The Crying Game

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Not Carrie Bradshaw (?) made an observation in last week’s post I wanted to riff on a bit:

…..A conclusion I’ve come to in the past couple years is: a woman crying gets support while a man crying gets shunned.

Only to an extent. A crying women will elicit support and sympathy from men only if she is young and beautiful. Otherwise she is just an irritation that needs to be shut up,

A crying woman will elicit support and sympathy from women only if she belongs to the same “tribe” as the woman offering support and sympathy. Will a crying old black woman get any sympathy from a young white chick ? Not so much.

Men are not biologically pre-disposed to crying (not as much as women anyway) so when they do, no one really knows how to respond. Particularly if it is in front of strangers and the reason for his tears is not clear at all. Admittedly this is a very very rare occurance – usually when a man has mental issues or is having a mental breakdown.

Normally men cry in front of family, very close friends, people whom they trust implicitly or in front of medical emergency personnel so I don’t think he will be shunned in those circumstances, especially if it involves death or loss of something very very important to him.

Since 2010 I can think of only three instances when I broke down and cried – my father’s death, my wife’s younger brother dying suddenly at 39 and the loss of one of my best dogs. It’s not because I’m some unfeeling badass that nothing affects, but I think it’s more about what moves me, or any guy, beyond that threshold. I’m pretty good at holding back that lump in my throat from crossing the line.

Since its inception, part of the of the package feminization sold men about “getting in touch with their feminine sides®” included the encouragement of boys learning to be in touch with their emotions and cry more often. It was part of their ‘sensitivity training’, and they were acculturated to believe that women would appreciate them more for their honest tears. You’d think guys who’d learn to cry on demand would have it made, right?

Vestiges Revisited

NCB’s comment was in response to Hero’s observation from that same thread:

A conclusion I’ve come to in the past couple years is: a woman crying gets support while a man crying gets shunned.

A woman crying is still biologically valuable. She still has a vagina and a uterus. She could still successfully carry and care for a child. Thus she is embraced and supported by the tribe.

A man crying is a liability. His crying will alert the predatory animals and invading gangs to his position. His distress is actually a problem for the tribe.

It is a blatant lie that feminism is about creating equality. We have been misled into thinking that men should emote and talk about their feelings. Very few people in a man’s life will give a shit when he is going through a rough time in his life.

Women are afforded vast support and provisions that men will never know.

One of the most annoying sounds for me, and if the studies are accurate all human beings in general, is the sound of a crying infant. It was a species survival trait that this sound psychologically evolved to prompt such an irritated response in humans. No matter who’s child was doing the crying, you damn well couldn’t ignore the distress coming from the baby.

It’s easy to make the association of how this ‘check-the-baby’ dynamic is a vestige of what evolved to make our species so successful; if it didn’t annoy us, more distressed babies wouldn’t have made it to semi-adulthood. However once we pass a certain stage of development, overt emotional displays (the most obvious being crying) diverge drastically for us by gender. As Hero observes, graphic displays of emotionalism were a sign of weakness to protohuman tribal societies. Women generally took care of crying infants and the association of infantile helplessness, in addition to being a general annoyance,  would necessarily be a liability to the group’s survival integrity. From a male-only perspective we can see the implications of this, but expand that to the social cohesion of the tribal unit and you can see that overt displays of emotionalism from men would also be associated as signs of implicit weakness for tribal women. Thus a rational control of emotion became hardwired into men’s psyches.

So you see when the feminine imperative makes attempts to feminize men, as with all of feminization’s efforts, it struggles against thousands of years of species-valuable, in-bred psychology.

She Cries

The parallel to this dynamic is women’s crying. Have a listen to the interplay of emotionalism in the woman’s voice in this radio bit and article.

White Knights will come out of the woodwork to defend the indefensible in spite of the circumstance responding viscerally to a woman weeping. How did you feel when you heard the girl cry?

Once again, as Hero points out, the sound of a woman crying elicits the innate protector response for men, but as NCB examines, only insofar as that woman presents a viable reproductive prospect. Since this woman’s vocal intonation is within a feminine pitch as she weeps and pleads her case we’re more predisposed to sympathy for her, even in light of her redhanded betrayal of trust. Imagine this woman’s voice being raspy from years of smoking, lower from a higher testosterone  level or chordless like an old woman’s. Our male reflexive response, while still humanistically sympathetic as manageable, would be far different than what a young and associatively breed-worthy woman’s vocal intonations would cue us in to.

Again, we’re seeing hearing a species-valuable evolutionary vestige in the reflex men experience when they hear a reproduction-viable woman cry. To a degree it overrides even our rational capacity to separate the implications of her behavior with the empathy we want to establish with a woman we perceive as being a potential mating opportunity. It’s not that men can’t resist this empathy and apply a rational solution to a problem, it’s that it requires an effort for a man to do so.

It comes back to the Cap N Save a Ho dynamic and the Savior Schema. Empathize, protect and bond with a woman in distress (particularly emotional distress) and the potential payoff will be sexual intercourse.

Men’s effort to sublimate this empathetic sexual opportunism in favor of rational action has not gone unexploited by the feminine imperative. Thus you have women’s facility to cry (even under conditions of culpability) in order to provoke that male protector response. It’s like the crying baby example, stimuli and response.

Also, it’s important to mention women’s preferred method of communication, that is to say covert. When a woman cries she’s moving into an overt form of communication she knows will register with men, and this is usually the result of her having exhausted all her covert utilities. When women opt for overt communication it generally means one or two things have occurred: 1) she has reached the point of exasperation using covert means to convey her message, or 2) she has reached a point of desperation in her condition and needs the visceral response men will react to in order to defend and/or empathize with her (often in spite of herself).


34 responses to “The Crying Game

  • Pechorin

    Nice and clear.
    Rollo May might have had relevency, but now people need to hear about Rollo Tomassi.
    Thanks.

  • rob

    “…Normally men cry in front of family, very close friends, people whom they trust implicitly or in front of medical emergency personnel so I don’t think he will be shunned in those circumstances, especially if it involves death or loss of something very very important to him.” – try doing that in front of your wife or girlfriend on a regular basis and see what happens to your relationship, women look to men for security and if a man cries regularly in front of his woman, she will inevitably conclude that she can’t depend on him and probably begin the process of searching for another man in her life. It’s unfortunate but men really aren’t allowed to cry

  • taterearl

    “It comes back to the Cap N Save a Ho dynamic and the Savior Schema. Empathize, protect and bond with a woman in distress (particularly emotional distress) and the potential payoff will be sexual intercourse.”

    The quickest way to stop that thinking is one of the corollaries of Briffault’s law.

    Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit.

    Or in other words…current comforts won’t lead to future sex.

  • Cesare

    The shoe fits. With Women what they feel takes complete primacy over their actions, hence hypergamy with all it’s byzantine self rationalizations. With Men it doesn’t matter so much what you feel as what you actually Do; the hero is generally as scared as the coward he just does different things about it.

  • Black Poison Soul

    Yeah, crushing that Cap’n-Save-A-Ho reflex is one of the hardest things to do. Most especially when it raises its head along with a woman’s tears. Umpteen years of training and evolution are difficult to bypass.

    In similar vein, these days the best thing for a woman who’s being raped to do is to scream out: “Fire!” Too much crying wolf? Nobody wants to get involved any more.

  • Vicomte

    I forgot how funny that one was.

    Bitch be trippin.

  • Hyperion

    I’ve seen crying so overused by women as a purely manipulative tactic that I’m inured to it. When I sense that she’s only simulating an about-to-cry state, I’ll disarm it by asking “are you really sad, or just fake sad?” (This also works to disarm “fake” anger too – such as when she crosses her arms over her chest and pouts to gain your attention). Obviously, if one of her loved ones just died, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt. But as a manipulative tactic of last, or first, resort, this is just obnoxious. I don’t see the need to hand a woman an additional trump card to use whenever things aren’t going 100% her way.

    In addition to their overusing this tactic (like the boy who cried wolf), this also allows them to indulge in bad behavior of making demands via emotional outbursts, and often without necessarily telling you what it is they want. From the woman’s standpoint this is a great strategy, as it:

    1) Allows her to transfer all the responsibility for her happiness to you

    2) Forces you to be a mind reader to know what she wants. She may even stop talking (or be unintelligible through her sobs) and choose to send her message entirely in sobs and shrieks.

    3) Allows her to be vague about what she really wants, so she can keep open her demand on you to fix “it”, whatever “it” is. If by luck you do fix “it”, she may not let you know that, but instead move the target on to something else equally secret.

    Instead of falling for this and trying to please someone who is committed to making herself unhappy, stop her at the first sniffle and make it clear that:

    a) You won’t discuss anything with her when she is emotional, but especially when she WORKS herself into that state.

    b) You may HELP her but you aren’t responsible for her happiness.

    c) If she wants something, she must state exactly what she wants and ask for it in a calm manner. Parents encourage infants of 2, 3 and 4 year’s of age to use their words. There’s no excuse for a 25 year old not to do so as well.

    d) And generally, she should get herself together. Most men want to bang the babysitter, not BE the babysitter.

  • Jeremy

    I would also surmise that women have this behavior reinforced in childhood from fathers who succumb to this instinct and allow manipulation from their daughters to be effective.

  • Myxomatosis

    As always Rollo, great work. A crying woman doesn’t induce shit from me because I grew up with three sisters, which was all the education I needed in dealing with women. Let them cry…they’ll stop when attention hasn’t been paid. Then they’ll coming looking for you, which, at that point, I can deal with it on my terms.

  • Hero

    The discrepancy here is another example of how men and women are not equal and, more importantly, not treated equally despite what equalists and feminists will tell you.

    I was brought up to believe that people would listen to you when you are in distress and that emoting and communicating that emotion is a good thing. There’s a point at which, for men, that support stops even from your friends and especially from your woman. Women are turned off and most men start to recoil at some point and will not be able to listen. You are best off seeking the solution yourself and perhaps confiding in a few close male friends.

    This becomes an important point for me to teach my two young boys. Women do overuse and exploit their emotional displays but it’s important to remember that men are not given anywhere close to the support that women are.

  • Chuck Hammer

    Great essay. Looking back on myself as a young man (early 20s) I can say one of the reasons I allowed myself to be beta-ized at times is because I flat out couldn’t tell the difference between women’s real and fake emotions. Worse, I didn’t even realize that women would fake emotions just to manipulate me. So I’d respond to every manipulative emotional display as if it was the real thing. I’d go back and slap myself if I could.

  • YaReally

    At 5:55 crying while being disciplined is covered:

    Highly recommend watching the whole video and its other two parts:

    http://manhood101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1830

    As well as reading their free eBook:

    http://manhood101.com/principles101.pdf

    They have a very interesting perspective on being a man that fits a lot more with the Manosphere than a lot of PUA stuff does (it’s more about how to handle your own shit as a man in general in life and why you should, vs how to seduce women). I like their descriptions of “order vs chaos” and they talk about having/executing authority/discipline etc.

    Anyway I just wanted to link the video above because in the scenario where you’re punishing a girl for shit behavior, she’ll often instinctively resort to crying to get you to back off and basically shit-test how easily you can be swayed from your beliefs. And most guys will back off or coddle her or try to make her stop crying which simply encourages her to use this to get her way in the future and it tells her that the tears of a silly girl can sway her man from his course in life and make him go back on his beliefs/values/etc.

    This subtly tells her sub-conscious that he’s a man that the world can push around and suddenly her Hypergamy notices that that alpha YaReally she meets on her next Girl’s Night Out who properly disciplines her when she acts like a brat and isn’t swayed by her tears is oddly attractive to her… :)

  • Mark Minter

    In clinical terms.

    Men organize into a dominance hierarchy and their position within the DH directly relates to their mate value.

    Women do not form a DH and they network, as a means to discuss the mate value of the men.

    The male mate value is only a function of his status position in the DH. If his position in the DH rises or falls then his mate value rises or falls.

    The mate value of a woman is intrinsic and is a function of her fertility and is measured in her youth and beauty. Only time or illness may reduce her mate value.

    Both men and women actively “police” the DH, the men though fluid dominance tests and the women through gossip.

    If a man cries, he risks reducing the perception of his status in the DH. This is also true if a man complains or even seeks medical attention. Stoicism is the better play to reduce the risk of status loss in the DH. Part of his status is bringing comfort and security to those entrusted to him and his crying damages that sense of comfort and security derived as a function of his strength.

    Since a woman has inherent mate value as an intrinsic of being a woman and her mate value is a function of her youth and beauty then she incurs no penalty in her mate value and is free to cry, seek and demand preferential medical treatment, and mostly, as men are fully aware, to complain at an almost limitless rate.

    Since women have an inherent biological value as the limiting part of reproduction, valuable eggs vs worthless sperm, her cries are attended by men in both an evolutionary tendency to protect that biological status she has, and also to police the DH. If her cries are due to an injustice from a man then that can be used to adjust the DH as this man can be considered “a cheater”, someone who violates the rules.

    In times before modern history, 50% of men might die at the hands of other men, from illness, or from accident. Pain and suffering is inherent to the male experience despite that harping of woman about maternity.

    So it could be assumed that since crying served no use, and those with the propensity to cry had their reproductive status downgraded, it is safe to assume that the tendency was deleterious and ultimately phased out of the gene pool of most men.

    A confession:

    Crying women give the biggest woody and for a long time I didn’t understand how a girlfriend or my ex-wife could be bawling her eyes out and I just wanted to fuck the shit of her more than almost any other time.

  • Lumpy

    @Mark Minter:
    To quote a great seducer of our time: “grief is nature’s most potent aphrodisiac.”

  • YOHAMI

    Mark Minter, agree on everything but this

    “valuable eggs vs worthless sperm”

    Quality sperm is a woman’s most precious treasure.

  • Johnycomelately

    So woman regress to infantilism when they are under extreme duress.

    I can’t wait for the historical memoirs of WWIII describing how when a lieutenant entered his Major’s tent facing immenant defeat he found her slumped over a map bawling her eyes out.

    Wondering to himself if he takes over the command would he be charged with subversion or sexual harassment….

  • taterearl

    “Crying women give the biggest woody and for a long time I didn’t understand how a girlfriend or my ex-wife could be bawling her eyes out and I just wanted to fuck the shit of her more than almost any other time.”

    There must be something to that…after all if sexual desire wasn’t involved men wouldn’t bother with crying chicks.

  • CapnSav2hoes

    Am I alone in seeing a contradiction here?

    The post and the comments dismiss crying game as a manipulative usage of evolved traits in women–one best left to beta chumps dumb enough to fall for it. Meanwhile, the true alpha atop the dominate hierarchy is to do what exactly? The comments suggest we ignore the crying woman unless we’re really (really really) sure we’ll get laid.

    So I’m wondering, how can you be the dominate in your tribe while at the same not take responsibility for the crying woman?

    Granted, there is great hypocrisy in Feminism and the unequal acceptability of crying. But crying, either from a woman or man, is the antithesis of rationality, the complete breakdown of rational thought. Crying is gibberish.

    If so, wouldn’t solving the crying be the opposite of that: leadership, rational, manly, and dominate?

    It would be digression to discuss the many gradated solutions to solving the crying. I’m just questioning the logic in: being a man = laughing at Capn Savaho with your hands in your pocket.

  • Ryan

    My first wife used to cry her eyes out, sob, gulp air, slap and curse.

    Then I’d fuck her to a shuddering orgasm.

    The pattern was almost exactly the same every time.

    Eventually she attacked me with a knife and a rolling pin.

    I sent her on an out-of-state trip to visit her folks, and then I moved away and did not talk to her for 17 years.

    I still remember the passion but it wasn’t worth spending life in prison or being maimed.

  • YaReally

    “It would be digression to discuss the many gradated solutions to solving the crying. I’m just questioning the logic in: being a man = laughing at Capn Savaho with your hands in your pocket.”

    Because generally she’s crying about stupid shit. Do you stop the world when a 5 year old cries that he doesn’t want to go to bed or that you won’t let him eat cookies for supper?

    No one is saying that when a chick is crying that her family was just killed in a car accident you go “haha shut the fuck up bitch, bend over and spread it!” lol

    But like 99% of the shit women get upset over is retarded (“Jenny at work is such a bitch!”, “I can’t afford that thing I want!”, “I hate my job but don’t want to put in the effort to find a new one!”, “I feel so fat :( meanwhile I’m not going to get on the treadmill and get in shape to fix it I’m just going to complain and feel bad”).

    In caveman terms, a guy who gets swept up in all her retarded drama is too busy dealing with stupid shit to protect the rest of the tribe. :P

  • The One Reason

    Ya, (to the 12:31 one)

    Staying strong in your belief of a woman’s manipulative sob-like behaviour doesn’t work so well if she can convince outsiders of her immeasurable plight and make them apply pressure (in which ever form). You know that she is full of sh1t, she knows she’s full of sh1t (at least to the extent of exaggerating her partial feelings of distress via hamster-spinning) but the knighters take it all as a genuine article and act accordingly.

    And every single of these instances of a beautiful girl/woman crying and obtaining a desired result will reinforce the validity of the approach in her mind.

    Like it has been said, feminism (or, in general, any issue related to the feminine imperative) is only as strong as the men enabling it.

  • itsme

    In caveman terms, a guy who gets swept up in all her retarded drama is too busy dealing with stupid shit to protect the rest of the tribe.

    yep. if men cried over all the little things women cried over, shit would never get done. modern civilization wouldn’t exist.

  • taterearl

    My father struggled with depression but I can only remember one time I ever saw him cry…and that was because he had 2nd and 3rd degree burns on his chest.

  • CapnSav2hoes

    “Do you stop the world when a 5 year old cries that he doesn’t want to go to bed or that you won’t let him eat cookies for supper?”

    This is exactly my point, you teach the kid not to cry. You solve the problem and stop moaning on a message board about how Feminism has you by the balls.

    Help me understand how all these comments are any different than a woman crying.

  • FuriousFerret

    “Help me understand how all these comments are any different than a woman crying.”

    LOL. Figuring out how to deal with sticky situations equals crying about it.

    C’mon you’re that paki lady right?

  • AlphaBeta

    FYI: women crying has been shown to decrease men’s testosterone levels.

    Ever notice that in a street fight, some of the surrounding women start crying? It’s a deeply biological innate reaction to attempt to stop the fight. I’m not aware of any similar response when women fight.

  • Sir Alan

    This is an interesting discussion. I have gotten pretty immune to crying from women myself but it is out of a conscious action to *not* give into it. Still, as someone said when other males are involved, the pressure is on you looking like an aggressor/asshole. It’s the classic “girlfriend cries in public while you stand there looking like a retard” scenario. It takes a pretty strong man to transcend crying used as a tactic of forced submission, especially when that man has been steeped in feminist mantra his entire life.

  • Not Carrie Bradshaw

    As “Not Carrie Bradshaw” quoted at the beginning of this opinion piece, perhaps it may be fitting that I have the last word on this.

    Yes, women cry out due to a million different emotions, but mainly out of anger and frustration and yes, as a covert call for help – mainly from males. Yes, crying is the default position for even the most capable, strong and “independent women because attractive and reproductive age women have never had to “fight with their backs to the wall” – simply being vulnerable and helpless might evoke protective instincts in men, even enemy men – enough to assure survival for another day at least. If it doesn’t work, hey it was worth a shot. Older and less attractive women would have had, all their lives, to “fight their way out of their predicament” the same way men have always had to. Keep doing this and eventually her testosterone levels go up – which helps I suppose.

    Men DO get help and support (usually other men)- but they tend not to cry to obtain help. Maybe out of intense and excruciating pain – lying with their bodies blown apart on the battlefields – any kind of practical help would be useless then, only comfort from another human in their last painful moments. I don’t know what kind of woman would feel contempt under these circumstances – ones who are not human I suppose.

    When men cry due to devastating loss, they are NOT asking for comfort or help,though they may appreciate any comfort offered from those closest to them. For them I think the tears represent unfinished business. The shock of the loss and the unpreparedness for it. The processing of these emotions in order to settle whatever outstanding issues created by the loss. I don’t think men would cry about the loss of their loved ones if they knew in advance it was going to happen and could prepare for it emotionally or otherwise.

    Finally a related issue to this is the issue of prayer. Men almost never pray because the only power they believe in is the power within themselves, and invested in their own strengths and bodies. If they pray, it is pretty much to summon their own strength, pretty much like crying I suppose.

  • Weep with those who weep. | Sunshine Mary

    […] his essay The Crying Game, Rollo Tomassi quotes one of his readers, Hero, who […]

  • Mac

    I know this guy who is a personal trainer and looks like he could bench press three of me, but this guy cry’s at the drop of a hat. Do you think he is valued by women for being in touch with his emotions…? Quite the contrary. They mock and ridicule him. He is a “wimp” in their eyes. I know because I’ve heard them slam him on many occasions. They say he is “mentally unstable”… Interesting that they don’t consider themselves to be.

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