Christian Dread

christian_dread

A couple of interesting things happened over the last week and a half that made me think it might be time to reconsider the principle of Dread once again. The first was a comment I made over at Biblical Gender Roles which Larry Solomon then devoted a blog post to address. This was my comment to him:

While I might not endorse overt Dread for Christian men I would advise they become more aware of the opportunities that passive Dread represents in their marriages.

Most Beta Christian men (which is to say 90%+) will proactively try to diffuse the sexual anxiety and tension necessary to inspire the ‘desired’ sex you describe here. They believe the pro-feminine lie that rapport, comfort and familiarity is what leads to sexual desire so they make every attempt to convince their wives that they have no need to worry or feel insecure that any other woman would want them sexually, much less appreciate them for being ‘good christian men’.

What they fail to grasp is that passionate sex inspired by genuine desire is the result of insecurity, anxiety and sexual tension. Most Christian men are conditioned to bypass this phase in seducing their wives, thinking that comfort and security are what will prompt her to being more sexual, but in doing so they kill the vibe before it can build. Comfort and rapport are post-orgasm, oxytocin effects, but Christian men believe they are prerequisites for sex. For the most part they are deathly afraid to embrace and exaggerate the uncertainty, spontaneity, anxiety and tension women need to feel sexual urgency.

You make sex another chore for a woman when you negotiate for her desire. Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. If you find yourself in a sexless (or passionless sex) relationship with your wife you need to embrace using soft dread situations to prompt her imagination. A woman’s imaginings are the best tool in you seduction toolbox, learn how to inspire them.

Make your wife unintentionally uncomfortable. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. By its very nature passionate, desired sex is a result of being uncomfortable, uncertain and urgent. It might be an uncomfortable truth to most Christian men, but the best, most memorable, married sex you have won’t be the result of a pre-planned “Date Night” where you stage manage every event and nuance in advance; it will be the rough, hard-core, make-up sex you never thought you’d have after a near breakup inspired by the anxiety of the thought of never having you around anymore.

Just to give you a quick run down here, I found BGR quite by accident. One of Solomon’s post actually got shared in my FaceBook feed by a notorious Christian feminist I follow just for such stories. I’ve written about it in the past, but I find contemporary evangelical Christianity (or ‘Churchianity’) to be one of the most fertile grounds for egalitarian feminist mores to propagate.

Standard disclaimer: I don’t do religion on this blog, but I do intersexual dynamics and sometimes these have effects that are very intertwined with religion, politics and social orders. It’s long been my own and Dalrock’s observation that Christianity has been co-opted by the same feminization that secular society has been saturated by.

As things progressed, this post and my exchanges with Solomon in the comments were picked up on by Raw Story and at least 4 other reblogs from various culture news “journalists” happy to pull anything and everything out of context, provided no links to the actual article and, as would be expected, deleted any post of my own from the Disqus comment threads I vainly tried to leave. I was happy for what spillover traffic came in from it, but I know the indignation crowd’s flavor of the minute doesn’t really count for much.

However, for all of that, I did reexamine my two previous posts on Dread: Dread Games and Soft Dread. It was interesting to see the knee-jerk response to ideas like “passionate sex inspired by genuine desire is the result of insecurity, anxiety and sexual tension”  from the Blue Pill commentariat. The problem I see is that there’s only one manner in which terms like ‘insecurity’, ‘anxiety’ and ‘sexual tension’ are really interpreted by those steeped in the Feminine Imperative. They are always going to be viewed from a position of absolutism; therefor the drive-by impression is that myself or Solomon were advocating for heavy handed abuse of wives by their husbands.

And as expected, the straw men got more blown out of scale, and then it was a story of how Christian husbands ought to force themselves on their wives irrespective of their actual desire, and then comes ‘Rape! Rapety rape rape!’

How to Get Your Wife to Want to Fuck You

I’ll admit, I’m not familiar with Solomon’s writing, but from what I gather on his blog it’s fairly heavy on the “how to get your wife to have the Biblically mandated sex the Lord obligates her to” posts. I fully understand the ease with which the “spiritual, but not religious” crowd would have a field day with a majority of his posts.

As some of my readers are aware I’ve been an active reader of Dalrock’s blog for years now. I don’t do religion, but if I were to I expect a lot of what I’d write would be better done by Dal. A handful of commenters on his blog think I’m the Devil for laying bare the frustrations they observe in the church in the secular, nuts & bolts, psychology and intersexual dynamics. I think most there have a pretty good grasp of the feminization and egalitarian efforts that have taken root in a religion that still preaches the old set of books to men while simultaneously expecting them to recognize the new set of books for women.

I imagine a lot of contemporary Christian men would embrace some degree of the MGTOW mindset if marriage weren’t the only doctrinal means for them to have ‘ordained’ sex. Mainstream, pop-culture Christianity loves to adopt and ‘sanctify’ christianized versions of secular social trends, and the Red Pill is no exception. One theme I see repeated on sites like BGR as well as Focus on the Family is a push for married Christian couples to have more sex. Solomon’s tact is literally enforcing Biblical gender roles on couples and therefor obligating wives to ‘Duty Sex’ they apparently are reluctant to have. For the Focus on the Family side, there’s an embrace of men’s constant need to qualify themselves for their wive’s intimacy; ergo making it their fault for their sexlessness.

I imagine this situation doesn’t bode well with the contemporary Christian young man who actually takes his conviction with some degree of seriousness. Not only does his Burden of Performance include a constant qualification to women in a sexless pre-marriage state (to say nothing of the hormones of youth), he “struggles” with rubbing it out to porn, and then has a sexless marriage waiting for him on the other side of the marriage contract that is all down-side risk for him.

The Quest for the Righteous Fox will always persist, but I can’t say that sounds like a great opportunity for an 18 year old guy raised on Purity Rings and taught to defer all authority to the woman who will become his only source of sexual release for a lifetime. So the appeal of a christianized form of the Red Pill should be obvious.

My comment to Solomon was motivated from the perspective of wanting to help these men better understand their Christian conditioned Blue Pill predicament. I know a common refrain of more traditionalist Christians is that Christianity was already Red Pill before there was a Red Pill, and in an Old Testament respect I guess I can relate, but the problem isn’t one of doctrine, it’s about the readiness with which the church has adopted egalitarianism as doctrine. I get that it’s largely a business decision – appeal to the feminine or go out of business – but after several generations the same Blue Pill conditioning of the past 60+ years is only amplified in a religious context.

Religion is no insulation against Hypergamy. I understand that in the past religion was used as a control on Hypergamy, especially in respect to men’s burden of performance and the necessity of their provisioning to women.

There was a section in the London Real video interview of Nick Krauser where he explains the distribution of labor aspect of how religion and the 80\20 aspect of the Pareto Principle interact with Hypergamy and intersexual dynamics. I may explore this in another post, but the idea is that monogamous marriage in a Christian sense relatively ensured that the 80% Beta men could reasonably expect to get a woman for exclusive sex and pass on his genetic lineage.

Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks are still the order of the day, but that Beta could, through a social and religious contract, be pacified with a wife and the responsibilities inherent in his burden of performance as a father and husband. Thus the distribution of labor could be maintained without the fear of a ‘Beta Uprising’ to claim control of more Alpha dominant men.

Stay at Home Dad Documents His Sex Life on a Fitbit

Unfortunately with the advent of the sexual revolution that Beta Christian man’s sex life is far more likely to resemble this guy’s. Egalitarianism has saturated itself not just into the social structure of the church, but it has reshaped the very doctrine upon which this old set of books and monogamous marriage was founded upon.

Thus we see men looking for answers to their sexless marriages and the hope that Red Pill awareness can bring to them. Old order marriage only exists with regards to men’s responsibilities under it. These husbands must balance those old order expectations with a new order egalitarianism that the church has embraced for their wives. And few are ever aware of their balancing act.

The Red Pill would have to be made Christian Kosher®, but the psychological and sociological underpinning of Red Pill awareness clashes with the ‘traditionalism’ of old order Biblical gender roles based on that old division of labor/monogamous marriage model.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

341 comments on “Christian Dread

    1. @Edelweiss
      “Choose any ideology you like. When a woman views it through the prism of the FI, it takes on the fundamental characteristics we likely would all recognize.”
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nF7CGp84gAk

      @Rollo Tommassi
      http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/31/your-money/after-full-lives-together-more-older-couples-are-divorcing.html?emc=edit_bg_20151103&nl=booming&nlid=72227976
      “I have approached Dalrock about coauthoring just such a book in the past.”
      Hope to read that. Because it would be a huge boon in my social retardation and new forms of adaptability.

      “I’m not saying all Christian men are default pussies or there are no Christian Alphas, just that the social environment that constitutes the church is so overwhelmingly conducive to creating and maintaining Beta men now it’s become endemic.”

      It’s brutal to be alone in that place as well.

      “Even in the stereotypically gender role rigid Mormon church there are feminist pushes to allow women to become church leaders. As I said the church is no insurance.”

      My mother hurt me the most by emasculating my farther for the benefit of my sisters.

      “One of the tragedies of Christian guys’ Blue Pill conditioning is that they’re trained to believe that virtue, conviction, faith, temperance, forgiveness, etc. is what their potential wive will respond to sexually.”

      Everyone that ever said the word “Love” tried pushing me into this and I almost fell into oblivion before I got out.

      “the virtuous characteristics I described are “attractive” to women from a Beta provisioning, parental investment perspective. They are not, nor ever have been, “arousing”, exciting or tingle generating from an Alpha Fucks perspective.”

      If I would of had this blog when sending that in person I truly be leave my life would have been far more serene.
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s_KcVkxvpys

      @Longtorso
      “The church is an institution, and the primary purpose of any institution is to grind men into submission to itself. Cutting off their balls and calling it the Word of God fulfills both requirements of the church as an institution.”
      Chronic masturbation for self soothing violent condoned actions.
      Yeah that’s on point.

      @walawala
      “Girls who do know their own self-worth and are healthy enough emotionally to respect yours are rare. The Red Pill is a bitter wake up call to getting your own emotional house in order and knowing when to pull out or stay in.”
      That’s a gift to behold! I’ve seen such things an rare occurrences at the conference Christian and his lady friend seemed that way to me.

      @IliadsTangent
      “Christian women were some of the most ruthlessly deceptive and hypergamous women I have ever interacted with.”

      Yeah that may be true but it’s interesting to observe while remaining silent. I had a huge issue with mortality when I saw my sisters have sex with multiple partners in my room and in the house. It hurt even more when told to shut up about it. So coming here helps process the purpose and intent of why It happened and better ways to be a better male.

      @the bandit
      “Young men of average SMV are already at a severe seduction disadvantage, and it seems like morality just adds another handicap:”
      That’s the blue pill me in a nutshell.

      @Pedat Ebediyah
      “You can never – EVER – lose frame – or you’re done.”
      By changing myself I’ve noticed that everyone I grew up with it dosnt know me anymore.
      “RECIPROCITY, EMPATHY, and GRATITUDE.”
      … I’ll always have those but I don’t think it will ever come back to me.
      What a wonderful world.

      @Jeremy
      “Feminists are just fine with anything in Christianity that doesn’t impose responsibility on women for their choices.”
      Amen to that

      @The Question
      “When they grow up, they have a choice; either renounce their faith and the FI along with it, or they preserve their faith, but feel they must also accept the FI, which means obeying and submitting to those who preach it.”

      You know the worst part is being polite about leaving it. My own kin humiliated me for being open about that from a very early age.

      @Craiger247
      “For example, my brother and I would regularly attend Sunday church mass, and as we became more and more red pill, the FI was steeped almost in every aspect of the pastor’s speech. You can even see/hear it in the new Pope’s speeches. The premise is always the same, the familiar trope, “Men MUST DO more”. Per the pastor, men were basically the basis of all that is wrong in this world, and only if/when they change, the world will be a better place. Again, I’m not trying to vilify religion or any of it’s ideologies, or the people who regularly attend. However, it seems to be another outlet for men to be shamed, conditioned to be “more of a beta”, and a mouthpiece for the FI. You cannot find one media or social outlet, that puts any “burden” on women to “do more”.”

      Yeah the church I grew up in mandated I go an a two year mission. I got to a point where it became a condition that I opposed.

      @Blaximus
      “Christian men need something outside of the Church to help them regain their Godly position. There’s nothing Un-Godlike about dread game in marriage. The idea of men ceding power and authority to their wives is downright anti God.”

      Holy hell that’s self respect…

      @Caveclown
      “Make a girl with higher smv than her laugh and she sees it, and you create dread. Make a friend of hers giggle, and you create dread. Pursue your life mission with passion and you create dread. Dress nicer and you create dread.”

      Don’t wish it where easier wish you were better.

      “I had very little sexual experience before the wife too, and the lack of knowing whether I “could” pull other women eventually caused me to actually pull other women. I was and am not secure enough in myself to remain faithful.”

      Why is that? Seems familiar in a socially retarded way.

      @kobayashii1681
      “A man in his true nature is not controlled by lies, he sees them for what they are, their utility, context…and acts accordingly, of his own will.”
      I’m tossing you a beverage for that gold.

      @Beefy Levinson
      “It’s still a major uphill battle. I’m a practicing Catholic and it’s true that, in theory, the Church is a thoroughly patriarchal institution. In practice, women run pretty much everything at the parish level that doesn’t explicitly require a priest.”

      Very dangerous to point out in open. But very true in the Mormon faith as well.

      @Sun Wukong
      “Christianity’s default position is one of self-loathing (original sin), putting something external to you first (What Would Jesus Do?), and prostrating yourself before authority. You really expect to get Alpha out of that in a feminist-leaning society?”

      Spot the fuck on.

      “Kind of hard to manifest Alpha at all when those things are pretty much beaten out of you from cradle to grave by the social institution you’re ordered to make the focus of your life under penalty of eternal suffering.

      Manifesting Dread in a monogamous relationship without being allowed to develop Alpha traits?”

      You can’t it’s what got me here.

      “but kids should be kept out of it. Particularly in modern days where it’s just a Beta indoctrination system to create a support system for “reformed” single mommies coming off the carousel from their Alpha hunt outside the church.”

      Yeah it’s child abuse not borderline jus child abuse. I need to watch my new phew because they are trying to indoctrinate him in church.

  1. Have you asked your wives what would make them feel more horny? Have you asked women what turns them on? Do you consider the womens perspective at all, besides a living fleshlight?The only thing right on this whole blog is “undeniable”, I prefer men who can laugh at themselves, don’t play dread games and are thinish.

    1. @Shane, there’s 2 reasons why what you suggest is always counterproductive:

      1. You cannot negotiate genuine desire.

      By asking a woman what would make her horny (assuming you don’t get a self-conscious response) you send the message that you don’t know how to make her so (Beta status confirmation) and you negotiate for her desire by performing a task in exchange for her obligation to be horny. Thus you kill any natural, unsolicited genuine desire with obligation for services rendered.

      2. Women want a man who Just Gets It.

      The guy with the capacity to call a woman’s bluff with a confidence that implies she is to be worthy of him rather than the other way around is the Man to be competed for. Essentially the ‘chick speak’, ‘chick advice’ phenomenon is a shit test writ large on a social scale. And even your own mother and sisters are in on it, expecting you to ‘get it’; to get the message and see the challenge for what it really is, without overtly telling you.

      She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.

      Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

  2. Rollo,
    “Ergo, you have Emily fucking the exciting, “arousing” guys back in her junior year of high school – who never had to learn a passage from the Bible to fuck her – while she proactively cuckolds her virtuous Christian live-in boyfriend by making him wait for the sex her “arousing” boyfriends never had to.”

    One of her ( moronic) comment was :
    “And he treats me well, and THAT what matters ”
    Tingles don’t matter for her! ( for now) .

    The day will come when she realizes she created a boring sex zombie and resenting him for believing in the “crap” She preached and how he bought it instead of standing up to her ignorance .

  3. @Shane

    To add to what Rollo said: you ever ask a woman what she wants in a man? It ain’t what she actually wants. It’s what she’s been told by society is the acceptable list of things to say she wants. Watch who she truly lusts after or fucks. Watch what that guy is or does. That’s what she wants. She’ll never tell a man, she’ll only show him in who she runs off to actually fuck.

  4. Great article as usual Rollo. It’s a truly pitiable state what times we’re in right now.

    I apologize for the video not directly relating to your current article, and maybe you’ve seen it already, but I got linked to this indoctrinating pile of rubbish today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYvWhzSKoc4

    The blue-pill is strong. Boys today, atheist, christian, or whatever religion (except Muslims) are raised to be cuckolds. There isn’t a single “man” in that entire video.

    I think the emasculation of Westernized men is the main reason why Muslims are currently flooding Europe and raping all the women.

    Christian men have to wake up, men in Western civilization as a whole need to wake up.

  5. I prefer men who can laugh at themselves, don’t play dread games and are thinish.”

    This is typical. Basically, it’s a confusion between externals and the internals the actually make the man attractive.

    a) men who can laugh at themselves – amused mastery, emotional invulnerability. My father has great natural game, and his go-to method for passing (pretty ruthless, really) shit tests is to laugh exuberantly at the problems my mother brings up. Especially the problems with him. He finds it hilarious, not wounding.

    The idea that she might be disrespecting him doesn’t even occur to him. Subconsciously, he ‘assumes the sale.’

    b) Doesn’t play dread games – he doesn’t need to ‘play games’ at all. Dread is built into who he is.

    c) thinnish – looks matter. So does self-respect. And your ability to be attractive to other women.

    And of course, different women prioritize things differently. But all this is basic internal game.

  6. re: ‘have you asked what turns her on?’

    Hehe, I used to ask that. Then I discovered that what turned her on the most was being disobeyed.

    Guess what I did then.

  7. @ Shane: You can argue with some claims of some manospherians but plethysmography shows beyond doubt that women have not a damn clue what turns them on- which means if you “ask” them they will lie- same as everything else.

    Not even a nice try.

  8. @ Kobayashii1681: even prior to learning about Red Pill I was swimming occasionally and doing other sports where there are indeed lots of young women around (like yoga, although I wasn’t in it for the women). I’m shy around strangers though so usually I was just there doing my thing and not interacting much.

    Now I’m also going to the gym and lifting weights to get stronger.

  9. I attend a large church that leans RP, but still leaves plenty to be desired. They’ve featured a couple of reformed adulteresses in their literature/videos showing, of course, what is possible when you’ve turned your life over to God and you presumably no longer drop your panties for men you’re not married to.

    They will occasionally have guest preachers or speakers, and one time they had 4 women speakers (all church members) talking about the role of women in the Kingdom or something like that. One of them was the obligatory noble single mom. She was the least objectionable of the bunch, though.

    Two of them were just wretched – they were like fingernails on chalkboard. One admitted to having a long history of cutting beta hubby down to size with snide remarks, but Jesus was now helping her to be more submissive to her husband’s authority. She clearly needed more divine intervention – it was as obvious as hell she was seething with resentment about getting with the program.

    When the debacle was over, the overall vibe in the church was this had gone over like a lead balloon. Hopefully, the fact that people were instinctively turned off by the whole thing bodes well for the future.

  10. Here’s the raw truth about Christianity. The Alphas kill it there, just like anywhere else. However, the Alphas in Christianity are naturals and don’t really verbalize/demonstrate red pill philosophies.

    Thus, church leaders, the dynamic leader types, tend to have great marriages and do well. As do the cream of the crop of Christian men, the top 20%, everyone else is fucked.

    With that said Christianity has little credibility in my eyes, since the ass fucks are so god damn arrogant and act like they know the truth about everything. Yet they clearly have missed the boat regarding relationships.

    “We know the truth! We are saved! You are lost!” – Go fuck yourself, you know nothing. You know no truth. You speculate, you interpret, and you argue amongst yourselves jockeying for position. Implying that your flavor of the 31 flavors of Christianity is somehow the best and most correct. The catholics tell the protestants they are wrong and there is only one true church. The charismatcs say you need to be baptised in the spirit and if you’re not, you’re missing out somehow. The prosperity preachers, the self deniers, the mega church pastors, the calvinists, the armenianists. Who has the truth? Fuck them all.

  11. Shane: “Have you asked your wives what would make them feel more horny? Have you asked women what turns them on? Do you consider the womens perspective at all, besides a living fleshlight?The only thing right on this whole blog is “undeniable”, I prefer men who can laugh at themselves, don’t play dread games and are thinish.

    Are you a gay man? Women are not like gay men. Asking them what turns them on doesn’t typically turn them on.

  12. Another part of the problem is that most evangelical Christians really do believe that females have a special spiritual intuition about them, which, if the lid was blown open on their true attraction triggers, would cause rapid recoil involving scoldings about comparing them to “animals” and having “instincts” and … but evolution!

    The big lie is that Christian women are able to overcome their feral instincts where the shamed Christian “porn-addict” male cannot. Of course that all gets thrown out the window when your wife accidentally meets the right man at the right missions conference and they meet later and they accidentally kiss and then she basically accidentally divorces you. And it’s your fault because you aren’t L-E-A-D-I-N-G her like Christ. Interestingly enough, although their interpretation of lead like Jesus is grossly misrepresented, if you actually did lead like him authentically, you may generate some tingle. See dalrock’s post on that topic if you like. https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/04/16/how-would-you-respond-if-your-husband-leadloved-you-like-christ/

    Christian men are probably at the greatest risk of playing cap’n save a ho with a reborn virgin at the midnight hour of 33 years, just before she smashes into the wall.

    And just for laughs, witness the total lack of self-awareness in this recent Christian hamsterfeed of a song.

    It’s literally titled ” 6’2 ” by Christian artist Marie Miller. AF much? The male version of this song would be shamed out of the church and radio, but 6 foot 2 “would go perfect at our youth group nights”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59bjTnFsHPw

    Lord I’ve been prayin’
    For somebody I’ve never seen
    And I don’t care what he looks like
    As long as he loves me

    No I’m not particular

    But could he have blue eyes
    Just like the sky
    And blonde hair
    Wavy and light
    And 6 foot 2 is my favorite height
    But lord I don’t care what he looks like

    I’ve been gettin’ so lonesome
    Waiting for him to come around
    But if you’re teaching me patience
    I’m willing to wait this one out

    ….27 year old evangelical christian girl listening to this while browsing her Tinder.

  13. lol at the term Christian RP…. RP in its purist form has no religious involvement at all. I’m done with this thread, Ill be back on the next essay when we get back to real discussions.

  14. Liz: “Does this turn you on?”
    Is a line you will find in a best selling chick lit “romance” novel absolutely never.

    I will have to trust your experience with this kind of literature, but that is a very good argument.

  15. Abundance mentality applies to women in general, I don’t think it applies to virgin brides – but the benefits for LTR stability seem significant

    @IAS

    So here’s your pedestal. Chances are you won’t find another virgin, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t plenty of wonderful women that aren’t virgins out there. You need to get over this line of thinking. There’s no need to find another virgin. Especially for a red pill alpha.

    I’m fairly sure I will increase my SMV, and hope it will be enough to improve things significantly.

    Here’s the thing. Just by dedicating yourself to increase your SMV you have ALREADY increased your SMV. Don’t wait until you’re the ultimate version of yourself to feel entitled to be the King of your home.

    Some of you guys did that prior to getting married so you have a better idea of it, but I did not and have very little “real” experience (and just reading up on more theory can’t replace real experience).

    I didn’t spin plates either, but I guess I did have the experience of fucking girls that I didn’t have one-itis for at first. You don’t have the experience, but the thing is you are talking like you know exactly what it takes. I think you know deep down. Personally I think you can do it without cheating. Here’s the mindset… If she’s optimizing her hypergamy with you then you are a man that knows that he could have a better woman. You need to get into this mindset. She NEEDS you to be in this mindset. It is absolutely necessary that you get there for the health of the marriage. She needs to be winning with you, not you winning with her. That means you need to get over this notion that you would only be with another virgin.

    What bothers me most about my situation is not the physical lack of of sex but what that manifestation implies regarding my wife not having genuine desire for me

    Don’t wait for her to initiate. If you’re horny and want to fuck her brains out Don’t Hide IT. Show her. Look deep into her eyes with that look like you are losing control of yourself. Grab her hair and kiss her like you can’t take it anymore. Then just take her. She’s your fucking wife. That’s what she’s there for. She’ll LOVE it.

    Also, read The Sex God Theory. Basically you want to get to the point that you’re fucking her like you would fuck a sex doll. Move her around, dominate her, etc, etc. Follow your intuition, if your brain wants you to turn her around and fuck her doggy style, then turn her around. Do a lot of talking too. Don’t be quiet. Obviously you might not feel right grabbing her ears and fucking her face until she pukes at first… lol. Every time you fuck her just go outside of your comfort zone a little bit more. Just keep pushing your personal boundaries. It doesn’t sound romantic, but girls don’t want to be fucked romantically… AT ALL. lol. That’s a total DLV move.

    Another thing is make sure that you are the person that affects her, not her affecting you. Cumming at the same time is great right? But you know whats better? Making her cum over and over again… You can get there, and it’s awesome. The next day she’ll just be happier and more feminine, and just be a more enjoyable person. Unfortunately for you because she’s virgin she won’t really appreciate it like some girls would. She’ll just think the next door neighbor can do the same thing… So, there is a downside to virgins.

    I’m shy around strangers though so usually I was just there doing my thing and not interacting much.

    This is something that I’ve only recently started to overcome. The biggest thing that helped me was the notion of congruence. Word, thoughts, and actions aligned. I would never know what to say to people because I simply wasn’t interested in other people. And I hate(d) small talk. Basically when you look at someone usually something pops into your head about what they are wearing, what they are doing, etc. I’ve just started to recognize that sometimes I am actually curious about that person, so I’ll just start a conversation about whatever pops into my head. Then at that point just try and follow your intuition. It turns out I have always known how to have conversations with people I just wasn’t following my intuition. The next time you’re at the gym and you get that feeling like you should talk to a particular person and say “xxx” go and say it. What’s the worst that can happen? Just make sure you make deep eye contact(like lock right into their pupils), smile, and come from a position where you’re there to give them energy, not that you’re trying to get something from them. Go through @yaReally’s posts and watch those RSD videos. It really helps even with simple socialization.

    Hope that helps.

    1. @Andy
      “Follow your intuition, if your brain wants you to turn her around and fuck her doggy style, then turn her around. Do a lot of talking too. Don’t be quiet. Obviously you might not feel right grabbing her ears and fucking her face until she pukes at first… lol. Every time you fuck her just go outside of your comfort zone a little bit more. Just keep pushing your personal boundaries. It doesn’t sound romantic, but girls don’t want to be fucked romantically… AT ALL. lol. That’s a total DLV move.”
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SF7psaTmo
      Challenge accepted…

  16. Good posting Andy.

    IAS asks:

    “As a married man (virgin groom) which is not willing to cheat, I would very much welcome ideas for how to test myself to acquire or verify an abundance mentality and test for fear of rejection (hoping Rollo has good ideas on this, giving that the default for single guys would be “spinning plates” which I can’t do if I remain faithful).”

    Rollo addressed that here:

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/

    Before I dig in here I think it’s important to bear in mind that the principles of Game do not change in an LTR, only the context does. Every behavior set, every frame control tenet, every aspect of amused mastery and even PUAs skills like Cocky & Funny are all vitally necessary, if not more necessary in an LTR. One of the greatest failings married men begin their nuptials with is starting from a position of Betaness. I’ve encountered, and counseled, far too many men with the same story; they entered into their LTR or marriage from a default position of being the “supportive” submissive partner only to discover Game later in their relationship and then fight the very uphill battle of convincing their spouse that they’ve ‘genuinely’ experienced a radical shift in their outlook and personalities.

    If all she’s ever known is the Beta you, convincing her you’ve gone Alpha is a tough road to hoe. An Alpha shift in an LTR is threatening to a woman who’s built a lifestyle around the predictability of the Beta guy she committed to. It stirs up the competition anxiety she’s been numbed to for a long time, and while that’s beneficial in prompting her genuine desire for you, it also upsets her sense of security. It’s for this reason that Beta men are reluctant to experiment with being more dominant; they carry over from their singlehood the same mistaken belief that women require comfort, familiarity and security in order to become intimate or “feel sexy”. They still fail to grasp, even in marriage, that sex by definition requires anxiety to be grounded in genuine desire. Sexual tension requires urgency.

    And don’t forget to read the sub-links in that essay.

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/25/imagination/

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/25/the-desire-dynamic/

  17. Good posting Andy.

    IAS asks:

    “As a married man (virgin groom) which is not willing to cheat, I would very much welcome ideas for how to test myself to acquire or verify an abundance mentality and test for fear of rejection (hoping Rollo has good ideas on this, giving that the default for single guys would be “spinning plates” which I can’t do if I remain faithful).”

    Rollo addressed that here:

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/

    Before I dig in here I think it’s important to bear in mind that the principles of Game do not change in an LTR, only the context does. Every behavior set, every frame control tenet, every aspect of amused mastery and even PUAs skills like Cocky & Funny are all vitally necessary, if not more necessary in an LTR. One of the greatest failings married men begin their nuptials with is starting from a position of Betaness. I’ve encountered, and counseled, far too many men with the same story; they entered into their LTR or marriage from a default position of being the “supportive” submissive partner only to discover Game later in their relationship and then fight the very uphill battle of convincing their spouse that they’ve ‘genuinely’ experienced a radical shift in their outlook and personalities.

    If all she’s ever known is the Beta you, convincing her you’ve gone Alpha is a tough road to hoe. An Alpha shift in an LTR is threatening to a woman who’s built a lifestyle around the predictability of the Beta guy she committed to. It stirs up the competition anxiety she’s been numbed to for a long time, and while that’s beneficial in prompting her genuine desire for you, it also upsets her sense of security. It’s for this reason that Beta men are reluctant to experiment with being more dominant; they carry over from their singlehood the same mistaken belief that women require comfort, familiarity and security in order to become intimate or “feel sexy”. They still fail to grasp, even in marriage, that sex by definition requires anxiety to be grounded in genuine desire. Sexual tension requires urgency.

    And don’t forget to read the sub-links in that essay:

    Rollo’s

    “Imagination” and

    “The Desire Dynamic”

    N.B: Rollo I did the usual three links to get into WordPress moderation for this comment the first time. So I redid it. Don’t release the first post.

  18. lh: “I will have to trust your experience with this kind of literature, but that is a very good argument.”

    Thanks. Well, I’m definitely not proud that I have some experience in this form of literature.
    But the least I can do is offer the benefit of that experience. 😛

    Fwiw, although I do think that wives should service their husbands regularly (and vice versa), but it can be very helpful (and definitely rewarding) to know what behaviors inspire attraction and which might have the opposite effect.
    A lot of this is NOT obvious, but has the type of effect on her libido that watching a woman wax her upper lip might have on a man.

  19. @ Shane

    Have you asked your wives what would make them feel more horny? Have you asked women what turns them on?

    Yeah, because women know so much about themselves. Like why they are depressed/cranky when they are about to have their period. Not. lolz

    I have been a pickup artist. I have observed women. Women say one thing and do another. They say that they hate jerks, yet always call the last man to dump them a “jerk”. Men accurately conclude that women like to sleep with jerks.

    There are two problems with asking women things about their sexual desire. First, women don’t understand themselves very well. They don’t know when they are aroused because they are so In the Moment ™. This is why they have problems with self-control. A man knows when he is aroused.

    Second, men and women speak different languages, so attempting to learn something about women by asking them leads to confusion.

    Check out my latest post: “Throwing Panties: Is Women’s Libido Primarily Cyclical or Opportunistic?”

    https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/throwing-panties-is-womens-libido-primarily-cyclical-or-opportunistic/

  20. @Shane

    Have you asked your wives what would make them feel more horny? Have you asked women what turns them on? Do you consider the womens perspective at all, besides a living fleshlight?

    Ah, another classic redirection. What comes next is… “Why aren’t you men listening to the words of women?!? You’re just treating us like objects because you don’t listen to what we say! And by the way, I am a woman so I can speak for what all women want so as to shame you all!”

    In truth, regardless of sex you shouldn’t listen to what anyone says and accept it blindly. So women asking for some special status wherein their words are not considered in light of their actions is actually asking for special permissions, not humane treatment. Men don’t treat men this way, so why should they treat women this way? When a man comes up to a man and makes all sorts of verbal claims, men generally trust, BUT VERIFY.

    Demanding that men ask and listen to the words of women on what they find attractive, without comparing those words to the actual actions of women, is demanding that men remain ignorant fools. Women coming onto a primarily male blog to spout such nonsense is akin to a Mormon man trolling a feminist website. Women who do this are behaving as the chauvinists of previous centuries. It’s basically no different than men preventing women from getting formal education many many years ago.

    Shane, you’re at a website where the actions of women, not their words, are considered at length. If this is frightening to you, then you’ve got some growing up to do.

  21. “It doesn’t sound romantic, but girls don’t want to be fucked romantically… AT ALL.”

    Now that I think about it you may need to mix some comfort in there too. I think it just depends on the chick. But overall the theme should be dominant.

  22. Andy – in my very limited experience “comfort” is best left for after the deed is done. Use the afterglow to your advantage if you think some comfort is required.

  23. @ Liz

    Thanks. Well, I’m definitely not proud that I have some experience in this form of literature.

    Some experience? Girl, you’ve bragged that you can do pornstar quality sex. [smirk]

    My T level is acting up again. I joined a weightlifting meetup to get access to a trainer on the cheap. I’ve been gaining weight (from muscle volume, I think) and my T level has been increasing again, I think. Being white, I have a high T-receptor count. My T level was also well above average last it was measured months ago.

    I’m trying to understand this chemistry thing. How can two people have chemistry over the internet when there’s no olfactory component? Obviously, a meetup would have to happen to confirm chemistry if you wanted to know if it was real or imagined.

  24. Reading what everyone has written on this post so far is awesome.

    The whole church thing. My experience was a bit different than others on here. I was raised in an “Old School” Southern Baptist church. Hypergamy still existed, but women shamed short term mating strategies & locked down Alpha husbands by cooking, cleaning, ect… I was a kid growing up in the 80’s and my family structure and friend structure were almost all stay at home moms or women who rarely worked.

    I didn’t see beta being pushed in different church’s that I’ve attended with girls I’ve dated until about 15 years ago. The “New Age” push I think affected a lot of them.

    I once wrote on Dalrock’s blog about how I’ve been to several pushing Beta Bucks. It’s funny, I was curious about my old church, and I went with my parents when I went back home. Still old school, where women are shamed if they don’t submit and follow traditional complimentary roles.

    Southern Baptists or anything Southern is constantly being attacked by institutions, media, ect…. Because it’s the last place with a mass concentration of women wanting to be complimentary instead of a blue haired bull dyke! The South also has the lock on potentially producing masculine acting men & feminine women, because of the mothers. I believe Rollo even mentioned about how Mrs. Tomassi made him drive and lead more. That’s actually really common. The South is a threat, so it’s population must be replaced. The Southern Baptist Europeans converted to Catholic Latinos, who fall in line with the hierarchy of obeying the new Pope(P.S. Jeremy I agree with you about him). This is the same thing happening in Europe now with the African Muslims. There are now growing crime rates, more baby mamas, and last year I got Whooping Cough. Fucking Whooping Cough!!!! My doc joked with me about being Marty McFly and going back in time to the Dakotas in the 1870’s.

  25. It seems uncontroversial women like the sex rough. They enjoy being coldly used as sex toys.

    Could any of the “women don’t really fancy jerkboy-assholes, only men like to think so”-proponents explain to me why the women’s arousal should be any different in and out of bed?

    Of course the FI wants to separate those 2, so women can get both the control and the arousing sex. I know my sister makes rules for her man the whole day but she also asked him to beat her in the face while having sex. It suits women’s needs and the “dominant lover” is again little more than a servant in bed.

  26. @rugby11ljh: Anytime bruv!

    Have one on me for this: “By changing myself I’ve noticed that everyone I grew up with it dosnt know me anymore.”

    This is very true. Guys and women raised by the FI and still enslaved by it epitomise the crab-in-a-bucket mentality….Like zombies, when they start seeing that alpha aura develop they make every effort to pull you back in. “Join us, join us!” “NAWALT!” “christianity is not feminized”, “lean in”, “sex is not important”, “A mother’s love” “A woman’s love..” and so on ad infinitum…

    Family, friends…it’s really scary, especially to the newly RP initiated, the efforts, lengths the BP-FI ‘proletariat’ will strive to re-educate someone who wakes up….

    Fortunately once you get through the initial phases, there really is nothing that beats basking in red pill sunlight…NOTHING!

    There’s a Wu-Tang intro, from the Wu-Tang Forever album where someone says “Heaven is what you make it, hell is what you go through!”

    This to me is red pill truth to the core, the red pill is heaven on earth. What comes comes after, if there is an after, is concretely decided in what we do here & now….

    #fuckbitchesgetmoneylivelifetothefullest

    PS: THANK.YOU.ROLLO!!!!!

  27. @IAS:

    “even prior to learning about Red Pill I was swimming occasionally and doing other sports where there are indeed lots of young women around (like yoga, although I wasn’t in it for the women). I’m shy around strangers though so usually I was just there doing my thing and not interacting much.

    Now I’m also going to the gym and lifting weights to get stronger.”

    Brilliant! It’s never for women, well….sensei did a post on this. Fact is being in good shape, ripped gets you attention from women…so there it is.
    I understand the shyness, all I’m saying is once in a while, place yourself in situations where there are single, attractive, possibly younger, women….and still do your thing. However, spare a glance here or there and a smile, draw them in, entertain them, act like ‘if they are good girls they could get a taste’ (Good girls do!)…flirt, or at least try to to gain confidence….get the numbers, delete if you feel the need to.

    Then leave. Sometimes it’s what you don’t say (or do), all it may take is just a look…

    Y’get me? Don’t know if I’m making sense, or giving good advice, maybe my fellow men can contribute…read the links that SJF proposed!

    Also what Andy said:

    ” Personally I think you can do it without cheating. Here’s the mindset… If she’s optimizing her hypergamy with you then you are a man that knows that he could have a better woman. You need to get into this mindset. She NEEDS you to be in this mindset. It is absolutely necessary that you get there for the health of the marriage….

    Don’t wait for her to initiate. If you’re horny and want to fuck her brains out Don’t Hide IT. Show her. Look deep into her eyes with that look like you are losing control of yourself. Grab her hair and kiss her like you can’t take it anymore. Then just take her…..She’ll LOVE it.”

    Work up that sweat, get in the mood and basically go home and make her sweat…bend her over your dining table, couch, sink, whatever just go and DO her!!

  28. @The ASD Gamer: “They say that they hate jerks, yet always call the last man to dump them a “jerk”.”

    Men accurately conclude that women are unreliable witnesses, therefore they, the men, know nothing about the last man. Look at the man she is with now. That man’s behaviour is going to be that of a “jerk” the second he dumps her.

    This is how you find out what women mean by “jerk.” It may not match your definition at all.

    @Tedd: Get a flexible tape. If your waist is going down while your weight is going up, some reasonable percentage of it is muscle.

    This is a crude method, but it’s easier on you than an autopsy:

    http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator.asp?Calc=Body-Fat-Navy

    Make your measurements in the morning, after you’ve evacuated, but before you ingest anything.

  29. KFG – think you got me mixed up there. I’m still working some pudge off my middle, but that has been a work in progress for awhile now. Went from 400lbs + pre-divorce down to 230. Then quit smoking and shot back to 250. Getting this weight off is proving harder than the first run, but I can breath again so that’s a bonus!

    At any rate I measure mostly by the size pants that fit. I got down to 38’s, but now I’m in fucking 44’s. Gotta step up my exercise and get back below 230 so I can chat with a doc about all the excess flab I have in awkward places. Lol

  30. @benfromtexas

    ” The whole church thing. My experience was a bit different than others on here. I was raised in an “Old School” Southern Baptist church. Hypergamy still existed, but women shamed short term mating strategies & locked down Alpha husbands by cooking, cleaning, ect… I was a kid growing up in the 80’s and my family structure and friend structure were almost all stay at home moms or women who rarely worked.

    I didn’t see beta being pushed in different church’s that I’ve attended with girls I’ve dated until about 15 years ago. The “New Age” push I think affected a lot of them.

    I once wrote on Dalrock’s blog about how I’ve been to several pushing Beta Bucks. It’s funny, I was curious about my old church, and I went with my parents when I went back home. Still old school, where women are shamed if they don’t submit and follow traditional complimentary roles.

    Southern Baptists or anything Southern is constantly being attacked by institutions, media, ect…. Because it’s the last place with a mass concentration of women wanting to be complimentary instead of a blue haired bull dyke! The South also has the lock on potentially producing masculine acting men & feminine women, because of the mothers. ”

    I cosign this 100%.

    This has been my experience also.

    I also strongly agree about the South being under fire in the media and by institutions. There is a slightly sinister flavor to all of that.

    My only significant experiences in church have been in old school, Southern Baptist settings and I find many of other men’s experiences in church troubling to put it mildly.

  31. @Tedd: ” think you got me mixed up there.”

    You’re right, that was to ASD Gamer as well.

    ” I can chat with a doc about all the excess flab I have . . .”

    You can, but he’s about the last person you should chat with. He’s a medical doctor. Not a trainer, nutritionist or physiologist.

    Start by reading everything here:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

  32. Can’t really address this post other than to share that my only personal experiences with self-described ‘Serious Christian’ girls. All four different born-agains I sampled were attempting to mitigate their completely obvious cock addictions/hypergamous excesses with an ex-post-facto sitz bath in the cleansing blood of the lamb.

    MY WET PENIS’ RESEARCH FINDINGS: The Good Shepherd didn’t work out all that well for them in that regard.

  33. AWALT. I would posit that even a great many of the most devout young Muslim women will rip off their burqas/chadors and behave quite differently if you take them away from the baleful stares of their peers and throw them into Rollo’s hypothetical Cancun foam cannon.

    Things will “just happen.” OOPS. Which is why, from a straight-up PUA perspective, that ‘isolation’ is so important to the seduction process.

  34. ASD in deeply religious girls makes their tingles increase by magnitudes both before AND after the barricade ultimately crumbles. That was my experience in every case I personally witnessed (pun intended)—so I can hardly believe it to be anomalous.

    Guess I had more to say on this topic than I originally thought. lol

  35. Just perused Aunt Giggles latest offering…holy shit is the Beta Bucks theme making headway.

    Seems like a whole cohort of gen Xs and Ys are pulling the rip cord on the CC and are now ready to settle with Mr Good Enough but the slumlords have infected the minds of the middling betas.

    The comments are hilarious, they want men with options…

    If it wasn’t for the map provided by the good captain Rollo I think I would have sailed off the end of the earth by now.

  36. @ Diplomat

    So, ASD heightens the sexual tension in seriously religious girls? Does that make sex with them better? If so, I guess that atheist girls are in the shitter.

  37. KFG – you misunderstand. I was so big I have a lot of “extra” skin around. (thankfully my neck does not look like a vagina like not-so-fat Bastard in Austin Powers. lol) But before I talk about any kind of surgical fix (which I’m not 100% sold on yet anyway), I need to be in better physical shape. I’ve been at it for several years, but it took me a long time to pack all that ass on. And this is a marathon, not a sprint.

    I found a pic of myself with the ex the year prior to our divorce, and I almost didn’t recognize myself. I was wearing size 58/60 pants. Stretched out wide that shit fills a standard doorway!

  38. Like a few others here, such as Beefy Lev, I’m a practicing Catholic. To say the Church here in America and the West is not infested by feminism and the FI is laughable. Heck, I just discerned out of seminary and even there it’s still obvious and present. Yes, the faith is not compatible and speaks against it, but in practice it is ignored. Similar to the issue of contraception, the Church is against it but a majority of Catholic women use it anyway. Does the USCCB say anything? Nope, and heck, good old Pope a dope Francis said we should drop the issue anyway…along with telling us to dialogue with Bishops and laity who have such heterodox positions that they warrent excommunication rather than dialogue.

    I have trouble finding masculine men in the church. Thankfully some of the guys going in to seminary are more masculine than average, but they are a small minority at this time. Young men and women at my parish have more sympathy to RP but the middle aged and older are fully BP and FI supporters, and they are still in charge…for now.

    I was told by my pastor to avoid the phrase “church militant” because some would find the term offensive. Parishioners fought against recitation of the St. Michael prayer after Mass had ended because the prayer was “too Islamophobic”. I had congregants file complaints that I used a Latin hymn at a Mass because Latin reminded them of the “bad old days” and then tell me – I shit you not – that Latin was no longer the language of the Church. A women’s book group filled with old crones and their whipped husbands gets together at the parish to whine about no womenpriests and other heretical nonsense. I moved to have them banned from using the parish facilities for their group until they could agree to drop their heterodox views…pastor refused. I made him attend their conference where they had a womenpriest guest speaker attending. She railed for an hour against the patriarchal Church and the evil priesthood while he sat in the front row. Did that finally convince him to ban them? Nope. And my boss and pastor is more masculine than most of the other local priests. As I like to say, who needs female priests when you can barely find a pair of balls amongst the entire College of Cardinals.

  39. @Durandel Almiras
    A few points:
    What kind of Catholic disrespects the Pope? :/
    I wouldn’t say anyone in my church is RP. Catholicism isn’t really compatible with TRP, imo. Have you read the writings of Pope John Paul II?
    No one should be banned from church.

  40. What’s she like pushing 60 now? Poor girl needs grandkids to occupy her, but I don’t see ’em coming soon.

    Maybe she should try having Shane as a guest blogger. Between the two of them they could totally savage the mistaken idea that women want, need, and demand fried ice…

  41. ” Catholicism isn’t really compatible with TRP, imo.”

    More and more, day by day, your opinions look like shit.

  42. @Durandel Almiras

    You’ll see our little Emily is an example of the problems you describe.

    Of course she thinks people shouldn’t be banned from the church. It fits her agenda and feminist leanings. She proudly states that no one in HER church is RP, as if that were a good thing.

    The girl is an example of the viral infection in churches nowadays.

  43. “Try apprehending an aeronautical fornication . . .”

    As I’ve had a poor history of giving one, I might as well have a go at that.

    ” . . . at an oscillating pastry.”

    I’m a celiac, you insensitive clod.

  44. @Ben from Texas:

    Normally I can’t resist a straight line, but this one makes me nervous. I might end up in Texas again some day.

  45. @SHane: “Have you asked your wives what would make them feel more horny? Have you asked women what turns them on? Do you consider the womens perspective at all, besides a living fleshlight?”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHAAH!!!!

    WAIT! Ask her what turns her on? Ask her what she wants. Damn, why didn’t I think of that? That sounds like a GREAT idea! Let’s just ASK our women what it is they want. Then they can just TELL us and we can do it! Well fuck me in the butt, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea. What could go wrong. I would give you less than a failing grade if only it were possible.

    Some of what Rollo writes about has only observational, not much scientific support. This idea that women HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT TURNS THEM ON is supported by a HUGE amount of scientific research. Google plythesmagraph

  46. @kfg

    you’re incensed about pastries? Try being a former brewer with that celiac shit. In (possibly) the most exciting city to be a brewer in the world, currently.

    I still have a vintage Angel’s Envy in my basement waiting for some event epic enough that I won’t care about being sick for a week after drinking it.

  47. @Emily

    A few points:

    Why do I have a feeling that zero points are about to be made?

    What kind of Catholic disrespects the Pope? :/

    That’s as stupid as asking “What kind of American disrespects the President?” I only have to follow that twit on St. Peter’s seat on matters of the faith. There is no Alien & Sedition Act on the Canon Law books that orders me to abstain from criticizing that radically progressive shitheel. And on matters outside of the faith, like gun ownership, I can politely ignore him and go buy more ammo.

    I wouldn’t say anyone in my church is RP. Catholicism isn’t really compatible with TRP, imo.

    Typical SJW. Thinks objective matters can be made subject to subjective whims like emotion. Who knew Scripture and Apostolic Tradition can just be changed by a woman’s emotions? Enlightening. I just can’t imagine why St. Paul didn’t want women teaching the faith.

    No one should be banned from church.

    Well shit, too bad you weren’t around right after Pentecost. Poor Ananias and Sapphira, and Simon Magus could have been spared from that big meanie St. Peter if only you had been around to tell him how God wants it.

    @Blaximus – you nailed it brother.

  48. @kfg, asd

    ha, I’m keeping my chin up about it. I’m actually experimenting with malted rice beers currently, which to my knowledge has never been tried before (sake rice isn’t malted, and beers like asahi use synthetic rice products as their adjuncts, giving very different flavors). Very promising flavor characteristics, but there’s a few enzymatic issues we have to resolve yet. Mixing millet in may prove the solution, we’ll see.

    I like sake a lot. But holy hell is it a pain to make. It has you up 2 times a night for 12 days kneading some crazy fungus mixture that has to stay at exactly 87 degrees or else. Ask me how I know.

    There are local rural rice wines throughout SE asia that are easier to make, but I’m having difficulty sourcing viable microbes to make that work. They’re kinda obscure.

  49. I wouldn’t say anyone in my church is RP. Catholicism isn’t really compatible with TRP, imo.

    That was my impression of Catholicism too. My parents are very religious and I got to know it all during my upbringing (until I rebelled against it). I never saw a masculine man in church, the priests least of all. Current priest at my parents community is a vain faggot (of course not open) who wants to flirt with me every time we meet.

    And it’s not only the people still going to church, Catholic ideology is in my opinion beta to the core. In Catholicism the old testament is not that important. The old harsh God got replaced by a nice guy. “If someone beats you on the left cheek, let him beat your right cheek too”. It’s all about being nice, not aggressive, sacrifice for others and of course respecting authorities. In my opinion Christianity had a way bigger intellectual influence leading to the betaisation of men and society than for example Jung.

    Closest to an RP alpha man in Christianity is the devil. Which is no wonder if you understand Christianity was an ideology or social system allowing Betas to get wives.

    This goes very deep spiritually. Submitting to God means shifting your MPO to God. It’s a tool for people not strong enough to be their own MPO. And this aspect is present in any of the religions coming from the old testament. Look at Abraham: What a spineless weakling going to sacrifice his son because some God wanted him to. I mean what else could one answer to such a request but “Fuck you, from my dead cold hands only!” And I bet Odysseus and many other ancient heroes would agree.

  50. ^Agreed!
    Catholicism just isn’t very RP. We place high value on celibacy, including and perhaps especially male celibacy, whereas TRP glorifies and often encourages promiscuity (but only male promiscuity, naturally.) The Church focuses far more on spiritual than earthly matters. Particularly in marriage. Where does the Catechism preach dominance and control? JPII wrote an amazing book about the Catholic position on the dynamic of males and females, ‘love and responsibility.’ Once you read that, you realize that Catholicism is incompatible with TRP.

  51. Shouldn’t you sleep, Emily? =P

    Gonna add another point: The opposite of love isn’t hate but fear. Love kills the fear, that’s what the love of God is good for. “The lord is my guide and I will not be harmed”. Love is the solipsistic solution to fear. It’s probably the same mechanism letting women submit to the terrifying Alpha: Loving him will not change anything about how things are, but it will stop the fear. Women do that automatically. So do hostages (“Stockholm Syndrom”). And so do Christian men.

    You cannot seriously advocate for the solipsistic solution in favor of the rational approach of gaining more power to overcome what makes you afraid, don’t you?

  52. Caveclown: “My single mother neighbor has a jesus fish sticker AND one that says, “if you’re going to ride my ass at least pull my hair”

    I had to go back and read this post because this morning I saw this very thing right in front of me while I was dropping one of my sons off at school! Upper right, a fish sticker with a biblical quote and down and to the middle, the “pull my hair” one. This is strangely coincidental.
    Are we nieghbors or is this a “thing” now? Buy one Jesus sticker get a pull-my-hair one free?

  53. After reading the chapter on honor in Donovan’s The Way of Men I now “think” I get more of what some of you have been writing about. A few more dots connected…and a few more ugly layers to peel away to be replaced by being good at being a man.

    I feel a bit like I did back in July when I first stumbled onto this site. Raw, like I was a walking open wound and a terrible sense I’ve been doing it all wrong. It’s awfully uncomfortable to look into the mirror after your eyes open a bit more.

    Fuck….

  54. @ Emily

    TRP glorifies and often encourages promiscuity (but only male promiscuity, naturally.)

    An interesting claim. TRP encourages men to act in their own benefit because western culture gives women a major advantage when it comes to sex since women are no longer corralled.

    The Church focuses far more on spiritual than earthly matters. Particularly in marriage.

    Didn’t you claim in the same comment that the RC encourages celibacy? How is that not an earthly matter? And how is sex in marriage not an earthly matter?

    TRP deals primarily with earthly matters. If the RC deals mostly with spiritual matters, how can TRP and the RC be in conflict?

    It seems to me that the RC doesn’t care much about hypergamy or men or sexual sin which is predominant in today’s culture and in the RC. The same goes for most all churches. And yet I believe, but I don’t care to discuss why I believe. I don’t believe in the churches.

  55. “I had to go back and read this post because this morning I saw this very thing right in front of me while I was dropping one of my sons off at school! Upper right, a fish sticker with a biblical quote and down and to the middle, the “pull my hair” one. This is strangely coincidental.
    Are we nieghbors or is this a “thing” now? Buy one Jesus sticker get a pull-my-hair one free?”

    Maybe we are neighbors, tell me where you live and I’ll tell you if I live there too…lol

    I think its a “born again virgin” thing.

    Makes me think I should go back to church.

  56. “……and a few more ugly layers to peel away…..”

    Sorry to rub salt in your wounds too, Roused, but I suppose it’s painful to see your son seek honor among the feminine (in his family, in school and in you his father–who didn’t abdicate to the feminine imperative enough in marriage–rather than honor among men.

  57. Wow. Just wandered over to HUS. ROFL they have no idea that what they describe as a high value man is a farce. So they want Brad Pitt, but only if he only has sex in committed relationships. So hot guys that only have sex within the confines of commitment…

    The description practically describes most of my entire life (minus super hot looks lol) and I’ll say it: based on attitude alone I wouldn’t have given a single one of the commenters a chance. Why? If I’m going through the trouble of “controlling my urges” I’m going to want more than they are offering in exchange. And I confidently say that having NO IDEA what they look like. HB10 with a shitty attitude is still a bitch. She’s just a hot bitch.

  58. Having dread is good, it has a strong effect, but it is temporary. Men can spend so much time with their women and their kids. Men cannot impose their will onto their women and kids, using dread alone. They need a “frame” prepared by the “village” for them to adopt and for women to enter to. When you have both government and religion abdicate any formal “frame”, men are going to have a hard time managing their relationships.

    1. @ETA, good observation. While I am a proponent of instilling Dread (Passive Dread being the preference), it’s important to remember that Dread is a tool and a part of a Red Pill aware lifestyle. Dread itself is not a lifestyle.

  59. Ted,

    How about the article on HUS recommending people put their credit scores in their online dating profiles?

    Apparently a low credit score shows that a man is more likely to want casual sex and is less likely to commit.

    From HUS;

    “Another study found that “Individuals who have intercourse in the context of hookups are differentiated by high impulsivity, low concern for personal safety, low dependency, their erotic approach to relationships and an avoidant attachment style.” (Paul, McManus and Hayes, 1999)

    Clearly, the inability to defer gratification through saving should be a massive red flag. Maturity requires the clear distinction between wants and needs.”

    1. @CaveClown, I’m all for women being required to post their credit debt load on their online dating profiles.

      Since most Beta men will be sharing that “community debt” after he proves he’s not a ‘commit-o-phobe’, does the right thing and marries the girl, he should be entitled to full disclosure of the financial obligations he’ll be signing on for.

      He’s entitled to know about the student debt (Emily) he’ll be assuming and the credit card expenses for the Spring Break vacations, swimsuits, cute shoes and lingerie she bought in order to keep the 2 or 3 Alphas around before they lost interest in her during her party years.

      Oh yes, I’m all for adding full credit debt reports on women’s dating profiles. Combine this with the Open Hypergamy push and there’ll be far less “never saw it coming” Betas ignorant of women’s opportunistic concept of love.

  60. @theasdgamer:

    “And submitting to a superior officer in the military means shifting your MPO to that officer.”

    There is still a difference between accepting orders regarding how to do your job and submitting. But I stated several times now I don’t consider military people as Alpha at all. Sacrificing yourself for your country and taking orders to do so is deeply Beta. (I hear you Rollo, Alpha is a mindset and I agree, but a lot of practice in some mindset makes it a personality trait.) There are reasons any thug-mass-murderer can decorate his prison cell in love-letters and marriage proposals while many veterans end up lonely, broken, suicidal. And I never heard the generals getting those love letters neither.

  61. @Cave: When it comes to being a provider, sure. But if you want to have “intercourse in the context of hookups” that study could be interpreted as a recommendation to fake your credit-rating down or hide it. Remember YaReally explaining the difference between lover and provider and the necessity to disqualify oneself as provider?

  62. CaveClown – credit score? No in didn’t look around too much. I don’t want a headache…

    Do you see the “Emily” attitude on display though? She would fit right in lol.

  63. “@Cave: When it comes to being a provider, sure. But if you want to have “intercourse in the context of hookups” that study could be interpreted as a recommendation to fake your credit-rating down or hide it. Remember YaReally explaining the difference between lover and provider and the necessity to disqualify oneself as provider?”

    Hence my short guy joke.

    This is why I say shit like, “I’m head fry cook at burger king” (h/t to the CH)

    Or, “I’ve been unemployed for 8 years” (also h/t to the CH)

  64. Funny thing is how it works in the female brain. One would think capability to provide doesn’t harm qualities as a lover and a good lover with money on top would be even better. But female thinking is very different. For them a potential lover is a nice thing to enjoy sex. But as soon as there is some price she can ask for the sex, she will and there will be no “free sex”.

  65. @CaveClown

    A woman’s credit score also shows that she has the potential to ruin your finances. Along with amount of debt and youth indiscretions, these three are big red flags for me.

  66. There is still a difference between accepting orders regarding how to do your job and submitting. But I stated several times now I don’t consider military people as Alpha at all.

    How about if you’re an employee? At least part of the day you have to be beta, if submitting to authority means that you’re beta. And when a cop stops you or you’re in court, you have to submit to the authority. Beta in certain contexts.

  67. How about if you’re an employee? At least part of the day you have to be beta, if submitting to authority means that you’re beta.

    I keep accidentally AMOG’ing my boss lately. I can’t help myself. He hesitates and my instincts kick in. Need to work on that.

  68. The difference is if you submit to the authority for your own well-being (like with the cops or courts) and only for some short time only to regain or keep your freedom after. Giving a shit about morals or honor to save yourself and pursue your goals is very Alpha. The point is to follow your own goals.

    Employment is another issue. I think an Alpha can join some hierarchy at low ranks, but it will always be with the goal to rise to the top and be only temporarily acceptable. But in truth the Alphas I know all started their own business to be their own boss or they didn’t join the race for money at all.

  69. Cooperating for the purpose of achieving a common goal in the context of heirarchical employment is not “submission” per se.

  70. Dread is even a natural part of a RedPill aware lifestyle. Even if you don’t fuck your other plates, just spinning plates in your mind, keeping your eyes and mind open for some better women, will mostly induce enough Dread I think. They sense these things.

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