Changing Your Programming

tilting_at_windmills

Changing Your Programming

I mentioned in the first book that I am not a motivational speaker.

I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be their own self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not a Rollo Tomassi success story, but their own success stories.

That said, let me also add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will and determination. God willing, they can be masters of those circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions in which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

These are the last words from The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine. I wrote something similar in the first book too, but I’m quoting them here because they are just as important now as they were when I was writing them then. I’m not now nor have I ever been interested in creating a cult of Rollo. I’m not interested in creating better men, I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

You’ll have to forgive me, I wrote this part about a year ago, but I think it’s still relevant now. In part 4 of Preventative Medicine a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it, but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave (in 2004) I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine a PUA guru attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate that 60 year old man’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what another man’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already suspect they know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game / Red Pill awareness is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I’m humbled by the men who email me and let me know how something I’ve written or shined a light on for them has saved them from suicide or some particular hell they would’ve endured longer in. For the most part though I get email and comments from men who tell me that they have built better lives for themselves because a Red Pill awareness made their situations more intelligible. I don’t sell a program or a prescription because each man’s circumstance is different, his acculturation is different, his ethnicity, society, upbringing, body composition and mental faculties are all different.

But we are all men. If the Red Pill is anything it’s a consortium of men who relate their individual experiences about women, about themselves and about their circumstances in what’s now become a feminine-primary social order. As I’ve stated in the past, I’m humbled and flattered to be considered one of the pillars of Red Pill awareness, but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.

I didn’t create the Red Pill, I just describe that awareness in terms I think are intelligible. I connect dots, but much of those dots are presented to me by a collective of men who’ve had common experiences. If those dots don’t follow, if those dots would be better connected in another way, I expect the Men who make up Red Pill awareness to offer their new ideas in an open exchange, in a marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes that marketplace gets weighed down with disingenuous critics, trolls and attention seekers, but this is the price, I believe, is necessary to distill and test the strength of those ideas. Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out.

Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

From Nursing Power:

A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

Last week Roosh came out against the various tribes of Game such as it is. While I understand his intent I must disagree with his methods. A couple of weeks ago I got into a bit of political discourse with regard to how the Feminine Imperative and how Hypergamy influences social dynamics. That post generated a lot of conversation, but from it I made this statement:

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

As most of my readers know I have a great deal of respect for Roosh and I still do. Nothng is going to change that. I think time will tell what direction his push for Neomasculine philosophy truly goes in. As far as what he’s describing in that “new” doctrine there’s not much I disagree with. I’ll take issue with his anti-evolution, anti-evo psych stance. I’ll take issue with his want for some as yet undefined moralism; and not because I don’t think morality or reverence to a higher power shouldn’t be part of it, but rather because it pollutes and distorts open discourse.

I’m not an atheist, anyone who’s read my commentary on Dalrock’s site knows this. That said I don’t think there is a substitute for critical inquiry, and when that is stifled, that’s when we lean over into dogma.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding.

I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense of moralism is also characteristic of the human experience, so there needs to be an accounting of this into interpretations of issues that are as complex as the ones debated in the manosphere.

Although I’m aware that observing a process will change it, it’s my practice  not to draw moralistic conclusions in any analysis I make because it adds bias where none is necessary. The problem is that what I (and others in the manosphere) propose is so raw it offends ego-invested sensibilities in people. Offense is really not my intent, but often enough it’s the expected result of dissecting cherished beliefs that seem to contribute to the well being of an individual.

There was a time I sat in a behavioral psychology class back in college. Behaviorism appealed to me because it was very nuts & bolts, not at all like the touchy-feely humanist schools of psychology. Behavior is the only reliable proof of motive. It was cause and effect, modify variables, and watch for behavior.

At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment. It was one thing to make these observation, but quite another to express them in the classroom. Many of the more intelligent minds I dealt with then would adamantly refuse to recognize the truths that operant conditioning played. After I thought about it I understood that they were likewise motivated to deny what I thought was right in front of their faces.

I had connected some uncomfortable dots; dots that had the potential of making a man less desirable for having connected them. This was really the beginning of many more uncomfortable connections I would make later.

Roosh has tried to make a case that the Red Pill community (subred) has now reached critical mass. He sees it as inbred; a community of complainers – and in some instances I can understand that. Debate can often sound like complaining. However, what I get from Roosh now is a need for answers, it seems to me he’s looking for a plan of action. He wants something prescriptive for himself and other men to follow on with. I get it.

He’s still included Red Pill truths as being an important part of his new doctrine and I’d respect him for that, if not for the wholesale disownment of the consortium that’s been the testbed for those truths for so long. As I stated above, I think Neomasculinity may have some merit, I don’t disagree with about 90% of the manifesto Roosh went to great effort to put together. What I disagree with is how he’s initiated all of this. He does no favors to himself with casual dismissals of principles he knows are deeper than he wants to give credit to – in fact most are principles he influenced personally.

As for my part, I’m going to keep doing what I do and that’s making men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes. I will likely have some strong disagreement with Roosh in the future, but as I’m fond of saying unplugging men from the matrix is dirty work. We’re both in the same family, and sometimes brothers will fight, and that’s OK.

I disagree with him that the Red Pill will cease to go on. It may be called something else, but it’s been around before he or I started writing about it. The “Red Pill”, like many other terms, is an abstraction; a place holder for an idea. Don’t like the Matrix movie references? Fine, but the truth is the truth and freely expressed ideas need words to describe them.

Maybe Neomasculinity is the prescription you need, but from what I can gather so far it’s a movement based on exclusion; not inclusion, not on a free exchange of ideas. Maybe the christianized Red Pill of Donalgraeme or Dalrock is a better prescription for you. Maybe you need the inspiration of a guy like Victor Pride and a better outlook on your physique.

Or maybe all you need is a truth and an awareness to help you lift yourself up. Yes, Red Pill awareness can be very depressing in the beginning, I’ve written several posts and book chapters dedicated to helping men come to terms with that, but ultimately it will be that awareness that becomes the catalyst for changing his life.

The Red Pill isn’t one size fits all, you have to tailor your own life with what it shows you.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Jeremy
7 years ago

@zip I have a strict evolutional perspective on morality I don’t think you’re recognizing that morality is a prescriptive human construct that is built from what evolution provides humans. Morality then is itself a derivative behavior set based on evolutionary tools. Human communication is an evolutionary tool. Human communication of falsehood is therefore a more fundamental behavior of humanity than a system of morality. Systems of morality can only fully function within fully self-aware human beings. Predictably, no such beings exist (I’m including myself in that statement). In reality, this argument is moot as “morality” is merely a flag people… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong
I’m embarrassed for them. Even the nerds in GamerGate frown upon doxxing and keep their members in check and ban for it. I mean what’s next, start sending Rollo death threats and posting pics of his family? Shit’s fucked up. Straight up Feminist/SJW mentality in action. If I were Roosh that shit would earn perma-bans for life at the minimum.

Jeremy
7 years ago

@YaReally, @Sun Wukong

I’m embarrassed for them.

Ah yes, the personality cult’s first target. You have to have some kind of “enemy” to have a cult following. Nothing brings men together like a common foe.

Don’t pity them too badly, we’re all vulnerable to surrendering our critical thought to a leader.

YaReally
7 years ago

@Rollo “it’d be the RVF to try to doxx me. Here I thought it’d be PUAHate or HUS.” That’s the crazy part. Like, how can a group of guys who are theoretically working on being more self-aware than the rest of society not objectively look at their behavior and go “uhhh isn’t this kind of retarded?” And all you did was point out the hypocrisy of ragging on other groups selling products focused on getting laid while having banners advertising products that get you laid on your site. That’s an “attack”? How fragile an ego do you have to have… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
7 years ago

@CMG “The point about morals was simply that when a person lacks morals, their behaviour is more accurately predicted by their animal instincts. A person of high moral calliber’s behaviour is not as accurately represented by evo-psych because they don’t act on animal instincts.” I absolutely disagree, it’s just not that simple. It will be the rarest human being that can keep his animal instincts on an indefinitely short leash. I know people, whose value system was intact and moral compass was never in doubt, that have been laid bare by their lizard brains taking the drivers seat in times… Read more »

lh
lh
7 years ago

@Seraph: That dialog was great. You might have some talent there.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Well, looking around to get some idea of what the world looks like from under the bus I can say one positive thing about it:

The company is pretty decent.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Chump No More Nobody, and I mean nobody, is immune. This. Married chick I shagged was “not the type” to do that shit at all. Even I was shocked when I realized not only that she had a thing for me, but that all it would take was me not saying no for her to bail on her marriage. I didn’t have to talk her in to it, I just had to stop objecting. Heavily religious chick with strong moral upbringing who still clings to her supposed religious morals when I hear from her. Given the right circumstances, morality will… Read more »

kobayashii1681
7 years ago

@zdroids – “I hear what you guy are saying but I disagree. Motherhood is key to the female experience.” The fuck?! This is a tangent….who said it wasn’t key? You’re comment following that about men and “the first 30 minutes” is even more convoluted, misandrist and extremely myopic….Jeezus! Your arguments are almost Kafkaesque…like there is is this underlying epic valley-like disconnect that is stopping you from even realising what you’re saying let alone the solipsism inherent in your observations… “You do realize that as a male you’re focused on the sex aspect of the story and after that everything goes… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@bodusafa Im glad you mentioned losing the concept of humanity. Thats what gets to me. Whats really left post-humanity? I just want to lay around like a lion now and stay warm. The humanity is still there, and it still drives me to try and think compassionately of other human beings first. The difference is that now, since I know that the humanity only conceals (but never completely overrides) the biologically driven impulses in the long run, I make sure that my situation is secure first and that I’m not giving them anything too important in the process. At the… Read more »

kobayashii1681
7 years ago

@Seraph – Claire & David dialogue….
comment image

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago
Reply to  kobayashii1681

@Sun wukong
Taking care of myself first is still difficult but being out in nature confirms the deep seated wonder in that.
That is a truth that is profoundly personal yet raw an real.

“I didn’t have to talk her in to it, I just had to stop objecting. Heavily religious chick with strong moral upbringing who still clings to her supposed religious morals when I hear from her.

Given the right circumstances, morality will fail for every single human being on the planet.”

You just describe my family growing up in a very eerie way.

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

@Charlotte, Greetings. “Glenn and some of the other commenters on this site: They are unusually bitter.” ‘Unusually’ would depend, wouldn’t it? What’s the metric for appropriate bitterness and ‘unusual’ bitterness. Now, don’t get me wrong…I am sure some men grab hold of their anger, nurse their grudges, and feed small indignations into they grow large. Some people do live off of their own misery. But… Many are struggling with actual real harm, pain and wrong done to them by women in particular and the system as it currently stands. Sometimes it’s specific, like a friend’s brother who hung himself in… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Seraph

@Seraph It takes two to have sex. One sex can’t shift all the responsibility onto the other. If you are seducing 20-year-olds (“game,” right?), yes, the 20-year-olds have consented to being sluts, but you are helping them to be sluts. Just saying. As for divorce, it’s a nasty business, and both parties typically end up as losers. Divorce these days is a phenomenon mostly of middle- and lower-middle-class people who can’t afford it. Upper-middle-class people and most rich people have super-stable marriages. So everyone gets hurt in a typical divorce. Contrary to what you MGTOW’s think, there aren’t any “cash… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago

@Chalotte Allen
“Single men are markedly less well-off and less healthy than married men, statistics show,”
Count me in

I love women but not in the way that realisticly describes them. Dialogue is a huge boon to help growth but as I learned with my direct ken. When it becomes one sided its a horrid experience.
Women don’t have it easy. Your observation is correct. But Men in society get blamed for that as well.
The sexual indiscretions of my sisters always fell on me when things didn’t go well.
Your input is wonderull to think about.

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

“@Seraph: That dialog was great. You might have some talent there.” Thank you. I think you are right. 😉 There was a time I would have dismissed the compliment, but that’s always been part of my problem. One of the epiphanies I had along the Red Pill Trail was that I had some real talent for writing that I had ignored, pushed away, discounted because, well, I lacked confidence, Inner Game, whatever. I have been working to correct that. Amazing what work it is to convince yourself you might actually have talent/skill/whatever, EVEN WHEN people tell you it. I have… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

My writing can be good, proof-reading not always:

“I would refer to Rollo’s posts about how unplugging is similar to the stages of mourning. Men who have been conditioned for years, decades, to cater and defer to women, thinking that it would make woman happy and the men attractive, have serious deprogramming to do.”

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Seraph

Again, Red Pill ain’t all about the wimmenz.

No doubt there are some women who would disagree with you.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“There was a time I would have dismissed the compliment . . .”

Been there. Done that. Got over it, so I’ll pile on; that was a well cut and finely polished little gem.

Lion
Lion
7 years ago

Roosh’s stature in the community is so large that there’s no need for him to defend himself, complain, bash, etc. He needs to stay focused on his continued contributions, and stop lamenting publicly. He takes things way too personally for a man of his position. I feel that his best contributions are still to come, but he needs to stay focused. Not everyone will agree with Roosh on everything, and he needs to accept that and continue his work.

YaReally
7 years ago

@Seraph That was a solid fuckin’ post. The breakdown of why guys like Glenn are pissed (and why they have every right to be, quite frankly). I’ve written about what happens when a man realizes he’s been lied to his whole life here: http://yareallyarchive.com/2012/9/#comment-heartiste-367897 – more in the link but here’s the relevant part: “This is the same illusion-shattering concept as when you realize your CEO job won’t get you the pussy society built the illusion in your head that you’d get, your best friend did something unforgivable to you because they’re human and not perfect like the illusion you… Read more »

Conservative Muslim Guy
Conservative Muslim Guy
7 years ago

@ Chump no more You bring up some good points, and I think it has to do with the way I stated it. See my correction post above and I think you’ll agree with me. I agree every human being acts on animal instincts, but due to a person’s belief system they may suppress some of those instincts. For example, people regularly suppress their instinct to kill other human beings, or for gluttony, lust etc. The more moral a person is, the more they are able to retain complete control of themselves and not give into anything that they believe… Read more »

Conservative Muslim Guy
Conservative Muslim Guy
7 years ago

@ Lion I agree. I think Roosh is still too sensitive. We saw that on Dr.Oz and in the response video to the TRP subreddit. A few dozen comments bother him? He needs to work on his inner game and hold frame at all times.

Jeremy
7 years ago

Do the comments really bother Roosh, or was he just trying to create the perception of a common foe to rally against?

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

@YaReally,

“@Seraph
That was a solid fuckin’ post.”</i"

Now my day is really complete. Thanks!

I feel like lighting up a frickin' stogie…

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago
Reply to  Seraph

@Seraph “Men are bitter because they are handed more and more responsibility in exchange for less and less power.” The awakening into the red pill. The real young version of myself agrees. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NOadx4ZICaQ @Yareally “It’s okay to be pissed. Ideally we’ll help you channel that into self-development and rewiring yourself into something amazing, but it’s okay to be angry for a while just like it’s okay to be sad when a loved one dies…as long as you eventually work on pulling out of it toward something more productive and positive for yourself.” Hell yeah That @Charlotte explains a huge difference… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@CMG <iThink about this: Is being skinned alive/burned to death/crucified etc. etc. the right conditions for a person to return to give up their belief system? Just ask the thousands of people who have been martyred in history! Martyrdom is the domain of fanatics. They are the exception, not the rule. The fact that this lady was CHEATING ON HER HUSBAND shows that she’s not really religious to begin with imo (and neither are you for covetting your neighbors wife :P). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman AWALT, regardless of religion. Nice try at shaming. I don’t give two fucks about the rule a book… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Glenn,

For the record, I was being polite, and did in no way intend on coming across as pompous or a smartass. I’d rather engage with words than create a problem. I simply don’t see how RP can be considered a “moral” activity when morality is a prescriptive system of beliefs/behaviors based on our observations of human biology and arbitrary ideal; whereas RP is simply stating observations about human nature.

ctt2
ctt2
7 years ago

I don’t normally follow Roosh, but I saw the Dr Oz clip and his reaction video when all that blew up. The first thought that came to mind watching him whine about ambush and safe spaces was that he sounded just like an SJW. The show itself wasn’t bad, he did a decent job of staying calm and on topic when everybody piled on but the reaction video was just pathetic.

Chump No More
Chump No More
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong “What I learned in being able to strip away the humanity from others was why it’s important to have compassion for myself first. Everyone else must come after me.” Sounds like a good description of enlightened self interest to me! This is also at the core of the female hate towards the red-pill… even if they could philosophically agree with red-pill tenants (they can’t), the loss of their entitled pedastalization just pisses them the fuck off. @Seraph “Many are struggling with actual real harm, pain and wrong done to them by women in particular and the system as… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Chump No More

@Chump No More Well, I’ve been married for 27 years, so I know one man pretty well. He seems to like me. And I don’t think men should “shut up.” Quite the contrary–they should speak up and speak out against the feminist hoo-hah that they accept with such passivity in every arena–because they’re secretly afraid of women. I do think that MGOW types ought to quite whining about their supposed victim status, just as feminists ought to quit whining about THEIR supposed victim status. “Perform to the will of the FI”? What on earth does that even mean? As for… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Charlotte Allen

…yes, the 20-year-olds have consented to being sluts, but you are helping them to be sluts. Just saying.

That’s funny, when men “consent” to be drafted for war, they are often blamed for engaging war despite the fact that women now make up >50% of the electorate. I’ve never seen a male soldier, “Yes, I killed, but the women who wanted my protection helped me become a killer.”

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@droid “The motherhood instinct shows up at a very early age and lasts a lifetime.” I’m having drinks after work with a mom of 4. She tells me she got a bit drunk on the weekend and busted her anal cherry with her husband. She did this as she is going to hook up with her online lover at a hotel next week and wanted to be experienced enough to show him the best possible time. The reason she is telling me is that she is putting that offer on the table. AF starts as soon as they are fuckable… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Charlotte “A divorced friend of my husband’s and mine shot himself to death a month or so ago. He was a sad case, with many problems, including ludicrous judgment in selecting his former wife, who was obviously marrying him just to get a green card and then dumped him right afterwards.” I hope that one day you understand how people like you, writing the things you write that promote the bullshit that lead men to places like this, contribute to men like your friend killing themselves. But I don’t hold out much hope. Sounds like your friend should’ve “just been… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

@YaReally Funny–everyone else in his family figured out within five minutes that she was taking him for a ride! My husband I used to laugh at the situation and make bets on how soon she’d dump him once she got that green card. Of course his death was sad. He was an unbelievably sad case. But it wasn’t because he believed in true love or idealized women and then had his beliefs shattered. It’s because his self-esteem was so low that he was willing to marry someone who wasn’t very nice to him even when they were together (she was,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Charlotte It takes two to have sex. One sex can’t shift all the responsibility onto the other. If you are seducing 20-year-olds (“game,” right?), yes, the 20-year-olds have consented to being sluts, but you are helping them to be sluts. Just saying. Men’s role is to lek, women’s job is to select. Bottom line: they were never “lured”. They made a choice. Just because society did a piss poor job of helping them make that selection doesn’t mean the big bad man lured her. You use this language to try and absolve females of all responsibility for their personal actions,… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

@Sun Wukong

I’m not part of the problem. I’m happily married (27 years) to a man I adore.

As I’ve said above, it takes two to have sex–and both partners have to take responsibility for what they do.

Conservative Muslim Guy
Conservative Muslim Guy
7 years ago

@ Sun Wukong Thanks for taking the time to respond. I think we’ll have a better discussion if we break the regular script of being jerks to each other because it’s the internet, and instead talk like we’re at a coffee shop. Personally I view you as a friend and a fellow red piller. On to the discussion, friend: Martrydom is the domain of fanatics I agree with you, and they are the exception, not the rule. I’m glad you agree there are exceptions. Now lets take the example to a smaller domain and you’ll see that all people exhibit… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“Upper-middle-class people and most rich people have super-stable marriages.”

If super-stable is defined as one or both spouses able to have a stable of lovers and/or vices without it ending the marriage

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  redlight

@redlight

I don’t where you get your information about upper-middle-class people. They might be upper-middle-class, but stables of lovers are way out of their financial league.

Conservative Muslim Guy
Conservative Muslim Guy
7 years ago

I should add the caveat that it’s not the case that if a religious person ever succumbs to animal instincts, they are not really religious. Everyone makes mistakes and there is an element of battle within a person; between the strength of their willpower to follow their beliefs and the pull of animal instincts. Not every liar is not “truly religious” rather religious people exist on a spectrum. The more a person commits sins like adultery the more you can infer the weakness of their belief/willpower, and likewise the less a person commits sins and does good deeds (especially in… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

I’m sure if you think about it, you will start to find near countless examples of little things human beings do that are contrary to their animal instincts. There are more cases where a human follows the programming than where they break from it. The rules are called the rules because they are a good general predictor of human behavior. You can point out little exceptions all day, but if you’re betting what a person would do barring extraordinary circumstances, bet on the rules every time. Choosing not to do so is what’s called “being naive”. In regards to the… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

@CMG …Yet there are examples which are outside these bounds. I’m sure if you think about it, you will start to find near countless examples of little things human beings do that are contrary to their animal instincts. Who is to say it is contrary to animal instincts? You and me? Or the individual whose perception of reality we cannot share? Instincts are governed by limited perception and tainted beliefs on the world around us that we all have, but cannot directly share with one another (because language is an imperfect medium to convey human perception). The conclusion that humans… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Charlotte

I’m not part of the problem.

I just pointed out how you are. Blithe assertions to the contrary do nothing to disprove my point.

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

@Sun Wukong:

You did? I missed that one.

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

@Rollo Tomassi

I’ll read those when I get a chance. Now, I’m going to a party to drink some wine and take some blue pills.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Charlotte

I rest my case.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . stables of lovers are way out of their financial league.”

I don’t eat candy, so I’m a bit out of the loop these days, but I find it hard to believe that the cost of Skittles is that high.

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Charlotte Allen

As I’ve said above, it takes two to have sex–and both partners have to take responsibility for what they do.

That’s extremely easy for someone to say when most of their actions in the sexual marketplace are covert by design.

http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/

It is a bit like the NSA pointing a finger at facebook and accusing them of privacy invasion. One is overt, the other is covert, but the covert side is accusing the overt side of not owning their responsibility in an activity. Hilariously solipsistic.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago
redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@kfg

“I don’t eat candy, so I’m a bit out of the loop these days, but I find it hard to believe that the cost of Skittles is that high.”

lol

you forgot the costs of condoms, that’s why she doesn’t think the upper middle class has lovers

YaReally
7 years ago

@Charlotte “Funny–everyone else in his family figured out within five minutes that she was taking him for a ride! My husband I used to laugh at the situation and make bets on how soon she’d dump him once she got that green card.” Hilarious lolol esp since he killed himself, what an idiot lol but hey, he’s just a man, who cares. When a hammer is broken you toss it out, who cares why it’s broken it’s of no use anymore! “It’s because his self-esteem was so low” And why do you think that is? Or do you even care?… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

@YaReally The guy’s death was very sad. But he did make a horrible mess of his life.He didn’t have to do that. I don’t know why he started drinking like a fish at a very young age–or why he torpedoed his career. I didn’t know him well enough. In fact, neither my husband or I had even laid eyes on him for years. I only know what he did. His wife had left him a good ten years before his suicide–so he had a chance to find someone better. But he didn’t. He just continued on his downward trajectory. There… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@YaReally

Good tools belong in the tool chest.

Bad tools belong in the garbage.

It’s not a tool’s place to question the natural order of their lives.

YaReally
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong
“It’s not a tool’s place to question the natural order of their lives.”

Jeeze you sound like one of those whiny MRA/MGTOW/TRP losers. What do you think tools have feelings or something?? Why can’t you guys just quit bitching like feminists should. Robin Williams killing himself was basically the same as getting outraged about a GoT rape scene. Just STFU or my NAWALT friends and I won’t think you’re a REAL man.

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong

Alpha tools belong between the legs, ready to be engaged on a whim.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago
Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Jeremy

HIYOOOOOO!

Jeremy
7 years ago

It’s amazing how Charlotte can with one side of her mouth call MGTOW men whiners, and then with the other side of her mouth treat a man’s suicide from being treated badly by women as if it’s some form of humor… Except, those are probably the same side of her mouth, and I think her husband probably uses that mouth for hummers.

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy

When all else fails, get gross.

lh
lh
7 years ago

@Seraph: “Again, Red Pill ain’t all about the wimmenz.”

Of course. But still: If you ever want to go to that kitchen, pulling off a “David” there would probably be really great game.

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

@Charlotte, Okay, here we go… “It takes two to have sex. One sex can’t shift all the responsibility onto the other.” Unless you are attending any number of universities today. Or deciding to terminate a baby. Or deciding to keep it and obligate someone else to help pay for it for 18 years even when they had no say on whether you kept it or killed it. And you miss the point. Yes, both sides decide whether to engage in sex. The point is, is EITHER one responsible for the OTHER’S choice? You get the difference? “If you are seducing… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Seraph

@Seraph

I never said men are beasts or predators. I merely maintain that both sexes are responsible for the current epidemic of sexual misbehavior.

Jeremy
7 years ago

I’m glad other people have the patience that I don’t, @Seraph & YaReally. The total lack of empathy might be excusable if women like Charlotte posted here with genuine curiosity. They never do though, they come to message boards like this as if everyone must listen to their sermon about how men “should be”.

Johnycomelately
7 years ago

Let me get this straight, non feminist woman comes to Rollo’s den and spouts: Men robbed of their families but still paying are bitter. It’s mens fault for choosing wrong women. MGTOW are whiners. Men are coercively creating sluts. Divorce is bad for women. Single men are suboptimal. Suicided man should have had intuitive powers to discern a scheming woman. Did I miss anything? I find it interesting that Roosh’s ‘coming out’ coincides with doxing and Rollo being flooded with new commenters engaging in misdirection, happenstance? You’re a target now Rollo, be wary. I hope your employment can survive being… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

You missed something… MGTOW aren’t just whiners, they’re self-declared-perpetual-victim whiners.

lh
lh
7 years ago

Charlotte: “As I’ve said above, it takes two to have sex–and both partners have to take responsibility for what they do.” The important difference is for whom do you take responsibility? Both for the girl? Both for the man? Everyone for himself? It’s quite fun watching female solipsism in action. But let me tell you something: These are Red Pill men. They don’t care for what you say, they just look at what it means. And because you can’t really understand yourself like that, it’s fun watching you tumble blindly between the seeing. And even more funny: You can’t even… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  lh

@ih

What’s this all about? I don’t care what anyone here says or thinks. Why should I?

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . what some other commenter here wrote, men find “peace and quiet” living without women?” ” I missed this one. The first thing that pops into my head when someone says “table saw,” “Marshall stack,” or even “Penny Whistle” is not quiet. It is true that more often than not I find my peace in a little corner with a little book (and perhaps some cognac and a cigar to go with it), but sometimes contentment, and even joy, comes from firing that shit up and making some noise. ” . . .they come to message boards… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Jeremy “I’m glad other people have the patience that I don’t, @Seraph & YaReally. The total lack of empathy might be excusable if women like Charlotte posted here with genuine curiosity. They never do though, they come to message boards like this as if everyone must listen to their sermon about how men “should be”.” The unfortunate part is that the reason I have patience for this is because she’s not the first disturbingly “…did you really just say that??” callous chick I’ve run into, online or offline, when it comes to male disposability. I can pretty much guarantee that… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

@YaReally The unfortunate part is that the reason I have patience for this is because she’s not the first disturbingly “…did you really just say that??” callous chick I’ve run into, online or offline, when it comes to male disposability. I can pretty much guarantee that she would be able to say all of this stuff with a smile out loud to her girlfriends over a glass of wine because she fundamentally doesn’t understand why what she’s saying turns our stomachs. Her girlfriends (the NAWALTs, remember) would lol right along with her as they pour another glass of wine and… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

@Charlotte, YaReally already did a great job on the below, but I have my two cents… “Funny” Hysterical! Suicide stories are usually entertaining. –everyone else in his family figured out within five minutes that she was taking him for a ride! Wait, why didn’t you assume HE was seducing the poor young thing? That he wasn’t ‘luring’ the young girl to his bed like a cad? Why, in this case, did you automatically assume SHE had a nefarious agenda, but in the cases of 20 year old girls, you assume they are poor innocents being preyed upon by lustful men?… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Seraph

@Seraph

It’s hard to anticipate a suicide 17 years before the suicide. He was an adult, and his family tried to warn him, I think. I didn’t know him well enough to stick my nose into his business–and it’s always amusing to watch a gold-digger in action.

YaReally
7 years ago

@kfg “Well they are, after all, just men. They can’t be expected to correctly perceive their own lived experience.” We all know that when it comes to women’s issues, men should be quiet and listen because they couldn’t know anything about what it’s like to be a woman. And when it comes to men’s issues, men should be quiet and listen because women know what’s best for men. If neomasculinity doesn’t approve of gay dudes like Milo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05nj4Cfau8s …then I don’t see how they’re ever going to take down feminism ’cause he just bitch-slapped it. lol The full version of… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

“I’m glad other people have the patience that I don’t, @Seraph & YaReally. The total lack of empathy might be excusable if women like Charlotte posted here with genuine curiosity.” “It’s quite fun watching female solipsism in action.” Bingo! My patience comes from having fun with it, because I find myself seeing the patterns more easily now. It’s like I HAVE learned something! Yeah for me! But more importantly, it DOES illustrate this stuff for me, you, everybody. You can read about solipsism, but it really takes ‘seeing it in action’ to get. I got a little annoyed with Charlotte… Read more »

lh
lh
7 years ago

YaReally: re: Gays: I agree it’s a mistake excluding gays. I’ve heard from several now it has a lot do with avoiding women. Many gays understand the nature of women pretty well. Just their consequences are different.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

Excluding gay guys from a men’s movement is stupid for one really big reason: they know what it feels to be an average male (save for the part where they dig dudes instead of chicks) AND they’re perceived as having no dog in the fight for the most part. It means there’s somebody who can actually perceive the male experience and be heard when he speaks about it since there’s not the immediate assumption of “misogynist who only sees women as objects”.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“Men robbed of their families but still paying are bitter.
It’s mens fault for choosing wrong women.
MGTOW are whiners.
Men are coercively creating sluts.
Divorce is bad for women.
Single men are suboptimal.
Suicided man should have had intuitive powers to discern a scheming woman.”

since this isn’t AF, or BB, it must be motherhood

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Sun

Having never been gay it is probably overstepping my experience to speak on them. However, stats kind of prove that very very few, if any, gay men know what it is like to be an incel. Frequent fornication is the rule there, not the exception. There are significant elements of AFC that gay men simply do not experience. Note that I’m not saying that exclusion is called for.

Jeremy
7 years ago

@Charlotte

How astute for you to recognize that reasoned arguments have failed on you. Perhaps there’s hope.

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy

Believe me, there is no hope.

kobayashii1681
7 years ago

Was searching for some new docs to watch, came across this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hnoy_hK6eM

What to guys think of this vis-a-vis F.I, AWALT, etc…

Jeremy
7 years ago

Jesus, listen to yourself Charlotte. “He just continued on his downward trajectory. There was nothing anyone could do, really. And now there’s nothing to do but pray for his soul.” I can’t remember the last time I heard a man say something similar about a woman on the same path, and women are supposed to be the more empathetic sex. I’ve simply never heard a man say: “Well, she just kept slutting it up and working as a stripper, there was nothing anyone could do for her, it wasn’t right to send her money, or pay for her gas, or… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

@Jeremy

Again, we barely knew the guy, although we knew–and still know–his family pretty well, and we stay in touch. He got married in something like 1995 (maybe 1996), and the marriage was over by 1998. The suicide: 2015. We last saw him–when? 2004 maybe? He’d been drinking heavily since college (graduated sometime in the early 1990s), We mostly just heard about his downward spiral: the lost jobs, etc. I don’t understand exactly what I was expected to do about a situation like this. The family lives in Florida; my husband and I live in DC.

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

@Charlotte, “I never said men are beasts or predators. I merely maintain that both sexes are responsible for the current epidemic of sexual misbehavior.” Have you said exactly: “Mean are beasts or predators” No. Not in this thread at least. But then, women don’t often do direct communication. You: c) boasting about all the 20-year-olds you lured into your bed… If you are seducing 20-year-olds Why do you assume it is men who are doing the ‘luring’? Why is it the men always doing the seducing? And why the constant referral to 20 year old women, as if they are… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  Seraph

@Seraph

You’ve become incoherent–time for some snooze, no?

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

“It’s hard to anticipate a suicide 17 years before the suicide. He was an adult, and his family tried to warn him, I think. I didn’t know him well enough to stick my nose into his business–and it’s always amusing to watch a gold-digger in action.” First, I have to point out as YaReally did so well, that your attitude toward his destruction seemed callous, especially compared to how a woman’s similar fate would be construed and related. And again, I have to ask… What makes you so quick to label her behavior as selfish, or predatory or conniving, or… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . it’s always amusing to watch a gold-digger in action.”

For much the same reason that men enjoy watching athletes in action. It’s a type of professional respect. A green card and the guy offed himself. That’s like returning a kick off 80 yards for the touchdown and kicking for the extra point.

I don’t wonder you admire such a play. I’m sure it takes you back to your school days.

zdr01dz
7 years ago

@ Novaseeker You can use that knowledge to better predict female behavior. Except that it doesn’t, at least not in ways that aren’t already subsumed by the red pill ideas. AF/BB predicts opportunism and pronounced AF. That’s not what we see. In most cases this hypothesis is a poor predictor of behavior. If the AF/BB female sexual strategy was presented to the anthropology community this is how it would go down. Anth Community: AF… interesting concept, we see that behavior. Anth Community: BB makes sense, we see that too. It sounds like you’re onto something. Anth Community: What about Motherhood?… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Charlotte Listen to yourself: “The guy’s death was very sad. But he did make a horrible mess of his life.He didn’t have to do that. I don’t know why he started drinking like a fish at a very young age–or why he torpedoed his career. I didn’t know him well enough. In fact, neither my husband or I had even laid eyes on him for years. I only know what he did. His wife had left him a good ten years before his suicide–so he had a chance to find someone better. But he didn’t. He just continued on his… Read more »

Charlotte Allen
7 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

@YaReally I want to say that you’re inherently not a good person, but sadly you’re just sort of the byproduct of our society. Men are viewed as so inherently worthless and to blame for everything that you honestly can’t see why any of the stuff you’re saying is fucked up and disturbing. It doesn’t make sense to you that a man would have reasons for doing things and those reasons aren’t important to you…and that’s scary, because you probably consider yourself a good person and I know you won’t stop spouting your “wisdom” or ever consider why your perspective is… Read more »

ctt2
ctt2
7 years ago

@zdr01dz

Of these 3 instincts AF is by far the weakest. If it wasn’t we wouldn’t see phenomenon like this.
Ashley Madison: Women have NO ability to buy credits. The site is 100 percent free for us. The male/female ratio is greatly skewed.

What does a dating site have to do with AF?

zdr01dz
7 years ago

BTW, nobody should be getting reactionary and butthurt about this.

I’m here because Rollo’s writing is excellent and he makes me think. I just happen to have a different idea and I’m pushing it to see if I’m wrong. So far my confidence has grown.

I like all of you guys and yes I even read and enjoy your hate filled comments KFG. You sick, twisted soul. I pray for you.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Anth Community: What about Motherhood?”

Physicist Married to an Anthropologist Community: And then a miracle occurs.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

” . . . KFG . . .”

And for what it’s worth, you get a Brownie Point for using the proper form of direct address.

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
7 years ago

“my husband and I live in DC.” – Charlotte

It all makes sense now.

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

@relentlessdroid

“AF = genes
BB = resources
Motherhood = care”

the problem with this is you are missing the verb. You could put:

AF = get genes
BB = get resources
Motherhood = get care

notice a problem?

try this:

AF = get genes
BB = get resources
Motherhood = get feelings
Shoes = get feelings
Talk = get feelings
Watch Oprah = get feelings
Post on trm = get feelings

now don’t get all reactionary and butthurt that you are wrong. Just think about it.

furiousferrett
7 years ago

“Honestly I don’t see how anyone is surprised by Charlotte’s callous disregard for the suicide of this man. It’s a textbook example of both the solipsism of the War Brides dynamic and a confirmation of everything I wrote in Empathy.” I think it’s simply that people in general don’t have an sympathy for low value individuals. If some fattie warpig offed herself I certainly wouldn’t care and I would say most people won’t either. The guy in the example she used was obviously an objective loser. I would guess he knew deep down that this girl was just using him… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

@furiousferret

The guy in the example she used was obviously an objective loser.

Objective losers exist? Pray tell what is their standard of measurement? Mega-Chernobyls?

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

“Honestly I don’t see how anyone is surprised by Charlotte’s callous disregard for the suicide of this man. It’s a textbook example of both the solipsism of the War Brides dynamic and a confirmation of everything I wrote in Empathy.” Well, it’s like this… It is one thing to have someone describe an auto accident. It’s completely different to see it play out before your eyes. It’s like being told there is a Matrix… And being able to actually see the code pulsing around you.. That’s why I don’t mind seeing it here, as irksome at it can also be.… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

I’m not seeing where you guys are seeing the “well intentioned” portion of these little visits from FI queens. Enlighten me on how you’re recognizing this.

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
7 years ago

“Objective losers exist? Pray tell what is their standard of measurement?” Really just most guys. Most men are the losers in the game of life. That’s how it is. Few men are the winners and most men serve them and the society that they run. What we have currently is our current sexual social situation is Honesty. Well beneath all the media PC bullshit of course. Top men along with young women are biological winners and everybody else deludes themselves but can’t complete to delusion to the most important part which is the monkey brain. The monkey brain knows the… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

@Furiousferret, “The guy in the example she used was obviously an objective loser. I would guess he knew deep down that this girl was just using him and didn’t care because it was his only shot for decent quality ass.” Charlotte also made the reference about a anticipating the suicide 17 years later: “It’s hard to anticipate a suicide 17 years before the suicide. He was an adult, and his family tried to warn him, I think. I didn’t know him well enough to stick my nose into his business–and it’s always amusing to watch a gold-digger in action.” I… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Jeremy: “Enlighten me on how you’re recognizing this.”

Maybe it’s buried in here somewhere: “I don’t care what anyone here says or thinks. Why should I?”

It contains the word “care,” perhaps it’s an expression of (chorus of angels with fanfare) Motherhood.

YaReally
7 years ago

“Honestly I don’t see how anyone is surprised by Charlotte’s callous disregard for the suicide of this man. It’s a textbook example of both the solipsism of the War Brides dynamic and a confirmation of everything I wrote in Empathy.” The fucked part to me is when I extrapolate it. This is some chick who’s been told all her life that her opinion trumps because she has a pussy. So she barges in here doing her thing. And that’s some crazy bitch we can ultimately ignore. But how many more of her are out there? She doesn’t consider herself a… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

“I’m not seeing where you guys are seeing the “well intentioned” portion of these little visits from FI queens. Enlighten me on how you’re recognizing this.” What I mean is the vibe she puts off is different than the obviously hostile feminist trolls that have wandered in here of late. I don’t sense TROLL from her, in other words; someone who is simply here to stir shit or is faking some measure of sympatico in order to slip the shiv in. That’s what I mean by well-intentioned. Lone survivor, Droidz, a few other…MYG… I get the vibe they are full… Read more »

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
7 years ago

“I wasn’t clear what the the 17 year span related to; later than what? Was that 17 years from his divorce from the ‘gold-digger’? If so, is that really causation? Or was he married to the hottie for a long while? My point is, is her appraisal of the situation accurate? Did he blow his brains out over this woman, or was it unrelated? ” She said she married him and then quickly divorced him. She just played a beta sucker is all. Nothing more nothing less. It happens all the time. What other people are saying to her is… Read more »

YaReally
7 years ago

@Seraph
“Charlotte seems to actually believe what she says.”

Oh she’s legit. That’s the scary part. It would be less depressing if it WAS just a troll.

She’s ignorant and proud of it. None of this will actually change her views, but as I always say it’s not about that, it’s about reaching the lurkers and men who read this in the future and have encountered people like her…so they can see we understand what they’re up against and they might reach out to the community for help before they’re just another suicide anecdote to lolz over.

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

She doesn’t consider herself a psychopath, in fact she considers herself a great catch and she considers us the ones with the problem because don’t we know when a woman tells us how things are we should all just listen.

To elaborate, Charlotte wants to help, THINKS she’s helping (but she’s not), whereas others I get the sense they are on a mission to fuck you us up.

Will both fuck you up if you listen to them?

Yes.

But I said ‘well-intentioned’ and we all know what the road to Hell is paved with.

YaReally
7 years ago

@FuriousFerrett “What other people are saying to her is that this guy is a product of shitty system. At the end of the day it’s his fault. ” “It’s people like Rollo that are trying to educate these exact men so at least they have some correct schooling before they make dumb mistakes.” That’s why I say WHY is the hammer broken. She gives no fucks because all that matters to her is that it’s broken. Of course him hitting the bottle is technically his fault, he’s the one lifting it up and putting it to his mouth…but WHY is… Read more »

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
7 years ago

“To elaborate, Charlotte wants to help, THINKS she’s helping (but she’s not), whereas others I get the sense they are on a mission to fuck you us up.

Will both fuck you up if you listen to them?

Yes.

But I said ‘well-intentioned’ and we all know what the road to Hell is paved with.

All SJWs are well intentioned, just as much as Catholic Inquisitors in Reformation Spain. They are ‘saving our souls’ by destroying our lives. SJW worship Marx instead of a supernatural deity. Main difference really.

Seraph
Seraph
7 years ago

Oh she’s legit. That’s the scary part. That’s why I think she’s particularly instructive. Some SJW or the like comes in here, they have an agenda, and the agenda is pure pushback against Red Pill, and they are often mimicking bullshit that they heard or read to stem the Red Tide. I think that offers only limited insight into the FI mindset because it’s cardboard. Charlotte is a the real deal, so you are getting to see the process, unfiltered, you know what I mean? I don’t know, maybe it’s just striking to me because I am more behind the… Read more »

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
7 years ago

“That’s why I say WHY is the hammer broken. She gives no fucks because all that matters to her is that it’s broken.” The old guard like her simply want to defend an terrible ideological system because of their experiences growing up steeped in narcissistic comfort. They don’t realize that their mentality and worldview was akin to a leech sucking everything that their forebearers laid out for them. SJW view on gender relations is simply wrong, dumb and akin to Marixst Pol Pol, Chairman Mao ‘Pie in the Sky’ beliefs. It damages girls just as much as guys. If young… Read more »

Jeremy
7 years ago

I have some thoughts that’ll take us off-course. Recently I have been taking more notice when I see a man operating outside his own frame. The first places I started noticing this were in television shows. For instance, I started watching “Mad Men” very late, I caught up at about the start of this past season and when I got to the second half of this last season I honestly couldn’t watch anymore because the main character (Draper) was clearly no longer operating within his own frame as he was at the beginning of the series. The show had been… Read more »

Will
7 years ago

@yareally I’m following you man. with your (2nd page) post about LTR’s turning into the girl getting bored, whereas being more mysterious is actually more healthy etc. I agree with you. I’m kinda confused though. There’s a type of LTR that doesn’t have to be completely “blue pill” where you think you’re with this unicorn and you do everything to almost “impress” her and the house with the kids and white picket fence is in the future etc. THAT’s the kind of relationship that inevitably fucks you over. But what you’re saying is you can have an LTR and be… Read more »

Will
7 years ago

charlotte needs to get a life.

if this is in fact a chick she is meaningless. aka troll

insanitybytes22
7 years ago

“The total lack of empathy might be excusable if women like Charlotte posted here with genuine curiosity. They never do though, they come to message boards like this as if everyone must listen to their sermon about how men “should be”.”

No, Jeremy. We don’t come here to tell men how they “should be.” We come here because we know how amazing and awesome men truly are and we can’t figure out why so many of you don’t realize that.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“charlotte needs to get a life.”

She thinks she has one. She has a doctorate, and I’m not making this up, in byzantine thought.

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