Lately I’ve been refocusing my take on the process of mens’ unplugging and dealing with a new Red Pill informed way of living. The Gamer Girls post, while intentionally light reading (for TRM), was really a side of things I’ve wanted to explore for a bit now.

As most of my readers know I make efforts not to be prescriptive in what I write. I realize there’s going to be bias involved in any observed process, but as I’ve stated on this blog and in my books, applying the Red Pill isn’t one size fits all. While the truth of Red Pill awareness is universally understandable, the application of it needs an individualized approach.

I don’t sell sunshine and rainbows here. You wont find deliberately inspirational reheated Zig Ziglar quotes you can frame in some motivational poster. Anyone doing so has a business based on it. What you will get here is unvarnished, un-sugar coated Red Pill awareness that is actionable in ways you choose to leverage it. My intent is not to make you a better man, but to have you make you a better man, and I trust you to be intelligent enough to make the best decisions for yourself based on your new awareness.

As I stated in The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill,…

The truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make truth hurt any less, nor does it make truth any prettier, and it certainly doesn’t absolve you of the responsibilities that truth requires. One of the biggest obstacles guys face in unplugging is accepting the hard truths that Game forces upon them. Among these is bearing the burden of realizing what you’ve been conditioned to believe for so long were comfortable ideals and loving expectations are really liabilities.

At it’s most distilled, the Red Pill is a Praxeology (h/t SJF):

Praxeology is the study of those aspects of human action that can be grasped a priori; in other words, it is concerned with the conceptual analysis and logical implications of preference, choice, means-end schemes, and so forth.

Praxeologyis the deductive study of human action based on the notion that humans engage in purposeful behavior, as opposed to reflexive behavior like sneezing and inanimate behavior. According to its theorists, with the action axiom as the starting point, it is possible to draw conclusions about human behavior that are both objective and universal. For example, the notion that humans engage in acts of choice implies that they have preferences, and this must be true for anyone who exhibits intentional behavior.

As such, and by the way I define it, the praxeology of the Red Pill is subject to the same capacity for revision and refinement as any other science. A lot of critics, including ones who’ve come to it after failing to re-plug themselves back into the Matrix, would like to believe that the foundations of Red Pill awareness are just overly complex opinions based on the anecdotal, negative, experiences of a handful of manosphere luminaries.

The truth is that as a praxeology Red Pill awareness is ‘open source’ and will necessarily evolve as our understanding of human nature advances. As new biological, psychological and sociological understanding expands so too will our understanding of Red Pill awareness, and consequently methodologies to operate on them will too.

However, in the now, we still must deal with the consequent painful disillusionments from being cut away from a formerly Blue Pill existence. As I illustrated in The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill, that freeing truth comes at a price, and sometimes that price manifests in ways you don’t expect.

Many newly unplugged men make the connection that Red Pill awareness fundamentally alters the way they see the world and certainly the latent purpose of pop culture and media trends. That’s the easy recognition, however, the Red Pill Lens reveals many more painful truths and a lot of them hit pretty close to home. Dealing with family, interacting with close personal friends still mired in a Blue Pill conditioned existence, is not only frustrating, but revealing your new awareness can sometimes draw hostility and abandonment from them.

I’ve personally known guys who’ve read my body of work, came to a Red Pill awareness, and then immediately wanted to explain it all to their friends only to find themselves ostracized from their regular social group because their sudden change diametrically conflicts with what they’ve been conditioned to expect from him. It’s very frustrating for guys who want to excitedly, sometimes proudly, talk about the particulars of their new awareness and how it’s changed them for the better.

I know better than most I think. I’m Rollo Tomassi and I can’t exactly advertise it or even drop hints about the Red Pill in my daily life without some reservation. Mrs. Tomassi would like nothing better than to blather off about my two books to her family and friends, but I’ve dropped the hammer on this since I started this blog. Obviously it behooves me to maintain at least a semi-anonymous profile to make sure my wife and daughter aren’t the target of anyone’s net hate retaliations, but I also know that most of my family and certainly all of hers will never be ready to accept Red Pill awareness.

Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes for disenchantment.


PlansAndPlates from the Red Pill sub brought up an interesting topic recently.

People who knew you in your beta past will never respect you and you will never respect yourself if you choose to associate with them anymore.

I made a pretty brutal decision to ghost a lot of ‘friends’ from my past.

I decided if people treated me in a way they wouldn’t treat someone of high regard/respect/authority (their boss, their parent, whoever they look up to) then I would next them. Boy, girl, plate, ‘friend’, family member, whoever.

If a person doesn’t respect you, it could be your fault and it could be their fault – whoever enabled and created the relationship of disrespect is not actually important.

What’s important is the result; you’re associating with someone who treats you with disrespect, or lesser respect than those they actually respect, and there is no way a man can respect himself if he’s choosing to spend time with people who don’t respect him.

Note the word choose. Sometimes you have no choice, but when you have the option to say to yourself “You know what? Fuck this, I’m bailing” or “No fucking way am I going to see that guy” you must use it.

How can you respect yourself if you choose to associate with someone who doesn’t respect you? How can you do anything in life worth a shit? You’re going to spend all the time with them ‘proving’ to them you’re worthy of respect? You’re going to spite them until they respect you? Who gives a fuck what they think? Not only is it bad to give a fuck what someone thinks, they’re likely never going to respect you. Never ever. Once you decide you don’t respect somebody, how often do you change your mind? Do you erase your memories?

How can you believe in yourself if you don’t respect yourself? How are you going to follow a plan out to get healthy, get wealthy, get smart, if you don’t respect yourself?

For that reasons I ghosted a number of friendly acquaintances I considered friends, once I understood where I was in their hierarchy. Some I’d known for 10 years and had shared some good and bad memories with.

I do not regret it one bit.

People who don’t respect you won’t change how they perceive you once you better yourself, they’ll see the old you and a new imposter.

I am a strong believer that first impressions last, forever, and that if you have made an impression on some people that you are a beta, they will never forget where they’ve pigeon holed you. They will never treat you like an alpha and defer to you, how could they? They don’t respect you, they ‘know’ that you’re just ‘acting different’.

Compare that with new people. New people see what’s in front of them and they take it at face value that you’re a lean mean fucking machine who appears to have his shit in order and probably always has. Don’t tell them about your past when you didn’t, they don’t need the dream ruined. And if other people talk about your old ways, just agree and amplify and laugh about it – the new person wasn’t there and it’s just the other persons word against yours – and you’re a likable alpha, so they’ll think fuck it and believe you’re an alpha and always were.

Lesson: You should consider making some hard decisions about ghosting some people in your life who have disrespected you and boxed you into a ‘beta’ category in their memory. You could turn from the guy from Revenge of the Nerds into Connor McGregor and they’d only tell people about how you were the guy from Revenge of the Nerds. New people will take your fucking greatness at face value and when they hear reports that you’ve upgraded and shit test you, defuse the shit test with great laughter.

His point is simple with regard to respect, but this need for ghosting is a pragmatic response most guys see coming when they shift into Red Pill awareness. They know well ahead of time that certain friends, particularly close friends whose lives are invested in the illusions of a Blue Pill contentedness, will neither accept this new awareness nor the genuineness of their change in perspective.

Law 10 Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky

You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.

Remember those Zig Ziglar optimistic ‘mindset’ peddlers I mentioned earlier? One tenet of that build-a-positive-fantasy-life mental model is the clichéd notion that you should surround yourself with winners and blow off the losers in your life. It’s a simple aphorism that rolls off the tongue easy; associate with winners and that winning will rub off on you. What they don’t tell you to do is how to cut out the unhappy and unlucky persons in your life who also happen to be your oldest friends or closest family members.

This is one of those painful truths that will set you free, but still stings like a bitch.

But eliminate them, or marginalize them you must. Most guys know this, or they come to know it as the first thing once they unplug. There’s a cost to Red Pill awareness.

The Price of Truth

I only rarely make an active effort to help unplug men these days. Now, I get that my books and this blog are an effort as such, but I mean in the sense of reaching out personally to a guy whom I think may be ready to consider the Red Pill truths about men and women.

I did make one recently and I was reminded again about the part in the Matrix where Morpheus explains to Neo that he’d broken protocol to unplug him. They never tried to free a mind once it reached a certain age. The mind has difficulties in letting go of “truths” it’s become dependent upon for its own survival.

That’s a pretty accurate analogy for dealing with unplugging other men as well as revealing Red Pill awareness to people too invested in a Blue Pill existence to listen to, much less acknowledge the rationality of a truth that destroys their self-sustaining ego investments.

But attempt it I did. The guy was a fairly high profile, but minor local celebrity who at 48 years old had just had a painful split with his 30 year old girlfriend. He’d been married once before, divorced for all the Blue Pill misguided pandering you might expect, and now here he was ‘blindsided’ by a girlfriend well above 2 SMV steps to his own. Even a basic understanding of the intersexual dynamics that the Red Pill illustrates would’ve spared him a repeat of his Beta behavior and her consequent dumping of him.

But there he was, again, in the same familiar depression due to the same repeated behaviors stemming from the same misinformed Blue Pill conditioned mindset. So I made the effort. I liked the guy. In most other aspects of life he’s very pragmatic, driven, focused and definitely Alpha. He’s got social proof, a low grade of celebrity, he’s affluent, and while somewhat arrogant at times very likable. However, he suffers from one fatal flaw – he is ego invested in a Blue Pill illusion of women so thoroughly that only a man who’s lived it his entire 48 years can understand it.

So I made an effort to just get him to read my book, or at least the Best of Year One posts. He’d have none of it. The reflexive response to what he’s been taught by the women in his life is misogyny short circuit for him. To be honest I was never really hopeful, but I made the effort from that base need to help another man avoid a painful fate – not unlike my reasons for writing at all.

I’ve got to ghost him now. Not because I’m an asshole or I’ve given up, but because it’s just not pragmatic to apply that effort when others would benefit more from it. He’s past that age Morpheus says the mind should never be freed and I’ve got to be OK with that.

That’s just the price of truth.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

506 comments on “Ghosting

  1. Rollo:

    “That’s just the price of truth.”

    I wear a bracelet that says ‘Veritas Illustrat.’ Goddamn it hurts sometimes, but it’s never made sense to me to do anything but follow the truth at any cost.

    I poured everything into an old one-itis and yet you told me that ‘hypergamy doesn’t care.’ Tried that one on, with tears. Yet here I am.

    Thanks man.

  2. Well, if I’m gonna be beaten to FIRST it might as well be by the OP 😉

    I’ll check it out, sounds cool.

  3. Timely post. Am approaching the one year no contact with my crazy ex. It’s an achievement. But this was actually the nature of my question to your podcast.

    When do you let go? I’ve now stopped talking to other guys about my recent successes with women or whatever other success I may have. Far from being a bonding experience or inspiring it only breeds resentment .

    In a world where white knights and betas are constantly trying to ündermine efforts and achievements finding a criteria to walk away is hard.

    I also walked away from a few friends who disrespected me. I didn’t make a speech or scene…I just quietly redirected my attention and efforts elsewhere.

    Ghosting has to be done like nexting…for yourself.

  4. The last paragraph doesn’t make much sense… if it really is as simple as “someone else could benefit more from my time” then why do you have to ghost him? If he isn’t receptive at all to the pill, why not just stop talking about it? Why cut him out completely?

    It seems like there is another reason here for you to ghost this guy, and I’m sure it would be informative for the readers if you went into them. You gave no indication that he had pegged you as a beta and was unwilling to respect you, which is what the first part of this article touched on.

  5. @Sam – Read the 10th Law of Power that he cited – avoid the unhappy and the unlucky. Ghosting a man who refuses to own up to his shit when women are chewing him up and spitting him out is about keeping your own mental and energetic hygiene sorted. Maintaining state is crucial for a man who is his own point of mental origin and allowing in those with Blue Pill views and negativity will drag you down.

    Living a life of high performance isn’t easy or for the sentimental. Low drag is crucial…

    @Rollo – Great post. The positive way of saying this would be to note how important it is to surround yourself with positive people and to minimize Blue Pill thinking around you. I’m finding that I have to cultivate a good Red Pill state daily and that the gravity of society will suck me back in if I’m not vigilant and thoughtful about what I allow into my space.

    Thankfully I mostly only have high powered, amazing men in my circle already. None are interested in the Red Pill but they aren’t fucking whiners or victims, and that’s all I ask.

  6. I have to disagree with at least some of this.

    I recently met up with several friends from high school, and they knew an awkward and socially naive teenager. They kept telling the new red-pill me how much I’ve changed, sharing stories of girls and generally being socially dominant, flirting with the waitress, etc.

    The one who was the most impressed was the closest to the red pill himself in highschool, though back then he still held onto certain idealisations. He’s actually more of a natural then anything, the other guys were more timid like I used to be but enjoyed our talk nonetheless.

    Compare this to friends from college who slowly saw and helped me grow from where I was in high school to now. I’m far better, but while I’ve still got things to work on they very much see me as close to the bottom of the group, and I’m deciding whether to ghost some or all of them despite the years of friendship and, objectively, job opportunities they provide.

    I’m curious if long periods of not being in contact allow you to effectively “re-set” that first impression or more accurately allow your new impression to overwhelm the memory of the old one.

    Any thoughts?

  7. Harkness, it’s a lot about congruency. If you just start banging girls w/o explainations you’re a ‘late bloomer’ and a badass. If you explain how you’re doing it you’re a creep and a loser.

    I have two friends who can semi-accept the post-RP me uncensored. The rest not so much. I’m grateful for that much frankly. All the others just see I’m different cause I just start talking to some random girl around them that’s walking by and she’s into it, and they just think I’m cool or something. Most people seem to believe in magic whenever they can’t explain something lol, don’t disabuse them of that notion.

  8. @Rollo

    Lately I’ve been refocusing my take on the process of mens’ unplugging and dealing with a new Red Pill informed way of living. The Gamer Girls post, while intentionally light reading (for TRM), was really a side of things I’ve wanted to explore for a bit now.

    Aye, I’ve been leaning that way a lot in my own thinking as well. My experiences in the nerd community were pretty much a microcosm for understanding the wider world. Despite the belief within that community that they escaped the judgement and hierarchies of the outside world that regarded them as rejects and that they’re not guilty of the same behavior, it just isn’t true. You get the same social structures just with various flavors of reject trying to decide which rejects they’re allowed to look down on.

    Human societies are just fractals of social hierarchies when it comes right down to it. You can’t escape it by joining or abandoning any sub or super culture. I supposed that’s a big part of why you can’t ever escape the Game.

    I’ve got to ghost him now. Not because I’m an asshole or I’ve given up, but because it’s just not pragmatic to apply that effort when others would benefit more from it. He’s past that age Morpheus says the mind should never be freed and I’ve got to be OK with that.

    That’s just the price of truth.

    I’m very fortunate that the friends I’ve kept close for the past 15-20 years have been very cool with my changes. I’ve always been outspoken and different so they’ve always expected me to forge odd new paths but always come out better in some way or another. I lost a couple of them, and some can’t really join me on my path yet, but very few of them have outright balked at my changes. Those that have balked I’ve already ghosted on, but I didn’t find it hard.

    I guess that’s what happens when you’ve ghosted on your own family for their abusive behavior. Makes ghosting on future damaging relationships much easier.

  9. Rollo,

    Ghosting after a profound trans-formative change is normal.
    I have been a Christian Missionary and I have been in sales. All persuasion that causes a change in world view creates a rift. Ask any addict or ask any Priest and they can tell you of the ones they left behind. Many will be quite sad about the friends and family they have moved past.

    I too am sad. But I also rationally realize that 80/20 is a bitch. And while you are sad about the people who don’t get it. They are simply part of the 80 percent that you MUST spend your precious time on. The 20 percent who get 80 percent of the red pill benefit make up for it in their enthusiasm.

    Its a fallacy that we think we can turn basic truths of the Universe to our advantage IN THIS ONE CASE. But in the end people sort themselves out not us. We all know when someone is ready for Red Pill Truth. We know the signs the lack of argument, the lack of debate and denial.

    This is why I only get excited about 20 percent types. Oh sure I’m polite to the 80 masses. I give the same spiel. But I only care about the ones that convert to the cause on the first words.

    They are the ones you treasure. And if there is Karma or Treasures in Heaven. It’s the 20 percent that make that happen… not the 80.

  10. thanks for sharing the personal story Rollo, I’ve been RP aware for about a year or two now, and have also learned like most men do how the vast majority of people are not open to our reality. Or even worse, hostile.

    Which leads me to think that we in the community should consolidate our positive sharing experiences, figure out how to identify someone who is open and how to talk to them. Pretty much — strategic evangelism.

    I was very fortunate with my brother, married 12 years with three kids, and he soaked up the RP in a way that has brought us much closer as men. And for that I’m tremendously grateful.

  11. People who knew you in your beta past will never respect you and you will never respect yourself if you choose to associate with them anymore.

    People who don’t respect you won’t change how they perceive you once you better yourself, they’ll see the old you and a new imposter.

    Given Rollo’s psychology background, I expected him to mention “Self-fulfilling prophecy”.

    Google the term, and the experiments, and you will know exactly why you must leave behind people who refuse to interact with the improved you and insist on treating you as the old you.

    *Caveat: If you move to a new environment/social circle and end up getting treated the same way, you are lying to yourself about the new you.

  12. I haven’t really faced this too much yet partly because, due to moving around frequently (relocating every 2-3 years almost) since I started working, the distance doesn’t allow me interact that much in person with my family or closer friends that know me for some years.

    I keep making new acquaintances / friends wherever I’m at, but don’t usually get very close anyway also knowing that I’d be moving out in a few years.

  13. @IAS

    Same thing for me. I had to let go one previously close friend though. Well.. for me it wasn’t as much letting go, as we just gone our separate ways, it was kinda natural.

  14. Harsh, but true about the need to ghost people. Once you’re the low man on the totem pole in a given group of people, it’s very, very hard to climb up to even the middle of the totem pole. Too often, others’ first impression of you is frozen in time. Of course, one should work to get their act together no matter what, but it may be best to at least keep a very healthy distance from the old group and find a different pond to swim in.

  15. OK – I’m not really getting this. Redpill knowledge about women, put concisely, is that women are more self-serving than they show themselves to be and are therefore more machiavellian than they show themselves to be (the machiavelllian descriptor is therefore rather redundant). The solipsism apparent in the feminine is something that can’t really be hidden and was always there for every man (bluepill included) to ponder about in any event, and either make excuses for or not.

    So once you see this why the heck would you have to rearrange your relationships (other than a realignment with your significant other, or a friendzone woman) in light of this? You just mitigate for this new knowledge within most of your existing relationships (like every other time you gained new knowledge). People will believe what they want to believe, and furthermore have the right to do so – always was like that – always will be. Categorizing redpill as praxeology implies that does it not?

    This mutual respect thing is a different matter. I agree you shouldn’t hang with people that are contemptuous or condescending towards you. But bluepill never counseled for that wrt man to man relationships. So if you got that going on with other men don’t blame that dumbness on your bluepill past. You were just dumb. Bluepill does encourage misinterpretation of outright or veiled contempt and condescension woman-on-man ….. so yes maybe there are some ladies that had friendzoned you (that you may have misinterpreted) that you now should probably ditch, upon awakening to redpill.

    So … not getting this ……. you have bluepill male friends and acquaintances and you are going to ditch them because they believe something different than you (or such women that have not friendzoned you)? Who would be contemptuous and condescending in that event? (like – yes – you probably aren’t going looking to pick up women with bluepill male friends, but they probably weren’t into that in the first place). Don’t you have friends that are of different religious persuasions or political persuasions than you for instance? This bluepill isn’t one size fits all either – there all kinds of shades of grey around each individual’s beliefs around this in any event.

    This bluepill thing is not like somebody is in the thug lifestyle, or a member of ISIS, or something like that. It just means they are mixed up about some things. I’m sure most redpill men are mixed up about something or another too (almost everyone is).

  16. What hurt the most was when I found out WHO had ghosted me. When I found TRP, I was a huge loser. I still am, two years later, but at least I designed a plan to improve and I began implementing it.

    My own brother ghosted me. If I think about it, it’s logical, I was dragging him down. Is there a way to be un-ghosted?

  17. @Narmo – If you mean is there a way to verbally persuade someone to un-ghost you, the answer is no. Telling someone you’re trying to get your shit together is unlikely to persuade. They will have to actually see you getting your shit together and draw that conclusion for themselves.

    FYI to all, there’s another one of those “End of Men” type articles out there, this time in the April ’16 issue of Psychology Today. Don’t have a link handy, I saw the print issue.

    It says mostly what you’d expect. But some of it is painful to ready anyway. One passage – “Many young men report that they are bewildered that women aren’t helping them move to the new model of masculinity that those very women say they want. As a 27 year-old exhorts: ‘Girls, please don’t misuse this leverage. We are cool to accept your growth as our growth.’ Instead, says a 35 year-old, young men ‘feel they are being check-listed and dismissed.'”

    Need I say more?

  18. Thanks guys – YaReally Sentient Forge, HABD, scribblerg, quixotic et al.

    Another post coming up replying to your comments about my ASD girl/hotel bars, but a new post below about giving up online dating.

    Monday night was “off”. Not for want of trying – I had TWO online dates flake independently. I’m used to the 50% online date flake thing and generally schedule two per day (or one and some other activity) but it is quite unusual for two to flake on the day of the date after confirming 24 hours ahead, leaving me with my dick in my hand.

    For various reasons some other work came up so I didn’t end up going out at all, but was really annoying.

    I’ve been thinking about this and I think I need to stop online dating completely. I’ve already stopped sugar sites, but now need to drop the rest of the crutch. It’s not just that going out cold approaching is the best way to improve and push my comfort zone and get reference experiences (although not the best way to get laid).

    That’s a big reason, but actually this online dating is so time consuming, for what in the end turns out to be little reward and so much flaking. It’s like 2 hours of cold approach may not get me laid immediately but it will sure as hell improve my skills a lot more than two hours sending emails or texting.

    The main advantage of online dating is that I can (a) do it in my downtime periods when I’m away from the big city not cold approaching and build a pipeline (but even then query whether that down time is better spent doing things like watching infield videos or Keys to the VIP and “studying the masters” the way tennis students study videos of Federer and Djokovic); and (b) When I do get through the flaking and meet up with a girl from online, my chances of getting laid (either first or second date, more rarely third) are pretty good since my escalation skills have improved quite a bit in the last couple years.

    Plus of course as Sentient pointed out a couple of days ago, it feeds too much into women’s logical mind to schedule an online date and you lose momentum (and given my age and circumstances there is major provider hunting going on with the chicks I meet, and I literally never get responses from the kind of hot early 20s chicks who were giving me IOIs all over the place on Saturday night).

    There is also a more subtle issue with online dating – it’s bad for my inner game in a non-obvious way. If I am cultivating the abundance mentality and that sex is everywhere and available chicks are everywhere to be accessed easy (sort of like a proto-fleezer mentality lol) then working so hard to send messages and texts to flaky online chicks and schedule meet ups to get flaked on is DESTRUCTIVE to that.

    It makes me invest huge amounts of effort in chicks I’ve not even met and artificially inflates their value because of the level of investment I have to put in even before I meet them! And on a day like yesterday when I wasted the whole evening – of my precious free time – because of a double flake, it KILLS my state and leaves me feeling a bit like the Early Scray “this is hopeless” quotes that YaReally posted recently from the old Scray FRs.

    But if I have limited down time in the big city, then it seems the best way to learn is cold approach/reference experiences. I’ve been fooling myself thinking I can do both – focus on online when I’m not in the big city and then focus on real life in the big city, supplemented by the online dating. But it is near impossible to avoid having the online dating take over your schedule.

    The single biggest downside of doing this of course is that 98% of my lays in the last couple of years have come from online dating. So I’m basically giving up on that and entering into sexual-frustration land until I get good enough at cold approach to start closing (once I get them on a Day 2 I’m fairly confident of course..).

    But I think I need to do this. I have another week left in the March Going Out Blitz and I’m hereby stopping online dating. I have loads of online girls on the go by text, so if I can schedule any of them for a date that doesn’t affect cold approach I will. But from now on – NO MORE NEW ONLINE DATING MESSAGES. This is my “accountability” post to you guys. I’m done with online.

    It won’t affect this month that much already since I’ve already built my online pipeline and am working off it. But it is going to be humbling doing my April and May Going Out Blitzes purely as cold approach without a ready made online pipeline to fall back on..

  19. @Wild Man: “So … not getting this ……. ”

    So … try reading the article …….”

  20. Along with the message of this post, we should remember that we should only give help if it is first asked for. Of course, if we see a problem, setting out breadcrumbs might lead to someone asking for help.

    E.g., create a dread of being cuckolded in someone who likely has been cuckolded (e.g., a man in a sexless marriage) and a dread of frivorce in someone who is at risk of being frivorced. “I found this interesting article on declining sex in marriage. I’d like to get your take on it.”

  21. As we discussed over on Dalrock’s blog, letting go of an old friend who is a “good man” but not good at being a man might seem callous. However, as I pointed out, trying to rescue someone who is drowning can be dangerous. They can drag you down just by being around them.

  22. Timely article Rollo. I just clipped somebody yesterday.. not a close friend but someone I’ve known for quite a few years. There’s a saying “don’t argue with a crazy person”, and that’s really what it feels like trying to associate with those folks. In his case he’d become some super SJW against Trump, so it wasn’t difficult to make the break. But still..

  23. @YaReally and other guys out infield, I have a special request:

    This is a quote from YaReally’s archives, from one of the links posted recently in the Gamer Girls thread

    “… I actually like the comfort/rapport stage a lot. A lot of guys get bored with it and it’s just a necessary evil to them, but I really like to see what makes people tick and break through their bullshit exteriors to talk to them on an internal level. This is part of why I build comfort/rapport with people (guys, girls, old people, etc.) REALLY fast, like they feel like they’ve known me for years when it’s only been a few minutes…it’s because I’m getting to know them on a level that only maybe their best friends of 20+ years know them. Like they’re keeping everyone else at arms length but I just steamroll through that and get in close on the level that only their close friends and family know them…and often I’ll get to know them BETTER than their friends/family know them because I talk to them about inappropriate subjects that their friends would judge them for.”

    I had seen one of the videos that YaReally suggests (he usually goes Mystery Method, McRae, La Ruina) – this one in particular is La Ruina, which covers something similar to this focusing on figuring out Character Traits, Emotions, Motivation to get into a deep connection with someone really fast. It came to my mind when I read that quote from YaReally.

    More so than getting better at opening, I’d really like to get good at doing that kind of stuff. It seems more useful to me in my current situation (married not wanting to cheat). Advice?

  24. I brought the TRM book with me on a group holiday last summer. Tried to instruct a guy around 26 about women. Clearly he was pretty green. He agreed to the scandalous behavior of today’s western women. He was all ears when I ranted for an hour at the poolside. Some other guys also listened and commented. Even a girl agreed about the fcked up Tinder culture and awful state of relationships between people in this consumerist age. But if there is one thing striking for modern people its that they don’t want to spend time or energy on fixing the problem they know they have. I send this guy the link to this site, I even wanted to give him my book (for free) he didn’t want it. Men don’t want no red pills, the want a pill that will solve their incompetence with women or their problems instantaneously. Men like that aren’t worth your energy. You should ghost them, because it tells a lot about their character. You clearly see they are in pain from the problems interacting with women, still they don’t want to learn. They rather spend $1000 for a PUA weekend than to go read some free articles on a website.

  25. The whole unplugging and RP bitterness/disillusionment is real for me as I am old and married (insert joke…). So the real possibility of ghosting the SO has come up with me. I won’t next her (…yet a few more months still to decide), but ghosting does happen within the marriage by denial of time or attention for shitty behavior.

    For those fortunate boys who do read this site and have yet to be fully enmeshed in the FI bankrupt ideals you will be spared.

  26. Analogy time: A man’s blue-pill past is his Matrix. When he meets people who’ve known his previous self, he automatically plugs back into the Matrix. I have no desire to interact with people who only see me as the weak battery they once knew.

  27. I found it interesting that Rollo’s 48 yr old friend just refused to accept RP truths. I discovered TRP at the age of 41, but I wonder how old is too old to be able to make the transition from the Blue to the Red? Or is it the degree of trauma needed to shake you awake?

  28. The words of PlansAndPlates hit really close to home. In my case it wasn’t really about turning Red Pill, it was about becoming a man and learning to respect myself.

    When I was out of my teenage years, I came to the realization that almost all of my relationships where based on mutual abuse, from my family, to my friends, to the girls I dated, to my co-workers, and I decided that it wasn’t going to be that way anymore. I started changing. I became a better person to others, but at the same time, I also put up clear boundaries about what kind of behavior I considered acceptable or not.

    It was a really rough time which resulted in me growing apart from my best friend, from a girl I was dating, and even from my own brother. I almost cut ties with my parents when they seemed adamant in not changing their treatment of me. Huge fights and arguments followed for months on end, when these people would not accept that I wasn’t going to tolerate their mistreatment anymore (sounds insane, I know, but some people actually get angry that you don’t let them walk all over you).

    But it was all worth it.

    After a year in the process, I felt liberated. I was my own man. I decided what was right or wrong for me, who was in or out of my life. More than that, I had a clear conscience, knowing I wasn’t mistreating others anymore. And to my surprise, some people actually followed my lead and started improving themselves too. I found new, better friends, my relationship with my family improved dramatically, my relationships with girls became nearly devoided of drama. And even my brother, whom I spent years without talking to, eventually came to his senses and reached out to me.

    If anyone reading this just found out about the Red Pill, or like me, just realized that you won’t take abuse from the people around you anymore, dude, go for broke. It will hurt like hell, it will be hard for a long time, but when you gain control of your life, when you feel free, you’ll feel like it was a cheap price to pay.


    Now, on the subject of discussing Red Pill truths IRL, I do that everyday. I’m around women all day, both at work and college, and I tease them constantly about these things. It’s the way you say it, not what you say. Just say it playfully with an air of amused mastery and they’ll giggle like little girls or get embarrassed for saying silly things. I never get called out on it, they know I’m a “cad” and that I speak the truth while not giving a fuck about what’s PC. Even the occasional bile spewing feminist (which is way too rare, thankfully) will just shut up because of the social pressure (nobody wants to be the party pooper, if everyone is having a good time and laughing, she won’t start an argument).

  29. “While the truth of Red Pill awareness is universally understandable, the application of it needs an individualized approach.”

    I was just thinking about this yesterday with all the posts in the last thread. The end goal of the mindset is seems to be basically the same, but everyone seems to tackle different issues and in a different order to get there. Fascinating.


    Hey man, I finished reading that “Taboo of knowing yourself” book(slow reader). Loved it. Thanks for the recommendation. It perfectly ties in to red pill and pua stuff. Also, it kind of expounded on views I’ve already had about the universe. 🙂

  30. IMO Weather or not someone is ready to except the truth vs the rules of the game,is less an age factor and has more to do with hitting a bottom.
    If someone is still toying with the idea that maybe if they did this or that differently things would be different next time, they haven’t fully exhausted all personal effort.
    There is a school of thought in the recovery biz that the best time for intervention is in the remorse stage. While this is a most likely time for a person to recognize they’re bottom,it doesn’t mean they have hit it.
    When a person has lost all self respect and fully concede that all efforts are useless,then they are ready to accept new ideas,and make the changes necessary to survival.
    While it only makes sense that an older person is less likely to accept change and therefore closer to the precipice,they also have more practice at walking the edge.
    There is a type of ghosting where the teacher says their piece, it is rejected the teacher is then ghosted.This teacher then makes their self available as a ghost spotter if you will ready to catch the fool as they go over the edge.
    While fools are painful to watch,the practice of wrighting them off is also painful and the saving of one going over the edge is very rewarding.

    I currently find myself in the situation,my sons divorce is in the rumor mill and i need to spot the time to go and listen to him. As he is still very much plugged in . While it concerns me it is not my concern until he makes it so. I feel it is important to be there before he makes it the concern of the wrong people,as someone in a weak position often does.

  31. If you are always moving forward, you will always leave people behind. Just how it is.

    For me it started in HS… Left all my friends when they went on to blue collar work or dropped out and I moved on to college. Left college friends when I moved away with my unicorn girl and then married at 23. Left other newly marrieds when I had a kid at 24. left more friends when the business I started at 24 grew… Then moved away… then started a second biz… etc etc etc. Keep moving forward, enjoy the time you have with those you enjoy along the way.

  32. IAS

    “More so than getting better at opening, I’d really like to get good at doing that kind of stuff. It seems more useful to me in my current situation (married not wanting to cheat). Advice?”

    Advice… yes, if you don’t want to have sex with these women, don’t even try getting good at rapport… because attraction and rapport and then the kino… all leads to sex. It’s inevitable and the only reason men and women speak at all…

    So take an honest moment with yourself and figure what you really want. Because if you just want to keep your wife on her toes, the vibe you get from opening and flirting and getting IOIs is enough. No reason to play with fire.v Unless you haven’t been honest with yourself and are looking for plausible deniability and excuses..

  33. Ironically, this post was great timing for me. I went to a basketball game with some old friends on Sunday, and afterward I was left with a bitter taste in my mouth because of their behavior. They were disrespectful in so many ways that is has forced me to make a decision about how I want to deal with them going forward. I don’t know if I will full on ghost them, but I have very little desire to interact with them on a regular basis. I also think there’s a component of jealousy and envy. My success with women since I’ve turned 30 has surpassed anything either of them would have imagined I’d be capable of (we’re all 31 now). One of my friends has to rely on prostitutes to get sex, and the other only seems to have success when he travels. So for them to see me consistently pulling girls who are in their early 20s right here at home I think produces some resentment, especially since most of our memories together are from a more beta time in my life.

    Another important point of note is that I can’t trust them to have my back in a dicey situation. There have been times where I have gotten into some tense moments with beta orbiters and white knights trying to cock block me. And in these moments my friends stand by idly and watch. Some times they will even lie to me and themselves that they didn’t see what had happened to try and excuse their bitch like behavior. Personally, when I’m out with family and friends I instinctually keep a look out for trouble. It’s a hindbrain thing and doesn’t require much conscious effort. Whatever the reason is for their behavior; fear, apathy, or maybe part of them wants to see me get hurt to try and bring me down a couple pegs, it doesn’t really matter. It’s obvious they are unreliable and their resentful/disrespectful behavior adds no value to my life. In fact one can see how they can make situations worse or possibly even more dangerous than is necessary.

  34. Thank you Rollo this post has been on my mind for about a mouth. Ive lost all my old buddy’s ever one of them. Rugby is barely holding me with being social but the beta in me is dying… The alpha hasnt time for the people who drove him into being a beta. I am More than aware of my Ghosting about 10 people won’t speak with me anymore. I don’t think im going to share the red pill anymore unless someone ask’s me first.

    This is a Painfully Process…
    Thank you for caring about all the people who change from the inside out without losing their soul and lives in the process.

    @Rollo Tommasi
    Wonder what you think of this.

  35. Culum

    “Plus of course as Sentient pointed out a couple of days ago, it feeds too much into women’s logical mind to schedule an online date and you lose momentum”

    Glad you brought this back up. I read Ya’s breakdown and it was at odds with mine… His prescribing more comfort (maybe more time with her?) and I was proposing shorter time together and shorter male out etc. relying on attraction to overwhelm ASD, which you can do sub 1 hour for sure…


    That scenario, at least for me, has played out only via cold approach. Not online dating sites. So I know IRL if you bump into a girl you can flood her senses and if you can isolate and lead, pull her right then and there (even no names!)… I know Kant was killing on Tinder in sub 1 hour lays (set meet, meet, 1 drink, go up to his place, bang)… And this raises another question… medium bias…

    So in cold approach, there is no preconceived bias and quickly emotion takes over and crushes the hamster. On Tinder, well it’s a hook up app, so the bias is looking for sex (we can avoid the whole what Tinder is becoming debate for this hypothetical) so the mind is primed for sex… and game gently guides through the maze…

    But online dating like Match or whatever, the bias is to withhold sex and gear for a relationship… That’s the marketing pitch. YES guys can via good game get quick lays, BUT it seems you are always going to come at it with a HUGE ASD wall to get over.. Perhaps the trick for online is lots of comfort… IDK

    Something to think about.

    Your better point of course is to abandon this for the reasons you give and just do non stop cold approach… It kills me when all you single unattached dudes compartmentalize your pick up to “Big City” or a few towns over or Saturday night… Really good looking women are everywhere and you have no excuses not to be openeing and running game and trying to pull and if that doesn’t work getting numbers and day 2s then…

    Really… everyplace I go I run into good looking girls. Cashiers, in parking lots, on lines in stores, waitresses, girls on the street walking, coffee shops, restaurants E V E R Ywhere…

    Just get after it. If she’s attractive open her.

  36. @rugby11

    Wonder what you think of this.

    It’ll be blocked. If legalized abortion strictly under the control of the female is about giving females maximum sexual agency while minimizing male sexual agency, that law would at least give men some agency back. Notice that it was not met with enthusiasm.

    While I personally do not have any issues with any form of birth control (abortion included), I’ve also long recognized that if we’re going to give women full control of them then men need some form of legal protection that resembles abandonment of legal responsibilities. That would also include abandoning much of the welfare system as it currently stands so that men can’t be held legally responsible by proxy.

    The entire idea forces sole responsibility back on to women for their decisions, which is why I’m pretty sure it won’t happen. The current system of “heads I win, tails you lose” is too beneficial to them to change it at all.

  37. Culum Yareally

    From Ya’s other post

    ” I’ve been tweaking the vibe I give off because I’m noticing a lot of girls in the 23-29yo range (this one is 24) are starting to push for a little more than fuckboi and fuck-friend/friends with benefits arrangements. They seem to want to “do” stuff instead of just fuck”

    I think the issue Yareally is having here is the average AGE of his girl is trending up as his age trends up… and this is the age more girls are doing online dating as well…

    Basically out of college shit is getting real for them and they are getting the first stirrings of the baby clock and all… see the end of the carousel or at least start to feel it in a general way.

    Seems to be just a demographic thing, older more ASD/LMR – but all to THE purpose… some form of commitment.

    So I bet you don’t see this trend in the 18-22 age…

  38. @Wildman – “OK – I’m not really getting this.” – And this is a new development? I didn’t read any further, honestly. You don’t get this because you don’t want to. You are ego invested in some other stuff that isn’t useful for Red Pill men. You keep trying and trying and trying to twist this to your will and bend these ideas and promote your ideas – but nobody is buying. Please, do yourself a favor and take the “Not Born This Morning” challenge I issued to him. Go build your own blog and community based on your ideas. Test them and see how they work for improving men’s lives on a large scale. See how they help men embrace a positive view of themselves and their own masculinity. Show us the thousands comments from men who claim you helped them stop living lives of misery and soul death. Show us how many men you’ve brought back from the brink of suicide and madness.

    I dare you to actually stand for your ideas and try to make something of them. You aren’t doing so here, and your name on a comment is a just a signal to use my scroll wheel now, do you get that? I think you don’t care, I think this is about your ego and the buffers you have to erect to preserve your own false consciousness. As long as you stay in this commenting game you are stuck. Either put a stake in the ground and start your own movement and really take yourself seriously or get that you are pretty much full of shit – for your own good. You seem like a good guy in many ways, but this loop of nonsense from you is utterly uninteresting.

    Okay, gotta shut this thing off again for the day!

  39. @Sentient I’m killing it with online dating. I’ve banged 7 girls this year. Half I met online. Of the girls I’ve met online, I bang them within an hour of meeting–usually they come over.

    It’s now at the point I don’t waste my time on “dates” anymore…I spike attraction, move to comfort (in text) then go for the meet up. I often propose coming over to my place and if they agree, it’s on.

    I sexualize early in the texts: “have you ever had a blue-eyed lover?” The word “lover” works better than “boyfriend”…. Once I incept the idea, they start using the word too.

    Also, I made a tactical error the other night which actually worked to my advantage.

    I met a girl at bar. We danced, I gamed her–tons of teasing, hair pulling, eye contact. Then she had to leave—more teasing “You’re night’s complete after dancing with me…right”….she asked “Will I see you around?” I was so surprised I gave a vague response: possibly, Saturday.

    I met her Saturday, again gamed her. As she was leaving, she came by my table to say bye: Her: “you won’t believe this…but I’m leaving…again just after dancing with you…”

    I number closed her. Texted later. Then we bantered and were going to go dancing. I suggested drinks after. We couldn’t agree on where to go dancing, so she suggested we just meet up for drinks later.

    Even 3 years ago I wasn’t capable of being this “smooth”. This girl is HB7, young, bubbly, a “feminist” which I quickly shot down: “I’m wearing the pants in this chat young lady…”

    The point I make with these examples is that boldness is all that is needed.

    I see the needy betas desperately becoming orbiters to girls I’ve already banged and I laugh.

    Remember the cute 22 year old I gamed who came over and then got cold feet? ASD etc etc. I blew her off. Then I saw her at a party…completely ignored her last 2 times i’d seen her. She tries to make eye contact.

    Ghosting, nexting, no contact—are powerful tools in a man’s game arsenal.

    Also, I rarely talk about game to my male friends. It’s ironic, a gay guy I know can talk about his love life, wear drag to parties and everyone laughs along. I talk about meeting up with a 23 year old and the white knights I was with were shocked….that’s the world we live in.

  40. @Culum
    Good man. Your thoughts on online dating are all pretty dead on. It’s a crutch…a convenient one at times, but you will get better reception infield (especially if you’re using preselection, social proof, group theory leading men, etc) from hotter girls than with online where you’re jumping through hoops before you’ve even seen if they have all their teeth or are hiding a fat body.

    Juggler Method

    “I think the issue Yareally is having here is the average AGE of his girl is trending up as his age trends up…”

    oh the 18yo’s still love me lol But I’m open to anything in the <30yo age range. I prefer 22-25 ideally, but if I have good chemistry with like a 29yo I'll give her a go.

    The unfortunate-for-society reality of 2016 is that a lot of girls have multiple fuckbois and a lot of experience under their belt even as young as 18. Like 20 years ago a girl would probably have to be 25+ to be that jaded with casual sex, but now you'll run into 18yo's past that stage already.

    "and this is the age more girls are doing online dating as well…"

    Right, which is another reason Culum should ditch it if he can. Like, I used to do lots of online shit, but I noticed the quality of the women dropping over the years and now it's just a ton of ugly damage cases and single moms with baggage and shit because the bottom of the barrel has realized they can hook a good provider beta chode or get a drunk alpha fuck, so of course they swarm to it. And the chodes hear they can get laid by ANYTHING so THEY swarm to it. Then the hot girls don't want to deal with the chode masses and bail and the cool guys don't want to compete for shitty scraps so they bail, and then we all find eachother in the bar again. 😀

    But ya, there's definitely a shift in dynamic with the girls when they pass 25-ish and start looking more at relationship stuff…but I think that dynamic is extending down in age range as that "I just want to settle down and have a stable life with a boyfriend instead of riding the carousel" turning point tends to come from casually fucking a lot of guys and wanting more, and like a 21yo girl is now often more sexually experienced than a 30yo from 20 years ago when there weren't so many options and such a casual attitude toward sex in our culture.

    "Basically out of college shit is getting real for them and they are getting the first stirrings of the baby clock and all… see the end of the carousel or at least start to feel it in a general way."

    I don't even know if it's related to the baby clock, that's sort of my point, that I'm noticing this trend extend downward into the younger girls. It used to be that it was like the 30+yos that would try to push for dates as well as sex, because they had the most experience, but with the way society has shifted I think there's a trend where girls are hitting that "jaded by the carousel but don't know how to get off it and happily stay off it" point earlier…which is all the more reason I wouldn't recommend guys get married. Even when the girl DOES find a guy to date her as well as fuck her, that guy is walking a tightrope in 2016 to try to keep her from fucking anyone else even if he understands hypergamy and shit. Way too much of a dice roll to put your money/assets/life on.

    "Seems to be just a demographic thing, older more ASD/LMR – but all to THE purpose… some form of commitment. So I bet you don’t see this trend in the 18-22 age…"

    Right now the lowest I've seen it is around 23-24…that seems to be the age where they finish their hardcore partying stage and have carouselled and Tindered enough that they're hoping there's more out there. But I would bet in 5-10 years it'll go even lower.

    I don't even know what kind of ripples that would cause across society if that trend continued to where gaming a hot 18yo became the same as gaming a husband-hunting baggage-carrying carousel-ridden 35yo, especially with the madonna/whore complex and media conditioning for what's acceptable and VR sex/sexbots etc…that would be an interesting thought experiment.

    And I don't really attribute this to my own age much because a lot of of these girls don't even know my age when I'm interacting with them or it's such a non-issue to them that they aren't even fazed by how much older I am. It seems to be more on their end and their level of jadedness with the hookup culture.

  41. I found the rational male late in 2011, which is the year my life crumbled; so I was beginning to implement it’s guidelines into my life. I ghosted all the people from my blue pill past back in 2012. It was very hard because I lost regular contact with friends I’d had since I was a boy. (I’m late 30’s now) It had to be done. To this day I don’t seek any of their company. All those friends were steeped in blue pill mindset and were an enormous hindrance to my healing and rebirth. I even limited contact with my family. I pretty much lived like a monk until 2015. If you have no access to red-pill friends IRL, participate in online discussions as much as you can. It helps take a lot of the sting out of the red pill bitters.

  42. Rollo,
    Like you said it seems the older you are the harder it is to unplug and the bigger price you pay to unplug. The cost of lost friendships and family ties is immense. But there is no hiding the truth. Though painful it really will “set you free”. It is sad though the tremendous costs you pay to break away.

    The only people I share the Red Pill with are those who are so broken and desparate by the failings of the Blue Pill that they will finally listen.
    I have shared the Red Pill successfully with only one family member and that’s because I want to try to save his marriage. It was worth the risk if hopefully he can turn things around but it will be extremely difficult. But ( like you said) his wife will always think of him as his former self. Very few people can accept the new you. But if things don’t change I fear another divorce looming……………….

  43. @walawala
    “I spike attraction, move to comfort (in text) then go for the meet up. I often propose coming over to my place and if they agree, it’s on.”

    This has been my M.O. for years and worked great but it’s gotten tougher. I wonder if it’s partly a cultural thing (not sure what the sexual culture over there is like, like how sexually active the average 21yo is, or what society’s views on hooking up or going over a guy’s place etc is, or how much value is placed on being an independent womyn that isn’t tied down, or how much judging/shaming there is for being sexually active, etc).

    End of the day though, girls is girls. That’s why while I was pontificating about these observations in the other thread, I added that I’m very certain that changing up my game would probably make a difference, like doing more push/pull, aloof, win-me-over, make them chase, hook them then ignore them, ghost on them for being difficult, freeze them out for not putting out etc, and may be more what your game style looks like.

    I report this stuff as I experience it but like I say, no formal official conclusions on it until there’s way more data. I could just be the slow old dinosaur getting lazy/comfortable and need to step up aspects of my game, like I KNOW I could be doing a lot more push/pull and freezing out and playing hard-to-get VS giving them validation too easily (which used to get me laid fast but now seems to have turned into more of a hindrance with how much abundance they have in 2016).

  44. @wala

    “@Sentient I’m killing it with online dating. I’ve banged 7 girls this year. Half I met online. Of the girls I’ve met online, I bang them within an hour of meeting–usually they come over.
    It’s now at the point I don’t waste my time on “dates” anymore…I spike attraction, move to comfort (in text) then go for the meet up. I often propose coming over to my place and if they agree, it’s on.
    I sexualize early in the texts: “have you ever had a blue-eyed lover?” ”

    I don’t doubt it, you are the shiny object over there AND you have game so you can capitalize on the contrast (contrast = alpha, all things equal). Good for you.

    Do you think the Asian guys are having the same success banging them in an hour from online?

  45. I think you can swallow the pill at any age…if you had inklings about the red pill before. I figured it all out about 1985 and went Monk Mode for a couple years, then met a Unicorn, made her jump through every hoop I could think of and she passed.

    My Unicorn remained a Unicorn for 24 years, so I stuffed the red pill file away in a dusty corner of my brain…until like many women do, she hit peri-Menopause and over the space of year changed into someone neither my kids or myself even recognized anymore and left us. So at 56 I was forced to drag out the old 286 brain and reboot the floppy disk Red Pill 1.0. It wasn’t easy, but then anything worthwhile seldom is…

  46. @Ronin, care to share for the benefit of the younger guys here any of the “peri-menopausal” warning signs you got prior to her splitting. I’m guessing you had many signs and clues beforehand.

  47. Another good post.
    I am glad you mentioned Praxeology because it is the foundation of both economics and a pillar for social ethics. Ludwig von Mises was the greatest Economist of the 20th century if greatest is defined as contributing the most in advancing accurate knowledge. Anyone who wants to understand economics can skip the top tier MBA programs (I have a top tier MBA) and simply study von Mises and his two great pupils, Rothbard and Hayek. You will know more about economics than 99% of MBAs if you do so.

  48. @YaReally, After seeing several of your posts that give newbies a roadmap, I was thinking that it’s be cool if you could make a link on your site to a dedicated page to that graphic that shows the MM A1 through S3 and provide a brief description. I found it on: (scroll down). That’s gold, but short of bookmarking it, which I now did, it get’s lost in the volume for any newbie searching for the framework.

  49. theasdgamer @ 4:49 am:
    “As we discussed over on Dalrock’s blog, letting go of an old friend who is a “good man” but not good at being a man might seem callous. However, as I pointed out, trying to rescue someone who is drowning can be dangerous. They can drag you down just by being around them.”

    That wasn’t what was discussed. You only ghost friends when they DO drag you down, not just because they might.

    Keeping Blue Pill friends around lets one teach by example, or at least demonstrate what Red Pill has to offer. Even Christ resorted to “show, don’t tell” tactics.

    When they become a liability, that’s when you do what must be done.

    1. I think a lot of guys are confusing my ghosting as some exercise in being callous or unsympathetic with this guy. If that were the case I wouldn’t bother writing this blog or books.

      I have a great many friends and business associates who are locked in a Blue Pill existence – in fact I have far more Blue Pill / Beta friends than I do guys who I’d say are Red Pill aware. Am I being a dick for not even attempting to help these men unplug and live better lives?

      I’m one of the three Rs in the manosphere, imagine having me as a personal resource or a wingman on a Friday night. But these guys aren’t ready to be unplugged, their conditioning has made them dependent upon Blue Pill expectations and goals they work very hard to make happen. So being the dream killer and showing them the cold truths about how those Blue Pill goals are built on falsehoods threatens the existence they’ve invested themselves in for so long.

      I’m simply being pragmatic and reserving my efforts to help the largest body of men who are ready to open their eyes. Unfortunately that time of transition usually comes when men are the most traumatized, and in fact that’s the real test of how invested a man is in his Blue Pill conditioning; that in spite of the trauma he’s suffered in having the Blue Pill reveal the real purpose behind it, he’ll still cling to the same Blue Pill hopes and goals that brought him to that trauma.

  50. djreddyfox, I am 48 and came across this whole thing maybe 4 or 5 years ago – hard to tell, since I self-woke, and sort of slowly slid into consciousness. I noticed glitches in the programming (so to speak) years before but hadn’t put it together until my life’s pain level exceeded my patience. So it’s possible for older guys to do it, but much harder. There’s a continuous temptation to try to counter all the god-awful advice out there, spread by grinning eunuchs trying to get their balls back by getting everyone else to remove their own. But telling the truth straight out never works unless they too have started to question the “reality” they’ve been taught.

    Knowing all this doesn’t lessen the temptation at all.

    Forge, I need to find a bracelet like yours. “Veritas Illustrat” is stark and harsh and beautiful.

  51. @ Sentient, IAS

    Advice… yes, if you don’t want to have sex with these women, don’t even try getting good at rapport… because attraction and rapport and then the kino… all leads to sex. It’s inevitable and the only reason men and women speak at all…

    Naah, I do kino a lot and it’s not an issue. Just don’t look too much at the broad’s face and you won’t get an oxytocin addiction to her face, which can be really annoying (make you shy, confused, etc. when you see her and oxytocin hits your brain like a 2×4 between the eyes). I get rapport, too, not a problem for me. For her, sure, lol, you become a “black knight”. Think of all the single girls in the Song of Solomon who praise the Man to his woman.

    For autists like me, it’s quite easy to avoid fucking a beautiful woman. It goes with the territory and is one of the key characteristics that is used to diagnose autism. I’ve only had one instance where I went into auto-gaming–the woman was exceptionally beautiful and charming and sweet. I recognized what was going on pretty quickly and pulled back. Sucked for both of us, but only for a moment. I still remember her face.

    Another broad I danced with a lot and got an addiction to her face which caused annoyance for me, but still didn’t make me want to fuck her. Avoiding her was easy and time helps kill the addiction.

  52. “I’ve personally known guys who’ve read my body of work, came to a Red Pill awareness, and then immediately wanted to explain it all to their friends only to find themselves ostracized from their regular social group because their sudden change diametrically conflicts with what they’ve been conditioned to expect from him”

    That “immediately wanted to explain it all” part is the problem. Don’t do this. What you do is you start living it. Then those who aren’t on board fall away, or you cut them out.

    The first rule of Fight Club is: You don’t talk about Fight Club.

  53. I wouldn’t say that first impressions last forever in the sense that people will never see you any other way. Some people can’t see anything any other way. It’s “not getting it”. Like a guy at work who doesn’t know enough to not say the same joke over and over. You can humor him, ignore him, try not responding, but he still keeps doing it no matter how unfunny it was the first time, the fact that he’s the only one laughing at his own joke completely escaping him.
    Then if you finally lay it out for him how much of a dumb ass he’s been, he’s only going to think you’re too uptight. You have to ghost some people. But the world of the athlete is common to have people who over come first impressions, learn, and gain respect for developing beyond those first impressions.

  54. Scray scribblerg newlyaloof

    He he Newly posting that link to the old CH posts, and this video of Mystery infield provoking shit festpalooza and smashing them to bits…

    a reminder that “peacocking” is a sure fire way to provoke shit tests… This kind of test is always going to be based on something physical, something she can see… and you DON’T need a fuzzy hat…

    So Scray is short, so he’s got that built in… anything hard coded physical is likely to be a target, YaReally belly fat (lol), if you are too tall, too skinny ugly hair… that stuff. age, for older guys is a big one … the thing is you should be prepared for it, if you’ve been out you know it’s coming LOL but if you haven’t just give yourself an appraisal…

    Her: Hmmm…. How old are you?!? (stroking small crows foot at my eye)
    Me: Heh, well you know what they say (laser… pause…) It’s not the years it’s the miles. (laser, Smirk, move to kino)

    But beyond just unchangeable physical characteristics, what can you do to provoke more tests without going “fuzzy hat”?

    Contrast is key.

    My theory of contrast is that contrast reads as alpha, and the evo-bio behind it is it signals outgroup status and maybe better genes… So throw some contrast in your game.

    I like to wear a lot of cashmere sweaters, so you will always get guys and girls touching you and making some remark, especially if you are in a more dive bar like environment (Contrast!). Since you know it’s coming, it’s easy to smash and amog and be cool… Oh and wedding rings too!

    Another show of contrast is in manner/custom… so if everyone is drinking bottles of beer, drink a martini or vice versa… always get comments.

    Another way is via unpopular or different remarks… Feminism is awesome to crush, politics, men/women all are great topics to blow minds if you have a strong frame, know what your talking about… just don’t make it an argument… remember you are playing to win her not win the argument! You can always scale back down with “hey i’m just fucking around with you… (kino) So who you here with?”


  55. Rollo, you created a body of work that men can access when they realize that they need help. If they don’t need help and are Blue Pill, they likely will avoid your blog if not actively oppose it through trolling or creating their own blog.

    You don’t actively engage your Blue Pill friends on controversial sexual issues because you don’t need to. It just doesn’t come up unless you choose to bring it up. That’s not necessarily the case for some of the rest of us. In my case, my friends and acquaintances frequently bring up the fact that I’m going out clubbing without Mrs. Gamer and many assume that we are having problems without me saying anything overtly. Mrs. Gamer and I generally have been on good terms for the last 9 months or so, so I’m certain that I’m not giving off nonverbal signals that my marriage is rocky. It could be that girls are misreading a little kino. I have to say things like “I wear the pants” to explain why I don’t need Mrs. Gamer’s permission to leave the house at night. That, of course, gets into controversial sexual issues. Some men say “That’s cool” and others keep quiet (I assume that they are offended). The ones who keep quiet usually drift away.

    So, in my case, the ghosting is inevitable. However, I’m helping one friend because he has been asking for help.

  56. I rarely get asked how old I am. Girls usually “upqualify” me as young. If they are serious, I tell them and they usually don’t believe me, lol. Age hasn’t been an issue for dancing. My marital status, otoh, is a frequent issue.

    Age shit test: “Old enough to know better and too young to care.”

    Marital status shit test: “We’re dancing, not having sex.”

    Not wearing ring shit test: “It doesn’t fit any more and I don’t want to replace it.”

  57. from that reddit link, I’d say the guy who returned the book unread didn’t catch hell when she saw it, I’d say he’s more brainwashed by the ‘inherently flawed male’ that’s all over pop culture.
    Bet he decided not to read it just based on the title. She would never see it.

  58. Some folks will never view you as anything more than what they knew you as years before. I have the memory of the scene in the movie “Goodfellas” where Tommy runs into an old boss who only remembers him for shining shoes. “No more shines” is not acceptable for the old boss. He still wants to treat him as an underling and disrespect him with jokes..

    Hopefully nobody else will have to beat their old friends to death and bury them upstate. Ghosting seems like a better choice.

  59. @Sentient: I’m pretty certain I can control myself. YaReally’s and La Ruina’s point was that by gaming properly you can get to know people as their best friends do or even better.

    So in theory if I know to do that and don’t escalate into sex, presumably I just get Friend zoned (or Gay zoned, or Married zoned if that actually exists for women) and would have a genuine friend. Right?

    Plus I wouldn’t just be using this on women, if I had the skills (like YaReally said, he does it to guys, girls, people in general).

    Having a go at Juggler method, this was one of the links when I googled it:

  60. “People who don’t respect you won’t change how they perceive you once you better yourself, they’ll see the old you and a new imposter.”

    So how do you get around ghosting a significant other? A few years into the RP, still occasionally failing shit-tests with the wife with her always bringing up old sh*t. We have a couple kids so I want to believe that her running her mouth, i’m unhaaaappppy, want a divorce, etc can be turned around as I continue to improve in all areas (running the MAP) and drastically reduce # of failed shit-tests, but the idea that she will never come around is seeming increasingly likely.

    How can I tell if she really hates my guts or if this is just her inherently miserable nature? She asks for divorce after every disagreement, big or small, but she clearly could go file and take me to cleaners anytime, so I discount the bluster but perhaps I am still naive and will get slammed with it soon. But in terms of fitness, career/$$$, game/dread/etc I have upped the ante across the board and I’m still getting frequent pushback. All this improving feels like getting dressed up in a tuxedo to go to McDonalds – there’s no way a 6 should be this demanding. Staying for the kiddos but sometimes feel I am negotiating with a terrorist that has already decided to take me out regardless of my cooperation.

    On the bright side I have mostly stopped the appeasing, doing a lot of stuff that formerly BP-self would have feared as suicidal to the relationship when in reality the NFG attitude seems to work well when can pull it off. I hate having to read “Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better” every morning, but damn

  61. you need to take responsibility for your life.

    if your social life is shitty, it’s your fault. like…you can choose what activities you partake in and your friends.

    be a man, set some fucking boundaries.

    and get serious about them

    once someone crosses the line, walk away. it’s that simple.

    they aren’t going to change. past behavior predicts future behavior.

    at first it will be difficult walking away from what you used to know.
    but once you start being EXTREMELY SELECTIVE about who you let in to your life past the point of an acquaintance….you will notice that you FEEL much better.

  62. Ghosting happens on TRM, just like in other spheres. Some people ghost me because I occasionally do my Pepe Lepew impression, which is fine. If someone is allergic to wisdom and truth, they are better off scrolling down past my posts.

    I read comments unless the commenter is very obtuse–even if the person is obnoxious or pugnacious. No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    I won’t engage people if they are too obnoxious or if they are bitches of someone else even if I read their posts. I expect that others do the same with my posts.

  63. IAS

    “@Sentient: I’m pretty certain I can control myself.”

    Yeah lot’s of guys are, and then you’re wrapped up in a hot 22YO and she’s rubbing your crotch and moaning… Just saying – game works. It works a lot better than many will believe.

    “YaReally’s and La Ruina’s point was that by gaming properly you can get to know people as their best friends do or even better.”

    Well sure, BUT you need to do without any attraction forming. Because attraction + Comfort/Rapport leads to sex. So everything you’re doing to build attraction, you’ll need to tone down. Especially kino, cutting space, lasering and compliance tests… because game works.

    “So in theory if I know to do that and don’t escalate into sex, presumably I just get Friend zoned” (or Gay zoned, or Married zoned if that actually exists for women) and would have a genuine friend. Right?”

    Well you start off as an orbiter/FZ unless you have built attraction. So again, throw away the attraction stuff if just want a girl buddy… LOL

    unless you really don’t want a buddy. What do your balls say to this?

    And remember, the Law of Unintended Consequences, i.e. you run some “proper game” on a girl and she wants the D, then you give her massive devalidation… “Uh I can’t” etc. That shit is more likely to get your ass raped than cool her off. LOL!!!

    But it’s cool. Go try it, report back. Maybe it will work. At least your rationalization are ready… just in case “it just happens”…

  64. “So in theory if I know to do that and don’t escalate into sex, presumably I just get Friend zoned (or Gay zoned, or Married zoned if that actually exists for women) and would have a genuine friend. Right?”


  65. AJ

    “running the MAP” uh oh another AK purple piller… How long you been running?

    Doesn’t sound like you ever issued any ultimatum, that WAS a core part of the Male Action Plan… it’s gone now right in the Mindful Attraction Plan.

    Up your alpha you are likely no where near where she needs it. She’s a 6 in your eyes but a 10 in her own.

  66. Wild Person
    OK – I’m not really getting this.

    Ok, that’s good. I didn’t get it for a long time, but until I admitted to myself I’m really not getting this, whut? I couldn’t make any progress.

    Redpill knowledge about women, put concisely, is that women are more self-serving than they show themselves to be and are therefore more machiavellian than they show themselves to be

    Yeah, no. It can look that way at first, and that leads to the anger phase for most men, but no.

    Women are as a rule not consciously self serving, and certainly not Machiavellian. Some are, most are not. It is unconscious self serving that goes on. The other month I was in a mostly empty restaurant trying out the new menu. The woman bartender was working on something, cutting up stuff for a drink, and she was picking little bits of fruit or whatever it was out and eating them. It wasn’t conscious, I’m sure, it was more like “ho, hum, work, oooh, yummy, eat…ho, hum, work”.

    Was she self-serving by cheating her employer out of tiny bits of supply, or was she just part of the overhead; nibbling on num-nums is to be expected?

  67. Rollo
    What they don’t tell you to do is how to cut out the unhappy and unlucky persons in your life who also happen to be your oldest friends or closest family members.

    This is especially going to burn for those married Christian men who cannot, for theological reasons, just “next” their wife. So far as I can tell, the solution for them is a frame of prestressed, reinforced concrete and constant, never interrupted, Game. Every shit test must be beaten. Any Bible quote that reinforces the proper complementary relationship must be rolled out whenever appropriate.

    The other alternative would be some form of separation, I guess, if she’s the primary stressor in his life he has a right to protect himeslf from that.

    In my case I’ve confined my “Hey, lookat dis!” enthusiasm almost entirely on line. A few truths dropped into a few places; once got a TradCon’s attention by asking him “When was the last time you said ‘no’ to a woman?” and he thought, and thought, and came up with nothing. Nada.

    There are men who are totally p-whipped that I used to hang around with, but now I find the whole “WELP, ah’ll go huntin’ with yuh but gotta check with THE BOSS first, nyuck, nyuck” atmosphere to be just ugly. Yeah, ghosting from that is a lot like soft Nexting yourself.

  68. Age doesn’t matter. It is the circumstances of your life. I was 100% blue pill until my ex asked for a divorce. I was 55 at the time.

  69. @Sentient @YaReally wife recently asked what I wanted for my birthday. I told her absolutely nothing (considering all that “until death do us part, oh expect for that if not for the kids, I’d leave your ass” thing). Any other ideas? I thought of saying blowjob, but “absolutely nothing” felt better at the time.

  70. @ newlyaloof

    What do you want? Translate “a bj” into language that she can accept. Something that resonates with her. “You know how you like pistachio ice cream? That’s how I feel about sex. Vanilla is Ok, but I also like pistachio. A bj is my pistachio ice cream.”

  71. Pinelero
    …ghosting does happen within the marriage by denial of time or attention for shitty behavior.

    Also a way to reset after loss of frame, as an alternative to butthurt, I would assume.

  72. I’ve got to ghost him now. Not because I’m an asshole or I’ve given up, but because it’s just not pragmatic to apply that effort when others would benefit more from it. He’s past that age Morpheus says the mind should never be freed and I’ve got to be OK with that.

    also, these people you try to “help” then try to expose you as an asshole, cheating, arrogant douchebag

    [here, allow me to fix your HTML for you]

  73. @ newlyaloof

    That’s really not negotiating, but giving her plausible deniability. You could tell her that a woman giving a man a bj is a sign of her love for him and that her withholding it is a sign of her lack of love, which is fine since it’s good to get the cards on the table even if you decide not to play at that table. You can use this route as long as you’re not invested in her giving you a bj. ZFG and reduce your attention until she invests in a bj.

  74. Newlyaloof

    “you’ve given me a lot to think about” and wander off… and out.

    always a good one. But you will still need to figure out for yourself what you want out of life. It’s not easy. You get to bring your wife as far as she can go, but it still may never be enough for you now. So you go do you for a bit.

  75. @Sentient: you know more about this than I do. I’m far more concerned about me getting One-itis for some girl than having girls develop one-itis for me.

    I know what you mean because after learning some Red Pill I tried a bit of eye contact and kino and (think I) had it a bit reciprocated a few months back and when I got to bed (by myself as intended) I couldn’t manage to sleep for a while.

    In any case, Juggler method seems like good knowledge to have. I’ll try not to be a kid playing with dynamite.

  76. IAS

    “I’ll try not to be a kid playing with dynamite.”

    Nothing wrong with playing with dynamite, as long as it only goes BOOM when you want it to. Have fun!

  77. Ghosting isn’t that hard with most people we have relationships with. Studies & etc. show we turn over around 90% of our friends every five years. If you’re having trouble doing it, move on to doing something more productive whether it’s at work, at play, or wherever. I’ve always ghosted as a preferred method of moving on from whatever. No ceremony, no glad handing goodbyes, I just pack my shit and leave when it’s time to go. If you miss me, well, sorry, see ya around. If you don’t miss me, no worries, trust me it’s mutual. I make an effort to hang onto good friends though.

    There’s something like a red pill truth about friends – I’m talking about being good friends with other men here – that seems evident. I’ve held on to a few friends despite really having had four completely different lives as an adult. The few friends I’ve hung onto over many years are productive men in their own right, with their own agendas, who haven’t been a drag on me. There’s no agony aunts in the bunch, we don’t get together for a good bitch session, but we can talk about shit and empathize and help each other out sometimes.

    How do you get good friends? Well, it starts by ignoring the chaff in your current and recent past circles for sure. They aren’t worth your time. You probably also need to make your friendship worth something, not monetarily but in how you contribute to lifting up your friends and moving them in productive directions. You don’t have to bribe people into friendship but instead make it worthwhile for your friends to be your friend, try to be the most solid guy in the group from a leadership and gettin’ shit done perspective. You don’t have to AMOG all the time, you’re not trying to pick up chicks when you’re building a support network, but you ought to focus on driving the bus in a way that encourages your buddies to get on. Have your goals, right, but be the guy who suggests that the big annual mountain bike trip this year goes to Moab instead of Local State Park, then make it happen. (You don’t have to wait for somebody to suggest it then you put the trip together – that’s Delta behavior there, worthy, but not your aim). When one of the guys loses his dad, get your mutual friends together to drag the guy out for beers or to a game, no sobbing shit but picking a brother up and just reaching out. I’ve been on the receiving end of that treatment and you don’t realize that it’s some powerful leader shit right there, and it inspired some deep admiration on my part.

    RP awareness makes me realize that some of this is figuring out how to act like a traditional Alpha and shouldering the kind of work it takes to make your relationships and the groups you are part of work well. You have to be discerning as well; ghost or figure out how to drop the dullards, and identify the men who are strong and moving forward and make friends with them. The shit about Alphas never being friends with other Alphas is just that, shit. If you’re competing for the same woman or same job there’s some truth to it but chicks are only part of your life, and entertaining and for some an essential diversion, the main show is you and what you do with yourself, and it helps to have a supportive crew around you to keep you moving in the right direction, onward & upwards.

  78. I don’t try to unplug guys. It’s hard because even right this moment, I know guys that are being put through the wringer and they are suffering something fierce, but I cannot help them at all. Not yet. Maybe not ever.

    There is a great risk in trying to help a suffering man by unplugging him. He will interpret the added pain and disillusionment as being ” your fault ” for fucking up his head.

    Plus, just the act of unplugging a guy requires a measure of patience that I do not possess. It’s easier for me to build an engine than convince guys about TRP.

  79. @Newly – Tell her you want her to find you a woman who doesn’t think fucking you is a chore. Tell her it’s for both of you since you don’t want to fuck someone who doesn’t want to fuck you, but you want to do some good fucking, and that since she doesn’t want to fuck you, she should be relieved.

    Close with, “Or I might have to find someone who does without your help.”

  80. It’s not possible to teach someone who isn’t ready to learn. Nor is it ethical to unplug someone who’s happy. Some are quite happy in their misery.

    Success is not as important as having made the effort to try. If you have made the effort, that is all you can do. When they are ready to turn their trauma into wisdom, they will find their teacher.

    It may be you; it may be not. Change will eventually be instantaneous: when the one hundredth penny makes a dollar. Don’t try to argue. Don’t try to persuade. Be the change.

    It takes time for the truth to become apparent, but it always does. It can be agonizing to wait, but it is amazing what can happen in a year. And for those who never hear: they were never going to.

  81. @Rollo
    Stefan Molyneux (or his wife I think?) got raped by everyone for recommending “de-fooing”, but from what I gathered skimming the dialogue it looked like de-fooing is just cutting out negative value/energy-leeching people who don’t support (or actively sabotage) your attempts to better yourself and achieve your goals fixing your life, which I personally (and PUA teaching in general) fully support.

    Any opinion on it? Genuinely just curious because this reminded me of the Molyneux incident and I was just like “wtf does everyone have a problem with this concept for??” But I think the idea of “cut out people who don’t support your goals” is fucking terrifying to the blue pill world that promotes taking value over giving value…like “wait, you’re telling people we’re leeching from to ditch us?? BLASPHEMY!!”

  82. @djreddyfox – I didn’t take the Red Pill until I was 50. Yes, it’s been incredibly painful but I say to any man that is actually still a man that it’s never too late. As long as you can raise your middle finger to the world that hates you, and wants you to hate yourself and needs you to repress your own masculinity, you have a shot.

    Don’t confuse “won’t” with “can’t”. Sure it’s hard, boo fucking hoo. And yes, it’s tempting to just shuffle off into nothingness, complying with a society that gives fuck-all about your humanity. Sure, that’s common.

    There are two questions to ask yourself, and I’ll give you the answers too:

    1. Do you want more out of this life? If yes, then answer question two.

    2. What are you willing to do? Correct answer: Whatever it takes.

    If you’ve arrived at middle age as a man and haven’t figured out how to be stoic about life, well, you are very likely a sad excuse for a man and enjoy being a pussy. Many men are thus and those are the ones who men like me and many other’s here will ghost.

    I bet Rollo is being a bit too nice here about why he ghosts some men, like the 48yo mini celebrity drowning in self-pity. You see, I have a number of male friends with no interest in the Red Pill but they are real men. They don’t whine, don’t make excuses for themselves and deal with the world as they see it. They are optimists and don’t drag me down – even if overwhelmed temporarily or set back greatly. I’ve shared the Red Pill with them and they have looked and moved on. It’s not for them, fair enough.

    Who do I ghost? Pussies. People who like to blame their issues on the world instead of taking their life by the reins and making something of it.

    You see, I can’t respect such men. And I bet that’s what Rollo is really saying at some inchoate level. Try to imagine it – Rollo fucking Tomassi is your friend. You have just been fucked over by a woman, again and he comes to your aid, laying out the truth and possibility of life and this world, and you just reject it. Are you kidding me? It’s like getting a chance to wing with YaReally and saying, nah, I can’t be bothered, I’d rather sit around and complain about not being able to get laid.

    If one needs to protect his ego more than he needs to fight for his life and dignity, how can you respect that? Now don’t get me wrong – you may have to come kicking and screaming. You may be angry and deeply conflicted. You will not accept what is being said on the whole at first. All are fine – all that is asked is to take the first step and to be willing to learn.

    And while habits have more power as we get older, we also should be wiser as we get older. There is nothing more pathetic than an old fool, as you know such a person has had to actively work to avoid accumulating wisdom.

  83. Top post, touched a nerve with me.

    Fuck, did I ever learn this lesson the hard way, you can’t save anyone.

    Tried to save a local kid that hooked up with Albanian drug dealers (they used him as a stooge to house sit weed crops and they rolled him over hard).

    My reward? Fucker stabbed me in the knee multiple times with a pocket knife.

    The one lesson I gleaned from the Bible is that if you try to save ungrateful pieces of shit you end up dead. Half the book is about prophets lamenting about ungrateful assholes, just look at Isaiah, sawn in half. Three thousand years later and asshole Rabbis say he had it coming.

    My biggest problem is getting rid of the saviour complex with women, that blue pill shit was drilled hard into me by the old lady.

    My brother bought a house with his girlfriend, I bought the paint supplies and did the painting. I gifted them 3k to help move in, my only request was that his ungrateful girlfriend bake me a cake.

    You reckon I got the cake?

    I’m ready to give them a 300k interest free loan so that they don’t have to pay interest on their housing loan and knock off the principle and I can’t even get a fucking cake.

    I gotta go to the incinerator and burn my superman cape….

  84. @scribblerg
    “It’s like getting a chance to wing with YaReally and saying, nah, I can’t be bothered, I’d rather sit around and complain about not being able to get laid.”

    Former buddies/roommates have done EXACTLY that, believe it or not. For years on end. You can lead a horse to water etc etc lol

    The first thing we ALL do when we discover PUA is go “OMG I WANT TO SHARE THIS WITH ALL MY BUDDIES WHO WOULDN’T WANT TO GET LAID MORE???” but the reality is guys don’t want to hear it or won’t take it seriously enough to benefit from it until they’ve hit rock bottom and will do ANYTHING to get out of their current situation. As long as they still have hope they will only ever half-ass it and give up or ignore it or aggressively resist and push the information away.

    @Sentient @IAS
    Sentient is dropping some truth-bombs on you IAS lol That said I can’t give a guy too much shit for wanting to engage everyone around him (girls, guys, ugly, attractive, young, old, etc) on a deeper level…there’s a lot of benefit to being able to do things like make the old guy sitting alone beside you on wing night at the local pub feel like someone’s actually listening to him when he talks about his broken marriage and kids who don’t talk to him anymore.

    But if you want to avoid oneitis and cheating, maybe avoid doing it with hot girls lol Unless you secretly want an excuse to cheat which is what Sentient is kind of implying (and I don’t necessarily disagree but I don’t know IAS enough to say either way lol but I’ve known a lot of guys trapped in relationships that don’t want to just end them but also don’t want to take responsibility for actively trying to cheat and just keep putting themselves in situations where they can tell themselves it “just happened” so I get what Sentient is implying). 😉

    “My biggest problem is getting rid of the saviour complex with women”

    Women don’t want to be saved. They crave an emotional rollercoaster of good and bad. That’s why you can fix their lives and they’ll find new ways to sabotage them, that’s why they’ll ignore your sensible advice that would fix things for them, that’s why they’ll marry some nice stable provider dude who’s a good reliable man and then go have an affair with some asshole and purposely try to get caught.

    Once you can fully accept that, you start to view them as the beautiful mess they are and do what you can without sacrificing your own happiness/health/money/time/etc instead of getting wrapped up in saving them.

  85. One popular (and logical) definition of insanity is when the individual repeats the same behavior over and over while expecting different results. Reactions are a consequence of actions that are mostly a priori determined by innate conditions. Remaining “plugged in” is inevitably insane. How much shame and how many beta errands, white knight rescue missions, futile romantic speculations, etc., must the typical modern moron experience before he begins to realize that pussy is pussy; that experiencing women as women is far better than “having relationships” with sex fantasies and feminist demons?

    “Unplugging” is more like climbing out of a pile of fresh dung. As one climbs out, the natural compulsion is of course to remove the dung from oneself and not fall back in it. This is not a “price to pay” and it is not “painful”. It is freedom from the dung. It is a relief from bewilderment and frustration. It is an awakening. It is the natural progression towards a better life.

    Those who really “unplug” have no regrets and make no apologies.

    Otherwise, they are not really unplugging. Explicating ad infinitum proves nothing.

  86. @Sentient

    “”Do you think the Asian guys are having the same success banging them in an hour from online?””

    I don’t think MOST guys are having the same success banging them in an hour from online.

    Part of that is the same reason I didn’t in the past–I just didn’t think it was possible. In the past it never occurred to me that women would be that horny.

    What the Red Pill has done is opened my eyes to that possibility. Then it becomes a situation of following through.

    The one girl who didn’t pan out…at first I was thinking maybe I had done something wrong. I didn’t. She got ASD and shut down. I see her now and have ghosted her. Why be “Friends”? What do I get out of that interaction.

    I am “friends” with a few girls and what I get from them is social proof. Also, they’re nice, they’re fun and there’s no emotional ambition with them.

    I entered the contest with two of them for social proof and just to have a laugh and be part of the event and have fun.

    I’m meeting for drinks with another girl…to bang her. So I bucket girls into what I get from them. If I can’t enjoy their company OR bang them…I don’t need them in my life.

    I think that may confuse some hot girls who are so used to being chased that when I walk away they’re confused, angry, resentful.

    Sometimes I do wonder why hot girls are talking and surrounding themselves with these orbiters and ignoring me. But…this is a throwback to my Blue Pill thinking. Girls WANT orbiters and the guys who are putting themselves in that position “hoping” something will happen are betas.

    I do have female friends who are girls I would never bang but as I say above …they’re fun, they are great for social proof. I also have a little rotation of girls I bang. Again, this is something I never thought possible in my Blue Pill days.

    Sometimes I’m greedy and I want EVERY woman I meet—not possible.

    But part of my game is recognizing the possibilities and bailing on those who aren’t interested.

  87. YaReally, Sentient, HABD, wala, Scray, Scribblerg, Forge, quixotic et al

    Oh and mini-FR from this afternoon – was in a coffee shop. Scorching hot blonde HB8 sitting there alone. Like no man could walk into that place and not feel her sexual aura. Early 20s, blonde hair green eyes, slim body, great tits, dressed all in black – skintight jeans, boots, tight t-shirt and leather jacket, pretty features. Possibly an 8.5. If she’d had slightly prettier features would have been a HB9.

    I got my coffee and sat on the couch next to her – I noticed her of course but I had just had a tricky phone conversation and my mind was on something else and I hadn’t even thought about opening her. About a minute later, she got up to go past me to the counter and deliberately stopped right in front of me, made solid eye contact and gave me a BIG nothing subtle about it at all. It’s hard to describe the sheer sexual charge of that moment..just how electric it was.

    I couldn’t think of anything quickly enough and she moved on a beat later. Then she came back from the counter (without ordering anything) and by then I’d recovered enough to tease her about being unsuccessful in buying coffee and she engaged immediately with rock-solid EC and a smile, saying something about how she wanted a healthy snack and they didn’t have any there.

    I gotta say I just got a touch flustered then by just how hot she was and made some weak joke about how maybe she should try the beer in the bar next door instead because my mind went blank. Then the conversation fizzled out and another minute later she got up and left the coffee shop, presumably in search of her healthy snack – but not before stopping AGAIN in front of me, giving me EC and a smile again and saying goodbye.

    Hugely frustrating in letting that opportunity slip through me. She was just scorching and had this very pleasant feminine energy too (like not stuck up at all). I need to practice, practice, practice these interactions.

    On the plus side, like HABD and Sentient keep telling me, it’s another reference experience for me that even *really* high-SMV women (who are not sugar babies lol) find me attractive and are giving me free IOIs. And my subcomms have clearly matured to the point where I’m getting that. And believe me guys when I say I really am pretty average looking and hadn’t even shaved today at the coffee shop.

    I just need to get my head to fully internalise and accept that and focus on escalating. I have no problems saying ridiculous sexual stuff (although in this case the conversation didn’t go long enough) but closing is a real issue.

    Come to think of it..even last night at the diner where I ate while stewing over being ditched for two dates – there was a HB 7.5-8 late 20s blonde having dinner with her HB6 friend and the HB7.5-8 made clear eye contact with me 2-3 times..they weren’t even in the same side of the diner as me, and she was facing the wrong way to see me easily (she’d need to turn her head sharply).

    And there’s probably more I’m missing too..

  88. OT but I think I finally get why always Gaming makes sense from the perspective of outcome independence. If you’re always doing it, it’s not a specific mode so there’s no additional effort sunk in to entering that mode. The feeling of exerting yourself to be in that mode naturally creates a feeling that you expended something and got nothing. A loss. If it’s a mode you’re always in, it doesn’t feel like you expended anything extra or lost anything.

    ABG. Always Be Gaming.

  89. @Sentient @Scribb It could go like this:

    Wife: What do you want for your birthday?
    Me: Well, the ex offered her pussy for me to cum in, so let’s use that as a baseline.

  90. @Culum
    That’s why PUA originally used a lot of routine game…because in those moments where you’re frozen up, if you’ve been sarging a lot your brain will be like “say who lies more! now tease with nose wiggles when you laugh! Now transition into cold reading that she’s trouble! Now tell DHV story about coffee shop waitress flirting with you last time you were here! Now seed extraction to bar across street! Now spike BT with nose wiggles callback humor! Now lead across street to insta-date” etc etc

    and at some point in that barrage of autopilot shit your brain will catch up and be like “ok, I’m over the initial shock of this situation and she’s reacting well to these routines so I feel more comfortable and NOW I can improvise and wing the rest of this sarge”…sometimes you catch up and can get comfortable right after the autopilot default opener, sometimes you run half the sarge on autopilot in panic mode before your brain chills the fuck out, but either way there was legitimate benefit to routine-based game.

    The alternative, which is what people tend to push now, is to just be sarging SO much and sarging sober and sarging in all sorts of different environments that a daytime approach like that is “normalized” to you and doesn’t make your brain freeze up. And that tends to give you better improv skills and a better flow in set in general (VS a shaky/robotic start before you flow) but can be a bigger time investment.

    But it’s kind of a “which route do you resonate with better, which route do you find more fun, what results do you want exactly, how much time/energy do you have to dedicate to sarging, do you even HAVE daytime environments where you can get used to opening girls in the daytime, etc” thing…there’s merits to both approaches.

    Or combine the two, get used to opening regularly AND take note of some of your routines/stories that you come up with that entertain you and get a good response and reword and tweak them (like learning to tell a story in a captivating way) and have some personalized routines to default to when your brain shuts down.

    But like, this could have been you at 38:14:

    You had the opportunity right there in front of you. The difference between you and Max is just time spent infield and Max has some default routines/topics/etc he uses in these spontaneous “woah look at that hot girl!!” situations incase his brain freezes up…listen to Max’s voice at the start, he’s on autopilot kind of awkward/stilted until his brain catches up and he loosens up. Often the first impression doesn’t need to be perfect, as long as you keep talking and get into a good flow she’ll forget those first few awkward minutes because girls live in the moment and base their opinion on their feelings in the moment.

    Julien in his SHIFT infield (“picking up a stripper in the daytime” video) talks at the start about how he’s feeling awkward and nervous/stifled and just keeps talking until he starts to hit a good state and things flow better and the girl goes home with him even though he had a rocky start with like 90% of his stuff not hitting and being uncalibrated.

    What would you do differently to fuck her (not just to talk to her or get a number, but how would you get her back to your apartment to FUCK her) if you could go back to that moment? What would be your general gameplan?

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