The ‘Creep’ – Part 1

What makes a guy “creepy”?

For almost every woman I polled in researching this essay what makes a guy ‘creepy’ is the inability of a guy to ‘take a hint’.

Most seemed to believe that there was some ‘obvious’ (to them) boundary that ‘creepy’ men always crossed that made them into creeps. If that sounds a lot like my principle of ‘Just Get It’ you’re not too far off. Much of this goes back to women’s innate psychological filtering for optimizing Hypergamy and women expect men to ‘just get’ everything about intersexual dynamics, both positive and negative. However, there is a fundamental difference between what men define as creepy (in a general sense) and what women ‘feel’ is creepy with regards to creepy men. I’ll go into both in this essay, but it’s important to make this distinction because for both men and women there is a peripheral awareness about other people’s behavior that sets off psychological triggers which inform us that something isn’t quite right about that person and to beware of danger.

Personally, I believe we have evolved a pretty good instinct about what makes us feel unsafe about other people. For people who have some sort of clinical neurosis sometimes all it takes is to listen to that person’s speech or watch their mannerisms. If you meet someone who is drunk, it’s pretty easy to diagnose that person’s state without having to smell their breath. We instinctively get a feeling that this person is not speaking (slurring) or behaving like a sober person would. Drunkenness is an easy illustration of this instinct, but the same goes for true forms of insanity (schizophrenia, paranoia, bipolar disorder). Unless we’re really naive or just ignoring the indicators we can tell when a person is off.

Dementia and Alzheimers are easy diagnoses too. From there though, by degrees of subtlety, we really have to hone our senses to what’s right or wrong about a person’s behavior. What’s more difficult to wrap our heads around is sussing out people who have a better capacity to hide their disorders. Autism, Asperger’s Syndrome or just acute social awkwardness is sometimes manageable and we either accept it as part of their personality or we understand it as a disorder and we (as “normies”) choose to ignore it. This is where the social conditioning of today does us a disservice to some extent.

In our feminine-primary social order of tolerance and acceptance, this innate, often peripheral or unconscious, sense of understanding that something is off about someone is something we are taught we ought to keep sublimated. We don’t want to appear “judgmental” or we’re shamed for actually heeding the messages our instincts are telling us are red flags about people. Conditions and disorders that we used to consider abnormalities in the past are things we’re expected to progressively have more and more empathy for. That isn’t to say that we ought not be sympathetic to a person’s condition, but it is to say that this expectation of acceptance reduces our capacity to listen to what our instinct is telling us about a person. We get conditioned to tuning out our natural instincts about a person who may want to harm or manipulate us.

I mentioned this hindbrain instinct in Gut Check as being one reason we tend to get jealous or possessive of our mates.

Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.

The dynamic of Mate Guarding is also a behavioral adaptation that evolved to ensure our paternity or parental investment with a mate. Our social order today teaches us that men who feel jealousy, suspect infidelity or are prone to mate guard are by definition “insecure”. This redefining is meant to cover for women’s control of Hypergamy, in the hopes that men will self-police these instincts, but in doing so they become sublimated. So we self-convince that it’s wrong for us to heed what our hindbrain is telling us for our own preservation.

However, when it comes to women’s instincts we exaggerate their importance beyond all realistic measure. Since we prioritize women’s hindbrain perception and feeling above all else, we would never downplay their importance without risking a lot of social fallout and shame. Whereas men’s instincts are signs of ‘insecurity’, women’s instincts (feminine intuition) are raised to a metaphysical level. So when a woman says a guy “creeps her out” or is acting “creepy” we tend to misunderstand what exactly it is her hindbrain is telling her and us. There are two aspects of ‘creepy’ to women:

  • The sense of self-preservation and imminent danger that is associated with a man whom her hindbrain is telling her that there’s something not quite right about. The guy is directly communicating or subcommunicating that he may be a potential threat to her wellbeing. Her intuition is something that is exaggerated beyond all reasonable, realistic perception, but her subconscious only knows what it knows and the social conditioning kicks in to be overly cautious. This may or may not be the actual case, but women evolved to err on the side of over-cautiousness – particularly when it comes to men’s behavioral cues and perceptions of anger.
  • The sense of insult to her capacity to optimize Hypergamy with a suboptimal male makes her “creeped out”. In this sense the “creep” offends her hindbrain’s expectation of reproducing with the best genetic partner her ego believes is really her due. As you’ll see in a moment, when a physically arousing man repeats the same behavior as a less-arousing man the feeling of ‘creep’ is diminished. Much of this has a lot to do with that guy’s sense of congruency between his behavior (sub-communications) and her intuition about his authenticity, but largely the initial ‘hotness’ of one man vs. a less hot one can spell the difference between a “creep” and “awkward-but-cute”. Arousal compensates for a lot of behavioral miscues, but the point is that this sense of ‘creepiness’ is fundamentally based in a woman’s ego-sense of losing direct control of Hypergamy and her capacity to optimize it. What ‘creepy’ distills down to is a woman’s Hypergamous-level revulsion of a man believing he may be someone she would eventually have sex with. Creepy is an insult to Hypergamy.

In both these instances it’s important to consider that we’re talking about both an instinctual dynamic and how it’s been modified by our social order. The following are a few of the most common descriptions of ‘creepy’ I was able to collate for this essay:

Getting in my personal space when I don’t know/barely know you. It’s weird and uncomfortable, and if you’re bigger than me then it can feel quite intimidating.

When I worked in a bar one guy told me I was prettier than anyone else there. But he kept going on about how they weren’t attractive and had nothing to offer as far as looks go. Yeah? Some of those are my dearest friends you’re bashing.

When I make it clear I’m not interested and he keeps trying. It makes me feel uncomfortable and it puts me in a bad position cause there are only so many times you can politely turn someone down.

Over Persistence

It’s an unfortunate but totally predictable response to much of our entertainment, where the storyline involves a man “winning” an initially uninterested woman either by wooing her directly or by performing some great feat. We’ve seen this archetypal story for centuries (since the rise of courtly love). Persistence is always rewarded in Disney Blue Pill fantasies Everyone is the hero of their own story. So if you’re raised on stories like that, of course you don’t take an initial “no” as the final answer. It’s all part of the story. You’re the hero and you want her, so you’ll get her in the end.

Persistence is always a sensitive topic in the ‘sphere. Some guys will tell you that even without Indicators of Interest a woman is only a conversation away from being into you if your Game is good enough to convince her. Others will tell you to balance your efforts and play to your strengths; why bother with a dead end if other opportunities are available? In either case a guy can come off as creepy when he takes this persistence to the extreme. It’s one thing to not “take a hint” from a woman, it’s an order of degree worse when a guy persists in not taking that hint because he’s been taught he’ll be rewarded for persistence.

I have had the “attempts-at-polite-rejection” turn scary (thankfully, the worst it ever got was being slammed into a wall) enough times that as soon as someone doesn’t take “no” for an answer once, I start internally freaking out.

Persistence when a woman has rejected a guy is the top complaint of creepiness. Women expect a guy to ‘just get it’. Social retardation (I mean that in a clinical sense) and Blue Pill conditioning teach a guy to never give up, to believe in some kind of predestination or romantic soul-mate date with fate, and all he needs to do is be persistent and a woman will come to the same romantic-but-logical conclusion.

Women make the mistake of believing all guys understand when they are communicating rejection to them – they very often don’t, and for the same reason they’ve been taught to be zealously persistent. The Blue Pill makes them resistant to this. Blue Pill ‘creeps’ usually respond with either anger or self-pity when they finally realize their predestined girl not only rejects him, but she is scared of him or despises him. So the Nice Guy turns mean and vindictive, or he loses faith in his Blue Pill romanticization and gets despondent. Both are potentially volatile for the Beta.

I think a lot of well-meaning Beta “Nice Guys” come off as creepy simply because they follow a Blue Pill old-books script they believe will be reciprocated by women. Much of this creepiness is the result of their inability to do a realistic assessment of their own SMV. This is a tough bit of insight even for Red Pill aware men, but for Blue Pill guys it’s almost impossible because they are struggling against a social conditioning that constantly tells them what they do and who they are is ‘enough’ – or should be enough for any girl who’s of a quality to appreciate their unique-but-commonness.

In a way it’s a lot like today’s women’s egos being overinflated by social media and our present social narrative to the point that they believe their own SMV is, or should be, enough for any man, but especially men who are well above their own SMV. More than enough actually. So too does the ‘creep’ believe his own pathological self-impression. The problem here is that, for men,  we must be the initiators and with that comes the potential to be taken as an aggressor or harasser.

Where’s my hug?

I think one potentially bad outcome for the ‘creep’ is when he comes across something like a PUA program and watches an ‘instructor’ run through a set and then tries his damnedest to repeat the same behaviors and script with a girl he thinks he may have a chance with. When a PUA presumes familiarity with a woman he doesn’t know, and his internal game is congruent with his delivery, it comes off as authentic and it can (potentially) be endearing. But when a Beta ‘creep’, who’s trying his best to solve his creepiness problem, presumes the same behavior will endear him to a girl – and isn’t congruent, or doesn’t “get it” – he gets even more despondent (or frustrated/aggravated) when all it does is reinforce and enhance his perception of creepiness.

A common Game technique is to presume a familiarity with a woman. When PUA with Game and congruency approaches a woman and says “where’s my hug?” the effect is the polar opposite of when an incongruent Beta delivers the same line. Worse still, the guy risks not just overt rejection and creepiness perception, but he also runs the risk of having his approach considered sexual assault by order of degree. I would argue that a lot of what would otherwise be considered witty banter from a skilled PUA is creepy to women when it comes from a struggling Beta who a woman doesn’t find arousing.

This dynamic also extends to over-sexualizing a conversation with women when no context has been established between the creep and the girl.

I get creeped out by guys who immediately start talking about sexual topics in response to everything you say, every single time you are within communicating distance of each other while you two barely know each other to drop a “hint”. I had a guy that found a way (albeit poorly) to turn everything I said sexual. And whenever I called him out on it and told him to knock it off, I was being a “prude”.

Also, asking personal (sexual) questions or sharing stories of the same, especially if you’re not even casual acquaintances. I know a lot of women who want to be polite but are totally creeped out by this.

What’s fascinating about this sex-conversation creep is that, when the reverse is true, there’s no better indicator that a woman is into having sex with a you. In an upcoming essay I’ll outline our social progression towards a unilateral control of every aspect of the intersexual process by women, but for now consider that when a woman immediately presumes a sexual context in conversation it’s a solid confirmation that you’ve passed (or are passing) her Hypergamous filter. And that’s the fundamental nature of this kind of creepy guy; he presumes an acknowledged state of sexual-ness without having passed this Hypergamous determination. I’ve said in the past that women don’t decide in the first five minutes of meeting a guy if she will have sex with him, rather, she knows if she wont have sex with him.

Again, Game sometimes reinforces the idea that a guy needs to establish a sexual context with a woman from the opening, but the creep doesn’t understand the artistry and nuance that goes along with applying this. My friend, Alan Roger Currie, is a big proponent of straight up, “I wanna fuck you, are you down?” style of direct Game. While I have seen this effective with women it does promote the idea that a guy can simply presume a sexual context with any woman from the outset. And really, when a creep tries to drop ‘hints’ about sex or attempts to get personal information in a blunderingly obvious (but he thinks stealthy) way he’s not employing a direct Game – he’s beating around the bush in the hopes that he’ll pass her sex test.

When a less-than-proficient, less-than-arousing Beta adopts this direct-but-not-directness he runs the risk of being perceived as creepy, or worse, as a harasser. For a mature, socially savvy man, the obvious retort is “well, no guy should presume anything, there needs to be some kind of rapport’, but remember, we’re talking about guys who in large part Don’t Get ItThis should make for a good conversation this week. Let me know your thoughts on what you think constitutes ‘creepiness’ in the comments.

As I was researching and writing on this topic It occurred to me how deep this dynamic really is, so I’ve decided to split it into a series. In part two we’ll go into a bit more of what makes for creepiness in a Hypergamous context.  I’ll also delve into how creepiness has been developed into a feminine-operative social convention.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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constrainedlocus
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What I find interesting is that “hugging” is often actually encouraged, modeled and heavhily rewarded by parents of autistic children especially as a form of apologizing and making amends after having a disagreement, misbehaving, hurting someone else (physically or non) or just showing gratitude and appreciation. This is actively instructed by parents because so many autistic kids lack the ability to show empathy, and are utterly indifferent to such scenarios that require an emotional connection. They cannot easily make and maintain friendships, and do not process cause and effect very well, and cannot discern human social cues the same way,… Read more »

KL
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KL
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Why did the Realcmqforum vanish?

rugby11
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rugby11
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kfg
” I’d be a pervert if I didn’t hit on you.’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u5SiCCmVv0

J.R.
“Why? because these women have changed places with men putting the body before the brain, many will disagree with me, but that’s what I’m seeing out here. The ‘Hypergamous Filter” is more real than ever…sure, women will always accept money, gifts and favors, but they don’t need men’s resources as they did prior to 1990s.”

Spot on man…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MWfeGvPJZU

Not Born This Morning
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Healthy males are “horny” much of the time. Male libido is consistent and relatively continuous until later in life. This is normal, healthy and expected. Women know, accept, and prefer this. The truth is self-evident, blatant and elementary. Female libido is cyclical. Women sexualize themselves in competition to attract personal attention from the pool of male “hard ons” for both sexual and economic personal gain. Each woman prefers to be the center of male sexual attention, the most sought-after object of male desire. Women “slut shame” each other in their consistent competition for male attention and compete for it in… Read more »

CSI
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CSI
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“What I find interesting is that “hugging” is often actually encouraged, modeled and heavhily rewarded by parents of autistic children….” Yes its cute when a little boy hugs someone spontaneously, not so cute when a teenaged boy or man does the same thing. Parents need to be thinking ahead. Although I see in feminist circles the latest trend is to teach children than any touching, beyond maybe formal handshakes, requires full on enthusiastic consent. But it is creepy when an 18 yo boy hugs a 15 yo girl and, accidentally or on purpose, very briefly touches the top of her… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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“The most attractive women are respected by others if they remain “tasteful” in their persona and effectively cannot be slut shamed. The most attractive who escape the slut shaming via PC behavior, are emulated by other women (however what is now accepted of women is not PC for men).”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3fpm3V6F6o

rugby11
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SJF
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https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/the-consequence-of-this-new-sexual-counter-revolution-no-sex-at-all/ Are we comfortable with the idea that whenever sexual interest is expressed it must be fully reciprocated at the risk, when declined, of utter ruin? We might expect people in public life to behave well, but are we certain that we want to create a situation where everyone there (however tenuously) must be either monogamous or celibate? Would the public like this morality to trickle down to them? The morality of the sexual revolution certainly did, so they can be assured that the effects of any counter-revolution will come to them too. Worse lies beneath these presumptions. Not least… Read more »

Keith
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Keith
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Don’t worry about Roy Moore he’s in. We gonna send him to DC cause we don’t know what to do with him. Doug Jones just another bitch. And will somebody get Kay Ivey another bottle and tell her to shut up. God why can’t they hide that talk about creepy chicks. Any way we gonna send old Roy up to the senate so he can slap Diane Finstiane on her ass and tell her to get him a cup of coffee. I hope he rides his horse back and forth to the White House. Any way don’t worry about old… Read more »

Mineter
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I’m thinking that this phenomenon of calling men “creeps” is a corollary of slut shaming. Women keep other women in line by slut shaming because the target is reduced in value in the eyes of potential sexual mates i.e. no high value man wants to risk marrying up a whore. Men don’t use creep shaming against other men to compete with them (AMOGing instead), however, it appears to be the back channel of the preselection women use. Whereas women get the signal that a man is desirable by mere virtue that some other attractive woman finds him desirable, women will… Read more »

freebird
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freebird
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Unwanted advances are actually criminal offenses in Australia now.
How much do you guys need to demand consideration from the gender enemy?
Talk of “calibrating” how you’re going to suck up to a walking court fest?
Madness.Masochism.
Buy yeah, I’m sure one of you “alpha bro’s” can make it where I’m the sick fuck on this page.

stuffinbox
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“The Creep” also represents negotiated sex. Needy based negotiation, re Harvey offering to further a career for favors, is insinuating that she lacks talent, is a prostitute or wants him. Next say she takes him up on it, she will be judged by her peers for fucking her way up the ladder, even in the case of no negotiation upfront, where she is hard working, talented, good looking she will still be judged a whore. Now in a natural state of affairs when the,never mix business with pleasure rule is broken, with no negotiation, the boss man may confer special… Read more »

Blaximus
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kfg
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kfg
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“Now in a natural state of affairs when the,never mix business with pleasure rule is broken, with no negotiation, the boss man may confer special treatment, favoritism and be protective. This is just setting him up for expectations of reciprocation, if and when he verbalizes this it is game over, he is now a creep.” When I saw Pretty Woman I was struck by one scene: Gere: I never treated you like a prostitute. Roberts: You just did. The fact of the matter is that until that moment he had never treated her as anything but a prostitute, quite overtly.… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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ALL of the following are manifestations of male emasculation. PUA – who needs it other than those who are socio-sexually impotent? Game – see PUA, only inexperienced psychologically emasculated males need such a “plan” to approach, enjoy and have sex with females. Sex is such a natural, basic human primordial instinctive phenomena, it should come naturally. It is as natural and normal as eating and shitting. Do we have to read books, attend seminars, read blogs and join strategic discussions to figure out to eat or defecate? What the puck is the matter with us? Manosphere – see PUA and… Read more »

SJF
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“I’m thinking that this phenomenon of calling men “creeps” is a corollary of slut shaming. Women keep other women in line by slut shaming because the target is reduced in value in the eyes of potential sexual mates i.e. no high value man wants to risk marrying up a whore. Men don’t use creep shaming against other men to compete with them (AMOGing instead), however, it appears to be the back channel of the preselection women use. The female social matrix and the male social matrix are not correlated. Male spaces are one thing. Introducing two females (rather than one)… Read more »

stuffinbox
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stuffinbox
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“It was only when he suddenly treated her” differently. Relationship changes aren’t typically spontaneous or sudden. They can occur over time however if a man practices good game. A man should start with better prospects to begin with.

Julia has out grown her wardrobe, good thing it didn’t work out.

Culum Struan
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Sean Larson has been discussed before. I have a vague recollection of discussing him back when many of us were hanging out in the CH comment threads in 2014/15. I don’t think he had Youtube infields back then but I definitely remember reading several FRs and LRs on his previous blog which now seems to have vanished but is probably on archive.org or something. Basically he was running hardcore numbers game on his campus and going direct with lots of fast escalation, even from daygame. Even then he managed to burn out a huge campus and get his name too… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Relationship changes aren’t typically spontaneous or sudden.”

The scene as it played was quite clunky. I got the feeling that the writers revealed a red pill truth accidentally, without understanding what they were doing.

Not Born This Morning
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Men, women and sex…

http://dai.ly/x4hwa1m

Not Born This Morning
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rugby11
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rugby11
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SJF “Men use a meritocracy to maintain their tribal shit.” https://www.fandor.com/films/vietnam_long_time_coming Mineter “Women keep other women in line by slut shaming because the target is reduced in value in the eyes of potential sexual mates i.e. no high value man wants to risk marrying up a whore. Men don’t use creep shaming against other men to compete with them (AMOGing instead), however, it appears to be the back channel of the preselection women use. Whereas women get the signal that a man is desirable by mere virtue that some other attractive woman finds him desirable, women will signal to other… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Damn! One more time

Men, women and sex….

http://abc7ny.com/2629600/

rugby11
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rugby11
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Men, women and sex….

Walawala
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Walawala
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Another sign of creepiness: lack of male friends. It’s a sign of some of my so-called friends that they would innediately immediately undermine to girls. There was one guy who sadly chased a plate I was banging. When things with me and the plate split he told me about how he once took her out…for her sloppy drunk and claimed she tried to fuck him. I cut him off. He told other girls about how mean I was to him—creepy. Another case is a married “friend” of mine. His wife is a social butterfly. I’ve gone for drinks with this… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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I think a woman finds you hot or not long before she has any idea how you comradeerice/comradeerate.

Game Aware Autistic Creep
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A creep in a woman’s eyes is basically an uggo who can’t read the fact that she think’s he’s or you’re an uggo.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cuckservatives)
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My dearest darling anonymouse reader, my crumpet, my poppy, my pigsnie: An election in Alabama doesn’t mean a cunt hair to me. Read the rest of my post, I predict he wins. He’ll put on an entertaining rodeo. That kind of politics has been baked into the South for decades. I merely observe and report. But he’s an egregiously sanctimonious fuck. The ultimate Churchian. I find such twats quite irritating, just as I find SJW virtue signalers who are every bit as Holly Holy most tedious. I don’t want them being the boss of me now. He can get him… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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Is the Dolph video for real or some publicity stunt of sorts? That he was reigned in by an older black female singer and used as a genitalia scrubber for a year or two (or five) has nothing to do with his dad-did-what or his mom did-not-do-what. He is a genitalia scrubber for women who find him beefy sexy. He is tired of scrubbing? Retire. Meditation works for him? Ok. No need to defame his dad. Where I come from if you are a stubborn kid who insists on doing stuff that threatens your life or that of others you… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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“I did flirt with her, and I remember trying to kiss Jessica as part of what I thought was a consensual seduction ritual that went on and on for many years. I am horrified and bewildered to discover that it wasn’t consensual. I didn’t get it. It makes me reassess every relationship I have ever thought was playful and mutual.”

– Richard Dreyfuss

stuffinbox
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@Walawala What you are witnessing is a rift between “blue pill and red pill” game. One guy is conforming to the FI, while the other,(you) is owning your own game. Of course he will use you as a bad example,he is now your bitch. Just another form of social retardation. My best freinds have always been men that have woke up to the red pill truth about women. Have you heard about the Lonesome Loser? Beaten by the Queen of Hearts every time. Have you heard about the Lonesome Loser? He’s a loser but he still keeps on trying. Sit… Read more »

IRL
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IRL
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Sentient:
“The core of creepiness is not your subcommunication as much as it is your inability to read HER subcommunications. This is why a PUA can calibrate and you cannot. Or a Natural.
This is why you can copy RSDs content and manner and still fail where they succeed. They can read her subcomms in real time and adjust. Adjustment is microGame…”

This.

A test of your game boys…
What are the subcomms here and how would calibrate to them… you creeps… lol

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KL
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KL
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The feminist consent narrative says “I have a boyfriend” means no. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/69524387970613409/
Why can’t women just say no, instead of expecting creeps to just get it? Women don’t want to directly reject creeps who might take offense and violently retaliate. But when “unequal pay” is on the rape culture pyramid, I suspect feminist power is displacing rape on the agenda.
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theasdgamer
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IOIs: 3,6,7,9 (7 & 9 require comfort because she’s freaked out) give IOIs to them

rest are IODs and get back IODs and DHVs

1 is bored, 2 is dislike, 4 is anger, 5 is a shudder, 8 is a sneer

theasdgamer
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Got a relevant creepy field report. I opened a fatty who was with a trim friend with, “Do I have your permission to ask your friend to dance.” The friend said, “Go away.” I calibrated this as unnecessarily rude behavior and required boundary enforcement, so I replied with, “I’m sure your farts smell minty fresh. Have a good night.” I checked the exchange with a dance partner. I told her that the girl had been rude and what my response had been and she at first thought I was inappropriate. When I told her that I had merely asked the… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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I am thinking only 3.

Just Saying
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Just Saying
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This is why I started a band long ago. It is an instant “in” with women, and if you give them an excuse (“Come back to meet the band after the show.” The ones that are interested will come.) That worked but it didn’t give women a “reason” to come back stage other than to meet the band. So married women and those with bf’s weren’t able to come up with an excuse if they were with their families or others that might report back. So when we added a CD, and signatures, the number of women coming back and… Read more »

fleezer
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fleezer
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I’ve been called a “creep” one time. by a very hot yoga teacher. definitely in the “I’m going to write my name in jizz on the walls of her uterus” territory I went from “solid prospect” to “creep” in a micro second. how? she found out I was married. post script: less than a year later she was knocked up. by a dude who looked just like me (but who could be harvested for a sperm donation and the bux to pay for her little bundle of joy). I’m sure he thought he hit the jackpot. he probably doesn’t even… Read more »

aletheia
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aletheia
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@Anonymous Reader

I agree with you on technical grounds. On substantive grounds I disagree.

fleezer
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fleezer
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“Can’t be “creepy” when the women come to you…” laying bait and seeing what comes around isn’t nearly as fun as spotting something you want and taking it true reward is always going to entail significant risk the last something I spotted that I really really wanted, I couldn’t have women in 2017 will let the fox into the henhouse. then they watch what he does there. if a man gets caught peeking in the henhouse…. he’s a creep/beta the best ones will always test you. it’s a game. she wants you to get caught looking at her. this is… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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Yollo Comanche
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I don’t want excitement. I want satisfaction.

IRL
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IRL
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Re facial expressions, I’ll post a longer breakdown later not to spoil the fun yet…

In the meantime, have a look at this:
http://www.microexpressionstest.com/micro-expressions-test/

Something less ‘acted’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5p-l3Wvpwc

Nonverbals ‘in general’:

sayonara
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The funny thing is that with all of the past problems I’ve had in connecting with women, my first instinct re rejection from them was to bail, and I wish that I had always followed that. Unfortunately, exposure to some of the early PUA materials from the 2000s like David DeAngelo and RSD screwed me up for a time. While I never did anything too obnoxious, I was sometimes overly persistent with women who had no real interest in me. That was not only me coming off as possibly creepy, but it was also added discouragement because I was wasting… Read more »

Blaximus
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[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNIZofPB8ZM&w=854&h=480%5D

That was a quick 37 years. Where does the time go? Lol.

kfg
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mike
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Game led many men to inflate what they internally knew their league was. With sex harassment laws expanding, every man better have a good read on his league before approaching a woman.

mike
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@sayonarra, david de angelo is actually a well-known con-man named eban pagan. You should see where his game got him – an ugly looksmatch.

Markos Beers
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Just a comment or three. Calibration goes for non-sexual conversation as well. Examples of big bugaboos everyone knows are politics and religion. Oversharing or asking too personal a question also comes from the same place of poor calibration. This is kind of echoed in Blaximus’ “more than one red-pill,” though I’m not a fan that the term “red-pill” seems to be hijacking good ol’ Truth in our lexicon here. I’m a pretty good perpetrator of miscalibrating in the above areas. It comes not just from poor calibration at times, but from an impetuous ZFG. The idea of Amused Mastery has… Read more »

Sentient
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IRL

Are there any samples with an attractive girl? That girl is weird looking, boyish…

As it is… the only thing I can see a glimmer in would be 2,3 and 8.

But mostly she is repulsive.

Sentient
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Mike

Game led many men to inflate what they internally knew their league was. With sex harassment laws expanding, every man better have a good read on his league before approaching a woman.

Nah… total BS. leagues etc… SMV Scores don’t map on men… Scray tried this with his numerology…

Sentient
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Calibration goes for non-sexual conversation as well. Examples of big bugaboos everyone knows are politics and religion. Oversharing or asking too personal a question also comes from the same place of poor calibration.

These all depend on the frame of the seeker… nothing more.

Sentient
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=37&v=6731LIO2LKI

Floyd agrees with Trump that it was just “locker room talk” … and explains how the language Trump used is simply how “real men” speak to each other.
“Real men speak like, ‘Man, she had a fat ass. You see her ass? I had to squeeze her ass. I had to grab that fat ass.’ Right? So he talking locker room talk.”
“I’m the man, you know what I’m saying? You know who I am. Yeah, I grabbed her by the p***y. And?”

Anoymous Reader
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aletheia

@Anonymous Reader
I agree with you on technical grounds. On substantive grounds I disagree.

That’s nice. So what?

Feminists are always quick to deny men’s actual experiences. It’s a political extension of the FI habit of gaslighting. So I won’t be editing my memories of reality to suit your emotions or politics of the moment, dearie.

“Creepy” women exist. I’ve seen them, close up. Reality. Deal with it.

Anonymous Reader
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Fred Flange My dearest darling anonymouse reader, my crumpet, my poppy, my pigsnie: Yer creepy. An election in Alabama doesn’t mean a cunt hair to me. Oh, that’s why you keep going on and on and on and on about it? Read the rest of my post, I predict he wins. He’ll put on an entertaining rodeo. That kind of politics has been baked into the South for decades. I merely observe and report. But he’s an egregiously sanctimonious fuck. The ultimate Churchian. I find such twats quite irritating, just as I find SJW virtue signalers who are every bit… Read more »

Markos Beers
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No, it “all” doesn’t, it depends on things outside your frame as well. Calibration is based on responding to things outside of Frame. Or, put another way… When two men are vying for position it’s like an OODA loop. Observation (Recon) Orientation (Frame) Decision (Calibration) and Action.

Yollo Comanche
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“I don’t want excitement. I want satisfaction.”

Oh….shit.

Anonymous Reader
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fleezer I’ve been called a “creep” one time. by a very hot yoga teacher. definitely in the “I’m going to write my name in jizz on the walls of her uterus” territory From your text it looks obvious she was over 30, dismounting her carousel ponies and hunting for Beta Bux. Thus your actual arrangement as intended was perforce a Creeper offence of the 2nd degree because she saw you as pulling a Bait & Switch on her. Your lack of congruence from her perspective = “creep” because she was disappointed. Nothing like the mass-transit-groper type, but emotionally the same…that’s… Read more »

Lost Patrol
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Great book Markos Beers.

“Poor Grendel’s had an accident”, I whisper. “So may you all.

Markos Beers
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Mistake not cutting/pasting. My last post was responding to Sentient’s “These all depend on the frame of the seeker… nothing more.”

And pertinent to this post, observation is crucial in all ways, not only in seeing nuances in the other, but also understanding one’s own frame. Only then can one make adjustments to become congruent…

Ergo practice Game and subcomms. Work on Frame and internals. And pay attention…

Blaximus
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I’m not at all convinced that one can ” practice ” subcomms.

Pua fallacy.

Anonympous Reader
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Just for Fred Flange because he’s chairing up the Roy Moore Fan Club:

Don’t be surprised if we find out that these late hit accusations of Sexual Miss Conduct were cooked up by GOP insiders rather than D insiders. Moore is the kind of loose cannon that nice beltway insiders don’t want rolling around the gun deck of their toy boat, he might not toe the line.

Anonymous Reader
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Blaximus
I’m not at all convinced that one can ” practice ” subcomms.

Suppose it was possible, somehow. What would that look like? Firm handshake and good posture, or what?

Markos Beers
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Blaximus “I’m not at all convinced that one can ” practice ” subcomms. Pua fallacy.” Getting your mindset down before entering a scenario. Being conscious. This is much more easily done with better internals (sleep, fitness, meditation, nutrition, JPs “cleaning one’s room” etc.) So inward feeds the outward and vice versa. So, I sort of agree. Subcomms will bubble up from within. As a corollary, Blaximus, you have mentioned just how terrible it is to put pussy on a pedestal. These thoughts will likely spill over to subcomms… so could somehow breaking this thought pattern and belief help out subcomms?… Read more »

Blaximus
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Re: Practicing subcomms From my understanding, subcomms are a reflection of what’s going on inside. I mean, I guess you could sort of practice looking confident, but it’s not the same as having confidence. I just always wondered that is the average guy learning pickup as I’ve seen it demonstrated in numerous videos, does he have all of that 1) A1 2) A2 3) smirk 4) Neg… etc – if he has all of that going on inside of his head, wtf do his subcomms look like? Yeah, young women ( teens and early 20’s – sometimes much older )… Read more »

guy
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guy
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very nice post, a lot of guys are total creeps without even realizing it, if they could pull back just a tad it would make women relax around them and really improve their chances

Sentient
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Markos

No, it “all” doesn’t, it depends on things outside your frame as well. Calibration is based on responding to things outside of Frame.

and yet we have the foundation – evo psych bio and the pua mantras – strongest frame wins, what you feel she feels, women ping off their environment to understand how they feel… etc.

My mantra – the only truth to a woman is her emotion…

The Olde Books – woman as helpmeet…

Go deep…

Blax – faked subcoms are called “acting”. some can flip a switch, some need to go full Method.

Sentient
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Oh yes – left out “shit testing… LOL

What is an uncalibrated move at the end of the day…???

where is Donald Trump today… Where is Billy No Bush?

Sentient
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“So, I sort of agree. Subcomms will bubble up from within.”

And the lurch towards “congruence” and if Zeus blesses you… Authenticity.

The difference between congruence and Authenticity is the difference between a cubic zirconia and a D flawless diamond.

Markos Beers
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Lost Patrol Yeah, just some great stuff. Grendel is enraged by the Shaper in chapter 3, nearly goes (even more) crazy trying to parse out the lies society must spin to create order (cue social and network media themes), and begins to get red-pilled by the Dragon (embodiment of the nature of things, a creature who’s seen it all, future and past) in Chapter 5. By Chapter 11, the Geats and Beowulf (never named but unmistakable) show up, and Grendel is literally enraptured by him. In 1971 John Gardner, the author, describes Beowulf through Grendel’s eyes: Some talk and then… Read more »

Sentient
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“They’re like fucking fembots or something.”

You say that like it’s a bad thing?

Markos Beers
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I wrote some lines from the book, somehow didn’t show up in the post. Whatever.

Blaximus, I think we’re seeing just how different men and women manage their subcomms. Just another way we’re so disparate in our living and expression. As you state, all the more reason to keep ourselves as the mental point of origin and not try to figure them out (save for what observing reality tells us).

Sentient, Authenticity is internal congruence. No gems needed.

Markos Beers
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and yet we have the foundation – evo psych bio and the pua mantras – strongest frame wins, what you feel she feels, women ping off their environment to understand how they feel… etc. ———————————- Sentient: Yes, Strongest frames allow us to observe and calibrate accurately. My clarification for our discussion, which I sense you understand, is that it needs to accommodate reality. The entire stand-alone rock-solid/diamond idea does not address everything. Frame is good, foundation is good as ideas because they create the structure to hold/contain/support all the rest. But the rest matters and informs the frame/foundation. … and… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Sentient

In 8, look how one side of the girl’s mouth is raised higher than the other…a clear sign of contempt…she’s sneering.

6 is disbelief, which may very well be an IOI because she is emotionally engaged. Humor could be involved.

With disgust and contempt, there is no emotional engagement. With fear or anger or even dislike, that can be turned around because there is emotional engagement.

cheupez
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@Mike
Call him conman whatnot; I read De Angelo recently and I can say that guy knows what he is talking bout, I shit you not.

cheupez
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@Sentient
Stay away from 8 please.

Markos Beers
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ASD

Maybe you’re right, regarding 8. Though simple asymmetry in facial nerve tone will cause that, too…

Just an experiment for everyone, look in the mirror and make a big grin. For most, it won’t be the same, side to side.

Markos Beers
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“With disgust and contempt, there is no emotional engagement.”
————————

Oh, yes there is, just irreversibly negative. Genocidal regimes are based on it…

earl
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‘ the only truth to a woman is her emotion’

Hence why men and women are different…men are aware their emotions aren’t necessarily truth.

earl
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“With disgust and contempt, there is no emotional engagement.”

Indifference is the only time there’s no emotional engagement. Everything else is either positive or negative.

Sentient
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In 8, look how one side of the girl’s mouth is raised higher than the other…a clear sign of contempt…she’s sneering.

Ha… Yes the kind of sneer that says “You’re gonna fuck me???? I don’t think so.”

Which we know from our pocket Cat-O-Nese dictionary means – if she is thinking about “fucking” and thinking about “you”… she is thinking about “fucking you”. The rest is just going through the dance to get there.

stuffinbox
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@IRL

Without reading body language or hearing speech inflections. She is basically acting and giving of a phony asshole vibe in every pic. This may be what she is trying to get across with her photo test.

1,Disengaged, Disinterest

2,Despise,Spite

3,Engaging,Interest

4,But hurt, Anger

5,Disgusting ,Gross

6,Youve got to be kidding me,you can’t be serious

7,Dead pan IOI

8,Over confident,Iv’e got this

9,Resignation

earl
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‘Idk, do guys really ever do this? Are guys really that attuned to females expressions? Can guys tell what’s real and what’s false in a young woman’s face?’

Not really, we have things to do like keeping civilization humming so the women can have phones and mirrors to look at themselves in.

stuffinbox
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@Earl

For some guys being able to read women is a survival mechanism, ingrained at an early age.

The question is what are they going to do with it?

Get what they want then learn to ignore them and pay attention to more important things.

rugby11
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fleezer “women in 2017 will let the fox into the henhouse. then they watch what he does there. if a man gets caught peeking in the henhouse…. he’s a creep/beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foqgaD6-ERI the best ones will always test you. it’s a game. she wants you to get caught looking at her. this is major validation. you must deny her. everything.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsiBdK9wE3A “creep is a response to women coming too close to their own truth. they want to be stalked, seduced and fucked into submission by the best hunters. always ignore the target. but at some point you have to make your… Read more »

El-Drago19
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“That said, we live in an era where simply approaching a woman to ask her out or get a number is literally becoming a criminal act”

Why do men not reacting against any of this kinds of rules? When we will be able to see a “male right movement” especially against the laws that mandates men so much oppression in the name of equality? (Sorry for my bad english)

Sentient
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““women in 2017 will let the fox into the henhouse. then they watch what he does there.

if a man gets caught peeking in the henhouse…. he’s a creep/beta”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YAi3ADVcyfk

Spot the moment of her discernment.

earl
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1:33…

Of course if the guy had any discernment…he would of left when he heard the word ‘stripper’.

Sentient
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Judge not Earl…

earl
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Nah I judge…and I make no bones about it, that’s what I would have done if I heard that come out of her mouth.

Sentient
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I don’t doubt it Earl…

That’s not the association of come and mouth I’d want in this instence.

stuffinbox
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Moment of discernment 1, 49-56 .2, 1.14-1.15. 1st outside attention 2nd judgmental.

Yollo Comanche
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“Spot the moment of her discernment.”

0:52

kobayashii1681
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Great post on “creepiness” Rollo. Timely especially considering the eruption of all these sexual harassment news and #metoo #100women hashtags that are kicking offal over the world in my country as well. Wanted to riff on the ‘Gut check’ stuff: “Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings.” I had an interesting experience recently: I almost had an affair with married woman about 2 months ago. Started off the way these things do, woman starts… Read more »

stuffinbox
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As soon as he made a sugestion,first she didn’t get it second,next he is “mansplaining” while focusing attention to his phone.

earl
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‘how could anyone get bored in a world with so many wonderful variables??’

It’s not boring, but it is also well known how it works. Women desire to be their own god, yet they will be ruled by their husband.

Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books For Cucks)
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@anonymous reader, fuckyeah!

Let’s agree to agree it’s much more fun. I was thinking that too about our cowboy candidate down in Alabama, that the accusations are being promoted by “establishment” GOPers.

And actually if you’re a Lib Dem you want to be a fan of ol Roy, he’s the negative ad that writes itself in other states.

Peace out my man. Back to the main topic, can you approach a gal and not be arrested?

Anonymous
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Off topic experience: A family member ~60 y/o was just informed by his wife of ~60 y/o that she is leaving him. As a teen, she had a kid with a guy that didn’t stick around. Some time after this the two met and got married, then he hit his peak which was becoming a highly paid professional. Later they had their own kids. He treated the step-kid like his own, helping her and giving his step-GRANDkid all the love, money, even a home when they were in hard times. He sent his own kids to the best high school,… Read more »

rugby11
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Now it’s over! The red-pill: It was his fault.

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