One of the most endemic masculine pitfalls men have faced since the rise of feminine social primacy has been the belief that their ready displays of emotional vulnerability will make men more desirable mates for women.
In an era when men are raised from birth to be “in touch with their feminine sides”, and in touch with their emotions, we get generations of men trying to ‘out-emote’ each other as a mating strategy.
To the boys who grow into Beta men, the ready eagerness with which they’ll roll over and reveal their bellies to women comes from a conditioned belief that doing so will prove their emotional maturity and help them better identify with the women they mistakenly believe have a capacity to appreciate it.
What they don’t understand is that the voluntary exposing of ones most vulnerable elements isn’t the sign of strength that the Feminine Imperative has literally bred a belief of into these men.
A reflexive exposing of vulnerability is an act of submission, surrender and a capitulation to an evident superior. Dogs will roll over almost immediately when they acknowledge the superior status of another dog.
Vulnerability is not something to be brandished or proud of. While I do believe the insight and acknowledgement of your personal vulnerabilities is a necessary part of understanding oneself (particularly when it comes to unplugging oneself), it is not the source of attraction, and certainly not arousal, that most men believe it is for women.
From the comfort of the internet and polite company women will consider the ‘sounds-right’ appeal of male vulnerability with regard to what they’re supposed to be attracted to, but on an instinctual, subconscious level, women make a connection with the weakness that vulnerability represents.
A lot of men believe that trusting displays of vulnerability are mutually exclusive of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of weakness.
The problem with idealizing a position of strength is in thinking you’re already beginning from that strength and your magnanimous display of trusting vulnerability will be appreciated by a receptive woman. I strongly disagree with assertions like those of various Purple Pill ‘life coaches’ that open, upfront vulnerability is ever attractive to a woman.
The idea goes that if a man is truly outcome-independent with his being rejected by a woman, the first indicator of that independence is a freedom to be vulnerable with her. The approach then becomes one of “hey, I’m just gonna be my vulnerable self and if you’re not into me then I’m cool with that.”
The hope is that a woman will receive this approach as intended and find something refreshing about it, but the sad truth is that if this were the attraction key its promoters wish it was, every guy ‘just being himself‘ would be swimming in top shelf pussy. This is a central element to Beta Game – the hope that a man’s openness will set him apart from ‘other guys’ – it is common practice for men who believe in the equalist fantasy that women will rise above their feral natures when it comes to attraction, and base their sexual selection on his emotional intelligence.
The fact is that there is no such thing as outcome independence. The very act of your approaching a woman means you have made some effort to arrive at a favorable outcome with her. The fact that you’d believe a woman would even find your vulnerability attractive voids any pretense of outcome independence.
Hypergamy Doesn’t Care About Male Vulnerability
When I wrote Women in Love and the followups, Men in Love and Of Love and War, I described men’s concept of love as ‘idealistic’.
Naturally, simple minds exaggerated this into “men just want an impossible unconditional love” or “they want love like they think their mothers loved them.” For what it’s worth, I don’t believe any rational man with some insight ever expects an unconditional love, but I think it’s important to consider that a large part of what constitutes his concept of an idealized love revolves around being loved irrespective of how he performs for, or merits that love.
From Of Love and War:
We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.
We want to, so badly.
If we do, we soon are no longer able to.
The concept of men’s idealistic love, the love that makes him the true romantic, begins with a want of freedom from his burden of performance. It’s not founded in an absolute like unconditional love, but rather a love that isn’t dependent upon his performing well enough to assuage a woman’s Hypergamous concept of love.
Oh, the Humanity!
As the true romantics, and because of the performance demands of Hypergamy, there is a distinct want for men to believe that in so revealing their vulnerabilities they become more “human” – that if they expose their frailties to women some mask they believe they’re wearing comes off and (if she’s a mythical “quality woman“™) she’ll excuses his inadequacies to perform to the rigorous satisfaction of her Hypergamy.
The problems with this ‘strength in surrender’ hope are twofold.
First, the humanness he believes a woman will respect isn’t the attraction cue he believes it is. Ten minutes perusing blogs about the left-swiping habits of women using Tinder (or @Tinderfessions) is enough to verify that women aren’t desirous of the kind of “humanness” he’s been conditioned to believe women are receptive to.
In the attraction and arousal stages, women are far more concerned with a man’s capacity to entertain her by playing a role and presenting her with the perception of a male archetype she expects herself to be attracted to and aroused by. Hypergamy doesn’t care about how well you can express your humanness, and primarily because the humanness men believe they’re revealing in their vulnerability is itself a predesigned psychological construct of the Feminine Imperative.
Which brings us to the second problem with ‘strength in surrender’. The caricaturized preconception men have about their masculine identity is a construct of a man’s feminine-primary socialization.
The Masks the Feminine Imperative Makes Men Wear
To explain this second problem it’s important to grasp how men are expected to define their own masculine identities within a social order where the only correct definition of masculinity is prepared for men in a feminine-primary context.
What I mean by this is that the humanness that men wish to express in showing themselves as vulnerable is defined by feminine-primacy.
For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.
Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.
Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.
Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.
“The Mask You Live In” by director Jennifer Siebel Newsom (dual surname noted) is the perfect example of this perpetuation. You have a woman deciding for a larger public in a documentary what the male experience is and then solving the problem (i.e. the tired trope of men needing to get more in touch with their emotions) for men.
Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.
Ironically Newsom is still oblivious to the fact that she can only create such a documentary in an environment of feminine-primacy. No man could produce this and be taken seriously in our contemporary social climate.
It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.
They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.
From The 16 Commandments of Poon:
IV. Don’t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
True vulnerability is not a value-added selling point for a man when it comes to approaching and attracting women. As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it.
Women want a bulwark against their own emotionalism, not a co-equal male emoter whose emotionalism would compete with her own. The belief that male vulnerability is a strength is a slippery slope from misguided attraction to emotional codependency, to overt dependency on a woman to accommodate and compensate for the weaknesses that vulnerability really implies.
I know a lot of guys think that displays vulnerability from a position of Alpha dominance, or strength can be endearing for a woman when you’re engaged in an LTR, but I’m saying that’s only the case when the rare instance of vulnerability is unintentionally revealed. Vulnerability is not a strength, and especially not when a man deliberately reveals it with the expectation of a woman appreciating it as a strength.
At some point in any LTR you will show your vulnerable side, and there’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is the overt attempt to parlay that vulnerability into a strength or virtue that you expect that woman to appreciate, feel endearment over or reciprocate with displays of her own vulnerability for.
A chink in the armor is a weakness best kept from view of those who expect you to perform your best in all situations. If that chink is revealed in performing your best, then it may be considered a strength for having overcome it while performing to your best potential. It is never a strength when you expect it to be appreciated as such.
Re: Ferguson, Yes. Rioting is not the answer to the problems faced by Blacks. But to dismiss those problems as either imaginary or self inflicted is to avoid seeing the whole picture. So let me widen the frame by quoting one of Nixon’s henchmen. “Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman,… Read more »
Nathan November 26th, 2014 at 11:43 pm Very few are at Rollo’s level. But that is not too important. There was only one Einstein. Today there are millions with a deep enough understanding of what he started. All our electronics infrastructure is built on it. So apply the 80/20 rule. About 20% of all men have enough Game to make them interesting to women. It is my opinion that raising that to 25% would start a revolution. Why? Because past about 20% you are getting men who are not naturals but trained. And the newly converted are the most zealous.… Read more »
I agree. Its a Godsend
After all, she said she doesn’t want to know about the others, so you don’t need to discuss it with her.
I disagree.
You must not discuss it with her. But casual mentions along along with hints of “you can be replaced” will make her more interested in you.
The best way to keep one woman is to have two.
Note: I have said something like this to all my sons – in front of the first mate. Who just giggles – but doesn’t deny it.
M. Simon nice point about Einstein
However, I live among blacks… its their own damn fault. They need their own nation and its time for them to sink or swim on their own
I must be one of the three people who haven’t seen mad men…. now I finally feel like a special snow flake
sfcton November 27th, 2014 at 12:49 am Thanks! ==== I understand to some extent. Neither my friend – nor I will venture into “the zone” anymore. Still, I’d like to see what their culture looks like 20 years after the end of Prohibition. Italians got quite a reputation from that first Prohibition. More as a result of where enforcement was focused as opposed to innate characteristics. And then there is the genetic bias towards motor skills vs planning ahead (for winter). Our friends on the left prefer their “blank slate” to reality. But DNA biases each of us. There is… Read more »
Glenn
November 26th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
I just ran across a promo video for Fast EFT and NLP.
https://www.youtube.com/user/HealingMagic
That brought to mind something I had forgotten – how effective NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) is. I use it on the first mate all the time. I give her phrases to repeat. “Mantra” is another name for it. And of course I use it on myself if there is a direction I want to head in that meets internal resistance.
Lily’s “Programming and Meta Programming the Human Biocomputer” is also of some use. It may be out of print.
The women commenters have uniformly claimed to be “vulnerable” to men behaving lowly, powerless, disappointed; it makes the women want to slap the men. This is a weakness of women; an Achilles’ heel; something they claim is inborn and they claim they can’t help feeling obnoxiously bitchy towards a weak man who needs help; similar to females killing the runts of their own litters.
EMDR is another trauma-treatment methodology that was formerly shunned by the medical/psychological establishment, but is now gaining grudging respect owing to good outcomes. A buddy uses it with sexual abuse victims, and he’s establishment (runs a hospital for criminal sex offenders).
It’s not very pleasant though, as it involves returning *directly* to experiences that have been assiduously suppressed for years or decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_and_reprocessing
Women obviously think that their major weapon formed against a man is to tell him “you are not in the category of “man”.” I for one happen to be invulnerable to that denial of my ‘manity. In fact I feel almost victorious when women think it should work against me, and that they’re perturbed enough to bother trying it out. I also wear my nerd badge proudly; I am practically the archetype, the poster child, or rather cover model/centerfold of Boomer nerd. I also feel almost victorious when accused of being too heatedly involved/hyperfocused, or too controlling/bossy. But I think… Read more »
JF12, perhaps (the contempt is certainly real). But don’t you also think that there is a competitive aspect to them? As though a man, venting or whining or expressing weakness, is competing for airtime? As though the very fact of having “feelings” is proprietary to the woman? So if a man betrays himself and his feelings, he not only threatens the stability and safety of the couple, which destroys his appeal as a man. He also is stealing from a woman’s perceived emotional privileges. It’s just another Jenny Holzer “Protect me from what I want” moment. In this respect I… Read more »
I notice, reading around the past couple of days, that the manosphere has not yet picked up on this report: Perilloux, C. & Kurzban, R. (2014). Do men overperceive women’s sexual interest? Psychological Science, DOI: 10.1177/0956797614555727 http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/11/20/0956797614555727?papetoc Perilloux and Kurzban perform a sequence of experiments firmly proving that 1. women *deliberately* underreport their own sexual interest 2. men *correctly* know that they women are lying 3. the men feel forced to behave as if the women are telling the truth Basically, the men are right and have always been right (all previous studies can be reinterpreted as men being “accurate… Read more »
@ M Simon Robert’s given seminars at Habilitat in Hawaii, a long-term residential rehab center for people with substance abuse addictions. Faster EFT integrates NLP into its framework, which is one of the great things about it. I’m slowly working on becoming a Faster EFT practitioner, and two books that go along with the training package are “The User’s Manual for the Brain, Volume 1,” (‘the complete manual for neuro-linguistic programming practitioner certification’) and “Monsters and Magical Sticks: There’s No Such Thing as Hypnosis?” The latter is an especially accessible and entertaining read, and I personally found it very enlightening… Read more »
@BV re: “But don’t you also think that there is a competitive aspect to them? As though a man, venting or whining or expressing weakness, is competing for airtime? As though the very fact of having “feelings” is proprietary to the woman?” Yes, very much so. To each woman, every other woman is either part of the thundering herd/tribe, or a outgroup Samaritan to be robben and beaten and left for dead. So maybe women think that by berating a man for usurping the woman’s role of feewings, they are ensuring he will either (1) Woman up and line up… Read more »
Another in my poorly labeled catalog of women’s vulnerabilties.
10. Women are hypersensitive to being accused of being ruthless runt-killers. They will always claim it was a mercy killing.
@ Buena Vista “It’s not very pleasant though, as it involves returning *directly* to experiences that have been assiduously suppressed for years or decades.” This is exactly what Faster EFT does. One of the sayings is “Memories buried alive never die. They just show up in a bigger pair of shoes.” In sessions I’ve seen of him working on people, he reminds them that “the bigger they can make it, the faster it’s going to go.” The general structure is to ask them how they know they have the problem — what are they feeling, what pictures are they seeing… Read more »
JF12, having abandoned a lifelong habit of seeking approval and validation from women, I don’t really care at all if I’m called names by them — and magically, the name-calling, insults and man-up crap has disappeared. Laughing at these imprecations is actually a terrific seduction technique. Straight red-pill protocol and wisdom, there. At some point we either own ourselves — become sovereign — or die. But I have lifelong habits and coping mechanisms that remain hard-wired upstairs. I induce my own vulnerabilities; there’s a side of me that seemingly prefers them, since we all gravitate to the familiar under stress.… Read more »
–Now to bring that back on topic– FI conditioning plays a huge role in all of this for us as men. We have picked up a lot from what women THINK we should be like as men. Seen it in the media. We have grown up with our masculinity being defined by women living from a feminine-primary context. jf12 asks what we think our vulnerabilities are as men. Honestly, I struggle to answer that. Because I don’t know. I still feel like I have to reclaim my identity from what was taken away from me through what is basically brainwashing.… Read more »
Vox Day offers 12. Women are vulnerable to impositions of authority. “if you have a female superior, one of the best ways to ensure your job security and become a pet employee is to let her offload the decision-making onto you. Give her an inch and the chances are very high that she’ll take a mile and thank you for it.” This is my shtick! I have had a number of fine female bosses who look out for me and treat me like … like … (blush) a man, and this is exactly how I manage them. On the other… Read more »
Softek, my experience with EMDR is that it leaves one physically exhausted with the sensation of one’s skull being cleaved wide open. I don’t recommend it to people who have to be functional and uphold their responsibilities. At the time I was running a venture-backed start-up with 100 employees, and my ex-wife was demanding that I do this therapy as part of our marriage counseling process (the female therapist, as it turned out, was privately reporting to her on what I thought were confidential experiences, and this all became fodder for her divorce petition, terminating a 20 year relationship). I… Read more »
re: “it reveals their elemental nature, their nature at age 10.” 10? I probably peaked at 10. My first “girlfriend” was my orally-fixated younger sister, and by age 10 I had long since taught most all the neighborhood girls, a lot of them my cousins or other kin, how to sho-nuff kiss. Real kissing, for realz. Kissing strangers was forbidden, but somehow relatives were a loophole. I also managed to be the designated groom for a least a half dozen drawn-out play weddings, consummated in applauded kissing of course. Other loopholes abounded. At elementary school I was sternly instructed not… Read more »
What a great post and the replies have been a great overall read. @Realitie & Crazlittle Your posts and insights were helpful in understanding your perspectives on the subject of overt displays of male vulnerability. @jf12 Women’s most lucrative currency is their sexuality. This is why most women are in provisioning relationships before they age out. Stand up a women in her 20’s and a woman in her 30’s to any man and he’ll prefer the former. I recall a saying, “…a man wants two women in their 20’s than one woman in her 40’s.” Furthermore, I personally feel women… Read more »
@ BuenaVista I haven’t tried EMDR, but I do know from using Faster EFT on myself and other people that while being tired at the end of a session is normal, there should definitely be a feeling of having a giant weight lifted off of you. Just from a cursory search on EMDR, one major difference I see is that in Faster EFT, you don’t try to hold the sensations and memories of the negative experience as you tap on it — you feel them first and associate to them first, and the tapping is intended to take you *fully*… Read more »
strauman sez “Ironically, logic drives women mad.” Hence, maybe
13. Women are vulnerable to logic.
Hold on, hold on, I know what you’re gonna say. I didn’t say women respond logically to logic.
jf12 – “13. Women are vulnerable to logic.” If I may… 13. Women are vulnerable to properly framed logic. Frame is everything. Poorly framed logic will crumble before tears and feelz. I would add that women are especially vulnerable to properly framed emotion. The conscious logical framing of emotion serves to create a narrative that supersedes frame by confining her emotions to an intentionally structured and externally controlled narrative reality.This reality, being built of emotion, can be self reinforcing. Being a narrative construct it frames everything she brings to it. The only way out is to choose to deny that… Read more »
Brown Thursday sales …
I don’t like the use of the word ‘love’. It seems to be used to mean everything and anything. Esther Vilar said something that resonates with me in the last chapter (titled What is Love?) of her her book,The manipulated man : «He (Man) fights for his life and calls it love […]. She, too, is fighting for her life and she, too, calls it love. They need one another, in fact, and it seems therefore that they share one sentiment» Showing vulnerability is a tool; not a strength. See Law 46 – Never appear too perfect. Outside of that… Read more »
One testimonial on Faster EFT and PTSD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZSKQs0e9pc&feature=youtu.be One reason I keep bringing Faster EFT up here is because it pertains DIRECTLY to vulnerability. Notice the last part of the title in that video: “Now we have the tools.” I believe that a major pitfall is wanting to use women as our ‘tools’ for our healing. I have accepted that that is never going to happen. Nothing I can get from a girl is going to heal me. I can have fun. But it isn’t the cure for everything behind the vulnerability — so there’s no point expressing it to… Read more »
With the Red Pill, men know women better than women know themselves, and men know women better than women know men.
Slowly but surely accumulating women’s exploitable weak points. 14. Women are amazingly susceptible to kino. You could not possibly believe it unless you tried. If you’re going to bother to sin, then sin boldly. 15. Women’s biggest vulnerability is intra-sexual competition for the attentions of a desired man. The is THE kryptonite for ALL women post-puberty. Since women have no other power, all women will escalate sexually when competing with other women. Attention whoring is a degenerate (albeit common) form, but the quick and dirty way to get not just increased (but deniable) IOI from a woman but actual undeniable… Read more »
One open doorway to kino is mirroring postures. 1. Establish yourself within spittin’ distance of the woman and interact, i.e. open her. Extra company is irrelevant. 2. Mirror her posture exaggeratedly, not subtly. Aim for laughs from her. She will change posture. Always. 3. Mirror her change accurately, and then along with it add something else different-but-expected, like touch your cheek or rake your hair. 4. She very well may initiate kino herself already at this point, but otherwise observe her for mirroring your addition. 5. Repeat 2 and 3 as needed until she mirrors. 6. Smirk, and touch her.… Read more »
@ Softek and M. Simon – Thanks so much for the input and comments. I’m currently depression and psycho-active medication free, and manage my anxiety pretty well. I looked at Faster EFT and frankly, it’s not much different from what I do with the Sedona Method. Softek – perhaps the most powerful thing in the Sedona Method is to say “No” when I ask myself honestly whether I want to let go of negative emotions. I hold onto these things as they have become anchors for me and give me a sense of who I am. That helps me see… Read more »
Glenn: You can see the shrink who said you did not have a chance was full of shit; you have demonstrated fortitude and perseverance–traits that were there at the beginning and now known to be some of your strength. You’ll get even stronger yet: perfect practice makes perfect.
@Glenn re: “it gives an ego boost”
And (for secular purposes, i.e. the purposes of the blog, and being selfish, and winning, and etc), this is bad?
Repeating some of what Glenn alluded to, including earlier. This is for all you fine ladies out there. Men are not particularly attracted to women for whom the men are responsible. Repeating: Being in authority over a woman does NOT make the woman more *attractive*. But, for a lot maybe most men, it makes the woman *easier*. Men do NOT have “daughter” issues in general, if at all. But women DO have “daddy” issues, all the time, especially if there are “sisters” with whom they are competing. Now, if this comment doesn’t get my favorite ladylurker to delurk I don’t… Read more »
Bait.
Selena Gomez has a remarkably kissable nose and exquisite feet.
BTW the age of the designated pre-selector slut is irrelevant; all that matters is her woman-perceived hotness i.e. the extent to which women would perceive that men would choose to pump-and-dump her i.e. the extent to which women think she would be “worth a f—, but that’s all”. This perceived Slut Value is, I think, basically the ratio of her SMV squared to her MMV. SMV²/MMV The really good news is that *hot* sluts are the exact ones who are up for playing along to help you Game other women. This kind of Conspiracy Game usually is about as much… Read more »
@BuenaVista re: “I just shrugged at all the new obligations she was imposing, considering them prosaic nuisances, just another set of bars to jump over. Dumb dumb dumb.”
Would you say that was your Waterloo?
It would seem that men in other parts of the world is way ahead of us in terms of turning the tide (this approach has also been suggested by MGTOW’s – they have seen the light some time ago already) – and women are taking notice – where everything else fails, THIS gets attention – see this response (below) – the question is though, would alpha’s play ball? Note the comments also below this piece: http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/kaguremugo/2014/11/24/kenyan-men-extend-sex-boycott/ Maybe it’s time for men to re-empower themselves, strategically, by going their own way and by utilise quality services of the oldest profession the… Read more »
Being “ugly, old and disgusting”, but horny, makes a man vulnerable to robbery and assault.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/27/nyregion/fantasy-date-with-twins-turns-sour-for-man-84.html
Somewhat OT, two of the leading sociological researchers who have concerned themselves with the sexual vulnerability of hetero males, in and out of LTRs, are Elisabeth Burgess and Denise Donnelly from GSU, who also managed to publish the only article on incel. Burgess is still there, but I can’t figure out what happened to Donnelly. Anybody know?
Glen what really settled the issue of the basic nature of women was dealing with my daughter and how she responded to game. frame control, dread etc
Wait, women writing on (male) incel? How come almost only women write about male sexuality. They seem rather obsessed with it…
jf12 November 27th, 2014 at 9:13 am I also feel almost victorious when accused of being too heatedly involved/hyperfocused, or too controlling/bossy. Oh. Yeah! At that point I remind her that I have been right 99% of the time despite vociferous complaints that I was being abusive and over controlling. And the 1%? “Well you will just have to wait until I recognize the error and correct it. Which I have done.” BTW I’m another boomer nerd. I designed the I/O board that went into the world’s first BBS. A precursor of the ‘net for those too young to remember.… Read more »
J.J.
November 28th, 2014 at 11:01 am
If the women of America took up Bobbiting the way Kenyan women have I’d definitely consider celibacy.
I like Rollo but I don’t have much empathy that he doesn’t have the weekend post up yet
Glenn November 28th, 2014 at 9:42 am I used “The Fourth Way” by P. D. Ouspensky for negative emotions. There is a lot of occult mumbo jumbo but the rules are simple. 1. Do not identify 2. Do not consider 3. DO NOT TELL LIES 4. Do not express negative emotions 1&2 are about not letting social situations and conventions rule you. He discusses the 96,000 rules most people have because they are not in touch. He says you don’t become human until you have pared it down to 48 rules and the rest is free interaction. The not telling… Read more »
The first mate once explained the value of being in pain for a woman. “It is such a rush when it gets temporarily relieved.”
They are addicted to that rush, so being in pain has value for them. It is the precursor to the next big rush.
That is a very hard disease to cure.
It’s interesting reading red pill material. You guys make a lot of great points, its pretty much always factual, evident stuff (thanks myrealitie and crazylittle for being candid/honest) but my god, you’re all a bunch of whiny, bitter betas. You complain that women aren’t taking responsibility for regulating their emotions or taking care of men. I understand that it sucks that you can’t lean on your woman a little when having a hard time, but get over it! Deal with the reality you’re so painstakingly describing. You say women are like children and dogs but can’t stop bitching about their… Read more »
@ M. Simon Yeah, it’s not like the majority of men in the West isn’t having that done to them, just not exactly physically. The point is WE (except for the MGTOW’s) ain’t got the balls to counteract this situation, unlike Kenyan men… Heck, Western WOMEN have more balls than us – they simply DENY US sex – as they please – and they hold all the cards – to reach certain objectives, no sweat. Yet, here we are bitching amongst each other about the injustice of it all, yet – when push comes to shove, are MEN (“men”?) really… Read more »
Hey, Bricks, I’m really curious what you have accomplished in life, and how studly and awesome you are professionally and personally. Thanks for setting us straight. Do you have a driver’s license yet?
Bricks is kind of right but I think he doesn’t understand the purpose of the manosphere. It’s a place for us to regain our sanity. We are essentially comparing notes and realizing we aren’t crazy. I don’t anticipate spending years on this or any other site. I will learn what I need to and log in periodically to pass on wisdom if I can. Other than that, this is not the destination. It is just part of the path. Brick, read about the 5 stages of unplugging. The whining you are whining about is just one stage of the process.… Read more »
Concerning “All The Cards” that women hold. Well for most husbands it’s true, they’re being pussy-whipped and don’t even defend themselves. But when you have acknowledged that you can’t use brutal force against them because the state has the monopoly on it and they’re on her side, you realize you have other powers over them, powers to which they are defenseless. Like withdrawing attention by walking away, dread or even withholding sex. Yeah, it might take some balls to do it (or just the oldest profession as mentioned above) but you can do it and the situation will get better… Read more »
@heyjay re: “women writing on (male) incel?”
Yes, males have written about it extensively, none of which was allowed to be published in scientific journals for the usual reasons: PC, FI, etc. If I remember correctly, the incel data that Burgess and Donnelly published was originally from Donnelly’s thesis work, about which her advisers complained after the fact that they thought they were approving something else. And it took years and years to get it published, and only because Burgess was the editor of the journal I think.
@Bricks, what do you have against women doing their job? What do ou think women are *for*?
@Briks Apparently, under the pretense of the unfairness of life, men should accept the burden of having to perform for women who will not only be incapable of appreciating the sacrifices made for them but also, will not provide any support when he is having a hard time. Men should Just “Get over it”. You forgot to add that they should “Man up and and stop acting like children who refuse to accept responsibilities” Since men are “born to perform”,they should just do so for ungrateful women because “life isn’t fair”. That’s really funny! I’ll at least give you that.… Read more »
re: “all the cards” As a beta, it isn’t even my wife’s displeasure that keeps me in check. Her too-quick displeasure is more or less taken for granted anyway. The ONE card she holds is accusing me of being mean, impolite, not living up to my bestest beta standards. It’s all she’s got; she’s got nothing besides. After the loong ride home from her younger sister’s house, after hours of me being Mr. Performer for her single older sister, so much so that she wet her panties in public again, and after the jealous younger sister ragingly roused her sleeping… Read more »
J.J. November 28th, 2014 at 3:45 pm are MEN (“men”?) really able to withhold sex??? Not just sex but all kinds of signs of affection. To make it work you have to tell her, “you can be replaced” and mean it. And of course she has to believe it from your having done something in her presence. Barring mass Bobbiting I don’t think a total sex strike is possible. For guys starting out it helps to have had a threesome or three with the LTR c*nt. And when she gets out of line remind her of it. Or do what… Read more »
The ONE card she holds is accusing me of being mean, impolite, not living up to my bestest beta standards. Luckily I never had to live up to that. But I do get accused of that when she is going through one of her unbonded periods. I have ALWAYS been the lewd crude bad boy. “You behaving like a c*nt? That is what I’m going to call you.” Funny thing is when she bonds she wants to be my c*nt. Go figure. She was hoping to reform me. On some level I knew better. And now with sites like this… Read more »
Chester
November 28th, 2014 at 5:35 pm
What is the actual value of a woman’s pseudo loving worship considering the parameters on which that “love” is based?
Not much? Zero? Less than zero?
Women are for f*cking or raising children. If they aren’t doing either what is the point?
heyjay
November 28th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
…you realize you have other powers over them, powers to which they are defenseless.
Like withdrawing attention by walking away, dread or even withholding sex.
When I really want to get to the first mate I stop talking to her. Sometimes for days. The silent cold shoulder. She can’t handle that. At all.
Women who can’t use their verbal tools (they are usuallu better at it than men) are powerless. If they can’t fill the air with sounds they have to feel. And generally it don’t feel good.
Hmmmm. The tag didn’t work or I wrote it wrong so
usually
Well that was badly done. and the [u] tag is not understood. so. Lets see if this works:
span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>usually
I wonder if a phony link will work? Probably change the color too.
usually
Re: my –> M Simon November 28th, 2014 at 3:21 pm Let me add that steady pleasure doesn’t seem to interest women. They crave excitement. I have actually gotten the first mate to take steady doses of pleasure such that it is almost a habit almost. And then she will crash things to recreate the pain so she can get a rush at the next point of relief. I’m thinking of spanking her more often. Just a little more than she can handle. So it feels real good when I stop. A relief from pain AND fear (the fear that… Read more »
@ msimon
They crave excitement.
Yeah, drama is a need for women. Boredom kills the tingles. See my post about relationships. Ton had a useful comment there, too. Dread helps create drama.
Vulnerability will NEVER be rewarded to you with increased understanding, affection and bonding from a woman; in fact, quite the opposite.
No matter how much discussion goes on in this posting, I think it’s agreed that unless you are THE MAN and establish that fact early on, showing vulnerability just disqualifies you in every stage in your life. Just don’t fall for that B.S. If the dating world is a shark tank, then vulnerability is a great white whose mouth you willingly swim into.
Like I said earlier; hide it, deny it and kill it.
“I mind an entire society creating a disease called “erectile dysfunction” to pathologize the fact that men can’t get an erection to fuck their aging wives. Have you ever even considered why a man takes the little blue pill? It’s so he can do stud service to a woman he doesn’t really even want to fuck at all – talk about “rape culture”, who’s sexual agency is being impinged upon in this scenario?” This is so true, especially when you combine the fact of women aging with their sense of entitlement to the rock-hard insta-stiffy they inspired as a young… Read more »
@ jf12 RE: The question: “What are women *for*?”… The only reason why this questions is (rightly) being asked (now) and has come up now – is due to the fact that women take responsibility for nothing – if they are not obligated to do something – and even then they would mostly prefer not to HAVE TO do that something – they are lazy creatures by nature. Women used to be *for* many things – in the sense that they had a certain role to fulfil as a partner, wife and or mother and the tasks and duties involved… Read more »
Typo correction: Andy Randead
I have an interesting update: So, after this discussion last week I was a complete bitch to my husband. I think you might call this “shit-testing.” He pushed back on me appropriately, and I felt safe again. We ended up having a really excellent holiday. Today he came home and complained to me again about some work developments that I find very stressful to hear about. Without going into too much detail, the next month or so is a critical period for his future, and despite being in a really outstanding position, he is feeling anxious about things. I was… Read more »
“Alternatively, he could simply tell me that he would like me to be supportive without laying the details on me about his anxiety. This is the really important point I want to drive home: I think most women are happy to cook for you, give you a back rub, make you a cup of tea, or do anything else to help out the team, but please, STFU. Why stress another person out who is in no position to give you advice or offer assistance of any kind? You can get plenty of support if you ask for it directly. Just… Read more »
myrealitie
December 1st, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Why stress another person out who is in no position to give you advice or offer assistance of any kind?
Isn’t that what women do (yeah you are not like that) all the time?
Especially at their pity parties (coffee klatches). One thing that has helped my LTR is reducing the amount of time she spends at pity parties to near zero.
“You want to feel better? Bond with me.”
I did tell him, and it’s helping a lot actually. I even demonstrated that if he shields me from this stress that I am in no position to help with directly that I am extremely willing actually do more than I already do (in terms of house work and care-taking) to help ease his burden and keep him feeling his best. I think complaining, for both sexes, is really just a bad habit where one gets into a negative loop of thinking and uses another person to perpetuate it. And yes, I do do it sometimes, and I would like… Read more »
@ Kate
he shields me from this stress that I am in no position to help with directly that I am extremely willing actually do more than I already do (in terms of house work and care-taking) to help ease his burden and keep him feeling his best.
Very helpful. So the feminine nonsense about 100% openness is…nonsense. Women want to be shielded from what a man faces but to be delegated additional tasks without understanding the details of why.
@theasdgamer: “So the feminine nonsense about 100% openness is…nonsense. ” – I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic, but, Yes, I believe that is what Rollo has been trying to say in various different ways for the lifetime of this blog. Do you disagree?
@ Kate
I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic, but
no “but” cracks, please..lol…
@myrealitie
Every once in a while, someone inadvertently blabs the truth. Thank you for your comment as it directly illuminates this topic better than I ever could.
Whether we like it or not, whether we’re single, married or in a LTR, the women in your life just don’t want to hear any vulnerability. There’s only room for one person to have self generated indignatio…..I mean, stress in a relationship, and that sir is definitely not you. Empathy and sympathy only flow in one direction – hers.
Great inadvertent brain fart, there.
@myrealitie
Sometimes a man needs just a very basic acknowledgement of support – just a couple of words of understanding – that’s all – and he’s up an away – it’s just good to know that your partner actually G’sAF. Even that seems to be too much to ask though, because the slightest “chink in one’s armour” (being human) is bound to be seen as a weakness…
What a joke.
MGTOW
“… I told him that I am not going to listen to him complain because I can’t do anything to help the situation, and it just stresses me out also. … Alternatively, he could simply tell me that he would like me to be supportive without laying the details on me about his anxiety.” What myrealitie said is completely reasonable. [December 1st, 2014 at 8:31 pm, and December 2nd, 2014 at 8:02 am] You guys really need to stop expecting and demanding that women be your equals, and not depend on you for strength and emotional well-being. One fundamental aspect… Read more »
@ eon
Reality check – chickens coming home to roost – women have absolutely irrevocably demanded equality (maybe not realising there’s responsibility involved – as in providing SUPPORT – and having to LISTEN to other people’s problems…). If maybe they did not push so hard for equality, this would have not been an expectation now – by men in THIS AGE – the “old times” are over. By the CHOICE of females – time to WOMAN UP!
@Jf
re: “They are available… IF you know how to get and keep a woman interested.”
Be a bad boy. Be an emotional robot. Be strong without any weaknesses. Be completely immune to heartache and completely dismiss everything a woman ever says or does.
Yeah, lose all your humanity – be a malignant narcissist, be a socio-path…
(all just to please a woman) ..
Are you even listen to yourself?? Think about it.
What is the main feature of narcissism and sociopathy?
Anyone…??
Lack of EMPATHY.
Thanks @eon, I appreciate your being willing to see my perspective. Fortunately, actually, so has my husband, after discussion. I am happy that I have gotten to a point where I view things from this perspective; I was able to communicate matter-of-factly and without guilt that I am here to be supportive but I can’t be roped into his work-anxiety and asked him to please save detailed discussions of his concerns for conversation with his male support system (which is sizable and available to him). In the past, I may have felt that it was my womanly duty to be… Read more »
Also @eon I agree with your analogy about mothers and children. It’s a terrible thing for a mother to rest on her children emotionally and to even subtly suggest that they are responsible for her emotional well-being and the safety of the family. In fact, mothers who do this to their sons are responsible for creating “white knights” to a large extent. These little boys, instead of figuring themselves and the world out, were pre-occupied with pleasing and catering to their mothers.
@eon «Furthermore, you create the absolutely most damaging stress by dumping your problems on someone who depends on you, and who can’t do anything to help the situation. » Is talking to her about your problems sometimes, equivalent to dumping your problem on her? If so, doesn’t that mean you shouldn’t have the problems anymore and she should have them all? What is the meaning of “dump”? Can you dump something and still have it in your possession? «This stress is like when your boss gives you responsibility and accountability, but without any authority.» what responsibility does she have when… Read more »
@ J.J. [December 3rd, 2014 at 3:38 pm] Either the capabilities of men and women are what has been observed and discussed throughout history, or they are not. If they are, then these capacities and limitations determine what is possible, and define rational responses. In a way, it simply comes down to cause and effect. If you accept the validity of the elements that comprise the cause, then the masculine response is to deal rationally with the inevitable, and equally valid, effects. Acting as if women are capable of being more than they are capable of being, is neither rational… Read more »
@ Eon Have you ever heard the expression: “Why A Great Woman Is Behind Every Great Man”? Where did this originate from? Did it not originate specifically due to the support that women *used to* proved for their men? Here’s a recent article exploring that: http://www.askmen.com/money/successful_100/147_success.html The idea that women are incapable of providing emotional support IS A FALLACY. “Either the capabilities of men and women are what has been observed and discussed throughout history, or they are not.” Indeed – and you are wrong – women have not been observed to be incapable of providing moral and by extension,… Read more »
@J.J. Rollo has already described ASKMEN as blatantly girl world propaganda advice articles over at AskMen For extra fun, look up what other ‘girl world’ properties the parent company now owns. There’s unlimited funding for the WRONG advice for men, but Rollo writes from his heart based on the experiences of his life, his education and millions of people around the world. He receives no funding for this blog. She still exists. My girlfriend stuck with me when the doctors gave up on me, through loss of mobility and speech, through spending most of 2014 in 24/7 inpatient care. Though… Read more »
https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/519206603929968641
@ J.J. “Have you ever heard the expression: ‘Why A Great Woman Is Behind Every Great Man’ ”? Heh, have you ever heard the expression: “A woman nurturing her Alpha man nurtures his strength, not his weaknesses.”? [Brody, /2014/11/02/alpha-tells/comment-page-2/#comment-65437] . The point that you seem to be missing is that, when you were a child, your mother could nurture your weaknesses, on an ongoing (but temporary) basis, because that was her natural role, because she was superior to you in relevant ways, and because she was not depending on you for emotional, or physical, security and stability. On the other… Read more »
Here’s a recent study that has been done on this subject – I’ve not read it yet, but if it contradicts my opinions, then I will reassess my view-point. This could be interesting reading as the study was published in 2012:
http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/11904/2/Ciccocioppo_etd2012.pdf
This excerpt from the report above report: http://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/11904/2/Ciccocioppo_etd2012.pdf “There may also be changes in the amount of emotional support that men now provide to their partners. Previous blueprints for romantic relationships emphasized separate roles for men and women (Cancian, 1987). According to this traditional idea of relationships, women were responsible for providing emotional support to their partner, but men were not. Today, both men and women expect their partner to provide them with emotional support. In fact, failure to meet this expectation has been cited as one of the primary reasons for divorce in married couples (Riessman, 1990). It may… Read more »
@J.J. You’re at the right place to learn that peer reviewed studies are often funded because of the expected outcomes. What you’ve cited is a dissertation by Melinda Ciccocioppo for approval by: Elizabeth Votruba-Drzal Martin Greenberg Brooke Feeney Irene Frieze What do most of these names have in common? In the dissertation, Ms. Ciccocioppo cites Deborah Tannen three times. I had a male professor in college that thought all men are quite evil that was obsessed with Deborah Tannen, so I learned her works. Chateau Heartiste answered commenter Anonymous (about D. Tannen) Anonymous I must, at least in part, disagree.… Read more »
Mrs. Gamer acquired a couple of major weaknesses a few years back. Those haven’t diminished her beauty one iota. Hence, the stiff-o-meter hasn’t changed a smidgeon.
Women and men have different responses to weaknesses in their mates. Women who mother their mates have trouble sexing them up. Men who nurture their mates don’t have that trouble.
@J.J., in response to the well-funded ASKMEN piece and the thesis from Melinda Ciccocioppo… From Rollo Tomassi’s book, “The Rational Male” the “communication is everything” meme has been responsible for the demise of more relationships than anyone will ever admit It’s not that you communicate, it’s what you’re communicating and how you communicate it I’ve counseled more men than I care to recount who’ve sobbed from the depths of their souls, “IF SHE’D JUST TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO MAKE HER LOVE ME I’D DO IT!” not realizing that their very verbalization of that, and a belief… Read more »
“However, as an adult, your role, with respect to the previous example, is that of the “mother”, while your woman is the “child”, because she is not normally capable of being “strong and independent”, as has been observed throughout history, irrespective of the present bullshit propaganda.” Yes, poor little things… not at all capable of anything at all… they are so innocent and child-like… Big bad alpha must nature and protect them and be their mommy – and shield them from those annoying beta’s who consistently demand that they take responsibility for themselves… and for their roles as wives or… Read more »
I don’t remember who wrote it, but someone made a claim about the insignificance about “doing things around the house” in the time of appliances. My response to that is: A) I, and many women, work full time. So there are only a few hours in the day to complete what still amounts to a great deal of work, in the form of cooking a meal, cleaning up after that meal, laundry, tidying up bathrooms, grocery shopping, etc. But more importantly, is B) the creation of a calm and pleasant atmosphere that is conducive to re-charging. If I am simply… Read more »
@J.J. “There may also be changes in the amount of emotional support that men now provide to their partners. Previous blueprints for romantic relationships emphasized separate roles for men and women (Cancian, 1987). Most feminine-centric ideology revolves around the idea of “separate” roles forging the narrative of conventional gender roles. What is conveniently overlooked is the complmentarity between those “separate” roles, and how they interact together to create what up until recently has been the foundation of our very successful species’ mutual survival, if not intergender harmony. According to this traditional idea of relationships, women were responsible for providing emotional… Read more »
@Glenn
Your entire comment was great but I want to speak on one thing…
I have long suspected those ED meds (Viagra, Cialis) were really for men with wives too old/unattractive to give them a boner, and that true erectile dysfunction is a rare condition. The meds basically make it easier to achieve an erection with less stimulation. An older male with decent cardiovascular health really shouldn’t have issues with the plumbing.
So does sex with a drug-induced erection count as rape these days?
On the subject of emoting manginas: One day my wife told me that she really hates all the manginas she sees at work, all sobbing like babies. I was like, “oh, you know the word mangina?” She said yes, it is what her and her co-workers call the men “who cry like little girls.” Then she added, “And thank God you’re not a mangina–you’re so damn stoic I could just strangle you sometimes–but I couldn’t handle you being a mangina!” I took this little conversation as an indicator of what frame I must maintain. It isn’t that I am expected… Read more »