Intimacy

intimacy

Bad Painter had a great question a few months ago:

What exactly is intimacy? What does that look like in a Redpill context?

I used to think I knew what intimacy was, in a blue pill way at least. And I have come the realization that intimacy is either not worth shit, or I simply don’t get it. What I do know is that those times were I was informed intimacy had been achieved were not correlated with my feeling comfortable, more secure or less anxious rather it was the opposite.

This is a good question.

In my writing I use the term ‘intimacy’ as a sort of confirmation of a woman’s genuine interest, but I don’t think I’ve ever really defined it.

Strictly from a PUAs sense I would say intimacy is a woman’s sexual availability – in no uncertain terms it’s confirmation of her intimate interest and acceptance of you, but then again, in my own sexual past I’ve had more than one fuck-buddy with whom I really didn’t share any real intimacy with.

In those instances I was (at least perceived) a point or so above these women’s SMV and enjoyed all the Alpha benefits that arrangement afforded me, but beyond the sexual, I had no real interest in any kind of intimacy, shared or not.

In a sense, I actually had a much deeper intimacy with the three fuck-buddies I would bang in my 20’s than the women with whom I’d invested myself with in more “meaningful” relationships. You see, with my fuck-buddies all pretense of caring about what they thought of me personally (and certainly from a long-term investment) was simply a non-issue. I was free to express as much or as little of myself as I wanted because I wasn’t actively qualifying for their future investment in me. My Frame was dominant from the outset – sex-on-call is a pretty strong indicator of dominant Frame.

When I was writing the final edits of the Wait For It? post for the Rational Male book I felt that I needed to add a caveat towards the end of that section to account for a sense of intimacy for red pill men, who by conviction or otherwise, weren’t comfortable with actually fucking a woman to confirm genuine desire.

The point of that being that sex isn’t necessarily a determinant of intimacy, but rather the real desire for that person and the want for a mutual connection (to be consummated by sex) creates a condition of intimacy.

Zenpriest on intimacy:

“When one considers that one must “game” a woman, even your wife, in order to keep her around, then it also means that you must always be operating at a “higher level” than her. It totally negates the whole notion of having a “soul-mate” and means that on many levels, a man will always be alone.” 

That is probably the most important lesson a man can ever learn.

Intimacy with a woman is impossible if you have any interest in being her lover. If you are fine with being one of her grrrlfriends, and don’t mind the stupid messed up games women run on them, then you can share to your heart’s content – and will always be on the LJBF ladder.

The fundamental problem with today’s concept of marriage is that it seems both men and women expect their spouse to be all things to them – lover, confidante, helpmate, “soulmate”, co-housekeeper, and co-wage-earner. With so many role demands, it is inevitable that everyone will fail at some of them. That is why the old division of roles worked fairly well for most people – each could concentrate on a few things they were good at, and leave the rest to the other person.

Zenpriest outlines one of the fundamental differences between a forced egalitarian equalist approach to relationships with the natural complementary approach – intimacy between two autonomous, self-sufficient, self-reliant individuals is an impossibility in a sustained relationship. If there is a complete self-sustaining independence between both partners (an eqaulist idealized state) then there is no true purpose for intimacy between the two.

Buena Vista:

I have been the Alpha Fucks, the Beta Bucks, and I have been both at the same time. Civil marriage requires a man, as Deti notes by inverse example, to commit to permanent Game. Permanent Game rarely involves true intimacy. This is the reality of the Plan B Nice Guy in marriage.

Eon:

It seems that intimacy, like love, is only possible if you are greater than (and thus truly independent of) the object of your love.

Softek:

In my opinion, intimacy is unchanged by the red pill. It’s the ideas and perceptions about it that are changed.

There’s a lot of dichotomy: sex, attention, and affection are all thought of as needs, but at the same time, if you’re not getting any of those things, the only way to get them is to take on the mindset of having an abundance of them.

And the guys who seem to have free access to all of those things have access to them because they don’t care if they have access to them or not.

I have to consider these perspectives of intimacy and cross reference it with the Cardinal Rule of Relationships:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

Although in an extreme this may seem manipulative to the uninitiated, this balance exists in every relationship irrespective of whether one party is intentionally using that power or not. In fact the most frustrated men you’ll ever meet are those whose women aren’t intentionally using the power his qualifying for her intimacy bestows upon her. He wonders why he can never merit her intimacy, while she, obliviously, wonders why he keeps trying to merit it.

As I illustrated in my fuck-buddies example, I was free to be as intimate as I chose with them because I literally had nothing to lose by doing so. And in that state of outcome indifference they wanted those occasions of intimacy far more than any woman I’d held in a high enough esteem to think I needed to qualify for their intimacy.

However, from a Red Pill perspective, I think the idea that “real” intimacy requires a constant effort of Game is in error. I’ve shared an enduring intimacy with Mrs. Tomassi for 19 years because Game and Red Pill awareness are simply part of who I am now. Game, if that’s even the right word for it, becomes effortless once you’ve made Red Pill truths an intrinsic part of who you are.

I still think Buena’s right though, permanent Game rarely involves true intimacy, but only if that Game is a constant act a man feels he needs to make believable to sustain his relationship. This then comes full circle to wanting to fulfill Blue Pill idealisms of intimacy with applied Red Pill awareness.

Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness.

Most men’s concept of intimacy, like love, is shaped by his Blue Pill conditioning. The key to real intimacy is understanding how it can grow and be sustained in a Red Pill context. Chasing after an intimacy defined by the feminine suffers from the same misdirection of presuming women’s concept of love (opportunism) agrees with men’s (idealism).

So, weekend discussion questions:

How do you define intimacy?

Do you think men and women share the same concept and definition of intimacy?

Is ‘true’ intimacy only achievable when you have nothing to lose and nothing invested in a woman?

 

End Note: I’m well aware that intimacy has far broader inferences than just the relations between men and women, and I’m not attempting to pigeonhole the entire concept. There is intimacy with your family, your God, your pets, yourself and a variety of other things. However, even in those instances there is still a power dynamic at play.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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New Yorker
New Yorker
7 years ago

If you are a combat captain, then you know damn well the responsibility of leading your team and how their presence helps keep you strong in hard times because you feel the responsibility. Woman is the same. BTW, I have been running my own firm for a while now and many ex-military find the world a much harder, fuzzier place than they hope. I like them but, friend, they are often more outgunned in the business world than they will care to admit. The man who strives and adapts, wins. The one who brings yesterday’s guns to today’s fight…..loses. Good… Read more »

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

On topic on the subject of intimacy, if you think about it.

The maliciousness of supposed ignorance is revealed in both its repetition and in its refusal to learn by changing.

Bluepillprofessor
Bluepillprofessor
7 years ago

Intimacy is that brief afterglow after busting a nut inside a girl when you feel warm, safe, loved, and satisfied. It is at that precise moment you are most vulnerable. It is at that precise moment when the Beta snuggles up to her and puts his head on her breasts, cooing like an overgrown little boy. Maybe you can lay there and let her rub circles on your back? It is at that precise moment when the Alpha move is to jump up, give her a peck on the forehead and a pat on the butt- and then leave and… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

Bluepillprofessor – “TLDR: Don’t be the huggy fully body caress guy after sex. Get up and leave her dripping ropes. THAT is fucking intimacy and the best you will get from a girl.”

Satire?

Tom
Tom
7 years ago

Intimacy? Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Here is the key to all the intimacy a man needs . . . LOL

https://www.toovia.com/posts/2014/may/06/0.13503.364030551672487946

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ jf12

I have to award a big Meh to the relationship conclusions of the Grant Study.

I’ll meet your “Meh” and raise with a big sigh.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Professor That is so true. We can enjoy the afterglow warmth and happy emotions for a bit after sex, but then we need to hop up and get on with our mission. Mrs. Gamer was bitchy when she woke up because of insecurity issues, me being out dancing solo last night. She asked me if I enjoy touching other women and I replied, “Of course, I’m a man.” And I do touch them in the context of dancing: back, hands, arms, shoulders, neck, tummy, and hips. (Women do the boob graze themselves, but that is so “Meh”. The boob… Read more »

SJB
SJB
7 years ago

@sfcton: Sure my guys knew my warts and vulnerabilities because I could tell them: “Yeah, I fucked that up. This is what I’m going to do next time . . .” Sure they’d watch me, waiting to see if I kept my word, but that is far different then a woman: she’ll shit-test you regardless. Telling her “I fucked up and this is what I’m going to do next time” exponentially increases the shit-tests into shrew territory. So, yeah, a man who thinks he can be intimate with a woman because he experienced la petite mort atop her is not… Read more »

New Yorker
New Yorker
7 years ago

There are two ways to build intimacy…..from a position of strength or weakness. A man can only do it from a position of strength. All of the great leaders in history find a way to do that. No one will follow you if they don’t know where you want to take them and especially when the journey gets hard. It is your job to keep shining the light and keeping everyone focused. Your woman is your charge. If she does not understand where you are going, she will think you are hiding something and are afraid to face up to… Read more »

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

re: “No one will follow you if they don’t know where you want to take them”

Bah, humbug. Is vs ought. Apex fallacy. Etc. Women follow thugs and Charlie Manson, and have no idea where they’re going or why.

Concrete
Concrete
7 years ago

@jf12

“I don’t think I’ve ever really defined it.”

Well, he definitely succeeded in not defining at all. The definition remained unsolved.

Good job.

Brad
Brad
7 years ago

What a great article.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@Concrete, re: good job. Very often still surprisingly good, yes. “So, weekend discussion questions: How do you define intimacy?” About eight of us have proffered our takes on it. So far from you all I see is “In a broader context, I think that life is meaningless without true intimacy.” Hence, so far, you’ve presented merely an “ill-defined mishmash of bad definitions and half-truths” couched as an insufficient prerequisite for “meaning”, in a sort of weak cospan pullback formulation, i.e. a sort of a nonunique inverse function in perhaps more familiar terms. Are gonna go all No True Intimacy fallacy,… Read more »

Concrete
Concrete
7 years ago

So, let me get this straight:

There is no true intimacy between man and woman, only some ‘communication of vulnerability’ on the part of the woman.OK.

Also, women are needed to be treated as disposable objects. If one doesnt behave like she is supposed to, we just move on to another.

I already feel much more elightened.

🙂

Concrete
Concrete
7 years ago

I define true intimacy as:
when you can tell everything about yourself without feeling that you are being judged.

Is it possible with a woman? Well, if you have nothing serious to hide, for example: you are not a serial killer or something. Or mybe tht is just another, even deeper level of intimacy? I will never know, since I never killed anyone.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@Concrete, re: getting straight. Focus, please, and not on just the straw men littering the place. In reverse order so far SJB gave a partial feelings-based take: being able to confess error without fear of retribution. Tom gave two thumbs up, at least, to a woman exerting efforts to physically please her man as the sine qua non of intimacy. I’m inclined to agree. Bluepillprofessor suggested behaviorally pushing past intimacy-as-vulnerability for better results. Some number, in which we can count scfton and Badpainter, think women are not worth a man trying to make intimacy the way he wants. Eon, and… Read more »

redlight
redlight
7 years ago

“when you can tell everything about yourself without feeling that you are being judged”

since women love men conditionally there is no respite from their judging

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

True intimacy: “when you can tell everything about yourself without feeling that you are being judged”

If you a being judged positively then this an Alpha tell.

If you a being judged negatively this is a Beta tell

If you a being judged negatively and feel you aren’t being judged* you’re and idiot….and still a Beta tell.

If you are being judged positively and really don’t give a damn then you’ve achieved transcendence to autonomy.

*you’re being judged

I think the above formula can applied to just about everything.

Concrete
Concrete
7 years ago

@Badpainter

Being judged positively or negatively. One has to be at a level, where the woman doesn’t give a fuck about it. After multiple orgasms for example. Sometimes there has to be a spiritual element as well, like a confession type of thing. There is some individuality at play I think. Various women react to various methods. One has to try and see.

“I think the above formula can applied to just about everything.”

Well, That is just Me I suppose. Sorry to not conform to your arbitrary rules.

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

Concrete,

You might try reading my comment as a sort of nuanced agreement with your definition, but whatever floats your boat.

ianironwood
7 years ago

Emotional intimacy is the admission of an emotional truth. It can be an expression of desire, a confession of regret, or a reflection of personal meaning. Or a thousand other things. But that’s what it is, objectively. I second NewYorker’s position: true emotional intimacy occurs from a position of strength, not weakness. In my experience it also only occurs when there is a sense of mutual emotional security in a relationship that has established a firm conceptual framework of expectation and boundaries. It is the realized product of a well-executed marriage, something that can only be achieved when the groundwork… Read more »

trugingstar
7 years ago

If you’re going around and sleeping with lots of women and lying to them, then intimacy is going to be something totally independent of trust. It’s going to be one woman’s hardcore, stupid attraction to the alpha. Marital intimacy is based in trust. First, I trust that the marriage will deliver what it says on the package: fidelity, sex, commitment, etc. Of course, it must go both ways, or the marriage isn’t valid, and can therefore, not be trusted, and you’re back into hamster intimacy ville. The closer you get to your spouse, the more intimate you become. So basically,… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

trudging star – “If one day I’m a Economic Darwinist and the next day I’m a Communist, I probably have no grasp on politics.”

Might be, but you would absolutely have no understanding of economics. Good analogy BTW.

And although there definelty a crisis of identity in regards to what it is to be a man, it can’t be ignored that part of the problem is women collectively deciding they too want to be men, or rather no longer want to be women..

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ jf12 “So, weekend discussion questions: How do you define intimacy?” About eight of us have proffered our takes on it. So far from you all I see is “In a broader context, I think that life is meaningless without true intimacy.” Hence, so far, you’ve presented merely an “ill-defined mishmash of bad definitions and half-truths” couched as an insufficient prerequisite for “meaning”, in a sort of weak cospan pullback formulation, i.e. a sort of a nonunique inverse function in perhaps more familiar terms. Are gonna go all No True Intimacy fallacy, or say something definite? #1 comment of the… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ ian when your wife relaxes into the role of promoting the equilibrium in your marriage because her hypergamous impulse and feminine imperative is satisfied by you. Hypergamy never sleeps…though it sleeps around. The best that you can do is calibrate her self-mateguarding and hire a private investigator. If she turns your revelation about how you feel about your brother into a weapon in the relationship, she’s revealed herself as untrustworthy and uncareful of your emotions. Heh, I’ve never known a woman who didn’t use a man’s weakness as a weapon against him. No women are trustworthy in that sense.… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ trugingstar the femtroll

I’m not saying that men shouldn’t act like men, but there’s no point to use “game,” or deception

Fakking cunt shaming tactics putting quotes around “game” and implying that it is deceptive. Unattractive does as unattractive is. Are your boobs too small? Butt too big? Too much paunch? Love handles a problem? Eyes mismatched? Dishwater blonde hair?

theasdgamer
7 years ago

The best solution for hypergamy is to keep your SO chasing you. Be careful that her insecurity doesn’t cause her to disqualify herself and give up the chase. Calibrate her emotional needs well. Tingles, comfort, validation, and drama.

trugingstar
7 years ago

theasdgamer, Nope. I’m cute. Ask around, if you want. I’m sorry that I touched on the sensitive subject of your masculinity. If it makes you *feel* better, you can accuse me of shaming, call me names, and do whatever else you need to to relive your angst.

Feminism is based on the idea that women have a right to sexual mobility. Game is based upon the idea that Feminism is the superior system. It enforces Feminism. They are two sides of the same coin. As long as you’re gaming society, you’re promoting Feminism.

trugingstar
7 years ago

Rollo:

Of course I want someone who’s attractive. Don’t we all? I’m not going to marry someone who is absent of attractiveness. I’m also not going to marry someone who is going to be a bad choice. It’s a balance of the two.

I will probably “hypergamize”, meaning mate-select, someone who is average to cute in physical appearance, is smart enough to keep-up with me, and who I’d get along with fairly well: not a jerk, not a push-over either. It’s just difficult to find in a virgin, because they’re so few and far between to begin with.

trugingstar
7 years ago

Rollo: Ask Deti. Ask jack.

trugingstar
7 years ago

By the way, when you refer to “DG’s girls,” this is exactly the kind of split in the msphere that I’ve been predicting. I wrote about this in Veritas Lounge. It hasn’t happened yet, but it’s coming. You can’t have two opposing ideologies about sex in the same arena. The only thing keeping the manosphere together is the masculine imperative. In my instance, I believe that patriarchy is the M.O. anyway, and that nothing can be done about it, so might as well speed-along the masculine imperative. Once that’s down and everyone’s cured of Feminism, the bloggers from that end… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
7 years ago

The entire point of the Red Pill is to see that most women are unworthy of most men’s trust. We’ve been brainwashed with gynocentric ideas like romance, chivalry and sold on being husbands and fathers, along with the traditional roles of provider and protector, but there is no payoff left in society for being those things anymore. You get no gratitude or respect for it, and women giddily break the bargain in droves, leaving so many “good men” dangling in the breeze, in agony. That’s what intimacy will get you. I only trust those who earn my trust. And the… Read more »

trugingstar
7 years ago

We’re all just going to continue on our merry ways once Feminism’s expunged from the system. The more cultural influence outside of the web there is with Red Pill, the more quickly the manosphere will split. There only need to be a few active MGTOWers to get that process started. It’ll spread like a disease, because the nature of Capitalism (which happens to be both economic and political, whatever).

I’m curious about how this is going to shape society.

trugingstar
7 years ago

@Glenn: you probably (just trust me on this, or ask around, lol) would see someone like me as trustworthy and a good candidate for a partner, were you to ever settle-down. However, I can’t marry someone who isn’t a Christian, because religion. What you have to choose from are women who don’t follow my religion. What’s supposed to be going in, is the pastors are supposed to be kicking people out who aren’t actually Christians. If you’re in a church and curious about Christianity, you better not call yourself a Christian. However, everyone just lets people say they’re Christians as… Read more »

New Yorker
New Yorker
7 years ago

Rollo is right that a prerequisite for marital trust is desire…..but, that does not make the trust irrelevant to a truly happy marriage. It really comes down to what the man wants in his life and that in turn influences the type of woman that he winds up choosing and shaping in that image.

M Simon
7 years ago

jf12
November 22nd, 2014 at 10:58 am

I was at a hotel restaurant in Knoxville about 15 yrs ago and I think I came in after a debutant ball. It was pretty obvious who the top dog females were. And it was also obvious they were sizing up the boys for draft horse status/quality.

And the boys were chasing these girls like they were actual prizes.

M Simon
7 years ago

trugingstar
November 22nd, 2014 at 5:47 pm

I can’t marry some one who isn’t submissive, because of religion. And if she is submissive because of religion – well sometimes religious people forget their religion. I prefer a natural submissive or I will train to suit – me. Which generally suits her.

M Simon
7 years ago

They cannot be trusted to not use anything and everything in a given moment to get what they want

You just have to be better at it than they are. The rules are not difficult. Maintaining the discipline is.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@Glenn, re: “The entire point of the Red Pill is to see that most women are unworthy of most men’s trust.”

Yeah, pretty much. Provided by most you mean greater than 99.9% rather than merely 51%.

M Simon
7 years ago

trugingstar
November 22nd, 2014 at 5:19 pm

Red Pill in the context of “Christian” marriage is impossible unless the woman is a natural submissive. You can otherwise get her to submit by having girlfriends.

Bernard Shaw said something like: “A woman will prefer a tenth part of a first rate man to all of a second rate one.” He knew the score.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@trugingstar, re: “Marital intimacy is based in trust.” I agree. That’s why youg men are increasingly not bothering to marry ever, and more than half of adults are currently not married. We all have seen, since the sexual revolution, that women simply cannot be trusted to submt, cannot be trusted to stifle it, cannot be trusted not to betray confidences to social media friends, cannot be trusted to remain sexually available, cannot be trusted to follow, cannot be trusted to care, cannot be trusted to cook meals, cannot be trusted to do laundry, cannot be trusted to darn socks. Again… Read more »

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@trugingstar re: “but there’s no point to use “game,” or deception when marital intimacy is built on the opposite of that.”

I agree that Game is antithetical to True Intimacy, and to True Marriage, and to True Morality, etc. But it is *strictly* (modern) women’s fault for being such lousy wives (and such lousy pre-wives) that makes Game so seemingly necessary.

M Simon
7 years ago

trugingstar
November 22nd, 2014 at 5:06 pm

Uh. What makes you so good? Are you a sexually experienced submissive virgin? Do you know how to make a man happy? Can you get along with the other wives?

M Simon
7 years ago

theasdgamer
November 22nd, 2014 at 4:29 pm

The best solution for hypergamy is to keep your SO chasing you. Be careful that her insecurity doesn’t cause her to disqualify herself and give up the chase. Calibrate her emotional needs well. Tingles, comfort, validation, and drama.

So good it bears repeating.

M Simon
7 years ago

trugingstar
November 22nd, 2014 at 4:59 pm

Hypergamy/feminism the superior system? It is the natural system. Other systems can work if there is copious poverty. And the “upper” classes generally play the natural game. Which is why they were so often referred to as debauched. We are now all in that condition. At least in the West.

Christianity will not save us. Because it is not suitable for great wealth. It is a religion of poverty.

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

jf12, It’s not just trust, it’s the complete lack of discretion, discernment, and shame that makes trust near impossible. Even something as seemingly non-controversial as maintaining a budget is never ending fight when princess lacks the discernment to make sensible spending decisions, and when she overdrafts the checking account on something frivolous her lack of shame eliminates any discretion about posting a rant about the miserly, mean man who wants save a little money every month. Because intimacy, of the sort where fear and doubt can be expressed without punishment, is reserved for men who have neither fear nor doubt,… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

“Again I ask, what is it women think they are *for*?”

Ummm… for themselves?

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[…] haven’t been keeping up with the rational male but I caught his last post on intimacy and as usual it was very interesting.  I really love to […]

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@Badpainter, re: “Because intimacy, of the sort where fear and doubt can be expressed without punishment, is reserved for men who have neither fear nor doubt”

You’re allowed, nay *required*, to have (attractive, manly) weaknesses, provided you do it from a position of strength …

I agree, it’s all nonsense.

sfcton
7 years ago

Worrying about being judged is womanish. “Sure my guys knew my warts and vulnerabilities because I could tell them: “Yeah, I fucked that up. This is what I’m going to do next time . . .” Sure they’d watch me, waiting to see if I kept my word, but that is far different then a woman: she’ll shit-test you regardless. Telling her “I fucked up and this is what I’m going to do next time” exponentially increases the shit-tests into shrew territory.” Just so SJB. My crew knows me better then folks would imagine. We live together for long periods… Read more »

jimmythesaint
jimmythesaint
7 years ago

i got linked this video on my FB newsfeed. it covers everything rollo has ever elaborated on… as our topic of discussion is intimacy im beginning to think its dependant on stable SMV’s any change therefore would make whatever intimacy really is irrelevant. your on your own lets be honest. • Identity Crisis • Appreciation • Kill the Beta • Truth to Power • Have A Look • Dread Games • Navigating the SMV • The Medium IS the Message • The Gift of Anxiety • Just Get It • Operative Social Conventions • AFC Social Conventions • Paradox of… Read more »

rwnarrator
7 years ago

first post on here – have read this blog and CH religiously for 3 or 4 years now.

reason for posting – this was the best post ive seen on this blog. to me, it sums up the true Alpha; the Alpha that just flows and doesnt even know stopping to think about an “being Alpha”, exist.

caprizchka
7 years ago

“In fact the most frustrated men you’ll ever meet are those whose women aren’t intentionally using the power his qualifying for her intimacy bestows upon her. He wonders why he can never merit her intimacy, while she, obliviously, wonders why he keeps trying to merit it.”

Sounds like a dysfunctional mother/son relationship. What a turn off. Pack him off to summer camp.

New Yorker
New Yorker
7 years ago

@ton

If you are a happy man, congrats. I love everything in my life and where I see it going. Wish you and everyone here the same. If you like calling names, no skin off my back.

Emma the Emo
7 years ago

What is intimacy? Seems people define it differently. Some say sharing all feelings, doubts and weaknesses that come up is the definition. But no one really likes that. Men have a higher tolerance for that than women I suppose, but they don’t want a woman to display emotional incontinence. And because of that, I don’t believe true intimacy needs constant expressions of all feelings. Women don’t need to express their fears all the time to their men either. Your man or woman might really love you and want you to succeed, but if you keep being negative, it will stress… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Hobbes

it must truly be terrible to be a woman

Spoken like a man. Just like being a 98 lb. weakling sucks as man or being submissive sucks as a man. For a woman, not so much. She can get her man (cough-dull witted beast of burden-cough lol) to do the heavy lifting

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Emma

they don’t want a woman to display emotional incontinence

Is there Depends for women’s emotions? Because I don’t think that a lot of women have much emotional control. Are you always so controlled emotionally? You seem to get how men think pretty well, but good luck wiring yourself to actually behave like a man. It doesn’t sound like much fun or even possible.

When women show a lack of emotional control, it actually causes men to view them as more feminine and attractive. A little goes a long way, tho.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ narrator

the Alpha that just flows and doesnt even know stopping to think about an “being Alpha”,

You’re describing naturals. Self-taught alphas can also achieve this mindset.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ MSimon

So good it bears repeating.

Thank you kindly.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ trugingstar Women will probably keep lying to themselves that they can get married to alphas. Men will keep sleeping around. Oh, Idk. I married an uncirculated dime and I dropped a few panties in my time. I retired from pickup and eventually married and haven’t slept around (been married decades). Maybe I’m a unicorn? 40% of husbands don’t sleep around, tho. I married a unicorn. Hot guys want to marry unicorns if they marry. So, if a woman wants to marry an alpha, she needs to keep herself looking good, be submissive, sweet, loyal, warm, and fun–and lock the… Read more »

sfcton
7 years ago

Stating a fact is not name calling.

If a man’s frame is correct, strength and dominance, the woman’s fears etc drops considerably. Which is why a man sharing his bullshit with her freaks them out

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

With the Christmas season upon us, we should consider those less fortunate. We should conduct a study on virgin males and males who claim to be ‘sexually unsatisfied’. There should be a distinction made between men who are unsatisfied with the sex they’re having and men who are unsatisfied because they can’t get any sex at all. The test will consist of the perceived relatability to this song on a scale from 0-10, with 0 being not at all and 10 being 100%. The level of intimacy in a person’s life can be inferred from this data. There will of… Read more »

New Yorker
New Yorker
7 years ago

Of course a lack of frame freaks them out. But, the responsibility of the man is to face his life in whatever form with confidence and automatic frame. She wants to know that you are handling it and all will be fine, not that the world is a perfect, peachy place. Way too many guys seem to want to create paradise for their women. They don’t want it. They just want a man who goes forward without fear.

Myopia
Myopia
7 years ago

Meditation. God is the source for a man’s intimacy. I’m not speaking of the philosophical concept of god. There’s an absolute and unbelievable experience of energy that’s available through the physical body which cannot be found anywhere else. William Burroughs once said about heroin, “If God made anything better, he kept it for himself.” With that in mind, heroin is child’s play, there is something far better, and God loves to share. There’s a reason great gurus don’t look to other men or women for their happiness.

eon
eon
7 years ago

@ jf12 “I’ve never known a woman to be an actual help meet for a man.” When a woman greets her man enthusiastically, and is eager to show him the meal that she has prepared, and the things that she has done to enhance their home, she is being a helpmate. When a woman does tasks that are well within her capabilities, to free her man to focus on what only he can do, she is being a helpmate. And ways in which a woman can be an emotional helpmate are by being energetically appreciative and an adoring personal cheerleader.… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

When a woman cheats on a man, or vice versa, it’s not issues of trust (as every touchy-feely therapist will tell you) that make staying together an impossibility, it’s a simple lack of genuine desire which has manifest itself that can’t be ignored. Earning trust is easy compared to meriting genuine desire. Thanks for that Rollo. I instinctively told the first mate “Keep looking. If you find a better man for you – go for it.” She proved her genuine desire by coming back. Every time. She no longer looks. Well at least not so obviously. But I do my… Read more »

M Simon
7 years ago

Myopia
November 23rd, 2014 at 11:10 am

Try LSD and see.

M Simon
7 years ago

Way too many guys seem to want to create paradise for their women. They don’t want it. They just want a man who goes forward without fear.

Two thumbs up.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

Regarding trust–the lesser always trusts the greater. Children trust their parents, people trust God, and women should trust men.

Responsibility is different in a relationship. The lesser and greater have different responsibilities. Women have a responsibility to submit and men have a responsibility to care for the woman.

M Simon
7 years ago

theasdgamer,

Joe Katzman (“Winds of Change” a long time ago) suggested this blog and who do I find there?

http://www.justfourguys.com/the-unholy-alliance-of-feminists-and-tradcons/

Nice work.

jf12
jf12
7 years ago

@eon, re: “When a woman greets her man enthusiastically, and is eager to show him the meal that she has prepared, and the things that she has done to enhance their home, she is being a helpmate.” Yes. I didn’t say it was difficult for women to behave properly, I’ve said women women choose not to. re: “a car is not “pre-damaged” because it is not a plane, but you can damage it by driving it off a cliff.” The better analogy is this: A plane with its wings ripped off is not made into a “better” car by the… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ msimon

Nice work.

Thank you. I was quite surprised that no one at J4G (including commenters) followed my lead that the pedestalization of women was the main overlap of feminism and tradcons.

The pedestalization of woman is at the heart of so many problems.

Vektor
Vektor
7 years ago

I think intimacy is a feminine concept, and a BP one at that. Not unlike the concepts of romance or love. It is a feeling-based construct. Men, generally speaking, are beings of though, reason, logic, etc. Women live far more in the realm of feeling and thus women are the one who express and experience ‘intimacy’. My interpretation of intimacy is that it is an emotional state that mirrors the sexual state. In the sex act the female is surrendering, accepting, and willingly expressing her physical vulnerability to the male that performs sex on her. Both parties (hopefully) experience pleasure,… Read more »

sfcton
7 years ago

LOL the last thing women want is a paradise. they want drama and as I have said a thousand times, if you don’t crate a certain amount of drama for her, she will create it for you…. ie shit tests and more

The Ronin
7 years ago

The only lasting intimacy you can have with a woman is as a Alpha memory. The danger men face is going “all in”, believing they can have full intimacy with a woman. Once the Infatuation phase is over, Women are always looking for weakness, whereas men tend feel they are safe to open up once they have established a “solid relationship”. It’s the old story of Men thinking the game’s all done after the ring is on….but for Women the game has just begun and the goal posts are in constant motion. Most of us are not her first choice,… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
7 years ago

Vektor – “Intimacy is the expression of her emotional vulnerabilities to a man that listens emphatically and gives her emotional connection. Perhaps he shares something about himself, perhaps not. However, this is not an act of vulnerability for the male. If it is an expression of neediness or vulnerability by the male, it is something else, not intimacy.” The solution I’ve found to the whole sharing problem is to have a series of prepared stories that fulfill the superficial demands for expressing vulnerability and less than perfectly masculine emotions. Some of these stories are true others completely fabricated. I see… Read more »

stuttie
7 years ago

Scary that this is what blue pill counsellors at a Mens Helpline service advocate about men and intimacy

http://www.mensline.org.au/improving-relationships/men-and-intimacy

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Badpainter

I tell women about my experiences in the ophthalmology lab, where I slaughtered white bunnies. They think that it’s awful and that I’m a heartless jerk. Then I tell them that the experiments were research into catarrhact surgery and that the bunnies were blind from the surgery and that killing them was necessary for humane reasons. I don’t mention that I also butchered the bunnies because one of the researchers ate them.

Glenn
Glenn
7 years ago

@ trugingstar – You reek of arrogance and delusion.I normally do not comment on religion on forums or in my day to day dealings as people tend to get offended. My approach is “let’s keep all that shit to ourselves” and I do so until an arrogant dingbat opens his/her mouth about their religion, recommending it as a cure all for everything from alcoholism to marriage, lol, as you do here. You do realize that’s how you come off, yes? Like some peddler rolling into town, claiming magical powers for your new liniment. A snake oil sales hawker, and a… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Glenn

I normally do not comment on religion on forum

I think I speak for almost everyone here when I say that I strongly recommend that you practice this more consistently.

stuttie
7 years ago

@ trugingstar – A rational person rejects all human gods equally, because all of them are equally imaginary.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ stuttie

A rational person rejects all human gods equally, because all of them are equally imaginary.

Logic is real. Rational persons are imaginary. Rationalism is a failed philosophy. Rationalists are delusional. Gods? Who knows?

M Simon
7 years ago

theasdgamer
November 25th, 2014 at 9:13 am

I make a living from rationality. It makes up less than 10% of reality.

M Simon
7 years ago

theasdgamer November 23rd, 2014 at 5:28 pm Well I got it. The trouble with tradcons is that they don’t even understand their own religion. Once the woman chooses it is her job and his to see that she willingly and continuously submits. Especially his. He has to demand her submission but also continuously reinforce its advantages. “Aren’t you happier submitting?” Yes. “Have you lost anything that is worth what you have gained?” No. “Then you made a profit.” – That particular exchange absolutely floored the first mate. The concept of profit in personal relationships had eluded her. Plus the idea… Read more »

Chester
Chester
7 years ago

I thought that intimacy was: opening up to your partner and them opening up to you and showing each other who you really are but I’ve noticed that the more, I’ve opened myself to any women I’ve been with, attraction and desire decreased steadily until the end of the relationship. As so, I think men and women don’t share the same concept of intimacy. My desire is not dependent on my imagination of what or who the person secretly is to the extent that when they show me who they really are, i,m suddenly not attracted to them anymore. From… Read more »

Chester
Chester
7 years ago

‘Openness’ for me would be showing yourself as much as you really are as possible, unfiltered(*); but opening up implies being vulnerable. Which goes back to you recent post that I haven’t read yet

(*)which is an impossibility for anybody looking for a sexual relationship

Bluepillprofessor
Bluepillprofessor
7 years ago

@ BV: “my take is that if one enjoys a state of stable kindness, respect and good sex, put down stakes. It’s not going to get better than that.” Agreed. @JM: “the moment he achieves true intimacy he is the woman’s equal and thus her lust will no longer be existent… That is an amazingly succinct summary of the problem. I believe this is the causation of crazy women or the woman equivalent of the AFC. Their warped sense of intrinsic worth places them beneath the male in the relationship, and it essentially drives them mad with jealousy, fear, doubt,… Read more »

Francis
Francis
7 years ago

Hey Rollo, I’m a huge fan of your work and this is my first time posting a comment on one of your articles – mainly because I am in a place right now where your article on intimacy resonated so deeply with me as well as thoughts I am having regarding my LTR and maintaining my Alpha status. And also if any other contributors have insights to share regarding my situation I’d greatly appreciate it. Basically, I am in an LTR with a woman (1+ years) and I’ve noticed that during times like the Holiday season for example (Thanksgiving, Christmas,… Read more »

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[…] to write a post on these 3 topics about 2 months ago, and then Rollo had 3 posts on boundaries, intimacy, and vulnerability a month or so ago that pushed me to think about them more. So I finally have the […]

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