We live in a very dangerous age for men. The Blue Pill is even more of a liability today than it was in times past, because we live in an era that encourages men going all-in in their life’s investment in that conditioning.
Welcome to the #MeToo era. What we’re experiencing in our social environment today is a sea change in intersexual dynamics. The underlying fundamentals haven’t changed; our evolved natures and the latent purposes that are driven by them haven’t shifted, but the social dynamics and sexual acculturation that serve as checks and balances on them has drastically shifted, and in a very short time. While you could make an argument for an idealized free love era that took place right after the Sexual Revolution, now we find ourselves in a time that is so calculating in its design on intersexual social dynamics that it makes the late 60s seem romantically naive.
Back in October of 2014 I wrote a post called Yes Means Fear. This essay was a response to the, at that time new, Yes Means Yes sexual consent legislature that was being instituted on California university campuses. Dalrock had written similar essays regarding this latest form of sexual consent aptly titled The Sexual Revolution’s Arab Spring and Making the World Safe for Promiscuous Women. It may take you a while to review these posts, but please read these and skim the comments to get a gist of the conversations we had going on just three years ago.
One of these comments was the inimitable Deti:
At the end of the day, college women (soon all women) will be able to use the “lack of consent” law/policy as a weapon against undesirable men to do the following:
1. Weed out and eliminate unattractive men by chilling their conduct
2. Making even the most innocuous sexual conduct (i.e. approaching, asking for dates) so dangerous that the only men who will engage in the SMP are attractive men with proven successful sexual track records who will never get reported for doing anything “untoward”; thus ensuring that only attractive men will approach them for dates and sex
3. Giving women more power over the SMP so even unattractive women can use and select men for alpha fux; then have the sole ability to pursue and select men for beta bux when they see fit.
Open hypergamy. It will be “we women are going to do this, and if you want sex, you’ll do it our way, and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it.”
Deti posted this comment on October 15th, 2014. The inter-blog debate then (at places like the now defunct Hooking Up Smart) was that Yes Means Yes was solely meant as a firm response to the supposed on-campus rape /sex assault panic that was being circulated in the mainstream media at the time. From the Red Pill perspective, we saw what potential this legislation represented to what would later become a societal scale institution.
Of course, they called us reactionaries, called us ‘rape apologists’ for simply pointing out all the ways this legislation would be expanded to a societal scale. They said we were exaggerating when we illustrated that, even for long-married couples, there would need to be a check list of approved acts of intimacy for each and every act performed, and men would need some form of hard evidence to prove that consent had indeed been granted.
The new California college/university sexual assault policy requires the following:
“An affirmative consent standard in the determination of whether consent was given by both parties to sexual activity. “Affirmative consent” means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity. Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time. The existence of a dating relationship between the persons involved, or the fact of past sexual relations between them, should never by itself be assumed to be an indicator of consent.”
There was sex, which is clearly “sexual activity.” The question then becomes whether there was “affirmative consent”. In order for there not be consent, the woman would have had to show affirmative conscious and voluntary agreement to engage in sex with the man. It is the man’s responsibility to make sure he had that consent. She had to manifest, verbally or nonverbally, consent to it.
Silence doesn’t mean consent. Her not resisting or saying “no, please stop” doesn’t constitute “affirmative consent”. So really, the only way to make sure that consent is present is for the man to continue asking her throughout the encounter: “Is this OK? Can I keep doing this? Is this thrust OK with you? Is THIS thrust OK? Can I thrust again? How about this one? Can I keep going? Do you want me to stop?”
If that did NOT happen, if the man did not get EXPRESS, VERBAL statements that he could continue, then yes, there was sexual assault.
The way this plays out in situations like this is that verbal consent is REQUIRED. She cannot manifest “ongoing” “affirmative consent” any other way. That’s because of the way the law is written. Lack of protest is not consent. Lack of resistance is not consent. Silence is not consent. Thus, a wife, just lying there, starfishing it, giving duty sex to her husband, is putting him in jeopardy, because she is not manifesting “ongoing” “affirmative consent”.
All of that they said was ridiculous. Women would never be so petty as to make a man ask permission for, nor hold him accountable for, sex that she wanted to have with him. Furthermore, this ruling was only meant to curb campus assault; any extrapolating to a larger societal norm, we were told, was just us Red Pill men and their insecurities about the intentions of women and sex. If we’d Just Get It we’ll have no problems.
We were told it was limited to penis-in-vagina sex only. We were told it was just in cases of “drunken sex”. All of these proved false. This law was intended to govern, regulate and control every single sexual interaction between a man and a woman. This law is intended to require a man to get express consent at every single step of the process, from initial touch to banging. This law is intended to chill all male sexual conduct. This law by its very terms requires express consent for every sexual act, starting with kino.
The goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality – Heartiste
A World of Fear
When I wrote Yes Means Fear (also 3 years ago) it was initially in response to an article by Ezra Klein, Yes Means Yes is a terrible law, and I support it completely. This reads through as bad as any gender related article on Vox, but Klein’s salient point was summed up in one sentence.
To work, “Yes Means Yes” needs to create a world where men are afraid.
I’m reasonably sure Ezra was aware of the larger scope – larger than just California college campuses – that his giddy Beta love of a world where men would be afraid to so much as approach a woman would lead to. But now we find ourselves here in his idealized sexual marketplace founded on men fearing to interact with women at the risk of losing everything. At the risk of being Zeroed Out. Today, just three years later, we’re experiencing the #metoo moral panic based exactly in the fear Ezra said would serve us so well. Ezra must be proud that the gold rush hysteria of sexual misconduct allegations any and every woman (who ‘might’ have ever felt an accidental hip brush 50 years ago) feels entitled to is the result of this cleansing fear he loved so much. Unless he’s defending allegations himself of course.
If you go before the college board and say that the woman accusing you of assault simply doesn’t remember that she said yes because she was so drunk, then you’ve already lost.
Gone is the college board now in favor of the popular court of social justice – the court that condemns a man for even the suspicion of an allegation of sexual misconduct. Gone too is part of women’s remembering the pretense of a sexual encounter. Whether a woman was drunk and doesn’t remember the details, or if she conveniently recalls them 40-50 years after the fact is immaterial. The operative point is that we always believe any and every allegation of rape or misconduct a woman brings forward.
Articles of Belief
Shortly after I wrote Yes Means Fear I wrote Hysteria, an essay intended to address the disgraceful (now thoroughly proven) UVA fraternity rape hoax story written by Sabrina Erdley and published by a complicit Rolling Stone Magazine. Just daring to question the validity of so outrageous a rape account was heresy to women back then. Bear in mind this took place after the Yes Means Yes consent ruling in California. At this time, just to question the story of a woman’s rape account was enough to earn you the title of ‘rape apologist’. But moreover, we were popularly expected to repeat this mantra and always accept a woman’s account as infallibly true:
“No matter what Jackie said, we should automatically believe rape claims.” http://t.co/3HFlXR7jme True insanity pic.twitter.com/AFXIyn32FS
This was the sentiment (now deleted) tweeted by Zerlina Maxwell on December 6th, 2014. Since then this meme that anything a woman had to say about sexual assault must be believed by default has snowballed into a default belief that anything a woman alleges against a man must also be believed. Whereas a male college student might stand in front of his kangaroo court at a university, now men must stand in front of the kangaroo court of public opinion where a woman’s word outweighs all pretense of due process. That college kid is now the average man who must prove his innocence because if a woman alleges it due process is reversed.
What we’ve witnessed in just 3 years is the systematic removal of a man’s right to habeas corpus with regard to women’s allegations.
And I expect that this removal will extend to much more than just women’s believability in regard to sexual misconduct. Imagine a culture where it’s expected that anything a woman accuses her ex of is to be believed in divorce proceedings.
We’re now seeing exactly what myself, Deti, Dalrock and countless other Red Pill bloggers and commenters predicted would happen, but it’s also so much more that what we could see coming. In just 3 years Yes Means Yes moved off the campus and into mainstream culture; a culture predicated on female social primacy. In a feminine-primary social order even “affirmative consent” isn’t enough – “enthusiastic consent” must now be established and maintained. That “enthusiastic consent” is a new ambiguously defined terminology, and part of the larger narrative meant to further confuse and instill fear in men.
Last week Novaseeker, once again, had a terrific comment that illustrates what consent has come to today.
Yep, that’s the newest goalpost move.
We went from No means No (which meant that if she doesn’t say no, it’s on … which pretty much is the basic human mating script) to “affirmative consent” (“may I kiss you now” … “may I lick your breast now?”, etc., per the “rules” required before any physical contact *and* at “each stage of escalation”). Very few people actually follow affirmative consent, as we know, but it’s the rule at most colleges and universities. It isn’t the legal rule for rape, in terms of determining what was “consensual”, currently, but the FI is working on that, believe me.
Now, we have the goalposts moving even further along, from “affirmative consent” to “enthusiastic consent” — which means that if her consent is even verbally expressed, but isn’t clearly enthusiastic, then it isn’t “reliable as consent” because it could be the result of “pressure”, and if the consent “was real, it would be expressed enthusiastically, because when people really are consenting to sex, they’re always enthusiastic about it”. So essentially the standard they are pushing now (and which is getting rolled out on campuses right now) is that if the girl isn’t jumping your bones and begging for your cock, it’s rape/assault. Of course, again, not the legal standard, but that doesn’t matter that much — as we can all see what is happening right now is that the legal standard is being marginalized, because people can be destroyed in our media saturated environment without any involvement of the legal system at all, and the standards that apply in that extra-legal environment are the ones that the FI wants to apply, whether the legal system applies them or not.
There are a few ways to look at this, but one obvious one is that this is a way for the FI to tighten the screws on betas. Very little sex that betas have, if any, is “enthusiastic consent sex”. Everyone knows this. Under this standard, basically all sex with betas is rape. That’s the intention.
And thus we come full circle to the latent purpose of legislating Hypergamy that I’ve continually repeated in many essays. It is Roissy’s maxim of feminism: The end goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality.
Recently I found myself in a Twitter war on a story by CBS Los Angeles asking whether it was still OK for men to hug women. I used the cartoon I posted in The Creep 2 to illustrate my bigger point:
What's ironic is that women get this white hot rage for lesser men approaching them at all. It's an insult to their need to optimize Hypergamy. That's the depth of female solipsism, they are so certain of their entitlement to an Alpha that they see Beta men as an insult to them.
— Rollo Tomassi (@RationalMale) December 5, 2017
And of course the feminist tropes (from men and women) and the point & sputter ad hominem attacks flowed from there. However, this rage is precisely what I would expect from women who are now coming into a default expectation (entitlement) of all men to ‘Just Get It‘.
Only in this instance it is Blue Pill, Beta men who should know better than to approach a woman below their (self-perceived) sexual market value. Those men, the lesser men that her social media overinflated sense of SMV has convinced her are beneath her attraction floor should ‘just get it’ that they shouldn’t be flirtatious or even too friendly with her or risk the punishment of an allegation that might be his zeroing out. The Beta man who doesn’t ‘get it’ is an insult to her self-worth and deserving of an optimized Hypergamy.
In the next post I’ll be exploring the ramifications of the “enthusiastic consent” concept and how even consensual-but-unwanted sex and “duty sex” will be the next chapter in marital rape. I’ll also be detailing the the “Cat Persons” story that’s been making the rounds this week.
@Rollo These women-are-getting-abused-all-over-the-place hysterias pop up regularly in the MSM. Before Weinstein & friends it was “sexism in Silicon Valley” and before that it was Gamergate . . . and on and on and on with monotonous regularity. Some may also recall that a “sexual harassment is rampant in the workplace” hysteria arose in 2004 and generated lots of clickbait and magazine sales (yes, printed magazines were still a thing in 2004 🙂 Just like the #MeToo meme now, in that pre-hashtag world, the media was urging women to all “speak out about the harassment” that supposedly 75% of them… Read more »
Merry Christmas my friends!
The Ton salutes all y’all striving to be better at being men
SFC Ton And respect, homage, plus polite recognition (a salute) out to you and the men who comment here that don’t have to strive–otherwise know as Naturals. You guys, the mentors of unadulterated masculinity. Thanks for all your former comments and your blog. Your service to those who strive for being better men. Who understand striving is No Big Deal. It is a way of life. Great mentor-ship. A big thanks directed your way because your former contributions here were valuable. You are a great friend to the manosphere. A Merry Christmas to you and your extended family. Have fun… Read more »
For Being the best man ever
https://soundcloud.com/thedirectorscut/the-disaster-artist-with-james-franco-and-paul-haggis-ep-122
https://soundcloud.com/thedirectorscut/star-wars-the-last-jedi-with-rian-johnson-and-spike-jonze-ep-123
https://twitter.com/TommyWiseau/status/944480938431455233
https://www.c-span.org/video/?436331-1/hearing-focuses-college-campus-free-speech
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/upfront/2017/12/free-speech-protected-matter-171215083726784.html
http://historycooperative.org/the-right-to-speak-freely/
https://www.thefire.org/first-amendment-library/timeline/the-history-of-free-speech/
“They demanded perfect loyalty from followers, they overvalued themselves and devalued those around them, they were intolerant of criticism, and above all they did not like being questioned or challenged. And yet, in spite of these less than charming traits, they had no trouble attracting those who were willing to overlook these features.”
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders
https://youtu.be/Gdyy0BArH74
Merry Christmas Mr. Ton and may your health hold up yet another year.
And yeah, all you other fuckers too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qklRPgl0uxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2MZyKvNMBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3QJP78mog
Nephew just woke me up…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n79LnQ_CfsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBev3HJxXb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blgitGgRMso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3eVnsMC6Oc&t=1084s
@Rollo Good analysis. After arousal is over, a woman will evaluate a man’s frame, confidence, etc. using her cortex as well as her limbic system. If a man’s total SMV isn’t developed, then, after sex, a woman may think, “Ugh! I had sex with him?” Then there’s regret and maybe a nuclear rejection (FRA?) to follow. So, if a man is only focusing on developing what he needs to get laid, he will be leaving himself open to unnecessary risk. And his mental/social development will be weird, like a man who was lifting focused only on his upper body and… Read more »
“So, if a man is only focusing on developing what he needs to get laid, he will be leaving himself open to unnecessary risk. And his mental/social development will be weird, like a man who was lifting focused only on his upper body and ignored his core and legs.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x6dSKSDO9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyfsJT14qPQ
Missattribution of arousal is the Game
Precisely. This is the lost nuance Wrt pickup. Higher smv isn’t necessarily required to spark any initial sexual interest in a woman ( it doesn’t hurt though ) if you are only concerned with snl’s or just a bang. Lotsa chicks out there just looking for the ” D ” from a hawt gut regardless of whether he’s broke/unemployed or a criminal/asshole. Tingles are your friend. But in order to exponentially increase your appeal across a broader spectrum and widen your choices and opportunity, you gotta get your smv up if it hasn’t naturally risen over the course of time.… Read more »
@PlayDontPay “Appreciate the response, just need to ask why any attractive woman would give a low SMV man the chance to take her on tzhat emotional rollercoaster ride if she can’t see immediate value in him because of his low SMV?” Women don’t care about SMV……………..for the reasons I stated earlier but anyways………..It does matter if you are james bond and not being proactive because all they have to go on is your initial impression before you fuck up ( while your waiting and explaining your exciting lifestyle they won’t attribute to you or care about because they’re not experiencing… Read more »
“I think what Mersonia is (maybe willfully) ignoring is that generating tingles, emotional response, arousal, etc. in women is an integral part of a man’s SMV. He’s got to be “hawt” and trip her emotional triggers this is part of his SMV.” No .You are all ignoring that the initial tingles she gets from seeing you are part of societies image of X(person who looks like this ) pushed on her and she expects you to act a certain way because of it . So she has these expectations that you”ll be cool dude or have x attitude or be… Read more »
“The difference between pickup and smv. We didn’t have to do anything to spark interest short of showing up with our old, well dressed asses. Lol.” lol come on man. Old/young well dressed or not is irrelevant to girls. It’s the way you carry yourself that matters; “Janelle and I looked at each other, giggling uncontrollably. But that old bastard didn’t even notice. He just breezed in like he owned the damn place. Totally solo in a room where everyone was in groups. But he wasn’t phased. He was confident and youthful and relaxed. We watched as he strolled up… Read more »
@Blax soo you go to your wifes birthday party with ur old homies and you guys are the cool guys and your trying to say because you didn’t do anything which you clearly did the young girls wet cray to dance with you and thats surprising because you dont do pick up….. so to rehash …….your in a this social circle event for yourrrr wife ( her birthday??party(So your at your wifes birthday party and they all know you)) and u are big big group of sexy old guys having fun and people are clearly watching you because thats what… Read more »
@Playdontplay Mersonia looking down on men who need his help and mentoring instead of actually contributing positively again! lol I never looked down on anyone here…I don’t sugarcoat things because I respect…some of you. So when I say stuff like you’re really stupid don’t worry about the youre really stupid just think of the message im trying to get to you babe 😀 u know I luv u Attention and validation are the coin of the realm in girl world. Are you a girl mersonia? My girl said the same thing. I wonder if your a guy and if you… Read more »
I don’t know if this story was shared here before but i just died laughing
https://www.maxim.com/sports/fletcher-cox-eagles-seduce-woman-2017-12
https://www.maxim.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_80%2Cw_600/MTUxNzg5NTMzODg3NzM1MjU3/screen-shot-2017-12-01-at-111413-am.webp
https://www.maxim.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_80%2Cw_600/MTUxNzg5NTMzODg3ODAwNDQ2/screen-shot-2017-12-01-at-111318-am.webp
Folks are talking about the same thing, but in different ways. In order to get a girl, you MUST have some kind of value, at least relative to her other options. The question is are you getting that high value from being a good long term provider — by having money and physical things you can provider her, or are you getting that high value from being a good short term fuckbuddy — by being able to trigger her emotions and tingles and give her the fantasy of being with an “artiste” or a “hunky muscly dude”. Either way, you… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMno0Yb9ue4&feature=push-lsb&attr_tag=v9ghoCHnOUSSi1iX-6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brZ-EZCXqqI
“Mersonia arguing that SMV doesn’t matter to girls — he’s referring to the provider SMV.” Mersonia is setting up a strawman to knock down. He is doing it to make a point, and one which is valid, but he’s doing it all stupid, which is the only real reason he’s generating pushback. A man’s SMV is defined by women. The “S” stands for SEXUAL, and the “M” stands for MARKET, and these words have meaning. As a side note, James Bond was a salaried, military job working stiff (officially he was a desk bound Commander of the Royal Navy and… Read more »
“You don’t need money or status or any of those things society says you need to get chicks — but you still have to have some value. Instead of generating value from income and status, you can instead gain value from being able to spark emotions.” Straw Man argument also. You don’t need money or status. But I’ll be damned if a man who is in his own Frame doesn’t benefit by those two. Even if it his for his own pursuit and passion. Sour grapes? Can you argue for not wanting or desiring money or status? Would you argue… Read more »
@kfg I fail to see how mersonia’s point–as you have stated it–is controversial. Betas don’t have high SMV. They might have high MMV because of money and stability. Money and stability are irrelevant in determining a man’s SMV. If a man does push/pull well (say, 2 pushes for every pull), he will generate a lot of attraction. I know a young guy with 14 notches according to him, which is far more than my count. However, he was shocked that a smoking hot bartender girl was giving me a little more whiskey than a bartender buddy gave him. I introduced… Read more »
@ASD:
The SMP is a live floor auction. Just because you can’t afford it doesn’t imply that you don’t want it, and maybe even make a hail mary bid on it.
But whatever the winning bid ends up being, that is the price, by definition.
I think for the most part the future looks bleak. Not too long ago I had seen a video of a young college student, who was presumably of Indian descent. He had gone to a prestigious College and at some point in the college time he had gone to some nightclub, and while at the nightclub he was seen via CCTV getting picked up by a girl who would later go out of her way to allege that she had been forcibly raped by this boy. In the end he got off, due to the amount of camera evidence that… Read more »
Women are attracted to high value Value = status, game, looks What men think is high status, game, or looks is not necessarily what (most) men think it is. A high ranking on one of the attributes can make up for a deficit in the others. Ideally, however, you want to get as high as possible in all three. Work on yourself as a man to gain higher status — not necessarily within society at large, but at least within a set group. You can also gain better social skills so you can take over any groups you come across… Read more »
Correction. Should read “What most WOMEN think is high status, game, or looks is not necessarily what (most) men think it is.”
“But whatever the winning bid ends up being, that is the price, by definition.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd2pBde6gkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1e3NC3IIF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiCNpDYavbg
“Value = status, game, looks”
Leadership in group
“What most WOMEN think is high status, game, or looks is not necessarily what (most) men think it is.””
Performance (Internal acceptance and creation)
kfg
@hank holiday “Folks are talking about the same thing, but in different ways.” That’s precisely the issue as I see it here. However, what these differences in classifications, theories and skills are referring to are the tools we men use for a specific purpose. Unfortunately, the purpose (e.g. long term vs. short term) factors back to how the issue is approached (i.e. how it is conceptualized) and hence the difference in articulation. Now we as men, love talking about tools, systematising and comparing different methods so that we all can improve. Girls/Women just want the toilet fixed, they don’t care… Read more »
However, we don’t like to be reminded of our own ignorance, AND have people point out the obvious. For example, one thing would be that for other people to be nice to you, you have to extend that kindness as well, disregarding the promise of reciprocation [e.g. the so called ‘Christmas spirit’] . This and many other values, seems to me to be something of a reoccuring theme in occidental thought. However, since I cannot talk about these things we are discussing here with my fellow monkey’s within academia in my chosen nomenclature (or they will throw poo at me)… Read more »
My prognostication is that consent will eventually come in the form of a written agreement. Verbal consent will not serve as solely, solid tool to gauge the validity of an agreement.Other means will also suffice that had not been previously considered for example the presence of a witness or video footage of the verbal agreement.
“SMV from a short term, Alpha Fucks perspective vs. the long term Beta Bucks“
Is there no such thing as long term, Alpha fucks perspective, ever? He’s consistantly pings her, over years?
SMV doesn’t apply much to Beta Bucks, now would it? At least the sexuality part, as defined. Perhaps Provider Market Value appllies to Beta.
What length of time is considered long term?
“However, we don’t like to be reminded of our own ignorance,”
Not me, if y’all haven’t figured out.
The whole escalating ‘ consent ‘ bullshit will end when men collectively push back because they have an understanding of how it negatively impacts all men, especially themselves. As with most problems, knowledge is the final answer.
Unfortunately what recent history is showing us, is that men will just check out in massive numbers and this means that 10 year old boys today will have zero role models and examples of how to navigate any kind of intersexual relationship and compliance becomes the order of the day.
Buy dildo stock.
“men collectively push back”
80% of men are varying shades of Beta, thus they’ll be no coordinated push back of men. The other 20% varying shades of Alpha will deal with it as they usually do, paying women no mind.
“10 year old boys today will have zero role models”
Zero?
Where’s your Christmas cheer? Torrey Pines calling you….
IDK Eh… The thirst is real
http://www.newsweek.com/metoo-microsoft-amazon-trafficking-prostitution-sex-silicon-valley-755611
“Police and prosecutors in the Seattle area began to focus on the prostitution “hobbyists” with a sting operation that targeted the operators of three online review boards on which up to 18,000 men rated and discussed a relatively small group of Korean women.”
Of course a lot of these “bros” are H1B visa…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK_IA_24J9w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFxgJ4los3I
The whole escalating ‘ consent ‘ bullshit will end when men collectively push back because they have an understanding of how it negatively impacts all men, especially themselves. As with most problems, knowledge is the final answer. Unfortunately what recent history is showing us, is that men will just check out in massive numbers and this means that 10 year old boys today will have zero role models and examples of how to navigate any kind of intersexual relationship and compliance becomes the order of the day. Pretty much, Blax, yes. I don’t expect any pushback at all from men,… Read more »
any thoughts on this?
https://www.economist.com/news/christmas-specials/21732695-plural-marriage-bred-inequality-begets-violence-link-between-polygamy-and-war
seems like the article is trying to create a cause-effect for what I think are more symptoms of something else… can’t quite articulate what it is
I would amend slightly to say: not just 10 year old boys who will have zero role models. Try 20 year old boys right now. They are bombarded in college freshmen orientation and now high schools that all unwanted communications are assaults, which, if umbrage is taken, will get you suspended or expelled.* In larger businesses, HR departments will discourage interoffice socializing, since repeated harassment allegations can void their their employee practices liability insurance coverage. I don’t think there will be a pushback as such, just a lot of unhappiness among the Beta majority and the women rejected by the… Read more »
“Seattle has the fastest-growing sex industry in the United States, more than doubling in size between 2005 and 2012. That boom correlates neatly with the boom of the tech sector there.“ The tech sector is booming in Redmond, huh? Only just? Nah, foreign labor booms since 2005. “Demand for H-1B workers has boomed in recent years. In each of the past five years, the H-1B visa cap has been reached within a week of the application period opening. The number of applications rose from 124,000 for fiscal 2014 to 236,000 in 2017, before dropping to 199,000 for fiscal 2018. By… Read more »
and this one here:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170315-the-invention-of-heterosexuality
can’t get a woman?… it’s all in your head, just try sucking a dick since wanting pussy is a matter of social construct, not biology
somehow this is all intertwined with the BP/FI narrative and it takes someone better than I to explain it
This sex industry thing collides with business, political desire to import as many foreigners and the misfitting culture they bring. There’s no easy scapegoat for Newsweek. Look for what’s not reported for the real story.
The media key holders at Newsweek and elsewhere run a catering business, base its allegiance on this hierarchy: Gays then women then foreign born then native men.
“base its allegiance on this hierarchy”
Dr. Zipper,
“While heterosexual sex is clearly as old as humanity, the concept of heterosexuality as an identity is a very recent invention”
Progressive redefining of existence. It never stops.
Only non heterosexuals pride themselves on their identity. It’s weird but I’m not surprised.
@AR & RA – True, I was thinking of Arnie in the 80s. I’m an old guy 🙂 Replace his name with today’s stone cold alpha of your choice.
@ Sportsdroppings – “What the new phenomenon is establishing is that women can claim or jettison their own sexual agency depending on how they feel after the fact…” You hit the nail on the head. And that is a scary thing. Put that together with laws aimed at men based upon a woman’s feelings about an interaction and you have a recipe for societal destruction.
Once again, and try not to get so hung up on the looks or affluence part this time, a man’s SMV includes his capacity to generate tingles, emotional impact, associative feelings, etc. Secondly, while I’m sure acculturation is a key element in women’s expectations, it is still those expectations of congruent behavior associated with that appearance that contributes to SMV. I’m not gonna rehash the YaReally years, but there are elements to a man’s value that women consciously and subconsciously acknowledge (and as modified by their own self-value). While emotional impact may be the primary trigger for women, there are… Read more »
A little more thoughtful editorial.
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/414219-sex-political-correctness-relations/
“SMV includes his capacity to generate tingles, emotional impact, associative feelings…”
This explanation would include a wealthy provider who wields his cash so, that her hindbrain is emotionally stirred, not so much from his cash value but from his genotype able to generate it.
This guy could maintain high SMV while providing.
An example being earned success is sexier than lottery winnings.
Rollo
I’m sure acculturation is a key element in women’s expectations, it is still those expectations of congruent behavior associated with that appearance that contributes to SMV.
Sure, that’s how a man can seduce a women when they only share a few words of a common spoken language – subcommunications / congruence is also communication.
Mandatory sexual harassment training just dropped at my work. We’re a little late to the game, it seems. In other news regarding zeroing out, suicide and dangerous times, I have found over the years a massive frustration in how men are separated from each other by having male spaces, work places and even family life being infiltrated by women. This was long before the manosphere really took root. Just getting married does it to many men. As my two good friends got married in the late 90’s, our friendships clearly changed. In my own case, becoming a father (a decade… Read more »
I was about to get all shirty about anybody citing to Russia Today (rt.com) for anything. I mean, Russia’s content intended for the West is fuckery first, truth-telling tenth or so. I can tell the piece was written by a Second-language English speaker, the grammar is just a bit off, though he’s pretty good. But after all that is said, I found this: https://consentshop.com/collections/consent-contracts-and-yes-means-yes-guides-affirmative-consent How many of your dicks fell off just looking at the products there? (They surely would if you were the sort to actually hand any of them out to a prospect and expect something good to… Read more »
“precious few men can embrace that idealized degree of Alpha indifference after a lifetime of being taught to be caring, attentive, devoted, sensitive, etc., and all the other pro-social personal attributes that women say are important. And they still are important, to the greater whole of a functioning society – they’re just not factors in arousal that comes even close to the effect of an idealized Alpha indifference” good stuff from Rollo via CH ca. ’11. upthread sounds kind of like: “some traits associated with psychopathy such as early, promiscuous, adulterous, and coercive sexuality may increase reproductive success” “It’s uncomfortable… Read more »
highly recommend this short read, it’s quite good: http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bschwar1/self-determination.pdf “… traditional constraints on choice may tell people in which domains of their lives the principles of rational choice are allowed to operate. They may protect patterns of behavior that are especially important to the functioning of the culture by removing them from the domain of choice altogether. Cultural traditions invest certain practices with a great deal of moral significance so that people will be discouraged from regarding them as matters of individual choice at all. Traditional morality serves as a kind of preventive medicine, protecting people from themselves…” “…For many… Read more »
I’ve used the example before, but women will make conscious decisions whether to sleep with a guy based on their estimation of whether the guys is “relationship material” or not. And the backwards ass logic is women will bang the fuck boys without an afterthought, and make the ‘relationship’ guy wait so as not to be thought of as a slut. Regardless, there is still a process of evaluation that’s taking place. Yep, although I would say that the “logic” is actually perfectly sound. For a fuckboi, they just want to fuck, so there’s no need or use in deploying… Read more »
@Rollo @SMV @mersonia @Guys commenting on all this I was only going for a general overview right quick to show how everyone is saying the same thing but in different ways. The 3 key points are: #1 SMV comes in two scales, short term AF and long term BB. Each scale tends to be inversely correlated with the other. What rates a guy high on one scale with generally rate him lower on the other scale. #2 There is a difference between the initial impression of SMV and the actual, long term SMV. This is what causes a lot of… Read more »
Fred Flange, Russophobe I was about to get all shirty about anybody citing to Russia Today (rt.com) for anything. I mean, Russia’s content intended for the West is fuckery first, truth-telling tenth or so. I can tell the piece was written by a Second-language English speaker, the grammar is just a bit off, though he’s pretty good. Does the article make sense, or not? Does it offer any sort of insight, or not? Maybe you could try addressing those questions, instead of having a little fit? Yes, RT is not on the Approved List of Approved Approvable Sources like, say,… Read more »
So for a BB of course they will use restricted/managed sexual access — it’s too valuable a tool not for them to use it, and their primary goal there is to rope him in. With a fuckboi, the primary goal is the lay, From an evo-bio viewpoint, the alpha represents elite genetic material they have to capture, immediately. The beta represents resources, but there is no immediate need for his mediocre genes. In fact they’d be better off minimizing sex with him while cuckolding him with an alpha. Their consciousness seems to rationalize the less passionate, less frequent BB sex… Read more »
@Rollo While emotional impact may be the primary trigger for women, Push/pull is primary for a particular woman. Preselection is important for women in a particular context…e.g., social circle, club, band gig, dance studio, hiking meetup group, whatever. Mersonia forgets the importance of Preselection. Preselection makes gaming high value women easier. The HB10s take notice when the HB8s are competing for a man. A man’s value to a particular woman may depend on context. For example, a random biker may be high value in a dance studio, but low value in a biker bar. A well-skilled dancer may be high… Read more »
@asd Sure sure, I was just arguing against the notion I see floated around that “see look girls pick handsome guys on tender exponentially more often than regular dudes, so looks must count for a whole lot more” and yes that is very much true to a certain extent, but there are nuanced details to all this. I agree body language counts for a whole lot, as you say, but things like being muscular and handsome STILL DO count (at least in the initial impression) quite a bit, as do things like style and appearing to belong to a particular… Read more »
Should read
“girls don’t care if you DO NOT have high long term beta bucks SMV, provided you have high short term alpha fucks SMV.”
lol.
I’ve witnessed slouching, mumbling assed dudes pull plenty.
To followup on my previous comment, here’s an interesting old thread in a female-oriented site: https://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/my-fiance-found-out-about-my-recent-past-what-can-i-do/ None of the female commentors here seem aware of one the main reasons, or main reason even, why the poster’s fiancee was so upset. It wasn’t specific acts that she wouldn’t perform with him that she did in the past (3somes? buttstuff?) but that she was generally reserved and unenthusiastic when it come to sex in general. Classic AF/BB behaviour. She herself alluded to it on p2: NO, my fiance is absolutely NOT a loser. I’ve dated enough of them to know better. I… Read more »
@blax
I’ve witnessed slouching, mumbling assed dudes pull plenty.
Go on.
What did they do? What did they look like? What was the venue and what was going on in there.
re: body language
8:18 – 9:00
18:25 – 20:00
hank holiday
SMV comes in two scales, short term AF and long term BB.
You are conflating SMV and MMV, even in the marriage 2.0 world.
@CSI “The logic of why he was so upset seem obvious. That strange men who weren’t committing anything received her sexual best, while he, who is willing commit a very great dealt to her, gets her sexual dregs. That’s male logic though, which seemed to sail right past these ladies.” Horseshit. Women know why we get pissed about this. But they never all know at once(since some are actually dating alphas) solipsism, you know. So it’s the job of one of the older whores(or self-appointed clerics of feminism) to inform the younger ones and only at crucial times like when… Read more »
“IF YEW KANT FIND 1 WOOMAN TA FUCK HIM, I GOT WORK TO DOO!!”
Lol. Tyler.
I hope Tyler gets severe laryngitis.
@AR You are conflating SMV and MMV, even in the marriage 2.0 world. This is exactly what I am talking about — saying the same thing in different ways. There are two scales, one for AF/short term and another for BB/long term. I called those both SMV, but there’s a AF SMV and a BB SMV You call the same thing SMV (sexual market value) for AF, and MMV (which I assume means marriage market value) for BB. Its the same thing, just using different terms. I like yours better though since you have a distinct term for each: Sexual… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7w4fdcCCo8&feature=push-u&attr_tag=cQys1ON-EcCwNAPz-6 hank holiday “Now where I will add in my piece, I believe game is the superior category when compared to status (which we’ll say includes job, social network, money, etc) and looks, because game alone can not only make up for deficits in the other two, but can actually emulate the other two categories. Instead of working to gain status, you can simply use your social skills to befriend all the cool people in the club and boom its as if you were always a part of that group. See a bunch of rich doctors? SHAZAM! Now you are… Read more »
@androgynous redditor:
Don’t need to look under the bed for Russians. I just look in the mirror. PAY ATTENTION. You know, doing a case officer gag and all.
I goofed a wee bit on Rt.com and lived. Then, being intrigued, I looked up something the article itself cited I’d not heard of and verified it was so, then shared it here. So it’s no way an ad hominem attack. Gall bladder, maybe.
Remember: we Russians don’t save shit. Fuck shit up? Hell to the yeah. Now back to my graveyard shift on Sputnik Radio…
@Hank Better dopamine feelings via music: You play just what you feel Drink Scotch whiskey all night long And die behind the wheel They got a name for the winners in the world You want a name when you lose They call Alabama the Crimson Tide Call you Deacon Blues…–Steely Dan Deacon Blues …Oh the mud splattered victims Have to pay out all along the ancient highway Torn between half truth and victimization Fighting back with counter attacks I was flabbergasted by the headlines People in glasshouses throwing stones Gaping wounds that will never heal Now they’re moaning like a… Read more »
hank holiday
You call the same thing SMV (sexual market value) for AF, and MMV (which I assume means marriage market value) for BB.
Its the same thing, just using different terms.
No, it is not the same thing. That’s why we use two different terms. You can search this site for several articles by Rollo disussing SVM vs MMV.
Remember: we Russians don’t save shit.
LOL, that proves you’re not Russkie. They never throw stuff away if it could be used. The Moscow militia marched out towards Napoleon’s army with 150 year old pikes drawn from storage. The real Russians may have finally scrapped the last WW II armored fighting vehicles. Maybe. There were still enough available to film Ghost Tiger, though so I wonder how many more T34-85’s, SU100’s etc. are still in storage. Just in case. Because if one has the only tank in town, by definition it’s the best tank in town.
Body language conveys social dominance…ignore the confusing bullshit about frame.
Blax isn’t helping explain. A slouch ass guy with rotted teeth can AMOG a high class scion and show social dominance despite his unattractive body language. Things are complicated, but we already know that. We are trying to understand and that requires simplification.
The difference though is that high status and looks are PASSIVE
Looks aren’t passive. Body language isn’t passive. Vigor isn’t passive.
@theasdgamer
you can’t actively demonstrate that fact that you’re good looking. You’re either good looking or you’re not aka passive. You CAN however demonstrate high status body language, but if a girl shit tests you and you fail or fail to have an emotional impact on her or someone with average looks/body language actively steps up and AMOGs you in front of the girl you’re talking to, despite you conveying the better “socially dominant” body language, you will go home with your dick in your hand. Game > everything else
Composer and presentation
https://youtu.be/hnqmNmmyUsM
“Move forward. And get laid. Go with the rhythms of life and choose among the possibilities that present themselves to you. There is a whole beautiful life out there in front of you. Make the best of it. Life is more than semantics on the internet.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Am2UdU-vDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmXRwRYhlNg
“Go with the rhythms of life and choose among the possibilities that present themselves to you. There is a whole beautiful life out there in front of you. Make the best of it. Life is more than semantics on the internet.”
https://www.iasassessment.com/session/logon/saFutureAuthoring
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-japan-comfortwomen/comfort-women-row-with-japan-unresolved-despite-2015-deal-south-korea-says-idUSKBN1EL0AF
118 yrs
http://read.bi/2BXTt4U
Treat yourself as if your someone your caring for…
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Shambhala;The_Sacred_Path_of_the_Warrior_by_Chogya.pdf
@ EhIntellect
Yes, you’re totally right, bro. We must stop shaming BP men and give them a lift up, best as we can. My beef is really with the pathetic SJW’s i suppose, ’cause i can relate to that a bit from my past. A long time ago… It is true that we all must lead by positive example, if nothing else…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZo6PLUHOOs
“in many many situations you look at the circumstances and you think that the person who is called the victim is merely disappointed”
you can’t actively demonstrate that fact that you’re good looking. You’re either good looking or you’re not aka passive. You CAN however demonstrate high status body language,
you mean the dog version of looks = facial bone shape, skin quality, hair quality, etc….but I was talking about the cat version…
“high status body language” = “looks” for cats, so, for girls, looks aren’t passive
“We must stop shaming BP men and give them a lift up, best as we can. My beef is really with the pathetic SJW’s i suppose, ’cause i can relate to that a bit from my past.” True. Actively or passively, personally and socially, everyone benefits when men live RP. There’s isolated people on both sides, frustrated BP guys as unknowing tools and newly RP guys, angry, trying to leave their pasts behind them. I like your bush perspective, independent guys, coming together when needed. Vis a vie I’m dependent on the urban system, the state, don’t fully realize how… Read more »
Looks aren’t passive. Body language isn’t passive. Vigor isn’t passive.
http://media.riffsy.com/images/4f39d82a5874c7d0b3fa2c4924e4577e/tenor.gif
@Eh Intellect My New Years Resolution for 2017 was “kill the fear”. It was a struggle. I was still afraid to escalate mid year with certain girls I gamed. I was afraid to assert myself at times. But I ploughed on. By the end of the year a project i had worked on came together in a surprising way. I was afraid it would fail because many things were working against me. But I made contingencies and it was a massive success socially financially and was a huge boost to my inner game. Next year’s resolution will be a continuation… Read more »
If men didn’t give a fuck on what feminists say, todays society wouldn’t have been so bitter like that… You give them sooooo damn care about their feelings that they feel encouraged and walks for more… Every mother whether influenced by that doctrine or not, subconsciously is aware of that dynamic of power, go anywhere in the world, but when men are aware and in suitable outer environment boys eventually become like men…. Feminists couldn’t make a shitty progress if guys like you didn’t give a fuck… Even today, you walk like a Man , talk like a Man; they… Read more »
https://www.scienceofpeople.com/deep-questions-to-ask-your-significant-other/
“everyone benefits when men live RP.
There’s isolated people on both sides, frustrated BP guys as unknowing tools and newly RP guys, angry, trying to leave their pasts behind them.”
http://www.thebookoflife.org/22-questions-to-reignite-love/
ASD
Like the posture point about “framing your manhood.” Gotta remember that. But why do I somehow envision a comedy skit with Steve Martin trying this out not-so-subtly?
Patrol, you clinched the looks discussion with the gif.
wala, great work on your projects
EI, I like your approach to BP guys. Don’t try to Red Pill them until they need it. Use them as your orbiters until they need the Red Pill.
AMOG Battle!!!: Man (game) vs Lion (looks):
@walawala “Hanging with RP dudes would be great it’s just I don’t know any. They simply don’t exist here. Most of the guys I know are pussies. “Friends” of mine showed themselves to be beta orbiter fuckwits.” Lol. Better than I said it. I’m willing to work with what I can get. Perhaps you’ve noticed it’s easier to make buddies on the fly while out, they’ll follow along, enjoy your company. They’ll talk Alpha until they receive blowback, sober up or must lean out. They can’t imagine fearlessness. If I’ve learned anything on this journey, I’ve had a habit investing… Read more »