I apologize for interrupting the flow of this series’ posts, but I felt this question from reader Andy deserved a full stop:
I could care less who I’m talking to. IMO if you’re looking to disqualify a woman based on her sexual history you’re doing yourself a disservice because you better believe that the high quality chicks have been fucked in every way imaginable. If not you it’s somebody else… Might as well be you!
Have a look at this guy’s story in Saving the Best:
“I married a slut who fucks like a prude.”
Andy, I do agree with you in part. Too much overt concern (i.e. asking) about a woman’s sexual past is indeed demonstrating lower value. Men whom women consider Alpha, the men that women already have a mental impression of, don’t overly concern themselves with women’s sexual pasts because those men have multiple options going.
On some level of consciousness women know that if what he can glean from interacting with her about her sexual past is off-putting to an Alpha he’ll simply eject and move on to a better prospect. An Alpha mindset is often very minimalist, blunt and direct, but there are aspects of interacting with women that come as a default for a man who is his own Mental Point of Origin. One of those unspoken aspects is a self-understanding that he has options (or can generate more) and this is manifested in his indifference to a woman’s long term sexual suitability. If she doesn’t enter his Frame, to his satisfaction, he moves on to the next prospect with very little communication.
However, we weren’t discussing non-exclusive dating/fucking; we’re discussing making an investment in a woman we’re vetting for our own parental investment. When you consider the all-downside risks a man must wager on that investment it behooves him to be his most particular about that woman’s sexual past and the consequences that YOU will be burdened with if you don’t vet wisely.
Most men (myself included at the time) have very sparse prerequisites when it comes to their considering a woman for marriage or even an LTR. This lack of insight is the result of a constant battery of shame and preconditioning by the Feminine Imperative that tells men any requisites they would have of a woman for marriage are ‘passing judgement’ on her character. He should consider himself “lucky” that any woman would have him for a husband (or “put up with him”) and his concerns about her are shameful, typically male character flaws on his part.
Consequentially men rarely permit themselves the luxury of putting their own considerations above that of a potential mate.
Vetting
If you asked a woman whether she would be wary of marrying a man who was a recovering alcoholic or a cleaned up heroin addict she’d probably disqualify him as a marriage prospect from the outset. And were she to go ahead and marry him anyway with full disclosure of his past addictions, would we be sympathetic with her if he were to relapse and she to bear the brunt of his past indiscretions?
Now suppose that woman married this former addict, but due to his being offended about her prying into his past, she was ignorant of his old addictions. She has her suspicions, but society tells her it’s not her purview to hold him accountable for anything that happened in his past.
He’s moved on and so should she, right? Any lingering consequences from his addictions (such as a DUI, criminal record or his unemployability) shouldn’t be held against him, nor should she judge him, nor should she consider those consequences whatsoever when she’s assessing his suitability for marriage now.
In fact, she should feel ashamed to even consider his past with regard to her feelings about who he is. Her judgementalism only points to her own character flaws.
Now, would we praise that woman for “following her heart” and marrying him? Would we hold her accountable for the decision to marry him if he relapses?
Reverse the genders and this scenario is precisely why women become so hostile when men even hint at ‘judging’ women’s past sexual decisions. There is a very well established operative social convention that the sisterhood will all unanimously get behind; and that is the ruthless shaming of men who would ask any questions about any woman’s sexual past. This is the degree of desperation that women feel during the Epiphany Phase when they acknowledge men becoming aware of their long term sexual strategy.
They understand that, in their Epiphany Phase, the clock is ticking down to zero. That’s the cause of a lot of anxiety. They are just beginning to understand that their marriageability (Beta Bucks) now conflicts with their previous short-term mating strategy (Alpha Fucks). As I detailed in Betas in Waiting, women of this age cannot afford to have their short term sexual strategy count against them at a time when they are at their most necessitous of what that Beta can provide towards her long term security.
Again, on some level of consciousness, women understand that were the ignorant Beta she’s decided to marry (start a family with or help her raise her illegitimate children with) becomes aware of what she did in her sexual past he too might expect that same degree of sexual performance. The performance she reserved for the men she perceived as Alpha and freely gave to them.
Women must keep the details of that past secret and obscured. So grave is this anxiety that men must be punished for having the temerity to be curious about it. It is vitally important because a woman’s capacity to bond with a man is reduced with every new sexual partner. Every new sexual partner is a potential Alpha to be widowed by, but the man who marries her must be kept ignorant of those men if she is to secure his resources and his parental investment.
This social convention operates on absolving women’s past indiscretions by redefining them as a period of learning who she would become. It was her “journey of self-discovery” and she’s “not that person” any more. Cleverly enough this is exactly the same convention and same rationale of women who divorce their husbands later in life to “take the journey of self-discovery” of Eat, Prey, Love she passed up when she was younger.
Knowing this, it is also vitally important for men to keep women’s dualistic sexual strategy in mind at every age of her maturity.
Lets not forget the advice of Sheryl Sandberg here:
“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead
Open Hypergamy is triumphantly crowed about when women are at their SMV peaks, and sometimes again once that woman has secured her long-term provider or divorced him, but when a woman is in her Epiphany Phase, when she’s anxious and frustrated in securing her own long term provisioning, that is when she will fall back on the social convention that shames men for their own awareness of the same Open Hypergamy they would otherwise flaunt for him.
So, now that we understand the latent purpose of this social convention, let me explain to every gentleman reading – vetting a woman’s sexual past is not just your prerogative, but an absolute imperative to the health of any future relationship you hope to have with her. When you consider the dire risks you are essentially setting yourself up for – risk no woman will EVER acknowledge or appreciate – the single most important thing you can do is vet that woman’s sexual past.
That doesn’t mean you make weak, DLV, overt inquiries about her past. It means you subtly, covertly and discretely pick up on the many cues and tells she will reveal that past with. Most men would rather use a direct approach to this, and while there’s merit to that, it’s far better to do your vetting by drawing out freely offered information. It’s much more honest and reliable. Once you go the direct route the jig is up and she will play the role she thinks you expect from her, not the honest one you need to make your determinations.
Sex is the glue that holds relationships together. It’s the height of irony that a woman would place so high a priority on her own sexual experiences while in her SMV peak yet completely disqualify that importance when she gets to the phase where it becomes a liability to her. As a man it is vitally important for you to know whether you’ll be her apex Alpha lover or if your burden of performance will be measured against the ghosts of Alpha men from her sexual past – all while you endure the stresses and joys of raising children with her.
@ cave clown “There are alphas and betas. What you suggest would work for an alpha sure, but not for a beta.” Maybe, but I what I suspect is that a system like this would create a new culture and set of values that would develop out of it. We would no longer raise men with blue pill idealism, since we would no longer be saddling their identity with all this moral baggage in which they are expected to provide for and defer to women as a condition for sexual access, So it might be the case that what we… Read more »
@divided,
I still want a better answer of why men want to be loved unconditionally with regards to rejecting promiscuous women.
How can you get the love/fuck. Unconditionally from a promiscuous woman ?
“Sure she wouldn’t bring Bruce Willis in his dirty wifebeater home for Christmas dinner, but she’d LOVE to get railed by him bent over the Nakatomi Plaza roof.”
Lol. Awesome. I think we’d get along irl.
@ YaReally This is the hike and vineyard episode. This happened with one of my social circles–7-10 people. There was lots of convo during the hike with various people. I don’t remember all the details about what was said to whom. Several times I told interesting stories from my life to various people. This was a DHV (demonstration of high value). I also talked with a buddy (who may be a natural ) about a problem I have with a weight lifter at clubs. His diagnosis was that the weight lifter feels threatened by me. My buddy’s diagnosis gave me… Read more »
Funny thing, I wasn’t planning on asking for MILFHB6’s cell no. before the attempted cockblock.
Uhhh… There can only be so many alphas. By definition. That’s actually literally what the word alpha means. It’s first in the greek alphabet for a reason. If I understand you: Beta mom and beta dad raise kid together but fuck other people. (which means you are using the term beta to mean provisioning, which is not correct as alphas can provision just fine) So an open arranged LTR sort of a thing? The chicks would only fuck the alphas. Or anyone that seemed more alpha at the moment, including more alpha than the “lesser alpha” she has at home.… Read more »
@ keyser soze I don’t know if you can get unconditional love from a woman in any instance short of being her son. I think it’s a blue pill unicorn that is designed to keep us competing with each other, inflating the value of women’s attention, and producing economic surplus for them. As for why men want that unconditional love, it’s because we’re the evolutionary experiment and our value is contingent and conditional whereas women’s value is not. The selection pressure is on men, not women, so what men are really desiring when they ask for women’s unconditional love is… Read more »
Divided Line – We have a winner!!!! “I don’t know if you can get unconditional love from a woman in any instance short of being her son. I think it’s a blue pill unicorn that is designed to keep us competing with each other, inflating the value of women’s attention, and producing economic surplus for them.” Women’s love is conditional, period. Son’s are not guaranteed mommy’s unconditional love. I’ve heard enough horror stories to feel comfortable with that idea. Plus, I never felt unconditional love from my mom. If it was there, she kept it well hidden. Luckily there were… Read more »
@ cave clown “Uhhh… There can only be so many alphas. By definition. That’s actually literally what the word alpha means. It’s first in the greek alphabet for a reason.” Yeah, but as it stands, most of the male population is trying to be sexually attractive to women (trying to be the alpha) by being the socially or morally acceptable, emotionally available, personally responsible, respectful provider-dad-in-waiting and this is because they’re deluded about what women actually want sexually. They aren’t even actually competing to appeal to what women find sexually attractive, which is at least part of the reason that… Read more »
kfg has my vote. Predictably.
http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/10/the-vetting-process/comment-page-3/#comment-122459
Also, anyone dealing with a borderline chick should really read a bunch of therawness.com
Long? Yes. Perfect? No. Suck it up. You’ll have spent like 6 hours of reading to get this far into the comments.
Hearing this stuff from all sorts of rational perspectives continued to give me perspective back when I was dealing with this shit. It just keeps on coming around, as CaveClown is discovering.
Oh and I forgot to add, the main problem here and what puts men at a disadvantage in marriage is that they have to find the sexual ideal and the beta mom ideal in one person, whereas women, given how family law and marriage works, do not. They can separate men into alphas for sex and betas for provisioning at will because the whole system is designed to facilitate this now. Sure, maybe the loyal, faithful, beta mom who is also your exclusive HB9 slut is out there and you may find her and keep her if you just alpha… Read more »
To Rollo’s original point about not vetting explicitly by asking, while my FR from the weekend shows an abject failure to get laid it does show how easy vetting for sexual history can be. My “asshole” behavior (as evaluated by an entire table of bitchy, drunk, married chicks) was that of looking “arrogant” and silently observing with an amused smirk. The HB8 I was hitting on before my wing got in the way was telling me with socially approved disdain mixed with a bit of wistful reminiscing (and a bit of moisture, I bet) “You are exactly like every asshole… Read more »
Just had an “interesting discussion” with my SO regarding this post after she saw the article on my pc. Apologies for the long post. In essence, she was offended that I read/concur with the article as she sees the content here as misogynistic – despite my attempts at explaining otherwise (she has a general lack of willingness to here a full picture at this moment in time). I found it funny that she seems to think that men/woman are the same (not just equal strictly speaking, literally the same in her words) and that its only old lingering social conventions… Read more »
@keyser “How about a guy dressed in a tailored suit in a party full of nerds. It’s not like a black and white. Suites and well dressed men represents power/dominance.” Exactly, that’s my point. A suit in certain situations represents chodes. In a place like DC where the guys are government beta types, a suit can represent betas, to a girl with hippie type values a suit can represent shitty corporate culture losers…90% of the male workforce in Japan wears a suits but no one thinks these guys are sexy alphas: http://www.financetwitter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Japanese-Culture-Drunken-Sleeping-in-Public-16.jpg A guy in a suit walking into a… Read more »
“A guy in a suit walking into a country bar isn’t getting more attention than the guys dressed like cowboys”
(not to say that it CAN’T happen, but it’s not consistent in any capacity where someone could say “wear a suit to a country bar and all the girls will view you as higher value than the cowboys because a suit is viewed as universally high-value” and ideally we want guys to have consistency by focusing on the right attributes)
not properly vetting can lead to later surprises In 2006: Former Dancing with the Stars contestant Willa Ford knows that her engagement to Dallas Stars hockey player Mike Modano will come as a surprise to many fans, who believed she was having a romance with her professional dance partner Maksim Chmerkovskiy, she tells PEOPLE. “Maks and I were definitely close and we still are, but I kept saying that it’s going to be a shocker to everybody when they find out (I’m engaged to Mike,)” Ford says. “Every week I told people the truth – we were close, we hung… Read more »
Gamer, why would you want a person whom you’ve already described as an “Attention-whoring and validation seeking” married woman with kids at home that are too young to watch themselves as your dancing “wing woman” anyway? Poor choice. This one will bite you in the ass. Pick another.
I like Divided Line’s thought experiment. Some people are already experimenting with it though I wouldn’t by any means use them as a good guideline because a lot of it is like a cuckolded beta being forced into it lol: http://mommasaid.net/linger/parenting-together-apart/ http://raisingchildren.net.au/forum/Topic47691-16-1.aspx Realistically this shit is happening ANYWAY, married chicks are fucking around or not putting out deadbedroom style and betas are getting cuckolded but are trying to be “honorable” and NOT fuck around or are shamed out of it (like the static Andy is getting here, not saying he should chase his dream but just saying when a married… Read more »
Have you ever taken a look into Adam Lyons situation. He was direct with the women that he wanted kids. The primary already had a kid and was bi, and she would occasionally get other women. The second is a Russian photographer.
The primary just had their first son, and the Russian says in a year or two she wishes to get pregnant too. His pLTR has 2 women having kids, and they are looking for a third. They live together and share some large bed together.
@theasdgamer She wants to fuck you, obviously. Your reads on her letting you know she’s home alone during the day etc are all accurate. It’s basically a done deal. Bringing up her husband and going for the number was unwise, it triggers ASD and creates potential drama in her social circles which could come back to bite you in the ass or make her flake. Ya it was ballsy and ya it worked, but it’s not something I’d advise and it’s not something that will consistently work. You lucked out that it didn’t fuck things up, that’s why she got… Read more »
@Divided Line “the main problem here and what puts men at a disadvantage in marriage is that they have to find the sexual ideal and the beta mom ideal in one person, whereas women, given how family law and marriage works, do not. They can separate men into alphas for sex and betas for provisioning at will because the whole system is designed to facilitate this now.” Agree with this completely. And now the media is trying to promote this as acceptable too, so it’s going to get worse not better. Betas are literally signing up to be workhorse cuckolded… Read more »
Thing is, you’ll probably never know a woman’s true N count. For most women, even the “good girls”, it’s probably way higher than you would expect. Women know that a checkered sexual history makes them damaged goods, so they minimize it as much as possible. Even dyed-in-the-wool blue pillers will react with discomfort upon learning they’re #352. If you’re showing signs in investment, she’s only going to adjust that number lower. Even if you’re a low investment one night stand, you’re still not going to know her true number. Through hamster logic, she might decide that blow jobs, one night… Read more »
@Jack October 14th, 2015 at 7:07 am “Just had an “interesting discussion” with my SO” “despite my attempts at explaining otherwise” “impossible for her to accept that she can be perceived negatively by a man” “She won’t see the logic put in front of her ” “I’ve also tried to explain the difference between men just wanting sex etc” Jack, if you are new to red pill awareness and game, welcome to the discussion. I think your snippets of quotes above indicate that you are explicating a wee bit too much. Which is quite a poor tactic. It flies in… Read more »
“I guess that’s possible, but I personally don’t experience this. The boner test has little to do with a woman’s behavioral characteristics or even her personality outside of how sexually available she is.” There have been plenty of women I found attractive until they opened their mouths. personality and individual traits play a large role in my attraction to women. Not the boner test so much since that’s all physical. But I wouldn’t bang a woman just for passing the boner test. She has to have something I find interesting or attractive in addition to a hot body. Otherwise I… Read more »
I’ve gotten to where the Marxist girls are a big turn off for me, but I’m lucky where I live in Texas because they’re rare. I can’t stand them. Any female who subscribes to that “War on women” stuff is repulsive to me. They are strictly a pump & dump. When they start talking it annoys me and I’m out. Adios.
and even THEN I’ll go into it with a full expectation that it may only last for 7-10 years especially if she’s a hot 23yo when we pop out babies. This is kind of where my head is at. Like any LTR, its going to actually end or effectively end. When attraction, sex fade, what’s left? When you’ve had every conversation there is to have what’s next? I don’t want to be that old couple at the diner eating dinner at 4pm and never looking up from my bowl of soup. When you’ve already done everything there is to do,… Read more »
Robert What? kfg
“So I will answer your question with a question: why are you even considering a post menopausal, divorced woman with kids as “relationship material”? I can see perfectly well what’s in it for her, but what the hell is in it for you?”
I’m about your age, and I’m with kfg all the way on this. You see these hungry parasites all over the “dating” sites, still thinking they can vet YOU. haha
Andy,
Be careful about turning your life into a self-fulfilling prophecy that stems from you shooting an arrow casually and drawing a target around where it lands.
“So I will answer your question with a question: why are you even considering a post menopausal, divorced woman with kids as “relationship material”? I can see perfectly well what’s in it for her, but what the hell is in it for you?” Companionship? For older guys the issue with younger childless women is: they want babies. If you want too keep one around, they’ll be looking form the whole package. Older women with older children are past baby rabies, and are far more likely to be good with an LTR that doesn’t come with a ring. FWIW I enjoy… Read more »
Sometimes the vetting information happens without you even needing to do a thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3op5zo/29_year_old_woman_wants_her_fiancee_to_understand/ Try to keep in mind that vetting a woman is generally a losing prospect. Like SJF quoted me in Relational Equity, you’re never going to accurately vet a woman, and certainly not by overt means. However it is incumbent on a man to enter into anything like monogamy with a woman with his eyes wide open. There is a huge double standard that shames men for even being concerned with a woman’s sexual history. The latent purpose of that shame is to keep you ignorant of… Read more »
“The boner test has little to do with a woman’s behavioral characteristics or even her personality outside of how sexually available she is.” * all posts are fictional and for entertainment purposes only * This is why I’m here. My boner/finisher test is crazy and I don’t understand it. I’ve been trying to stretch out and change but there is something getting in the way. I read all ya reallys stuff and just can’t make it work for me. All his shit works. it’s solid gold actually. that’s not my problem. I’m not sure what it is. Last week I… Read more »
Oh look, here’s another one:
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/525666-past-threesome-affecting-marriage-now-3.html
kfg, RobertWhat?
” I don’t spend a lot of time hanging around people my own age. For the most part they’re boring as fuck. Young girls are looking for interesting men. Be interesting and they will become interested.”
Likewise, and wish I’d realized this about the young girls a long time ago. The stuff I do, have done, and is old hat to me now, fascinates them. Most, if not all of the younger guys they know haven’t done much if anything comparable with their lives…yet.
kfg, I wondered why your comments were so on point; now I know.
@fleezer:
* all posts are fictional and for entertainment purposes only *
Just a guess: You are afraid something turns you off and you’ll be standing there without a boner or unable to finish. So you leave before something like that could happen.
I would siggest the best bet when considering a woman for something long term is to ALWAYS escalate sexually first. In other words: make sure she is willing and able to do anything sexual you want well before any talk of exclusivity, I’m not saying fuck on the first date or next. I’m saying it will take time and effort, but monogamy/LTR/marriage isn’t something to decide on a whim. If you want anal and she isn’t giving it up in the early stages when her attraction should be high? You aren’t likely to get it 10 years after saying I… Read more »
“Companionship?” No. Companionship you can fuck. It’s only the fucking part that requires that your companion(s) needs to be a woman, or even human. No woman is not the same thing at all as being alone and, for that matter, being alone is not the same thing as being lonely. “Older women with older children are past baby rabies . . .” Which is a non issue with men and dogs. ” . . . our relationship isn’t just about sex and kids.” The key word is “just.” “It takes time to get to know a person this deeply .… Read more »
@Fleezer: “. . . my reputation would be permanently destroyed . . .”
I destroyed my reputation decades ago. I have been free ever since.
Benfromtexas,
“I’ve been pulling a lot of girls from the grocery store, and going on instant dates at a juice bar right in the same parking lot as the grocery store.”
Glad to hear your grocery store game has picked up…mine’s stalled…details?
My opener is always in 2 forms. Indirect looking in the same section for item & the second is approach as where I can find so & so product usually a unique brand of soup or sun block(the sun is killer where I live and every store sells it). I use the soup or sun block to go into getting her talking. I do a lot playful talk, but the soup and sun block always revolve around me talking about a story of me running and needing sun block and/or I’m on a liquid diet for the soup. After the… Read more »
But Ted! You don’t understand Ted! She promised me anal if I put a ring on it Ted! She promised!
You mean if she wasn’t game for that before marriage, at the height of her attraction for me, she wouldn’t suddenly want it later?!
Lol
Its nice to be in a place where I can laugh at my past beta fuck ups.
She’ll have anal one day, just won’t be with me.
She’s missing out, I’d destroy that ass.
Whatever. Lol
@lh “You are afraid something turns you off” no. I know something turns me off: non-teenagers. i try but i can’t get past it. for every hot chick I could game, I know two hotties that are five to ten years younger. i’ve never been good at settling. “You are afraid” yes. of going after what I really want. that’s beta. caring about reputation is beta. considering consequences is practical, but also beta. must kill the beta. “They live together and share some large bed together.” proof that at least 2 “unicorns” exist. i bet he finds #3. “seek and… Read more »
KFG – IMO companionship and depth does not equal wife goggles. I have close male friends with some unsavory habits. Those habits don’t affect our friendship, but I would be a fool to completely ignore them. Under the right circumstances they may come to affect me, but as long as I’m aware the friendship is solid. No different with a woman. Knowing her deeply means I understand some of her motivations and can perfect using them to my advantage. I’m also a musician, and I know if I want any success at playing an instrument, I need to practices it… Read more »
@kfg
“I destroyed my reputation decades ago. I have been free ever since.”
thanks. it helps to hear that.
i’m probably afraid of true freedom. just like all good slaves.
red pill is a slippery slope. i’m to the point where nothing short of complete emancipation will do.
it’s scary.
Tedd, I am not talking about your comfortable marriage at all, never mind suggesting you dissolve it. What compels you to defend it?
I guess my point is: I would get zero enjoyment out of spinning plates and sarging. I don’t let many people into my life, and I’m not gonna stick my dick in a woman that I can’t see as “my people” no matter how hot she is. Maybe Robert isn’t interested in spinning plates and simply wants a female counterpart. As long as he gets what he wants, I don’t understand the urge to talk him out of it. I have no intentions on ever spinning plates, but I’m not about to tell YaReally he’s a fool for doing it.… Read more »
KFG – brother I’m not defending my marriage. I’m defending the choice men have to per sue one despite the odds. If the man wants a woman, so be it. In get it because in do too. I have no beef with other POVs, butntheremisna tendency in the sphere to pike on guys that want a wife and kids. I’d jurist as soon see them get it under their terms than discourage them.
That really it. I’m not pro-marriage, I’m pro informed male decisions,
Touch screen at lunch. Sorry form the horrible typos…
Saw Adam Lyons’ name come up. No idea how his situ will pan out but like I say guys are trying different ideas out, looking for new solutions to “how do I raise kids with a girl without being legally married and without having to fuck the same aging wrinkling vagina (that may or may not decide to stop putting out down the road) for the rest of my life?” lol I figure in 5-10 years we’ll have a good general set of resources for guys to pull this stuff off if it’s what they want. Tyler has 2 kids… Read more »
A drunk pillow talk at dawn,one of my ONS who was in early 40s, divorced, 3 children, opened up and told me, in the past 3 years(right after her divorce!), she fucked 28 young and old men .
When a woman tells me she fucked 28, in my standard, that number is equal to 200 .why? , because any woman can go down the street and have a 100 guys lined up to fuck her.
Any man can go down the street and game 200 women and get 1 woman to fuck him.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h6UAtYlo7Io
“Of course that means making sure guys know all their options.”
Are you unaware of breast cancer? Do you know anyone who is unaware of breast cancer?
@YaReally and Forge – So much other stuff here and no more time to read but what Ya wrote is just so epic, and on target. A few thoughts – I see exactly the flip from being attracted to the shut down on being a provider/BF. it’s weird. I know enough not to push hard these days, I look for interest and blow on its embers so when the flip happens I see it and it’s game over. I do get to go back to such girls but often get the same thing over and over. – The ones I… Read more »
KFG -“are you unaware of breast cancer? Do you know anyone who is unaware of breast cancer?” Touche’ I thought I was aware of marriage once. I was wrong. I know “about” breast cancer, but not nearly enough to do breast surgery to remove it. If I was a cancer doctor, I would not only know about it, I could also DO something about it. My point: if a man wants a live in woman, he can’t just be “aware” of her. He needs to become an expert of her. Some men don’t see the point of it, some do.… Read more »
“Be careful about turning your life into a self-fulfilling prophecy that stems from you shooting an arrow casually and drawing a target around where it lands.”
@SJF
I find it interesting that you’re judging me. You don’t know anything about my wife. You don’t know anything about our relationship other than it’s satisfactory from a gender relations perspective. You barely know anything about be. Step back for a second and ask yourself why you say that. Does my perspective threaten your view of life? Am I poking a sore spot?
As for fleezer, just listen carefully guys. His woman is a virgin stripper who then moved into his parents house to be 7 hours away from him. Sorry, it’s just absurd. And even if it is true, it’s like a lightning strike. Fyi, I’m a natural and in my prime was told I had model/movie star quality good looks at times. I got my fair share of women who would “do anything” to be with me. A few stalkers even. Every last one of them was psycho to their boots and not worth the drama they would eventually descend into.… Read more »
@Andy – If one person in a room calls you an asshole, it may be them. Consider how many people here have had to sort you out. Consider that it might just be you.
I know, this is impossible for you. NPD isn’t just a female disorder.
” I mean, guys, am I the only person who listens to this stuff and just shakes his head?”
Nope. I do it all then time. But if it works for them, who am I to judge? Only thing I know is it wouldn’t work for me.
benfromtexas,
That’s great stuff w/ the grocery store. (I don’t run either, but look like I could.) I thought I remembered you were the guy trying to game the cashiers, but I may be mistaken. I’ve not built up the confidence to do the approach much with the shoppers, but will soon because my young hottie store employees keep quitting their jobs and disappearing. Thanks
Just remember going in empty handed. You are there for one item. The staff could also help you find stuff. I’ve hit on women stocking stuff on shelves by having them show me where something is.
“If one person in a room calls you an asshole, it may be them. Consider how many people here have had to sort you out. ”
I know I’m an asshole. I’ll work on it. I hope nobody is actually taking offense to anything I say. I just want you to prove me wrong. Lofty rhetoric isn’t going to change my mind.
Aren’t you the same guy that was bragging about how you were alpha enough to find out who you truly were. I don’t see how what I’m saying is any different. Life is short.
Every “breast cancer awareness” campaign is, prima facie, a lie. Therefore, there is a hidden agenda that is being pushed, yet few men ever see the lie and simply accept the whole thing at face value. “If I was a cancer doctor, I would not only know about it, I could also DO something about it.” That is also, by and large, a lie. I posted a video a while ago made by a cellular biologist. He started out as an MD, but his father died of cancer and he realized that what the doctors “did” was a lie, so… Read more »
Hi Rollo, this might be slightly unrelated but a Blue Pill friend of mine who knows I’m Red Pill has triumphantly pointed me to this Guardian Article on Neil Strauss. he’s been happily using this article as justification of how his Blue Pill life I. e. game is wrong…game is bad etc http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/10/neil-strauss-the-game-book-truth I was wondering if you’d be able to comment on the article. it seems like Strauss is reaffirming the Blue Pill paradigm and female imperatives….I. e. acting Alpha and being polygamous/spinning plates is a sign of social deviance or a mental disease. i read the Game a… Read more »
KFG – as I said I’m no doctor. It wouldnt surprise me to find out much of what they do is pointless to dangerous. That’s beside the point. If a man wants to climb Everest, is he better served at reaching his goal by folks trying to talk him out of it, or hearing advice from other climbers? Its perfectly reasonable for a man to decide he wants a wife and kids despite the odds stacked against him. Just as its perfectly reasonable for me as a 45 year old man to decide one woman is a better option for… Read more »
I’m floored by now much combined knowledge is floating around in this comment section. Thanks to everyone bothering to comment for the benefit of us all.
Andy, I assume you are here for answers. Including more perceptive red pill awareness (how intersexual dynamics really work) and to have more proficient game. I’ve studied a bit of that and have had a profound run up the learning curve and have real power derived from it in my own circumstances. Many a man has improved themselves and developed better control over their own circumstances and the ability to control the directions of their life by reading TRM and commenting here. I am an idealist and I am extremely judgmental. I know who I am and where I am… Read more »
“Your callous indifference to comments such as mine, ScribblerG’s and Ian Ironwood’s indicates your rookie, greenhorn, fledgling, and abecedarian spot on the learning curve of red pill game.” Sorry, I’ve just seen the “experts” and prevailing wisdom in every field I give a shit about be wrong about almost everything. I’m not going to take anything ANYONE says at face value. Quantum mechanics? fucking joke. The universe isn’t a statistical model. Economics? Pretty much everyone has it wrong. Biology? Turns out DNA can’t predict SHIT for heritability. Gender relations? This doesn’t even come close to being as established as those… Read more »
@Tookwan lol Neil is just gaming the mainstream crowd. Selling out the community so he can sell his next book on relationships that’ll be perfect feel-good confirmation for BP people like this: “he’s been happily using this article as justification of how his Blue Pill life I. e. game is wrong…game is bad etc” That’s literally what Neil’s interview was supposed to do…cause that exact reaction. Your buddy and feminists etc will probably buy the book just to pick out choice quotes to shove in your face lol The fact that people are buying into it just shows how good… Read more »
@Andy
Hahahaha, oh dear lawdy, son. I know the limitations on what I know, but you? You have no clue.
If people who study a particular field so intensively that they know far more than you but can still be wrong, then what does that say about how often you’re going to be wrong? You just showcased your own ignorance with that statement then told puffed out your chest in celebration of it.
Don’t get me wrong I’m all for some arrogance, but that shit just pushed in to being plain old ignorant.
I don’t know if you can get unconditional love from a woman in any instance short of being her son.
Even that only works for a while. Grown sons will be shit tested by mothers. Reality. Deal with it.
@YaReally
Dick move though…shit like that interview and his visit to the “sex addiction” place (because apparently looking at porn and masturbating while you have a partner is “sex addiction”) is why men NEED to find pickup in the first place, ’cause male sexuality is so vilified and has them all fucked up.
Standards have dropped to the point that expecting to get laid more frequently than occasional duty sex with a frumpy, fat, post-Wall wife is “sex addiction” to the mainstream. Never mind the guys who aren’t getting any at all that are chastised for wanting it.
“I’m not going to take anything ANYONE says at face value.” At least you have that besides hubris. And no one is an expert here. (Besides Rollo Tomassi that is.) Some of us are men who are living at their edge, facing their fears and living just beyond them. If we are not your friends, then you don’t have to trust our advice. Or lack of prescriptive advice. A man’s capacity to receive another man’s direct criticism is a measure of his capacity to receive masculine energy. If he doesn’t have a good relationship to masculine energy (e.g., his father),… Read more »
“If people who study a particular field so intensively that they know far more than you but can still be wrong, then what does that say about how often you’re going to be wrong?”
I’m not implying that I’m omnipotent. If I’m making decisions that affect my life, I think I’ll choose my intuition over some avatar on a keyboard. 🙂 I don’t see why that’s laughable. I take everything I read here seriously except for scribbleberg. j/k. All of our experience taken together means something.
“All of our experience taken together means something.”
No shit Sherlock. Welcome to the Manosphere.
@SJF
Okay, so your criticism is I need to take another look at my risk vs. reward? I will heed your advice. Thank you.
You guys should have me on that podcast. I can really rile you up. 😀
My hunch is that if most men understood what women actually find sexually attractive, virtually all of them would at least do better with women than they are presently doing. Except that society (that is, women and their children) doesn’t want this to happen even one bit. In fact, they want the opposite. What does the average woman say about the male companion she wants to have? “Why can’t he just get it?” That say it all. Betas are needed as pack mules, and are thus to live in ignorance. This has always been the unwritten rule in every society.… Read more »
Most men don’t want to understand women better either. They will tell you they do, but their actions say otherwise.
Part blue pill conditioning, part ego investment.
Its not women that are “scary”, it’s the risk to their ego.
In other news, I watched a guy BEG his wife at the store today to allow him to buy chicken nuggets.
I think she was ovulating. Sexy movements, looking at every guy in the place.
It made me sad.
(that the husband didn’t leave long enough for me to talk to her)
“People are supposed to fear the unknown, but ignorance is bliss when knowledge is so damn frightening.”
My takeaway from the Strauss Guardian piece is he’s doing a dodge and a hop. Look closely and he doesn’t disavow “The Game” or Game. He wants to reposition himself as a relationship can-guru. Now he sez Game was where his head was at BACK THEN and he just developed PUA and used it to get HIM where HE needed to be to learn to sarge cuz he was scared of girls who all have cooties or something. “And so say all of us.” Going into rehab for sax addiction (dig that Coltrane, man) is just a tick on the… Read more »
“You guys should have me on that podcast. I can really rile you up.”
Last I heard it was invitation only. Better start validating yourself to Mr. Wukong.
it seems like Strauss is reaffirming the Blue Pill paradigm and female imperatives….I. e. acting Alpha and being polygamous/spinning plates is a sign of social deviance or a mental disease. i read the Game a long time ago and iirc, Strauss didnt elaborate much or focus much on Long Term Relationships, mainly on sarging and game principles. So I guess it isn’t like he has betrayed any Red Pill teachings per se, just that this is yet another example of how feminists and polite Blue Pill society deals with the cognitive dissonance of Red Pill truths? Did you actually think… Read more »
Standards have dropped to the point that expecting to get laid more frequently than occasional duty sex with a frumpy, fat, post-Wall wife is “sex addiction” to the mainstream
“Sex addiction”, just like “porn addiction”, is just that, bullshit propped up by shoddy “evidence” and milked by the mainstream media to push the narrative of male guilt and white male privilege ruining everything. The ultimate goal, of course, is to serve the FI.
This is my book review of Tucker Max’s new book in 3 images:
I could probably do the same for Neil Strauss since they’re both following the same business model.
@ tedd There have been plenty of women I found attractive until they opened their mouths. personality and individual traits play a large role in my attraction to women. http://demisexuality.org/articles/what-is-demisexuality/ Falling in love is way too easy to do if you only have one plate at a time. Always make sure that you have multiple options all the time. Thinking about all of them from time to time will protect you from focusing on one. This helps me keep perspective with respect to Mrs. Gamer. Falling in love leads to oxytocin addiction, which can lead to shyness if there’s not… Read more »
Actually this post pretty much covers Tucker, Neil and a host of other ‘reformed’ PUA-turned-Purple-Pill entrepreneur:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/07/29/the-script/
Mr. Wukong,
Please don’t let the fact that I pwnd you just a few comments ago influence your decision. You can’t afford NOT to have me on the podcast. You could use me as a case study. Maybe ping idea’s off the n00b. You definitely need my sexy deep voice. You guys have some nasally weird voices. Maybe I could announce topics or something. 🙂
@SJF
Pffft, it’s pretty much anybody unless they’re a blatant troll. Hope nobody was under the impression it was invite only. Andy’s welcome to come on if he likes.
Andy, “You guys should have me on that podcast. I can really rile you up. :-D” Andy, “Sorry, I’ve just seen the “experts” and prevailing wisdom in every field I give a shit about be wrong about almost everything. I’m not going to take anything ANYONE says at face value. Quantum mechanics? fucking joke. The universe isn’t a statistical model. Economics? Pretty much everyone has it wrong. Biology? Turns out DNA can’t predict SHIT for heritability. Gender relations? This doesn’t even come close to being as established as those fields. Sorry, but I’m not going to take ANYTHING at face… Read more »
@Andy
Christ, that was what you consider pwnd? You got some low standards for declaring your victory there.
” My hunch is that if most men understood what women actually find sexually attractive, virtually all of them would at least do better with women than they are presently doing.” ” Except that society (that is, women and their children) doesn’t want this to happen even one bit. In fact, they want the opposite. What does the average woman say about the male companion she wants to have? “Why can’t he just get it?” That say it all. Betas are needed as pack mules, and are thus to live in ignorance. This has always been the unwritten rule in… Read more »
Andy is feeling his oats today…..
@ YaReally Mooch O. Grassyass. A few more pieces to the puzzle. I need stories for my book. I want a wingwoman who can accurately debrief other women to provide material for my book.. WW needs to have strong Machiavellian traits. MILFHB6 has strong Machiavellian traits and would be perfect for the WW role. MILFHB6 probably makes 6 figures per annum and would do it just to please me and for the fun of it. MILFHB6 is UMC, SIW, tomboyish hardcore slut (N > 50 is my guess, maybe 10 new cocks per annum, so N could be > 100)… Read more »
“Its perfectly reasonable for a man to decide he wants a wife and kids despite the odds stacked against him.” No, it isn’t. But then I have never advised to never do unreasonable things, only to know what you are doing. If you’re going to race cars, race a good one. What would be the point of increasing your odds of serious injury while at the same time reducing your odds of placing well enough to give a point to whole thing, especially if the evil beast is unpleasant to drive in the first place? “If a man wants to… Read more »
ASD – “Falling in love is way too easy to do if you only have one plate at a time. ” There is nothing at all scary about “falling in love” if you know up front what it may cost you. I still have a level of wife goggles going as its part of the process. The difference this time from the last? Now I know what it is, how it can affect my behavior, and I can mitigate against it. I don’t need plates, I need to know beyond all doubt I can replace her, and be ready to… Read more »
@keyser
I am actually trying to learn. Maybe I get a bit provocative, but it’s only because I actually want to hear people’s opinions. Do I care what any of you think of me? Not even a little bit. This comment thread would have 3 less conversation threads if it wasn’t for me. And I personally think they’re constructive.. I fucking love this shit. Looooove it.
@cave
It made me sad.
(that the husband didn’t leave long enough for me to talk to her)
lol
@rollo
lol’ed hard at that Tucker image <3
Now now YaReally, you know hot a woman is with that beautiful Jay Leno jaw line.
@YaReally, his wife looks like Caitlyn Jenner
KFG – “I have been out on the ridge that Robert is approaching for the first time. It has a well earned reputation for being treacherous, but I have learned the equipment and the routes.” Fair enough. Hell I’m not even suggesting I know about climbing mountains, I’m still working my way up the summit. “You are not even on the same mountain. Why do you keep personalizing the issue? Enjoy your mountain your way with my blessings.” I’m simply sharing a POV, and I generally do that from my own perspective. “Personalizing” certainly isn’t the intention, as I’d never… Read more »
Andy,
“This comment thread would have 3 less conversation threads if it wasn’t for me. ”
I miss Insanitybytes.
It’s kinda difficult: The discussion would surely be better if it were about advancing the topics of interest and not only fights for hierarchies and ego-investments. But on the other hand it is also important we all (re-)connect to our masculine strengths and live them, for which this is also a playground.
[…] (a.k.a. Glenn) had a good reminder for men in the last […]
@scribblerg:
“NPD isn’t just a female disorder.”
NPD is predominantly a male disorder, and, judging by your commentary, 98% of you have it.
Congrats on the fleeting moment of lucidity and decency; even though narcissists calling out psychopaths on their psychopathy is a kind of the pot – kettle deal.
@Doc, shouldn’t you be getting back to your internship?
@benfromtexas @rollo Sheathe those claws kitties, I was just talking about the joke itself lol Maybe his wife has a really low n-count and motherly qualities 😉 https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3og9x8/girl_asks_if_guys_would_look_past_her_60_partners/ In Hypergamous news one of my girls’ slutty Instagram pics got liked by a famous celeb who she replied with gushing over him and he replied with a little flirt back. Girls bail on LTRs and marriages at the first sign of being unhaaaappy thinking they can get AAA celebs because social media has created a world where they literally CAN lol This chick is 25 (and noticeably becoming more negative and… Read more »
Docg,
It ain’t naricissim if it’s true.
” . . . many spherians don’t take that view when it comes to anyone that suggests a LTR can work. You seem to be somewhere in that camp . . .” I am not. ” . . . marriage is still a reasonable choice for a man to make, provided he isn’t going in blind.” It is not reasonable for a man to put everything he has on double zero, even if he knows the odds. For a man over 50 who is financially secure, it is idiotic. No, I did not just contradict what I said above. However,… Read more »
Narcisism is also part of the dark triad.
Last time I took a dark triad test I maxed out the narcissism and machvilian. I was really low on psychopathy though.
So I’m full of myself, manipulative and scheming, but apparently unexciting.
At least I know what to work on.
That’s the spirit.
@theasdgamer : thanks for that link, I didn’t know that was a thing, once again eerily close to home for me. You also mention being “addicted” to a “woman’s face”, which is a familiar feeling to me. Did you happen to notice if
a) that woman had a face similar in some respect with someone else you already knew (and possibly liked)
b) if other women with similar faces (or similar bits of a face) will attract your attention more?
@Andy
“I am actually trying to learn. Maybe I get a bit provocative, but it’s only because I actually want to hear people’s opinions.”
I’m not opposed to you stepping out on your wife.
I’m against seems-like-the-right-thing-to-do-so-I-can-brag-about-it-semi-anonymously-on-the-internet, I-got-some-dynamite-from-red-pill-awareness-and-game-and-I’m-going-to-detonate-it, maybe-it’ll-work-maybe-it-won’t, I-just-need-release-from-constraint, I-think-I-can-get-away-with-it stepping out on your wife.
@YaReally
What’s your close rate in terms of approaches vs F-closes?
Advice on game is useless if the advisor isn’t closing quality women. Quality,in this is defined as SMV >=8s.