Changing Your Programming

tilting_at_windmills

Changing Your Programming

I mentioned in the first book that I am not a motivational speaker.

I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be their own self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not a Rollo Tomassi success story, but their own success stories.

That said, let me also add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will and determination. God willing, they can be masters of those circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions in which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s Hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

These are the last words from The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine. I wrote something similar in the first book too, but I’m quoting them here because they are just as important now as they were when I was writing them then. I’m not now nor have I ever been interested in creating a cult of Rollo. I’m not interested in creating better men, I’m interested in those men making themselves better men.

Descriptions and Prescriptions

You’ll have to forgive me, I wrote this part about a year ago, but I think it’s still relevant now. In part 4 of Preventative Medicine a commenter (who, for the record is not an InCel by any stretch) asked me why I had no real prescriptive plan for men to follow with regards to ‘preventing’ or avoiding the bad decisions associated with the time line I laid out in that series. This was my response:

Imagine for a moment I had the temerity to presume that I know exactly what a 60 year old reader experiences in his personal life with a post-menopausal wife. I could take a good stab at it, but anything specific I could prescribe for him would be based on my best-guess speculations and according to how I’ve observed and detailed things in this series or any of my past posts.

From my earliest posts at SoSuave (in 2004) I’ve had men ask me for some ‘medicine’ for their condition; some personalized plan that will work for them. This sentiment is exactly what makes PUA and manosphere ‘self-help’ speakers sell DVDs and seats at seminars. They claim to have the cure. I say that’s bullshit.

I’m not in the business of cures, I’m in the business of diagnoses. Imagine a PUA guru attempting to force fit their plans to accommodate that 60 year old man’s situation. Athol Kay makes attempts to remedy married men’s (non) sex lives, but what’s his real success rate? Is it even measurable? Even Athol recognizes that his MMSL outline is just a map, a diagnosis, that men have to modify for themselves per their individual experience and demographic. You see, your cure, your plan of action isn’t what another man’s will be, or your future son’s, or anyone else reading my work. I can give you a map, but you still have to make your own trail. I’m not a savior, you are your savior

Short version: I’m not interested in making men be better men, I’m interested in men making themselves better Men.

What’s more legitimate, my prescribing some course or template to follow that leads a man to a success that ultimately I define for a reader, or my laying out an accurate landscape for his better understanding and he creates his own success with it?

Are you your success or my success? I’d rather a Man be his own.

Most men already suspect they know what the keys are, and most even know how to use them, but what they really want is confirmation that they actually have the keys.

My approach to Game is defined in much broader terms than simply ‘how to get girls’, and I think for the better part of the manosphere the understanding of Game has evolved beyond rote memorization of scripts and plans. It’s gotten to a stage where even the most enthusiastic proponents of PUA techniques acknowledge a need for an individualized approach to relating and interacting with women based on a broader applied understanding of feminine psychology, sociology and the particular conditions that apply to themselves as well as the women they’re interacting with.

It’s been noted before, my approach to Game / Red Pill awareness is descriptive, not prescriptive.

I’m humbled by the men who email me and let me know how something I’ve written or shined a light on for them has saved them from suicide or some particular hell they would’ve endured longer in. For the most part though I get email and comments from men who tell me that they have built better lives for themselves because a Red Pill awareness made their situations more intelligible. I don’t sell a program or a prescription because each man’s circumstance is different, his acculturation is different, his ethnicity, society, upbringing, body composition and mental faculties are all different.

But we are all men. If the Red Pill is anything it’s a consortium of men who relate their individual experiences about women, about themselves and about their circumstances in what’s now become a feminine-primary social order. As I’ve stated in the past, I’m humbled and flattered to be considered one of the pillars of Red Pill awareness, but most of what I write is the result of piecing together the related experiences of other men.

I didn’t create the Red Pill, I just describe that awareness in terms I think are intelligible. I connect dots, but much of those dots are presented to me by a collective of men who’ve had common experiences. If those dots don’t follow, if those dots would be better connected in another way, I expect the Men who make up Red Pill awareness to offer their new ideas in an open exchange, in a marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes that marketplace gets weighed down with disingenuous critics, trolls and attention seekers, but this is the price, I believe, is necessary to distill and test the strength of those ideas. Only in a crucible of open debate where all are encouraged to participate can those ideas be sussed out.

Men with questions don’t frighten me; men with no questions do.

Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

From Nursing Power:

A handful of my male readers often ask why I don’t moderate comments, or that the message of Rational Male would be better served if I banned certain commenters. I’ve mentioned on several posts and threads as to why I won’t ever do that (except for blatant spamming), but in a nutshell it’s my fundamental belief that the validity of any premise or idea should be able to withstand public debate. People who aren’t confident of the strength of their assertions or ideas, or are more concerned with profiting from the branding of those weak assertions than they are in truth, are the first to cry about the harshness of their critics and kill all dissent as well as all discourse about those assertions.

That’s the primary reason I’ve never moderated; if people think I’m full of shit I’m all ears – I’m not so arrogant as to think I’ve thought of every angle about any idea I express here or on any other forum. However, the second reason I don’t censor, ban users or delete comments is that I believe it’s useful to have critics (usually women or fem-men) provide the gallery with examples of exactly the mentality or dynamic I’m describing in an essay. With a fair amount of predictability, a blue pill male or an upset woman will just as often prove my point for me and serve as a model for what I’ve described.

I never intentionally try to make rubes out of the critics I know will chime in about something, but I will sometimes leave out certain considerations I may have already thought about something, knowing it will get picked up on by a critic. I do this on occasion because the I know that the “ah hah! I got him, he forgot about X,Y, Z” moment serves as a better teaching tool and confirms for me that a critic does in fact comprehend what I’m going on about.

Last week Roosh came out against the various tribes of Game such as it is. While I understand his intent I must disagree with his methods. A couple of weeks ago I got into a bit of political discourse with regard to how the Feminine Imperative and how Hypergamy influences social dynamics. That post generated a lot of conversation, but from it I made this statement:

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

As most of my readers know I have a great deal of respect for Roosh and I still do. Nothng is going to change that. I think time will tell what direction his push for Neomasculine philosophy truly goes in. As far as what he’s describing in that “new” doctrine there’s not much I disagree with. I’ll take issue with his anti-evolution, anti-evo psych stance. I’ll take issue with his want for some as yet undefined moralism; and not because I don’t think morality or reverence to a higher power shouldn’t be part of it, but rather because it pollutes and distorts open discourse.

I’m not an atheist, anyone who’s read my commentary on Dalrock’s site knows this. That said I don’t think there is a substitute for critical inquiry, and when that is stifled, that’s when we lean over into dogma.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

Putting angel’s or devil’s wings on observations hinders real understanding.

I say that not because I don’t think morality is important in the human experience, but because our interpretations of morality and justice are substantially influenced by the animalistic sides of our natures, and often more than we’re willing to admit to ourselves. Disassociating one’s self from an emotional reaction is difficult enough, but adding layers of moralism to an issue only convolutes a better grasp of breaking it down into its constituent parts. That said, I also understand that emotion and, by degree, a sense of moralism is also characteristic of the human experience, so there needs to be an accounting of this into interpretations of issues that are as complex as the ones debated in the manosphere.

Although I’m aware that observing a process will change it, it’s my practice  not to draw moralistic conclusions in any analysis I make because it adds bias where none is necessary. The problem is that what I (and others in the manosphere) propose is so raw it offends ego-invested sensibilities in people. Offense is really not my intent, but often enough it’s the expected result of dissecting cherished beliefs that seem to contribute to the well being of an individual.

There was a time I sat in a behavioral psychology class back in college. Behaviorism appealed to me because it was very nuts & bolts, not at all like the touchy-feely humanist schools of psychology. Behavior is the only reliable proof of motive. It was cause and effect, modify variables, and watch for behavior.

At one point I began to see that women are masters of operant conditioning – they had the natural reward 99% of men want, sex. Men’s behavior could be modified just by the prospect of sex, and they could also be influenced by negative reinforcement and punishment. It was one thing to make these observation, but quite another to express them in the classroom. Many of the more intelligent minds I dealt with then would adamantly refuse to recognize the truths that operant conditioning played. After I thought about it I understood that they were likewise motivated to deny what I thought was right in front of their faces.

I had connected some uncomfortable dots; dots that had the potential of making a man less desirable for having connected them. This was really the beginning of many more uncomfortable connections I would make later.

Roosh has tried to make a case that the Red Pill community (subred) has now reached critical mass. He sees it as inbred; a community of complainers – and in some instances I can understand that. Debate can often sound like complaining. However, what I get from Roosh now is a need for answers, it seems to me he’s looking for a plan of action. He wants something prescriptive for himself and other men to follow on with. I get it.

He’s still included Red Pill truths as being an important part of his new doctrine and I’d respect him for that, if not for the wholesale disownment of the consortium that’s been the testbed for those truths for so long. As I stated above, I think Neomasculinity may have some merit, I don’t disagree with about 90% of the manifesto Roosh went to great effort to put together. What I disagree with is how he’s initiated all of this. He does no favors to himself with casual dismissals of principles he knows are deeper than he wants to give credit to – in fact most are principles he influenced personally.

As for my part, I’m going to keep doing what I do and that’s making men aware of the world that’s been pulled over their eyes. I will likely have some strong disagreement with Roosh in the future, but as I’m fond of saying unplugging men from the matrix is dirty work. We’re both in the same family, and sometimes brothers will fight, and that’s OK.

I disagree with him that the Red Pill will cease to go on. It may be called something else, but it’s been around before he or I started writing about it. The “Red Pill”, like many other terms, is an abstraction; a place holder for an idea. Don’t like the Matrix movie references? Fine, but the truth is the truth and freely expressed ideas need words to describe them.

Maybe Neomasculinity is the prescription you need, but from what I can gather so far it’s a movement based on exclusion; not inclusion, not on a free exchange of ideas. Maybe the christianized Red Pill of Donalgraeme or Dalrock is a better prescription for you. Maybe you need the inspiration of a guy like Victor Pride and a better outlook on your physique.

Or maybe all you need is a truth and an awareness to help you lift yourself up. Yes, Red Pill awareness can be very depressing in the beginning, I’ve written several posts and book chapters dedicated to helping men come to terms with that, but ultimately it will be that awareness that becomes the catalyst for changing his life.

The Red Pill isn’t one size fits all, you have to tailor your own life with what it shows you.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

1,375 comments on “Changing Your Programming

  1. For the record I find his (assuming it’s a guy because it’s funnier) whininess and hysterics incredibly feminine and therefore quite hilarious. He’s annoying, but at least at the meta level amusing.

  2. @Charlotte,

    Troll boy, troll boy
    Whatcha gonna do?
    Whatcha gonna do
    When dey expose you?

    Logic gonna give you no-a-break
    Facts gonna give ya no-a-break
    Truth gonna give ya no-a-break

    Troll girl, troll girl
    Whatcha gonna do?
    Whatcha gonna do
    When dey laugh at you?

    World gonna give you no-a-break
    Reality gonna give you no-a-break
    Life gonna give you no-a-break

    Troll tool, troll tool
    Whatcha gonna do?
    Whatcha gonna do
    When they call you fool?

    1. You jumped in to defend insanitybites by parroting the exact same crap that both Dalrock and Vox banned her from their comments for.

      I’ll tell you exactly what I told her:

      Dal and Vox were right to ban her, but other than blatant spammers I don’t do that. That said if the language my readers use steps on your precious sensibilities you can go elsewhere.

      What troubles you is the unvarnished truth; the truth that some men need to pass through that anger phase:
      http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/

      You don’t consider that because you’re a mewling quim who’s so solipsistically ego-invested in her feminine-defined reality that the concept of men having any individuated existence is never even an afterthought to you.

      You’re have no consideration or inkling of the male experience is only matched by your lack of any critical curiosity about it.

      http://therationalmale.com/2013/09/10/the-male-experience/

      You see, anger for women is exalted; a transformational experience even your so called Christian sisters embrace with gusto:
      http://www.eewc.com/viewpoint/transformative-anger/

      But men’s anger frightens you, not because men are scary, but because men’s anger is offensive to a feminine defined notion that men have it all made:
      http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/06/anger-management/

      Men shouldn’t have anything to ever be angry about because to the feminine conditioned mind it comes of as childish, vindictive, bitter – really everything opposite of the transitional anger women should be empowered by.

      Angry men steal and corrupt the righteous anger only women should be justifiably entitled to.

  3. “You don’t consider that because you’re a mewling quim who’s so solipsistically ego-invested in her feminine-defined reality that the concept of men having any individuated existence is never even an afterthought to you.”

    Tomassi, listen to yourself. You’re calling a couple of happily married women who agree with 80% of what you say, “mewling quims.” That reveals an outright repressed hostility towards all women. In theory we should be allies or at the very least, non threatening. C’mon, I’ve been married for darn near 30 years to a very natural, very lovely man.

    You, yourself are so full of hostility and rage all these years later that to call it an “anger phase” is downright ridiculous. It’s an entire state of being for some of you dudes and it has lasted for decades! My so called “feminine defined reality” isn’t about me at all, it’s actually about what you guys are doing to your own selves. Perpetual hostility is not healthy.

    I know you don’t want me here however, so I shall do my best to leave you to your perpetual offense and echo chamber. I just really wish you’d take my words to heart and think about what you’re saying about your own selves.

    1. And you are too ego-invested in your conditioning to really grasp, much less read and comprehend the ideas behind men’s anger to bother with anything other that repeating the same boilerplate

      1. Tomassi, I’m not ego invested at all and I read extensively, many of the things you yourself have written. I comprehend a great deal about the injustices inflicted on men. Anger however, should be a temporary state, because your power really lies on the other side of it. Anger is just grief and wounding, often justified, bit it is not strength or healing.

        Listen to your own angry words towards me Tomassi, you’re trying so hard to dismiss me, to reduce me to something smaller, stupider, brainwashed. When men find their true source of power, their genuine strength, they don’t feel the need to try and do that anymore. They know who and what they are and their worth and value is assured. Those kind of men are amazing and they live right on the other side of all that defensive, mocking, cynicism and anger.

        Peace however, I should stop bothering you. Carry on.

  4. @rollo

    This fight will be fought by driving what you just said over and over until the “bitter” argument gets placed where it belongs….

    Good stuff.

    Dumb broad ruins a car by forgetting to put oil in it and the average dude is all “oh, babe don’t worry” and fixes it.

    Dude forgets to put the toilet seat down (which I never have done btw) and he is the anti christ and abuser.

    shit will keep on that way until men quit accepting it.

  5. @insanity
    “That reveals an outright repressed hostility towards all women.”

    Maybe he has an outright repressed hostility towards STUPID women.

    …although based on you two I wonder if both of those statements say the same thing.

    @Rollo
    You really should listen to her. She knows you better than you know yourself. You’re just a man, after all, what would you know? You’re still in the anger phase, you misogynist shitlord and she just want to help you…probably cause of her motherly instincts that trump AF/BB. lol

    This has gotten to the point where parodying it completely engages Poe’s Law.

  6. Actually, I wonder if there isn’t biology involved in making women innately afraid of male anger. After all for most of human history, men were the protectors and providers, which is closer to a god than an equal when you’re dealing with living in a wilderness populated by saber toothed tigers. What happens when god gets angry? Yeah, it seems like the world is ending. Women likely have a biological distaste for male anger, but in modernized fem-centric culture they’re told that men can’t touch them, so poke the bear as much as you like.

  7. @ The Downside of Rollo’s Approach – Permanent Guest –

    Just read the diatribe – riveting!

    I don’t expect my physics professor to get me me an engineering job . . . write my resume, set up my interviews, buy my suite, pick out my tie – much less shake my dick when I’m done pissing.

    However, if I listen in class, read the material, ask questions, do the homework, then I do expect to learn something. And then over coarse time put thought to action, then maybe at some point I can look back and recognize true growth.

    If your looking for an ‘approach’ that usurps personal responsibility then perhaps you need remedail training.

    Baby chicks gotta crack her own way out of the shell mother hen aint gonna help.

    @ Rollo – Juggernaut!

  8. “You’re calling a couple of happily married women who agree with 80% of what you say, “mewling quims.” ”

    The shoes seem to fit quite well. Very sensible they are as well.

    “That reveals an outright repressed hostility towards all women,”

    I see what you did there. It’s called “Patriarchy Theory.” That would make you a feminist mewling quim.

    But when I say that I hope you don’t take it impersonally. It’s not me, dear. It’s you.

    1. From The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill:
      http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/10/the-bitter-taste-of-the-red-pill/

      Game-aware women – the ones who have been forcibly exhausted of all pretense of maintaing the illusion that Game is a lie – feel as though it’s owed to them, in their concession of Game’s reality, that Men should use Game to women’s benefit. Even to the last effort women still cling to the tools of a feminized acculturation;

      “Yeah, OK, you got us, Game is really what women want, hypergamy is the law of womankind, but now it’s your responsibility that you use it for the better benefit of society by molding a new breed of improved Betas to accommodate fem-centric monogamy. You owe us our security for having admitted to the grand illusion that’s kept you in thrall for so long.”

      It’s an indictment of Game-aware women, and sympathizing men, that they should feel a need to delineate some aspects of Game into good camps (pro woman, pro feminized monogamy) and bad camps (manipulative, polygynous, male-centered). Even in the admission of the truth that Game has enlightened Men of, the feminine imperative still seeks to categorize the application of Game to its own end. That Men might have some means of access to their own sexual strategy is too terrible a Threat; Game must be colored good or bad as it concerns the imperatives of women and a fem-centric societal norm.

      As the default, socially correct and virtuous concern, women have an easier time of this. As Game becomes increasingly more difficult to deny or misdirect for the feminine, the natural next step in accepting it becomes qualifying its acceptable uses. While hypergamy is an ugly truth, the characterization of it becomes “just how women are” –an unfortunate legacy of their evolution. However for Men, the characterizations of the harsher aspects of Game in its rawest form (contingencies for hypergamy) are dubbed “the dark arts”.

  9. “It’s an indictment of Game-aware women, and sympathizing men, that they should feel a need to delineate some aspects of Game into good camps (pro woman, pro feminized monogamy) and bad camps (manipulative, polygynous, male-centered).”

    Interesting Tomassi, but does this not bring us right back to Roosh’s question, “Do women Improve the Lives of Men?” I believe we do, the sexes live in a kind of symbiosis, so yes “good game,” must be pro-woman because to be pro-woman is to be pro-man. To be pro-man is also to be pro-woman. I’m not talking about female imperatives or feminized monogamy, but simply that rather pleasant and delightful symbiosis we exist together in when we’re in harmony. I don’t want feminized anything, I want men to be men and women to women as we were intended to be and I am blessed to have exactly that.

    You are correct, I cannot endorse “manipulative, polygynous, male-centered game” because I believe that ultimately hurts MEN.

    I think you’ve clarified something for me Tomassi, so thank you for that. I appreciate your time.

    1. And all it took was my linking and quoting it for you. You’re welcome.

      For the record…

      “Do women Improve the Lives of Men?”

      FWIW, I agree with you on this, women can improve the lives of men within a complementarian context never an equalist context.

      I completely understand Roosh’s perspective on this because he still has Blue Pill hope that he can find a woman who will have concern for him in the same context as his mother does.

      THAT is a complementarian relationship. He bemoans that no “modern” woman has the capacity to love him and be concerned for him like his mom. He blames that lack of empathy on some nebuolus “moral degeneracy”, but what he fails to grasp is women’s concept of love for men they desire has always been opportunistic.

      He needs to read my Hierarchies of Love posts:
      http://therationalmale.com/2014/05/06/intersexual-hierarchies-part-i/

      http://therationalmale.com/2014/05/13/intersexual-hierarchies-part-ii/

      He still thinks in terms of egalitarian equalism and a like-for-like mutual exchange of love based on a false mutual concept of love.

      Neomasculinity is basically Retromasculinity because he wants to return to some romanticized era he thinks women were more like his mom. If he had a time machine and went back to when his mom met his dad he’d see that Hypergamy and a Burden of Performance were still very much a part of life.

  10. @YaReally

    He holds frame like a boss there. “…not a’tall.”

    You can hear the shocked entitlement in her voice and the complete unemotional frankness in his.

  11. “Those kind of men are amazing and they live right on the other side of all that defensive, mocking, cynicism and anger.”

    So why are you here exactly and not with those? You should ask yourself why you are on the wrong side and only get to see this. Guess you’re doing something wrong? And that’s not even a joke.

    1. @Rollo Tomassi

      So the upshot is that you’re running a therapy blog. Your commenters–hyper-angry men, all–spew out their rage against women for a while, then move on to some other stage, presumably. So if you’re not a hyper-angry man with a need to spew out your rage against women, you don’t belong here. Because all your commenters must be on the same hyper-angry page–or else. Oookay!

  12. Everywhere I go . . . there I am . . .

    It is a relativist Universe. . . .

    Who’s angry?

    Ohmmmm . . . . . . . . .

  13. @ charlotte allen

    Kind of reminds me when I was in Design School.

    Had this girl that dropped out of our 5 hour Studio Class (14 guys remained, had our own space in the college of Architecture). She stayed with the rest of us in the 2 credit hour Value Analysis class.

    She was married to a lawyer and didn’t have the time to perform her wifely duties and remain in Studio. No kids. Attractive Girl. Wanted to be an Industrial Designer.

    It was finals week and we had our studio project due in three days. Value analysis group project report due in four.

    It was pretty much straight all nighters with breaks for sleeping and eating.

    Attractive girl approaches and insist that we make time for the value analysis project and that it was unfair to her that were jeopardizing her grade.

    I remember telling her as politely as I could that we were all up against it and time was are enemy, as I pulled the Bondo burgers from my nose. I was all she could do to keep from crying as her bottom lip quivered and her big puppy dog eyes began to tear.

    She went and told the professor. He, smartly never told us about it until he was asked.

    Moral of the story . . . . Sometimes girls just can’t hit the pitching.

  14. Also, I really wish I had a dollar for every time Insanity says “Bye. I’m out of here for good.” Because I’d buy myself a very expensive bottle of Highland single-malt to make her seem marginally funny again, instead of just embarrassingly self-parodying.

  15. @70’s

    MOST of the time they can’t.

    We get chicks in our wing chun class from time to time, drawn by the fact that it’s the only Chinese art supposedly made by and for a woman. The first time any of them has to block a real punch (and the teacher usually has me throwing them since I have no moral compunction against it; if you’re going to learn to fight, you have to take a real hit) the arms bruise up, the tears come, and they quit.

    They don’t even realize that the point is to be able to handle that punch, you have to suffer the pain of your body getting accustomed to it. They don’t realize that while I’m strong, the reason I don’t bruise the same is that I’ve taken the beating over and over again, standing back up to take it again each time. Hell, if another student is being a pussy swinging at me, I tell them to swing again until I’m getting enough impact that my form is tested. Very few men have the skills and balls to actually swing hard enough (when I’m not even going to hit back) to be worth a shit to me as a training partner. Never mind the women; they’re worthless for my training.

    Women should stay out of men’s spaces. Not because we hate them, not because we’re going to single them out, but because we’re going to give them the same treatment we give other men. By stepping in to a male space, you give your consent to be treated the same as a man: without kid gloves.

    I have had my ideas and beliefs attacked in here repeatedly, I just don’t mince about it. I argue where I feel I’m right (developing better arguments in the process), and learn where I realize I’m wrong. But nobody pulls punches on me, and I don’t pull punches on them.

    Don’t step in a male space then act surprised when you get hit like any of the men there. Learning to be a man means learning to take hits from a man and keep standing.

  16. I’m almost done with your 1st book Rollo, and I have to admit, I have had to take multiple breaks because it’s a lot to digest all at once.

    It’s liberating to know I have control over how my life plays out with all these RP truths. I found you over a year ago through a blog I accidentally found when searching “how to get you ex back”

    That blog was “Solve My Girl Problems” and was my 1st initiation to unplugging. Shark, mentioned you a lot on his blog and when I came around to your blog, I was very angry and completely mind fucked of what I read on your site, although I will admit, it all felt so true and the lies I had been told the 1st two decades of my life were unveiled.

    This is my 1st comment since I started digesting the harsh truth of the red pill and just wanted to Thank You for connecting those dots like you say. Behavioral psychology has always interested me, and I have you as my Sensei teaching me more than I could have ever thought possible.

    The Rational Male is a great book and I’m on Iron Rules of Tomassi right now. Funny enough, the other day my 2 friends assumed I’ve had A LOT of girlfriends and asked me blatantly how many I have had…

    My response was so good that I was like holy shit, I am repeating Tomassi’s Iron Rule #2 and I said, “Eh, I lost count, I don’t really count them”

    Their response was gold! Haha.

    Thank You again Rollo!

  17. “So the upshot is that you’re running a therapy blog. Your commenters–hyper-angry men,”

    You hear that, boys?

    We aren’t just angry…

    We’re HYPER-ANGER!

    Why, if this keeps up, we might get to PLAID ANGRY!

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0&w=560&h=315%5D

    @Rollo,

    You know you can link to God’s blog himself, speaking the Divine Truth of things, and they won’t care, right?

    Propaganda is like that…the truth is not the object, keeping with the narrative is.

    It mockery time…

  18. @yareally

    Yeah all makes sense.

    The “doofus” thing was basically this: I had a nickname that I called her, only me, alllll the time. And a year later (haven’t talked to each other) she posts picture of her and 2 friends with “doofus” as the caption. Shit like that.

    Idk I could be crazy. But I’m the only one who uses that nickname with her or with anyone she knows…So it’s odd she’s using it in front of me on Facebook.

    And you say “I don’t think her not chasing you is something I can fix etc”
    I get that. I wasn’t needy at allllll. And plus I scored very well on CH’s Smc test to put me in an objective rating (I was low alpha basically I think 20). I don’t think my value was the problem.
    She was the one delivering the ultimatum. I was just more thrown off with how little she would initiate hangouts, but then when I would shed be down and fuck later that night. That confused me.I would have sex with her (some fun sex….picking her up etc…haha) So there’s nothing j should really do In A situation like this? Except maybe chalk it up as a learning one?
    Idk but your stuff makes sense

    1. @Shiva h.p.
      “Women are not impressed unless you demonstrate a solid frame of mind or resource extraction potential.”
      That’s sad to have really sink in but another truth I feel I have been avoiding to admit to myself.
      @will
      “Also for the sake of everyone else in the sphere and myself….could it be you are calling this “white picket fence with a family” thing an “illusion” b/c you aren’t in a place in your life to make that a reality so you are basically just rationalizing why you aren’t able to do that?”
      Count the hell in that. Dad sent me a text two days ago with the words I love you and sent me into a nightmarish aroma.
      @Rollo
      “but now it’s your responsibility that you use it for the better benefit of society by molding a new breed of improved Betas to accommodate fem-centric monogamy. You owe us our security for having admitted to the grand illusion that’s kept you in thrall for so long.”
      Why I love your work profoundly.
      “he still has Blue Pill hope that he can find a woman who will have concern for him in the same context as his mother does.”
      Maybe me and Roosh have more in common than I realized.
      @Sun wukong
      “and the complete unemotional frankness in his.”
      That’s someone you want by your side in any conflict.
      “Don’t step in a male space then act surprised when you get hit like any of the men there. Learning to be a man means learning to take hits from a man and keep standing.”
      Again in rugby you don’t talk shit unless you feel it out on the field.
      @thediplomate
      “This is triage, not therapy. Start helping the wounded or step out of the way.”
      You know your right.
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUEKJIcvbo

  19. @rugby11ljh: “That’s sad to have really sink in but another truth I feel I have been avoiding to admit to myself.”

    What is the down side, to you, of having a solid frame of mind and resources?

    1. @kfg
      “What is the down side, to you, of having a solid frame of mind and resources?”
      Well your correct in bringing up the benefits and not the negatives. I am still working on my frame. Hell again half this stuff is still being processed. One thing I have noticed about my own hypocracys is that my outlets keep getting attacked. I am not angry per say I am sad about losin my male friends and still I have a hard time focusing on myself. I am blue pill in the sense still that I hold to ideals that do nothing but hurt me because of the word “Love” I have a hard damn time talking about a lot of stuff in person.
      Going out and getting a real dose of life is something Roosh did by traveling the world. I wan a part of that. Thinking of some buddy’s of mine who did this to get over their own issues.
      [hulu id=658328]

  20. “If he had a time machine and went back to when his mom met his dad he’d see that Hypergamy and a Burden of Performance were still very much a part of life.

    Roosh’s father was Iranian, Mother Turkish, I wonder how much money his dad put as a dowry/down payment for neo what?

  21. @Rollo

    Do you think Roosh is ultimately a child that got ahold of dynamite and blew himself up? Was his inner game that incomplete? Is that why he’s only now coming to the loss of meaning a lot of guys in the community go through?

  22. @Rollo

    Honestly while I still look at his actions and think they’re pretty dumb, it at least allows me to understand some of his feelings and see why he seems so desperate. I feel for the guy, I just don’t think anything he’s doing right now is going to help those feelings or improve his situation in the end.

  23. “Well your correct in bringing up the benefits and not the negatives.”

    And good for you to see that’s what I was doing. Far from being something to be sad about, it sounds like a mission statement.

    “One thing I have noticed about my own hypocracys is that my outlets keep getting attacked.”

    But I’ll take my own Socratic question at face value and answer it; you will have to defend them, to perform. That makes your inner AFC feel squicky.

    Kill that bastard. He is not only not your identity, he isn’t even your friend.

  24. Rollo Tomassi
    May 28th, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    A comment I left at: http://theothermccain.com/2015/05/27/a-moby-in-the-manosphere/

    ================

    I always saw it as Furry Road. Heh. But I guess I hark back to another generation when women had hair down there.

    OTOH Conservatives are self defeating with their support of Prohibition and their anti-gay agenda. The gays didn’t do it to you. No fault divorce did it to you. And some of you championed it. And BTW Prohibition makes your enemy – government – stronger.

    What is funny is seeing Progs fight government and Cons supporting it. Talk about role reversal. The Progs are weakening their own cause. Delicious.

    No matter. The FI is dying – bubbles always get bigger before they collapse. And why is FI dying? It doesn’t match nature. Reality will eventually intrude.

    It is just like Communism. Doesn’t matter how many or who believes. It don’t work.

  25. 70’sAntiHero
    May 28th, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    There is a big push on at ECN – I used to write for them – to get more women in STEM. It will not work out as they hope. And I say that as a guy who has a daughter who is a ChemE graduate from a good school. Top of her class. Knows thermo well. I have quizzed her.

  26. The FI has existed since man started growing crops instead of hunting and gathering. It’s not going away anytime soon, but it can be put in its proper place.

  27. @M Simon

    There is a big push on at ECN – I used to write for them – to get more women in STEM. It will not work out as they hope.

    I have a front row seat. I’m watching women with less education and less experience than me get opportunities handed to them that I have to bust my ass for. On top of that, at least half of them can’t hack it, and one has quit engineering entirely after getting promoted two levels above me to become a real estate agent. And this is at a company where we build nothing of consequence (brain farm).

  28. Glenn
    May 27th, 2015 at 8:46 am

    My favorite thing to do with guys in your condition (I took in an old friend in that shape about 3 years ago) is to DO a project with them. If you are ready to climb out of the hole I have some uses for your talents.

    I work with a very interesting crew. All self selected. You can find my e-mail by clicking on my name. It is on my sidebar. If you are ready to give up your grief.

  29. Vulpine
    May 27th, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Another point on that continuum. When I was pushing my kids around in a stroller (LTR elsewhere) I attracted the young chicks like crazy. Nothing – including frame which I always (mostly) kept ever worked as well.

    Did the women see me as father material? Easy pickins because the LTR was past her prime (despite not being visible)? Good sperm?

    Well it is an interesting question.

    1. @M Simon
      I had a friend who spoke profoundly of the hard effects of communism while he was my age in Germany behind the wall. He escaped over a min field chasing dogs wet weather to the point of hyperthermia. He snuck on a boat to America in Miami where him and his buddy built a bakery to sustain thenselfs before he left and moved on.
      Anytime you built a system it’s the people who express its effects and consequences.
      @KFG
      ” you will have to defend them, to perform. That makes your inner AFC feel squicky.
      (He doesn’t die he is squicky and very angry like a three yr old spoiled moralistic little brain)
      Kill that bastard. He is not only not your identity, he isn’t even your friend.”
      I tried drowning stabbing and shaving I am really not looking forward to seening any more trace of it in the mirror when I wake up.
      Feels kinda like this
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B0jq8p6Sjjs

  30. Jeremy
    May 29th, 2015 at 12:48 am

    I’m seeing the same stuff. Including my daughter. STEM is not generally attractive to women even if they can do the work. There are a few. But not near as many as the FI hopes.

    And like the boys – those few will overcome all obstacles. For the rest? Ant hills become mountains.

  31. I will acknowledge those that see a lot of bitterness and resentment in here (not talking about the rest of the sphere now), and I’ve totally been in the hot rage/angry despair zone myself off and on over the last 2 or 3 years post-divorce. But the main reason I came to TRM and STAYED here over all the other resources out there was for the sophisticated level of dialogue, thoughtful feedback, real-life sharing, and brilliant insights. I stuck around for the science and the thoughtful discussion among mature guys that seemed like they weren’t just honing their game for the next Spring Break in Daytona. That universe has its place, but I’m a 52 year-old man with two young sons in grade school so I don’t really get a lot out of that particular stripe of game breakdown. I have read Roosh, ROK, Heartiste, Dalrock, etc. and there are some heavily biased vibes in them that always bother me. Some of them border on misogyny/racism/blind religiosity, though in another sense I ALSO see that ANY criticism of women in this culture gets painted with that same big misogyny brush, which is a total horseshit move from the directly observable FI (yes haters, it’s a very real thing). I think I commented awhile back that I didn’t align much with Roosh because he seemed like a guy with mommy issues. I’m seeing something a little different now in light of recent developments (an AFC who never let go of his quest for the dream girl), and this directly ties in with the anger/bitterness issue that seems to be a favorite target of the trolls that pop up CONSTANTLY here—and seemingly, it’s the thing that scares them almost as much as open male RP awareness and the naturally occurring subsequent mitigation of hypergamy’s worst damage that should (and does) result from awareness. My own clichéed divorce/frivorce scenario would have been a lot worse for me had I not chanced upon the manosphere and started to look at where I went wrong with my approach to relationships. I spewed a lot of venomous bile while I was going through the anger phase of unplugging, but, in all seriousness, going through that process without apology or remorse literally saved my fucking life. Despair kills. Depression kills. Repressed rage KILLS men.

    Fortunately, I’m not at that point anymore. I made it to the other side of the river, and I truly enjoy the company of women without anger or resentment. I understand that they are how they are and I accept it at its face value and protect myself against the damaging shit that used to sabotage my happiness (back when I didn’t know any better). And, because of a cultivated sexual abundance, if one particular woman becomes problematic…BOOM…NEXT…there’s always another perfectly good prospect waiting to take their place. Personally, I’ll never get married again–it’s not my thing (shit, am I MGTOW?). But I spin plates just like I learned here and indulge in totally fun, RP-fueled sexual relationships with extremely hot women in their mid-to-late thirties (seems to be my sweet spot). Here’s the thing that I’m hoping to get across to other guys here in a sort of a YaReally moment: I’m not wealthy (I spend almost nothing on women), I’m not tall (5’8″), I’m not particularly buff, I’m totally bald, I wear big thick black glasses (because I can’t see shit without them and contacts/surgery aren’t an option), I don’t wear expensive clothes, I drive a decade-old boring economy car, I live with a roommate…the list of why I SHOULDN’T get laid by hot girls on a conisistent basis could go on and on. The bottom line is game. Not Roosh game. Not Social Man game. Not Mystery game. Not Neil Strauss game. I learned about all the game I know from here (and to be honest, some from RSD). Can’t begin to calculate how much became clear to me from evo-psych (one of my current preferred girls is a Dr. of Anthro and insists it’s “ev-pych” so I make a point to call it “evo” lol) and its application to all that existing, accrued game/frame knowledge that goes into Rollo’s writing. I’m not saying you shouldn’t shop around and read everything you can, but it all really gelled for ME here by reading everything on this site (including the comment threads). If you can think of it, Rollo (or a commenter) has covered it. Not kidding about that.

    Utilizing the knowledge and combined experiences here in this highly diverse triage unit / laboratory / haven / male space / fucking godsend called The Rationale Male turned my life from shit to awesomeness.
    Now if I could just apply it all to my financial abundance picture…that’s my current Achilles heel and my next mountain to climb.

    Anyway, I’m rambling now. What I really want to express is that I admire Rollo for keeping the dialogue ‘open.’ Not banning free expression of thought/opinion—even from obvious trolls. It’s useful and it may just get through to somebody who needs it. I admire the spirit of the commenters here who take the time and the thoughtfulness to address said trolls, even though they usually don’t merit a response.

    Realize that those responses are really not for you, trolls. They are for guys like me who lurked here for a long time—not commenting, just listening and learning—being nourished by the hard-earned wisdom, life experiences, pain, and strength of a community of men to get better and become a better, stronger, healed man who had nowhere else to turn.

    You trolls think this is all a big house of cards, but make no mistake…it is a rock edifice that cannot be cracked or brought down. It’s not a cult or a fad or a political party or a tender spot that you can prod with your petty fear and ignorant bias. This is a place that saves men’s lives and no one who is seriously here is about to let that become about anything else or be fractured by your agenda-driven illogic. Maybe you could do what I did—listen and learn until you really understand. Then maybe you’ll have something positive to contribute to the the greater human dialogue.

  32. @rugby

    Every single human has something to teach you. And I would never throw Roosh (or anyone) out with the bathwater. He’s come a long way from where he began, obviously. He certainly has something important and useful to communicate (I gleaned many meaningful things from his writings)—it’s up to you to winnow out what applies to you and your unique circumstance and fold those things into your ongoing process of becoming better.

  33. Diplomat – “And, because of a cultivated sexual abundance, if one particular woman becomes problematic…BOOM…NEXT…there’s always another perfectly good prospect waiting to take their place.”

    I believe this sentiment is root issue when comes to accusations of hate/bitterness/misogyny. You have abandoned, as a practical matter, what the FI sees as commitment, and as love. You now refuse to follow the sacrifice and submit to the operational model of bluepill “love.” There are no unicorns.

    Up thread Vulpine has layed bare the his new reality of refusing to take on the taming of shrews. Only those who arrive qualified for his life will be permitted. There is no longer any taking big chances that differences can be worked out or that love conquers all. He will live alone before enduring a sacrificial support role.

    That sort of mindset is very threatening to the FI. Losers checking out is no big deal but when increasing numbers of decent BB options actively chose open ended bachelorhood over a potentially miserable marriage, well how are the ladies to fulfill their the needs of the epiphany? Even men delaying marriage a few years is big aggregate market influence.

    I think much of the certainty of from certain commenters that we are hateful is a projection. They in reality hate that no amount lipstick conceals the pig, they hate a message that says women ain’t special. They fear a world where they might have perform for men, any man, in any manner that they expected of us.

  34. @Badpainter

    I can’t speak for anybody else’s world, but in mine…women absolutely need to perform (in a girl way). I know I do (in a man way). Fair is fair. And as YaReally would tell you, the push/pull process of ensuring that very exchange happens is a hell of a lot of fun—especially at this point in history.

    At my stage in life, I’m perfectly happy on my own if that’s what the evening brings. I like to assume other men can be, too. Thus, it’s a “give it a good showing” effort on everybody’s part. But I realize that’s just where I’m at, and I present myself as the high value man that I am to any woman or man I encounter. ‘Provisioning’ has so NOTHING to do with it, that I wish I could Vulcan mind-meld with every man on TRM and communicate that reality in an indisputably clear fashion according to what I’ve experienced.

    Being moderately fun and projecting good emotions is critical, though.

  35. P.S. @Badpainter

    I concur with everything you posited. It is both threatening and a signifier of higher value that one can take or leave traditional pair bonding expectations and still fully thrive and procure bountiful pussy. That’s why it’s such an enraging and v-moistening slap in the face. The RP is not, as some assert, an accession to the FI. It’s a not-so-secretly welcomed affront and a huge game changer.

  36. And so many women hate that they love it. Scares the shit out of the trolls, because they know that if we all keep talking and improving, it could very soon be coming to a theater near them. As long as you make women ‘feel,’ and foment stimulating internal girl-world drama in them, they truly belong to you—whether they admit it or not. Watch what they do, not what they say.

  37. @FuriousFerret – There is something distinctly post-babyboomer about Charlotte, at 52 myself I can feel it in her speech. Indeed, my generation of women are a wreck and many young women – my daughter for example – look at their mother’s as negative examples, something not to be.

    I wonder, do you think she gets at all how masculine she is? How unattractive her tone and attitude is? No, not so much. Interestingly, the “20 year olds” she seems to believe are her duty to defend don’t give a fuck what she has to say. In fact they laugh at her. One is left wondering if she cares the same for a 20 year old guy getting picked up by a “cougar”, lol.

    She is one hot mess, isn’t she? More to come.

  38. @Charlotte – You seem to be gagging for my hot, sticky “fusillade” of hate or anger – open up, bitch, let me shoot it own your throat, lol.

    You seem to suffer from the same problem as Insanitybites, and even GWADT, who unlike you and Insanity is actually a nice person (I don’t hate you GWADT, I don’t even dislike you – but these two? Uggh, such ugly people). That problem is that you presume far too much. You also generalize based on comments made here far too readily. For example, I socialize with women a lot. I like women and have little conflict with them no. It’s not an issue in my life. But I don’t tolerate cunts, and Insanity is a cunt. She came blazing in here denigrating men – I don’t have to take it her or most women from anymore (in work settings or family settings I don’t get into such conflicts as I’ve already decided that keeping those social settings tranquil is in my interest). Interestingly, this seems to be vastly improving my relationships with women who actually give a shit about me. The rest? And here’s where your ego comes in – why do you think we’d give a shit what you have to say?

    But you are funny. Having a blog called “Stupid Girl”, hmmm, am I detecting a pattern here? Insanitybites, – well you seem stupid and her blindness and inability to process reason could be seen as a form of insanity. The two of you are so obnoxious and self-righteous and preachy, yet you don’t get you lack any standing here to lecture us as you do or how badly you yourselves come off.

    In masculine social settings, credibility and value are earned by demonstrating real value, not shrillness. Commenters here have to earn their credibility over time, and such cred here is usually about providing real value to men in terms of insights. We also react to real vulnerability from men who many times have never shared the thoughts they share here with anyone else on earth. It’s not just another blog, something special is going on her and it’s all about men. It has no need for female participation. and in fact benefits men by having a male only vibe. While Rollo enforces no commenting rules, this is a “safe space” for men.

    We also have intellectual dialog and engagement with each other that is at times quite deep and profoundly helpful to many of us here. Sure, we bat each other about – that’s how men do it. We correct each other, but rarely hate each other. We understand that the group is the way we all learn, that none of us can really get through all this alone. It’s not a blog, it’s a community where amazing shit is happening. For men, by men – without the need for or interest in women’s participation.

    You and Insanity reduce that all to anger. As though all that goes on here is men spraying vitriol and bitterness around without any cause or purpose. It’s amazing what women will dare tell me. You speak dismissively about men who’ve been through divorce and the loss of their families, shaming them for being angry. Hey, CUNT, how about I take away your family and chew you up and spit you out? How about you shut the fuck up now?

    You see, what freaks you out here is that men can share anger here and be unafraid of being shamed for it. I’m actually less angry than ever, but much more likely to tell some random harpy like you to shut the fuck up. You see, the world women created took “good men” like me and beat the chivalry and romance out of us. I don’t see “ladies” anymore, just females. If they are civil to me, they get the same from me. But If you are nasty, well you get treated like a cunt. Same as I do with men, fyi.

    Even more to the point? What you say matters so little here yet you don’t realize it. We use you as a foil, an expository device, and a living example of all we discuss here. Nobody will ever take you seriously here. Never. All your effort will come to nothing.

    I don’t comment on other manosphere blogs or sites. I’m not over invested in some web identity to aggrandize myself in the way you and Insanity likely are. I’m here because this actually makes a difference for me. What are you here for? To tell me and other men that we are angry? Go fuck yourself. Not all women – just you and Insanity.

    1. @Glenn

      ” What you say matters so little here yet you don’t realize it”

      It matters so little that I swear I’ve gotten about 100 posts both here and on Dalrock screaming obscenities, comparing me to Eve Ensler, etc. And it’s still going on!

  39. @Charlotte – Fucking a 20 year old at the age of 52 is sublime. The last one was recent, and she was fucking willing, lol. In fact, she was blown away by the 2 hour plus extravaganza she experienced versus the splooge and dash or premature ejaculation and cuddling on offer to her from the deformed “men” of her generation. She and the other young women I see seem to appreciate a good, wild, hardcore sex session in which a man takes his time. In fact, I think they are gagging for it. They run into real alpha men so rarely that they’ll go 30 years older to get a taste of it. And your generation trained them to feel free to fuck anyone and everyone, with no guilt, and to openly cheat and do what they want. Awesome, thanks for that. Even if you aren’t a “feminist”, you still demonstrate the outsized ego and sense of entitlement that is the underlying problem, fyi.

    Perhaps part of why it’s so enjoyable to be with young women is how I react to them? Harder, more turned on, more wild – no 38 year old can ever elicit that from me. From their smell (women over 28 develop a dankness that is almost impossible to mask completely, and it gets worse with age) to their softness and sweetness, it’s really so enjoyable. Tight, taught, wrinkle and cellulite free – but most of all, nice and playful, nothing like the horrific harpies of my generation. They see sex as fun, not something that obligates me to them. It’s refreshing and easy and these connections rent to little space in my head. I only wish I knew this when I was younger.

    So be clear, the 20 years olds don’t want you protecting them – they think you are a pathetic joke. Just ask any one of them what they think of their mom’s generation of women and listen. Really listen.

    Older men have been fucking young women since the dawn of time. But a 52 year old woman fucking a 20 yr old man? That’s like a unicorn sighting.

    Which brings us to your real problem with us here, and with men in general for you. You are jealous of us. You wish you were more like us. Deep down inside you are so tired of female social spaces and women in general. I get it, me too. But I that’s your problem, not mine. Fix women, men don’t need your hectoring.

    Last. I’ll tell you what I told GWADT and Insanity. Many of us here want this to be a male space. Could you possibly try and respect that? You have to know your commentary is useless, right? I mean, you get that you have zero positive impact here, right? If you are actually trying to make a difference, you aren’t. So just move along, there are plenty of places where your POV is welcome. Just not here.

    1. @Glenn

      If this is supposed to be a “male space,” why doesn’t Tomassi put up a notice saying, “No female commenters, please”?

      And if you’re having such a great time with 20-year-olds, why are you so miserable? Just asking.

  40. @Charlotte – So pathetic. When we are all telling you that you don’t matter and to fuck off, you listen to that as an indication that you matter. You are just an attention-whore. Got it now.

    And you know my game – I’m not here to dialog with you, I’m here to denigrate you and enrage you, just because it amuses me to do so. My hope is that I can rent some space in your head, as I do with GWADT. What she doesn’t realize is that my victory came when she actually asked her son “Who runs our family, Daddy or Mommy?” That means I’ve gotten to her. And I actually like her…

    You? My goodness, one probably has to go way back to your relationship with your father, and your mom’s relationship with her father to start to sort out the crap that runs you around, it’s very childlike for sure so I’d look there first. I think you are still seeking Daddy’s approval but we won’t give it to you here. You probably pull this obnoxious shit lots of places in your life, confusing any attention with praise, I bet.

    I have a suggestion for you. Go to 10 people in your life – family and friends and do two things. First, ask them if they feel heard and respected by you? Second, tell them you want to give them a chance to say anything they want to say to you and that no matter what it is you will not be hurt or vengeful. I dare you. Bring a box of kleenex…

    You have so little self awareness coupled with boundless belief in your own bullshit, Charlotte. It’s a dangerous combo…

  41. @Charlotte – I’ll play a bit because I’m bored. I’m in the midst of an existential crisis. After dealing with a lifetime of sorrow including the death of my mom at 11, endless physical and emotional abuse from my insane father, abandonment by a stepmother, divorce by a wife who moved in another man and cut me out, and then becoming very ill and then 2008 hit, kind of rolled over and gave up. There was more to it, but suffice it to say once I became physically ill I really was jarred.

    Upon digesting the many truths discussed here and in the manosphere, it became clear to me that at some level I considered myself a failure due to my recent challenges. You see, I had internalized at a young age that my value was to be of service to women, yeah? And having lost a wife to another man, and then a daughter who was intentionally alienated from me by her mother, I could only conclude that I had failed. But you see, in reality I was a dedicated, good father and husband, I was just dealing with female hypergamy, and in that POV, men are disposable – a family tradition for my wife and her mother. Same from you, I can tell it by your tone – you are already probably already concluding that I’m whining. You don’t actually give a shit what it was like to be alienated as a Dad after dedicating myself to my daughter for 20+ years. I know, every woman I’ve ever known, even those who claim to love me have demonstrated that to me that they don’t care about my suffering.

    You want to know what would be the real surprise for someone like you, Charlotte? Men care. When I open up to men and discuss the grief of my daughter turning on me, they are interested. They get it. They don’t hear “whining”, they see a human being. They see a man who fought valiantly – and got his ass kicked anyway. They see a man struggling to get back up once again to rejoin the fray. They are cheering me on, but you? Your tone when discussing that guy who killed himself says it all – I think you’d find it a better story if I don’t get my ambition going again. I think you’d rather sneer at men, that’s what you put out there, Charlotte.

    Yawn, being shamed by women is just looks funny to me now. And I’m doing this intentionally, Charlotte – you see, I’ve got your number. I told you that tale of woe to excite your desire to shame me, to call me a whiner, to demonstrate how any real show of vulnerability from a man sickens you viscerally. You might also notice how you don’t bother to engage your conscience and ask why. You just know it isn’t how you want men to be, and that is enough for you. Message received, and fuck you very much.

    Why does that need to shame men arise? Why do you enjoy taunting us so much? Why do you want an emotional reaction from us? I’m here trying to have a serious conversation about finding my motivation again, and other serious topics in my life. What are you here for? Exhibitionism?

    1. @Glenn

      “I told you that tale of woe to excite your desire to shame me, to call me a whiner, to demonstrate how any real show of vulnerability from a man sickens you viscerally.”

      Actually, I feel sorry for you.I know this will trigger another effusion of nastiness from you, but it’s true.

  42. Badpainter
    May 29th, 2015 at 4:45 am

    They in reality hate that no amount lipstick conceals the pig, they hate a message that says women ain’t special.

    It is not just they. It is also she. I can’t tell you how many times LTR has said to me – “Why are you always talking about them?” I dread game her all the time. Intensely. “Why aren’t I special to you?”

    And in my mind I think – because honey, when things get difficult you will abandon me without a second thought. Because you won’t commit. Dread game is how I keep you committed and as long as you are committed so am I . Because the children.

  43. Glenn
    May 29th, 2015 at 5:57 am

    My 24 yo daughter is as feminine looking as they come. At least a 9.5. But the personality she has adopted is so masculine. I advised her to find a strong man and surrender to him. She hated hearing that so much that it is now off limits as a topic of conversation. But I can tell it is gnawing at her.

  44. @M. Simon – When I go to your blog i get redirected to a bizarre ad page. I think you have done something weird with ads on your site. When the sidebar with your email comes up, that’s when it forwards to the next page.

  45. @Glenn,

    Clap! Clap!

    Oh, sorry…was that a little ‘nasty’ for you ‘ladies’? Well, appeals to logic, facts and reason seem lost on you, and Glenn entertains foolishness far less than me. Based on recent exchanges, he appears much the wiser.

    Whether sincere but deluded or sniveling and deceptive, the end result seems to be critics coming have no capacity or inclination for introspection and reflection, no matter the approach.

    I tend to assume, starting out, that the average detractor coming here can be reasoned with, that reason has a universal appeal, as does shame. I assume that when confronted with facts and logic that substantially erode your beliefs, that challenge them, you would feel ashamed in holding to those wrong beliefs, much like an adult still believing in Santa Clause.

    I tend to believe this even of the SJW chodes and agenda driven lackies that come in here, all aglow with their self-righteous fervor. I just assume that despite their cult like beliefs, despite their revolutionary ardor, basic shame when shown how in error they are would demand reappraisal or at least retreat.

    But no. Even if shamed, if shown to be a fool, they retreat and return under a different name to peddle the same nonesense.

    One would think being a student of history, as one who knows to the lengths ideological fanatics will go for their beliefs, I would shed that, particularly on the Internet, where keyboard activism means never having to confront the real world.

    Maybe it’s optimism lurking beneath my cynicism, or maybe it’s merely mirroring; I have a sense of shame and embarrassment and a conscience and I just assume everyone more or less does as well. I guess that as naive a belief as that is, it is more comforting a thought than believing there are so many pseudo-sociopaths running around.

    But then, I have to remember that Red Pill thought is not about comforting thoughts, it’s about what is true, as ugly as it is at times. And the truth is we have an infestation of little sociopaths.

    You were apologizing a post or two ago, Rollo, about using the Matrix analogy so much. I think it still fits perfectly. I think one has to view much of the childish denial of facts detractors demonstrate here as fear, abject fear. Morpheus warns Neon that people will fight him tooth and nail to keep plugged in because reality is just too frightening, too alien.

    That fits perfectly with what we are dealing with here; people who want to preserve the lie either because it benefits them (the AI and the FI) or because they are afraid having to live without it.

    In short, as Morpheus warns, both have to be considered the enemy. I am truly getting that now and for the simple reason that it makes clear who and what you are dealing with; people who do not have your best interests in mind but the worst; people for whom is nothing is off limits (doxxing, lying, deception, etc) in their attempts to control you.

    It doesn’t mean getting all angry and pissed at them, it doesn’t mean getting ready for open war (although one wonders how far they will push).

    It means keeping in mind who you are dealing with, and to what lengths they will go.

  46. Huh…

    Strange how ‘Charlotte’ has time for little jabs at Glenn, but NONE for answering any of the numerous legitimate questions ‘she’ was asked here about ‘her’ beliefs and assertions.

    Almost as if ‘she’ has no real capacity to do anything but snipe and vomit out talking points.

  47. @ M. Simon

    I wonder if enough men practicing dread actively with their women, and passively with all women might create a sort immunity to the worst excesses of the FI. Sort of the way the fusion of church/politics/media/academy/feminism/created a nation of geldings without having to ever use a knife.

  48. @ Rollo (always), YaReally(always), Diplomat 2.13 – epic post, SunW, Glenn, Jeremy, Rugby, Simon, Badpainter, and other regulars…..fuckin awesome shit.

    I love this place. It heals and inspires me no end. I read every post and every comment (by those that matter and add value to me).

    CharlotteA/Insanebites/MYG/chocbut/droid etc – simply serve to enforce our RP POV. Stay with us bitches, I lol very hard.

    Me, I’m having fight (masters boxing) no.2 tomorrow night. Already gamed the 20 something ring girls – thank you TRM (and CH).

    I liked Roosh…I’m disappointed there is a rift,

  49. “Almost as if ‘she’ has no real capacity to do anything but snipe…”

    I am curious about his myself. What would she have us do? I suspect like most she’s all criticism and zero construction. I do get sense she’s displeased, as if her emotions are guide for us. Reminds me of discussing social/politcal issues with my grandmother; sincere, well intended, but out of her depth and didn’t really get it. At least Grandma made excellent cookies.

  50. @ Sun

    Wing chun is that UFC type cross training. . . . I have a friend that’s into Muay Thai. He’s a beast. . . . . those guys are the baddest dudes on the planet. . . sept maybe hockey players. . . . or rugby players. . . . okay football players, (not all they’re such specialist.)

    “I’m strong, the reason I don’t bruise the same is that I’ve taken the beating over and over again”.

    (Note to self: don’t make Sun to angry.)

  51. Badpainter
    May 29th, 2015 at 9:29 am

    When you get them reacting to fundamentals all their beliefs fall away.

    You see this in the typical “I went after a bad boy and I’m really sorry I let you girls down – but I loved it.” You can find these on the ‘net frequently. Guilty pleasures.

    Yes. There will come a time when they WANT to return to a semi-traditional marriage. And it will be the lonely old women who push it. Real reality doesn’t start setting in until the late 50s.

    The question that will be asked – “what do we have to do to make men produce?” And the old time religion – I really like the Jewish idea of enforceable marriage contracts, ketuba – will come roaring back.

  52. @Seraph

    Both Glenn and Charlotte exhibit an important similarity and it binds them….

    They both have an overwhelming desire to be heard and recognized. Glenn in his lengthy prose, and Charlotte in the quick hits of snark pointed into who she knows will giver her the narcissistic supply she craves. Incentives.

    My good man, you now know how a BPD Chick selects and picks her (very willing) victim.

  53. I believe we do, the sexes live in a kind of symbiosis, so yes “good game,” must be pro-woman because to be pro-woman is to be pro-man.

    lol, they can’t even state it unqualified. They can’t even state that male goals are important in their own right, it must be qualified as contributing to what women want or else it can’t be said. God but some women have an irrational fear of men.

  54. M. Simon – “I really like the Jewish idea of enforceable marriage contracts, ketuba – will come roaring back.”

    Yes, because if desire can’t be negotiated everything else sure as hell should be.

  55. ” . . .it must be qualified as contributing to what women want . . .”

    Man up and marry those hos.

  56. Badpainter
    May 29th, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Yes, because if desire can’t be negotiated everything else sure as hell should be.

    Cogent. And well put.

    Women wanted to be free of everything including obligations. They will come to find out – after much pain – that it is not the good deal it once seemed.

    The fact that we are being flooded with FI here is proof of what a threat reality is. None the less no amount of flooding can deny it.

    The same goes for things like profit. Socialists can denigrate it all they want. And yet without it not even socialists can survive.

    1. @Badpainter
      “Up thread Vulpine has layed bare the his new reality of refusing to take on the taming of shrews. Only those who arrive qualified for his life will be permitted. There is no longer any taking big chances that differences can be worked out or that love conquers all. He will live alone before enduring a sacrificial support role.”

      Love the exposure of this deeply. I connect in the sense that is what I am doing now.

      “They fear a world where they might have perform for men, any man, in any manner that they expected of us.”

      Oh no! A table has turned…
      It will all work out
      https://m.soundcloud.com/dustinonline/sets/bedroom-covers

      @The Diplomat
      “As long as you make women ‘feel,’ and foment stimulating internal girl-world drama in them, they truly belong to you—whether they admit it or not. Watch what they do, not what they say.”

      Yeah another thing to go back over. Better world better attitudes.

      @Glenn
      “I have a suggestion for you. Go to 10 people in your life – family and friends and do two things. First, ask them if they feel heard and respected by you? Second, tell them you want to give them a chance to say anything they want to say to you and that no matter what it is you will not be hurt or vengeful. I dare you. Bring a box of kleenex…”

      All that equals a family reunion.

      @Seraph
      “It doesn’t mean getting all angry and pissed at them, it doesn’t mean getting ready for open war (although one wonders how far they will push).”

      Nature just learn from nature move out in nature.

      @Tilikum
      “They both have an overwhelming desire to be heard and recognized. ”
      No that’s also a serious issue with me holly hell that’s huge part of my problem.

      comments
      @Jeremy
      In my environment being open about dream s and ideals was always attacked I grow up around women and realized that just being able to think about anything other than myself was a suicidal coping mechanism. I love my family for pointing out to me that as much as I think I can pursue my own goals and desires. I am no island. I use rugby to expose brutal violence and team work. I enjoy a visceral aspect to violence that comes from always being force to deal with it. It humbles me to be around women who can just see me well enough to not place me in their timeline of interest but see that I have my own already.
      I am the harshest version of who I want to be. I am my own inquisitor and that brings elements of a self loathing quality I spend time in nature getting over.
      Comedy is important comedy is an escape that Shakespeare used with a force of immortality because we relate to are own faults and misfortunes by observing the callous jokes in others behavior.
      My goals seem to always be threatening if I am open ahead of time about them. So I keep it to myself. I looked in the mirror today and feel in love with myself for accepting the fact that I simply didn’t understand the motives of many who caused me some hard mental anguish to deal with.
      I will always attempt to be decent with the actions of people who have buchered me harshly.
      But I am not as angry. I really want o ask my dad into a boxing match to impose back some of the hits put on me but maybe that’s just refueling the negative emotions?
      Going for a run. After I mow the lawn.

      Show me a hero, and I’ll write you a tragedy.
      F. Scott Fitzgerald

      @M Simon
      “The same goes for things like profit. Socialists can denigrate it all they want. And yet without it not even socialists can survive.”

      When I go to France which is a country such as that. Growing up I couldn’t tell much of a difference It becomes more and more apparent what that means In a sad profound way.

  57. @kfg

    I can openly acknowledge the existence of hypergamy. I can openly state why it is both necessary for women, and actually beneficial to humanity at large while being potentially devastatingly evil for uneducated and exposed individual men. I can do this without reservation. I can do this mostly because I’ve learned this from blogs like this one.

    But when women attempt to express the sexual balance that we have? Oh no no no no, nothing of maleness can exist unless it serve women.

    I’m left with the conclusion that since I can’t find a woman who can express human sexual conflict without bias, frankly I should never listen to what a woman has to say on the topic because she is incapable of conceiving of the other side of the coin. She is incapable of honestly evaluating the perspective that other human beings might have and recognizing that some things that might be frightening to an individual woman might actually be beneficial for humanity at large.

    This is why we can’t have nice things (i.e., skinny pleasant women).

  58. Jeremy – “This is why we can’t have nice things…”

    …like:

    male only golf courses, social clubs, gyms, workplaces not hostile to men,
    academies of learned scholarship that focus on logic and reason first and only.

    *sigh*

  59. @seraph

    “Almost as if ‘she’ has no real capacity to do anything but snipe and vomit out talking points”

    That’s because she is posting for the feelings. See above, she laughs, she is sad, she is cross, she is forceful, she is “caring”. To actually put all those feelings aside, and debate the intellectual points, not in her wheelhouse.

  60. @ M Simon

    “There is a big push on at ECN – I used to write for them – to get more women in STEM. It will not work out as they hope.”

    It’s okay to have women in the Sciences. Just as long as they don’t lower standards or make special dispensation to do so.

    Fuck Social Engineering!

    1. @70’sAntihero
      “It’s okay to have women in the Sciences. Just as long as they don’t lower standards or make special dispensation to do so.

      Fuck Social Engineering!”

      I grow with that even when I was special Ed. Not sure how to get passed most of unless I meet Better examples in person.
      Or acknowledge it and move on.

  61. @Charlotte – I don’t engage in “efusions of nastiness” blindly. Do you not see that? Great, you have some empathy for what I’m going through. Welcome to the human race – than why did you dismiss all the men here as whiners? You can’t have it both ways, you supercilious quim (love that word, Rollo).

    How about the rest of the men here? Why do you think running in here telling us all to stop hating women and being so angry is something that is warranted or a contribution? We are men trying to grasp onto a rapidly changing social reality which has denigrated and shamed us and used us. You can claim that makes us like feminists instead of listening to what’s so for us. So when you flap your gums here, I really don’t care much. Sure I’ll take some cheap shots at you to try and shoo you away like some annoying fly, but I won’t engage you substantively – you have no substance to grab onto.

    I woke up from my slumber and realized my commitment to being a “good man” made me a sucker. I never called a woman a cunt until 1.5 years ago, until I realized how tilted the field of our society is in women’s favor. Until I realized that women were getting over on me and men, and were in fact often openly denigrating and shaming and suppressive of men and masculinity. And what you women are doing to boys today? It’s national scandal.

    I have no more chivalry left in me. Just honesty and righteous anger at those who fuck with me.

    1. @Glenn

      “you have no substance to grab onto”–I’m the first to admit that!

      I’m extremely sympathetic to plights such as your own. Life dishes out many horrible things, and divorce dishes them out in spades. We’ve got a father whose daughter was alienated from him by her mother right in my own family. It’s an infinitely sad situation.

      But I have no patience whatsoever with the self-pity-filled caterwauling about the foul nature of women in general that abounds in the posts on this site, including your own, coupled with cheap and nihilistic cynicism and blind, undirected, obsessive rage. Yes, women have all the faults that you people mention–hypergamy, self-centeredness, obtuseness on many fronts–I know my own sex quite well. But men aren’t exactly fault-free, either, and their faults have a perverse way of dovetailing with the faults of women so effectively that the results can be amazingly destructive, especially in a society such as our own, where there are few constraints on members of both sexes’ out the basest of their instincts. The huge number of children born out of wedlock and/or growing up without fathers these days is just one example of how seriously things have gone awry.

      So most of the people on this thread sound just plain silly to me, ignorant of the most elementary knowledge of the workings of human society (the guy who thinks that upper-middle-class men acquire mistresses by handing out Skittles is a perfect laughable example). Frankly, they don’t come off as alphas to me–or even swallowers of the “red pill.” They sound as though they’ve simply swallowed another “blue pill”–one that makes them perpetually angry.

      1. @Glenn
        “How could my daughter not grow up and feel privileged and see me as disposable? In this society? So I accept it now.”
        That comes with a deep peace of mind.
        @M Simon
        “Women make babies. We are – almost all of us men – expendable. Not in fact of course. But that is the theory.”
        Still makes me sad…
        @Charlotte Allen
        “about the foul nature of women in general that abounds in the posts on this site”
        I love women Charlotte by never had a place to communicate my observation. I am not angry Charlotte I am frustrated for being told one thing while someone does something else.
        I need help but I am not against women I am for being taking advantage of in a negative way. When I become a farther I will be fierce and strong and I won’t leave. In part I am here because Rollo is the closets person I have found as a friend and a mentor.

      2. @Charlotte, every post you make only illustrates how unfamiliar you are with anything I’ve written.

        Either that, or someone has instructed you to post epithets about the Red Pill being a Chan full of bitter, angry, old men who only complain and never do anything.

        Odd that you suddenly decide to start posting this here after Roosh’s Retromasculinity recruitment drive.

  62. @Tilikum – But I avoid women like Charlotte like the plague and have for 30 years. So yeah, there is that. I meet a ton of women, late 30s and up who throw their pussies at me, but they have personalities much like Insanity and Charlotte, including hugely inflated perceptions of their own intelligence. They offer blather which sounds smart to them, and just run with it. They presume their smarmy, Utopian political and social ideas are universal, while I just laugh at them. Christians too – really listen to most Christian women talk about the world, it’s like listening to a child. At least younger women don’t try to pretend they are so smart.

    But here’s the thing Tilli – your comments to me are just snark too. In case you didn’t notice…

  63. Chivalry – Women/feminism throws out all 14th -19th century conventions and expect men to abide by theirs. Huh!

    Except off coarse one chooses to use it in their “game strategy” to advance ones cause. Then it makes sense. lol

  64. Just remember boys, this is the “new hotness”. Had to share this as a little vomit came up the back of my mouth. Can you imagine a man posting this in an online ad as a sexy pic?
    [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/2gt9fd1.jpg[/IMG]

  65. @Tilikum,

    “Charlotte in the quick hits of snark pointed into who she knows will giver her the narcissistic supply she craves. Incentives.”

    My good man, you now know how a BPD Chick selects and picks her (very willing) victim.”

    Interesting.

    I will have to ponder that…

    Also, in regards to ‘her’ behavior, is there an aspect of it where she digs the ‘nasty’ language? She keeps engaging with Glenn because he smacks her around a bit verbally?

    I mean she claims to be shocked and dismayed by the language, but she keeps coming back for more? Gets her juices flowing as it were.

    Kind of illustrates more Red Pill truths, right? Women don’t respond to logic, but any sort of emotion.

    So, in a way, ‘Charlotte’ may actually be turned on by Glenn.

    Glenn, you ole’ dog you!

  66. Two thoughts about the “new hotness”

    1. Why do you hate us Glenn? I was eating.

    2. What about her mothering traits?

    1. @All, quick PSA.

      Sorry, but I’ll have to postpone the next post until Monday or Tuesday. Mom’s having surgery today and I’m gonna do the good son thing.

      I’ll check in periodically.

  67. @Seraph – Go back though the comments, she came in claiming how she knew she was going to get a “fusillade” from me. She was and is gagging for it. But like most older broads, she’s so fucked in the head by this society that you can’t even get her to submit for more than a couple of minutes.

    You know the type, right? At first it’s easy to make her come but then she makes it harder on herself? Starts bossing you around in bed, but doesn’t get off as well? Constantly has to be put back in line and dread is always in your bitch hand? Yeah, that’s what it would be like with her. And for what? Her wrinkled up old ass?

    Remember, she came in here knowing how I was speaking to Insanity – and I was actually less brutal with her at first because I wasn’t as clear that she was as nasty and vapid as Insanity at first. Guys here think I just chase women out for no reason. Go back and see how I got into it with GWADT originally. It was about the Yoga pants thing, and how I stated that women wanted to prance around in skin tight, thin pants that highlight their asses and curves, but don’t want to be sex objects. Remember that Christian woman from Oregon who made a statement on her blog that she would no longer wear Yoga pants because she didn’t want to excite sexual attraction?

    It was when GWADT denied that she was arousing sexual attraction by prancing around in Yoga pants with her ass hanging out that I began to bear down on her. And she of course reverted to female form – abject cuntery and I cut her down to size accordingly. Women comment here at times without me reacting – they just can’t come in bossing us around or telling us what to do or tearing us down. Not here. Not us. Sorry, no fucking dice.

    But I generally don’t get mad at women any more at all. I’ve even forgiven my daughter – and not just for my own happiness, but because with abject cunts like Insanity and Charlotte lighting the way for young women, what choice do they have? How could my daughter not grow up and feel privileged and see me as disposable? In this society? So I accept it now. I’m back to trying to find my own “mojo” as it were. Trying to write the third act of my life and it’s not easy. But these assclown women? Whatever, taking them seriously at all is the first mistake. And I’m done now.

    Have a nice day folks, I’m offline for a walk and fun and socializing.

  68. @Glenn,

    Dude! I just ate lunch! Urp!

    @’Charlotte’

    “If this is supposed to be a “male space,” why doesn’t Tomassi put up a notice saying, “No female commenters, please”?”

    Because women’s sense of entitlement renders all such requests, hints, demands, etc. null and void.

    Ask Augusta, VMI, etc how trying that worked out. A social conservative would know that…

    Hmmmm,

    Maybe because shrieking scolds like you keep telling him there is something wrong with it?

    Again…

    Facts…Logic…

    Not your friends.

    “And if you’re having such a great time with 20-year-olds, why are you so miserable? Just asking.

  69. @Glenn

    Re: new “hotness”

    Fat, tattooed, and using a MySpace angle. That’s a big ol’ trifecta of NOPE right there.

    Sadly, where I live those are so common that for weeks I forget what it’s like to see an attractive woman in the flesh. And they wonder why guys these days disappear in to porn and video games…

  70. Jeremy
    May 29th, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Sad but true fact of life. Men serve. Women reproduce. Which is not to say men don’t have their own interests. Making things. Women make babies. We are – almost all of us men – expendable. Not in fact of course. But that is the theory.

    None the less. For things to continue on tolerably well – some civilization – some of the conflicts must be compromised. If the life of the Beta is not at least tolerable – it all comes crashing down.

    If there was one thing and only one I could do now – it would be paternity law. Number two on the list would be divorce.

  71. @Sun – Look closely at the hooks on the garter “belt” – if they give the backlash could take an eye out or something, lol.

    I see these absurdly hideous women prancing around all the time now, thinking an outfit makes them hot. Often dying their hair or tatted up and using weird makeup, It’s so fucking disgusting.

    Fyi, that is Charlotte’s daughter…

  72. @Rollo – Make sure you go show her how angry you are at her, as apparently that’s all you feel for women, lol. Seriously though, I’ll have a good thought for your Mom and her speedy recovery.

  73. Hah… to those women who think the men here are just unjustifiably “angry”..

    http://www.vocativ.com/culture/society/the-sex-therapists-of-silicon-valley/

    “Dan” seems at first to perfectly embody that popular object of scorn these days in San Francisco: the privileged tech worker. He’s a developer-turned-manager at a thriving startup, the type of guy you would expect to see dodging protesters at a Google bus stop or evicting low-income tenants in order to build his dream condo. But beyond that veneer of untouchable privilege, there is a soft underbelly. He’s a 40-year-old virgin, and his troubles with women are bad enough that he’s sought out a sex therapist for help.

    While being a virgin at 40 may be extreme, Dan is one of many tech guys who are driving business for the sex therapists of the San Francisco Bay Area. The counselors I’ve spoken with say that anywhere between 50 to 90 percent of their clientele are tech workers, and the vast majority of them are heterosexual men. (Tech employees were estimated in 2011 to account for only 12 percent of workers in the Bay Area.)

    Oh dear, we men are so privileged, even when we earn top dollar for our work (perhaps especially), we get our most primal biological instinct neglected by the women of the western world. This happens to us to the point of openly seeking a therapist to help us out. Healthy mating practices are now replaced with openly hypergamous females in the wild, only seeking alpha. No reason to be angry, none at all, in fact, anger is just a sign that you’re a disturbed individual.

  74. @sillyCharlotte

    “the guy who thinks that upper-middle-class men acquire mistresses by handing out Skittles is a perfect laughable example”

    The point was that the upper-middle-class of both genders often take on lovers, which you decided somehow must mean that “upper-middle-class men acquire mistresses”, and since you were stuck on “acquire” you then got baffled on how Skittles could possibly be used as a bitcoin type payment. Now that’s laughable.

  75. no, no Jeremy.

    The only disturbed individuals are the betas that seek to rise above their station. Nothing worse than the slaves getting all uppity and asserting themselves. It must be a hatred of women, lack of Jesus, too much liberalism, too much conservatism… or…maybe just being asked to eat too much shit. No can’t be that, can’t be any reason that might justify a bit of anger. And nothing justifies words that discomfit women.

  76. @ charlotte

    Concept stealing –

    The ‘Red Pill’ is analogous to the current social climate because is describes the underlining code that drives the interactive software that most are only aware.

    To those that choose to associate just anger with the idea are either intellectual dishonest, reveals a lack of the true understanding as to the meaning or an attempt to redefine the notion. . . .

    . . . And smear those that know better in the process.

    As far as Rollo’s essays go it’s called reading and COMPREHENSION.

    1. @Scott, I posted this comment on your thread, but I don’t know if it went to mod so:

      I saw this on the TV at the gym this morning:
      http://www.click2houston.com/news/body-found-outside-parking-garage-during-storms/33227072

      After that story came the deliberations over the fate of Aurora CO theater shooter James Holmes. Part of that story included the account of about a dozen men who put themselves bodily in front of women (some their girlfriends, some anonymous) to take the bullet.

      Men’s disposability is part of our mental firmware. Evolution or God made / selected for that behavior because it helped species survival and promulgation. This dynamic is simply something women will never have an existential experience of, but they recognize the utility of it and often exploit it.

  77. ” . . . the guy who thinks that upper-middle-class men acquire mistresses by handing out Skittles is a perfect laughable example . . .”

    Don’t worry, you weren’t expected to get the joke, or be invited to the right sort of parties.

  78. “I’m extremely sympathetic to plights such as your own. Life dishes out many horrible things, and divorce dishes them out in spades. We’ve got a father whose daughter was alienated from him by her mother right in my own family. It’s an infinitely sad situation.”

    Expend your sympathy and time on your own family, who, if you really have one, needs it far more than us…… phony concern-troll.

    “But I have no patience whatsoever with the self-pity-filled caterwauling about the foul nature of women in general that abounds in the posts on this site, including your own, coupled with cheap and nihilistic cynicism and blind, undirected, obsessive rage.”

    But you have the patience to continually and repeatedly compose verbose insults such as this for the attention it brings you…phony concern-troll.

    “Yes, women have all the faults that you people mention–hypergamy, self-centeredness, obtuseness on many fronts–I know my own sex quite well. But men aren’t exactly fault-free, either, and their faults have a perverse way of dovetailing with the faults of women so effectively that the results can be amazingly destructive, especially in a society such as our own, where there are few constraints on members of both sexes’ out the basest of their instincts. The huge number of children born out of wedlock and/or growing up without fathers these days is just one example of how seriously things have gone awry.”

    Blah, blah, blah, more verbose generalizing…..just go away.

    “So most of the people on this thread sound just plain silly to me, ignorant of the most elementary knowledge of the workings of human society (the guy who thinks that upper-middle-class men acquire mistresses by handing out Skittles is a perfect laughable example). Frankly, they don’t come off as alphas to me–or even swallowers of the “red pill.” They sound as though they’ve simply swallowed another “blue pill”–one that makes them perpetually angry.”

    I am a little stupider for having read your drivel…thanks so much!

  79. @Glenn

    You get a look at the link I posted up thread with the crowing about the first size 22 “supermodel”? Highlight to me: a picture of her torturing a corset with her immense girth. Why does she even need one if she’s already got “curves”?

    @M Simon

    Re: Females in STEM

    B-b-b-b-but the press tells me the only thing wrong with engineering fields is all the men in them!

  80. I posted this comment on your thread, but I don’t know if it went to mod so:

    Yeah, I don’t know what the deal is there. It happens a lot. Seems the only format that really works consistently is if you have a “google +” account. Your comment is not in moderation, it is probably in nowhere land. Bummer, because I could use the traffic!

    Yep. I am tracking mens disposibility. I think that’s what I continue to grapple with in my posts and thinking. I don’t even have a problem with it per se, (because what can you really do about it?) but the total blind spot most people have about it is distressing.

  81. @Sun Wukong

    B-b-b-b-but the press tells me the only thing wrong with engineering fields is all the men in them!

    Actually, they’re right, but not in the way they think.

    The engineering fields are currently:
    1) A large population of educated and pompous beta males with positions of supervisory and employee review power…
    Combined with:
    2) A large incoming population of young girls in STEM (competent or incompetent, doesn’t matter)…
    Which means:
    3) A whole hell of a lot of inappropriate promotion will be going on, because… beta must give the female what it wants.

  82. @ Jeremy

    Agree – Corporate bureaucracies can be soul crushing shit holes.

    Off coarse it all depends on if a company has a ‘results driven’ philosophy, or is a true meritocracy which can determine it’s ultimate success. . .

    . . . not to say that a companies don’t benefit by receiving special favors from gov’t subsidy and/or over- regulation. . . . gives them cover. . . to a sort of choosing winners and losers as a result of mixed or a less laissez faire system.

    Sometime companies chose to have a more ‘socialistic’ ethos. . . . possibly at its own expense and employee moral.

    Promoting of ‘yes men” and or gender, minority quotas irrespective of qualifications or skill set, can get you a shit corporate culture.

  83. zdr01dz –

    I’ve come back to this site after being away for awhile attending to my business. This most recent post stimulated a lot of responses and I haven’t the time to review all. so, maybe what I’m writing now may have been addressed.

    I’ve barely begun to skim the comments but “zdr01dz”s “motherhood” pussy boy beta white knight painting women as the mother heroin of the human race bullshit really pisses me off, so here I go…

    zdr01dz you have a distorted fantasy perception of women and “motherhood”. you, my friend are living in a fantasy world. If you really think women possess such a pervasive and powerful instinct for what you describe as “motherhood”, then bend over, grab your butt, spread your ass cheeks for “motherhood” and answer the following questions:

    1. Why do mothers commit infanticide the most. Why are most murdered children murdered by their mothers?

    2. Why are women postponing motherhood in greater numbers than ever before now that they have the opportunity to do so?

    3. Why are almost all women in western society “waiting” to become mothers almost until or even after their eggs and reproductive organs have degenerated knowingly risking birth defects? Is this because their “motherhood” instinct is so powerful like you say?

    4. Why are more women than ever not having babies?

    5. If women are so driven by a “motherhood” instinct so powerful it is equal to AF/BB, then why the fuck are any of them on the goddamn pill?

    6. Why do millions of mothers fuck over their children’s fathers just to get access to more money or hotter dick from another male, deny their children access to their father and fill their children’s minds with negative distorted dishonest bullshit about their father which psychologically injures the children for life?

    7. If women are so great at “motherhood” then why are they unanimously brainwashing and conditioning their children to disrespect men and follow the fucked up distorted irrational lies of the feminine imperative?

    8. zdr01dz did you ever stop to think beyond what you have been conditioned to rehearse by the FI and realize that every woman who appears to be soooo nurturing and “motherly” is doing it for selfish reasons? Like that widow of “American Sniper” who is milking his death for every dime she can get?

    9. zdr01dz do you realize the truth about the “motherhood” ideal? That it is a trumped up pile of bullshit contrived to make women appear to be martyrs and “self sacrificing”?

    10. Have you ever wondered why there isn’t such a fuss being made about “fatherhood”? If not then why haven’t you wondered? Don’t men deserve equal consideration?

    11. Has it ever occurred to you that “motherhood” is universally used by women to establish a victimhood identity to facilitate special entitlement? If not, why has this not occurred to you?

    I just met with a woman today to bid a remodeling job. She is 46, has two kids from two different ex-husbands. As I was leaving her home after scoping the job, the last thing she said to me was, “Now don’t forget, I’m a single mom”. She made it very clear right away when we first met that she was a single mom, which has not a fucking thing to do with the construction of the project or the cost of materials and labor. I winked at her and said, “yes. I won’t forget”. And I will not forget. I will mark up the pricing an additional 5%. Why? Because I was Not Born This Morning! I know the job will cost me at least that much more after I deal with her indecisiveness, procrastination, irrationality, refusal to pay after agreeing to in writing, lack of concise communication,…..all the bullshit I would not have to deal with if the contract was with a man or a woman married to a man. I know this from experience, and I have a lot of experience. She will be able to afford it better than a man or a married woman because she has alimony and child support income from two wealthy men she fucked over and her family. I’ll mark it up an additional 5% in the name of “motherhood”.

  84. 12. Why are so many women promoting and supporting abortion to the extent that national laws are written to enforce abortion? Is this because women possess such a powerful “motherhood” instinct?

  85. 13. Why do millions of women gather with picket signs and demonstrate and lobby lawmakers to fund abortion with taxpayers money and write laws denying parents of underage girls the right to know their child is having an abortion? So many women are behind this major issue involving the national legislature of the most powerful nation on earth. Is this because “motherhood” is so powerful it is steering the power of that most powerful nation?

  86. Rollo –

    As an experienced father and observer (I know you’re one to) I was surprised by my wife’s discomfort, confusion, and distortion when she was instantly plunged into “motherhood” by the birth of our daughter. I stupidly assumed based on conditioning that all women are “born mothers”. She like most inexperienced young mothers was instantly faced with challenges and unknowns she was not really prepared to face. No woman can really be prepared to comfortably face those challenges the first time. My wife readily admitted it, so did her sister and friends. They relied on each others experiences, their mothers experiences, books, child rearing classes, etc. Good “motherhood” is something that has to be learned it is not automatic instinct like AF/BB, especially AF.

  87. @ Scott

    I am not privy to the conversation or the thread.

    However, I found the read of about your dream to be powerful and compelling, for I too am a father, (and divorced).

    Story telling is a great vehicle for revealing underling themes that we can’t quite grasp or get a handle on at first blush.

    You could expound on it and write a short story, novel or screen play.

    Are you in a “creative” field?

    ‘Valence and priming’ I have to admit I never quite heard that expression before.

    Eastern thought is fascinating, I am not that versed.

    Some historians speculate that Jesus (the real person) took many of his teachings from Buddhist ideas and principles when he traveled to the ‘east’ the first 30 years or so of his life.

    thanks

    1. @Badpainter
      “The only disturbed individuals are the betas that seek to rise above their station. Nothing worse than the slaves getting all uppity and asserting themselves. It must be a hatred of women, lack of Jesus, too much liberalism, too much conservatism… or…maybe just being asked to eat too much shit. No can’t be that, can’t be any reason that might justify a bit of anger. And nothing justifies words that discomfit women.”
      Damn it Badpainter this post won’t over leave me for the end of my days.

      @Rollo
      “Men’s disposability is part of our mental firmware. Evolution or God made / selected for that behavior because it helped species survival and promulgation. This dynamic is simply something women will never have an existential experience of, but they recognize the utility of it and often exploit it.”

      What comes to mind

      description

      @Scott
      “Yep. I am tracking mens disposibility. I think that’s what I continue to grapple with in my posts and thinking. I don’t even have a problem with it per se, (because what can you really do about it?) but the total blind spot most people have about it is distressing.”
      Scott good work
      http://westernphilosophyeasternfaith.blogspot.com/2015/05/fatherly-anxiety-in-post-traditional.html
      @NBTM
      You had me at
      “motherhood” pussy boy beta white knight painting women as the mother heroin of the human race bullshit really pisses me off, so here I go…”

      “and write laws denying parents of underage girls the right to know their child is having an abortion?”
      When I was 16 my sister called me about her first abortion. Even today I am not a fan of it. It’s always made me ponder man sex vs female sex and child bearing and what goes into that. But still Utah has a huge pregnancy rate for under girls under 18 because they don’t have the pill and abortions aren’t always their and the stigma is huge.
      That’s almost as depressing as eternally realizing how expendable you are.

  88. rugby11ljh
    May 29th, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Don’t let it make you sad. Adopt the warrior attitude. Make your death count. Accomplish something.

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