The ‘Creep’ – Part 1

What makes a guy “creepy”?

For almost every woman I polled in researching this essay what makes a guy ‘creepy’ is the inability of a guy to ‘take a hint’.

Most seemed to believe that there was some ‘obvious’ (to them) boundary that ‘creepy’ men always crossed that made them into creeps. If that sounds a lot like my principle of ‘Just Get It’ you’re not too far off. Much of this goes back to women’s innate psychological filtering for optimizing Hypergamy and women expect men to ‘just get’ everything about intersexual dynamics, both positive and negative. However, there is a fundamental difference between what men define as creepy (in a general sense) and what women ‘feel’ is creepy with regards to creepy men. I’ll go into both in this essay, but it’s important to make this distinction because for both men and women there is a peripheral awareness about other people’s behavior that sets off psychological triggers which inform us that something isn’t quite right about that person and to beware of danger.

Personally, I believe we have evolved a pretty good instinct about what makes us feel unsafe about other people. For people who have some sort of clinical neurosis sometimes all it takes is to listen to that person’s speech or watch their mannerisms. If you meet someone who is drunk, it’s pretty easy to diagnose that person’s state without having to smell their breath. We instinctively get a feeling that this person is not speaking (slurring) or behaving like a sober person would. Drunkenness is an easy illustration of this instinct, but the same goes for true forms of insanity (schizophrenia, paranoia, bipolar disorder). Unless we’re really naive or just ignoring the indicators we can tell when a person is off.

Dementia and Alzheimers are easy diagnoses too. From there though, by degrees of subtlety, we really have to hone our senses to what’s right or wrong about a person’s behavior. What’s more difficult to wrap our heads around is sussing out people who have a better capacity to hide their disorders. Autism, Asperger’s Syndrome or just acute social awkwardness is sometimes manageable and we either accept it as part of their personality or we understand it as a disorder and we (as “normies”) choose to ignore it. This is where the social conditioning of today does us a disservice to some extent.

In our feminine-primary social order of tolerance and acceptance, this innate, often peripheral or unconscious, sense of understanding that something is off about someone is something we are taught we ought to keep sublimated. We don’t want to appear “judgmental” or we’re shamed for actually heeding the messages our instincts are telling us are red flags about people. Conditions and disorders that we used to consider abnormalities in the past are things we’re expected to progressively have more and more empathy for. That isn’t to say that we ought not be sympathetic to a person’s condition, but it is to say that this expectation of acceptance reduces our capacity to listen to what our instinct is telling us about a person. We get conditioned to tuning out our natural instincts about a person who may want to harm or manipulate us.

I mentioned this hindbrain instinct in Gut Check as being one reason we tend to get jealous or possessive of our mates.

Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.

The dynamic of Mate Guarding is also a behavioral adaptation that evolved to ensure our paternity or parental investment with a mate. Our social order today teaches us that men who feel jealousy, suspect infidelity or are prone to mate guard are by definition “insecure”. This redefining is meant to cover for women’s control of Hypergamy, in the hopes that men will self-police these instincts, but in doing so they become sublimated. So we self-convince that it’s wrong for us to heed what our hindbrain is telling us for our own preservation.

However, when it comes to women’s instincts we exaggerate their importance beyond all realistic measure. Since we prioritize women’s hindbrain perception and feeling above all else, we would never downplay their importance without risking a lot of social fallout and shame. Whereas men’s instincts are signs of ‘insecurity’, women’s instincts (feminine intuition) are raised to a metaphysical level. So when a woman says a guy “creeps her out” or is acting “creepy” we tend to misunderstand what exactly it is her hindbrain is telling her and us. There are two aspects of ‘creepy’ to women:

  • The sense of self-preservation and imminent danger that is associated with a man whom her hindbrain is telling her that there’s something not quite right about. The guy is directly communicating or subcommunicating that he may be a potential threat to her wellbeing. Her intuition is something that is exaggerated beyond all reasonable, realistic perception, but her subconscious only knows what it knows and the social conditioning kicks in to be overly cautious. This may or may not be the actual case, but women evolved to err on the side of over-cautiousness – particularly when it comes to men’s behavioral cues and perceptions of anger.
  • The sense of insult to her capacity to optimize Hypergamy with a suboptimal male makes her “creeped out”. In this sense the “creep” offends her hindbrain’s expectation of reproducing with the best genetic partner her ego believes is really her due. As you’ll see in a moment, when a physically arousing man repeats the same behavior as a less-arousing man the feeling of ‘creep’ is diminished. Much of this has a lot to do with that guy’s sense of congruency between his behavior (sub-communications) and her intuition about his authenticity, but largely the initial ‘hotness’ of one man vs. a less hot one can spell the difference between a “creep” and “awkward-but-cute”. Arousal compensates for a lot of behavioral miscues, but the point is that this sense of ‘creepiness’ is fundamentally based in a woman’s ego-sense of losing direct control of Hypergamy and her capacity to optimize it. What ‘creepy’ distills down to is a woman’s Hypergamous-level revulsion of a man believing he may be someone she would eventually have sex with. Creepy is an insult to Hypergamy.

In both these instances it’s important to consider that we’re talking about both an instinctual dynamic and how it’s been modified by our social order. The following are a few of the most common descriptions of ‘creepy’ I was able to collate for this essay:

Getting in my personal space when I don’t know/barely know you. It’s weird and uncomfortable, and if you’re bigger than me then it can feel quite intimidating.

When I worked in a bar one guy told me I was prettier than anyone else there. But he kept going on about how they weren’t attractive and had nothing to offer as far as looks go. Yeah? Some of those are my dearest friends you’re bashing.

When I make it clear I’m not interested and he keeps trying. It makes me feel uncomfortable and it puts me in a bad position cause there are only so many times you can politely turn someone down.

Over Persistence

It’s an unfortunate but totally predictable response to much of our entertainment, where the storyline involves a man “winning” an initially uninterested woman either by wooing her directly or by performing some great feat. We’ve seen this archetypal story for centuries (since the rise of courtly love). Persistence is always rewarded in Disney Blue Pill fantasies Everyone is the hero of their own story. So if you’re raised on stories like that, of course you don’t take an initial “no” as the final answer. It’s all part of the story. You’re the hero and you want her, so you’ll get her in the end.

Persistence is always a sensitive topic in the ‘sphere. Some guys will tell you that even without Indicators of Interest a woman is only a conversation away from being into you if your Game is good enough to convince her. Others will tell you to balance your efforts and play to your strengths; why bother with a dead end if other opportunities are available? In either case a guy can come off as creepy when he takes this persistence to the extreme. It’s one thing to not “take a hint” from a woman, it’s an order of degree worse when a guy persists in not taking that hint because he’s been taught he’ll be rewarded for persistence.

I have had the “attempts-at-polite-rejection” turn scary (thankfully, the worst it ever got was being slammed into a wall) enough times that as soon as someone doesn’t take “no” for an answer once, I start internally freaking out.

Persistence when a woman has rejected a guy is the top complaint of creepiness. Women expect a guy to ‘just get it’. Social retardation (I mean that in a clinical sense) and Blue Pill conditioning teach a guy to never give up, to believe in some kind of predestination or romantic soul-mate date with fate, and all he needs to do is be persistent and a woman will come to the same romantic-but-logical conclusion.

Women make the mistake of believing all guys understand when they are communicating rejection to them – they very often don’t, and for the same reason they’ve been taught to be zealously persistent. The Blue Pill makes them resistant to this. Blue Pill ‘creeps’ usually respond with either anger or self-pity when they finally realize their predestined girl not only rejects him, but she is scared of him or despises him. So the Nice Guy turns mean and vindictive, or he loses faith in his Blue Pill romanticization and gets despondent. Both are potentially volatile for the Beta.

I think a lot of well-meaning Beta “Nice Guys” come off as creepy simply because they follow a Blue Pill old-books script they believe will be reciprocated by women. Much of this creepiness is the result of their inability to do a realistic assessment of their own SMV. This is a tough bit of insight even for Red Pill aware men, but for Blue Pill guys it’s almost impossible because they are struggling against a social conditioning that constantly tells them what they do and who they are is ‘enough’ – or should be enough for any girl who’s of a quality to appreciate their unique-but-commonness.

In a way it’s a lot like today’s women’s egos being overinflated by social media and our present social narrative to the point that they believe their own SMV is, or should be, enough for any man, but especially men who are well above their own SMV. More than enough actually. So too does the ‘creep’ believe his own pathological self-impression. The problem here is that, for men,  we must be the initiators and with that comes the potential to be taken as an aggressor or harasser.

Where’s my hug?

I think one potentially bad outcome for the ‘creep’ is when he comes across something like a PUA program and watches an ‘instructor’ run through a set and then tries his damnedest to repeat the same behaviors and script with a girl he thinks he may have a chance with. When a PUA presumes familiarity with a woman he doesn’t know, and his internal game is congruent with his delivery, it comes off as authentic and it can (potentially) be endearing. But when a Beta ‘creep’, who’s trying his best to solve his creepiness problem, presumes the same behavior will endear him to a girl – and isn’t congruent, or doesn’t “get it” – he gets even more despondent (or frustrated/aggravated) when all it does is reinforce and enhance his perception of creepiness.

A common Game technique is to presume a familiarity with a woman. When PUA with Game and congruency approaches a woman and says “where’s my hug?” the effect is the polar opposite of when an incongruent Beta delivers the same line. Worse still, the guy risks not just overt rejection and creepiness perception, but he also runs the risk of having his approach considered sexual assault by order of degree. I would argue that a lot of what would otherwise be considered witty banter from a skilled PUA is creepy to women when it comes from a struggling Beta who a woman doesn’t find arousing.

This dynamic also extends to over-sexualizing a conversation with women when no context has been established between the creep and the girl.

I get creeped out by guys who immediately start talking about sexual topics in response to everything you say, every single time you are within communicating distance of each other while you two barely know each other to drop a “hint”. I had a guy that found a way (albeit poorly) to turn everything I said sexual. And whenever I called him out on it and told him to knock it off, I was being a “prude”.

Also, asking personal (sexual) questions or sharing stories of the same, especially if you’re not even casual acquaintances. I know a lot of women who want to be polite but are totally creeped out by this.

What’s fascinating about this sex-conversation creep is that, when the reverse is true, there’s no better indicator that a woman is into having sex with a you. In an upcoming essay I’ll outline our social progression towards a unilateral control of every aspect of the intersexual process by women, but for now consider that when a woman immediately presumes a sexual context in conversation it’s a solid confirmation that you’ve passed (or are passing) her Hypergamous filter. And that’s the fundamental nature of this kind of creepy guy; he presumes an acknowledged state of sexual-ness without having passed this Hypergamous determination. I’ve said in the past that women don’t decide in the first five minutes of meeting a guy if she will have sex with him, rather, she knows if she wont have sex with him.

Again, Game sometimes reinforces the idea that a guy needs to establish a sexual context with a woman from the opening, but the creep doesn’t understand the artistry and nuance that goes along with applying this. My friend, Alan Roger Currie, is a big proponent of straight up, “I wanna fuck you, are you down?” style of direct Game. While I have seen this effective with women it does promote the idea that a guy can simply presume a sexual context with any woman from the outset. And really, when a creep tries to drop ‘hints’ about sex or attempts to get personal information in a blunderingly obvious (but he thinks stealthy) way he’s not employing a direct Game – he’s beating around the bush in the hopes that he’ll pass her sex test.

When a less-than-proficient, less-than-arousing Beta adopts this direct-but-not-directness he runs the risk of being perceived as creepy, or worse, as a harasser. For a mature, socially savvy man, the obvious retort is “well, no guy should presume anything, there needs to be some kind of rapport’, but remember, we’re talking about guys who in large part Don’t Get ItThis should make for a good conversation this week. Let me know your thoughts on what you think constitutes ‘creepiness’ in the comments.

As I was researching and writing on this topic It occurred to me how deep this dynamic really is, so I’ve decided to split it into a series. In part two we’ll go into a bit more of what makes for creepiness in a Hypergamous context.  I’ll also delve into how creepiness has been developed into a feminine-operative social convention.

300 comments

  1. There’s about 40+ years of information not included.

    60 years old. His life or prior experiences won’t cease if his wife splits. She gets to make her own choices, as does he. It seems very late in life for her to bolt, but women are going to women, and that too is red pill. Compliment, not the focus of.

    Ismit too bad? Depends on how one defines that. Will his kids ” leave ” him? Is the wife planning to divorce rape him? Was he the model husband as defined by the FI?

    It’s never about all that you do. It’s always about the manner you do it.

    60 something year old female absconds from the marriage. Women are fucking fascinating.

  2. “Was he the model husband as defined by the FI?”

    Highly unlikely,even if they (the FI) stopped changing the definition, a post menopausal woman changes the story to fit her conscience. The “model dad” really only happens in the movies.

  3. Shit really if a man was FI model material no woman would want him.

    Creepy; Just got cake & coffee followed by a birthday bang from my 60+ wife. Now she is running around with a bottle of pledge shining the woodwork. I teased her about being all energized from a protein injection, she giggles,I tell her she needs one every morning. She drops the red pill of “not before work it’s like when you get stung by a wasp then all the wasps want to sting you”. I’m all no your a bombshell but if you need to polish some wood come over here. Not FI material but it has worked for 36 1/2 years 28 days 14 minutes and 12 seconds.

  4. OK, the facial expressions are from Emotions Revealed: Recognizing Faces and Feelings to Improve Communication and Emotional Life by Paul Ekman. The book includes many more, larger and better quality photos, but that’s the best set (still incomplete) I could find online. Since we’re on the new comments page, a reminder of the expressions and their description from the book.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/1c/c4/9f1cc47cdad17a8edae9ee0f1af46df7.jpg

    #1
    Slight sadness. If you thought of any related word, such as “blue” or “dejected” or “depressed,” that would also be correct. The expression is shown in the drooping upper eyelids. Tired or sleepy could also be correct, not because it is a related word but because the drooping eyelids she shows can occur in tiredness as well as sadness; when the upper eyelids begin to droop in tiredness, you might, however, see the eyes lose their focus, and an occasional yawn or shaking of the head.

    #2
    Disgust. Again, a related word would be acceptable, but not one in the anger family, such as annoyed or irritated. The clue is in the slight contraction of the muscle that wrinkles the nose and narrows the eyes.

    #3
    Slight enjoyment; any word in that set of words – pleased, OK, feels good – would be correct. Compare the lips in this picture with the relaxed lips in photo 1.

    #4
    Highly controlled or very slight anger (annoyance) – or determination. You can’t be certain when the only clue is a slight pressing and narrowing of the lips. You don’t want to miss this clue, even though it is ambiguous, because if you spotted it in real life, you probably would be able to figure out whether it is an anger sign or determination based on when it was shown or what was being said by you or that person. This can be one of the earliest signs of anger, alerting you before matters get irreversible; sometimes this sign occurs before the other person recognizes that he or she is becoming angry.

    #5
    Slight or highly controlled fear. The most common mistake is to interpret this as a sign of disgust. The clue to fear is the slightly stretched lips. Sometimes when a person is describing or thinking about a time when he or she was afraid, but not actually feeling it in the moment, the person will show this subtle fear expression.

    #6
    A masked expression of anger. The person looks happy because of her smiling lips, but the eyebrows don’t fit an enjoyable emotion. This could either be an attempt to mask anger (the emotion shown in the eyebrows) with a happy smile, a blend of anger and enjoyment, or amusement about being perplexed or confounded.

    #7
    Fear or surprise – or just rapt attention. It’s hard to be certain when the clue is limited to just the raised upper eyelids. If it is fear or surprise, it would be either slightly felt or highly controlled stronger feelings.

    #8
    Contempt, smug, or disdainful. The tightening of one lip corner signals this set of related emotions.

    #9
    Worry, apprehension, or controlled fear. This configuration in the eyebrows is one of the most reliable signs of these feelings.

    Don’t worry about how many you missed. Most people who look at these photographs briefly do not get more than five correct. Even when people get to look longer, most don’t get more than ten correct. They are hard – because they are partial, slight, and sometimes involve two emotions merging into a blend. It should get easier to recognize these emotions once you have read the explanations of how each emotion is registered in the face and see many more photographs of subtle expressions that will help you become more aware of these facial signals.
    Remember at the opening of this chapter I explained that there were three types of subtle expressions – partial, slight, and micro expressions? It’s important to keep in mind that if you are able to pick up partial or slight emotional expressions like the ones in this test, or a micro expression that flashes briefly across the face, you don’t know why the expression has been shown in this manner. There are several possibilities:
    Slight expression
    – Beginning of an emotion
    – Weak emotion
    – Diminished emotion
    – Failed attempt to conceal an emotion
    Partial expression
    – Weak emotion
    – Diminished emotion
    – Failed attempt to conceal an emotion
    Micro expression
    – Deliberate suppression of an emotion
    – Unconscious suppression of an emotion
    With so many possibilities, it might seem that you won’t be able to use this information effectively. But consciously recognizing what emotion a person is feeling is a big step in improving communication. In some cases, based on the context and a partial or slight expression, you may be able to tell that another person’s emotion is just beginning; your reaction during the person’s refractory period, which I discuss in chapter 3, can make a difference. Sometimes, in fact, you may know how a person is feeling before he or she knows, especially if the signal is a micro expression that resulted from suppression. You may also be able to recognize that there is a chance a person is trying to diminish or conceal her expressions, and that may influence your response to what he or she is saying or doing.

    The next question is how to lead the interaction forward… lol…

    Take the sneer face… It could be negative or positive, an IOD (with a DHV) but also a shit test. A creep would get one (likely with a ‘disgust’ expression, like in the athletes video @3:23, see my comment from November 11, 2017 at 1:07 pm) and a high self esteem chick would give you one too. I’m with Sentient on this one. Keep going, probe further and calibrate accordingly… Also, is this an involuntary micro expression, actual state, an act…

  5. @stuffinbox
    “Without reading body language or hearing speech inflections. She is basically acting and giving of a phony asshole vibe in every pic. This may be what she is trying to get across with her photo test.”

    This is the problem with this kind of study. You either ask someone to ‘act’ the emotion or you try to record them without them knowing what you’re after (but then you somehow need to make them feel the emotion or wait for it to occur). PUA infields will have targets’ faces blurred out for obvious reasons, so this is always the missing bit of their interactions. You could watch actors, but it’s not guaranteed you won’t be misled by wrongly acted expressions. Micro expressions are involuntary yet difficult to spot. Either way, it’s always a cluster of cues and not just this part of the face or that shrug on their own.

    Practice, practice, practice. Someone should say that you learn how to be social by being social… lol…

    Also, you could probe by leading the interaction in a certain way and look for cues. Just like in Mystery Method with hoops and compliance tests. But also with ‘relating to emotional states’ stories and questions like in this example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqbs4ZzWsGI

    Who are the leaders in clips #4 (6:39), #8 (9:00) and #9 (13:28)?

  6. @Sentient
    ”Spot the moment of her discernment.”

    1:09

    She’s annoyed by his repeated statement about mp3s, but that’s not the tipping point yet (a player could use similar patronizing negs and it would work well).

    It’s when he fails the Secret Society aka “do you just get it” shit test. She decides to drop the bomb and cut the crap after hearing “what do you do” question for the n-th time.

  7. @Blax – re “practicing subcomms” – this is a misinterpretation of what PUA teaches.

    You can’t practice subcomms as such (well you can a little bit – as Sentient says there’s an element of fake it till you make it and it becomes internalized and authentic – so you fix the most obvious body language mistakes and stuff like that, but mostly that’s not what’s happening in PUA teaching).

    For the most part, you practice *actions*, and you get more and comfortable with doing those actions and you build more and more reference experiences of those actions succeeding, as you do that, your *authentic* confidence and subcomms relating to that aspect will go sky high.

    There are many examples, but for eg, learning to go in for the kiss. You start off doing it awkwardly and badly (“creepily” – lol). But you keep trying it with more and more girls and soon you’re getting more and more makeouts and fewer rejections, and your confidence and calibration and subcomms automatically improve, which means your results improve and there’s a virtuous circle. But you have to start with the awkward rejections and keep taking action and practicing to break into that virtuous circle. That’s not practicing subcomms- that’s practicing the actions which will lead to good subcomms when you improve at the action.

  8. “You either ask someone to ‘act’ the emotion or you try to record them without them knowing what you’re after (but then you somehow need to make them feel the emotion”

    “You could watch actors, but it’s not guaranteed you won’t be misled by wrongly acted expressions.”

    This is a large part of the lie in the entertainment industry. Even if the actor is feeling the emotion, The director in preparing for a production or final cut will work on each actor changing motion,adding emphasis, adjusting volume and clarity until he is satisfied. Directors project as much as actors their own feelings into the product.

    It is funny her scared face I mistook as attraction or interest,when she is interested in running away.

  9. Clip 4,He thinks he’s the leader,she owns his ass.

    Clip 8,He was always the leader till he retired then moved into her frame.

    Clip 9, The shorter of the two indicated males leads the leader being the taller

  10. @IRL

    Vanessa Van Edwards has a chapter all on reading microexpressions and the right way on how to respond to them in her book Captivate. Here’s her YouTube channel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V_TftAt6cE

    picked it up after the top comment in this thread (his comment is unfortunately now deleted) as the top pick for learning people skills and Body Language reading:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PickUpTorrents/comments/6zbvcf/question_outside_of_pickup_who_is_legit_in_their/

  11. ‘#6
    A masked expression of anger. The person looks happy because of her smiling lips, but the eyebrows don’t fit an enjoyable emotion.’

    That’s always the look they have before they spout out their ‘sassy, sarcastic’ remark.

    #2 is the same face Jennifer Grey did to Charlie Sheen initially in Ferris Bueller before he told her off.

  12. Culum
    “There are many examples, but for eg, learning to go in for the kiss. You start off doing it awkwardly and badly (“creepily” – lol). But you keep trying it with more and more girls and soon you’re getting more and more makeouts and fewer rejections, and your confidence and calibration and subcomms automatically improve, which means your results improve and there’s a virtuous circle. But you have to start with the awkward rejections and keep taking action and practicing to break into that virtuous circle. That’s not practicing subcomms- that’s practicing the actions which will lead to good subcomms when you improve at the action.”
    Just went out and found a girl from Portugal we may or may be getting lunch sometime this week before she’s to go back to Portugal…
    Rejection is the burden of performance and the world interacting with one another that help put action into reality.

  13. @j
    Oh yeah, I know about her. She’s one of those entrepreneurs building income streams on a watered down purple pill + body language lessons based on Ekman’s studies (read the original book, there’s a pdf online if you google the title I quoted above; her chapter is only 20 pages or so).

    Her lessons on IODs for women:
    https://youtu.be/6Q1NO3Qvcfs

    IOIs:
    https://youtu.be/lV2RTqrJ354

    2:20 … hmm… this would explain why Blaximus plucks his eyebrows… 😉 lol…

    BTW guess what else was based on Ekman’s work…
    http://www.paulekman.com/lie-to-me/

  14. From wiki:

    Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral investigator and national best-selling author of Captivate: Use Science to Succeed with People (2017)[1]. She is also a corporate speaker and body language trainer specializing in science-based people skills.[2][3][4] She runs Science of People, a human behavior research lab in Portland, Oregon where she studies charisma, influence and power body language[5][6][7]
    […]
    Van Edwards is lead investigator at her human behavior research lab, the Science of People[10]. She conducts original research experiments on popular pyschology and communication[11].

    Boys from RSD should learn from her:

    “Tyler and Papa are behavioral investigators and international best-selling authors. They are also speakers and body language trainers specializing in science-based people skills. They run Real Social Dynamics, a human behavior research lab, where they study charisma, influence and power body language.
    Tyler is lead investigator at their human behavior research lab, RSD. He conducts original research experiments on popular pyschology and communication.”

    There you go…

  15. “HB5. would bang.”

    Maybe after she did the hair flipping,neck exposing head tilt five or six times,only after coming out of a two week tour in the forest,after three beers.

  16. “They’re all about to sneeze” … A friend told me long ago in all seriousness that a good sneeze is the closest thing to orgasm

  17. Mr. Tomassi,

    Your analysis and declarations of “Alpha” and “Beta” males in the context of current witch hunts is superficial and arbitrary.

    I am referring to your commentary on current sexual assault witch hunts in Hollywood and elsewhere. You state that Alpha males will never be falsely accused of sexual assault. Only beta males will be falsely accused. George Takei and Weinstein were beta males and hence were accused. Assuming for a moment all of their sex was mutually consensual.

    How did you come to this conclusion? Why would Alpha males be not falsely accused of sex assault? You give anecdotal evidence of Gene Simmons and his alpha maleness without providing robust statistically significant evidence for your assertion. In the process, you are diminishing the suffering of falsely accused men. You state that just because he was not charged, it is because he was Alpha. What ridiculousness. You seem to be unaware of the sinister depths of what forces are at work to destroy masculinity and male sexuality.

    Your assertions boil down to this: Oh we are alpha males, women will never accuse us of sex assault. The men who got falsely accused, they must be beta in the bed. By this assertion, you have already put the vagina on a pedestal by believing the female complainants. As if women take into consideration whether sexual partner was alpha or beta when they make up their minds to falsely accuse for primary or secondary gains. There are published scientific studies which have looked at motives for false rape accusations. I can provide a reference if you are inclined to investigate and correct your opinions with more solid evidence.

  18. In 2017, as you stated, “simply approaching a woman to ask her out or get a number is literally becoming a criminal act” Where are you going to say DTF in modern America without putting your job or financial security at risk? College campus? Nope. Work? Nope. Club maybe, because you could easily end up in a headlock being escorted out for ‘harassing’ women. Now, I am speaking for non-select dudes, not alpha/sigmas.

    The term “creep” can really lead in a bunch of different directions discussion wise, but I think a really big one is “sexual zones” vs “non-sexual zones”. Increasingly, there are all sorts of places where the default presumption is that women should be “free from” male advances. Work, school, etc. In these zones, the margin for error is very small. Unless you are an objectively visually attractive man with super tight game, the odds of you being perceived as a “creep” are much, much higher. In sexual zones, such as the Friday night bar, your margin for error is higher. The default presumption is men are there to meet women. You still need to have the right social vibe and not come across as a weirdo but you have a little more room to play with.

  19. How did you come to this conclusion? Why would Alpha males be not falsely accused of sex assault? You give anecdotal evidence of Gene Simmons and his alpha maleness without providing robust statistically significant evidence for your assertion.

    LOL, GTFO with that “robust statistical significant evidence” nonsense

  20. I do think there is a sort of female equivalent “creep”, perhaps not exactly but comparable. I’ve had some instances where really fat, ugly girls have gotten really overtly sexual in public with me, grabbing my arms or ass or something, and frankly it “creeped” me out a bit. There was a friend of my sister who sort of became a pseudo-friend of mine in that we hung out in the same crowd but she would often start drinking and then get really touchy-feely, she was probably about 50-75 pounds overweight, and yeah it felt “creepy”, more in the sense that I didn’t want other women observing and thinking I was with this girl.

  21. In sexual zones, such as the Friday night bar, your margin for error is higher.

    Although if you google a phrase such as “sexual harassment bars” or “unwanted advances bars” you’ll see a lot of hits. These generally refer to things such as crotch grabbing, but I wonder if women will try to bring the overbroad definition of “street harassment” into bars and nightclubs?

  22. Great post! Nice to take the view from women and put it on us men for a while. I’ll bet we can learn a lot about women, but we can learn a lot about male behavior and dos and don’ts as well from reading these kind of posts.

  23. Ulysses
    BY ALFRED, LORD TENNYSON
    It little profits that an idle king,
    By this still hearth, among these barren crags,
    Match’d with an aged wife, I mete and dole
    Unequal laws unto a savage race,
    That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me.
    I cannot rest from travel: I will drink
    Life to the lees: All times I have enjoy’d
    Greatly, have suffer’d greatly, both with those
    That loved me, and alone, on shore, and when
    Thro’ scudding drifts the rainy Hyades
    Vext the dim sea: I am become a name;
    For always roaming with a hungry heart
    Much have I seen and known; cities of men
    And manners, climates, councils, governments,
    Myself not least, but honour’d of them all;
    And drunk delight of battle with my peers,
    Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.
    I am a part of all that I have met;
    Yet all experience is an arch wherethro’
    Gleams that untravell’d world whose margin fades
    For ever and forever when I move.
    How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
    To rust unburnish’d, not to shine in use!
    As tho’ to breathe were life! Life piled on life
    Were all too little, and of one to me
    Little remains: but every hour is saved
    From that eternal silence, something more,
    A bringer of new things; and vile it were
    For some three suns to store and hoard myself,
    And this gray spirit yearning in desire
    To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
    Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojf18wT_Xtk

    This is my son, mine own Telemachus,
    To whom I leave the sceptre and the isle,—
    Well-loved of me, discerning to fulfil
    This labour, by slow prudence to make mild
    A rugged people, and thro’ soft degrees
    Subdue them to the useful and the good.
    Most blameless is he, centred in the sphere
    Of common duties, decent not to fail
    In offices of tenderness, and pay
    Meet adoration to my household gods,
    When I am gone. He works his work, I mine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4rTY6pi-1Y

    There lies the port; the vessel puffs her sail:
    There gloom the dark, broad seas. My mariners,
    Souls that have toil’d, and wrought, and thought with me—
    That ever with a frolic welcome took
    The thunder and the sunshine, and opposed
    Free hearts, free foreheads—you and I are old;
    Old age hath yet his honour and his toil;
    Death closes all: but something ere the end,
    Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
    Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
    The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks:
    The long day wanes: the slow moon climbs: the deep
    Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,
    ‘T is not too late to seek a newer world.
    Push off, and sitting well in order smite
    The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
    To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
    Of all the western stars, until I die.
    It may be that the gulfs will wash us down:
    It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
    And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
    Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and tho’
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

  24. Creepiness and Emotions

    1-9 – fear, disgust, contempt, anger, enjoyment, sadness… etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4sg6dQQqOs

    The Legend of Bobby Peru… Calibration? Cat-O-Nese translation?

    “means sumptin don’t it? means sumptin to me”

    Alpha’s have very, very different reference experiences than Betas…

  25. @ skepticalman

    You are totally missing the point Wrt ” alpha and beta ” men and sexual harassment and creepiness.

    It’s about the woman’s perception and biological triggers. Pedestalzation is beta behavior. Is it possible that you don’t fully understand how and why the ” alpha ” designator is used in context?

    Of course there are some women that would accuse any man of harassment for some form of attention or financial gain. But generally speaking regarding the wider population and the ” common ” man, there are definitely certain behaviors that will put a man at much more risk of an accusation or a negative perception.

    A lot of ” double blind, peer reviewed ” ( lol) research has already been done demonstrating how male behavior patterns affect females. Apply the results across the board and males that display consistently display certain patterns of behavior drastically reduce the odds of being seen as harassers or abusive and creepy.

  26. IRL

    “Spot the moment of her discernment.”

    Earl hit it. 1:33… Up until then, when he took the beta bait and proved he was a beta (his salacious smile), his autism was working for him to a surprising degree… Direct open, eye contact, handshake, breaking rapport, she qualifying, etc… Shit tests him with “i’m a stripper” he hits her with something ambiguous and judgmental… all OK to here… Not great but keeping her hamster on the fence “who is this guy?”…

    When he communicates his thirst with his silly “sex is naughty” grin… she makes her decision, sorts him. Beta bucket.

  27. Instead of grinning like an idiot with a hard micropeen…

    Her: “I’m a stripper!”
    Him: “Oh… FML… seems every girl I meet these days is on the pole… [lean back, eye contact] So what’s your stripper name? Persephone? Claudette? Gladys? [because it is always something stupid…like Summer or Autumn or Misty, Crystal etc… so this is a neg, and you can then bust on her stupid stripper name some more]”

  28. Given a lot of thought about this subject since the OP dropped.

    Candidly speaking, according to how these things are currently being defined by the FI, I am most certainly –

    A) abusive, physically and somewhat emotionally.

    B) display harassing behaviors.

    C) display ” creepy ” behaviors by the physical touching of women I do not know in public situations and at times being overtly sexual in speech.

    There have been many occasions, mostly in the past, where initial conversation with a woman consisted of ” hello, we should fuck sometimes “. Many more times the overt sexual works it’s way into a conversation at a later point.

    If many of my conversations with women could somehow be documented on paper, I’m sure I’d qualify form immediate incarceration and possibly execution, lol.

    In the past week I’ve slapped my wife’s ass hard enough that my handprint was still visible the next day. Ive pulled her hair firmly, in and out of bed. I’ve verbally abused her by telling her to ” do me a favor honey, and shut the fuck up “. I’ve cut off her air supply via various methods, lol. I’ve thrown her onto various forms of furniture. I’ve ignored ” no ” and ” don’t ” and ” stop ” and ” don’t be so rough ” and ” leave me alone!!”.

    And I love and like my wife very much – which is what drives my behavior towards her for the most part. And it will continue as long as I’m still breathing and still have the strength to manhandle her and throw her over my shoulder.

    But, she lifts, so I gotta stay on my toes.

    Part of my nature has been redefined in popular culture. This makes me sad ( lol ) but it would be easier for me to go all Bruce Jenner than it would be to stop being who I am and doing what I’d like.

    I hope I can have a laptop and WiFi in prison…..

    You know what’s so funny about the hypocrisy of feminism? Women say they want ” equal treatment ” with men. All of my male life, including last week, has involved abusive language, unwanted sexual comments, physical abuse and full on harassment. And that was from my dear, lifelong male friends and family. And I wouldn’t want it any other way.

    Fuck the attempts to bubblewrap society.

    Calibration and congruence. Using these you can get more of whatever it is that you want Wrt women, and quite possibly stay out of confinement. But this message can be dangerous advice in this climate, and that’s really tragic.

    And women will actually wind up losing so much of male attention in the end,, with the exception of online thirst. Pro tip: buy stock in raw materials used in dildo manufacturing.

    For the guys who remain strong enough of will that they continue to develop a higher level of masculinity and consistent self improvement, you will be walking in a pussy wonderland ( holidays coming up…).

    Still, don’t jerk off into plants.

  29. @skepticalman: ” . . . robust statistically significant evidence . . .”

    You are aware that the function of robust, statistically significant evidence is to arrive at a “definite maybe,” aren’t you?

    How do you manage to cross the street alive? You have nothing but anecdotal evidence as to the safe course of action, or, for that matter, that you are even in jeopardy. How do you suppose a fox, with no access to quantification, never mind complex mathematical operations, manages it?

    Am I in a Foghorn Leghorn cartoon?

    “In the process, you are diminishing the suffering of falsely accused men.”

    Did a sore spot get poked?

  30. Fred Flange – up all night
    Back to the main topic, can you approach a gal and not be arrested?

    Sure. Just don’t be creepy about it…

  31. Primo: Can you approach a gal and not be arrested?

    Secundus: Sure. Just don’t be creepy about it…

  32. One of these things is not like the other:

    The Australian Academy has revoked an award to Harvey Weinstein that it intended to give the now scandal hit producer

    Is Kevin Spacey’s Career Over? Christopher Plummer Replaces Actor as J. Paul Getty

    Louis CK’s film release scrapped amid sex allegations

    Roy Moore Up 10 Points in Emerson College Poll Conducted After Washington Post Story Broke

  33. I’m not a fan of Roy Moore for numerous reasons, and I have no fucks to give about his political career. Having stated that, he has an indisputable point when he asks ” why did these people wait 40 years ( to come out with the allegations )?”.

    He’s getting some support because he refuses to capitulate and automatically beg forgiveness for something he’s alleged to have done 4 decades ago. I cosign this attitude.

    I can’t imagine what it would be like if the media machine were to come after me for some of the truly dumb shit I’ve done in my teens. They find out about it and become ‘ outraged ‘ after everyone involved has moved on, and they line up men from everywhere to openly condemn you live on camera.

    It seems that the worse thing one could do is offer a mea culpa apology. When the private becomes glaringly public, you’re pretty fucked either way.

  34. Perception is reality regardless of facts.If female sees you as creepy you will remain creepy until her perception of you changes. I think creepiness is not just anti hypergamy but also anti comfort. Creepy is anti AF or BB.creepiness is crossing boundaries that are set in a females mind. The boundaries could be touching physically or verbal Or even fashion.

  35. I can’t imagine what it would be like if the media machine were to come after me for some of the truly dumb shit I’ve done in my teens.

    especially not what you did in texas with that 15 yo…

  36. “It seems that the worse thing one could do is offer a mea culpa apology.”

    Apology is confession. Confession is followed by conviction and sentencing.

  37. Keith
    Perception is reality regardless of facts.If female sees you as creepy you will remain creepy until her perception of you changes.

    Ok. So what factors influence her perception of you? Put it another way, what affects her feelze?

  38. @ ASD

    Lol.

    Oddly enough, I’ve practically exclusively targeted ‘ older ‘ girls when I was in my youth. As a freshmen in high school I went after the junior and senior class. Freshman and sophmore college chicks that lived in dorms. The exceptions were the female athletes, the tennis and track chicks specifically. Softball chicks were kinda big, lol.

    I’ve had only one young virgin in my life ( and even she was a year older that I was ) and I was a virgin at the time myself. It wasn’t the greatest initial sex. To this day I still have the faint remnants of the scars her nails gave me on my ribcage. She dug in damn near to the bone.

    Hell, I guess even that would qualify under the ‘ new rules ‘ as some kind of assault today, even though she literally ‘ asked for it ‘.

    I’ll never be able to run for public office…. 😀😊

  39. Blaximus
    I can’t imagine what it would be like if the media machine were to come after me for some of the truly dumb shit I’ve done in my teens.

    Thanks to Al Gore’s interwebs today’s teens dumbassery is preserved for a long, long time. Although a lot of them don’t get that. College students are amazed to find out their social media pix of foam cannon parties will be of interest to MegaCorp recruiters a couple of years down the road, too.

    Another aspect of the social world being online: a girl herd can brand a man “creepy” and make it stick real hard. It can be done in a couple of days, or even an afternoon.

  40. Anonymous Reader her personal preference will determine her feeling. Ok say your out hunting kill a decent buck deer you want to show it off too your friends. So off to the bar you go you show ip in camo with mud on your boots and little blood on pants. Everyone else in the bar is dressed normally. Your talking and having a good time with your friends . Subconsciously every woman in the bar knows your peacocking a little and they don’t mind you getting some attention. Then theirs that one chick at the bar who is creeped out. Your a animal killer and she is with peta or works for the local zoo or whatever. She is thinks your a creep nothing you can do is gonna change her feels. It’s not a shit test its organic. Her pre conceived world view is not gonna change. Your a creepy guy any change you try to make to appease her is seen as weakness. So then you become creepy and weak. And then targeting of you becomes a option.

  41. “I don’t want excitement. I want satisfaction.”

    So do I. Sadly women don’t.

    Great article Rollo as usual. A “creep” these days is simply a guy that women don’t find attractive and that keeps trying to flirt with them.

  42. Then there’s that one chick at the bar who is creeped out. Your a animal killer and she is with peta or works for the local zoo or whatever. She is thinks your a creep nothing you can do is gonna change her feels. It’s not a shit test its organic. Her pre conceived world view is not gonna change. Your a creepy guy any change you try to make to appease her is seen as weakness. So then you become creepy and weak. And then targeting of you becomes a option.

    YGFBSM!

    That’s the most gosh darned stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while. Almost like masturbation into a potted plant in front of some one girl and thinking it’s a DHV.

    And you spelled there’s incorrectly.

  43. This is literally what I was posting about a couple of weeks ago.

    There is no guaranteed safe path but in general the men who hold the line and refuse to apologise against this kind of allegation and possibly deny them (whether they are true is a different issue) consistently do better. Trump is the poster boy tor this approach (there was literally a NYT story in the last few weeks where the headline was “11 women have accused Trump of sexual assault – why does no one care?”

    Roy Moore now doing better than expected with the same approach.

    All the other guys. All the ones who apologised and got defensive have been defenestrated.

  44. Orso, that is the classic “Alpha Widow” situation. It is as you note her BetaBux man that is complaining, and his problem is that he’s not alpha enough for her. In addition to his own misery, if they generate a child it’s very likely she’ll frivorce him when the child is 3 to 5 years old.

    Which will do a number on the child. Who will then grow up to be either another frustrated Beta man or another BPD woman.

    Nothing wrong per se with a man marrying a woman with a high N, as long as he knows what it will take to be “alpha enough” for her long before putting a ring on it.

  45. I’m just saying a creep is threat. She thinks your a danger to her and the sister hood. It’s not a war brides thing or a DHV thing. It’s not a friend zone thing. It’s a creepy threat. Hell its worse than stranger danger. Threats will be removed, marginalized , obfuscated. It will be destroyed. The female will gladly sacrifice bata friend zone guys to you and him fight it out situations. She will rip apart social clubs , tribes , clans & brotherhoods to remove a creepy threat. You can know 200 females across the socioeconomic spectrum and somewhere one of them thinks your a creep. This is the danger the one you have to avoid or maybe handle differently

  46. ” You can know 200 females across the socioeconomic spectrum and somewhere one of them thinks your a creep.”

    … I’m sure more than 0ne of them think I’m some kind of creep, lol. I’m a huge fan of Majority Rule myself.

  47. Keith
    I’m just saying a creep is threat. She thinks your a danger to her and the sister hood. It’s not a war brides thing or a DHV thing

    What you are saying is that you do not understand women, and therefore you fear them.
    You aren’t thinking, you are reacting emotionally. Probably you are stuck in equalism / blank slateism so you are looking at women as “men with boobs”.

    Stop emoting. Stop fearing. Calm down. Start thinking. Begin with these two basic aphorisms:

    “Cats are not dogs” – Sentient
    “They are all girls” – Blaximus.

    Breath.

  48. Keith
    You can know 200 females across the socioeconomic spectrum and somewhere one of them thinks your a creep.

    Assume this to be true. What to do about it?

    A. Staunch self-defense, of the “I’m not a creep! Not me!” type, common among Beta men.

    B. Staunch defense by other girls of the “No way! Keith isn’t a creeper, he’s cool! What’s wrong with you, girl?” type. Social proof at work. An Alpha’s girl-posse will do this.

    Of the two options, which is more likely to work?

    There’s also this:
    C. ZFG of the “Meh, she’s just jealous of all the girls lucky enough to be with me” type, a different sort of Alpha mode.

    Choose an option. Men who go option A don’t find it very useful, though.

  49. Mr. Tomassi,

    Your analysis and declarations of “Alpha” and “Beta” males in the context of current witch hunts is superficial and arbitrary.

    You are either a lazy hater who knows better, or you’re a newcomer to this blog because if you were at all familiar with my work you’d already know that there are over 6 years of essays and 3 books I’ve written that VERY specifically define what my classifications of Alpha and Beta entail. Take the time to educate yourself before you decide to attack me, your strawman arguments will suffer if you don’t.

    I am referring to your commentary on current sexual assault witch hunts in Hollywood and elsewhere. You state that Alpha males will never be falsely accused of sexual assault. Only beta males will be falsely accused. George Takei and Weinstein were beta males and hence were accused. Assuming for a moment all of their sex was mutually consensual.

    Will you please copy and paste where I have EVER typed out “Alpha males will never be falsely accused of sexual assault. Only beta males will be falsely accused”? Strawman arguments are are unbecoming of a skepticalman

    How did you come to this conclusion? Why would Alpha males be not falsely accused of sex assault? You give anecdotal evidence of Gene Simmons and his alpha maleness without providing robust statistically significant evidence for your assertion.

    I did not come to this conclusion I merely asked this question on Twitter (bonus points: read the responses)

    https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/929413535221784576

    I asked this on Twitter because it was part of a Q&A I did last Friday with Richard Cooper. He asked why it was that a guy like Gene Simmons or Mick Jagger, who’ve nailed far more women and have far more status and affluence than Harvey Weinstein or Richard Dreyfus, are not being accused of sexual assault, harassment or rape?

    It’s my belief that there is a quantifiable difference in women’s assessment of these men’s SMV and these men’s Alpha or Beta perception, but in no way did I state that either Alpha nor Beta men would or would not be accused of sexual assault.

    In the process, you are diminishing the suffering of falsely accused men. You state that just because he was not charged, it is because he was Alpha. What ridiculousness.

    Again, copy & paste any quote where I’ve ever stated this. You can’t. If anything I argued that Gene could still be accused:

    https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/929418018706276352

    The rest of your comment is founded in ignorance and strawman arguments that I’ve disproven here so don’t deserve a rebuttal.

  50. I’m trying to come up with some real life examples of my being called a ” creep ” in the past, and what I was doing/thinking when the name was called in my direction, and I just remembered something that I gotta share with y’all because it’s funny and kind of illustrative.

    I had a fuck-buddy for about 12 months or so at one time. Cute chick, quiet and reserved for the most part, highly submissive.

    She snapped at me one day because I walked past her as she was sitting at my kitchen table and grabbed her head playfully and pushed her face into my crotch. The whole thing took about a second or maybe less. It was a joking type thing, but she got very indignant and upset and called me a creep and what I had done ” disrespectful “.

    Mind you, we were alone in my apartment at the time, and 2) the night before she had her head buried in my crotch with my balls in her mouth, and she had tried for quite a while to fit both nuts in her mouth, to the point where I had to physically stop her as it was starting to get painful.

    She went on and on about ” respect ” and whatever. I never replied to her at all. After about 5 minutes of her going off, she said ” Well??? Are you going to say anything??” and I replied ” Yeah, you can leave now because obviously you’re very upset “. As Sentient would say, I had a shit eating grin on my face.

    She left in a huff.

    She proceeded to call all night long and leave messages that we should talk so we could come to an understanding. I never responded to her.

    A couple of days later, she showed up at my front door pissed. She tried to barge into my home and I stopped her, telling her ” If you come here to bitch and complain, it’s going to be awkward and uncomfortable when I push your face down into my dick for real…”. She promised not to complain, she just wanted to make her point. She sat on the couch and started talking, and halfway through I started undressing her, then she started undressing herself.

    She never did make her point, or I didn’t notice.

  51. @ rugby11

    “….“creep” is a response to women coming too close to their own truth. they want to be stalked, seduced and fucked into submission by the best hunters….”

    And

    “…how can anyone get bored in a world with so many variables??”

    How?

    Well rugby11…..

    When it becomes illegal to hunt, when the real hunters can no longer hunt because the quarry makes all the hunting rules, that’s how.

    Consider these…

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/97/cc/04/97cc04fc0b88adcf95089957f2bd90ac.jpg

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/lady-liberty-greg-joens.jpg

    “LADY Justice” and “LADY Liberty”…

    What relevance do real justice and real liberty have to gender? If none, then why are these effigies female? Why wouldn’t they be male? If they, or one of them, COULD have been male, then why are neither? By just accidental random pure coincidence? I think not, because I am not a fool. Consider real conditions and the direction of “culture” and “progress”.

    If gender doesn’t matter, concerning how the orchestrators expect us to perceive liberty and justice, then why would either gender be included or excluded in these effigies? What the fuck does gender have to do with either justice or liberty, or God forbid BOTH?! What motif, what metaphor do these effigies communicate to us by their conspicuous presentation? What automatic default paradigm are they intended to conscript in the minds of all? Aren’t liberty and justice nonsexual after all? If so, why would a truly impartial “judge” even risk suggesting they are by creating (and virtually deifying) these feminine effigies, effectively establishing that gender has something (everything) to do with both?

    And… why is “LADY Justice” blindfolded? Because, as you say, SHE must remain blind to gender, race, religion, ethnic background, age, sexual “orientation”, etc. What will be added next? To how many caveats must “”LADY justice” succumb in order to be considered pure? LADY justice’s vision is so biased or blurred that it will corrupt her ability to make impartial judgements, so she must blindfold herself. Why should we trust that her sense of balance is any less biased or distorted than her vision? Didn’t we have to open our eyes to see the truth of what the red pill reveals to us?

    Our forefathers put the whore in charge, of not only our civilization, but also how we define ourselves to ourselves. This fact is self evidently and blatantly manifested by how the great majority of “men” now frustratingly and confusedly discuss their enslavement.

    Here is a damned lie, quite possibly the most awful damned lie ever written: “All men are created equal”. “We hold these truths to be self evident….” What perverse form of “truth” is this?It is a blatant absolute self-evident fact that we aren’t equal! How can we acknowledge, respect and negotiate our differences, our inequalities, in all aspects, when we are conned into arguing and fighting over this lie?

  52. Created equal. Check out a few dozen autopsies.

    It’s what one does after he’s ” created ” that counts and possible sets one man apart and above some others.

    But, yeah, all me created equal sounds about right.

  53. And for all the newbs out there, a protip: The statue of liberty is just that – A Statue – given to America by the French people, designed by the dude that designed the Eiffel tower. It was dedicated in 1886 ( our forefathers had no clue…).

    There’s a smaller scale version still in France as well.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Paris-eiffel-liberty.JPG/800px-Paris-eiffel-liberty.JPG

    Now, you can be upset and pissed and angry if that’s your preference, or you can gain knowledge and understanding and leave all of that useless anger somewhere else, and go forth in your life knowing what’s real and what’s false.

    The choice is yours.

    Lol.

  54. @Not Born This Morning: Very succinct paragraphs. In thinking about it, I’d assumed the figures were feminine as that is the sex that bears after being quickened by a male.

    It’s a good set of images to ponder on.

  55. ” . . . designed by the dude that designed the Eiffel tower.”

    Built by. Designed by the guy who designed the statue of Lafayette in Union Square, also a gift from the French. They liked to remind us that we owed them our revolutionary victory. The Statue of Liberty faces France.

  56. @Sentient
    ”[…]his autism was working for him to a surprising degree… ”

    Oh shit, yes. I mistook the change in his expression at 1:09 for a sound of Beta mind brakes (obviously the scene was written to have him fail the shit test). I just re-watched that part and you’re right, the whole thing is going to collapse after her statement, but he somehow wings it for a few more seconds… lol… The silly grin starts showing only later. Nice one.

    “Alpha’s have very, very different reference experiences than Betas…”

    Flip enough attraction switches, do it fast and calibration seems spergy. Bobby Peru? Heading towards Dark Triad City. A thin line and an Alpha/Beta test of your internals and game. Consult both Blaximus the Natural and Mystery the Consistent before trying it within the first minute of your new interaction… We know what may happen when you go from Attraction (or not even that) to Seduction with no Comfort.

    Fair point though. The grand scheme of things, broader perspective. She feels what you feel. Your frame. Your mental point of origin. Your value.

    I had a face time call with my wife who was at a coffee place. I was making fun of her, ended up holding the camera at my crotch and telling her to send kisses. She said I should behave, she wasn’t alone, and rotated the phone to include an older female coworker sitting next to her. The woman I had never seen before waved hello. I smiled, lifted my t-shirt and showed them my nipple (full screen)… I don’t know what their expressions were… lol… They burst into laughter and the coworker said “you have fun with him”… Yes she has.
    Oh wait, was this creepy?!
    Lol…

    http://cdn3-www.afterellen.com/assets/uploads/2015/04/whatwomenwant.gif

  57. IRL

    “The grand scheme of things, broader perspective. ”

    Indeed. That’s why I like this stuff… Peeling back eons of obfuscation to the raw biology. Either evopsych/bio is right ot it’s not.

    On the Plains of Ur, Krull the Warrior King had his own form of consistency… Channelled via Bobby Peru a few millennia later. But both work right? I see War Brides has already been cited. Worth reading over and over though.

    Biology. Can’t escape it in the long run.

    When in doubt push more Alpha.

    Look at your FR (i lolled)… You sexually harassed a wife’s co worker and yet nothing will happen… You kissed your wife’s fri3nd or sister right? And held frame… And built attraction.

    Trump grabs pussies Bobby Peru style and is President…

    Eithet evobio/ psych is right or not. If it is right, you have a road map. The question for men of 2017 is will they have the balls to start to follow it.

  58. “Still, don’t jerk off into plants.”

    unless you want to. and if that plant is located in a nice profitable restaurant in which you happen to be a primary investor…. all the better.

    I’ve always liked to make a mess. to be able to pull out and hit a girl in the face from 2+ feet away…. makes a man feel good

    I make messes outside too. why would my wife suck a load out of me, watch me shoot it on a rock and then take a picture of it?

    because I’m a fucking animal. pissing and shitting and cumming where I please. like louis says, “mr half wolf half bear…. please don’t do what you’re going to do.”

    lol. she wants to be eaten by the big bad wolf. every emotional storm she moves through is designed to ensure that she wanders into the woods alone seemingly in search of her grandma or some other equally ridiculous bs…. lol.

    “it just happened. I didn’t think the wolf would be out in the woods, where he lives and eats. I just wanted to see granny, I swear”

    she wants you to grab her head during the bj and fuck her throat like it’s her pussy. she should have tears. when you fucking blast down her throat it’s a sensation she will not forget. then you pull out and she gags and coughs and wipes her tears. and people have the nerve to say romance is dead….

    that shit that parker said about not knowing what the screens would do to young brains in the process of getting wired up makes me think about guys like Blax…

    early success gets wired into naturals brains. crushing underage ass helps to make guys what they are and what they will settle into in their heads. all they know is that girls want it. bad. the law means nothing.

    so much better for a dad/uncle/role model to help his boy get the dick wet early than to try and feed him the red pill after he’s already been wired up as a reject

    you can teach a Blaximus to be an Owen. but you can’t go back in time and rewire an Owen to be a Blaximus. you can attack it on the surface, but you can’t unplug and rearrange the unproductive connections

    the Owens can make incredible progess and produce incredible results. but wouldn’t a man want the young men coming up in his charge to have all the advantages they can get?

    first Blax. then Owen. Blax + Owen = Blowen!! like, “it’s great. she’s always fucking blowin’ me.”

    guys coming online and going straight to Owen are missing a primary step. like taking graduate level classes before they’ve even enrolled in an undergrad program

    the registrar won’t let you do that for a reason

  59. Anonymous Reader I’m not talking about all woman kind. I’m talking about that 0.01 percent or less than that. just like situation story I told about going to a bar with dead buck. You may got like maybe 10 or 15 females in the bar that cool with it and one thinks it’s creepy. You can’t change your whole game for one. But that one is out to destroy you if she can.

  60. “But that one is out to destroy you if she can.”

    So fucking what? Is your point?

    Are you scared of your own shadow too?

  61. @Sentient

    “Spot the moment of her discernment.”

    At around :49 he starts pushing the mp3 as the right way to promote the band,:54 she gives a sideways glance ,saying we already thought of that. First moment of discernment,to persistent with advice,disrespect.

    Next at 1:10 you don’t look like a stripper,his change in expression goes to judgmental. She calls him on it ,what do strippers look like? and packs her purse at 1:20.

    I can’t believe you missed all that Studly.

  62. With all this talk about reading facial expressions and subcomms, there is an entertaining YouTube channel called Bombards Body Language. I had been watching it for awhile now this past month or two. Great entertainment. She’s a non-academic body and face reader with somewhat of an agenda. She takes latest

    And then Krauser mentioned it in a post:

    https://krauserpua.com/2017/10/18/reading-body-language-of-girls/

    Krauser:

    I’ve found a fantastic YouTube channel that uploads dozens of interviews and speeches from the news and then analyses the speaker for tells of honesty and deception. I’ve watched little else these past few evenings and I’d like to pass on the tip….

    …So, what is there to learn? I’d say Bombard’s Body Language channel is especially good for the following:

    Focus on the tiniest of signals above the large amounts of worthless noise. Body language reading requires you to appreciate just how small the key signals can be, and how you need to be expecting them to see them. Daygame is just like that, such as the flash of attraction that may pass through a girls eyes, letting you conclude “she fancies me”

    The importance of tuning out from the content of the speaking to instead see what the body is telling you.

    The ways of spotting “portrayal”, her word for when a speaker is seeking to fake particular emotions. One such clue is real emotions have many tells appearing together (e.g. a smile is both mouth and eyes) whereas portrayal is usually only one isolated tell at a time.

    Understanding that sometimes you aren’t getting any relevant information about the topic you wish to address, because you haven’t sent out the appropriate probe. This is especially relevant to escalation: you can’t judge feedback signals if you never triggered the feedback by sending the probe

    I’ve linked a few good videos in this post but I thoroughly recommend the channel. It’ll get lots of you verbal-obsessives closer to the real world of game: subcommunication.

    This is a funny as shit example of the Agenda of The Sisterhood:

    https://youtu.be/kRRGbLVIW84

    And if you do any watching of TV series, that series ‘Lie To Me’ was very entertaining. All about reading people via subcomms and facial expressions.

  63. Orso — great post, classic example (both the Q and the A)
    “Talk to her about her feelings, and share yours, without blame.” Who the heck is this advisor? That’s like getting out on the ledge with the crazy person. Talking to women about their feelings immediately grants them the home-field advantage, and the field is made of quicksand,

  64. Stuff

    I don’t think so.

    Look at the frame. He breaks rapport during this and she then qualifies in what she is doing.

    Onnthe judgmental expression.. Exactly. She is the one judged and she falls right into it. Those kinds of ambiguous cold reads are money because they spin up the hamster “what does a stripper look like?!” Lol. It’s the perfect double bind neg. Too ugly? Too prim? Etc… I am a strippet dammit and that’s the source of power in my shit test… And this sperg says i don’t look like one! And i start to qualify to him and he hits me with “not like you” what the fuck does that mean???? This keeps her on the fence. I’d say the guy still had a shot until he started leering…

    That is the moment of no doubt for her..

    Look at it from a cat’s pov not a beta…

    PSA – this kind of misread is common. My WK buddy is always blowing up my sets by contemporaneous outbursts of rule following beta think… “you can’t say that” “I’m sorry he has no filter” etc. Pick up is often messy and there are spikes and provoked shit tests that to an untrained eye look like suicide. Unless you see the end result.

    Here our hero is sperging his way through some technique unawares… But that’s the norm unknowingly flipping the right switches then paying for it over a lifetime.

  65. “Look at it from a cat’s pov not a beta…”

    She is the cat looking at a beta the whole time.

    She was always out of his league, with more IOI’s and orbiters as a stripper,she is sick of this shit and he flailed all the way. Get real dude.

  66. Boulderhead

    Nah… He was still viable till the leer. Hence her falling into the frame he set and qualifying.

    To a stripper question her boner fides is a nuclear neg.

  67. @O.B.I.T. and Orso

    Classic.

    The comments on that article were also classic including some from women that have ridden the cock carousel and then told about their feelings about future sex partners. Some of which were tells for men.

    Seeking communication is just a checkers or chess or poker player move to see your cards, your intent and your future moves. It is a gambit and a ploy for her. This does not mean that a man shouldn’t communicate with her/ cannot communicate with her/ or doesn’t want to communicate with her. Just not on her terms exclusively or on the behest of the therapist. No fault communication is what it should be. In this case the woman and the therapist are putting all the fault on the male. That’s not cool.

    It would work every time if a man falls for that: and attempt to make the man serve her exclusively. It usually amounts to finding the man’s Thumbscrew so it can be used as a tool.

    It’s so second stage instead of third stage. It’s so much putting up barriers for him to penetrate,
    while not taking down her barriers to receive him and his stuff.

    Seeking Communication is really her signal that she is suffering from emotional ambiguity. Most men view a woman’s pronouncement of “I don’t feel we are communicating” as a logical statement addressing the exchanging of facts — or a lack of such activity — between two people. It is not. It is an emotional statement involving her confusion and emotional disconnection from the relationship. When the woman puts the blame on the man, this is normal, for two reasons. For one, women habitually blame their own emotional distress on external factors, thus absolving themselves from responsibility. When a man happens to be the most convenient “blame receptacle”, then he gets the blame. The second reason she does this is that she is actually making a request for masculine leadership. She wants her man to step up and deal with her out-of-control emotional state with mascvi-line strength, and without fear. The only important word in any such statement coming from a woman is “feel.” It’s so important that in many cases it doesn’t matter what she feels, as long as it’s any emotion stronger than indifference. Anything with passion will do, as long as it’s followed up, in all cases, with the appropriate level of physical commitment. And always make sure that intense displays of passion are followed by intense displays of affection. Let’s be blunt: keep her well-sexed.
    –from Practical Female Psychology book, Stage Two of Female Stages of Manipulation

  68. “To a stripper question her boner fides is a nuclear neg.”

    In the beginning of the interaction she hides that she is a stripper, it is only after this first moment of discernment 0:54 that she no longer cares what he thinks and reveals this. This chick didn’t need a neg. She was pre negging herself.

  69. Keith
    Anonymous Reader I’m not talking about all woman kind. I’m talking about that 0.01 percent or less than that.

    You keep moving the goalposts around over and over. That’s dumb. You really need to read more of this site. Right now you are commenting from a position of fear and lack of knowledge.

  70. SJF
    Many thanks, think I’ve already seen that passage on TRM but it bears constant repeating.
    Actually the very phrase “talking to a woman about her feelings” is bass-ackwards, as you will not be the one doing the talking. Do not get dragged or subtly led into this “talk,” with or without a third-party ref.

    See Mark Twain’s advice on wrestling with a pig (you’ll only get all muddy and the pig enjoys it) or arguing with a fool (passersby won’t be able to tell the difference).

  71. PS I do not mean to say be inconsiderate or ignorant of her feelings — by all means have some idea what’s going on between her ears as well as other central distribution points. If she starts revealing her feelings listen respectfully and take good notes.

    But do not get led into the tar-pit of a back-and-forth discussion where anything you say can and will be used against you. Your own feelings, frustrations and interpretations — even whatever concessions you ill-advisedly might make — are like 5-Hour Energy Drink for her hamster. Only it might last five months or five years.

    Guys who willingly wallow in this kind of talk can get to seem … well, kind of creepy. And while some I’m sure can play it effectively, most who try will get run over and flattened Rollerball style.

    One of the key tenets around here is you cannot negotiate desire. And I’m not sure if there’s much at all you can negotiate. Couples who are on a good wavelength trade off instinctively but in general you have to focus on your own actions and attitude and hope to lead by example.

  72. Freezer does well with his chicken coop analogy

    They want to the fox to have his untamed and visceral way. But the one who simply peers in…

    As another poster brilliantly pointed out it’s very easy for us to flex our wisdom and deride creeps but many if us grew up as them.

    I think part of my creepiness was expecting to be met halfway. I thought we were equals. But no I was playing the sexist lead and no one told me.

  73. As I’m sure has been alluded to above it’s also an uncomfortable fact that the higher your opinion of women – the creepier you come across.

    And unfortunately vice versa – which is why the genuine creeps, societal scumbags, are often at least initially considered attractive by women.

  74. Not born this morning
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0
    ““LADY Justice” and “LADY Liberty”…

    What relevance do real justice and real liberty have to gender? If none, then why are these effigies female? Why wouldn’t they be male? If they, or one of them, COULD have been male, then why are neither? By just accidental random pure coincidence? I think not, because I am not a fool. Consider real conditions and the direction of “culture” and “progress”.

    If gender doesn’t matter, concerning how the orchestrators expect us to perceive liberty and justice, then why would either gender be included or excluded in these effigies? What the fuck does gender have to do with either justice or liberty, or God forbid BOTH?! What motif, what metaphor do these effigies communicate to us by their conspicuous presentation? What automatic default paradigm are they intended to conscript in the minds of all? Aren’t liberty and justice nonsexual after all? If so, why would a truly impartial “judge” even risk suggesting they are by creating (and virtually deifying) these feminine effigies, effectively establishing that gender has something (everything) to do with both?

    And… why is “LADY Justice” blindfolded? Because, as you say, SHE must remain blind to gender, race, religion, ethnic background, age, sexual “orientation”, etc. What will be added next? To how many caveats must “”LADY justice” succumb in order to be considered pure? LADY justice’s vision is so biased or blurred that it will corrupt her ability to make impartial judgements, so she must blindfold herself. Why should we trust that her sense of balance is any less biased or distorted than her vision? Didn’t we have to open our eyes to see the truth of what the red pill reveals to us?

    Our forefathers put the whore in charge, of not only our civilization, but also how we define ourselves to ourselves. This fact is self evidently and blatantly manifested by how the great majority of “men” now frustratingly and confusedly discuss their enslavement.
    https://constitutioncenter.org/media/files/constitution.pdf

    Here is a damned lie, quite possibly the most awful damned lie ever written: “All men are created equal”. “We hold these truths to be self evident….” What perverse form of “truth” is this?It is a blatant absolute self-evident fact that we aren’t equal! How can we acknowledge, respect and negotiate our differences, our inequalities, in all aspects, when we are conned into arguing and fighting over this lie?”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrGEQvAZQtA

    Damn i need to discuss this all with you in person over a meal and with a notepad…

  75. Sometimes I wonder if concentration of capital is a causal factor in Hypergamy. 50s to late 70s U.S. saw an unprecedented combination of high employment, growth, unionization and income equality. Once inflation inevitably set in and strong, there was a trend reversal with trickle-down Reagonomics in the 80s to the present and ongoing: https://medium.com/@Santafebound/is-there-a-theory-of-everything-for-monetary-and-fiscal-policy-7e1f76fb36a4

    That trend reversal was probably the correct move, but then went overboard. Norms about work ethic and compensation tend to change as we alternate between Neo-Keynesian (low interest, more-regulated, moderate inflation) and Austrian (high interest, less-regulated, deflationary) economic regimes: https://editorialexpress.com/cgi-bin/conference/download.cgi?db_name=SBE37&paper_id=28

    This may explain why “masculine men” are flocking to Eastern Europe. Lower economic growth rates are potentially more conducive to the good life lived because of a flatter social status hierarchy.

  76. Addendum to the above, a flatter social status hierarchy likely means fewer “perceived-to-be” creeps in a population of prospective mates. I’m not saying we should aspire to such a world (it speaks to a somewhat stifling personal growth mindset), but it’s something to consider.

  77. @Martin Erlić

    I sense you are trying to alleviate cognitive dissonance in your pursuit of Selonomics. (me perusing your blog).

    If you want to talk about maximizing your value by producing less or wanting to produce less in a Society, a top down analysis of economics is practically useless.

    One of the essences of The Rational Male is that it espouses a bottoms up approach to Awareness and self actualizing. In other words, you can’t complain about the village, or society, or city or state or country in which you voluntary place yourself. It is up to you to develop agency among those which which you place yourself.

    Or move to a different environs and don’t suffer fools (aplenty) with gladness. A lot of fools have bobbed to the surface lately.

  78. Hi guys,
    I’ve been lurking here and there but not really able to keep up with comments. Just a quick update: It’s been going really well with my wife; the nuclear option combined with her realizing that I was fully willing to send her home, as well as a needed shift in my MPO has done wonders. She is a RP natural and easy to work with. She got her employment authorization and SS# about 3 weeks ago. (update that spreadsheet Sentient?)

    Also, here’s a little ray of sunshine to brighten your day. It is really delicious.

    http://www.dallasobserver.com/amp/news/fired-dallas-county-da-slimes-uber-driver-she-drunkenly-abused-10072539

  79. @SJF

    I don’t quite agree. I” concede that positive delusions can sometimes be functional. As a door-to-door salesman I began selling more when I began to pitch with more conviction (which came easier after knocking 2000 doors). Nothing about how bad the product actually was for customers had changed.

    The fact is that “most people think they can be above average,” which is a mathematical fallacy.

    All TRP, PUA is fundamentally non-linear. We’re all looking for profits at the margins of temporary disequilibria (see Contrary Game). In a positional world, improving your status necessarily means that others do worse.

    When I go to the Selo, I am by default making others worse off, as I redirect Hypergamous attention toward myself. I once had a cousin come up to me and say “If only I had your statooos.” It was funny, and sad.

    In the end, I’m not complaining. But working hard for some people is actually pointless. They should just move to somewhere they can better optimize over their status opportunities, either geographically (to a lower-tier country) or along their social network (either up or down the hierarchy, to a social group in which they have more respect and clout).

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