I apologize for interrupting the flow of this series’ posts, but I felt this question from reader Andy deserved a full stop:
I could care less who I’m talking to. IMO if you’re looking to disqualify a woman based on her sexual history you’re doing yourself a disservice because you better believe that the high quality chicks have been fucked in every way imaginable. If not you it’s somebody else… Might as well be you!
Have a look at this guy’s story in Saving the Best:
“I married a slut who fucks like a prude.”
Andy, I do agree with you in part. Too much overt concern (i.e. asking) about a woman’s sexual past is indeed demonstrating lower value. Men whom women consider Alpha, the men that women already have a mental impression of, don’t overly concern themselves with women’s sexual pasts because those men have multiple options going.
On some level of consciousness women know that if what he can glean from interacting with her about her sexual past is off-putting to an Alpha he’ll simply eject and move on to a better prospect. An Alpha mindset is often very minimalist, blunt and direct, but there are aspects of interacting with women that come as a default for a man who is his own Mental Point of Origin. One of those unspoken aspects is a self-understanding that he has options (or can generate more) and this is manifested in his indifference to a woman’s long term sexual suitability. If she doesn’t enter his Frame, to his satisfaction, he moves on to the next prospect with very little communication.
However, we weren’t discussing non-exclusive dating/fucking; we’re discussing making an investment in a woman we’re vetting for our own parental investment. When you consider the all-downside risks a man must wager on that investment it behooves him to be his most particular about that woman’s sexual past and the consequences that YOU will be burdened with if you don’t vet wisely.
Most men (myself included at the time) have very sparse prerequisites when it comes to their considering a woman for marriage or even an LTR. This lack of insight is the result of a constant battery of shame and preconditioning by the Feminine Imperative that tells men any requisites they would have of a woman for marriage are ‘passing judgement’ on her character. He should consider himself “lucky” that any woman would have him for a husband (or “put up with him”) and his concerns about her are shameful, typically male character flaws on his part.
Consequentially men rarely permit themselves the luxury of putting their own considerations above that of a potential mate.
Vetting
If you asked a woman whether she would be wary of marrying a man who was a recovering alcoholic or a cleaned up heroin addict she’d probably disqualify him as a marriage prospect from the outset. And were she to go ahead and marry him anyway with full disclosure of his past addictions, would we be sympathetic with her if he were to relapse and she to bear the brunt of his past indiscretions?
Now suppose that woman married this former addict, but due to his being offended about her prying into his past, she was ignorant of his old addictions. She has her suspicions, but society tells her it’s not her purview to hold him accountable for anything that happened in his past.
He’s moved on and so should she, right? Any lingering consequences from his addictions (such as a DUI, criminal record or his unemployability) shouldn’t be held against him, nor should she judge him, nor should she consider those consequences whatsoever when she’s assessing his suitability for marriage now.
In fact, she should feel ashamed to even consider his past with regard to her feelings about who he is. Her judgementalism only points to her own character flaws.
Now, would we praise that woman for “following her heart” and marrying him? Would we hold her accountable for the decision to marry him if he relapses?
Reverse the genders and this scenario is precisely why women become so hostile when men even hint at ‘judging’ women’s past sexual decisions. There is a very well established operative social convention that the sisterhood will all unanimously get behind; and that is the ruthless shaming of men who would ask any questions about any woman’s sexual past. This is the degree of desperation that women feel during the Epiphany Phase when they acknowledge men becoming aware of their long term sexual strategy.
They understand that, in their Epiphany Phase, the clock is ticking down to zero. That’s the cause of a lot of anxiety. They are just beginning to understand that their marriageability (Beta Bucks) now conflicts with their previous short-term mating strategy (Alpha Fucks). As I detailed in Betas in Waiting, women of this age cannot afford to have their short term sexual strategy count against them at a time when they are at their most necessitous of what that Beta can provide towards her long term security.
Again, on some level of consciousness, women understand that were the ignorant Beta she’s decided to marry (start a family with or help her raise her illegitimate children with) becomes aware of what she did in her sexual past he too might expect that same degree of sexual performance. The performance she reserved for the men she perceived as Alpha and freely gave to them.
Women must keep the details of that past secret and obscured. So grave is this anxiety that men must be punished for having the temerity to be curious about it. It is vitally important because a woman’s capacity to bond with a man is reduced with every new sexual partner. Every new sexual partner is a potential Alpha to be widowed by, but the man who marries her must be kept ignorant of those men if she is to secure his resources and his parental investment.
This social convention operates on absolving women’s past indiscretions by redefining them as a period of learning who she would become. It was her “journey of self-discovery” and she’s “not that person” any more. Cleverly enough this is exactly the same convention and same rationale of women who divorce their husbands later in life to “take the journey of self-discovery” of Eat, Prey, Love she passed up when she was younger.
Knowing this, it is also vitally important for men to keep women’s dualistic sexual strategy in mind at every age of her maturity.
Lets not forget the advice of Sheryl Sandberg here:
“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead
Open Hypergamy is triumphantly crowed about when women are at their SMV peaks, and sometimes again once that woman has secured her long-term provider or divorced him, but when a woman is in her Epiphany Phase, when she’s anxious and frustrated in securing her own long term provisioning, that is when she will fall back on the social convention that shames men for their own awareness of the same Open Hypergamy they would otherwise flaunt for him.
So, now that we understand the latent purpose of this social convention, let me explain to every gentleman reading – vetting a woman’s sexual past is not just your prerogative, but an absolute imperative to the health of any future relationship you hope to have with her. When you consider the dire risks you are essentially setting yourself up for – risk no woman will EVER acknowledge or appreciate – the single most important thing you can do is vet that woman’s sexual past.
That doesn’t mean you make weak, DLV, overt inquiries about her past. It means you subtly, covertly and discretely pick up on the many cues and tells she will reveal that past with. Most men would rather use a direct approach to this, and while there’s merit to that, it’s far better to do your vetting by drawing out freely offered information. It’s much more honest and reliable. Once you go the direct route the jig is up and she will play the role she thinks you expect from her, not the honest one you need to make your determinations.
Sex is the glue that holds relationships together. It’s the height of irony that a woman would place so high a priority on her own sexual experiences while in her SMV peak yet completely disqualify that importance when she gets to the phase where it becomes a liability to her. As a man it is vitally important for you to know whether you’ll be her apex Alpha lover or if your burden of performance will be measured against the ghosts of Alpha men from her sexual past – all while you endure the stresses and joys of raising children with her.
Aaaaaand once again I point out here that the unaddressed problem with marriage today is that there are no communities that can be trusted to keep up their end of the contract. There are no unicorn *forests*. Whether you want to admit it or not, your communities and circles keep you in check as males in certain ways. They are also supposed to keep the women around you in check as females in certain ways. Now, however, not only won’t they do that anymore, but they can’t even be trusted not to actively, sometimes even aggressively, encourage girls and women… Read more »
Rollo, appreciate the post you typed up for my comments. I was just asking ‘cuz I’d like to marry some day; I’m 26 now, and I believe that finding ‘virginal’ girls is just impossible now for me. Not that I’m interested in virginal anyways; rather, I’m looking for a girl who won’t proudly announce her past indiscretions as badges of honor. In short, I’m vetting; as a matter of fact, I’ve been vetting most of my life, albeit rather unconsciously (whenever a girl’s said something I don’t like, I won’t leave her alone about it; I guess breaking up should… Read more »
@Rollo: “It is vitally important because a woman’s capacity to bond with a man is reduced with every new sexual partner. Every new sexual partner is a potential Alpha to be widowed by [. . .] As a man it is vitally important for you to know whether you’ll be her apex Alpha lover or if your burden of performance will be measured against the ghosts of Alpha men from her sexual past [. . .].” Could you explain that a bit better Rollo, as I remember reading in one, or more, of yr earlier posts that it’s better for… Read more »
Haven’t read all the comments, but holy fuck is what I have read depressing. I’m watching my N=1 wife “try” to keep me from divorcing her. Which means lots of sex, but no real desire. Not really into me at all. Not trying to please, only trying to not be alone. What did I expect from a girl that told me that she doesn’t care who she is with as long as she is not alone? I am so far from being “her alpha” that she would overtly say that to me. I get plenty of IOI’s from other women,… Read more »
@CaveClown Average isn’t good enough. “Only the mediocre are always at their best.” Jean Giraudoux @ben I view MGTOW as very negative and by doing it a man is waving the white flag. If a man is truly happier after he waves that white flag, is it a negative thing? I really don’t think so. In my mind all self improvement that does not eventually lead to your personal happiness is not an improvement at all. So far approaching is just leading to the same misery it did when I was younger. I’m honestly not enjoying most of what I’m… Read more »
Too each their own.
@Itsasecret You blatantly reveal your disingenuous bs and your actual intent by naming yourself “itsasecret”. Are you trying to hide behind cuteness or do you want men here to really think you have “naughty” “secrets”. Why would any man care? There are far fewer actual “secrets” than pretended “secrets”. Women are masters at playing with men’s imaginations. Each woman hopes men will imagine “secrets” about her because it provides her ego self inflating conditions. These conditions are based on the state of man and female pretense rather than actual history. Wondering why women do not tell the details of “secrets”?… Read more »
“Average isn’t good enough.”
Fuck average:
Asking about a woman’s sexual past doesn’t get you far. At best she’ll be honest and then it’s like a shit-test where you’re then forced to either accept it…or get angry or some reaction…. Look for clues, how does she fuck? Is she super clingy? Does she have any tattoos? Is she evasive when it comes to volunteering her past. Does she constantly refer to “My ex…”? I’ve been in situations where I’ve asked too much or when I’ve found out unsavoury things my guy and my head immediately drive me into conflict. I’m never wrong in my intuition…but when… Read more »
Vetting a woman is crucial for any serious LTR or marriage. A woman’s sexual history does in fact matter. How much it matters to any man is going to be highly individualistic. A few guys will not accept anything other than a virgin as marriage material. That is a personal qualifier. Some men will find any N count over 1 unacceptable. That is unrealistic imo. It’s true that there are Alpha Widows roaming the earth, but to automatically assume that because a woman has had sex with, let’s say 8 guys by age 25, she is hopelessly damaged because some… Read more »
Feminists are all unattractive and some of them are out right Ugly. Almost all HBs 9,10 and 10.5, have, and had no interest in feminism , or sexual Equality. These beautiful women can get any alpha they want, and lock him down. Why is it ugly women have high N count? Why is it super attractive women have low N count? Deep inside every ugly feminists little mind/wide pussy, there is a conviction, the alphas they are fucking, is not going to be with them for the obvious reasons, ((being ugly + can’t compete with HB10s)). 80% of women are… Read more »
80% of men (betas) are content.
80% of women (average) are not content.
When the N is high, it means, she is not content , she is ” ambitious” (one day, you might be one of her N).
And again, women are little girls in a candy store.
@Myreality – Thanks for commenting, it’s revealing. A few thoughts for you; 1. You don’t know your N, lol. That 20 something number, tell us, does that include all the blowjobs? In my experience, women lie about their N. In your case, my guess is your N is easily double what you’ve said here. I bet you have some really wild times too – two guys, girls etc. But don’t get me wrong – I love sluts. They make the world go ’round. I’m a male slut – but you are surely a world class slut. Own it. 2. It’s… Read more »
Most men are content??
Is that true? What, they just accept their lot in life and surrender?
I’ve never been content at anything in my life.
It’s been the first thing counselors and so called “life coaches” tried to change about me. I think I now understand why.
Read this http://www.salon.com/2015/10/12/my_teenage_relationship_with_an_older_man_was_legal_and_consensual_but_was_it_a_mistake/ Just to get an idea of how politicized today’s sexual environment is. Consider she went to Brown, talked to counselors, peers. psychologists and went through whatever sexual indoctrination Brown offers in general to get to this point. She turns an simple, enjoyable, experimental sexual experience into a drama of incomprehensible dimensions. Note how even though she acted freely at every moment, she seems to conclude that she was a victim. Society is intentionally infantalizes women. 200 years ago at age 17? She could have easily been married to a 33 yr old guy and be giving birth… Read more »
@sun
“Any woman is sexual with the right man”
lesbians are sexual with the right man? Sexual abuse victims just require the right man? Asexuals just need the right man?
I have just read @Itsasecrets first post…. “I’m a happily married woman. I had lot’s of sex before marriage with probably something like 30 men. Not sure of the exact number, but I had a great time. Up until I met my husband, none of the important factors lined up to make those relationships viable as long term partnerships. Either the timing was very wrong (pre 24 or so on my end) or the men were not what I wanted in a future husband other than being very sexy. When I met my husband, who I have lots of fabulous… Read more »
@MRSockpuppet; “this and other similar blogs have opened my eyes to is the reality of a woman’s sexual power after a certain age. I had a lot of fun in my late teens and early 20’s as a very attractive woman. I’m not sure I’d enjoy trying that again as an aging woman. Plus, contrary to the idea that a woman who has slept with a lot of men can no longer bond, I feel very bonded to my husband. In fact, I related to Rollo’s story about his early criteria for a wife – someone who he could remain… Read more »
@redlight
” lesbians are sexual with the right man? Sexual abuse victims just require the right man? Asexuals just need the right man?”
Yes.
@SD “Naysayers should note that we won’t hear the times a gaming guy /PUA got assertive with a female and she shut him down with ” no commitment ,no sex. O you don’t do relationships? Kthnxbye “, but I bet it happens a lot more often then we’d think glossing over various comment sections.” This is bullshit, sorry. There’s no need to lie to make your point. We talk about this all the fucking time. And we have routines and strategies to 1) avoid running into it in the first place, and 2) disarm it most of the time if… Read more »
@Caveclown,
Are you 100% sure you can have a HB10?
when a man can’t land a HB9,10, they are content with 7 or 8.
All women, on their death beds, believe they could have landed an alpha.
Ps,
You lose your job and your low N woman stays with you for a year(?).
You lose your job and your high N woman leaves in the morning(at night?).
On the subject of vetting, I figure linking my breakdown of why monogamy is broken and explaining pLTRs is relevant because you can vet all you want but EVERYTHING IN SOCIETY in 2015 is working against even a heavily vetted girl staying attracted to you in a traditional monogamous LTR (ESPECIALLY a legal one) where you’re voluntarily giving up the ability to make her value you (I break it all down in this comment): http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-114069 That said, I’m not anti-relationship, I’m just anti traditional relationship. A guy getting legally married in 2015 is either severely uninformed/misinformed or clinically insane. But… Read more »
Your breakdowns are awesome. That link is good too.
@Blaximus
So the guys who got trapped into marrying lesbians etc. were to blame for not being the right man. The divorce with cash and prizes was their fault? For one friend, the more he made, the more the lesbian ex-wife was taking him back to court for more cash and prizes. Still his fault for not being the right man?
@Blaximus: In reference to redlight….my sentiments exactly!
redlight,
… I thought you said “sexual”. I wasn’t talking marriage.
@Sun Wukong “I’m not saying I’m going MGTOW yet, but it looks more appealing each time the results are an evening I really didn’t enjoy and a blow out. I’m trying different parts of town with different friends and getting the same results.” Link some of your Field Reports in this comment thread and tag my name (I’m busy working these days so I’m just dropping in randomly here and there right now but I’ll come back to this thread) and I’ll look for sticking points and shit you can tweak in them. A BIG part of why I got… Read more »
@Blaximus
‘I thought you said “sexual”. I wasn’t talking marriage’
The original point was, and in the context of the post (vetting for a mother of your kids). The point is if you are marrying a 25+ year old virgin who has lived their whole life in Western society, who knows what’s in the bottom of the cracker jack box
@YaReally I’ve got a good idea of what’s going wrong and what I need to change. Simple fact is I’ve got a couple bad wingmen that I’m ditching and I can’t seem to find a good one. Going solo on night game when you’re starting out is pretty much begging for frustration I’ve found, especially in a sausagefest like DFW. Just gonna make a shot at swapping to day game for now since I can run solo. The AA on it is horrendous, but I couldn’t get much worse in the way of results. TL;DR: Friday I decided to give… Read more »
@Sun Wukong Also I meant to mention: game is supposed to be FUN lol So like, if you aren’t having fun, that’s where it’s like ok let’s look at your FRs and see if we can figure out where shit’s going off the rails because you’ll have a lot more fun if you’re actually getting success. It could be something technical you’re doing wrong, which should be a pretty clear pattern that stands out if you do up a handful of Field Reports over a period of time. Or it could be as simple as changing your mindsets (skip to… Read more »
@scribblerg
Consider the fact that you had a daughter. There is no reason for her not to be any less hypergomous than any other woman. The minute you stopped providing, you became useless to her.
Some of us have sons. I bet we get better mileage out of the deal than you did.
@Sun Wukong “Simple fact is I’ve got a couple bad wingmen that I’m ditching and I can’t seem to find a good one.” Hardest thing in the goddamn world. People think I’m exaggerating when I say a good wingman is worth a thousand women, until they go out and try to find a good one. Most guys are SHIT…even if they have decent game they have a bunch of other baggage/issues or are selfish/vultures/negative etc etc. It is DAMN hard to find a good wing. I’ve had like, 2 in however long I’ve been doing this. I’ve had guys who… Read more »
@YaReally
Not completely totally everything that happened, but enough to get a good idea here.
Wow this blog has gotten good over the years. Sucks that women empathize with one another but give not a shit about men. Why don’t they empathize with men? My only conclusion: they don’t really like us. Love is man’s illusion. I see it daily at the university i go, guys studying alone and women peer bonding in groups of 3 or 4. idk about other guys but a girl must win my trust and show good values in order to win my commitment, and my hope to find such a woman has been completely obliterated. But anyway excellent blog… Read more »
I was not trying to conceal my other avatar – I am having problems logging in with it. The way that wordpress and gravatar work together is confusing. In any case, it seems I have been nastily attacked because I enjoyed something that was available to me and is less available to men (unless they are of a certain type). I get it, you want the rules to be different. You want hypergamy constrained. You think it would be better for society. Maybe it would be. But in your extreme anger over the unfair rules, you want to find fault… Read more »
@Sun Wukong Perfect, that’s what I was looking for. “then decided to get greedy and go after the chick I was working.” This is most guys, unfortunately. It comes from scarcity usually (though with Naturals who get laid a lot it can just be force of habit). Another dynamic that can be going on if your buddy is good-looking or super cocky is they see the girl reacting well to you so they think “well if HE can get her attracted then I must be able to ’cause I’m better than him”. This is why a lot of AMOGs come… Read more »
@Itsasecret “I knew from a very early age that I was a sexual person, and there is no way I’d ever go through a sexless period in my life. Is that evil and bad? My husband doesn’t seem to think so.” Technically speaking: a hot girl turns down hundreds of offers of sex a day. Every guy who interacts with her from the bus driver to her boss at work is hoping to fuck her. In a year if a chick bangs 1 guy every weekend, sure she’s had sex 52 times but she’s also turned down 36,500 offers for… Read more »
P.S. HOW DO I MATH?? 36,448.
@scribblerg – oh, and to address your comment: I think I do “own it.” Do I sound like I have any shame? My number is fairly correct, it’s not intentionally underestimated. I’d have to go back and think about it to fully count. I am not suggesting I am a “special snowflake.” I’m just suggesting that the degree to which a woman is sexual is variable. Not all people like having lots of sex, as you claim. Some people are more into it than others. Penalizing all sexual woman might not be the best strategy if you want to have… Read more »
After reviewing “her” comments, I’m fairly certain Itsasecret/myrealities is another false-flag MGTOW sock puppeting as a woman with exaggerations to sell their point.
Can I just take moment to say that YaReally is the fucking guy. His comments are always gems.
“I view MGTOW as very negative and by doing it a man is waving the white flag.” I don’t think MGTOW is a choice, more of an imposition. That a segment of men is excluded from the sexual market is a necessary and sufficient condition for serial monogamy to exist. The very nature of ‘serial’ monogamy is to ‘share’ higher value men, the implication being that a larger pool of women share a smaller pool of men. If all the women were sharing all the men there wouldn’t be any point to ‘serial’ monogamy, everyone would just find their match.… Read more »
MGTOW’s aren’t excluded from the market. As far as STR or ONS goes a mgtow is still getting his rocks off. He isn’t entertaining marriage or children but that doesn’t mean he will not enjoy railing some some slut that he met at the bar. When a wife / girlfriend / unicorn / special snowflake cheats on her “soulmate” you can bet it will probably be with a guy who his GTOW.
@yareally “But a lot of them spend their time writing bitter posts about how you have to be a good-looking rich CEO model in a suit to get girls to want to fuck you while they bang out 6s and 7s at best (making excuses not to approach the hottest girls in the venue), instead of going out and treating the field as an experiemental lab to push their comfort zones and actually see what happens when you regularly run proper game on smokin hotties you “shouldn’t” be able to get.” Two problems. One is credibility. See, I’ve gone out… Read more »
I remember I used to be insanely jealous of my first boyfriend’s sexual past. That feeling isn’t a factor in my life now as an adult. I think this phenomenon is gender-neutral. No, it isn’t gender-neutral. While women are surely jealous, that feeling of jealousy will actually turn them on up to the point were ASD sets in. Men on the other hand are really turned off by the mere idea of another cock in that pussy – for very good biological reasons: A women who just had a cock in her is almost worthless from a biological perspective, which… Read more »
“I don’t think MGTOW is a choice, more of an imposition.”
While I believe that MGTOW attracting a lot of TFLers to the label is a valid criticism (I have made it myself), MGTOW is not TFL or celibacy.
The natural who has them lining up around the block but won’t commit is the epitome of MGTOW. Being pushed around because you are weak is not philosophical non-violence.
Here is an example of a MGTOW made currently famous by his alpha widow:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denys_Finch_Hatton
@ih – it seems that many, many men are NOT turned off by other cocks in women. The porn industry, with group sex scenes abounding, is a testament to that. You do realize that evolution doesn’t operate on the individual level only, yes? For example, think about altruistic behavior: How am I perpetuating my genes if I sacrifice myself for my tribe? The answer is that my tribe doesn’t die, and therefore all of my other relatives live on having babies. Humans are adaptive and fluid. Many pre-agricultural societies appear to have had lots of communal sex and child rearing,… Read more »
“I’ll get this out before the pitchfork gang shows up. If you live in a rural town where all the hot girls are less then 20% of the population, youll need a Bentley and a $2000 suit to get their attention .” I’m not part of the pitchfork gang, but I will note that I dress like Denys Finch Hatton, ride a bicycle and girls about a quarter my age open me. Decades ago I wore a suit daily and could ask a woman if she wanted to ride in the Mercedes, Alpha Romeo or Maserati tonight, and I note… Read more »
In today’s dailymail – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3269189/Single-woman-meets-future-husband-going-date-EIGHT-MONTHS-pregnant-reveals-little-girl-calls-Daddy.html
Just to be clear I’m not advocating this, and i certainly wouldn’t want it for myself. Pretty shocking actually. But interesting fodder nonetheless.
Also, @lh, interest in sex is VERY hormone dependent (among other factors).
Even things as seemingly extraneous as plastics, estrogen-agents, etc. can influence this.
Of course exposure to testosterone in the womb also plays a role.
It’s silly to suggest that everyone is equally sexually inclined. It’s just not true.
@SD “If I bring a self-described PUA besides myself, it turns out the guy was Full of S–t and was either a total keyboard jockey, or counting notches with 4s and 3s” A lot of guys are shit at throwing a punch, even a lot of boxers are amateur and shitty even if they market themselves as amazing. But the mechanics of how to swing your fist at a target for maximum impact and the principles behind boxing strategy work. “What I see is a YouTube video where a “Game Expert” spends most of his time yacking and very little… Read more »
“Many pre-agricultural societies appear to have had lots of communal sex and child rearing, not worrying too much about whose baby was whose.”
Identify the key word in this sentence.
@lh “While women are surely jealous, that feeling of jealousy will actually turn them on up to the point were ASD sets in.” Ya, even one of Mystery’s points from back in the day was that a girl often won’t fully realize she’s attracted to you until she sees another girl into you and feels that jealousy/fear of loss. And before the ASD kicks in you gotta make them feel more special than the other girls. Like I’ve said before girls don’t really care if you fuck other girls, what they care about is being replaced. Being able to fuck… Read more »
Honestly, growing up it was barely conveyed to me that men might take issue with the sexual choices I made along the way. To the extent that it was conveyed, it was drowned out by a much louder message from the media and to an extent peers that slutty girls are attractive and good. For example, watching TV at night as a middle school girl, I saw lots of commercials for The Man Show. I saw that this was a show for men that featured things men typically like, which clearly included promiscuous girls with few boundaries. So I thought… Read more »
@LeeLee
I guess
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/06/the-slut-paradox/
Thanks for your support and insight, YaReally. It seems this And if she feels like those girls are all legit competition then she’ll start feeling like “just one of your whores” and ASD and drama kick in. Making her feel like a special snowflake helps avoid this. is were I was this weekend. You say making her feel “special snowflake” is ok? I usually avoid it, I want as much attraction as she can bear. Your linked comment earlier is pure gold btw and anyone thinking about “something serious” should read and consider it. http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-114069 That said, I’m not anti-relationship,… Read more »
Oh, and it has nothing to do with “punishing a women for her sexual past” at all. It’s about choosing the most attractive women and dumping the less attractive.
@lh – What men find attractive, I can tell you based on my extensive experience, is feeling like a big deal.
And the women best at making a man feel like a big deal are not virgins but prostitutes.
“I can tell you based on my extensive experience . . .”
And how did you acquire this extensive men’s lived experience?
“You are disposable as a man and husband and father in this society. Proceed at your own risk. Just sayin’…” A very good observation by scrib that many do not want to acknowledge, today (especially when we talk about white men and what they have “brought to the table” in our society as a whole). We have groups of women (live or on TV) openly bashing men for (pick any subject) but if the roles were reversed then everything would come to a stop to address said “abuse”. The push back is real and it’s here, now, because of the… Read more »
“A unicorn is a mythical creature.” we create our own realities. there are no physical laws that proscribe each man’s ideal woman/women from existing in this world, right now. some would say, “how could that be possible?” others would say, “how could it not?” “How many unicorns do you think there are? How many men here are capable of locking one down?” I’ve been looking for number two since I found number one. once I find number two I’m sure I won’t stop there so this morning I think there are at least three and probably more. every man alive… Read more »
@Itsasecret: You’re right it turns men on to feel like “a big deal”. A women’s admiration is sexy, get’s his testosterone going. And it’s no wonder prostitutes know that (I never tried though), know how to be sexy. But that doesn’t mean that is all, especially when it comes to LTR-material. As Rollo said: Every man wants a slut, he just wants her to be HIS slut. http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/06/the-slut-paradox/ And from my experience a virgin can give that “big deal feeling” just as a slut can. The “natural ways and instincts”, unspoiled by bad experiences, often work very well, often better… Read more »
Don’t take your ball and go home. We enjoy your input. And I’m not just shit testing you. I’m sincere. @SJF I don’t really have a much time for the internet on the weekends. I save that for when I’m at work. lol. Great conversation though! I still maintain my position that any hot girl that graduates from college has been fucked in any way imaginable. I don’t know how old many of the people here are. I’m not exactly young myself, but college creates a culture of fucking for girls. You do two things in college. Fuck, study, fuck,… Read more »
Andy – I would not have kids with a woman that has had double-digit numbers of cocks inside her in the past. Just. Not. Happening. Fuck her? yep. LTR her? Maybe. Have my son with her?! nope. Especially considering the link I saw (here?) earlier suggesting that each cock a woman takes leaves its mark forever. (at least if she takes it bareback and he fires in the hole…)
If that’s the case, you’re “average girl” has the remains of 30+ dudes in her body, and you want to make babies with that?
“I very rarely think about sexual activities from 15 years ago.” usually feeding the trolls is a bad idea but sometimes bad ideas can produce good outcomes mentioning something, even (maybe especially) in the negative, means she’s thinking about it. people don’t bring up topics they aren’t thinking about. women love to think about their past sexual activities. two random examples: 1. took her virginity at 15. years later we meet for drinks at her work. she pays her: “remember that time you fingered me in driver’s ed?” I fingered and fucked her lots of places but she only took… Read more »
nothing makes a man feel like a big deal more than CHARTING NEW TERRITORY.
being first is the best feeling in the world.”
Funny how “the first” works for both men and women. I mean, its almost as if a man and woman having sex together for the first time form a special bond over the memory of it and the uniqueness of the event. You’d almost think something like that could foster a long term bond, especially if the couple keeps doing new and adventurous things over the long haul…
I would not have kids with a woman that has had double-digit numbers of cocks inside her in the past.
As in like 10!?!?
lol, am I the only non-delusional person here? I would have no problem out fucking 10 guys.
I wish I could live in your reality, it sounds amazing!
Andy – “lol, am I the only non-delusional person here? I would have no problem out fucking 10 guys. I wish I could live in your reality, it sounds amazing!” Apples and oranges man. I said I’d LTR a woman with a higher N, that would imply I’d be “out fucking” her past. Do you know anything about purebred dog breeding? If a female gets impregnated by a male from another breed, some breeders will push through two litters of pups before they’ll sell them again as purebred. The concern is the “mutt” traits may still be hanging on and… Read more »
@YaReally Yeah, a lot to think about there. I do think a big factor is the need to get the hell out of Dallas and the south in general, however I’m digging out of some past mistakes first before I make that jump. Shouldn’t be more than a few more months though at the rate I’m going, so that’s nice. There are a couple colleges here in the area (one not terribly far from my apartment), however the close one (UTD) is on the list of the 20 fattest colleges in the US, and the other is SMU. Super hot… Read more »
@Sun
According to demographics, University Park (where SMU is located) has considerable more females than males. Compare to downtown Dallas, where there are considerable more males than females. University Park has an average household income of $213K but a median of $119K, which means a mix of well off people and students.
Polygamy for men is illegal. In sixty years, feminists were successful at marketing / selling of women’s N count ,and men bought it.
Then came the marketing / selling of cuckold ,and men bought it too.
Now, you have the marketing / selling of women’s polygamy ,and “some” Men bought it too. In 2050, All men would buy it.
Rollo As I said this post isn’t about ‘man up and marry those sluts’, it’s about what to consider if a man wants to be a father in something more than being a weekend visitations Dad. These posts are to raise an awareness of how Hypergamy influences parenting and raising the next generation. This reminds me of a book I read some years ago on how to fly light aircraft, like Cessna’s or Piper Cubs, in the North American Rocky Mountains. People get killed every year doing that. One way to avoid the problem: don’t fly light aircraft in Colorado… Read more »
Rollo, I just published a post rethinking the sexual economics of eggs and sperm where I argue that sperm isn’t a commodity and that we should consider lifetime fertility, not merely egg count v. sperm count.
https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/rethinking-manospherian-sexual-economics/
I’d appreciate comments from you and your readers.
@MyReality – Hopefully you got that I love sexually active women – I wouldn’t get laid at 53 if it wasn’t for them (some half my age). I do not shame them but I found your POV kind of interesting so I wanted to dig deeper. Let me offer responses/queries and let’s see where this goes: 1. ” My number is fairly correct, it’s not intentionally underestimated. I’d have to go back and think about it to fully count.” – Lol. Really, lol. I lost count at 70 and am over 100 for sure, so I don’t judge. But your… Read more »
And it’s YaReally for the win. I’m making slow progress with game – my approaching is really world class now – I can approach any women. My escalation is not good though, and also my age is showing more and my natural skill seem to be a liability when I’m trying to kino, escalate, canoodle etc. Grrrr, this will take real work. Sharpening the approach stuff was easy. @Sun – Brother, I hear you. It I might offer some straight talk. I get the sense that all of this makes you angry and you still see the way women select… Read more »
The prostitutes? It was a strange argument from a women indeed.
@Andy – You should look at data, not present your personal observations as fact. Do some google searching, you will find that the “hookup culture” is not as pervasive in college as you would think. Some percentage of women come out of college without hooking up at all or doing so once. Of course, there are others who fuck so many men they lose count – my type of gals, lol. You do this alot – present your “beliefs” as fact and that’s why you get some friction here. You should learn to tell the difference and let go more… Read more »
Rollo! lol. Not true! But are you saying that I sound like such a terrible specimen of a woman that I could make more MGOTW? !!! Ha! I’m dying with laughter.
If you can figure out a way for me to vindicate myself let me know. I enjoy sharing my POV here, I’d hate for you all to write me off as a “sock puppet.”
And I was actually happy when I read that thing about DNA from previous sexual partners influencing children. I’ve been with some great stock.
“If you can figure out a way for me to vindicate myself let me know”
just do the gonewild verification scheme, and it’s okay to wear socks
Rollo, the exchange earlier between @fleezer and @scribblerg got me thinking about crying, and the fact that it’s another social convention so ingrained in our collective social psyche that we pay no respect to the differences between men and women crying. When a man cries the emotion can linger for days, weeks, maybe even months while a woman’s emotion from crying can correct within hours. A man might cry if he loses his job and his dog dies in the same week, but a women will certainly cry if the wrong time of month coincides with the bachelor not recording.… Read more »
@BreakinnBenjaminn
http://therationalmale.com/2013/02/26/the-crying-game/
@scribblerg I get the sense that all of this makes you angry and you still see the way women select mates as inherently unfair or unjust. I don’t say this to denigrate you, rather to offer that you must radiate this when speaking to them. Maybe that’s what comes across, but it’s not really what I think or mean to project. As I’ve stated previously, women should be selective. It’s good for the species. It ain’t about “fair” or “just”, it just is what it is. I’m actually quite accepting of the concept. Most of my frustration comes from my… Read more »
@Andy: Mr. G kinda beat me to it, but if on your campus you saw fuck, study, fuck, study, I can tell you there were some 80% of the beta men on campus who saw (and will see) no such thing. When I was in college I was one of them. (Maybe they heard fucknoises through the walls, at best.) This is even more true these days with the spreading of my favorite college policy, “Yes Means Scared Shitless of Fucking” (see the post Yes Means Fear for more, referenced above). Us beta boys are getting the message: fucking on… Read more »
Look, you have to understand, I write from the angle of a person happy in her position. This let’s me write more openly than I might have if I was insecure about what might happen to me (i.e. single or unhappily paired). So, @Scribblerg, if anything I’m undershooting my N. Really. My promiscuous years were from 17 to 23. After that I had what may be characterized as an early “epiphany phase” (I started seeing a lot of girls in a major metropolitan city miss the window to pair off with a good husband), and pretty soon after that (25)… Read more »
@Rollo
thanks
@Sun Wukong – My heart goes out to you. You sound very frustrated and forelorn. I would give you a hug if I could and you were willing to accept. “Hell, all I seem to find in the community are realizations that reinforce my own negative view of myself.” – Can you elaborate on this? It sounds worrisome. It sounds like maybe working up the necessary optimism you’d need to get your mojo back is thwarted by the dark and depressing manosphere? Sometimes trying to be aware of all of the possible dangers in the world can cripple us… Hugs… Read more »
@Sun – Dude, wow. Thanks so much for the brutal honesty. TRP is not for the meek or the weak. It’s nothing short of “changing everything you think and do” and I salute you for doing the work. And of course, it’s something in your head that is the problem here. Fyi, when I was in “recovery” we called moving to improve one’s life a “geographic”. I happen to know the DFW area reasonably well and I’m just not sure I agree with your reasoning. Moving is one of the most stressful things a person can do and should not… Read more »
A little off topic, but it does embrace many red pill observations in general as seen through the lens of geopolitics.
http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/bang-youre-dead/
“You do this alot – present your “beliefs” as fact and that’s why you get some friction here. You should learn to tell the difference and let go more quickly when challenged.” @scribbleberg Yeah I do that. It’s life long learned behavior resulting from always being right. 😛 One of the studies said that only 15% of kids leave college with more than 2 partners per year… Do these studies look at only females? Do they throw out the bottom X% of guys not getting laid at all? Does it throw out the disgusting fat chicks? Are there fewer males… Read more »
@ Cave Clown Average isn’t good enough. Average, these days, is a very low bar. Compare average 2015 with average 1941. Ok, you weren’t programmed correctly. So fix it if you haven’t already. I bet you’re far above average and the problem isn’t what you think it is. You indicate that you have options. Your wife already reads that in you. It scares her. You can get your wife to want to fakk you. It’s not that hard. Keep track on the calendar and let your wife know. Turn her down for sex when she tries to instigate it. Be… Read more »
@ scribblerg
But I’m where you are psychologically, I beat myself before the woman does. But the truth is that’s cuz I don’t know what to do as technically well as real PUAs do.
Lol, my technicals suck. Doesn’t matter as long as your Frame is strong. Internalize my Gamer Maxim: “Pussy is just pussy.” A beautiful woman is just pussy. Your mission comes before pussy. You are the prize.
“Do these studies look at only females? Do they throw out the bottom X% of guys not getting laid at all? Does it throw out the disgusting fat chicks? Are there fewer males getting more women?” They are not in your business of throwing out the black swans to confirm your bias. So, yeah, I’ll stipulate that if we throw out all the exceptions that you take exception to and only look at the true Scotswomen, you’re bang on the money. “I’m pretty sure you’re the first person to even refute what I’m saying about the reality of chick’s N… Read more »
@kfg
?
@Andy,
You are at a party, you meet a HB8, you are attracted to her, you started gaming her, she is receptive to you .Ya really arrives to the party ,he likes her too, he games her and she leaves with him.
You meet her a month later, she tells you Yareally is a player and she’s no longer with him .
Do you take her back?
Do you date her?
Do you marry her?
Or do you just pump and dumps.
Do you take her back?
Do you date her?
Do you marry her?
Depends on how many times she squirts. lol.
I don’t know man. Not everything is black and white.
http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/what-open-marriage-taught-one-man-about-feminism.html
Andy,
Do you think this story is black and white?
http://therationalmale.com/?s=last+rites+&submit=Search
@keyser
Yes. That is.
You talk like you would make your LTR decisions based solely on socio-political manospherian philosophy. I think that’s stupid. It plays a part, but at the end of the day it’s about how well you connect with the chick and gut feelings if you ask me.
“The performance she reserved for the men she perceived as Alpha and freely gave to them.”
Amy Schumer (on SNL this weekend) told the story of meeting Bradley Cooper, and ‘how he is so hot that when he’s in front of you you’ll just grab your ankles or say things like “Any hole is fine.”’
(Rollo’s quote one of his few grammar errors)
@YaReally FR: My wife and I have been married 15 years. Background on her. She’s one of those girls that gets along with men better than women. I know – red flag learned after red bill. She had more male friends growing up. Anyway, marriage got stale after 7 years (my beta contributed), then she got pregnant with my 1st kid. Then we had another after that. Ever since the kids, shit’s been stale. Sleep in separate rooms (8 years now). She says bed hurts her back, so she sleeps with child #2. After many years, I realized I was… Read more »
Your marriage is over. You told her she can fuck others? Definitely over. Go after some strange. When kids are gone divorce her.
She sounds like she’s not into you at all. That’s the reason you posted the story, right? You know it’s over. I feel for you man, but you should be going after other women. Stop punishing yourself by being her bitch.
@YaReally: “It’s like a war that had rules to keep shit from getting too fucked up, but one side has decided to toss the rules out and the other side is still clinging to them and getting slaughtered out of some retarded sense of “honor” or fear of having their Disney dreams of marrying a unicorn shattered.” Ouch, but it’s true. “Even I struggle with this at times and have to consciously remind myself celebrate every little success. Even TAKING ACTION is success to me and ya it doesn’t mean I got my dick wet but if you and I… Read more »
“And I was actually happy when I read that thing about DNA from previous sexual partners influencing children. I’ve been with some great stock.”
Wow. Just wow. So, its cool that your kid may have some DNA from your former lovers, and your children’s father just has to accept it… Did it ever occur to you the the father of your children may not think they men in your past are so great?
Solipsism at work gentlemen!
I guess it does explain why women just don’t understand the big deal about paternity theft. There’s no chance of it happening to them!