Pro Revenge

Several years ago I wrote the essay Rejection and Revenge. Eventually this piece found its way into my third book Positive Masculinity, but I had considered it for inclusion in the first book because it covered a core principle I had discussed on the SoSuave forums years prior. A desire for revenge is something innate to the human experience. Most higher-order animals have some rudimentary sense of what’s fair. Even dogs have a sense of fairness and can experience some form of jealousy. The study of altruism in animals, to say nothing of humans, is a complex affair. However, somewhere along the evolutionary path a species did better if they cooperated and had some investment in promoting the survival of their kin.

That leads to an innate understanding of fairness and unfairness. Human’s add ethics and morality to this equation, but the root is the same; on some level of consciousness we make comparisons, and from them we evaluate what is equitable according to our own interests. It serves a species’ survival interests to evolve pattern recognition and make reasoned judgments about those patterns.

Collectivists will argue that this dynamic is proof of a need for an idealized egalitarianism to promote the greater good, while selfish gene individualists will argue that it’s evidence of unconditioned self-concern for one’s own survival. Either way, human beings are very motivated by the emotional response to a perceived injustice – so much so that we will raise those feelings to metaphysical significance. Even our gods rage over injustice; Revenge is mine sayeth the Lord. A tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye might make the whole world blind, but it’s the foundation of our evolved sense of fairness.

And why wouldn’t fairness be so impactful for us? Our lizard brains associate that imbalance with a threat to our survival, our wellbeing and our reproductive efforts. Our limbic system detects some unfairness – usually via our peripheral awareness – we get a squirt of some hormonal cocktail into our system, and now we can’t shake this feeling that we ought to feel jealous or suspicious of someone or some environmental condition where we’re getting the short end of the stick. We are literally wired (and piped) for making judgement calls. Even when those judgement calls prove unfounded, and maybe detrimental to us, to err on one side or the other of that innate judgmentalism served our ancestors well enough to get us to where we are now.

It’s easy to consider this evaluating, judgmental nature in terms of simplistic right or wrong choices. Right being what ever benefits the individual in equal measure to another, wrong being whatever thoughts or behaviors conceal the interests of individual self-concern. The Seven Deadly Sins are all fundamentally about this evolved fairness equation. Greed might be a benefit to the individual – and their kin by association – but to our limbic evaluation it’s unfair to the greater, necessitous whole of society. Ergo, greed becomes a sin, and social conventions like do unto others as you would have done unto you becomes a counterbalance to the unfairness. However, most of the choices we make in life are not simple right vs. wrong equations. Some of the greatest stories ever told by humans are about right vs. right and wrong vs. wrong (or maybe less wrong) choices. While dogs may feel jealousy, and chimps may give a banana to another who didn’t get one, they’re rarely confronted with the nuances of justice that humans have to consider.

Why We Love Revenge

When we attach this innate sense of fairness to biological imperatives things get dicey. The purview of my work is intersexual dynamics, so I’ll be focusing on that imperative here. But remember that concepts like fairness, jealousy, revenge, rivalry and the indignation that accompany these and more are not just limited to solving one’s reproductive problem. That said, human beings love revenge. We fantasize about it. We write epics about revenge. Some invest their lives in creating fictions to find some psychological catharsis for an injustice they will never actually resolve in their lifetime. I would argue that humans enjoy the chemical cocktail, and associated emotions, that stem from a desire for revenge.

To be clear, I’m not talking about some ephemeral sense of justice. This is root-level, squirt of adrenaline, desire to balance a perceived or actual unfairness that threatens the individual’s (or associated group) survival or propagation. I’ve written extensively about women’s innate need for Indignation and the associated chemical-emotional response they derive from it. Primarily I believe this need stems from the way women (neurologically) prioritize and process emotion, but it also serves as a confirmation of their Hypergamous filtering. No indignation is more satisfying for women than the feelings they derive from thwarting the sexual efforts of a false-Alpha male. This indignation response, and the good feels that reinforce it, serves to aid (sometimes trick) women’s sexual selection imperatives and avoid their existential fear. Ultimately, what’s fair for women is whatever serves the Sisterhood’s Hypergamous best interests.

For men, and particularly the young men of this new order generation, revenge fantasies hold a similar, indignant appeal. As we’ve systematically feminized the males of the last 4 generations, we’ve also conditioned them to prioritize the same emotional responses we would expect in women. As I’m fond of saying, we raise boys as defective girls who then become parodies of defective women. Part of this conditioning is training young men to identify with the female experience, but also to want to become a part of that experience. The female experience is always the “correct” experience. So it follows that the prioritization of emotion as a peak experience is something this generation of men have internalized. Feels before reals. A common lament of women and feminized men today is that if men could be more expressive in their emotions (the emotions women are comfortable with) then the world would be a better place. Thinking and feeling like a woman makes for a better “man“, right? That’s today’s gynocentric logic.

But indignation (the result of inherent unfairness) based on reproductive imperatives works very differently in men. Men’s evolved existential fear is based on ensuring his own paternity. Determining that a child is a man’s actual genetic progeny has been an imperative evolution has embedded in men’s mental firmware. Until DNA testing arrived men had relatively no empirical way to determine if he was a cuckold (a female mating strategy) and his parental investment and evolutionary imperative had been wasted. Thus, indignation, prompted men to create social conventions to provide at least the semblance of socially enforced parental certainty. The deal is, if a man is to invest his reproductive potential in a woman and their children she should be bound by social expectations that the child is his genetic progeny. It’s only fair.

But, life’s not fair. And men and women’s reproductive strategies are inherently adversarial, so what constitutes justice in the sexual marketplace is often defined by the gender with the most social power at the time. In every age prior to the Sexual Revolution that was men, now it’s women.

Men innately process emotion, particularly negative emotion, differently than women. Again, this is how evolution wired men, but the social dictates of this time go to great lengths to condition men to believe that the way they process emotion is “incorrect”. Their natural proclivities make them bad humans when their innate way of being emotional conflicts with the “correct” female way of experiencing emotion they were taught. As a result of this conflict we have recent generations of men who seek the same indignation rush women have an innate attraction to. However, these young men get their endorphin rush from revenge scenarios that align with their innate imperatives – exposing paternity fraud, cuckoldry and exposing the duplicity of women’s innate mating strategies.

Comeuppance

Revenge is an expanding topic of interest for average frustrated young men. Closing in on almost a million subscribers, the Reddit sub-forum r/prorevenge is one of the fastest growing topics on the platform today. I was only made aware of the sub after doing some research on the popularity of tags for YouTube videos. ‘Pro Revenge’ is a Black Pill (and MGTOW) sweetheart tag for what I referred to as the Doom Pill in my video Red Meat for the Red Pill. The Pro Revenge concept is simple; guys in the forum relate stories about how ‘deserving’ people got their comeuppance. Justice or Karma is served up to cheaters, scammers, liars, thieves and other assorted attempts to offend our innately human sense of fairness. To be fair, all Pro Revenge topics are not about cheating or duplicitous women – there are loads of stories about bad employers, plagiarists and Success Porn gurus – but real-world revenge stories about women’s duplicity being thwarted by a smart Red Pill guy or just blind circumstance are clearly the most popular themes.

The popularity of young men experiencing revenge either in fantasy or vicariously through others is becoming a very lucrative profit model for agile YouTube channel hosts as well as Lifestyle Coaches. When I consider the ceaseless hunger for Red Meat topics in the Black Pill, MGTOW or just the Manosphere in general the source of that hunger always comes back to the emotional rush attendant to indignation. When a woman “gets hers” because her mating or empowerment strategy was foiled, men get a sense of righteous indignation; particularly guys who enjoy commiserating in their shared sense of powerlessness. And that commiseration has never been easier or more organized than in our new order technological world. Pro Revenge is just one of many innovations that cater to men’s desire to see things put straight and experience the endorphin rush that comes with it. It feels good to see “justice” served.

Of course, women turned the revenge fantasy into various art forms long ago. Carrie Underwood sings openly about vandalizing and destroying a cheating (now ex) lover’s expensive four-wheel drive truck and countless commiserating women (even today) can recite the lyrics verbatim. In a gynocentric social order, destruction of personal property is entirely acceptable if the perpetrator is a woman who discovered her duplicitous lover was not the man her Hypergamous instincts believed him to be. Women’s existential fear meets justice. And women and feminine-sympathetic men all nod in agreement. Essentially, Pro Revenge has been a thing for women for ages. Courtesy of centuries of bastardized Chivalry and the romantic ideal we just accept it more because Beta men reinforce it as a form of Game. Thus, we have women manufacturing their own indignation in fiction and daytime talk shows that expose an incorrigible pickup artist getting his comeuppance and confirm women’s Hypergamous intuitions. And yet, even this openly embraced double standard only serves as fuel for the Pro Revenge instincts of more young men today.

For all the hopelessness and despondency the information age has brought to men and women it’s also revealed the evolved motives beneath our want for what we think is justice. The Doom Pill is becoming the logical extension of this nihilism and the players in the Hustle Economy are now perfecting ways to profit from it. Exploiting the Gender War for fun and profit has never been easier – because this new generation of men and women enjoy the indignation derive from it so much they become oblivious to their own exploitation.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
11 days ago

Thanks, Rollo, for all the stuff that you do.

jon
jon
11 days ago

Did you notice Elon Musk tweeting The Medium is the Message?

Sentient
Sentient
11 days ago

Yay Rollo! Would be great if the comment box could follow the last ent too…

wodansthane
11 days ago

This becomes really fascinating, and nuanced, when factored in with group evolutionary strategies. I’d like to see what Kevin MacDonald’s take on this would be.

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peregrinejohn
peregrinejohn
11 days ago

The motivation doesn’t even have to be real, depending on the mindset. In Underwood’s song, it’s real vandalism based on a lot of “probably” conjectures.

And how many of the damn fools who know the song by heart have even noticed?

IAS
IAS
11 days ago

@Rollo: thank you for giving attention to the comment issues, and thanks as usual for hosting the very valuable community!

SJF
SJF
11 days ago

Well, you can get rid of the (non-masculine) clinically retarded plug-ins for WordPress.

Really? Online/offline? Thumbs Up/Thumbs down?–Like you mean like feminine sites like FaceBook?

Compressed comments? Why? Because you thought it was a thing? Which aren’t actually easier to read? And then got fucked up?

I hate to comment with this but only to say those plug-ins were kinda negatively stupid.

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
11 days ago

I like the compressed comments. You don’t have to scroll through miles and miles of shit from some retard

walawala
walawala
10 days ago

Revenge is great if it’s a motivator to move on and improve so you don’t ever have to endure whatever situation caused you the distress—a break-up, getting fired, getting passed over.

Revenge is not healthy if it becomes an obsession.

Success is the best revenge…

Jell
Jell
10 days ago

Rollo, you have to look at this story. Hilarous from a Red Pill perspective. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/23/business/omegaverse-erotica-copyright.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

Coolio
Coolio
10 days ago

Success is not the best revenge.

Revenge is the best revenge.

DDDD
DDDD
10 days ago

I have a thought related to the Rejection and Revenge essay, and the good point it makes about how the best revenge is a life well lived. I don’t care about revenge but I do hate being taken advantage of; this prevents me from entering situations/deals/arrangements which, while necessary for me to have a well lived life, disproportionately benefit an opposing party. For example, during a long-running real estate bubble I could afford a house to live in and it would improve my life. But I’d feel like a chump paying a high price to a previous owner who, simply… Read more »

William Gould
William Gould
10 days ago

Country music has some good stories here. Think of Charley Pride “The Snakes Come out in the Evening” and Porter Wagoneer “The Cold Hard Facts of Life”. Both date before the Sexual Revolution.

SJF
SJF
10 days ago

Coolio Success is not the best revenge. Revenge is the best revenge. Hey coolio, my man, where have you been? Tell us more about yourself. A story, perhaps: “Make sense with stories. If you give people facts without a story, they will explain it within their existing belief system. The best way to promote a new or different belief is not with facts, but with a story.” I never quite accepted your thrash talking. Or believe you are anything. I could be wrong. Because you never volunteered much of anything at all. Got girls? Gym rat? Wealth, money, status? Simple… Read more »

Jens
Jens
10 days ago

Having fairly recently found this blog and studied about hypergamy… Oh well, where was this information in my life before, lol? Anyway, it really enhances my decision to live my own life in my own way, have firm opinions about world matters, to the extent of women getting angry at them or even flat-out hating me for having opinions. But it doesn’t really matter, that’s how it is supposed to be it seems. If women hate you, it’s better if you don’t exist for them, lol. Not that it has made me sexually attractive to women as of now, but… Read more »

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
10 days ago

@Jens Welcome. You’ve started the path but there’s a lot of reading to do which is just the start of the internal work. Women don’t really hate you, and if it looks like they do then it’s because you’re being too subservient and they sense weakness in your personality. It’s that which they despise. At the other end of the spectrum they “hate” you but love you at the same time because you won’t fold into their frame. Given the state of society it’s not actually that difficult to get into the top 20% – so take it over to… Read more »

walawala
walawala
9 days ago

Revenge is the best revenge is very Gamma….

Plotting the demise of your enemies or that girl who hurt your feewings is a waste of time…

Having her notice you after you’ve stopped thinking about her? Best revenge.

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
9 days ago

@walawala

I don’t think you should ever get yourself in a situation where revenge is even a thing.

It’s sucks of over investment in a particular and having lost hand.

If some shit goes down you should be shrugging it off.

I’ve noticed over the years that when people lose their shit over stuff it’s usually because their life isn’t going very well on a whole host of different levels.

Sentient
Sentient
9 days ago

This pro revenge stuff is just posturing and not even revenge in nearly all cases, it’s schadenfreude. It’s not a blow done by the wronged.

A study

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fHSRS_nqAF8

Sentient
Sentient
9 days ago

And yet lots of motivation for revenge

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a8B5lCOBUis

j
j
9 days ago
Sentient
Sentient
9 days ago
Coolio
Coolio
9 days ago

WalaWala. ***** You’ve obviously never been in a situation where revenge was required. ***** Your use of the word Gamma tells me a lot. Stop doing things – like using that type of language (among other things) – and your feelings won’t get hurt.

Coolio
Coolio
9 days ago

SJF. ***** I can see some of your comment – but I can’t read the entire thing. This website’s ability to open larger comments appears to be busted. ***** What exactly would you like to know ? I don’t think it really matters what I say about myself, because you probably wouldn’t believe me anyhow. I have a difficult time believing it myself.

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
9 days ago

^* ahh it’s the liebert prick again that was sock puppeting @if-I-fell

Coolio
Coolio
9 days ago

I have no idea if the previous comment was directed at me. ***** If it was – I have no idea who liebert is, and I have no idea who if-I-fell is. ***** Should I care ?

walawala
walawala
9 days ago

@Palma Yes and that gets back into the abundance mentality.

It’s also important not to confuse “revenge” with standing up for yourself.

@ Sentient I think there is some sense of satisfaction at being right or seeing someone who disrespected you somehow falter or fail. But that’s not “revenge”.

The obsessive act of getting even is different from the concept of making things right.

rugby11
9 days ago

Revenge
https://www.scienceofpeople.com/the-psychology-of-revenge/
Formula
https://bit.ly/2ytIm2T
Ultimate male revenge

RP edition

Jay Fink
Jay Fink
8 days ago

A country song with revenge from a man’s perspective is Toby Keith “How Do You Like Me Now”. Except instead of committing a crime like in the Carrie Underwood song (a male artist could never get away with those type of lyrics!) it has a success revenge theme. The woman rejected him when he was a nobody but then became a country music superstar.

Last edited 8 days ago by Jay Fink
Rudolph
Rudolph
7 days ago

I think revenge is one of the easiest things to fall into a cognitive dissonance black hole around. We often hold lots of contradictory notions. With revenge as noted in the essay, “An eye for an eye makes the world blind.” What the essay left out is that the man who turns the other cheek gets bruises on both sides of his face. There is a difficult line to walk in between the two.

Fact
Fact
6 days ago

…and then one day you wake up and realize that all your old buddies have morphed into beta male provider simps who get sex once a month in the missionary position from their wives who slowly got fat over the last 10 years.

You can’t talk about it with them or you won’t have friends. You cant hang with them anymore because they are too beta.

What do you do as red pill aware?

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
6 days ago

@Fact

There are a very very small minority of men that get it.

^^ that is exactly what happened to all my married friends.

You have to pro actively troll for like minded men. If you go hard you can probably find one a year.

Apart from that hang out in here.

SJF
SJF
6 days ago

“You can’t talk about it with them or you won’t have friends. You cant hang with them anymore because they are too beta. What do you do as red pill aware?” Friendships are ephemeral. They don’t have to be. But they often are. You move on and associate with others and get new friends. Or not. Don’t fit square pegs into round holes. A lot of times the beta is in stasis. Your job is to keep moving forward. And one note to say: red pill friends change and move on too. Because by nature a lot of red pill… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 days ago

What do you do as red pill aware?

You become your MPoO and you don’t expect more from others than they can give.

And if you go out, you will find a few like-minded guys. But they aren’t going to want to coffee klatch, they will be doing stuff.

Centuries
Centuries
6 days ago

oh and the meme of Make Women Great Again is a beta ploy based in the wrong MPoO. You don’t approach it from the perspective of making them anything. Change yourself from within – burden of performance – create and lead and draw women in on the correct side of desire for you – next them otherwise

Fact
Fact
6 days ago

Make Women Great Again is purple pill marketing slogan used to sell tickets to men who want to bring their wives along to ADJ bitch muscle events.

Playdirty
5 days ago

“You’ve become harsh towards women,” a lifelong friend told me, like since the Army infantry boot camp Day 1. “No, just aware.” We are still good friends, but we live in different worlds. I changed more. I do not expect things when a person does not have them to give, or can not because it would destroy their personal story. A lot of my friends do not want to hear of “hot female bodies”, or even my own success at staying lean, because their women said “fuck it” and went for the chips, chardonnay, etc…It is amazing how a woman… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 days ago

Pro Revenge is un-necessary. It is not actually a red pill way of proceeding. IDK. It must have to do with if a masculine male is executing his pro-creative strategy or not. (If you get laid with ease, or have your children and gracefully proceed to raising them with your LTR partner/wife along side till their adulthood and there-after. Then you are not so ill at ease. Paternity certainty. Regular sex. Whatever. There is grace in that state.) And it’s funny, is this current Karen meme a way of pro-revenge? How come people say the same stuff all the time?… Read more »

Last edited 5 days ago by SJF
If-I-Fell
If-I-Fell
4 days ago

The Male Life Cycle When I was 13, I hoped that one day I would have a girlfriend with big tits. When I was 16, I got a girlfriend with big tits, but there was no passion; So, I decided I needed a passionate girl with a zest for life. When I was 19, I dated a passionate college girl, but she was too emotional. Everything was an emergency; she was a drama queen, cried all the time and threatened suicide. So, I decided I needed a girl with stability. When I was 25, I found a very stable girl,… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
3 days ago

The one thing any woman can’t stand to hear.

Pro “revenge” right there. Nexted.

disgruntledearthling
disgruntledearthling
3 days ago

@If I Fell
The Male Life Cycle

Thanks, that one made me laugh. Nice to do once in a while when depressed

The Silver FoX
The Silver FoX
3 days ago

The horrid Australian man-hating feminist Clementine Ford has had her misandrist pants pulled with her recent Tweet that the Coronavirus “wasn’t killing men fast enough…” Her grotesque physical appearance complements her toxic persona perfectly…

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/clementine-ford-pulls-writing-grant-application-after-covid-19-tweet-20200529-p54xvj.html

Sentient
Sentient
2 days ago

Well at least all SJWs don’t look like Trigglypuff…

https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/31/black-woman-confronts-two-white-protesters-tagging-starbucks-blm/

Excellent capture…

Johann Liebert
Johann Liebert
2 days ago

Red Pill clearly dictates that there are differences between black and White race. Here is a link Twitter likes diversity (trigger warned) : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NY-8XT0-FmK1dn57eSTXpnUZJhv4H54G

Another link Mark Lizardberg of Facebook likes Men hating feminists (trigger warned) : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lRYExocUhSvTreT56coXBZhClu2AdwYH

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
2 days ago

It’s caught on over here too
comment image

Fact
Fact
2 days ago

Why are euro-tards jumping on the floyd protest bandwagon? Whats the chance europeans are ever going to get hassled by american police?

Too many pandemic layoffs.

Sentient
Sentient
2 days ago

Whats the chance europeans are ever going to get hassled by american police?

It has nothing at all to do with that.

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
2 days ago

@Fact

In the U.K. it’s the latest distraction to try to derail BREXIT

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
2 days ago

Sentient
Well at least all SJWs don’t look like Trigglypuff…

Those are dressed as Antifa. Maybe wannabes, maybe groupies.
A man in SoCal told me that at first all the “protestors” he saw were 20-something girls trying to look hot and taking selfies. Waiting for the guys to show up, of course.

Later on when the Grove mall got broken into he saw more ordinary thieves.

Sentient
Sentient
1 day ago

AR Yes antifa are not known to wear fancy pink back packs… In other news. https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/31/george-floyds-family-intends-to-have-an-independent-autopsy-performed/ I suspect we will go through a few rounds of this until things fit the narrative just so. If you watch the full interaction it’s clear that Floyd resisted getting out of the car and is in great emotional distress at being arrested. He also looks inebriated. Also the officer who cuffed him is a minority. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DNX8-PWCi6E What I’ve not yet seen is the transition from standing to the floor. I have a feeling why. But enjoy your curfews… 🙃 Loading...

theasdgamer
1 day ago

Chauvin and Floyd worked at the same restaurant for 17 years. There’s some funny business about that restaurant which I haven’t figured out yet.

SJF
SJF
1 day ago

“A man in SoCal told me that at first all the “protestors” he saw were 20-something girls trying to look hot and taking selfies. Waiting for the guys to show up, of course.”   What a lovely weekend. Beautiful weather. One of my buddies, former commentator here met me at my wildlife habitat farm on Saturday while my wife went golfing with her BFF pal. We toured the place– like the garden of eden looking, with lots of habitat improvement projects by me over the last 13 years– and then ran through handgun target shooting. I loaned him a couple… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by SJF
SJF
SJF
1 day ago

Shit, nice formatting and no edit button.
 
Wait, the edit button showed up after a minute and allows for paragraph spacing. The original post of a comment doesn’t.
 
The edit icon cog only shows up if you put the cursor over your previous comment, then put the cursor on the cog and edit shows up. Then you have to click on the word edit below that.
 

Last edited 1 day ago by SJF
theasdgamer
1 day ago

I’m having such a good time reading the twitter comments by New Yorkers whining about Cuomo and DeBlasio. I bet Antifa doesn’t make it to the Florida Keys or Puerto Rico or Hawaii.

PalmaSailor
PalmaSailor
1 day ago

@SJF

“I”ll have sex with you if you wear a Breathe Right Nasal Strip.”

Careful with that. Might think about smacking her arse and refusing next time she puts a condition..

Just my $0.02.

Sentient
Sentient
23 hours ago

∆∆∆ That is some strange dominatrix shit… 😂

SJF
SJF
21 hours ago

“I”ll have sex with you if you wear a Breathe Right Nasal Strip.”

It was not at all conditional. She just clumsily juxtaposed it for no reason. It was a total non-sequitur. She wanted to have sex. So it was humorous to me. She wanted me to wear one so I didn’t snore as much during deep sleep later on. The real point of the story is that watching the riots turned her on.

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