Game and Circumstance

circumstance

“Don’t be mad E. It’s not our fault you were born without the sport fucking gene, come on.”

 

At the start of July, 2011 (a month before I began this blog in earnest) I took a backpacking trip through the Great Smokey Mountains in Tennessee and North Carolina. This was due to my desire to unplug, go off the grid and get back into the real face-to-face world. It was only for 10 days but well worth burning 10 days of PTO for.

It was an educational experience meeting people, most of whom have very little online presence beyond using Twitter or FaceBook occasionally. I didn’t have cell service for most of the hike. The people I met along the way, and I’ll put this politely, were “salt of the earth” people. Some were other hikers, others were people who lived and worked in the few surrounding communities. It was good to reaffirm my ability to survive on my own and realize that there is a whole world of Men out there who live well, far beyond the influence of “men” who’ve never mowed their own lawns, much less lived by their own wit in the country. Guys who build muscle by working outdoors, not in a gym. I met beautiful women who worked in small diners you’ll never hear of. I fished rivers and streams, for dinner some nights, and I saw fireflies for the first time (I grew up in southern California, it’s a novelty).

At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame. We’re far too insulated by the Buffers of technology. Even the more belligerent rednecks I encountered still preferred to text their girlfriends and came off as pussified for doing so.

I guess what I’ve come to realize is that we tend to view what we ‘know’ about men and women from the experiences we have reported to us from all over the world on blogs, forums, the manosphere  – and I still endorse the purpose of it’s unwritten mission – however, this trip reaffirmed for me that there is no substitute for real interaction. Game will work equally well with the cute blonde serving coffee in a rural diner as it would with the club girl in NYC. Both are equally given to the same feminine fundamentals we’ve untangled about women in the ‘sphere for over a decade, but the one we tend to use as a female archetype is the typical club girl for our examples. Daisy Duke is still subject to hypergamy, she just applies it differently.

I’m not turning into Roosh, but I’m considering burning a couple months doing the entire Appalachian trail all the way to Maine.

In my day to day life I deal with a lot of rich men. Every patron or boss, every general manager I’ve dealt with for the past 15 years has been a millionaire. The primary owner of one of my liquor brand is that many times over. None of the “business friends” I shoot golf with have weeded their own lawns or installed a radiator in 20+ years. When I was on the trail I thought about how ridiculous it would be to see a guy like that or some PUA guru having to dig his own toilet and take a dump in the woods, or hoist his pack in a tree so the damn bears don’t eat the only food he’s got for the next 3 days. These guys are insulated.

I want to run, and fight, and fuck, as well as I deal with the ‘civilized’ things I do. Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.

Game and Circumstance

I start off with this today because this experience wasn’t just humbling, but it also taught me that what I experience day to day isn’t at all what a majority of men experience. My past, my N count, my 18 year marriage, and what I do professionally sets me apart in a way that I sometimes don’t appreciate or take into consideration when I’m advising men.

It’s also very humbling and affirming when I receive emails or comments from men living in countries I’ve only seen in pictures who nevertheless share a common male experience that reinforces many of the things I write about – but even within that commonality, I have to remember, my circumstance is not theirs.

I walk through a casino almost every day now and I see the same people. Not the fun glamour you see in commercials or ads about Las Vegas (that’s usually night promos), but the real people, the overweight, housekeeping and table crew, the geriatric spending their savings and social security on a hope they’ll win something significant, the desperate and the people just looking for distraction.

I walk by some of these men and think “how is Game going to help a guy like that?” While I do believe that Game is universally beneficial on many levels (primarily between the sexes, but not exclusively) there’s a point where that improvement is going to be limited by a guy’s circumstance, where he is in life and what he’s made of it so far. It’s a manosphere cliché now, but most men aren’t ready for the red pill. The red pill awareness is simply too much for them to accept within the context of their circumstances.

That circumstance isn’t based on age or a particular demographic, but Game is only going to be as liberating for a man in as far as he’s willing to accept it in terms of his own circumstance.

Not Just Sex

Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings.

That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy, nor is it what most (80%+ Beta) men even have the capacity to actualize for themselves. But, as Game has evolved, it isn’t just about Spinning Plates, or sport fucking, it’s more encompassing than this.

Game is, or should be, for the everyman.

“He only wants me for sex” or “I need to be sure he’s interested in me and not just sex” are the admonishments of women who really have no introspective interest in how a majority of men really approach becoming intimate with women. Oh it makes for a good rationale when women finally “want to get things right” with a provider, but even the excuse belies a lack of how most men organize their lives to accommodate women’s schedules of mating.

Mostly to their detriment, the vast majority of men follow a deductive,but anti-seductive, Beta Game plan of comfort, identification, familiarity and patience with women in the hopes that what they hear women tell them is the way to their intimacy will eventually pan out for them. Their Beta Game plan is in fact to prove they “aren’t just in it for the sex” in order to get to a point of having sex with a particular woman.

I always find it ironic when men tell me that their deductive plan for getting after it with a woman is to prove he’s not actually trying to get after it with her. However, this is what most men’s Game amounts to; deductively attempting to move into a long term monogamy based on what women, saturated in a presumption of gender equalism, tell him he ought to expect from himself in order to align himself with her intimate interest.

I could use the term “appeasement”, but that’s not what most men want to call it. Most men call it being a better man (for her), better than “other guys” who wont align themselves accordingly. It becomes their point of pride in fact.

Male Long Term Security

Most men, average men – and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense – want a form of security.

Most men are designed, perhaps bred, to be necessitous. To be sure , men need to be constant performers, constant qualifiers, in order to mitigate hypergamy. In the past, and to an extent now, this performance simply became a part of who he was as a man and didn’t require a constant effort, but increasingly, as male feminization has spread, men have been made to be necessitous of security.

I would say that desire for long term security differs significantly from women’s Beta Bucks side of hypergamy need since the drive to secure provisioning is an innate part of women’s firmware. The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards – and ultimately avoid feminine rejection.

In today’s feminine-centric social order, men are ceaselessly bombarded with masculine ridicule, ceaselessly reminded of their inadequacies, and endlessly conditioned to question and doubt any notion of how masculinity should be defined – in fact ridicule is the first response for any man attempting to objectively define it.

It’s this doubt, this constant consideration of his own adequacy to meet the shifting nature of women’s hypergamic drive, from which stems this need for security. The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.

The average man will look for, or create his own rationales to salve this necessitousness. He’ll create his own ego in the image of what he thinks he embodies best as being “Alpha” or he’ll adopt the easy doctrines of equalism which tell him women and men are fundamentally the same rational actors and convince himself he’s not subject to the capricious whims of feminine hypergamy because men and women are more ‘evolved’ than that– but that nagging doubt will manifest when the right circumstances and right opportunities present themselves.

Changing Your Programming

I mention in the book that I am not a motivational speaker, I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be the self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not Rollo Tomassi’s success stories, but their own success stories.

That said, let me add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will, they can be masters of their circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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eon
eon
8 years ago

I think that the divergent comments are all valid. People are talking about significantly different levels, while using the same label. To induce primal feelings in a woman, it seems that a man often needs to be at the very top in terms of physical attractiveness or definitive performance (he must routinely deal with obstacles in the manner of Alexander, and she must be convinced that he would deal with her in the same way, and without hesitation). The mimicry or internalization of some levels of alpha traits through Game can and does work, to get even attractive pussy, or… Read more »

Tilikum
8 years ago

@narec

the path you are on has nothing on it for you but more bitterness and anger. change behavior, control the system.

you CAN be coached out of this wilderness you are in.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

re: “he comes away from this as a learning experience that has improved his game”

Which is the correct way to view it. The alternative is thumb-sucking sulking.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

Somewhat OT, MMSL continues his degamification, presumbably due to financial circumstances. I’ve yet for him to present any evidence that lessening the alpha ever works better for the man.

xsplat
8 years ago

That Anne Gus writer of satire who wrote that short guys should be offed is a spot on satirist. I’m guessing she must be a he. Funny stuff, but most of the commentors chime in with “this is satire, right?” if they clue in at all. http://thoughtcatalog.com/anne-gus/

AnonS
AnonS
8 years ago

Steady female arousal wasn’t on the table for most men in history. And men were never taught to expect it. Women can’t love men in the way they want and feel they need, so get it out of your head to make that your goal. Most marriages in history started as fulfilling more basic needs and were transactional. You would get an arranged marriage and basic masculine behavior combined with the built-in dread game of being cast out or the accepted level of light corporal punishment kept women happy. It wasn’t like a harem of women lusting after you was… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

jf12: “Which is the correct way to view it. The alternative is thumb-sucking sulking” Okay, then why are you on this site? Why are you reading about female hypergamy, solipsism, and how feminism is destroying society? Just pop the blue pill in your mouth, wash it down with a glass of the Kool-Aid(tm) and go on living happily ever after. Either your red pill, and you accept the whole truth about female and human nature (not just pick out the parts that suit you and make you feel like you have “secret knowledge” to give you an edge”), or you’re… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@narec, the relevant truth about female sexuality is that you could get you some if you bothered trying. That abundance mentality is the opposite of blue-pill hoop-jumping.

Game Is Transactional
Game Is Transactional
8 years ago

Women do hate inferiority of any kind. Especially the kind that short men illicit. They’re damn near repulse by the sight of one. Much like how a man is repulse by a fatty when he sees one. But unlike the fatty, the opposite sex (the female) doesn’t have a fetish for short men. You can just have a look at this twitter account: https://twitter.com/heightismwatch Some quotes are: “Short men brings out a short fuse with me. They got the nerve to be confident.” “Right! Short guys should just be banned from earth.” “short guys are irrelevant.” “Ugh death to all… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

tf12:
Me and most of the guys here with my views, have been going on about how we’ve been in the game for years, and how we’ve been getting rejected and ignored at clubs/parties/work/school, while the good looking and tall guys were getting easy attention and sex, but we just need to “try”? Are you trolling?

Game Is Transactional
Game Is Transactional
8 years ago

“But the point of some of the previous comments seems to be that, for a woman to be able to feel primal desire and express the resulting behaviors, a man’s attractiveness or performance must be at a level high enough to trip her deepest internal psychobiological switches, over which she has no control….If, however, you are trying to use Game, after the fact (of your level of attractiveness or performance, at that time), to induce primal feelings (to make her want you to the depths of her being), then you are actually trying to negotiate desire, and Rollo has already… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@narec, I agree good looking and tall guys get easy attention. But I absolutely disbelieve you have tried game for any length of time without any success.

narec
narec
8 years ago

What is game tf2 ? I did the original style/mystery game after I read “The Game” in the late 2000s, with it’s stupid routines.. Eventually I realized that at some point you have to stop being the dancing monkey at the bar and see if she actually wants to fuck you. Unfortunately DHV stories sound fake and contrived coming out of a short beta (I certainly know anyone like that would get blown out of any set involving any social circle I’ve been in), and they’re not going to “build attraction” as Mystery said. Only innate things like looks, or… Read more »

You Probably Read My Book and seen my Videos
You Probably Read My Book and seen my Videos
8 years ago

I’ve been in the Game for near a decade now and close to everything stated here is the truth. The reason we don’t spread this type of talk (i.e. looks are king when it comes to true desire) in the community is because it does more harm than good to a newbie. You tell him this stuff and he’ll have a hard time approaching a girl because he’ll shut himself out of the mating pool. I had a student obsessed with looks and deep inside I knew he was right but I also knew that his mentality wouldn’t do him… Read more »

George
George
8 years ago

Caprizchka, I “care” because it’s extremely irksome to me for anyone to be so intellectually lazy, shallow, condescending and assuming of others that they would apply such a superficial “list” of “qualities” “required”. When the lists involve alternate prerequisites for primary qualities lacked, it becomes obvious the policy list maker is living in a fantasy world avoiding reality and unable to relate to another human being. You are relating to your list. The list is primary and supersedes real people. It is true that some qualities are reasonably desired and there is nothing wrong with that. I really don’t give… Read more »

caprizchka
8 years ago

@jf12: *Where is this unicorn? Is she at the other end of the rainbow?*

I think this writer describes her pretty well: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/why-you-should-hit-on-hot-girls-out-of-your-league/

caprizchka
8 years ago

@George,

You sure told me. I’m so sorry to offend you by addressing you. It won’t happen again.

Tom W.
Tom W.
8 years ago

Plan for 6 months on the trail, if you decide to do it. Most take 5-6 months and run into reality 2-3 months in, after taking many zero days, either because of illness, weather or just loss of motivation and they take days off. We ran into a young guy ‘Glacier Freeze’ was his trail name, I think, who was trying to do all 2200+ miles in 100 days. We met him 65 miles from Katahdin and he was at 102 days, planning on finishing the last 65 miles by the next night (e.g. 28 hours later). Do the math.… Read more »

Prov Erbs
8 years ago

Any good thoughts on how to unplug for just a half day or a few hours when it’s hard to get away? I find it very difficult, and yet I know this is exactly what I need.

Huckster
Huckster
8 years ago

@You Probably Read My Book and seen my Videos In other words, you lie to garner sales of your ‘book and videos’. How special. What if your MD treated you the same way? Or your HVAC contractor? Or your plumber? Or your electrician? Or your roofer? Did your client know before he paid you that you were going to lie to him? Was that in the contract? Didn’t think so. You know what that’s called, right? FRAUD. That’s right, you deceived your clients and TOOK THEIR MONEY. YOU are precisely the reason that the manosphere exists—a place where men can… Read more »

Huckster
Huckster
8 years ago

@You Probably Read My Book and seen my Videos “I sell fake Rolexes.” “The reason we don’t spread this type of talk (i.e. Rolexes are king when it comes to true Rolexes) in the community is because it does more harm than good to a newbie.” (IT PREVENTS THEM FROM BUYING FAKE ROLEXES.) “Deluding yourself is nothing wrong when it’s to your own benefit.” Hey, to all of Rollo’s readership, did you read this? These are the scum who prey on YOUR insecurities. That’s right, YOU. Do you want to live by this worldview: “Deluding yourself is nothing wrong when… Read more »

George
George
8 years ago

Rollo,

Considering your comment above “You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.”

In your mind, is there little more to human life than the quest of man and woman to mate? Are we only nothing more than puppets of our glands enslaved to a lifelong compulsive frustrating sex drive? Reading this site and the comments herein certainly reflects this possibility.

George
George
8 years ago

Prov Erbs,

Consider a day or two of very challenging work or something extremely physically challenging. Get out of your comfort zone. Do something outrageous (but reasonably safe), bungee jump, skydive, something to shock your system. Nothing beats a through heart pounding sweaty work out, healthy food and good rest.

George
George
8 years ago

Caprizchka,

I was not offended. Don’t attempt to use me as an excuse.

George
George
8 years ago

Caprizchka,

The writer of http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/why-you-should-hit-on-hot-girls-out-of-your-league/ is 99.999999999% likely to be completely full of shit. In reality hot chicks mate with hot guys. Only blind people would honestly not see this fact. Hot chicks do not have to wait for less than hot guys to ask them out. There are plenty of hot guys with the balls to ask hot chicks out. Are you attempting to fool everyone else here as effectively as you have fooled yourself?

Will
Will
8 years ago

@narec In a sense I am with you on what you’ve been saying. BUT You would be surprised with how stupid these “pretty boys” are and how much they lack game. My best friend is a 6’4” blonde blue eyed athlete and he was trying to hook up with this hb 9 and she straight up said to his face that “hes kind of a square” and he didn’t know how to react. First of all if you have game at all you wouldn’t be getting called a “square”. Anyways it’s proof that even the good looking dudes have the… Read more »

Mazrim
Mazrim
8 years ago

Thank you Rollo for another great and timely post. Somehow like that dependable friend, you always seem to write the right thing at the right time. I feel like you and Robert Greene must be some kind of hedonist prophets or something.

narec
narec
8 years ago

Will: Your comment is completely irrational. It’s like saying that some skinny little nerd who regularly gets the shit beat out of him at school is going to have an “advantage” in a street fight over some brute that’s 200lb of muscle because the kid is used to getting hit. Facepalm. Yes handsome guys get hoops, rejections and blue balled sometimes but that’s because decent girls have so many OPTIONS. The pretty girl in your anecdote might have 20 other tall, good looking guys chasing her so she’s well used to their attention. You’d need to be hot + a… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

 looks are king when it comes to true desire
It is really truly that simple.
All other qualities are good, buy not as paramount

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@Prov Erbs, the solace you seek can be found by following instructions. Choose a strong password, preferably at least 20 characters, a random string you cannot remember, and don’t write it down. Then try, futilely, several times with the wrong password until you are locked out.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@caprizchka, I’m not going to read Heartiste, but I probably don’t disagree with him at all, if he’s saying hot girls are usually as nice as non-hot girls. The point I was trying to make is that I do no know of *any* women who naturally *tend* to be kind and submissive and giving to most men *ever*.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

It still hasn’t ceased to amaze me that “some people” think women have magic pickers, and magic eyes, and magic intuition, and are so hard to mislead.

cryo
8 years ago

A lot of whining in these comments. Even if it were true that looks are of paramount importance and short men are doomed, crying about it and adopting a victim status only makes you that more unattractive. Men face hardships and are often lead thankless lives. This will never change. You may get people to feel sorry for you but in the long run this will only make you more resentful. Take control of your life the best you can. Harden the fuck up. Find something to devote your mental energy to that isn’t totally rooted in the self and… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

jf12: “It still hasn’t ceased to amaze me that “some people” think women have magic pickers, and magic eyes, and magic intuition, and are so hard to mislead.” You have got to be joking. You sound like the same kind of mindless game-enthusiasts that say unattractive guys get rejected because “women have the ability to sense if a guy is bitter”; ie: MAGICAL POWERS. You know, the type that lets girls read the minds of ugly guys but get caught completely by surprise when the handsome psychopath rapes and kills them. Please share what kind of lies, tricks, or Machiavellian… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

I don’t know about Nick, but I’m quite familiar with Roosh. I distinctly remember one of his posts where he said he was tired of fighting tooth and nail to get the attention of chubby, 5/10 arrogant American chicks in the club… Then he did a tour of Eastern Europe where cute skinny chicks grow on trees, and they all have a thing for tall, exotic looking guys – and he was American to boot. Literally all he had to do was approach, he said so himself. There was no “game” So there, lol. Don’t believe me, find the article… Read more »

Will
Will
8 years ago

@narec I’m not saying that “pretty boys” don’t have an advantage. I’m saying that a girl’a “gina tingles” are fueled by more than just the “looks” factor (which is 99.9% what we base our boner on). You would agree with me if you saw an ugly guy who had high status fuck a hot girl in which she was making orgasm noises. (I’ve witnessed plenty of it in my early 20s time). We wouldn’t be bringing an ugly administrator or woman CEO or whatever to bed and lust for them like girls do. Yes looks give you an edge but… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@narec, it’s *attractive* guys who get rejected because they’re bitter … Unattractive guys get rejected for being unattractive. Steps to overcome that, given that you’ve given up on being attractivein looks. 1. Stop being unattractive in behavior. Stop anti-gaming. Kill the beta. Up the power. Up the decisiveness (whether stupid or not it doesn’t matter). 2. Numbers. Aproach. Approach. And approach some more. 3. Meet new women in *comforting* situations to them. Day game, not bar game. You’ve indicated you don’t succeed trying to be the biggest battleship in the night game ocean. And probably you’ve found that being a… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@cryo, re: “Find something to devote your mental energy to that isn’t totally rooted in the self and the fulfillment of base desires. Otherwise you’re no better than a woman.”

I agree. For example, a woman is better suited to fulfilling someone else’s base desires …

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

The hole in the bucket brigade is sure to trot out the Groucho Marx club membership paradox any time now, wearisomely.

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

Narec is onto something.
Game will not compensate for poor looks. Instead, Game will give added benefit on top on ones looks

George Meeks
George Meeks
8 years ago

Rollo,

I agree. Your work is great. It is specific, concise and accurately communicates the details & dynamics articulately and effectively.Thank you for re-clarifying.

Beauty is Truth
Beauty is Truth
8 years ago

Rollo, I don’t doubt Roosh or Krauser get laid. Hell, I’ve been in the game for about 6 years and yes it does help you get laid. What I’m get at, and what narec is probably trying to say, is that Game does not bring primal desire to the table. Game is a form of persuasion and I can see why some commentors would say game is transactional if you think about it. You can extract primal desire off of women below your inherent SMV or those close to your own, but receiving it from women above your own? That’s… Read more »

jacklabear
jacklabear
8 years ago

@ narec It sounds like you really enjoy your victim posturing pity party. There is a ‘game’ in Transactional Analysis called Why Don’t You, Yes But (WDYYB) The way it goes is player A says “I have this problem, does anyone have any solutions?” Then player B says “Why don’t you do so and so” and player A responds with “Yes but that won’t work because of this and that.” Then players C,D etc offer solutions, which A responds to with a “Yes but…”. Finally everyone gives up. Then they all get the payoff. Player A gets to confirm his… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

jf12: I can handle the anonymity and alcohol of night game sometimes.. but I’m not capable of doing day game at this stage anymore. Even good looking guys are too pussy for that. Getting humiliated in front of a bunch of people in broad daylight and having to scurry away like a weirdo or criminal .. I’m pretty sure it would push me into a deeper depression and self destructive behavior. Any normal guy with human emotion would react the same. Other than that I agree with the rest of your post, other than #6 which I don’t understand. Anyway,… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

narec, being a Sleeping Beauty is the single most completely wrong strategy for any man even if he is a beauty. Acknowledge knowling that fact, i.e. acknowledge that you’re not infected by Elliot Rodger’s insanity, or else I see no point in responding further. You’ve already acknowledged you don’t see ANY actual value in you pursuing what YOU say is the optimal strategy, i.e. paying a small fraction of your lifetime earnings, probably less than you charge at restaurants probably, to increase your facial attractiveness.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

Following up on a link, I found this gem.
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/

Basically, if you’re feewing unsuccessful, then fill up your ego tank. This procedure works *best* when you depressively say nothing will ever work.

Tilikum
8 years ago

for the looks matter dum dums,

this is soooooo easy. the looks a man is judged on are based on his utility.

if you are short, ugly, AND have a bitter and hating personality….you have no fucking utility. your utility is an aggregate measure of ALL qualities, not the average of three or four or even 12.

women’s utility IS their looks. thats why they are so damned skittish and neurotic.

fin.

Mr. BangYourGf
Mr. BangYourGf
8 years ago

Even Alphas get cheated on. I’m below average in height and looks but I’ve always been aggressive in my dealings with women. It always pays to be bold even if the bitch isn’t digging you. I remember being at a party not too long ago, and hooking up with my friend’s g/f. Now, before you start with the morals and ethics of all of this, read on.* My friend is above average in looks and height. The guy was 6’2 and good looking to boot. He lacked muscle but he had a very imposing frame just because of his height.… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
8 years ago

Anne hasn’t been the only woman to speak against shorter men. There’s a reddit/r/short and most men there complain of the same, even if they only approach women who are 4’11” they end up rejected. A few of the visitors who are 5’11” and above said they had been rejected by women because they were ”short.” We could make a case for status making up for a lack of good-looks or height, but even the Captain of the winning world cup team. Germany, has been dubbed as the magical midget, lol Way to treat a guy who’s considered by the… Read more »

Mr. BangYourGF
Mr. BangYourGF
8 years ago

Truth is, good looking or not, no one is safe in this market. I’ve always held the belief that hypergamy can’t be quenched. Hypergamy is, by its very nature, insatiable.

Just have a look at this thread:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150741733

Guys from all shapes and sizes get a cruel brush with the hypergamic drive of women. Some learn and some don’t. Neither is important but what is important is realizing that NO ONE MAN IS SAFE from hypergamy. It is a strong and primal force that will shun you, your investment, sacrifice, and any other thing you can think off.

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
8 years ago

”I’ve personally known average (not ugly) guys who’ve practiced and internalized Game (even rote PUA Game) who’ve hooked up with women well out of what should’ve been their associative mating value. I’ve also known guys with such creative talent, status and affluence who’ve done the same. Was it ‘genuine desire’? Hard to say, but if it wasn’t, these guys didn’t much care because they had predictably regular enough options with other women that they weren’t so concerned with losing a plate they were spinning.” I don’t know. The older men whom I’ve met through my father have either been guys… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
8 years ago

”Truth is, good looking or not, no one is safe in this market. I’ve always held the belief that hypergamy can’t be quenched. Hypergamy is, by its very nature, insatiable. Just have a look at this. I remember that thread and others like it. A lot of those young greek gods have tried to go down the ladder in looks, to try to catch some fish, but they can’t attract any woman. I’ve seen very good-looking men having to drink themselves to a stupor to find any attraction for the trolls who want to sleep with them. ”t NO ONE… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
8 years ago

Rollo is totally right when he says that beta bucks are part of the female sexual strategy duality. In most cases the beta bucks are spent by average men with no hope of a quality return in the form of sex from good-looking women, but rich men can acquire what some men have for free. I was staring at the new Transformer female lead. She’s 19. She has Austrian, French, German and English blood. Her mother was a model and her father is a 72 year old man. He fathered her when he was 53 and his wife was in… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

Jf12: I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. Taking an active role, and thus experiencing more social rejection, would only cause more suffering and destructive behavior as per the resource model of ego depletion in the article that you linked. It seems you like to share knowledge about the things you are interested in, rather than address the issues I raised. Rollo: I don’t know about Jake, I can’t empathize with someone who gets free attraction and then squanders it. And you said he fucks them anyway, so I don’t see the relevance here. The relevance to an… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

“Anyway, so you’re at a party. A tall guy with a masculine face walks up. He mentions a quick anecdote. Everyone pays close attention. Everyone laughs at the right times. Everyone’s first impression is “this guy is cool, confident, a natural born leader”. ” A tall guy with a masculine face walks up. People turn toward him, but he does not look them in the eye at all. He mumbles when he talks, holds his beer up to his chest like he’s protecting himself, has his entire other hand stuffed in his pocket. He slouches. He makes a comment which… Read more »

Max Power
Max Power
8 years ago

A lot of people aren’t naturally confident. If they try to walk into a group and start talking shit it doesn’t seem congruent. I see it a lot.

And a lot of us are defeated. Not just short ugly dudes. A lot of us are just average and not “hot.” It seems like there are people laughing and partying and hooking up and we’re on the sidelines our whole lives.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

@Max, “A lot of people aren’t naturally confident.” Lack of confidence is a killer. It kills the initiative to make something happen, and it squanders shit dropping into your lap. Years ago, while Blue, Blue Beta, I was leaving an after work get together with a group of people in the city. It’s 1am. I live in the burbs. Most of the people I work with live in the city. Tall, slim (swimmer), blonde girl I work with, 8, announces: “Hey, anyone who doesn’t live in the city and wants to crash at my place, you can.” She then turns… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
8 years ago

I have friend who has a number of things working against him. He’s short, sorta goofy looking, big eyes. Resonant voice that doesn’t fit his 5’4″ build. He’s scrawny. He’s loud, often obnoxious has no social grace, and no internal censor. His personality in low energy state is goofball, in high energy is full on weirdo. Looks bad on paper, crappy job, no money not a candidate for Beta Bux. Terrible fashion sense, likes to wear hats usually seen on old Russian men in the 1930s. Yet he is almost never without a girlfriend. He was once engaged to an 8,… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

Guys are we seriously arguing that looks are not important.

Are you guys kidding!!

Looks are SO important. As are Game, and Power/Money.

Heartsie says Power is #1 (I agree), then whats next – LOOKS! They are the physical embodiment of your genetic worth!

Whats more important than that!

Steve H
Steve H
8 years ago

Everyone seems to be missing the key point that while primal desire cannot be negotiated, primal desire is not solely generated by looks. For example: pre-selection. Take a hot escort out to a bar, or just any attractive female friend, and watch how your results vary. Yeah, not looks-related at all. And I still definitely don’t concede the point about how men can be late-bloomers and get absolutely no action at 25 but get far-above-average action at 30-35. If looks were everything, the 25 y/o would never experience a barren dating wasteland – according to you ‘looks purists’. Again, I’ve… Read more »

Will
Will
8 years ago

Bahaha @rollo I love the yareally reference. And @narec if you believe that it’s the innate looks that fuel a girls desires than accept that a realize you won’t get the hottest models. You cannot change your looks it is a set variable. So why dwell on it? Do what is in your control. Working on how to have fun with a girl it is a skill you will need to have regardless of how hot your girl is. And when you start getting better at it come back to this blog in a few years and give some field… Read more »

Will
Will
8 years ago

Just one more example for @narec My buddy was the basketball captain 5’11” NOT facially attractive at all had pimples everywhere on his face. And yet he still indirectly gamed this hb 9 that he went to school with and was fucking her for like a year. Status/power is the most important. Guys with looks are more likely to be squares and not know how to tease girls etc again I’m not saying looks don’t give you an edge. Again you can’t change looks much so we’re saying do other things that attract girls because there are other things out… Read more »

The One Reason
The One Reason
8 years ago

Badpainter:
Most guys think he’s a riot and so he wins over the men. He’s not the AMOG but he’s usually AMOG approved.

In other words, he flies into a set under the radar, without triggering any AMOG tendencies and posturing from the alphas/orbiters/etc. This is the relative “utility” of being (relatively) unremarkable in looks. They’d have no idea of what will hit them. A classic Ya archives situation.

narec
narec
8 years ago

Seraph: Maybe I wasn’t being clear.. The halo effect (and it’s reverse.. colloquially the “Failo” effect) is completely independent of the actual personality and behavior of the person. If you are attractive, people will assign positive personality traits to you. If you are not, they will do the opposite. Full stop. This is scientific fact. “People tend to believe attractive people as smarter, more successful, more sociable, more dominant, sexually warmer, mentally healthier and higher in self-esteem than their physically unattractive people” – (The Psychology of Persuasion, R.B. Cialdini) “People pay more attention to physically attractive strangers than to unattractive… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

One more motivational kick in the pants for the anguished: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/unify_uploads/files/Johnson_etal_2013_TREE.pdf Cognitive biases have proven to be adaptive. Let that sink in. Haselton’s error management framework has nearly universal applicability (and no, you’re not some special ugly snowflake). Although most probably your perceptions of reality are wrong, even if your perceptions are correct and all of reality really is telling you it is time to turn in early for your dirt nap, the consequences of stopping trying to reproduce are so severe that it *always* makes more sense to ignore reality and try harder anyway by expecting that you will… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@narec, your entireattempt at analysis at 9:16 is completely wrong. And I know you know why.

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

narec: Realism is the heart of the red pill. If you have anything working against you whether it be looks, finances, personal history, etc. it IS going to be harder. Theory does not invalidate experience. Accept whatever limitations you have and make the best of it. Game can help you though and actually will make an impression on that oneitis. But, trust me, by the time she comes back, (even if she doesn’t run) you won’t want her. It may realistically take talking to thousands of people to find what you’re looking for, so remember to keep yourself the priority… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

jf12: my analysis is completely correct and supported by objective evidence, not anecdotes and attacks on the other persons character Seraph countered my scenarios by making the good looking guy act like an beta and making the ugly guy act like a beta, and thus they were rejected and accepted by the group, respectively. But the entire point is that people’s Halo Effect perceptions are completely independent of how sociable, funny or “confident” the person actually is. Do you understand? A good looking guy would literally have to shit himself in front of everyone to not be immediately positively welcomed,… Read more »

narec
narec
8 years ago

*ugly guy act like an alpha sorry

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

narec,
I agree with you.
you are not insane. You are not dissociated from reality.
Guys nothing compensates!
Game will not compensate shitty looks.
That’s like saying being funny compensates for being jobless with no income.
The idea of compensation in mutually exclusive categories is whats dissociated from reality.
Looks =/ social savvy (Game)

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

re: changing Game. I’m not getting any sense from narec or any of those guys that they ever tried anything but build-a-better-beta which they mistook for game. None of what they are saying makes sense to me otherwise. I don’t see that they actually tried old style make-yourself-stand-out Mysteryish game, nor devolution into caveman game “You, me, now” (which is much more effective than one might theorize …), nor jerkboy game, nor winggirls, nor anything at all, really. All I see is them wishing, effeminately, that they could be Sleeping Beauty.

narec
narec
8 years ago

Yes Nathan, that’s what im trying to say. If a woman doesn’t find you physically attractive, if she thinks she can do better than you, nothing you say or do or show (“game”) will make a difference. If you can fuck 7s, why would you fuck a 5 just because they’re “confident”? Rollo: yes I have read that article when I found this site. It mentions the word “game” 100+ times yet is very vague about specifics. And it lauds it in a way that a reader outside the community might think it was some sort of Jedi Force or… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

No tricks.
Be authentic.
If looks are your deficiency, don’t try to paper over that with game.
Instead go get cosmetic surgery and work out.
A healthy person addresses the REAL issue.
A nonhealthy person compensates in another area.
Compensating in another area.= inauthenticity. And = a trick.
People HATE tricks

narec
narec
8 years ago

No jf12.. I haven’t. Well, maybe a bit of teasing “jerk” stuff but everyone does that.

But neither did you

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

narec asks rehetorically “Am I wrong?”

The 80% of ugly guys who get laid (sometimes) anyway all answer “You are wrong!”

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

re: People HATE tricks. Then women aren’t people, which isn’t far from the truth.

Treating women like men like to be treated doesn’t *work*. Women LUV drama and conspiricies, especially invented ones.

Max Power
Max Power
8 years ago

@Nathan

So getting plastic surgery is the real Red Pill

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

Guys, ugly guys do not get laid. I’ll repeat, they do not grt laid.
men do not get that much sex.
http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/2014/07/illusions-and-structures-how-sexual.html?m=1

NahReally?
NahReally?
8 years ago

“Where’s YaReally when I need him?” You must be joking. That guy is a keyboard jockey and RSD chode rider. I’ve looked at his archive and he spews lies much like these other PUA con-artists. Just have a look at this post: http://www.yareallyarchive.com/2013/2/#comment-heartiste-407840 I can’t believe some guys actually fall for this stuff. As for what’s stated in these comments, I agree wholeheartedly. True primal desire cannot arise by Game. It comes from the aesthetic pleasure people see in each other. Just think about it. In cavemen days, game was practically non-existent as a driving force because what females relied… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Professor Von Hardwiggs
8 years ago

Mr. Tom Cruise is 5’6” if I’m not mistaken. Well, he is short for an American man, but the guy is seriously handsome. He looks much better in his 50’s than most guys do in their 20s and he’s aged pretty damn well. Men of great natural looks usually keep those looks,like some women like Nicole Kidman and Jennifer Lopez keep their SMV pretty high. A short height can be compensated by a very handsome face, indeed. If the women are average or the men around the shorter dude aren’t remarkably. very rich men like Tom Cruise can snag hot… Read more »

caprizchka
8 years ago

@jf12: “…I’m not going to read Heartiste, but I probably don’t disagree with him at all, if he’s saying hot girls are usually as nice as non-hot girls.” Actually I believe what he is saying is that a population of hot girls are vulnerable and insecure. I’ll add to that that the motivations for keeping oneself in top physical form are myriad. One of those motivations is “to please”. That by no means means that all “hot women” are primarily motivated “to please” only that some are. “The point I was trying to make is that I do no know… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
8 years ago

narec wants an instruction manual for game. This reminds me of all the MBAs and other business students running round campus reading TQM, as Sun Tzu in the ely 90s and then complaing it ddn’t work at their various McJobs. The mistake was that the teachers didn’t explain TQM is applied critical thinking not a how to guide, Sun Tzu is philosophy not a strategy guide. Together they are a path to a zen state. Game seems the same to me. Rollo, Roosh, Roissy separately have many valuable things to say. Taken together they a critical thinking process about socio-sexual… Read more »

Steve H
Steve H
8 years ago

“Badpainter: Most guys think he’s a riot and so he wins over the men. He’s not the AMOG but he’s usually AMOG approved. In other words, he flies into a set under the radar, without triggering any AMOG tendencies and posturing from the alphas/orbiters/etc.” Or maybe this guy is just genuinely friendly and social with women AND men. Without any agenda, other than the fact that he – like all men – would prefer the outcome of getting laid that night. But he’s not attached to that, because he has abundance, so he simply endeavors to have a great time… Read more »

el
el
8 years ago

jf12

“re: People HATE tricks. Then women aren’t people, which isn’t far from the truth.”

Good to know.

P.S. Please unfan me on hp. No tricks. Tx.

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

“A bald guy with a topee is still bald. Average men with Game are still average and Game – the imitation of the behaviors and psychological characteristics of Alpha men – can
not atone for low genetic quality.”

BINGO

VRW
VRW
8 years ago

I actually think Lemmy has a traditional, rugged, masculine look. he might be a little ragged, but I can see how some would find him handsome. looks for a man the key is rugged, not pretty. maybe better idea to give yourself scars on your face than cosmetic surgery!

Badpainter
Badpainter
8 years ago

SteveH- “Or maybe this guy is just genuinely friendly and social with women AND men. Without any agenda, other than the fact that he – like all men – would prefer the outcome of getting laid that night.” Absolutely true. Everything you said. But if we out on the town there was an agenda. The only noticeable difference was if we were in class he’d chat up any of the girls without concern for what came next, just a friendly guy. At the bar if he wasn’t making headway he’d find a way out of the conversation as quickly and… Read more »

Nathan
Nathan
8 years ago

@Rollo,
Another sometimes interesting blog you may wish to skim through from the culture (nurture) angle:

http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/?m=1

NahReally?
NahReally?
8 years ago

“I also don’t subscribe to the Roissy model of confidence being itself the source of arousal, but rather that physical bearing and appearance are rewarded by female attention, thus increasing sexual options and thus increasing confidence.” I wonder why Roissy tries so hard to delude himself and suppress the idea of good looks on his blog. I mean, I get that it’s a game blog but he should get rid of his head line, “Where pretty lies perish”. I think he secretly knows the importance of the things you can’t change (looks and height) because in doing so, it would… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

NahReally proposes an alternative universe in which cavewomen chased after pretty caveboys “People back in the day didn’t have time for courtship, they perceptually went after what they found to be good looking in another mate.”

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

Professor VonHardwiggs opines “Compensation does compensate, except when I say it can’t.”

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@caprizchka, I appreciate your comments at 1:30 pm. To prove it, I admit that as a young volcano I for one very much wanted a nice young virgin to ignore her survival by flinging herself into me.

Your casual mention of prostitutes causes me to amend my statement regarding women reacting properly to niceness. Although most prostitutes are too hardbitten by life in general, a large fraction are very nice and appreciative of niceness in men.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@el, I can’t. It won’t let me log on anymore even for that. No tricks.

You do know that I was talking to a man who was projecting his view of how men-as-people behave onto women? Moreover, I don’t believe you actually disagree with my interpretation of when women say they want to be treated as a human instead of sexually.

Seraph
Seraph
8 years ago

Narec, Thank you for clarifying your position. This might be long, so I will make it my last thoughts on the subject. Yes, I understand the concept of the Halo effect. It is not a new concept. It has been known that good looking people are assumed to be smarter, nicer, more moral, etc, for a long time, despite the obvious evidence they are not. My issue with your position is the extremities to which you carry it’s perceived effects: “A good looking guy would literally have to shit himself in front of everyone to not be immediately positively welcomed,… Read more »

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

@el, I hope you knew I did think of you, baiting you, when I posted that exact comment, but I didn’t think you read here. This is the floor of my unsilent sea, and these are my ragged clawmarks.

I have eaten the mermaid’s peach while she sang to me. So, there’s that.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

Oh, btw I won’t detail trouser unrollings or anything, so no worries.

jf12
jf12
8 years ago

BTW, el could vouch if she would that a mere 5% of my life ago I too thought looks were the only key.

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