Making Up for Missing Out

Making_up

Back in February I had an interesting exchange with commenter TuffLove. The conversation focused on his recent singleness due to his wife of 20-some years feeling the call of the Alpha and decided cheat on him, later divorce him and then take up with an even more Beta fellow not long after her ‘fling’ (his story). You can read the whole exchange here if you like, but what TuffLove describes is a textbook example of the Alpha re-interest impulse that defines the Development and Redevelopment/Reinsurance phases I outlined in the Preventative Medicine Series.

Not to rub salt in the wound, but you and your ex’s story is a cliché now. It’s the “making up for missing out” story. Woman marries early, cashes her chips in before she knows better, lives vicariously through her single girlfriends until such time that the “Alpha” she knew at 20 is the hapless Beta she’s saddled with at 39.

Divorce porn media convinces her to bail out and get with the Alpha she’s always missed for all that time. She did everything in reverse – Beta comfort and dependability through her party years, to be traded for Alpha excitement before it’s too late.

I was inspired to sift back through my comments for this conversation, because I was also made aware of a new example of both this phase’s dynamic and the divorce-porn industry that will inevitably find some very fertile soil to plant itself in.

This example comes to us courtesy of Robin Rinaldi, author of The Wild Oats Project. This book and the “experiment in cuckoldry” such as it was, centers on, you guessed it, a 40-something woman who abandons her marriage for one year to bang the random men she was prevented from fucking by being married to her dependable, unexciting Beta husband. Granted, the husband didn’t want children and this contention resulted in him getting a vasectomy – his only act of Alpha with her as far as I know. Her childlessness is of course her go-to victimization card she hopes will endear feminine sympathy for her taking matters into her own hands for a year.

The de rigueur rationalizations and appeals to womanly “self-discovery” are handed out like the M&Ms any Red Pill man will come to expect, but I’m drawing attention to this book because it has the potential to be the next step in the 50 Shades of Grey evolution of Open Hypergamy:

Get ready for “The Wild Oats Project.” And not just the book. Get ready for “The Wild Oats Project” phenomenon — the debates, the think pieces, the imitators and probably the movie. Get ready for orgasmic meditation and the Three Rules. Get ready for “My Clitoris Deals Solely in Truth” T-shirts.

On a social scale it seem like the next deductive next step – blend a justifiable Eat Pray Love narrative with the more visceral (yet unignorable) sexuality of 50 Shades and women will readily consume it. I expect there will be the same hamster spinnings of NAWALT and most women respect their marriage vows, but it still wont wash with the overwhelming ‘guilty pleasure’ popularity that 50 Shades exposed on a large scale.

Writers like Rinaldi and E.L. James have tapped into the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks anxiety rooted in women’s primal insecurity inherent in doubting their optimization of Hypergamy. If appealing to visceral sex sells products to men, appealing to the inherent ‘you-only-live-once’ insecurity of feminine Hypergamy sells to women – and women being the primary consumers in western society, sell it does.

Commenter jf12 related something Ballista posted on his blog recently:

Ballista asks, on his site, “why is divornography (divorce pornography) marketed exclusively to women? Why are there articles in women’s magazines and romance novels for women like Eat Pray Love that glamorize divorce, but nothing of the sort exists or is marketed to men? Why is there no male divorce porn, no stories of men divorcing their obese, aging harpy wives, liberating themselves from their marriage vows, and ending up living happily ever after banging large-breasted 21 year-old lingerie models?”

Can you imagine the uproar? Can you feel the Love yet?

Since the start of the sexual revolution there’s been a social undercurrent of excusable, justifiable comeuppance for any gender related imbalance women have been taught to believe that men are enjoying or benefitting from. Whatever male-specific indignation that would reflect negatively on men becomes a form of empowerment for women – particularly if that indignation facilitates men’s sexual strategy at the expense of women’s. Thus a woman taking a yearlong break from her marriage to bed as many men as she cares to indulge (fully expecting to come back to her dutiful Beta husband afterwards) is cast as an iconoclastic hero for casting off “patriarchal sexual repression.”

Furthermore, it’s only a small step to wipe the accountability of her actions off on the horrible man who wont cooperate by doing his duty to fulfill her sexual strategy. There is no more permanent a devotion to the male sexual strategy than to get a vasectomy and thus deny a woman the ultimate culmination of her own. If you ever want to experience just how close to livestock the Feminine Imperative considers men to be, just try getting a vasectomy before you’re married or without a wife’s explicit and written consent. Legally it’s easier to geld horses or neuter dogs.

It’s important to consider how the doubt over past hypergamous choices effects a mature woman. When a woman has passed through her Epiphany Phase and become a never-married woman into her late 30s the mindset becomes one of self-justification. This is similar to the Kate Bolick effect whereby a woman has very little choice but to live with her past intimate decisions and convert necessities into virtues. She embraces a ready-made empowerment narrative wherein she convinces herself that her choices were the bold, unconventional ones she needed in order to grow.

Next and most commonly is the woman who consolidated on a man’s commitment once she’d become less sexually competitive just prior to 30. I can’t be sure, but it’s likely that Rinaldi falls into this demo, the schedule more or less plays the same.

From Preventative Medicine IV:

Redevelopment / Reinsurance

The Redevelopment phase can either be a time of relational turmoil or one of a woman reconciling her hypergamous balance with the man she’s paired with.

The security side of this hypergamous balance has been established for her long term satisfaction and the Alpha reinterest begins to chafe at the ubiquitous certainty of that security. Bear in mind that the source of this certainty need not come from a provider male. There are a lot of eventualities to account for. It may come from a ‘never married’ woman’s capacity to provide it for herself, the financial support levied from a past husband(s) or father(s) of her children, government subsidies, family money, or any combination thereof.

In any event, while security may still be an important concern, the same security becomes stifling for her as she retrospectively contemplates the ‘excitement’ she used to enjoy with former, now contextually Alpha, lovers, or perhaps the “man her husband used to be”

The Soul-Mate Mistake

Vox had an astute observation about this phenomenon not too long ago:

Alpha Widowhood is a description of an observed behavior, not a cruel invention of the Game theoreticians meant to plague BETA husbands and give them sleepless nights:

“Steve has been with me for the past 50 years and Ron for 47. Neither is the man I am married to, nor have I seen or spoken to either since our love affairs ended in my 20s. All the same, there is no denying they have both messed with my marriage to Olly, the man who has been by my side for the past 40 years.

I found myself thinking about them both as I read recent research that suggested women who played the field before marriage are unhappier with their lot than those who entered matrimony virginal.
Angela Neustatter has often questioned what life would have been like had she married another man

Angela Neustatter has often questioned what life would have been like had she married another man.”

I think it’s important to remember that an Alpha Widow doesn’t even necessarily need to have slept with a man she considered ‘Alpha’ from her past to feel the Alpha Widow effect:

Five minutes of alpha — even worse, five minutes of alpha rejection — can fuck with the heads of even the most desirable women. And continue fucking with them years later. In comparison — if the reports are to be believed — women who divorce beta schlubs after years of marriage pretty much forget them before the ink is dry on the papers.

Sometimes being an Alpha Widow means hypergamic ‘rumination’ over a better Alpha option a woman missed or was rejected by in her past in comparison to the guy she “settled on” for marriage. This is particularly significant if that guy was a woman’s Plan B husband. It’s not just the actual Alphas she banged back in the day, you’re competing with an imagined ideal and the more women are empowered and encouraged to feel secure in exploring their hypergamous options (i.e. correct their ‘soul mate’ mistake) the more you’ll read stories like this.

However, for all intents and purposes my instincts tell me Rinaldi falls into the “making up for missing out” demographic. On whole this demo of women can eventually become the worst self-inflicted Alpha Widows in their latter years. I let Rinaldi explain…

“I refuse to go to my grave with no children and only four lovers,” she declares. “If I can’t have one, I must have the other.”

If you’re wondering why that is the relevant trade-off, stop overthinking this. “The Wild Oats Project” is the year-long tale of how a self-described “good girl” in her early 40s moves out, posts a personal ad “seeking single men age 35-50 to help me explore my sexuality,” sleeps with roughly a dozen friends and strangers, and joins a sex commune, all from Monday to Friday, only to rejoin Scott on weekends so they can, you know, work on their marriage.

[…] One of her oldest friends calls her out. “How is sleeping with a lot of guys going to make you feel better about not having kids?” she asks. Rinaldi’s answer: “Sleeping with a lot of guys is going to make me feel better on my deathbed. I’m going to feel like I lived, like I didn’t spend my life in a box. If I had kids and grandkids around my deathbed, I wouldn’t need that. Kids are proof that you’ve lived.” It’s a bleak and disheartening rationale, as though women’s lives can achieve meaning only through motherhood or sex.

As I illustrated in Preventive Medicine, there’s a root insecurity inherent in women’s Hypergamy. From an immediate perspective this can manifest itself as a battery of women’s psychological and sociological filtering mechanisms for Hypergamous optimization with a man she’d just met, to the husband she’s been married to for 20 years. However, it’s vitally important for men, particularly married and LTR men, to understand that the confines of a committed relationship is never any insurance against Hypergamy in the long-term, and the rationalizations of that Hypergamy evolve as women mature.

Of course the first, best advice is the simplest “just never get married”, but even if you are a single man entering your 50s you will encounter women who’ve experienced (or never experienced) a crisis of Hypergamy and the incessant drive for Alpha optimization of it. If you are a younger man dealing with an older woman (why, I don’t know) you will likely encounter women like Rinaldi and women with similar mindsets as Robin Korth. It’s important to know what you are, or will be, dealing with.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Not Born This Morning
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Everything was fine with me until you came up with…. “Men’s idealistic concept of love is a buffer against women’s opportunistic concept of love. When that idealism is expressed from a Beta mindset women’s opportunism dominates him and it’s debilitating. When it’s expressed from an Alpha mindset it supersedes her opportunism to the relationship’s benefit.” This to me is conceding beta thinking and I don’t buy it even if it is conceded in an “alpha” frame. It contradicts everything you seemed to be communicating previously and what I have experienced. Almost everything you wrote made sense to me and I… Read more »

Jack LeBear
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What is the definition or essence of men’s idealistic love?
If he is in an alpha frame, what is idealistic about it?

It seems to me that idealism about love is a BP beta trait.

RP is reality based, alpha is about getting results in the real world; where is the idealism there?

Asshole
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Take with a grain of salt all truisms including this one. Duplicity, paradox, absurdity are as close as we have come so far in all attempts to reduce any phenomenon to a first cause whether it be in physics, morality or pleasure. We cannot reform the whole without reforming all parts, thus leaving nothing to approve or denigrate. We all speak with forked tongues…..always. And words cannot relate the full depth of experience. Therefore we cannot comprehensively tell ourselves or anyone else what we have sensed. Even if we could think rationally or sense intuitively a single truth behind paradoxes,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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I think if the only view and experience you have of idealistic love is from the perspective of being a Beta, you will assume it is a Beta trait or that it is always toxic. Without having been truly Alpha, there’s no way to understand how it could work out any other way.

I admit I have my doubts here, but I can see a few hazy ways it could work. I know I just won’t understand until I’m there myself, and I’m not there yet so I have to defer to the knowledge and experience of others.

Jack LeBear
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Rollo, I’m going to assume that you’re talking to NBTM because your fem attempt at small dick shaming is inappropriate, unbecoming of you and totally off base. Myself, I’m on testosterone replacement, my T is at the high end of normal for young men, and my muscularity and BF% is in the 99th percentile for men my age. Unlike NBTM, I’m not attacking you, I’m trying to get clear on the concept. as Asshole said “Perhaps this exchange can be attributed to those facts about words rather than a real difference.” IOW, I suspect the lack of understanding has to… Read more »

Jack LeBear
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Sun, you didn’t answer the question either.
Your response looks like beta shaming.

Some of your posts have been wise and insightful. You can do better than this. Answer the fucking question.

Water Cannon Boy
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I’ve also wondered about the possible moment of Rollo getting on a news/talk show. Been thinking about asking him if he’s considered what he’d do for his “kill the messenger” or at least “discredit the messenger” moment. I pictured some host or panel of two or three trying to force focus the discussion on the lack of some degree in some field. Or attacking what he does for a living as some indication of an inability to have any insight. But I know for sure the The Graph would come up. But I’ve always been a little more concerned about… Read more »

Asshole
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“Look, I get it man, I understand your frustration. I know about your cancer and the Eligard injections 3 times a day and the low testosterone for you. I’m sure grasping this is difficult for you emotionally, I can’t fault you for it and I wont run you up the flagpole for it either.”

That was not me that is my uncle.

My problem is idealism…any idealism.

Asshole
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People believe what they want to believe…including me…and my uncle.

Sun Wukong
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@Jack I answered the fucking question with an admission of Socratic Ignorance. I know what I don’t know. I don’t know what it’s like to truly be and experience the world as Alpha nor do most of the guys here, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. Beta shaming? I admit openly that I am a recovering Beta. Do not think that because I point something out as Beta that I am attempting to shame it. I am stating facts: you can’t know something you’ve not experienced. I do know one thing though. I’m certain that women do need men’s idealistic love.… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Rinaldi is just the garden variety narcissist. Par for the course among women of her generation, really. The screwing around, with men and women alike (she sowed her “bi” oats), is really just an expression of her fundamental immaturity. No reasonable person sees what she did as being a trade-off for not having kids. The totally blue pill drenched Washington Post even called her out on that. She basically threw a sexual tantrum in her mid-40s because she wasn’t having kids, even though she decided she wanted them very late. She acted out like a teenager having a tantrum, and… Read more »

Asshole
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The reason it is called ideal is because it does not exist. It will never exist.

James Riding
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@The Diplomat

You need to see Kiss The Sky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiss_the_Sky_(film)

It’s like your first plot but with two friends who fall for the same woman in a three-way. Very redpill truths about women.

Novaseeker
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Living in a college town with an above average population of young women, say 18 – 25, is not representative of America – outside of these college towns, you’re not going to see these concentrated hordes of younger, more attractive women milling about where I think these red pill “theorists” live and derive their theories on female behavior. Ah, tony. Always the denialist. Remember this: two of the leading red pill/Game bloggers in the manosphere — Roosh and Roissy/Heartiste — are guys in the DC area. Not a college town. DC. They are talking about girls in their 20s and… Read more »

stuttie
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“Rinaldi is just the garden variety narcissist. Par for the course among women of her generation, really.” Spot on evaluation that’s consistent with post wall / muttons dressed as lambs all competing for ‘you go girl’ online attention. From the article: “Rinaldi was 44 years old when she experimented with an open marriage. She placed the ad above on nerve.com looking for new lovers.” Yet she drops in the line “Pulling on his pants after our intimate encounter in my Las Vegas hotel room, the cute 23-year-old I’d just picked up” hmm, I really don’t think that would have happened.… Read more »

Badpainter
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Asshole – “The reason it is called ideal is because it does not exist. It will never exist.” I guessing you’re the asshole that scoffed at the invention of the wheel. In 1900 the following did not exist: Airplanes Satelites Anti-biotics internet Punk Rock Abstract Expressionism The four minute mile None of those would exist today without the inspiration and aspiration motivated by idealism. Idealism is the realization that reality sucks coupled with the arrogance to believe it can be made better absent any evidence. Idealism is what drives men to create. Properly tempered it allows for ultimate maximization within… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Asshole

“The reason it is called ideal is because it does not exist. It will never exist.“

It’s called idealism because it’s an ideal to aspire to and possibly achieve. The term you’re thinking of is “impossible”, and I see no evidence of that in Rollo’s statement.

@badpainter

“Idealism is the realization that reality sucks coupled with the arrogance to believe it can be made better absent any evidence.”

And if there’s one thing alphas are known for, it’s arrogance and audacity. The two ingredients required for idealism.

Asshole
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I would like to communicate my current thoughts concerning the concept of frame to help illustrate the concept of idealism and how that concept influences us. First it is excellent that “frame” was introduced here. Before, I had not thought in terms of frame, and I honestly appreciate its introduction. I find it very helpful because it facilitates the ability to consider things more objectively; realistically. “Reality” can be a painful bitch, but the rewards of knowing and applying the knowledge sensibly far exceed obscuring reality with idealism. Webster’s defines idealism as: 1. belief in and pursuit of perfection as… Read more »

Asshole
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Bad painter –

None of those would exist today without the inspiration and aspiration motivated by idealism. Idealism is the realization that reality sucks coupled with the arrogance to believe it can be made better absent any evidence.

Idealism is what drives men to create. Properly tempered it allows for ultimate maximization within known constraints while holding out the possiblity of getting around those constraints”

Was it your concept of idealism or the realistic considerations and reconsiderations after multiple failures that brought about those inventions?

Desires and goals are not the same as idealism.

Badpainter
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Asshole – “Any form of idealism (in my opinion) is based on unrealistic expectation.” You say that like it’s a bad thing. But let’s go with that, and your attitude (which sucks and I arrogantly believe can better despite a lack of evidence) You’re saying the French Resistance was a waste of time by that standard. As well the first 999 attempts at incandescent light bulbs. Operation on that basis would leave us with WD12, punch card computers, leeches as medicine. I guess in addition to giving up on women I should give up on painting. Or are you saying… Read more »

M3
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@Just Saying “Doesn’t matter what she has, or has experienced – she will ALWAYS come up with something she doesn’t have and wants.” That’s because in today’s day and age, she’d too comfortable. Her own job, her own money.. society is built around her. Idle hands… bad. Idle thoughts… worse. Back in the day, when survival was at the top of your list of ‘needs’ rather than iPhone jewel cases, women were more than happy with just having it a bit better than the most destitute and poorest of women. Just being with ANY man, was better than being with… Read more »

thedeclineandfall
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i heard about this story on the news this morning. If they were males they would be expelled as bullies; but since they are girls they only get an suspension. Typical in the feminist controlled unniversity system.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/03/16/5-umbc-lacrosse-team-members-suspended/

It was about 19-21 year old girls jealous about more talented 18 year old girls and making death threats. There is nothing more vicious when they form into packs.

Lucien
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I think RT’s identification of idealism as an important masculine trait is one of his greatest insights. I think the best author to read on this is Plato, especially works like the Phaedrus. But the same insights travel through much of, e.g., religious mysticism. The important thing is, men get into trouble when they confuse a particular, living, breathing woman with the ideal, the thing they want to reach through sublime experience. Even in great relationships, I have had to recognize that when I tried to treat the flawed, fallen creature before me as something greater than what she was,… Read more »

Jack LeBear
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We’re making some progress. We defined idealism. We saw examples of idealistic love from a BP mindset and why it is problematic (it doesn’t work): “The important thing is, men get into trouble when they confuse a particular, living, breathing woman with the ideal, the thing they want to reach through sublime experience.” The ideal is that through egalitarian equalism, a man can get a woman to love him the way he wants to be loved which is the way he loves. “Under the new set of books, in a feminine-centric social order, the strengths of that male idealism, love… Read more »

LiveFearless
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An unmoderated comment section can have its troubles. http://therationalmale.com/2015/03/16/making-up-for-missing-out/#comment-92644 The comment included insults directed at all RM readers by its writer. Further, the commenter seems to believe that the “only logical benefit… is financial gain” At this moment, “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” price is less than $10 on amazon.com. At that price for a paperback, there is no significant profit. Though he could charge the high rates I know he deserves for these books, he’s kept the price low. This is not how he earns his living though he’s the most intelligent & insightful person on earth when… Read more »

Jack LeBear
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Is the re-edit of the first book available in paper?

Macbeth
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This one really hit home for me. My story with my ex. It’s hard to imagine anyone meeting someone at 17 and being able to follow through on a monogamous promise for life, don’t you think?

kfg
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kfg
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Most people can understand how the wolf is dependent on the deer. Only a handful ever seem to grasp how the deer is dependent on the wolf.

wildcard21
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Sounds like what happened to me.I was motivated to do better for the long term goals of the family and the betterment of the future as well as the present.My wife(ex now)was locked into a short sighted day to day existence.I was on fire and it scared the hell out of her,mentally she couldn’t keep up.

stuttie
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@ rollo – yeah, but in any wildlife doco, the viewer never wants the wolf to succeed. Nor does the deer ever realize that unless it is caught and devoured, the wolves pups die.

wildcard21
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To further embellish your statement,creativity is only fed by dreams.If you can’t imagine or enlarge on ideas you stagnate.Oh yea,you forgot expressways and air conditioned cars.

wildcard21
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I’m not sure where I fit in between A & B but I tried very hard to fit into the concept of marriage in the 70’s and bow to the man has equal responsibilities in a marriage(concept).Cleaning,cooking,laundry.Sold my muscle car and threw out my car magazine collection.I really tried to fit the mold.I just couldn’t get that far away from being a Alpha.I wanted to be faithful and be a parent.No matter what,the girls at work always looked good to me and when things weren’t going good in the marriage I got back in the game.I went back a forth… Read more »

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@ NBTM-Asshole ” Any form of idealism (in my opinion) is based on unrealistic expectation.” I don’t believe that for a moment. It depends on the mastery and skills of the person (operator). If the operator is able to achieve a goal in a satisfactory way, then it certainly wasn’t unrealistic from the beginning. Your ruminations remind my of the apparently paradoxical personality traits that are the INTJ type (quoted from 16personalities.com). “A paradox to most observers, INTJs are able to live by glaring contradictions that nonetheless make perfect sense – at least from a purely rational perspective. For example,… Read more »

TuffLuv
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“Look at TuffLove’s situation. Yes his idealistic concept of love has burned him, and yes he’s clinging to it still because he’s still coming to terms with women’s opportunistic concept” Yes and yes.. So, I was really conditioned as a patriarch by my father and mother (who was submissive).. as I stated before, I started out a strong natural RP guy. This actually bit me because some of those harsh, tough-love things I did early on, she never forgot, and when she went full tilt, she used them to justify what an “asshole” I am. Example, my proposal to her… Read more »

TuffLuv
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.. to add one more thing..

I really believe that had my wife been fat/ugly.. less capable of capitalizing on hypergamy.. had she had a lower SMV, then she would have stayed where she was, and continued that idealistic frame, despite our disconnect.

So there you have it. Hypergamy. Opportunism. My life = solid proof.

Nathan
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Own book 2. Its great. You must be proud of it.
Well done.

Nathan
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Suggestion for the next post.

How mens idealistic love (sacrificial john 15:13 type) complements womens opportunistic love (me me me type)

SOme way the parasite benefits the host, wolf/deer etc.

kobayashii1681
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@kfg – Well said!

lh
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[OT]: Something to write about?

A Psychological Evaluation of Dennis Hof, America’s Most Famous Brothel Owner http://www.vice.com/read/a-psychological-evaluation-of-dennis-hof-americas-most-famous-brothel-owner-678?utm_source=vicetwitterus

It’s fascinating how women suddenly are so (pseudo-)empathic and caring for the hamster-spun weaknesses if you are only enough of an asshole.
And I wonder if “looking for the special one all my life” – game (of course no girl should ever qualify) would work being a less famous and preselected asshole.

Nathan
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Thank you for the info on pragmatism.

” In light of understanding women’s sexual strategy, it’s important for Men to adopt a mental schema of pragmatism – … you’re really another commodity in hypergamy’s estimation.”

I understand.

Jack LeBear
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Will the 2nd edition of The Rational Male be available in hardcopy in the near future?
I want to buy several copies of both books and I would prefer the improved version of book 1 if possible.

Jack LeBear
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Thanks Rollo.

My son graduates high school this spring and then is off to college.
I want to give him both books.

I’m also thinking of having a talk with him saying that the reason I’m guiding him to RP is because lack of that knowledge on my part led to the demise of my marriage to his mother.

LiveFearless
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“So entrapped are we in our self-expectation and self-imposed limitations that we fail to see that we have always had the keys to our own prisons – we’re just scared shitless to use them.”
― Rollo Tomassi, The Rational Male

quote found at Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/26430071-the-rational-male

Are you willing to use your own ‘social networking’ accounts to post quotes from “The Rational Male” (Volume 1) and (Volume 2) with a link to the paperback versions of these revolutionary books you’ve been waiting your whole lifetime for?

Sun Wukong
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Idealism, at its absolute worst, can become a self-defeating negative feedback loop. It’s particularly noticeable when this idealism is cast on an external agent one has no way of accurately gauging and therefore is has no way of living up to those expectations. This is probably what most Beta guys (myself included) experience as the motivation to discover Red Pill truths. Our idealism turns to cynicism which is further reinforced by learning of the opportunistic nature of female behaviors in love. While minor amounts of cynicism can serve as a healthy dose of rationality and reality, too much can (much… Read more »

LiveFearless
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It seemed surreal now. When I announced the release of Rollo’s new book at a meeting of a group of friends (some have the power to make or break my future in the industry) that I’ve served for years, I was a bit concerned about the consequences. I admit it, my heart was beating rapidly. So here’s what happened: Afterward, there was a long line of people that had come over to where I was standing. Each of them TOOK A PHOTO of the cover art of the new book with their ‘smart’ device (and most of them confirmed their… Read more »

Jack LeBear
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Rollo has a gift for insightful observation of the real world that resonates with the engineer in me. It’s an observable fact that the design and behaviors of men and women from a mating POV are complementary. It’s also obvious from observation that there tends to be conflict in men and women’s mating strategies. It seems to me that complementary design and function, and conflict in strategies are separate issues. Even if there seems to be a paradox, the observable reality trumps mental gyrations about it. Nevertheless, I spent some time picking the topic apart. A complication is that both… Read more »

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@Jack LeBear I was absorbing more and more red pill manosphere ideas when my son was heading to college 20 months ago. I had only vague ideas to instill in him regarding entering a Feminine realm and being masculine with the motivation to make himself great in the future rather than rely on others including his parents to give him fortitude. One thing that helped me inspire him was “The Way of Men” book by J. Donovan. It’s themes of Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honor being traits that define a man good at being a man in a feminine conditioned… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Jack

Yeah, I can see that working as a general rule. Matches up well with the majority of cases I’ve observed.

Jack LeBear
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@sjfrellc

Thanks for the tip.

I’m an INTP. Do you have any insights as to how that might interact with or affect RP frame relationships?

M Simon
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Born Yesterday, You object to: ““Men’s idealistic concept of love…” I dunno. I’ve been training the fm for years and I get from her “idealistic” about half the time these day. It is quite pleasant. I get that it is unnatural. Think of training a dog to walk two legged. The wonder is not that they don’t do it continuously. The wonder is that they do it at all. I got my RP in ’62 at age 18. So I don’t have too man illusions. And those are mostly chosen. And like a garment can be changed for reasons or… Read more »

M Simon
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Jack LeBear
March 18th, 2015 at 3:54 pm

Just read that. Now compare to my March 18th, 2015 at 6:09 pm

Good on ya, mate.

sjfrellc
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Jack LeBear, http://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality (in this link click on the links to the right to explore this type) Here is the long premium profile. http://www.true.co.za/downloads/mbti/intp.pdf The real purpose of these profiles is to maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. Also another benefit is to type your partner and avoid harping on their weaknesses and “give” to your partner her strengths. Go with them as in Roissy’s 9th Commandment of Poon. “IX. Connect with her emotions Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach… Read more »

Jack LeBear
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M Simon,

Did you mean adjusting my strategy or at least behavior to match my woman’s current strategy, or did you mean to try to change her strategy to match what I want to do at the time?

Being into applying knowledge to get good real world results, I’m very interested in knowing how to train my woman.
Do you have a collection of writings on that, or can you point me to sources of that knowledge?

If you don’t have your own essays on that would you be willing to write some?
I forgot what your non-EE site is. Can I find stuff there?

Johnycomelately
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Idealism is an interesting topic, from the psychological perspective it is a Machiavellian tool used to ensnare a person into subservience. It’s effectively an appeal to the idealization of a behaviour that benefits the other, it foments a power dynamic and becomes a tool of psychological control whereby the other’s wants and needs are imbued upon the subject of the idealisation. It can become so encompassing that the subject’s very own psychological state becomes subordinate to the whims of the other. It is effectively a means of psychological control. The methods of coercion are usually shaming, ostracism, threats or casting… Read more »

girlwithadragonflytattoo
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“It takes a Man like Rollo Tomassi to keep such comments of the envious online.
Because the envious are so desperate to discredit truth, I’m buying more copies of the new paperback to give away.
Would you consider doing the same?
Let’s take “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” by Rollo Tomassi to #1 and keep it there.”

I second that… loving reading the book.

wildcard21
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I have to say,I thought that this would be a sight where men helped each other to actually reinforce being a man and to defeat some of the social injustices that we face.Instead I find that you sound more like a whinny little bunch of over consumed literary premadonas.I’m the fuck outta this group.Quite being so self righteous

eric
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eric
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“If you are a younger man dealing with an older woman (why, I don’t know) you will likely encounter women like Rinaldi and women with similar mindsets as Robin Korth. It’s important to know what you are, or will be, dealing with.” Just fucking great. I thought cougars were done with the carousel riding, but they’re still riding it lol. Ill still have competition, though less brutal right? The reason why I don’t approach girls my age is because its harder, and I’m a little awkward and need to work on my social skills. I thought it was going to… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Sounds like you mis-conceived wildcard21. It’s like bad TV, you don’t have to watch. You could just read a Rollo Tomassi essay and skip the comments section. You do realize that 80% of people suck at online intellectual debate as a surrogate for primitive tribal warfare in a now modern society. If you feel like you did in high school as a nerdy fag who wasn’t skilled at a competitive level, you are certainly welcome to take your ball (figurative baseball, football or soccerball) and go home. Heheh: Cypher: “I know what you’re thinking, ’cause right now I’m thinking the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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wildcard21
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I am hoping these commos will stop but I feel compelled to respond.I am way more simple than most of the upper level intellect I see here “Peacocking”.This sight is more about pussy and look how big my dick is than really trying to help men after the onslaught of feminism.So I guess what a “Real” man would say is FO&D.

Jack LeBear
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@ wildcard21

Do you know any sites that try to help men after the onslaught of feminism?

The Diplomat
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The Diplomat
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@wildcard21

Ask yourself: “How can I be better?”

This is the one site I’ve ever found where actual intelligent, informative, helpful, and focused evo-psych/sociological discussion really happens on a consistent basis. Maybe there are others, but I’ve not found them,.

The Diplomat
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P.S. wildcard21

There are a multitude of “rage chambers” out there for you to vent and hear your calcified sentiments echoed back at you by paralyzed and clueless kindred souls.

Go to them. See if you evolve for the better. Then, once (or, “if”) you’ve see the light, come back and kiss this hallowed ground for the astounding fucking singular oasis that it is.

Sun Wukong
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@wildcard21

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/233/260/687.jpg

You came to a site where folks routinely have somewhat cerebral discussions, then bitched and insulted everybody when we didn’t express ourselves through monosyllabic grunts and guttural street talk a la Idiocracy. Here, let me solve your problem for you: read the discussion, stay out of the comments, and go take a remedial English class.

To act like men can’t be masculine and intellectual is to ignore which sex spent most of written history basically inventing the entire fucking concept. Cretin.

The Diplomat
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Amit
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Amit
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@ Sun

Off topic but that Top Gear meme… Another ‘male space’ being disbanded? They were looking for an excuse to shut it down…Im sure Clarkson’s ‘punch’ was blown out of proportion by the media…

Tam the Bam
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Clarkson and his chums are/were the prettiest whores in the BBC’s brothel.
Worth squillions to them. More like he and his co-conspirator producer have augured the forthcoming death of the BBC over the outrageous Licence Fee banditry and their proposed substitute, a massive flat tax on everyone, everywhere, forever (really, that’s how they think).
And/or Murdoch has waved an unfeasibly large wad of tax-free under their noses.

…and (click).. you’re back in the room.

Amit
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@ Tam

Haha that’s one way of looking at it!

Bromeo
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Bromeo
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Top gear is a terrible show, aside from showcasing the latest cars, I cant stand those three pretentious hosts bragging about useless crap.

Mr T
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Mr T
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hey wildcard21 , go back and do what you do best

Sun Wukong
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@Amit If Clarkson is playing this straight, he’s just a casualty of his own over-inflated ego. The BBC are fucking themselves taking him off the air. Angry SJWs were the ones to blow this event out of proportion to get what they want though; they’ve wanted Clarkson’s head on a platter for a while, and he handed it to them with an event that’s unquestionably illegal in any court of law. This isn’t about SJW-ism per se (seriously, I’d expect anybody assaulting their boss to be fired), it’s just that they’re the ones who’ve wanted something like this to take… Read more »

M3
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i think wildcard2 was looking for AVfM and took the left at Albuquerque and ended up here. This place is less about fighting feminism as it is about understanding human behavior and our evolved biological roots. It’s less about right and wrong or moral absolutes and simply understanding the amoral nature of… nature. We understand how feminism has short circuited nature.. we aren’t here to combat it like a bunch of feminists or by trying to produce a ‘light’ version of the feminine imperative. We’re here to understand who we really are and why we are the way we are… Read more »

Joe
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Joe
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You coulda titled the post Making Out, for Missing Up. Would have been just as effective, maybe more.

sjfrellc
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sjfrellc
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“I have to say,I thought that this would be a sight where men helped each other to actually reinforce being a man” This is a site (not sight) that is red pill aware and game focused on inter-sexual relationships based on behavioral psychology and evolutionary psychology. Game principles still apply among an consortium of males who are like-minded. You would be better to understand “Game principles apply to men among men, work and family interactions”. Game applies to all your interpersonal and social interactions. Not just males gaming females. In Neil Strauss’ “The Game” guys got together to learn tactics,… Read more »

Billy Jacques
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It would be awesome if the ex husband reversed his vasectomy and had a child with his younger, hotter partner.

Vulpine
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Vulpine
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Ideals are like “blueprints”. When a man builds a house, he first envisions the final product. Then, based on that “ideal” final version, sets out to plan the construction; to “plot a course based on the ideal (destination)”. Myself, I used my ideals to plot a course to my current lifestyle situation. I was able to use real factors to affect my physical location, and provide myself with a closer-to-ideal situation. The problem with men being idealistic in love is that men, in true Man form, take into account TANGIBLES to make their plans. The folly stems from men attempting… Read more »

Badpainter
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M3 – “We’re not here to push back and be ‘masculists’ or ‘meninists’ or whatever label. ”

Profound.

This an important and subtle point. To become a “meninist” movement would be to follow the same flawed path as feminism does by attempting to define the feminine within a social/political context that is driven not by nature but by a constructed agenda.

Vulpine
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lol@Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Abominable Snowman gif

“Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. My very own Easter Bunny! I’m going to hug ’em and squeeze ’em and love ’em and pet ’em…”

447
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447
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@RM:”The wolf makes the deer swifter, evasive and alert. The deer makes the wolf stronger, enduring and cunning.” This comparision is flawed *today* in a central way: Without natural or social genetic elimination, the selected-for-criteria becomes NOT “good hunter” or “strong wolf”, but “good pussy hunter”. A good pussy hunter is not a strong and certainly no good man. The ages-old popularity of total losers, anit-social men and useless men with the ladys shows that clearly enough. A small, but very important difference. Case in point: Me. Me using game to become a relativly good “pussy hunter” has NOT –… Read more »

Badpainter
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447 – “Defining the feminine within a social and political agenda is a path to power to states or state-like collectives that do that.” Agree. It’s the intentionality of the attempts to define nature and reality in an exclusively social/political context which leads to the problem. Which is why the MRM will fail by itself because it it is force fitting nature into a artificial construct just like feminism. It’s poor attempt to improve nature by reverse engineering. The attempt here to explain what is, whether correct or not, is just a survey of the environment in which all other… Read more »

M3
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sorry, totally off topic but i just ran into this while at work and i had to post it somewhere just for the topkeklels this produced in me

https://ca.screen.yahoo.com/tv-in-no-time-videos/married-first-sight-bride-disappointed-074640156.html

hamster_wrestler
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“Billy Jacques on March 19, 2015 at 12:50 pm

It would be awesome if the ex husband reversed his vasectomy and had a child with his younger, hotter partner.”

Or better yet, it turns out he never got a vasectomy in the first place; he just told her that he did! Alas, I doubt it because that would be too alpha for someone who is clearly Beta as they come.

Sun Wukong
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@M3

Christ how many of these awful “reality” shows featuring clearly broken people are they going to pump out before the public collectively hurls all over the floor having gorged itself on too much intellectual junk food?

hamster_wrestler
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Answer to Sun Wukong: none, because a narcissistic cukter never tires at looking at their reflection.

M3
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Sun Wukong, an idiocracy is a stupidity consumption engine. The less intellect, the easier to consume. It’s been a race to the bottom for serving up shit. I don’t even want to know what ‘society’ will be watching 10 years from now since most people are getting there ‘infotainment’ from retard stations like buzzfeed and mashable with leading headlines like ‘this guy put his finger up the lions bum, you won’t believe how the lion responded!’. The internet was supposed to make us smarter. Instead it gave a majority the freedom to be stupid and freely consume feelings rather than… Read more »

Badpainter
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@ Sun Wukong

Reality TV is just kindler/gentler version of old school blood sport. Since bear baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting, and gladiatorial combat are passé, and illegal, the only thing left is to pit idiots against each other in a fight to the tears.

Liz
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Liz
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I always likened reality television to the days when people would pay an admission fee to go to the madhouse and ridicule the inmates for entertainment purposes. Difference is the inmates now consent to the treatment and get paid for the mocking and teasing…but their reactions are the same.

LiveFearless
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http://imgur.com/fJqV7W3 @girlwithadragonflytattoo “Because the envious are so desperate to discredit truth, I’m buying more copies of the new paperback to give away. Would you consider doing the same? Let’s take “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” by Rollo Tomassi to #1 and keep it there.” I second that… loving reading the book http://imgur.com/fJqV7W3 I’m loving ordering the Kindle and paperback for friends via Amazon Prime. This one is going to a buddy I’ve known for 20 years. You know his voice. Of course he can afford to purchase it, but there’s this ‘magic’ that happens when you buy both the… Read more »

Nathan
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Nathan
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To accurately represent a womans lifecycle, it should be written:
Alpha fucks/Beta Bucks*/ Alpha Fucks

*

Nathan
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Nathan
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* 5 year window Beta Bucks + divorce and alimony provisioning

notalifeguard
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Hey Rollo, you need to watch the Movie “Mud” with Matthew McConaughey, I think everything you write about is pretty much summed up in that movie. Very good film and good lessons in it for young boys. You need to write an article on it.

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