False Positives

A consistent criticism I’ve received over the years is that the Red Pill is so negative. Why cant the Manosphere just sweeten up? Its truth is definable and self-evident, but why can’t Rollo adjust the ‘tone’? I’ve lived and written through several waves of newcomers to the ‘sphere and in each generation the same want for a ‘kinder, gentler’ Red Pill is always there. The idea is that if you just changed the delivery of the truth it would somehow make it more palatable to a wider audience.

Who’s It For?

I want reiterate here that it’s never been my goal to write for an audience. Whether it’s writing on this blog, my books or when I’m discussing things on various podcasts my only imperative is to convey the information I think is relevant to the topic of intersexual dynamics. My obligation is to picking apart and considering as close as I can get to an objective truth. And I don’t do this by way of some sense of duty to objectivism – it’s just the way that’s always seemed most efficient to me to come to a usable truth. It’s pragmatism on my part, not dedication.

Yes, I know, true objectivism is impossible for human beings. Yes, I also know that even biases we’re unaware of will subconsciously influence our rationality. Spare me the classicist intellectualism, I’ve been at this long enough to have considered all that. But the fact that objectivism is never perfect doesn’t mean we should strive for our best attempt at it – nor replace it with moralism.

I don’t write for an audience. I write about what I see going on around me and I connect dots. Writers today, of all medias, will tell you to “give your readers what they want” if you want to be successful. Writing about uncomfortable truths that rattle people’s cages is counterintuitive to the write-for-success mindset. If you want to sell books, if you want to monetize blogs, if you want to get more channel subscribers you gotta give the folks what they want, right? That’s how most churches work today; cater the message to the congregation if you want the tithe checks to stay consistent.

And always write to appeal to emotions too. People don’t enjoy thinking, but boy do they ever love feeling something – particularly in an age when female emotiveness is the order of the day.

When I began writing regularly it was in a forum environment. We hashed out many ideas and weren’t afraid to get ugly. It was a necessary part of the process. There was no pretense of appealing to an audience for money, traffic or readership. The sole focus was debating the truth about a dynamic. That debate was always a hot kitchen, but the results were something greater than the process.

As a result my essays carried over a lot of the heat from the SoSuave days kitchen. I wasn’t writing to impress readers or increase traffic to the blog it was just to document and codify the objective truths I came to. There is no monetization and the comment threads have never been moderated (besides spam and trolls). Almost 8 years later my charter is still about the same objective debate.

The drawback to this commitment to objective truth is that it rarely appeals to emotionalism. No, it’s not the ‘tone‘ or the feel of the information being related that’s so off-putting – it’s the information itself, and how it makes one feel, that determines whether it’s perceived as positive or negative.

Feels Before Reals

Most people who are still plugged into the proverbial Matrix are living in a world that prioritizes feels before reals. The purpose of consuming really anything is to judge it by how it makes us feel; and especially so in an era defined by the female experience. Emotion always comes before reason in women’s natural, unlearned, interpretive processes. This is also extended to men who’ve been conditioned to prioritize emotions before reason. And this is exacerbated by their need to be better feelers, better emoters, than those other ‘typical’ guys if they want an emotional woman to ever bear their children at some point.

Anything that prioritizes reason before emotion will always run the risk of being perceived as negative. Even if the sum of the information is positive, the fact that you had to come to the truth by way of reason rather than emotion will make it negative.

If you used your head instead of your heart to figure something out, in Girl-World, at best it’s bad form. At worst, you’re a negative pessimists or a cynic.

Usually those designations are reserved for the men who make a habit of using reason to the exception of emotion to relate an objective truth that’s unflattering to the feminine. Again, it’s the information, not the tone, that’s offensive to the emotions-first prioritization. To the Blue Pill mind, any strong idea that conflicts with this prioritization is an affront to the personal investments they’ve made in ideas that it challenges.

So, understand, I’m not a negative person by nature. I’m an artist. Few people know that my 2nd degree is a BFA. I draw, I paint, I play four instruments, I used to do Shakespearean stage acting – I’ve even done children’s theater.

I fully embrace the emotional as a necessary part of the human experience – Hell, half of Red Pill awareness is acknowledging and confronting emotions. I’m certainly not a cynic or a pessimist. Anyone thinking so usually hasn’t read my work. I’m very much an optimist when it comes to creating a New Hope for men in a Red Pill paradigm. I don’t just stop at clinical realism and leave men hanging. I don’t subscribe to the ennui of the “Black Pill” – I’m certainly not absolutist or a determinist.

However, I also have a commitment and an obligation to objective truth in everything I write. Trust me, there are times I wish I could use my wife and my marriage as a ‘proof of concept’ example of how a Red Pill aware guy can make a relationship work today. But the objective truth would make me look like a charlatan if I tried to convince a man that marriage was at all a good idea in its present state.

That’s tough for me. I have had to hold back from posting pictures of my beautiful wife and daughter to prove something to truly negative naysayers. Ladies, you want me to write something positive about women? I love my wife dearly. She’s been a net benefit to my life for all of 23 years now. My daughter is a model. She’s feminine to a fault and she’s smart and ambitious. I would die for her, gladly.

But I never use my personal life as an example in my work for their protection, but also because I don’t want to lead men astray by in anyway implying that what I have is possible for them. And I’ve had men tell me that, “I want what you have.”

But I don’t make value calls. I consider information, I try to interpret it, and I present it in such a way that it’s useful to men where they’re at. I want to give you tools to use to build your own life, not mine.

Truth & Hustle

Admire the Hustle. We read this a lot in the Manosphere among the guys who fancy themselves entrepreneurs. I think one reason critics think the Red Pill is negative is because all they see is the Hustle. The Hustle has a way of becoming the whole point of anything.

I’m an abortion doctor, but I make six figures and I’m the best at what I do. No one will out-work me. Admire the Hustle baby.

When the selling is more important the the product itself, then you have problems. When the truth is less important than the Hustle inevitably our truth becomes the Hustle. There needs to be a balance and that’s getting harder and harder to find now.

We’re at a moment in the Manosphere where the truth is starting to get lost in the Hustle. I’m accused of it, or I’m accused of associating with ‘too much Hustle’. Well-meaning colleagues with too much perception and not enough information are feeling that salesmen care more about the sale than the product.

I hear you.

Let me finish here by reiterating that my obligation to objective truth will always be my motivation for doing anything I put my name on. It always has been. However, I have worked for amazing companies who sold things that people loved and enjoyed only to watch them crumble and die because the sales team assumed control of the ‘product’. The selling became more important than what was being sold.

My books, my blog, my appearances, every aspect of The Rational Male is my art. I craft each essay. It’s what I care about most. I will never allow the truth to be compromised by the Hustle. The Hustle is important, particularly when it’s about disseminating the truth, but it is secondary to the truth – even to the exception of the Hustle. Sometimes the truth doesn’t sell.

This Is Important

We are rapidly entering a time when our ideas will be vilified. Very soon the objective, life-saving, praxeology that is the Red Pill will be used as a label, as a synonym, for negative ideologies that never had anything to do with the Red Pill. And people who are all about the Hustle will gladly abandon the truth they’re selling now if it means the public opinion of it would compromise their Hustle. It’ll be less about what we’re discussing than how influential and how many followers the person we’re discussing it with has.

Others, those who were appropriating the ‘brand’, will throw the Red Pill under the bus to save their own necks. The coming storm is going to test the resolve of people who are all about the Hustle and all about the Red Pill. I know where my obligations lie, they’ve never changed.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

455 comments on “False Positives

  1. @youngmaster

    “right now my main concern is replacing the car and obtaining a job/career that doesn’t pay shit. I have a dual BS in biology and environmental science, but due to various life circumstances my CV isn’t the greatest. Therefore, DHV would be a large hurdle for anything other than outright deception”

    She doesn’t care about your Curriculum Vitae, broski. Or the fact that you have a shit career (you’re tryna be her beta provider lol?). she wants to be emotionally stimulated.

    Emotional stimulation is one of the three keys of Gunwitch’s Seduction MMA:

    “Just describe how you feel when doing whatever it is you like to do… write it down, use a thesaurus to help you with the “right words” and memorize the gambit. Pop it into one of your seductions, deliver it with confidence, and be amazed at the effects.

    Or you can think of some emotionally charged situations you’ve experienced in your life. Maybe you went mountain climbing once, or had some wild drug fueled night at a rave or a club downtown. Maybe you had some memorable sex with a fuckbuddy, just remember the more descriptive you can be, the better. I’d suggest trying to come up with around 3 to 5 of these that you can whip out of your back pocket to emotionally stimulate a girl at any time”.

    You’re 7 years older than me. I’m sure you’ve got a lot more stories than me.

    But, you’ll need to find a way to smoothly segue into telling her your story. Otherwise it could be perceived as bragging (DLV – “ummm why is he telling me this?”)

    One way, is by making her ask for it. How do you do that? By dropping hooks. waiting for her to ask for clarification – THEN you DHV.

    If she’s British

    you: “oh i used to live in London”. [hold back!!!]
    her: “oh why were you there”?

    NOW, you DHV about the reason you were there.

    If she ask for your career

    you: oh I just work with computers (that’s vague…could be anything, so she needs to ask again for clarification)
    her: “oh like what?”

    Now you DHV about what you do OR you can dismiss it with, “lol I don’t want to talk about work related shit while I’m at a bar haha” – now she drops it, and never gets to find out what you do (just tell her later when you guys are lying in bed together). you remain mysterious.

    The other smooth way of segueing into your story, is by knowing key words that will come up in your emotionally stimulating story.

    So for example, one of my sex stories that I like to tell girls, involves: “mezcal”, “airbnb”, “mexico”. So I can talk about any of these for a bit, to establish the context, that will allow me to smoothy segue into my story.


    we talk about what our favorite drink to drink at a bar is -> I mention mezcal. and ask her if she has ever heard about it? I actually first discovered it on this trip I took to Mexico I took last year. What had happened is…..

    We are talking about traveling, then I ask her if she stays in airbnbs, hotels, or hostels when she travels and why. I tease her about her answer. Then she will most likely ask me the question in return (if you haven’t noticed, people tend to do that….so ask girls questions, you want to be asked) I tell her, I stay in airbnbs. I have this one really crazy story from about a year ago about this one stay. do you want to hear it? (girls want their emotions stimulated, so she will most likely say yes…especially if she’s digging your vibe) ok lets go over there (compliance). so what had happened is….

  2. “Yes, and at the very least have avoided the DUI, but the incident is still illustrative.”

    Oh yeah, sure as shit was. I was almost home, FFS….but turned around to look for her!

    Anyhow, avoid it or not it only matters in so far as $8K cash and my life was taking a different course anyways. Can’t live in the past and you’re welcome for the illustration, you ingrates!


  3. J: you misunderstand. It isn’t about what she wants or responds to. I said all that not from a standpoint of “I need all this in order to properly attract a girl,” the point is that these are life issues that are higher priority and need to be dealt with first before I take running game off the back burner. You think I’m going to be running game without a car of my own? Fuck no, I want my freedom and I’m going to get it. You think I want to run game while temporarily stuck in a shitty living situation? Fuck no, I want to sort this out for me, iron out the kinks in my personal armor first, deal with shit that directly applies to and matters to me.

    I have plenty of time to study, comprehend, and learn about running game and techniques while I’m sorting all that out. This isn’t “I can’t run game on a girl unless I can show her that I have these things in order,” this is “I need to iron these out first for my own sake so I can dedicate my time properly to running game without insecurities and imperfections hanging over my head.” Learn to prioritize the right things at the right time. The chicks will still be there, and I will still get them. Abundance mentality and dealing with your problems.

  4. If women are/remain a priority in life, failure is in the future. Important shit will get overlooked.

    Good mindset youngmaster.

  5. “The art of normal conversation has died”

    You think the best seducers out there are going in, not knowing in advance, what topics they want to cover, what frames they want to make sure they set, and how to go about doing so in a smooth efficient manner?

    The trick, really, is to make it look like a normal conversation…..blurring the encounter from meet to sex as one “it just happened” thing with no sudden jarring moments of ‘oh my god he’s trying to fuck me.’

  6. Youngmaster candidly says “You think I want to run game while temporarily stuck in a shitty living situation?”

    j says “Then she will most likely ask me the question in return (if you haven’t noticed, people tend to do that….so ask girls questions, you want to be asked) I tell her, I stay in airbnbs. I have this one really crazy story from about a year ago about this one stay. do you want to hear it? (girls want their emotions stimulated, so she will most likely say yes…especially if she’s digging your vibe) ok lets go over there (compliance). so what had happened is….”

    tl;dr “Yes.”

    Youngmaster, if you’ve not figured it out yet, j is a self-alienating fraud. He isn’t interested in you as a person. I’m not sure how else to say it anymore or need to. j does it for me now.

  7. @Youngmaster

    I concur that you show lots of promise going forward with inter-sexual dynamics and Game. You ask questions and it’s good you reveal your circumstances in order to learn. Keep in mind that my Frame of reference is married red pill game. I don’t do PUA because I don’t need or want to, but could if otherwise. I’m married and have adult children. Five years ago I started learning how to recover from Beta and as such studied Game and Red Pill. I’m having a wonderful Married Red Pill life these days. My wife holds up well, is attractive and a complement to my life, and my children are great. Just so you know where I am coming from.

    I read The Game by Neal Strauss 15 years ago about how a lot of PUA was developed and then morphed into online communities and the manosphere and then further developed over 15 years. There are a lot of universals in all aspects of these concepts.

    “I’m trying to find resources for Game while avoiding outright charlatans. This site speaks more to the concepts behind and framework of Game, not actual techniques or execution. ”
    The concepts behind the framework are very important, so don’t dismiss getting excellent with your understanding of Red Pill Principles.

    You ask for resources. I’ll mention a few. I read at least 25 books a year, all non-fiction. Red Pill and not.

    Disclaimer on one resource: I don’t know what the status of Illimitable Man is in the red pill manosphere, but he put out a lot of good background @Illimitablemen.com. Including the top menu of New to the Red Pill, The Archives (see Fifty Shades of Red in three parts in the Archive), etc.

    More resources below…

    “…my major problem is really communicating value, and also being a lone wolf; I find most people extremely dull, so I don’t develop social circles much..”

    You need to be able to socialize well. You can’t be turned off by people because most people are losers if you are judgmental. You have to either search and comb through a lot of people to find those that resonate with you, or you can convert them to going along with you.

    It is OK to be a sigma lone wolf, but unless you can grace other peoples presence with charisma, what good does sigma lone wolf do you? Intellectualizing and being the smartest guy in the room is fun for your ego. But it is also a liability in socializing. The curse of the intellectual smart guy is that he can rationalize anything, including to his detriment. And argue any point. That’s not necessarily attractive socially.

    “…albeit I do agree that game has evolved since MM’s day (and I’m preferable to Krauser for that, and I also understand MM wasn’t really about game).

    Mystery and Mystery Method certainly was about Game. And Seduction and Attraction. He studied the ancient art of seduction, even relying on the life of Casanova.

    Krauser is an intellectual Myers-Briggs INTJ. You probably also are and probably why he resonates with you. That archetype brings some excellent strengths to the table, but also considerably liabilities, including social skills that are Judgemental, with an inferior function of being able to Go With the Flow in real time with people. This can be overcome by practice and getting out of your head.

    Most of this type are Red Pill by nature. Skeptical. As you say:

    “I knew about PUA and redpill on the sexes ages ago, I simply didn’t care about it because I had the impression of PUA being outright sleazy manipulation to bed girls like some used car salesman rat.”

    Based on your nature and preferences, you would do well to not skimp on the theory while you are looking for the Cheat Codes of PUA.

    You keep getting recommended Mystery Method. It is not outdated. But it is formulaic. Getting down it’s structure won’t hinder you. There is a reason it works.

    Some of that underlying reason is found in a couple other resources (books) that are inexpensive as can be and are extremely well written. They explain the sexual dynamics underlying attraction in Game.

    One is Franco, The Manual of Seduction. It’ll set you back a whole $5.99. The other is Practical Female Psychology by Joseph W. South, David Clare and Franco. That is a whole $9.99.



    In regards to sleazy car salesmen, this is Franco’s characterization of successful seduction:

    “In order to be a successful seducer you must be able to quickly show value to the woman you want to seduce, without being in a subservient state, without qualifying yourself to her too much. You must learn to show your value “as if by chance”, without letting her understand what you are doing to her. If she understands that you are showing value with the purpose of seducing her, you get the opposite result: she will consider you subservient and your value falls. Being a seducer is a bit like displaying a beautiful car in a shop-window and selling it without a “for sale” sign in the window.

    As far as your issue of DHVing and communicating value, and your current life situation, there is no reason you can’t work on red pill and Game and PUA at the same time as you are establishing your work, auto issues and everything else to build value. You can do this with your in between time. No doubt, that other stuff is important and a focus. All of Game and Red Pill can be incorporated into making those things better too.

    For that last paragraph, there is also a just issued book by BlackLabelLogic on Gendernomics: Building Value for males. It’s only $10. It gives a framework on getting through the shit you are getting through now. As opposed to just getting cheat codes.

    On a further note. As far as Showing DHV for you currently, there is a chapter in the Franco book I mentioned above. I’ll cut and paste it in the Field Reports section for you. His whole book is about the proper attitude.

    You will not be able to seduce a woman unless you create attraction in her.

    Attraction is not a rational fact. To create attraction you just have to: 1. Show a higher VALUE than hers.
    2. Have her emotional.

    Because of her strong instinct for selecting the strongest and most gifted men, a woman doesn’t feel real attraction for a man who fails to show a higher value than hers. A woman may naturally choose a man with a lower value than hers for a long-term relationship, but deep down she will never feel true attraction for that man.

  8. @ J

    One of the reasons that I dig you so much ( no homo) is that you can be absolutely 100% clueless some times.

    It’s kinda endearing.

    Seducer, conversationalist, don’t plan what they are going to say/talk about. Pua’s do the planning thing. The concepts are not equal. This goes back to my earlier statement re: student/master.

  9. SJF: I got into ISD redpill material through Rollo. Learning the background, framework and concepts of redpill, how all the puzzle pieces fit together, how everything makes sense, all the interconnections and explanations, those are where I started. I’m not done, not by a long shot, but I just want to assuage your apparent concerns that I’m looking for cheat codes or trying to bypass the foundation of redpill. I’m not. I started in the basement of the tower, I’m simply asking for the directions to get to the top floor, and I plan on walking up the stairs once I’m done cataloguing the lower floors.

    As I said in my last post, I have plenty of time to read and digest material while I’m sorting out my issues, which you suggested after I mentioned it. When something strikes my fancy, I consume vast quantities of information about it in a short amount of time, and this is no exception. Ballparking here, I’d guess I’ve pumped 50 hours minimum into redpill stuff this week alone, and that doesn’t include the hours and hours of listening to things last week while I worked on something else. I’m one to not only pursue the truth of reality and how best to use that knowledge, but to understand the hows and whys. Learning how to read a watch has great applications, but learning how it works gives you mastery and knowledge far beyond telling the time. It is the same with game. I’ll do my due diligence, don’t you worry.

    “Krauser is an intellectual Myers-Briggs INTJ. You probably also are and probably why he resonates with you. That archetype brings some excellent strengths to the table, but also considerably liabilities, including social skills that are Judgemental, with an inferior function of being able to Go With the Flow in real time with people. This can be overcome by practice and getting out of your head.”

    An accurate description of myself. Yes, that’s probably why I like Krauser, and I understand my own shortcomings, I’m quite introspective. Too much, really, as you’ve noted with your last sentence here. That was one major problem I had with the Florida Girl: I would fucking overanalyze and overthink everything, and it just wrecked it all. That was only one small part of the whole picture, but an important one, and I’m conscious of it. My personality also finds the ridiculous demagogue type over-exaggeration in people as total anathema, which is why I hated RSDTyler probably half an hour after finding him. Julien too. The both of them disgust me and they both strike me as flashy circus clowns with little intellect. I do however like Todd V; I can generally tell when someone is genuine, and he and Krauser both are, even though I know Todd is doing his own hustle, he’s still not duplicitous.

    Anyway, yes, I can go with the flow, but the difficulty in doing so isn’t that it’s inherently hard, it’s that I’m an honest person and I don’t like doing that when I think the topic is braindead shit. I can still relate however I can, but being the life of the party when the party conversations are about dull superficialities is harder for me because of that. I have no doubt game will patch this hole in the fabric of my social interaction.

    Aside from that, I appreciate the feedback and source suggestions. Cheers.

  10. “Anyway, yes, I can go with the flow, but the difficulty in doing so isn’t that it’s inherently hard, it’s that I’m an honest person and I don’t like doing that when I think the topic is braindead shit. I can still relate however I can, but being the life of the party when the party conversations are about dull superficialities is harder for me because of that. I have no doubt game will patch this hole in the fabric of my social interaction.”

    Now you are talking. And DEERing. I used to do that shit all the time. (Defend, Explain, Excuse and Rationalize.) Just don’t do that. See the link below.

    Nonetheless. You don’t get extra credit in the lay department for being honest. If you know anything about women and seduction, women are not straightforward honest and will not give you extra credit for that virtue you so like and choose. Penetrating the world has more to it than relying on “honesty”. That’s not how the masculine performance actually rests upon. It’s noble for sure. But it is not a resting point. Read: The 48 Laws of Power summaries. You might not act on them, but they will act on you.

    And no one cares if you don’t like brain-dead superficialities in social life. They are still there and you are confronting realities in front of you. You deal with that. You deal with that…..

    You can’t change realities in front of you. But you can change your reality and play with the reality that is in front of you.

    from Dave Gray Liminal Thinking: Act as-if in the here-and-now. You can test beliefs even if you don’t believe they are true. All you need to do is act as if they were true and see what happens. If you find something that works, do more of it.

    Be un-flinching when facing the reality in front of you…

    But your “braindead” interpretation is just that. An interpretation.

    Braindead Walking Dead persons are a tax on you. Avoid the tax. You have every ability to interpret how you perceive shit. And you have every ability to be able to think differently about the things you have no control about. And you being a smart guy, you can develop a robust, stoic way of positively going about life. Ever hear of Seneca (a Greek guy), Epictetus (a slave), or Marcus Aurelius (a Roman emperor?).

    No social interacting is actually brain dead shit. It is a social dance. Could be a dance with a devil, AMOG male, could be a masculine/feminine complementary dance. A dance with the feminine.

    But it has to do with emotional stuff and social intelligence, not just intellectual intelligence.

    You are a smart guy. And you can dance socially, until you try to game and you have a target girl. And then, what? You try to target her as a Sigma Wolf and then you need a hand rest guide to move toward that? That is what Red Pill awareness and Game Practice gets you. How to proceed. Now. In real time.

    As Dr. Glover says, if you are seeking to be the best version of yourself you can never become a DEER in headlights or you can never Defend, Explain, Excuse and Rationalize your actions.


    In the movie Animal House: “Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life…”

    Goes to:

    “fucking overanalyzing and overthinking everything and being pissed off at dull superficialities is no way to go through life, young man.”

    Lighten up Frances and play with her and play with her.

    The feminine is not the masculine. Don’t harden your heart and discard the feminine. You don’t have to discard your principles to embrace the feminine. You will have to work at that in your current state of mind.

    Embrace the fact that it is inherently hard. And then move on to just do it and not make it hard. That is what you can do. That is what Game is.


  11. You misinterpreted what I meant about honesty, I’m not talking about that in relation to women or getting laid. What I mean is that I’m an honest guy and it can be difficult for me to lie about my emotions or what I’m thinking; it’s very easy for me to lie with some things (fabricating stories) and it’s hard for me to lie about others (what I genuinely think about something). So when I’m standing with six random people at a party and it’s some simplistic subject I don’t care about, it’s difficult for me to be the focus in that instance because it would require changing or blocking my manner of thinking about that subject. That’s what I’m saying, the honesty of my opinions makes it more difficult to go with the flow, not that going with the flow itself is inherently hard. It depends on the topic.

    Hence why I said I believe game will help me patch that hole. It has nothing to do with using honesty as some sort of brownie points for getting laid, and everything to do with shoring up a weak point in my confidence and social skills. If I can use game to make myself the focus of a half dozen people even when the topic is something I could not care less about, then that will have been a huge improvement.

  12. @Youngmaster

    Welcome aboard. Great stuff. You’re on your way.

    SJF wrote: “You don’t get extra credit in the lay department for being honest. ”

    If you’re Tom Brady you can be honest. If not, minimize your weaknesses, accentuate your strengths. We all have both. Sometimes we subconsciously or purposely confuse the two and sabotage our prospects. That, my man, is the definition of denial.

    Cops don’t hand out awards for being obedient and women will not hand out pussy for being a guy. You need to be an authentic”that guy”.

    Which is easy enough if you allow yourself to be. I made the mistake for years…years!…of pretending to be “that guy”, striving, accumulation, socializing, networking…until I had enough. I was a zombie. Alive and barely sentient. It never was about the sex. I always had that. It is about self-respect.

    Self-respect is a state of humility. Humility by definition is not self-deprication. Humility is knowing exactly where you are at…personally, emotionally, spiritually, physically…no more, no less and being ok with it.

    Sex is a downstream effect of upstream coherent masculinity…which has little to do with p in the v. Women do not fuck insecure men. Women fuck confidence. Women want self-respect and are willing to mooch yours and relax by proxy by banging a confident, secure-in-his-skin Youngmaster. No more (overconfident pride), no less (phony false humility).

    You prefer not to be a zombie either, that’s why you’re here. I’m glad you are too.

  13. @Blax

    “The concepts are not equal.”

    Exactly, one works. Guess which one?

    I literally hear that same PUA drivel every week when out. If this guy hears it that means every woman has too, twice.

    There is zero originality within and that dooms these dudes to up the amplitude and frequency of their efforts which comes off more desperate.

  14. Youngmaster

    Sure work on your issues, but do so while also talking up girls…Avoid the tyranny of the Or… do this AND that…

    You only get better talking with girls by doing so. Don’t fall into the Culum Struan trap (what up C!) of being GAME ON/GAME OFF… Girls are everywhere, Game is everywhere… waiting X months until you have that “perfect” window is a waste of X months…

    And hey you may surprise yourself and thereby shatter “limiting beliefs”…


    Emotional stimulation is one of the three keys of Gunwitch’s Seduction MMA

    And Mystery identified this as a core attraction switch long ago…

    Preselection [Often said counts as 80% because others are implied]
    Leader of Men
    Protector of Loved Ones
    Ability to Emote
    Successful Risk Taker

    And DHVs…

    Page 100 – DHV’s

    Examples of DHVs:
    • Preselection from other women
    • Appearing to be a leader of men
    • Being supporter and protector of those you love
    • Being nonneedy
    • Being unaffected
    • Social intelligence
    • Negging her (this IOD is a DHV also)
    • Having a strong frame
    • Having interesting knowledge
    • Emotional stimulation
    • Being socially “in demand”—other people are seeking your attention or validation (alternately they are paying attention to
    what you are saying)
    • Connecting conversationally

    Storytelling – Page 100

    When you tell a story, it doesn’t have to be overtly impressive. In
    fact, it’s better if it’s not some amazing story, because you don’t want
    the target to think you’re trying to impress her. As long as the story is
    fun, interesting, and, most important, captures the attention of her
    group, it will work. These sorts of stories are most congruent if they
    are at least partially true and based on events from your own life.

    The Gandhi Bit
    Did you know Gandhi was a lawyer?
    I did not know this.
    Did you know he lived in England?
    I did not know this.
    Did you know he was hung like a racehorse?
    Mahatma “the Shlong” Gandhi.

    Conveying traits that flip her
    attraction switches without
    making it obvious that you’re
    doing so demonstrates higher
    value and generates attraction.
    For example, in a story it’s possible to flip both the “leader of
    men” and “protector of loved
    ones” attraction switches by
    congruently adding something like “… so I told him I have no
    choice, it’s my little sister. So he jumps in the car, ’cause you know
    my friends are there for me one hundred percent and I’m the same
    way for them; that’s just how we are….” The preselection switch
    and others can be similarly flipped also.

    A helpful hint for telling stories in pickup: The shorter the story, the
    earlier in set you can use it.

    Describe in terms of sensation and emotion. When telling stories,
    men tend to focus on the facts at hand, whereas women look for the
    sensation and emotion caused by the experience. Structure your lan-|
    guage to take this into account.

    Bad: This guy grabbed my ass, can you believe that? I looked like
    an idiot.

    Good: Then I felt a strong hand caress my ass and grip it tightly. I
    turned around, and there was this man with a handlebar mustache
    smiling suggestively at me. All the girls started laughing. I have
    never… felt so surprised… and embarrassed… in my entire life!

    Notice how this story segment conveys the emotions of surprise and
    embarrassment, both of which are useful during a story. Three or four
    story segments like this put together can lead the listener through a
    little emotional journey. With skilled delivery, this is a DHV, even if it
    doesn’t reveal some value-raising factoid about your life.

    Solid Game Page 202 [Good short summary]

    Her emotional circuitry is designed to select for a high-value man
    whom she trusts and with whom she pair-bonds. If your game is tight,
    last-minute resistance will be greatly reduced as an issue. So examine
    your basic game:

    • Are you a healthy, ambitious, socially comfortable person?
    • Do you convey a lack of neediness at all times?
    • Have you otherwise demonstrated value via preselection, the
    leader-of-men switch (social intelligence and social proof),
    emotional stimulation, frame control, and so on?
    • Has she chased and otherwise invested in the interaction?
    • Have you been compliance testing? Do you have kino escalation and compliance?
    • Does she feel that she has earned your interest? (Have you
    demonstrated your “growing pair bond” for her, using qualifiers and other IOIs?)
    • Have you built comfort and trust, and a sense of connection,
    over seven hours and several venue changes? Did you use the
    jealousy plotline so she is sure she wants you?

  15. All the theatrics around The Red Pill is noise, including events and self proclaimed life coaches who can help you get your life in order. To me it is at least. I do think there are people out there who want other men to hold their hand but it is impossible. So you are throwing cash away. All the knowledge is in your books, on The Red Pill reddit, etc.

  16. If you want to learn the art of conversation, you have to practice it–a lot–without worrying about fucking. If you want to add creativity and the ability to segue to your conversational repertoire, spend time doing improv.

    Improv isn’t the same as having a bunch of prepared routines that you segue into. Not like extemporaneous speaking, which is what PUAs do.

    PUAs are junior birdmen compared with people with real social skills.

  17. @eh

    “Exactly, one works. Guess which one?”

    You mean “works” as in gets the desired outcome one is seeking? well….

    “I literally hear that same PUA drivel every week when out. If this guy hears it that means every woman has too, twice”.

    lol I actually believe you. 95% of PUAs are shit tbh.

    As I mentioned 2 days ago, the number #1 PUA forum (sedfast) is closing at the end of the month. The guys on sedfast voted reddit over facebook as their new destination, while the guys in my facebook group (the 5%) are looking to start a forum of their own.

    I asked one of them yesterday, why not invite the guys from sedfast to join our forum? This was the response I got:


    “There is zero originality within and that dooms these dudes to up the amplitude and frequency of their efforts which comes off more desperate”.


  18. Heartiste is down. Possibly permanently.

    heartiste.wordpress.com is no longer available.
    This blog has been archived or suspended in accordance with our Terms of Service.

    The title of yesterday’s article on RooshV losing access to WePay

    Corporate Conspiracy To Silence And Impoverish Political Dissidents

    File backup and alternative hosting have been potentially needed for a while, now itz here.

  19. Sorry AR. You know I’m no fan of Roosh or Heartiste. Fuck ’em both.

    Not a popular opinion here, I know, but to me and plenty of others, they were seen the same way the most hardcore feminist would be seen here.

    You’d feel the same if heartiste blamed white men for all kinds of shit, along with the chorus of commenters over the many years. The ‘ old ‘ roissy went away a long time ago. The bullshit racist heartiste gets no sympathy or fucks from me. I wouldn’t have taken him down, but it’s not a bad thing that hes/they are gone imo, and just my opinion.

    …. Anne it wasn’t the blacks or Hispanics or Jews or mud people ( or any other standard derogatory names used relentlessly at that septic tank of a site ) that ended him, if he’s really gone.

    I always say, time reveals all. Ain’t been wrong so far.

    And, Rollo won’t ban me like they did.

  20. This is bad. This is really bad.

    Rollo —

    Likely he has the whole thing exported after what happened with the “girls” around 10 years or so ago.

    But really, it just underscores the importance of finding blog hosts who are either impervious to SJW influences or offshore in countries where SJWs have no influence to speak of, and certainly not over such things (Hungary, Poland, Russia, etc.). This day was long coming. His site won’t be the last.

  21. WordPress has banned Heartiste. The blog didn’t close. WordPress pulled the plug on him.

  22. ” . . . Rollo won’t ban me like they did.”

    Been there, but it won’t be necessary to ban you if they ban Rollo. See Voltaire.

  23. WordPress has banned Heartiste. The blog didn’t close. WordPress pulled the plug on him.

    Yep, that’s clear enough I think, although it’s good that you’re confirming it.

    He needs to find a new blog host, and you need to have a backup plan, in the very unlikely event you don’t already (I’m fairly sure you do), if you are relying on another third party host that is based in the West.

  24. Anything is possible, but no one can say that Rollo ever wrote anything ever that insulated violence or celebrated violent acts, nor did Rollo ever write anything racially tinged or outright racist. That stuff hardly ever goes on in the comments either.

    Imo, considering the content at heartiste, he had a phenomenal run. He wasn’t smart enough to see the writing on the wall. Maybe trump can bring him back….😂

    Heartiste wasn’t something that red pill advocates should want out there in light of the negativity generated by the press when they see some violent act and find out that the maniac responsible claimed to be a ‘ red pilled guy ‘. Naturally hosting platforms will get itchy trigger fingers.

  25. Blax

    no one can say that Rollo ever wrote anything ever that insulated violence or celebrated violent acts

    Not enough lolz around for this… You should know better…

    Saying “no” to a woman is a violent oppressive act…

  26. I can say I’m not surprised. Over the last few months there has been a material rise in the “infiltrator” shill… always posting a number of key word “solutions”…

    Hey Palma… when you coming to the US?

  27. Rollo: if possible, I’d make sure you can somehow archive your posts from here to somewhere else insulated. They don’t need any excuse, really.

    Blax: you’re stupidly naive if you genuinely have the mindset of “if you don’t give TPTB ammo to use against you, they can’t/won’t touch you.” Just because Rollo hasn’t ever posted anything outright problematic doesn’t mean he won’t be targeted. He will be, inevitably, if he reaches beyond a certain mass. Those who control the finances of the nations, the informations, the channels through which information travels, they don’t give a fuck if they have reasonable cause to take you down. They’ll just do it because they don’t want anyone to read what you say. Believing otherwise is retarded ignorance.

  28. Sentient

    Lol. I know you know what I’m saying.

    Heartiste is finally gone, and I hope he never ever comes back. Farrakhan was deplatformed a while ago because reasons. Freedom of speech, just watch what you say?😂

    Anyway, I know roissy is ‘ respected ‘( because he didn’t attack white males and only attacked the ‘ other ) so I’m in the minority in my ambivalence. It’s cool.

    His ass is still gone though.

  29. Youngmaster

    O.k. I’m not gonna keep opining about heartiste because my view is different and not shared, but I’m neither stupid not naive.

    Sure, anybody can ‘ get it ‘. I have a lifetime of experience with tptb randomly targeting people. It’s just escalating. Welcome to the party, I saved you a seat.

    My best is particularly with heartiste. Full stop. When Roosh goes I will be equally elated. As I said, fuck ‘ em.

    It’s personal I guess.

    Aight, nothing more from me on the subject of motherfuckers I found offensive.

  30. “Hey Palma… when you coming to the US?”

    Sentient X Palma.

    Should be an interesting field report…

  31. Blaximus
    Sorry AR. You know I’m no fan of Roosh or Heartiste. Fuck ’em both.

    Lol! Butthurt much? I never got banned anyplace but have decided “this place isn’t worth my time” more than once.

    Stop staring at those trees labeled “Roosh” and “Heartiste”, widen out your view. There’s a forest of trees, and it’s being cut down. Tree by tree, it’s being cut down.

    Facebook zeroed out Laura Loomer and Louis Farrakhan either this week or last week. I don’t care for either one of them, but I can see a hand writing on the wall.

  32. Novaseeker
    He needs to find a new blog host, and you need to have a backup plan, in the very unlikely event you don’t already (I’m fairly sure you do), if you are relying on another third party host that is based in the West.

    My crystal ball is fuzzy and cloudy. Yet I see a possible future in which various Anglosphere and European bloggers slowly migrate to hosting services in East Asian countries such as Singapore, but more so to Eastern Europe generally, some even to Russia. Because those hosts don’t care about SillyCon Valley Trigglypuff-style SJW fits.

    Then in 2020 the whole “Russian interference in US elections” narrative returns…this time with some basis in fact. Next up – a constrained “internet” that doesn’t allow much connectivity outside of the Zuckerberg Goolag…

    Oops, it went dark. Must be low on batteries.

  33. Blaximus

    You’d feel the same if heartiste blamed white men for all kinds of shit, along with the chorus of commenters over the many years.

    Butthurt much?

  34. Plamasailor
    Which city is best on the Roosh tour?

    Either Seattle or San Francisco. Be sure to watch your step in the latter.

    Although the way things are going, probably the earlier in his tour the better, since it may all fall apart before he gets to the West coast.

  35. It ain’t about ‘ butthurt ‘ else the entire Manosphere is ‘ butthurt ‘ as well.

    And, he’s still gone.

  36. kfg
    Fuck the trade unionists. They were assholes anyway.

    Ditto for those Minshevik bastards.

  37. Blaximus
    It ain’t about ‘ butthurt ‘ else the entire Manosphere is ‘ butthurt ‘ as well.

    Lol! Nah.

    Because the entire Manosphere didn’t get banned by Heartiste or RooshV. Just some men.

    Other men looked at, for example, RoK and said, “That’s a lot of ignorance. Not worth my time”. By the way, I said that about Just4Guys after a few months myself. Too many egos trying to AMOG each other, no learning taking place.

    Lol! Butthurt much?

    And, he’s still gone.

    So’s Farrakhan at least in Facebook terms. See a trend forming?

  38. @Youngmaster – I think @J has given you some stellar advice.

    @J – Great stuff. I’m downloading the Saul book. I’m feeling the stirrings of spring and need to sharpen up my game again. As for MM, I do agree with sexualizing early and often. That’s a change – he wasn’t tying to fuck a generation of girls raised on porn, lol. That’s what I think it is, not “Eat,Pray, Do Anal”. I also think this is the first generation raised as “digital natives”. They’ve come of age with texting and pix and facetime and kik and tinder etc. It speed everything up.

    But the fundamentals of seduction still work on them. And when it works, holy shit. Girls become hooked. I had a scary one I had to back away from very slowly. I usually have good cradar but I overlooked it I guess with her if I’m honest.

    She was submissive and I kept spiking her between sessions and giving her dread and she became emotionally unstable. Took me 3 months to back away very slowly. I never get drama or big fights or cops or orders or protection cuz I always let them think they are dumping me or I just fade. hehe. exiting well is crucial in PUA.

    Re: Heartiste. Like I give a fuck if those racist, real-fascist pieces of shit get to run their site on WordPress or not.

  39. scribblerg
    Re: Heartiste. Like I give a fuck if those racist, real-fascist pieces of shit get to run their site on WordPress or not.

    Paging George Orwell…

    “Real-fascist” – lol.

  40. Yes, damn those big bad racist meanies who say upsetting things that challenge your opinions and go against the grain of accepted socially controlled discourse, that automagically invalidates anything and everything else they have to say. I’m so glad the thought police came along and purged them, so long as the executioners are putting people I don’t like on the chopping block, everything is A-okay!

    Jesus fuck, for real?

  41. Challenge opinion???

    Now that’s willful ignorance. Heartiste didn’t ” challenge opinions “. Buuutttt…. If you don’t know straight up racism when you see it, or purposely choose to be blind or act like it’s something else, that’s your choice.

    If he’d said white men in the northwest are all women raping, sub human criminals – you wouldn’t call that ” challenging opinions “.

    But whatever. Okay dumb if you’d like. No skin off my nose and that motherfucker is still shut the fuck down.😂

    Done. Carry on eulogizing that sewer site. Petition WordPress to bring him back if it really means that much to you.

    But you won’t do that.

  42. Blax

    “It’s personal I guess.”

    Of course, that’s how that whole “Blaximus” monicker got started…

    Luv ya big guy, but you share as much “in group preference” as other in groupies.

  43. Blax

    “But you won’t do that.”

    As AR says, hard times coming for those deemed “dissenters”… They control the meaning of that term. So keep yo haid on a swivel…

    Protest? Sure… Log those IPs, let the doxing begin… You know what follows that…?

  44. Update everyone…Heartiste has been deplatformed. The website is down due to violation of terms and services blah blah blah you know the drill…

  45. *Buuutttt…. If you don’t know straight up racism when you see it”

    That’s the point. Straight up racism is irrelevant to whether he’s correct about or very good at something entirely separate. I can divorce the two. You cannot. That’s the point, you’re an emotional defensive person who can’t assess an independent thought from someone who has an opinion that triggers you.

    If he’d said white men in the northwest are all women raping, sub human criminals – you wouldn’t call that ” challenging opinions “.

    If some calculus professor said that, I’d take issue with his arrival at such a conclusion and disagree with it. That doesn’t mean I get to dismiss all his solutions for various calculus problems, especially not if the man is well known in his field. But no, you go ahead and be an emotional woman with the inability to mentally separate abstract thoughts. Face it, you’re stunted in this, and it shows a level of immaturity on par with the social justice progressives themselves screaming that someone lose their job for a wrongthink joke. You don’t get to qualify whether someone deserved a deplatforming just because your fragile feelings got hurt, little man.

  46. Call it what you will. Defend it however you like. CAll me emotional …I guess to shut me up. Equivocate until the cows come home.

    Heartiste is still done. Your point is made of helium. His vanishing is about 5 years too late, but POOF!!! He’s all gone now.

    I’m good with that. No further explanation necessary.😃😂 feel free to start up your own cesspool, with brilliant insights.

    Trains ran on time and all that.

  47. I shouldn’t be surprised at all the racist defending, but I am just a little.

    Just remember as you complain about women, the laws and society treating you ‘ unfairly ‘ some how that all of that shit began with ” talk “. You have no idea how it can get, and you’ll excuse bullshit as long as it ain’t happening to you directly.

    But this is old hat. Just remember this the next time you link to a video or articles” expressing opinions ” that degrade you as a man in some fashion. Fearing the words turning into actions.

    But you will not. Not capable.

    Good night.

  48. I completely agree with this, among all other, post. I recently started a weight loss and fitness program ( lost 70 lbs so far ) and if I had read and followed popular advice I would have not lost anything; or lost and gained back. The TRUTH is that becoming fit is difficult and should be. Often a complete change in lifestyle is needed ( I quit alcohol, changed diet and re-prioritized what was important to me ). However, the most popular writing on this venture makes it seem easy. Stating this truth would be a terribly unpopular notion and, as pointed out in this post, would definitely not sell. Keep telling the truth. Men who want to change might balk at first, but the truth is difficult to hide from.

  49. @Blaximus: You have no idea how it can get, and you’ll excuse bullshit as long as it ain’t happening to you directly.

    Hahaha, do you have no self awareness? You don’t see how saying this made you an outright hypocrite in the span of two posts? Someone you don’t like got deplatformed and you’re fine with it because you think they’re racist, which is exactly you excusing bullshit because it isn’t happening to you directly and it’s against someone you despise. Amazing that I call you out for this yet you have the idiocy to make the above quote. Incredible. Yes, make no mistake, you absolutely have a solid leg to stand on here, extremely convincing and couched in solid rationale here on the Rational Male.

  50. @Blax: it makes me sad that you are pretty much celebrating this kind of censorship. Reminds me of when you “threatened” to doxx YaReally.

    Rollo’s stance of letting people comment without censorship is the best approach.

  51. @Palma, Sentient: I hate long flights, but I’d very seriously consider visiting the U.S. to meet up with some of the commenters here. Likewise if any of you are coming to Europe at some stage (21 Con in Poland or otherwise) I’d like to try to set something up. Several of you have contributed greatly to my growth as a man.

  52. “This is bad. This is really bad.

    Yup, I’m not surprised though. This was the danger of conflating and interjecting “Red Pill” with alt-right politics, WN, and other racial politics instead of keeping the focus 100% on intersexual dynamics. And also what happens when the commentariat becomes overrun with lunatics and extremists

  53. By the way, Amazon can do a system software update on any Kindle that is connected to the internet. Ten years ago in response to a copyright complaint, Amazon deleted illegal copies of a book from Kindles worldwide.


    It was George Orwell’s 1984, ironically.

    I’m not going down the rabbit trail from back then, I’m just pointing out that any Kindle connected to the internet, either via 802.11 WiFi or 3G cellullar link – if it’s on Whispernet, then Amazon can look inside.

    Kindles mount just like any other device, and the contents can be backed up onto any mass storage device (big USB, disk drive, ancient tape drive, probably not 5.25″ floppies but maybe kfg knows about that…) and it would be prudent to do that for reasons. Including the innocent use of Calibre or some other e-book conversion tool to move from format to format, who knows what hissy fit Amazon may have at some future date?

    It’s also handy if a Kindle gets broken. Because not everything one reads may be located on the Amazon store, so backups matter.

  54. @Blax all well and good except…if suddenly YOU found yourself deplatformed or banned without reason.

    Regardless of your politics there’s still be guys here who would defend your right to say you thing…whatever that thing is.

  55. If I don’t like a site, I don’t read it.
    I’m kind of wondering….why now?
    Heartiste has been Heartiste for many years (a forum I don’t read, and don’t value at all).
    Think the last post was about “twatter”.
    Most of the older topics can be found in the cache, but not that one.

    1. I’m kind of wondering….why now?

      Well…I think it is pretty much impossible to establish an exact reason down to the exact day, but the momentum for stuff like this has been building for awhile, and it takes just a single incident like this (which just recently occurred) to get on the radar screen of a decision maker who can make it happen:


      “It’s no coincidence the synagogue shooter posted about the ‘red pill movement’
      John Earnest spent time on 8chan and mentioned the ‘red pill movement.’

      Misogynist and racist communities are often deeply connected. According to a 2017 Data and Society report on what is referred to as “the alt-right,” even though men’s rights activists, white nationalists, and other far-right groups may disagree with each other on some beliefs, their online tactics are similar and they “converge on common issues.”

      Chateau Heartiste actively embraced the “racist” white nationalist agenda and made itself a very easy target. I think his hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetoric also played a part.

      I may be naive, but I think because this site WISELY focuses ONLY on Intersexual Dynamics and NEVER got caught up in the crap that Roosh and Heartiste got caught up in (credit to Rollo), and because the tone of the posts are analytical and academic and NOT inflammatory I think the site is safe from disappearing from “violations” but definitely having a backup plan is wise

  56. ” . . . probably not 5.25″ floppies but maybe kfg knows about that…”

    Some larger books won’t fit on single sided.

    The applianceification of computer devices can hide what they really are. I have a light bulb that has the computing power of a PII. The Kindle is the functional equivalent of a top tier, end of development PIII. It runs Linux. Amazon is root and you ain’t. The publishers own the books and you don’t. All you have is the limited right to make a copy. You own the media the copy resides on.

    I keep my Kindle offline as much as is reasonably possible. I don’t buy books on it. I buy books from a desktop and download them to disk. From there they are copied to a number of other devices on various media. Two of those devices are desktops that regularly have their drives cloned. Two copies. One stays with me, another goes to a friends house (and his clones come to mine). Every now and then I archive important data to optical. Again, two copies at minimum, only one of which is stored locally. I have a collection of optical drives and an external, powered case to put them in.

    My latest fetish item is a little plastic case a bit smaller than an Amazon Basics 2.5″ drive enclosure. It holds eight m.2 drives. When I finish migration to that format I’ll be able to walk around with the world backed up in my shirt pocket.

    I archive, but I do not believe in archiving. Media formats and the devices to read them change. Even if your archives last forever, the devices to access them won’t. Mechanical drives have moving parts. Moving parts require lubrication. Lubrication has a shelf life. In theory HDDs hold their data for longer than SSDs, but the actual failure rate of HDDs just sitting on the shelf is about the same as for contemporary SSDs. Optical drives are easier to disassemble and restore to working order than HDDs.

    I have executable code, in multiple languages, that I first wrote in APL and stored to the tape drive of an IBM 360 mainframe. Because I copy. All the time. And make sure my copies work on current devices.

    Take care of yourselves out there.

  57. Wala

    I’m all for free speech and all that.

    I was.banned from both heartiste and roosh. You wanna know what I did to get banned! I didn’t spam or rant and rave. I simply responded to inaccurate racist stuff posted in op’s. That’s it. I didn’t curse of type in all caps.

    It was a long time ago, but I think when heartiste banged me, I responded to his assertion that blacks destroy every single place where they live or something. I responded with the names of about 20 cities or so, that don’t get ” press ” that are as nice as anywhere else, and a reminder that there’s no black monolith. I was rebuked and banned. There’s a reason that heartiste comment section is the way that it is – dissent isn’t allowed, nor are idea s. Zero debate.

    But the comments that echo racist shit are left alone. Over years I’d bet I showed heartiste to a few dozen people I know, and every one of them said they weren’t allowed to comment on the stuff posted there.

    So excuse me if I don’t buy that freedom of speech thing.

    My banning at Roosh came with personal excoriation from Roosh himself. Roosh made a comment that nobody finds black men attractive except big fat black women. Asian girls were repulsed by black men. I commented that what he stated was demonstrably false and linked to a site where Asian women were seeking black men. I wrote that I’d dated at least a dozen Asian women, foreign and domestic, and that at least 5 family members were married to some stunning Asian women.

    That’s all I said.

    Roosh replied along the lines of ” don’t come here with that nonsensical argument in order to make yourself feel better. I’m talking about facts…. “. I don’t recall the rest of what he said, but it was all derogatory. Hours later when I tried to respond I found I’d been banned.

    Freedom of speech?

    Other comments that agreed with the stances were left intact. Zero dissent allowed.

    Look, the bottom line is that I defend the rights of any man to believe and think whatever he wants to, whether I like it or not. But when you come into the public domain of any kind, to speak ” opinions ” and have ” discussion ” in comment sections, and you systematically ban any opposing opinions, it becomes an echo chamber. Better to go private imo.

    Rollo doesn’t moderate, and anyone that isn’t a bot or.spamm is allowed to agree or disagree and make their point and engage in debate. As I said to Rollo in an earlier comment, it’s the Assholes that will get everyone deplatformed. They aren’t innocent and blameless. Shutting out ” the pubic” targeted parts of the public, isn’t about freedom of speech.

    If nothing I’ve stated makes sense, it is willful on your part.

    So yes, I would have never done anything to make heartiste go away. I just stopped reading. I’m sure that whoever was writing there is not the original roissy anyway. Same with Roosh, I just stopped reading.

    The red pill is being more and more conflated with alt right/politics. That will usher in the death of it in the public scale because of the violence and murder. Grand opening, grand closing as I said earlier. A bunch of Assholes ruining the party for everyone ( lol I know about that shit ) because of an inability to self police and use common sense.

    And heartiste is still gone.
    Here’s to Roosh being next. Why should the banners avoid being banned? It’s only ” fair “

  58. A one line quip got me banned there.
    His site, it’s like going to someone’s house.
    No free speech in the house, you can get thrown out.
    When that happens…go to a different (better) place.
    I raise an eyebrow though, when the neighborhood watchmen start shutting down homes.

    A blogger once posted my e mail address publicly (in response to some Christmas card rant about Trump….I just posted cards from presidents of Christmases past to show “Merry Christmas” was a thing in the Whitehouse long, long before Trump). I had to send WordPress about 15 e mails a day for almost a week before they made her edit that out. She still kept most of it up, the edit wasn’t really an edit.
    Anyway…when policing seems arbitrary, that worries me.

  59. “Rollo doesn’t moderate, and anyone that isn’t a bot or.spamm is allowed to agree or disagree and make their point and engage in debate.”

    It might be worth defending him.

  60. First, thank you Rollo for creating this content and for explaining the ugly truths. I discovered the Red Pill after being torn down by the actions of women. Roll explained everything I was experiencing, the good and the bad. It may seem negative because we followed the playbook we were sold by society and the reality was far different. It’s interesting to see the Matrix in real-time now and seeing women behave from their own imperatives and firmware. I cycle back to the “anger” phase when I observe female actions that Rollo has explained. Is he negative? No, just explaining the bitter truth. At least now I know other men have experienced the same situations and how to approach them from an informed place. Women are not unicorns or special, they have their own firmware which is different from ours. Much of what I’ve seen is solipsistic in nature, which I believe is their survival instinct. This content is a blessing and needs to be shared. Thank you Rollo and to the other men that share their experiences on this blog.

  61. @Blaximus[……..It was a long time ago, but I think when heartiste banged me, I responded….]

    Oh Blax I’m left speechless….;-)

  62. Can’t speak about RooshV forum but CH banning someone was very very rare in my experience. I can only think of one – Thwack. More likely it was moderation issues having nothing to do with content per we. Disagreement to the OP was red meat there.

    The moderation got progressively worse over the last three years and NO ONE had any idea if and when a comment would pop out. Moderation is what drove guys here to post FRs. You wouldn’t kbow if the post would get through or when and same for responses.

    I’m sure the site was under constant heavy attack.

    In the meantime Rollo should post up the 16 Commandments here. World class resource on one page.

  63. The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon
    I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
    II. Make her jealous
    III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
    IV. Don’t play by her rules
    V. Adhere to the golden ratio
    VI. Keep her guessing
    VII. Always keep two in the kitty
    VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
    IX. Connect with her emotions
    X. Ignore her beauty
    XI.  Be irrationally self-confident
    XII.  Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
    XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
    XIV. Fuck her good
    XV. Maintain your state control
    XVI.  Never be afraid to lose her

  64. Can’t speak about RooshV forum but CH banning someone was very very rare in my experience.

    How would you know it was rare?
    CH wasn’t obligated to announce every time he banned someone.
    Happened to me (years back) and I barely posted there at all.

  65. On both sites, Roosh and heartiste, I got a message stating something like ” you are banned ” from commenting.

    No one I’d sent there ( ch ) was allowed to comment, I assume through moderation. I could see comments getting lost here and there, but not dozens of them .

    A couple of years ago, I spoke to a sizeable audience and encouraged them to go to these alt rightish sites to read what’s being said regularly and not to be ignorant of such things. Heartiste was in the list. None of the people that tried to comment there were allowed to.

    Guys can try to sugar coat this stuff, but deep down they gotta know what’s going on. That will become part of the undoing, the silence and acceptance of more radical ideologies, even if one disagrees.

    Speaking up in defense of that shit once it’s been stomped out strikes me as strange. But whatever.


    Are you ‘ sad ‘ about the stuff posted on ch? Or just that I celebrate it’s demise? If a radical ” odd wing ” hardcore feminist site was shut down, would that too make you sad?

    I get that ch never said awful, incorrect, hateful stuff about you Or anyone like you for years and years, so you see this situation differently, as a freedom of speech thing. Try going out in public and making terroristic threats and see how it works out. Nobody complains about that though.

    The guy that posted the 16 commandments of poon wasn’t the same guy running the site for the past few years. You’re lamenting a dude that’s been gone a long time.

  66. @Morpheus

    Chateau Heartiste actively embraced the “racist” white nationalist agenda and made itself a very easy target. I think his hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetoric also played a part.

    Probably, but that isn’t new. His rhetoric has always been inflammatory and hyperbolic — I mean since 2007. And it was never just about sexual dynamics. Back in the day when it was “roissyindc”, it was always a mix of PUA and other stuff … wider social commentary. That was his specific genius, together with his acerbic wit and rhetorical style. Slumlord called him “the Devil’s virtuoso” for a reason. Some of those posts from the late noughts were … some of finest polemic I’ve ever read to be honest, and certainly the finest I’ve ever read on a blog.

    In recent years the site became more associated with the alt-right, and that is likely what caused the problem here, although it is hard to tell. There is a crackdown going on, as we saw from last week’s FB bannings. The timing is still odd, though, because basically roissy has been the same hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetorician for over a decade.

    I may be naive, but I think because this site WISELY focuses ONLY on Intersexual Dynamics and NEVER got caught up in the crap that Roosh and Heartiste got caught up in (credit to Rollo), and because the tone of the posts are analytical and academic and NOT inflammatory I think the site is safe from disappearing from “violations” but definitely having a backup plan is wise

    I wouldn’t say naive, but I would say unlikely. Misogyny isn’t really viewed much differently from racism, and while you and I wouldn’t find what Rollo writes to be misogynist, 100% of progressives would certainly find it so. They are looking to get rid of the off-mainstream sites on the right before the 2020 run, given what happened in 16, and even though Rollo’s site is not politically partisan, it’s impossible to see it as anything at all associated with, or sympathetic to, anything on the current retail political left. Hence there is a massive risk, I think, and I am sure Rollo is taking it seriously. If you aren’t, R, you should be.

  67. Nova

    Yup the Three Rs of the Manosphere have something in common…

    Let’s hope it’s not being turned off…

  68. I respect the way you convey your message. I never had mentors in my life that were brutally honest with me. I wouldn’t want it any other way now. Thanks Rollo.

  69. Blaximus on CH
    If he’d said white men in the northwest are all women raping, sub human criminals – you wouldn’t call that ” challenging opinions “.

    Well, I’d call that “plagerizing from the NY Times, Atlantic and other mainstream media”, frankly.

    I shouldn’t be surprised at all the racist defending, but I am just a little.

    I should’t be surprised at the defense of suppressing dissent, but I am just a little.

    Just remember as you complain about women, the laws and society treating you ‘ unfairly ‘ some how that all of that shit began with ” talk “.

    Yeah, talk is a two edged sword. That’s not a secret.

    What was it Frederick Douglass did? Oh, yeah, he talked in public, and wrote as well. George Washington Carver? “Talk” among many other things. W.E.B. DuBois? “Talk” and wrote.

    There were people in the 19th and 20th century who didn’t like what Douglas and Carver and DuBois were saying and writing, so the wanted those men shut up. You agreeing with the shutter-uppers for real? Or is it somehow different, depending on … things.

    Y’know, Malcom X did some talk. Some of it might have cost him his life. His murderers, did they do the right thing?

    Louis Farrakhan has said some things that are harsh, things that are inflammatory and some things that are flat out loony. I might not want to spend a lot of time with him over tea and cakes. But for sure I don’t like seeing him removed from Facebook nor would I want his speeches taken down from Youtube.

    Suppressing Farrakhan likely will lead to suppressing other more reasonable people. At least, that’s been the pattern in some nations over the last 500 to 1,000 years, so it might work that way this time also.

    “You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.” – Some White Guy
    Just saying.

    You have no idea how it can get, and you’ll excuse bullshit as long as it ain’t happening to you directly.

    That’s pretty ironic, in a way. Do you see why that is so?
    Paging Pastor Martin Neimoller…

  70. @Blax:

    As you may recall I’m in Europe and whether due to culture or whatever, I might even me more “left-leaning” than you are (and I’d say you are considered fairly left-leaning among the community here).

    I am aware that Roissy wasn’t writing at Heartiste for a while.
    I’m not sad about Heartiste per se, I didn’t usually read it, don’t even remember last time I did. Disclaimer: I found it hilarious several times (and that was already after the original Roissy left). But it was very abrasive and I disagreed with too much there particularly in more recent times when it became more political.

    But it getting de-platformed is quite a bad precedent.

    What bothers me about your stance is a bit hypocritical. Granted they might have been hypocrites themselves in banning you, but if you cheer when they are de-platformed how are you being any better?

    I don’t like it when people get de-platformed, even if they are assholes and even if I disagree with them. With the majority being ok with de-platforming “assholes”, it is very easy for someone that wants to get rid of you to get you lumped as an “asshole” (incorrectly though it may be) and soon enough Rollo is an “asshole” and TRM is de-platformed as well.

    It is this “Punch all nazis!” SJW / Antifa idiot mentality… Do you think they wouldn’t call Rollo or you a Nazi? If it suits them they would, to justify punching you (or trying), or to get you fired, or whatever.

    I don’t agree with that stance that goes “Tolerance doesn’t mean we need to tolerate intolerance”. Let the intolerant people be intolerant without censorship, you will know who they are.


    First they came for the assholes, and Blax cheered… I don’t like where it can go from there.

  71. Novaseeker
    The timing is still odd, though, because basically roissy has been the same hyperbolic, inflammatory rhetorician for over a decade.

    Comments have decayed, though. Last year I went digging back in time via the WordPress search tool, looking for that great, long comment by Keoni Galt. The one where he basically laid out the story of how he recovered from utter Betaization and saved his marriage.

    I wound up looking at comments from 5, 7 years ago. There’s no comparison to the last few years. Yeah, men got into arguments, a lot of stuff was said, but there was at least some actionable information being handed out. Sort of like the Field Reports here. Politics showed up but not in a grossly retarded form. There were intelligent men commenting in those days.

    Now…for a couple, maybe a few, years comments at CH have been dominated by a clique of 5 to 10 morons. Morons who repeat the same crap over and over again, post the same memes, rage about the same stuff. Maybe they were all ‘bots. Whoever / whatever, they made comments into a giant bucket of ancient crabs, always pulling down anyone who might want to get something done, at the same time hissing and scratching and fussing at each other like bitchy mid-high girls. Almost entirely clogging up threads with their brain dead crap. Maybe some of them were borderline autistic? That would explain the nearly zero ability to calibrate words to audience.

    Frankly, CH lost control of the comments. A lot of stupid crap got put up, and normal men began fading out. Yet from time to time there would be a real essay with real info and real links. Maybe “Heartiste” became a committee of 2 or more people a few years back, after that…trouble…and now we see the results?

    I’m still opposed to WordPress zeroing the blog. If there’s fine print on the TOS then it should be used to cost WordPress some money – they’ll be less likely to zero the next blog.

    But CH comments became 99% trash. At the local sewage treatment plant the filters once in a while catch something of value, maybe a gold wedding ring. A whole lotta sewage has to flow through for that one find. CH comments became like a sewage treatment plant some time back. The ratio of crap to gold became way too high for me, and other men as well.

  72. Roissy was a mixed bag for me. Before I started TRM I got into the commentariat at Roissy In DC and I kind of balked at the racial and political stuff and this was 2007, before Obama. I thought he was the closest in ideas to my own at SoSuave at that time so I kind of sucked it up and waited for the Game posts to comment on. It was around 2011 that I was motivated to get out of the forums and comment threads to start TRM by wanting to have a blog dedicated to the ‘good stuff’ without the ‘globohomowhatever’ crap.

    When Roissy got doxxed and the blog got not so secretly sold that’s when the ‘bad stuff’ became the charter for the blog and Game was just a vestige of the old blog. I was glad to have called Roissy (the real Roissy) a friend at the time, but the blog fundamentally shifted narrative and I haven’t really read it since around 2014.

    I wont argue as to whether the blog was divisive if not outright racist. I never agreed with the stance on multiculturalism. I even said as much in the State of the Manosphere address in 2018. What scares me is that this is the first time we’ve seen WordPress deplatform a blog on ideological grounds. Clearly there’s an agenda here and no one in the ‘sphere is safe. Dalrock’s is a free WordPress blog.

    I’ve taken precautions and backed up my data of course. I’ve been doing so every 6 months anyway, but I’m presently looking at independent hosting for TRM as a result of all this. But where does it end? If CH had been on an independent ISP what’s to say the ISP wouldn’t just dump him?

    Also: I’ve got the 16 Commandments of Poon archived. Would it be bad form to post it on a page here? I’m kind of scared to draw attention to myself by doing so.

  73. “I’m kind of scared to draw attention to myself by doing so.”

    Then you are toast. Is it a matter of negotiation-compromise now? What else will do you avoid TPTB wrath? WordPress will never reveal their intentions until after TRM is offline.

    Until then you live in fear. Or not. That’s up to you.

    Apparently, covert threats are as good as overt threats. TRM hamster goes into high gear.

  74. The three Rs saved my soul. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, I pray for us all.

  75. Now feminists are trying to ban handshakes in the workplace because its unwanted physical contact and “creepy”. Where does this end?

    For fucks sake.

  76. Fact
    Now feminists are trying to ban handshakes in the workplace because its unwanted physical contact and “creepy”

    A link would help, if you have one.

    Of course we all know what that would be about: banning contact with Beta men.
    Totally predictable.

  77. Hey, can someone give me a heads up about what the beef is about Illimitable Man and The Red Pill?

    I have no idea.

  78. @Sentient – Hey!

    I’m around sometimes. I don’t really have time to read the comments often but I try to read the main TRM posts at least.

    In the early stages of my year abroad doing full-time intense physical training in [activity] and getting hammered both physically and mentally by the coaches and training. Wanted to do it for a long time, but actually in it now. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done (certainly physically the hardest for someone whose entire life has been sedentary and staring at a screen till the age of 40, but also mentally).

    Very rewarding though. Getting towards the end of the initial conditioning phase now – still wiped out at the end of every day but no longer physically shaking with exhaustion and right on the edge of being physically unable to walk ten minutes home like I was in the first couple of weeks. Now it’s moving more into the mental pressure and skill development (while maintaining the physical pressure). I’m basically in pain all the time from each day’s injuries. But a lot of old problems are sorting themselves out in ways that I did not expect and my fitness is improving rapidly (for example it’s doing wonders for my posture and the way I hold myself).

    No Game, no women, no time, no mental energy. Mainly because it’s about all I can do to get home, eat and collapse each day, partly the schedule means no spare time (6 days a week and admin stuff on Day 7), and partly because I speak zero of the local language and very few locals speak any English at all. And partly because I have no logistics (shared dormitory type accommodation where women are explicitly not allowed). Of course there are some opportunities – a few locals do speak English, there are tourists here and long conversations are not necessary in a loud club. But in some ways after the intense Game focus I had for the last few years and my “blitzes” and stuff, it’s perhaps healthy to not focus on it for a while. The only downside is that I seem to be watching a lot of Internet porn again – reminds me of being an incel teenager a long time ago – I thought I was past that with getting laid regularly. But the exercise and fitness and stuff are probably improving my testosterone levels too..

  79. As for the Heartiste thing – I think Rollo/AR/IAS have covered my views pretty well.

    Blax – I agree with your views about Heartiste (and Roosh, but less so – for all the unpleasant views he came across mostly as sad and pathetic looking for a reaction, especially after some of his older better content).

    But I only came to Heartiste after the old Roissy left and while I loved the archives, and the Game posts and I will always remember it for introducing me to the Red Pill and leading me to TRM, it slid seriously downhill in about 2015. I always found his politics nasty and unpleasant but I could ignore that and focus on the Game posts and the good discussions, but then the political stuff started to dominate and the commentariat started to decline, driven by the mod problems, and the tone got worse – it was never a sweetness and light blog, but it just became unbearably negative all the time which is just not how I look at the world. So when YaReally moved here to TRM in 2015, followed by HABD and Sentient, there was no longer any reason for me to stay there.

    By the end I’d glance at the main posts once every couple of months or so and it was basically an awful political rant interspersed with a bit of Game and filled with lunatics in the comments, with some honourable exceptions. I think Sentient occasionally commented till the end, I think Ripp (whose Game posts are great) also did. And there was a commenter whose name I can’t remember now (and obviously can’t check) who generally made a lot of sense – Sentient probably will remember his name. Think he was in his 40s, divorced dad with kids, worked out a lot and was ripped, maybe a lawyer? Or something like that. Bit of a natural, good Game. But few and far between.

    All that said, it’s the Niemoller thing. It’s not a good thing that “bad thought” is being erased from the Internet like this. I didn’t like Heartiste or agree with him, but there was a lot of good content there and it sure as hell didn’t deserve to be deplatformed.

    As others have said, easier targets come first – Rollo is much more sane in his tone and content so there’s less provocation, but it doesn’t take much – one misunderstanding, one thing to go viral, or even a general crackdown for some other purposes (like a pre-2020 cleanse) and TRM could be gone in a flash and that would be a great loss.

    Rollo, have you considered crypto as a payment solution instead of Patreon? The days of crypto-based web hosting (ie, decentralized/distributed hosting – so that one company cannot be targeted for hosting you) aren’t here yet, although it will be in a few years, but crypto payment stuff is much more ready for the mainstream. But this kind of thing is always an arms race. Yes, if you have independent hosting they can target that company, or go upstream to DNS etc, but each step up from WordPress gives you more protection and more of an effort to take you down..that’s true even if you move to crypto based stuff, but that will never end as long as you espouse ideas that the mainstream wants suppressed.

    Also, for a long time I have made a habit of saving the best posts that I want to refer back to on my system (I use Evernote, so cloud copy and local copy on my laptop) instead of hoping the main side will be up for me to refer to.

    Watching Heartiste, I’m glad I followed YaReally’s example and always made a big effort to maintain my anonymity and not reveal (too many) identifying details about myself to reduce the doxxing risk, but IAS’ post has got me thinking – there are several people here I’d like to meet and it’s so rare to find this kind of likeminded community that it may be worth giving up the anonymity and meeting some of you guys when I get home. You guys – and this place – have changed me, and my life for the better (and continue to do so) and as SJF says – you’re my Tribe and I would be sorry to lose these connections.

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