The Key Masters

keymaster

In last week’s comments Not Born This Morning dropped this comment in the last thread:

It has been said and it seems fairly well established as a presumed reality that “Women are the gate keepers to sex and men are the gate keepers to commitment”. This model of gender specific “gatekeeping” seems to be the most widely accepted model in the red pill community and the general culture accepts it readily. This model seems rational enough, it significantly forms our frame of understanding about gender dynamics upon which we base our interpretations of behavior & intents, and our decisions to act. But is it the best model to explain what is really going on? Could this model be inferior in that it fails to account for an underlying more fundamental motivator? Is there a more accurate explanation for women’s intents and behaviors? Could this model be potentially deceptive?

The sex side of this model is simple and easy to understand. It is very clear and specific to the fundamental biologic. It is inarguable, not negotiable. The primary drive motivating the sexual aspect is not political or social. It is biological. This is not the case with the commitment side. The commitment side is primary to the political and social realm. “Commitments” are always components of contracts written or otherwise.

To comprehend what I’m about to explain, we must first agree on the primary definition of commitment. As I understand it, a commitment is a pledge to do something, a proclamation to perform certain action (or inaction) within a specific context for the benefit of another usually in exchange for some consideration. In the sexual context women seek “commitment” from a man primarily for provisioning and sexual exclusivity. The man “commits” to the woman that he will abandon his freedom and not enter into sexual relations with other women. He pledges himself financially and sexually to her exclusively. Realistically, this form of “commitment” includes the man abandoning his options. If he becomes sexually involved with another woman, it is widely considered that he has “broken his commitment” and he is dishonored by her and society for “breaking the commitment”. But, has he really broken any commitment other than a self denigrating pledge to forgo his freedom and abandon his options? Since obviously the male imperative is polygamy and spreading his seed, then isn’t the imposition to “commit” in the first place really a dishonor of his sexuality and a dishonor to him? If so, isn’t “commitment” in this context nothing more than a form of enslavement?

So by saying men are the “gate keepers of commitment” aren’t we really saying that men are the “gatekeepers of their own enslavement”?

I’ve read this line of thought from various MGTOW hardliners in various iterations and I’ve even written a post on the concept of commitment  and what it does or doesn’t mean to a man. The idea is to equate committing to a woman with some irrational agreement to self-induced slavery. However, the problem most men have with commitment is that the old set of books has a social mandate for men to keep their word or honor an agreement. It’s what men do. Say what you mean and stick to it, but as with most every uniquely male custom, Honor among men has been one more useful distortion of the Feminine Imperative.

As I mentioned in the Paradox of Commitment, men don’t have nearly the fear of commitment our feminized social order would have us believe. Men aren’t “commit-o-phones” when it comes to military service or dedicating themselves to a business. These are the areas the women’s magazines conveniently overlook when it comes to comparing men’s commitment with committing to women in monogamy. I’m bringing this up because it’s important to see how men commit to things other than fidelity to a single woman.

If we’re going to equate monogamous fidelity to a woman with slavery we also need to see how other commitments can be viewed as being, or not being, slavery. Is the commitment of military service slavery? Particularly if you know have a pretty good idea of what to expect from that commitment? Are you volunteering for slavery if you start a business and become financially beholden to it?

From  the Paradox of Commitment:

You can even take marriage out of the equation; if I’m in a committed LTR with a GF and over the course of that relationship I realize that she’s not what I’m looking for (for any number of reasons, not just sex), even though she’s 100% faithfully committed to me and the LTR, should I then break that commitment? If I do, am I then being unethical for having broken that commitment irrespective of how I break it? Should the commitment to my own personal well being and future happiness be compromised by another commitment?

What’s my obligation; neglect myself in favor of a bad commitment or to the principle of commitment itself?

It’s my take that commitment ‘should’ be a function of genuine desire. Ideally, commitment should be to something one is so passionate about that the limiting of one’s own future opportunities that come from that commitment is an equitable, and mutually appreciated trade. This is, unfortunately, rarely the case for most people in any form of commitment because people, circumstance, opportunity and conditions are always in flux. A commitment that had been seen as equitable sacrifice at one time can become debilitating 5 years after it depending upon circumstance.

Under the old social contract, the idea that a man would compromise his sexual strategy to fulfill a woman’s (Hypergamy in the long term) had a presumed exchange – sexual access, parental investment, companionship, a good, supportive feminine role example for the kids, etc. – that made the commitment of marriage at least somewhat appealing, if not entirely equitable. I supposed a case could still be made that even under the old order of conventional gender roles and expectations men were still committing themselves to a downside bargain. But in our new, feminine-primary social order, with our broader communication, it’s certainly signing up for slavery of a sort in comparison to the options available being single.

A lot of guys think that by my advising men to spin plates and remain as non-exclusive as possible that its sole purpose is to free them up to indiscriminately bang as many women as possible. While sexual variety maybe an upside to non-exclusivity, there are many more freedoms and options that a non-exclusive man can invest himself in where committed men cannot, or wouldn’t even think to.

So yes, from a male sexual strategy perspective, and considering the terms of that commitment and consequences of breaking it are all glaringly apparent, signing up for that commitment might be assigning yourself to a kind of slavery. Under our present social conditions, staying single might be as good as it gets for men.

However, that said, there is still an undeniable, idealistic, hope that men can make the best of a marriage. Most men (see the 80% Beta men) still remarry in far greater margins than women, even after horrific divorces. We can attribute that to the sustainability of men’s sexual market value lasting longer than women’s, but the desire to want for a lasting monogamy is what I’m getting at. Even in light of the fact that women are hardwired for Hypergamy, and in light of women’s inability to appreciate the sacrifices men must make to facilitate their realities, men still, sooner or later, have a desire to lock down or otherwise wife-up a woman he idealizes. I have read the testimonies of men who will go to any length to stay in a marriage if even the outside hope of it improving exists.

I think this desire might be both a conditional and innate drive in men.

In Mrs. Hyde I quoted a study by Dr. Martie Haselton from Why is muscularity sexy? :

According to strategic pluralism theory (Gangestad & Simpson, 2000), men have evolved to pursue reproductive strategies that are contingent on their value on the mating market. More attractive men accrue reproductive benefits from spending more time seeking multiple mating partners and relatively less time investing in offspring. In contrast, the reproductive effort of less attractive men, who do not have the same mating opportunities, is better allocated to investing heavily in their mates and offspring and spending relatively less time seeking additional mates.

It’s entirely possible that a man’s sexual strategy is the simple result of his adapting to his circumstance.

Under the old social order, prior to the upheaval of the sexual revolution and feminine social primacy, investing heavily in one’s mate made good sense if the guy wanted to procreate. As men, I think we still want to apply more value to our commitment in this respect. I think it gets back to the fallacy of relational equity, but because most Blue Pill men believe that there is value in their committing to a woman, and they falsely think that women have the capacity to appreciate it, we tend to build more into it as some kind of mutually understood relationship leverage.

Gatekeepers

Back before Roosh began making his necessities into virtues, he had a pretty good insight about women being “gatekeepers” of both sex and commitment:

A popular manosphere saying is that women are gatekeepers to sex and men are gatekeepers to commitment. I wish this was an absolute truth, but it’s not. As a collective, women are often gatekeepers to both sex and commitment. Most men reading right now can surely attest to their failed attempts to secure commitment from women they slept with, and if you poll the entire population of men, you may find that they are the initiators of monogamous relationships more often than women. It only makes sense for this to be true: it is way more damaging for a man to have his woman sleep with another man and get cuckolded than the other way around. The 0.5% of the population who are skilled players and have more say with commitment don’t put a dent into this common reality. As a sex, men have very little say in determining the relationship dynamic.

[…]It would be a nice fantasy for us men to believe that we have a say in relationships and sex. It’d be nice to think that our “alpha” behavior and our game determines how a relationship can proceed, but often it doesn’t. We’re just giving the girl what she has already decided on. Do you really think you’re selling televisions to customers who came into the store with the intent to buy bicycles? The girl who falls in love with us wanted to fall in love with us, the girl who had fun with us wanted to just have fun with us, and so on. And even when a girl wants a bicycle, she still wants a certain kind of bicycle. This is why game is a numbers game, because girls are incredibly picky even when they are sexually available. The horniest girl in the club who decided on having sex will still have her pick of the litter and opt to get the best that she can.

From the perspective of men using Game to secure some kind of commitment with a woman, I’d agree, it is a numbers game. But, in general, most men aren’t learning PUA/Game to settle into an LTR and most Red Pill aware men (should) understand the nature of women well enough to leverage Game if (ever) they do look for commitment.

Roosh was correct about men not really being gatekeepers of commitment though. I think there’s a definite want on the part of guys to believe that they have some sort of leverage in the ultimate scheme of things. The Feminine Imperative constantly conditions men to think that their commitment to a woman is something insanely valuable to women. Thus, we see shaming tactics designed to call men out for avoiding commitment irrespective of men’s reasons for wanting to take precautions. This has the effect of conditioning men to think that they are the gatekeepers of something valuable.

In a sense, commitment is something valuable to a woman, however, in the age of Open Hypergamy and Strong Independent Women®, the writing is on the wall for men with regard to the convenient need for that commitment at the end-game phase of a woman’s sexual market value. So yes, a man’s commitment to monogamy with a woman has inherent value, but men are hardly the gatekeepers of it when it is a woman who does the deciding as to whether any one guy’s commitment makes any difference to her.

So, we come to a question of comparative equity with regard to men “signing up for slavery” and how inherently valuable his commitment (as convenient as it’s needed) really is to a woman. I have no doubt there are several women reading this right now who are in “relationship limbo” with a guy they desperately want to commit to them in some official capacity. And no doubt they’ll drop a story in the comments personalizing it to be typical of men, but I would argue Roosh’s point that men are the initiators of monogamous relationships far more often than women. Ironically, commitment only has value to a woman when it’s denied to her by a man who’s SMV outclasses her own.

For obvious reasons, highly desirable women, women at the peak of their sexual market valuation, are always the least concerned with men’s capacity to commit. They largely have the luxury to be selective, but furthermore the time at which women are at their highest SMV is usually the point at which men are still building upon their own. Eventually, commitment only has an appreciable value to a woman when she is most in need of it; when her SMV is in decline.

I should also point out that men, the majority being Blue Pill Betas, are the most necessitous of a woman’s commitment when she is at her highest, his is an unproven commodity, and he appreciates the value of a woman’s commitment. Thus, most men look for a stable monogamy in their early to mid 20s, while more mature men who’ve had time to build their SMV into their mid to late thirties tend to be less concerned with monogamy. This is why we hear the constant drone of women bemoaning that highly valuable, supposedly peer-equitable men’s unwillingness to commit and settle down with women aging out of the sexual marketplace. Women are far less concerned with the commitment-readiness of young, unproven men who themselves would commit to even a women in the mid-range of her SMV.

At the end here, I think it’s time Red Pill men disabuse themselves of the idea that they are the ‘gatekeepers’ of commitment, and rather employ their internalized Red Pill awareness and Game to be the ‘key masters’ of women. While I have no doubt that commitment can be a carrot on the stick for some women, the problem really lies in how that commitment is in anyway valuable and balance that knowledge with the fact that commitment, once given, becomes valueless and taken for granted when it’s established. The fact that you’d commit to a woman isn’t something that carries a relationship, no matter how badly she wanted it from you before.

There really is no quid pro quo when it comes to commitment or value in believing you’re a gatekeeper of it.

Law 20
Do Not Commit to Anyone

It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others – playing people against one another, making them pursue you.

5 1 vote
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply to DisgruntledEarthlingCancel reply

780 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Sentient From my earlier post “The kind of actual uncomfortable, even dangerous change hard work is always missing…” Uncomfortable – pain avoidance… Yup. Pain avoidance is not the same as avoiding the uncomfortable. It’s uncomfortable to do free weights at home or go to the gym to lift. Of course, lifting incorrectly can result in tissue damage, ranging from tennis elbow to much uglier things. Didja see that weight lifter in the Olympics who blew himself out? Consider a man with pulled tendons, or myofascial triggers in arm tissue, or damaged cartilege or even a broken bone such that picking… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Triage.

It’s ugly and hard,

You either want to make it through or you want to fake like you are masculine in a world that doesn’t care about you making it through.

Make it through.

Succeed.

Life is too short to fuck it up.

walawala
walawala
7 years ago

@Sentient. This is meta game level. 9 1/2 Weeks sadly was panned by critics and the director lost his nerve in telling the story of a Dom and sub so butchered it in editing. Mickey Rourke is the grand maestro. I just te read Shark’s blog. He talks nicely about how game is also about minimising and cutting your losses. Knowing when to bail. My text demonstrated an ability to walk away. My past behaviours demonstrate that i meant it. Her own awareness knew she was tooling me and went too far. Establishing frame from the start s critical slog… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

@ SJF, “Women are very smart about this stuff, it is natural for them don’t think for a minute you can pull anything over on them. While you can fake a bit you can’t fake it all. Internalization is key and that takes a lot of time and practice.” ” I second the statement made here many times. years of beta behavior can’t be fixed overnight.” Very true. I like Hank’s X=Y cold read formula as an analogy to keep shit simple. My formula (of course different context) is as follows: as a man it should be your frame first… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

Feelings first and frame second and oh yeah, that thing called reality and truth – that’s definitely last lol when dealing with women. Yep. This is why PUA is so successful. They place womans feelz’s as the priority of focus and attention.

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

AR “I tried reading Deida in a bookstore once. The temptation to throw it out the window was huge.” I could probably translate it into useful information if I could get past the rage it induces. lol. It sounds like the guy used to write cheesy romance novels. OR, maybe I just don’t “get it.” @SJF I love my wife and kids. Old Guys don’t have a monopoly on that. She just doesn’t seem to like it when I tell her… I don’t think that has anything to do with me right now… Like Julien and Blax point out, a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“I know that I’m not what I do.”

What is an anteater?

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

From Andy’s referenced blog post re: ego, “An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me” he said to the boy.” ”It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego”. “He continued, “the other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you –and inside every other person, too.” “The grandson… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“What is an anteater?”

@kfg

I am not what I’ve done up until recently before realizing that I don’t have to be a slave to my subconscious. Better?

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Andy

re: ego article

“There are a lot of people who prefer to ‘hide’ behind their strengths in fear that if the don not, their weaknesses will be revealed.”

“don not,….”

http://www.heyterry.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/barney-fife.jpg

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Andy: “I am not what I’ve done up until recently before realizing that I don’t have to be a slave to my subconscious. Better?”

Better; although I note that coming to that realization was a process.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Andy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQKjMvG7BLU

“I am not what I’ve done up until recently before realizing that I don’t have to be a slave to my subconscious”

Have you watched the Gambler? Going “all in” on Andy is a process too…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE_2VEWvEH8

And pursuit of the Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it] will keep you on course…

Enjoy!

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

@kfg

Got it.

@Sentient

🙂 thx

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

So Rollo… you didn’t text your wife when you got there that the work was hard… that you were bored… that you were thinking of her… that you missed her…?

She got to come and see what the real world is like for Mr. T, the man in command…?

how about that…

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Rollo – As a guy who hasn’t had a drink in 21 years I can relate to watching what goes on in a bar as people get drunker. Most people don’t realize they begin to act like idiots after only 2-3 drinks, lol. It actually gets quite boring… But nice FR on the missus. And I still think you are banging some of those Tomassi-9s, just sayin’. I hope you are and continue to keep it on the down-low! Cannot possibly keep up on the convo here lately. I’ve been crashing and burning gamewise, but the rest of my life… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi1K_lOJMs8

“I’d just rather die if I don’t get it”…

Now that is doing the hard work…

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

The Disciple: Master! My mind is not at ease. Help me.
The Master: No problemo. Give me your mind.

If the question of ego, “who am I? And for that matter, what is this “I” that asks,” were subject to simple solution, philosophy would have reduced it to a syllogism no later than 2500 years ago.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

The function of a koan is to phrase a question in a way that cannot be solved by reducing it to a syllogism.

The function of a master is to pose the question, and then to induce a state in the disciple where he would rather die than not get it.

newlyaloof
7 years ago

@Rollo, cool FR, man. Let me drop my own. Not too concerned if marriage fails or not. Last few months, it’s like a switch went off in my head that I didn’t want to bang wife any longer, which is hard to do with a huge sex drive. In the past, I’ve been unable to stop myself from getting horny to the point that I would approach wife. Not any longer. So she dissed me one night in front of my kids, so I told them to get up stairs and let the wife have it. Told her I, too,… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ Rollo I would say it undoubtedly counts as a FR. And one take home lesson for everyone is that holding Frame from the beginning to the end, at all times, is absolutely essential. I immediately thought of my friend who went through a divorce. Previous high value guy with tons of options. She didn’t like him going out and playing bar gigs and hanging out around other women, or even being in venues where she thought women might pursue him. Instead of carrying on and playing on dread and all the dynamics you just mentioned, what did he do?… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Newly

Great FR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7tyhpWiZyM

And the thing is, I still don’t care if my marriage fails or lasts. I think my wife and all the other girls at the festival know this.

Now that sounds like a Fuck You! position…

Glengarry
Glengarry
7 years ago

Regarding suicide girl: That’s a clear signal it’s time to get the hell out, wouldn’t you say? She’s manipulating you in the worst way or she needs professional help. Either way, time to go. An acquaintance who was in the same situation with a BPD having very nasty meltdowns again and again actually had his mother do breakup lol, not very brave but it worked and the BPD disappeared. So if it feels like a tough situation, break up with her in the company of a friend or family member with some authority … someone who knows what’s up and… Read more »

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

Long time reader, first time poster. Was hoping to get your opinion on marriage. I know you say don’t do it in 2016, but i do want kids/family. Background: 32yr male, great shape, doctor at university, run my own biotech company, and trust fund baby. I would say I’m an 8/10, girls have asked me out before I’ve ever talked to them. However, i was a late bloomer physically (mid-twenties), so my N count is not as high (14) as it could be. My game is ok. The girl i am dating now (4.5years) i picked up at a bar… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Southern Dude

It’s not so much about the girl as it is about you

comment image

What kind of lion tamer are YOU?

NALTALT

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ newlyaloof — Later when we get home, I purposefully hit the button to check emails. I always do this now, but I used to turn the ringer off in case some girls call and I would get worried and “get busted” lol. So, my chime goes off always now. Wife immediately asks, “So, who’s texting you at 1 in the morning?” I said, “That girl from the festival.” — Didn’t see your post before I made mine. This is another perfect example in line with the nature of Rollo’s FR. Thanks for sharing that one. “And the thing is,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Softek

“Take home message here is Alpha is a mindset.”

A mindset displayed by acting dynamic, passionate and authentic.

“Living uncompromisingly in your own reality, in your own Frame, is the true prize, the true goal. ”

Have you heard about The Platinum Rule?

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@Southern Dude

Besides sex what does she do for you, such as cook?

Does she spend any of her time with children?

Is she lazy?

Will she be able to stop drinking completely for a few years?

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

@Sentient
What do you mean “is it about me?”

Unfortunately she does not cook. She does come over and clean my condo now and again. She does not spend any time with children, don’t know if that means anything. She is not lazy, she worked through college and some in high school, she is good at her job. Not sure if she can stop drinking, she usually has one drink a night, but we don’t get drunk often, maybe once every couple months.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

Blending a couple of topics, I find I hardly want to drink anymore, as when I do it activates ego, and I now find that truely annoying, sorry about that Rollo

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Southern Dude

“What do you mean “is it about me?””

I mean are you your own MPO? Do you think that the externalities you listed are the best defense to hypergamy?

Are you leading her? Is she submitting?

How are your lion wrangling skills?

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Have you heard about The Platinum Rule?” Her: You’re dangerous, aren’t you? Me: Not at all. There are some people who think I’m dangerous, because I make my own decisions, which makes them nervous. The reason I don’t kill them is because I don’t want to. If wanted to I would. But I don’t, so I’m perfectly safe. The problem isn’t my danger, it’s their nerves. In actuality, they are the ones who are dangerous. They are projecting the fact that the only reason they don’t kill someone is because they feel outside restraint and assume that without restraint I… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Rugby

I get a distinct… errmmmm No thanks to the sleepover vibe from that cat…

comment image

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

KFG…. awesome.

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago

Sentient
Was shooting arrows with a vet yesterday. We where talking about red pill stuff in person. He mentioned soldiers who take their own lives live with stress that isn’t stated in their job. Random attacks unlike constant attacks we brought up mediation and solitude and silence in building yourself in a ate ate of maturity.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Softek I was also thinking of your comment about getting out of the house…and as I’m driving over there, I just started laughing. Like thinking about logging on here and posting “Yeah man, you know, I could’ve gone over this cool hot girl’s house and had a good time, but I decided to just go to the woods instead and start a leaf collection.” Ya, a great opportunity showed up – better than I imagined would. That’s excellent. That said if that chance hadn’t happened it STILL would have been much better to start a leaf collection than staying in.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Newly Aloof This is a rough time for ya, but it does sound like you’re getting it. Sex is the ground bare minimum of man/woman interaction. If you get that in place – and you’re having to do it from a place where tons of nasty emotions are necessary to establish frame – then there is hope. You can move on, and you know it. But there is also some hope for the current relationship – love is an emotion that can develop from sexual attraction. I can see why there is none now. But that can change. As I… Read more »

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

Good question @Sentient. I do what I need to accomplish my vision, and she is coming along for the ride. There is some give and take, but I think thats normal in any relationship.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

PS – the final scene in The Gambler… the song is Outro by M83. The lyrics are:

I’m the king of my own land
Facing tempests of dust, I’ll fight until the end
Creatures of my dreams raise up and dance with me!
Now and forever, I’m your king!

such a good movie.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Southern Dude

I do what I need to accomplish my vision, and she is coming along for the ride.

As long as she knows this, how she fits and her role… you are making a very good start.

The first part of the story here is the same “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

However: no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force.

comment image

So stay prepared, remember how the story ends!

newlyaloof
7 years ago

@Sentient, I’ll have to see that movie now.
@Softek, yes, not needing anybody else but yourself is better than getting laid because when you don’t need anybody else, you end up getting laid anyhow.
@Forge, thanks man. Wise words as always from you.

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“I’d just rather die if I don’t get it”…

“The function of a master is to pose the question, and then to induce a state in the disciple where he would rather die than not get it.”

Whalberg’s speech there is exactly how I feel. I want everything. I even want the work.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

comment image

Andy –

I want everything. I even want the work.

Welcome…!

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Rollo

Good to read an FR from you.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Sentient to Southern Dude Southern Dude However: “no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force”. Moltke was a professional but wordy. “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth” – Mike Tyson So. Southern Dude. How will you handle it when she betrays some trust, when she goes back on an agreement, cheats on you with some other Southern dude, when she starts turning bitchy for seemingly no reason? I.E. when she “punches you in the mouth” girl style? Having some general principles like Moltke taught to his… Read more »

Klem
Klem
7 years ago

@Southern Dude?

Why marry her?
Why not continue being with her without the mariage part?

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Way back to the original posting: Rollo, the canard “Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of committment” surely was closer to reality when men were the gatekeepers of resources. When married men got open preference in employment, they surely got an automatic bump in the SMP by being the bacon-bringers. That’s why Provider Game worked, because the alternative was (a) lower in social status (b) lower quality lifestyle. Spinsters were to be pitied, and taken out to lunch once in a while, not in the Girl’s Day Out sense so much as “the poor dear hasn’t… Read more »

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

I don’t think she is an angel, just trying to hedge my bets with a future partner. As a scientist, I view everything as a probability. She does shit test me a couple times a month, but I have been handling them pretty well. Thanks for the input guys.

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

I am old school a bit, i view marriage as necessary for the continuation of western civilization. Probably a topic for another board.

newlyaloof
7 years ago

@Southern dude, get your mind right about possibly loosing half your shit. If you can get to the point where you genuinely wouldn’t care if you lost have your shit, then you are mentally ready for that potential. I know doctors are attached to status and money, so that may be hard for you, but take it from a dude that is going through a rough time. Loosing half my shit was a major reason why I put up with a ton of shit over the years. Now that I don’t care, I feel great. My frame is my house.… Read more »

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

How good are pre-nups? I would rather not give away my inheritance or my company.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

“Now that I don’t care, I feel great. ”

Ding ding ding! Winna

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” Loosing half my shit was a major reason why I put up with a ton of shit over the years.” Several years ago I found myself facing a man in a fluro yellow vest, pounding on my door and yelling about how my house was about to get hit by a 28 foot high wall of water and that I needed to evacuate, NOW! Faced with the prospect of losing everything and having to start over I felt . . . liberated. You can think of it as “having” to start over, or “getting” to start over. On the… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

Well, I guess I’ll write up a FR. This one has a bit to do with gatekeeper/keymaster dynamics, and even more to do with setting frame. It’s also the most vivid snapshot of a wild hamster I’ve yet been able to capture. So it seems FWB is getting serious enough with betaboy that she’s trying to resolve, firmly, to not have any extracurricular anatomy lab if you catch my drift. She tried. She really did. When I texted her if she wanted to hang out after I escaped from an office beach day hanging with co-worker babes cause I didn’t… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“How good are pre-nups?”

Anywhere from utterly pointless to not very good at all, depending on your legal jurisdiction and whatever judge you happen to draw.

Get a divorce lawyer now to advise you on how best to protect your assets then.

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

Yea i was planning on checking in with a lawyer at some point in the near future.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Yea i was planning on checking in with a lawyer . . .” I assumed that from the idea of the prenup. The point was to make sure you have a lawyer who actually handles divorces in your local courts. What the law says on paper, and what the law is at the bench and in chambers, are often two different things and you want a lawyer who knows what actually happens. If you move jurisdictions somewhere along the line, whole new ball game. And of course no man’s money or person is safe while the legislature is in session.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Additional long term strategy: research all the local divorce lawyers and make a list of the ones you do not want to represent your wife.

Have sufficient consultation with each of them to create a professional conflict of interest should your wife approach them.

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

Thats a good idea, weed out the good ones

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

I have a coworker that is in the process of going through a divorce right now. I listen to him while he laments the turn of events. I don’t mind this because he is indeed looking at losing quite a bit, and paying quite a bit of child support ( 2 sons, one is a special need child ). He owns about 8 or 9 properties, all but 2 still have underwater mortgages. All of the properties still produce a modest amount of income for him. Before coming to work at my company, he was unemployed for over 2 years… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“The divorce lawyer his wife hired is sharpening his cutlery.”

There’s an old law school joke: If a town has one lawyer, he rides a bicycle. If it has two lawyers, they both drive a Mercedes.

Varangian
Varangian
7 years ago

“Key openers” is the point to take away here. Hypergamy, recklessness, hamsters, all that aside, women are simple beings and for those that know the gears and game, there is a large disposal of tools to make the gears run your way. Don’t be afraid to settle down with a 7+ woman, hypergamy will be there but you will know how to deal with it. As said above, just remember that committment means nothing, and not to relax your prowess at any point. The sofa man is a dumped man. The leading father, however, built civilization. The cost of settling,… Read more »

ETA
ETA
7 years ago

Random thoughts I feel like writing down on here: While watching the show Suits I noticed that the secretary Donna who works for Harvey(Alpha lawyer) is clearly an Alpha widow. She had her affair with him, and is still sticking around knowing she can never have him. I’ve asked myself before, why is that a young man’s heartbreak is often the catalyst of great change for him, turning his life around to become an Alpha, while a girl’s break up with an Alpha often times turns her into an Alpha widow leaving her scarred and blocking her from creating any… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

So Forge… What are you saying you had ED?

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ ETA ” I’ve asked myself before, why is that a young man’s heartbreak is often the catalyst of great change for him, turning his life around to become an Alpha, while a girl’s break up with an Alpha often times turns her into an Alpha widow leaving her scarred and blocking her from creating any meaningful relationships in the future. Why doesn’t the same thing happen to her? Why doesn’t she turn into a feminine loving, loyal and caring woman…you know, things that keep a man around? Both of them experience Red Pill truths, the difference is that the… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

Field Report tl;dr 3 girls were lit up around me; 2 of them were drunk; 1 belonged to a friend of mine (HB6) and I never even danced with her; 1 (HB7) projected her desire onto a woman in her group who was an “appropriate” age; 1 was married (HB7); absence makes the heart grow fonder; we see evidence of women becoming interested in a man simply because one or more other women indicate interest; we must not fool ourselves about women’s interest The “Projector” was early 20s and I had just met her that night. After dancing with me… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
7 years ago
Reply to  theasdgamer

Kfg
“Additional long term strategy: research all the local divorce lawyers and make a list of the ones you do not want to represent your wife.

Have sufficient consultation with each of them to create a professional conflict of interest should your wife approach them.”
Hilariously affective

Blaximus
Thank you for the story.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ AR ” Rollo, the canard “Women are the gatekeepers of sex, men are the gatekeepers of committment” surely was closer to reality when men were the gatekeepers of resources. When married men got open preference in employment, they surely got an automatic bump in the SMP by being the bacon-bringers. That’s why Provider Game worked, because the alternative was (a) lower in social status (b) lower quality lifestyle. Spinsters were to be pitied, and taken out to lunch once in a while, not in the Girl’s Day Out sense so much as “the poor dear hasn’t got a man… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

@blax

“Men may think about such things, but I’d put forth that most men, betas if you will, are not even aware of smv.”

I’ve been hearing the phrase “out of his/her league” since I can remember. Most men may not have such an in depth, analytical awareness as TRM, but clearly they know their relative value in the smp.

Maybe more importantly, most men don’t realize that, unlike women, there’s a LOT they can do to improve that value.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ rugby11

You got it man.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ othergrain Yeah, I heard a lot or phrases and shit too in my life. I would love to see men become bulletproof to random judgments. It only matters in your head. No one is out of anyone’s league unless we’re talking about sports of some type. That stuff, it’s a screening tactic man. Lol. Every guy that hears such nonsense, and turns away feeling unworthy, has just screened himself out. But we are on the same wavelength here- ” Maybe more importantly, most men don’t realize that, unlike women, there’s a LOT they can do to improve that value.”… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

^^^ Er.. I mean no one is outta my league…

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Thanks Rollo!!!!

@ othergrain- what Rollo said. In 2012. Lmao…..

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . the nightly comment slow down ( everybody eatin’ dinner…lol ). . .” Not quite yet. Just popped out for half a gross of eggs – I was on foot and my shoulder bag won’t fit a gross. So I walk up to the counter and the girl says, “You know, every time you come in here in that outfit (WWII era Aussie desert rat, contemporary “operator’s” bag) buying all these eggs I imagine you hunting with a 12 foot monitor lizard you have to keep fed.” Told her I figured on sticking to hunting with dogs… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ kfg

*sniffle* Brought a tear to my eye.

So I guess you could say ..” I laughed!! I cried!!! I applied for future leopard licenses!!! ”

Banter doesn’t have to be banal.

Rule #3 is the greatest. I might just get that tattooed across my back. I’d go to Komodo to do it, and pick up a dragon while I’m there. Pffftttt…wait until the Pitbull crowd gets a load of me.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Southern dude Blaximus just reminded me of something muy importante. This woman that you are pondering – how much debt is she carrying? Not just credit card / car loan debt, but all debt. First of all, it tells you how she is with money, and although it’s getting pretty rare there are still girls out there that can be reasonably thrifty. You need to know what she’s capable of. Some women come nowadays with a negative dowry – $20,000 or more in student loan debt. You should be aware that student loan debt is the most weighty debt of… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

@kfg
You asked for it.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

Ok, Blaximus. I can’t figure out whether I’m compelled to cut-and-paste Deida shit, because it pisses other guys off here, or because it resonates with guys like you. Maybe more importantly, most men don’t realize that, unlike women, there’s a LOT they can do to improve that value.” Aaannndddd the first step in any improvement a man should make is the MENTAL one. If a guy approaches *GASP* a woman that is out of his league, what’s the worse that can happen? Will she set him on fire ISIS style? Now, what’s the worst thing that can happen if a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

If I’m wearing a T-shirt (I prefer button down, but it happens) it either says, “I felt like wearing black today,” or, “I felt like wearing red today.”

I don’t even wear bumper stickers on my bumper.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“I don’t even wear bumper stickers on my bumper.”

http://i3.cpcache.com/product/842596241/i_saw_that_sticker.jpg

Southern dude
Southern dude
7 years ago

Thanks for the response, perhaps i need more experience before starting this kind of relationship. I saw someone was asking about debt, she doesn’t have any, scholarship for college paid most of it, and parents did the rest.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Sentient

Ya. Seems to be my Achilles heel lol. I tend to recover fast but it’s a nuisance. Whatyado.

I mean, maybe it’s some psych or physical thing I haven’t figured out yet. I’ll keep my eyes open but for now I just don’t let it bother me. I get that it’s a DLV but a girl’s still lucky to get what I give lol.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Blax “Learning to seduce chicks takes away the keeper of sex power. Women don’t really want responsibility like that. They will grasp it, and pretend to relish it, but they’d love to be shown how they can relinquish it.” Yes. Just observe the FR I just dropped; here’s a girl that ostensibly loves mastery over her circumstances. Yet she has the most fun she’s had in WEEKS when I just kinda hijack her narrative. Women are stingy with sex if you let them have power over it. They reflexively dole it out sparingly. But they don’t WANT to; girls like… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@kfg Excellent. Even I’M curious what the hell you need a half gross of eggs for. What are you, Gaston? http://youtu.be/VuJTqmpBnI0 Rollo’s relevant essay is ‘Have a Look.’ But I don’t see it much explored here. Y’all middle aged dudes trying to pick up younger women; are you doing so dressed like this? http://cf.ltkcdn.net/mens-fashion/images/std/160915-267×400-Man-wearing-business-casual-attire.jpg Cause if so you’re background noise. That dude is young and still NO ONE CARES about him at first glance because that’s just a drone. NO ONE CAN TELL if that dress shirt is Etro or Armani and even if they do its maybe good for… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

It can be any look. Hell, I’ve heard Scribb say he’s going for an ‘aging rock star’ vibe before. Let’s look at an aging Bono totally shill out to a big corporation. I bet he’s wearing a black suit to show how seriously he takes the product launch.

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/09/bono_steve_jobs_u2_ipod.jpg

O wait

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

Oh hi girl. Not sure what merited your pride, but I assure you it is warranted 😉 You’ve had differences with the ‘age doesn’t matter for men’ crowd in the past. But I’d contend they’re largely correct. It’s just that men tend to abandon interesting-ness as they get older, as they have more laurels they think they can rest on. BE INTERESTING in more than your head and a lot of difficulties with girls disappear. You only need to, past that, be sure you are VISIBLE to them. Visuals are just one (easy) way to do that. This is totally… Read more »

Colbert
Colbert
7 years ago

,

“Be happy like Blaximus. Or realistically transcendental like KFG. Do it before you go out and game women, up your relationship game or go buy eggs.”

Or you can choose the “third stage option” and habitually stare at your navel like SJF does – enjoy those eggs bro.

YaReally
7 years ago

Just ran across (yet another) shitload of red pill guys reporting from the field confirming what I’ve been saying about the diff between <25yo crowd now VS even 5-10 years ago before social media picked up full steam: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/504o6e/unbelievable_arrogance_in_todays_20year_old_girls/ So many "I thought I was the only one who noticed this"s in there, and the only real solution anyone has is "just don't get into LTRs anymore", because no one has a way to realistically navigate 2016 culture to keep this next gen of social media culture chicks around for 10+ years to have kids with. Which goes back to… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“Just ran across (yet another) shitload of red pill guys reporting from the field confirming what I’ve been saying about the diff between <25yo crowd now VS even 5-10 years ago before social media picked up full steam:"

Terrifying. Is it even enjoyable to hang with these girls?

Klem
Klem
7 years ago

@yareally Yep, as I said time to let go of the security of an LTR, and embrace the constant change and uncertainty! I think that in the future, some kind of soft poly relationship will be the norm. Like, people in advanced societies own less and less stuff : they consume stuff if/when they need it. No car/summer house/DVDs, but Uber/Airbnb/Netflix. I feel like it’s going to be the same for relationships : you won’t “secure” a particular girl, but have an array of girls to choose from, depending on your particular wants/needs at the time. Hot chicks and “secret… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ YaReally,

Lol, Drake is a beta superhero. He’s notorious for it. He has been chasing Riri for years. He took a break and chased Nikki Minaj for a minute, then he went after a well-known hoe stripper Jhoni Blaze, who claimed he got her pregnant..lol. good thing he has money and fame.

He should stick to boning fans.

Personally, I’d leave Rihanna’s pussy smoking. For a fee, I’d be happy to teach the boy how to take wild Trinidadian chicks. He’s 0 for 2.

Long live Chris Brown. LMMFAO.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Pro tip- just like ” leagues” , secret society is yet another filter. There’s nothing one dude can know that another can not.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“I’M curious what the hell you need a half gross of eggs for.” A man’s gotta eat somethin’ and I don’t load up on starch. 2 dozen eggs a day covers my basal metabolic calories, basic protein, B12 and the better part of D and E – all at the most reasonable price. And I happen to live down the street from a dairy outlet that gets all of its eggs from a single, local family farm. If I go about a mile out of town I can get them directly from a free range farmer. One of the advantages… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Emmy’s on the hunt.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

Following on my previous comment–my field report–I didn’t even flirt with the girls who were lit up. I didn’t play with their emotions with glib, clever, sexual convo. It was all my standard nonverbal frame of a dance instructor that lit them up along with some preselection. I didn’t sexualize and wasn’t thinking about the girls’ sexual attractiveness–I was focused on instructing them, making them feel comfortable, being socially appropriate, etc.

A key lesson in this is that if you can demonstrate social power and status, that is inherently sexually attractive to girls and can light them up.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@asd

how do you know this is “sexually attractive” without banging them?

YaReally
7 years ago

@Andy “Terrifying. Is it even enjoyable to hang with these girls?” Depends on what you’re looking for from them. I love being around <25yo hotties, but I'm not looking for a dog that can do my taxes for me lol @Klem "I feel like it’s going to be the same for relationships : you won’t “secure” a particular girl, but have an array of girls to choose from, depending on your particular wants/needs at the time." lol that's basically how girls are treating the Tinder/social media stuff. "I want you now, in this moment, and if you aren't up for… Read more »

780
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x

Discover more from

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading