinum Rule”
You get it… you just don’t like it. But it is what it is at the end of the day.
@Redlight “Is this a shit test?” Yes, it is a particular form of shit test. A sweetly voiced comfort test (which is a shit test) but often handled different than a sharply voiced strict shit test. She obviously is asking for more investment (…read commitment). That is a bit hard to give advice on how he deals with it because he has less restrictions if he’s spinning plates. Most advice from comfort test comes from Athol Kay, purple pill or Bluepillprofessor, married red pill. In this 5th podcast, I (BluePillProfessor) fight off a copyright claim from Led Zeppelin and discuss… Read more »
” . . . trust is a one of the conditions of . . .”
. . . betrayal.