Validation Hunting & The Jenny Bahn Epiphany


About three weeks ago I was made aware of Jenny Bahn’s article, 30 is the New 50 which I thought was timely as it went beyond the xojane pablum where it first appeared to wider readership being picked up by Time. It was timely (heh) because it was right around the same week I published Alpha Agents of Righteous Karma and, coming from a fairly attractive woman, it highlighted many of the points I’d made in that post.

Commenter myreality asked me:

To what extent, if at all, do you think that validation hunting is part of male preference for large age differences when a man is in his late 30’s and beyond? It is definitely not 0%…

I think this is presuming a truth that isn’t.

The idea that men “seek validation” for their earned status or to ‘right’ past wrongs to their egos while they were working their way to that status is a social convention. The Feminine Imperative relies on memes and conventions which shift the ownership of women’s personal liabilities for their sexual strategy to men.

When men are blamed for the negative consequences of women’s sexual strategy it helps to blunt the painful truths that Jenny Bahn is (to her credit) honestly confronting in her article at 30 years old and the SMV balance shifts towards enabling men’s capacity to effect their own sexual strategy.

Have a look at my Sexual Market Value Graph. (click to enlarge)


Although I’ve gone into explaining the loose metrics I’ve based this graph on several occasions, I’ve added some arrows here to illustrate a point that often gets missed or simply blown over because the truths it represents aren’t very flattering. Women would rather men not be aware of their own SMV potential prior to women being able to consolidate upon her sexual strategy.

Popular culture never presumes women are ‘validation hunting’ when they’re enjoying their peak SMV potential at 23 and (by order of degree) indulging that opportunity with men while at their peak. Women are acculturated to feel “empowered” by their sexuality, and really, no guy who wants to bang a hot 23 year old woman is ever going to rebuke her for it, much less develop social conventions to limit their odds of doing so.

However, men enjoying peak SMV in their mid to late 30’s are (by default) presumed to be vindicating themselves and validating their “fragile egos” by dating the younger (and in Jenny Bahn’s case an SMV peaked 23 year old no less) women they naturally find more attractive.

If there is any ‘validation’ for SMV peaked men it’s less about the sense of deserving a hot piece of ass or vindication for the women of his peer age who found him sexually invisible until he hit his peak, and more about validation in a new self-awareness that he finally is in a position of choosing and qualifying women for his intimacy rather than being filtered for his own acceptability for so long.

It’s not about turnabout or fair play now that the sexual selection shoe is on the other foot, but simple deductive pragmatism for a man who is aware of his own SMV and, assuming he’s hasn’t hamstrung his ability to maneuver, wants to exercise that value at (presumedly) the top of his game.

It’s not (usually) that he’s made a conscious effort to make himself an Alpha Agent of Righteous Karma, but that he steps into that role by default when the SMV balance shifts to his favor, and he naturally prefers sexual access to the best physical, and most sexually available woman his newly recognized SMV will afford him. That may not be a 23 year old coed, but it might be with a necessitous 29 year old looking for a solution to her long term investment.

About Those Arrows

One very common (or deliberate) misunderstanding about this chart is the presumption that like should necessarily attract like. A lot of critics claim indignation over the idea that I was suggesting a 23 year old woman should be attracted to a 36-38 year old SMV peaked man. I’ve never proposed this scenario in any post I’ve ever written about SMV, but it’s important to understand the prioritizations of attraction women make during the later phases of their maturation.

Critics who like to presume that this attraction is only based on looks, prowess and virility often don’t take this attraction prioritization into account. Obviously a more youthful man is in better physical shape when he’s younger, and if all we were considering was short term mating prospects and the Alpha Fuck side of feminine hypergamy this graph would look much different. However, once a woman has reached 30 (thank you Ms. Bahn) those attraction (not arousal) priorities look much different.

The primary reason I placed men’s peak SMV in his mid to late thirties is because, if he’s made the most of his potential, this is when he is most likely to have established himself in his status, affluence and achievements while (if he’s maintained himself) still retaining the looks of a more mature man.

It’s exactly women’s sexual prioritization at their most necessitous which puts men at the top of their SMV game. As I’ve detailed in many prior posts, hypergamy wants optimization (Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks). Women’s pluralistic sexual strategy is optimized when a woman can consolidate a monogamous commitment from a man who can deliver a better genetic benefit and a better personal (providership) investment than her own SMV should realistically be able to warrant her.

In general, at no other point in a man’s life does he possess the a better potential to optimize women’s innate hypergamy.

If you follow the pink arrow, from about women’s 30th year that established SMV peaked man has the best potential to satisfy both aspects of the dualistic nature of hypergamy. It’s important to consider that when a woman reaches her 30s her sexual prioritization is affected by her own capacity to attract and hold male attention. What happens is a sort of subconscious establishing operation – as her capacity to attract becomes diminished, and as the next generation of SMV peaked women comes into their own, the urgency to cash out of the sexual market place increases.

So it’s not that the expectation should be one of 23 year old women wanting to get after it with 38 year old men (though this is exactly the scenario in Jenny Bahn’s story), but rather that 38 year old men increase exponentially in value to 30 year old women at a time when what he possess is what she needs the most.

Back in May a data set was released on Twitter from OKCupid founder Christian Rudder is his book Dataclysm: Who We Are (When We Think No One’s Looking)It’s a fascinating read actually and reinforces much of what I speculate about with regard to my own SMV graph.

Data_9780385347372_3p_all_r1.j.indd Data_9780385347372_3p_all_r1.j.indd

It’s important to remember that this data is based primarily on looks, but it illustrates the point of my adding the blue arrow to the graph. Men’s arousal and attraction triggers are virtually static. While men’s attraction value variates for women, it is a locked value for women.

While in her SMV peak – as we can see averaged her to around 22 – women enjoy the benefit of having the most sexual selectivity of their lives. However, the power of this selectivity declines as she ages and is further stressed by sexual competition as she does. And while men compete for sexual access to women, the sexual market value of the woman being competed for is still rooted in her capacity to attract attention and arouse men.

When in her SMV peak years, women’s preferences and sexual strategy supersede those of the men who would compete for her, however as she moves towards maturity, and as men ascend to their own SMV peak, a man’s preferences gradually take precedence over women’s.

Jenny Bahn, a reasonably attractive (former model) woman provides us with an excellent example of this transition.

Alex is 38. I’m 30. Technically, there are no “people our age.” But I’m starting to feel that a 30-year-old woman might as well be a 40-year-old man, though infinitely less desirable, culturally speaking.

At 40, a man is well into hitting his stride, something the guy I’m arguing with is all too aware of, as evidenced when he professes on multiple occasions, “I’m an amazing guy.” “We’re killing it. KILLING IT,” he tells me, while explaining that he’s been caught up in his rapidly expanding architecture firm.

[…]A 30-year-old woman is an undertaking, and it’s the real reason Alex has been putting me on the back burner for the past two months, telling me that I’m amazing and that he’s interested and then disappearing to hang out with a 23-year-old instead. Age ain’t nothing but a number, until it’s a number someone else doesn’t want to deal with.

As I mentioned in The Threat:

Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.

Jenny, like most women in their Epiphany Phase, is now coming to terms with the transition of sexual selection power from what she once no doubt enjoyed to a man who’s made the most of his maturity and potential she wants to consolidate on in long term monogamy.

Jenny has a rare honesty and insight to recognize this, but naturally the ‘validation’ social convention is there to assuage her predicament. Even in her self-acceptance of her situation Alex is colored with an uncooperative attitude. His perspective is ‘incorrect’ in a fem-centric social order. If he were really ‘mature’ he would be dating and marrying Jenny (a victim of her own past decisions) instead of seeking ‘validation’ with a 23 year old hottie.

The presumption of Alex validating himself with a hot 23 year old makes men his age, in general, more shallow or manipulative, or uncooperative with the mandates of a feminine-primary social order. A mature, established man shouldn’t want to date women in their 20s, he should cooperate with the Feminine Imperative and validate Jenny’s sexual strategy by becoming monogamous with her.

What Alex is doing isn’t seeking validation, it’s simple SMP pragmatism – the power of sexual selectivity (though by no means unilateral) has switched in degree to his favor. Alex is enjoying his peak SMV and a large portion of that value comes from his desirability from women like Jenny; women who delayed capitalizing on their SMV peak and now, at 30, find themselves on the necessitous side of that sexual selectivity.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

316 comments on “Validation Hunting & The Jenny Bahn Epiphany

  1. “Girls who, in my experience, are less impressive, less striving, less volatile, less successful, less intimidating, less questioning, less pressing, less complex, less damaged, less opinionated, less powerful, less womanly.”

    They’re MORE womanly, bitch.

  2. @ Other than Eon – Read the article and make your own mind up. It is more complicated than the title would seem but it’s still worth knowing, isn’t it? And all I did was laugh about it, not assert it as a scientific certainty.

    Really though, I did that just for Eon, as sending him into a tizzy is so easy it’s just hard to resist. That was a bit troll-like of me. But you should know that Eon is merely demonstrating motivated reasoning, not sharing some blistering truth he possesses. There is also something possibly pathological about his rage, I’m not sure what’s going on with him. But I did this to bait him and I guess that’s crappy of me. But I’m not sorry, so there it is.

    I don’t “believe” in game or disbelieve in it. I think it is like many of our ideas about human society. Some of it is likely correct, at least directionally. But I also de-link my Red Pill observations from game. There is an entire world out there which is looking at human intersexual dynamics that has nothing to do with PUAs and game. I think many here talk about game in a much broader way than I do.

    Game is the idea that a man can improve his chances of having sex with a particular woman via the techniques, tactics and strategies it recommends to use to get this women into bed versus the chances he would without game. Negging and peacocking have little scientific basis, and shit tests don’t have much of one either for example. There – of course – is some basic psychology at work that is indeed valuable to know.But some of these ideas are nothing new as well. I mean is it really a shocker that confidence is important when approaching a stranger and trying to strike up a conversation with them? Hint: It takes confidence to do so with a man too and many will blow you off and not pay attention to you. People who talk for strangers for a living (like I do) have long known this. Indirect versus direct conversation starters? Been around since sales was invented.

    The larger ideas of feminine imperative and gynocentrism preceded PUAs by 30+ years as well , PUAs parrot them, they didn’t discover these ideas. Read Warren Farell or others.

    What I do love about game is embracing masculinity and the game that we find ourselves in. I love the commitment of self-improvement, making real improvements to who I am as a person and as an object of attraction to others, women particularly, but all people respond to good looks and higher value when dealing with me. Whether it’s looks, talent, brains, physical prowess, I really like making my life about continuous self-improvement. I enjoy embracing being aggressive and approaching a lot and being self-centered. These are all great things that I’m getting out of game, but also out of the larger Red Pill awareness that I’ve developed.

    But the “techniques”? They remind me of cheap sales techniques that never work in the real world either.

    Until I see an experiment that uses a control like I mentioned in the comments on the last article, I find myself skeptical. For those of you not following along at home, it was this. Krauser or Roosh makes 200 approaches. Then a man without any game training and similar SMV goes and makes 200 approaches to the same women in similar circumstances. We compare the results. We could also make it a bigger experiment, use some sampling of women and mulitiple PUAs and non PUAs with different SMV and physical attributes – wait, that would be really hard to do. And of course there have been no such experiments. All we have are self-reports, lol. In science that’s known as horseshit. It might be true, but that’s the best you’ve got – might. And since those doing the reporting are making a living off selling these ideas, their reports must be discounted, sorry – that’s called exercising prudential judgment. Whether you guys here like it or not, that’s the reality of the credibility of game peddlers.

    And before I get a lecture about how game works for you, realize that all you are doing is a lousy impersonation of Krauser/Roosh – you are still giving subjective reports with no controls to make it a legitimate experiment. Also, I approach all the time and have for my whole fucking life so don’t talk to me like I don’t know what’s what, folks. In fact, I likely did better with women without game than most of you are ever going to do with game, so get a grip. Deal with the fact that if you are certain about game and think all of this “works”that there isn’t a great empirical basis for that belief (your subjective observations are not empirical proof with much value, sorry). It may be true, it may not. Me? Like many ideas in this sphere of inquiry, I believe the truth probably lies somewhere in between, and I’m okay with this being uncertain. I’m not that invested in it being right or wrong, but I thought this was the only place in the manosphere where I could have such a discussion. It seems that isn’t so, which is quite disappointing. But here’s the beautiful thing about the web. I just don’t click the subscribe to posts button and voila, the next email I get is about Rollo’s next post versus Eon losing his shit over my lack of scientific rigor. What he doesn’t get is that he’s only pretending he’s being scientifically rigorous. I don’t pretend to be doing science, I’m just evaluating claims and reasoning and evidence, and this is where i come out. None of you have to agree with me, and that’s fine by me. But if you attack me like a shithead, such as Eon does, don’t expect me to be polite. I don’t take shit from anyone – not in real life and not online.

    So, disagree, great. It’s not an issue for me as I’m really comfortable with my Red Pill journey. Just got back from the gym, went up weight tonight on chest and pushed the intensity with my amazing trainer. I get muscle growth out of every high intensity workout I do with this guy, the progress is simply amazing. I was sandwiched between two post wall late 30 somethings in the store tonight afterwards and both couldn’t stop sneaking looks at me. I just smiled and rolled on. After all, Nichole is coming for the weekend and there is something about a 25 year old woman that they can’t match. Like her smell. Women under 30 just smell better. Their skin is nicer too, soft and supple and smooth. Yummy.

    See you all next time.

  3. There’s been times when I’ve met and have been attracted to men in their mid 40’s-50’s and some of them have admitted a mutual attraction to me as well. Men in these age ranges are 15-25 years older than me and while I didn’t have an issue with the age gap, they did, and have stated that’s the reason they don’t ask me out in spite of their attraction. I’m 31, but am still slim, attractive, with an n=0 (including no kissing) and I’m often mistaken to be in my early to mid 20’s, (Yeah, I know, what some of you are probably thinking…”all the delusional 30 plus biotches say they look younger.” but I kid you gentleman not.
    Anyways, my point is that contrary to what’s often stated in the Sphere, being (or even just looking)much younger than a man can actually work against some women in certain cases. Like I’ve said, I’ve come across men in their mid 40’s to late 50’s who I’ve found quite attractive, and my interest in them was not because I can’t attract younger men; or because I’m desperate to marry and have babies, but because I genuinely liked and was attracted to them. I’m also educated, have a decent job so I’m not looking for a “sugar Daddy” either and while I don’t get along with my Father, it hasn’t left me with “Daddy” or trust issues with Men. What I’m confused about is this; if most of you keep claiming that even Middle aged Men will always prefer early 20’s Women over their older counterparts, then why I am, at 31, being told by men in this age range that I’m “too young” for them?

  4. ” . . . why I am, at 31, being told by men in this age range that I’m “too young” for them?”

    Because you are too young for the women they have to deal with. Feminine Imperative blowback. Your sisters have thrown you under the bus.

    Disclaimer of Bias: I am more than 25 years older than you. You are too old for me.

  5. “Because you are too young for the women they have to deal with. Feminine Imperative blowback. Your sisters have thrown you under the bus.”

    This may be true if they were the type who let others dictate their dating life, but they’re not. On a side note, some of them later did marry and it was to women who were older than I.

    “Disclaimer of Bias: I am more than 25 years older than you. You are too old for me.”

    LOL, Woe is me:)

  6. “Men after 50 still NEED sex.”

    Do men (or women) at any age NEED sex?

    What happens to the brain? Is there really anything significant that happens on a real physiological level that would warrant sex as an actual *need*?

    Is there any actual biological harm that results from not having sex? There is no evidence that not having sex, in and of itself as an independent variable, causes any problems.

    Speculations and anecdotes and armchair philosophies and theories, sure. But no actual evidence. Outside of fruit flies deprived of sex tending to become alcoholics I really haven’t found anything on the topic. Which is almost hilarious. I mean really.

    But seriously. Classifying something as a NEED is serious business. If you really believe that something as subjective as sex is a need, you’re giving it an awful lot of power over you. People could then start blaming sexual frustration for emotional and psychological problems that could have absolutely nothing to do with sex at all. Not a good scenario.

    The whole area of touch and sexuality and the actual biological significance of those things is really fascinating. To my knowledge it just isn’t a well-studied topic, if it even has really been studied at all. Harlow did a bit with those rhesus monkeys but beyond that there really isn’t much out there. The lack of information is pretty staggering.

    I would definitely be careful with the word “need” and not throw that around so loosely.

  7. ” . . .some of them later did marry and it was to women who were older than I. ”

    Q.E.D.; I can point to the target, but I can’t make you hit it. Much of the dictating was done by the time they were 5. It was drilled in to “instinct” well before they were out of high school. By women. In order to ensure a supply of older men for middle aged widows and divorcees.

    “LOL, Woe is me:)”

    Yeah, I know, but the point is that you are stuck in No Woman’s Land, to old for a Musician Bad Boy ™ who really doesn’t give a damn about the clucking hens; but not yet old enough to be a middle aged widow or divorcee that the hens will allow for an older man.

  8. If nothing else, as a guy, by the time you reach age 40, you’ve generally learned a lot about women (behavior, wants/needs, shit tests, etc) and you know how to deal. You’re your own man, focus on your own self-improvement, have standards, and don’t put up with bad behavior from women.

    Just having that frame, you’ll do alright.

  9. Sex is absolutely a human need and it is good for us. There is no escaping it. We are “programmed” with this instinctual drive and it is powerful. Be honest, it is manifested compulsively and consistently in some way with each person unless the person is biologically deformed.

  10. I think the mere existence of this blog and the manosphere in general proves that men need sex. You can split hairs if you want, but male prisoners even do each other when there is no alternative. Tell them that sex is just a want. LOL.

    Only low libido people would say that sex is not a need, because, well, for them it isn’t – by definition.

  11. BTW,

    I’m happy to hear that some commenters find post-menopausal women to still be enthusiastic and inspired lovers. This can only be a good thing for all men as they age.

  12. @Softek writes:

    If you really believe that something as subjective as sex is a need, you’re giving it an awful lot of power over you.

    This is a joke, right?

    If you really believe that something as subjective as drinking clean, non-toxic fluid is a need,
    you’re giving it a lot of power over you.

    If you really believe that something as subjective as eating at least a few times per week is a need,
    you’re giving it a lot of power over you.

    People tend to live longer when hydrated. The body needs food on a regular basis too for survival.

    Hydration and nourishment are needs that, like sex, extend life.

  13. “Q.E.D.; I can point to the target, but I can’t make you hit it. Much of the dictating was done by the time they were 5. It was drilled in to “instinct” well before they were out of high school. By women. In order to ensure a supply of older men for middle aged widows and divorcees.”

    I’m sorry but this doesn’t make sense. You’re telling me that grown Men allow “old hens” to dictate who they date because by the time they were out of high school it was “drilled into “instinct?” Do you have actual sources?

    “but the point is that you are stuck No Woman’s Land, to old for a Musician Bad Boy ™ who really doesn’t give a damn about the clucking hens; but not yet old enough to be a middle aged widow or divorcee that the hens will allow for an older man”

    I’m not stuck into “No Woman’s Land” and the Musician Bad Boy was NEVER my type. Not at 21 and not now, at 31.Considering how many Middle aged Men rant about how “old and ugly” women their age are, I find it hard to believe that if they’re looking for a partner, they would still choose women from this age group when they have the option to date much younger, but choose not to simply because of some arbitrary rule that you claim bitter middle aged women made up. I regularly read various Red Pill Manosphere blogs and I’ve never heard of such a thing. And for the record, a lot of older women have no issue with men their age getting with younger chicks. I’m in my early 30’s and I often see men my age and even 20 years older dating and getting serious with young woman in their early 20’s. If “clucking hens” don’t try to oppose these guys from dating women nearly 10 years younger than me, than I hardly they would be manipulated into not dating a 30 plus year old.

  14. I go to a pizzeria where there is this 18 yr old girl who practically drips every time I walk in- again, I am in my 40s. She doesn’t have daddy issues, her dad seems like a good man, and is still in the home.. we’re just attracted to each other. Yet I don’t move in.
    Well, I have a few plates already, two of them mid 20s. But mosly it’s because even though I could care less about what society thinks, it can turn out to be a headache we sometimes just don’t want to put up with. Like it or not, alot of people will make alot of problems once they see you with a much much younger woman. This place being near work, where lots of colleagues go as well, if it goes sour with her, it might follow me back to work. But mostly, society deal very violently with men as it is and the plan to control mens sexuality through force if necessary is very real.
    It doesn’t take much for society to put into her head that you are taking advantage of her, hurting her etc, especially once your done with her and move on.
    Never underestimate the ability of a young woman to fall for you and act out in extreme ways. Hell, learned that even before RP or Game entered my life. Manginas, white knights and bitter crones will all conspire to use every trick in the book to ruin you.
    Although I do make sure to keep her hooked and dripping in case I change my mind 😉

    Another thing is how intoxicating young women can be. When the chemistry is right with a younger woman, forget all the rationalizations and reasons.. the truth is simply biology.. I can feel a hunger and a desire that exceeds even what I felt as a young man. Call it pheremones, call it whatever you like, but when an 18-21 yr old woman is truly attracted to you and you her, her glow, her scent her appearance hit you like no drug can.

  15. @Confused re: “why I am, at 31, being told by men in this age range that I’m “too young” for them?” + “I often see men my age and even 20 years older dating and getting serious with young woman in their early 20’s.”

    I agree there seems to be confusion. Rather than asking you to clarify, I’ll suggest maybe the older men you seem attracted to do not want to have children with you.

  16. Hi Rollo,

    I do not know if you have seen this article, so I am posting it here because it fits very well with your SMV curve:

    The gist of the article is: “For male movie stars, earnings steadily rise until age 51, when things level off. For women, the peak comes 17 years earlier, and it’s followed by a sudden drop.”

    A difference of 17 years: exactly what your graph describes, too.

    Thanks for this website. I have learned a great deal here. Keep up the great work!

  17. “Well, I have a few plates already, two of them mid 20s. But mosly it’s because even though I could care less about what society thinks, it can turn out to be a headache we sometimes just don’t want to put up with. Like it or not, alot of people will make alot of problems once they see you with a much much younger woman.”

    Thanks for your comment. I guess I can understand how some people’s reaction to an older man/much younger woman couple could cause some grief, but if he genuinely liked the young woman, couldn’t there be an option of maybe just waiting a few years until she’s a bit older if that would mean less of a headache and judgement for you as a couple? Also, if you’re dating women in their mid 20s and your in your 40’s don’t you already have to deal with that kind of thing? Or do find people are more accepting of larger age gaps when the younger woman enters her mid-20’s?

    “Never underestimate the ability of a young woman to fall for you and act out in extreme ways. Hell, learned that even before RP or Game entered my life. Manginas, white knights and bitter crones will all conspire to use every trick in the book to ruin you.”

    And that really is unfortunate. But do you think that reaction is as common when the younger women are around mid-20’s-early 30’s and the older men are in their 40’s-50’s?

    “Another thing is how intoxicating young women can be. When the chemistry is right with a younger woman, forget all the rationalizations and reasons.. the truth is simply biology.. I can feel a hunger and a desire that exceeds even what I felt as a young man. Call it pheremones, call it whatever you like, but when an 18-21 yr old woman is truly attracted to you and you her, her glow, her scent her appearance hit you like no drug can.”

    Yes, women in this age group can be quite beautiful as they are in their prime. But I’m just curious to know if much older men ever develop feelings of actual love for these young women, or is it mainly lust and desire?

  18. @ jf12

    “I agree there seems to be confusion. Rather than asking you to clarify, I’ll suggest maybe the older men you seem attracted to do not want to have children with you.”

    Thanks for your comment. I don’t think that I want to have children for various reasons and the older men I’ve met know this as well. However, if their reason for not pursuing anything with me is because they don’t want to have children with me, do you think it’s because men that age generally don’t want kids at all (or more of them if they’re widowed or divorced) or that they possibly do, but would just want someone younger and more fertile to carry them?

  19. @Confused- The fact is mid 20s, it no longer even is an issue- for me at least. And if you are 30 and men in their 40s are saying your too young- well thats just weird. I am mid 40s and that age isn’t an issue in the sense of “being too young”
    I suspect guys are telling you that for one of many other reasons. A woman in her 30s we assume is looking to “nail you down” and if that is not what a guy wants, he may just be avoiding the hassle. I also think it may be some form of lame game. I remember reading somewhere that you should tell women they are “too young” for you because it somehow raises their interest and switches the roles- i.e. she is too young for you, not you being to OLD for her. It’s kind of a reframe. I figured if a young woman is attracted to me, she is well aware of the age difference, and may bewhy she is why bother caring about it.
    I honestly don’t really care what age a woman is, I simply ask myself if I am attracted to her and want sex with her. If yes, then I do. But then again, I have always- even in my blue pill days- been a person who thumbed his nose at social conventions. But there are alot of guys who are completely brainwashed. I’ve met guys who swear they think going out with younger women to pedophilia- without exception, these are always the bluest pill, “nice guys” I’ve met

  20. ” . . . you should tell women they are “too young” for you because it somehow raises their interest . . .”

    Young girls don’t mind being thought of as young. They absolutely cannot stand being thought of as “immature,” and will move heaven and earth to prove the assessment wrong.

    Some few of them even manage to mature at least a bit in the process.

  21. @rollo or anyone else who knows for that matter.
    How did hypergamy fare under communism where there were no social classes defined by income?

  22. @Confused re: fertility.

    No, a man in his 40s isn’t going to think a 31 yr old women is substantially less fertile than when she was a few years younger. But nowadays what with contraception and all, the main way a woman gets pregnant is when she wants to. Hobbes put it this way “A woman in her 30s we assume is looking to “nail you down” and if that is not what a guy wants, he may just be avoiding the hassle.”

    I’m more than twice your age, but for various reasons I tend to find women in their 20s and 40s more attractive than women in their 30s. I don’t know if it’s the psychological effects of the Wall or what, but when I was primarily dating women in their 30s, three decades ago, they were essentiall all nutso, in the clinical sense, totally confused about what they wanted and not amenable to direction, by me anyway.

  23. @mickel, originally the male Bolshevik leaders went along with the women’s demands for free love and the abolishment of marriage. The young women left the farms and flocked to the cities to party down with Party leaders. But with the “failures” of contraception, despite upwards of 20 or 30 million abortions, the young women started getting pregnant with unwanted children, and the young men left behind on the farms ceased working. The 10 million orphans starving on the streets failed to motivate women, so by the late 1920 as Stalin was getting power, marriage was reinstituted and the women were forced, crying, back onto the farms at gunpoint.

  24. “How did hypergamy fare under communism where there were no social classes defined by income?”
    Well my wild and unsupported guess would be
    1) most women “marry” the State as their all-knowing, all-providing overlord. Become obsessed with “The Party” and worming their way into it as a way of approaching the godhood of the Apparatus and being noticed.
    2) a lucky minority are sexeh enough to hitch a ride with the alpha thugs of the Security Services and their (collectively) unbridled power, usually up to and including arbitrary life or death, and access to special privileges and state resources, i.e. everybody else’s wallets homes, crops and children, since “everything” belongs to the State.

    3) when classes 1) and 2) have eaten, drunk, burned, pissed up the wall and generally wasted every scrap of surplus, as was their intention all along, the productive class has been forced into unproductive slavery, and no more value can be squeezed from the starving, pissed-off stones of the “less-equal” comrades, the upper layer will turn on each other viciously, and may foment external war as a distraction and a way of annihilating the “useless eaters” (the former working class).

    4) then they’re knocked over from the outside with ridiculous ease, by a more coherent society which doesn’t view Qin Dynasty- or Sumerian- type absolutism as a tenable way to maintain a stable civilization, and gets and keeps the guys at the bottom onside by letting them have a substantial share of the crumbs from the top table. Instead of fuck-all.

  25. Confused, I think it’s highly unlikely you’re not connecting with the older men you reference because you’re “too young.” Because A) you’re not; B) the explanation (“you’re too young”) is just too disingenuous. I’d suggest you reflect on other reasons, which the men do not wish to articulate to you.

    Women are hell on wheels when they encounter a man in their age cohort who is dating someone 20-30 years younger. I ‘date’ my daughter in NYC, which is supposed to be sophisticated, and the middle aged women in the restaurants sneer, elbow, block, complain. (They think she’s a lover, not a daughter.) It got so bad that I started saying very loudly whenever I had the opportunity “My DAUGHTER will have …” etc.

    Oh, and the men with the middle aged women gape, which further inflames the wives. The last time at 21, one of the men actually walked up to me and asked me how I met her (he was with his wife); our waiter shook my hand. Weird scene. That was the night the woman to my left actually threw an elbow when I transited between our closely-placed tables.

    If there’s an age gap, women and feminist men are taught to react as Korth directs: to shame and ostracize a man for not sexing up someone his own age (or older, which delivers extra feminist brownie points). That will be true if it’s 45-25, 55-35, 65-45. The cattiness, anger and ostracism will always be there with some significant percentage of the population.

  26. “That was the night the woman to my left actually threw an elbow when I transited between our closely-placed tables. “

    That’s another bit of grit in the oyster of old on-the-shelf women.

    Relentlessly gratuitous misbehaviour on anything like licensed premises that would embarrass a football hooligan. They’re invariably sozzled, and they make for mean drunks. A lifetime of deference from all and sundry has taught them that they are forever protected from any kind of retaliation.
    Hide the knives. Or don’t go to those places. Take her bowling.

  27. re: Confused but not @Confused. I bet most men reading here suspect Confused is completely fabricating the part about her being healthy and attractive and never-been-kissed at 31. I have known many such women throughout my life, probably because I’m so heavily plugged in to both the hyperintellectual scientific and the fundamentalist evangelical Christian communities.

    All were voluntarily celibate, mostly for religious reasons, partly because of their inability to discern good-enough men, partly because of lack of desire typically enunciated as “I don’t know if I want any children, or not.”

  28. Tam, we go where we want, as I now enjoy the shaming efforts. Oddly, my daughter does too, and we joke about it.

    Another dynamic that I’ve noticed a few times: when we go to a ‘hip’ place where the wait staff is 20’s-30’s, some of the waitresses linger and flirt with me. So then I am witnessing what we call preselection, as I presume they are saying to themselves (or just intuiting, more likely) “she’s got a sugar daddy I want one too”.

  29. @BV re: preselection. First, unnerstan I’m not talking trash about your girl.

    Since I was so very clueless for so very long, I was/am often in the company of respectable women who were/are clearly out of my league. This squiring led/leads to a lot of interest by other women in the respectable *women*, such as “Ooh, I just love your shoes! Where did you get them? And where did you get a guy like that? I need me one too.”

    It was only after I let myself be seen in the company of disrespectable women that other women began initiating things with me. I think women bother competing when they think they can win.

  30. To add to the age difference data base.

    When I finally finished University and got started on my career after some detours, I was 28 years old. I started dating an old student of mine from a sports camp I had taught at, she was 18. She was the “good girl” we all mythologize around these parts. Smart, tall, slinky, great ass, wonderful friendly demeanor, agreeable, no baggage, n=1 count before me. She walked as if she was still learning to use her newly grown legs like a little fawn.

    My peer group of men simply could not believe my audacity at doing this but they quickly gave me high fives for tapping the best ass in a country mile. The ladies in peer group were scathing to say the least. It was a direct assault on their sensibilities and social conventions (Insert feminine imperative here) and they were not happy in the slightest.

    Sadly I blew it when she went off to University herself and I went all blue pill. Too bad as I had the virgin whore thing nailed completely and her parents after initial trepidation came to love me and even offered me $100K if I simply eloped and saved them the wedding drama.

    A year later I was briefly dating her sport partner, also ten years my junior. rinse wash repeat on social scalding, “***** is a pedophile, lock up your daughters” was to be heard far and wide.

    My retort, “She’s 18 and she gives head like a champion and has no emotional baggage, have fun with your dildo ladies”.

    It only got awkward when I went to the first girls high school prom, approached the bar and order two cocktails to be rebuked by the bar tender, “Dude, this is a high school prom, there is no booze”.

  31. JF, no worries.

    I have to say, recent experiences have rattled me a bit and disagree with your ‘respectable woman’ paragraph. I truly wonder if we’re at a point now with Rollo’s ‘open hypergamy’ idea where even ‘respectable women’ feel entitled, or at least interested in speculating on, some extracurricular sexy time. I suppose there are huge populations of ‘respectable women’ but they seem to be the ones who have traded out of sex for food.

    I would document this with some recent anecdotes but I do too much of that.

  32. @ LiveFearless

    Oh no, I’m not joking. I’m being very serious.

    **Before I forget**

    We don’t need sex for individual survival. Not satisfying the biological drive to eat and drink will result in death. Not satisfying the biological drive to have sex — what exactly will happen? And can the variable of not having sex be isolated?

    I understand not wanting to split hairs over it, and how that can be used as a means to repress sexual desire/pursuing satisfaction. I’d be in complete agreement with you there, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

    I’m just curious about the actual physiological effects of sex as well as the lack of it. What’s really going on there? Calling sex an actual *need* is a very substantial statement.

    And if we don’t clearly establish what the physiological effects actually are, anyone can just make up any story they want in their mind.

    e.g., justify being anxious, depressed, frustrated, or anything else. Blame it on not having sex. But how can we really isolate that variable? Is it really a lack of sex or is it just our resistance to letting go of the idea that sex is so important and that we need it so much?

    I’m a very big advocate of proper nutrition. And I’ve experienced miraculous results from changing my diet and lifestyle and taking supplements, in terms of mental illness. I’ve been ‘diagnosed’ with everything from depression and anxiety to bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. After years of exhaustive independent research and experimenting on myself I finally started getting results, and my daily stress and anxiety levels have plummeted to almost nothing. I haven’t had a psychotic episode in over 4 years.

    I bring that up because I do believe in *OPTIMAL* nutrition. Sex might be better compared to *OPTIMAL* nutrition — not absolutely required for survival, but required for survival at the highest and healthiest level. e.g. Thriving vs. Surviving.

    You don’t *NEED* optimal nutrition to survive, but a lack of optimal nutrition can contribute to depression, anxiety, and a whole host of other mental/physical (one and the same really) illnesses. I don’t believe there are any mental illnesses that can’t be helped to at least some degree by proper and personalized nutrition.

    Anyway, back to sex: the idea that we need it to thrive is just an armchair theory until actual evidence is brought to the table. Our body requires nutrients to function. If sex is similar to a nutrient, what is the nutrition that it actually provides, and how essential is it to the thriving of the human organism?

    I’ve mentioned circumcision before. Alexithymia is mentioned in that article I linked, and I’ve also read quite a bit linking Alexithymia to circumcision. I believe there’s clear evidence for the importance of the foreskin in sexual pleasure and the capacity for intimacy.

    There is plenty of evidence that an intact penis is the healthiest for having pleasurable, intimate sex, and that it serves important functions for that. And that circumcision causes a tremendous amount of psychological and physical harm.

    But it still doesn’t cover the topic of sexual deprivation, or simply the absence of having sex. I don’t doubt that sex can have health benefits, but I question whether they’re benefits that can’t be gotten any other way, or if they’re even really needed in order to thrive.

    We’re biologically driven to eat and drink. If we don’t, we’ll die. We’re biologically driven to have sex. If we don’t, what will happen? It’s not anywhere near as clear cut and there are a lot more variables that come into play, whereas food and water are independent variables that can be linked to very predictable outcomes.

    @ George

    This brings to mind another question. What’s the difference, physiologically, between masturbation and intercourse? I’ve read some studies showing that the levels of prolactin released post-ejaculation are different in masturbation groups vs. groups having actual sex, but outside of that, not much.

  33. Signed up to Ashley Madison a while back, for research only!


    The amount of married woman, who “just want someone to have fun with that is missing in my marriage” is amazing. Finger count, about 35-40 percent.

    Open hypergamy is well on its way boys. et those condoms ready!

  34. Softek, the Catholic Church is a good example of what happens when sex is forcibly denied. Children get hurt.

    If on the other hand, through awareness or just plain fucking yourself out, you drop sex, then there will be no adverse repercussions.

  35. @jf12
    “I bet most men reading here suspect Confused is completely fabricating the part about her being healthy and attractive and never-been-kissed at 31”
    I admit that it’s uncommon for a healthy, attractive 31 year old to have never been kissed but the fact is, in my case, it’s true. Part of this is due to personal values and other reasons are because I went through some things early in life that really hindered my ability to interact and meet men for the possibility of a relationship. I didn’t go on my first date until I was 26 and even then, all we did was hold give each other a couple hugs and hold hands.Yes, seriously. However, I’ve since overcome the things from my childhood that held me back socially and romantically, and I don’t think these issues from the past would impede my ability to have a healthy relationship.

    “All were voluntarily celibate, mostly for religious reasons, partly because of their inability to discern good-enough men, partly because of lack of desire typically enunciated as “I don’t know if I want any children, or not.”

    I’m also one of those women who is pretty sure that I don’t want kids, even though I do like them. I’m just not keen on having any of my own. However, this doesn’t mean I lack desire, I do have a libido, it’s just very well controlled because I just don’t agree with sleeping with someone who isn’t going to be around in the long run.

  36. @confused,
    Assuming you’re not trolling (and I don’t think you are at this point) your ‘confusion’ is rooted in the fact that you are what I call a ‘Late Term Virgin’:

    I don’t know what your reasonings are for n=0, never kissed, but at 31 this is a huge red flag you’re still clinging to an adolescent social skill set. To the Men you’re attracted to in their 40-50s, who’ve mature well beyond any self-defeating obligation to sort you out, this is a non-starter.

    Now, if you’re a troll, your response will be, “you stupid men need to make up your minds, do you want a sweet unspoiled virgin or a used up slut?” to which I’ll reply…

    Simply put there are experiences and opportunities for personal growth that only embracing our sexuality can offer. One point I regularly make with respect to AFCs is that at some stage in their maturation they became retarded. I use “retarded” in the clinical, not the derogatory sense here; their social maturation becomes held up by their lack of access to experiences that would help them develop new cognitive models. Most of the time this is due to an inability to see past old conventions they learned in adolescence which halts them from passing to the next level so to speak. The problem with saving oneself for marriage becomes apparent in this. I’m not saying there is no merit in it, just that most people subscribing to it blindly do so without understanding the limitations inherent in it.

  37. @Softek, you do need sex:

    The unhealthy disconnect here is that human beings do in fact need sex. We can attach other ephemeral aspects to the sex act (or masturbation if that’s the only recourse), like love, emotion, commitment, etc., but on a base level your body needs sexual release in one form or another. Yes, you can willfully override the need, just like you can overcome hunger while you’re fasting or on a hunger strike, but the need is still the operative in that act of will. Once hunger, breathing and thirst are satisfied, sex is the single most influential drive the human species (really, most any species) is motivated by. Society is driven by sex, cultures evolve around it and personal achievements, as well as horrible atrocities are the result of our inborn prompt to satisfy our sexual urges.

    Sigmund Freud once said, “all energy is sexual”, meaning that subliminally we will redirect our motivation for ungratified sexual impulse to other endeavors. Thus it’s men, being the sex with the highest amount of libido inducing testosterone, who must look for far more outlets to transfer this motivation to than women. So is it any real surprise that it’s historically been Men who’ve primarily been the empire builders, the conquerors, the creators, and destroyers who’ve (for better or worse) moved humanity the most significantly?

  38. @Glenn,

    …and shit tests don’t have much of one either for example.

    Oh really? Perhaps we should ask the 51 year old “sexiest man alive” about that?

    Until I see an experiment that uses a control like I mentioned in the comments on the last article, I find myself skeptical.

    I guess you still haven’t bothered with the Dr. Martie Hasselton studies I linked there and have been on my side bar links since I started RM?

    And as I pointed out in that article, Game doesn’t happen in a vacuum, which is precisely the reason PUAs (for better or worse) have been the data collectors that traditional controlled academic science cannot be. Observing a process will change that process.

  39. denihilist: 35-40% of married women are free-ranging.

    That’s in the ballpark of what this woman said. (She says it’s a little higher, but who knows, and anyway, there is no Average Woman.)

    I read these books and started making small disreputable, ironic comments to three highly reputable married women friends, each of whom I’ve known for years in a completely reputable manner (my historical frame with marrieds). I made one such deniable comment to each of three. One of them propositioned me in a long email. One invited me to ‘stop in and see her’ while her husband was preparing their new home 1000 miles a way. The third gave me a chaste hug and said, “That’s funny.”

    I found this a bit unnerving, but it certainly complies with the RT Open Hypergamy model, in which Leaning In women (this little sample are professionals) segregate, and separately address, desire and commitment, sex and partnership. I’m not sure a man can go back to trying to be Atticus Finch once he sees this stuff.

    I am not Tom Brady, incidentally. I limp, have facial scars, and can’t raise my left arm with more than five pounds at the moment. I am 8, 15, and 14 years older than the three women mentioned.

  40. @Glenn

    Whenever I hear that Game is “unscientific” and does not work or that shit-tests do not exist, I always wonder in what kind of world guys live who do not see this behavior?

    I talked with quite a few women and they start observing the commonly known Red Pill behavior suddenly. I’ve read plenty of articles even in the mainstream where female journalists took part in PUA-bootcamps in order to write scathing articles about them, but usually they come back writing long exposes in the tone of: “Shit – this stuff could really work!” It is one thing reading about it on some blog and another seeing it in action and having it demonstrated in real life by a short ginger guy with average looks or by a bald overweight guy in his 40s (both examples of bootcamps the journalists have written articles about).

  41. Of the 40>50 women I’ve had sex with, two of them were over 16 years older than I was at the time. I can tell you from experience, nailing those women (both on a semi-regular basis) was largely a novelty for me. They looked good enough to bang and I simply wanted to see if the ‘more experienced’ trope was true (it’s not).

    Last night I was at a pre-launch promo event for a new product in my whisky brand line (release party is Saturday). At events like this I’m surrounded by my ‘pour girls’, all in the HB8-9 range, most between 23 and 26. They’re not allowed to drink, but we all interact with people.

    When I do vodka promos, the scene is much younger, but at whisky promos the demo is more mature and affluent. I have to gauge my natural Game with the girls because there’s a different vibe going on when you’re interacting with mid-age men and you get a lot of social proof from them.

    I’ve been propositioned to ‘come party with’, flirted with, and requested for my number by girls 20 or so years younger than I am (46). While this is a great source of soft dread for my marriage, I again see their attraction as more as a novelty, much in the same way I did when i was banging the older women in my 20’s.

    I may be wrong in that assessment, and perhaps it’s the environment, but I still see it as ‘thrill seeking’ than an, “I wish he wasn’t married so we could settle down and have babies” motivation.

  42. re: open hypergamy, women’s need for dread, the Unreasonable Effectiveness of Disreputability, etc.

    There is a good reason that we used to raise our daughters to be demure when young, and our young sons to compete with each other on the ballfield. Otherwise the young women sexually compete for men who are dominant over women.

  43. Given the nature of the FI, I predict there will be increasingly explicit recognition that encouraging men to dominate women would work far too well. So there will be, within months, a massive re-education campaign dismantling the failed kumbaya of the two most recent generations, designed to re-encourage men to compete with other men, instead. The usual “A True Alpha is a Leader of Men!!” claptrap we’ve been hearing in spurts.

  44. @Rollo – I can tell you from personal experience (based on talks with successful older men and their mistresses) that it starts out as “thrill seeking”, but soon after matures into Hamster on overdrive and divorces-his-wife-and-starts-anew-with-me fantasies.

    In one smaller company I was working at the 3 bosses stopped hiring attractive secretaries, because it cost 2 of them the first marriages. The third one told me stories of his other successful friends – one in which his 20yo Romanian mistress one day could not take it anymore and visited his wife in Germany. He came home to see his mistress having coffee with his wife. He swore that he never promised the girl anything of that sort. The age difference was 25+.

    In another case I met a beautiful 19yo HB9-10. My friend dated her for a while, but she left him soon after because she was pining after a married 43yo wealty & ugly (her words) Alpha, who dumped her 6 months ago. She did not have any daddy issues having a good father at home. Back then we both could not understand what drove her on to still desire a man who never gave her hope and always said that he would never leave his wife.

    I think part of it is the raw attraction of an established Alpha man, but the Beta Bucks aspect comes in strongly too whenever the man has certain wealth & position – then her Hamster goes into overdrive and the Alpha Fucks is combined with the Beta Bucks – and voila she starts dreaming about his divorce, being a second “mom” to his kids and decorating her new house together with the unsuspecting 45yo guy, who still considers this to be a little fling.

  45. And fuck you too zellers ” a short ginger guy with average looks “ indeed. It’s entirely normal where I am, in fact it’s The Law, I’ll have you know!
    And I’m not even short. Damned impudence.

  46. @ Rollo

    I’ve read that article, and I agree with the points in it, but it doesn’t discuss sex as a physiological need. Psychological defense mechanisms are one thing, but sex as an independent variable is another.

    What’s the point of asking this question? To keep people from freaking themselves out by keeping things in perspective. The past is gone. I have gone way more years than most people without having sex — I’m still a virgin. Thinking of sex as a need sets you up for victimizing yourself: feeling like you’ve missed out, like you’re broken or defective, etc.

    You can let that freak you out and push you into a nervous breakdown, or you can just accept it for what it is and keep trying. I’m all for using Game and sexually pursuing women, but the reality is that some people will just have it harder than others. You have to accept the hand life’s dealt you. Thinking of sex as a need can be counterproductive, because it’s a great excuse to feel sorry for yourself and to reinforce the belief that your life will never change.

    I have no social proof because I was an overmedicated, socially isolated and suicidal basket case in high school and didn’t make any friends, dropped out of college after a month after having a nervous breakdown, was institutionalized and when I got out had to go to a rehabilitation center to help get me a job in a warehouse, and I’ve been there ever since.

    More recently I’ve tried setting up dates and have gotten blown off, gotten numbers but no responses to any calls/texts, I am still really struggling with approaching girls, but I’m trying my best now. All I can do is keep trying.

    I managed to hook up with ONE girl, or I almost did — I was so excited, I thought I was going to lose my virginity, I tried my best to make the most of it, but I ended up having a panic attack and I couldn’t get an erection and it turned into an awkward mess, my friend ended up cockblocking me by pounding on the door and yelling, she got up and left and that was the last time I saw her.

    What could I do? I had zero control over my reaction. It just happened. I chalked it up to experience and I just have to try again. I have been finding ways to deal with panic attacks and have been having some success, and hopefully next time around will be better. I also had a talk with that guy and I need to make it clear that if he ever pulls something like that again I’m going to kill him 🙂

    I do occasionally get very angry, but I just channel that into my workouts, and I always feel better after I burn the energy out. I’m slowly learning about wardrobe and hairstyles and have been working diligently on that, not even as much for hoping to attract girls as looking more professional and wanting to get out of my dead-end job and start doing something I’d at least like doing a little bit more.

    I’ve almost committed suicide over my situation on a number of occasions and now my perception has shifted. Sex was not a variable — I’ve been a virgin the whole time. Perception is very important. Also with putting myself out there, I feel better even though I’m not having any success yet.

    The healthiest thing is to acknowledge and respect our desire for sex. But for some of us it is just not as easily in the cards as it is for other people. You can either feel sorry for yourself, which I abandoned, or you can accept your life for what it’s been, address your emotions as they come up, and just keep improving your strategy, and always be willing to learn and experiment and adjust whatever you’re doing as you need to.

    Is sex a physiological need? I don’t know. If you want to have it and you try and fail, your options are keep trying or go apeshit. I’ve done both. Just continuing to try and even continuing to fail, as long as you’re learning, is a lot better than losing your shit. Again…questioning how much of a real need sex is can help center you. I still think perception is more important than sex itself. Unless prostitution is legalized or until you have Game down or are in a relationship or whatever and know what you’re doing, you also can’t satisfy your desire for sex at will. Not like going to the supermarket and buying food when you’re hungry.

    You can either let that drive you up the wall or just accept it for what it is and adjust your actions accordingly.

    “a sadness similar to when you meet someone who’s lost a limb or has had to live with a physical or mental disability.”

    **Aside on circumcision here, which is an important issue I don’t think is being discussed anywhere near enough**

    Men who have been circumcised really have lost a ‘limb’ — they’ve lost the most erogenous tissue in their body, and the lack of a foreskin to cover the glans leads to it keratinizing and desensitizing. I was very tightly circumcised. There’s a foreskin coverage index and also a page on circumcision damage that can help men assess what exactly happened to them in their particular circumcision.

    You would think this would be a more deeply covered issue in the manosphere. How much more blatant does dehumanizing men get than public endorsement of routine infant male genital mutilation? If anything was done to a baby girl people would be up in arms.

    Depending on how tight the circumcision was, and how much was removed, circumcision can severely dull sexual sensations. In my case there is next to no sensations at all, frenulum completely removed, and before I started restoring I had absolutely zero skin mobility when I was erect, and it would actually be very painful to try to masturbate without lubrication. And this has always been true, ever since I first started masturbating — I just didn’t connect the dots until years later. I didn’t even know that I was circumcised or what circumcision was until much later in my life, since no one ever talked about it or told me what it was.

    Affecting or destroying men’s ability to fully enjoy sex before they even have a chance is OK in today’s culture, and I hope this is a trend that stops once people understand it for what it really is — genital mutilation, and the only reason it’s “OK” is because it’s tradition to do it to baby boys. Female genital mutilation is common and accepted in other cultures but we’re repulsed by it. Logic would dictate that unnecessary removal of any organs or organ tissue is unnecessary. There’s a massive potential for harm.


  47. While she is not young, at age 30, everything being normal with her anatomy, she can still have at least three kids with 2-3 years in between each if she starts now or next year. So in that regard she shouldn’t be desperate (and probably isn’t, as her type of women, artsy urban, usually manage to have one baby at best – so basically she has about 12 years left to have one baby which is more than enough).

    Everyone here is obsessing over age, while ignoring the most important factor – the quality of the males she considers. A below 40 dude with his own architect company that is successful in New York – that is very good and even kind of rare (that is, if he’s telling the truth and he has no debt). Add to that that he probably doesn’t look bad. And this particular girl (judging from her tumblr) is artsy, so she is probably only interested in similar types (architects, designers, high end djs, photographers, art studio owners, etc).

    Somehow I don’t see this chick being interested in a regular “mature” dude with a less glamorous job. Being American and skinny, she probably has an over inflated sense of value too and regular dudes that don’t have the looks and success are not even on her radar, no matter what age. She is still only interested in alphas, and noting that it is harder to get them. Or to get them for what she needs right now. She is not interested in “mature” dudes, but only specific, very select mature dudes. Most mature dudes would not reject her, especially those in the mid to late 30s group and up.

    It doesn’t matter how old the man is, what matters is what he represents.

  48. re: “she probably has an over inflated sense of value”

    She probably thinks the caviar store should be moved closer to her apartment.

  49. W/R/T to Guldman, the privacy violation (publishing his fake, taped interview in the context of bragging on his subsequent conquest) is astonishing. I suppose she may not have a father or brothers who will get in the truck from whatever small town she originates from, and shotgun the intrepid swordsman Guldman. But he shouldn’t be surprised if this act doesn’t get him deep into the shit one day. Turnabout would be extremely fair play.

  50. BuenaVista,

    The interview by itself seemed pretty authentic to me. I agree with you on the subsequent violation of privacy. I’m curious what, if any, contact and agreements he had with her post-bang.

  51. re: Goldmund. While I must deplore the overall immorality of it all, I accede to our host’s request.
    1) His approach is sound, but ancient. Seriously,”camera game” and “interview game” is quite tired. Yes, it works, obviously. But it would have been cuter as an 1890s b&w flashbulb thing. “Hold this duckling as if you’re going to kiss it.”
    2) Upscale disreputability is what works on upscale girls. He portrayed himself as a sort of talent scount for a “gentleman’s club”. That’s what hooked her, not his subsequent patter. No, this isn’t a “Game only works on sluts” comment.
    3) You can’t argue with success, but I’m going to anyway. Conspiracy game, aka confidence game, would have been funner and, I think, even easier and quicker. e.g. “My boss would kill me for telling you this, but we can cut him out and make money TODAY on the pictures we’ve already taken! They are that good! Look at your smile, just wow!, right? We’ll just upload a couple, for teasers, to a guy I know … oh man, I’ve never tried this mobile before. The secure upload link is on my computer in my studio. It’s not far. I’ll go take careof business and I can be back here in a couple of hours if he’ll wire me an advance. If you come with me we’ll have to sneak you in because the landlady gets suspicious about me and girls.”

  52. The interview is legit only so far as it’s cool to misrepresent oneself as an objective ‘researcher’ or ‘artist’ (he adopts both poses from time to time, or at the same time) in order to cold-approach women. But in my view that really just indicts him for being a small-time hustler, it doesn’t really hurt anyone else. If a girl wants to be hustled for a phony art project, that’s her business. I don’t care.

    There’s no way she signed a release to be splashed across the internet as a day-game loser archetype. That girl is from some small town, very likely, and that video and its triumphal “and then I schemed her into the sack in 120 minutes!” is probably going to surface in her small town.

    Anyway, I really don’t see what’s so incredible about the pick-up. He talked to a woman who was lonely, then he invited her back to his neighborhood for an adventure. They had an adventure. BFD. There’s nothing new under the sun there, at least from my perspective. I’ve done that dozens of time, to varying degrees, and men have been doing that for centuries.

    If she were my daughter I would fuck him up big-time. Not for the sex, but for the privacy abridgment. This is no different than a woman having sex with a man, and then deciding after the fact to publicly claim the man raped her. We are really, really close to an era in which men are publicly shamed and hounded, if not arrested, because they have sex with a woman and for whatever reason she decides it was a bad idea, or he decides it was a bad idea and dumps her — and she uses the public disclosure of private acts to damage the man’s life. There is that potential here with this girl.

    My comment is somewhat emotional because a) I’ve a daughter who lives in hipster Brooklyn; b) I felt dirty after watching the video, and then seeing her shamed in the comments; c) he didn’t have to publish her face to make his point; d) this shit is being delivered on innocent men (example: the idiot ‘survivor’ up at Columbia, walking around with her mattress as a senior thesis); e) elsewhere on his blog Guldsman publishes pictures of his sterling Game conquests — nude.

    Maybe I just value my own privacy too highly. I do know I don’t want to see pictures of my face or ass on the internet just because some bitch is annoyed I didn’t call her back.

  53. JF12, she is just a relatively lonely, provincial girl whose friends all brag on their occasional hook-ups, and now she wants one too. Whoever was driving into town to meet up with her is hours late, she’s at loose ends, she doesn’t have a lot of friends in the city (otherwise she would have been to Williamsburg or Red Hook or wherever the fuck Guldsman has located his Seduction Spaceship), and the guy made her giggle with his attention and his “I’m am artist-reserarcher” guise.

    I’m sure Guldsman is fairly handsome or she wouldn’t have gone anywhere with him. So we have a handsome guy who is conversational, a girl who hasn’t much to do, and the suggestion of an adventure across the East River. BFD. For this she is outed on the internet? Women can play this game too, and we men don’t appreciate it.

    I hope he’s a tough guy, because eventually, someone is going to shoot his balls off or put one behind an ear.

  54. Just to disabuse you of the “Rich Architect” myth, it is a common apex fallacy, like that of the pay gap myth for wymmynz. The tiniest sliver of Architects are “millionaires” as it is a very tough business with a lot of low end talent dragging down the rates that decent offices can charge. Unless said Architect is a “Starchitect” as we call them (top 0.4% of the field) or they are doing side deals in real estate and acting as a developer, so they see upside to the built out project they are unlikely to be raking in massive dollars.
    I as an Architect, and a half way successful one at that, who is a second generation Architect and been around the business for forty plus years. I had a giggle when I read the “we’re killing it” and then saw people assume that this meant he was “rich”. No, I would suggest that “we’re killing it” more likely translates into truth speak as: “We have won some really cool and artistically fulfilling jobs over the last little while”. “We have won some jobs that will get us lots of positive press and in turn, social validation, in the recent past”. “We have beaten out some other big headed designers for some cool jobs in the recent past.” or, “We achieved something approaching profitability for the first time since the crash of 2009 in the last year and now I can sleep at night and I don’t have to lock my car to the lamp post lest it be repossessed”.

    While Architecture as a profession can come with moderately high social status, it fails to hold the same economic status as that of other “professions” notably doctors and lawyers, jobs that have comparable educational and internship requirements to achieve professional standing. So most Architects salve their lack of economic success with a healthy dose of social status from the title and self validation from actually getting to design an actually cool project once in a while. We get the joys of carrying a lot of our clients risks on our backs without the upside of our clients profits in many cases.

    So yes, the young man may be “killing it” and for that I applaud him in a tough business, but I caution you that it may be more social value he gets from it and personal happiness than straight up dollars.

    Yes, I should have been a developer instead.

  55. @BV re: “This is no different than a woman having sex with a man, and then deciding after the fact to publicly claim the man raped her. We are really, really close to an era in which men are publicly shamed and hounded, if not arrested, because they have sex with a woman and for whatever reason she decides it was a bad idea, or he decides it was a bad idea and dumps her — and she uses the public disclosure of private acts to damage the man’s life.”

    Interesting idea with legs. So, a man’s triumphalist crowing about a pump-and-dump is the symplectic analogue of a woman’s post hoc regret-rape claims.

  56. I don’t know if they are the same thing at all, JF12, but the two ideas converge in the unwarranted, illicit public shaming. And it’s *not* central to his thesis or exposition. This dude just uses her face because he wanted everyone to see that he pulled an attractive girl. Next thing we’ll know he’ll publish the length of his dick, so we can ooh and ah about that.

    Splitting logs today, BV out.

  57. re: “same thing” vs “symplectic”. The whole point of using the word symplectic is to denote that that it is not fully parallel, i.e. twisted, partially antisymmetric.

  58. The reason I repeatedly bring up the symplectification of male-female analogues is that empirically they are always symplectic in one and only one way, instead of the 2^n possible ways. Maybe someone will be interested enough to do the hard part of data cataloguing to see the pattern.

  59. Interesting.

    I posted that link to show an insight to how Game can work. I predicted there’d be guys who’d spin Goldmunds ‘success’ was due to his looks. That was a given, even though we have no pics of him men presume he’s not horrible to look at. He sounds young, perhaps mid-20s, so that’s an advantage.

    The camera is a crutch for sure, but he has other “interviews” with about a dozen other women, the majority of which were enthusiastic in their being on camera and explaining what men needed to do to get them into bed if not just date them.

    Goldmund has good Game in spite of the camera. He’s got a theme or script of course, but he improvises it well and he knows how to get a girl to talk about themselves (something women always love).

    I find it interesting how guys want to kick his ass for this pickup. It’s almost like a mate guarding / protectionism response; remember this girl is playing an active part in her own seduction. He feeds her just enough plausible deniability with his ‘story’ to make it seem like an innocuous encounter, but you’re mistaken if you think she isn’t recognizing his subcommunications.

    The next doubt is that he’s just making up what happened after this video was shot. For all we know he went home and beat off – but isn’t it interesting how we want to believe he did what he says happened afterward?

    She’s a cute girl, maybe even the ‘type’ you’d want to get into an LTR with at first meeting (provided you were ignorant of what she’s capable of). I don’t think it’s jealousy that makes guys want to kill Goldmund – it’s a want to protect “that kind of girl”, the jewel in the rough, from the predations of a guy like Goldmund.

  60. re: the “girl is playing an active part in her own seduction”. Yes, which is exploited more directly in Conspiracy game.

    I’m lightly thinking about upscale disreputability as a form of peacocking, handicapping because of the need to carry the burden of disreputability without being arrested or beaten up too much.

  61. I moved to NYC 3 years ago- even without game, you have to be one hell of a train wreck not to get laid here on the regular.
    the posting of her face is something I hadn’t thought about until the comment upstream, and now that I think about it, it is kind of disturbing. Not sure what I think about that.
    But I do know that things like that can mess things up for other men. Women, I’ve found, are much less likely to send nude selfies now that so much attention has been shown on guys sharing them and uploading them.
    sometimes I think in cases like this its not mate guarding, but “access guarding”. When other men do stupid shit that makes life harder for other men, those men get pissed. Next time your out and about and get ressistance because of something other idiots did, you’ll get pissed.
    But who knows, he may well have asked her if it was ok to write about it and post her pic. Women are amazing whores for fame, even negative attention is still attention. I think he would have written about it if he had asked though.

  62. @ Hobbes

    Is that true? I live within 3-4 hours of NYC but have never been there. The town I live in is in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. I don’t have the money to live out there but it would be interesting to see if visiting there could change anything. I’m about ready to put a bullet through my head over here.

  63. It is. You actually don’t need “typical” game here. Back in Miami I would get about 3-4 lays a year if I was single and many of them where with friends of friends etc and because I was playing music alot which leads to meeting lots of women. Here I am pulling about 10 a yr, at least (already have 13 under my belt for this year) and I am working and going to school full time. I also don’t have many friends.. so its all low effort online stuff -3 out of 5 online dates turn into sex- and some cold approaching.
    Now, I am sure my internalizing of Game has helped on a subconcious level, but it’s not like I’m “sarging” etc.. Just whatever inner game that has come from accepting RP.
    Just don’t try to get a relationship here. It’s a disaster, and the women in this city are all damaged in some way or another when it comes to relationships. Oddly though.. as a guy who has always preferred relationships, it helps my game. They see me as cool, down to earth and genuine and not a game player. Probably because they all think they want a relationship, they just haven’t figured out that the are just not acting in a way that makes them capable of one.
    Anyway, it is extremely easy here.
    I’ve read some of your posts before and know what you’ve been going through.. I can’t say I’d be much good at getting you laid, but I’d be willing to hang and show you around. At the least you’d have a couch for a day or two to give it a shot. I dislike alot about this city, I met much more qualty women and friends in Miami, but this is a great city to challenge yourself and grow- just maybe not growing in exactly the way you intended sometimes.

  64. Rollo,

    My kneejerk reaction is that he is unnecessarily shaming her on the the internet, and that’s extremely uncool. You’re making me question my motivations though.

  65. An outstanding piece once again Rollo.

    For too long men have been denied these teachings. Thank God we have the internet and and benevolent people such as yourself.

    My eternal gratitude.

  66. Found this gem from 2011 by typing Rollo Tomassi and a woman’s all caps question into google.

    The Gem: “

    Her Question (on FB):

    “Is it wrong for a married man or woman to go see a friend of the opposite sex… Especially if this person is their ex-fiancé?”

    Which posts on RM answer this question?

    Jenny Bahn isn’t thinking about any ex. She’s trying to attract “Alex”

  67. re: Gone Girl-hood.

    One of the things that kept Jenny on Alex’s hook is that he was giving her signs of sleeping with a 23 yr old “who he is dating precisely because she’s not looking for anything at all.” The quintessential bad-boy maneuver, that keeps all the other plates spinning, is to have a younger and sluttier girlfriend. It is important, as Jenny emphasizes repeatedly, that the younger girl be “lesser”.

  68. OK, I’ll cop to the experiment now.

    The Goldmund pick up video is a perfect example of what I’m illustrating in this post. The “where are the numbers/science/proof” guys will always find some reason why it’s not legit. And even Game adherents want to kill the guy for overstepping common decency for actually posting his successful pull video.

    This is exactly the ethical dilemma I’m describing in here:

    Even some well meaning red pill Men may want to self-affirmingly ridicule the PUAs of the past and present, but if you have embraced a red pill awareness today, at least partially, you have these Men to thank for risking rejection and practicing techniques that laid a foundation for contemporary red pill awareness.

    Now, imagine for a moment that, today, all men had to build on was the antiseptic studies and controlled experiments of a social science academia firmly steeped in a feminine-primary, feminine-correct social context. Imagine what red pill awareness would be if not for the guys in the field doing ‘experiments’. Imagine what marriage counselors and ‘relationship experts’ would (and honestly, still) advise men to do in order to change their lives with an understanding based solely on what a feminine- primary, controlled social science approved of.

    Only the PUAs of then and now have had the unfettered freedom to perform in-field social experiments, and relate their collected evidence and observations with other men; the types of which social science has been forbidden from due either to ethical considerations or by feminine-primary social conventions.

  69. re: Architect – it is true that they live off of contracts and most of them are not big shots (as in most professions), however, the original attraction of an architect is not about money – it is one of those professions that artsy girls like. It is not only respectable, but creative! He is designing his own cool stuff, it is beautiful and people want it. This girl could go after investment bankers like other NYC models if she wanted to, but that’s not her type – unless, they have a creative personality too, they are not interesting to her. She’s a writer. I guessed right that she was into photographers too, because in one of her articles she mentions a fling / relationship with her photographer. Artists and musicians also fall into this category – very attractive, but not as serious as architects and such. The issue though is that it’s really easy dating these creative types in your 20s when there is no sense of urgency of anything. As a 30 year old, she wants not only the creativity, but the stability too. And very few of those types “make it”, as mentioned above. Plus, she probably has all the other expectations – decent looks, no previous marriage / kids, no substance abuse, etc., willingness to start a family. Put it all together and that’s a lot of requirements. She is not stunningly beautiful, but she is quite good looking for American standards, even for NYC, so she should have a lot of choice still. Unless she thinks she can have the same calibre of men that would be dating Victoria Secret types.

  70. Why do you guys assume that she has a crush on Alex? She definitely likes him, but how do you know that next month she won’t be talking on the phone at night with another dude? And, btw, real love doesn’t happen like that, you can’t just select a guy as if from a catalogue, it just happens at some point in your life.

  71. Marketable idea (I brim with them): (mercifully short) POV PUA videos, in which the male viewer can pretend he is the guy doing the picking up. After the commercial success of the first half-dozen of these shorts, grab some millions from the financiers throwing money your way, and produce a new kind of 21st century feature: an interactive movie, sort of a photorealistic choose-your-adventure. Like if Leisure Suit Larry was produced by Bill Gates using a Cray.

  72. @Rollo:

    I think what you don’t understand and what the looks crowd is trying to get across is that since PUAs have tested game (they probably won’t admit this part), we can actually see that looks matter a whole lot than most PUAs would care to admit. Even successful application of game will cap at some point and this “capping” isn’t too significant either.

    The more I read about the arguments that “looks matter”, the more I’m realizing that this is true. For young women it does matter more than game. Mind you, I’ve been gaming for over 10 years, ever since I started high school (when I first read the MM method), and women do first and foremost take a guy’s looks into consideration before anything. I’ve seen it, experienced it, and witnessed it far too often to simply just sweep this realization under the rug and pretend it doesn’t exist. I can understand why some men want to see what Goldmund looks like. Chances are, he has some physical appeal which warrants women to sleep with him Alpha Fucks style. Certain physical pre-requisites must be met for a woman to sleep with a man, especially after an hour.

    Now aside from facial aesthetics, I still think height is the most important factor in a woman’s receptivity towards your game. It is something that game cannot override. It is something so primal in a woman to want a taller man, that simple social dominance cannot provide. I’m all up for game but let’s be honest here for a moment. I’ve met girls in person, on Tinder, and they’re preferences are always the same. I remember going out with a friend of mines years ago and he would always have trouble with women (he was 5’4) and I tried to drill game on him but eventually he must have gotten frustrated because he never wanted to go out again. I have yet to hear anything from him.

    To further drive my point home, just look at this video of two PUAs gaming women:

    I would say that the taller man runs “cool,calm, collected” game and the short man runs more of a “playful vibe” game. The shorter guy has much better body language but most of the women in the video are receptive to the taller man. If this video doesn’t convince you, just go watch their individual channels on picking up women. The tall man’s channel is: Honest Signalz and the short man’s channel is: Cupid Shmupid.

    Obviously some people will say, “well, of course he’s going to do better if he’s taller!” But what these people fail to realize is that the community drives the point, almost religiously, that “game is the great equalizer.” When in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

    I believe game can improve your lot to some degree (as it did for me) but most of the women you’ll attract will be women who would have been already attracted to you had you simply opened your mouth and said something. Sometimes being too technical and meticulous in your approach goes wrong because when a woman likes you, she will make it known and no amount of routines or strategies can make her viscerally feel otherwise.

    After all, you said it best, “you cannot negotiate genuine desire.”

  73. re: Atticus. If Finch had become the victim of a rumor that he had to get treated for syphilis that he contracted from a (white) prostitute he defended “pro bono”, he would have had a lot (white) women after him a lot more frantically.

  74. re: “in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.” + “I believe game can improve your lot to some degree”

    Infact, nothing could be could be more self-contradictory and appallingly ignorant of both logic and science.

  75. PUAs shed a valuable light on reality…..however, posting a video of the girl is just disgusting. She went with him to enjoy the moment and the guy then humiliates her in public for no reason. For all of the talk about female duplicity, this is the male equivalent.

  76. It’s only women that have a vested interest in discouraging “dishonestsignalz” guys from trying. Only women. Any males who do so are so blue they’re green (anti-red) pillers wholly subservient to the FI.

  77. @jf12:

    Did you even read my post or are you pretending to be dense?

    Seems to me like you nit picked pieces of my comments to fulfill a narrative of yours.

    I said, “in fact, nothing could be further from the truth” after I stated that the community upholds the idea that game is the great equalizer. It isn’t. I then said, “game can improve your lot to some degree” as a general statement.

    Most women who do sleep with men already have it in their heads that they will sleep with the guy, granted he doesn’t fuck up a lot. You can’t say that game creates attraction, it simply lets you maneuver your way through multiple women until you finally bang one. Roosh himself admitted this via twitter by saying something along the lines of, “I’m becoming more convince that all Game does is simply put me in a better position to bang girls already attracted to me.”

    Game cannot create attraction. I don’t understand why this is so hard for you to get.

    It seems to me like you’re the one living in your little blue pill bubble.

  78. This —

    “If a girl wants to be hustled for a phony art project, that’s her business. I don’t care. … For this she is outed on the internet? Women can play this game too, and we men don’t appreciate it.”

    — is not mate-guarding, white-knighting, or hand-wringing. Perhaps the suggestion was directed elsewhere, rather than being the product of internet mind-reading of BV, in which case, disregard my subsequent notes.

    The blow-back from this idiot’s self-aggrandizing ‘I am such a playa, watcha me score’ outing of this girl could be severe. If others emulate him it *will* be severe. (Set aside her deer-hunter brother just shooting him, which I’m cool with.) For example, the best defense against the new California affirmative consent law is simply to tape all sexual encounters. Guldsman-like antics could easily next cause such recording to be a felony. (Unilateral recording is already against the law in many jurisdictions, but I can’t wait for the new laws that make recording of women playing cowboy a class D felony, or some shit.)

    Even if there were some pedagogical value to the episode, which I believe RT believes there is, *nothing* is added, and much is reduced, by his publishing the woman’s identity.

    I moved to Manhattan from a very, very rural state when I was 17 and had all of $200. In NYC there were more people within a two-mile radius than in my entire home state. My community there, male and female, was always other provincials looking for something only available in New York. We met, we talked, we partied, and we connected. I returned after college; same deal. I entered the theatre and publishing worlds; same deal. We did not post pictures of our lovers in permanent media, as though that made us cooler than cool. And as, essentially, ex-pats in the city-state of NYC, we did not need nor wonder about the mysteries of Game.

    As a blue pill middle-aged man, fucked-up by divorce, I returned again to NYC and shortly took the wife of a monstrous Hollywood dude; shall I publish her name, publish her nudes? Pat myself on the back by publishing what she knows about an ex-President? Quote her erotic emails? Reveal her ex-‘s secrets? Would that make me a stud? Would other men ‘owe’ me something?

    As Hobbes notes, a straight male with or without Game, who cannot get laid in NYC, probably is missing a few limbs, his cerebral cortex, and half of his teeth. Guldsman isn’t teaching anyone anything about interacting with women, he just found one who laughed at his glib posturing with his toy camera. A single woman sitting alone in Washington Square Park (hard by NYU), unless she is staring at her shoes and crying, or reading a book, might as well have a sign on her tit saying, “Hi, My Name is XX. Talk me up.” I don’t see him as some transgressive, intrepid student of intersexual mysteries; I see him as a talkative and indiscreet guy who’s doing what people have always done in NYC: meet women and live a little outside the rules of bourgeois or feminist convention.

    The brilliance of The Rational Male (blog and book) is that it unlocks female behaviors and imperatives. These behaviors and imperatives are generally hinted at, or partially expressed, in drive-by pick-up. They are fully expressed over longer time horizons. I’m struggling to annotate my ‘debt’ to such a guy as Guldsman; I think Guldsman is carrying the liability here, both to all the women he outs capriciously, as well as to men who’d rather not be paying down his debts for him — owing to his self-serving, self-praising, self-publicizing boorishness.

    The first rule of Fight Club is that you never discuss Fight Club. We inhabit a secret society that deserves more respect than is offered here. The attention whore is not the woman in this episode. The attention whore is just some guy who confuses affectation with talent, appearance with value, wetting his dick with masculinity. The streets of Brooklyn are teeming with these phonies, trim hotshots from Plainfield or Darien or Garden City, dressed as though they just jetted in from their ranch in the Absarokas, claiming artistic license because they read some minor Kerouac and have heard of Hemingway. Give me a fucking break. Ask one of these badasses to clear a 1911, or sharpen his own knife, or discuss Franzen v. Pynchon. He’ll piss himself.

  79. Agent P, at 10:32 a.m., discusses the illusory economic value of being an architect, and why it’s ironic (to anyone in the know) that Jenny ascribes socio-sexual prestige to him.

    I think his comment (entirely true) reveals much about Jenny’s quandary, how she got there, and where (absent change) she’ll wind up.

    Basically, these girls are still in college, where someone else pays the bills, looks carry the day, and tomorrow never comes. So sure, the cute guy with the atelier is high status to her, because he just looks like a guy who would be photographed well at an opening, who would draw envious remarks from her girlfriends, his masters might be from Princeton, and he might know the difference between La Perla and Victoria’s Secret. (Which a discerning gal like Jenny will require.) *He’s just so evolved.*

    I know a lot of women who married on this basis. They’re not too happy with things about the third year of living on a budget — a budget that doesn’t admit La Perla any longer, which makes the Princeton Club too expensive, and scoffs at the likelihood of Brick Church nursery school ($35K), much less Dalton for 13 years ($50K * 13) (that’s per child).

    It may well be that another reason Alex is single and prefers to date the young girls is that he knows he can’t afford Jenny’s expected life of leisure.

  80. So was posting highly intimate details online a part of this “art project”? Did he ever tell her that that’s what he was gonna do? Frankly, she should sue him (it is scandalous that thing isn’t removed yet, does she even know?). In ancient times, family men lynched those types of guys.

    This woman is easy to impress, but first and foremost she is a human being. How would you like to see your female relative’s picture with words like “she sucked my dick while I licked her ass” right next to her face? It can happen to your daughter too.
    Well, don’t be surprised that women start hating men after this kind of stuff and that most of them end up overly “pumped and dumped” and there are no “pure” girls left. The guys themselves soil the waters for other guys.

  81. re: life of leisure. My (first) wife’s stated reason for majoring in English was so “I’ll get paid for reading good books! Bwa-ha-ha!”

    One of my good (male) buddies is a professsor of leisure studies and avid outdoorsman. He literally publishes research articles on what the fish were bitin’ last week.

  82. It’s literally impossible to protect women’s “right” to choose to sex up triumphant jerks and to prevent said triumphants jerks from being jerks and being triumphant.

  83. ” . . . the best defense against the new California affirmative consent law is simply to tape all sexual encounters . . .”

    The law makes every encounter a he said/she said affair (as it were), with primacy given to what she said.

    Therefore, taping all sexual encounters is simply the first and most obvious defense. The next step is to be able to show where you were when, so you may have a defense against any woman making any specific claim against you. You’ll need a 24/7 GPS log for this. Back it up twenty ways from Sunday at multiple sites, so when the jackboots strip you of all your physical media you can still access it.

    If you can show that you probably weren’t anywhere near where she says you were, it will tend to cast serious doubt upon her claim.

    The best defense would be to video log your whole fucking, and nonfucking, life; if you have the stomach for that sort of thing.

  84. Jenny’s post is highly enlightening. I mean, look at her. She’s 30 and a former high profile model.

    At that age she is capable of attracting plenty of high value men, but despite that, she is whining because she now lacks the ability to select only the best of the best, the top 1%.

    Her life from 17 to 27 must have been so easy…

  85. “Girls who, in my experience, are less impressive, less striving, less volatile, less successful, less intimidating, less questioning, less pressing, less complex, less damaged, less opinionated, less powerful, less womanly. They are less, and, to a guy not ready for anything—like most of the guys I have dated in New York—less is more.”

    At 40 most guys in my line of work are billing 400 – 700 grand per year. Every 15 minute conversation that I have where I am subjected to “intimidating, questioning, pressing, opinionated,” costs me $70 to $100 Bucks…. I simply cannot and will not stand for it…

    I also see this in the 40 something wife of one of my business partners…. ” striving, volatile, pressing, damaged, opinionated” and her rude behaviour costs him business deals all the time……

    Busy people need to be able to trust one another….need to be both pulling in the same direction…. otherwise the relationship becomes far too high maintenance and costs you money.

  86. Alex validating himself with a hot 23 year old

    Ah… And here I thought I was just f**king them, instead I was being “validated”… That’s a woman’s logic for you – she can’t face the fact that men have sex with young women because we WANT to have sex with ATTRACTIVE, YOUNG women… And 30 year olds are on the downward slide…

  87. Cornelius, from my experience, you have it about right. I was a stammering introverted dude in my teens and early twenties (to much dope smoking if you must know), unless I was drunk. Still was able to get my notch count close to 30 before getting hitched. Turns out the girls thought I was real cute. Out of that bunch, I think I opened/approached about 10 of them, the rest just used me for my looks.

    Funny how when looking back on it, I was into mostly pump and dump. Just wanted to get laid, and smoke some more grass. Had at least 6 of those female PUA’s fall hard and try to lock me into a relationship. Just wouldn’t do it, after being used like that!

  88. BV – the fight club rule is for a different culture, that us older chaps grew up in. Now a days, just look at Face Book, it is all about putting out there how special we are, male or female. Sickening really.

  89. @ Hobbes

    Send me a message at if you want.

    Which made me think that while it’s cool that men can talk about this stuff because of the Internet, it would be ideal to get to know people in person who’re on the same page. The personal disconnect of the Internet is kind of disorienting to say the least. Although that’s a topic for another day.

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