Slut Walkers & Soccer Moms
This picture has been making the rounds on Face Book recently. Last I looked it’d been shared about 89,000 times from the source I pulled it from. For the most part, what passes for some organized debate in most comment threads about this centered on a conflict between two factions of women – the responsible mothers and the ‘Slut Walk’ feministas faction of the femosphere.
Yes, ‘responsible mothers’ and Soccer Moms are in fact a very vocal part of the Feminine Imperative’s sphere of social control. It’s a mistake to believe women of a feminist bent are the only driving factor in influencing a feminine-primary social order. It’s not just grrrl-power demi-lesbians with fuschia hair, it’s that sensibly dressed lady in Target too. As I mentioned in last weeks post, Peak Hypergamy is yet to be settled, but until then the women who’s sexual strategy would best be served by keeping the ugliness of it secret will be at odds with women who proudly embrace open Hypergamy with gusto.
It’s easy to apply our Red Pill lens for such things as TV shows, popular music and media, and see the social undercurrent messaging of the Feminine Imperative, but there are some more subtle instances that need a proper lens focus on them. One trapping of the Red Pill lens is that aware men often overlook the more personal, more localized influence of the Feminine Imperative when they see the most public displays of it.
I’ve stated in prior posts that if you took a roomful of God-fearing traditionalist women and asked them if they identified as feminists the answers would range from “No” to a resounding “Hell no!” However, if you asked them specifics of how a woman’s role in society should be defined, what a woman’s obligations to a man ought to be, or in what way women’s influence in should be expressed in our culture (westernizing), then you would get your real answer.
Most traditionalist women would be appalled to be associated with anything bearing the Feminist® brand name, but still find themselves carrying the same flag when it comes to their rationalized beliefs. The ‘Sisterhood’ comes before all other considerations – be they politics, religion or personal interests – the Feminine Imperative is the common thread that underscores all intrasexual relations with women.
Tribe of the Sisterhood
In a social context, a principle strength of the Feminine Imperative is a presupposed, tribalistic sense of intrasexual belonging amongst women that transcends politics, race identity, religious conviction and ideology. We euphemistically refer to this dynamic as the sisterhood, but this female ‘belonging’ shares it’s roots in our foraging evolutionary past. Thus, women from starkly different cultures or socio-economic tiers still share that common theme of pre-known ‘oppression’ by the nebulous patriarchy.
One problem I have with recent rise of self-styled anti-feminist “Red Pill Women” is that while on the surface it appears that they are “pro-men”, the real impetus is that they are “anti-feminists”. In other words, their primary concern becomes one of opposing the methods and ideologies of how best to assert the influences of the Feminine Imperative they both ultimately serve. The common tribalism of the sisterhood is still present, but the applications of how best to instrument it is the source of that conflict.
This is what I believe we’re witnessing in debates of this nature; it is a conflict between women who’d be better served by keeping men confused and in doubt of the mechanics of Hypergamy versus women who believe they’d be better served in openly and proudly embracing Hypergamy. This is the primary reason women despise other women who are openly ‘Gold Diggers’ or ‘Attention Whores’, or even prostitutes – their method of optimizing their own hypergamous interests reveals their sex’s larger sexual strategy which they’d rather men not fully comprehend (until such time as they are ready to consolidate on men’s commitment).
It’s important that Red Pill men not be fooled into thinking that ‘traditionalist’ women are in anyway less predisposed to the influences of their sex’s imperatives. They’re not unique or better suited to a feminine role because of their ideology, they simply can’t afford to have sexual rivals with different methodologies competing for the same optimization of Hypergamy.
Social Saturation
This may seem an unlikely way to address the core issue of this notice to school administrators, but read me out here. There are two presumptions implied in this message. The first is the presumption that these school-age girls are being shamed by expecting them to adhere to some modicum of dressing to a certain standard – a standard they can expect once they exit school as well I should add.
The second is that these girls wearing shorts that are too short, and bra straps so noticeable as to draw attention from school administrators (God forbid a male teacher make such a judgement call) would be more concerned with the their educational prospects than influencing the boys in their environment is questionable.
And lastly the presumption is that boys of a certain age should be taught to control themselves to counter their synaptic wiring and biochemical responses and not ‘objectify’ the girls who take it upon themselves to dress provocatively.
These are relatively easy assessments to make about the intent of this note, however, what both factions of women debating this presume is a condition of feminine primacy. The feminine presumption is one that this school is nominally founded in male primacy – the girls distract the boys with their advertised sexuality – but the expectation is one based in the male Burden of Performance.
While it’s important for men to have an objective understanding of their burden of performance, it’s equally important for men to realize that women understand the utility of that burden and put it to their own opportunistic ends. In a feminine-primary perspective that burden translates into these boys needing to be taught to act against their biological impetus.
The shaming isn’t about girls having their education interrupted for wearing booty shorts or their tits pushed up by exposed bras; the implied shame is that these boys are not being instructed to understand that their burden is one of controlling the very biology that compels them to distraction. In a feminine-primary context the real “shame” should be on the boys who see girls (who are signaling sexual cues) as the sexual objects these girls are intentionally making of themselves.
The implied prioritization of undistracted education is presumed to be focused towards the males in the class, but the reality is that this education is taking place in a feminine-primary environment that is being inconvenienced by social standards.
The Feminine Expectation of Performance
Instead of adapting to the realities of their environment, women expect men to accommodate their sexual strategies and incorporate them into their accepted burden of performance.
CH maxim: The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality
This goal is eminently more achievable when men are taught that it is an aspect of their Burden of Performance to self-restrict their sexuality for a feminine-primary purpose. It was recently brought up in last week’s comments that the rise in unfettered, openly acknowledged Hypergamy is (or is becoming) a comparable condition to men’s unrestricted sexuality. The contrast of course was flipping the script and considering what the results would be if it were men who’s sexual strategy was unrestricted to the degree Hypergamy has currently.
In an exaggerated feminine-primary context, women like to believe this was once the case. Granted the apex fallacy is rife in that presumption, but the Feminine Imperative needs to establish a preexisting notion that women must necessarily suffer in a masculine-primary social order. That’s the presumptive social context this note was crafted in. The truth of the matter is that the Feminine Imperative cannot afford for both women and men to believe anything different if it is to remain the primary social influence.
This presumption is what brings women of conflicting ideological bents together in solidarity despite their disagreements; there is always a common enemy, a common opposition, in the belief that it’s men who are calling the shots for them. And as I said, this apex fallacy presumption is universal in that it transcends ideology and religious convictions. Thus we see similar social conventions used to maximally restrict male sexuality in those same institutions.
Holistic Game had an interesting take on this restriction this week:
I was raised Southern Baptist, then moved on to some form of megachurch-style evangelical Christianity in high school. I felt that sex before marriage was sinful, that lust was evil, and that the female body was a source of lurid temptation. It was a constant struggle not to look at porn. I remember being in a men’s young adult service when I was 24 and the pastor asked, with heads bowed, if any man in the room hadn’t looked at porn. I peeked and realized no one had raised their hand – every man in the room had indulged at some point. Though I couldn’t grasp it at the time, I’ve since come to understand that there is no point in repressing natural human desire.
I certainly couldn’t contain my urges forever, and ended up losing my virginity later that year. I was teaching guitar to a hot blonde beach babe a couple years older than me, and we got drinks one night. We fooled around, tipsily, and after a few weeks of on-and-off gropings I finally decided to fuck her. After the act was completed, I sat on her deck and looked at the ocean and searched myself. I never imagined the staining of my chastity happening in such a fashion, but I had to face the reality that it had happened. I tried to be honest with myself, and to my surprise, I found that I didn’t feel guilty. At all. The one thing I’d tried to save, that seemed to matter so much to God and his plans, I’d wasted on a stupid blonde I’d end up dumping. I should have felt overwhelmed by holy conviction, but didn’t feel anything but normality. I felt like I was finally part of the human race. This lack of guilt was the crack in the foundation that eventually led to the shattering of the whole rotten edifice.
Holistic expounds on this experience into doubting the existence of God (which I honestly think is a shame), but it’s important to understand how this presumptive state of male social primacy, and the necessity to mandate chastity as a man’s Burden of Performance has effects that go well beyond a man self-limiting his participation in his sexual strategy.
I think a necessary stage in becoming Red Pill aware is truly understanding not just our preconditioning, but the social environment that condition takes place within. This acknowledgement needs to take place in order to really unplug; it cannot simply be an acceptance that a guy was raised into his Blue Pill circumstance, he must also recognize the social conditions he’s still operating within, and he must recognize how to avoid the pitfalls and make the changes he wants to see in that world.
In a Blue Pill, feminine-primary social order plugged in men are left to participate in two institutions: jails and churches. I can imagine the frustration Red Pill men must feel when they see their friends trapped in those institutions. They see their friends in an endless tail-chasing of a performance of their own doing, but a result of their ‘teachers’ investing it in them. They contort in an endless self-expectation to be better men by self-defeating the essence that make them men. Then they are punished for the slightest infraction of acceding to that male essence, not so much by the women they hope to perform for, but rather a disappointment in themselves for not living up to what they believe are their own self-developed expectations of a standard that only serves the feminine.
Yes I know my enemies, they’re the teachers who taught me to fight me.
@Kid – I quote – “Learn what? I didn’t do anything wrong or make any mistakes. I expressed my interest” – Listen up, you are doing way too much talking and not enough listening. You utterly fucked this approach up. First mistake? Expressing interest. What you want to do is fan the little ember of her interest. Expressing interest lowers your value in her eyes, you become easily available and that lowers your value. And you blew the shit test badly. But you set yourself up for it by telling her you were doing nothing this weekend. Tell her instead… Read more »
I think the difference you see here between what IB said and what KK said is generational. The older generation still seems to want to hide women’s sexuality behind this veneer of “wanting protection, provision, confidence” and so on, while the younger generation is up front about its raw, animal, visceral sexuality, which has nothing much at all to do with protection or provision, and is often raw and physical in nature. The openness about this is generational, and it runs hand in hand with the openness about hypergamy in action. It’s a generational difference, I think, among women.
heir premise that college educated women are only interested in comparable men is blatantly false. A 24 year old college educated female in the U.S. is fucking her weed dealer who looks like Kid Rock (purple eyelids and all). The “creepy” computer science majors and engineers aren’t even on her radar, and if they try to talk to her they’re going to be labelled stalkers. It’s not that there are not enough available men (because there obviously are) it’s just that the available ones are not up to their standards. The thing is that analyses like that look at marrying… Read more »
@Lucien – So what is your formula for success? Please share it with me as I’m hopelessly misguided I guess, lol. But oh yeah, I tried the tradcon thing for 50 years and got my liver ripped out and turned into a hat that the women in my life wore on their heads while they shit down my throat. You don’t want to fuck hot women? You don’t want multiples of them? Bullshit. You also assume I can’t have meaningful relationships with them, which is ridiculous. What I bring to the table is real value to these women and real… Read more »
@ Kid True, being funny gets girls, I’m a huge sucker for funny guys. I was just pointing out that laughing at the type of everyday, not-really-funny but mildly jokey every day comments that men make is not an actual sign of sexual interest, especially in a customer service context. And it’s been well-proven in psychological research that men generally mistake everyday friendliness and smiling for attraction from women. @ Badpainter I can’t explain what’s going on with facial muscles, not much I think. It’s a non-smiling penetrating gaze, usually looking up from a tilted down head or looking to… Read more »
If being funny got you laid you’d see guys like Louie Anderson, Danny De Vito and Louis CK, swimming in top shelf pussy.
It’s value added only if you’ve got a cocky & funny Alpha appeal to begin with.
@scribblerg
Who the fuck is this guy?
Watch your tone with the other brothers, big boy.
LOL, scribble this playa
Thanks Kate.
@Srib – lol not a grandpa yet, and hoping it stays that way for a few. I spent about 6 years getting less than 5 pity fucks a calendar. I’ve been desperate. But man, what the fuck would I do with a 25yo hottie after bed? My oldest is 21 and her friends although very attractive are vapid, naive, and shallow. I know you may not get this, but I enjoy having real conversations with my wife. No 21 year old gives a shit about politics, religion, or philosophy. My wife cares enough to at least know something about it.… Read more »
No disrespect for your lifestyle, but it ain’t for me.
I’d love that lifestyle but I’m not going to give up my kids. Sigh. Instead I’ll just work my wife for threesomes or something.
Loving the Beta White Knights here. Keep on riding your high horses fellas
I don’t know why you think you’re so fucking awesome. You write like you’re begging for validation.
@Rollo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IXLFPLqqf5E
And oh yeah, on the “seductive stare” lol, I just have to laugh. IOIs (indications of interest) come in many forms. The overt, “fuck me, fuck me, fuck me” look is only one of them. But even then, it’s a vaporous, ephemeral thing that any good Blue Pill or Beta guy can kill in a second by opening his mouth and letting his thirst talk. Best thing to do when a chick looks at you like that? After meeting her gaze solidly, turn to speak to another woman or a male friend. Make her wonder why it is you don’t… Read more »
@Tedd – Got it. As for what you do with a 25 yo after, the answer is whatever you want. I have a 27 yr old daughter, and no, I’m not going to be bringing a 25 yo to the family barbecue. But here’s the thing. Young women are with older guys like me BECAUSE I’m prequalified for short term mating. They often tell me they are sick of the young guys because “they catch feelings for me”, lol. The younger guys can’t deal with the fact that they are on the cock carousel. I get it and just want… Read more »
@ Kid ScribblerG has been a fixture here for a while. He is a genius and a fantastic mentor. (He changed screen names back a couple months ago to protect his offline identity). He is a genuine congruent masculine male that has been redeemed by TRM. His input here is nothing short of stellar. Give him a wide berth, he deserves it. @Tedd. I’m in your camp with the marriage is fine thing. Scribbler: “Some women do keep themselves up, but it’s the exception not the rule.” I have a marriage that is not just my ego investments telling me… Read more »
OMG !!! OMG !!! OMG !!! Somebody killed Cinderella !!! Has anyone else here noticed the very disproportionate amount of media time and attention focused on Alison Parker vs the camera man who was killed with her ? Her murder has been presented with significantly more focus, grief, shock and disappointment than the camera man. All propaganda scam producers are presenting more zoomed in close ups of her, more praise for her “Gods angel”, She is being hailed as A flawless most valuable positive energetic human while the camera mans murder and character takes a back seat essentially compared to… Read more »
@ Vitriol When I brought up the Birger book and article I though it was clear my eyebrow was raised so high it popped off my forehead. Like Mr. T says, the numbers are right but the reasoning is superfucked Man Up and Marry Those Girl Genuises. The sexual landscape in the Time piece is even worse insofar as the article chronicles the blinders people refuse to remove. That conduct is understandable given the religious contexts. Actually eye-opening seeing it in regards to Mormons and the Orthodox – it makes Churchianity mating protocols easier to comprehend (not approve of –… Read more »
@ Kid – Lol. Listen to learn. When you are talking you aren’t learning. And you shared a field report that demonstrates you have no idea what the fuck you are doing. And then you won’t listen.
Take the cotton out of your ears and stick it into your mouth.
Scrib – different strokes man. Honestly and truly, I don’t want to have to talk to the vast majority of 20-something women out there. I’m not saying you are wrong, and I’m not denying Red Pill truths. I simply don’t aspire to be a pussy hound. It’s a need that I must fill, but I don’t have to fill it with variety. I won’t even try to compare my wife with a young hottie on raw sex appeal because there’s no comparison. But she’s plenty hot enough to perform for. I made it clear up front sex and attraction were… Read more »
@VanityBites
How the F*CK is that INVOLUNTARY manslaughter??
“girls and women dress is more about how we feel about our own selves” Pre-wall woman: Cause I just wanna look good for you, good for you I just wanna look good for you, good for you Let me show you how proud I am to be yours Leave this dress a mess on the floor And still look good for you, good for you (Selena Gomez, Good for You) Post-wall woman: Cause I just wanna look good for me, good for me I just wanna look good for me, good for me Let me show you how old I’m… Read more »
@SJF His last couple of comments have been more valuable and have conveyed good information. I have a problem with being told, based on one example, that I “have no game,” and that I “talk too much,” though. I shared my field report to contribute to discussion, not to be put down and ridiculed by some guy bragging about what a mean machine with the ladies he allegedly is. I’ll take all constructive criticism when delivered with respect, and I appreciate the guys here who have given me such; I’ve obtained value from it. Criticism delivered without respect, in a… Read more »
@SJF – Nice to see you brother. And I can attest, you have a hot, high value wife. Just don’t ever leave her alone with me…
@Fred Flange, Master of Snoods “Remember a lot of those religious-based “nice guys” are in the Beta 80% as well. They have been shamed/beaten into incel status by the overall cultural “all men are rapists and that’s all they are” trope like other young men.” Yeah about that… It’s a huge part of why I’ve always known about the red pill but never had it organized and explained. I saw behavior and was told to be quiet and not sure the hypocrisy. “So gals, you want kids, get out those turkey basters, or get knocked up by muscular guitarists. Then… Read more »
Right, so ecology doesn’t matter. You just have to be man enough to overcome all the messages society is giving women and all the privileges it is doling out to make it work for them at our expense. Sure, okay, got it. You guys are already married, long term. You have no good choices so you make lemonade of your lemons. But I’ve been around way too long to believe that there are many marriages where men are happy and respected and fulfilled. I’ll tell you a little story. When I was going to get married, some 29 years ago,… Read more »
@ Kid – You shared an approach and reaction to the approach which demonstrates you don’t know what you are doing.
Don’t do field reports if you don’t want critical commentary. I come at you hard because you come across as self-indulgent and ill informed and need a shock to wake up. Don’t wake up and keep your approach going. You showed us how well that is working.
Has anyone else here noticed the very disproportionate amount of media time and attention focused on Alison Parker vs the camera man who was killed with her ? Sure. Is that a surprise? “Women are wonderful” plus the relative value of eggs vs. sperm, combined with Parker being a fairly cute blond (good dye job most likely) all adds up to “tragic death”. The cameraman? Oh. Yeah, well, that’s a shame. What was his name, again? It’s yet another clear demonstration of evo-psych at work. Should not be a surprise to anyone reading this site for any length of time.… Read more »
Kid Jupiter – “It seems scribblerg has a one-size-fits-all approach –” We all come at this from our own perspectives. Game is anything but one-size-fits-all, but the core tenants are all the same. I don’t disagree with most of what Srib writes, it just doesn’t meet my goals. Reviews of field reports are gold, but always understand that you are the best judge of what works for you. So while you may not think “puffing up” will help you, it may get him laid daily. Try it if you want, or ignore. Try not to get caught up in the… Read more »
This post more than any other speaks to a part of myself that I’ve had the most trouble getting over. Holistic Game’s take is not too dissimilar from my own, though it took me much longer to lose my virginity. I was raised in a somewhat benign cult (by cult standards), no large compound with weapons and ammo, no forcible visit by the cult leader to all girls of a certain age. There was nothing illegal done and only a few things you might consider unethical. In this context, the youths of that organization were taught exactly as Rollo illustrates… Read more »
@kid: I noticed already some pages back you got something with you almost crying “AMOG me”. It takes some effort withstanding that if amoging is a natural behavior for one. It’s just instinct then.
Wondering where it is coming from? Do you compare yourself to everyone in your mind, trying to feel you are better or something?
@scribblerg
I come across as self-indulgent? Ha, look in the mirror, bud. Projection is an interesting psychological phenomenon.
I don’t know what I’m doing? You can determine that from one field report, Swami? Babe Ruth: 714 career HRs, 1330 career strikeouts. I guess he didn’t know how to hit a baseball, right? Struck out nearly double the amount he homered. He must’ve sucked.
You’ve got AMOG down pretty well, though – I’ll give you that.
@scribblerg “So what is your formula for success? Please share it with me as I’m hopelessly misguided I guess, lol. But oh yeah, I tried the tradcon thing for 50 years and got my liver ripped out and turned into a hat that the women in my life wore on their heads while they shit down my throat.” I don’t doubt that you’ve “succeeded” according to your own goals, at least in the short-term. But we have different values, and therefore different definitions of success. I don’t really blame you for what you’ve chosen to do. I just don’t share… Read more »
“To learn, one can go to a bar, pick out what seems to be the best looking dude there, and watch the body language of the girls that interact with him.”
That’s fine. I can meet everybody there. I”ll wear something that’s easy to pick out so you’ll know it’s me.
By the way, that gif of the shower girl, really only looked like she does that when she’s concentrating on something. Like not falling while stepping out of the tub.
But I got what everybody was trying to say.
The playfulness was a better indicator.
@lh Me almost crying about AMOG? I was sharing my experiences with group dynamics out in the field and the cockblocking AMOG guys I’ve been encountering. Wasn’t sure how to handle that, not something I really ever encountered until fairly recently. And I got some good information and perspectives from some guys here. There was no crying involved. I don’t compare myself to anyone, other than as an objective tool to improve my performance in a given area. I actually admire people who do things I’m interested in better than me and try to use that as inspiration to improve… Read more »
“The mistake you make is to conflate two different things. You assume that because we don’t share your triumphalism, your great delight in the way things are, because we don’t feel good warming ourselves by the fire of civilization itself burning down, that we somehow don’t get it. You don’t get that this is a deliberate choice made with full knowledge of how sh*t works.” This. I fully get it, but I’m not happy about it an refuse to accept it by adopting behaviors that I find distasteful. Here’s the thing though, I realize my point of view is a… Read more »
@ Kid “Criticism delivered without respect, in a condescending tone, is not constructive and is an invitation to combat. I’d like to see scribblerg come off to me in that tone to my face to see how tough he really is. Would he have the balls, or is he just a keyboard tiger?” He delivered criticism with respect (masculine male to masculine male within a “gang”), sure in a condescending tone (as is his style), and it is constructive. No, it is not and invitation to combat. He is a virtual (online in a blog) presence and he is on… Read more »
@kid: I didn’t mean something you say or what stories you tell. It’s something covered, probably mostly unconsciously, which is triggering AMOG – instincts. I’m not criticizing you for it btw. It’s your business, your life. But from what you told it seems to be a major problem for you, so it might be worthwhile finding out the reasons. And I’m interested too because I like understanding things. Maybe it’s the admiration? I think you want to use admiration as a tool to learn from someone? It’s easier to learn from someone you got a positive emotional connection to, for… Read more »
Fred Flange, good summary of the situation. The only post Wall women I see getting married any more are those consciously willing to settle for less than perfect, and those women typically were carousel watchers rather than carousel riders. The Sandberg open hypergamy model, as Rollo has pointed out, really lets the cat out of the bag. Women following that are counting on unlimited numbers of thirsty Beta’s that will meet their hypergamic requirements and that’s not even true now. Mary Daly, Ms. “90%” would be pleased with the current landscape in a way, but probably dissatisfied with the speed… Read more »
@Tedd “Here’s the thing though, I realize my point of view is a minority today, so I don’t feel the need to push it on others. However there are men that want a wife, kids, and a picket fence. They can have it, but they need to know what they are signing up for. I get the impression many guys in the sphere see that as weakness. I disagree. I see a man identifying his goals and making steps to meet them. My desire is to make sure they don’t go into it with Disney dreams. It’s a lot of… Read more »
@Jeremy “In contrast, any restrictions in cult/church doctrine placed on male behavior were answered with zero whining, and complete capitulation to what must be done.” Fucking hell makes me think of being 16 all over again. “As Rollo has said, never be deceived by a religious chick, she wants to restrict your sexuality just as badly as any feminist ever would, she’ll just try to convince you that you’re having a good time while she’s doing it.” Women in my family “the shifting of the male burden of performance to such a degree that boys are expected to self-restrict their… Read more »
@ Lucien – So the answer is Christianity, lol. Just for the record – it’s debunked mythology that has exactly zero answers for today’s world. And even then, you have to ignore how ridiculous your own churches and congregations are now to hold this thought.
I’m speaking for the rest of us who aren’t jumping for Jesus. You evango types can have at it, it seems to be a roaring sucess…
For the record, I agree with both Tedds and Scribblers most recent comments. I see no discordance.
Adapt to your best abilities men.
Evangelical Christian Alpha – isn’t that an oxymoron? You are fallen and a service animal in that worldview. Your sexual desires are sinful, and your lust is to be constrained. You are to always put others first – Beta, Beta, Beta, Beta, Beta, Beta, Beta, Beta….
Scribblerg – I’m on marriage #2, but I met her about the time I found MMSL and then Rollo. At the core of it, I decided to marry again because I realized what a failure I was at being a man and a husband the first time through, and I wanted to do it again on my terms. It’s that simple. I’m not making lemonade man, I chose to attempt growing sweeter fruit with better farming knowledge. Why? Because I’ve always wanted to own a farm. Get it? I want a wife, kids, and the picket fence. Our fence isn’t… Read more »
@Tedd
“Because I’ve always wanted to own a farm.”
I bought one in 2007. It has been my salvation. My preservation and deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss.
@kid: Or is “admiration” actually envy?
Have to make one other thing clear. I’m not happy because I’m getting laid, I’m getting laid because I’m happy. And I’m not getting laid that much anyway. I just happen to shoot high – 20 something hotties who actually get me hard. As Rollo would say, “the juice is worth the squeeze” for them. At 53, I pinch myself…But of course I look 40 and am getting better looking all the time due to working on my fitness like an athlete would. Women are less important to me than ever though. Getting laid is just something I like doing… Read more »
There will never be the Brotherhood of men like the Sisterhood for women because of the prisoner’s dilemma and who controls access to the goods.
Scribblerg – you are a busy guy, so here’s my take. I have all that shit going on too, and going out to sarge would be one more thing to add to the list. When it comes to sex it isn’t about my wife (as a particular woman) it’s she is a she and has a vagina. She isn’t adding to my life by fucking me, she adds by helping me get our kids all over the place. By cooking dinner. In addition, I enjoy her company. I can talk to her about things young women find boring or too… Read more »
The mistake you make is to conflate two different things. You assume that because we don’t share your triumphalism, your great delight in the way things are, because we don’t feel good warming ourselves by the fire of civilization itself burning down, that we somehow don’t get it.
I’m not happy because I’m getting laid, I’m getting laid because I’m happy.
Dude, do you understand that we feel the same way? Screaming about how awesome you are in a room full of awesome just makes you look ridiculous.
@lh By ‘admiration’, I don’t mean I’m fawning all over guys and fellating them. I mean admiration of a skill. For example, I play bass guitar. Been playing for almost 30 years and I’m quite accomplished and skilled at what I do. Been in a lot of bands (including a Rage Against The Machine tribute for about 3 years – yes, I know my enemies, they’re the teachers who taught me to fight me…) But I don’t rest on my laurels; there are a lot of bassists in my area who are much better players than me – maybe not… Read more »
PS, by “sabotage me,” I mean underhanded stuff like go talk about my business to the chicks. Real lowlife scumbag stuff.
Heheh, What’s with all the attempts at qualifying to each other? @Kid. You stated your own insecurity well. AMOG is not necessarily coming from a position of weakness and insecurity. Sure there are douchebag AMOGs out there, but there are also naturals with skilled masculine attributes and congruent behavior. You did read Rollo’s recent essay on the Art of AMOG, didn’t you? Now, Scribbler may be DHVing, but I’d take what he’s saying and evaluate it in context. The alternatives are a dead end road. Once again, he is on your side of men’s sexual strategy. Positive masculinity in a… Read more »
@Rt. Hon. Msgr. Scribblerg: I am not so far in age from you and would suggest more of us than you might think are in congruence with you. I have not been through the wringer you have. I genuflect to your perseverance. With what I have learned these past couple of years it is my hope and plan to avoid that forever. But if anything bad/weird happens I will be ready and equipped to deal. One key concept I share with you, I am not nostalgic. I do not look back fondly on my past with longing to relive any… Read more »
Kid Jupiter – “I just get the feeling that AMOG comes from a position of weakness and insecurity, not true strength.” In some situations with some men, perhaps. It’s environmental. I have several male friends that excel in their spheres. All of us have our own specialties. When we hang, who the AMOG is often depends on what we are doing. My buddy Dave is a history buff and like Scribblerg knows a lot about the history of politics. So he tends to AMOG those conversations. When we talk about guns my buddy Mike takes the lead. So in a… Read more »
@scribblerg “You are to always put others first” Gold “What if you had to define yourself just as yourself? What if you couldn’t hide behind father, husband and Christian? Who would you be then? I found out…” Out of the fucking ball park… @Ted Going to work on one in a few weeks after I get from amanindemand seminar “Naturals and guys tight on game usually just chill. If you know you’re the shit, you have nothing to prove.” They make the best leaders as well. Joshepth bannister for one @SJF What do you grow? I love how a farm… Read more »
Your belief here is itself a form of you AMOGing guys who you think would AMOG you.
The guy who beats your ass and outperforms you in various ways does so from a position of confidence. The natural reaction to this is to disqualify his outperforming you by questioning his motive for doing so (i.e. insecurity, weakness) and disqualifying his ‘real’ performance by defining the terms of victory by your own standard.
Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.
I just get the feeling that AMOG comes from a position of weakness and insecurity, not true strength.
@kid
Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I don’t know where scribbleberg is from but masculinity, peacocking, and AMOG in men isn’t exactly in short supply in the Northeast. Blue pills know that modesty is weakness here, but the AMOG’s tend to be mostly cocky and not that funny.
And now back to our regularly scheduled pogrom: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34042751 Are Pakistan’s Female Medical Students to be Doctors or Wives? The vice-chancellor of the prestigious Shaheed Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto medical university in Islamabad, Dr Javed Akram, says that girls are more focused on excelling academically than boys. At the same time, he accepts that some female students are more keen on catching a husband than on pursuing a career. “It’s much easier for girls to get married once they are doctors and many girls don’t really intend to work as professional doctors,” he says. “I know of hundreds of hundreds of… Read more »
@ Rugby I manage for wildlife habitat for deer, turkey, rabbits and pheasant. It is a 40 acre fenced in property with a 1,000 sq. ft clubhouse. I plant food plots for forage and plant and maintain a diversity of trees and shrubs year round. It is a 40 minute drive from my home and frequent the place 1 to 2 times a week. I have done vegetable gardening but the annuals were too much time better invested elsewhere. I’ve grown 50 heirloom tomatoes from seed, 50 eggplants, beans and potatoes, but they are better bought at the supermarket. I… Read more »
@Rollo
“The natural reaction to this is to disqualify his outperforming you by questioning his motive for doing so (i.e. insecurity, weakness) and disqualifying his ‘real’ performance by defining the terms of victory by your own standard.
Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=961NUnH9EOQ
@SJF
“has allowed me to witness the wickedness and sublime dynamism that is Mother Nature.”
https://m.soundcloud.com/jjgrey/beautiful-world
What a wonderful collection of work. That to me is paradise using your hands to create with nature.
@SJF, I’ve been contemplating buying some land here in order to turn it into a coursing track for my greyhounds. An acre would be plenty.
@scribblerg
No doubt, I enjoy reading your posts, you have amazing insights, and you challenge my thinking… and I’m grateful for that.
But, I don’t get the vibe that you’re happy, at all… more like the guy who’s still rapid cycling between ‘anger’ and ‘bargaining’ in red-pill greiving.
meh,
scribble was calling people white knights in a fucking red pill forum, and whines about his previous life without accepting it. Why would any truly internalized alpha feel the need to put people down?
Anyway, I agree with Kid and nobody is going to change my mind. It is what it is.
@Rollo “Your belief here is itself a form of you AMOGing guys who you think would AMOG you. The guy who beats your ass and outperforms you in various ways does so from a position of confidence. The natural reaction to this is to disqualify his outperforming you by questioning his motive for doing so (i.e. insecurity, weakness) and disqualifying his ‘real’ performance by defining the terms of victory by your own standard.” I’m trying to wrap my head around how this is relevant to what I posted. How is a guy who tries to put me down and undercut… Read more »
@Kid, you’re presuming that AMOGing is a conscious act. Go read that link I gave you:
http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/02/the-art-of-amog/
A coursing track would be good for your soul.
Oh, that reminds me. My $1,933.10 in property taxes are due in the next two weeks.
Your belief here is itself a form of you AMOGing guys who you think would AMOG you.
@ Rollo
This is a form of you AMOGing the guy, AMOG’ing the guy, AMOG’ing the guy, AMOGing. the guy………
@ Kid “…..understand that Frame is NOT power.” Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better. “In the social sciences, agency is the capacity of individuals to act independently and to make their own free choices. By contrast, structure is those factors of influence (such as social class, religion, gender, ethnicity, customs, (ed: AMOGers), etc.) that determine or limit an agent and his or her decisions. The relative difference in influences from structure and agency is debated – it is unclear to what extent a person’s actions are constrained by social systems. One’s agency is one’s independent capability or… Read more »
@SJF
I’m not understanding the point of the riddles and Wikipedia definitions. Are you not understanding or misinterpreting the points I’m trying to make? If so, please explain where I’ve been unclear and I’ll try to clear it up. It seems so clear and evident to me, and apparently to Andy, as well. But maybe it isn’t as clear as I think it is.
Never wished anything were easier. Always trying to get better.
Everyone is free to express and no one is able to criticize. By everyone, I mean women. Don’t judge; it’s all good in the hood; don’t tell me how to dress my daughter.
Then everyone wonders why things are getting worse. The lack of self awareness in the IF is amazing and frightening at the same time.
@Tedd – You have an 85% chance of getting divorced again on marriage two, lol. And you are trying to sort me out. Hope you are “a good enough man” this time around…
@Andy – Now you’re talking, get your wife to bring a girl in with you. I like how you think. And more than a few men have this kind of set up – of course, they are all Alpha dogs…
Let’s be clear here Kid Jupiter. Guys in a group, a gang, a tribe will shit-test each other and shit-test new-comers. It is testing their mettle. Understand this, relax and respond appropriately and pass these tests appropriately if you want to fit in . (Also understand that some commentators have a back story on record). You are very welcome here and your comments are very appropriate. But pay attention a little more astutely. There are some nuances of red pill and game you are missing. I understand perfectly what you are saying. I just don’t accept your Frame or contentions.… Read more »
But maybe it isn’t as clear as I think it is.
*shrugs* I think what they are saying is that Scribble is right about that field report. And that makes him better than you.
We know where I stand. Am I re-framing victory to my own context? I don’t fucking care.
@Kid – I’ve had more fights in my life than the number of women I’ve fucked. After the 50th or so fight, I began winning most of them. I’ve hurt more big guys than little ones cuz I can’t go toe to with them so I get them on the ground quickly and punch them in the face as many times as I can as quickly as I can before my arms give out. Or I use a chair or table or lamp to smash them with so I can knock them down. I split my first skull open at… Read more »
Scrig – “And you are trying to sort me out. Hope you are “a good enough man” this time around…” What ever gave you the idea I was “sorting you out”? You seem do be doing fine on your own. I’m not looking to tell you what to do, nor am I looking to tell any man what to do. I’m presenting a different perspective, in a realm full of guys with another perspective. That’s really it. You just happen to be the active counterpart, for lack of a better term. As to if I’m man enough? Lol I can’t… Read more »
@Kid Jupiter
You’re projecting male judgements of male value onto how women value men. That’s your mistake. When you understand this you’ll understand why Rollo’s words are relevant.
@Jeremy
So you’re saying that women value men who put other men down in front of them, in order to win the woman’s approval?
If that’s the case, things have degenerated more than I thought…
@Kid
No… again, that’s projection. Women are different than you are (presuming you’re not a woman), their value system is different. Their experience of male-on-male interaction is entirely different from yours.
I was just about to let scribbler have it, but I’ll let his own words do that.
@Kid, you conflate AMOGing with another guy expressly putting you down. The worst (or best) AMOG is the guy you can’t help but like. I could walk into your social setting and AMOG you without saying a word to you or about you. I could AMOG you better by building you up and encouraging you than cutting you down. My social proof and capital would increase by my “helping” you. See how that works? Your impression of being AMOG’d is having some douchebag casually or overtly insult you. That’s adolescent thinking. The worst AMOG you know is the guy who… Read more »
@Tedd – I get you want to be married. I wish you luck. But you were the one who said your first marriage failed because you weren’t a good enough man – not me. So I’m just hoping your are good enough this time around And oh yeah, I hope you don’t get sick like I did and have to watch every woman in your life turn on you. Or unlucky and lose your job and have financial problems after decades of carrying them. My wake up call came in my mid 40s when for the first time in my… Read more »
@Jeremy
It’s not projection. I’m asking a question.
I asked the question whether you were asserting that women value men more who put other men down in front of them in order to win the woman’s approval. I’m looking for pragmatic answers here, not Zen riddles, Wikipedia definitions, or psychobabble. Do women view a man who does that to another man as “beating their ass” or “outperforming” them? I truly don’t know the answer, but sounds like you do.
Oh, and I’m not a woman, so don’t worry.
@ Kid – Yeah, a typo makes you the “victor” here, lol. Get a grip on yourself, your own field report is proof you have no game. “I showed interest” – this is the most basic element of game yet you miss it.
Let’s break this down. Do you realize why showing interest is your mistake or not? Let’s see if you can keep on topic.
@Kid
I answered you with one word, “No”. Perhaps my last comment was too complicated for you. In which case, let me repeat myself again in answer to your last question…
“No”
Now please go read my “psychobabble” in that context.
This whole thread solidifies my impression that the only reason for the existence or necessity of “the red pill” is religion. How many self-proclaimed red pill guys were raised in a non-religious household? Virtually none. Many of the supposed secret truths that the red-pill reveals are not actually secret at all but plainly obvious if you aren’t raised with religious myths. I’m in agreement with scribblerg that you can’t be fully red-pill and religious…that’s only half way there. And blue pill is virtually synonymous with religious, though I suppose there are some secular ultra-liberal ideologies that are virtually religions…though I… Read more »
@Kid – Women value high value men. They look for social proof of that. It’s not “men who put other men down” it’s men to whom other men submit. I’m naturally dominant. It’s no act. I also know my shit about the Red Pill now having gone through an agonizing two years digesting it and ripping myself apart and then rebuilding. I also was a bit of a natural alpha but still Blue Pill in may ways so I applied game seriously to my dealings with women and really enjoy it now cuz it’s second nature. Answer my question about… Read more »
“Too bad the animalistic brutish Romans subsumed them…”
To the victor goes the spoils.
The Etruscans just didn’t measure up, neither did the Latins, Celts, Gauls, Carthaginians, Greeks, Macedonians, Egyptians, huge piles of Germans….but you get the point. Of course nothing lasts forever and Rome fell victim to it’s own success, much like is happening in West today.
In more basic terms, women value that which adds value to their life, which is no different than men when stated like that. However, that which adds value to a woman’s life is best understood from a female perspective, vice versa for adding value to male lives. It is on these fundamental misalignments of value judgement that most discordance between the sexes springs from. It is foolish to think that women will value you less because some big alpha guy came up and “undercut” you in a social situation. Women don’t give a shit which guys pick on other guys,… Read more »
@Jeremy – Subtly wrong. Social proof matters a lot to women. And when you are in a group dynamic, women will often move towards the dominant man in a social group, even if he isn’t that good looking. I think there is some conflation of bullying or being an asshole here. You don’t get men to submit by being a bully, they submit to you in social situations because of your skillful leadership and social intelligence. These are signals of fitness to women. Fyi, I’m not trying to dominate here, I’m trying to disrupt some BS flying around and be… Read more »
Scribblerg – Any guy looking for a unicorn is in for a lot of disappointment. I firmly believe AWALT, but the devil is in the details. If you’re going to make it any length of time, you need to find one with the type of crazy you can deal with. I’m being glib, but the kernel of truth is that woman require different things in different degrees to satisfy hypergamy. Short term is tough, but you don’t really care how it goes a month from now, so there’s room for a lot of overkill. Long term its more about the… Read more »
KryptoKate – “…though I think people that are truly that dogmatically liberal are fairly rare and mostly comprised of college students and academics living in a bubble world.” You mean liberal in the modern sense or the classical sense? The “liberals” I know are bluepill, as much as any of the “conservatives.” Religion seems to not make much difference, believer, unbeliever, whatever, most men conform to some version the First Set of Books. Of course if we use the classical understanding of liberal, there are so few as to be irrelevant. I do know a bunch of “liberal” fascists, they’re… Read more »
Tedd – “you need to find one with the type of crazy you can deal with” – I get that. I’ve only met one woman like that since my marriage. It was like two puzzle pieces, we were both divorced. She lived on the west coast, where I spent a lot of time on business but I never was going to move away from my daughter as I was a committed and good Dad. But I’ve never met another since. She was “my kind of crazy”. But even then, it’s so risky. I guess for me, the most painful part… Read more »
@scribbler You’re misinterpreting what I meant by “showing interest” in her. I didn’t fall all over myself or try too hard at ANY point in my interaction with this girl. I used the phrase “show interest” for want of a better phrase. You’re fixating on that phrase. I’ve already repeated the story several times and I’m not going to repeat it again. I understand full well not to show too much interest or act too thirsty with women; I wasn’t born yesterday and I’ve been around the block a few times with women in my 43 years. That said, don’t… Read more »
@Kid – Denial is not going to help. By your own admission, your “method” doesn’t work most of the time. You also need to get off of this “asshole” idea you have. There is no need or point in being an asshole. I do “push-pull”, gently teasing, alternating with fun conversation. What you do need to do is activate their fantasy hamster which is the part I think you utterly miss and somehow resent having to do. Seduction is all about activating a woman’s fantasies. Also, I don’t act interested just by talking to a woman, in fact, I’ll usually… Read more »
@Rollo I’ve actually experienced the up-front asshole douchebag putdown AMOG several times in the recent past. And also the non-up front asshole douchebag who goes behind your back to put you down and poison the waters, female style – as I detailed a few posts back. (Could this be a reflection of the feminization of men? Using feminine tactics?) I have no problem with a guy who can outperform me without engaging in conflict with me. Good for him. But if he’s that good and I can’t compete and my ability to attract women is impaired by his presence, then… Read more »
@scribbler I really thought we were making some progress here in being civil, but then you post that. Check your own character defects before you point out mine, big fella. From the sound of it, you’ve got a lot more to worry about in the character defect area than I do. Sounds to me that you’ve lived, and still live, a miserable existence and are using this forum to talk yourself better. Keep talking. Maybe you wouldn’t get resistance from me if you could reflect on how you communicate your thoughts and ideas and adjust your delivery accordingly. You sound… Read more »
@Kid – Yet another resort to physical threats? I talk to you this way because you are a fucking asshole and you show it by acting like a kid in high school. I’m not out to “make progress” with you, I’m trying to get through your thick fucking skull. But hey, keep clutching your pearls. And go suck a pile of dicks while you are at it.
Going fishing need time out from the world. @Kryptokate Spot on. I think for me at least trauma got me red pill aware without words to explain but actions to follow. @Jeremy “What they want is a guy who never lets such action interfere with his goals and mindset. They want someone who isn’t shakeable, is basically a rock and smoothly deflects whatever is thrown his way.” Alpha is a mindset. I control me not what happens around me. I am the master of my ship. “What demonstrates low value is how you react to the situation.” I learned this… Read more »
@scribblerg Social proof matters a lot to women. And when you are in a group dynamic, women will often move towards the dominant man in a social group, even if he isn’t that good looking. Not to disagree with you much, but social proof is just one potential (and more obvious) indicator of male value. Women are evolved enough to instinctively know that they need an entire chemistry set of tests, and that testing never ceases. I also was not implying that rolling over socially was ok, just that letting yourself get derailed from who and what you are so… Read more »
@Jeremy
“Your reaction to whatever the social situation presents weighs far far more heavily than the peacock who just walked in between you and the girl you were talking to.”
Thank you, now I understand much more clearly.
@scribbler
Kiss my ass. When your skull loses it’s thickness, so will mine. Until then, go fuck yourself.
Wow, this thread has really degenerated . . . that’s what we need in the manosphere, a f*cking circular firing squad!
How much more dick can you possibly get than telling someone you don’t know, and who doesn’t owe you anything, that they don’t “listen well”?
@Jeremy – Got it and agree. Social proof is only one of many aspects of status, but women react very strongly to high status. @ Lucien – I don’t know, maybe by jumping in and furthering the idiocy? To my reading here, Kid has resisted virtually every bit of advice/critique he’s gotten on his ideas and field report. Sure seems like someone who is resistant and doesn’t listen. I’m done with him, he’s got all the answers but doesn’t have a clue, a very bad combo. My question for you is how you’ve missed that? I gave him very sound… Read more »
Here Kid, here’s the Hollywood version of AMOG, probably what the FI would love betas to believe. Both Steve Martin’s and the douche character stand in as Hollywood versions of AMOG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWNLhptltBg
Here’s something closer to reality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRZh_NO5tic
True AMOGs make you feel like part of the party, while demonstrating to others that they are doing this.
Jeremy – “But again, being boxed out of gaming one particular girl by some asshole doesn’t really harm your social proof… but going off and sulking in the corner after it happens definitely does.”
Truth.
I like agree and amplify the cock block. AMOG wannabe interrupts, I say to the girl “Have you met Bob? He’s all kinds of awesome.” Then I leave her to him. Sometimes, not every time, but often enough the girl approaches me later and we pick up where we left off.
I always befriend the guy who amogs me and flatter him too, and usually it’s a guy who’s not really socially intelligent so it kind of goofs him up. If he’s an asshole, usually letting him just show himself for who he is without engaging is the best path. But I rarely get amogged as I’m not low hanging fruit…
@scribblerg “@ Lucien – I don’t know, maybe by jumping in and furthering the idiocy? To my reading here, Kid has resisted virtually every bit of advice/critique he’s gotten on his ideas and field report. Sure seems like someone who is resistant and doesn’t listen. I’m done with him, he’s got all the answers but doesn’t have a clue, a very bad combo. My question for you is how you’ve missed that? I gave him very sound game advice and admonished him for being resistant in his other comments – which he clearly was, and he talks about what he’d… Read more »
@scribbler Actually, it’s you who doesn’t have a fking clue. Who the hell do you think you are to be ‘admonishing’ anyone? 70+ notch count? Of what? Streetwalking skanks and crack hos? With your asinine earlobe stretching and ‘taking over the world’ lines, and your life coaching game, I’m sure the 10s are falling all over themselves to get a piece of your ding dong. What a clown. I got some good advice from several guys here, listened to all of it after clarifying some things. I would’ve listened to you, too, if your advice made sense, but unfortunately, not… Read more »
@Lucien “I prefer to keep this a constructive space. I’m going to be honest, the only reason I’m here is because I feel like I can admit that things have gone wrong for me from time to time. And I don’t think people anywhere else in my life will understand that.” Me to because no one really in the world I live has any motivation to care. Here we keen from each other. When a buddy I was doing acroyoga with looked at me when I told him my experience he looked at me and said look I am going… Read more »
Lol, AMOGs are a lot of fun to hang out with, especially at my late-20s, married stage. I imagine they are a bit more assholish in the early 20s, but everyone is more assholish at that age. Temporary phase. I don’t think I’ve ever been AMOG’d, though, when I was younger, that loomed as an ever-present fear in my mind. Now, what would I do if I were AMOG’d? I dunno, drink a beer and talk to the AMOG, I guess. I enjoy being married, but I’ve only been married a year. I see a lot of other couples and… Read more »