I’m going to apologize in advance to commenter Softek (hopefully you’re cool with my posting this), but his comment from The Real Nice was exactly what I was digging into this morning:
I’ll tell you where the friendzone is: it’s in your head. You want to believe that something is going to happen with a girl and that you’ve got your foot in the door because you’ve always been there for her for so long, and you always have “so much fun” when you hang out, they like you, they tell you they enjoy spending time with you.
Yeah…no.
Rollo’s said if a woman’s interested in you, she won’t confuse you.
A girl that I was not interested in was interested in me. That girl let me know she was interested in me because while we were hanging out she initiated physical contact herself, I just went along with it, and next thing I know I’m on my back and she’s pulling my boxers down and sucking my dick.
After she swallowed I figured out, “Oh. She must be interested in me. Okay.” For real. That oblivious.
And that was the second day we were hanging out. I’d never met her or hung out with her before. We’re talking 0 to 60, although in her mind when we started hanging out I guess she was already going 60. She did not tell me she liked me or cared about me or wanted to be with me. What she “said” was ask if I wanted her to go down on me, and then she did.
Night and day. I’ve known other girls for years and years and spent so much time with them and never saw one iota of pussy, and only on a couple of occasions got a hug. Nothing was ever going to happen. And I was in the friendzone in my mind. I’d spend all my time there wishing and hoping and never realized how short I was selling myself and how by being the pursuer, I’d already lost.
If you’re waiting for something to develop, you’re already fucked. I learned that one after reflecting on that experience with that other girl. That was the first time in my life any girl showed sexual interest in me — and it was very, very clear. She was the one throwing herself at me. And when she did and I just soaked it all up she was very happy about that and it was just this torrential downpour of praise and compliments and how great I was and everything inbetween.
I haven’t had a lot of experience, but the little I have had has shown me the difference between pursuing a girl who may or may not be interested in you eventually, and one who absolutely, unequivocally is. It is night and day. There’s no mistaking it.
We’re not being nice to ourselves and loving ourselves when we willingly stay in the friendzone in our minds — wishing and hoping and fantasizing. A girl who’s interested will give you so much more, and she’ll give it at the drop of a hat.
I’ve done posts in the past about the utility LJBF rejections mean to women, men’s Beta Game tactics of Playing Friends in the hopes of qualifying for a woman’s intimacy at a later date, and how men and women differ in their approaches to friendship based on their same-sex friendships. In all of these I brush a bit into the concept of the “friend zone” and how it’s really men who put themselves (usually willingly) in this state:
Men get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the “friends first” mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection (Buffer) is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.
[…] Get it out of your head now that you’re even in a so called “friend zone” with any woman. There is no friend zone – there is only the limbo between you being fooled that a girl is actually a friend on an equitable level to your same sex friends, and you understanding that as soon as she becomes intimate with another guy your attentions will become a liability to any relationship she might want to have with the new sexual interest and she puts you off, or you do the same when you become so involved with another girl.
I probably could have mentioned this in The Real Nice post, but I’m noticing a social trend from overly ’empowered’ women in not simply rejecting the concept of the ‘friend zone’, but outright hostility towards the men who insist they’re forced into it. Women are angry about men complaining about the friend zone.
Neo-feminism HATES the idea of the friend zone for the same reasons it hates Faux-Nice Guys; there’s an implied state of exchange. They hate the reciprocal part of the Savior Schema because it’s considered one degree away from rape.
Nothing upsets the feminine-primary balance of sexual selectivity and betrays the secret mechanics of women’s need to optimize hypergamy than having a man overtly expose the transactional side of women’s sexual strategy. The side that puts him into a friend zone purgatory for being a ‘tryer’ when it comes to sex, but her need for his trying hasn’t reached a critical point.
This is what the friend zone does; it makes a man simultaneously responsible for, and accountable to, his want for sex by attempting to qualify for it with a woman. The friend zone is a Beta man’s punishment for expecting to be entitled to the rewards reserved for an Alpha. The Alpha doesn’t qualify himself for a woman’s intimacy, she qualifies for his sexual approval. And the longer you stay rapt by her in the friend zone the readier you’ll be when she needs your dutiful, sex-lured, providership.
If you want an example of the feminine imperative’s fluidly reinventing social conventions for itself look no further than how the concept of the ‘friend zone’ has evolved since the mid 90’s. In 1994 it was cute in an “Aww, hang in there fella, she’ll come around to loving you for who you are eventually (once she’s “grown” from the experiences of banging bad boys). In 2014 it’s “Any guy who thinks he’s in the so called friend zone is just a potential rapist because he thinks he’s owed sex for his friendship.”
A Way Out of Hell
One of the most common questions you’ll read from desperate blue pill men, not just in the manosphere, but on damn near every dating forum, to Dear Abby, to AskMen is “How do I get out of the friendzone?” Type that question into a Google query and look at the number of returns you get. The question of course is usually followed by some plea for advice or a script to follow in order to finally get with the Girl of his Dreams®, and rationally and reasonably make her aware of how he measures up to everything on her ‘boyfriend list’.
If you want some actionable Game advice about the ‘friend zone’ here it is – leave it yourself!
Even if you think you have the best and noblest of intentions in your White Knight ‘friend zone’ status, the fact remains that women in general, and the woman you have set your noble intent upon, will consider your ‘friend zoning’ a prison of your own making – not theirs.
Even the most complicit or implicit woman in a guy’s ‘friend zoning’ will never accept the liability for placing him into that state, and even the most culpable woman in this will still resent him; not just for pointing out her own participation in it, but because it irrecoverably confirms him as being a Beta chump who would allow himself to participate in his own ‘friend zoning’.
If you believe you’re in some friend zone with a woman, never overtly admit to or complain about it with anyone, man or woman – you will only reaffirm your perception of being a necessitous Beta. Men will judge, women will talk, and your self-perception gets caught in a negative feedback loop.
Next, remember Iron Rule of Tomassi #7:
Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.
Your “friend zoning” is a failed relationship. Approach new women, develop new prospects. A Woman doesn’t want the ‘liability’ of implied sexual exchange (actual or imagined) for your friendship? Don’t give it her.
May 23rd, 2014 at 1:21 pm
@Tilikum
“as someone here recently said, a woman is a hollow shell, a vessel waiting to be filled with your accomplishments. any reflections of a soul you receive are just that, reflections of emotions you have placed there.”
Sad as it is true.
I know some very accomplished women; though they will not be rewarded in the same way as men of equal stature, largely because they are delegitimised by other women of lesser stature, for example, for ‘not wanting a family': the cycle of legitimising-delegitimising that Rollo described. In essence, they simply can’t win with each other.
Credit where credit’s due in my view.
Weird how this scene made me thing of this exact point when I was watching ‘The Next Three Days’ last eve. You have to see the whole scene to appreciate that femme competition is far and away more fierce:
May 23rd, 2014 at 2:50 pm
@Rollo
“”On a subconscious level a bullpen of male orbiters represent the future insurance of a provisioning surplus”
Epic post. I now see it. There is never any need to feel jealous or bad that a beta orbiter receives attention.
I can now hone my confidence and alpha confidence without fear of shame. The dichotomy between “friends” and the “guys she bangs” is now crystal clear.
May 23rd, 2014 at 8:26 pm
@TheMonkeyKing: “How on Earth did they get themselves in this mess?” I don’t know, but the best recourse is to avoid as much contact with them as possible.
Women actually like to have beta orbiters to protect them…from other women.
May 24th, 2014 at 8:55 am
Similar to how 90% of all physical ailments are caused by the conventional approach to diet, 90% of mental issues are rooted in a conventional approach to male-femaile relationships.
May 24th, 2014 at 10:06 am
**off-topic**
Incel dude went on a shooting rampage.
http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/26d5zx/elliot_rodgers_manifesto_before_he_killed/
May 24th, 2014 at 10:16 am
@Gurney
Oh man, here is the shooter’s “farewell” video … Christ, that was painful to watch …
May 24th, 2014 at 10:59 am
All this intra-female viciousness makes sense in light of how women’s preferred realm of communication is covert. So, all these mendacious thoughts, feelings, and schema are bubbling under the surface – growing, growing, angrier, angrier….
What I don’t know is whether that intra-female viciousness writ-large has gotten worse recently (as illustrated by clips like the one TheMonkeyKing posted) or whether there’s just more mass-media exposing of the almost Newtonian scientific law that eventually, too much covert erupts in overt.
Maybe the problem *has* gotten worse in that we see more of the overt, or maybe we’re just less disciplined in society generally, or maybe I just didn’t see it before…
May 24th, 2014 at 12:17 pm
It’s really sad to me to read the comments on that video. The comments are a lot more painful for me to read than watching the video.
I don’t listen to this song anymore because it puts me in a horrible mood, but it says it all.
The loneliness and sexual frustration, as shown in the YouTube comments on that video, is made fun of. It adds insult to injury, and I think this can have a lot to do with what pushes these guys over the edge. It isn’t just rejection and having to cope with the agonizing pain of a completely sexless existence — the agonizing pain that I’m all too familiar with —
— it’s feeling that pain and then *on top of it* having the whole world around you either:
1) ignore you
2) make fun of you
3) minimize your suffering and invalidate it
Feminism is about dragging men down and berating them, making them feel shame and guilt about their natural biological drives and condemning them for simply feeling the way they do, because it portrays the male sex drive itself as an inherent, intrinsic assault on women.
From my experience, even if you’re not having sex and are still frustrated as hell with that, having your scenario explained to you and rationalized is a tremendous help. Simply getting a clue about what’s really going on with women and why you’re not getting laid is a lifesaver, even if you still aren’t getting laid.
I’m still a virgin, I’m older than the guy in that video, and I’ll say this much: feminism/women completely writing off the suffering of men who aren’t getting any sex pisses me off more than not having sex.
The humiliation and insults and slander that goes along with rejection is the worst part. “No” does not just mean “no” anymore — it means that you’re the Antichrist for even asking.
Women complain about not wanting to have sex (i.e. not wanting to have sex with lower SMV men that want to have sex with them). But on top of that, they pick the poor suffering bastards apart.
So not having sex with them is not enough — they have to CONDEMN them for feeling bad that they have no sex lives.
This is why all men need to learn Game, get a cursory understanding of female psychology, and start fighting back. The starting point is freeing yourself from all the guilt and shame that Feminism has pounded into you since day one.
May 24th, 2014 at 1:23 pm
Youtube has pulled the video … anyway, I noted that the kid is not at all bad looking and was apparently well-off as he was driving a BMW at age 22 (presumably paid for by his parents) … interestingly, I think someone in the Reddit thread mentioned that the guy was a puahate forum member and in the video itself he mentions how much he hates “alpha males” for getting all the girls so it sounds like he was acquainted with “game” (or at least the associated terminology) …
May 24th, 2014 at 1:37 pm
FRIEND-ZONED Males Back EMBRACE Body campaign on Kickstarter. http://wp.me/P3P5mL-s1
From @Rollo’s http://therationalmale.com/2013/01/24/the-new-thin/
“I should also point out that it’s a uniquely White Knight habit to publicly defend a woman’s body image insecurities in order to get the identification / affirmation strokes they believe endears them to women. I hear these guys parrot back the same lines women self-affirm when talking about their body shape or trying to disqualify a sexual competitor, in an effort to be more ‘like’ the women they hope to get with. The idea is that they believe they’ll be rewarded for taking the “fat acceptance, love-who-you-are” tact and be perceived as more modern or up with the right conventions, and that guy’s who actually have the temerity to say they prefer a tight body are the neanderthals – again, to disqualify their own sexual competitors.”~Rollo Tomassi
May 24th, 2014 at 1:52 pm
A little off-topic here and perhaps too early to write this, but the shooter in the Santa Barbara, California, massacre had a video saying “women give their love and sex to other men and not to me” before he went on his shooting.
Tragic, and I would say if AFCism isn’t a mental disorder, it’s darn close. (Obviously he had other mental problems, too, but saying his AFCness was one major problem.)
May 24th, 2014 at 1:53 pm
Whoops, I see someone already has commented on the California shooter.
May 24th, 2014 at 2:25 pm
@MonkeyKing
“This might explain a woman’s natural propensity to gossip. When a woman attacks the respectability and character of another (“she’s such a slut”), in essence, she is assualting the woman’s agency for garnering attention by delegitimizing it”
I agree
“Quite. Just a vicious cycle of legitimising-delegitimising. She can’t be a sl*t and she can’t be a frigid bag-lady, she must remain somewhere in between. How on Earth did they get themselves in this mess?”
I disagree… It’s not a vicious cycle and the dear ladies should not be sympathized with for playing it. They are all playing the greatest game of all and the reward is for your genetics to be immortal. THERE IS NO GREATER STAKES.
May 24th, 2014 at 2:25 pm
ARE NO* :)
May 24th, 2014 at 5:46 pm
As an experienced traveller in the Friend Zone when I was young, I can see where it isn’t going to ever disappear, no matter what the feminista want. It is a great way to condition less-than-desirable males into unquestioningly accepting the first woman willing to settle for him.
But unlike my generation, younger men today aren’t all that blind to the tricks of women. They watched while we tried to play the game as we were told it had to be, only to fail miserably and painfully. They are thus not in a hurry to walk into the buzzsaw of modern relationships without keeping an escape route readily available, for which I deem the pain my generation suffered to have been worth it to end traditional and socially-pressured marriages. There is another way, and young men know it.
Sic semper tyrannis.
May 24th, 2014 at 7:51 pm
Wow! the more I read the more I realize just how old I am and unaware I must have been as a young man. Most of the experiences related here are so not in my realm that I have problems accepting them.
I was not great with women, but did accomplish over 25 lays before getting married. May have been that I was in the second phase (Disco) of the sexual revolution.
But if the reports here are even remotely true, guys, I really feel for you. If the woman in your age group are this slutty, yet stuck up, FUCK, life must be a bitch!
I realize that I really have no advice for you, nada. Don’t know if game is credible or not.
Shit man…..
May 24th, 2014 at 10:38 pm
“On a subconscious level a bullpen of male orbiters represent the future insurance of a provisioning surplus. The more Beta orbiters she hold rapt the better her potential reserve for long term security will be when needed. Thus, the more non-sexual orbiters she has the freer she feels to capitalize on the Alpha Fucks aspect of her hypergamy.
If she knows that there are multiple Beta men patiently waiting her out and ready to meet her emotional, familial and financial security needs in the future (The Epiphany Phase) the more secure she’ll feel in pursuing (and fucking) the Alpha men she hopes will eventually fill that security role (or be ‘fixed’ into doing so).
With her future provisioning presumedly secured by doting orbiters, she becomes comfortable with the risk-to-reward possibilities associated with Alpha Fucks.
So conversely, the attentions of orbiting provider males essentially prompt a woman to capitalizing on her SMV with the Alpha assholes they complain of and compete for sex with.”
that should mean that if you go out to a club and see a really hot woman surrounded by her male orbiters…the more orbiters = the easier she should be to get into bed, provided you can swing the alpha cues she needs to be attracted…it’s not a bug, it’s a feature…lol…
May 24th, 2014 at 10:44 pm
just to follow up on the beta orbiter idea…there should be some factor regarding the intensity of the beta orbiters v. the sheer number of them. in other words, if a woman has one or two orbiters that she KNOWS will never ‘leave’ that might allow her more latitude in chasing alphas than a woman who has 5 or 6 orbiters that are only sort of committed to her (and might search elsewhere if she gets too slutty)…
May 25th, 2014 at 11:12 am
This quote has been probably been mentioned before, but every time I read a discussion about the “Friend Zone,” this is what comes to my mind:
“Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.”
-Oscar Wilde
Good words to live by. My opinion is that if you are friends with a girl, who is not married to or dating one of your guy friends, you are not putting the right type of energy out there. They should love you or hate you, but no girl should ever want to be your friend.
May 25th, 2014 at 11:16 am
Wanderer, remember ole Oscar was a satirist, so this statement must be read with that in mind. And if I interpret Rollo’s continuing message here, this aint your grandfathers era. Things have changed, women are now “free”. Either accept this and learn to live in the new paradigm, or just waste away.
May 25th, 2014 at 12:03 pm
… I agree completely. But I think the post-feminist world will at least resemble to some degree the pre-feminist world. I can’t imagine my grandfather spending time with girls pretending to be their friends when he really wanted them sexually. I think the quote from Wilde (and granted, I’m no expert on his work or the context) is illuminating because I believe he was writing this at the time that feminism was just starting to take root. It hails as a warning.
May 25th, 2014 at 2:20 pm
Yeah, was “discussing” this with the wife yesterday (if you can hold a woman’s attention for more then a couple of minutes when talking about deep subjects, HA!)
Her quick replies included what is bantered about here quite often, women now are able to financially take care of themselves, so why would they marry young?
I feel that women have the feeling that they were under the yoke, and now that the tether has snapped are penduluming to what they consider “equality” but have actually passed that station by. They will return a bit over time, but will never be the doe eyed wives of our ancestors. So you young guys will have to account for this and find what works in this new paradigm. Either pump and dump, or some kind of masculinity to keep the wife from straying, or what I think most likely, more and more open marriages. Allowing the other to have meaningless sex now and then with one outside of the marriage. But of course the only way this will work is if people can get over their urge for exclusivity and jealousy.
May 25th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
Oh yeah, forgot to include, this will of course mean a lot more FWB happening betwixt the sexes. Which could loosen up the LJBF situation, in that these BO’s will be getting a bit of tail now and then from their “girlfriends”.
May 25th, 2014 at 4:25 pm
Yes, very relevant points. Women’s financial independence does seem to prevent any chance for a pre-feminist era to return (assuming of course, the world does not regress to another “dark age” so to speak).
And you are also right to point out that there will be a need for men to adapt. But I still can’t help but wonder how far the pendulum has swung past center as far as feminism influence on society is concerned especially as it pertains to women’s financial independence? Furthermore, how much can things change when the proverbial pendulum swings back in the other direction? …
… If the government stopped financially assisting single mothers?
… If businesses didn’t have to hit a certain quota of female employees?
… If men stopped voluntarily assisting women financially?
… If men stopped sacrificing their ambitions to pursue women (coming full-circle back to how a guy ends up in the “friend zone”)?
Etc.
If these things were to happen as a reaction against feminism, how INDEPENDENT would the majority of women be? Certainly more than they were 300 years ago, but certainly less than they are now, I think.
May 25th, 2014 at 6:20 pm
@Wanderer
No girl ever WANTED to be my friend. Either saying the word implied that I should give up and go away, or she had more in mind than I was wiling to surrender.
May 26th, 2014 at 10:05 am
” If the government stopped financially assisting single mothers?”
+50% of voters women, plus all the manginas trying to get poosy, aint gonna happen
“… If men stopped voluntarily assisting women financially?
… If men stopped sacrificing their ambitions to pursue women (coming full-circle back to how a guy ends up in the “friend zone”)?”
In biology 11, our teacher asked what were the things a person needed to survive? the usual answers about food, oxygen, etc. I raised my hand and said sex. A laugh occurred through the class of course, and the teacher stammered that a person did not need sex to survive. I replied that a person may not need it, but a species does and therefore there would be no people to “need” these things if there wasn’t sex. He basically told me to STFU. But I threw one last bit out, “if people who are starving to death still create kids, then you have to admit that sex is a biological imperative that is as needed as oxygen” Let’s just say he was not impressed!
Men WILL NEVER STOP pursuing the poosy. It is the most biological driven factor of our existence. Some men will pursue with callous regard for the female, others will will try the white knight way (which does work if you are not picky that all the girls you bang must be 7 or above).
So yes the pendulum does always come back, but most times never to where it was.
Just throwing this out there about red pill alpha – why in ancient days did the masters, when leaving for the Crusades, let’s say, lock their women in chastity belts?
May 26th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
@Kate – “Women actually like to have beta orbiters to protect them…from other women.”
I know. That’s what I mean.
A lot of women I have known, especially those more classically beautiful/demure, HAD to make friends with males because they copped so much hate and jealousy from females as CHILDREN. In fact, my ex was so affected by bullying at her all-girls school, it obviously still stunts her self-esteem today, in her 30’s.
If we men think we are in competition, it’s nothing compared to women. They are the most abundant gender, therefore competition for mates is greater. Society perpetuates this and profits on it, massively. It’s basically what drives the economy today.
@angrygamer – “I disagree… It’s not a vicious cycle and the dear ladies should not be sympathized with for playing it. They are all playing the greatest game of all and the reward is for your genetics to be immortal. THERE IS NO GREATER STAKES.”
Please see above. I have to disagree with you, also.
May 26th, 2014 at 4:48 pm
What Eliot Roger failed to come to terms with, or may be simply could not comprehend, as results of severe mental illness, was that he was only just entering the greatest competition of all.
His assumption that his material wealth in some way made him a better reproductive prospect is exactly the kind of superficial 21stC BS philosophy that sickens me. His flashy beemer, his expensive shades, his ‘nice’ clothes. This guy was not only nuts, he was a victim of 21stC material wealth BS, like so many others are.
I agree with him that humanity should be ashamed of itself. But for very different reasons…. for the reasons I cite above; this f*cking BS materialism.
As the old saying goes, don’t hate the player, hate the game.
May 27th, 2014 at 8:02 am
Desire can’t be negotiated. Even if affection/sex are real biological needs, the hard part is accepting the reality that bargaining for them is the nail in the coffin.
We feel cheated because we’re willing to bend over backwards and do whatever it takes to get women to ‘love’ us. We want affection and sex and loyalty and we believe that if we’re nice and good and communicate well — i.e., do all the things mainstream feminist media tells us we as men should do — we’ll get it.
Eliot Roger is an extreme example of the frustration every AFC feels. And the root of the problem is the belief that “If I do this, then I will get that,” which leads to doing “this” and never getting “that” — and then getting very angry when you feel like you’ve been gypped.
Material wealth is ‘supposed’ to attract women, good looks are ‘supposed’ to attract women. It isn’t completely out of line to get angry if you have money and good looks and aren’t getting any women.
I don’t really see it as an “entitlement” mentality, even though it is. What I mean is that it’s the sheer frustration of not getting any sex or affection or even attention from women due to an AFC mindset that’s prompting all of those beliefs.
“I’m doing everything right, and I *even* have more than the average guy of what everyone says women want: good looks, money, nice and polite personality. What the fuck? All I want is sex and attention! Why is that asking so much? Fuck all of you!”
I can relate a lot to what he said about everyone else having sex and fun and enjoying themselves, and feeling bitter about that. Even if it’s an immature response, it is really fucking frustrating when it feels like everyone in the world but you is having sex and fun at least to some extent, and it’s supposed to be so natural and easy, and yet you’re out in the weeds completely incapable of figuring out how to get any of it.
Game is more important than looks and money. I’ve been a failure my whole life with women and I have very good looks — I’ve had plenty of girls tell me that I’m very attractive and that they couldn’t believe I never had a girlfriend. And yet I still have never had a girlfriend and it seems like it’s impossible for me to get laid. Riddle me that.
Game has proven to overcome bad looks and a lack of money. A lack of game has proven to sabotage even very good looks and loads of money. I know firsthand that if you really have no idea what you’re doing and have zero game, you can and will fuck up opportunities with every girl you meet no matter how initially attracted to you they are. I’ve done it my whole life.
The hardest part is coping with the pain of that entitlement mentality: that you’ve jumped through all the hoops they told you to jump through, and you’re getting less than everyone else. You feel entitled to sex and affection and attention because the mass media has TOLD YOU that if you do x, y, and z, you’ll get it.
For all the ranting and raving feminists do about ‘rape culture’ and ‘respecting’ women and ‘treating them as equals,’ women are still fucking all the guys who IGNORE these complaints completely. They get into abusive relationships and then blame the guy abusing them, they get into relationships with the ‘bad boys’ that pump and dump them and then complain about getting pumped and dumped.
And then when AFC Joe is in the corner being their talk therapist the whole time, he gets the “I wish I could find a guy like you” line. That’s enough to piss off the pope.
My own sister complained that her ex-boyfriend, a very attractive, athletic/muscular and hard-working guy she was going out with for several years, who is now making around $100K a year, wasn’t “romantic enough” and broke up with him, and is now dating some weasel that reminds me of Eddie Hascal, who’s also going out with two other girls.
So understandably, men who are spoon-fed this BS from day one will be very angry when they do everything they were supposed to do to get love and attention, and end up with a big handful of absolutely nothing.
The frustration with women comes from believing that they SHOULD react in a certain way, and realizing that they don’t. I was talking to a die-hard AFC guy not too long ago that kept repeating, “Women need to change.”
He was so pissed off that his AFC beta-game wasn’t working, he had no motivation to change himself, and the very idea of that only made him angry because it implied that it was okay for women to be the way they are.
The reality is that women have been and always will be the way they are. And if you want to have success with them, you have to change your attitude.
I’m not happy about it, and I’ve had way worse “luck” with women than anyone else I’ve met.
So to me…if I can consider changing my attitude, and work on myself despite everything I’ve been through, then these people need to shut the fuck up. I have almost killed myself a number of times, still deal with borderline alcohol addiction and self-mutilation, have ZERO sex life, but I’m able to keep it to myself and focus on changing my attitude, because I know that my external world is not going to change until I change my attitude —
— i.e., change the way I respond to the external world, instead of complaining about how fucked up the external world is and staying powerless.
Although I do empathize completely with people who feel that way. I have felt that way, of course. So I don’t want to slam people too hard. But when I hear people complaining about going a few months or a year without getting laid while I’ve been a single virgin my ENTIRE LIFE and have dealt with so much shit in complete isolation, I just feel like backhanding these people in the face.
With my pimp hand. It’s still in training. But at this point in my life, especially with all the pent up rage I have, I would be willing to go head to head with the best of them. The pimpest of all the pimps.
You want me to pay to fuck that bitch? SMACK!! Knock that gold tooth of his right out, put it in his own hand, and then fuck that bitch for FREE!!! Feel that pain? That’s a lifetime of virginity! Now I’m gonna fuck that bitch raw like I’ve wanted my whole life, and you’re going to raise that kid or pay child support or I’m going to get Guido to find you and break your knees and leave you in the corn fields for the crows to eat!
Now all I need is a fur pimp jacket and I’ll be on top of the world.
What can I say…you have to laugh. Shit gets too serious if you can’t loosen up and laugh about things once in a while. Reclaim your manhood, slap a pimp and fuck all his bitches after you pay with with his own gold teeth.
How’s that for alpha? Suck it :D
May 27th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
Excellent post, excellent comments.
I’d love @Rollo’s perspective on this:
What I’m very interested in, is how this dynamic works with a Male to Female application. I haven’t read (perhaps I missed it) any comments here about the dynamic of a Male putting a female in the friend zone. I realize that there is no true benefit here for a man, but I have experimented with this for the hell of it and I have drastically flipped around women’s desire towards me.
Example: I had a gf of 2 years who I broke up with. She was devastated. After about 4 months of seeing other women and no contact I reached out to her and again. I went super beta (after alpha widowing her) and expressed that I missed her, still loved her, bla bla bla. She really wanted to see me again and we got back into a relationship quickly. She never quite trusted me in the ensuing months (obviously) and soon after she moved to a new city. We agreed to let go of the relationship because LDR was not desirable. She said hoped we could try again when she moved back in 2.5 years.
She quickly made a new BF and told me about it. She then tried to friend zone me, made it clear that sex was NOT an option. I went along with it like I was the one friendzoning her and I could tell that her reaction to this was puzzled. I stopped contacting her and she remained in touch with me. The less available I became the more she reached out to me. Then I saw her at a party and she told me she really wanted to sleep with me that night. I told her it wasn’t a good idea, that I respected her new relationship and that I was seeing new people and didn’t want to complicate things in our lives. I have since received 3 more of those sexual offers over 1.5 years, although they have become less direct. I’ve responded to each one that same. I agree that there’s still something between us, but I’m seeing someone and since our circumstance hasn’t changed, I’m not interested in getting involved with anything.
My sexual rejections were fascinating. I got a lot of apologies for them and justification each time, essentially making her not responsible for any intent. Anyways, she’s been with the same bf for over 2 years now and she has never gone more than 3 weeks without reaching out to me. I have almost never reached out to her. She still hears about me all of the time as we share a close group of friends.
This was actually something I read from Roissy. When you get friendzoned, just act like they were always in your friendzone.
Quote from the heartiste blog:
“You are the friend, and she is in your friendzone. You are the alpha male, and she is a contestant for a slot in your harem. You are the doer, the creator, the lover, and she is the appreciator of your masculine vitality, the very vitality that women everywhere secretly envy and wish for themselves. That means, she exists to entertain you. She will enjoy your time when you have time to spare. She is your toy, not the other way around.
Remember this. Now you have inner game. You have the attitude. The attitude will infuse your arteries like rivulets of mutant DNA, transforming you from needy beta to alluring alpha. She’s a strange duck, so full of herself, but you’ll play along. You like to have fun. So you tease her. And you taunt her. And you dismiss her when she tries to angle you as the eunuch lump she used to dump all her gripes on. “So let me tell you about this guy who…” Sssshhhh… be quiet, socially awkward attention whore penguin. Did you know you have funny looking feet? What’s that? Still blabbering about this other guy? Thanks for the medical update on the condition of your vagina. So hot, so attractive. No wonder you’re still single.
Do you see, reader? Have you been darkly enlightened? Then go forth, and recreate. And return here when you have something uplifting to tell us all.”
Interesting stuff. I’d love to hear other people’s input and experiences with this side of it.
May 27th, 2014 at 6:40 pm
@Rust Newman
I happen to believe (from hard experience) that all men should friend zone all women. Considering what a man has to give up from his life to make room for a woman to enter it, she should be making him an offer that he isn’t going to want to refuse. But the offer itself must be accompanied by trust that she will live up to her word, something that isn’t going to happen just because she says it will. The necessary trust is earned, and entitled women aren’t going to go through the effort no matter what they claim. She will have to walk her talk before a man should ever begin to alter his lifestyle to accommodate her. She will have to have invested something of herself instead of just taking from him.
May 27th, 2014 at 8:37 pm
@blurkel
Thanks for that. Very refreshing to read. I find the most empowering (and difficult) reminder to myself in the whole redpill swallowing experience is that as men we are completely free to lead the lives and partake in relationships we choose. I know logically that my freedom lies in the simple pursuit of doing what I choose to do, meaning, experience as many relationships as possible until one may or may not strike me in a more durably fulfilling way. I have no idea who that women will be, but like you said, I know for certain that she will have to make an amazing offer that fits with my lifestyle. I think friendzoning women is a tremendous way to set that frame. Women are so used to having men chase them for tail and do everything they can to get it, that when a man can comfortably and confidently turn it down because it’s just not right for them at the moment – its a major glitch in that feminine matrix. How do they fix it? By trying to correct it, ie. chasing.
Perfect example from Wolf of Wall Street (He fucks her within the hour)
May 28th, 2014 at 1:01 am
[…] friendzone is a self-inflicted mental state. Related: The only way out of the friendzone is to stop being her […]
May 30th, 2014 at 3:10 am
If a woman LJBF’s you, you have failed.
Alas, kick these women to the curb instantly. They are just playing the alpha fucks, beta bucks game with you as the beta. Though you have been sexually been kicked to the curb, delete her from every platform you have her on (facebook, twitter, instagram, etc.)
Women who are interested in you will show you they want you. If a female is playing games, has trust issues, or makes excuses, tell her to fuck off and delete her.
It really is that clear cut and dry. It’s time men stop putting up with female bullshit.
June 6th, 2014 at 3:11 pm
Here is what I have learned from my dealing with women and having female friends. The majority of the time, if you have a female friend, and this woman who is willing to spend quality time alone with you at any hour of the day, she’s DTF. It all depends on you and your game though. If you want to play that friends first route, see what happens, and then pounce when the right moment shows itself, you’re going to be left jerking yourself off every night. If your so called friend is willing to hop in a car with you after dark and spend a couple of hour with you, you best believe she’s willing to spread her legs. If you don’t realize that then you’re fool.
August 4th, 2014 at 11:25 am
[…] a permanent prison? The well-respected Rollo Tomassi over at The Rational Male in a post entitled Purgatory implies that the Friend Zone is inescapable. The experience of many men confirms that they […]