Interview with Goldmund

Last week I got a tweet from fellow manosphere blogger Goldmund Unleashed informing me that he’d be making a slight detour to his ‘American Tour‘ as it were and he wanted to visit me in Reno. Far be it from me not to play the gracious host, I put him up at one of my clubs for a couple nights and we got together for dinner and talked a bit.

After we’d finished and were heading back to the club Goldmund asked if I’d be down for an impromptu interview. My time was limited, but I thought what the hell, and we ended up doing a quick half hour talking on the video of his SLR camera and a little mic he had. It was early evening and the high dessert was cooling off so I just pulled over to a spot I thought might do.

What follows here is what we discussed.

I generally don’t do video ‘appearances’, but Goldmund is doing what I can only describe as touring documentary of the manosphere as he makes his circuit around the United States, so I felt compelled to do this one. He’s making a herculean effort in this ‘On the Road’ trip and I had to make sure his stay here was comfortable and worthwhile. This isn’t some new foray in my going public; I thought my readers would appreciate this.

On Goldmund’s blog Jack Raynor left this comment and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion:

On the topic of being, instead of acting (which I’m 100% in agreement with), my current position is that this isn’t something that is possible for all men, or even “most”…

Just like the behavioral differences between males and females are the results of inborn traits (and these traits’ adaptations to the environment), not just “socialization” (the blank slate hypothesis), the behavioral differences from one male to the next are likewise the results of such inborn traits. These things can be…tweaked, but how far?

I, for example, have had an easy time with the red pill because I’ve have always had a rather shallow emotional response. My own brother, however, has always had a terrible temper. (He takes after my father much more in that regard.) As he’s matured he’s learned to get it under control a little, but it’s still there. He’s even gotten into Buddhism, but it hasn’t suppressed it completely. The difference between us is significant enough that he claims that I’m a natural born Buddhist, even though I don’t know the first thing about Buddhism…

This thought of mine originated while getting more involved in the conversation on r/theredpill. I’ve observed individuals who talk about the fact that, try as they might, they can’t get their emotions under control enough to keep up the act for long periods of time , much less to simply “be”.

Any thoughts on this?

Let me know what you think.

117 comments

  1. When you’re in your mid-forties and you have kids, you love a man who treats you like a lady, who respects your children, who comes home when he says he will and who worries about putting food on the table. So yes, in midlife, my biggest turn on is a faithful, loyal, hard-working guy.

    I Married My Soulmate After 50

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lorraine-c-ladish/finding-love-later-in-life_b_7753862.html

    The horror, the horror!

    Loved the interview! Thx much.

  2. Being half Italian it’s always been easy to fall back on the “passionate emotional Italian” crutch when my emotions have gotten the best of me. After reading RM & 48 Laws of Power I of course have a very different opinion. A calmer, less reactive emotional state is among the greatest gifts given to me via the red pill.

    I often relate it to sports in my current line of work (psych nurse). Tim Duncan has a flat-line emotional state, and the results are abundant. In comparison, soccer super power Brazil hosted the World Cup last year; and their team of over emotional tear-baby boys proceeded to lose their final 2 matches by a combined 10-1. Nuff said

  3. “I…well…what I was saying is I think that there is not even an expectation on the part of women to expect to have a masculine man, I think that they are already being raised and the are at a point where they are being…you know, pushed in a direction where they have to be the primary…”

    This is probably one of the saddest realizations for me for all the men in the so called 1st world, and for all men and women in general everywhere in the world. When I think about what I have watched on TV growing up, all the sitcoms where the father figure in the family was ALMOST ALWAYS presented as a fat, irresponsible, whining, clueless, undeveloped almost mentally retarded weakling…and that is supposed to be funny. Why?

    But of course!

    If my daughter is bombarded daily with such a stereotype, she will grow up expecting very little from men in general. The western civilization has been built by men who had passion and cause.

    Now I am talking as a person from the third world where many still live in huts. And I am saying that the westerners owe it to humanity and the world in general to reverse the negative trends…I wonder what it will take to reverse this, but it needs reversing. If the Europeans and the Americans continue pissing on their culture this way, the world has a lot to lose. And I understand the Japanese are taking a similar trajectory too…

    Pisses one off. Really pisses one off.

    Well…

  4. cheupez -“And I am saying that the westerners owe it to humanity and the world in general to reverse the negative trends..”

    Really? Why?

    While I agree the west is pissing itself away I can’t even begin to fathom how we in the West owe single damn thing to rest of the world. The rest of world scolds the West, America in particular, for being colonists, and paternalistic, etc. and yet never is the hand not out begging for our charity. I ask you what is rest of the world going to do for us in return?

  5. @Badpainter

    At the risk of derailing the spirit of this thread;

    Ya. The rest of the world scolds the West for being colonialists… Yes. That is classic example of shaming.

    BUT,colonialism was actually beneficial to the shit holes people call “the third world”; but most “third world” hot heads will not accept that fact.

    This may have racist overtones but I dare spit it out all the same.

    In Kenya the railway that the Brits built is still the only Railway in use today, and some sections of it have even been rundown and abandoned. If the west goes down the sink hole, then humanity shortly follows. Just my opinion. Much like someone at the dike when the leak starts. He can stop it. I think white men can. In the third world, we wear suits, ties, shoes, drive cars, the diabetics use insulin…The rest of the world aping the west did not really come merely as a matter of just a choice. It was the prudent thing to do. The world knows this. It is not debatable, at least I don’t think so.

    I don’t know why shaming seems to work so well against white men. I don’t know if it is genetic? May be that they have such a warped respect for moral code that the guilt trigger is set at “low threshold” or something like that. In a way it is a strength, but also a big weakness.

  6. On TRP there are lots of debates around mate guarding. As someone who has been married for a few decades to a very attractive woman, I have came to realize that mate guarding is beta behavior.

    I’ve been in vocal debates about “being alpha”, and guarding what is “yours” and knocking some guys teeth out. Well, truth is, if you have to mate guard, you aren’t her alpha. The reality is in most cases its just your turn anyway…

    If your woman is being flirted with by another man, and is receptive to his charms with you present, its you that has the problem with her, not him.

    In my beta past I used to intervene, and tell guys to lay the fuck off. It showed her that I “valued” her and that she was my little snowflake. She loved it, and it made her feel like “the one.”

    Shit tests ensued. Once I recalibrated and changed my approach, removing emotions, I started winning those shit tests.

    What I came to realize, that some emotional men cant deal with another man approaching their women.

    Your woman should be doing the dismissing with you across the room. She may play into a conversation, and then clearly point out who she’s with and why he has no chance.

    If she plays into the advances she is either shit testing you, or you are not her alpha, and hypergamy is in full force.

    The proper reaction to these sorts of shit tests, is to approach another hotter woman and commence dread game. She will come around quickly if you are HER alpha.

    The exception to this if someone is being aggressive and she is uncomfortable, then it is a matter of your DIGNITY and you tell jackoff to back the fuck down.

    Ive later fucked too many wives whose husbands got all aggro on me to know that if you are the emo aggro boyfriend/husband, that just means she absolutely WILL fuck when you aren’t around.

  7. cheupez – “At the risk of derailing the spirit of this thread…”

    In the spirit of that allow me to thank you the explanation. Much as I would Iove to discuss the points you’ve made comment #8 is probably about 400 too soon for such an off topic deviation.

  8. I dont’t believe that it’s possible for many men to change their behavior in a “Red Pill” way, when they are already too deep in BP Modus!

    Between Man and Woman, we have a “War-like Situation”. Even after having read Red Pill Theory, a lot of men still believing in Marriage and having an old school family.

    Even more, most men have still a kind of neediness for these things.
    You are not really Red Pill if you have that neediness!!

    Monogamy is part of history, we are facing the so called serial monogamy!

    That means for me, that i will never stop to spinning plates!

    Everything is about status, money and power. Every men has to get it!
    Because that’s the best way to do everything the way you like, to pursue your interests and only your interests!

    Rolle has summarized it good like that:

    ” …what I was saying is I think that there is not even an expectation on the part of women to expect to have a masculine man, I think that they are already being raised and the are at a point where they are being…you know, pushed in a direction where they have to be the primary…”

    I also came to that realization a year ago.
    All this man-up shit….all this be more alpha and so on.

    Yes, i will be more alpha…iam more alpha, but only for myself!

    And for every woman it’s like this:

    ” My way, or the highway!”

    I personally believe, that RP is too heavy to swallow for most men.
    And i believe, that you need to be tough to yourself to really push yourself to a 100% RP Mindset.
    Too many men are too lazy for that !!!
    And way too scared.

  9. I believe emotional regulation is the mark of a man and what separates men from boys.This is not the same as being emotionless: it is ok to feel anger, sadness, etc and to validate these as being a normal part of the human experience. However, to make decisions or irrationally react on emotions is a loss of frame control. Hence the need of a father to teach his sons emotional regulation. Failure to do so, via absence or neglect, will often lead to delinquency. (I am sure you have visited this topic before Rollo)

  10. @ Matt

    There’s no loyalty for a woman. Her kind of “loyalty” is highly conditional and opportunistic

  11. Thanks @Badpainter. Ya. I didn’t want to open that can of worms yet. But I guess it is worth looking into…

    But I must admit that though this interview is very short, it is quite incisive. Rollo is talking about such serious stuff and yet able to put his points across with such a lazy smile and relaxed disposition.

    “…we have to lower the basketball hoops, so the women can do a slam dunk just as well as the men…”

    To be honest, I think some of the sentiments that Rollo attempts to articulate in that short interview are core to understanding the precise position a man finds himself today, more so the man in the western world.

    Since I started reading this blog, my eyes opened to some truths I just had some vague subconscious awareness of, but could not quite put a finger on them then. Many of the things Rollo says and passes them off casually as just “connecting dots…” are dynamite.

  12. “the railway that the Brits built is still the only Railway in use today, and some sections of it have even been rundown and abandoned.” There was, while it was in use and until guns became the thing, an annoying problem with blacksmith clans removing whole sections of rails to turn into spears and such, facilitating their customers’ desire to slaughter and rob their neighbours more efficiently, in the time-honoured fashion.
    The railway had interfered with the local economy and deprived some of a decent living, as one of its effects was to reduce the value of caravans of human porters to almost nothing, thus making slaving raids between tribes not cost-effective.

  13. Can people learn new ways of behaving? Yes. Can all people make large scale changes in their attitudes and frames of reference such as is being discussed here? No, I don’t believe so; which is why so many people are unhappy in their relationships.

    I think a significant number of men in their forties or late thirties were raised by the last (fragments of a?) generation of women that were not overwhelmingly steeped in feminist teachings. Probably more of us in the Midwest/South than along the coasts. These are the men who are the most emotionally troubled by today’s culture, and its impact on their relationships with women, as they may have grown up in the traditional family model, seen it first-hand, and want it for themselves. Younger men haven’t experienced an environment where women weren’t considered the moral superiors and all men considered guilty of being male. So while they also suffer the consequences, it’s a different experience than some of us older guys.

  14. I’ll just add (hopefully for clarification) that while both age groups may at times feel anger, frustration, and confusion; the older ones also feel loss.

  15. “This thought of mine originated while getting more involved in the conversation on r/theredpill. I’ve observed individuals who talk about the fact that, try as they might, they can’t get their emotions under control enough to keep up the act for long periods of time , much less to simply “be”.”

    This troubles me from time to time as well. Started reading RM/RP blogs ~2 years ago, always have had a bad temper, and have made significant strides in lengthening the periods in between failed shit tests (used to fail them daily, then weekly, now its only about every ~3 months I will eff up and just start screaming at it). I tend to think that nothing is impossible if one is sufficiently determined, but I am realistic enough to admit that this process def takes longer and is more difficult for some than for others, given certain hard-wired predispositions (not an excuse, btw)

  16. @ Ace Yes I would agree, Cognitive shift and emotional control is harder for some than others.
    Physiologically, emotional control is related to the pre-frontal cortex which doesn’t mature
    until the age of 25. Evidence now points to excessive cannabis use in the teens as affecting
    the development of the latter and resultant lack of impulse control particulary anger. Aquired brain injury
    to pre-frontal cortex also tends to result in loss of emotional control.
    In addition, operant conditioning (learned behaviours), secondary gains (getting results), and beliefs about self
    identity (e.g. I am weak) can also maintain emotional reactivity. It follows then that emotional impulse control
    and the ability to regulate the latter is dependant on both physiological and psychological factors and these
    differ from person to person.

  17. Just like the behavioral differences between males and females are the results of inborn traits (and these traits’ adaptations to the environment), not just “socialization” (the blank slate hypothesis), the behavioral differences from one male to the next are likewise the results of such inborn traits. These things can be…tweaked, but how far?

    I, for example, have had an easy time with the red pill because I’ve have always had a rather shallow emotional response. My own brother, however, has always had a terrible temper. (He takes after my father much more in that regard.) As he’s matured he’s learned to get it under control a little, but it’s still there. He’s even gotten into Buddhism, but it hasn’t suppressed it completely. The difference between us is significant enough that he claims that I’m a natural born Buddhist, even though I don’t know the first thing about Buddhism…

    Early childhood development is my primary culprit for such differences. I have three brothers. I only feel similar in temperament to 1 of them. My older brother was the target of my fathers form of self-loathing-must-be-better-than-I-was styled emotional abuse. I was the target of my mothers form of emotionally-needy-make-up-for-what-I-didn’t-get-from-dad form of abuse. To call us night-and-day in terms of personality is like calling sand coarse.

    Most people can’t remember back far enough to recognize the first impressions on life they got. Mine is fuzzy as well, but I recognized enough to realize that my mother, through sheer ignorance, demanded things of me that were not my responsibility to give her. Perhaps precociously or just randomly, I once refused her. Her (again ignorant) response was to subject me to habitual, persistent humiliation in front of the family. These first impressions on what life expects of us affect us more profoundly than anything else outside of biology. However, these first impressions are often lost to time and poor human memory capabilities.

    I presume that the current generations who have significant portions of their early lives on video will have a much easier time than I did recognizing how early experiences shaped their personalities.

    I find that the most likely explanation for such differences is early childhood experience, but I am not a brain doctor.

  18. The following is based on observations which I am allowed to report I am sharing with Our Humble Narrator, whose teenage daughter is right in the mix, as he notes.

    WRT women no longer expecting to get a “masculine man”, men are being taught they shouldn’t do that, and the behavior patterns inreasingly are observable. I have noted before how instead of dating, there is just “hanging out” as a group of boys and girls. Proms and dances are no longer an event to make a one-on-one date. Friends just gather as a group and go.

    The peacocking of which beta boys are capable now takes place via social media, and things like Snapchat videos. I.e., a boy who wants to show his skating prowess will have a buddy upload a video onto his feed and share it, rather than do stunts where friends can see, or make a music performance/video by himself or with a group. (Not saying they’re any good, just that this is happening).

    Yet there is still coupling, and of course you don’t expect to see that under your nose, though public displays seem to be more discreet.

    I am not so quick to conclude there is only one way this can turn out. I can’t say young men will go the Grass Eater route, though a watered down version of it could take hold. There will still be some masculine men, and others who will be able to encounter, adapt and overcome the hetero male social shaming process. They may even verbally profess their acceptance of it, especially in college, whilst doing workarounds in the SMP they may or may not be consciously directing. But what they do will do to get jiggy with SOMEONE (of what HB status and mentality is available in your sector). Other men, as noted, will just dip their toes into the SMP just enough to land one or two partners, or get rejected, give up for awhile and maybe come back when they turn 30-35 or so and can snag an Epiphany Phaser, for better or worse, probably worse.

    One forecast I will hazard: Some version of hivemind female “sex positivity” is going to be needed for these HB5 or so women to make this work the way thwy want, open hypergamy be damned. They won’t like having to do that, as Dr. Warren Farrell’s social experiment long ago proved. To recall: he flipped the script and made the women pick up the men. They HATED it. HATED it. Imagine an AFC’s approach anxiety in a club, multiply that by 10 and that’s what the women felt, to the point they would get sick forcing up the courage to try to overcome it.

    The men thought the whole thing was just ducky.

    You will know this is a Thing when you see more noise of “what’s wrong with boys/men today” in clickbait articles, except this time it will start percolating down into high schoolers’ media and their parents’ FB feeds.

  19. @Rollo

    I work professionally in video production. So the off-the-cuff production values make me a little crazy, heh. But aside from that I appreciated this.

    Basically, you’re giving a strong, brief overview of what frame is and isn’t, and how enacting it plays out in real life. I think that, at least in the early stages of digesting the red pill, men tend to mistake the delicate art of frame control – really the ability to create a strong coherent reality from the formless chaos around you, using sheer force of will – with simply being domineering and bossing people around. And they also tend to veer towards contempt towards women and their unique propensities.

    The world would be less vivid, and men less manly, without them.

    Not to cross threads too much, but from an exchange I was having with Jeremy in the previous thread:

    “I don’t think you’ll find that women try to banish their ignorance about themselves, to ‘grow as a person,’ in a way that you would currently find satisfactory. It’s not so much an understanding on their part as a growing certainty of their devotion to a certain pragmatic path. For instance, attaching themselves to a strong man and providing him with a family and supporting his strength. They don’t ‘understand’ the process, but they learn to do it anyways.

    Re: treating them like children – I think that that’s a useful approximation when you’re first starting out. Ultimately though you need to treat them like women. There are some crucial differences. But I think that really can only come with experience. You know you’re doing it right if contact with her gradually makes you more masculine, and her more feminine. A woman with good instincts, properly treated, knows how to build up your masculine core. She can’t teach you any of the skills. But she can hone your motivations down from a formless block into a bright spear. Even if it’s through making you suffer acutely. Her very rejections are a way of saying, “Not like this. Like this.”

    At least, it can be like that in saner times.

    I’ve heard someone say – maybe Ian Ironwood? – that men sharpen men as iron sharpens iron. I agree. I would also add that women are like fire. Too close to them and you melt into a useless, red-hot slag. With improper application you can become annealed. But if you do it right, she will heat and soften you in such a way that you can reshape yourself. You can beat your swordlike shape into a plowshare, or vice versa. You can make a spear from a formless lump of bog iron – or if you have the gift, you can look high above to the arc of heaven, and forge the sky.

  20. BTW: a clarification – “I am allowed to report” is just me circulocuting generally. By that I mean only that I am seeing what I expect is a parallel to what RT now sees unfolding before him.

    So it’s my guess at best. No telepathy or inside connection on my part.

  21. The comment in the OP by Jack is something I completely agree with. I believe it was also Glenn who also made a similar comment about this a while back. He said something to the effect of, “Just how feasible is all of this? Some of us are born into certain circumstances, and bodies which we won’t ever have complete control over. Some of us may change ourselves slightly but is that enough to persuade those around us?”

    Also, Heartiste himself acknowledged this partially in a post about the most game will do for a man and he also brought up “certain physical pre-requisites” in establishing love for BOTH of the sexes (e.g. you won’t ever find a hot, young and tight girl falling in love with some short, fat, bald man).

    The Pareto Principle also comes to mind here. Some in the Manosphere think it’s bullshit or that it is overly simplified but i think it is the best law we currently have that ties into the SMP. It can be quite damaging to some men knowing that no matter how hard they will try, most will not make it to the top 20% in their lifetime. While there may seem that many men are currently at the top, I believe this scene from Margin Call puts it brilliantly (it starts at 2:42):

    “And there have always been and there always will be the same percentage of winners and losers, happy fuckers and sad suckers, fat cats and starving dogs in this world. Yeah, there may be more of us today than there’s ever been. But the percentages-they stay exactly the same.”

  22. I also would like to point out that women are realists and they tend to primarily appraise WHAT you already are, instead of WHO you are trying to be. While I do agree with the “burden of performance” principle, I believe it is men who value the performance of other men much more highly than if a woman were to appraise that of her own mate. Women will obviously always go for winners but at a core level, when she has options, are they honestly appraising him for his accomplishments or is there something more feral going on here(in terms of the visceral tingle)?

    There was study held at a college campus which tested out whether women will choose the most dominant men in a competition and what they found out was that women didn’t necessarily go for the most dominant men, but rather, they picked the man who was taller, more robust and more likely to win, irregardless of his actual performance in the competition.

    The study was about sexual choices and was a sidenote. I’ll post it if I can find it.

  23. A couple degrees – but not completely off topic. I need some advice.

    My 12 year old boy is doing just fine. He is being chased by a lot of girls, including one he’s friends with, and they’re doing the sorta-dating thing that kids do now. My kid is a little red pill aware. His first crush flamed out pretty badly and I told him not to worry, there are plenty of other cute girls to be had. He seems to ahve taken that to heart. The current girl is a friend and he likes her, but she is absolutely nuts about him, a classic mismatch where she’s way more into it than he is. Meanwhile, he’s thinking about this other girl that he wants to hang out with when school resumes – a taller, hotter, more popular girl (middle school is cruel, but informative). When this relationship runs its course, I’d prefer that my son ends the relationship and moves on in a non-destructive way, without lashing out or the other sorts of stuff kids his age (and ours) are prone to. The girl is a nice girl from a decent family, and I’d prefer if my son doesn’t condition her to expect to be treated like a pump & dump and if he could keep his shit together and behave himself when it goes down.

    What kind of advice would you give to a boy in that situation? Or would you hold back and just let him figure it out?

  24. Pareto, men and women value men’s performance in different ways. Women value men’s burden of performance from a solipsistic lens. What best serves her imperatives are what is valued.

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/06/11/case-study-creative-intelligence/

    Hot guy AF for the short term estrus breeding needs. Resourceful, adaptive BB guy for long term parental investment needs.

    The difference now is that no woman expects (or even prefers) to find optimization of both in the same man.

  25. Nice. Well done. A very personable and amiable interview, of course with the bit of seriousness expected.

    Also a smile towards Goldmund, who made it short and to the point (I also liked the Jack Donovan interview BTW).

    Thank you for that, Rollo.

  26. Haha Andrew….yeah, i prefer it just like that!!

    It’s my way or the highwaaaaayyyyyy lol

  27. ” The Pareto Principle also comes to mind here. Some in the Manosphere think it’s bullshit or that it is overly simplified but i think it is the best law we currently have that ties into the SMP. It can be quite damaging to some men knowing that no matter how hard they will try, most will not make it to the top 20% in their lifetime. “…And there have always been and there always will be the same percentage of winners and losers, happy fuckers and sad suckers, fat cats and starving dogs in this world. Yeah, there may be more of us today than there’s ever been. But the percentages-they stay exactly the same.”.

    At my advanced age, I come to read RP/Manosphere articles and comments to try and grasp the horrible shit that’s taking place in our society today. At first I was at a loss to understand what was happening, or better yet for ” why ” it was happening.

    Now 5 years plus inside, and I’m still wrestling with certain concepts.

    The whole ” winners and losers ” thing has never set right with me. I know that I have my own personal beliefs about why a man must NEVER except others evaluations of him, and that plays a huge role in my beliefs.

    Since coming to the sphere, I’ve learned that by many definitions, I am an Alpha male positively. I don’t feel like any kind of definition, and a label doesn’t effect me positively or negatively. Labels. For the love of everything holy and positive, guys – do not put value in labels!!!

    I think that one of the reasons that many men find change so difficult is because of the stock they put in labels or learned behaviors and an aversion to being willing to step the fuck away from what they consider ” normal and accepted “, even if normal and accepted isn’t working for them and is causing them grief unending.

    Attention all young men under 30 years old!!! – The concept of winners and losers is a fluid concept that changes according to the whims of a deteriorating society. If a bum in the gutter called you an asshole, would you be hurt and offended? Western Civ is turning into the bum in the gutter, for the most part.

    People can change or die trying. That’s it in a nutshell. I wasn’t born knowing how to do anything but eat and cry and shit, and neither were you.

    It’s a little to easy to get caught up in all of the science surrounding behaviors. Don’t ever allow yourself to rate yourself according to some ” scale ” or study, and use it as an excuse to not try to better yourself. Better to be Beta than Defeatist.

    Personally, I too struggle with the differing times that I grew up in versus the FI domination prevalent today. I try to stay mindful of this at all times.

    However I never think that there’s anything I can do or think that can’t be done or thought by any other man, unless that man has a mental issue preventing understanding.

    I don’t recall every running into a ” feminist ” while growing up. There was no internet to hear their ranting. Occasionally a few would show up on television or whatever. The girls I grew up with still wanted to learn to cook and clean and have children with ONE man. If a chick did try to say that she was equal to a man, she was told to STFU by men and women alike.

    I didn’t notice any real change until the mid to late 80’s, or early 90’s, and even then the changes were small and pretty insignificant.

    I’ve never had a problem getting laid. Ever. ( ..maybe now that I’m older and greyer and fatter it may be different. Yeah, probably. But probably not… Lol ) . I never really saw women as that complicated until later in life, but by that time I was no longer dealing with teen and 20-somethings mostly.

    But since I’ve been trying to help some young males, and I’ve been paying attention more, I have seen some troubling and horrifying shit indeed.

    I know scientist are studying men, young men especially, trying to figure out what’s happening, but that’s just stupid to me. Listen up, the education system changed, the legal system changed, society’s rules for male female interactions have changed, the definition (…there’s the fucking ” someone else’s definition ” thing I was talking about ) of masculinity has changed and is in constant flux. So how many fucking scientists will it take to figure out what went wrong?

    Add to all of the above that the economic system has pretty much collapsed.

    I know many will disagree with the above statement. I’m cool with that.

    Our society has been taken over by a Super Predator class of business folks. Businesses have record profits, more than at any time in history, and are sitting on giant surpluses of cash.

    But look at real employment. Look at the types of jobs available. Look at the pay for these jobs. Look with a sober eye, and not using your success as the barometer here. I’m doing Greeeaaaatttt, but I’m not blind to what’s happening to those coming up behind me. Money has bought our govt wholesale and the working class is paying the tab. The young workforce, as a whole, is getting the shaft.

    So what’s wrong with young men? Gee, I dunno. Someone should study it.

    If we as men can change into this monstrosity that the FI has molded or society into, then the reverse must also be true.

    Can masses of men change? Certainly. Look at skinny jeans and men talking on phones 24-7 and using FB. Lol.

    Individuals, that’s more complicated. I’m convinced that a majority of men can change many aspects of their lives. More than they think they can change. Going back to the whole Matrix theme, remember when Neo was told that if he believed in the Matrix, he could die in the Matrix. That’s illustrative of how hard some men clutch onto the negative beliefs of who they are or who they can be.

    Maybe a better approach is an RP for the negative aspects of society. If you’re short or fat or bald or socially inept, change starts with your perceptions of what all of that actually means. Does it mean your less as a person? Fuck no, that’s crazy. Does it mean that women in a certain societal mode of thinking may find you less attractive? Probably, but you must understand what forces are at work. Can a short guy get laid? I dunno, ask Tom Cruise ( or 1000 other short guys ). Can a bald guy get laid? I dunno ask Vin Diesel. Can a fat guy get laid? I dunno, ask Zach Galifianakis . Can a socially inept guy get laid? I dunno – the fucking list is too long to post here.

    Young man do not pedestalize under any circumstances and you will be better off and happier. The narrower your pussy field of vision is, the harder time you will have.

    The RP is your best chance in this world friends.

    If you can stand the truths it presents to you, and internalize them as you’ve internalized social media and smart phones, you will be happier and more successful in life. That is, as far as you can control outside influences.

  28. Re: The interview. Very nice. Once again I would say to young men to listen to it a few times. What Rollo is putting forth may not come easily to most, but it is worth it.

    For some ( maybe many ) this stuff will take you out of your comfort zone. Fuck your comfort. Recall learning how to ride a bike? Did you fall? Did you then just give up and never don a bicycle again?

    Comfort. If you want comfort, but a nice Barco lounger.

    Nice point made by RT about preventing women from going feral. You really can’t prevent that. You can minimize the chances only as much as the chick you’re dealing with is agreeable with. That’s why finding an LTR or a wife can be such a daunting task. You gotta be an expert interviewer.

    I did get married again after my first marriage blew up like a roadside IED. At first I figured I’d never do it again. At 54, I know I’d never do it again. But I had a strong urge to pull the trigger a second time because I know the exact moment in my first marriage where I fucked up and dropped my frame into the ocean. RT alludes to this in the video, where an Alpha starts letting the wife make decisions. That was my story. I figured it out close to the end of the marriage, but I think it would have been a cluster-fuck to try to go backwards and undo the loss of frame. So far, so good and it doesn’t take ” work ” once the feminine and masculine ” roles ” are defined and accepted pretty much.

    Like RT noted, it could all end tomorrow….but I think not just yet. If it does, at least I won’t be scratching my head.

  29. “Can masses of men change? Certainly. Look at skinny jeans and men talking on phones 24-7 and using FB. Lol.”

    An astute observation.

    And I think illustrative of a man’s innate need for a purpose in life. The observation above is a substitute for purpose, it’s something but lacks substance. The FI’s success has eliminated a man’s sense of purpose: productive labor. All that remains is channeling that energy to being fashionable, and generating tingles. Neither of those are satisfying in the long term, neither hold any sort of self validating meaning. I think as the lack of substance in what the FI expects from a man’s purpose (it serves the FI not the man) is what drives such things as MGTOW, and even Roosh’s crusade.

  30. Interesting interview in part 2. A few girls I was banging started “rebelling” which is the only word I can think of…they started lashing out at me for not being more “caring” more “attentive” or demanding more “equality”…

    They left. When I responded that “i’m the man you’re the woman”…I was met with a bunch of “you’re a sexist” type responses.

    I let them go. They claim they want someone essentially more “feminine”…and perhaps the fact so many OTHER guys are willing to assume that “equal” role that it becomes a struggle.

    I think your interview helps to stress that being your own “mental point of origin”…and understand where a woman’s “mental point of origin” comes from.

    Still trying to wrap my head around this idea, shed those occasional Blue Pill ideas that pop into my head like ghosts.

  31. Every man has his cross to bear. Its not helpful to look at the guy who has it easy. Anyways the guy who has it easy wont appreciate it. The world is full of people who started with a severe disability and they fought all the harder and went further than most because of it. IE James Earl Jones was a stutterer..now has one of the most famous most recognizeable voices in the world.

  32. “On the topic of being, instead of acting (which I’m 100% in agreement with), my current position is that this isn’t something that is possible for all men, or even “most”…”

    I wonder about this in regards to myself, and perhaps worry that it applies to me, that for all my reading, for all my intelligence, there are certain things I am just NOT going to get with Red Pill. Certainly not to the degree Rollo talks about where it is second nature, hell, even first nature.

    I have reading RM for a couple of years now, and have seen Rollo use the term “mental point of origin” and when he does, there is just like a vacant space there in my understanding of the term.

    I am not sure I can really explain this, but on a purely intellectual level I get what he is getting at with the phrase. YET, really, I don’t understand it. It is like someone explaining to the basic concept of a fourth dimension, but being unable to imagine or comprehend it. It is, in a way, and alien concept to me, like a cultural concept that can be outlined, but having not lived in it, don’t REALLY get.

    the behavioral differences from one male to the next are likewise the results of such inborn traits. These things can be…tweaked, but how far?”

    Whether it was the inborn traits I started with, or socialization which formatted my hard drive, I wonder whether I am really going to get to beyond it, that Red Pill as true core.

    I get what he means about how important it is to being living it, not acting it. It something I realized about Game about a year ago, after bouncing around everyones (MGTOW, PUA, MRA, etc, etc) theories. BUT, I don’t see myself getting there because I don’t have that mental point of origin.

    I am trying to articulate this and it is proving difficult, but perhaps what I am struggling with is NOT seeing the concept of mental point of origin so much as being able to get in touch with MINE. It’s like a part of my mind that was removed, or I was not born with; like people not being able to see certain colors from birth. They are just NOT there for them, although others have no problem seeing them. So, I understand Raynor’s proposition there, and while I don’t like it, I have to concede there might be something to it.

    Further evidence for me is when Raynor then goes on to mention the control of emotions in relation to this concept, he loses me. I am not a stupid person by any means, but I don’t get the connection, although Rollo seems to. What am I missing with it? Why am I missing it?

  33. @Seraph

    You’re having a mental block. If you over analyze a simple concept too much, it becomes muddled and impossible to act upon. I get when you say that you can understand the concept and not be able to ” feel ” it in regards to yourself.

    Sounds like you need a nice, quiet period of introspection. Nothing big or complicated, but you need to …how can I say it without sounding new-age-like….you need to get in touch with yourself, find yourself.

    If it’s not a normal part of your life, to get quiet and get inside yourself and do a little mental maintenance, it might just be a great tool for you to use, and it might open a few doors.

    My philosophy in life is that there’s nothing one man can do that I can not do, if I really WANT to do that thing. Or as John Lennon said..” there’s nothing you can do that can’t be done..”. Our programming can be a full blown bitch most times, and yours is just a case of that. It’s just an aspect of yourself and life that you’re not familiar with.

    Breathe grasshopper. You can do this in time.

  34. “Sounds like you need a nice, quiet period of introspection. ”

    Either that, or a good punch in the face.

  35. Seraph,

    Someone said to me recently:

    “…a man, at some point in his life, he has to stand on his own two feet and make his life and world what he wants it to be. He has to take on himself and his own limitations. It’s not easy and many men won’t, but (ed: changed the following words) …”in the manosphere”…, I’m interested in encountering other men who are up for playing the same tough game. Not quitters. Not whiners. Not guys who are pissed they can’t get laid, but won’t do anything about it.”

    I didn’t sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I did watch some episodes of the “Lie to Me” detective drama in the past. The main character was good at interpreting microexpressions, through the Facial Action Coding System, and body language.

    Rollo’s eyes and emphatic words said this with micro-expressions. He means what he explains. He’s tired of your excuses. He’s tired of the fact that after years of writing, his commentariat still Get through triage and get on with your inter-sexual relationships. A video is worth a thousand words.
    Rollo has never done an interview where you couldn’t re-interpret after 2 or 3 listenings. I would encourage everyone to do so.

    I would go so far as to say this to another person (but this is tempered by the fact that I am a non-empathetic judgmental person. It is not true, it is simply my take. Rollo is non-judgmental, I think, and he cares deeply about saving men from tragedy. I am saying this merely to provoke discussion and have men advance their football foreward.):

    ” Rollo even seems to be getting pissed at what he is hearing from the weak men commentators as evidenced by his steely interview with Goldmund. You can see the disgust in Rollo’s eyes and the way he spits out his words on internalize, internalize and be natural about being a positive masculine male. You need to just do it”

    No offense meant to any males out there. I’m non-empathetic, but want the best for all of you.

    To just do it, you have to have resources be able to feel confident with mastery.

    You have the skills, get on with your motivation and work through denial, anger, bargaining and depression and move on to acceptance of your lot in life. And then capitalize on your positive masculine identity. Be better at being a masculine male and reap the benefits. Don’t settle for a non-feminine partner.

    In Rollo’s video interview, I think it is apparent that some need to read what he writes and just get it. Stop with the excuses, the whining and the ego investments that make it hard to adapt and change your way of thinking and acting to a more pragmatic way of being a masculine male. Just Get It.

    If you are not a natural work at it. It has been explained. Write your own script for your background and skills. Skip the reasons why you can’t, could not possibly or won’t. Just do it.

    I’m at the five yard line in the football “red zone” and I’m going in for the touchdown. Thank you Rollo for your work. I owe you a debt of gratitude for the tools you have given me.

    Life is beautiful and all individuals can make their own life more sublime.

    Anyone pick up on Rollo’s visual micro facial expression’s? Including the question to Rollo himself. Don’t you think we all have the ability to elevate our game, no matter where we came from and what we have to work with?

    All of us deserve to do better for ourselves.

  36. All,

    I see some good insights relating to my questions/issues were posted before I wrote my post. I will try to get to them if I can.

    @Rollo,

    I have both your books, and have read that post more than once. Thanks. You do got to do some lengths to explain it. Here is the issue for me.

    Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about HOW YOU YOURSELF FIT INTO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF FRAME.

    Therein lies my issue.

    I have NO fucking idea how I fit into my frame, or even what my fucking frame is. Perhaps that is what I really sense is missing from my psyche. But without that, it is no wonder that I have no sense of my mental point of origin.

    I am frameless…okay, no, it is not that I have no frame, but the one I have is not mine. It is a bunch of other people’s, spouses, family, friends, etc.

    Part of this may simply be genetics. Many in my extended family are not, how you would say, forceful in their behavior, in voicing their issues openly. With some noticeable exceptions, we don’t rock boats.

    Some of it is upbringing. I grew up with an older sibling who was the direct opposite, VERY self-interested to the point of being a narcissist, likely bi-polar. Parents were ill-equipped to handle it, so that:

    “For most of us our understanding of that point of origin develops when we’re children. Kids are necessarily “selfish”, sometimes cruel and greedy because our first survival instinct is to naturally put ourselves as our mental point of origin. Only later, with parenting and learning social skills do we begin to share, cooperate, empathize and sympathize as our mental point of origin shifts to putting the concerns of others before our own.

    Young boys are generally very Alpha because of this unlearned self-importance.”

    I was the direct opposite. I, at a young age, had to shut down that selfish, greedy concept of self-importance and view a lot of things through the lens of not rocking my parents boat any more than it was already being rocked. I did not got through that stage, it seems, and I find myself having lived to please other people (or not offend them at least).

    So, to answer your questions from that post:

    “Is your first inclination to consider how something in your relationships will affect you or your girlfriend/wife/family/boss?”

    Don’t forget my fucking friends…YES! I tend to agonize over what they might be feeling first, second. I have made strides against that, but still tend to do it.

    “When men fall into relationships with authoritarian, feminine-primary women, their first thought about any particulars of their actions is how his woman will respond to it, not his own involvement or his motivations for it. Are you a peacekeeper?”

    I come from a long line of peacekeepers, I guess, and kept the tradition alive, sacrificing my own desires and interests.

    Also did that out of fear, don’t forget that. Makes it easier to do when you are doing it to keep the peace rather than out of fear.

    “Do you worry that putting yourself as your own first priority will turn a woman off or do you think it will engage her more fully?”

    I used to. I was overly concerned with women’s feelings in general, curbing my own desires to ‘protect’ them and such.

    Now, (and maybe this is still the same thing…you tell me) I try to figure out as a family guy how to stretch myself without…well, fuck, there I go again worrying about other people’s needs…

    But, how do I balance this and make sure I am still being a good dad? My father was a good guy, but was not around a whole lot or all that interactive compared to many, focused on stuff he was trying to do, some of which was keeping food on the table. I want to be there for my kids while trying to find that friggin’ frame.

    That brings up Blaximus

    @Blaximus,

    You are spot on. For YEARS I have felt I need some time to just stop and think, or more likely, reflect, but there always seems to be something getting in the way. Always something to goddamn attend to, and not to let myself off the hook, I find shit to distract myself as well.

    I am out of touch with myself, which is why I lack any comprehension of my frame. I have gotten some good advice from people here, and have tried to put it to use, exploring my interests, seeing where they will lead me. Took up photography for one, and have enjoyed it for example, and it is a way to be in the moment.

    More than author I have read, books and web, have suggested I need to take time alone, even a weekend, to try to ‘find myself’ without distractions, and that appeals, but as Rollo asks above, I avoid simply doing it imagining some disruptive effect.

    (shakes head)

    I realize part of my problem is I am trying to split the difference even as I wonder why I can’t make progress into this self-knowledge. I am resisting it because I wish to play it safe in many ways. I am still seeking to not rock the boat, at least no openly. I have my little rebellions under pseudonyms, pushing back at things that annoy me, but I don’t take more decisive steps.

    I have made a hell of a lot of progress since abject Blue Pill, but I am seeking change even while I am desiring things to remain hassle-free. I tend to play it safe to the point of absurdity.

    Sounds like you need a nice, quiet period of introspection.

    Hoh, boy…Yes, please! Sounds dandy, Guvner!

    Yes, I do feel that if had some time, some distance from the chaos, I might be able to better find me inside of me (yes, this does sound a little hippy dippish, but I have seen the wisdom in things like Zen so I am going with it).

    So perhaps the reason that I refuse to see my frame, Rollo and all, is that I don’t wish to embrace all that would entail. I would have to redefine the relationship dynamics in my entire life, and looking at that, I am saying:

    “oh, fuck…”

    Still, I creep toward it, because life as I am living it is not satisfying as I feel it should be, and I am less and less accepting of it.

    Okay, bit of a vent, but worthwhile.

  37. “Sounds like you need a nice, quiet period of introspection. ”

    Either that, or a good punch in the face.

    Hah!

    Fight Club!

    That movie makes more and more sense to me.

  38. The debate concerning nature vs nurture ignores free will. The fear of innate limitations also ignores free will. Concerns about innate limitations are also used as excuses for not exercising free will. That being said, free will does not come freely. It must be deliberately employed.

    Developing self confidence at anything new takes time and comes only with practice. Reconditioning oneself after a lifetime or a childhood of this feminine socialization is not easy, quick or without difficulty. The difficulty most primairly occurs with maintaining oneself as the center of ones origin and not succumbing to so many prestablished lies, villifications, and distortions. There exists a well established network of social conventions and default responses defending the FI that simultaneously condition men to self denigrate. It is a multi layer web.

    The suggestion that any man is incapable of significant change because he is hopelessly innately limited is a distortion. All men are capable of great transformation. It is a matter of choice, initiative and dedication. It is up to each individual man. Never underestimate the power of personal resolve.

  39. Thanks for doing this interview Rollo, it’s very personable and it’s good to hear you speak frankly. I do believe that it’s difficult for a man to internalize the red pill. Most play the game which I consider the same as PUA scripts, then reveal their true blue pill underbelly. I am guilty of this myself. I have a easy time with ONS but keeping them around is difficult because I let out my true colors after a while. BUT… to clarify this ONLY happens with women who have a higher SMV than I do or “out of my league.” With women I perceive as not “good enough” I don’t even have to think about my responses to shit tests or even text game or my actions because I have already categorized her in the “not good enough for a relationship but good for sex” section. Perhaps the best way to internalize red pill is to raise SMV as high as you can.

  40. ” . . . women who have a higher SMV than I do . . .”

    I have heard of these, but I have never met one.

  41. Seraph,

    “So perhaps the reason that I refuse to see my frame, Rollo and all, is that I don’t wish to embrace all that would entail. I would have to redefine the relationship dynamics in my entire life, and looking at that, I am saying:
    “oh, fuck…”
    Still, I creep toward it, because life as I am living it is not satisfying as I feel it should be, and I am less and less accepting of it.”

    You said it. It is all about ego investment. All you told yourself based on all what everybody told you growing up was wrong.

    Don’t fret your past life. Make it past triage.

    Google the term triage. You may make it or not. It is up to you.

    I cannot keep repeating over that your grief over how your station in life depends on your ability to get through the Kubler-Ross stages of grief over a ego investment to overcome in life. Google that or remember what I have said in past comments. Broken record me: get on through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and move on through to acceptance of it. Get to acceptance and move on.

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/

    Repeat: Just do it. Just get it.

    Goldmund’s video is telling.

  42. @SJF,

    I hear you. I do. I know I do because what you wrote made me a little annoyed:

    “Just get it? If I could just fucking just GET IT, I would. Fucking da-OOouche!”

    But, in the end, I get it. Talking about (writing about) shit has its limits. There needs to be do, do, do. In many ways, I am avoiding. I am avoiding making decisions, making choices, and risking.

    I think where you are a little harsh is not realizing that is easier for others based on experience/genes. I tried to explain this to Danny504 when he was still blogging. It you are ease, have always been at ease with this shit, with anything, it’s can be easy to be contemptuous of those who are not. Some people did NOT have instruction in certain things, and did not have a circle of friends who saw things as they were.

    Some people’s experience are literally alien to your own, and it is hard to understand what their stumbling blocks are.

    Yet, I do get what you are saying. One needs to strive and break through on their own, because it is the nature of the thing. It cannot always be taught, but in the end in can be learned. Just understand everyone comes with a different starting point. Some are WAY behind.

  43. @SJW,

    You said it. It is all about ego investment. All you told yourself based on all what everybody told you growing up was wrong.

    Don’t fret your past life. Make it past triage.

    Google the term triage. You may make it or not. It is up to you.

    I get it. I resent and bemoan the past, but I am reluctant to break with it all the same. It has a certain comfort for all its discomfort.

    I am making progress, but I grow frustrated at it’s pace, particularly because I am on the latter half of the life cycle. But I am determined to, at the very least, dump all the garbage that has accumulated in my psyche all these years.

    I appreciate the direct words.

  44. Ya. The rest of the world scolds the West for being colonialists… Yes. That is classic example of shaming.

    BUT,colonialism was actually beneficial to the shit holes people call “the third world”; but most “third world” hot heads will not accept that fact.

    This may have racist overtones but I dare spit it out all the same.

    You’re right to do so.

    I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again: sex realism (i.e. TRP) and race realism are inseparable. We can try avoiding the subject or race and coddle the feelings of anti-racists (i.e. anti-whites) as much as we want. But facts are facts, no matter how unpleasant they are. The dogmas of “gender equality” and racial equality stem from the same sham ideology of liberalism, therefore it’s not possible to question one without questioning the other.

  45. Seraph – “I did not got through that stage, it seems, and I find myself having lived to please other people (or not offend them at least).”

    But why? Were you motivated by a desire for approval or an attempt to avoid punishment?

    I always sought to avoid punishment. I tried to negotiate some level of forbearance or trust hoping to receive the “benefit of the doubt” when needed. I never got it. From a place of indoctrination wherein everything was my fault I retreated as much as possible from being a cause of anything and successfully found invisibility except from the parents for whom a lack of rebellious behavior was in itself suspicious. The whole notion of approval seeking is alien to me because it was never an option in my mind.

  46. @Hoellenhund2

    Sex differences exist. Definitely racial differences exist. Studies demonstrate that the Asians have high IQs, the whites somewhere in the middle, and the blacks low IQs. There are exceptions here and there but as rule, it is what it is. The races are not in the same boat when it comes to IQ (and many other traits too).

    However, reading through the RM, I realized that what I have experienced with women where I come from pretty much mirrors what Rollo lays out. It appears that women from all races will treat their men much the same way. So in a way, a white man will be treated the same by his woman…and him thinking that it is going to be any different just because he is white; he is mistaken. So men are pretty much “in the same boat” when dealing with their women.

  47. ^^^
    Cosign.

    Intersexual relations are still a commonality throughout all races, creeds and ethnicity. Even within subsets of the same race. The context changes, the strategies don’t.

  48. I also have issues about all the terms and labels flying around in the menosphere.
    In my opinion, a man just can be really “alpha” when he is strong enough and persistent enough to fully go his own way.

    A real man has to be like that….the women saying
    A real man has to be like this…..the PUA people saying

    A lot of people want to manipulate (i.e control) men. Because only men can secure the high living standard we western people are enjoying. Everyone knows this and that’s why we men are all facing these shaming tactics..from friends, relatives and so on.

    After my Red Pill studies, my answer is: ” It’s me who decides where i go and how i have to be !”

    We are talking now about, if a lot men are able and willing to “change” .

    Rollo is writing much about “how” a man can change.

    But the question if men are willing to change, is the key question for me.

    In order that a man is willing to change, he must have a readiness, INCENTIVES to do the steps to RP mindset.

    If you do it just because of women (like most men in here), you will fall very deep.

    The quality of women is very low today and it will even get worse.
    Every man has to deal with this!!! The sooner the better…for you !

    It doesn’t matter if a man travels to a 3rd World country or wherever you guys want to travel. It will be the same…EVERYWHERE!

    By the way…iam african…and i had european, american, south-east asian, south-american and indian girls. I have met them all here in germany. And it’s really remarkable that all these women are thinking and behaving the same!

    Full Stop….

    As Rollo always say it..again and again….RP is much more than to fuck as much women as you can. It’s a “new” lifestyle…a way to a new postiv masculinity.

    Mankind..and especially men had always to adapt to the new living conditions. What we are facing nowadays..as men…is just another adaptation to a new living condition !

  49. @ Not born this morning.

    I would agree with your points about free will and self improvement but only as a generalisation. The exception being severe and enduring mental illness, severe personality disorder and learning difficulties. The latter tend to limit the ability to self improve beyond a certain point. (Although there are of course also exceptions to the rule) Unfortunately, the argument that mental health vulnerability is genetic would mean that not all men are born equal but with differing potential for self-improvement. I would state then that most men are capable of great transformation but unfortunately not all.

  50. I am a nature over nurture kind of man, for more reasons then could be listed. Free will seems to have a lot less impact the on most folks then modern thought is comfortable with. It’s a rare man who rises above his dysfunctional nature. I reckon most folks with fucked up lives come from fucked up genes. Where nurture comes is this; in a good situation a man can make the most of his life with his limitations

    Think back when we had an economy based on production, automation and immigration had not yet destroyed that sort of thing and how not bright guys could earn a living. That was a good sistution. Now his genes have fucked him and the situation has double fucked him.

    Regarded by women, generally acting is enough for them. They aren’t very smart, easily taken in with miss direction. They think the guy with a bmw and $700 a month car note is wealthier then the farmer in a truck, million dollars worth of land in tillage he inherited and $100k in the bank.

    Acting vs being; being is better for the man, not sure it matters much when it comes to the SMP & banging your typical girl. There are enough typical girls to keep him well feed.

    Like BP I don’t think the West owes the world a damn thing. In fact part of Westren men’s problem is no longer seeing the non Westren world as a resource to exploit for the benefit of Westren men. Viewing others and their shit as a resource to exploit is a key ingredient of a robust masculine mind set and an energetic people.

    The way I reckon things, acting out of emotion is a sign of low IQ or immaturity…. and I am uncertain a man can be mature and low IQ. Average to somewhat bellow average? Sure. Low? Doubtful.

    Blaximus I am stealing the Super Predator line

    Winners and losers; that’s life we are all one or the other at certain points in life. Key is, stay focused on your mission. Th ups and downs of life get easier to deal with come age, experience and prospective

  51. @SFC Ton,

    Good to hear from ya.

    Nature vs Nurture. I fall in the 50-50 category. I’ve read arguments on the side of both nature and nurture over a few decades, and both sides have valid points. I’ve seen too many exceptions to both rules to champion one over the other.

    IQ. not since Stormfront have I seen so many people harping on IQ… ( I joke a little..).

    If you put Stephen Hawking on a desert island for 2 weeks, all you’ll have is a very smart dead man.

    Anectdotal story #1080 . My dad had a auto bodyshop for over 35 years. I worked there off and on most of my life. My dad was a metalworking genius. He always said he was horrible at math, and then he would lay out string lines to check the geometry of an automobile while repairing it to make sure the measurements were exact.

    Anyway, I used to hear him say something that bothered me greatly, and one day I had to call him out on it. Across the street from our shop was a giant pharma company. It was a true revenue source for the business as much of our clientele was employed there.

    From time to time certain customers used to come in and try to talk down the price to repair their vehicles. Sometimes my dad would cave and we’d make very little on a job. When I questioned him as to why he gives in so much that it’s not all that profitable, he would tell me sometimes that the client was ( a doctor, a lawyer, a scientist ) a really smart person and he’d get tired of fighting them on the price.

    To which I explained to him ” If they are so fucking smart, why can’t they fix their own damn car???”.

    Much stock is put in IQ levels. I’m an old man, and to me it’s just another label that people will use to judge others by, or people will use this mythical bullshit number to make them selves feeeel good.

    But I already know after 40 years of debating this, that it is a losing argument on my end because it is another deeply held, science proven belief system. I mean, unless you are so mentally deficient that it becomes hard to function, what des that number really say?

    Message to young cats reading this blog or any other, Question all labeling systems that are designed to differentiate and categorize individuals to identify the ” lesser “. If you have an IQ of 148 but have a plethora of difficulties in your life, and a dick that has never come near a pussy with the frequency that you feel adequate, then..WTF? There is such a thing as being paralyzed by intelligence. Don’t be that guy.

    Cultivate various interests. I work in the IT/Tech field for over 30 damn years. I work with some wonderful, smart and talented individuals. I also work with an assload of highly intelligent, broken, sad assed people. Everyone needs a certain amount of intelligence, whether it’s a natural gift through genetics or accident, or it’s acquired through diligent learning. But being a higher functioning, well rounded individual is the E-ticket ride.

    Ton it is true that at some point in life, we are all winners and losers. Part of a natural cycle for anyone trying to do shit. I just don’t want folks to get stuck in loser mode, especially if that mode is defined by others.

  52. Whoop, premature post

    @Blaximus

    IQ is a tool. Like a gun. You can use it to blast a motherfucker or to shoot yourself in the dick. Depending on if you’re an idiot or not.

    And higher isn’t always better, with IQ or with caliber. Lots of dudes use it to get all caught up in their heads instead of applying it. Like building up vanity muscles in the gym you never use.

  53. Hi Rollo,

    On rereading Truth to Power a very inspirational post, I wanted to hear your thoughts on men with families such as my self choosing to travel on vacation alone.

    In your videos above you touched on masculine qualities (ie) men being in the driver seat around decision making. I have a wife you as with many women is cultured to try assume headship of the household with decision making even vacations etc.

    She doesn’t want to travel abroad as we have a 7 month old son where as I feel there is no reason why she should worry about doing so. Anyway the crux of the issue is I am only 28 years old and having sacrificed my independence early (at 25) have a desire to travel and I don’t care about rocking the boat to make that happen.

    I would love to hear some advice about the benefits of and good ways of grabbing hold again of control of our own circumstances and decisions!

  54. Hey Seraph

    This shit’s tricky man. You need to tear yourself apart from the inside out, and to care more about become more yourself than you do about the pain.

    Killing the beta fucking hurts, the sucker fights like a demon. I had to bash it over the head again today and it really took the wind outta my sails. But it’s happening less and less as time goes by.

    I laughed at KFG above re: “” . . . women who have a higher SMV than I do . . .”
    I have heard of these, but I have never met one.”

    Because I have felt bits and snatches of that. ‘Who does this bitch think she is, just cause she’s got a rack and high heels? She’s no fun to interact with. Go away.’ And i think if I keep fighting they’ll become more frequent.

    So yeah, it’s frustrating hearing us bash you down. Internally you can see how hard you’re fighting, what you’ve accomplished, etc. From the outside, it’s still easy to see how far you can take yourself yet. Generally, I try to watch closely for a defensive reaction in myself. I value them, it means some-one said something to me I would have never allowed myself to think of otherwise. And i can correct based upon it.

    Anyways, to be more concrete – I would try and hang out with people that you feel superior to sometime. Like, full-stop, I’m better than these people, I feel no need to defer to them. That gives you a real lightbulb moment when it comes to understanding your frame and way of interacting with people from a more confident, self-centered perspective.

    I went to a high school class reunion a few months back and was pleased (though not surprised) to see how I could interact with people I was once intimidated by from a sense of power and authority – if not over them, at least within myself. And the way that changed how they all interacted with me.

    If you’re not respected by your family, your job, or social circles – and you’ll know the difference between respect and mere affection or politeness when you feel it – you need to find some social circle wherein you are respected. Just so you can begin to get a feel for it.

    Respect is a virtuous cycle. External respect feeds into a frame of internal respect, and your self-respect/frame feeds into how people respect you.

    Just as above: As you think, so you shall become.

    But start with the easy targets here. Changing the perspectives of people who have known you long and intimately is the masterwork.

  55. Why is it mostly men that die and fight in war? Men have honor.

    Why is it expected that men provide for and protect women? Men have honor.

    Why is it that primarily men work the life threatening, life shortening, dirty, dangerous jobs? Men have honor.

    Why do women expect men to pay for their meals? Men are morons.

    Why do women collect 90+% of alimony and child support. Men are morons.

    Men have honor = men are morons.

    Most of you will learn nothing from this post.

  56. “Most of you will learn nothing from this post.”

    Indeed, directly proportional to the knowledge contained therein.

  57. Never ever give a woman your love. You need discipline to remove it out of your system.
    Here is the simplest reason why you should never love or be loyal :
    It’s like a job, you should love your job for the money only. you would loss your job if you don’t perform, you would be replaced if you don’t perform. Your boss never loved you, you should never love your boss either.
    You loss your job/wealth, you lose your woman too. Your woman loses her job/ wealth you don’t leave her .

    Even if you have a “quality” woman and she sticks by you when you’re down her tingles for you are gone.

    Never give your love to any woman, your replacement doesn’t cost her anything.

    She loves her body ONLY and so should you.

    Ps
    And don’t ever get married.

  58. “Indeed, directly proportional to the knowledge contained therein.”

    There was a ton of knowledge in that little post, BadPainter. It’s the simple posts like that that inspire great change among the moronic masses.

    Men Have Honor = Men Are Morons

    Do you know how Bernard Madoff was able to scam so many thousands upon thousands of their wealth, blood, sweat and love? He simply showed them what they wanted to see and told them what they wanted to hear.

    In just that one paragraph, most everything you need to know about life can be learned.

  59. Hey Tim,

    Nearly any system, well or poorly designed, diverse or specific in purpose, has a thumbscrew. Nearly any social circumstance or political system has a way, practically built in, to game the system.

    Men are no different. Their honor and idealism is brilliant and effective. It is also a potential lever for manipulation, for those with the inclination.

    PUA’s – good ones – tend to have tons of stories where they just did some douchey but dominant things in front of hot girls, and weren’t idiots with their social calibration, and the girls enthusiastically chose them over men with far better credentials and accomplishments. Are women morons?

    Well, not really. But if you understand the system, you can hack it.

    In the current environment, women tend to understand the system better than men do. Because men are actively shamed for trying to understand it. And so men are routinely manipulated.

    So learn what the system is here. And lay down your arms.

  60. “So learn what the system is here. And lay down your arms.”

    There is no “system”, Forge the Sky. I have nothing to lay down – I’m not an arms dealer. Though I loved all you wrote – and am glad you replied – you missed my point entirely.

    Wake up one Saturday and be happy no woman is there. Be satisfied in the knowledge that the entirety of the day is yours to do with as you wish. Be confident in yourself that you woke up alone and have forged your way on your own terms. Do with that day what you want – regardless of women or the hunt. Don’t try to prove yourself to others. Prove that you – as an independent being – rule your own destiny. After you do that, do it again for another day, or two. Then a week, or two. Then a month, or two. Then…

    After that, tell me how you feel about my confrontational disposition.

    Mine isn’t a system, Forge the Sky. Mine is the way.

  61. Here’s some real gold advice for you – MORONS! I post all over the Internets and have noticed one very, very important thing in particular. YOU READY, MORONS!? ARE YOU READY!? NO! YOU’RE NOT READY – MORON! YOU THINK YOU’RE READY – BUT YOU’RE NOT READY!

    I so hope you’re listening and that I’ve somehow grabbed your attention. Most men can’t grasp or accept what I’m about to post. Here goes:

    I regularly post on sites with information that is negative to women. I spend three hours on average per day posting information that works against women in dating and relationships (I’m a genius and independently wealthy – which is how I can afford to do it). Can you guess how much of what I post is removed from those sites I visit, for three hours per day, on average? NEARLY ALL OF IT! Yes! Nearly all of what I write is removed from sites that disparage men and exalt women. Why do you think that is, future genius? I’ve been posting every day for five years and you won’t be able to find 1/5000th of what I’ve written in the mainstream. Why do you think that is? Why isn’t TheRationalMale.com a world wide sensation?

    The truth is being hidden from you. You will never understand all you don’t know because no one wants you to know it. Ever hit a site and wonder why no other man pointed out the blatantly obvious? BECAUSE A MAN DID! SEVERAL MEN POINTED OUT THE OBVIOUS AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR COMMENTS WAS REMOVED BY THE GYNOCRACY AND THE WHITE KNIGHTS!

    If you don’t believe what I’ve written above, test it out for yourself. Say some seriously disparaging shit about women on a site geared towards relationships between men and women. Don’t be shocked when your post – and all that reply to you – magically evaporates. Here’s one I posted that was summarily removed. Not only was my post removed, but all posts in reply were removed as well. This is a mainstream site geared toward open communication between men and women. I was merely answering the author’s questions:

    =================================================

    “To all those guys who don’t want to get married and rather cohabit, because in the event of a divorce you’d loose half your assets, would you still feel the same if your SO came into some money?”

    =================================================
    My Reply:

    Marriage, for the past 50 years, has only benefited women. Countless millions of men’s lives, in the US alone, have been destroyed in that time. Every year, tens of thousands of men commit suicide. There’s a very good reason why the marriage rate has been declining for the past 50 years and is now at it’s lowest point in US history. It’s an outdated institution that disproportionately harms men’s lives. For that reason, marriage is declining the globe over. Wherever the women’s movement goes, marriage declines and out of wedlock births increase.

    “Would you still be happy to cohabit and not get married, knowing she had a lot more money than you?”

    Absolutely not. Men are still expected to be men – which is a horrific double standard of the women’s movement – one in which women seem to take a bizarre pleasure in enforcing. Men are mocked for not being manly enough and then mocked when they’re too manly. The hypocrisy of the women’s movement is stunning. In the military, women are filing suits by the thousands every year. How will women face combat with the enemy? Half of women think women in the military is a bad idea because – female. The other half think that the standards for women should be lowered to make it “fair”. As a result, in a combat situation, the men are going to end up taking care of the female combatants in addition to fighting the enemy. Men are taught they can never hit women but are supposed to serve with them and fight them? Can you imagine if men approached the military in this manner? This same logic applies to marriage. The hypocrisy and double standards are stunning. There will come a time when we have a disproportionate number of females in high-level, non-combat military positions – removing men from the competition in the same way affirmative action removes men from competition in the public, private and education sector.

    “Would you propose? Or remain cohabiting?”

    I would exit the relationship post haste. I personally don’t commit in relationships with women. Marriage is out of the question regardless. Until society erases the insane expectations on men and the double standards and hypocrisy of the women’s movement, marriage will continue it’s decades long decline world wide. As we all know, this will never happen. The hypocrisy and double standards will become more and more clear as each day passes. As a result, marriage, regardless of the economy, will continue to decline. This in turn will cause women to demand ever more misandric laws and policies – which male politicians will enact for chivalrous, anti-male reasons.

    Countries like the UK – claiming that breakups for women from their boyfriends are too economically disparaging – are now trying to force marriage after X number of months of cohabitation – giving girlfriends the same rights to asset division and alimony as formally married women. They call it the “Cohabitation Rights Bill”. Half of all adult women in the UK are now unmarried. Many countries have already implemented such a law.

    “Yes Means Yes”, a law specifically written to stop the “rape culture” on college campuses, lays the responsibility of gaining consent at each stage of physical contact on the male. If she’s drunk, she can’t consent, period. “Can I kiss you? Can I open your shirt? Can I touch your breast? Can I penetrate your vagina?” At any point during the different stages of sexual contact, if the male can’t prove consent or that consent wasn’t withdrawn, he’s guilty and will be expelled from college. He’s presumed guilty until he can prove he’s innocence – which the kangaroo courts make impossible. His rights under the constitution to presumption of innocence and due process are revoked under college law. There is now an app for sexual consent between college students. Feminists are against the app and are pushing to have this law the standard at the criminal justice level. Men can already be removed from their homes if a wife claims domestic violence. No proof necessary to have the man removed.

    Get married? You have to be seriously uniformed or completely naive as a man to get married. Get married to a wealthier woman? If you want to be seen both covertly and overtly as a kept man – by both men, women and your wife – go for it.

    =================================================

    The follow on comments were by a woman that clearly had it out for men and/or anyone that disputed female victim-hood, which is why the above post and every comment related to it were removed. I’m talking about a mainstream site deleting posts here, MORONS! Her comments were kept. Mine were removed and no comments contradicting the removal of my comments were ever allowed to appear.

    When you go to mainstream sites and read the comments section, YOU MUST CONCLUDE THAT NONE OF WHAT YOU READ IS CHALLENGED. SOME HYPOCRITICAL, FAT ASS FEMINIST HAS HAD EVERYTHING YOU’VE WRITTEN REMOVED!

    I hope I’ve reached you, men. I hope you can see that everything with which you’re being presented is a dooms day bomb in wait. Wherever you go in the mainstream, I’ve already been there and I’ve already been removed.

    I thank TheRationalMale.com and their brilliant grey matter and for all they do – for men.

  62. Correction
    “She loves her body ONLY and so should you.”

    I don’t even think women love their bodies either.

  63. “Nearly all of what I write is removed from sites that disparage men and exalt women. Why do you think that is, future genius? ”

    Because you have no idea how to make good use of your time.

    “I hope I’ve reached you, men.”

    I’m not sure I’ve got it yet, show me again how to suck eggs, son. After that, maybe you can show me how to tie my shoes.

  64. As in the last thread, and in this thread I’m bewildered how no one DARED to understand and comprehend Rollo’s honesty and graciousness about saying the truth about marriage.
    A marriage strike by men is the only weapon against Hypergamy/feminists.

    Ps
    To me marriage strike means nothing, I just know too much about women.
    I pity men who still dwell on loving women and wanting to “travel” to find the holly grail.

  65. @Tim

    “Wake up one Saturday and be happy no woman is there. Be satisfied in the knowledge that the entirety of the day is yours to do with as you wish. Be confident in yourself that you woke up alone and have forged your way on your own terms. Do with that day what you want – regardless of women or the hunt. Don’t try to prove yourself to others. Prove that you – as an independent being – rule your own destiny. After you do that, do it again for another day, or two. Then a week, or two. Then a month, or two. Then…

    After that, tell me how you feel about my confrontational disposition.

    Mine isn’t a system, Forge the Sky. Mine is the way.”

    I already do that, lol. It’s the bomb. Could use a few chicks down to come over from time to time, but I’ll get there.

    I’m not quite sure how to address you past that. I’m not proposing a ‘system,’ I’m describing the dynamics that already underlie our social interactions. And, as I interpret it\, that’s the central point of this blog.

    Maybe lose the messiah complex? If there is a ‘way,’ it’s not gonna be found by preaching against the choir.

  66. “@Tim, been there, blogged that…”

    I was writing in a general sense. Rollo Tomassi is respected and admired all across the Internets. That you give me a space, without censor, to voice my humble opinion is a mark of your character and a testament to your integrity. Your site and words are an inspiration unmatched.

    If I happened to repeat a response to an issue to which you’ve already covered, then I hope my opinion is charted as nothing more than a footnote to your own.

    Everybody loves you, Rollo. Myself included. Thanks for keeping my posts.

  67. “Maybe lose the messiah complex? If there is a ‘way,’ it’s not gonna be found by preaching against the choir.”

    The difference between me and others is that I believe you can separate yourself from women entirely and be a much happier and better soul for the wear. I believe women only add to the misery and pain of life for men.

    I’m not a messiah – nor are women. I’m a simple individual just like you. I appreciate your thought provoking, honest reply.

  68. “I’m not sure I’ve got it yet, show me again how to suck eggs, son. After that, maybe you can show me how to tie my shoes.”

    I hear you – wise one. I often write with the intention of reaching young men. You know – so they don’t fall into known traps. I forget that my words are sometimes offensive to men that have previously been to the circus. Please forgive my lack of respect and sometimes short sighted outlook.

  69. @Tim

    Great post. When trying to discuss something deep, the words fail most of the times, It is not every day that I read something deep expressed so clearly. You blog too? I tried to follow the Gravatar link to your profile but it did not seem to lead me anywhere. If you don’t blog, you should start. I will be reading.

    PS:
    When the tone is brash, it offends every one, not just the old timers. Even the young men will be offended too. And that is OK. Offence should be common place where men meet. And this is where the men meet.

  70. Tim’s Wisdom Exposed:

    Things perps tell you that are most often untrue and that are meant to illicit a loss on your part and a gain by the perp in question (AKA – LIES THAT WOMEN TELL NAIVE, MORONIC MEN TO OPEN SAID MORONIC MEN’S WALLETS – JUST LIKE WOMEN PLAY NAIVE MEN THROUGH MARRIAGE):

    I love you.

    You’re my best friend.

    We’re family.

    If at any time a woman utters the above words, if you’re a man (non-lesbianonic), if you haven’t already, encrypt all of your secret info, leaving nothing to potential past, current and future interlopers. Prepare your will – and tell your children, if they’ve not yet been enlisted to assist in your murder – how much you’ll miss them after your soon to be X wife has you snuffed out for the insurance payout and the follow on tryst with the McDonald’s cashier and local pool boy.

  71. Hey cheupez,

    “When the tone is brash, it offends every one, not just the old timers. Even the young men will be offended too.”

    Thanks much for your reply, cheupez. I don’t blog. I’m a frequent commenter on many sites, however. Many a man before me has already said everything I have to say, so I’m happy with the thought that I might re-invent something that helps the younger guys avoid the pitfalls. My goal is to free men from the disaster of divorce and the life destruction that comes with it. I spend hours every day online hoping to reach just one soul before he’s destroyed by some cruel

    Drawing attention to myself isn’t my goal. BUT DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE MASS MURDER OF MILLIONS OF MEN AT THE BEHEST OF THE PHUCKING GYNOCRACY, BY AND FOR THE WHITE KNIGHT FUCKTARD “ALPHA” ELITES, is kinda what I’m after.

    I often have difficulty containing my enthusiasm for this noble goal. Many have issues with my delivery.

    Please forgive me in advance.

  72. ” . . . DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE MASS MURDER OF MILLIONS OF MEN AT THE BEHEST OF THE PHUCKING GYNOCRACY . . .”

  73. @DeNihilist

    Re: And The Beat Goes On (dating women out of your league)….
    Very funny and pretty typical article.

    How do young men “combat” this tactic?

    Mine is simple: No women is out of my reach (or league).

    This should be the thought process for any man until it’s second nature (down to your DNA or imprinted in your bones).

  74. re: I’ve observed individuals who talk about the fact that, try as they might, they can’t get their emotions under control enough to keep up the act for long periods of time, much less to simply “be”.

    Any thoughts on this?

    —————————————

    My belief is that whether anyone else can change or not is irrelevant. All that matters to me is whether I believe that I myself can change — or not.

    What do I believe about myself? Do I believe I can change or not? Do I believe that my life can be different from what it is right now or not?

  75. @Softek

    “What do I believe about myself? Do I believe I can change or not? Do I believe that my life can be different from what it is right now or not?”

    What are your answers to those questions?

  76. Bottom line: That the suffragettes said all that makes it clear that though male human moved on from thinking like animals, their female counterpart did not.

    Among the animals, the male that fights other males and wins is worthy of the female. That is what animals do. Lekking is male business. We are animals too? Watch the suffragette talk: “The male that does not believe that it should fight to the death for a female is not worthy of that female.”

    Sad.

    But on the other hand, I have seen girls fight for me. Physically. I don’t know where that fits in into all this.

  77. @Tim

    There’s only one man you can save, and you look at him every morning in the mirror. Everyone else has to save themselves. The best you can do for them is just be an example that eventually makes them come to you and say “Hey, I’m trying to get my shit together and you seem like you’d know how.”

    Until they have that moment on their own and decide to save themselves, there’s nothing you can do for them.

    Serve as an example, not a lecturer.

  78. Badass!

    This would be an excellent birthday present for myself. If I lived anywhere near Vegas.

  79. Fred Reed came up with an excellent line this week:

    “[Women] don’t understand men any more than a bear trap understands bears.

  80. @kfg

    “Asking a woman how to be a man is like asking a fish how to be a fisherman.”

    Forget who said that. Some manospherian.

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