Why We Fight

“Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” – Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

In the almost nine years of of this blog I have only hit upon violence on a couple of occasions. I’ve only been in a physical altercation a handful of times in my life. And by that I mean real fights; the kind of violence that requires you to physically harm another person. I’ve been in lots of sparring fights and martial arts tournaments, mostly when I was in my 20s and 30s. While I’ve been hurt and caused hurt to my opponents, I can appreciate that there is a qualified difference between competitive sport fighting and real violence. The one mutual interest my younger brother and I had when we were growing up was beating the shit out of each other. By the time I got to high school I was no stranger to taking a fist to the chops or various headlocks and “wrassling” holds.

Most of the times I’ve been in real fights were in high school. It’s interesting just how Darwinistic our teenage years really are –we’re just too immature to appreciate it then. Unless you grow up in a sheltered family, learning about sex and violence is usually part of our adolescent experiences. After high school I got into a few fights when I was playing gigs in the late 80s-90s Hollywood scene. Depending on where we played and who we happened to piss off, those kind of fights were something you had to keep in the back of your head as being a possibility. Usually you had friends or bandmates who had your back, but not always.

Of those scuffles most of them were versus a drunk guy who presumed he could kick my ass, or my bandmate’s ass, because, well, we weren’t exactly the most physically imposing guys to be honest. And a lot of those fights were initiated in one of two ways; the guy was fed up with guys like us because the women (usually in some sexy outfit) preferred to fuck guys like us – or, the fight was provoked by a woman and the guys fighting were coming to blows over who’d fucked whose girlfriend. Often enough it was the girl herself who’d later admit she “made a mistake” and one or the other found out.

All of that was back in the late 80s and early 90s. Things have definitely changed with respect to how violence is initiated, normalized and respected (or delegitimized) today, but the basis of that violence will never change. Violence is part of human nature. We do ourselves no favors in denying this simple fact. I can remember in 2001-02 when I did casino promotions for this new ‘sport’ called King of the Cage. It was the forerunner for today’s MMA fighting, but back then it wasn’t as socially acceptable as it is now. I believe Nevada was one of the only states that could legally host such an event. The outcry then was that it was an underground ‘bloodsport’ and legitimizing it as a true sport was the first step towards degenerate social savagery. Or something like that. People used to be appalled by it.

Now MMA fighting is something I’ve seen some Evangelical Christian churches use as a draw to get their men to attend a ‘masculine revival’ weekend. Warriors for Jesus with a ‘saved’ MMA fighter speaking about using his sport as a ministry. I think there’s a primal, evolved side of men’s nature that makes violence attractive. And like love and respect, violence is another aspect of the human experience where men and women’s approach and understanding is innately different.

Boys and men are innately drawn to competition, combat and violence. We make ‘guns’ out of our fingers. We craft weapons from scraps we find in the garage to defeat our ‘foes’. We love our plastic army men and G.I. Joes, our cowboys & indians, and we play ‘war’ with our friends. Our video games from the first coin operated arcades to our immersive virtual reality consoles are about combat and strategy. Even sports have been called a “proxy for war”. Team sports are a facsimile of tribal competition. Human males’ physiology, by and large, evolved for combat and physical stresses. I realize that might be hard to believe by today’s standard of masculinity, but the evidence is there.

The male Burden of Performance began with a need for testing that performance against our primal environments and some very real opponents. I have read some interesting research that suggests human beings are innately risk averse. Most humans would rather avoid conflict than voluntarily engage in a fight that they could very well lose, if not die from. The logic is that humans’ success as a species is at least partly due to our evolved sense of caution for life and limb. If you cooperate and play it safe it’s likely your risk-averse genes would propagate into future generations.

Of course the flip side to this can summed up in an old Latin proverb,…

Fortune Favors the Bold

There’s also research that shows men experience a spike in testosterone levels after defeating a rival in combat, and/or killing their opponent. This doesn’t even have to be actual violence; some studies show men experience a similar spike when their sports teams win a significant game. So, while in some instances avoiding conflict and backing down from a dangerous engagement has survival benefits, risk taking and enacting one’s will by force also has some reproductive benefits. 

For as much as they rail to the contrary, women do have an affinity for violent men. Women get turned on by men with a capacity for violence. Modern psychology attempts to pathologize this arousal prompted by dangerous men (hybristophilia), but, by order of degree, women evolved to select for men with at least the perceived capacity to do harm to another man. I would speculate that this attraction stems from women’s evolved need to seek security and protection from men, and sympathetically, men evolved an innate protectionist aspect to our own evolved firmware. Competing with rival men for sexual access, sometimes violently, is part of our ancestral programming. As we developed into a more ‘civilized’ species that competition shifted to contests of performance between men, but the old violent firmware is still part of humans’ starting package.

Let’s You and Him Fight

On Twitter and a few past livestreams, I’ve pointed out that women today have developed a false sense of security with respect to the potential of real violence. This is equally a result of the masculinization of women as it is our accommodating the Feminine Imperative in mainstream cultures. In the age of social media, as the globalization of women’s entitlements have spread, so too has women’s entitlement to personal safety. 

One very real downside to the Fempowerment narrative is that it has convinced women that the fantasy of the “strong female” is something they can aspire to personally. This is what I’ve called the Warrior Princess fallacy: Over the course of generations our feminine-primary social order has convinced women that they can realize the same warrior role as men. Via storytelling in various media the ideal that physical differences in men and women are relative, and women can be “just as tough and dangerous as men” is pervasive. This is a dangerous precedent, and one that is a direct result of old order beliefs in, and popularization of, Blank Slate equals. 

In the idealized fantasy society of equalism, masculinized Amazon Warrior Princesses can give as good as they get from any man. But in the real world, men evolved for physical performance, competition and combat; women evolved to endure the rigors of childbearing and nurturing. And as the introduction of transgendered biological males into biologically female sports divisions is proving, the realities of our physical differences is unavoidable.

However, the idea that women are always entitled to physical protection in the new order presents some interesting dichotomies. Women mix an entitlement to personal safety with an expectation of clichéd female bravado. Remember, this all happens in the context of women’s innate solipsism; add a bit of alcohol and the social posturing of a group of women all vying for attention on a Friday night and you begin to see the volatile potential. Today’s women have grown accustomed to initiating or escalating inherently unsafe circumstances for themselves – to say nothing of the men they’ll involve.

Women have a limbic understanding that, for the most part, they can be violent with relative impunity. If a male ever strikes a female, even in self-defense, she can be assured that a mob of random males, following their evolved protectionist directive, will spontaneously form to beat the shit out of the guy. In today’s Blue Pill engineered society, even the most passive male waits for an opportunity to prove his quality to womankind by becoming ‘justifiably’ violent in defense of a woman. It’s what most men are conditioned for for most of their lives.

“Sorry babe, I don’t know what came over me. I just can’t abide by any man assaulting a woman!”

The old, vestigial, evolved response of violence is something our male hindbrains know will trigger ‘gina tingles in women. The primal ideal of the nobleman with the capacity to unleash justifiable fisticuffs is Blue Pill conditioned psychological red meat. That the woman provoked or escalated an unsafe situation isn’t even an afterthought – the guy raised a hand to a woman, opportunities to prove a legitimate capacity for violence are rare for low SMV men.

As such, women presume safety. Women will raise hell about feeling unsafe around men. They’ll bleat about fantasies of enforcing a ‘male curfew’ (only for undesirable Betas of course) out of safety concerns. We’ll hire security staff to walk a woman across a dark parking lot and install emergency call boxes on college campuses. But in social situations (particularly when drinking) will escalate inherently unsafe situations knowing that men will play by the old order rules.

There is an old PUA maxim that picked up on women’s penchant to provoke men to violence. It was called the Lets You and Him Fight dynamic. Whether women are aware of this and deliberately provoking a fight between men, or, their subconscious motivates the conflict is a debate that’s been around for a while. But the LYHF dynamic is a shit test women will use in assessing a man’s Alpha status. Women need indignation as it is, but in this dynamic is a woman’s hindbrain wants a visceral response from a man.

I first became aware of the LYHF shit test when a friend had told me how annoyed he was by his girlfriend starting fights with guys that she expected him to finish. She would honk the car horn from the passenger seat if someone had even slightly cut them off in traffic. Even flip off other drivers if the opportunity presented itself. She would start fights with other women which would provoke their boyfriends to step in on their behalf and he was tacitly expected to kick their ass to defend her provoking them. “What are you a pussy? Go beat his ass!”

I’ve tackled the subject of shit tests numerous times on this blog so I won’t belabor them here, but this test plays upon some very deep, evolved, intersexual and intersocial dynamics. On some level of consciousness a woman wants to know her man can get violent. Most Blue Pill men find that suggestion appalling. We’re supposed to be “above all of that”, right? For the most part I’m sure the majority of men would rather not be put into a position of taking a fist to the face. As such we build social conventions and rationales around not engaging physically in a real sense. So, to consider a woman might desire a man with a predilection for violence prompts them to qualify that woman for his own safety.

Intrasexual Competition

“Any group is weaker than a man alone unless they are perfectly trained to work together.” – Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

When a group (tribe) of primates reaches a certain number of members the potential for ‘hostile takeover’ by lesser males becomes almost a certainty. Beta male primates form coalitions to overthrow an existing Alpha leader. Most dominant Alphas instinctively cull this coalition building to ensure their position. A smackdown, abuse, punishment for anything that looks like a challenge to his position from lesser male troop members is something Alphas do to infrequently teaming up on him. Partially this is a display of dominance (social proof reinforces it), but it is also a curbing function.

Eventually the Alpha becomes weaker and less effective at enforcing his dominance, and the Betas grow in number until such time that they can band together and depose him. Then the cycle repeats with the most dominant male among them assuming the Alpha role. He gets access to the most fertile females, kills off his rivals’ offspring (which prompts the females into estrus) and reproduces for as long as he’s able to remain in that position.

And yes, I’m aware of the theory that pro-social Alphas that build loyalty-exchanges among other males, and display a willingness to share resources with females, tend to make for better ‘leaders’ within a tribe. What most of that research conveniently leaves out is the element of envy and jealousy that develops (even among primates) in the Beta male population until the sentiment reaches a point of challenge. Even the good-guy, prosocial Alpha has to watch his back.

As you might guess, many of these behaviors are paralleled in humans. Alpha displays of violence, even if by proxy, are ‘sexy’, but mostly we manifest male prowess in social displays. Athletics, resource acquisition, peacocking, conspicuous consumption, really any costly signaling of high sexual market value. To compete with these Alpha displays, lesser males must either: 

  • Increase their own value, and learn to display it effectively, 
  • Find ways to convince other men, (coalition building) and reproductively viable women, that those displays are worthless, while propping up his own displays as more valuable.

In the age of social media and mass communication Beta males are constantly reminded of their lesser positions. There’s no respite. Even the most well-meaning, prosocial Alpha’s presence is a reminder of Beta male inadequacies. High school bullies and ‘Jocks vs. Nerds’ is a constant theme across human cultures because the evolved human male experience is always one of competition and a Burden of Performance. To be male is to compete, and as such there will be winners and losers.

Deposing, or disqualifying, an Alpha – much in the same way primates do – is also a constant theme in human cultures. Beta males enacting ‘justice’ on an ‘evil’ Alpha or an Alpha proxy has always been a teenage fantasy for boys. Spiderman, Captain America, the wimp who incredibly transforms into a powerful Alpha himself will prove to the world how that Alpha power should be ethically used. The geek who gets the girl because she magically sees his superior quality that aligns with the terms he’s establishing as valuable is also a fantasy. All of these cast the Alpha as ‘oppressor’.

“O, it is excellent to have a giant’s strength, but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant.” – Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

Why is using strength, displaying value and exercising will an act of ’tyranny’? Why is restraint of power a moral imperative? How did we come to disqualifying value displays? I’ve seen a few talks by Jordan Peterson where he promotes the idea that a real man is a dangerous one who possesses the capacity for violence and oppression, but has the strength of will not to use it. This then begs the question, how does anyone know a man even possesses this capacity if he’s not to display it? Concealing strength is awesome, but it is, by definition, indistinguishable from weakness. No one knows if you’re a black belt or a white belt until you get in the ring and fight. However, the moral consensus is that it’s unacceptable for men to display value.

This then is the global, social coalition that was formed by the majority of lesser men. To continually disqualify the merits of superior men is individually taxing and makes lesser men look worse for doing so. But build a social order around men self-policing their displays of value; then you have higher value men doing the heavy lifting for lesser men. You may be powerful, but the social mores of the time (created to serve the majority of lesser men) will tell you to conceal it. In fact, they’ll build social conventions to convince the whole of men that displaying vulnerability, not strength, is a display of value.

Most of what I’m digging at here is old order thinking. Socially enforced monogamy has primarily served the greatest number of Beta men. And while it’s definitely been a stabilizing factor for civilization, I can’t ignore that the social expectation of monogamy is also the result of society-wide coalition building among lesser men to ensure that greater men wouldn’t out-breed them. Most male-specific social conventions are designed to control men’s innate directives. Their latent purpose is to teach rules that limit displays and usage of strength.

And in the new order we see this old order intersexual competition struggle to keep pace with a global sexual marketplace that centers on women’s innate mating strategies reseting context of intersexual dynamics. Open Hypergamy incentivizes men’s overt displays of higher value – and now on a worldwide scale. In response, men form online coalitions to disqualify those displays in an attempt to devalue the strengths of men they couldn’t hope to compete with in the old order. Meanwhile, women in the global sexual marketplace continue to reward men who display genuine value according to their mating strategy’s needs. 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

205 comments on “Why We Fight

  1. We’re turning into a police state with mass shooters.

    But, we have the best amusement parks and shopping malls on earth.

  2. Vidoes like these make me reconsider visiting US, lol. Too many guys are walking time bombs, the elliot roger type of guy, the middle aged guy who got fired and wants revenge, the crazy cop,etc.
    America is scary man. Sure, knife crime is crazy lately in UK, but what you have in US… I think maybe only Brazil might be worse,lol.

    You got to be fucking shitting me.

    The U.S.A has love and other things.

    Fight Club is not a thing here.

    You are making shit up.

    Visit the fly over states.

    They are lovely,

  3. “Which gets back to my question about WWE / MMA style body slams in the street. What’s that for?”

    Blaximus
    Self defense and ( hopefully ) ending the conflict. The streets aren’t WWE/MMA rings.

    Thanks . I’ll keep that in mind.

    But if a guy body slams a guy multiple times, he’s doing it wrong and he’s going too far. Conversely if you are the ” slamee”, maybe you should rethink your attitude.

    The WWE body slam is performance art. Some of the MMA slams are imitations of WWE.

    Imo, the objective in a street level conflict is to end it asap.

    If I have the time to pick a man up, hold him chest high, and drop him onto the ground…I have the time to do other things, and I won’t be vulnerable to any of his friends in the process.

    What’s that dramatic, showstopper move actually for?

    Although I cannot not confirm it, I’m pretty certain that at least 2 combatants who attacked me received broken ribs. It happened because they weren’t trained fighters and walked right into body shot combos that most 1st year amateurs could have seen coming.

    So why didn’t you body slam them instead?

    2 things I’ve yet to see irl: A guy get body slammed and rise back to his feet, and anyone kicking an unconscious person in the head. But hey, times change I guess.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone body slammed on concrete unable to get up. Ever.

    I was taught ( by a multitude of caring men ..lol), to END the fight as soon as possible, lest the tide turn against you….and you get body slammed. I dig the fight videos, but in at least half of them I can’t understand what the point is.

    Watching some of the vids Sentient has linked to I see goombahs performing for other goombahs by body slamming goombahs. In one case, there’s a curb in the picture off to one side; drop some goombah such that the back of his head smacks that curb, and he might never walk again or even breath unaided. Or he might just wind up Dead Right There.

    People get free room and board for years from stuff like that, but the accomodations aren’t 4-star by any means.

    Again, what’s it for? If it’s to stop the fight, there are other ways.

    Maybe you have a point about the current generation watching too much television/videos or something. Fighting is only done out of necessity and self protection, or in some cases the protection of others.

    Lol, that’s not what I’m seeing on those vids. A lot of them are just slapfights that get out of hand.

    Fighting techniques that have a serious probability of causing grave bodily harm or death shouldn’t be used casually, or just because one’s posse is recording the vidja. Because there’s a lot of other cams around in the modern world, and some of them can be used as evidence in a trial.

    When the WWE guys do a body slam, it’s theater on a mat. When WWE guys do it, it’s in a ring again on a controlled surface. Doing that stuff in a parking lot or on a street where a rock the size of a soda can or even a pack of cigarettes could ruin everyone’s day is foollishness.
    It’s like people who get a gun “so I can scare people away”. Usually girls, but not always. A smarter and wiser man than me said this:

    If you wanna scare someone, get a really ugly mask.

    Same thing with this whole WWE / MMA body slam – if you want to stop a fight, stop it, don’t start showboating. It reminds me of some Tae Kwan Do practitioners I used to know who were all into showing off their super-high “head hunter” kicks. Looks kool. Bad things can happen on both sides. Meh.

    That’s my point. Know what you are doing and what the risks are.

    My other point I was gonna comment on, the whole ” Let’s you and him fight ” thing.

    It’s hardwired in women as part of hypergamy, and contrary to blackpillers it’s not inevitable, it’s just a factor. Women have been trained to restrain themselves for millennia, it’s not impossible to do – or to hard “NEXT” those that are too stubborn. But it’s there, and it can peek out at strange times. I’ve seen it in a surprising number of women, but it wasn’t until the last few years I understood it.

    IMO women who grow up in a blue collar / working class environment learn early not to do that stuff, but brats and snowflakes who have been helicoptered over…don’t learn any number of things. Some can be trained, some not so much.

    tl;dr
    “You and him fight” is hardwired but controllable, any woman who can’t / won’t control it is a hard NEXT.

  4. “What’s that for?”

    Sentient
    Breaking arms? Could be yours though…

    Watched the vid, don’t see a body slam. What I see is a fight going to ground, which is probably more common now that MMA has become popular. Yeah, someone’s arm got broken and the fight stopped – so it wasn’t really much of a fight. The haymaker punches on both sides are another tell. People break bones sometimes from tripping on the sidewalk and landing wrong, too.

    That kind of bum-rush opening is worth watching and knowing about. One can adjust the tool set and how they are carried accordingly in order to solve that problem. You wouldn’t see me in a vid like that.

    Speaking of vids, it’s astonishing how ubiquitous cameras have become. Last time I was in a city back East I entertained myself one afternoon by looking for cameras. Every Federal building from courthouse to post office has CCTV cams. Every bank. Every office building. A lot of hotels. Some stoplights have remote controlled cams. Many stores and shops have discreet cams. Everyplace I went I was on someone’s video cam, and that’s not counting all the phones people carry & vid anything and everything of interest in the street, in the restaurant, in the bar, in the museum…

    When we are out in public, we are on someone’s camera and the imagers have very good resolution nowadays. Everything we do can be seen and likely replayed later, for any audience. Prudence suggests behaving accordingly. Choose fights with care, that’s my suggestion.

  5. Blaximus
    Seriously tho, I think all boys should have mandatory fighting lessons taught by qualified professionals.

    Yup. Even just Golden Gloves is a good thing for various reasons starting with “self control”.

  6. Stefan
    Vidoes like these make me reconsider visiting US, lol.

    Waah, blackpill much? The same rules apply in the US as in Europe and Asia:

    Don’t associate with stupid people.
    Don’t go to stupid places.
    Don’t do stupid things.

    So for example I wouldn’t go wandering around the area of Gare du Nord in Paris nowadays after dark, by myself or with children. Nor would I hang around some suburban parts of Rome after dark – the subculture there would see me as something like “food”.

    That vid Blaximus put up from Arizona (Gilbert if I remember right) is a tragedy that spawned lawsuits – but the drunk guy on the floor is still dead. He was doing stupid stuff with a pellet gun that scared some old lady, and the lead cop on the callout was Mr. Gung HO! A bad combination. It still could have been defused. I could have avoided that situation any number of ways, but the first would involve NOT getting really drunk in my hotel room and NOT waving what appeared to be a pistol around next to a window. Just for a start.

    It’s a big country, and there’s some of just about everything around. Including some amazingly kind people, and some amazingly bad ones. Don’t be stupid.

  7. “Most of “his” work is done by his seconds.”

    i appear to stand alone, but the truth is i stand on the shoulders of giants on a daily basis. it’s as if multiple generations have toiled in relative obscurity for my singular benefit in this moment

    it’s really easy to do great work when you know you can’t take credit for any of it

    when the student is ready the master appears seems more true the longer i’m at it

    i find tons of positives with being the student, but very few with being the master

    and as far as violence goes, i consider pain to be the greatest teacher of all

    in a fight, we’re both going to land blows. the question is, who can work through the pain to land the final one

    i have yet to encounter a situation where another guy thought, “yeah, today’s the day i want to see how much pain this guy can take”

    everything about me screams, “not today, buddy”

    prevention > cure

  8. “and as far as violence goes, i consider pain to be the greatest teacher of all”

    Mark Twain postulated that learning German would be quicker if making mistakes hurt, although I note that it didn’t seem to help him learn to ride a bicycle. He needed Pond’s Extract for that.

  9. OT:

    God help me, I’ve not only opened a Steam account, but I’ve set up a Windows 10 box. Curse you Age of Empires II Definitive Edition!

  10. kfg
    God help me, I’ve not only opened a Steam account, but I’ve set up a Windows 10 box. Curse you Age of Empires II Definitive Edition!

    Look at it this way: if COVID-19 gets as bad in your area as it has in parts of China, you are fully prepared to embrace your inner Hikikomori!

    Win-win-win!

  11. AR

    “That vid Blaximus put up from Arizona (Gilbert if I remember right) is a tragedy that spawned lawsuits – but the drunk guy on the floor is still dead. He was doing stupid stuff with a pellet gun that scared some old lady, and the lead cop on the callout was Mr. Gung HO! A bad combination. It still could have been defused. I could have avoided that situation any number of ways, but the first would involve NOT getting really drunk in my hotel room and NOT waving what appeared to be a pistol around next to a window. Just for a start.”

    It’s been a few years since that Arizona video, and every time I see it, it breaks my heart. Dude wasn’t any kind of threat, he was a bit drunk, scared to death and begging not to be shot.

    I think that video was in Mesa. I’ve spent some time in Arizona, and the cops in some towns are definitely a bit gung ho.

    Once just outside of Camelback, the chick I was in a car with was pulled over for going too fast in a construction zone ( speed dropped from 50 to 25 ). The cop was wearing mirrored oakleys and leather gloves….in Arizona…ona 115 degree day. He looked to be late twenties early thirties, and he was wearing a ” smedium ” shirt to assist with looking buff. I was in the passenger seat.

    He asked my girl for license and registration, and walked back to his car to run her information. Then he came back to her window and asked her what race she was ( He couldn’t tell if she was native American or Asian. She was Korean btw ), so just being me, I piped up from the passenger’s seat ” I’m black by the way…lol…lol . He leaned into the window, pointed his finger at me and said ” I didn’t ask you anything. You speak when spoken to “, then he said ” show me some damn ID right now “. He looked at my Jersey license and asked ” so you’re a tourist? ” and I said ” yup. You got a wonderful city here sir /sarcasm off “.

    Then I was told to step out of the vehicle. I had a couple of inches on him, and about 30 pounds. He unsnapped his gun, and patted my pockets. About that time, backup pulled in behind his car. After about 5 more minutes, we were sent on our way. ( my girl was genuinely perplexed as to why the cop was so rude to me…lmao ).

    Getting drunk in a hotel room isn’t illegal. In many states, pellet guns aren’t illegal ( in jersey they are ). Deadly force should NEVER be used against ANY unarmed person, especially when they aren’t breaking any laws. Some people shouldn’t be cops in any capacity, but the academy takes them as they come.

    Bright side: The cops in phoenix were much nicer. I was strolling through a neighborhood in Scottsdale admiring the sights and police were called by somebody. The cops pulled up to the curb and one rolled his window down and just asked ” are you visiting someone here ?” and I said yes, and he said ” address ” and I told him, and he said ” okay, take it easy ” and left.

    So add to the list of things not to do: walk outside.

    Lol.

  12. Blaximus
    Once just outside of Camelback, the chick I was in a car with was pulled over for going too fast in a construction zone ( speed dropped from 50 to 25 ). The cop was wearing mirrored oakleys and leather gloves….in Arizona…ona 115 degree day.

    Yeah, every force seems to have at least one. I can top that.

    Friend of mine was pulled over on Scottsdale blvd. north of Fashion Square by Scottsdale PD for something or other – maybe “failure to maintain a lane” or something equally faked up. Being a native of Arizona he was wearing his 1911 openly and politely pointed this out to the officer. Rather than just issue a verbal warning / written warning / citation, the officer just had to do the “must disarm for mah protection” dance.

    So my friend carefully removes his pistol from the holster and hands it to the officer, who is gonna show how he’s in charge by unloading it. Except he doesn’t know squat about a 1911, he’s got his issue Glock / Sig / whatever ant that’s all he knows. My friend offers to unload it but of course that can’t be allowed, so Officer Friendly winds up waving the 1911 all over he place trying to figure it out “the safety is RIGHT THERE” – he muzzles 4 lanes of traffic, his own legs and probably some pedestrians before getting the mag out and the safety off. Fortunately he didn’t drop the hammer and make it go BANG.

    Finally, he issued a ticket, put the gun on the hood of the vehicle and ordered my friend not to touch it until Officer Friendly was down the road. Moron. The whole drama was avoidable by just asking my friend to move slow and keep his hands visible. I wonder sometimes if that cop was a newbie who had just moved to Arizona, because now not only is open carry legal, but concealed carry is legal without any permit at all. So any car or person can be loaded with a gun or two. Moron.

    Contrast that with the Phx PD officer who once gave free advice to another friend on how to open carry but not scare the convenience store clerks. Then asked how he liked his gun, and told him about another place to shoot besides Ben Avery. Genuinely friendly officer.

  13. “failure to maintain a lane”

    this is a real thing.

    Back in the 80’s I had 2 cousins that became New Jersey State Troopers. After they’d been on the force a few years, there was a pre shift meeting one day where all the troopers in attendance were advised to pull over young black males in inordinately expensive cars. Yes, this was said with black troopers in attendance. Smh.

    They were advised to use ” failure to maintain lane ” on highways as the pretense. They were told to follow ” suspects ” closely for a few miles, and most likely they will let a tire touch a white line because they’ll be watching their rear view mirrors.

    So…

    Cousins just started pulling over young men of all races driving expensive cars. Lol. That went over like a lead balloon and they were told to cut it out and don’t be wise asses.

    Local ABC new affiliate was anonymously tipped off, and it became a big story ( I tried using the google to find the story, but so far no luck ). It fizzled out after a few years.

    Then this happened –

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/10/nyregion/van-shooting-revives-charges-of-racial-profiling-by-new-jersey-state-police.html

    The police were placed under federal oversight.

    https://www.nj.com/news/2009/09/nj_judge_terminates_federal_ov.html

    Sometimes police abusive tactics are a part of a culture that develops. It just rambles aimlessly along until enough people get killed to force a change. And to the cops, it’s just another day at the office after a while. They are just following orders and meeting expectations.

    At least it’s better here in the garden state wrt troopers.

  14. @Blaximus

    Found this vid a couple of years back. Quality dialog time between NJ state trooper and Bergen County undercovers. You may or may not have seen it. Real Socrates stuff. Should be used as a recruiting vid, “You, too can be one of these guyz!”

  15. Lol. Nope, I hadn’t seen that vid. So much ” jersey “.

    Well, since they’ve cracked down on steroid use in the police and fire departments, maybe heads will be cooler going forward. I think we have the most jacked cops in America.

  16. The 70’s….. Pre “woke”, pre- professional victim-hood discussion with “women’s libbers” and Playboy founder Hugh Hefner…

    The more things the more they stay the same. The best part of the interview is at 7;50 where Hef defends male and female differences….and at 8:53 while the lesbo is shaking her finger at him he casually lights his pipe.

  17. Somehow, I feel that a lack of masculine fathering contributed to the traffic stop kid’s death from the video Blax linked us to. Although there appears to have been a father in this kid’s life, I will not have done my duty to my son’s if they can’t game themselves out of this situation or any situation in which the probability of things going very wrong is not quickly assessed and appropriately dealt with. In this and many other cases, you assume a level risk that needs to be defused rather than escalated. This traffic stop could have been a very minor footnote in this kid’s life rather than the defining moment of his death.

  18. People , for the most part, aren’t taught to have a healthy fear of police. They believe that they have rights and that all police are good guys doing a tough job, laying their lives on the line every minute of every day.

    Granted, the kid thought he had a right to question the cop ( I’ve been pulled over for flashing my highbeams at a cop at night but cops are taught to gain compliance and control . It’s depends on the individual officer one encounters as to how off the rails things can go.

    Cops need to be trained how not to antagonize and escalate , and how not to execute unarmed civilians .

    Many times all the game in the world won’t help when you confront a robot .

    I’ve told all my male family to cooperate, don’t ask too many questions, don’t argue even if you are 100% in the right . On the side of the road your rights become sketchy and arbitrary .

    Lawyer and lawsuits later.

    Kid flashed lights . Issue a ticket or a warning. Deadly force should not be a consideration.

  19. Yes there is often a robotic approach to them and deadly force for cases like this can’t possibly be justified. As you say It’s depends on the individual officer one encounters as to how off the rails things can go. My recent traffic stop by a very matter of fact state trooper, ended without even a proper citation. Properly diffused.

    My 20 to 30 experiences with being pulled over has varied between the enjoy your day in Tijuana to the 5 to 7 state troopers trailing me for 5 miles on route 90, I was unaware I was going 110 versus 70, I had a legitimate excuse, but chose to belabor that excuse and needless to say that didn’t end with an enjoy you day in butt funk NY.

  20. Good stuff, crazy fight vids.

    Leg sweeps and trips are much better than lat-drops, suplex’, and body slams in street fighting.

    So, my background in competitive sports and “combat” is two-sport (Soccer, Wrestling) captain and MVP at university. I’ve coached both sports continuously at the MS and HS level up until this year, transitioning to do after-school activities with my 10 yo son. Coaching at the original school was taking time away from father-son stuff. I am 47.

    My ex and I (never married) have been split going on four years now. She’s marrying a woman this coming fall.

    I’m very fortunate to have followed in my brothers’ footsteps and played these two sports.

    I’ve gotten into some scuffles, but nothing especially violent, and since I see no reason to mess with most people, life is pretty peaceful.

    I have tremendous respect for all the tested martial arts, especially the striking ones, as my skill is far behind those who know what their doing.

    I agree with those who believe boys should do sports, and, even better, physical-contact ones that involve an opponent against you.

    Of note, the boys who have come through my wrestling program are some of the nicest, gentlest, playful, Understanding, and bright young men I’ve ever come across. They are also some of the most tough, pugnacious, and functionally belligerent amongst men, all at the same time.

    This is healthy development born out of competence and, in some cases, mastery of ones body and emotions through one on one (refereed, under the eyes of elders) combat.

    About boys though, they vary greatly, and many start off without a good toolbox, and culture makes them get away with staying weak of body. There is really no excuse for this, yet there it is. Not everyone is going to be a warrior.

    But that’s why there are lovers and magicians too, as archetypes amongst men. Still, not being able to do a minute of good pushups as an adult is embarrassing and not doing the individual or society an good.

    The downside of not knowing how to use ones body is huge, IMO. It leads to a life of greater fear than necessary, and makes people reflexively ask for society to become weaker to accommodate their own lack of strength and fortitude.

    As far as women fighting men, well, women have wanted into male realms for a while now, yet have no understanding of hierarchy or men’s ways.

    If I could clear up two things for women in general, in their heads, it’s the misunderstanding of men via Apex Fallacy, and total ignorance of the function and purpose of masculine hierarchy.

    Thanks for everyone’s comments. And to Rollo for the OP.

  21. Good stuff, Just Beers

    Of note, the boys who have come through my wrestling program are some of the nicest, gentlest, playful, Understanding, and bright young men I’ve ever come across. They are also some of the most tough, pugnacious, and functionally belligerent amongst men, all at the same time.

    This is healthy development born out of competence and, in some cases, mastery of ones body and emotions through one on one (refereed, under the eyes of elders) combat.

    It would be no surprise to you guys that I’ve never been in a real physical fight in my life. But have been in multiply cases of adversity. Over and over. Physical fights are not necessary to do battle. There is plenty of battles to do intellectually.

    I agree with the wrestling and the soccer. Been there done that. It’s graceful war. And served a purpose.

    And one can also make decisions along the way to engage or not engage in physical violence.

    I was back in college in the early 80’s. We had a thing that we signed up for… It was called the Bengal Bouts. It was a boxing program for undergraduates. Designed as a benevolent charity. And labeled as ultimately safe. I started out in it. But I fucking dropped out when it was announced that the bouts were scheduled on the weekend before I had three critical exams. And I already scored a C grade in both Calculus and English in my first semester of Pre-Med. I had my bell rung a few times and I realized going into exam week with a minor concussion was less important than my grade average. So I dropped out. Conscious decision 101. And it didn’t hurt my dignity. It was a good executive decision not to try to study and remember things with a dinged head.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_Bouts

    I remember 12years ago, my son retorting that he didn’t want to do football, baseball and basketball. Because we were making him do those. Lol. He came out the other end as a man ready to battle when needed. To get to the other side. Organized competitive sports worked well for him.

    From the OP:

    “I’ve seen a few talks by Jordan Peterson where he promotes the idea that a real man is a dangerous one who possesses the capacity for violence and oppression, but has the strength of will not to use it. This then begs the question, how does anyone know a man even possesses this capacity if he’s not to display it? Concealing strength is awesome, but it is, by definition, indistinguishable from weakness. No one knows if you’re a black belt or a white belt until you get in the ring and fight. However, the moral consensus is that it’s unacceptable for men to display value.

    Not so fast, Rollo. It goes to what you don’t feel/believe, The Jungian concept of The Dark Side. It’s there in spades all the time, everywhere in humans. It doesn’t mean that one has to display his evil, his dark side. It’s still strong and on display if not shown. A man fights his dark side, for the good. Even when one rises up to confront adversity in a paycheck, lack of sex, good parenting and treating others with respect and kindness. When you least want to.

    It’s a masculine thing to be attractive, don’t be unattractive in MRP parlance. Why we fight is not do do violence. It is to be released from constraint. In an evo-bio-psych way.

    One can have power in an organized social situation, or demonstrate it in a street fight. Take your pick. It’s not binary until it is. Every fight needs to be decided on whether to engage.

    It’s not the idiot that chooses not to fight when he can win anyway. The original post is circular reason. And what does it advocate for? Except that there are outside enemies that would have any one man constrained. Unless he chooses not to be.

    And as far as fighting? Far be if from me to cut and paste. But anyway.

    The whole flip side of why we fight is actually release from constraint–

    Deida Chapter 35 of The Way of the Superior Man:

    You Are Always Searching for Freedom

    The essential masculine ecstasy is in the moment of release from constraint. This could occur when facing death and living through it, succeeding in (and thus being released from) your purpose, and in competition (which is ritual threat of death). The masculine is always seeking release from constraint into freedom. The feminine often doesn’t understand these masculine ways and needs.

    Your basic motivation is to be released from constraint and experience the freedom on the other side. What are some of the most common forms of masculine ecstasy? Orgasm is one. The typical masculine orgasm, as you probably know, involves a build-up of tension, or constraint, until the dam finally breaks, and your tension and energy are released. The post orgasmic state is one of death-like peace, an emptiness akin to a blissful oblivion. The masculine is always seeking this release in one way or another.

    Most sports provide this masculine thrill of release from constraint into freedom. In football, for instance, the team with the ball is constrained by the other team that is lined up in front and ready to block them. The challenge is to break through the line and carry the ball to freedom. People with masculine essences become insanely emotional during this ritual of challenge and release from constraint into freedom. And if the freedom is achieved, men will shout and cheer, as if their deepest heart desire has occurred—and it has. This breakthrough into freedom, however it occurs, is the main motive of the masculine. All masculine goals—at work, on the meditation cushion, or on the football field—are directed toward more freedom.

    The typical masculine desire for freedom involves the feeling of death, which is the ultimate masculine fear and freedom, in one way or another. Orgasm is actually called petite mort or “little death” in French. You say that you hope your favorite football team “kills” the other team, and you celebrate your financial “killings” with great glee.

    You are probably also familiar with darker aspects of the masculine desire for freedom. War, which is motivated by the desire for freedom, is a quintessential masculine pursuit. Most sports are ritualized war, but actual war itself resonates with the core of most men. Even movies about war—men being at their edge, giving it all they’ve got, up against death itself, motivated by a higher cause—evoke intense emotion in men. The capacity to face death for the sake of freedom, whether actually in war or ritually on the football field or chess board, is the ultimate masculine act, evoking men’s deepest emotions.

    The same capacity to face death is necessary for spiritual freedom. To live free in spirit, you must be willing to face your fears and let go of anything that limits your love. The attachment to comfort and security is what limits most men in their capacity to make a spiritual touchdown. The other team is your own need for private security. You are fighting a war with your own self-sense. To be free is to die to your need to be a separate self. What, then, could be constrained? Ego death, absolute surrender to the point of oneness, is the ultimate freedom. Few men ever release themselves enough to relax in this depth of freedom because they are afraid of absolutely no stress. No stress means no thoughts, no sense of protected self, no mission to accomplish. The end of the masculine game.

    Yet, this stress-free, unprotected end of the game is exactly what you are always seeking, through orgasm, financial killings, or winning a war. You are willing to experience lesser forms of masculine “death” and ecstasy, but you are unwilling to face the death of your separate self-sense, and finally be the freedom you have only allowed yourself to taste in moments.

    Men will always enjoy facing forms of “death” and coming out the other side into freedom, whether in the form of boxing matches, cop movies, martial arts, orgasm, philosophy (the stress releasing “ah” of insight), or ego death. You must own the primacy of your desire to be free. Then, you can enjoy the lesser forms of masculine ecstasy, but dedicate yourself to its highest form: transcendence of the fear of death by facing the limiting stress of your own self-sense, and relaxing through it, into the absolute freedom you have always intuited at your core, but sought through only temporary means.

    The feminine, on the other hand, is not seeking freedom, but love. A woman’s bliss is not in emptiness, but in fullness. Her means is not release, but surrender. This is why a woman is upset when a man begins snoring after orgasm. He has finally achieved, in post-ejaculative emptiness, the blissful freedom from stress he has been seeking all day, one way or another. She, however, is hoping to experience love and fullness through sex, and a snoring man just doesn’t do it for her.

    The feminine seeks fullness and abhors emptiness. She will fill her empty shelves with nicknacks, seashells, and pebbles collected from special places. When she does not feel full of love, she seeks to fill herself with ice cream, chocolate, or conversation, rather than empty her stress through TV or ejaculation, as men often do. Her dark side enjoys the emotional aggression in soap operas and romance novels, rather than the physical aggression of boxing matches and porno movies. She longs to fill her sense of spiritual emptiness by surrendering her heart and being filled with love. Her basic means toward spiritual unity is surrender into the devotional fullness of unbounded love, rather then breaking through the fear of ego-death into the unconstrained infinity of absolute freedom.

    In the end, the feminine search for love and the masculine search for freedom reach the same destination: the unbounded and infinite ground of being who you are, which is both absolute love and freedom. But until you finally relax into the place you always are, your woman will continue to surrender—to you, chocolate, and shopping—in the hope of being filled with love, and you will continue to release yourself—through television, orgasm, and financial success—in the hope of being emptied of stress into unconstrained freedom.

    Control men’s innate directives? That’s not an old order/new order thing. It’s just a rational male at work.

    You play with women and men for a reason. You fight with them for a reason.

    Fighting for the sake of display is equivalent of issuing ultimatums. An example of powerlessness. Unless you don’t lose, or get a concussion. And come out the other side into blue skies. Without injury.

    That’s my Pat Steadman speech. And I’m sticking with it.

  22. “It would be no surprise to you guys that I’ve never been in a real physical fight in my life. But have been in multiply cases of adversity. Over and over. Physical fights are not necessary to do battle. There is plenty of battles to do intellectually.”

    Never in life? Not once? Not even in grade school?

    How is this possible with other people around, especially young boys?

    Nary a tussle?

  23. Lol.

    At least I can’t remember one.

    Everybody was nice where I grew up and lived. And actually cared about others. As I do now. And don’t need external validation.

    And we had a million other things to do. And still do.

    A million tussles with no punches thrown.

    So what you are saying is that is a poor display? Right?

    I am kind of worried about driving in traffic where my new side job is, though. A lot more variables all of the sudden outside my usual safe zone.

    And if something bad happens to me I might just collapse into a pile of mush.

  24. Sjf

    I have to admit, I read what you wrote Three Times and I still have no earthly idea what you’re saying/talking about.

    Zero.

    Most men do not have an ” evil ” side at all. Evil is cultivated. Evil flourishes when men don’t snuff it out, or when society decides to codify and excuse it. I’m not at all with this idea that men have to resist ” evil ” because it’s not possessed by everyone. The need to constantly restrain every aspect of manhood foments evil. Cultivates it. repression is 100% bad. Full stop. Expression can be fully realized without causing damage.

    There are evil people. Not everyone is evil. Simple.

    from the OP –
    “I’ve seen a few talks by Jordan Peterson where he promotes the idea that a real man is a dangerous one who possesses the capacity for violence and oppression, but has the strength of will not to use it. This then begs the question, how does anyone know a man even possesses this capacity if he’s not to display it? Concealing strength is awesome, but it is, by definition, indistinguishable from weakness. No one knows if you’re a black belt or a white belt until you get in the ring and fight. However, the moral consensus is that it’s unacceptable for men to display value.”

    A man is dangerous because he possesses the capacity for violence. Oppression is optional and not requisite. I see a lot of this manner of thought. The linking of violence with oppression and evil and all of that shit. This is false on it’s face.

    ” Strength ” is hard to conceal ( except for the fact that many people kinda drift through life with an amazing ability to be unable to read people and recognize what’s right in front of them ) among people. Strength, over time, will make itself apparent. Lack of strength as well, will become apparent.

    Do you think if you sat across the table from Ton, you wouldn’t sense something? Even if he didn’t say one single word? Even if he was dressed in a button down and tie, with a tweed sportcoat?

    “Not so fast, Rollo. It goes to what you don’t feel/believe, The Jungian concept of The Dark Side. It’s there in spades all the time, everywhere in humans. It doesn’t mean that one has to display his evil, his dark side. It’s still strong and on display if not shown. A man fights his dark side, for the good. Even when one rises up to confront adversity in a paycheck, lack of sex, good parenting and treating others with respect and kindness. When you least want to.”

    I do not know what you mean. Adversity in a paycheck? Why would you treat people with respect and kindness when you least want to? Better yet, why would you least want to in the first place?

    “It’s a masculine thing to be attractive, don’t be unattractive in MRP parlance. Why we fight is not do do violence. It is to be released from constraint. In an evo-bio-psych way.”

    Constraint? What is constraining you?

    “One can have power in an organized social situation, or demonstrate it in a street fight. Take your pick. It’s not binary until it is. Every fight needs to be decided on whether to engage”

    Nah, you can have both and should have both, always.

    Lol, I can tell you haven’t fought, just like you said. Sometimes, the fight gets brought to you without your approval, participation or control. Then your choice will be fight, or go to the hospital or morgue.

    You don’t have to do anything, but it is beyond my personal understanding as to how any man can be around people without confidence that he can at a minimum hold his own, or at least cause antagonists damage. Sounds uncomfortable, especially when shit breaks out ( even if it never ever does ).

    A ,measure of fearlessness is required imo. Men need to harbor as little fear in life as possible. Social or otherwise. The idea that everything can always be ” controlled ” somehow sound insane to me. Delusional.

    And we’re pretty much the same age. It’s remarkable.

  25. “Everybody was nice where I grew up and lived. And actually cared about others. As I do now. And don’t need external validation.”

    Lol. Yeah, me too. But 100’s of thousands of people will always present a few assholes.

    I never thought I would be born, live, and die all in the exact same place. It’s a big world out there, and I wanted the ability to be alright wherever I may roam.

    my fave lyrics –

    And with dust in throat I crave
    Only knowledge will I save
    To the game you stay a slave
    Rover, wanderer, nomad, vagabond, call me what you will

    But I’ll take my time anywhere
    Free to speak my mind anywhere
    And I’ll redefine anywhere, anywhere I roam
    Where I lay my head is home, yeah

    And the earth becomes my throne
    I adapt to the unknown
    Under wandering stars I’ve grown
    By myself but not alone

    I ask no one

  26. Speaking of “fight”, here’s a brief anti-fondling / harassment / rape vid clip from Finland. I think it’s serious but it’s on tik-tok so I dunno. It’s catchy and has a beat but I dunno if it’s danceable.

    https://youtu.be/d27vHyt2IPA

  27. You don’t have to do anything, but it is beyond my personal understanding as to how any man can be around people without confidence that he can at a minimum hold his own, or at least cause antagonists damage. Sounds uncomfortable, especially when shit breaks out ( even if it never ever does ).

    A ,measure of fearlessness is required imo. Men need to harbor as little fear in life as possible. Social or otherwise. The idea that everything can always be ” controlled ” somehow sound insane to me. Delusional.

    And we’re pretty much the same age. It’s remarkable.

    We are remarkably different. Note that. But we have some similarity.

    Who has not confidence and competence. Not I.

    Without confidence? YGBFSM? I’ve never heard as such.

    Who can not hold his own? A pussy can’t hold his own.

    My take is I’ve always had adversity. And I’ve never been a lay down pussy.

    So what you are saying is that I’ve never been in fisti-cuffs never actually punched someone out. Thanks for clarifying that. That violence is necessary.

    I’ve been around people all my life. And why people fight is not really a thing where I live. (hint: It’s not about fighting for the sake of fighting, to put on a show) It might be a big thing for you. And you might find it odd that I never put a fist to the face. So fucking what?

    I get it. You don’t understand my world. And that is OK.

    You don’t have to diss it. Unless you feel the need to do so. Yes it is beyond your personal understanding. Surely. You have no idea. Not understanding me is not in your best interest. And good luck with that.

  28. Most men do not have an ” evil ” side at all. Evil is cultivated. Evil flourishes when men don’t snuff it out, or when society decides to codify and excuse it. I’m not at all with this idea that men have to resist ” evil ” because it’s not possessed by everyone. The need to constantly restrain every aspect of manhood foments evil. Cultivates it. repression is 100% bad. Full stop. Expression can be fully realized without causing damage.

    That’s the whole fucking point of it all, full Jordan Peterson, clinically retarded: When Men don’t snuff it out. Because they can. That is the point.

    The whole fucking point!!!!

    And Bamm! That speaks to moral law.

    And, it’s not about every aspect of manhood. That’s a binary straw man.

    Ask me more if you have any question of where this thread is going.

    Men aren’t evil unless they want to be. Same for your woman.

    And let’s have a requiem from Rodney King. Because we do normal things like everybody else….Truly and surly.

    https://youtu.be/i2w8-M3nDwg

    I don’t know what you are thinking about. Because it doesn’t relate to or reflect me.

    Good luck moon..

  29. “Well, I will say this much sjf, every time we comment I learn something ( even if it’s the same things ).”

    I used to be more ignorant than I am 4 years ago. And I intend to be more well put together 4 years from now.

    It’s not about happy go lucky Micky Mouse.

    It’s not about not street fighting. It’s not like I haven’t had fights. Just not physical blow to the face. Not entire-ly necessary in my Mickey mouse life.

    You have this thing about cars.

    I also have this 11 year old vehicle. which works fine for me. Along with my 30 year old attractive wife which works fine for me. I drive a 165K miles, eleven year old 11 year old Honda Ridgeline. And she is perfect.

    And my wife is perfect too. And very well attractive.

    And most any problem I’ve had was my defect.

    But that’s not to say I’m defective or imperfect.

    Good is good.

    Good stuff is good stuff.

    You seem to have a bias for things are not good for you other boys. Everybody else that you see out there (men) fuck themselves up.

    I see you as having what you want and you live life well. So do I. Whats is the problem?

    I love you, man.

    Thanks for you value over time.

    I love your words.

    And I’d prefer if you’d refer to me as SJF rather than a diminutive sjf.

    Thanks.

  30. The focus going forward is not man v. man conflict. That has always been there and always will. Yes, men should learn how to fight. That’s a no-brainer. The focus going forward is man v. woman conflict. Enough of this alpha, beta, posturing. The old social orders are gone. Despite the instinct, it is the current culture that we should strive to live in.

    Women say they want equality. They really don’t, but men should give it to them…force it on them. Women who start fights should be fought the same intensity as a man. White knights should be beaten down with an absolute hatred and single minded intensity because they are the enemies of all men.

    “…a real man is a dangerous one who possesses the capacity for violence and oppression, but has the strength of will not to use it”

    Any statement that begins with “a real man….’ is just manipulation…social control. However, I will add my thoughts to the mix. A ‘real man’ has a healthy contempt and natural distrust for women. Always..even his own wife. Marriage is not what it was. That is over.

    Women’s envy of men has reached a fever pitch and it is a social fetish now. Men should feel no restraint in indulging women’s equality fantasies curing their illusions. None.

  31. I got into it a little bit with a couple of numbskulls. Was driving downtown and my light was green and these numbskulls started walking across the street against the light. I honked briefly and one of the numbskulls flipped me the bird and I stopped and asked him if he wanted to get into it. He waved his hand “no”. I was in Memphis and these two numbskulls were metrosexuals–one black and one white. Normally in Memphis you have to be careful because the town is trigger-happy. At least in summer. That’s when most of the shootings occur there. But metros downtown are there for a good time and don’t want trouble.

    Guess I forgot my strategy that time, lol.

  32. “Well, I will say this much sjf, every time we comment I learn something ( even if it’s the same things ).”

    Remedial reading…of SJF material.

    With Alzheimer’s you meet new people every day…and learn new lessons every day, too.

    XD

  33. SJF

    I am kind of worried about driving in traffic where my new side job is, though. A lot more variables all of the sudden outside my usual safe zone.

    And if something bad happens to me I might just collapse into a pile of mush.

    Most likely scenario. You will be getting into your car. A guy will break off from the group of two other guys he’s talking with and ask you something or say something.

    “Hey man nice car” or “Hey man you need some help” as he closes space over to you. He’ll then ask you for something as he positions himself with you up against the car. Maybe something Small “get I get a dollar” or ” can I use your phone”.

    He’ll ignore whatever you say and when you fumble around he’ll bitch slap you and demand everything. And you will blubber and go mushy while he goes back to his boys with your stuff and they are all laughing.

    Take heed. You are a mark.

  34. In the original Star Trek in “The Enemy Within.” Kirk was split in two with one “good” and one “evil.” But the “good” Kirk couldn’t make a decision. Couldn’t command. He was scared and timid and mewling. “Evil” Kirk on the other hand was drinking and sexual assaulting and belligerent and ZFG. The duality of man.

    Isn’t one of “the evils” of the Blue Pill that it teaches men not to do “bad” things? It gets you going in a circle of doing what one is taught as “Good” achieving actually bad ends. Where things we are taught to think of as “Bad” achieving good ends. Dread game for example. It is in many circumstances considered “evil” to instill fear in others. But that fear achieves the “good” of keeping your spouse on side. That is a hard part of taking The Red Pill isn’t it? The Red Pill teaches you to let the dark side out.Teaches that you need to tap a bit more into “Evil Kirk.”

    ZFG might be thought of as tapping into the “Evil” of lacking empathy of the need for setting aside the selflessness which is often considered the highest good.

    There is that clip from History of Violence someone shared with the hallway scene. It shows the role in creating restraints that the Alphas play I mentioned earlier. It shows the wheel of fortune that spins around and gets actions labeled as “good” or “evil” on a per case basis.

    On the restraint end we see there are rules for betas. The “beta” overstepped his bounds, stepped outside of the restraints. His actions were frowned upon and labeled “evil” if you will. But he did what was “Good” and stood up to the bullying yet ended up punished.

  35. Rudolph

    Isn’t one of “the evils” of the Blue Pill that it teaches men not to do “bad” things? It gets you going in a circle of doing what one is taught as “Good” achieving actually bad ends.

    Yes… The Golden Rule and related in operations…

    Do into others as you would have them do unto you.

    Turn the other cheek.

    Great is your reward… Later.

    Tune into The Platinum Rule – Do whatever YOU want to do, whenever YOU want to do it.

    See how that aligns with Alpha displays…

  36. “failure to maintain a lane”

    That was what initiated my ticket. You don’t have to be black to get stopped for that. But it’s only enforced occasionally. Unusual punishment. Unconstitutional. Maybe an attorney can file a class action lawsuit against police depts to stop it.

  37. “You don’t have to be black to get stopped for that”

    Cognitive dissonance?

    Happen to read the links I provided, or the few dozen studies?

    Nah, or course not.

    Police don’t have a habit of targeting you asd. The ” I got pulled over too so they do it to everyone ” isn’t a reality based thing.

    When my gf in Arizona was pulled over and (( I )) was the one that had to get out and get patted down, and asked me why that happened ( she wasn’t used to that behavior and didn’t believe it until she was it firsthand ). She says she gets pulled over often because she speeds alot ( which was true. Girl had a lead foot in a Honda s2000 ), and the police were pretty nice.

    I told her 1) it was because she was a hot Asian chick ( given warnings instead of tickets most times ) and 2) she wasn’t part of a targeted group. It’s funny kind of that no matter how mAny times police fuckery is proven, people still can’t really see it.

    I drive 25-30 thousand miles a year. Once I got into my forties, police leave me alone more often, although I was pulled over last year ( most times I hadn’t broken any laws…). When I was younger it was monthly, but I’ve only been ” ticketed ” 3-4 times in 40+ years of driving.

    The link I posted is why it became more tolerable to drive from point a to point b, the feds told the state cops to cut it out,and a lot of municipalities took notice that somebody was paying attention.

    When I started my current job, it got so bad with cops coming on company property to ” check my license, registration and insurance paperwork “, even when my car was parked and stationary, that the CEO called the police chief and told, not asked, for the officers to stop harrasing me.

    But you can believe it happens all the time to everybody equally. That’s why I choose to go directly at the source of the problem….even though I’m not ” young ” anymore, and the frequency has decreased markedly for me.

    You have the right to remain silent tho.😁

  38. The first fight over a woman in recording history is when Dinah’s brothers Shimon and Levi wipe out the male population of a Shechem in response to their prince kidnapping and raping their sister. Genesis 34.

    Dinah herself was not involved in instigating the fight, it seems to me she was wrapped up in Stockholm syndrome then got alpha widowed (see https://redpillrabbi.home.blog/2019/12/12/rape-murder-its-just-a-shot-away-the-abduction-of-dinah/ )

    The interesting thing is Jacob’s response to his sons’ revenge. Jacob is very upset, the famously brothers defend their attack on the city “can we let our sister be treated like a whore?!” (Gen 34:31).

    It appears Jacob was willing to work and possibly intermarry with the Canaanite outsiders, his sons will have none of it, since the prince overstepped civilized boundaries by raping their sister. They used violence to reinforce the boundaries. Sure, Dinah’s honor was at stake, but so was the status of their tribe as a distinct nation. This ties into the role of women as a boundary between groups or nations. If your group allows outside men access to your women, you are effectively uniting with those outsiders.

  39. ” recorded history ” is subjective evidently.

    The bible isn’t a good source of ” recorded history “.

    But it’s a very cool story….bro.😁

  40. This ties into the role of women as a boundary between groups or nations. If your group allows outside men access to your women, you are effectively uniting with those outsiders.*

    Uniting or being taken over by?

  41. Besides fights, I’ve never been in a car accident, ever, either. (in 40+ years of driving…)

    Some guy almost swerved into me last week, though, on a snow day.

    I don’t think he could see from side to side very well with that hoodie he was wearing.

  42. Given, for the sake of argument, that Genesis is a true historical account, it does not record world history, only those aspects of it that seemed important to the tiny little tribe of Israelites (who didn’t yet exist at the time of Dinah’s rape and neither did the book of Genesis, as tradition holds that it was written by Moses several centuries later, so tradition itself contradicts that the account is, strictly speaking, history).

    The surviving, contemporaneously written history of conquering their people and taking their women predates Abraham, never mind Dinah, by something like a thousand years.

    Might have been nice if they had bothered to record instructions on how to build a pyramid as well as a tabernacle, instead of redundant instructions on tabernacle building.

    Even accepting it is history, it is written all stupid, repeating things over and over again while leaving out considerable information of real value that could have occupied the same page space.

  43. “Given, for the sake of argument, that Genesis is a true historical account, it does not record world history, only those aspects of it that seemed important to the tiny little tribe of Israelites (who didn’t yet exist at the time of Dinah’s rape and neither did the book of Genesis, as tradition holds that it was written by Moses several centuries later, so tradition itself contradicts that the account is, strictly speaking, history).

    The surviving, contemporaneously written history of conquering their people and taking their women predates Abraham, never mind Dinah, by something like a thousand years.

    Might have been nice if they had bothered to record instructions on how to build a pyramid as well as a tabernacle, instead of redundant instructions on tabernacle building.

    Even accepting it is history, it is written all stupid, repeating things over and over again while leaving out considerable information of real value that could have occupied the same page space.”

    Amen(Ra).

    Good to hear somebody else gets it.

  44. “Might have been nice if they had bothered to record instructions on how to build a pyramid as well as a tabernacle, instead of redundant instructions on tabernacle building.”

    Lol.

    Herodotus is great reading, crucial in most aspects but even he gets shit wrong sometimes.

    “If Jews were not in Egypt at the time of the pyramids, what about Israelites or Hebrews? Israel itself did not exist until approximately 1100 BCE when various Semitic tribes joined in Canaan to form a single independent kingdom, at least 600 years after the completion of the last of Egypt’s large pyramids. Thus it is not possible for any Israelites to have been in Egypt at the time, either slave or free; as there was not yet any such thing as an Israelite. It was about this same time in history that the earliest evidence of the Hebrew language appeared: The Gezer Calendar, inscribed in limestone, and discovered in 1908. And so the history of Israel is very closely tied to that of Hebrews, and for the past 3,000 years, they’ve been essentially one culture.

    But if neither Jews nor Israelites nor Hebrews were in Egypt until so many centuries after the pyramids were built, how could such a gross historical error become so deeply ingrained in popular knowledge? The story of Jewish slaves building the pyramids originated with Herodotus of Greece in about 450 BCE. He’s often called the “Father of History” as he was among the first historians to take the business seriously and thoroughly document his work. Herodotus reported in his Book II of The Histories that the pyramids were built in 30 years by 100,000 Jewish slaves. Unfortunately, in his time, the line between historical fact and historical fiction was a blurry one. The value of the study of history was not so much to preserve history, as it was to furnish material for great tales; and a result, Herodotus was also called the “Father of Lies” and other Greek historians of the period also grouped under the term “liars”. Many of Herodotus’ writings are considered to be fanciful by modern scholars. Coincidentally, the text of the Book of Exodus was finalized at just about exactly the same time as Herodotus wrote The Histories. Obviously, the same information about what had been going on in Egypt 2,000 years before was available to both authors.”

    Meh, close enough.

    So ” isrealites ” don’t know how pyramids were built either, because they weren’t there.

    My research says the last pyramid was completed 1000-1200 years before ” Hebrews or iraelite ” appeared.

    But it makes for a great movie, masses of ” slaves ” ( pyramids not built by slave labor at all ) toiling under the whip.

  45. This isn’t a fight vid, but I had a lol.

    Background: The DA of LA is a black woman. “Black Lives Matter” doesn’t like her. So they decided to try for a dialog at her house. Before sunrise. At 5:40 AM. Lol, harassment much? The DA’s husband answered the door and pretty much had one thing to say:

    “Get off my porch”.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/los-angeles-district-attorney-s-husband-allegedly-pulled-gun-black-n1146976

    Lol.

    I don’t know what the politics around this DA are and really don’t care. They could be completely legit, there’s some stuff in the LA Times story that looks dubious. Doesn’t matter, the DA has an office, go see her there rather than show up on her front porch in the dark. “Get off my porch!” is a legit answer, because it isn’t Halloween, so no treats need to be handed out.

    Looks like the DA’s husband has an H&K, that would account for him being able to cock the hammer. I wonder if it meets Cali magazine limits?

  46. “for as much as they rail to the contrary, women do have an affinity for violent men”.

    This is why I have been predicting since the 1990s that all prisons will eventually be closed in the name of criminal justice reform. Right now we are letting out the druggies, next will be the rest of the criminals. Women want sexual access to these brutes, not have them locked up behind bars.

  47. @Sentient
    “Uniting or being taken over by?”
    Exactly the argument.
    The Canaanites asserted dominance over the Israelites by raping Jacob’s daughter. When it seemed like Jacob might allow this to stand under the guise of peacefully uniting in marriage, her brothers rejecting this “uniting” because it was really a take over through negotiated terms. The Bible gives the brothers the last word: “can we let our sister be treated like a whore?!”
    They also mean “could we let outsiders take over our tribe by taking our women at will?!”

    @Blaximus
    Pyramids do make for a great movie.
    The Bible never says Jews built pyramids. It says storage cities at Pitom and Rameses, Exodus 1:11. We have ancient oral traditions passed down from the people who were there that give the background and fill in the blanks of the Bible, they also never mention pyramids. That’s a later assumption.

  48. By the way, the LA DA’s husband really didn’t do very well. It’s funny to see, but he screwed up. If the people on his porch really intended physical harm he set himself and his wife up for bad things by opening the front door, talking, and waving his pistol around. A bumrush by just two men would likely take him down, and even if he shot one it wouldn’t make much difference.

    Stepping outside is escalation, and increases risk. Good thing his wife is the county DA so he won’t get busted for something like “menacing” or “assault with a deadly weapon” – pointing guns around like that can be a chargeable offense if an ordinary person does it.

    He should have a little intercom setup so that he can tell people “Get off my porch” via a speaker, while he is safe inside. He also should know better than to wave a pistol around; if he really expected a fight for his life, he shoulda armed himself with something bigger, like a shotgun. “The police have been called. Don’t open my door. Get off my porch. The police have been called. I am armed. Go away, NOW!” via intercom.

    I wonder if they have one of those Amazon Ring doorbells? The vid from that could be interesting. Although maybe not. Some people I know were having trouble with vandalism, maybe homeless guys hanging out, etc. so they put one of those Ring devices on the bulilding. In about a week someone stole it.

  49. Seriously @SJF, how do you manage to go a lifetime without ANY physical altercation?

    I was a computer nerd with the most sheltered UMC upbringing you could imagine and even I had a few scuffles in college.

    Not a criticism just a question. I don’t know how that is possible.

  50. “Seriously @SJF, how do you manage to go a lifetime without ANY physical altercation?

    I was a computer nerd with the most sheltered UMC upbringing you could imagine and even I had a few scuffles in college.”

    I could go on and on and DEER.

    But I’ll state that even though I stated I’ve never an altercation with punches thrown or never was in a car accident: Guess what? It’s totally irrelevant to how I performed as an adult male.

    I was very smart, but not a nerd. We always competed in competitive sports. All the time. I grew up in a neighborhood with lots of families of 6 to 8 to 11 to 14 kids. (Catholic people and Catholic schools.)

    I had three brothers, no sisters and we fought all the time and two of us ganged up on the other two and then we switched and paired up as buddies with the opposite. But we never threw punches. Didn’t need to.

    There was very few instances of animosity among our friends. And we had such a good gang, we didn’t need to fight other gangs. Pick-up basketball, football, baseball.

    In high school we really put a lot of effort into competitive wrestling.

    You know, proxies for fighting.

    At The University of Notre Dame we had the brotherhood of a Dorm System of living instead of Fraternities or Sororities. There was no Greek system. But each dorm was big enough not to have to go fight other dorms. It was a formal tribe. I lived off campus the 4th year, but it’s not like you would get in fights with the South Bend locals.

    And the academics where tough as hell and everyone (the men) were sports toned, in good shape, mostly attractive, and smart as whips. And we drank a lot of alcohol, but simply didn’t need to fight to get things done.

    And furthermore: No diversity, there was proximity with high functioning people who didn’t need animosity. Really.

    Sure is was Shangri-La. In retrospect. But every step from childhood to 35 years old dealt with choices on what to do, where to do it and who to hang out with, including family.

    You want to act like there was something wrong with those choices? So what you are saying is that you want it to be a negative narrative.

    Have you heard of me complain about how things are in my life? When’s the last time I complained about regular sex with my (attractive) wife? About social circle where I live, about my profession or raising late 20 y.o. children?

    Part of my point it that the whole world has not gone to shit. And everyone is entitled to make wise choices for themselves. (And god-forbid even if that means playing not to lose. Or as I did when I was in my 20’s: Don’t Fuck Up!)

  51. I luv you bruh, but you’re delusional in the highest degree. There was something terribly wrong with where and how you grew up. Like Stepford wrong. No hate or envy, just sayin’.

    Commenters PLEASE, I need input to understand what I’m missing here. I could be 100% wrong and SJF could be right. Correct me if needed.

    ” I was very smart, but not a nerd. We always competed in competitive sports. All the time. I grew up in a neighborhood with lots of families of 6 to 8 to 11 to 14 kids. (Catholic people and Catholic schools.)

    Okay, that’s not it. Everywhere I’ve ever lived was practically the same as this. Large families? check. Lots of families? check. Catholic people and catholic schools? ( for the last 20 years ) check.

    I had three brothers, no sisters and we fought all the time and two of us ganged up on the other two and then we switched and paired up as buddies with the opposite. But we never threw punches. Didn’t need to.

    I had 3 sisters and no brothers, so there wasn’t any ” fighting “. But I had a hundred cousins, male, and we’d get into it every now and again. The thing was, we didn’t go all out like a ” real fight, but you might catch a bloody nose. Everyone lived.

    There was very few instances of animosity among our friends. And we had such a good gang, we didn’t need to fight other gangs. Pick-up basketball, football, baseball.

    I don’t get this one at all. Sounds alien. Everybody was exactly the same” Temperament and all?

    In high school we really put a lot of effort into competitive wrestling.

    You know, proxies for fighting.

    I guess….

    At The University of Notre Dame we had the brotherhood of a Dorm System of living instead of Fraternities or Sororities. There was no Greek system. But each dorm was big enough not to have to go fight other dorms. It was a formal tribe. I lived off campus the 4th year, but it’s not like you would get in fights with the South Bend locals.

    I’m lost at what this means.

    And the academics where tough as hell and everyone (the men) were sports toned, in good shape, mostly attractive, and smart as whips. And we drank a lot of alcohol, but simply didn’t need to fight to get things done.

    So a bunch of college men drank lots of alcohol. and not one fight ever broke out? Do you ( or did you ) know what was going on everywhere else? ( no ).

    And furthermore: No diversity, there was proximity with high functioning people who didn’t need animosity. Really.

    Telling as fuck.

    A man cannot hide his true mindset, just like women can’t.

    Okay, there hasn’t been much ” diversity ” where I’ve lived either.

    You’re talking about something else buddy, with that ” animosity “.

    re is was Shangri-La. In retrospect. But every step from childhood to 35 years old dealt with choices on what to do, where to do it and who to hang out with, including family.

    So are you saying that the world never acted on you? Ever? Your entire life has been quietly controlled? Like a science experiment? You didn’t have to grow and learn as a man to exert control? It was just always there from childhood?? Really???

    I don’t get that. Something else is going on here.

    You want to act like there was something wrong with those choices? So what you are saying is that you want it to be a negative narrative.

    Defensive much?

    Have you heard of me complain about how things are in my life? When’s the last time I complained about regular sex with my (attractive) wife? About social circle where I live, about my profession or raising late 20 y.o. children?

    Off topic completely, but you have standardized answers. Like a robot almost.

    Serious question: do you ever learn anything from men that you don’t know, aren’t a part of your ” tribe “, don’t live where you live, and haven’t written shit in a book?

    I’m developing a clearer picture.

  52. Culum(!!!!!!!)

    This is something other than being sheltered. It is impossible for people/men to be born and grow into their 50’s and not face ANY physical threat/harm whatsoever. I know people that were ” sheltered “, and none of them have the same experience SJF is relating at his age.

    Nothing ever happened.

    I think it’s partly a situational awareness issue, and a misreading of things that are happening, along with intentional avoidance. SJF has been misreading me here for years, and I thought I wasn’t making myself clear, but that’s not what it is. He has unshakeable narratives running in his head….

    https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/resize/mwImage/2/1280/720/75/dam/disneyland/3-day-ticket-offer/hero-video/DIQB8032000H-disneyland-resort-scope-campaign-kids-video.jpg

    …and he seems to have one lens, formed early in life, that he sees the world through.

    I don’t mean to badger him, because I like him, but I HATE not being to understand things, and he befuddles the shit outta me.

  53. @Blax

    “He has unshakeable narratives running in his head….”

    Well, at least you got one thing right.

    Telling as fuck.

    A man cannot hide his true mindset, just like women can’t.

    Okay, there hasn’t been much ” diversity ” where I’ve lived either.

    You’re talking about something else buddy, with that ” animosity “.

    And what the fuck does that mean?

    I’m telling you as a fact that my childhood neighborhood, grade school, high school and college was non-diverse. AS IN: 95% White People and 90% Catholic bred and raised.

    You are imputing motive to that Fact. I lived it. And I didn’t become racist at all ever. You are going to have take that on faith. But I know you won’t.

    Quick question: Do you think I’m racist because of anything I’ve ever said? (Except for the fact that you have a trigger finger when I say I grew up in non-diverse communities?)

    That’s not to say if I grew up in diverse color and religion places that I would have turned out so.

    You are attempting to weakly argue a Genetic Fallacy. (…a fallacy of irrelevance that is based solely on someone’s or something’s history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context.)

    Was it because I mentioned Charles Murray? Umm, sorry, for triggering you by mentioning Charles Murray. Because Washington Post used his thoughts on garnering information on Super-Zips. One of which I’ve lived in for 23 years. At the time it was non-diverse, everyone was the same age (around 45) and everyone had 2 to 4 children, and pretty much 90% of husbands and wives stayed married. And raised some good kids. And that I raised my children in. And they are doing quite well. And are a delight to be with. (It’s totally awesome to hang out with my daughter and son-in-law.)

    The Stepford Wives was a satirical robot thriller movie. And about compliant wives end game.

    And I never saw anyone act like a robot in my life. They were self directed and purposeful. With Freewill. Over and Over and Over again.

    And you are angry that most chose well?

    Here’s the problem: I’m unique. So my abilities are not universal. And I’ve used a hell of a lot of lenses in my life. With multiple focal lengths, apertures (fixed and variable), lens sharpness and varying degrees of good quality bokeh. So sue me if my tales don’t have universal application.

    The question is how did I approach life and where did I get to? The only way you can understand what you can’t about what I’ve already said is to ask me.

    And in my opinion, I got where I’m at by being conscious. It’s like Once in a Lifetime by the Talking Heads: “In an interview with NPR, Byrne said: “We’re largely unconscious. You know, we operate half awake or on autopilot and end up, whatever, with a house and family and job and everything else, and we haven’t really stopped to ask ourselves, ‘How did I get here?'” Well I have.

    This song deals with the futility of not being happy with the things you have. Like trying to remove the water at the bottom of the ocean, there’s no way to stop life from moving on. The forces of nature (like the ocean) keep you moving almost without your conscious effort – like a ventriloquist moving a puppet.

    David Byrne: “Maybe I’m fascinated with the middle class because it seems so different from my life, so distant from what I do. I can’t imagine living like that.”

    That shouldn’t piss anyone off. It should make them think, how they got here, where are they going and what are they going to do about it?

    So sue me. I had good parents, good schools, good extended family, chose a good profession, went out of my way to choose a (lol, good..) wife had children and raised them to be good, got into one of the best fields in my profession. Made wise real estate decisions, loved where I lived (by choice). Made some wise social circle decisions. Had some really enjoyable hobbies. Bought a wildlife habitat and hunting farm 13 years ago. And enjoy the hell out of it. Generated great buddies and tribes. (And enjoy having sex with my wife on average about 130 times a year.) I own and run my own practice and there has been great harmony in my workplace–because I’m the boss of nine employees, all women, by the way.

    And so you are saying that you can’t understand me? And you want to hate me. And you want something bad to happen to me in order to demonstrate that I don’t have an indomitable spirit. But can’t figure out ‘how did I get here’.

    Right? Good luck with that.

    And if it doesn’t relate to any one else at all, that’s all shit, right?

    So what are you complaining about?

    On the other hand:

    Blax: “I don’t mean to badger him, because I like him, but I HATE not being able to understand things, and he befuddles the shit outta me.”

    OK. On that count I will take part blame. I used to be more inexact in expressiveness. I was inarticulate in the past and worked to overcome that. And I’ve pissed more that a few people off on other forums by using the moniker InscrutableMastermind. So there is that.

  54. “And you are angry that most chose well?”

    There’s that misreading shit again.

    It never ends.

  55. “So sue me. I had good parents, good schools, good extended family, chose a good profession, went out of my way to choose a (lol, good..) wife had children and raised them to be good, got into one of the best fields in my profession. Made wise real estate decisions, loved where I lived (by choice). Made some wise social circle decisions. Had some really enjoyable hobbies. Bought a wildlife habitat and hunting farm 13 years ago. And enjoy the hell out of it. Generated great buddies and tribes. (And enjoy having sex with my wife on average about 130 times a year.) I own and run my own practice and there has been great harmony in my workplace–because I’m the boss of nine employees, all women, by the way.

    And so you are saying that you can’t understand me? And you want to hate me. And you want something bad to happen to me in order to demonstrate that I don’t have an indomitable spirit. But can’t figure out ‘how did I get here’.

    Right? Good luck with that.”

    See there? What exactly are you trying to say?

    Why do you jump to the conclusion that I want to hate you? Do you ever ask yourself where does that mode of thought even come from? ” question me means you want to hate me..”.

    Did you ever stop to think that people that don’t grow up the same as you can and do have the same experiences, sans the whole carefully avoiding life thing?

    And maybe the reason I question what you say so diligently, is because I’ve spent close to 25 years in Super Zip/ Unicorn land, and I notice that they have alcoholism, suicide, child molesting, a massive drug problem and all manner of discord, but everyone says everything is fine and they work hard to cover it all up. Lol, I’m right next to Trumps golf club/ course – the same one that employed so many
    illegals ” forever. The same guy that complained about the border crossings.

    ” my kid had a little issue ( overdosed on heroin ) but everything’s fine now and he’s doing well “.

    I’m just a curious guy, that’s all, and I have a nasty habit of believing what I see and hear, especially whenever someone intones that they and their family and friends are sooooo very ” different ” ( usually meaning ” better ” ) than everyone else not exactly like them. It’s only true if one is delusional….imo and ime.

    You can only say that you had ” good parents ” and ” friends ” and ” social circle ” and that you made ” good choices “, as if everyone that makes good choices has the same exact outcome – and you don’t even understand how you got where you are.

    And the reason I question you has nothing whatsoever to do with ” racist “. Why do you insist on bringing that up? as some kind of buffer? I ask you a question, or make a comment and you talk about where you went to school, how much land you own, your club, your social circle, and how many times you have sex with your wife.

    But, quoting The Who, ” who the fuck are you?”.

    Is your mental point of origin that thinly spread out over all of that stuff/people? By yourself, without all of the ” magical ” shit that’s happened that you can’t explain, who are YOU all by yourself?

    If you lost everything tomorrow, who would you be? Without stuff and people?

    Without pretense?

    You are an untested entity. Not racist, untested. Your beliefs ( which are just that, beliefs – not facts ) are untested.

    Seriously, you never stopped not even once to ask yourself that?

  56. “…carefully avoiding life thing?”

    What?

    “You are an untested entity.”

    How so?

    “…and you don’t even understand how you got where you are.”

    WTF?

    I actually do.

    I have been alive for 21,467 days and I’ve only spent one week in Disneyland and one and a half weeks in Disney world.

    And last time I checked, every one of those days had a test.

    No one ushers/waltzes anyone through their days.

    Life is difficult. Once you accept that, you can transcend that. Once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.

    Your statement that I haven’t been tested is a Strawman fallacy.

    My thesis: Life is tough. Be mindful, make good decisions, have fortitude. Do your best action. Know what you want. Know how to get where you want to.

  57. “Commenters PLEASE, I need input to understand what I’m missing here. I could be 100% wrong and SJF could be right. Correct me if needed.”

    Hell I was in a fight once a week from ten to 14 yrs,had two older sisters to protect their honor and a younger brother that never fought anyone other than me. Plus I was good looking above average intel and had a knack for pissing people off over girls or just an insolent know it all with no social intelligence. Fuckem if they can’t take it right.

    Now on the other hand had I been slightly below average IQ ,looks and size and knew my place I may never have had to fight at all,I may even rationallize this as good choices who could tell?

    Ya it all looks like a UMC miserable existence to me also whitch is why I opted out of the cookie cutter style long ago and chose a path with more freedom of choice. Not much is different hell I live on my hunting range and fish close by and never count how often the wife and I ‘make bacon’.

    So Ya SJF is right and so are you Blax,every head is a different world and most have a tendency to project and rationalize. We all for the most part are living protected lives far removed from the reality of existence with out the industrial conveniences. Hell indoor pumbing is only 70 years old and some folks still have two seaters in the backyard,just not where SJF grew up.

  58. “Hell indoor pumbing is only 70 years old and some folks still have two seaters in the backyard,just not where SJF grew up.”

    Well, I guess it was a good thing my father took me out hunting rabbits with a .22 in the backyard woods, had us reloading shotshells for high school trap and skeet club, in which we competed with other high schools in the 70’s….

    Oh and then he took us on that 5,000 mile trip out west in 1971, camping each day, but one, for 30 days. With his four boys and wife. Hitting most of the national parks. And only blew out three tires on the road at 70 mph (1967 Chevy Impala) one on the way out, one in Arizona and one on the way back through Chicago…

    Or that time we flew into Canada and camped with our neighbors on a fishing trip. With no plumbing. And being out in the middle of a lake in a small boat with an outboard with my father and brothers at a young age when the perfect storm blew into us….

    And It’s a good thing I didn’t tell my wife I spent $5000K on re-doing the septic tank system at my hunting clubhouse cabin a while ago. Or that I spent 17K on my farm tractor. I told her it was $6,000 (And then she found the receipt one day in my basement gun and reloading room. And when she questioned me? I said: So what? And it never came up again.)

    I’m no stranger to adventure. And did I mention that time I traveled through Europe for a month in 1976 with my high school buddies when I was 16? That was a wake up moment when returning to the U.S. And I decided life is a game. And I was going to play it well, and play it with skill. No matter what adversity might come up.

    Oh, and tell me how no adversity was faced in going to medical school and two residencies and raising two children and having one thirty year marriage? Go on. Mickey Mouse life?

    If I’m rationalizing anything it’s: Live Life Well.

    And Wahoo, spot on, everyone is different and you do you. The red pill can get you trying to live in some-one else’s shoes. And that is a no-no.

    It’s not about having a brag fest Blaximus. Or a swinging dick contest. It is convincing other men to do what is best for a purpose and mission. For them. To do their best. Last time I checked, that is why someone decided to convene on the internet, in manospheres.

    I didn’t have adversity? False Premise. Others have adversity? What are they going to do about it?

    Oh, and the UMC is not Stepford Wives miserable existence. That’s my thesis also. It’s a resource platform. It’s not for nothing. And it’s real and it is spectacular.

    I was driving to and from work recently and ruminating. And not getting in traffic accidents. And a thought came to mind. Those of us that came to Red Pill will still married did some calculations. And the math is not too hard. In these communities, when the divorce rate is really really low, which it is. And the community is really “good” (yeah, pejorative, right, Blax, all Stepford…) And your wife and children are “good”. Why the fuck wouldn’t you run with that, and why would you fuck it up without MRP good game. And then get left with sloppy seconds. The thought was not making virtue out of a necessity. It is about making an ongoing thing good to great.

    The YouTube with Rich Cooper on Entrepreneurs in Cars, Shawn T. Smith and Scott Klajic, yesterday was pretty good. It showcased the problem with military guys and husbands and wives and the “decisions that are made in real time that become a problem”. Check it out: BTT #47 – Military Men & Women Problems

  59. Wahoo

    Got it.

    Btw, I spent summers in rural ( as fuck ) virginia from the time I was born until I was 15, then I moved down there to finish highschool and attend college.

    My grandparents lived their whole lives without indoor plumbing. A lot of my family didn’t actually get it until the mid-late 70’s. When my dad tried to get running water in his parents house, they stopped him. They didn’t see the need to make that change at that late in life.

    So for 2 months I hauled water from the well and used an outhouse, and took baths in a huge metal ” bath tub “, and ate delicious meals and deserts all prepared in a giant 1800’s wood burning stove/oven.

    It was one of the first educations I got in life. It’s not forgotten.

    I think one needs to see life from more than one side or experience, if possible. That’s freedom, the freedom to make an informed choice. Adversity is going to the outhouse to take a shit and seeing a black snake coiled up in the rafters overhead. Lol. Shit before you get bit.

    Only folks that have ” made it ” believe that all you gotta do is follow the rules and make ” good choices “, and everything just turns out beautifully. I had an uncle that became a multi millionaire, but he never could explain how he did it. It was being in the right place, at the right time, under the right circumstances at the end of the day. He wasn’t a ” rule follower ” and he wasn’t known for making ” good choices ” and when young he was always in trouble, never spent 1 day in college ( barely graduated highschool ). Unfortunately he died last year after spending a decade in a nursing home after suffering a massive stroke that paralyzed him almost completely. His kids gave zero fucks.

    So his 3 ex wives split his 3 California mansions, and his estranged kids got 30 million to split.

    So all of the ” goody goody ” isn’t a guarantee of anything in reality. Sure, work hard and smart for what you want, and never just give up, but understand there aren’t ever any real guarantees.

    Or you may profess, but never really understand what ” struggle ” is.

    … and watch out for snakes.

  60. Palma

    … and we grew up in different countries no less.

    “I would be very worried at my age now if I’d never had a fight. I’d never see it coming.

    But that might be it. That might be why the bulk of society doesn’t see what’s coming.”

    +100

    I can’t imagine if somebody punched me in the nose at my age, and I’d never been punched before.

    I might go into cardiac arrest.

  61. “I don’t know where @SJF has spent his whole life where he’s encountered nothing.”

    That’s funny. And a very false premise that Blax is trying to StrawMan. The no adversity Genetic Fallacy.

    And Sentient thinks because of the false fact that I had no adversity that thugs will rough me up, I can’t think on my feet and will crumble in a pile of mush.

    I actually did have Sentient’s scenario happen back in the early 90’s in Detroit. Man the car-jacking’s were a dime a dozen back then. And I was doing a residency in down there.

    One time I ran out of gas in my wife’s car on the Lodge. Near 7 mile. Which is a mile south of 8 mile, actually. And the Lodge is 30 feet lower their than the above streets. I was able to restart the car and limp on to a side street. Maybe it was farther south, IDK. A guy did approach me and I did have the smarts to tell him off from a distance. Body language and verbal language told him I wasn’t a target he could engage with. A police station was just on the other side of the gas station and he got the drift. I got gas. I fueled up and went home.

    Another time, I was driving home and got a call for a consult and stopped on Woodward McDonald’s outside payphone. It could have been 1992 when we didn’t have cellphones. And was dressed in a tie and fancy overcoat and announced in the middle of a huge crowd of millers about: “Hello. This is Dr. SJF, what can I help you with. It was a consult from the emergency room. And I diverted back to the hospital.”

    Yep, one day after another. Always an adversity. Never thrown a punch or never got your nose broken=Never had aversity, right?

    Here’s another point I have to make.

    What I advocate is for in-group altruism. And not mindless out-group malice.

    I wrote this back in 2016, following up on Just Beers Comment. And it has everything to do with the Original Post. And it ties in nicely to that Rich Cooper/Shawn Smith Youtube I mentioned from Monday. Keep in mind that their talk also had to do with how military relationships deal with being away and coming home. And the madness of non-healthy relationships:

    Sebastian Junger wrote a book called:

    Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging

    Great book worth a read. It deals with how tribes unite under adversity. Humans were evolved to deal with in-group altruism. When they are bundled with a large society, they have trouble caring about the group. They become selfish and cheating. With good reason. Humans evolved in smaller tribes than we have socially and their emotions and biology work better that way. Take military operations, the smaller the group the more the more the cohesiveness.

    Regardless of how the U.S conducts distant wars, there is the problem of how military combatants are treated (or treat themselves) when they they return.

    This is not a comment that has anything to do with the worthiness of wars or aggression. At all. Not interested in how wars are decided. Interested in how idiots in-fight.

    It has to do with the worthiness of the populace of the U.S. to be a rational way of being.

    Here is an excerpt indictment of how U.S society conducts themselves civilly in their safe zone as the world continues to be slightly evil.

    Sebastian Junger: “Today’s veterans often come home to find that, although they’re willing to die for their country, they’re not sure how to live for it. It’s hard to know how to live for a country that regularly tears itself apart along every possible ethnic and demographic boundary. The income gap between rich and poor continues to widen, many people live in racially segregated communities, the elderly are mostly sequestered from public life, and rampage shootings happen so regularly that they only remain in the news cycle for a day or two. To make matters worse, politicians occasionally accuse rivals of deliberately trying to harm their own country—a charge so destructive to group unity that most past societies would probably have just punished it as a form of treason. It’s complete madness, and the veterans know this. In combat, soldiers all but ignore differences of race, religion, and politics within their platoon. It’s no wonder many of them get so depressed when they come home.

    I know what coming back to America from a war zone is like because I’ve done it so many times. First there is a kind of shock at the level of comfort and affluence that we enjoy, but that is followed by the dismal realization that we live in a society that is basically at war with itself. People speak with incredible contempt about—depending on their views—the rich, the poor, the educated, the foreign-born, the president, or the entire US government. It’s a level of contempt that is usually reserved for enemies in wartime, except that now it’s applied to our fellow citizens. Unlike criticism, contempt is particularly toxic because it assumes a moral superiority in the speaker. Contempt is often directed at people who have been excluded from a group or declared unworthy of its benefits. Contempt is often used by governments to provide rhetorical cover for torture or abuse. Contempt is one of four behaviors that, statistically, can predict divorce in married couples. People who speak with contempt for one another will probably not remain united for long.

    The most alarming rhetoric comes out of the dispute between liberals and conservatives, and it’s a dangerous waste of time because they’re both right. The perennial conservative concern about high taxes supporting a nonworking “underclass” has entirely legitimate roots in our evolutionary past and shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. Early hominids lived a precarious existence where freeloaders were a direct threat to survival, and so they developed an exceedingly acute sense of whether they were being taken advantage of by members of their own group. But by the same token, one of the hallmarks of early human society was the emergence of a culture of compassion that cared for the ill, the elderly, the wounded, and the unlucky. In today’s terms, that is a common liberal concern that also has to be taken into account. Those two driving forces have coexisted for hundreds of thousands of years in human society and have been duly codified in this country as a two-party political system. The eternal argument over so-called entitlement programs—and, more broadly, over liberal and conservative thought—will never be resolved because each side represents an ancient and absolutely essential component of our evolutionary past.

    So how do you unify a secure, wealthy country that has sunk into a zero-sum political game with itself? How do you make veterans feel that they are returning to a cohesive society that was worth fighting for in the first place? I put that question to Rachel Yehuda of Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Yehuda has seen, up close, the effect of such antisocial divisions on traumatized vets. “If you want to make a society work, then you don’t keep underscoring the places where you’re different—you underscore your shared humanity,” she told me. “I’m appalled by how much people focus on differences. Why are you focusing on how different you are from one another, and not on the things that unite us?”

    The United States is so powerful that the only country capable of destroying her might be the United States herself, which means that the ultimate terrorist strategy would be to just leave the country alone. That way, America’s ugliest partisan tendencies could emerge unimpeded by the unifying effects of war. The ultimate betrayal of tribe isn’t acting competitively—that should be encouraged—but predicating your power on the excommunication of others from the group. That is exactly what politicians of both parties try to do when they spew venomous rhetoric about their rivals. That is exactly what media figures do when they go beyond criticism of their fellow citizens and openly revile them. Reviling people you share a combat outpost with is an incredibly stupid thing to do, and public figures who imagine their nation isn’t, potentially, one huge combat outpost are deluding themselves.”

    Questions:

    Do you want to fight among your own? Do you have a “your own community”. If not, why not.
    Do you fight within your social circle? Why not?

    Do you need to fight others? Who are others to you? And why are they others?

    Why do we actually fight?

    Fortune Favors the Bold?

    Let’s You and Him Fight?

    Intra-sexual Competition?

    JBP/Jung: Dark side treated as facetious.

    My CPL and carrying, but not using it with wise decisions each and every second when Sentient claims I will be turned to mush, Good night moon? I don’t have three firearms in my glove compartment and one on me? (CPL and all…) That I won’t likely need at any one encounter.

    The Whole Point of the JBP/Jung Dark side is that you can throw a punch or justify self defense with your CPL. You can have Ezekiel 25:17 – Pulp Fiction Vengeance. But choose not to via Strength of Freewill Choice. Not be an instinctual evo-psych “muh, instincts made me do it.” and face the downstream effects. Humans have wits for an end goal. It’s why we evolved that way: to make conscious decisions. Both why we fight and why we don’t fight and why we decide to make freewill decisions on inter-sexual relations. To fight and to fuck are decisions. May you all make good ones.

    And now who are you guys to LARP?

    Good night.

    I’m going to work tomorrow and treat my patients with “skin of color”. Yep, they “really, really like me”. Because I’m out for their best interests. You know–altruism. Actually so far they like me a lot. So wish me LARPing success. I hope someone doesn’t accost me and turn me into mush.

    “Goodnight nobody, goodnight mush”
    ― Margaret Wise Brown, Goodnight Moon

  62. “Do you think you might have got lucky here? Just a bit? Convenient Police station?”

    Certainly. Fuck yes. But it doesn’t mean I wasn’t mindful, couldn’t think right or couldn’t make a freewill decision. Or never faced adversity, was weak, and would be for certain a victim. The whole thread is about why we fight.

    The most interesting man in the world–is he better a lover vs. A fighter.

    And now, thanks to Blax we are talking past each other. To the detriment of the peanut gallery.

    Successful guys talking past each other. With a lot of guys searching about how to proceed.

    I’m not the least bit fearful, despite the birdy on my shoulder that tells me to not fuck up.

    Like Cade Langmore in Netflix series Ozark.

  63. 😂

    Oh jesus.

    Carry permit huh?

    Okay, before I turn in, I got a carjacking story ( that I’ve told here before).

    Leaving the strip club an hour before closing time because it was not busy enough and there wasn’t anyone for me to bounce. It might have been 1 a.m..

    I have 500 in cash in my pocket, my work paycheck in the glove box, and an expensive ” boom box ” in the trunk. This too was in the 90’s, and yes, carjacking was a thing for real. I get in my car and start it, andbefore I could lock the door 2 guys grab it and yank it open, demanding I exit. I hesitate, thinking what I should/could do. So the guy pulls a.revolver and sticks it in my face and orders me out. Okay, no fucks given about your ancient.22, so I’m still thinking. So he fired a shot into the dashboard.

    So I exit the car, after turning it off and putting my keys in my pocket. He looked at me in amazement and says ” do you want to get shot? Gimme the keys!! “. I slam the door and reach in my pocket and click the doors locked. So he points the gun at my leg and tells me I have until the count of 3. So after he said ” 1 “, I booted last him down the street. I wanted distance between me and that .22 bullet, and I want to see if he can hit a moving target.

    I get about 50 yards away and no shot or burning sensation in my back. I turn to see them running in the opposite direction. So I Sprint back to my car, get in, turn it around and get on the sidewalk behind them, closing very fast.

    But luckily for them, I ran out of sidewalk when I reached the cross street.

    I always look at shit like that as, the cops are never around when you’re getting robbed, so they won’t be around when I run over you and back up a few times.

    My fucking ears rang for 2 days. Don’t shoot guns in cars.

    For the next few weeks I carried my .380. No permit.

    ” Thugs ” haven’t had success with me since I was 12 years old and a couple of bums hijacked me for the kfc I was bringing home for my dad. He gave me more money and sent me back again, circled the block from the opposite direction, walked up to the bums enjoying thighs and drumsticks, and beat the living shit out of them, leaving one unconscious.

    In those days, dad was 6’4″ about 230. And all I could think was that I couldn’t wait to get enough size on me so that I could do the same to thieving assholes.

    Took another 4 years or so.

    I never tried to talk or fake my way out of a confrontation. I don’t like people that try to physically take advantage of others. The worst thing anyone can do is walk up on me and start ” talking ” that robbery shit. I will not say 1 word. Left, right jab and uppercut you into oblivion😂

    In a perfect world that never existed, violence would be unnecessary. But since it does exist, I’m going to be the last one hitting the ground.

    If you don’t have a fucking birthday ca ke with my name on it, don’t jump out of the dark towards me.

  64. “Oh jesus.

    Carry permit huh?”

    Well, I have to admit, Blax the only reason I mentioned I have a CPL is to trigger you into an emotional story.

    And maybe I should take your vote on which of of my 17 handguns I should scatter around my truck.

    My wife wants me to wash the road salt off it. But I decided against it today because I’m going into the nether regions tomorrow. Don’t need to make it pretty.

    Or carry in my handbag along with my keto lunch. Or in my coat.

    And don’t be silly, I wouldn’t be indiscriminate or quick at the hip. Or all: get off my lawn. Or: Get off my porch. Or, Out of my face.

    Remember. Make wise decisions quick.

    That’s the weird thing these days: All these television series these days teach that.

    “Suits” on Amazon. “Chuck” on Amazon. “Ozark” on Netflix. “Narcos: Mexico” on Netflix. Etc.

    I don’t usually watch TV. But when I do I watch good stuff. And my alter ego is Walter White on Breaking Bad. (Dark side, Carl Jung personified… Half concealing the ability to do bad, never profiting it, except monetarily…) I did watch Sons of Anarchy a while ago, but couldn’t see me resonating with any of the characters. To much acting out the dark side there–and running themselves into the ground.

    Similar to Hunter S. Thomson’s Hell’s Angels saga book.

    Cool, but ultimately about shooting one’s self in the foot. Blame it on Midnight: Shame on the moonlight.

    (The plaintive Bob Seger song reflects on the burdens and compulsions every man carries, which seem to be most acute around midnight (maybe it has something to do with the moon). The only person who can really understand him is the one who lies beside him.)

    Lie and lay well, guys.

  65. SJF

    “Adversity” doesn’t mean that one time you ran out of Rum Raisin…

    Lots to address here. Will have to circle back.

    “I’m going to work tomorrow and treat my patients with “skin of color”. Yep, they “really, really like me”. Because I’m out for their best interests.”

    Lol. I bet they are getting free stuff.

    Looking back over this subthread I can distinguish those who’ve faced some adversity and those who really haven’t by one characteristic – a deep and abiding cynicism among the former.

  66. I don’t have a carry permit. They are hard to come by in Jersey. I tried to get one in my early twenties, as I used to make the bank deposits for my dad’s business, and sometimes it was 10’s of thousands in cash ( in the 80’s that was a lot of money, lol ). You had to apply at your nearest police station at the time, and both times I tried, after the cops stopped laughing, I was declined.

    I have guns for self defense at home. If I had to, I carried sans permit. Fuck that. But I never ( outside of home ) depended on a gun. The majority of the times a gun has been pulled on me, it was by law enforcement. If I am unfortunate enough to come up against an armed robber, he wins. I don’t carry large amounts of cash, don’t wear jewelry or expensive watches, usually have no more than 40-50 dollars in cash, 1 debit card, 1 credit card. That’s it. If I have to carry large amounts of cash, I carry the .45, but still, I have no intention of shooting anyone other than the craziest of crazies. I haven’t met anyone yet that will walk up on a 9mm or .45, but if I do meet that guy, he’s gonna get lead poisoning.

    You enter my home though, you’re dead as fuck..

    Earlier Sentient mentioned ” a mark “. There are some people that just look ” easy “, and crooks concentrate on those folks first. Those people should indeed be extremely careful where they go.

    I grew up before the proliferation of street guns everywhere. Hardly anyone had a gun, and virtually no one brandished a firearm because it was a sign of weakness/cheating. The most successful robers were built like NFL linebackers, because they had to physically remove your valuables. Nobody got seriously injured, you just got bent and folded and relieved of your goods. So practically every boy learned how to fight in some manner. It kept crime down. This wasn’t strange at all. Everyone understood the rules, teachers, cops,grandmothers, strangers – everyone. Without strong men, crooks will overrun. That’s why the whole gun thing fucked it all up, where a 90 pound retarded weakling can rob and wreak havoc.

    But what Palma said is true, eventually you will run across someone that wants to take shit from you. They might try to ” talk ” you out of it, or they may try to assault you, in hopes that you give up quickly ( or that you’ve never been in a fight…). As I said, I work in unicornland, and even here someone was ” mugged ” in the parking lot by a drug addict ( their description ). Cops found the guy ( he lived a few miles away ). Still, the receptionist asks that I escort her to her car when it’s dark because she’s still scared. She can’t believe that would happen there.

    Over my lifetime, I’ve had a couple of dozens real fights. A few times I came up short. But it’s a wonderful feeling to be able to knock an asshole on his back, lol. And as the years went by, the fighting lessened. By 30 I hardly ever raised my fists at anyone. People just don’t fuck with me. Lol, that might change as I age because ” old people ” are seen as targets. I’m okay with that for now.

    It’s just impossible to understand how a man can actually live life without being secluded somehow, and never have some kind of altercation. There are lots of pure dickheads out there, and I don’t see how one can avoid them for a half century. I’ve fought in cities, in the rural country, in the Midwest and southwest, and on the west coast. I didn’t look for any of those fights.

    I even fought in Disney world’s parking lot after a deranged dude pushed my wife, causing her to fall on my baby daughter in her stroller. Both of them on the ground for no good reason. I don’t know what that guy was thinking, or what his problem was, but he went to sleep and security ( better late than never ) called the police and took him away.

    It didn’t ruin our vacation. It didn’t even ruin the day. Fuck him, lol. The most annoying thing was wifey hugging and kissing me on the cheek constantly.

    But I didn’t put her to sleep because tight pussy…..( Joking….kind of )

  67. I’m more like Oliver Wendell Douglas than Thurston Howell III.

    Although my wife only has visited my hunting farm 3 1/2 times in thirteen years.

    And speaking of dealing with folks, Wahoo McDaniels and Blax can speak to dealing with rural folks. And the value of getting into fights with them.

    I’ve had 10+ peripheral neighbors out there. But most of them have faded like the wind.

    And then countless other run ins.

    If you’ve actually watched Netflix Ozarks series, a lot of them were a lot like the Langone family.

    Relatively poor. And looking for a mark.

    You know, the single mom who thinks she rules the neighborhood. Three kids from three different dads each 10 years older than the last, never married. Smokes pot every day. And so did her teenage son. A masculine woman. I befriended her.

    Or the meth cookers.

    Or the angry neighbors that wouldn’t want you to go shooting their deer.

    Or the disgruntled angry liberal retired school teacher that knew it all.

    Or the pot growing, incarcerated in the 90’s with the slut ex-wife and the dogs that roam your property. Nicest guy I ever met. He had his ex back to his house to live in and take care of the 12, and 13 year old daughters, turned them on to burning candles. And his house burned down. So then I let him use my furnished hunting cabin clubhouse until he got back on his feet. And he ditched the ex and lived there with a waif girlfriend for 10 months. And he’s doing great these days, 10 years later. Got re-married to his former buddy at work’s wife and is renting a ten acre property down the road.

    Yeah, the proper way to have a community is not to fight it out. You kind of get a skill at dealing with people on their own level after working in a profession where you care for a hundred thousand patients over 30 years (yeah, no adversity there, move along…). Without antagonism. (And that is not a DisneyLand walled community. It’s engaging in not well people. It at times makes you super sane. Mindful and engaged.)

    I didn’t luck my way through dealing with rural folks. It was skill.

    One of the most boring things someone can imagine is the game of: Tell me something you never did before that everyone else has? Yes I know, it’s DLV. One of my former business partners came up with a line once when talking to a cute drug rep: “you know, I’ve never watched a football game…” And he was in his late fifties. Face-palm for sure.

    But I never also had my hunting clubhouse cabin broken into on corner frontage with a lot of traffic (on a corner), neighbors and rural mindset. And which, I’m rarely there. Because of my networking efforts and efforts to give them what they want. A complementary relationship. No bribes. Just friendly relationships that had merit. And it certainly wasn’t a passive endeavor. It was very action oriented.

    And did I mention that I never had a broken bone? Or that I never really had a pain in my body except for that ankle sprain in wrestling in 1979?

    Life is not a crap shoot, with boogie men around every corner if it doesn’t have to be. But on the other hand, denial, anger, bargaining and depression never really stuck to me. I guess I just forgot about all my adversities.

  68. de·lu·sion·al

    /dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/

    adjective

    adjective: delusional

    characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

    “hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia”

    •based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken.

    “their delusional belief in the project’s merits never wavers”

  69. You are funny Blax. My way of thinking is that men should be competent. And go out there and blaze a trail. By wise choices.

    And have all their roadblocks and hurdles be low ones.

    Even if I was gifted a silver spoon when growing up.

    Tell me how I had all this insulation and teflon on me after the age of 35. Do tell.

    Lost cause?

    Give me feedback. I’m not lost and never was. I’ll grant you the fact that my advice is as lost on most as ASDgamer’s is in gaming women.
    But not in living life. Out there in those goddamn minefields.

    Yeah, everyone out there will always get their ass handed to them. Always. If that is the case, then playing not to lose might be an option, more so than proceeding with trying out mistakes.

    Aware don’t care?

    I already told you I care. About others. And I don’t abuse others.

    Care about others is a field strategy. And you can source that from Sebastian Junger and the deployment in the military.

    The Nudge-Able? I believe any man can be better. They just have to get themselves into an action mode. And you would never deny that. Go forth and prosper.

    Ok. Tell me how wrong I am about being successful. I just sat back and let the prosper flow?

    And mind you, this is in the context of Red Pill. Not God Pill, Not Black Pill, Not MGTOW, Not MRA. Actually going out there with a plan for sexual strategy for your boys.

    I say: have your family do well in relations with family members. Choose a prosperous profession. Choose your strategy to hook up with women. If you want to have children, teach and treat them well. Treat your employees well and have them do your will because they want to. Have a healthy happy relationships with your fuck buddy. Go out and have adventure for the sake of adventure and do well with it. Have success. Have your finances handled. Have your social circle and environment the best it can be. Have your male buddies in a tribe that has trust and will be with you when you are both down and up. If that was my message–you have a problem with that? What? Because it may not be attainable? Well at least some readers can move in that direction before they wake up 20 years later and lament with Bob Seger’s lyrics to Like a Rock.

    <

    blockquote>
    Twenty years now
    Where’d they go?
    Twenty years
    I don’t know
    I sit and I wonder sometimes
    Where they’ve gone

    And sometimes late at night
    When I’m bathed in the firelight
    The moon comes callin’ a ghostly white
    And I recall
    I recall

    You don’t want to wake up to those late at nights. And have to slay the StrawMen. while bathed in the firelight. Down the road.

    YGBSM. What’s your end game? Mock success paths? Nihilism? Not trying because some guy named SJF allegedly waltzed through life with no skills? Sucking on his silver spoon? Which is a false premise. Don’t look at guys that have achieved alleged success and don’t analyze that? (Robert Greene Mastery anyone?…) Because what? Life sucks? Good luck with that. Go ahead and just keep repeating Fight Club nihilism forever…

  70. Back in 77 I lied on my age and landed a job in a modular home factory, Started out sheeting roofs and installing the underlayment. It was near a mennonite town in central Ks. and most folks that worked there were agreeable and the religeous ones were holyer than thou bigtime.
    Those Mennonite men taught me siding, trim, wiring, pipe threading and fitting for gas and I was promoted to appliance installer range hoods,ranges, washer, dryer, fridge and dishwashers.

    Long about this time the old appliance apprentice was given the job of roof sheathing and tarpapering in my stead. We used pneumatic staplers that could be made semiauto weapons by pulling the safety back with your finger. The shingle installer was about 8 years my senior,he pinned me down behind the appliance boxes for at least 15 minutes one afternoon then he got bored and went back to work. I promptly went up the ladder and procede to give him my cease and desist orders to which he answered or what? Then I started his education in hand to hand combat with a tough ass teen on a 3/12 roof 13 ft above the concrete till that man was begging for mercy. That stayed between us.

    Bout a week later the truss guy (big muscle man called cocky Carl) recognized me as a roof sheather (he was a little slow and misinformed) and called me out by the wrong name and when I ignored him he ran me down from behind spun me and planted an open meat beater upside my noggin for shooting staples at his wife. He was of course mistaken and the problem was resolved,oddly enough a manager witnessed the whole interaction.

    Most of the toughs from school started smoking weed and mellowed out. The ones that didn’t have been in and out of prison ever since. From time to time in certain and uncertain company a man has to stand his ground against a taker and more often these days When I am disrespected by the inexperienced (they can’t read and misjudge men)youth I go to teasing them hoping they will take offense and swing but they never do.

  71. When I think about the SHTF scenario in America on civil unrest my conclusion is from time to time people lose faith and dropout their shit has hit the fan. These try to take and get cut short quick. The threat of men gathering into taker tribes seems unlikely besides drug gangs or ex service men that are more into protecting than pillaging. The race wars in this area boil down to Mexican nationals against the whites and the whites don’t see it coming for the most part but it is there a deep seething hatred for the “privileged”. Yes we have guns and can carry open without a permit and concealed with a permit we also have the make my day law to protect our property. The biggest worry is the new red laws that can get your weapons confiscated if your neighbor says your nutty. The Sheriffs Depts of most rural counties have refused to enforce this here.

    Where Palma is looks like a dangerous experiment with way more nonproductives than can be absorbed and carried by the productive proffits, a situ that requires more credit that isn’t there.We have the same thing here and we are closing the door to nonproductivity it may be too late.

  72. Wahoo

    My take on it, knowing personally many of the ” nonproductive”….even with college degrees no less, is that the bulk of any civil unrest will start with the middle class and younger demographic ( 20-30 ) that are being locked out of the opportunities that even you and I enjoyed.

    Depending on where you live, it’s hartd to earn, even if you work 40 hours a week. The middle class has been steadily shrinking, and what do you think happens to the shrunken?

    Looking in the wrong direction. The unrest will be among homegrown, red blooded americans because nobody seems to give one fuck about them as long as they’re alright.

    I’m grateful that I’m not a teenager in these times.

    In brighter news, the stock market is starting to regain a little of the 6 trillion it lost last week.

    I guess that’s something.

    Privilege?

    Ahh, who cares.

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