Even for the most abject Beta man there comes significant points in his life when he makes a Red Pill connection – a point at which, despite his feminine-primary socialization and for all his own participation in a system that deceives him, his circumstance or a trauma rattles him into a state of clarity.
As I wind my way through the Preventive Medicine timeline in the second draft of the next book I come to understand the periods at which these moments of clarity most commonly occur for Beta men.
Early in life that prompt may be the sting of having a high school sweetheart break up with him before she goes off to college. In or after college it might be the undoing of a long distance relationship he thought for sure his soul-mate would help him dutifully preserve. Later it maybe the realization of how much of his personal potential he truly lost after investing so much in a wife who divorced him and separated him from his children.
Not all of these events are as traumatic as this, but it’s during these Red Pill moments of clarity a man begins to see a hint of the code in the Matrix; a suspicion that maybe what he’s believed about how intergender relations should be really haven’t been directed toward his best interest.
So it was with a certain amount of interest I took notice of a man named Stephen when he petitioned advice from a mouthpiece of the Feminine Imperative this week. Though he doesn’t yet realize it, Stephen is at a Red Pill moment of clarity in his life, and as most Beta men are won’t to do, he seeks answers from the same feminine-primary trough that’s kept him in a state of patient stasis until his yet unrealized potential has now become useful to the Feminine Imperative.
Rather than simply allow the feminine crabs drag him back down into the barrel (until his next Red Pill moment of clarity), I’m going to re-post his plea for understanding here and give him (with the help of my esteemed commenters) the Red Pill truth he deserves at so critical a juncture in his life.
Lately I’ve been thinking about my college dating experiences. I’m 28 years old now and I’ve noticed a very odd phenomenon lately. I’m getting noticed (and approached) by women that never would’ve given me the time of day when I was in college. Successful, accomplished women! One in particular is incredibly hot, but they all are attractive. I am baffled by this. You may laugh, but this is making me extremely frustrated and stressed out.
Reading your blog has offered some explanations. I’m an analytical guy, so I’ve been very impressed with the social science you weave into your writing, and the research about how 28 is the ideal male age for women helped to explain what might be going on. But I still can’t figure out what’s going on, with me or with them. I feel emotions like resentment and suspicion, as well as desire, but I’m not at all flattered. I find myself unable to respond in any way, positively or negatively. I feel paralyzed.
Sometimes I think I’m just offended. These are the very same women who rejected me time and again in college. I mean, I know they’re not the same but…they’re the same. I wanted relationships (I tried casual sex…EPIC FAIL), they didn’t want me. My one serious college girlfriend cheated on me with her professor. I was really, really hurt, felt like a chump, etc.
To put it in a HUS context, the [college girls] preferred alpha males (I’m definitely a beta, introverted, overly intense, with a baby face.) Or maybe they were reluctant to get involved during college because they wanted to be free to move on after graduation and not be tied down.The thing is, I don’t think I’ve changed all that much. Frankly, I couldn’t change if I wanted to, even if it meant getting these women. I may have come out of my shell a little, but I honestly don’t think it’s me that’s different. It’s them, and I don’t think I like the difference. I think I’m the consolation prize. I think they still want the alphas but they’ve given up. Time to settle. I’m offended. I don’t trust these women.
Am I too proud? Getting my revenge? Guarded from past humiliations? Or have I just grown up and learned from my experiences?
Stephen
Stephen, the moment of Red Pill clarity you’re now experiencing is coming from your newly realized status. The women you describe being attracted to you (different than being aroused by you) are entering what I call The Epiphany Phase – the point at which their sexual market value begins to decay in earnest while a man’s begins his greatest potential to capitalize upon his own SMV as it steadily (should) increase.
This is a precarious time for women, usually the years between 28 and 30, where she makes attempts to reassess the last decade of her life. Women’s psychological rationalization engine (a.k.a. the Hamster) begins a furious effort to account for, and explain her reasonings for not having successfully secured a long term monogamous commitment from as Alpha a man as her attractiveness could attain for her. Even women married prior to this phase will go through some variation of self-doubt, or self-pity in dealing with the hypergamic uncertainty of her choice of husband (“Is he really the best I could do?”)
It’s during this stage that women will make radical shifts in the prioritization of what prerequisite traits qualify as ‘attractive’ in a man and attempt to turn over a new leaf by changing up their behaviors to align with this new persona they create for themselves. Since the physicality, sexual prowess and Alpha dominance that made up her former arousal cues in a Man aren’t as forthcoming from men as when she was in her sexual prime, she reprioritizes them with (presumed) preferences for more intrinsic male attributes that stress dependability, provisioning capacity, humor, intellect, and esoteric definitions of compatibility and intimacy.
Where you find yourself now, Stephen, is in the midst of these women coming to terms with their waning SMV and the increasing effort it takes women of that age bracket to effectively compete in a sexual marketplace where younger women simply outclass them with every new year that she doesn’t consolidate on a man who represents a good long term provisioning prospect.
As you suggest, these are the same women who found you sexually invisible when they were younger and enjoying the same SMV peak with the relatively more Alpha men they wanted to have short term sexual experiences with. These women were the younger competition they now find threatening their sexual selection today.
Are they exactly the same individual women? I don’t know for sure from your outline, but even if they aren’t, the Schedules of Mating script women follow is so common and predictable that they may as well effectively be the same women to you – and this is precisely what your subconscious instinct is attempting to relate to your conscious-self now.
…I honestly don’t think it’s me that’s different. It’s them, and I don’t think I like the difference.
Unless you’ve made a drastic improvement to your physical appearance or you’ve become more Game aware and have changed your intersexual outlook and behavior the obvious answer is, it is these women who’ve changed.
Now the question remains, why?
What has changed in these women’s lives that prompted this dramatic shift in how they’ve re-prioritized what they now find sexually acceptable? What is it about you in the now (and not back then) that makes you ideal for that acceptability?
Aunt Giggles wants to convince you to let bygones be bygones and follow along with the script the Feminine Imperative expects of you by shaming you for not forgiving a woman of her past indiscretions…
No doubt the girls at college rewarded the males who were early developers and exhibited masculine qualities then. Why take that personally?
I’ll tell you why, because the men they were interested in short term sexual prospects with then weren’t being asked to make anything resembling the life changing personal investment in these ‘reformed’ women she hopes you’ll man-up and be a ‘Better Beta’ for. Those men got the milk for free because the cow milked herself and gave it to them, gladly.
Now that’s a hell of a proposition for a guy who’s played by what his prior feminine conditioning would have him believe were the ‘rules’ for as long as you have. Is it really that far a stretch to want to protect the investment of your personal potential, not to mention your yet unrealized peak SMV potential, with women who now hope you’ll be sex, love and desire starved enough for the past 10 or so years to look past all the short term sex they had with more Alpha men in the Party Years of their early to mid 20s?
Maturation of Beta Bucks
Aunt Sue has always ridden the fence when it comes to acknowledging the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks nature of women’s sexual strategy. When it suits her narrative she agrees with Hypergamy, when it doesn’t, well, you’ll never know because those posts get scrubbed from her blog.
Fortunately you don’t need her input on Hypergamy to understand women’s pluralistic sexual strategy – there are many, much higher profile women than Susan Walsh who openly and publicly endorse exactly the strategy these women (who are suddenly attracted to you now) are using:
“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead
And since we’re interested in the research perhaps we can ask Aunt Sue why it is nearly half of women in relationships retain a ‘Plan B’ guy:
Whether he’s the one that got away, the office husband, or a gym partner, chances are he is the “Plan B” man you fantasize about running away with. Like an insurance policy, this man is the handpicked boyfriend or husband replacement you have on standby once “plan A” starts to break down on you. According to a survey conducted by OnePoll.com, an online market research company, half of women who are married or in relationships have a Plan B man on standby who is “ready and waiting” because of “unfinished business.”
You see Stephen, it’s not those “Red Pill, Dark Triad cads” who perpetuate the “Beta Bux” theory; we don’t need to, it’s modern women who proudly, triumphantly, openly confirm their own Hypergamy and blatantly expect you to comply with it by default. In fact they’ll shame you, as all the commenters on HUS are doing now, for even questioning your expected role in affirming their sexual strategy.
So, with the knowledge of this new Red Pill truth, openly confirmed by the very same women who are ‘attracted’ to you now, how do you intend to benefit from it? Will you stick your head back in the blue pill sand of HUS, or will you become curious about the broader truths of the Red Pill. Just remember, now you’re aware of a Red Pill truth, there’s no going back.
However, bear in mind, you’re 28, the women you’re dealing with now have had a lot longer than just the 4 years they may have spent in high school to decide if you were attractive to them – these women have had the better part of the past 10 years and the benefit of experiencing the peak of their SMV potential up to this point in life.
Aunt Giggles’ would have you believe your new found SMV is the result some maturation process or change in your personal conditions when in fact it’s the very calculated result of an proudly confirmed, pre-designed sexual strategy. And it becomes really insidious when the operative feminine social convention in play accuses you of wanting “revenge” for acknowledging the same strategy that these women do openly already; you could be cowed into the fear of remaining alone, but that’s a myth to bust in another post.
Commenters, perhaps I’ve missed something here.
Please, feel free to post your advice for Stephen in the always open, never moderated and entirely uncensored comment section only here at The Rational Male.
November 7th, 2014 at 1:14 pm
I just went to HUS’s article (http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2014/11/03/relationshipstrategies/where-were-you-when-i-was-still-unattractive/ for anyone wondering) and the explanations given by the women and white knights there actually impressed me because they conveniently demonstrate so many things:
– The most important point is that the whole scenario is defined by the feminine imperative, this point really overrides and defines all others. It’s a form of thought control. If you define what was, what is and what could be according to your imperative then you can make yourself look right. It’s like a way more sophisticated version of 1984’s thought control.
– Women keep chiming in with their stories of how they too enjoy more attention from the other sex now that they’ve fixed some aspect of themselves (and they’ll try to clutch at Stephan doing the same thing to support their argument). What they don’t mention is the difference in SMV between men and women. Women START OUT being arousing to men and go downhill from there. A women who made herself look better would’ve had at least as much attention when she was younger if she weren’t ugly then.
– Stephan describes himself as not having changed but the women say that is what he has. They are literally conjuring up the idea that Stephan is now more alpha out of thin air.
– They accuse men of doing the same thing women are doing if they can’t make a point or they accuse men of starting it. For example they say MEN who perpetuate the “beta bux” myth. In the next sentence, Susan says that only one of beta bux or post-wall women overestimating their SMV can be true, which coming from her can only be a case of willing, studied ignorance. She’s trying to take pieces out of Rollo’s words and put them against each other but she’s changing the context that the words were made for in the first place, for example – her comparison is false because post-wall women are DEFINED BY (other than visible outer signs ie. fading looks) a realisation that their SMV is under fire, that doesn’t put that in opposition to beta bux, it supports it. By now I’m thinking women have a natural talent for projection and rationalization.
– Men who fear being single like women do are beta men. They are so because a man with options by definition cannot fear being single, since he has options. If you’ve never had any success with women and you’re a plugged-in blue pill, of course you will fear being single! the leaps and haphazard logic she’s making here are just astounding, and that’s before I even begin talking about what she’s implying by saying/implying that men and women have the same problems.
– Susan is selecting the cases that support her point. The two ugly ducklings who find each other at age 28 and live happily ever after.
– Susan talks as if women have no idea what they’re doing with men. If epiphany-phase women are giving signs of being hooked on you, they must genuinely want to fuck you! because women are warm, fuzzy creatures and would never do something like try to push someone’s buttons to get what they want.
– It’s made out like Stephan can turn into a winner if he takes one of these leftover women, or rather that he already IS one because they want him now. They’re trying to prop up his ego to get him to go along with their imperative. Don’t worry Stephan, these girls finally understand that the person they really felt their tingles for was you all along! they were just confused by biker-Rob with the skull tattoo, but I’m all yours now baby.
Overall It’s pretty cool to see the three female weapons as I see them – the anointed trinity of Female Imperative, Rationalization and Projection – in action. They do it so well that you wouldn’t see it for what it is unless you’re familiar with something like Rollo’s blog, which is what’s going on with most men. Unfortunately for these women we have a failsafe, which is to observe what choices women make instead of listening to why they themselves say they make them (assuming she’s a rare woman who holds herself accountable for her own choices, that is).
November 7th, 2014 at 1:19 pm
Molly the bubbly girly-girl head IUP cheerleader took her marketing degree and other assets to DC in 1985, having naturally snagged her congressman’s attention, and who knows who else’s (here, I’m asking: who knows?) For four full years the poor but adventurousyoung gal did something or other amongst the rich and powerful in Washington. Eventually she got an actual job at Alex Brown in 1989, and met Milo in 1990. They were photographed together several times, albeit not necessarily together together,before his becoming separated from his wife in 1994. Theyweren’t an official item until the divorce, by which time Milo had *already* bought her a seats in a couple of boardrooms.
November 7th, 2014 at 1:20 pm
And one last thing. They define men in convenient stereotypes. As Rollo has said before (he usually has), men didn’t invent terms like nice guy and jerk – they got them from women. The guy that arouses them isn’t who they really want (that’s Stephan!) but can’t lock down for whatever reason (if they even want to, I personally think that locking down an alpha is something they want to do for secondary reasons like scarcity – it’s not why they seek him out in the first place unlike beta bux), he’s the “Player” that women are entitled to “make mistakes” with because they were “naive”. Conveniently they can make these mistakes before most men can and be free of blame for it, but MEN who make “mistakes” like only going for the best girls their SMV can provide them with at age 30 are “immature”. And it looks so believable too without picking things apart.
November 7th, 2014 at 1:23 pm
@jf12
“How did it happen that lesbians are in the driver’s seat of cultural norms?”
This is a question worth examining. I do not know the answer. Perhaps Rollo can provide some insight. Homosexuality has been worn as a chip on the shoulder of the FI for at least 35 years in our culture.
Some facts..
Homo sapiens are a species typically exhibiting sexual dimorphism defined as a phenotypic difference between males and females of the same species; there are obvious differences between the males and females of the species. The primary biologic sexual differences are the presence and absence of gender specific reproductive organs and hormonal differences. More obvious differences are secondary sex characteristics, such as body size and shape differences, vocal frequency differentials, muscular disparity, ornamentation and behavior. Typical sexual behavior of the species is heterosexual.
There is absolutely no credible empirical evidence supporting any proposition that homosexual behavior is caused by any physiological phenomena or condition. If there is, specifically what chemical biological compound, chromosome, gene or other physiological phenomena is attributable? To be credible such attribution must be scientifically empirically certified by a respected credible source and include the dates and discoverers name, credentials, methods used and verification process employed, otherwise it is nothing but bullshit as is typical. Such phenomena could exist, however it is deceptive to claim any actually exist, unless honestly discovered and proved.
There exists no empirical evidence that homosexual behavior is induced by specific psychological conditioning. Homosexual acts are performed by individuals involved in all cultures and sub cultures, childhood experiential conditions, socioeconomic groups, religious affiliations, races, professions and ethnicities or lack thereof. No common experience or environmental condition has ever been empirically identified that correlates to the induction of homosexual behavior. If there is any such condition or experience what is it; what condition, action, environment, word, tone of voice or the lack thereof universally induces homosexual behavior? To be credible conclusions must be scientifically empirically certified by a respected credible source and include the dates and discoverers name, credentials, methods used and verification process employed. Such a condition may possibly exist, however it is deceptive to claim any actually exist, unless discovered and proved.
WITHOUT EXCEPTION, homosexual behavior involves display or feigned mockery of male or female characteristic differences where the practitioners display or fake the opposite genders imitable sex characteristics. This display or fakery is without exception theatricalized to varying degrees. For example, male and female names are typically substituted respectively. Have you ever wondered why homosexual behavior without exception publically involves males feigning female characteristics or females feigning male characteristics? If the practitioners are “innately” “homosexual”, wouldn’t it be far more effective and desirable to them to behave in the opposite manner? If homosexuality is the result of same sex attraction, then wouldn’t it make far more sense for the practitioners to act more like their own sex and exaggerate their own sex traits? If homosexuality involves members of the same sex being attracted to their specific genders traits, then It would be far more logical for homosexuals to display and exaggerate their specific gender traits, not the opposite gender traits. If homosexual men are not attracted to girls then why would they be attracted to a man who acts like and attempts to look like a girl; a man who is substituting for a girl?
The words “gay”, “homosexual” and “lesbian” imply that homosexuality is a state of being. That implication is very misleading and dupes the naïve into thinking it is something different. The fact is there is nothing indicating such a state of being other than the behavior itself. All facts pertaining to homosexuality indicate it is NOTHING MORE THAN A BEHAVIOR. To understand this, you need to be able to differentiate facts from lies.
“Homosexuality” exists only in a sociological and political context. Most often today, the public presentation of homosexuality includes overt or implied persecutory threats against anyone displaying the slightest nuance of discomfort or objection to the behavior or its presentation. Anyone who does not endorse homosexuality today is maliciously defamed and characterized as being uncomfortable or objectionable. Hence the malicious misapplication of the word “homophobic” which actually means “fear of the same” This word is perversely employed to imply “fear of homosexuals” or imply general paranoia. This is a frivolous effort to deceive and fallaciously claim that those who do not endorse homosexuality are afraid of homosexuals or generally paranoid and therefore social misfits. Real fear cannot be artificially instilled in this manner and approximately 97 percent of the population (who choose not to engage in homosexual acts) will never be considered misfits by the majority. That 97 percent IS the majority. The approximately 3 percent of the population who do choose to engage in homosexual acts will always do so at the risk of being considered misfits on some level. Their behavior is not typical of the species and a real possibility is very likely that they suffer “heterophobia”, hence their homosexual behavior. Why else would gay men “dick” up another man substituting as a girl and why else would lesbian women “Butch” up to substitute as a man?
November 7th, 2014 at 1:29 pm
Excellent breakdown salemsuwareh.
Of course now one of the HUSsies will write you off as a balding, obese, basement-dwelling middle-age red piller loser who thinks 22 y.o. women want his cock, so they’re correct afterall
November 7th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
Long time lurker here. My first clue about SMV? In 1987, finishing Engineering at University. It was a hard slog for me. I was a blue pill, also orbiter of some chicks I had a crush on. But misery -financial and emotional – has a way of toughing you up. I never lost sight of the objective: Graduate with an engineering degree. My best friend studied in History, went to parties and was a bassman in a band. Lots of pussy for him, but he never threw any my way.
The coming end of University life hits everybody. People think ahead for a job, end of party life etc. The smarter women also see the end of the carousel and try to secure a male.
One night I’m sitting alone at a table at the University bar I used to hang at. Up comes this (smart) chick that I have known for about 8 years. Has not spoken to me for about 3 years. Invites herself over to my table. Starts chatting about this and that.
That’s when I had a bit of an epiphany. I’m 25, graduating Aerospace Engineering in a few weeks. I’m already a pilot. Hockey & soccer player, not a bad looking dude after all. Four years ago I was just some nobody nerdy engineering type. Now I’m the guy holding the cards. She’s about a 6, maybe a 7 with war paint. Smart too. But she’s going off to work pretty soon, in a field full of women (Administration) and she knows about the wall.
My plan was by then to join the Air Force (which I did) and really get to enjoy myself. I had no fucking need of woman to tie me down, not after I was treated like a leper by most of them over the years.
That’s pretty much what I told her, but I don’t remember the exact words. I probably didn’t have to say a word. The dont give a fuck attitude was there and the whiskey did the talking.
Three years later I visit the old place. She’s living with Mr bassman, who is, of course, unemployed. She looks pregnant. I keep my mouth shut and learn she isn’t… She’s just getting fat.
As of this writing they are still together, childless, unmarried and he’s put on lots of weight because he stoped exercising. Not sure what she looks like now.
I waited until I was 35 to get married. To a nice, traditional Chinese woman. At 48, she sometimes gets carded at the liquor store when she buys my booze & beer.
Young guys, listen to my example. Get your degree, tough it out during the bad years. Keep your eyes on the prize. Tehn live your life and do no ever, ever marry a western woman.
November 7th, 2014 at 2:38 pm
Marriage should NEVER be a mans goal. Man should have only two goals with women. Goal one: pump. Goal two: dump. Marriage should only be a consequence of pumping the best fit who properly serves your needs and you must keep her on the edge of the dumper. If she doesn’t like it, pump her in the dumper.
November 7th, 2014 at 2:41 pm
Game, red pill, whatever, does not turn unattractive man into alpha. Women are machines, tuned to spot good genes and ensure that those genes are brought into the next generation. When you have them you have women lining up for you..they have no choice. They are nothing but a bodies ruled by emotions and those very emotions are designed to fill their vaginas with sperm of an attractive man.
Again, women have no choice in that. All their talks, bullshit, emotional games are here to cover this truth…women are very simple in this aspect. Therefore they need betas to be kept in the dark to provide and sacrifice for women, to comfort them and to help them raise children of an alpha, directly or indirectly, if necessary.
Red pill or knowledge about women is priceless stuff but its power in ensuring countless flow of females for you is limited.
1. Mgtow if practised dutifully threatens the basic strategy of women – beta bucks. Women NEED betas working their asses off, and producing resources, so that our ladies can use them for them and their children,
2. Once beta realizes that he is here for the fool and slave, he might lose his motivation to provide and sacrifice for women. She has her pick of alphas but most woman will eventually need their slave. So there has to be someone who still has the motivation to work, provide and protect. Who thinks that he will earn her respect and admiration that way.
But our beta might no longer be there, after he had witnessed too many of “alpha fucks” in his life. He might turn to escorts, start pump and dump himself, or drop off and disappear from the pool of men with provisioning capacity which basically the same – he is no longer fulfilling his role for women.
Stephen has realized something…he has not digested the knowledge yet, but he doubts the motivation of women. He begins understanding his role of a provider and..he does not like it.
November 7th, 2014 at 2:41 pm
Apologies for Molly’s timeline errors. Evidently she was in DC prior to graduation, maybe summers and holidays I don’t know. She was interviewed at Alex Brown prior to graduation spring 1989 and started work there in the fall.
November 7th, 2014 at 3:02 pm
OT. When the book Trim Healthy Mama book came out and began making the rounds of churches, yes some women lost some weight, but it was their husbands who actually got substantially thinner whether they needed to or not. As we all should know, when mama’s unhappy then she makes everyone else unhappy. And when mama is dieting then she makes everyone else diet too.
Not knocking THM though; the diet works.
November 7th, 2014 at 3:27 pm
re: what’s the point in being the Good Man, as opposed to bad boy or whatever. Tell me when the clarity becomes bracing.
Teh GMP has launched a Marriage Rx initiative, because teh women there know evidently a man can’t get a word in edgewise in his marriage or on a website ostensibly about men.
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hlg-marriage-advice-cant-get-anywhere-else/
Luckily for any man who writes in to complain about his lousy wife, the counseling team of Hilary, Jenny, Sue, Shannon, Jean, Alexis, and Heather will help him see *his* errors. Heather has also brought in Bryce for this purpose, because Bryce specializes in teaching women how to make men weaker and more vulnerable.
It would be funnier if it weren’true.
November 7th, 2014 at 3:42 pm
It’s so funny that on GMP they have this whole page on which it says that men would get help but on the bottom it says:
“The blogosphere is full of advice mostly geared towards women and largely ignores same sex couples.”
And again, help for everyone, except straight men especially the evil white ones.
This is sick
November 7th, 2014 at 3:48 pm
” . . . a man with options by definition cannot fear being single, since he has options. ”
One of my options os solitude, which I rather enjoy. I’m good company.
Perhaps those who fear solitude are not such good company.
November 7th, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Stephen – You are well on your way. But don’t just listen to the “manosphere”, also look at what actual scientists have to say. There are a number of really great sites and podcasts out there which are run by non-game purveyors. You will learn a lot here, but there is huge bias and much mythology in the world of “game” that is laughed out of the room by real scientists. Just google “debunking pick up artists and game” and you’ll be on your way. The mating grounds is run by a natural alpha who gives lots of advice about hooking up with women, but he also has scientists on his podcasts every week. He has an axe to grind too, and can be a real dick, but some of the interviews he does with real biologists and other scientists are quite compelling. He did a great one on debunking game and pickup artists. I also read Chris Ryan’s Sex at Dawn, which helped me look at these issues more from a meta level. The Red Queen is another great book on all this from a purely scientific POV. But be very wary of people in the manosphere who cite lots of “science” but aren’t scientists as most are misusing the information and don’t even know they are doing so.
People here will jump on me for saying the above or linking to thematinggrounds – i could fucking care less. You see, as I’m about to tell you, being a selfish prick has real benefits in this world. I’m only out to share my experiences with you and “help” you in the way that I think makes sense. Not to aggrandize Rollo or “game”.
That said, none of that means you haven’t been conned into accepting gynocentric cultural ideas like monogamy, romance, courtly love and chivalry which all set up women and “the one” as the ultimate prize in life for men – with you as a vassal. It also has one utterly misunderstand female sexual behavior, and it’s in this area that guys like Rollo are so helpful. Rollo is really more about Blue Pill/Beta deprogramming than “game” per se and in this you must persist if you are to gain clarity and evolve.
My journey had me very angry for a while but that went away and was replaced with an appreciation of what women are up to. Aunt Giggles was right in one regard – don’t resent women for fucking who turns them on, who they find attractive. You do the same thing (or would if you could), as all humans do. Just get that it’s no more meaningful than your next door neighbors dog humping a stray who walks into the yard. It’s just being horny – that’s really all that women are doing. And in today’s world they are much more free to pursue short term mating without shame. It really is nothing personal. Now it is true that women reinforce you being a “good guy” and a beta pussy, but now that you know you only have yourself to blame for it if you don’t stop.
Your new path? Become a selfish prick. Put yourself first in life – everywhere in your life. With your family, your friends, your job, your community – stop being a doormat. I bet if you are like me that you’ll find this uncomfortable at first but trust me, it comes quite quickly once you seriously set yourself at it as it’s a much more enjoyable way to live and a great way to get what you want out of life.
You will also find once you get over the anger that the only thing to do if you want to actually bang young, hot women is to improve yourself. I’m in the gym seriously now and putting on muscle and leaning out is the best way to improve your attractiveness. Do basic thinks like attend to you appearance in terms of grooming and what you wear (marginal imrovements but little things can add up and pushing yourself from a 6 to a 7 will be noticeable for you in terms of who you attract). There are real limits but I think that for men physical fitness can make a big difference. Put on some upper body muscle mass. Also, notice how you behave with women you are interested in. Are you always ‘qualifying’ with them? Trying to prove your value? Instead concentrate on whether you are attracted to them and if they are giving you any indications of interest like you are getting from your peer women now, and if she’s not signaling interest, move on to the next as quickly as you can.
As for your peer women who are coming at you now, I say you go fuck every last one of them. Pump and dump and laugh your ass off the whole time. Lie to them, tell them you could fall in love with them and want to have babies with them and they will let you use them like farm animals (don’t make those promises to the young one’s as that only turns them off because they are looking for short term mating – old guys like me who are smart use that to our advantage). Your goal should be to become that guy that the women who’ve friend-zoned you complained about in the past, who didn’t call or lied to them or used them, etc.
Also make them be dirty whores in bed with you, as if they are truly in a wall-hitting crisis, they will do just about anything that a man wants. Leave them sticky and confused, and maybe let them pay for dinner or have them cook for you. Do this for the next 10 years before you even consider being monogamous. You are in your sexual prime and in 10 years you will still be able to have a relationship with many 33 year old women who are quite attractive. But for now, if you work it and have a high enough SMV, you may still be able tap some of the young hotties. You can also use the wall-hitters as sexual practice. Learn to be dominant and dirty in bed. Learn to enjoy it and learn to focus on your enjoyment instead of their’s.
Most importantly, always have at least 3 women spinning at once. Don’t ever let yourself be focused on one woman at a time. And center your life around yourself. What are your interests, your goals, your talents and your priorities? Get self-centered and frame your life as a self-improvement project. You’ll be happier, more stable and feel stronger than you ever have. And when a women starts to aggravate you or rent space in your head or makes you feel guilty or bad in any way? Remember one word. “Next”.
The biggest surprise you’ll experience is that women won’t treat you nearly as badly as you think they will once you become a selfish prick. You see, at some level they recognize this in themselves. In many ways they snicker at and loathe betas while they grovel and try to earn their affections. They never respected you for being a “good guy” in the first place, so forget it once and for all.
Last. Don’t bother responding as I don’t follow comments here because there are a lot of douche bags on this site who fancy themselves as experts on all this and constantly try and sort me out and it’s just not worth the time or aggro to deal with it. See the rest of you next post and best of luck Stephen.
November 7th, 2014 at 3:52 pm
Sounds like we have had similar paths Stephen. While I have always been pretty good with women, I didn’t learn about the red pill until age 28 also.
The dark feelings of guilt will pass. I know you’ve probably been told that your sexual prime is behind you… That’s a lie. It’s time to enjoy yourself if only you can learn how to properly handle your life and women. Don’t get suckered into some relationship you have no desire to be in. Read this blog and learn about game. Learn how to take control of your life by not wasting so much time on becoming the man the feminine imperative wants you to be. Ironically, once you leave the feminine imperative behind and learn to adopt the masculine imperative, the attention from women will increase ten fold. And the best part is… You’ll be stress free about it.
November 7th, 2014 at 4:04 pm
Lets just make one thing clear about The Mating Grounds, it’s Tucker Max’s lame attempt at commercializing the Purple Pill after having gotten his girlfriend pregnant and needed a way to generate revenue.
Furthermore he’s a consummate plagiarist.
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/07/27/tucker-max-defamed-roosh/
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/07/15/the-mating-grounds-podcast-review/
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/03/17/mating-grounds-geoffrey-miller-tucker-max-hilarity-ensues/#comment-1291564856
http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/10/14/jordan-harbinger-art-charm-podcast-scam/
Other than that I don’t disagree with Glenn’s sentiments.
November 7th, 2014 at 4:23 pm
The biggest things I can say based on life experience are 1) How you are there is a woman who loves men just like you. The problem is most of the men who are less attractive have the least ability to go out and find that girl. 2). She has to be sexually attracted to you, this is non negotiable-if not she is always settling and you will always find her with a headache when it comes time to have sex. I’ve gotten old enough that I’ve had some women fake like they like me to extract $$. Its so obvious, I don’t know how other men fall for it. A little more effort and now I’m dating a stunning 25 year old venezuelan girl, whose lid I flip on a constant basis..why settle for a money grubbing security seeking faker?
November 7th, 2014 at 5:11 pm
anonG:
Yes, in that sense you’re right, that is a different game.
In such a case his mindset could be seen as rather straightforwardly red-pill, helped by his financial and social acumen and undoubtedly the ability to replicate the relationship with another (if gradually fading) beauty. In the dualist thinking of either you game her or she’s gaming you, she clings to the security of his assets and is certainly willing to follow his lead. And if he can shrug off the occasional side-fucks she might get and keep the big picture of maintaining the appearances in general intact, that’s for him a rewarding, if somewhat transactional, arrangement.
But how many men outside a pick of truly cool-headed men in such a financial position can keep the want for True Love and Loving Mother of My Children out of the equation. And therein lies the problem in most of the BB cases, a man cannot help feeling the need for a “meaningful” relationship (at least as he sees and feels entitled – a dangerous word, but I use it anyway – for) and can easily be jolted out of his security. So much for “manning up”.
Undoubtedly the men you’re referring to can also keep themselves out of the minefield of a legally and financially binding commitment, whereas I guess mostly the BB arrangements lead to a point where a man can lose heavily, in minimum, in financial and emotional level.
Realists versus romantics.
November 7th, 2014 at 6:46 pm
As near as I understand it, Tucker Max’s parental fortune enabled him to extend his rich-boy bad-boy ways, basically making the frat college lifestyle last for extra decade. He basically spent his twenties on wine women and song, and he had a lot of fun while it lasted. His life was all about fun fun fun to the Max. The morality of it all is bad, of course, but even the Bible says the pleasures of sin are for a season.
And then it all collapsed and creditors were hounding him. Then in his mid30s he decided to reinvent himself, but not as the guy who is ashamed and repentant for having done bad stuff in his 20s. Instead, he claims disingenuously to NOT have been having fun when he was drinking and carousing. One reason we can’t believe him is that in every one of his podcasts and interviews there’s always reminiscing “Remember that time when you and those three girls were naked in the wrong hottub and then the owner …” “Yeah, boy, those were the days.”
November 7th, 2014 at 6:54 pm
Actually Tucker made a grand display of this shame and repent for his lifestyle as well as his previous books very publicly on a TV talk show about 4 years ago.
November 7th, 2014 at 8:00 pm
re: shame.
Ok, but it is a distinction with a difference, to me. Was he ashamed of having been bad morally, or was he ashamed it didn’t work out? Did he repent because it was bad morally to have had such pleasure in being bad, or did he repent because he’s redefined his old life as unpleasurable?
November 7th, 2014 at 8:44 pm
Stephen you’re not a consolation prize. Don’t sell yourself short ever.
Rather than focusing on the what it is these women want from you, focus on what you want from them. Just because they have expressed an interest in you doesn’t mean you have to entertain it. The type of woman you would like to be in a relationship with or the kind of relationship you want to have with women is entirely up to you. If it’s a relationship you want learn to recognize a woman of good character. That comes from practice and sharpening your instincts. There is no rule book for that because everyone is and wants something different. That’s not to say the information here isn’t useful it can be. Take from it what benefits you. Learn from it and make it your own.
There’s two cents from a 30 something post wall dame, if you’ll accept it.
Best of luck
November 7th, 2014 at 10:29 pm
@ The One Reason: I suspect that the men I had in mind were once the type of romantics you’re describing, and came to a more transactional realism the hard way.
November 8th, 2014 at 8:41 am
I agree with Newlyaloof on all 6 pieces of advice. Live simply, you’ll be happier and don’t buy into the media BS
November 8th, 2014 at 2:39 pm
BuenaVista
“Look out below, Stephen, you’re unlikely to enjoy the fruits of stability and comfort, because once the children are established, or graduated to prep school or college, the wife (if she remains reasonably fit and attractive) will be bombing you with her unmet needs. Feelings justify anything to a middle-aged woman with options.”
My experience supports as well. Both as the Beta (“we just got together so young; we grew apart”) and now as the AF. Like Stephen, I’ve hit the radar of epiphany and post-wall women quite suddenly, though the suddenness is of course due to my red-pill awareness and the relativity of simply being a self-contained 40-something man with six-pack abs and swimmers shoulders. The ebbing tide reveals the relative alpha.
For women coming out of those various forms of BB in which their needs went unmet: dead marriages, quasi-marriages of cohabitation, LTR’s that failed to transact into marriage, etc. I’m the kind of hawt that they really deserved; reminiscent of some former alpha beau who laid it proper but melted away into bittersweet delusions of what could have been.
Never mind that most of those AF of old are probably driving sensible cars to some cube-farm from their appropriately appointed suburban tract home staying late at work just to minimize the time the old lady can make him miserable. Digress.
Now those sepia daydreams, the edges dogeared from too many years of fondling in her private moments, fuel her desire to go back and reclaim what she gave-up to live this life that failed her in so many ways. So I indulge this desire. It takes remarkably little effort on my end.
Regardless, emerging from the BB to reclaim the AF before its too late is a tell that the hamster buries deep in the cedar shavings but is as obvious as the sunrise to me now. She emerges from the ashes of her BB phase a new woman, but can’t help but to to rebuild the pyre and nest upon it. Of course: it will burn again.
In every case there seems to be a window of some weeks before the “nothing serious” phase becomes the desire to harvest my seed (“I want to have your babies”), co-opt the hand-picked fruits of my labours (“I love your style”); they implore me, in afterglow and pillow-talk, to splinter all that makes me their AF into the kindling for their next pyre. The alpha f*cks bleed into their desire for provisioning too easily.
The projection is strong: don’t I want to grow old with someone? As if that wasn’t part of her prior deal with the BB guy who is now hunkered in his man-cave running through 10 years of marital game film wondering WTF just happened.
So given tight game in perpetuity is necessary regardless of the commitment and the commitment is not durable enough to assuage her “evolving needs”, so I find it most difficult to conceptualize myself both as her alpha and as her “equal” in that grand mirage. Na, I’ll take my chances arbitraging my relative alpha.
Besides, these women, my “peers” (because equal age means equal SMV) seem so inclined to iterate through the AF-BB-AF, that who am I to deny them this important phase in their ongoing actualization? And since they all seem to run the same pattern every snap, my soft zone coverage seems appropriate; they want to return to AF so badly, it even seems aggressive to them. The pick-sixes rack up. Catch and release indeed.
November 8th, 2014 at 4:06 pm
Razorwire,
Great comments. Incisive analysis in poetic language.
November 8th, 2014 at 6:24 pm
Stephen –
Despite what anyone tells you, you gut level instincts are the single best guide for your behavior here. If they’re ringing alarm bells in your mind, then you should listen to them.
You’re right; you’re being set up, not as a romantic ideal and life partner, but as a shmuck. I’ve been that shmuck, both in marriage and post divorce relationships. Let me tell, thank your lucky stars that your internal gut-radar is working well at your age, because that will save you a lot of grief in the future.
You are being looked as nothing more than a bankroll to finance her life, because the real guy that she craves has no intention at all in taking up that role. Whereas before you were invisible to the women who are now pursuing you, now you’re Provider Material. At your age, and at optimal physical, emotional and financial condition, you are the prize to every woman in your life. That’s why they’re hoping to keep you in the dark about their end game, which is to land a big fish that will finance their life dreams at the expense of your own.
Ask yourself this one question; is this the role I have chosen for myself, or has this been chosen for me? If it’s truly the former, then good luck to you and I hope the pre-nup is a good one. If it’s the latter, then you’ve just had your most significant Alpha epiphany moment and act accordingly.
Your comment of ” I think I’m the consolation prize. I think they still want the alphas but they’ve given up. Time to settle. I’m offended. I don’t trust these women” had me cheering because you managed to cram the last 2 years of my own experience into on succinct remark. You are absolutely correct in your assumptions and you need to repeat that daily until it becomes second nature.
I know how bleak and cynical that sounds, but it’s your future we’re talking about here. Ask yourself if would you rather proceed in the sexual marketplace with ignorance and romantic ideals, or would you like to know the real terrain and develop your goals accordingly?
Good luck to you for a man who wishes he listened to his own instincts 20 years ago.
November 8th, 2014 at 9:23 pm
@ Glenn — A+ comment. I’m saving that one. Thanks for sharing.
November 9th, 2014 at 9:19 am
@Adam Man,
I enjoyed your link on the Christian Perspective, keep it up!
November 10th, 2014 at 7:14 pm
” My experience however has been that sharing genuine emotion is seen as weakness by women and an instant turn-off. Certainly over emoting by anyone is always a turn-off. I guess what I’m asking for is someone with more knowledge than I have to kind of flesh that line out a bit”.
Remember that your experience is only one person’s experience; do not generalise and assume it to be that of every man.
Genuine emotion can be a definite turn on for a woman, but it must come from a position of strength, not weakness; it must be a gift, and not a request.
A man writes a woman a poem – he is friends with her and has never kissed her. This is a request.
Another man writes a woman a poem. He has kissed her, made love to her, malhandled her in the bedroom. She has already been swept off her feet And then he writes her a poem. This is a gift.
Many ‘betas’ express emotion as some sort of plea – they beg. And they let the whole world know about it.
An ‘alpha’ expresses his emotion to the particular woman he is interested in. He is vulnerable to her alone. He is her softie, and no one else’s. This is one of the biggest compliments you can pay a woman. Out of all the girls trying to enter your heart, you permit her access.
I am a highly emotional guy. But I don’t ’emote’ indiscriminately and certainly not with just any woman.
But this goes beyond just women – do you tell your acquaintances secrets you would tell your best friends ? So why do you behave differently with women.
Don’t pedestalise the puss. Appreciate women for what they are. But realise that there are bad ones, good ones, mediocre ones, and well…there is as much variety in women as there is in men. Stop becoming weak around women. Stop begging. And then blaming the beauty that is authentic emotional sharing. Quit rationalising weakness.
All best.
A Friend
November 11th, 2014 at 12:57 pm
Could someone tell me what the “HUS” acronym spells out?
November 11th, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Hooking Up Smart
a.k.a. Hooking up Spinsters, Building Better Betas, etc.
November 11th, 2014 at 3:53 pm
Thanks Rollo.
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Reblogged this on Philosophies of a Disenchanted Scholar and commented:
Short version: If the only thing to change is time, look at the woman’s timing. Yes, it’s insulting to men.
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