I apologize for interrupting the flow of this series’ posts, but I felt this question from reader Andy deserved a full stop:
I could care less who I’m talking to. IMO if you’re looking to disqualify a woman based on her sexual history you’re doing yourself a disservice because you better believe that the high quality chicks have been fucked in every way imaginable. If not you it’s somebody else… Might as well be you!
Have a look at this guy’s story in Saving the Best:
“I married a slut who fucks like a prude.”
Andy, I do agree with you in part. Too much overt concern (i.e. asking) about a woman’s sexual past is indeed demonstrating lower value. Men whom women consider Alpha, the men that women already have a mental impression of, don’t overly concern themselves with women’s sexual pasts because those men have multiple options going.
On some level of consciousness women know that if what he can glean from interacting with her about her sexual past is off-putting to an Alpha he’ll simply eject and move on to a better prospect. An Alpha mindset is often very minimalist, blunt and direct, but there are aspects of interacting with women that come as a default for a man who is his own Mental Point of Origin. One of those unspoken aspects is a self-understanding that he has options (or can generate more) and this is manifested in his indifference to a woman’s long term sexual suitability. If she doesn’t enter his Frame, to his satisfaction, he moves on to the next prospect with very little communication.
However, we weren’t discussing non-exclusive dating/fucking; we’re discussing making an investment in a woman we’re vetting for our own parental investment. When you consider the all-downside risks a man must wager on that investment it behooves him to be his most particular about that woman’s sexual past and the consequences that YOU will be burdened with if you don’t vet wisely.
Most men (myself included at the time) have very sparse prerequisites when it comes to their considering a woman for marriage or even an LTR. This lack of insight is the result of a constant battery of shame and preconditioning by the Feminine Imperative that tells men any requisites they would have of a woman for marriage are ‘passing judgement’ on her character. He should consider himself “lucky” that any woman would have him for a husband (or “put up with him”) and his concerns about her are shameful, typically male character flaws on his part.
Consequentially men rarely permit themselves the luxury of putting their own considerations above that of a potential mate.
Vetting
If you asked a woman whether she would be wary of marrying a man who was a recovering alcoholic or a cleaned up heroin addict she’d probably disqualify him as a marriage prospect from the outset. And were she to go ahead and marry him anyway with full disclosure of his past addictions, would we be sympathetic with her if he were to relapse and she to bear the brunt of his past indiscretions?
Now suppose that woman married this former addict, but due to his being offended about her prying into his past, she was ignorant of his old addictions. She has her suspicions, but society tells her it’s not her purview to hold him accountable for anything that happened in his past.
He’s moved on and so should she, right? Any lingering consequences from his addictions (such as a DUI, criminal record or his unemployability) shouldn’t be held against him, nor should she judge him, nor should she consider those consequences whatsoever when she’s assessing his suitability for marriage now.
In fact, she should feel ashamed to even consider his past with regard to her feelings about who he is. Her judgementalism only points to her own character flaws.
Now, would we praise that woman for “following her heart” and marrying him? Would we hold her accountable for the decision to marry him if he relapses?
Reverse the genders and this scenario is precisely why women become so hostile when men even hint at ‘judging’ women’s past sexual decisions. There is a very well established operative social convention that the sisterhood will all unanimously get behind; and that is the ruthless shaming of men who would ask any questions about any woman’s sexual past. This is the degree of desperation that women feel during the Epiphany Phase when they acknowledge men becoming aware of their long term sexual strategy.
They understand that, in their Epiphany Phase, the clock is ticking down to zero. That’s the cause of a lot of anxiety. They are just beginning to understand that their marriageability (Beta Bucks) now conflicts with their previous short-term mating strategy (Alpha Fucks). As I detailed in Betas in Waiting, women of this age cannot afford to have their short term sexual strategy count against them at a time when they are at their most necessitous of what that Beta can provide towards her long term security.
Again, on some level of consciousness, women understand that were the ignorant Beta she’s decided to marry (start a family with or help her raise her illegitimate children with) becomes aware of what she did in her sexual past he too might expect that same degree of sexual performance. The performance she reserved for the men she perceived as Alpha and freely gave to them.
Women must keep the details of that past secret and obscured. So grave is this anxiety that men must be punished for having the temerity to be curious about it. It is vitally important because a woman’s capacity to bond with a man is reduced with every new sexual partner. Every new sexual partner is a potential Alpha to be widowed by, but the man who marries her must be kept ignorant of those men if she is to secure his resources and his parental investment.
This social convention operates on absolving women’s past indiscretions by redefining them as a period of learning who she would become. It was her “journey of self-discovery” and she’s “not that person” any more. Cleverly enough this is exactly the same convention and same rationale of women who divorce their husbands later in life to “take the journey of self-discovery” of Eat, Prey, Love she passed up when she was younger.
Knowing this, it is also vitally important for men to keep women’s dualistic sexual strategy in mind at every age of her maturity.
Lets not forget the advice of Sheryl Sandberg here:
“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead
Open Hypergamy is triumphantly crowed about when women are at their SMV peaks, and sometimes again once that woman has secured her long-term provider or divorced him, but when a woman is in her Epiphany Phase, when she’s anxious and frustrated in securing her own long term provisioning, that is when she will fall back on the social convention that shames men for their own awareness of the same Open Hypergamy they would otherwise flaunt for him.
So, now that we understand the latent purpose of this social convention, let me explain to every gentleman reading – vetting a woman’s sexual past is not just your prerogative, but an absolute imperative to the health of any future relationship you hope to have with her. When you consider the dire risks you are essentially setting yourself up for – risk no woman will EVER acknowledge or appreciate – the single most important thing you can do is vet that woman’s sexual past.
That doesn’t mean you make weak, DLV, overt inquiries about her past. It means you subtly, covertly and discretely pick up on the many cues and tells she will reveal that past with. Most men would rather use a direct approach to this, and while there’s merit to that, it’s far better to do your vetting by drawing out freely offered information. It’s much more honest and reliable. Once you go the direct route the jig is up and she will play the role she thinks you expect from her, not the honest one you need to make your determinations.
Sex is the glue that holds relationships together. It’s the height of irony that a woman would place so high a priority on her own sexual experiences while in her SMV peak yet completely disqualify that importance when she gets to the phase where it becomes a liability to her. As a man it is vitally important for you to know whether you’ll be her apex Alpha lover or if your burden of performance will be measured against the ghosts of Alpha men from her sexual past – all while you endure the stresses and joys of raising children with her.
Her not having a job puts you in her financial frame. Ask me and my future $40000 a year alimony how we know…
If the pain of leaving is worse than the pain of staying, SHE HAS THE FRAME.
Andy – “Because divorce?”
If you are already married? Yeah that seems a valid threat. Lol
Also from my POV, if you have a good marriage I would suggest you take some time to digest all this before you start collecting notches. I certainly won’t say it can’t be done, but do a valid risk assessment first,
“She doesn’t want to work”
She sounds smart. She knows what she’s doing.
CaveClown – yeah in this day and age any woman that refuses to work is a red flag to me. We can talk about part time while the kids are young, but any wife with absoluty no valid work experience is a HUGE financial liability in a divorce.
@Cave Clown: “The likelihood that my ego is trying to protect itself is better than the likelihood that my wife is asexual.”
BPDs are the source of the stereotype that the crazies fuck like weasels in heat. They just don’t do it with their mates. It’s one of the defining characteristics of the disorder, why it is considered a disorder.
Protect your ego with the knowledge that it is not you. She be fucked up and shit.
Ted,
My wife flat told me that she will not work full time for fear I would divorce her if she made her own money. This was of course after she convinced me that she had traditional conservative values and wished to “tend home for her husband”
Right.
Lol
Kfg
Thanks man.
Two things. One: she’s bat shit crazy. Two: I’ve been beta.
I can’t fix myself being around her.
I think it’s more lazy than anything. Her own mother has chewed her out before. If by frame you mean I’d rather not live in a van then yes. Otherwise she sleeps with the kids and any money that does come in goes into my account. She has to ask for money since we have no joint accounts, Ironically now she want a job since I’m a tightwad so if she has a job and the kids don’t need daycare anymore I’ll pull the trigger on the divorce.
@kfg – “I see what’s in it for her but what’s in it for you?”
You make valid points. May I ask how old you are?
Most of the women in my target range, say, mid 30s and above, are quite jaded, are looking for providers and have very high N-counts. Maybe great for P-n-D but not really relationship material. I’m interested to hear your take on things, though. And of course @Rollo’s if he’s willing to chime in.
@RobertWhat?
I kind of hit on what you’re asking about with regards to older men (50+) dealing with younger women with history and baggage in this post:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/13/generation-alpha-widow/
Do you have kids, if not you’re getting screwed even worse than me. If I didn’t have kids she would actually get nothing in this state that I’m aware of. Small kids are cute but financial terrors in a divorce.
CC – ouch. My ex worked from our wedding day until our son was born, and then I busted my ass to make it on one income for 5 years. Unfortunately, I also doubled down on Blue Pill BS and tanked it all. I was relieved that she wanted to go back to work when the youngest started school, but only because of the extra income. We struggled along another 3 years before it went to shit, but at least she had been working and had an employment history. She also didn’t rape me in court, and in the end… Read more »
DVD, was that question at me?
Yes I have kids.
I am a high income earner. I make more monthly than most guys do in a year.
Rules are different at this level of income.
I think if the wife doesn’t work you’re screwed rule is the same though.
That doesn’t include child support either.
DVD – well us poorer slobs have to worry about jail if we can’t pay, but yeah I’d say a non-employed wife = screwed man in a divorce.
Alimony is based on income disparity. If she is young and can work, the court should expect her to do so. If not, get a better lawyer. Its not necessarily based off the past earnings, But on what she can earn today. It may not be as bad as you expect. Remember that alimony is a “quality of life” maintainer, not a full on dependent. This is why I have worked to reduce my total spending to only $60k per year over the last three years. That shows a low level of living. It is why I don’t have to… Read more »
Ironically if I got divorced in Japan it would shaft her much harder as they are more likely to give the man custody and alimony is just a small lump sum. At least it was for the people I know who got divorced there. The downside is your “green card” is revoked and you can’t stay except as a tourist.
@hoellenhund2 You should probably do some research. Roosh isn’t a PUA and his ROK/Neomasculinity stuff isn’t PUA and he doesn’t even like PUAs. https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-47586-post-1023953.html#pid1023953 “MGTOW is designed for quitters/celibates, providing almost no answers for men who want normal relationships with women. MRA is designed for older men who already got burned badly by the system. It’s dependent on state approval to succeed. PUA is a primarily commercial enterprise that involves a heavy transfer of money from sex starved males to marketers and attempts to treat sex as existing in a cultural vacuum while promoting unsustainable behaviors.” I’m guessing from the… Read more »
Step One: Empty your damn teacup.
Step Two: Listen and watch.
Step Three: Practice.
@kfg
Care to translate this for us mere mortals?
This is why I have worked to reduce my total spending to only $60k per year over the last three years. That shows a low level of living. It is why I don’t have to pay $60k in alimony.
Sound like you have a good lawyer. If your income was 60k you would be getting the hard shaft.
@dvdix,
On the day you met her, you asked her to bring her friend for 3some ¿¡
Then SHE, married you .
She tells you to go to prostitutes ¡¡¿¿.
I’m sorry to tell you, you were/will never be her Alpha.
She has a high libido, but not for you.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/i-love-him-i-love-him-not-239857
Ps,
Rollo,
Do you remember when Badpainter gave me shit for saying what you said to dvdiox.
Gah! DVD listen man,
I’m saying that unless you have talked to a lawyer you don’t know.
You just don’t.
Keep expenses low to show a low level of living. She can and should work post divorce. The difference is what alimony is based on, and is usually negotiated in mediation. No judge, no court.
Taking on more kid expenses reduces alimony too.
Don’t be a defeatist.
And yes, I’ve got the best lawyer in the state. Of course I do.
If a woman has a high libido at some point it shows. At least she would be looking at social media sites instead of Japanese news and comedy sites. I’d say another red flag is no sex toys or literally anything sex related at all. As in nothing. Most women at least have a vibrator or had one in the past.
Yes I talked to a lawyer. He’s the one that showed me a mediation website on where to go but made it clear that unless she worked and the kids don’t need daycare I’d get hosed. Support in this state is a math model that takes daycare as one of the factors.
@dvdivx
Your wife/LTR already knows how to please you. The truth is she doesn’t want to:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3fqxfy/the_best_blowjob_of_my_life/
@tedd @Andy “Do keep in mind that the deal you made up front probably didn’t include extra women for you on the side. Nothing says the wife has to accept your terms for a contract renegotiation, and if so it leaves you in the position of divorce or having her completely shut you down.” This. Read my shit on pLTR. It’s difficult if not impossible to go from monogamous commitment to having fuckbuddies. Like it can be done, technically, but it’s a huge crapshoot that’s HEAVILY favored toward blowing up in your face. If you’ve made a monogamous commitment, you’re… Read more »
DVD – interesting link. Loved this quote:
“We don’t know if men are picking up on this behavior, but if they are, it must be confusing for them,” Larson said.
ROFL all they gotta do is come here to see plenty of men are aware, and more by the day!
“May I ask how old you are? ” Not yet 65, but close enough that I’m starting to lay out my training plan for setting 65+ athletic records. The oldest woman I have ever slept with was 29, and my excuse is that I was married to and living with her at the time. In the past 25 years I haven’t slept with a woman over 24. The 24, again, had been living with me for years. I have to be careful to vet the women who take the initiative to pursue me. You can’t trust visuals these days and… Read more »
@rollo
“Yes, if you’re the ‘right guy’ your sexual abuse girl will be sexual for you. I’m not sure you’d actually want to be that right guy, but there you go.”
I can link to many papers that show sexual abuse victims have serious problems with sexual function. Beyond the vague abstract of alpha cure-all and female sexuality fluidity how do you support this position? Do you define “be sexual” as capable of doing the act regardless of sexual desire?
@redlight, I could cite studies (particularly ones that focus on BPDs) that would show you a pattern of female sexual abuse victims who seek to reconcile that abuse by seeking out sexual experiences with ‘right guys’ that are really the worst thing for them. Again, the ‘right guy’ is an abstract term, not the caricature of an Alpha you’d like it to be. The Beta in Waiting chump who makes himself available to a woman during her Epiphany Phase is the ‘right guy’ for that woman’s circumstance. Yes, Alpha dominance and Frame control makes a difference in a woman’s capacity… Read more »
@Ya Really: “The reality is the world you old guys dealt with when you were our age is dead and buried.”
That’s why I don’t live there any more.
@Andy “I don’t want to say telepathy, but that’s basically what it looks like. I want that.” Stages of learning are: 1) Unconscious incompetence (you don’t even know that you don’t know) 2) Conscious incompetence (you know that you don’t know) 3) Conscious competence (you know, but execute it consciously) 4) Unconscious competence (you know and don’t have to think about it) What you see in RSD vids is usually the 4th stage, because they go out so much and have so many reference experiences in their head, their brain is just calculating shit way faster than someone who has… Read more »
Rollo said: ” Frigid woman, same story. If you represent that woman’s ideal of optimized Hypergamy, in the right place at the right time, you’re the right guy.” I’m guessing that many guys can’t grasp this concept. There really isn’t a great mystery to women, in the final analysis. If a man has not learned this by trial and error ( the most popular and difficult route ), then absorbing Red Pill truths will go a very long way in understanding the mechanics that make women who they are and why they are. It will also help men understand why… Read more »
@kfg “Don’t trust a lay over 30 – and except maybe for a one night stand, no kids.” I steer clear as fuck away from girls over 30 (I’m mid-30s), ESPECIALLY now that I’m mid-30s, because they want to lock a high-value mid-30s guy down hard. I have to double-down on disqualifying myself as Provider material because they are looking at me like their last chance to settle down and have kids etc. And they get PISSED if I don’t want them, because in THEIR mind “we’re the perfect age!!”, they think I should want them when I can still… Read more »
Basically my view on 30+yo’s lol:
It’ll be too late for a lot of guys reading this, but the next generation of men may do better so it’s worth looking into even if we aren’t around to see the effect it has if applied en masse. Yeah man. I’m not stupid. I’m only going to try it at the point where I’m okay with a divorce. Money just doesn’t mean that much to me. I’m going to work this marriage to the point where there could not possibly be anything more for me to improve other than pLTR frame. She’ll rationally have two options. Happiness and… Read more »
Your wife/LTR already knows how to please you. The truth is she doesn’t want to:
I don’t think you get that there are just some women that aren’t into sex. Anymore then there are men that aren’t into sex. Even when she was interested in selling it so to speak before the marriage. It would be like saying ED doesn’t exist either. Sometimes something is just broken on the inside and it’s not an alpha beta model. Could be hormonal but it’s not a frame model. More of a chemical/genetic model.
@kfg – “…not yet 65 … oldest woman I ever slept with was 25…”
Triple kudos to you man. Where do you live? I have made a decent number of approaches in the last few months from late twenties on up. The younger ones didn’t take me seriously. So obviously something is missing from my approach. How do you approach so that they know you are serious and not just some fatherly figure? Or even worse, an older guy trying to be one of the “kids”?
@Blaximus “As for married men cheating, I’m not onboard.” The only guys I give a free pass on this to are the guys who got married before we had all this red pill knowledge available, or before they found it. Like the guys who got roped into the Disney fantasy with good intentions and found themselves trapped by a rigged con they didn’t realize they were the mark in. Any guy who discovers red pill shit and then gets himself into a monogamous LTR/marriage and cheats is an idiot and I don’t have a lot of respect for them. Because… Read more »
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20131125-why-the-stupid-say-theyre-smart
“But I wore the juice”.
@Rollo “Again, the ‘right guy’ is an abstract term, not the caricature of an Alpha you’d like it to be. The Beta in Waiting chump who makes himself available to a woman during her Epiphany Phase is the ‘right guy’ for that woman’s circumstance.” That doesn’t make sense, I just read somewhere that suits are like lingerie to women…if the “right guy” that triggers a woman’s Hypergamy is an abstract/flexible term, that would mean that a woman could find a scruffy guitarist in a t-shirt higher-value and more attractive than a guy in a suit…but if that’s the case then… Read more »
@YaReally:
http://evp.sagepub.com/content/13/4/1474704915608744.abstract?rss=1
Funny good guy = provider
Moody bad boy = lover
@DVD – First off, welcome! We all get your pain and fucked up situation for sure. You are in the right place but I think you need to just slow down a bit. Realize you are jumping in the deep end of the pond here. I have a few suggestions for you, take them if you like: 1. For now, put the focus on your “internal game”. Get the Red Pill for your own purposes and see where you’ve internalized the values and views of this FI soaked world. Read Rollo’s “best of” articles in order, links up top. 2.… Read more »
YaReally ” I don’t get into a mono LTR because I KNOW that I’m not happy in that situation, and I KNOW that because I’ve dated a lot of girls and learned that about myself. Any guy who discovers the red pill should be doing the same. If you can’t hold up your end of a monoLTR till you die, then you shouldn’t be agreeing to a monoLTR.” Cosign +1 All men MUST date multiple chicks, as many as possible. The scarcity mentality is in effect for most guys, and that’s perplexing. There are billions of women on the planet,… Read more »
@ redlight “your unwillingness to fully escalate will show up in your subcomms, making this pretend PUA exercise pointless, aside from whatever fun you derive from it. In other terms you are a cunt tease” Heh, I’m a pro at teasing cunts. Runs in the family. My sister is a pro at blue-balling. My subcomms show attraction, not unwillingness to fully escalate. Otherwise broads wouldn’t spend months chasing me. I’m not doing these broads any harm. They are getting something valuable–my attention. Remember, women want the following things: admiration, to be liked, the attention of men, and the desire of… Read more »
re monoltr
I had an idea I would be miserable in a monogamous ltr. But i thought I was just being immature. Man up! Marry her!
In other news, it’s been almost 24 hours since I cheated. Lol
Interested in game or gaming my wife. Two very different things. Most of it’s logistics for other women. No interest in gaming my wife. Ever. If I become free then yes. I have no plans on saving the marriage because it’s already dead. I can say that there really are women out there with low sex drives. It will not matter who the man is to an extent because there is something wrong. There are signs, like the lack of initiation lack of sex toys and other signs. Ignore them at your own peril. Any more then women could spot… Read more »
“The only guys I give a free pass on this to are the guys who got married before we had all this red pill knowledge available, or before they found it. Like the guys who got roped into the Disney fantasy with good intentions and found themselves trapped by a rigged con they didn’t realize they were the mark in.”
Ooh, ooh, ooh, me, me, me. lol…Ok, I was a dumb@$$. At least I stopped being a drafthorse.
dvdivx
Dead bedrooms are becoming a kind of epidemic, but that’s not due as much to lack of / low sex drive on the females part as you may think.
Did you determine if your wife had a low sex drive prior to marriage?
Better understanding of the sexual drivers for women will help you regardless of whether you do divorce or not. AWALT man, embrace it.
“Mismatched Libidos” is a social convention that excuses women from fucking their Beta husbands after the first child is born.
@Robert What?: Your exaggeration flatters me. That was 29. “Where do you live?” Upstate NY, as in north of Albany, not as in north of 95th Street. Ed Koch referred to it as the land of pickup trucks and gingham dresses, but it puts me in long day trip reach of Manhattan (where I was born), Boston (where my old family was from) and Montreal (where my family went to kick French ass). It’s also a land of small, private college towns which defy the rural stereotype. “How do you approach so that they know you are serious and not… Read more »
Lol…Rollo, I’m a Funny Moody Good Bad Boy.
@theasdgamer
I’m not cheating these broads. If they try to instigate or escalate, I’ll tell them, “No.”
I agree, you are not cheating them, if anything they are getting more out of it since they get dancing and chatting and attention and you don’t get to score. The problem is when you do a FR and the woman clearly wants you to escalate, such as the woman in the tub, you don’t push it and then you ask what you did wrong.
@ Rollo : I think you mean “mismatched libidos is a social convention that excuses women from fucking their Beta husbands after they marry”…
Married men: Sometimes it’s a matter of training. Example follows.
Mrs. Gamer was 5h1t-testing me during sex. I got up to leave and said, matter of factly, “This is over.” She apologized and begged me to come back.
Got to be willing to flake on sex if it isn’t in your frame. Postpone/reschedule sex from time to time. If a woman is uncertain that she’s going to get sex, she will be thirstier.
It’s stuff like this that causes Mrs. Gamer to come wake me up wearing nothing other than a T-shirt.
“I know though that if a man came along that pushed the right buttons for her, she would be gone. ” Cave seems to be a perfect example of why vetting is so important. A successful, responsible, dynamic man in good shape who is winning in almost every category can still end up in the position he finds himself in today. Doesn’t seem fair but life in 2015 clearly isn’t fair. A woman being very beautiful is not a good reason to marry her. It is essential, but there are so many other factors to consider. I will post the… Read more »
Yeah, they could at least feign attraction and fuck until the first kid, but mine didn’t even do that.
I got the first “not tonight” the first day after the wedding.
Thought I would share that, just in case anyone was mistaking me for an alpha.
And fleezers comment about how his relationship with a woman that has attraction just told me everything I needed to know about my wife and our marriage.
Thanks, that’s what I needed.
Divorce finalized by christmas it is.
“then you ask what you did wrong.”
I knew at the time that I was giving a 5h1tty FR. I’m a natural–goes with the territory. I knew that YaReally would pick it apart.
I’ll plan to go out and go for a 2 min. makeout with 8+s and give quality FRs. It’s hard to give quality FRs if you don’t plan ahead.
Cave, if you like, I can check out your old lady’s sex drive for you, heh. What are friends for?
@Fleezer, that’s a powerful comment you left. Without IDing yourself, just curious as to what you do for a living. I ask this because the whole “Be successful so you can have a beautiful, wonderful woman and life” seems overrated.
Hoo, crazy thread! Still catching up. Sorry to renege on the promised FR Sunday. Life caught up to me and I wasn’t able to go out gaming. Still got a gameplan though and I’ll hit the streets this weekend if not sooner. @Scribblerg Fuck yeah, let’s get this pickup thing down. I’ll write up what I manage when I manage it, and I’ll tell y’all I suck if I don’t manage to succeed or fail at least once in the week 😉 You’ve got mid-game issues, I’ve got approach issues (and likely more issues that will emerge once I get… Read more »
@Andy
“What am I missing man? Why one woman? Because divorce?”
I got distracted at work.
Blaximus and YaReally said it much better than I could.
elaboration re: “They flirt and joke and enjoy it, then when you try to escalate past that they’re like ‘holy shit this dude actually wants to bang me, I don’t know how I feel about that arg cognitive dissonance!’ So maybe the key is finding ways to reframe the whole concept for them…” I think this is exactly the sort of sticking point I tend to run into with co-workers/women married to guys in my social circle. I’m not actually trying to bang any of ’em cause I like friends and money, but I practice game on them. And yeah,… Read more »
Before I ever got into game I did some things right=body language & agree/amplify I did the best and didn’t really notice it until getting into this world. Whenever I get into escalation rut with a girl, I’ll use “boyfriend destroyer” game. I found that a while back, and I use it on the women I’ll target. I’m mid-thirties and I live in a college town. My girls are usually 25 & younger, and occasional women in there later twenties.The boyfriend destroyer I use is actually generational. Any man here knows if your in your mid-thirties hitting on a tri-delta… Read more »
@CaveClown Apparntly I don’t have that mindset with women. I turn down women as shitty as your wife left and right, and I’m probably less attractive than you. It’s easy to get exactly what you have right now if divorce turns out to be wrong. They are all over the place. She is not special at all. To me from what you’ve described she’s just another brain damaged head case the world enables. There’s your abundance mentality: she’s as common as sand on a beach. @kfg Step One: Empty your damn teacup. Step Two: Listen and watch. Step Three: Practice.… Read more »
Women are far more sexually fluid than men (look at the work of Meredith Chivers for example), so could a more dominant Alpha man get a lesbian wet? I don’t know, but I do know a woman aping his mannerisms, dress and Frame control can. So the “right guy” might not be even be male. In fact the “right person” might not be even real. Why do we care? If Lolo Jones never has sex and lives with religion and cats for the rest of her life, who cares? It’s not that you’re not the “right guy” or “right person”,… Read more »
When Lolo does photoshoots like this, I get the impression she’d like to fuck the ‘right guy’:
http://www.whatsondalian.com/ent_images/4fbc5e81a14c6_Lolo_Jones_6.jpg
@redlight, now consider this, what if Cave and DVD had been Red Pill aware and employing half decent Game before they met their wives? I’m fairly certain their stories would be much different. Even as it’s played out for them, there had to be a time when their wives did want to fuck them. I have seen countless examples of wives who had “intimacy issues” or said something like “well, sex declines after marriage for everyone so just deal with it” or cite “mismatched libidos” after the honeymoon and then go hog fucking wild with her girlfriends after the ink… Read more »
” Why would we care? ”
Simply as a matter of understanding for our own benefit. As to the rest, it’s a matter of which end of the telescope you’re looking through.
Rollo is talking about how it looks from the woman’s end of the telescope, because that’s the view that most men don’t understand.
redlight Okay, I’m gonna say this and leave it alone. It’s about ” understanding and knowledge “. If you are dealing with women on any level, understanding and knowledge is never a bad thing. Lolo Jones? Not interested at all, but ” women ” as a group? Yup, I wanna know some shit. It may very well be that ” she’s not the right person ” but I’d imagine that you would care to get the circumstances right. If not, you may as well say that every woman who’s not interested in you is a lesbian ( …in which case… Read more »
kfg-
Great minds think alike. : )
( yes, I did a smiley face…)
@Caveclown,
If you were the one with BPD, your wife would had left you 20 years ago, she will go on Oprah and the entire nation would agree with her. All she has to say : I’m not haaapy , she needs to live her life + lots of tears.
@dvd,
You lose your job, and your wife becomes sexual again (but with someone new).
Keyser,
Good point. She’s tried to get two separate counselors to believe I was the crazy one. they almost immediately ceased the joint counseling for “everyone’s protection”
Then they sit me down and tell me I am sane, and that they shall enjoy the challenge of working with her.
Makes me proud! It’s like she is competing in the crazy Olympics!
Bring home gold baby! Bring home the gold!
If I was 20 years younger, Lolo would be fucked if I could get to her.
At my current age…. I’d give myself a 40% chance of grindage.
I’m good with that.
in which case you may still be able to bed her, but you don’t believe this
Certainly you can bed some lesbians, I’m not sure why you are stuck on absolutes. If you go to a soft lesbian club (one where there is a mix but a higher percentage of lesbians than your standard club), you will see some guys trying for threesomes. If you go to a regular lesbian club you won’t get in. Your chance of fucking a butch dyke is zero.
Re: Lolo photoshoots. She gets off on the ” virgin waiting for right man ” meme, but my eyeballs do not deceive me when they tell me that the proclamations and photo’s are a source of sexual proof for her, along with ( what she knows is ) millions of male eyeballs roaming her nude body with mighty lust. Meh… In my youth I’d pursue chicks like her just to plow her out and move the fuck on. She can take her qualifications and stick them up her muscled ass. Lmfao!!! But… I’ll look at her nude ass. Why not?… Read more »
“…Your chance of fucking a butch dyke is zero. ”
Okay.
@Rollo: “If there’s virgins out there, I’m going to let them know, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life—harder than training for the Olympics, harder than graduating from college, has been to stay a virgin before marriage.”
Ooooooh boy, would she ever!
@Blaximus: Extremely well cared for, but still past prime. Besides, she outweighs me. I’ll pass. Where the figure skaters be at?
@kfg
Extremely well cared for, but still past prime.
Agreed. Would not pursue aggressively, would pump ‘n’ dump opportunistically.
I’m gonna bet if she is actually a virgin (shyeah, right) that she got some issues back there as to why. Even if it’s just that Jesus is a harsh Alpha.
” If you go to a regular lesbian club you won’t get in. Your chance of fucking a butch dyke is zero.”
I can, with a good game and a T-shirt.
kfg-
lol.
I’ll tell ya, I have a thing for big, strong girls. ( I have a thing for all girls actually ). I was the guy in high school that fucked cheerleaders and the 6ft tall girl’s basketball player. Maybe it’s a fetish? Idk.
redlight says I speak in absolutes or something, but he thinks that chances of fucking a butch dyke is zero and I know that’s not true. Nobody really wants to, or even tries…but me at one point. But my theory is that all females want to get fucked well, some dykes included.
Rollo,
“..Imagine what it must be like to get that from your wife once or twice when you were dating and never see it again, but you know she’s capable of it under the right set of conditions.”
THIS!!! THIS HERE!!!!
True. At some point the wife fucked you so what changed is the monumental question. ” Frigid Bitch ” is an incorrect answer and goes nowhere near answering the riddle.
I see that you want to apply blame to these guys’ wives and maybe that’s warranted, like in that reddit link I posted upthread, their wives know how to please them, they just don’t want to please them. I took out the “but” I don’t need to imagine, I’ve lived it. Little money, living in a dive (hookers and drunks also lived in the building), started dating wife. Decided she would be a great mom (she is), married, kids. Slide into provisioning, since that’s what I go to do, right? House, furniture, bbq etc. She develops “medical problem” that makes… Read more »
“True. At some point the wife fucked you so what changed is the monumental question. ” Frigid Bitch ” is an incorrect answer and goes nowhere near answering the riddle.” What changed? She was unable or unwilling to keep up her duplicity. Did I go beta? Sure. But as a reaction to her unveiling her true motivations, and after a couple of years of “angry” I wasn’t that alpha to begin with. But I wasn’t “like the others” and she gave up her V when others had tried so hard and failed. But, taking her virginity was just the start… Read more »
Andy spoke of an energetic porcelain skinned beauty, or some shit like that…lol…it’s okay to fantasize, but keep it in perspective. It takes a certain talent to juggle babes simultaneously. Without that talent I guarantee things won’t meet your expectations. You’ll probably screw the pooch.
Thanks for the words of encouragement dude! Wtf?
Andy
Lol… I’m just sayin’.
Be careful what you wish for.
“Be careful what you wish for.”
That’s helpful. Thx. Any more golden nuggets of wisdom?
Andy Don’t get snippy son, I’m only trying to help. But since you asked, if you have no issues with your wife, keep learning. Useless Anecdote #4092 – I had a friend a long time ago. Polish gentleman who was barely 5 ft tall and looked like the lost Allman Brother. He was obsessed with the way in which you could kill using bare hands. For years he sought out the information anywhere he could find it. We spent a lot of time with him showing me the most gruesome ways to kill a man. He even practiced on me… Read more »
Funny how women uses Bi-polar / BPD / depression, for not fucking Or for fucking a LOT.
Excuses, excuses.
http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20951803,00.html
http://m.huffpost.com/us/news/suzy-favor-hamilton-prostitute
Women compartmentalize and use different kinds of men for different things all the time. The alpha/beta thing is really the female version of the supposed madonna/whore “complex” right? Some of you might disagree, but what I suspect is that there is no madonna/whore complex for men, but that the contradiction between wanting an easy, high quality lay and a good mother is really the differential that results from women’s sexual choices because women are the ones that are truly in power when it comes to mate selection while men, for the most part, take what they can get and do… Read more »
I guess what I’m asking here is that if the beta could get the slut at the end but actually have a reasonable expectation of her sexual best and loyalty, would men really care that much about female promiscuity?
If I was on my death bed and Heidi Klum came by to visit me and she offers me a last fuck, I would fuck her in a second.
The chances of that happening is 0.0000 in a Trillion.
If my wife (I am not married) was depressed + Bi-polar + BPD. On her way to see her shrink, she runs into George Clooney, she will be healed enough to fuck him.
The chances of her running into George is 5 in a 10000, the chances of her fucking George is a 100%.
Biology 101 I want a slut to spread my seed instead of someone elses. So, competition with other men/genes. I want a virgin for guaranteed reproduction of my genes. No competition from other men/genes. I don’t want to be cuckolded because I might be the man who’s sperm loses the race. Loss of reproduction due to competition. I want multiples of virgins or sluts for all the same reasons. Instinctively, you would not commit to a slut because you run the risk of provisioning for a bastard. You can’t really ever, biologically, get the sexual best from any chick that… Read more »
@Rollo “Funny good guy = provider Moody bad boy = lover” No idea what the lab experiment has to do with anything. It’s just confirming that women’s view of high-value is flexible depending on circumstance, which would just back my point up if we pretend lab experiments have any kind of credibility when it comes to this stuff lol I used to bring a VERY blue-collar buddy to high-end venues, and he dressed in his blue collar clothes while everyone else was done up in suits. Dude bought into the same frame as you and got nothing from chicks there… Read more »
I check it out. Your last paragraph with the RSDTodd stuff & the other gems like your posts will be checked out for sure.
“Don’t self create problems, be prepared for the eventuality.”
I get what you are saying. Doesn’t fix my deathbed regret problem.
Regret scenario one:
Die knowing I didn’t try to fuck young beauties and perfect pick up.
Regret scenario two:
Die perfecting game and pick up, but fucked up my marriage.
Scenario 3: Everything pans out. No regrets.
@Divided Line I guess what I’m asking here is that if the beta could get the slut at the end but actually have a reasonable expectation of her sexual best and loyalty, would men really care that much about female promiscuity? Betas don’t care right now until they lose everything. They honestly believe they’re sooooo lucky to finally have the girl that made them wait, because her past is behind her and she’s totally ready to settle down with him forever. Ain’t no delusions like self delusions. It’s only the guys somewhere just below the upper 20%, the Betas that… Read more »
@ caveclown Yeah, but it’s not that simple because there are competing biological drives and mating strategies, especially for humans if we are somewhere in between a pair bonding and tournament mating species, as Robert Sapolsky explains. Men are concerned with paternity, but only in a pair bonding context. In a tournament mating context, men simply want more sexual access. Both are strategies for securing your genes are reproduced. In a modern context, if men compartmentalized women the way women compartmentalize the different men in their life, then there’s no reason to try to find the madonna and whore in… Read more »
@Divided.
All men, since the cradle of civilizations, wrote the best epic stories about love.
Men, are the true romantic, Men are the true lovers.
Men loved unconditionally, Men were and still yearning to be loved by women unconditionally.
When we love a woman, we want her to be the only one she fucks.
ALL men want to be loved/ fucked unconditionally by a woman who would give her love/fuck for him only. Promiscuous women spread their love/fuck to all men .
My question is:
Why do men want to be loved unconditionally?
@ keyser soze
“Why do men want to be loved unconditionally?”
I think it’s the same reason that a starving man values food more than somebody who has never known starvation. It probably originates in men’s inherent lower sexual market place value relative to women. I really wonder if this desire wouldn’t just dissipate if there was some way to level the playing field.
You could institutionalize the pair bonding part and give free reign to the tournament aspect of human sexuality, probably for the benefit of everyone.
@divided line
Yeah, I like this. The other scenario is that we learn to stop or reverse the aging process so that reproduction isn’t necessary. I wonder which one would happen first? Haha.
@ Andy
I really want to know what it’s like to tag a woman as a beta mom and friendzone her.
Yareally, “I used to bring a VERY blue-collar buddy to high-end venues, and he dressed in his blue collar clothes while everyone else was done up in suits. Dude bought into the same frame as you and got nothing from chicks there (they could read his insecurity in his subcomms), till over time he got more comfortable in the environment and loosened up and started expressing himself more (he was a Natural). Once he got comfy he was running circles around the suit guys. It was ridiculous lol So many chicks have a fantasy of fucking a rough manly blue… Read more »
“In a modern context, if men compartmentalized women the way women compartmentalize the different men in their life, then there’s no reason to try to find the madonna and whore in one woman. We could simply create a set of legal structures which would make a false pair bonding relationship equitable and reasonable for both parties and dispense with sexual monogamy entirely.” Because for most men, monogamy to the “born again madonna” is the only way they can get laid. There are not “men” There are alphas and betas. What you suggest would work for an alpha sure, but not… Read more »
“Why do men want to be loved unconditionally?”
Pretty sure rollo covered this.
Something about our mommy’s. lol
oh and,
Relief from the burden of performance!!!
I gave up on unconditional love a long, long time ago.
You know the drill: Buy a dog.
“I really want to know what it’s like to tag a woman as a beta mom and friendzone her.”
Lol, make sure you laugh in her face. I’m pretty sure there was a Star Trek episode where there was an alien planet that was like what you are describing.