Changing Your Programming

tilting_at_windmills

Changing Your Programming

I mentioned in the first book that I am not a motivational speaker.

I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be their own self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not a Rollo Tomassi success story, but their own success stories.

That said, let me also add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will and determination. God willing, they can be masters of those circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions in which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

These are the last words from The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine. I wrote something similar in the first book too, but I’m quoting them here because they are just as important now as they were when I was writing them then. I’m not now nor have I ever been interested in creating a cult of Rollo. I’m not interested in creating better men, I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

You’ll have to forgive me, I wrote this part about a year ago, but I think it’s still relevant now. In part 4 of Preventative Medicine a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it, but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave (in 2004) I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine a PUA guru attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate that 60 year old man’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what another man’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already suspect they know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game / Red Pill awareness is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I’m humbled by the men who email me and let me know how something I’ve written or shined a light on for them has saved them from suicide or some particular hell they would’ve endured longer in. For the most part though I get email and comments from men who tell me that they have built better lives for themselves because a Red Pill awareness made their situations more intelligible. I don’t sell a program or a prescription because each man’s circumstance is different, his acculturation is different, his ethnicity, society, upbringing, body composition and mental faculties are all different.

But we are all men. If the Red Pill is anything it’s a consortium of men who relate their individual experiences about women, about themselves and about their circumstances in what’s now become a feminine-primary social order. As I’ve stated in the past, I’m humbled and flattered to be considered one of the pillars of Red Pill awareness, but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.

I didn’t create the Red Pill, I just describe that awareness in terms I think are intelligible. I connect dots, but much of those dots are presented to me by a collective of men who’ve had common experiences. If those dots don’t follow, if those dots would be better connected in another way, I expect the Men who make up Red Pill awareness to offer their new ideas in an open exchange, in a marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes that marketplace gets weighed down with disingenuous critics, trolls and attention seekers, but this is the price, I believe, is necessary to distill and test the strength of those ideas. Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out.

Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

From Nursing Power:

A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

Last week Roosh came out against the various tribes of Game such as it is. While I understand his intent I must disagree with his methods. A couple of weeks ago I got into a bit of political discourse with regard to how the Feminine Imperative and how Hypergamy influences social dynamics. That post generated a lot of conversation, but from it I made this statement:

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

As most of my readers know I have a great deal of respect for Roosh and I still do. Nothng is going to change that. I think time will tell what direction his push for Neomasculine philosophy truly goes in. As far as what he’s describing in that “new” doctrine there’s not much I disagree with. I’ll take issue with his anti-evolution, anti-evo psych stance. I’ll take issue with his want for some as yet undefined moralism; and not because I don’t think morality or reverence to a higher power shouldn’t be part of it, but rather because it pollutes and distorts open discourse.

I’m not an atheist, anyone who’s read my commentary on Dalrock’s site knows this. That said I don’t think there is a substitute for critical inquiry, and when that is stifled, that’s when we lean over into dogma.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding.

I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense of moralism is also characteristic of the human experience, so there needs to be an accounting of this into interpretations of issues that are as complex as the ones debated in the manosphere.

Although I’m aware that observing a process will change it, it’s my practice  not to draw moralistic conclusions in any analysis I make because it adds bias where none is necessary. The problem is that what I (and others in the manosphere) propose is so raw it offends ego-invested sensibilities in people. Offense is really not my intent, but often enough it’s the expected result of dissecting cherished beliefs that seem to contribute to the well being of an individual.

There was a time I sat in a behavioral psychology class back in college. Behaviorism appealed to me because it was very nuts & bolts, not at all like the touchy-feely humanist schools of psychology. Behavior is the only reliable proof of motive. It was cause and effect, modify variables, and watch for behavior.

At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment. It was one thing to make these observation, but quite another to express them in the classroom. Many of the more intelligent minds I dealt with then would adamantly refuse to recognize the truths that operant conditioning played. After I thought about it I understood that they were likewise motivated to deny what I thought was right in front of their faces.

I had connected some uncomfortable dots; dots that had the potential of making a man less desirable for having connected them. This was really the beginning of many more uncomfortable connections I would make later.

Roosh has tried to make a case that the Red Pill community (subred) has now reached critical mass. He sees it as inbred; a community of complainers – and in some instances I can understand that. Debate can often sound like complaining. However, what I get from Roosh now is a need for answers, it seems to me he’s looking for a plan of action. He wants something prescriptive for himself and other men to follow on with. I get it.

He’s still included Red Pill truths as being an important part of his new doctrine and I’d respect him for that, if not for the wholesale disownment of the consortium that’s been the testbed for those truths for so long. As I stated above, I think Neomasculinity may have some merit, I don’t disagree with about 90% of the manifesto Roosh went to great effort to put together. What I disagree with is how he’s initiated all of this. He does no favors to himself with casual dismissals of principles he knows are deeper than he wants to give credit to – in fact most are principles he influenced personally.

As for my part, I’m going to keep doing what I do and that’s making men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes. I will likely have some strong disagreement with Roosh in the future, but as I’m fond of saying unplugging men from the matrix is dirty work. We’re both in the same family, and sometimes brothers will fight, and that’s OK.

I disagree with him that the Red Pill will cease to go on. It may be called something else, but it’s been around before he or I started writing about it. The “Red Pill”, like many other terms, is an abstraction; a place holder for an idea. Don’t like the Matrix movie references? Fine, but the truth is the truth and freely expressed ideas need words to describe them.

Maybe Neomasculinity is the prescription you need, but from what I can gather so far it’s a movement based on exclusion; not inclusion, not on a free exchange of ideas. Maybe the christianized Red Pill of Donalgraeme or Dalrock is a better prescription for you. Maybe you need the inspiration of a guy like Victor Pride and a better outlook on your physique.

Or maybe all you need is a truth and an awareness to help you lift yourself up. Yes, Red Pill awareness can be very depressing in the beginning, I’ve written several posts and book chapters dedicated to helping men come to terms with that, but ultimately it will be that awareness that becomes the catalyst for changing his life.

The Red Pill isn’t one size fits all, you have to tailor your own life with what it shows you.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,375 comments on “Changing Your Programming

  1. @ Rollo Tomassi
    Dr Martie Hasselton would strongly disagree with your completely baseless and unsubstantiated assertions:

    Why don’t you interview Dr Hasselton about her work? Post the interview and then invite her to answer questions in chat. Most researchers would love the exposure and we’d love to ask her questions.

    In the meantime if she doesn’t believe that motherhood is part of the female sexual strategy post the info. I love to read opposing opinions.

    Please educate yourself before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

    You are burning out fast.

  2. To me the crazy thing is mothers that don’t want/love children. Its like being part of a suicide cult. I remember talking about abortion with a 16 year old Dominican girl, and she just couldn’t understand a mother not loving and wanting her baby, it was just unbelievable to her that someone could think that way(she wasn’t a religious).

  3. @ Rollo Tomassi

    Over 50 studies have examined changes across the cycle in women’s attraction to these male features.

    Your move Sky King.

    Wait a minute I just realized that might have been to me. It’s easy to believe that Estrus in human females is a real phenomenon. Certainly.

    But if Estrus was a significant driver of female behavior we wouldn’t need researchers to tell us it exists. Women would have secret Tinder accounts that they would use 1 week each month. Your friend would call and say, “watch out bro my girlfriend just finished Estrus and she cheated 3 times this month.” And you wouldn’t be surprised because you’d hear it all the time. Estrus might be real but it’s not a particularly strong force.

    1. You’re just trolling now. Go back to the RVF and tell Roosh we’re all awaiting his revelations about evo-psych.

      And the next time he sock puppets a doxx on me to do a better job. I get it now.

  4. @ charlotte allen

    The awakening of the male conscious is not something in which you can build a bridge to and connect with the ‘Feminine Imperative’.

    The overt chosen ignorance or the minimizing of the enormous effects that 60 years of unchained female hypergamy and what it has done to Western civilization is not something that any rational knowing individual would or should compromise.

    Remember your article? “Welcome to the New Paleolithic, where tens of thousands of years of human mating practices have swirled into oblivion like shampoo down the shower drain – and the women love every minute of it. ”

    It would be my recommendation for you to read Rollo’s essays or perhaps Roissy’s synopsis of F Roger Devlin’s Sexual Utopia in Power, or Devlin’s writings directly.

    The reasons are myriad and diverse as to why so many of us are hearing the call.

    regards

    1. @70’sAntiHero

      Remember your article? “Welcome to the New Paleolithic, where tens of thousands of years of human mating practices have swirled into oblivion like shampoo down the shower drain – and the women love every minute of it. ”

      It would be my recommendation for you to read Rollo’s essays or perhaps Roissy’s synopsis of F Roger Devlin’s Sexual Utopia in Power, or Devlin’s writings directly.

      If you read that article carefully, you’ll see that I’ve read all of that. I even interviewed Devlin in person. I’m quite aware that the disappearance of social constraints on female sexuality have led to the primitive sexual scene we have now, with its all-too-predictable winners and losers. It’s horrible. One of the unfortunate consequences is the attitude of many commenters on this site. There seems to be no middle ground between the cavilling obeisance of the “male feminists” who comprise nearly all of the intellectual elite and the bitterness and sheer nastiness toward women expressed here.

  5. Guys, like @Rollo, I don’t see what the big deal is about… I said as much about to @Seraph a few dozen comments above.

    @Charlotte is merely a text book example of of female behavior and the social conditioning that we discuss day in and day out. She should be neither praised nor derided. She’s neither inherently good or bad… She’s a woman,and as such, she neither has the biological wiring or the social incentive to understand the male experience or have significant empathy for men, in general. Can she love or hold particular men high in esteem? Of course! But, men in general? Not a snowball’s chance in hell.

    Believe me, I understand the frustration, I was there once. But getting angry with her and her confirmations of female hypergamous behavior is like getting angry with a female mountain lion because you but your house in her woods and it dragged your dog off for lunch.

  6. Basically Christiano Ronaldo can’t even do what your saying….unless you claim he didn’t play his cards right……

    Also, the problem is getting those girls that chase you. Usually girls don’t just relentlessly chase like that…..you gotta pursue at some point or pursue a little. that’s also what confuses me. i don’t know anyone who doesn;t do that or doesn’t have to do that

  7. @Will
    “Are you saying that you can make it so that the girl your with is okay with you hooking up with other girls as long as your emotionally all-in with your main girl? or are you saying that you just spin plates and don’t necessarily hook up with the other girls? or is it you hook up with other girls and secretly have other girls on the side without her knowing….”

    Whatever you want, you can have, if you learn to hold your frame, understand women’s psychology, know EXACTLY what you want, and screen properly (not just “playing the numbers game” and hoping to stumble onto a chick who’s just down for it, but knowing how to present and frame things and ease a girl into it and dismantle her doubts/questions about it to show her why it’s nothing she should worry about and in some ways is beneficial to her…a lot of girls are actually cool with it but don’t realize it because they’re running on social conditioning that says “love = monogamy” and simply need to be shown that the boogeyman is just two kids standing on eachother’s shoulder with a sheet over them).

    Different arrangements take a different amount of understanding and balance to pull off. The keys to remember are:

    1) Hypergamy rules. As long as you stay high-value, she’ll choose you. So you don’t get to slack off…if you want to become a lazy slob, do monogamy. Hypergamy rules so much that you can even TELL her to go bang other guys and as long as she views you as higher value than them, she wont bang them. Trust Hypergamy. Girls would rather have 10% of a badass alpha, than 100% of a chode beta…you’re giving her 90% of a badass alpha. That’s a good fuckin’ deal and her Hypergamy understands that.

    2) Understand what value IS to a woman. It’s not height and looks and money. A lot of guys won’t be able to pull off this arrangement because they’re caught in the paradigm of “but I can’t be higher value than that guy over there because that guy over there is tall and good-looking and rich!!!!!” To pull it off you have to legitimately believe you’re higher-value than all other men because she pings off you to decide how to feel…so what you feel, she feels. Strongest frame wins, and if you understand that the emotions you give her (and what type of emotions TO give her (ie – dread game is seemingly “bad” emotions, and yet she needs it the same way we all go see movies that give us “bad” emotions at points instead of just happy movies with no conflict)) are what she values. Not being able to accept this is probably the biggest reason guys can’t pull this off.

    3) You can ALWAYS go from an open relationship or one where you’re playing around, to monogamy, but you can’t (or at least it’s close to impossible) go from monogamy to an open arrangement or one where you can play around. The former is her taming the badboy and is a huge win to her. The latter is you saying “you’re not good enough, I want more”. So you can ALWAYS go forward toward monogamy but you can’t go backward…so when she meets you, you should be living the lifestyle you want her to accept and you should not compromise on it, especially not on her terms (ie – most men will cave at her saying “I like you too much, I can’t do this if you’re going to keep seeing other girls”, instead of wishing her the best of luck and waiting for her to come back and accept it). Be congruent with it from the start instead of trying to spring it on her a year in. When guys say “I’ve been seeing this girl and she’s cool but I’m not ready to settle yet, how do I do one of those open things?” it’s already too late. They should have been setting the frame from the start so they aren’t trying to go backwards.

    4) The most important thing to an LTR is knowing that she’s above all the other girls. As long as she knows that she comes first and that you aren’t going to leave her for some other girl, she’ll be fine. The problem is a lot of guys have no self-restraint and fuck this one up…they run too much dread-game on their LTR or they catch feelings for their fuckbuddies/ONS or start letting the FB take priority from their LTR and it all falls apart.

    5) Knowing that, it comes down to what the Joker says: “Nobody panics when things go “according to plan”, even if the plan is horrifying.” You have to know exactly what you want and exactly what role each girl will play in your life and this is adamant. Your LTR is your Primary and she gets all the relationship stuff on top of the sex stuff. Your Secondaries (regular fuckbuddies) only get the sex stuff and you don’t see them more than once every week or two to avoid either of you catching feelings etc. You don’t go on dates with them, you don’t do cuddle movie nights, you fuck and that’s it. Other girls are below that and are just for very occasional bangs or are one night stands.

    The thing that blew my mind when I first started experimenting with this? I knew my Primary would probably be okay with it because she gets reassurance that if I play around on the side it doesn’t mean anything and I’ll be safe about it and come back to her plus she gets all the special stuff…and I knew the lowest tier would probably be okay with it because they aren’t around enough to care about their role in my life. But I figured the Secondary girls would put up a lot of resistance because they’re around me enough to like me but KNOW I have a Primary girlfriend (a bigass photo of her head was on my nightstand lol). Makes sense right? Turns out as long as that Secondary role is very clearly defined, they were totally cool with it and considered my Primary to be a lucky girl. Some of them gave me relationship advice (lol) and would recommend wines to try with my GF and restaraunts to take her too etc. Like actively trying to help my relationship. That was surreal the first time it happened but now I understand it. They know there’s no chance of becoming my Primary so they don’t yearn for it because it’s not an option…contrast that with the guy who has weak boundaries and gives them a cuddle movie date night and now she sees his Primary as “competition” and his Primary sees her as “competition” and now you have drama and it explodes in your face.

    6) Keep it all discreet. It’s between you and your girl and she doesn’t need to know the dirty details (unless she’s the type that gets off on that). Women fear social judgement above all. An arrangement that she’s perfectly happy in and actively enjoys, will suddenly feel “wrong” if her friends and family start judging her on it. So act like a good solid boyfriend and let her call you that and call her your girlfriend so that she doesn’t have nosy people prying in, and don’t run around bragging about it. A lot of celebs that have these arrangements have it fall apart because they get too public and everyone starts judging and pressuring the girl (“don’t you respect yourself???” etc.). These relationships are all around you but the ones that work you’ll never know are there.

    Really truly internalize all that and you can pull off whatever setup you want. Click my name to check my archives for more. Search for “oLTR” and “open relationship” and “primary” and that should pull up a bunch of detailed shit on this.

    “But for example the most famous athlete in the world Christiano Ronaldo was just broken up with by his model girlfriend b/c he was being too promiscuous……I wanted your thoughts on this.”

    You know about it. There’s the problem. Discretion is key. Gene Simmons is a good example. Dude avoids marriage basically his whole life, then he does a reality show like a dumbass and suddenly his chick has the social judgement of the entire world on their relationship and now to alleviate the pressure (even though she was likely perfectly fine with their arrangement the entire time up till then) dude has to get married. Will Smith and Jada have an oLTR but they keep the fuck HUSH about that shit. Will’s new movie, him and the main chick (who he probably banged) have flirty as fuck chemistry so it’ll be interesting to see if the press starts hounding Jada about their relationship and if that fucks things up.

    It’s very difficult to do this if you’re a celebrity with people following your every move and judging your Primary. But if you’re just some dude? All you have to worry about are her friends and family really.

    Most guys will never experiment with this because they’re in too much scarcity and don’t want to risk losing their Primary, so there’s not a lot of information about the exact ABC steps to go about doing it. And if you openly discuss it, it fucks it up, so a guy like RSD Tyler who’s been running this setup for years can’t say too much or next thing you know he has a ton of people judging his GF and the whole thing falls apart.

    Girls don’t give a shit about monogamy. They think they do, because they’re socially conditioned, but a girl knows a high-value guy is going to fuck around…as long as that’s congruently who he is from the start. Tiger Woods fucked up because he pretended to be a monogamous family man and then got caught…so he was a deceptive cheat. Someone like Russell Brand can have multiple girls on the go because that’s what you congruently expect from a guy like him.

    It’s a huge topic with a shitload of nuances to it. Start out by making sure new fuckbuddies you meet know you see other girls if you currently pretend not to be when you meet new FBs and learn to calibrate that. Then try telling new ones that you have a girlfriend of 2 years but you’re allowed to play around on your own time so don’t go falling in love with me etc. and learn to calibrate that. With experience you start to understand how to make it work.

    You can just lie but I’m not a fan of that, I prefer things to be open and honest because I trust that I’m high-value enough for her to be cool with me seeing other girls (and expect it really). Lying runs the risk of too much drama if you get caught (ie – Tiger Woods) and I like my life low-drama lol

  8. @Charlotte,

    “@Seraph
    You’ve become incoherent–time for some snooze, no?”

    Now…

    How do you THINK a response like this makes you look?

    I mean, there are a lot of layers to it, even considering it’s brevity, but none of them make you look good.

    I hope to God you are a troll impersonating Charlotte Allen for Charlotte Allen’s sake.

    Yeesh.

  9. @ Chump_no_more

    Agree.

    She is part of the mainstream media. So I believe she garners some influence.

    Here is a comment I made to her earlier on this thread.

    “Rollo is the gold standard for encouraging men to use their mind in a positive, enlightened and knowable pursuit. To recognize women for their true nature in the context of the modern day fem centric culture and not to hate them for it.”

  10. @Will
    “Basically Christiano Ronaldo can’t even do what your saying….unless you claim he didn’t play his cards right……”

    That’s what I claim. Trying to maintain an oLTR or harem arrangement as a AAA celebrity is like trying to balance a tube of nitroglycerin in the back of a moving truck speeding down a bumpy road.

    “Also, the problem is getting those girls that chase you. Usually girls don’t just relentlessly chase like that…..”

    If you can’t get girls to chase you then it’s time to work on your game. Re-read Mystery Method (cat string theory, qualifying, push/pull, etc.) and search my archives for Julien’s PIMP videos relating to making a girl invest. Todd from RSD has some good stuff on getting them to chase you as well. Making a girl chase you is like, ground-floor basic game. Going out there and just crossing your fingers that girls will like you enough to chase you just because you make some idle chit-chat is what normal dudes do.

    “you gotta pursue at some point or pursue a little. that’s also what confuses me. i don’t know anyone who doesn;t do that or doesn’t have to do that”

    It’s all about understanding the psychology and tightening up your game.

  11. @Rollo
    Two things that make me lol:

    1) The thread is now FULL of dudes who ALL KNEW EVO-PSYCHE WAS BULLSHIT YA MAN I WAS TOTALLY WORKIN ON MY OWN THEORIES ABOUT THAT I’M CURIOUS TO SEE ROOSH’S THOUGHTS CUZ LIKE I KNEW THE WHOLE TIME BRO…whatever Leader says, goes. Two legs good, four legs baa-a-a-ad!

    2) They post stuff like this (about Roosh’s video): “I thought I was the only one captivated by his mesmerising expression and depth of emotion but now I see it had the same effect on many others too. I’ve taken down notes, and for the avoidance of doubt there is absolutely no sarcasm or slyness in this post.”

    …which is weird, because I thought homosexuals WEREN’T allowed in their movement.

    It’s fascinating to watch in terms of observing social dynamics, but I would feel better about it if it were just a group of retarded dudes. Seeing a group of guys who study game acting like this is just like…wtf were you guys studying?? Did you skip everything everyone’s ever written or talked about with regards to internal game, ego, giving value, etc.?? I’m just disappointed in them more than anything…but I guess that happens when you have more fun LARP’ing that you’re James Bond than being a guy who’s actually trying to develop himself.

  12. @YaReally

    I’ve gotten decent results with not being explicit but not exactly volunteering the info. If they asked I’ve said “Yeah, I’m seeing other folks” and left it at that. Never had a chick bail on that, but then again I was plating like… 5s and shit, so it’s a lot easier when I had them genuinely outclassed for SMV. Even had a moment when I was dating two lawyers and the conversation came around to the fact with one of them.

    “How many lawyers are you dating?”

    “You really wanna know?” with a big shit-eating grin. She didn’t. We fucked later.

    I’ve yet to try spinning multiple actually attractive chicks though just because they are a genuine rarity in my life right now. Never mind multiple, I’m having trouble just running in to one for the moment. But I’m assuming from my experience with chicks that I genuinely outclassed in SMV and knew it, that for better looking women it’s a case of really pushing up that perceived SMV through Game and other means. If that’s really how it works, then I suppose I understand the dynamic of how to play it already. I just need to work on how I present myself and how women will perceive it.

    *sigh* I’m grateful for everything I learn here and fully intend to put it in to practice, I just always wish I’d figured it out about 10 years ago. Woulda saved a lot of time and heartache.

  13. @Rollo
    “It’s coordinated as expected.”

    lol it doesn’t matter in the end. Their own members’ behavior destroys any credibility they want to gain. No one is rushing to sign up for neomasculinity except the guys who already love him. Just protect your own ass and expect trolls and possible hacking (backup all your writing and shit etc.) as you weather the storm while they’re in butthurt-mode right now. I recommend updating your passwords and using a password manager where you can have long as fuck crazy passwords. Two-step verification where you can couldn’t hurt. I’d like to think they wouldn’t go that far, but who the fuck knows after the SJW/Feminist shit they’ve been pulling.

    @Sun Wukong
    “But I’m assuming from my experience with chicks that I genuinely outclassed in SMV and knew it,”

    If you could treat a 10 like you treat a 4 (in terms of your subcommunications that come with truly knowing that you obviously outclass her in SMV), she would respond just like the 4.

    Game, literally, is just entitlement. Everything stems from that. Approach anxiety is from not feeling entitled enough to deserve the girl. Screening is something only a guy who feels entitled to girls of her calibur would do (because if she doesn’t pass his screening he can get another one just as good as her). Dominance, leading, holding your frame, escalating, all of it comes from entitlement.

    If you could flip a switch in your brain, like if we could hook up some kind of electrode and zap that switch in your brain from “I don’t deserve this type of girl yet” to “of course I deserve her”, you would be able to get the hottest of the hot.

    Guys waste WAY too much time on subpar girls. Go for the hottest ones you see and start blowing through your limiting beliefs. If you don’t see many hot girls around, figure out where you CAN find them.

  14. @Jeremy

    To explain my stance re: gays, I suppose I should note where I’m coming from. While yes, there’s a more promiscuous tendency in that community, they stress the same as we do hitting on somebody they’re interested in. They know a lot of the same frustrations and feelings, and a couple gay friends I’ve had have really expressed frustrations with trying to find a good LTR that really mirror what any straight guy looking for a chick would feel.

    Also you take a look at a case like Jack Donovan, and they have all the tendencies towards masculine behavior lurking in there just like straight guys do, so when it’s shamed it’s attacking them as well. They find it a bit more offensive I’d wager though, since attacking masculinity is done on behalf of straight women interacting with straight men and gays just get caught in the crossfire.

    I realize that the parts like understanding incel may not apply (though you’d be surprised; low SMV gays find themselves in a pinch similar to low SMV straights), and understanding the frustrations of dealing with female psychology also doesn’t apply, but they understand what it’s like to be in a male body with male T levels. They just have the cover of, as I mentioned, not being accused of viewing women as objects since they have no desire to fuck them.

  15. “She’s a woman,and as such, she neither has the biological wiring or the social incentive to understand the male experience or have significant empathy for men, in general. Can she love or hold particular men high in esteem? Of course! But, men in general? Not a snowball’s chance in hell.”

    Complete crap, Chump. So many of you have simply walled yourself off, so all you can now see is that which validates your own perceptions of reality.

    And that is why your red pill ideology begins to take on a cult like religious fanaticism, because anything that threatens your own perceptions must be crushed and destroyed.

    Sorry about the doxxing, Tomassi. That’s another unpleasant aspect of the manosphere and the behavior of small minded bullies. Why don’t you tell each other to stop being so stupid?

  16. @YaReally

    If you could treat a 10 like you treat a 4 (in terms of your subcommunications that come with truly knowing that you obviously outclass her in SMV), she would respond just like the 4.

    Every attempt at very hot chicks in the past has resulted in anything from polite dodges (when done politely) to straight up laughter when I approached it with swagger. Were I to guess, I’d suppose my swagger came across as “hollow” since under the hood I didn’t believe the shit I was saying. How do you convince yourself of things that your brain deep down is saying “Dude we know this is bullshit. She’s never gonna buy it”? That seems like where I’m really stumbling.

    If you don’t see many hot girls around, figure out where you CAN find them.

    Yeah my current social circles are shit for that, and Dallas is arranged horribly for social lives. It’s a bland city built for commerce and raising 2.5 children in the ‘burbs with your overpriced wife. I’m working on getting better circles for the first time in… ever, and finally making progress toward being ready to leave this town in a few years.

    Still, there’s no time like the present. Soon as I’m in the new apartment and settled in, new hunting grounds will be a priority.

    Oh and here’s another one I’ve wondered about: waitress game. If you’ve run in to a cute waitress as a place you frequent, it really strikes me as a bad idea to try and game that in to anything. I’m really curious if any of the more experienced guys like yourself have found it to be a better idea to just steer clear of them as prospects and enjoy them as nice scenery. Still, I’m always tempted…

  17. @Sun- I’m sure yareally is going to have a better answer gamewise, but I wanted to point out two things.
    First is that the cognitive dissonance is arising because you see a hb9 and then decide to go into swagger/confident mode. Ultimately you want to find other justifications for feeling that swagger and confidence. In a way you are letting others define your frame. Practice always walking around with swagger and confidence, no matter who is around. So that when hb10 shows up, your brain isn’t trying to do something “to get laid”, it’s just “who I am”.
    Find other reasons to be in that state of min. Do it cause it feels good. As you say “do it for me”.
    Secondly I try to avoid changing in any way from whatever mood I am in just because I want to bang some hb walks into the room. Part of what women are great at picking up on is noticing the changes in your state and its incongruencies. If I am in a bad mood and some hb walks in, I’ll talk to her from that very same bad mood place as I was in. In a way, it is its own form of DHV, in the sense that she is not important enough to you to even bother changing your mood for. Most likely, she’ll notice she had no effect on your state. It’s hard to tell your brain that you are the prize when your telling your brain that you need to act a certain way for her to be attracted to you.
    Interested in Yareallys response in this one, because I have to admit I still run mostly on instinct and intuition, since its whats worked for me.

  18. Wow. I just now read the fallout b/t Rollo and Roosh. Pretty wild, never expected that. Had no idea that shit was transpiring. Interesting stuff, and 100% in line with what I wrote a few days back. See, gentlemen, I don’t actually have a dog in this fight, other than the truth. Whoever speaks less than the truth will feel my weight in their up ship against the down currents… I am non-partisan… as my comments over time have reflected, and will always reflect.

    That being said, I am now left to stand in integrity and stare nakedly at the arguments of both sides. What a conundrum. From my objective viewpoint, I saw one side stand and make its case, while watching the other side stand and defend, via strawmen and ad hominems, unfortunately. Never expected that, and frankly, don’t really care to be in the middle of it.

    Given my participation here, however, I feel compelled to weigh in. There are larger forces at work here than merely our hormones. Anchor yourself on them, if that works for you, and if that is respectable. If not, then ignore what follows.

    Looking to another man as to how to live your life re females has a descriptor: it’s called religion:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
    A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.

    Hey, if you want to make this site your religion (I don’t, personally), then good for you. No argument from me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvdmxszsDM8

    I NEVER talk shit to ANYONE, unless they talk shit to others, in which case, they WILL feel me. I will not stand for juniors preaching to seniors. It doesn’t work that way.

    Peace, more to come.

    1. @Charlotte

      That is my age wouldn’t mind speaking to you about your comments in person considering the distance isn’t far.

      “I’m not part of the problem. I’m happily married (27 years) to a man I adore.”

      “my husband and I live in DC.” – Charlotte

      So do I it would be best to than perhaps have this conversation in person.

      “It doesn’t make sense to you that a man would have reasons for doing things and those reasons aren’t important to you…and that’s scary, because you probably consider yourself a good person and I know you won’t stop spouting your “wisdom” or ever consider why your perspective is fucked up.”

      What do you think that comes from?

      @Rollo

      This is why I hold you with an profound amount of respect

      “Honestly I don’t see how anyone is surprised by Charlotte’s callous disregard for the suicide of this man. It’s a textbook example of both the solipsism of the War Brides dynamic and a confirmation of everything I wrote in Empathy.”

      @Furiousferret

      “The monkey brain knows the score.”

      Even when we tell ourselves otherwise least me. I am calling my own bullshit here.

      “some these men given the indoctrination and environment they are thrown. ”

      That was me for 17 years with but of violence and verbal attacks as well as some sexual abuse. You get to the point where you ether take your life or love to the point of depletion. That to some point turns to chronic habitual suicide.

      “SJW worship Marx instead of a supernatural deity. Main difference really.”

      Agreed

      @kfg

      “It contains the word “care,” perhaps it’s an expression of (chorus of angels with fanfare) Motherhood.”

      I think therefore I am

      @Seraph

      “Will both fuck you up if you listen to them?

      Yes.

      But I said ‘well-intentioned’ and we all know what the road to Hell is paved with.”

      Hell that sounds a lot like me awhile ago.

      @Yareally

      “That’s why I say WHY is the hammer broken. She gives no fucks because all that matters to her is that it’s broken. Of course him hitting the bottle is technically his fault, he’s the one lifting it up and putting it to his mouth…but WHY is he doing that? What are the problems that keep him coming back to that and why is that a solution to him? That’s the important shit that society needs to look at and listen to.”

      Well that’s why I am here brother that’s why I am here.

      “Women fear social judgement above all. ”

      Dude your words are a wingmans poems… Thank you

      “than being a guy who’s actually trying to develop himself.”

      Takes time I use both you and Rollo work as a man to man gold. I respect you two a lot.

      “of course I deserve her”, you would be able to get the hottest of the hot.”

      I smile and leave it at that.

      @Insanity

      “We come here because we know how amazing and awesome men truly are and we can’t figure out why so many of you don’t realize that.”

      Maybe I do

      description

      @70santihero

      “It would be my recommendation for you to read Rollo’s essays or perhaps Roissy’s synopsis of F Roger Devlin’s Sexual Utopia in Power, or Devlin’s writings directly.

      The reasons are myriad and diverse as to why so many of us are hearing the call.”

      I could read more here will go back and read more post.

      “in the context of the modern day fem centric culture and not to hate them for it.”

      That is a gift to myself. It’s true it’s true.

      @Will

      “Usually girls don’t just relentlessly chase like that…..you gotta pursue at some point or pursue a little. that’s also what confuses me. i don’t know anyone who doesn;t do that or doesn’t have to do that”

      I concur

      Did that after an approach today and it worked wonders. The one thing I can say about this site is its ability to remind me how ignorant and self righteous I was. While also being wrong about everything 80% of the time. That level of ignorance was self imposed by trusting people who didn’t respect nor care for me emotionally I need to do that myself.

      @Sun wukong

      “I’m grateful for everything I learn here and fully intend to put it in to practice, I just always wish I’d figured it out about 10 years ago. Woulda saved a lot of time and heartache.”

      Me to at 17 I could of developEd better habits. I feel you man I do but it’s what we do now that makes that work far more important. I just introduced a man to rollo s blog today. In a way that made my day more than getting a HB10s phone number and date. Your a great person to learn from and clearly have been around for awhile on this blog.

      “and a couple gay friends I’ve had have really expressed frustrations with trying to find a good LTR that really mirror what any straight guy looking for a chick would feel.”

      Huge issue with some gay friends in the dc community. They leave to go other places because dc is so transcient.

      “They just have the cover of, as I mentioned, not being accused of viewing women as objects since they have no desire to fuck them.”

      Lots of observable truth to that.

      “Oh and here’s another one I’ve wondered about: waitress game. If you’ve run in to a cute waitress as a place you frequent, it really strikes me as a bad idea to try and game that in to anything. I’m really curious if any of the more experienced guys like yourself have found it to be a better idea to just steer clear of them as prospects and enjoy them as nice scenery. Still, I’m always tempted…”

      From experience I have never seen anything good of it. While the possibility of getting banned is huge. I did however pull some of it while biking across the country. It got laughs.

      @Hobbes

      “Ultimately you want to find other justifications for feeling that swagger and confidence. In a way you are letting others define your frame. Practice always walking around with swagger and confidence, no matter who is around. So that when hb10 shows up, your brain isn’t trying to do something “to get laid”, it’s just “who I am”.

      Find other reasons to be in that state of min. Do it cause it feels good. As you say “do it for me”.
      Secondly I try to avoid changing in any way from whatever mood I am in just because I want to bang some hb walks into the room. Part of what women are great at picking up on is noticing the changes in your state and its incongruencies. If I am in a bad mood and some hb walks in, I’ll talk to her from that very same bad mood place as I was in. In a way, it is its own form of DHV, in the sense that she is not important enough to you to even bother changing your mood for. Most likely, she’ll notice she had no effect on your state. It’s hard to tell your brain that you are the prize when your telling your brain that you need to act a certain way for her to be attracted to you.
      Interested in Yareallys response in this one, because I have to admit I still run mostly on instinct and intuition, since its whats worked for me.”

      I will use that the next time I go out.

      @$c#hokm%ma^a@aol.com

      “I NEVER talk shit to ANYONE, unless they talk shit to others, in which case, they WILL feel me. I will not stand for juniors preaching to seniors. It doesn’t work that way.

      Peace, more to come.”

      Playing rugby with you would be a good game on those principles alone.

  19. @Sun Wukong
    “Were I to guess, I’d suppose my swagger came across as “hollow” since under the hood I didn’t believe the shit I was saying.”

    You got it. Put it this way: you’ve been learning to “have swagger” for what, a few years? Once a month you see a girl as hot as her and approach her maybe? A smokin hot girl has been learning to sniff out “fake swagger” literally everywhere she goes since she grew tits. If you don’t believe it, she’s going to notice it in your subcommunications.

    “How do you convince yourself of things that your brain deep down is saying “Dude we know this is bullshit. She’s never gonna buy it”? That seems like where I’m really stumbling.”

    Reference experience. 🙂 The more of them you approach, the more you get little mini-successes and can build up the idea in your head that you can get them. The problem is 1) society has told you you don’t deserve them your entire life so you’re working against a shitload of bad wiring. 2) banging 5s doesn’t, unfortunately, translate to feeling like you deserve the hotter girls. Banging 5s makes you feel like you deserve 6s, banging 6s makes you feel like you deserve 7s, etc. So a lot of guys get stuck on the 5s and hope that if they build up a harem of those, it’ll translate into feeling like they deserve the 8+ girls. But in reality you’re shooting so far below your potential that you probably feel embarrassed and ashamed about it and that just makes you feel even LESS like you deserve the hotties.

    Tyler and RSD in general put out a LOT of content about entitlement and feeling like you’re enough and getting the hotter girls etc., highly recommend watching their vids on it, like these (2nd vid has a solid in-field pickup at the start that shows what feeling entitled looks like, most guys would never have gotten in that chick’s car assuming success lol):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruXZ63ZCFOg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X45fQ8_81Q8

    There are like, dozens of vids. You can pretty much just glance at the “related videos” list off this one and hop from video to video on internal game advice lol If you can run a harem of ugly chicks then you HAVE the technical skills down. All you need to do now is work on your sense of entitlement.

    “It’s a bland city built for commerce and raising 2.5 children in the ‘burbs with your overpriced wife.”

    GTFO soon as you can. Next city you move to get a place near the bar scene if you can. You can always move out to the burbs in a year if the price is too high or you don’t like the noise etc, but give yourself the best logistics possible. I’ve lived in a few places and the places where I had to travel to get to the bar district (or malls etc. for daygame but I like night game more) the tough logistics were a nightmare and got expensive (cabs etc.) over time. Now I live in the middle of the bars, any night of the week I’m only a couple blocks away from whatever’s popular that night and I only have to walk a girl a couple blocks to bang. Makes such a difference. Plus hearing the nightlife outside motivates me to go join the fun if I’m feeling all introverty (I’m in heavy work mode right now though, so hearing girls walking by giggling away heading to party is just torture lol)

    “I’m really curious if any of the more experienced guys like yourself have found it to be a better idea to just steer clear of them as prospects and enjoy them as nice scenery.”

    Personally I strictly follow “don’t shit where you eat” because I like my life to be drama-free. But I have a Natural buddy who banged multiple staff chicks at multiple favorite venues we’d go to (fuckin guy lol) and I was surprised to see that there really wasn’t THAT much drama from it. I don’t know if he just got lucky or what but the fallout wasn’t as bad as I always figured it would be but personally I don’t like to take the chance, especially if I really like that venue. If drama with, say, a hot bartender chick at a nightclub venue I love, could potentially make my nights there awkward or shitty (or worst-case get me banned), then I’ll flirt but that’s it ’cause that venue has potentially thousands of girls all year round that I can try to bang…doesn’t make sense to risk fucking that up for one chick.

    If it’s a place where I don’t usually go then I always try to game the waitress and get her to hang out after her shift that night or go for her number, ’cause why not life is short lol Search for “reco bartender” in my archives for some actual “what do I say and how do I get her to meet up after her shift or number close” advice.

    “Still, I’m always tempted…”

    Well hell, you just said you’ll be leaving this town in a few years. Any awkward situ you create will just be a funny story to tell about “back when I lived in Dallas” in a few years lol Staff turnover rate is pretty high in customer service too, so there’ve been a number of waitresses at venues I like where I’m like “man I should break that don’t shit where I eat rule…” but I stick to it and then a couple months later she’s finished college and moved away or got a job elsewhere and I’m like “ah shit!! I should’ve just done it!” lol

  20. @rugby11ljh

    Let’s play. I am happy to meet you on the rugby pitch. We can elucidate the principles thereafter. Or, would you rather talk some more?

  21. Or, we can wave our dicks over videos that other males have recorded? In person, or over video? Your call, for everyone to see, big guy?

  22. I’ve NEVER posted a 3rd party entity to make my point, EVER, yet for some punks ONLY post 3rd party accounts are capable of making their mush points. Weak. OMG. Sad, little bitch. Hey, you want to know some REALLY sad? Message me offline via Rollo and I’ll tell you a VERY sad story. But nope, you don’t want to hear that. You just want to keep talking shit to this audience, as if you know something about this life. Without telling them about little girls like you, who couldn’t stand being a little bitch one day longer for it, and instead, drank lead. Yeah, that’s right, punk, some of us have experienced males end it in front of their children (6 yr old girl and 4 year old boy) via gun in the mouth BECAUSE they were shitbags, to many good people, namely MY FAMILY, and all of our employees. Did any of us want that? Not so much. Was it justified? Crickets. And you want to paint everything as either black or white. Fuck you, bitch. Life is far more than any PUA bullshit is ever willing to prepare its $3k students for. Try explaining that situation to the fuck’s wife/kids, not to mention employees. You slimy greasy fuck.

  23. 70’sAntiHero
    May 27th, 2015 at 3:16 am

    Do you think the disfunction of the ghetto as a result of the destruction of the nuclear family is not consequential. It looms large as to the latent effects where the burden upon us all continues to grow.

    We have a very clever way of doing that while pretending not to do it. Prohibition. And every time I hear a socon chime in about Blacks abandoning their families I remind them of Prohibition. They don’t like it one bit.

    BTW the destruction is intentional.

    “Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

  24. YOU DON’T DOX ROLLO TOMASSI!
    He has a family.
    He has integrity.
    He has an unmoderated forum.
    He helps people at his own expense.
    He’s asked for nothing in return.
    Now, something serious has happened.

    ‘daddyblues’ has doxed Rollo Tomassi.

    This is the same ‘daddyblues’ that believed he had a ‘paternity issue’… Read about it here: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-41082.html

    “daddyblues” indicates how important his double-anonymity is to him, yet he chose to dox Rollo Tomassi.

    There are terms for what ‘daddyblues’ has chosen to do.

    “daddyblues” wrote: “I’ve posted a couple hundred times but this subject is so sensitive I need to make an anonymous username…for my anonymous username. Can never be too careful!”

    “daddyblues” describes himself this way: “early 40’s, live in large US city, never married, no kids, finance professional / wealthy, in shape, red pill for 3 years.”

    He doesn’t have a family like Rollo does.
    He knows Rollo has a family,
    yet he doxed Rollo.

    ‘daddyblues’ claims he has an anonymous username for his anonymous username. How solid is that anonymity?

  25. “Well, that whole Charlotte Ruse thing escalated quickly.”

    Did I miss something?

    Have I been arguing with a sock puppet?

    Or is Allen truly Allen and she is as pathetic as she makes appears to be?

    I mean there is internet poser pathetic and then there is “I wasted a Phd pathetic”.

  26. @insanitybytes22

    No, Jeremy. We don’t come here to tell men how they “should be.” We come here because we know how amazing and awesome men truly are and we can’t figure out why so many of you don’t realize that.

    Yes, I too often wonder why the chained, whipped, resource extracted, raised-by-white-supremacist slaves of the 1800s didn’t realize how awesome they were. Why might that be insanity?

  27. Aw man, I was hoping to change the subject.

    @zdr01dz

    It’s easy to believe that Estrus in human females is a real phenomenon. Certainly.

    I too find it easy to believe in the existence of the Sun, I mean, it rises each day, so every day my belief is confirmed.

    But if Estrus was a significant driver of female behavior we wouldn’t need researchers to tell us it exists.

    We don’t. In fact, women invented a whole behavioral victimhood complex over the tail-side of estrus, menstruation. No researchers needed, women themselves decided to announce to men everywhere that they were somehow excused for behaving like bitches because they were about to bleed.

    Honestly, Droid, you are just trolling at this point.

  28. @ Seraph, nah shes as “real” as a chick like that can be. I mean, fake as shit (reminds me of my narcissistic and entitled mom) but a biomechanical organism all the same.

    Cruzed her twitter and blog for a dirty minute and all I’ll say is this:

    Educations and being perceived as intelligent (or outright telling you she thinks she is) tend to be really, REALLY important for those who, well…..aren’t that smart.

    Lets let this sleeping dog just lie there.

  29. “Yes, I too often wonder why the chained, whipped, resource extracted, raised-by-white-supremacist slaves of the 1800s didn’t realize how awesome they were.”

    They did and they went on to thrive like they do no where else in the world. Those who continue to wallow in perpetual outrage and endless offense reap that whirlwind too, mandated poverty, endless crime, broken families. How you perceive yourself and others is vitally important. If you perceive all women as great oppressors, you hand your power away and trap yourself in victimhood. That’s what Fems do, too. It’s an unhealthy trap that people frequently fall into.

  30. @jeremy

    I was hoping you were going on continue about the fool’s “secret tinder accounts”

  31. @Seraph – Great stuff, thanks. A rut indeed, but there’s more volition to it than that. What surprises me most is how deeply I hid my actual beliefs and feelings about my life and the world from myself. I truly never realized that I’d just surrendered. It seems to have begun after passing out from the CPTSD. It was the last straw for me. It was like – no matter what I do, I’m going to be fucked for life.

    Truthfully, it’s self-pity. I spent a huge chunk of my young life trying to get over all the bad shit that happened to me when I was a child, and then my divorce and when I developed PTSD after the rock climbing fall, I was angry. The passing out thing was weird, it may sound like I’m being melodramatic but if you haven’t experienced it, well let me try and explain it. First off, my anxiety had been increasing and I had really bad sleep problems developing. It was starting to affect lots of stuff in my life. But to actually just lose consciousness like a rag doll? That meant something biological was wrong with me. Up until then I never felt biologically flawed or sick. What it felt like inside was that my body had turned on me. It was like a defense mechanism which kicked in but never, ever felt good.

    It freaked me out to my bones. I’ve mentioned the blood pressure dropping in other comments, and there is a reason. While I found out later that syncope like I had is not usually fatal, it’s also true that the ER freaked out when I passed out there with the BP cuff on as 60/20 is not typical for syncope. For me, it was like a big wake up call to stop giving a fuck so much about everything. I also was really upset that, as I put it, “I will never be able to fully escape the sins of my father.”

    I kept going through the motions since then, but really, life has sort of become like sand in my mouth. I’m sick of having to work so hard to fucking overcome shit. And this? Fyi, as an aside, when the passing out began I had already recovered from my knee injury from the rock climbing fall as much as I was going to, as it had happened 3 years earlier. The PTSD developed and enveloped and overwhelmed in a creeping fashion. During that time I had fully rehabbed, gotten in great shape again, was climbing a lot and had a low heart rate and 110/68 BP. I got a full cardiac workup and the techs running it were like, “Dude, you are in great shape for a 43 yr old guy.” I hadn’t given up after the knee injury as I knew in any tough physical hobby/sport, one deals with injuries and you have to recover. I worked my ass off, but it didn’t seem to matter. My anxiety spiked without regard to my level of exercise and “stress” level.

    This is one of the reasons I kind of don’t listen to other people about this subject, nor really ever discuss it much with anyone. Guys – please get this point. I can’t talk about this shit with anyone. But when I do, some people have to whip out their personal experience with anxiety or the latest natural or homeopathic remedy or some other crap that they believe can help. They don’t seem to understand that I’ve sat across from top psycho-pharmacologists, as well as therapists, psychologists, counselors, yogis, buddhist masters, energy healers – people of many stripes who’ve dedicated their lives to healing. I’ve tried so many pills and programs and self help – from Tony Robbins to Landmark Education to being a Buddhist and meditating until I disappeared. so pardon me if I don’t just jump on the latest thing some commenter on website spews out at me. I particularly like the folks who tell me meditation is the answer, sigh…I mediated just on death for 14 months, sometimes for hours, reading the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying as a guide (a westernized version of The Tibetan Book of The Living and The Dead). I’ve scraped the bottom of the bucket, seeking out every kind of alternative and traditional approach to dealing with the challenges I’ve faced in my life, and I’ve gained greatly from it all.

    But when my body gave out on me? I was like, “Fuck it, I’m done. This game is unwinnable.” I realize this may be hard for some of you to get, but I don’t feel like I have a choice in any of this anymore. Yet… What the RP has done for me is peel back the layers of denial and anger and frustration I feel about all this. You see, as my friend Andy recently told me, I really was alpha. Before all of this, I always fucking rallied and took on the shit in my life head on and mowed it the fuck down. As Sun said, I used to “eat problems and shit success”. I overcame so much shit.

    Simply put? Now I’ve lost my mojo. And it has collapsed my masculinity. Wanna really know why my daughter bailed? She had an out already – for sure. My ex’s alienation of me as her Dad was part of it, but the motivation in the moment? My fall from alphaness. My collapsing confidence. My outrage at having been defeated at the 10 yard line. My sadness and grief. She knew me as a lion. I was a lion. Now I’m just some fucking has been.

    It shows up everywhere. I have a hard time motivating myself to do much more than just what it takes to keep my business plates spinning, and some level of social life. But even then, the motivation is nothing like it once was. I used to throw parties and have inventive dates for girls. I remember my young GF April, a 23 year old spinner cutie, when I was 39, challenging me to come up with an interesting date. I invited her over to my place, where I’d set up a miniature golf course and told her we were playing strip-miniature golf. No drinking – we were both “sober” – just playfulness. The Thrill Kill Kult’s Dirty LIttle Secrets: Music to Strip To played in the background, as my putting went to shit while she suddenly became world class, lol. I was down to my shorts very quickly. My point? She loved it. She loved many things about me, like clinging to me as we raced around on my super fast motorcycle, or my fascination with movies (yes, she blew me in an almost empty movie theater once). I lived like a fucking “Boss”, yeah? I was an incompetent alpha, but still I’ve tasted the honey of high SMV women submitting to me, and many men for that matter (no honey tasting with the guys).

    Fyi, guys one of the things I’ve always wanted to say to all here about getting laid is this. It’s not hard to get laid if a women is interested, what’s hard is being interesting. Yes, you can do tricks and tell lies and manipulate and play games to get though all that, but it’s hard to maintain a completely fictional frame, and you likely will not be able to. That’s what happens to me now – I am like a frame machine that only works partially or occasionally. I mean, I have some sense of my former value so I just kind of fake it from there, hence my incredibly high flake rate with women these days…

    But to have lost that kind of life, that kind of status in society, that kind of high performing existence? And my money. And for my career to go sideways. And to lose whatever respect and love my daughter managed to save for me despite her mom’s campaign? Well, call that a “rut” if you’d like. It doesn’t change a thing for me. I am facing my own deeply held cynicism and hopelessness. Working on my “internal game” has been the source of all these insights. I’m forced to examine who I’m being and what my motivations are as I attempt to take seriously my efforts at goal setting and self-improvement. I know what it’s like to have that high degree drive, but when I punch the gas now, well let’s just say I sputter and stall. I simply don’t give a fuck.

    Not proud of it. Am working on overcoming it, but there is some holdout which I haven’t identified fully yet. There is something deeply childlike about what I’m doing, it’s almost like a tantrum, with me saying to myself, “No, I won’t set myself up for yet another soul-crushing defeat. I will not get up off the mat this time and no matter what, you can’t make me.” It’s like I feel entitled to it.

    Fuck. Seriously considered deleting this post. Way too close to the bone. People wonder why I’m angry? Lol…Most people will never even have the things I’ve lost.

    The message for you guys is to not just offer me advice but to look internally at your own motivations. Where are you kidding yourself? How is your internal game? Do you really believe yourself to be of high value? Do you take your life seriously? Is there anywhere in your life where you’ve given up but pretend you are “trying”?

    I’m committed to going through this. What I’m doing today about it is putting in a full, billable day for a client and will take an hour to walk the lake while listening to “release” coaching that will help me develop the ability to let go of all this. It’s only that kind of release work (The Sedona Method) which has allowed me to even approach this truth, and get how fucked in the head I really am. It’s the pressure of working on my internal game that has me do the release work which makes so clear my complete unwillingness to actually consistently do the work required to improve myself. It’s impossible to avoid under the glare of RP and other aspects of clarity and self-awareness I’ve developed.

  32. @Jeremy

    Why don’t you just “get it” like Insanity says? REAL men just “get it” don’t ya know.

    Jesus, women flailing and failing to argue abstracts merely become caricatures of precisely what they argue against. Every. Time.

  33. @Glenn

    Your individual existence and story doesn’t mean shit. Neither does mine. You have to kill your ego. I say that with kindness. Gotta learn to kill your ego before you can fire it up and point it.

    Get there, where nothing matters, and the world will open up to you.

  34. @Tilikum

    Why don’t you just “get it” like Insanity says? REAL men just “get it” don’t ya know.

    If I were letting myself “just get it”, I’d ignore the words of insanity entirely. Counterintuitively, she’d probably respect me more for doing so.

  35. @Tilikum

    Educations and being perceived as intelligent (or outright telling you she thinks she is) tend to be really, REALLY important for those who, well…..aren’t that smart.

    Women can’t do Socratic, so they invented talk shows.

  36. @ M Simon

    Intentional?

    “And every time I hear a socon chime in about Blacks abandoning their families I remind them of Prohibition.”

    It’s called the Law of Unintended Consequence.

    Milton Friedman, he won the Nobel Prize for this discovery.

    It is the nature of an over reaching government to fuck things up.

    It’s not an inkling, or a suspicion it’s a fucking law.

    It applies to prohibition, poverty, war on terror . . etc.

    To paraphrase Friedman, Anytime you subsidized something, you’re going to get more of it.

    In fact Friedman wrote extensively on it. Interestingly, it was women who were instrumental in getting prohibition past when men were away in Europe fighting WW1.

    @Charlotte Allen

    It would be wise to expect a little nastiness when our moors have been obliterated in the New Paleolithic.

    It’s not like there yelling in the public square at women, aren’t we in a bit of a man space? Tread with caution. Peace

  37. @Charlotte
    “And come home to what?”
    A bottle of Belvedere and playing video games with our buddies, which gives us the same thrill and pleasure that danger, violence and hunting is supposed to give us men.
    Being a productive member of society and enjoying our hobbies.

    “seduce a 20 yr old”
    you except women can have standards but men cannot?
    And a 20 year old is an adult and can take its own decisions. They donot need your protection.
    If you are against seduction, you should better vouch for banning the entire advertising and marketing industry.
    BTW, who is an adult for you a 25 yr old, 35 yr old or 45 yr old?

    “It’s horrible.”
    As per whose standard? We men here have realized that this is indeed the basic female nature which was subdued by conditioning of patriarchy and society.
    The society has treated us men as disposable and given us a raw deal for millennias. We men here donot want to/ can not go back to the plantation of femininity.
    Nothing so great about having kids and top of it, our kids are the future slaves of the same society.

    ” One of the unfortunate consequences is the attitude of many commenters on this site. There seems to be no middle ground between the cavilling obeisance of the “male feminists” who comprise nearly all of the intellectual elite and the bitterness and sheer nastiness toward women expressed here.”

    There is no nastiness towards women on this site. Not for Rollo or top rated commentators. Its all about calling spade a spade.
    There are a lot of commentators are definitely nasty for now, but they are grieving and unplugging by blowing some steam here. But you have to barge in here, shame them and rub salt on their wounds.

    Unless women stop trying to be men and stop harassing men for being men, there will be no middle ground.
    For all the ground that men have seceded in past decades, we have results right in front of us.
    Just more and more nagging for more and more wants of women.

    Moreover, middle ground results only in dry pussy and limp dick.
    As Rollo says “Desire cannot be negotiated”.

    You are here trying to shame us here for our choices.
    These are the choices which have no bearing personally on you or your family and yet you are here as if you have been personally hurt.

  38. @ Jeremy
    Honestly, Droid, you are just trolling at this point.

    Rollo asked me my opinion on Estrus and I gave it to him. It’s an interesting phenomenon. But it’s not impressive because it doesn’t shift the arithmetic very much. Its a marginal data point.

    You, Rollo and a few others need to realize that insulting comments lead to differential interpretations depending on the observer.

    One person sees strength in angry posturing.
    Another person sees an amateur fighter, flailing his arms defensively as he falls backwards.

    1. Ah, I see droid is ready for another beating.

      Same study:

      Dual Sexuality

      Within the dual sexuality framework, fertile-phase sexuality and non-fertile-phase sexuality possess potentially overlapping but also distinct functions [22,23]. In a number of primate species, extended sexuality – female receptivity and proceptivity at times other than the fertile phase – appears to function to confuse paternity by allowing non-dominant males sexual access [e.g., 24]. These males cannot rule out their own paternity, which might reduce their likelihood of harming a female’s offspring. In humans, by contrast, extended sexuality may function to induce primary pair-bond partners to invest in women and offspring [e.g., 22]

      You could really save us all a lot of time if you had the curiosity to read Estrus:
      http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/17/estrus/

      You wont, but there it is.

      1. @$c#hokm%ma^a@aol.com

        No play less talk show don’t tell.

        “Your call, for everyone to see, big guy?”

        Wasn’t trying to off in a way that wasn’t playful.

        @Charlotte Allen

        “One of the unfortunate consequences is the attitude of many commenters on this site. There seems to be no middle ground between the cavilling obeisance of the “male feminists” who comprise nearly all of the intellectual elite and the bitterness and sheer nastiness toward women expressed here.”

        Sometime I wonder where else you would go to get a realistic view in person?

        @Insanity

        “How you perceive yourself and others is vitally important. If you perceive all women as great oppressors, you hand your power away and trap yourself in victimhood. That’s what Fems do, too. It’s an unhealthy trap that people frequently fall into.”

        I learned this and their is a point to it.

        @Tilikum

        “Your individual existence and story doesn’t mean shit. Neither does mine. You have to kill your ego. ”

        Yoga and the outdoors…

        @70santihero

        “In fact Friedman wrote extensively on it. Interestingly, it was women who were instrumental in getting prohibition past when men were away in Europe fighting WW1.”

        Damn!

        @Shiva H.P.

        ““It’s horrible.”

        As per whose standard? We men here have realized that this is indeed the basic female nature which was subdued by conditioning of patriarchy and society.
        The society has treated us men as disposable and given us a raw deal for millennias. We men here donot want to/ can not go back to the plantation of femininity.”

        Interesting how raw that reads…

        @Droid
        “You, Rollo and a few others need to realize that insulting comments lead to differential interpretations depending on the observer.”

        Keep at it still learning from your opinion but how is it connected to the world we both may live in?

        @Glenn
        “But of course, a human being can’t kill its ego.”
        You work at it brother. I spoke about that yesterday to a girl I am going to go out with. It’s a great talking point in person.

        @Jeremy
        “If you think I’ve been insulting to you, you need to get out more.”

        I sure as hell do.

  39. “But you have to barge in here, shame them and rub salt on their wounds.”

    Prima: Pokes with pointy stick, and again, and again, and again, and . . .
    Secundus: Ow! Quit it.
    Prima: STOP OPPRESSING ME!

  40. @Tilikum – But of course, a human being can’t kill its ego. It sounds cool to write in a comment though…

  41. @zdr01dz

    It’s an interesting phenomenon. But it’s not impressive because it doesn’t shift the arithmetic very much. Its a marginal data point.

    A marginal data point, estrus? Really? I doubt very much the women reading this consider it marginal, though their social norm is keeping female reproductive behavior covert if they can, so they have an incentive to shut up about it.

    Rollo has provided real-life examples, even peer-reviewed papers written by women demonstrating that what you say just isn’t so. I just commented to you that women created an entire victimhood situation w.r.t. their behavior around menstruation, and you call it a marginal data point?

    Droid, what you’re doing now is akin to arguing like a flat-earther. You shouldn’t be surprised if people start treating you like one.

    You, Rollo and a few others need to realize that insulting comments lead to differential interpretations depending on the observer.

    If you think I’ve been insulting to you, you need to get out more.

  42. “if Estrus was a significant driver of female behavior … Women would have secret Tinder accounts that they would use 1 week each month”

    world class fool

  43. @Glenn
    Sounds like you’re basically the definition of “I could be happy being poor if I hadn’t been rich”.

    Like you say, I’m not really in a position to tell you how to fix it ’cause I’m still at your naked golf stage of my life. But with guys like you I look at it like “that could BE me one day. I could be that. He started out around where I am and he got dealt some shitty hands…if it happened to him, it could happen to me. So what would I tell myself?”

    I think the process you’re going through right now is basically one of slowly accepting your new reality. You’ve been in denial about it for a while, thinking you’re the same success-shitting wolf you were and knowing it’s not the same but trying to go through the motions of it all the same because it’s fuckin scary to accept that you might not be the super-champ you used to be.

    It reminds me of the training scene from Rocky VI:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_snO6S64pDg

    “You know all there is to know about fighting, so there’s no sense us going down that same old road again. To beat this guy, you need speed – you don’t have it. And your knees can’t take the pounding, so hard running is out. And you got arthritis in your neck, and you’ve got calcium deposits on most of your joints, so sparring is out. (Paulie: I had that problem) So, what we’ll be calling on is good ol’ fashion blunt force trauma. Horsepower. Heavy-duty, cast-iron, piledriving punches that will have to hurt so much they’ll rattle his ancestors. Every time you hit him with a shot, it’s gotta feel like he tried kissing the express train. Yeah! Let’s start building some hurtin’ bombs!”

    It’s a cheesy movie, like all the Rocky flicks (don’t care, I love them lol), but that scene is his trainer basically giving him a reality check. You’re not as fast, your knees are weak, you’ve got arthritis, you’re old as fuck, you’re just not the same dude you were when you were a young Italian Stallion killin it in the ring. So we work with what we’ve got and we make do and we figure out what your strengths are now and focus on those. We give up, accept ourselves for what we are now, flaws and all, and figure out how to adapt to the new reality and do what we can with what we’ve got.

    I’ve got a ton of problems with motivation and work ethic. It’s a skillset I never learned but it’s a skillset I need to develop right now. It’s a struggle daily to stay on task and get my shit done, and some days I don’t do it and I get that same frustration you get where it’s like “I didn’t do what I know I’m capable of and I can’t even really blame anyone else for it, ’cause I’m the one who didn’t pick up that sandpaper to get at that table, I’m the one who’s choosing to do other unproductive shit or take a nap or find ways to distract myself from actually doing the thing I know I need to be doing”. The difference is that I was never good at it, so I don’t have the ghost of my former awesome self haunting me lol I expect to be a newbie with it and I expect that if I stick at it I’ll eventually succeed, but that’s a lot easier than knowing you’ve done it and can’t seem to do it anymore.

    So with that in mind I would say keep doing what you’re doing in terms of self-anaylsis. Write it out here, write it in a blog, write it in a journal, doesn’t matter just get it outside of your head…’cause you’re slowly unwiring not just social conditioning but all your old beliefs about who you are and what you’re capable of. You’re dealing with Past Glenn, not 2015 Glenn but you’re getting there. And when you do, you’ll probably have to accept some unfortunate realities like Rocky in that clip. But once you accept those realities, you can start looking for what you CAN still do, and what you can do better than you used to, if anything. And like Rocky building hurtin’ bombs, you can develop the parts of you that you can and accept that the other parts might just stay broken but don’t necessarily have to hinder you.

    The other advice I would give myself if I were in that situation is the same advice we give guys with Approach Anxiety and who are scared of sarging: Lower your criteria for success. Set your goals low and achievable for now. You can build back up to bigger goals, but right now you’re at the bottom. For an analogy: if you used to be able to do 100 push-ups but now you can’t get yourself to do 25, just do 1. Tomorrow you can do 5. A week from now you can do 10. Do that for a while and a month from now you can do 15. You may never be able to do 100, it just might not be possible anymore, but you might be able to eventually get yourself doing 25, and they might be shitty at first, but over time ya you may only be doing 25 push-ups but you’ll be doing them as good as 25 push-ups can be done. Extrapolate that to everything.

    A lot of people’s biggest problem is that they set insane goals and then beat themselves up when they can’t achieve them. And it’s worse for you because you used to be able to set insane goals AND achieve them lol So just being NORMAL is technically a failure in your world. But that was then and this is now. Go sand that table for 5 minutes. Or move ONE thing in your workshop, like carry a bucket or toolbox to where you envision it, then call it a day and come back on here or whatever you do. That was a successful day. Tomorrow do it again. Sand for 5 minutes and on your way out move one item. Slowly teach yourself that you can accomplish goals you set out to accomplish, even if those goals are minor compared to what you used to be able to do. You used to be able to rearrange that whole workshop in a day, and sand that shit down in an hour as you lift a dumbbell with your other hand and a girl is under that table suckin your dick lol But this is 2015 Glenn. Start small and let yourself celebrate the little victories. You’re old but you’re not dead yet.

    Your daughter is probably just running on instinct. When we see a man who’s not trying, it’s hard to respect and admire him. But when we see a man who’s trying, even if what he can actually DO isn’t as impressive as what someone else (or his former self) could do, we instinctively respect that. Rocky doesn’t even WIN in the first movie, but we all cheer at the ending because we know he worked on doing what he could with what he had.

    That’s all I got lol Take from it what you can, it’s what I think I would want to hear when I inevitably hit a similar position where I can’t live up to what I can do now.

    Also it sounds like you’ve led a pretty interesting life. Consider writing about it someday. Your daughter will have kids one day, and regardless of how she feels right now those kids might be curious about their grandfather the poon-playing naked-golf playing motorcycle-riding Tibetan monk lol I didn’t know my dad was cool till I was almost 30 and now I have a lot more respect for him and his life than I did when I was growing up.

  44. There seems to be no middle ground between the cavilling obeisance of the “male feminists” who comprise nearly all of the intellectual elite and the bitterness and sheer nastiness toward women expressed here.

    When you’ve spent your entire life at sea level, and never done endurance sports of any kind, living at 5000 feet feels like you moved to Mount Everest. That doesn’t make it Mount Everest, but your frame of reference is so poor, your opinion on middle ground is about as useful as your opinion on the vegetation on the nearest to Earth extrasolar habitable planet.

    As such, a woman taking a break from the relative sunshine and lollipops of the FI to tell men in a male space what constitutes “nastiness toward women” is little more than finger and lung excercise. Good job warming that seat, you didn’t do much else of value.

  45. Going a couple links deep on Dalrock’s post… ROK has turned into that caricature lately, both in posts and comments. Christ they had a literal article defending waterboarding, because “it is effective”. I think I was literally one of maybe two people who pointed out the folly of torture in the comments.

    At this point, I would not be surprised if Roosh has staff writers on ROK who are literally feminists posing as manosphere denizens in order to discredit Roosh and the manosphere at large.

  46. “Understand what value IS to a woman. It’s not height and looks and money. A lot of guys won’t be able to pull off this arrangement because they’re caught in the paradigm of “but I can’t be higher value than that guy over there because that guy over there is tall and good-looking and rich!!!!!””

    Took me a long time to understand this one.

    I’m a short man, and all in all I’m pretty darn ugly, lol. (although I’ve got money)

    I beat myself up for a long time over my height and looks.

    But then I finally allowed myself to accept that those things don’t really matter for a man. They really don’t. Frame is the ONLY thing that matters.

    I maximize my looks by staying fit and dressing well. But beyond that, who cares?

    That’s one thing we have that women don’t gentlemen. An ugly chick will ALWAYS be an ugly chick. lol

    There really is no excuse to have poor frame. Just keep working on it. Get obsessed with it. Take no excuses, especially from yourself.

    Re: Empathy

    There are plenty of women that can sympathize and be warm and caring. But women having “empathy” for men was proved untrue for me when I watched my buddy’s wife move a new man into his home 3 days after he committed suicide. Not a single fuck was given by her. Not one. (how long had she already been fucking him?)

    Even called him a “pussy” for killing himself “like a girl would” (gassed himself with his car in a closed garage)

    How about my other friend that had a false rape charge? (thank god for game blogs that teach to get the “morning after” text) Or how about my friend who’s girl said she was sexually abused by her father, and wasn’t? (rationalizing her lack of wanting to fuck him…ahhh negotiating desire strikes again)

    How about my mother and sisters who disowned me because I am “too weak” to keep my marriage together and I need to “man up”?

    “Empathy”…lol

    Only a man can empathize with a man. Period.

    @yareally, I enjoy your comments dude!

  47. @Rollo
    Standard tactic by SJWs/trolls/etc. these days. Gamergate has been dealing with it non-stop. Consider that a lot of it isn’t even the RVF but just 3rd party people (SJWs, Feminists, etc.) capitalizing on a rift.

    Give this a read to get yourself up to date on modern trolling tactics, it’s an interesting read from a Red Pill perspective too:

    http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5

    You may have to increase moderation for a period of time (ie – till they lose interest, which generally doesn’t take long since there’s SO MUCH to be outraged about lol), but if you have to do that I’m sure we all trust your judgement and know that you aren’t just deleting shit left and right (despite the “punks” who will inevitably claim it).

    I’d say it speaks to the quality of your site and its commenters that the Moby-esque stuff that’s gone on so far has really only made commenter produce a bunch of high-quality discussion/content in response to it lol

    1. There’s been a definite uptick in “new” commenters repeating the same message, all of which obviously have no familiarity with TRM.

      In the last post Chokmah pulled exactly this bullshit; creating new truncated names to give the appearance I was modding him, while spamming the thread.

      Insanity, droid, CMG, Mad Yale Grad, and now Charlotte, all conveniently pulling the same horseshit. It’s definitely coordinated.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy who doxxed me on RVF was a guy who’s become despondent with the manosphere. A lot of spergs lose their minds when what they thought would be the magic pill to solve their girl problems actually takes some personal introspective and self-realignment.

      It’s a definite possibility Mobys have infiltrated RoK.

  48. @CaveClown
    “How about my other friend that had a false rape charge? (thank god for game blogs that teach to get the “morning after” text) Or how about my friend who’s girl said she was sexually abused by her father, and wasn’t? (rationalizing her lack of wanting to fuck him…ahhh negotiating desire strikes again)”

    Pretty much every single girl I meet these days tells me a sob story about how her boyfriend was abusive. I don’t even listen anymore lol They’ll say the same thing about me to their next boyfriend I’m sure. It’s a lot easier for them than saying “I fucked up or made dumb decisions and he left me and was totally justified because I was stupid and wanted to ride the cock carousel” lol

    I had a girl tell me I was being emotionally abusive because I didn’t respond to her txts while I was at work lol Silly emotional female logic.

  49. Increasing moderation is surrender. I would recommend against ever doing that. They want censorship, both by themselves and by others. Their goal is to keep as much covert as possible, so moderation of any kind suits their purpose. Of course, when they do it, they’re “only defending victims”, when we do it, we’re “squelching free speech.”

  50. @YaReally

    I had a girl tell me I was being emotionally abusive because I didn’t respond to her txts while I was at work lol Silly emotional female logic.

    I’ve run in to themes similar to this a LOT of times. Considering part of maintaining control of a relationship is keeping control of when and how you communicate with her, this really seems to be a legitimate frame grab a lot of chicks accidentally hit on in a relationship then find it works on almost every guy afterwards.

    Law 33: Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew

    If you consider every relationship to be a power struggle (because, well, they are), then a lot of chicks have found that to be the universal thumbscrew. They get overt with their frustration real quick when I don’t message quick. Even the ones that say “Oh I don’t text much” as an attempt to seem like they’re going to set the pace will actually start to pressure me to text frequently when they realize I really genuinely don’t do it.

    A lot of dudes cave instantly at that one. I know a few years back I would have.

  51. @Jeremy, Rollo: I doubt it’s “trolls from the FI”. ROK copied the business model of Sarkeesian and other feminists: spitting out irrational provocations because they get clicks. It’s probably a very good business model, I wish I had something like that for me. But it would be sad if the manosphere would become just that. It may be Roosh feels he is losing the lead of the manosphere because of that turn and tries to get it back. As a reader I will go where the better content, the better ideas and theories are. Imho you shouldn’t pick that fight but just keep producing quality content. It’s the way to win too.

  52. “One of the unfortunate consequences is the attitude of many commenters on this site.”

    OUR attitude is not the problem, Charlotte.

    There seems to be no middle ground between the cavilling obeisance of the “male feminists” who comprise nearly all of the intellectual elite and the bitterness and sheer nastiness toward women expressed here.

    Sure there is, and you can find a lot of it here. If you truly had bothered to read the stuff Rollo linked you to, you would understand he is one of the most even keel guys talking about this subject. It’s why *I* am here after years of bouncing around Purple to Angry Red sites.

    The fact that you don’t acknowledge the balance you find here says much more about you than us.

    You came here and started pontificating and lecturing all of us about the proper way to act as a man in today’s environment, telling men, whose experience you know nothing about, are too bitter.

    Several people, myself included, engaged you politely, bearing in mine that ‘polite’ does not mean we nod our heads and mutter ‘you’re right, mam…absolutely right mam’.

    We challenged your assertions, questioned your statements, and tried to explain to your some things you may have missed. We made an effort to point out your lack of insight or empathy. We tried to inform you, someone who claims to be a journalist.

    I tried to do it with a bit of biting humor, but bitterness and nastiness? No.

    I treated you with respect.

    Look where that got me:

    “You’ve become incoherent–time for some snooze, no?”

    What are you? 12?

    That’s ALL you have?

    Really?

    After all I wrote, after all my questions for you, this is ALL you had in the tank?

    AND you wait until I declare I am stepping away to make that pathetic, childish taunt?

    I’m embarrassed for you.

    If you are THE Charlotte Allen of Weekly Standard and Town Hall fame, we now have a good glimpse as to why conservatives often get their asses handed to them by the Left pushing horrible policies.

    Despite your degrees, you are an intellectually shallow person who thinks scraps of paper and female genitalia entitle you to deference.

    Those days are over, sweety. It’s over for the pointy headed Leftist intellectuals, and it’s over for the bloviating conservatives. The real world is a knockin’ and it’s coming to blow your paper houses down.

    Again, thank you for illustrating, in real time, what men are up against when it comes to the female mindset.

    Despite your best efforts, it has been illuminating.

    1. @Seraph

      Glad you’ve got such optimism about the times a-changin’. I think they’re a-changin’, too, but not for the better. Western civilization is fast disappearing.

      Actually conservatives did great in the 2014 election.

      I read this blog all the time–for material–but rarely comment. I did comment on this thread to come to the defense of poor Insanity, who was getting beat up by the rest of you. I can take the garbage you dish (in the comments section, not on Rollo’s blog itself, which is pretty interesting), because it’s just manosphere stuff. Then I go over to Jezebel and Feministing and read the feminist rants and their turgid obscenities. It’s the mongoose and the cobra.

      I’m a social conservative, so naturally social conservatism seems like the way to go, as far as I’m concerned.

  53. “It’s a definite possibility Mobys have infiltrated RoK.”

    I warned Roosh about the possibility. He shrugged it off. Maybe he didn’t give a shit.

    (shrug)

  54. “Actually conservatives did great in the 2014 election….”

    …and continue to make a worthy clowns as actual legislators.

    “I’m a social conservative”

    No shit, eh? I assume your seeking champions to die for you in the arena like the rest of tradcon/socons. Wouldn’t want your lot to have to do more than clutch pearls and Bibles while screeching exhortations of “man up.”

    1. @Caveclown

      “Only a man can empathize with a man. Period.”

      You sir would be a grand fishing companion.

      @Badpainter

      “Wouldn’t want your lot to have to do more than clutch pearls and Bibles while screeching exhortations of “man up.”

      Sound an awful familiar upbringing to me.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nMlDPsRwZE4

  55. @Charlotte Allen

    I did comment on this thread to come to the defense of poor Insanity, who was getting beat up by the rest of you.

    Posting comments here is a voluntary action. Insanity can stop whenever she wishes, unless her employer requires it of her (*hint hint*). Why in gods name did you feel it necessary to defend someone else from potential pain from their own voluntary actions? That just doesn’t sound rational to me. It sounds more rational to believe it is bullshit and either you are also a paid commenter or you just can’t take not seeing any place on the internet that has unchallenged opinions which might be threatening to feminine primacy.

    1. C&P’d from Dal via Novaseeker:

      The effective way to false flag troll is to lead the main group of commenters in the venue (works equally well whether a right or left venue) to a slightly more radical place, and get them to agree and amplify. The point, of course, being to horrify mainstream readers. But the key is not being “so out there” that you’re outside the local mainstream that frequents the site. You have to be subtle, and if you are, you can really drag along a lot of people and cause proper mayhem. Looks like this case, by contrast, was an amateur job.

      Ian Ironwood is getting the same trolling effort on his blog.

      It’s definitely coordinated.

  56. The accusation of “bitterness” is actually a shit-test. This is a male space and many men don’t bother hiding their hurts that much here, because they feel understood. But of course for females coming over it’s a loss of frame. So there comes the shit-test flying, who would have expected that?

    Does anyone have good ideas for reactions? We need some killers here.

  57. Ian doesn’t get many comments, so has to be coordinated. Not that I dislike Ian, but holy cow he makes Glenn’s comments look terse.

  58. “Does anyone have good ideas for reactions?”

    Do we need them? Who are we trying to impress, and to what end? Isn’t it better that our reactions simply be genuine and honest for the benefit of ourselves?

  59. The politics of red pill will be chosen for it. Institutional feminism – the intellectual and politically active force that pushes FI veiled as equal rights for women through the academy, administrative state, entertainment and news media, courts, etc. has an inextricable grasp on the left in the West and the apparatus it controls. It perceives red pill as a small but insurgent threat to its hegemony, and as such will use the political left to diminish, silence, oppress, and destroy it. Perhaps the best example for such a movement is the NRA, which retains its fidelity assiduously to a single issue and is at least plausibly nonpartisan while deriving most of its support from the right – and doling out its influence accordingly.

    If the issue is one of re-branding the red pill, I think the better tact may be to emphasize the aspects of the red pill that deliver to women what they desire rather than the current perception of PUA (which is a rather hysterical belief that there is a secret group of men who practice ‘tricking’ women into sex with creepy mind control tactics). What comes to mind is something along the 1990s marketing campaign for Brut cologne titled “Men are Back” as a sort of revanchism of the 1950s masculine Don Draper type who had been conspicuously absent since the rise of Dobie Gillis beatniks, recumbent hippies and 1980s fussy Yuppie types.

    In online debates I’ve come to re-brand red pill/PUA as “applied charisma.” I think a thread that runs through the best red pill writing (Rollo at the top of the list) is to debunk the FI imposed belief that male charisma is an innate characteristic that cannot be learned (while, conveniently, Cosmo and the like consists of tips to increase one’s perceived beauty and “have him wrapped around your finger”). As with sales or other human endeavors some people will be naturally gifted, and others can increase their competence significantly by watching what works, understanding those principles, and applying them in practice. The FI rejects this notion and caricatures red pill (with the help of commercial PUA products) because it is central to the FI to disqualify men who may be “faking Alpha” before they give their bodies and time to a man.

  60. @Badpainter: No, we don’t need to impress them. That’s why I’m unafraid about more mainstream attention towards the RedPill.

    But it’s not about a need to impress them, not even defense. It’s the way to win them over. Women don’t have empathy with weak men, that’s the problem. But they have plenty of empathy for cocky-funny assholes who pass shit-tests. If you do, you can talk with women quite openly about a lot. We got the tools, they are so easy to deal with, why not make use of it?

  61. @lh

    I can’t disagree, but I think the way to “win them over” is to first win over the men, and only win over the men. Which is the value of Rollo, Ian, Dalrock, et al. Patience and frame, both individually and collectively (such as we constitute a collective) will be far more effective than any sort rigid, organized movement, or set of prepared responeses. Forget about “them,” whoever they are, and swell the ranks of us.

    1. @Badpainter
      “Isn’t it better that our reactions simply be genuine and honest for the benefit of ourselves?”

      To thine own self be true

      @lh
      “Women don’t have empathy with weak men, that’s the problem. But they have plenty of empathy for cocky-funny assholes who pass shit-tests. If you do, you can talk with women quite openly about a lot.”

      That’s depressingly true to its core. Asking for help from females can backfire that’s not to say that empathy isn’t their but they are clear that the asshole shit is their peragative. If for any reason I admire folks who post here it’s because of the help from dealing with the never ceasing shit testing that has always been intentional and misunderstood on my part.
      Now that I “Just get it”
      Women will break the rules for men they respec and create new ones for the ones they don’t. It’s happened to me in my community. I observe the details now with a found apprietiation for Rollo

  62. ” . . . poor Insanity . . .”

    . . . who was treated with almost superhuman patience for years before finally pushing just about all and sundry over the edge.

    Poor little fire ant, being treated badly at the picnic, for no reason. No reason at all.

  63. Re: Applied Charisma

    Is there such a thing as a theoretical charisma?

    Honestly, I think there’s a simply certain amount of “taking it” that women need to do. Don’t like PUA, or the mythical notions of being “tricked” into sex? Too bad, try being manipulated into a marriage only to have your life destroyed, and on top of that having women like Charlotte laugh at you as you’re being manipulated, and then come back and try to imply that getting tricked into a few ONS’ is such a bad deal. Such whining from the fem-sphere should be ignored, because only their actions matter.

  64. Well, guys…

    Think clearly, now: how many of us have had to deal with all manner of cluster B women in our real lives? Did you not even consider the mental health of these trolls beyond the face-value of their posts? Don’t sell them short with merely calling them “trolls”, do the full math.

    Concern trolls are a bitch, like Wyldfire over at SS, once upon a time, spreading re-illusion instead of disillusion. Trolls are gonna troll, they’ll just get a new account or 7, like they do, and try, try again.

    Ever see a chick that’s not getting enough attention break something to get some? I have, too many times. I saw a chick intentionally step on broken glass once, no shit: looked at it, looked at the crowd ignoring her, walked over to broken-glass area barefoot… her desired chaos ensued. I see it on the internet plenty, too. Concern trolling is a calling-card of the histrionic and borderline.

    There is so much good content throughout this thread, and so much to address, but it’s all pulled down into “motherhood” bullshit and seeking-validation-of-the-manosphere-from-women feminism-centric crap. Buh… I wanna… what about “changing your programming”?

    Dude’s, don’t try to educate trolls who have the demonstrated capacity to read: they can go all through pages and pages of the archived logic and reasoning at their leisure. Here, other sites, there are a million posts containing all they need to know. But they aren’t here to “know”, they’re here to disrupt.

    ——————

    Black eye for woman poster #1: Doesn’t know her place, thereby IS the problem.

    Black eye for woman poster #2: Rationality is clearly lacking: the medium is the message.

    The Rational Male?

    *taps microphone*

    Hello?
    ___________

    Before you get sucked in, try to remember this “rule of thumb” joke:

    What do you tell a woman with two black eyes?

    Nothing; she’s already been told twice.

  65. “But it’s not about a need to impress them, not even defense. It’s the way to win them over. Women don’t have empathy with weak men, that’s the problem. But they have plenty of empathy for cocky-funny assholes who pass shit-tests. If you do, you can talk with women quite openly about a lot. We got the tools, they are so easy to deal with, why not make use of it?”

    Because you cannot DHV behind an anonymous name on the internet.

    Anonymously , both prince and pauper are same here. So the tools wont work.(Facebook is non anonymous part of internet hence you can DHV there.)
    Women use those visual cues to get a priori estimate of your value. And they will believe a bullshit you spout but only after you DHV them and they buy it.
    Thats what people say in manosphere, “A gesture from a high value male is Sexy, and the same gesture from a low value male is creepy.”

    For a lady like Charlotte, if you were face to face with her in a debate, she would be simultaneously be debating but also judging you.
    She will be judging if you are good enough for her daughter or nieces or cousins.
    If you DHV and she like you for herself or her felines the she will be more agreeable to you points else she would be shaming you ceaselessly.

    Though your points may stand on their own feet, but DHVing just propels them in the eyes of most of humanity.
    Hell, most of the cults are based on the solid frame of their leaders who DHVed to their followers regardless of the bullshit they spew.

    2 articles back Rollo wrote “The dangers of red pill”.
    Rollo is all the man he can be on a get together, outing, hunting. But I believe he leaves his “man must always perform” and DHV at the door when it comes to discussing the red pill in-person.
    Rollo might be getting softy sympathetic chump when discussing red pill one on one with those who need it.
    Thats why he has not been as effective in-person as he is on the internet, discussing red pill. (He mentioned those cases in that article his brother and elder friends). On the internet his rational and experiences stand on their own. It does not even matter to most internet if Rollo isn’t even Rollo but some bot churning out most delicious pieces of red pill for us to devour.

    Trivia:
    Why do the America football players are made to wear pink band in their arm for the sake of Feminism and other FI bullshit?
    Because most american men look up to those football players and thats the Feminist’s DHVing via proxy. This make the message of feminine imperative more subconsciously digestible to most men, even though it is against their own interests.

    1. @Shiva h.p.
      “mentioned those cases in that article his brother and elder friends). On the internet his rational and experiences stand on their own. It does not even matter to most internet if Rollo isn’t even Rollo but some bot churning out most delicious pieces of red pill for us to devour.

      Trivia:
      Why do the America football players are made to wear pink band in their arm for the sake of Feminism and other FI bullshit?
      Because most american men look up to those football players and thats the Feminist’s DHVing via proxy. This make the message of feminine imperative more subconsciously digestible to most men, even though it is against their own interests.”

      They tried that on my rugby team and I vehemently was freaked out. Most of my players needed up wearing the pink socks for breatcancer support.

  66. @Rollo
    “It’s definitely coordinated.”

    I’m sure you’re a busy guy, and probably don’t follow gamergate, but if you get some downtime and are curious about coordinated efforts to promote the feminist imperative funded by large corporations and mainstream media, this is a 3 hour long rabbit hole that is 100% verified and sourced (every single point is videos of the people themselves, archives of websites/tweets/etc. that are all recorded history that can be verified) that shows, well, something that would sound like an insane conspiracy theory if it wasn’t completely sourced and it didn’t include the people involved literally talking about using the internet to promote specific narratives and propaganda etc.

    Try to ignore the guy’s Batman dramatic voice at the start, he starts speaking normally after the first half hour or so lol

    The guy himself is a nutter in his other videos which should discredit everything BUT: he shows the sources for literally everything and it’s all verifiable public information (think of this as an EPIC form of doxxing) so it’s hard to dismiss the connections he shows. I kept waiting for him to go off the rails into conspiracy territory but he just keeps sourcing everything and when he ties it all together in the end it’s based off the previous 2 hours and 50 min of undeniable sourced evidence. The most important/relevant part is near the end, about 2:56:50 where he brings together all the evidence he’s been showing (highly recommend watching it so you don’t write the last part off as just a crazy conspiracy theorist, there’s video of these people literally saying they do this), fully sourced, how fake crises are manufactured for the sake of promoting the FI:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18gU4HSkW9Y

    This thing got shilled HARDCORE. Soon as it was posted shills came out of the woodwork trying to discredit the guy and get people not to look at it, but every second of it is sourced and you can’t really ignore it. The shills wrote a bunch of stuff like “omg it starts out good but then the guy just comes up with all these conspiracies lol don’t waste your time” etc. but the entire thing is sourced from start to finish with no speculation that isn’t backed by the evidence you’re seeing in the video.

    This is actually something every anti-feminist group should watch, from PUAs to MRAs to MGTOW to Manosphere to Roosh’s new movement. This is what all groups who don’t want their sons brainwashed into the FI from day one are up against.

    It’s interesting to see it in action, but we have definitely entered an age where that kind of coordinated trolling/shilling effort is now standard warfare. Is that what’s actually happening here? No idea but if it smells fishy I can’t say there isn’t reason to suspect it.

    But again, even if it IS a coordinated effort, it can be a third party with other interests and even with no fucks given about the subject, it’s not necessarily the people you would expect.

  67. @badpainter: I agree. The power of the RedPill is empowering the individual man without any need for organization or even recognition in mainstream. One could even argue giving the RedPill is improving your sexual competition. And for sure the Hive will adapt if every man knows. I’m not anxious about it. But even though I got enough power over my life to keep out what should stay out of that FI, I simply can’t stand the idea of living in a matriarchy. It seems crazy to me, disgusting. There is some meta-level of the power struggle between the sexes and I think it shouldn’t be ignored but dealt with properly.

  68. @Shiva H. P.

    Because you cannot DHV behind an anonymous name on the internet.

    Oh, I disagree. I think Rollo does just fine at this.

    You can do it, you do it through being correct when they are hysterical.

    1. I don’t write to DHV. I write to explore truths, connect dots and help men understand their situations.

      I do however DHV with people I work with, my wife, daughter and not a few of the women I have work for me on promos.

  69. I’d guess that there is some coordination as well, given that it seems to be happening in several places at the same time. I don’t think Charlotte is a Moby (she’s a pretty well known writer in socon circles, and isn’t being anonymous about that, like a typical Moby), but the others who have been “coming and going” for the past month or two here seem better candidates for that kind of thing to me. Even if the coordination is only loose (i.e., not a grand conspiracy, which really is unlikely, but rather a few who deliberately target and then a few others who jump on the wagon), the effect is the same. And there are a couple of posters — we know who they are — who tend to show up *precisely* when there is dissension taking place, and this can hardly be seen as coincidental.

  70. @Jeremy
    “Oh, I disagree. I think Rollo does just fine at this.
    You can do it, you do it through being correct when they are hysterical.”

    lh was speaking about impressing women with our words online using the Game. I replied to that.

    Rollo has definitely DHVed to most of us men using rational points.
    And I mentioned that.
    But see it does not have the same effect on most women reading it, because it needs a different kind of DHVing. i.e The Game
    Women think less and feel more.
    So while successfully DHVing to women, what you say matters less than with what frame of mind you said it.

    eg:-
    As a video gamer , I might be very impressed with a man who, lets say is best Total War player. He may be 450 pounds, low SMV, low MMV, zero frame of mind on social matters, absolute basket case of a man. To me what matter is he totally fucks any other player over when he plays.

    But to women this will not matter. They won be impressed with anything he says.
    Women are not impressed unless you demonstrate a solid frame of mind or resource extraction potential.

  71. @Rollo Tomassi

    I wasn’t trying to divine intent, I was describing an effect. The fact remains that demonstrating value in an anonymous forum is entirely based on how grounded in reality while being intellectually useful your writing is.

  72. @Rollo. That study posted by you sharpened my understanding of it a lot. Since you came up with it I tested my resulting theory on a Doctor of Psychology to improve her empathy towards men. She now understands the problems of the boys she deals at work with much better. She gets how important those fathers fighting uphill battles vs. her colleagues are for those boys and how many problems of those single-mom “families” result from the women leaving the fathers. Ok, she already wanted to fuck me, but these things are related as we know. You can teach the RedPill, but you have to demonstrate first. And you can use Game to forward your agenda.

    @Shiva: It’s in my opinion not about DHV. I don’t think Hypergamy is some magic making them run for “the better man”. I believe there is a fairly simple set of emotional or hormonal reactions like the one this study from Rollo hints towards, which shows as “Hypergamy”. Therefor there is no need to DHV as a person you or me, it’s just about hitting the right buttons to get what you want.

    And btw. you might underestimate how much covert communication can happen in anonymous chat. Charlottes hindbrain did judge me and everyone else from those postings, if she knows or not. And so does the mainstream hive confronted with the movement or whatever you will call it.

  73. @Shiva H. P.

    But to women this will not matter. They won’t be impressed with anything he says. Women are not impressed unless you demonstrate a solid frame of mind or resource extraction potential.

    Ya, I probably should have read more, ignore my distraction.

    @YaReally

    I’m lol’ing @~18:30:

    “Ok, so why don’t you start at the top then and let’s disassemble Asian privilege.”

    *silence*

    ahahaha…

  74. ” Most of my players needed up wearing the pink socks . . .”

    Pink, being a “lessor” red, is a masculine color. Being lessor, it was assigned to boys and graduating to wearing full red was a sign of having achieved manhood.

    The suffragettes started wearing pink to signify that they weren’t going to be treated like girls, that they had the masculine qualities of strength and independence (much as they first started carrying purses to signify that they had their own money and were thus to be treated as if they were men in financial matters).

    As so often happens with these sort of attempts, since girls were wearing pink it came to symbolize being a girl over time. The shift wasn’t really complete until after WWII.

    So now they’re turning it around by forcing men who are taken as symbols of traditional masculinity to wear pink, and it works with either the traditional meaning or the current meaning; either way the color symbolizes not being a man.

  75. @lh

    Does anyone have good ideas for reactions? We need some killers here.

    Here’s one: don’t react at all.

    This isn’t a female or a troll space. This is a male space for men looking to better themselves. If that doesn’t describe you, you don’t matter here at all.

  76. @Rollo

    Can’t wait. The recent spate of agittrolls can’t stand up to cold-light-of-day reason and/or critical analysis, so who cares if they’re here. Like you said–they might learn something.

    @Sun

    Yes. No reaction is the best reaction.

    P.S. I found it telling that Granny Charlotte popped up on Dalrock right after Rollo did. She sounded so ‘reasonable’ there. Effing hilarious considering her ghoulish disconnect from basic humanity which got her some frank schooling here at TRM.

  77. @Charlotte
    “@Jeremy
    I wish I WERE a paid commenter!”

    You seem to be wanting for getting thrashed here.
    And I can almost prove you are a fake commenter.
    You are like the sleeper cell activated assuming the idenitty of Charlotte Allen and your blog is like a “fake front company”
    I suggest all of you guys to just click on Charlotte’s link. bloggingstupidgirl at WordPress

    The entire blog looks like an automated bot generated garbage.
    1. Your blog entries have tonnes of articles are quoted , indented and just assembly line postings on that page.
    2. Your opinion of any news item is not more than one line.
    No analysis, nothing , zilch, nadda,
    3. All those articles are linked there only to prove your “identity’s” `anti feminist credentials.

    A real blog of a real women looks more like GWADT’s, not your yours. GWADT has a lot of personalization. And what M.A. from Harward names her blog “blogstupiggirl”
    Your blog looks like a fake identity created with automated blog posting some many months / years ago.

    Once your work is over here, some other identity will be attached to the about section and the blog will be reused in another forum.

    1. @Jeremy

      You seem to be wanting for getting thrashed here.
      And I can almost prove you are a fake commenter.
      You are like the sleeper cell activated assuming the idenitty of Charlotte Allen and your blog is like a “fake front company”
      I suggest all of you guys to just click on Charlotte’s link. bloggingstupidgirl at WordPress

      The entire blog looks like an automated bot generated garbage.
      1. Your blog entries have tonnes of articles are quoted , indented and just assembly line postings on that page.
      2. Your opinion of any news item is not more than one line.
      No analysis, nothing , zilch, nadda,
      3. All those articles are linked there only to prove your “identity’s” `anti feminist credentials.

      A real blog of a real women looks more like GWADT’s, not your yours. GWADT has a lot of personalization. And what M.A. from Harward names her blog “blogstupiggirl”
      Your blog looks like a fake identity created with automated blog posting some many months / years ago.

      Once your work is over here, some other identity will be attached to the about section and the blog will be reused in another forum.

      Hilarious!

  78. @Sun Wukong: You’re right inviting women over here, including them in discussions, is not good for the character as a male space. Men have to be able to talk their way here. I might have underestimated that. But inviting and including here or even attracting them wasn’t my intention.

  79. @yareally

    I would like to add some miscellaneous things. If people on here are working on their happiness, you have to remember something: the two things that contribute tonssss to depression are loneliness and the inability to be vulnerable. Those two things. So manosphere is out here saying meet a group of guys be a leader of a group of guys and always be finding a social group. This will help decrease loneliness. The second is vulnerability, which is a tough one b/c that involves risk. What yareally and the manosphere continues to say is YOU CAN BE VULNERABLE with someone or something. You just gotta know how to manage the risk (I.e. Know how to manage the relationship of which you are in with your primary). Find those two things in a healthy light and your happiness will improve (it requires work like anything else).

    Ok. @yareally

    Looking back now at that girl I developed oneitis for last year (hopefully you remember…it was that college chick I was sleeping with on and off on and off for like a year. Then I took her to a hockey game. Then I radio silenced or just waited for her to say something, and didn’t ever hear from her again).
    I was basically running an oLTR exactly what you are describing I just didn’t realize it.

    The thing is about 8 months in (she’s subtly done it twice before in our time together but I basically ignored it) she dropped a “are you seeing any other girls consistently right now….what do you want from me…..I can’t just be your fucktoy….we should try more relationshipy see where it goes” etc. all after we had gone to the park and were in my bed before hooking up.

    What is this shit?

    I didn’t know how to answer. So I played it like a shit test and said “it’s complicated….or TONS of girls (agree amplify shit)…I want a ham sandwich…etc” but a part of me doesn’t think handling it like that was the right way. I think being honest is the best answer when these type questions come up….

    I’m gonna attempt it:
    What you’re saying is this is supposed to happen with a girl?
    If i wanted to continue a fuck buddy like thing i needed to make it subtly clear to her that i was seeing other girls and be playful with her.
    If I wanted her as primary (which I did and was trying to do) I would say “no not really you’re the one that means most to me so far” or whatever and slowly escalate emotionally.

    I think I get it. A) But a couple things: when your emotionally involved with a girl it might be difficult to just have a fuck buddy on the side or something ya know? B) I feel like I risk beta backslide/expectations with her when I emotionally cave into making her my primary (so it’ll almost be like a slow death or something) and C) she wasn’t initiating texts/hangouts with me as much because I think she thinks she wasn’t my primary or something. So if I wanted to make her text and initiate more hangouts then I should’ve made it more obvious that she’s my primary? Is that maybe why she said “what do you want from me” basically that would mean “am I your primary or what’s going on here?”

    That’s been a part of my confusion all this time: “how do you get the pretty girl chasing….I.e. Initiating more hangouts, wanted to text etc” and making signs she’s my primary is the healthy way to do that?

    Also, I feel like two things always happen a) beta backslide or too much bullshit from the primary or b) you start texting you “not primary” too much and she gets confused then falls off the map b/c you’re starting to look needy etc……………..

    One last thing:

    So haven’t talked in a year with her but I feel like a complete douche kinda, like I’m having so many mixed emotions about it it’s not stable anger regret acceptance etc…and I miss her and my intentions weren’t to hurt her which I think I did. I always personally called her a nickname “doofus” which was a thing we had kinda lol and she posts covert things like a picture with “doofus” and shit like that and we haven’t even talked in like 8 months. Basically obviously sub communicating to me. First of all what is this subcommunication? Trying to make me jealous? Trying to get my attention to contact her? Or am I looking too into it? What is it

    And then lastly is there anything to give me piece of mind from it so I don’t look back and cringe or something ya know? I really don’t think meeting up with her before I move for school is a good idea for the both of us but idk. I’m honestly just mad at myself for not executing right. And she’s in a sorority so tonssssss of girly talk and girls judging her etc ha. Which explains even more why this happened.

    Also for the sake of everyone else in the sphere and myself….could it be you are calling this “white picket fence with a family” thing an “illusion” b/c you aren’t in a place in your life to make that a reality so you are basically just rationalizing why you aren’t able to do that?

  80. @will

    Taylor Swift told how Harry answered it:

    I say I heard that you been out and about with some other girl

    He says, what you’ve heard it’s true but I can’t stop thinking about you

    (hamster)
    I said I’ve been there too a few times

    and she fucks him

  81. @Will
    “she dropped a “are you seeing any other girls consistently right now….what do you want from me…..I can’t just be your fucktoy….we should try more relationshipy see where it goes””

    This is The Ultimatum. It happens when a chick catches too many feelings for you. You can slow down how fast this happens by following the rules (don’t see her more than once every week or two, no doing romantic date nights just sex, basically don’t act like a boyfriend), but it happens sooner or later (usually around the 3 month mark if you’re seeing her once a week but I’ve had it last past 8 months without hitting it).

    “I think being honest is the best answer when these type questions come up….”

    I prefer honesty. I’ll stress that she means a lot to me and that other girls don’t affect how I feel about her and I don’t even remember their names etc. I just like variety etc. I don’t even let them stay over and don’t take them on dates etc. Basically letting her know that she’s getting perks the other girls don’t get.

    “What you’re saying is this is supposed to happen with a girl?”

    It’s pretty inevitable if you’re a quality dude. But ideally you try to slow it down so it doesn’t come ’cause shit gets dramatic from there. Because I don’t want an LTR I hold my ground and usually they’ll go find themselves a boyfriend for a few months but he’ll end up being lame or shitty in bed compared to me and I’ll get a txt at 2am on a Friday night pinging me to see if I respond and that’s the “I want to fuck you again” signal…sometimes she’s broken up and single, sometimes she’s still seeing the guy but just needs better sex, but this is the general pattern. So I don’t stress it ’cause I know they’ll be back.

    Blackdragon calls this:

    “LSNFTE – Long Soft Next For Temporary Exclusivity. A common occurrence with Alphas in nonmonogamous relationships where a woman leaves the Alpha, who will not give her monogamy, so she can get a traditional boyfriend or husband who will. The new boyfriend/husband is always an AFC, beta, or Alpha Male 1.0, who eventually either bores her to death, irritates her with too many rules, or cheats on her. The woman then leaves the boyfriend/husband and goes right back to the Alpha, resuming the sexual relationship. LSNFTEs last anywhere from a few weeks to many years.”

    “when your emotionally involved with a girl it might be difficult to just have a fuck buddy on the side or something ya know?”

    That’s just you being an emo girl lol If you can’t control your emotions then you shouldn’t try to do this because it’ll blow up in your face and probably hurt your girl. If you can’t stop yourself from developing deep feelings for the other girls or you feel guilty fucking other girls when you have a Primary then don’t bother with this ’cause you will fuck it up. It takes self-discipline.

    “I feel like I risk beta backslide/expectations with her when I emotionally cave into making her my primary (so it’ll almost be like a slow death or something)”

    You can, that’s a risk in any LTR. Once you slide far back enough to where you need her, she’ll start losing attraction.

    “she wasn’t initiating texts/hangouts with me as much because I think she thinks she wasn’t my primary or something. So if I wanted to make her text and initiate more hangouts then I should’ve made it more obvious that she’s my primary? Is that maybe why she said “what do you want from me” basically that would mean “am I your primary or what’s going on here?””

    Ya, the “what do you want from me” usually means “I can’t tell where I am in your hierarchy of girls”. That’s why I say you have to have very defined roles. Watch Hugh Hefner’s Girls Next Door show (ignore that they all get money lol) and pay attention to how Holly has status above the other girls. She gets to sleep in his bed, she gets to handle aspects of the magazine that he wouldn’t let anyone but him normally do, etc. She generally has authority over the other girls. It’s little subtle things but Holly and the other girls know at all times that Holly is the Primary and everyone accepts their place.

    If you’re wishy-washy and you’re all romantic one minute then aloof the next and you take some other girl out on dates etc. and just jumble it all up then the girls can’t tell what their role is and they get confused and frustrated and you get drama like this.

    ““how do you get the pretty girl chasing….I.e. Initiating more hangouts, wanted to text etc” and making signs she’s my primary is the healthy way to do that?”

    No offense but given some of what you’ve written I don’t think her not chasing you is something you can fix with this particular girl. You’re clearly emo over her, if she just stopped talking to you she might just be repulsed by that neediness. I can’t really tell from your writing what exactly went down so I’m going by the jist of what I think you’re saying happened.

    “Also, I feel like two things always happen a) beta backslide or too much bullshit from the primary or b) you start texting you “not primary” too much and she gets confused then falls off the map b/c you’re starting to look needy etc……………..”

    Ya it’s a tricky balance. That’s why guys fuck it up lol

    No idea on all the emo stuff you wrote about doofus and piece of mind lol Figure your shit out.

    “Also for the sake of everyone else in the sphere and myself….could it be you are calling this “white picket fence with a family” thing an “illusion” b/c you aren’t in a place in your life to make that a reality so you are basically just rationalizing why you aren’t able to do that?”

    lol Take the husband in all those white picket fence with a family situs out and get him drunk as fuck and ask him about marriage and his dreams. Then take the wife out and get her drunk as fuck and flirt with her. See how that white picket fence holds up. 🙂

    But don’t worry, maybe you’re different, maybe she’s special and I just don’t know her like you do and you’ll be the one to make it work!

    @Rollo
    I’d say Charlotte and insanity are both (sadly) legit. They both sound like a bunch of nosy/ignorant women I’ve run into. I don’t think they’ll go away but I doubt they’re being paid to be here…they’re just dumb lol But the “punk” guy and the switching usernames “quit deleting my posts” guy are trolls for sure.

  82. @YaReally

    Re: Gavin McInnes

    Oh dear God, that chick lives in such an insulated white world. No wonder she thinks “racism” is synonymous with “white supremacy”. Live in denial much, sweetheart?

    And for the record, McInnes is fucking awesome every time I see him. Solid frame, incredibly calm, and devilishly smart while being funny about it. I’d love to talk with the guy over a drink some time. Seems like it’d be a blast.

  83. @YaReally

    But the “punk” guy and the switching usernames “quit deleting my posts” guy are trolls for sure.

    They’re the same guy. Yes, he switched that goddamn much. He’s been showing up on and off for a while, and his initial posts (as Steve something or other) earned my calling him by a girl’s name combined with his name.

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