Recently, I’ve been very busy with more than a few business projects. ‘Success Coaches’ always tell you to develop passive forms of income in addition to whatever it is you consider your vocation, but I have an odd habit of turning my past “vocations” into passive forms of income as I move on to my next project.
Then I’ve had the audiobook of The Rational Male as a front-burner project for my leisure time along with doing re-edits of the first printed book (new, better-edited, bigger font edition coming soon) and then there’s the first draft of the third book I’m picking away at.
In between all of that I’ve been doing my best to stay on top of the comment threads for the essays I’m writing. Among these, for the past 6 or 7 months has been the saga of a commenter who goes by Softek. While I haven’t been able to keep abreast of all his comments and the exceptional advice of fellow Rational readers, I’m going to take a moment now to address his situation because it serves as an example, and perhaps a warning, to Red Pill aware men who come into a new awakened understanding of intergender dynamics and fall prey to some of the pitfalls inherent in unplugging themselves from their prior illusions.
I’ve followed Softek’s unplugging and his increased confidence from a thoroughly Blue Pill conditioned guy to something approaching Alpha confidence. Whether this is beginning to stick and becoming an internalized part of who Softek is as a man, I’ll let him say, but recently he’s been dealing with some of the fallout that comes from being caught up in what I went through in Dream Girls and Children with Dynamite.
Another very common occurrence is the “reformed” AFC who makes progress toward becoming more Game savvy, and as a result gets his “dream girl”, only to lose her after reverting back into an AFC frame once he’s in an LTR with her. I’m not a big Ross Jefferies fan, but he did say something very profound once, he said “teaching PUA skills to these chumps is like giving dynamite to children.” This is probably truer than he realized, because the potential for disaster is much higher. Most guys want that silver bullet, the magic formula that will get them the girl, but it does nothing to prepare them for the idyllic LTR their beta nature has fantasized about for so very long. They don’t become Men, they become children with dynamite. So are we really surprised when the guy who finally gets his Dream Girl as a result of learning Game becomes despondent and suicidal when he loses the “best thing he’ll ever have” when she leaves him? Are we shocked when his ONEitis turns out to be a BPD girl and his life’s ambitions fall into a death-spiral because he was unprepared to deal with a post-Game LTR?
Now, I’m not suggesting that Softek is despondent or suicidal in his present position. In fact, likely not because he’s got a base of support on this blog and in the manosphere at large to coach him through it. I’ll let him outline his situation in the comment thread for this post, however, Softek’s situation of getting wrapped up in a yo-yo clingy BPD relationship reminded me of a story I’m not very proud to relate, but in the interests of other guys in a similar situation I’ll explain it.
The Price of a BPD
Towards the end of my relationship with my own BPD there came a point when I attempted to make it work with her as a long distance relationship (LDR). This was really the last nail in the coffin for us. I knew damn well she was ‘cheating’ on me while I blithely convinced myself I would eventually get her to move another state away to join me so I could continue wallowing in her neurotic psychological abuse of me.
I’m happy to say that never happened, but it came at a cost. At one point during the LDR I had to make a decision in order to find a way to drive over a state to see her college graduation. I’d already had my (correct) suspicions she was fucking a guy from one of her classes, but I wasn’t entirely sure. You’ve got to understand that as a BPD she’d already had me ‘converted’ to accept her frame as the dominant one. And as pathetic as it’ll sound, I was still her thrall and blamed myself for her neurosis even as I lived 800 miles away.
People love to cast me as some life-long Alpha, but I’ve been Beta, a natural Alpha, and during this period of my life I was approaching Omega (by Vox’s definitions). If there’s a bright side, it was that the bit I’m about to relate to you was the catalyst in my turning my life around to be a ‘lesser Alpha’ in a permanent way.
I had already been brought low. In her neurotic jealousy, she insisted that I toss out a photo album of all the times I’d been on stage in my Hollywood days and essentially destroy the memories of friends and events I had archived of that time. It was like losing part of my soul, but I did so because I thought she was right; I was convinced anything that came before her that I’d done was the source of her distempers.
You might think that was bad, but in order for me to go to her graduation – the time she intentionally had me discover her fucking this guy – I had to pay for that horrible experience by selling off two very expensive guitars. I won’t tell you the brand, but they were a 12 and a 6 string acoustic that was priceless to me. Even the guy I sold them to asked me if I was sure I wanted to part with them, he could tell I didn’t.
But I did sell them, for $800. Now they’d be worth around $4,000, but it’s not the dollar value I regret the most, it was voluntarily cutting off a limb from myself for the privilege of learning exactly how fucked up this person was. The only time I’ve ever snapped with Mrs. Tomassi was her casually suggesting I might sell off a guitar from my present collection. She knew there was something more to it and I’ve never silenced her with more seriousness.
I have one post outlining Borderline Personality Disorder and I feel like it’s all I really needed to post about it. There was a time in my life when I was completely in the dark about anything like it, so when I first discovered it in the DSM while studying psych it literally sent chills down my spine.
After this traumatic experience, I came to realize that while all the women I’d been convinced and conditioned to believe were my duty to be supportive of were banging other men and earning degrees, my life was paralyzed. Now, in hindsight, I can see that my beating myself up over being stalled in life because of my Blue Pill conditioning was misplaced. ONEitis will do that to you, but when you combine it with a BPD it takes a trauma to wake you up – either that or you swallow a bullet or put a rope around your neck.
On the BPD comment thread, there’s a sobering account of another man’s experience with a BPD woman. I’ll quote it here, but virtually every experience I’ve had men relate to me about a BPD is a frighteningly similar story.
From Hugh:
So, to start, I discovered that my ex was having an affair, revolving around a “church based canoe group”. Initially, I began questioning and blaming myself, telling her that we needed to work it out. I spoke to a professional seeking support and answers, who somehow got her in to see him.
He reported to me that he diagnosed her with Borderline Personality Disorder, and that I had some major choices to make, as she rejected his diagnosis and any thought of treatment. He advised that she would never change without help, and that what she did had little to do with me or the children – it was all about her.
I initially failed to understand, and tried to reconcile. Over the next few months she promised to try, and even started going to church.
But, little-by-little she revealed how this had begun, first with lesbian affairs with coworkers, then eventually, when I bought her a new car, but declined to take a car maintenance class with her – she slept with the mechanic giving the class. I learned of more in rapid succession, of affairs, one night stands, and worse over a 7 year period. She was in the medical field and used the cover of being on call,being in surgery, working extra for a dentist, going to medical conferences, etc, etc.(I could comment on my opinion of medical morals, but ’nuff said) I recalled an occasion when I got overwhelmingly sleepy after consuming a soft drink at a movie with the ex. I realize now that she drugged me. She also infected me twice with STDs, telling me she had a yeast infection. She put antibiotic in my food unknown to me. My children later reported to me, when asked, that whoever I was out of town, the ex was “always” gone to the hospital at night “on call”.
The gross details aren’t necessary, but the revelations shook me back to reality. (disgusting, degrading, and sick are better terms even than gross)
She began trying to convince me to sell our house and move. Now awake, I realized that she wanted her share and would dump the children on the street and force a move to a new neighborhood. I had recently pulled her off the chest of our 11 year old son when she tried to strangle him for begging her not to leave him – so I wasn’t exactly fooled by her house sale drive. I resolved that my children needed to have the support of friends and family, and not be moved out of their home and away from friends. How I would do this came to me eventually – wait long enough and she would find another prince, but couldn’t hide it easily, and would have to leave.
I had been contacted by the wife of her latest affair, a physician whom she had recommended me to for minor surgery.(Roll that around for a second). She and I had quite a conversation, during which I learned that he had “done this before with his office nurse, and she had attempted suicide when he dumped her – possibly for my wife”. I advised her to seek professional medical and legal council, but also delivered an explicit warning concerning what I would do if I ever saw her husband in public.
The next day the ex came home late from work, crying and just glaring at me (a Thursday BTW – a favorite day for medical professionals at some hospitals to play, as it offers the cover for some surgeons who “have surgery that day”.) The next day, after meeting with her surgeon friend again, she proceeded to drive her car right in front of an oncoming truck, suffering broken ribs. I rushed to the hospital, told she was being X-rayed and that I should go to the room she was assigned. I did so and in rearranging the pillows on the bed, found a hand written note from a “friend” indicating they would be by later. I didn’t stay long after she got to the room.
Well, we bought her a new truck, and about 3 weeks later, she called to inform me that she was taking our motor home on a canoe trip that afternoon, and when she returned, she was “leaving the family”. She asked our teenaged daughter to drop her off, and my daughter called me, appalled, that the canoe trip was my ex and 4 men. My daughter said she threw gravel “all over them” with her rapid departure.
She never said anything to the children, but shortly after informed me that she was leaving that afternoon. She got friends to help her move and was gone when my dad and I returned from picking up the kids at school golf team practice.
The judge at the divorce hearing classified her as having abandoned the family and offered to impose child support payments on her – which I declined, in an attempt to cut all ties.
That was 31 years ago, and we had absolutely no contact with her until Dec 24, when a scribbled note, from some tiny town in East Texas arrived, stating that she had breast cancer, and I should take “appropriate measures concerning the children”.
I can’t imagine that she thinks any of us care!
So, that’s my early life’s scary story – though I left the horror story parts out!
Be safe, there are really monsters in the world!
Hugh
P S – My 2 older children are college educated,very successful professional people with families and children. I remarried a spectacular woman a few years after, the true savior of our lives, and have a third child, who is a Nurse Practitioner, and who also has 2 children.(I have advised her about morals in the medical field particularly).
Softek, the reason I’m dedicating an entire post (and hopefully an on-topic comment thread) about this is because, in my estimate, you’re in both a more precarious, yet potentially more hopeful, position than guys who’ve dealt with what you are now. My concern is that your Red Pill awareness and basic Game skills have brought you a dangerous woman. It’s the kids with dynamite dynamic I’m seeing unfold.
The good news is you have a solid community of men ready to help you with this, most of whom have some experience with toxic women. I’ve seen too many men learn Game or adopt an abundance frame, but still cling to the hope that they can fulfill a Blue Pill ideal with their Red Pill awareness. Women like the one you’re involved with will believe your Alpha frame, but when you shift or backslide into Blue Pill idealism they’re either disgusted with a man, or they see him as potential prey – and often are oblivious to their own interpretations of why they do.
I’d like to open up the commentary here for men to relate their experiences of dealing with BPD women and/or offer something for Softek. I realize there are a lot of well-meaning guys who think that BPD is overestimated in the ‘sphere, and while I can appreciate that, I think it speaks volumes that women can so regularly be confused with the signs of BPD today as to make that estimate. For my outline have a read of Borderline Personality Disorder first.
phew another great weekend @blax ‘The case of boning multiple women is a case of something that no longer appeals to me. I don’t want to do it. Nothing, in this case, has faded.’ lots of apparent contradictions here. you admit up above that you have the desire to fuck multiple women and just say it’s about mastery. now you say you don’t have the desire and that nothing has faded ‘As I’ve mentioned to scray, I don’t know if it is possible to explain to a man why discipline, self or otherwise is a good thing for a man… Read more »
@em on that reddit thread you discussed the ‘but women lie on surveys’ counter-argument but failed to respond to the direct evidence that indeed, that is the case. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/genderster.htm http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/sexsurv.htm and this study on #sex partners of men and women of all types suggests median sex partner counts that are very close to one another. plus, using the female messaging curve is also lulzy. females only APPROACHING men who they find similar in attractiveness makes sense in the context of a dating site where most women are looking for an LTR; is there any data on the behavior of women… Read more »
Great explication of the difference between an alpha male and beta male without using any of those terms.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLnrx6mbcSo&w=560&h=315%5D
@scribb that guy has a piece of it, but…. Chris Evans is very classically handsome and high value, and so, most of his ‘game’ is more chill. Chris Hemsworth is similar. So is Brad Pitt. Passively, they’ve won the game so they focus on giving value to others (which is actually very cool) RDJ is less so and most of his value comes from his active ‘game’ (not unlike Russell Brand), which is why you see a total difference. like, the cool thing is seeing them interact, because it’s actually alphas pinging off one another. both have strong frames. like… Read more »
“…the problem is that the shit SJF and Blax says ends up getting repeated by a dude who needs LEGIT help, like softek.”
Scray, I totally agree with this statement and said so earlier in my comments. What he should work on after mental health and profession skills is pua game.
As to the sjf blax conversation, your debate skills are rife with adolescent logical fallacies even though you can’t see them. So don’t tell us how we feel or think logically at our station in life.
@Em – Seriously, you lurk around here as much as you do and don’t know what hypergamy is? How in the fuck does that happen? Hypergamy is the reality that women have a “dualistic mating strategy” based on conflicting impulses. On the one hand, they want the good provider and Dad and man who they are “the prize” for, but on the other, they want the Alpha dog who gives them tingles. This isn’t bad but what women and the FI have conspired to do is conceal this from most men. Most of us buy into the “good guy” myth,… Read more »
@Scray – Ya, I get it. I just thought it was an interesting take and analysis. What he does nail is the social status aspect of their behavior. He’s not talking specifically about pickup but rather social status more broadly and I think when you isolate the conversation on just social status, you see that Downey projects much higher social status with his interactions.
@SJF
Feel free to point out any of these fallacies, but lol I’m not taking your word for it. Show me some pudding.
@scribblerg
Game is all about social status….that’s what all the behaviors are demonstrating. Specifically it’s the portion of social status controlled by your individual behaviors in a given moment. That’s why other portions….like situational alphaness based on prestige or w.e. interact with it.
RDJ and Chris Evans are both projecting high social status….and the diff trades off.
RDJ, CE, Brand, even Jerry on Seinfeld are all projecting high social status with their behaviors.
Dudes that are super nice like Evans are ppl that guys with a more cocky vibe especially have to be wary of.
Hemsworth and Evans are 1%ers in soft, pretty boy good looks.
Brand is a 1%er in masculine good looks, and now that he’s started living on food and iron he looks more like a Thor than Thor.
This is the guy I want at my right hand in battle:
Not this guy:
Hypergamy is the reality that women have a “dualistic mating strategy” based on conflicting impulses. On the one hand, they want the good provider and Dad and man who they are “the prize” for, but on the other, they want the Alpha dog who gives them tingles.
On the r/TheRedPill this weekend there was a somewhat popular post where some guy developed the theory, by using opinion as fact, that the goal is to be an “alpha provider”, and if you become one you will generate alpha widows.
Scray,
Sorry I can’t debate right now as I’m out at my farm (that I don’t want to lose in a divorce) transplanting persimmon and chestnut trees. The rural cell phone signal is so weak I actually have to climb up into a deer-hunting tree stand to post a comment.
YaReally Sentient HABD Wala and gang Quick FR – 33 year old HB6 from online dating first date. Solidly provider hunting. Didn’t go well. Did my usual sexualizing thing, told her sexy ass, stroked ass in first 5 min, pulled her in for a hug when she went shake hands. Good compliance will all of the above. But for various logistical reasons didn’t go to my usual venues. Was hard to get kino or even do much laser and cutting distance (had solid EC, but just cutting distance hard). I did (once in each venue) tell her to move so… Read more »
Hey Scray – you said: “blue pill all the way and it’s a page right out of the ‘self-discipline for its own sake’ handbook.” Interesting. I think your sentiment here indicates a certain nuance wrt your definition of bluepill. I am hoping you will explicate on that. For instance – I am wondering – is the reason you think the attitude of: “Sometimes you want to give up the guitar, you’ll hate the guitar. But if you stick with it, you’re gonna be rewarded.” Again, not as an endorsement of monogamy, or excuses to stay in an unhealthy relationship. This… Read more »
Rollo- another exceptional post! I’m mostly a lurker with an occasional thought… primarily because it takes me days to get through the comments and I always seem to be a post behind … also the looks v subcomms debate on the last thread took me forever to slog-through :). Between this post and comments (points for whoever put up the Pacino scene), I’m having a moment of self-realization that “I’m the lemon”. Unlike ASD’s anti-crazy allergy, I seem to have some sort of crazy lightning rod on my ass. I’m not a therapist, but in reflection: the ex wife was… Read more »
@Stuffin – I used to go through what we are going through with Softie when I was in AA and sponsored like 40 guys over a 5 yr period of time. As an aside, I subsequently left AA after concluding alcoholism isn’t a disease among other reasons but haven’t had a drink since ’95 and barely miss it. Most people who go to AA do not get sober or maintain sobriety for long. The key ingredient for getting sober is the ability to actually change one’s behavior BEFORE one’s mindset changes. Many people “want it” but most people can’t screw… Read more »
Assume there are two different kinds of men – Alphas and Betas. Assume women have two behavior circuits. One for Alphas one for Betas. The various tests are to determine which circuit she should turn on.
In LTRs the Alpha circuits are turned on by his having another GF – real, potential, imaginary (dread). The Beta circuits are turned on by his one-itis.
All the rest is detail.
@Miss EM; quoting the bluepill reddit as a source? Really…. They are not creators or educating men just detractors and trolls.
@hank holiday That’s the greatest Day2 plan I’ve ever read lol Well done handling that shit. You can use that for every single Day2 you ever do and have a repeatable sequence of DHVs and venue changes etc. Excellent work. Now just figure out how to seed the transition to her place. Movies/music are usually the easiest topic to seed a non-ASD triggering transition, like you talk about favorite movies/music (is there a shop in that mall that sells DVDs/music etc?) and that leads to “oh I’ve never seen that, we should watch it sometime” and being able to skirt… Read more »
@Culum
33 year old HB6 from online dating first date. Solidly provider hunting.
I think you are making a mistake dating 29+ haven’t had her kids yet women. For these women anything goes to get pregnant if Google/social media/status tells indicate you can pony up. Even the ones that say they haven’t decided about kids are 99% lying. Good FR as usual.
@roy
“I push for a bounce about midnight”
The derailment occurred around here, not afterward, can you replay how it went in detail?
@Roy Hobbs “For the past 3 weeks, I have been venturing- solo- to the college side of town more. I am now on a first-name basis with like ½ dozen bartenders and am much more comfortable in that environment. I still get the “old-guy” shit tests regularly, but they bounce off much more like nerfs than bbs.” Good man. (see what I did there? I just used the RDJ “giving you my approval” thing from point 4 above lol) You’re taking action to CREATE a better sarging situation for yourself than the guy who sits at home crying that it’s… Read more »
@Roy Hobbs – great work dude, good work in set but particularly good in going out consistently and starting to get places on lockdown even if it is in the young part of town (you’re the guy who was saying something about how there’s one main drag in town with the classy bars where the middle aged types go and another main drag with all the student bars right? And you’re trying to get out of your comfort zone and go more to the student drag?) YaReally gave you everything you need – the only thing I will reiterate is… Read more »
@hank
I don’t think you PUA lol. Its just a quick kiss on the DATE. It makes a connection and builds sexual tension. You never escalate hard on a girl unless you are in a location where you can bang her. I’m not banging her at this location.
so a passionate kiss or kisses would be wrong, as it would either not make a connection or it would not build sexual tension? One never does that? Dating is so complex.
No sexual tension:
Instead:
http://orig09.deviantart.net/fdd7/f/2009/355/0/d/alice_and_hatter___quick_kiss_by_kelly_fox.jpg
PS – One thing I DO want to do online (probably when I’m back in my “downtime small town” in a little while is learn to nail Tinder – the trick seems to be presenting the right identity/tell the right “story” with my pictures and let the girls fill in the mental blanks themselves, and that seems to be much more important than having professional photos taken or whatever.. @Redlight – The issue with passionate kisses isn’t that they don’t increase sexual tension – the problem is that they DO too well. You have a massive risk of triggering ASD… Read more »
The issue with passionate kisses isn’t that they don’t increase sexual tension – the problem is that they DO too well.
okay, that makes more sense, thanks!
Technical question:
Is a passionate kiss a serious makeout, or hard escalation? I’ve always gone for the passionate kiss, but not a makeout, and it has always seemed better than a quick peck. If all I got was a quick peck I’m not investing any more time on subsequent dates.
This all seems mild compared to some of Julien’s moves.
“No sexual tension”
She didn’t like it and he didn’t get so much as a number.
@Redlight – don’t quite understand your question. By “makeout” I mean a passionate kiss with lots of tongue that leads to both people getting turned on. “Escalation” (hard or otherwise) is a process (not a specific action) of increasing contact and sexual tension and activity – touching someone on the arm is escalation, right up to P in V – kissing is just one point on the escalation ladder (which you can google – I think it was Vin Di Carlo’s escalation ladder the early PUA community used a lot). Typically for ASD purposes the advice is not to go… Read more »
“. . . there’s a very very good chance that she will resist the pull to isolation after a serious makeout or resist coming over to yours for the next date because she “knows” it will be for sex and trigger her ASD..you’ve removed her plausible deniability.”
And she doesn’t want to fuck you any more. Because you “made out” instead of fucking.
Now she wants something else from you.
@Culum Struan “I’ve been trying to apply the “calibrate after the fact” thing Julien mentions a lot (and Jeffy in one video too I think) consciously and it does really work.” Ya this is a big part of my game. I don’t need a GOOD reaction, I just want *A* reaction, and if it’s a reaction that involves shit-testing me, all the better. They love the rollercoaster ride of “I thought you were an asshole but now I realize maybe you’re not”. It also subcomms that you’re used to assuming good reactions and getting away with saying/doing stuff like that… Read more »
@Scribblerg Ditto on the sponsoring,it seems as if 80/20 applies to big life changes and making them stick. A wise and anonymous man once said the longest distance in the world is the distance between the head and the heart. Being in a relationship and changing any negative behavior causes friction as the addict feels they are giving something up for others and expects special treatment for doing what is only right and normal in the first place.It is often the spouse or friend that encouraged the change in the first place that offers or even insists on giving the… Read more »
@Ya, Culum
Thanks.
So the problem wasn’t that the goal was a quick kiss, or peck, or passionate kiss. The problem was making that the goal, or checklist item, or spanking memory (that one is strange). Instead, if I got this correctly, the goal is to build unresolved sexual tension and attraction by controlled push/pull reward/pullback just like on those chick movies, TV shows, and books, so that she has to seek resolution or forever wonder the mighthavebeen.
@Scribblerg Is alcoholism an addiction or dis-ease? most definitely,although it would seem the best way to catch it is by drinking excessively. Once the vital organs become damaged beyond repair it is a deadly disease.I can now drink a few and leave it alone,I feel that I quit in time for my body to heal and went through the necessary life changes[growing the fuck up]That I no longer need additives to relax or feel right. I feel for these young guys,growing up in the seventies was fun,womens lib the bra burners,free love.Although it was tough like the world doesn’t owe… Read more »
@YaReally I like your last breakdown of the debate and I was thinking about what the debate problem is. It is the premises. I think readers (lurkers) are on a skewed bell curve. The median is men in serial monogamy (See Rollo’s essay As Good as it Gets). On one two-standard-deviations-from-the-mean we have you and Scray’s desires. On the other two standard deviations, you got the married monogamists like Rollo, Blax and me. It is not recommended to be two standard deviations on a side of the mean, because it takes Mastery and who the fuck has that these days?… Read more »
@ scrib “Just GTFO out of the relationship and fuck other girls” is like expecting someone to run a full marathon in record time after training by jogging one lap a day for a week, and then when they get out there and collapse after a mile, telling them to fuck off because they don’t want to work hard enough and might as well just be a pussy for the rest of their life because they don’t have the drive to succeed. “Just go fuck other girls” includes rejection. I’ve gotten some pretty harsh shutdowns in the past few days… Read more »
@Softek: “Marathon comment”
Sorry, didn’t cut and paste the comment, but as a Beta working to change out of my mindset, with a family and child, dealing with a BPD wife, I can’t agree more. It takes time to make both the changes and change the environment… maybe it is different because of being in a LTR.. but there is a lot of work to do to change… and it will take time.
I think bpd girl is to men what bad boy is to girls. Softek is on his way to changing lanes. It is the job of a man to look out for his fukin ass. I think we cannot blame Em. The only issue I have had with Em is when she insults guys who tell her to face that she is a lane changer and is a sick fuk for hanging her nice boyfriend’s nuts to dry on the clothes line… We cannot blame girls for being girls. We can only accept and adjust accordingly. A girl who dates… Read more »
@Redlight, yes basically. That video clip of Julien YaReally just posted is an amazing example of it, but this has been one of my key learning points just in the last couple of months – my last half dozen dates or so I’ve been consciously cutting distance, almost going for the kiss and pulling back, or just holding and teasing the girl. The results are really good – the majority of the time the girl will come in and kiss YOU. Julien’s just applying the same principle to do a lot more. That feeling of sexual tension is addictive when… Read more »
@Ya, Culum, Hank, Em So let’s compare my approach with the other 1) Watch new Xmen movie, eat popcorn Authentic, outcome independent, zero risk of triggering ASD, not too much sexual tension, low time investment, she knows she is perfectly safe coming to my place and she needs to take steps to find out if I’m gay or asexual such as a passionate kiss 2) Star in a reality chick flick for hours Within the frame of what women want, planning, time investment, have to hide details of life and work and interests, follow script and routines, emulate other actors/artists… Read more »
Kill time.
Can’t sleep.
Take some fucking Ambien and wash it down with 8 oz of Jack.
Grab dildo and Go.Fuck.Yourself.
Night-Night….
” . . . the majority of the time the girl will come in and kiss YOU.”
There ya go.
Culum – if you are going to persist with the crutch of online 30+ women, you will need to set the lover only frame BEFORE the meet. Yes this means you will screen through more women but should result in better real life meet ups. Push your frame hard prior to meeting “well you are a bit older than girls I normally go out with… What do you have going on?” etc. aslo re Tinder – I’ve heard the action has moved to Bumble, you might want to check that out. SJF – re the 7.5 maid… that is tight… Read more »
Strongtek “I’m not running marathons yet. And if I can only run half a lap right now without getting winded, it doesn’t mean I’m not trying. Even to get that much lung capacity and endurance, I had to work hard. I’m starting from zero.” This is a false comparison. The brain does not work the same way. Note that it CAN work the same way (baby steps) but that it doesn’t HAVE TO. You can literally flip a switch and inhabit a new reality instantly. That is what happens at the culmination of all your “reps” in any event. A… Read more »
Emily is gone. She can go back to TBP and get her obriters to stroke her ego for her. Everything she’s ever posted from the first comment has either been spam, self-affirming pablum she thinks men are stupid enough to think is genuine interest, or she simply ignores the years of posted material that contradicts the revelations she thinks she’s making because TBP is happy a girl is posting amongst the white knights. I don’t have the time to hold her hand and link half a dozen posts she wont read and wont understand. She’s a troll, simple as that.… Read more »
there seems to be some magic process that when attention whore is banished another one immediately steps up to the plate
@ya i tend to view RDJ and Evans as mostly equal, even tho the ball switches back and forth. there are a lot of reasons for it… i mean, check out Evans vs RDJ dating history http://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/chris-evans http://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/robert-downey-jr on the whole, Evans seems to snag hotter chicks. really, for whatever reason, ever since I saw RDJ’s wife I’ve just been like ‘hmmmm…’ that’s probably unfair. but idk man, look at Russell Brand — > http://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/russell-brand solid. but lol the main reason is that i’ve started spending a lot of time with the literally ONE dude i kno who has strong… Read more »
@Rollo at May 26 at 8:02pm about what i figured (all things considered in your OPs and comments)…but thanks for the data point… good luck! ______ @Roy Hobbs redlight Between this post and comments (points for whoever put up the Pacino scene), I’m having a moment of self-realization that “I’m the lemon”. rethink this idea… stop the self-dispargement… unless you are intending to use it like RDJ…lol…then, props on taking the risk and trying something new…lol Am I inviting this pain onto myself over and over? ya, probably…lol… but since you read through the ‘looks’ discussion (and props on making… Read more »
got a post in mod @the man ‘is bluepill, is because the attitude belies a lack of self-awareness around the real motivation for the supposed non-endorsement of monogamy, but nevertheless an actual endorsement of monogamy, for which you may be implying said endorsement is actually motivated by a “KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR LIMITS”, for which via your subtextual read, is not being incoporated into the writer’s attitude, at a conscious level, thus providing for a psychic field where rationalization can flourish, which is what you actually think bluepill is (i.e. – bluepill = being in denial about truths about oneself, and… Read more »
I can spot BPD type women a mile off, they have a crazy look in their eyes that I cannot describe, it makes my skin crawl. I also find they’re usually the women that out of the blue just crack onto you for no reason and seem massively keen even though you’ve never met (I expect women unless they’re completely drunk, or you are accompanied by another woman, to be much more cautious and untrusting of a male stranger). The way to get rid of them is to just be your usual spergy/beta self (this largely consists of answering their… Read more »
SJF (I think it was) mentioned tolerating abuse as long as it’s not as bad as abuse we’ve faced before. Like what scrib said about “Needing more pain.” If you’re used to being treated REALLY bad, and especially when you don’t have any relationship experience and aren’t used to being treated WELL, how can you know what’s good for you and what isn’t? No matter how bad the relationship has gotten, it still hasn’t even held a candle to the hell I went through of being incel year after year. When that’s my frame of reference, how else am I… Read more »
@softek ‘SJF (I think it was) mentioned tolerating abuse as long as it’s not as bad as abuse we’ve faced before.’ ‘Softek has experienced a degree of attachment to a girl that NO OTHER MAN HERE has experienced, and cannot understand, so why would I listen to them if they have NO IDEA what ONE-itis is, and have NEVER EXPERIENCED ONE-itis for themselves, have NO IDEA what it’s like to experience scarcity, have NO IDEA what it’s like to be incel….’ lol that’s not true. i’ve experienced it. mine was probably worse than yours because i had a better handle… Read more »
Sentient – point taken about 30s online chicks. Will start qualifying them harder (actually I could do that to 20s chicks too – “You’re younger than I usually date..”).
I’m also cold approaching with some regularity although I don’t necessarily post every single FR, but that said, when I have some plates spinning (or even one really so that I’m not generally horny) I think I’ll be able to focus even more on cold approach and boost skills.
@HABD – point taken. Going out solo tonight for a short while at least to mack on some 20s girls 🙂
” . . . about 30s online chicks.”
Why?
” . . . mack on some 20s girls . . . ”
There ya go.
@KFG – because it’s useful to have some plates in the background so that I don’t go too long without sex.
@redlight “the goal is to build unresolved sexual tension and attraction by controlled push/pull reward/pullback just like on those chick movies, TV shows, and books, so that she has to seek resolution or forever wonder the mighthavebeen.” This. Women can get sex whenever they want, just like you can fast-forward to the end of a movie whenever you want…but the fun is in experiencing the WHOLE movie. On a similar note, it can actually be helpful to NOT give her your phone number, because when you do that it removes all the pressure for her to come with you…she knows… Read more »
@redlight “So let’s compare my approach with the other 1) Watch new Xmen movie, eat popcorn Authentic, outcome independent, zero risk of triggering ASD, not too much sexual tension, low time investment, she knows she is perfectly safe coming to my place and she needs to take steps to find out if I’m gay or asexual such as a passionate kiss 2) Star in a reality chick flick for hours Within the frame of what women want, planning, time investment, have to hide details of life and work and interests, follow script and routines, emulate other actors/artists after studying them… Read more »
@STRONGTEK i can’t help but notice that you study zen…lol… During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived – everyone except the Zen master. Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was. When he wasn’t treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger. “You fool,” he shouted as he reached for his sword, “don’t you realize… Read more »
@softek If no one has reiterated it again.. I can’t say enough about the BPD information on Shari Screiber’s website. Rollo initially mentioned it, and it was this info that made me realize I’d been married to a BPD for 20 years. Rollo has his doubt about it, but I assure you, all of the indicators are there, and she had the troubled childhood that lends itself perfectly to it, including an alcoholic and abusive mother, who alienated her from her bio father with lies, which she discovered later, etc.. The riddle is solved. Now, perhaps my wife was a… Read more »
@scray Skimming back over my post I think the difference in what I’m looking at VS you is I’m viewing it from the perspective of being a direct competition VS a cooperative effort. So I’m seeing what RDJ is doing that will help him in a direct competition with Evans, VS like, these are two cool guys who are going to boost eachother’s value and girls will want both of them. I’m looking at it like “but what’s RDJ doing that will get him that 0.0001% edge to directly compete”. Try battling with your buddy a bit if you haven’t… Read more »
@scray Actually one more follow-up that’s important: if he’s a high-energy guy like a Stifler or Evans, when you DO try to compete with him a bit, try to do it with as LITTLE effort/energy as possible. Like instead of just dominating the energy in the set and grabbing the girls etc, see if you can use lasers/subcomms/unreactiveness/body-language/positioning/etc to subtly come off just slightly cooler and draw the girls off him to CHOOSING you without observably doing much. If you can do it to your buddy you’ll be able to do it to normal guys EASY. Like if I hang… Read more »
Russell Brand is my game idol. If I ever get good enough at game, I’d like to do his style. Is like you guys say, he is massively value-giving, in a few videos I’ve seen I don’t remember seeing him even negging or similar.
Is RSD Owen and Todd also mostly like that nowadays? Julien for example is kind of an asshole to girls when he is gaming. It is hilarious that they love it, but maybe not what I’d want to do (unless it was the only way for me to be good at it).
Hope everyone enjoyed the holiday. I got catching up to do, but naturally, Ya and scray caught my eyeballs. ” lol I was gonna let it go but ya, this is what Scray is pointing out. When he says “why do you do it”, a Blax will respond “I just don’t have the desire” but when Scray says “ya, so you’ve lost the desire” a Blax will circle around and go “Oh I HAVE the desire, I just have self mastery” and then if Scray goes “so you HAVE the desire, why don’t you act on it?” a Blax goes… Read more »
@ya ‘I don’t even really care who they’re dating or their history when I compare them though’ i check on shit like that because sometimes stuff that looks super cool to me may not look super cool to a woman. so if there’s a dude who seems super alpha to me but like….his gf and all the fbs or whatever he’s ever had are like 6’s, I’m like ‘hmmmm…’ that’s why the RDJ thing threw me for a loop. so ya my default setting is like you…I prefer the RDJ more cocky style, but like I said….there must be something… Read more »
@hank holiday Your Day2 is pimp. Don’t listen to the haters. It’s versatile and laced with a ton of value and you can use it on any girl and adjust/calibrate parts of it on the fly. I WISH more guys planned out their Day2s like that, all they would have to do is get the girl to show up and the design of the Day2 would take care of the rest. It’s not that you CAN’T go faster or just directly invite her to your place etc, and you’ll wanna experiment with that down the road, it’s just that depending… Read more »
@blax@SJF look at it this way….you and SJF, and Rollo, have contributed a ton to a masculine mindset that is workable and useable in modern society. seriously all me and Ya are doing is ADDING. like with the looks thing or other shit, we’re only ADDING to shit you guys agree with. and most of the time, we’re just saying ‘ya you guys were right….but it’s even better.’ that’s why i don’t really want to drag it out because i don’t want it to be a ting where you think I think you’re ‘just old’ or some stupid shit like… Read more »
@YaFuckingReally I’m in a very good mood…and no alcohol was needed. I just put a fun comment on another site where a broad was hating on negging and me calling her “Darlin'” so I called her Trixie instead and teased her about being too serious or maybe too old to remember what mating is and ohbytheway, could you pick up a quarter I dropped? I amuse myself. I don’t debate and don’t engage directly if a broad is misbehaving…instead I tease and change the subject and sexualize. As I told her, Game should be fun. In line with your I’mSoAwesomeIdon’tKnowIt… Read more »
@ YaReally Lol. Okay man. I can’t explain this to you any better than I have already. I don’t do anything ” just because “, unless the occasion is ” because I felt like it “. I use other’s social conditioning to my benefit when I think it is appropriate, or when it benefits my needs. Social conditioning has MASSIVE potential downsides for me. That’s been the case for as long as I can remember. Lol, You have no idea how much fucking pearl clutching I’ve witnessed in life just by ” being “. I choose to not participate so… Read more »
” . . . spiel is “Game” in German…”
It’s a verb, so more like “playing the game.” The old meaning was along the lines of contemporary “frolic.”
@hank
Now, in a movie theater, if you try to touch her or kiss her or whatever, and she doesn’t accept it, you’re kind of fucked. You can’t go somewhere else, you can’t talk to her really, it just kind of remains an awkward moment and it makes you look bad.
You are confused. The objective is to watch the new Xmen movie without any distraction, aside from the popcorn. If she tries to pull an alanis morissette put some popcorn in her mouth.
@scray “so if there’s a dude who seems super alpha to me but like….his gf and all the fbs or whatever he’s ever had are like 6’s, I’m like ‘hmmmm…’” lol there’s so much else to it though. Like some super pimp alpha dude living in Buttfuck Idaho just isn’t going to have access to the same girls he’d have access to in like, Vegas. And guys who are alpha as fuck around other dudes or in their comfort zones, aren’t necessarily able to bring that out around women or aren’t chasing women or are still under Blue Pill conditioning… Read more »
“And because RDJ knows Evans can’t leave that box (nor can most of hollywood really), he can go just a bit further than Evans can go on the “bad boy” scale.”
Mitchum used to do the same shtick (that’s Yiddish for “shtick”), only where RDJ plays it with a bit of an edge, Mitchum was laconic, it flowed like melted butter. Which meant that people took an extra half beat to catch up to him. When was really on form it was some beautiful shit.
@ YaReally I could talk with you forever if I didn’t have other shit to do. He he he… ” If a child is in your way you shove them over.” Lmao. Yesterday in the mall, a little girl, maybe 4 or 5, was laying on some steps throwing a temper tantrum. My wife, being a teacher, tried to help the girl up, which only made her go even more ballistic. I just stepped over her and kept walking. Btw, I don’t always stop because a cop tells me to. Following those commands haven’t always wound up being beneficial for… Read more »
@Blaximus “I could talk with you forever if I didn’t have other shit to do. He he he…” lol work is still slow for me right now so I get to fuck around. “If I had to put a number on it, I’d say that around 80% of my life has nothing to do with social conditioning. The older I get, the less I’m willing to just go along. I think it’s a natural progression.” See THIS statement I have ZERO problem with. Hell for you it’s probably like 90% has nothing to do with it. It’s the absolute “bro,… Read more »
“I just stepped over her and kept walking.”
Well sure, you might have slipped and hurt yourself if you’d stepped on her.
@ YaReally ” See THIS statement I have ZERO problem with. Hell for you it’s probably like 90% has nothing to do with it. It’s the absolute “bro, NOTHING I DO is socially conditioned trust me” stuff where it’s like oh okay so when you go to a restaurant do you just push people out of their chairs so you can sit down or do you just walk to the front of the line at McDonald’s because fuck everyone else? That’s not realistic lol That’s all I’m saying.” #coffeespray Man, you caught me off guard with a mouthful of espresso.… Read more »
@kfg
” Well sure, you might have slipped and hurt yourself if you’d stepped on her.”
Absolutely. I like my hips unbroken.
@redlight
“The objective is to watch the new Xmen movie without any distraction, aside from the popcorn.”
Cool dude.
My objective is to get laid.
lol
“My objective is to get laid”
Exactly, and this is what we mean by becoming completely outcome independent, zfg, she could vanish and you wouldn’t even blink
Hey seems like Blax is saying: golden rule + hey don’t take shit too seriously – have fun, like life is a game, cause that makes it fun = cool. Seems cool to me. Scray, YaReally – the main message I get from you guys is: hey don’t take shit so seriously, – have fun, like life is a game, cause that makes it fun + but be aware and vigilant as to who and what (social conditioning) is trying to fuck with you cause they are taking shit too seriously (or conditioning you to), and therefore can easily fuck… Read more »
Still working my way through 2 days of comments, but I gotta say just a few words to.. @ hank- ” Texted asian girl this evening “Hey miss Wonton Ping Pong. You and tinder girl get gay married yet?”” Oh dear. Did you really text that? Okay, pro tip from a former Sifu Asian chick banger, lol. Next time, and there will be a next time, when you are trying to get next to a woman of Asian heritage, ESPECIALLY one that’s American born, don’t make any kind of reference to her ethnicity. She knows she’s Asian. Especially don’t do… Read more »
YaReally, I’ve just been watching that RDJ/Evans interview a couple of times keeping in mind what you’ve posted to see if I can spot some of the dynamics – only three minutes, but so much there. Stuff I’ve noticed: 1. So the point (around 1:50) at which RDJ goes “I don’t have to carry this movie..that’s on you” with a big cheesy grin – that’s like him lobbing Evans an easy one right? Like that’s the point at which he’s saying that because he KNOWS Evans will compliment him in response? Which Evans duly does..and then RDJ plays off of… Read more »
@YaReally and Scray All the sudden you guys are starting to make sense (to me). Scray is right the debate is getting too circular. But it is not for nothing. I’ll probably get back to the debate (and delineate false premises)when my brain is less frazzled. I had all last week off and had a hard day at work catching up with a busy built up schedule. Did you notice the hypomania in my field report? I’m pushing my limits in a good way and things are going well. For the record, I have always resisted social conditioning and the… Read more »
@ SJF ” I actually learned a lot in the back and forth contentious debate in the Tribes thread. I think the Ya/Scray vs. Blax/SJF has been productive in this thread. I’m not capitulating, but affirming that Ya/Scray are saying good things. When a man can debate another on the other side of the table and explain himself clearly he learns more. If he can clearly defend his position with his debate ideas he can strengthen his argument and it is clear that YaReally, Scray and Blax have done this. Once again I think I can get back to universal… Read more »
“If he would have been “nice” to me he would have been enabling my my false rationalizations.”
In a zendo you may well find a big guy with a big stick. His job is to be cruel to be kind.
@ kfg
… whatever you do, don’t fall asleep.
@culum @yareally @blax @quixotic @forge Went out to the same city I went to on my bad FR from this past Friday. I know there is a university with a lot of foreigners there, so wanted to scope out the area to see if there were any places I missed. Ends up its just the city lol. The TL:DR is that it is indeed the city that’s a bad location — hence the bad results on that FR — BUT I still was out for like 3 hours (much longer than I intended) and got a bunch of social experience.… Read more »
@blax “‘Hey miss Wonton Ping Pong. You and tinder girl get gay married yet?’ Oh dear. Did you really text that?” It was poorly calibrated for text. In person I use jerkboy game on girls a lot — I’ll take their things or drink their alcohol without asking lol. BUT, since I am THERE, I can win them over and get them to like me. Its one of my favorite things to do. But in a TEXT, she just sees the “racist” comment, goes “fuck this guy” and thats it — where as in person that angry reaction is GOOD… Read more »
@Blaximus
“Generalizations weren’t accepted.”
generalizations are a tool of the FI/social conditioning… and one of the better ways to spot it.
good luck!
“I still don’t know if I can give them a real, true answer. It requires a lot of thought on my part.” It doesn’t require a lot of thought on my part. With me, I am somewhat less than expert at expressing my thoughts properly. It is part of my hard-wiring– I take in well, I put out (express myself in coherent thought) less well. My take is that both you and I have actually gave them a real, true answer (I know I have) but it is not a universal truth (as such it was proper for them to… Read more »
@ IAS ” @Blaximus and Scray tangent (inc. SJF and YaReally): When I started commenting on the site I didn’t “get” Andy and I think genuinely didn’t feel tempted to have multiples. I’m still not sure I am actually tempted to have multiples or if it is strictly a quantity issue, and I’m not getting enough from the “monopoly” supplier. In any case, lots of respect for those of you that get all they want from a single source.” Very common predicament. As far as not getting the quantity from the monopoly supplier..lol.. I love the way you phrased that,… Read more »
Regarding RDj and Evans what is the power dynamic at your work between two people, when one is making ten times the other?
Regarding marriage, in whatever form, Ya is going to remain a keyboard jockey about having and raising children, if he ever gets around to that topic, and the relationship dynamics that imposes. My wife and I have always found that people without children don’t understand the impact. To me the first question is not monogamy or not, it’s children or not.
@Culum Struan “he’s saying that because he KNOWS Evans will compliment him in response” Right. He probably wouldn’t do that with like, Kanye or someone. But he KNOWS Evans and has a full read of how Evans will react to stuff (which you can develop just through interacting with a lot of people and running into Evans types), so he knows when he talks himself down Evans will talk him up. “but I’m not exactly sure why that helps RDJ” Who’s higher value: the guy you think is high value when you walk into the room? Or the guy THAT… Read more »
@Blaximus Think back to how sex was with her in the hottest stages, in the beginning. Give it some good, long thought. Good tangent. Let me take another fork in the road as it relates to IAS. He has a long distance relationship marriage. Which makes it tougher. His wife plays the hide the vagina game in order to garner more control. She wants and needs control to feel safe. It is IAS’s job to make her feel safe not being “in control”. That is his burden of performance. The person in the relationship who needs the other less has… Read more »
Having worked in gentlemen clubs for a number of years I feel like I could offer some advice here. Crazy women are like sports cars. Fun to drive around and show off, but no good as a daily driver. Do not take these gals seriously. Ever. Do not attempt to make them into something they are not. I know how boring some chicks are and I can see the appeal in having a crazy gf ., I have had several. But I learned over time to not date them. Tell them the truth, don’t game them by making emotional appeals… Read more »
@Ya The only reason I could imagine settling down into a relationship would be to have children, but even then there are enough examples of pLTR/oLTR relationships with kids that I think there’s an area that needs to be looked at, in order to give men an optimal endgame plan alternative to the traditional plan. What I’m a keyboard jockey about, among other things, is what impact having children will have on a pLTR/oLTR. I suspect the impact can be huge, perhaps to the point that the mother says all deals are off, either go exclusive or get divorced, and… Read more »
@redlight “What I’m a keyboard jockey about, among other things, is what impact having children will have on a pLTR/oLTR. I suspect the impact can be huge, perhaps to the point that the mother says all deals are off, either go exclusive or get divorced, and she could use your lifestyle against you when the FI decides your custody rights.” That’s the THEORY. Like ya, in THEORY that’s what SHOULD happen. But we want evidence ’cause in THEORY being mean to girls shouldn’t turn them on, in THEORY doing housework for them should make them want to bang you, etc… Read more »
@Blaximus and SJF: the monopoly terminology, this is exactly what it is. And it is easy to see why it (usually) doesn’t work – you don’t / can’t trust a monopoly to not use the opportunity to artificially create scarcity and inflate the value of the commodity. I recognized that even within my BP mindset, but I guess I was foolish enough to my “loved one” wouldn’t act like a for-profit corporation. That is at the root of why (soft) dread is particularly necessary in LTR/marriages. Whether one likes it or not. SJF is correct about my LDR marriage, it… Read more »
Damn, this discussion is heading right into my wheelhouse. Wish I could comment more.
@ having a bad day Expert analysis. Zen is a huge hobby of mine. I never learned about it from anyone myself and just found koans/stories online one day and never looked back. Being a professor or anything doesn’t matter, lol. Thanks for sharing that, I hadn’t thought of that story in that way before. @ YaReally Another blowup with the GF, and after a long string of messages and her telling me to delete her phone number, and then a string of messages saying she was sorry and that she didn’t mean to fuck everything up, that she has… Read more »
@ YaReally Still reading all your stuff and taking mental notes even though something like breaking things off with the current GF, let alone a future pLTR with a new girl, seems like it’s impossible for me right now. It took me a long time to get to a point where I landed the current GF, which I did because I was completely laid back and open to having sex (or not), i.e. was outcome independent, at least as much as a guy can be. It all went perfect the first night. Could not have gone better. Sexual tension slowly… Read more »
Blaximus said: “The debate lead to a great point by both scray and Ya. Pushing for concrete understanding of ” why ” we chose what we chose specifically, and what was our exact mindsets. Generalizations weren’t accepted. And I agree with you that the same thing happened in the Tribes post re: Looks. the comment section was EPIC, and it went on FOREVER. At first I was getting annoyed with the repitious asking of ” why?”, but I think now I finally get what scray and Ya are saying.” I see what we are doing here: Running in opposite directions… Read more »