Game and Circumstance

circumstance

“Don’t be mad E. It’s not our fault you were born without the sport fucking gene, come on.”

 

At the start of July, 2011 (a month before I began this blog in earnest) I took a backpacking trip through the Great Smokey Mountains in Tennessee and North Carolina. This was due to my desire to unplug, go off the grid and get back into the real face-to-face world. It was only for 10 days but well worth burning 10 days of PTO for.

It was an educational experience meeting people, most of whom have very little online presence beyond using Twitter or FaceBook occasionally. I didn’t have cell service for most of the hike. The people I met along the way, and I’ll put this politely, were “salt of the earth” people. Some were other hikers, others were people who lived and worked in the few surrounding communities. It was good to reaffirm my ability to survive on my own and realize that there is a whole world of Men out there who live well, far beyond the influence of “men” who’ve never mowed their own lawns, much less lived by their own wit in the country. Guys who build muscle by working outdoors, not in a gym. I met beautiful women who worked in small diners you’ll never hear of. I fished rivers and streams, for dinner some nights, and I saw fireflies for the first time (I grew up in southern California, it’s a novelty).

At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame. We’re far too insulated by the Buffers of technology. Even the more belligerent rednecks I encountered still preferred to text their girlfriends and came off as pussified for doing so.

I guess what I’ve come to realize is that we tend to view what we ‘know’ about men and women from the experiences we have reported to us from all over the world on blogs, forums, the manosphere  – and I still endorse the purpose of it’s unwritten mission – however, this trip reaffirmed for me that there is no substitute for real interaction. Game will work equally well with the cute blonde serving coffee in a rural diner as it would with the club girl in NYC. Both are equally given to the same feminine fundamentals we’ve untangled about women in the ‘sphere for over a decade, but the one we tend to use as a female archetype is the typical club girl for our examples. Daisy Duke is still subject to hypergamy, she just applies it differently.

I’m not turning into Roosh, but I’m considering burning a couple months doing the entire Appalachian trail all the way to Maine.

In my day to day life I deal with a lot of rich men. Every patron or boss, every general manager I’ve dealt with for the past 15 years has been a millionaire. The primary owner of one of my liquor brand is that many times over. None of the “business friends” I shoot golf with have weeded their own lawns or installed a radiator in 20+ years. When I was on the trail I thought about how ridiculous it would be to see a guy like that or some PUA guru having to dig his own toilet and take a dump in the woods, or hoist his pack in a tree so the damn bears don’t eat the only food he’s got for the next 3 days. These guys are insulated.

I want to run, and fight, and fuck, as well as I deal with the ‘civilized’ things I do. Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.

Game and Circumstance

I start off with this today because this experience wasn’t just humbling, but it also taught me that what I experience day to day isn’t at all what a majority of men experience. My past, my N count, my 18 year marriage, and what I do professionally sets me apart in a way that I sometimes don’t appreciate or take into consideration when I’m advising men.

It’s also very humbling and affirming when I receive emails or comments from men living in countries I’ve only seen in pictures who nevertheless share a common male experience that reinforces many of the things I write about – but even within that commonality, I have to remember, my circumstance is not theirs.

I walk through a casino almost every day now and I see the same people. Not the fun glamour you see in commercials or ads about Las Vegas (that’s usually night promos), but the real people, the overweight, housekeeping and table crew, the geriatric spending their savings and social security on a hope they’ll win something significant, the desperate and the people just looking for distraction.

I walk by some of these men and think “how is Game going to help a guy like that?” While I do believe that Game is universally beneficial on many levels (primarily between the sexes, but not exclusively) there’s a point where that improvement is going to be limited by a guy’s circumstance, where he is in life and what he’s made of it so far. It’s a manosphere cliché now, but most men aren’t ready for the red pill. The red pill awareness is simply too much for them to accept within the context of their circumstances.

That circumstance isn’t based on age or a particular demographic, but Game is only going to be as liberating for a man in as far as he’s willing to accept it in terms of his own circumstance.

Not Just Sex

Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings.

That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy, nor is it what most (80%+ Beta) men even have the capacity to actualize for themselves. But, as Game has evolved, it isn’t just about Spinning Plates, or sport fucking, it’s more encompassing than this.

Game is, or should be, for the everyman.

“He only wants me for sex” or “I need to be sure he’s interested in me and not just sex” are the admonishments of women who really have no introspective interest in how a majority of men really approach becoming intimate with women. Oh it makes for a good rationale when women finally “want to get things right” with a provider, but even the excuse belies a lack of how most men organize their lives to accommodate women’s schedules of mating.

Mostly to their detriment, the vast majority of men follow a deductive,but anti-seductive, Beta Game plan of comfort, identification, familiarity and patience with women in the hopes that what they hear women tell them is the way to their intimacy will eventually pan out for them. Their Beta Game plan is in fact to prove they “aren’t just in it for the sex” in order to get to a point of having sex with a particular woman.

I always find it ironic when men tell me that their deductive plan for getting after it with a woman is to prove he’s not actually trying to get after it with her. However, this is what most men’s Game amounts to; deductively attempting to move into a long term monogamy based on what women, saturated in a presumption of gender equalism, tell him he ought to expect from himself in order to align himself with her intimate interest.

I could use the term “appeasement”, but that’s not what most men want to call it. Most men call it being a better man (for her), better than “other guys” who wont align themselves accordingly. It becomes their point of pride in fact.

Male Long Term Security

Most men, average men – and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense – want a form of security.

Most men are designed, perhaps bred, to be necessitous. To be sure , men need to be constant performers, constant qualifiers, in order to mitigate hypergamy. In the past, and to an extent now, this performance simply became a part of who he was as a man and didn’t require a constant effort, but increasingly, as male feminization has spread, men have been made to be necessitous of security.

I would say that desire for long term security differs significantly from women’s Beta Bucks side of hypergamy need since the drive to secure provisioning is an innate part of women’s firmware. The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards – and ultimately avoid feminine rejection.

In today’s feminine-centric social order, men are ceaselessly bombarded with masculine ridicule, ceaselessly reminded of their inadequacies, and endlessly conditioned to question and doubt any notion of how masculinity should be defined – in fact ridicule is the first response for any man attempting to objectively define it.

It’s this doubt, this constant consideration of his own adequacy to meet the shifting nature of women’s hypergamic drive, from which stems this need for security. The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.

The average man will look for, or create his own rationales to salve this necessitousness. He’ll create his own ego in the image of what he thinks he embodies best as being “Alpha” or he’ll adopt the easy doctrines of equalism which tell him women and men are fundamentally the same rational actors and convince himself he’s not subject to the capricious whims of feminine hypergamy because men and women are more ‘evolved’ than that– but that nagging doubt will manifest when the right circumstances and right opportunities present themselves.

Changing Your Programming

I mention in the book that I am not a motivational speaker, I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be the self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not Rollo Tomassi’s success stories, but their own success stories.

That said, let me add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will, they can be masters of their circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.


382 responses to “Game and Circumstance

  • jf12

    “The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards”

    Yes, emphasis on “a woman” namely one woman. It is only when he can only have one woman that he needs such security/assurance, and the fact that he requires reassurance turns her off. It’s totally a Catch22 (unless she’s a unicorn who doesn’t exploit his need), and, I think, the only solution is him gaining other certainty that he could have other women. His abundance mentality is going to magically cure her turn-off, but it will cut back on his need for reassurance from her.

  • givingabundance

    Men make the big money to mitigate the hypergamy and in so doing, naturally spend their big money on luxuries which are pampering in nature. Men who are poor (but could be rich as well) can travel the world, stay in shitty hostels or camp outside, eschew the attempt to mitigate hypergamy by refusing to work themselves to the corporate bone, and live a far more masculine existence even though that may paradoxically include things like washing their own laundry (in a river, than hanging it to dry over an oak tree branch). Something to consider.

  • Twenties Mentor (@twentiesmentor)

    “a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.”

    That quote really struck home for me. Fantastic post.

  • Dan Moore

    Hey! I got me a noir card last time I was in Vegas. If you’re mLife I bet I could swing an enjoyable shift or two for you…

    Seriously though, I want to rip this post off and republish it (with links). Is that OK?

  • Bluepillprofessor

    BIG agreement on the perception of Game as being all about PUA/ONS. Game is CRITICAL in LTR’s. Everybody knows if you want to get married you need game but it is not always acknowledged that you need Game in order to STAY married (happily).

    “Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.”

    AHAHAHAH! I have imagined a guy like Mystery slowing down the numbers game and attending services at the Iron Temple a couple times a week and think it would have turned out much better for him had he taken some time to reconnect with himself. Mystery never learned to love himself enough to avoid oneitis because he spent all his time running schemas.

    “I walk by some of these men and think “how is Game going to help a guy like that?”

    It’s not going to help them much at all without self improvement and becoming the “Prize.” That is the key the early PUA’s like Mystery were missing.

  • charles

    I find this variability within men perfectly OK. It is imperative for our survivor. It is clear that this pattern is following us for long time. It has been so with ancient Greeks and although I am not scholar I will bet that it was repeated in all other cultures. There is always washer and washee. We ought not to be surprise by that. Today many think that we are loosing something which we have always had. I contest this. What is happening t are only periodical swings albeit once they take on modern form they may seem to be new. Ultimately we cannot change a hard wire of our design but once we reach a certain critical mass we will do what we need to do. At the moment men is complacent for one reason only. The reason is that he CAN. Great achievements in history have been mostly due to hardship with exceptions of likes such as Margarita or Screwdriver.
    Manosphere is actually demonstration of this phenomena. Just a few years ago it was nonexistent. Feminine supremacy is being challenged. It may seem to be futile at times and progress may seem to be small but for the same token it was like that with feminist movement way back as well.
    For sure for many men to even see their own predicament it is impossible. There is light at the end of the tunnel though. I have have had open eyes of one 29 year old. Just one? You may ask. Yes it is one more then none.
    I have not convert him but I have him really thinking. I am confident that enough men will get the message. Eventually. I am in category of old man and although I have never suffered by lack of women I had my share of hardship to figure them out. I am playing the Game consciously now vs. intuitively in the past. It works for those who are 50 and up as well. Dynamics change little bit but instead of giving up and hate women for they are we need to get around it. We may not do sport fucking in that age but we still like it as well as women in the same age group. I have departed here little but only for I wanted to say that it is worth it to learn the Game at any age and for all sort of reason which Rollo stated already. Heads up gentleman. We will prevail. Let those who can swing the ax on the farm to do just that and let those who are masters of writing to do just that too. It is good for balance.

  • DeNihilist

    I like to think it is the small things, that systems like game help within a relationship. My wife, like most women, has the tendency to rank projects, things, etc. by what she is “looking” at at the very moment.

    At 8 AM, raining, the gutters need fixing. At 9 AM, sunny, the windows need washing, etc.

    This use to drive me insane. How could a person not make a plan and stay with it til done?

    Now that I have had a bit of a peek under the hood, I just ignore the latest, “must do now” and, calmly remind her that we have set the priorities, and we will follow through as decided.

    Small thing, but it really helps me sleep at night.

  • stuttie

    Awesome post as per usual Rollo

  • narec

    I’m 100% red pill and I don’t agree with this idea of “game”. You go on and on about hypergamy, how women all just want to share the hottest guys (and I agree), then you say “game” is our salvation, like acting alpha or being “confident” (another misleading term) will manipulate girls. News flash: they don’t give a shit

    They want guys who are TALL, with handsome faces – strong jaws, thin eyes, symmetry, masculine features. Everything behavioral comes after this and is given a lot of lee-way

    Just like guys want beautiful girls, with softer jaw lines, large eyes and lips, small noses, feminine features.

    Again, girls don’t give a shit about your grounding, your inner game, or that you think you’re the “prize” (lol). Simple market rules.. If you’re not at least a 7/10, you’re invisible to girls

  • Carlos

    I have been married for 15 years. I have been red pill aware for about one year. During the previous 14 years, I tried allowing my wife to be the dominant force in the marriage, and I tried having us both be equal. Needless to say, neither attempt was successful. Her behavior was exactly as you described in your blog and your book. Since I assumed a dominant position in the household, we get along much better. She still shit tests me, but not as often as before and she belittles and hectors me much, much less. Please keep up what you’re doing, you have helped at least one person- yours truly.

  • LiveFearless

    Changing Your Programming

    A. Must. Do.

    How? Think. What ‘jobs’ have the word ‘Programming’ in the title?

  • LiveFearless

    What is Programming?

    How?

    Why?

  • steverholland71

    @ narec (or troll?) – are you serious? lol

  • holisticgame

    “The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.”

    This is CRUCIAL. It might even be the tidiest argument for the necessity of Game that I’ve seen.

    From the time (~3rd grade) I became aware of sociosexual dynamics, the message has always been clear: You do not measure up. Women don’t want you, and if they do, it’s pure luck. The advice I received to overcome this circumstance was to hope and pray that God would send me a woman to see through to my real self, and love me for who I truly was. Just like the Lord did. What a tremendous amount of soul-destroying horseshit to feed a child.

    Now as I look back within the context of Rollo’s quote, it’s clear that much of my life’s energy has been expended trying to fill that bottomless basket. I’m sure that’s also true of many of the men here. The outside behaviors and skills can always improve, but the core around which they revolve – the belief that I AM ENOUGH – must be firm in order to achieve true and lasting success.

  • LiveFearless

    @DeNihilist
    At 8 AM, raining, the gutters need fixing. At 9 AM, sunny, the windows need washing… priorities

    Yes… Do what matters most.

    > six months in inpatient care has focused me even more on ‘priorities’ (what really matters).

    From now on, professionals will be hired to fix (and clean) all gutters, to wash windows and all other tasks that otherwise would mean spending time on them. People choose to do those ‘to do items’ for a living. I’ll hire them.

    (When I am able to again) I’d rather be spend the currency of time on watersports or traveling (together with ______ ) than risking doing work that I’m not the best in the world at doing (like fixing gutters).

  • Tim

    See: Fight Club; unplug from the grid, unplug from materialism, and you can be ur own master

  • agent p

    I have to disagree with Narec, Game saved my marriage once I took the red pill and I actually began to understand what the different buttons and levers do to her and our relationship. Over 18 months I have learned to turn it up or down and how to apply it from the bedroom to the kitchen and beyond. Sure they all want the tall dark handsome guy, but nailing the attitude is a force multiplier for sure and can take a passably attractive guy and turn him into someone who will make her do things neither of you thought would ever be on the menu.

    To do it properly however I found I have to do it all the time, including outside the confines of my relationship with her. Recently I have turned up my day game, my business game, my text game, all of it. Sometimes when wife is around (a little dread), many times when she is not, just to keep “those muscles” working. It improves my abundance mentality and it gives me confidence that even if one day she does go full eat pray love on me, that I won’t be crushed emotionally.

    To be clear, I spit game but I don’t bother trying to close with these ladies whom I come across, I take things a long way to get them wound up but I keep it in my pants. I do it so I have the confidence that if my marriage does blow up, I can be back in the hunt in a matter of minutes and mostly because its just so fun. Flirting, teasing and lighting up a woman of any age by pressing her buttons is immensely enjoyable and it constantly reminds me of the power of the red pill and its many facets. Practice makes perfect and boosts your confidence in so many ways.
    Besides, having a good flirt with all manner of women eases the cynical shadow of biomechanical reality that surely follows around any real red pill relationship. Sure I accept that Mrs. Wife could make a very stupid and solipsistic mistake at any time, I work to ensure that doesn’t happen, but should it, I cannot be surprised knowing what I know. Forewarned is forearmed.

  • Tenno

    Some musings.

    Only after a man deliberately and emphatically rejects the red pill, by word or action, can he be considered a true, determined beta. Otherwise he is either simply in the dark, an unwitting beta-by-misleading; or a reluctant beta-by-incapacity, when he has trouble adapting game to his situation. Neither of the last two are bona fide betas to me.

    I don’t think that true, determined betas are of any concern. It’s their choice. Also, for chumps the first order of business is to get in the right section of the internet or a bookstore. It’s the third kind that’s most troubling.

  • vinay3543

    A large part of why so many men (mainly the 80%+ who are betas) make so many inadequate moves with women, whether in early interaction, dating and short or long term relationship phase, is because they “overrate” their target woman. A level of game certainly helps, but it does not come close to the benefits that could be produced if they placed a woman’s value in its true position. The first stage mental approach, with the assistance of eradicating the nervous thoughts of approach anxiety and outcome dependence, allows a man to not be drowned in a bubble that makes him believe she is “the only girl in the world”. If a man chooses to listen to words in pop songs, lines from movies or the words coming out of female mouths, he has a long struggle ahead. All the mentioned is to assist a woman’s ego and make her feel better about life. What it all conveniently refrains to tell him is that, for 80% to 90% of the time, these methods are to the detriment of how she will appreciate and love him.

    As a real life example, take a pretty cute or hot woman walking into the gym. On nearly every occasion this kind of woman will have her head down in looking at a mobile phone or IPod. She will pretend to be in a massive hurry, and she will act like every second of her time has to be squeezed out. The naive man will disqualify himself immediately, because he interprets all this as a woman who is too busy, socially active and important to talk to him. The astute man will know her act is simply due to her self-consciousness, and the uncontrollable urge to convince her mind that the flame is still burning.

    This post will give men a little further insight into how to lead with the psychological frame:

    http://www.vinaywcmd.com/2014/03/the-40-40-20-rule.html

  • narec

    @agent p: lol at “goes eat pray love on me”. Something tells me that’s another rage inducing hypergamous feminist movie like Blue Valentine

    Anyway, I understand you’re trying to keep yourself competitive in the dating market, but flirting is one thing (women enjoy the attention). Penis in vagina is another. Guess which one confirms if she finds you attractive ?

    My point is, the dating market is a meat market, first and foremost. Women make the decision whether you’re an option or not within half a second of “sizing up” your physical appearance, before you have a chance to run your self-deluding “game”. Just like you scan the room and pick out the cute girls. Only girls have much higher standards than we do. That’s why Tinder is so popular. Watch girls go trough Tinder or Facebook – 90% of guys are “ew” “ugly” “loser”.. Then once in a while “Ooooh he looks cute!”

    That’s all. You have to have intrinsic value like looks, believing “I am the prize” means nothing on its own and will get you laughed at. As a guy, would you be attracted to an ugly warpig just because she loves herself? No? Then why do you project these self-serving beliefs on to the opposite gender?

  • LucasBly

    Finish book 2 first, in case you get eaten by a bear.

  • jf12

    @agent p re: “To do it properly however I found I have to do it all the time, including outside the confines of my relationship with her.”

    Also I have found, after trying like the dickens to switch it on, it’s hard to switch it off when I need to.

  • Dunderhead

    @narec… That’s bullshit and self defeating. I’m considered a good looking guy, but spit NO game at all until finding Rollo, CH, others.

    Further handicapped with an almost aspie inability to read social cues.

    Consequently was invisible to women. Looks just didn’t matter. Check out CH latest post on just this subject.

    Have plenty of friends who are not good looking and score premium tail …

    It was only when I learned game and began to understand women’s scripts that I suddenly got their attention. Long way to go still, but I’m now slowly becoming visible rather than invisible.

  • jf12

    @narec, you’re the one projecting male rationales onto females. Females respond viscerally to dominant (actually, brutish) behaviors from males, including males that are visually unappealing.

  • jf12

    OT but of scientific interest. There are olfactory-type chemoreceptors in many areas of the body not exposed to odorants. But recently attention has been paid to areas such as the skin that are exposed to odors.
    http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/naam/pdf/jid2014273a.pdf

    One quibble I have with odor researchers is that they continue to focus on volatiles as the only odorants of interest. But I have some evidence that people, e.g. me, can detect nonvolatiles wafted on fumes,particulates,and droplets, and that this nonvolatile detection is important behaviorly.

  • agent p

    @narec, yes Eat Pray Love is a book and subsequently a blockbuster chick flick movie about an archetypal mid-life crisis Western woman in a marriage who is not haaaaaaapy. she dumps her faithful Beta husband to have a failed affair, to then travel the world, to Eat, Pray, Love, e.g. to “find herself” and indulge her solipsistic fantasies of finding a better more tingle inducing relationship somewhere in the big beautiful world that she is undoubtedly deserving of. She subsequently ends up hooking up with some dweeb who is not ultimately any better than the guy she dumped in the first place. Truth be told I would never watch such drivel so I cannot tell you the finer points of the plot. Look it up on wiki if you so desire.

    In the manosphere, particularly where it relates to marriages, to EPL is a verb, encapsulating the tail end of @Rollo’s epic time graph of modern Western Woman’s all too typical phase of marital boredom wherein they declare they are not haaaaaaapy and must leave their faithful and usually unwitting Beta husband who has cheerfully supported her for years. The general assumption is that said women are typically deluded by the main stream media and modern feminist fairy tales that indeed 40 is the new 30 and they still have their mojo and can compete in the Sexual Market Place against all other women. Often this is an apparition that they reach out for in their solipsistic or narcissistic day dreams of actually having any chance in hell outside of their marriages in which they have become bored. So they implode their relationships on the thin premise that they must “find themselves” and sally forth into the world, hoping to recreate some of the Alpha induced fuck fest they indulged in while in their 20’s. E.g. they imagine they can again find the thrill of riding the carousel but tempered by their obvious “wisdom” they have supposedly attained while passing the days with dear hubby.

    To EPL, is to pull the ejection handle on their marriage for entirely selfish and personally indulgent reasons without a care for those they leave in their wake. So yes it is the expression of hypergamy at the tail end of many long term monogamous relationships, she has tired of her Beta Bucks and now in an echo of her earlier years, likely goes in search of Alpha fucks. At this point it’s not the search for genetic material, rather its the search for the validation of an Alpha’s attention and throbbing bad boy dick in her vag that motivates her weather she knows it or not.

    Within the manosphere, particularly at places like MMSL, it is widely held that quite specifically GAME is the preventative medicine that can forestall or entirely prevent this affliction. It is understood that by employing game, both through physical and mental self improvement and by pressing the behavioural buttons of one’s spouse, that a husband can bring back the tingles his wife longs for that may have faded due to his Betatude. Looks play into this strategy to the extent that grossly overweight guys, or more simply guys with a SMP rank even to or lower than their wives are going to fail and eventually risk losing her if they don’t change their odds quickly. But by improving his physical assets, and I might add, more importantly improving his behavioural approach, as the incumbent mate, he stands a very good chance of recovering his marriage. Critical to this is adopting Alpha behaviours that you seem to think do not apply in any meaningful way. Namely assured self confidence, outcome independence, amused mastery, an indifference to female emotional and psychological tribulations and disturbances, decisiveness, and most of all a general sense of dominance, particularly in the bedroom.

    These same behavioural approaches which you see fit to dismiss, like the gang over at PUAhate.smorg (Troll alert) are the very specific behavioural and social approaches that can elevate a man of moderate physical standing to a rock solid player who can pull poon at his whim, and not just trashy whore poon, but decent quality poon.

    Indeed if you believe that one must win the genetic lottery to be able to participate in the pooniverse in a meaningful way, absent any kind of behavioral approach, I thank you for pre-emptively checking out of the competetive sexual market place by leaving your behavioural tool kit at home, as it leaves that much more poon uncontested for the rest of us to enjoy.

    I would submit that Adonis himself would flounder in the SMP if he couldn’t speak, charm, neg or think his way through even the most basic approach. At the extreme end of the spectrum, yes a very handsome man may get the initial “look” or glance from a woman but he would forgo vast riches of vag should he never approach. Approaching is the very first and fundamental step of game and if one does not approach, one has no game, period. Poor Rodger E proved this in a terribly tragic way. Too timid to so much as say hello to a young woman he tortured himself on the very premise that you hold up, that only the “best looking men can get the ladies”. Meanwhile his own fear of failure and actual human interaction left him stranded on an island of one with tragic results.

    I agree that on FB and Tindr women shop as they would in a shoe store, “he’s hawt, ooo, he’s creepy”. Swipe this way and that. But in person, as @Rollo spells out above, the charm, wit and initiative of the player can always gain traction with the ladies, or sluts, as you may characterize them.

    To wit, I am no great physical example of mankind given that I drive a desk most of the time and have fallen off the wagon of lifting and hard exercise but I am presentable. I am a middle aged man with a bit of a paunch. Yet just a few days ago in the spirit of “approach week” pushed by CH, I swallowed my pride and rolled up on two 18-20 years old ladies of the 7-8 SMV range in broad daylight, in the middle of the day in a country club atmosphere. This was a cold approach and had I taken the “old man, leering approach without any semblance of game” I have no doubt I would have been blown off instantly as “another creepy old dude”. Instead with a reckless abandon, an irrational level of confidence and a fun disarming attitude, I had both ladies engaged in some fun conversation in a matter of seconds. Further when their yummy mummy showed up just minutes later to interrupt the party, I was able to draw her into my little charm party.

    Likewise I would have expected her immediate indignant reaction to be “Oh you old creep get away from my nubile young daughters!”. Yet within moments I had her smiling, laughing, engaged in Kino and agreeing to meet up later for drinks. Indeed we did cross paths later in the day and I most certainly could have pushed much further, but I had no intention of closing that deal given my marital status. Now I know you will point at my failure to close as a failure, but that is not my point. You maintain that they shop as either “eewww he’s creepy or HAWWWT”. I agree that generally their reaction is binary, visceral and immediate, and yet I most clearly did not get “Eeeeewwww creepy”, quite the opposite.

    I can assure that I was surrounded by far more attractive, younger and stronger men, who were better dressed and better turned out when and where I first met this trio. Yet the ladies had resolutely ignored the lot of them. Out of the 50 men within spitting distance I was the only one to show an ounce of initiative (Game) and get in there to push a play. So I refute your claim that one must win the genetic lottery to be a player in the game. Yes, possibly in the entirely reductivist and one dimensional meat market of Tinder I would not fare as well as my younger male competitors, but in a real physical setting with actual physical interaction and the possibility of actual social nuance, I will happily take on a man ten years my junior in pursuit of some delicious poon. That would be a fair fight in the SMP from my perspective and I owe that to GAME

  • narec

    @Dunderhead: I don’t know you, maybe you’re not as good-looking as you think, maybe you’re actually too pussy to pull the trigger with girls. But that’s not “game” as in the magical Jedi knowledge that it’s painted as

    Well i CERTAINLY know how to pull the trigger, and I can tell social cues.. often I point out to my good-looking friends when girls are checking them out.. i also know that I’m sexually invisible to girls because I have a beta face and aren’t tall .. Meanwhile I see how girls react to good looking guys, they go retarded around them, hang on every word, make excuses to get near them, make it easy for them ..

    So please don’t insult me by saying “looks don’t matter” when you haven’t suffered through the living hell of being an unattractive male. It would be like me telling a double amputee that legs don’t matter for soccer because I have legs and I’m bad at soccer >:|

    “Game” lol

  • agent p

    @narec
    get over yourself and show some spine, you are not a double amputee and even if you were it wouldn’t always matter in the pooniverse, Sure looks matter, no question, but they are not the only thing by any stretch…..

    please read: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/

  • John

    The security thing is quite true. My first relationship I was more worried about meeting the expectations of the relationship than I should have been! I beat myself up even when my girlfriend never did.

    It was like I had to prove I was good enough to live a life with her, not to her, but also to myself. Looking back, that type of thinking comes from deep insecurities. It is like my entire goal, was to fulfill her entire goal. Something conditioned by society, the Feminine Imperative.

  • agent p

    Oh and I forgot this link, written about fitness, but applies to anything you have to get off your ass and actually do.

    You have made it far enough in your journey that you could find therationalmale.com, now be smart and continue on the journey, accept that you can positively affect the outcome of your life. Will you pull tens? Not likely, but even banging a five can be quite rewarding if you just came in from a few years the desert of celibacy and it certainly beats whacking it in front of a computer screen for the rest of your days.

    Let go your self pity and embrace the possibilities of the future that you have the innate power to make. Yoda says, “fear leads to anger and anger turns to hate”. So don’t let your fear become the anger and hate, embrace your natural male agency and make your own rewarding fate. We’re all in it together and you can be there too, you’re so close just by getting to this part of the world.

    http://thepsychologyoffitness.com/2011/03/22/tuesday-psych-post-learned-helplessness-and-exercise/

  • agent p

    Well i CERTAINLY know how to pull the trigger, and I can tell social cues.. often I point out to my good-looking friends when girls are checking them out.. i also know that I’m sexually invisible to girls because I have a beta face and aren’t tall .. Meanwhile I see how girls react to good looking guys, they go retarded around them, hang on every word, make excuses to get near them, make it easy for them ..

    So please don’t insult me by saying “looks don’t matter” when you haven’t suffered through the living hell of being an unattractive male. It would be like me telling a double amputee that legs don’t matter for soccer because I have legs and I’m bad at soccer >:|

    “Game” lol

    I cannot help it, I am compelled to try to get you to come out of your self defeating shell. My best friend, my best man, my best wing man, is but 5’6″ tall, he is not a looker by any estimation, but he has an infectious swagger and a take no prisoners have no shame attitude towards all women. He has exuded game from long before anyone had a name for it, and he has always pulled the chicks, most of them taller than him by a matter of more than a few inches. His partially Italian background gives him this innate game approach to women and always has. As a result I frequently bemoaned the fact that this short fucking Italian was frequently pulling hotter and dirtier pussy than me for many years and I could not fathom why.
    When I first went red pill, he was the person I most looked to as the perfect embodiment of pure Alpha Attitude that I knew and had seen in action so many times. Nothing to do with physical looks at all, pure dripping behaviour. In the past the Blue pill, beta in me had always been somewhat disgusted or aghast at his blatantly dick head misogynistic views of women and the world and how he dealt with them. I was self righteous about his bad boy behaviour and yet despite my “identification game” with women, he was always a far more effective closer than I. Now I know why.

    It is with no small amount of Irony that I have discovered the red pill and ended up counselling him on how to re-ignite his marriage before it goes off the rails. He has suffered the classic traps of the Beta slide inside of a marriage. In a few short weeks however he has dusted off his old Alpha bad boy ways and now his wife and mistress are both smiling again and have once again opened the back door for his ongoing anal pleasure with them. A luxury that had been rescinded by both of them when he went soft and gooey on them in his BEHAVIOUR.

  • jf12

    @narec, about 80% of men are physically unattractive to women.

    Yes, to bolster our success with women the surest path is to become physically more attractive. I’ll wait while you go do that.

    All done now? No? What’s taking you so long?

    Ryan Gosling took two full years off during the most productive time (at the time) of his career because he was convinced he wasn’t good looking enough. Of course, he was right. For two years he worked out for hours every day and bulked up and took diet and supplements religiously. This was his full-time job for two years,with a paid assistant and everything. And it worked, a little. A little. He got, what, another point, point and a half, as long as he keeps it up?

    So, are you gonna do that, in line with what you claim to believe? Are you going to quit everything you are doing and devote yourself exclusively to improving your physical appearance full time for two years so you can get another point or two? If not, what is stopping you other than the more-sure knowledge ofthe alternative?

  • Rollo Tomassi

    @narec, have you read these posts yet?

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/13/have-a-look/

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/15/womens-physical-standards/

    I don’t necessarily disagree with your take on Looks, but looks without Game or a requisite degree of social intelligence, social proof or evident status are just looks.

    Yes, women will want to fuck a criminal they don’t know like Jeremy Meeks from viewing a single photograph, but for the vast majority of men there is still an important interactive element involved in developing rapport with women.

    Just like men, women rely on social Buffers and Tinder is one of them. It’s a game to swipe left or right, but no matter how hot a girl is for a guy she’s still got to interact with him in real time at some point.

    In my work, I deal with beautiful women 3-4 days a week, and I’m a reasonably good looking guy, but once women become accustomed to the attentions of a certain attractiveness level of guy, it’s all Game, personality and social presence.

    And this is only the attraction and interaction with new women – Game is far more expansive than just pick up.

    Do you honestly think a guy like Roosh or Nick Krauser gets laid like he does because of his looks? How many girls would swipe past these guys on Tinder?

  • John Connor

    To Narec:

    (Watch this Barbarossa youtube video link below for some clarity on the origins of “game” in black urban America and, the reason it surfaced there from the get-go. Not spitting game does not make a man any less masculine as some of us born with it just choose to go our own way and, not be pussy beggar simps).

  • A Visitor

    Good post, Rollo. I’ve slowly been using game to improve relations as I can. Thanks again for reading the book. Being Christian and being a true believer in celibacy due to moral reasons, I apply what I can from game to real life. Do you have any recommendations beyond Dalrock’s place as far as Christian game? I read AG too. Thanks!

  • A Visitor

    That should read thanks again for publishing the book, not reading it.

  • Beauty Is Truth

    Narec goes a bit on the deep end here, but I agree with him, for the most part.

    See, here’s the thing. I’ve been in this game for 6 years and all of my experiences point to looks being what really releases the raw primal energy in women. As we all know here, you can’t negotiate true desire. That’s where looks really come into play.

    For a woman to give you her upmost raw desire, she has to find you visually appealing. That is all. The study, “Orgasm Wars” proved that it didn’t matter how long a couple was together or the romantic attachment they had for each other or even their bedroom expertise, but rather, what played a huge factor in her orgasm was her partner’s looks. There was also another study that discussed how a woman can smell your genetic stock when you have sex with her via pheromones and if she’s turn off by your scent (mainly due to an asymmetrical body), her body will deliberately reject your sperm. It rejects the sperm during her sleep where she has a “wet dream” and the sperm is emitted out. The entire thing is completely biological.

    This is the ultimate red pill.

    Eliott Rodger was an extreme example of an autistic sociopath gone wrong but I read something he posted on a forum (before it was taken down) that showed he was aware of this desire. Someone asked him why doesn’t he just bang hookers and get it over with? He responded with, “It’s not all about the sex. I want her to want me. I want some form of adoration and the feeling that she actually wants to be with me.” Keep in mind, I’m loosely paraphrasing it, but the message was clear. He knew about desire and he felt that with his current genetic stock, he couldn’t extract some desire from the women he wanted.

    Elliot was a short guy with a small frame, not exactly the ideal that most, (hell, let’s just say all) women strive for in Santa Barabara.

    Here’s a study that further drives this point home:

    At about the 8:00 minute mark, you learn that the percentage of attractiveness for each trait is as follows:

    Body Shape: 79.7%
    Height: 6.1
    Penis Size: 5.1%

    Listen to what he says after 10:54, “It seems to be that shorter guys are invariably, less attractive in general.”

    I hear guys saying things like, “These things are self-defeating.” But they miss the point. It isn’t about you. It’s about exposing the truth whether you like it or not.

    The real red pill spares no one’s feelings.

  • Lion

    “At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame.”

    Yes. I agree, and especially in the context of getting back into nature and experiencing the natural rhythms of the human experience: without electricity or any modern conveniences.

  • Nathan

    All,
    I like it that looks are coming into focus. It is obvious how important they are.
    That truth should not be discounted.
    On trophies someone wrote:

    “Charles Darwin, a man ahead of his time much like the manosphere, also covers this in his book: “The Descent of Man”.He states, “Both sexes, if the females as well as the males were permitted to exert any choice, would choose their partners not for mental charms, or property, or social position, but almost solely from external appearance.”

    And Rollo has it right looks without Game or a requisite degree of social intelligence, social proof or evident status are just looks.

    These are only compensatory functions building into complexity theory.

    I believe, like Darwin, looks are primary. Hell, they are for our evaluation of women and I am not arguing from projection.

  • Nathan

    And the natural question is then –
    How can I dramatically improve my looks (musculatity as look’s #1 component in the male) as fast as possible

  • Rollo Tomassi

    For Christo-Red Pill I also like Donal Graeme. He might get a little too Catholic for you but his red pill insight in a Christian context is very good.

    http://donalgraeme.wordpress.com/

  • narec

    jj12:
    we can argue about who is projecting which genders attraction motivators on the other, but think about it logically: both parties want the best genes possisble. Genes are shown by physical apperance and cannot be “faked” (well, at least before modern times). Women invest more into reproduction than men, so their genetic standards are hundreds of times higher. An ugly man who pretends to be dominant will never flip the same switches as a 6’3 guy with a male model face.

    totenhenchen:
    -i rationalize my views just as any human, however i am not a keyboad warrior. i have extensive experience in social settings/parties/clubs, and hundreds of hundreds of rejections to draw experience from. As well as observations of the type of guys who get instant attraction from girls..

    agent p:
    -kudos on the story with the mom and daughters, did you consider that they just found you entertaining? or at best a match for the older mother? had the younger one agreed to meet with you by herself later, you would have me. but she didnt.

    -your italian friend doesnt have “innate italian game”, its just that women find italian/meditarannean features attractive, and they also find the culture/ethnicity attractive through a social programming sense. I’m sure if i was part Italian i would have no problems.

    -i also want to make a distinction of BASIC SOCIOSEXUAL SKILLS (knowing when a girl is giving you IOIs, approaching, knowing how to joke around, knowing when to go for a kiss/number/bounce..)
    This is not the nebulous, mystic, PUA inspired “game” that attempts to create a new personality for you that will attract women

    [IF YOU WILL READ ANYTHING HERE, READ THIS:]
    ———————
    HALO EFFECT: every personality or behavior trait of a good looking guy (or girl) is interpreted as positive. If he’s quiet, he’s mysterious and chill. If he’s loud, he’s dominant and social. Conversely, every personaliy or behavior trait of ugly guys is interpreted as negative. If he’s quiet he’s a loser, if he’s loud he’s annoying, if he’s direct with girls he’s a sleazebag or creeper, if he’s indirect he’s a pussy or has an agenda. This is reality, this is red pill. Halo effect influences every single interaction you have with people, you do is subconsciously. This is the problem with “GAME”. You CANNOT seperate personality and appearance. They both must be congruent. This is the major stumbling block that us unattractive guys hit when trying to apply game. Physical incongruency kills us.. GL guys wouldn’t understand.
    ————————-

    Rollo:
    -ok i read the links. The issue is that it focuses on muscles and body fat which is a softball approach since everyone thinks they can get a good body if “they really tried”. In reality women focus far more on a) face b) height, because these things are pure genetics and can’t (easily) be changed. Most players are too busy fucking girls to work out in the gym anyway, their face does most of the work.

    -again, the argument “looks isn’t enough if you don’t have game” is very misleading. See my amputee analogy. If you don’t have looks, nothing you say or do will matter. You’re not even in the game. The entire argument is purely academic anyway, since a good looking guy would have been relentlessly socialized since puberty and will usually enjoy the lions share of popularity and status regardless. These good looking social retards dont exist.

    Thanks to everyone else for commenting as well…

  • A Visitor

    Rollo,

    I usually don’t advertise it but I’m actually Catholic. Ergo, pointing me to a Catholic red pill site is great. Many thanks!

  • deti

    Re: Marriage game and married men:

    A married man needs to have Game, Godly masculinity, or whatever else you want to call it. To me, what it amounts to is this:

    You have to know, deep down in your head, heart and gut, that if your wife ever pulls the plug on your marriage and decides to EPL you, you will still be OK.

    Get that into your head. YOU WILL STILL BE OK even if she leaves you. If you have some social intelligence and ability to relate to people, you will be able to replace her if you want to.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    No offense intended for the men who are sexually successful with women without the greater advantage of having good-looks, but I’ve returned to college when I was 26. With my sex drive deeply diminished thanks to the effects of porn and age, I was there taking the whole in of the female sexual strategy instead of being clouded by my hormones.

    I noticed that women are as visual as men are. More, really.

    I remember seeing the best-looking girls beta orbit the good-looking young men. I know of one guy, a higher Alpha. Really terrific guy with a great personality, albeit he never really talked much to women and was keen on staying loyal to his girlfriend.

    He had attractive women throwing themselves at him. I’m not talking about women giving outs ”signals of interest.” I’m talking about women who behaved like angelical creatures when near average men tell to this guy that they are up to have no-strings attached in some bathroom. To the same effect, the German foreign student with his 6’6” height, 100% Nordic bone structure and golden locks got most of the female attention.

    Nerec is right. Unless the guy is physically attractive(tall, handsome face) he is going to be invisible. I would watch as average guys asked questions concerning the school subject we were having at the time and the women, below average and the hot women, completely ignored these fellas. They could’ve been bleeding on the floor. almost dead – the women wouldn’t care.

    This college had far more female students. And most of the women were single. A vast majority of the women were quite beautiful. French women, German women, Italian women and so on. All of them were sharing the same handful of real Alpha males. The average and below average women would rather stay celibate than touch the average and below average male and most of the average guys tried to strike gold by going through the friendzone route. As if that would work.

    I see you guys talk a lot about game and Hypergamy and how men can overcome Hypergamy.. but women from every region this planet has to offer are as sexual as men. They have the same sex drive. Its just that women’s sex drive is only awaken by men who are above average in looks. That would be explained by a man’s facial features and his height. Most of the guy’s here who get tons of women are very skinny. What they share among themselves is:

    1) Taller than average.
    2) Handsome face.

    You can’t grow taller. You can have plastic surgery to get an attractive face but its going to really cost you. And don’t forget that most guys begin to bald in their mid’s 20s.

    Women’s biology is composed in a way to make it impossible for women to feel sexual desire for the men who aren’t Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise. Game doesn’t work at all. And even if it worked – come on. Isn’t it a bit silly to be pandering to women, jumping all their hoops only to see some guy who got lucky in the genetic game get all of the women without having to work for it? I’ve seen borderline retards bed women who are better looking than Jessica Alba and also younger. But I’ve never seen a dependable, sweet, dedicated engineer with even with the most ugly and obese of women.

    Of course in the Susan Walsh Universe engineers and awkward doctors seem to be swimming in wives(noticed I said wives. I didn’t say they get laid, because they don’t aha) but I live in the real world.

    There are ways for one to accept the harsh brutality of women’s sexual chains. Avoid women in your teens and 20s and watch a lot of porn. By the time you reach your late 20s your sex drive is so wired to find only perfect women(I know, there are a lot of fake women in porn but do tell me you guys wouldn’t bang sasha gray?) sexually attractive and even then you need a lot of time to get turned on.

    I went to the doctor to check if my heart was having issues or if I was suffering from diabetes – No. Porn removes your desire for women and it frees you from ending up as either a sucker(husband) a wallet(boyfriend) and as a vagina-beggar(random dudes who aren’t Superman-hot chasing after women).

    You guys will also have a lot of fun 10 years from now – if you are 20 years old – watching women trying to get you to date them because their eggs are rotting, the Alphas don’t want to date them let alone have children with you. It really does a nasty trick to a woman’s mind when they realize you’d rather stay home to masturbate instead of taking them out to a fancy restaurant hoping to get laid with a woman who probably has slept with entire football teams, lol.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    An ugly man who pretends to be dominant will never flip the same switches as a 6’3 guy with a male model face.

    Granted, but you’re describing the men on the far end of a relative bell curve and you need to consider how any particular woman’s subjective SMV affects attraction.

    When the general pool of men in a social grouping only average 5’5 and the women only reach 5’3, any guy below 5’3 is short. The guy who’s 5’11 is a god, but not if the women in his social group average 6′.

    Be an average 6′ white guy in the Philippines and you get what I mean.

    I don’t disagree with you on the primary importance of looks, that’s part of ‘circumstance’ I’m relating in this post, but there are other mitigating factors to attraction, if not arousal, for women. Why does an ugly musician like Lemmy from Mötorhead get laid with beautiful women – hint, it’s not his looks.

    This is a quote from the Hasselton study I linked for Nathan:

    According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

    From a woman’s perspective, the ideal is to attract a partner who confers both long-term investment benefits and genetic benefits. Not all women, however, will be able to attract long-term investing mates who also display heritable fitness cues. Consequently, women face trade-offs in choosing mates because they may be forced to choose between males displaying fitness indicators or those who will assist in offspring care and be good long-term mates (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000). The most straightforward prediction that follows is that women seeking short-term mates, when the man’s only contribution to offspring is genetic, should prefer muscularity more than women seeking long-term mates.

    So yes, your charming personality and bulletproof game wont make you look any better when your shirt comes off, but your better off with Game and a good body than being a social retard with a nice face.

    Eliot Rodger wasn’t a bad looking kid, nor did he lack wealth or affluent grooming. He lacked social intelligence and suffered mental illness as a result.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    I forgot to mention that while there are many, many attractive women in college, there aren’t that many attractive women when your official years in college come to an end. Most women either get married to a rich Alpha during the peak of their sexual worth, or they very quick descend to a state of being ugly/average. Past the age of 25 there are only a handful of women who are worth a glance. And most of the women who are average without being obese are too bitter at having lost their looks, or at never having had a shot at bedding an Alpha male. Besides, most of them are in deep need of male attention, which means that the risk of them calling you on a false sexual harassment accusation is huge, or they want to suck your resources dry.

    All of the Good-looking men I’ve met in my life aren’t married. They have a handful of children they’ll never pay for. Meanwhile, most of the men I’ve met in my life who couldn’t draw in female attention are married and spending their entire time as their wive’s lap dog, bank account, and personal psychologist. Do say. What is best? To spend your days watching porn/playing video games/hiking/reading sci-fi/playing chess/whatever or trying to become(Alpha) which you aren’t meant to be because your genes don’t allow it, or do you want to do the good thing and become an indentured slave like Susan’s Walsh dear husband? Hey, I bet he gets lucky once a month!

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Hey, I bet he gets lucky once a month!

    And by her reports only for 13 minute increments.

    I’m not sure I’d call that ‘lucky’.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    ”Granted, but you’re describing the men on the far end of a relative bell curve and you need to consider how any particular woman’s subjective SMV affects attraction.”

    Men who are average are on the far end of the curve. Studies have been done that show women’s sexual desires are triggered by higher than average height and facial good-looks. Most of the men who get messages from women on tinder/cupid are tall or good-looking. Many women have a ”only message me if you are at least 6 feet tall.” Regardless of how skinny, fat, or ugly the women might be.

    I remember this one girl who noticed i wasn’t trying to get laid like most of the other guys. She was dedicated to her studies, a good friend to her friends and a good daughter. She also had a butter face with a great body. She complained all the time about not having a boyfriend but she never lacked for sex for she had it with the guy’s who were above average, she was even kept as a FWB by a guy who was notorious for being a douchebag to the women he was sleeping with(remember, guys, its not the behavior that makes a man attractive; its his looks; looks also make their behavior tolerable because the looks make the women horny).

    Now, where I was studying, most of the women were 5’6.” That makes them taller than most American women. The men were on average 5’8.” Taller than the women. yet the only men who got any play were 5’1” upwards with the taller ones getting the higher quality and the more frequency. There was one guy, chubby, a bit of a redneck, who was 4’11” and had a decent looking girlfriend who was 4’10” herself, but accidents do happen. He wasn’t rich and she wasn’t poor. I bet that guy is going to lock that girl in pretty hard because she’s the only girl he could ever have sex with.

    There was another guy at 5’6” who attracted a lot of women – decent looking women also – but he had a Tom Cruise face and perfect teeth, so its irrelevant.

    Most men who notice a couple will only look at the woman. I don’t do that. I look first at the man women are with.. Women who are in their teens, and the women who are in their teens are always accompanied by men who are much taller than them – usually taller than the average height for men – and the men have handsome faces, many of the times.

    The women’s reactions to the men in question was guttural. They couldn’t let go of the guy, never letting him out of their sight. Most likely afraid of having another woman steal their man.

    I once saw a classmate of mine, a 6 feet woman with Germanic features become putty at the sight of a 6’9” man. This guy forgot his wallet at home. You know what she did? She pulled out her ATM card, took 50 bucks from her bank account and gave it to this one guy she had never seen before. 5 minutes prior to that we crossed a beggar who was almost selling his life asking her for 1$ and she didn’t even look at her.

    Returning to the affair of couples in their 30s. Most of the couples, the women and the men were close in height or he was just of average height. The woman kept away from her partner as far away as possible , was unpleasant to him, and would only approach him when she wanted him to pay the bills.

    Average men do get laid. At an extremely high price. The women they marry hate them, they very rarely get any, they are hated, and many are raising children who aren’t part of them.

    One thing that I’ve noticed when I visited Germany is that the men don’t chase women. They don’t really care much about women. When they want to get laid, they direct their feet to a brothel. I suspect most average men wouldn’t even be found near women if they could get sex a few times a month without having to become a lifelong slave to a woman who hates them, or to alimony or child-support.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    ”And by her reports only for 13 minute increments.
    I’m not sure I’d call that ‘lucky’.”

    I remember when she mentioned in one of her topics – that end up being deleted because she scarred yet again her ”I’m the queen bee that does nothing wrong” persona how she stopped wanting to have sex with her husband after the children were born(provider locked in, back to banging Alphas) and the dear husband had to threaten divorce for her to begin to put out again. Then again, by her own admission all of the random sex she had with Ivy league Tom Buchanan types was cold, impersonal and left a bitter taste in her mouth.

    I do wonder how, by her own account, she went up to double digits with this type of guy before she scouted out the sucker potential in her then future husband.

    Cute little cult Mrs. Walsh has going on. She’s the queen bee with the average and below average women who either married men for a green card or to secure that STEM paycheck that sure makes up for the sacrifice of having to have sex with men they aren’t attracted to ;).

  • Nathan

    Thank you for the Study. It’s downloaded.
    Regarding Eliot Rodger,
    ” Eliot Rodger wasn’t a bad looking kid, nor did he lack wealth or affluent grooming. He lacked social intelligence and suffered mental illness as a result.”
    I submit that he would have scored a lot from one simple change
    – Getting a lot more muscular –
    He had the money to pursue that goal in whatever way he wanted to.
    That would have naturally changed his personslity to more confident and doninant snd it would mean sexual success

  • Nathan

    ” Average men do get laid. At an extremely high price. The women they marry hate them, they very rarely get any, they are hated, and many are raising children who aren’t part of them.”
    TRUTH

  • Steve H

    “I suspect most average men wouldn’t even be found near women if they could get sex a few times a month without having to become a lifelong slave to a woman who hates them, or to alimony or child-support.”

    Almost all US cities are full of marginally-attractive Backpage escorts who offer 100 dollar specials. In S. Florida – price goes down – 50 dollar specials for legitimate 7s and 8s.

    This might be harder to do in North Dakota or perhaps Vegas, but virtually everywhere else in the US a man can spend time with a new escort (or be a repeat customer to one he enjoyed) once a week – and, doing the math – that’s 52 encounters with up to 52 different women for only $5,200 over a year’s time. So I have to respectfully disagree with you, because unfortunately men choose to be cowards and choose to remain victims.

  • Nathan

    From Heartsie:
    ” A woman with a good body is art, but she is also a drug, stimulating instant desire in men that is like the human aesthetic sense distilled in raw form to its ancestral animal essence, whereby the object is not to admire, but to consume.Women can be stimulated to instant, wall-climbing desire as well, but it usually requires more… much more… than a muscular body. If you want to know what instant, insistent, existential female horniness looks like, go to high society parties and watch how they behave in the company of a famous or powerful man.”
    He has it righy

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I realize celebrities are a bad illustration, but Leo used to be every girl’s heartthrob after Titanic:

    https://ca.shine.yahoo.com/lets-talk-leos-beach-body-130000821.html

  • DeNihilist

    Thinking back and making a list of the 30 or so women I slept with before tying the knot, I can say that more then half of them approached me first, and initiated the sex. I found out years later through facebook, that in my youth, I was considered a “hottie” by most of my female classmates. Though socially I was quite fearful of rejection, so persued very little.

    To think of how many more women I could have slept with if I only had a smidgen of game…….

  • DeNihilist

    Re Leo;

    The difference is, is that even though he looks “shaggy”, he IS shagging a 22 yr old model. Sorry ladies, aint gonna see Gosseling with oprah for sex, though Mila’s mate use to bang that old cast away of Bruce’s, Demi.

  • jf12

    Rollo dryly notes you’re “better off with Game and a good body than being a social retard with a nice face.” And it’s true, and if you disagree because of what you may say you think you’re observing, I’d argue that you’re almost entirely merely expressing your feewings.

    I started getting ignored by women at puberty, despite being quite the social person, exuberantly hyperactively extraverted, because of my dork face and build (think Jon Cryer; I’m of Italian descent btw). No amount of my (relative) fame and fortune ever helped, either. That lasted some 50 years, until I started incorporating some Game despite the moral hazards.

    I’m now finding (new) women to be easier than ever, despite being aged and gimpy. And whether because of preselection or what, I’m finding that the halo effect works in reverse too: women will perceive a man to be better looking when they are incongruently attracted to him. I believe this fallback mating strategy is the reason that *despite* women’s pickiness about looks, the looks of the majority of men, i.e. non-great-looking men, really don’t matter as much as they could.

    Of course, there are thresholds to everything. narec caveated about skillz for example. But I repeat: if you actually believed what you are saying then you would get some facial surgery and transform your body as best you could. These things aren’t that costly.

  • Anonymous Reader

    deti
    Get that into your head. YOU WILL STILL BE OK even if she leaves you. If you have some social intelligence and ability to relate to people, you will be able to replace her if you want to.

    I’m re-re-re-reading Frank Herbert’s novel Dune. Some of it is pretty dated in a 1960’s way. But some of it is still good. Deti is saying: kill your fear.

    Herbet put it this way in his science fiction novel:

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Look at my Gravatar image.

    Do I really need to explain that I place some importance on looks?

  • jf12

    @Rollo, you’re barely 1 cm tall sitting down!

    I’m trying to think of some way to kindly and gently disparage the idea that someone floated in this pool, that women have this copacetically functioning magic picker to which we as males must genetically kowtow to. In contrast, in reality, as far as I can tell women’s pickers are the brokenest thing about women.

  • New Yorker

    The essence of Game is the destruction of personal fear. That absence of fear needs to permeate every part of your life from work to interpersonal relations to athletics, etc. One becomes a stronger, happier person when he is not afraid to live his life and looks at the world through an optimistic prism. As a nice side benefit, women quickly pick up on that confidence and want to be a part of your world. There is nothing more to it. Every day you make a commitment to be the best possible you. The rest follows afterward.

    Betatude is first and foremost a mindset. It is a resignation to one’s limitations. Every time you skip the gym, go to bed before finishing an important task or let yourself off the hook in doing something challenging, you are being a beta. That attitude is a cancer that will destroy your life until you decide that you will cut it out.

    Rollo does a fantastic job of connecting the dots of intersexual relations. Any man who takes his life seriously can enjoy wonderful female companionship. Whether you want a relationship, one-night stands, or something in-between, the constant is having a clear, unshakeable faith in your identity and direction in life.

  • DeNihilist

    There was empty guitar case game – http://www.mensfitness.com/life/entertainment/study-women-more-attracted-to-guys-who-play-guitar

    Now we have 2 cello’s game – https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nkcm5cT9gGI

    These 2 guys are huge! selling out around the world.

  • Napoleon

    There’s some talk about height and it’s true, it’s the most important factor in the SMP.

    Even heartiste or one of his proprietors acknowledged how screwed short guys are in the SMP. He said this during approach week: “Manlets are universally repulsive to women worth seducing. On the abacus of eros, the more manlets there are, the more women will want to be sexually rescued by a turgidly impudent Heartiste.”

    The real kicker is how he said, “repulsive to women worth seducing”. Short guys can at-least date down or try to get with some girl at the same level of attractiveness as him but you’ll always be constantly compared to other guys. Even the average man will be considered more attractive.

    I hate to get personal but this has happened to me twice. I was in two relationships and both girls left me for a taller guy. I personally knew one and what was strange to me was that he was nowhere near as smooth as me. I was 3 years deep in nightgame so I knew my way around things socially. But this guy was almost a complete dork. He would hardly talk but girls found that to be mysterious. (“Narec” really hit the nail on the head with his “Halo Theory” comment above on this one.)

    His saving grace was his great height (around 6’6, as he once said). I remember how girls would gawk and exclaimed with glee at how tall he was. All he really needed was an opportunity to strike on my chick and bam, just like that, her hypergamy was quenched. At the time, I blamed my frame, game and whatever else us disillusioned guys say to ourselves to ease the pain. But as I read more studies and more red pill, I begin to understand that there was nothing I could really do.

    Even a “world renowned” pick up artist like Neil Strauss (who’s a short guy btw) was cheated on by the girl he was dating in The Game.

    As brutal as it sounds, short men where born to lose in the SMP. That’s just the way it is.

    It’s evolution at work.

  • George Meeks

    I am responding to the video John Conner provided above. Thank you John. The video narration clearly explains the entire dilemma at its most basic level. Everyone should listen to the narration very carefully and repeatedly until it is completely understood. This site, almost all comments herin and all similar sites, alpha-beta-PUA-bullshit, ect exists because males are frustrated by lack of adequate female sexual acceptance without caveats, hypergamy, etc. Males are encouraged to “unplug” from “the matrix”, man up, etc as a means to gain better access to female sexual acceptance. The character of “alpha” is defined as an innate female sexual preference. The idolation and desire to become “alpha” is nothing more than a reaction to the feminine paradigm of attractive male sexual character as defined herin. “Unplugging” is nothing more than a reaction to the feminine imperative as defined herin. Therefore, “unplugging” and the entire endeavor is nothing more than further entrapment. You are like a bug caught in a spider web. The harder you struggle, the more entrapped you become. It is like digging deeper to escape a hole you’ve fallen in. The condition becomes an ambiguous paradox with all the garrulous bullshit. Herin “alpha” becomes an oxymoron.This is the condition of the ultra pussy whipped. In all cases the whip is wielded by a fantasy. Who is the master of your destiny? You or some frivolous stench trench?

  • Nathan

    In life, I have seen that one area of mastery will not compensate for an area of deficiency.

    Wealth will not compensate for poor esthetics.

    Aesthetics will not compensate for mild aspergers or social retardation

    Amazing social skills like that of a famous comedian or social movement organizer will not compensate for poor looks or lack of wealth in the long term.

    Rollo says, have looks, assets and game, but if you can only have one, have game. That is an empowering philosophy.

    Darwin would seem to argue that the most important area is looks.

    Life is more difficult for men. Unlike women, even AMAZING looks will not compensate for deficiencies in other areas if you are a man.

    Women do not have the testosterone driven sex drive to focus only on looks.

  • Novaseeker

    Lots of self-defeating talk here.

    Yes, if you are short for a man that is a strike against you in terms of creating another obstacle to overcome. But all that means is that you need to counterbalance it in other areas — i.e, become very buff (that is independent of height), chiseled physically, cultivate charm/game, embrace mastery and outcome independence. You will vastly improve your performance with women as a result.

    Now, if you insist on comparing yourself to the taller, good looking men as your measuring stick, then you’re just being an ass. That’s like saying “If I’m not as rich as Warren Buffet, I must be poor and a loser”. It’s a stupid way to think. Yes, as a short guy, you have the obstacle that some women will reject you no matter what even if you are buff/charming/spit good Game. So what. There are plenty of quite hot women who won’t. Your pool is smaller, that is true, but you can still fish very well in it if you improve yourself, and don’t get caught in the trap of lamenting the fact that you aren’t 6’2 and looking like Clooney. You can still do very well with women without that — not as easily, no, because height is the absolute worst negative physical characteristic for a man to have from the perspective of women being attracted to you, but if you are willing to work within that parameter and know the pool you have to fish in, by improving yourself you can still do very, very well in that pool.

    Getting pissed and giving up because you don’t have it as easy as the taller guys is unmanly, frankly, and probably has more to do with your lack of success with women than your height does. We’re men — we embrace challenges and are defined by overcoming them. We are thoroughly unmanned when we shrink from challenges and take the easy way out of fapping to porn. Get over yourself, and get better — and embrace the challenge.

  • stuttie

    @Napoleon/Professor Von Hardwiggs/narec

    I’m 6’4″ and I can tell you that simply being tall does not mean you have top-shelf pussy lining up for you on a regular basis. I’ve have a reasonable ”pre-Game” notch count (50-60) for my age (42) as well as having been a slave/married from age 30-40.
    Add my height + 10 years solid gym work and that STILL does not guarantee a harem of HB8’s.
    Sure, I pulled some quality pussy from age 17- 29 but now in my 40’s, I need more than height to get the quality and quantity I require.
    It wasn’t until I found CH, Rollo and Roosh (because I wasn’t happy with a major dry spell). learnt Game, started approaching, spinning plates, & maintaining solid Frame that I could capitalise on my height and physique. Granted, height & physique can get you some IOI’s but until you understand how to see those subtle/covert IOI’s, be able to immediately approach, apply Game, Frame and counter any ASD/LMR, have I increased the quality of my notches.
    Pick-up aside, I’ve used Game in all areas to improve my life – my career, family, friends and all social interactions.

  • water cannon boy

    Leo isn’t on any girls walls anymore. But those same girls would still get with him in a heartbeat.

  • stuttie

    one more thing I want to add.
    If you’re tall and reasonably good looking, you invariably get shit-tested harder and more often – which is a good thing if you know how to deal with those shit-tests. You WANT to be shit-tested.
    This (and approaching) was my sticking point. If I did muster up the courage to approach, I would usually fail every shit test known to man – in some cases badly (i.e. hold her handbag lol) and the target would loose attraction, give me the LJBF or I would give up.
    I was the tallest beta / AFC on the planet lol
    So being tall does not mean you automatically pass shit tests or get a free pass from shit tests. So Game is a MUST HAVE.

  • Dunderhead

    @napoleon… You’ve got Heartiste’s definition of manlet wrong. A manlet isn’t a short guy. It’s a male feminist (or feminized male) afraid of his masculinity.

    “(aka kitchen bitches, sexual egalitarians, plush manlets)”

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/the-misery-of-the-househusband/

    A short dude with game will out-score a tall kitchen bitch every time.

  • Jeremy

    Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings.

    That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy, nor is it what most (80%+ Beta) men even have the capacity to actualize for themselves. But, as Game has evolved, it isn’t just about Spinning Plates, or sport fucking, it’s more encompassing than this.

    Game is, or should be, for the everyman.

    It’s disappointing to me how many MRA’s reject this idea, or fail to consider it. To them, game is a mythical flim-flam that bloggers and book writers pass off on vulnerable men just to make a profit. They seem to want to believe that there is no social dynamic at work, and that the only rational way of thinking about the world is through a set of laws that need to be changed.

    They fail to consider that society poops out the laws, the laws don’t crap out a society. When social dynamics change, so go the laws. Feminists could never, ever, have gotten the tomes of fem-centric laws passed if they had not changed society first. MRA’s would be wise to realize that fact, and realize that social dynamics need to change *first*.

  • jf12

    @stuttie, re: “You WANT to be shit-tested.”

    Not me; I want not to be shit tested. I despise shit testing. I’ve come to the conclusion, which I also despise, that shit testing is an indicator of wishing to be treated poorly: an invitation from the woman to the man for him to act more brutal with her. Forget playful whatevers; she’s looking to be treated “like a human” i.e. at least as forceful a pushback as if a man demanded you hold his purse.

  • stuttie

    @jf12 – I didn’t say I ‘liked’ getting shit-tested, but my recent field-tested approaches, notches and failures tell me that women will shit-test you multiple times before they bang you. They have to. If they shit test you they are interested. Just about everything they ask/say up to when you get the bang is a shit test. They never make it easy. They want to see if/how you pass each and every one. Women will always shit test you – it’s like death and taxes, so the sooner you know how to dodge bullets the better.

  • gunslingergregi

    @Professor Von Hardwiggs
    And even if it worked – come on. Isn’t it a bit silly to be pandering to women, jumping all their hoops only to see some guy who got lucky in the genetic game get all of the women without having to work for it? ””””””””’

    jesus Christ dude you wrote a lot of shit to really say that
    but any dude has to work for it
    there are no dudes who don’t have to work for it
    even the movie stars you quote work their freaking asses off to get bitches
    so what the fuck are you people talking about
    if It was that easy for a good looking dude they would just be able to get rich bitches and live off their asses
    but they don’t why?
    dudes with giant dicks working in porn
    why the fuck do they still have to work why can’t they just have a rich bitch take care of them?
    cause there is more to getting bitches than a big dick being tall or looking good
    because bitches want a dude with money no matter what the fuck he looks like
    why do half the marriages of sports stars break up after they retire cause it takes more
    learning to actually own a bitch is the most important thing you can do
    I mean like own her life or death

  • gunslingergregi

    @rollo
    I realize celebrities are a bad illustration, but Leo used to be every girl’s heartthrob after Titanic:”””””””””’

    still is according to my girl all the chicks in jail were dreaming about him
    she dreamt about me he he he

  • Exfernal

    “Game is, or should be, for the everyman.”

    Game is a force multiplier. Different returns for different folks. For those at the top of attractiveness-to-womanfolk pile Game is great to have, but they don’t need it as much as lower echelons anyway. For bottom feeders even top-notch Game doesn’t change much.

  • narec

    Napoleon:
    Sorry to hear about the dump..
    Halo effect isn’t a “theory”, it’s proven by multiple studies
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect#Role_of_attractiveness

    It is the single driving force behind all human social interactions. You see the person, and you make a judgement of them based on appearance. It’s evolved from our more dangerous prehistoric past where language was limited and decisions on who to trust were based on quick assessments of facial features

    Anyway, so you’re at a party. A tall guy with a masculine face walks up. He mentions a quick anecdote. Everyone pays close attention. Everyone laughs at the right times. Everyone’s first impression is “this guy is cool, confident, a natural born leader”.

    A short, not so masculine guy walks up and starts talking. Within a few moments people start to lose interest and side conversations spring up. He frantically shifts from face to face looking for some interest which only makes people more uncomfortable. He gets the message, shuts up to down half his drink, and quietly listens to the Alpha as he starts holding court again. If you asked any girl or guy there what their impression of him was? “Unconfident, boring, loser”.

    Even many “red pilled” guys subconsciously fall into the halo effect trap, let alone girls with their shallowness and groupthink.

    Stuttie:
    girls don’t shit test good looking guys, other than some playful teasing. They make things easy, and streamline the process from meeting to sex. Most of the time they won’t even insist he wear a condom.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    ”jesus Christ dude you wrote a lot of shit to really say that
    but any dude has to work for it
    there are no dudes who don’t have to work for it”

    I’ve never seen a good-looking men who also happens to be tall, work for it. My father was in the Air Force when he was young. He met some real Alpha males, Neil Armstrong types. One guy in particular. The guy was 6’4” with very masculine features and a masculine personality. He has over 20 children spread all over the world. None of those children has he ever payed child-support for. Every one of those Alpha spawn were raised by the average men who are paying top dollar for sloppy seconds.

    He doesn’t have any game. He doesn’t need to. He doesn’t spend money on women. He’s approached by attractive women in their 20’s and 30’s. He makes ends meet as a carpenter. He sleeps with the married women who contract him. He’s offered trips and gifts.

    The man is in his late 60’s, and a survivor of cancer. He still beats without putting any effort men who are much younger than him. His most recent girlfriend is a 30 year old attractive attorney from the University of Berlin. Indeed, she’s looking for a guy who can match her accomplishments and her income for a marriage match, but its this older guy with a junior high education who is getting laid for free.

    When I was 16 years old I worked a couple years as a janitor for an European model agency. I was befriended by many over the top young Greek gods. Men who looked like this guy,

    http://ztona.org/wp-content/uploads/Manuel+Neuer+s.jpg

    I was taken to many places with them. I would laugh my butt off observing average men try to game average/below average women whereas my model friends had Jennifer Lawrence types offer themselves on a plate without expecting a return call.

    No offense bro, but the men who are genetically gifted don’t need to work for anything. Money is offered to them, sex with any woman they could possibly want is their kind of beer. And that is one thing that I will never understand about my fellow men. They acknowledge the fact that they are not attractive. That they receive the sloppy seconds from Alpha males and that they are seen by women as orbiters and future providers but still they persist with their boats riding the waves against the tide of time, hoping that tomorrow will be different.

    The male hamster might be the reason for our position as the number one civilization. But then again, the Japanese youth are transforming themselves into a socially intimidating grass-eating generation and they are pretty up there, compared to us, as a civilization.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    Narec, Alexander The Great was considered to be the most handsome man in Ancient Europe. He had a muscular build, a very handsome face and thick, curly golden hair. When he captured the royal Persian family, the mother of the deposed Persian Emperor approached Alexander’s companion and prostrated herself in front of him.

    She had two men in front of her. Alexander and Alexander’s best friend. Despite how good-looking Alexander was.. with Alexander’s natural ”game” and ”perfect Alpha male language.’ she assumed the taller man to be the conqueror of worlds.

    The halo effect is real. I payed attention to the social dynamics between average-looking people, and above-average people. The average-looking men were treated like ”one of the guys” with women calling these guys out using the female version of their names. I recall one guy who was 5’9” and had nothing wrong going on with him being highly interested in what I would call ugly – compared to other women – and the guy was the most close version of a human satellite that I’ve ever seen in my life.

    He was the perfect pet. The girl’s girlfriend was a 6’2” soccer player.

    The orbiter was accepted by the female hive community because he was always providing attention and validation without expecting anything in return.

    The respect he felt for the women wasn’t appreciated. No woman ever showed interest in him. Cue in the 6’3” half-dutch guy with a face of a young model. This guy would treat the women like complete trash, grabbing and groping them in front of the teachers. You think anything ever happened to the guy?

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    ”Yes, if you are short for a man that is a strike against you in terms of creating another obstacle to overcome. But all that means is that you need to counterbalance it in other areas — i.e, become very buff (that is independent of height), chiseled physically, cultivate charm/game, embrace mastery and outcome independence. You will vastly improve your performance with women as a result.”

    Muscles is the red pill equivalent of the women’s knee-jerk reaction to how many men lack sexual success, to say that you need confidence. Not so. I’ve met many a real Alpha who lacked self-esteem or confidence in getting laid for some odd reason and women still jumped them. With the same note said, I’ve traveled all over Europe. Met many younger and older men and I’ve seen more women and men than I can count stars in the sky and the amount of muscular men I’ve seen are only a handful. Muscles might work with some women. But most women say they want a muscular man like Brad Pitt.

    That is not muscular at all. That is average and easily attained. Why is it that I don’t see guys rushing at the opportunity to have a lean chest like Brad Pitt? Because in Brad Pitts case, its his facial looks that make him attractive.

    One social aspect that I’ve noticed where it concerns buff men.

    Tall + buff + Spartacus face = he can bang an 18 year victoria secret supermodel.

    Average + buff = Women don’t even notice.

    Short + average face + buff = tryhard with a Napoleon complex. Coming straight from the women’s mouth.

  • BC

    I’m going to echo Novaseeker:

    Lots of self-defeating talk here.

  • Professor Von Hardwiggs

    Nothing wrong with being honest. Its insanity to assume one can get the sloppy seconds of Alpha men by trying to buff out our bodies or by learning how to be social dominant. Not every one of us the charisma of Winston Churchill(the funny thing is that Churchill was a good-looking Alpha in his youth) and it makes no sense for average and below average men to try to get with women in their own league because any woman – and I mean any woman – can acquire sex from men who are miles and miles out of their own league, only to wait it out until their 30s to marry a non-remarkable man.

    Roissy is a tall man with great facial qualities. Rollo also seems to be equally good-looking. And Strauss, lol, he’s more of a publicity stunt man than anything else.

  • gunslingergregi

    Professor Von Hardwiggs I’ve never seen a good-looking men who also happens to be tall, work for it. My father was in the Air Force when he was young.””””””””’

    like I said he worked for it

    ”””””””’Professor Von Hardwiggs
    He makes ends meet as a carpenter.””””””””

    like I said he worked for it

    ”””””””’Professor Von Hardwiggs No offense bro, but the men who are genetically gifted don’t need to work for anything. Money is offered to them, sex with any woman they could possibly want is their kind of beer.”””””””””

    if that was true then

    ”””””””’Professor Von HardwiggsWomen’s biology is composed in a way to make it impossible for women to feel sexual desire for the men who aren’t Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise”””””””’

    why did they have to work so hard and do so many movies when they could of just had the world handed to them?
    they worked for it

    ”””””””’Professor Von HardwiggsWomen’s
    I’ve never seen a good-looking men who also happens to be tall, work for it.
    ””””””””””””””””

    so in reality you haven’t really named a dude even at the complete apex of everything that didn’t have to work for it.

  • gunslingergregi

    and not only that but the actors and shit can’t keep a chick from running their money over the coals
    it takes more

  • gregg

    @Professor Von Hardwiggs

    I have been on both sides of the fence, so I think I can add my two cents.

    As a young guy I have been considered “hot”…I had no problems with women. Beautifull women.

    Some men do not age well. It´s my case. I am in my late thirties now. Despite being successful attorney with 25 employees, confidence, knowledge, everything..I am nowhere near the success I enjoyed in my teens and twenties. I can still occasionally bed some beautifull women but I am nowhere near the level of success I enjoyed when I was just good looking with nothing.

    So – yes, looks are of primary importance. But – you can still fuck it up when you have clingy personality. This is also the truth. I personally know many good looking guys with underaverage wives..´cos they are passive, clingy. But if you have A looks and normal personality, you can SWIMM in women if you want. I´ve done it.

    And of course … avearge man with A plus game has NO chance comapared to hot guy with normal personality. WOMEN choose my friends, remember. It is not your game..it is HER!!! This is simple truth. As a man who has been on both sides of the fence I can just smile at this “looks don´t matter to women” bullshit.

    Looks DO matter to women MORE, MUCH MORE, than to men. This is the secret many attractive men know..and this is precisely the secret that women do not want beta men to know. Feminine imperative wants you to think that with some level of “game”, confidence, money, provisioning, behaviour, etc..you CAN compete with Adonis types. You CAN´T!!!

  • jf12

    @stuttiere
    I agree with this: “women will shit-test you multiple times before they bang you.”

    I agree with this: “Women will always shit test you – it’s like death and taxes”

    Therefore I disagree with this: “If they shit test you they are interested.”

    And similarly I disagree with this: “They never make it easy.”

    A shit-test is designed to spurn a man, to make him feel deflated, *because* she’s not interested. Women are so weird, however, that she may change into being interested within mere minutes. As soon as she becomes interested, the shit tests cease immediately, but only for the duration of her feeling interest. During this time of interest, she makes it easy for him. For some men, the ones she’s really attracted to, she makes it easy from the get-go, w/o any shit tests.

    This is the reason I don’t like being tested. I’ve got no problem with passing the tests, seriously the passing is trivial in the extreme, but I despise the position of being tested.

  • Urban Meyer

    As a 5’8″ man, I will say that height is not everything, but being in top shape is very important. The confidence you get from having a six pack translates to lots of female attention. I received a lot of attention from girls in high school but didn’t know what to do with it. In college I started to figure it out. There’s a video by Tyler RSD that talks about how useless it is to compare yourself to others because there will always be someone taller, richer, stronger, better hair etc. Closing takes more than just looks, you have to have the right attitude.

    The guys on here who say height is everything are using a self fulfilling prophecy to cope with their own situation. Rollo is right, dealing with things in absolutes leads to nowhere.

  • gunslingergregi

    well I guess good if more guys can think like that lol @ gregg

  • gunslingergregi

    Professor Von Hardwiggs
    Tall + buff + Spartacus face = he can bang an 18 year victoria secret supermodel””””””’

    highest paid Victoria secret model is Gisele Bundchen she is 33 years old
    Adriana Lima age 33
    Doutzen Kroes age 29
    Alessandra Ambrosio age 33
    Miranda Kerr age 31

    so yea no 18 year old Victoria secret supermodels its where they go to die
    he he he
    for porn yea umm if that is your forte prob older but also anyone can fuck them incuding you don’t have to look good just have loot

  • gunslingergregi

    wow they got current angels at 40 years old

  • gunslingergregi

    36 year old current
    yea I can see where your problem might be in basing your hottest chicks on Hollywood and such instead of real life
    the pics ain’t really real teams of makeup people and all that

  • Novaseeker

    Muscles is the red pill equivalent of the women’s knee-jerk reaction to how many men lack sexual success, to say that you need confidence. Not so. I’ve met many a real Alpha who lacked self-esteem or confidence in getting laid for some odd reason and women still jumped them. With the same note said, I’ve traveled all over Europe. Met many younger and older men and I’ve seen more women and men than I can count stars in the sky and the amount of muscular men I’ve seen are only a handful. Muscles might work with some women. But most women say they want a muscular man like Brad Pitt.

    That is not muscular at all. That is average and easily attained. Why is it that I don’t see guys rushing at the opportunity to have a lean chest like Brad Pitt? Because in Brad Pitts case, its his facial looks that make him attractive.

    One social aspect that I’ve noticed where it concerns buff men.

    Tall + buff + Spartacus face = he can bang an 18 year victoria secret supermodel.

    Average + buff = Women don’t even notice.

    Short + average face + buff = tryhard with a Napoleon complex. Coming straight from the women’s mouth.

    Again, no-one is saying that it isn’t *harder* if you are short. It is. Some women, like the one mentioned there, will dismiss you outright no matter how buff or charming you are. That’s true. But there are plenty of other very attractive women who won’t dismiss you based purely on your height if you have other stuff going on. Your pond is smaller, but you can very definitely improve your odds within that pond by making yourself better.

    Or … you can sit around and bitch about how hard short guys have it compared to tall guys. Your choice, I guess. From my perspective, it isn’t a very masculine choice, but it’s your life, not mine.

    As for musculature and so on, you do need to be aware of the market-specific parameters, and they do differ somewhat by culture — that is both by general culture, then by specific society/country and also, to some degree, by location/city. That is, while certain characteristics are *always* in demand, the degree to which they are emphasized by the women in a certain culture/country/place differs. So you need to know your market, in other words. I travel extensively to Europe, Asia and Latin America on business, and it’s quite obvious to me that the market demands of the women in these markets differs — not completely different, but different emphases in each place. In the United States (which is where a lot of the commenters here are living), musculature is of greater importance than it is in both Europe (somewhat) and Asia (greatly), while in Latin America it differs by country (some countries are more Europeanesque while others are less so). Height is extremely important in Europe, even more than it is in the US, especially in the Central and Northern European countries that have taller average heights than the US does, and not really as important, in relative terms, in Asia (again, because the average heights are smaller), while in Latin America it again differs by country. And in the US it differs somewhat by city as well, although that is becoming more homogenized other than for a few outliers. Again, the key is to know your market, and adapt to it — and if you happen to be in a hell market for shorter guys, you need to work harder to get somewhere in that market, true, but that’s just a part of your life’s challenge.

  • gunslingergregi

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Victoria%27s_Secret_models

    check that reality if it Is accurate I guess

  • jf12

    So why aren’t more men getting face surgery?

    If I knew then what I knew now, I think I would have gotten facial bone structure surgery forty years ago to butch up my dork baby face. Except there never seems to have been a good time for it. Actually money was not a real issue, although perceived value is. Being now an old man, I realize time has a way of ruggedizing anyway.

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