What makes a guy “creepy”?
For almost every woman I polled in researching this essay what makes a guy ‘creepy’ is the inability of a guy to ‘take a hint’.
Most seemed to believe that there was some ‘obvious’ (to them) boundary that ‘creepy’ men always crossed that made them into creeps. If that sounds a lot like my principle of ‘Just Get It’ you’re not too far off. Much of this goes back to women’s innate psychological filtering for optimizing Hypergamy and women expect men to ‘just get’ everything about intersexual dynamics, both positive and negative. However, there is a fundamental difference between what men define as creepy (in a general sense) and what women ‘feel’ is creepy with regards to creepy men. I’ll go into both in this essay, but it’s important to make this distinction because for both men and women there is a peripheral awareness about other people’s behavior that sets off psychological triggers which inform us that something isn’t quite right about that person and to beware of danger.
Personally, I believe we have evolved a pretty good instinct about what makes us feel unsafe about other people. For people who have some sort of clinical neurosis sometimes all it takes is to listen to that person’s speech or watch their mannerisms. If you meet someone who is drunk, it’s pretty easy to diagnose that person’s state without having to smell their breath. We instinctively get a feeling that this person is not speaking (slurring) or behaving like a sober person would. Drunkenness is an easy illustration of this instinct, but the same goes for true forms of insanity (schizophrenia, paranoia, bipolar disorder). Unless we’re really naive or just ignoring the indicators we can tell when a person is off.
Dementia and Alzheimers are easy diagnoses too. From there though, by degrees of subtlety, we really have to hone our senses to what’s right or wrong about a person’s behavior. What’s more difficult to wrap our heads around is sussing out people who have a better capacity to hide their disorders. Autism, Asperger’s Syndrome or just acute social awkwardness is sometimes manageable and we either accept it as part of their personality or we understand it as a disorder and we (as “normies”) choose to ignore it. This is where the social conditioning of today does us a disservice to some extent.
In our feminine-primary social order of tolerance and acceptance, this innate, often peripheral or unconscious, sense of understanding that something is off about someone is something we are taught we ought to keep sublimated. We don’t want to appear “judgmental” or we’re shamed for actually heeding the messages our instincts are telling us are red flags about people. Conditions and disorders that we used to consider abnormalities in the past are things we’re expected to progressively have more and more empathy for. That isn’t to say that we ought not be sympathetic to a person’s condition, but it is to say that this expectation of acceptance reduces our capacity to listen to what our instinct is telling us about a person. We get conditioned to tuning out our natural instincts about a person who may want to harm or manipulate us.
I mentioned this hindbrain instinct in Gut Check as being one reason we tend to get jealous or possessive of our mates.
Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.
The dynamic of Mate Guarding is also a behavioral adaptation that evolved to ensure our paternity or parental investment with a mate. Our social order today teaches us that men who feel jealousy, suspect infidelity or are prone to mate guard are by definition “insecure”. This redefining is meant to cover for women’s control of Hypergamy, in the hopes that men will self-police these instincts, but in doing so they become sublimated. So we self-convince that it’s wrong for us to heed what our hindbrain is telling us for our own preservation.
However, when it comes to women’s instincts we exaggerate their importance beyond all realistic measure. Since we prioritize women’s hindbrain perception and feeling above all else, we would never downplay their importance without risking a lot of social fallout and shame. Whereas men’s instincts are signs of ‘insecurity’, women’s instincts (feminine intuition) are raised to a metaphysical level. So when a woman says a guy “creeps her out” or is acting “creepy” we tend to misunderstand what exactly it is her hindbrain is telling her and us. There are two aspects of ‘creepy’ to women:
- The sense of self-preservation and imminent danger that is associated with a man whom her hindbrain is telling her that there’s something not quite right about. The guy is directly communicating or subcommunicating that he may be a potential threat to her wellbeing. Her intuition is something that is exaggerated beyond all reasonable, realistic perception, but her subconscious only knows what it knows and the social conditioning kicks in to be overly cautious. This may or may not be the actual case, but women evolved to err on the side of over-cautiousness – particularly when it comes to men’s behavioral cues and perceptions of anger.
- The sense of insult to her capacity to optimize Hypergamy with a suboptimal male makes her “creeped out”. In this sense the “creep” offends her hindbrain’s expectation of reproducing with the best genetic partner her ego believes is really her due. As you’ll see in a moment, when a physically arousing man repeats the same behavior as a less-arousing man the feeling of ‘creep’ is diminished. Much of this has a lot to do with that guy’s sense of congruency between his behavior (sub-communications) and her intuition about his authenticity, but largely the initial ‘hotness’ of one man vs. a less hot one can spell the difference between a “creep” and “awkward-but-cute”. Arousal compensates for a lot of behavioral miscues, but the point is that this sense of ‘creepiness’ is fundamentally based in a woman’s ego-sense of losing direct control of Hypergamy and her capacity to optimize it. What ‘creepy’ distills down to is a woman’s Hypergamous-level revulsion of a man believing he may be someone she would eventually have sex with. Creepy is an insult to Hypergamy.
In both these instances it’s important to consider that we’re talking about both an instinctual dynamic and how it’s been modified by our social order. The following are a few of the most common descriptions of ‘creepy’ I was able to collate for this essay:
Getting in my personal space when I don’t know/barely know you. It’s weird and uncomfortable, and if you’re bigger than me then it can feel quite intimidating.
When I worked in a bar one guy told me I was prettier than anyone else there. But he kept going on about how they weren’t attractive and had nothing to offer as far as looks go. Yeah? Some of those are my dearest friends you’re bashing.
When I make it clear I’m not interested and he keeps trying. It makes me feel uncomfortable and it puts me in a bad position cause there are only so many times you can politely turn someone down.
Over Persistence
It’s an unfortunate but totally predictable response to much of our entertainment, where the storyline involves a man “winning” an initially uninterested woman either by wooing her directly or by performing some great feat. We’ve seen this archetypal story for centuries (since the rise of courtly love). Persistence is always rewarded in Disney Blue Pill fantasies Everyone is the hero of their own story. So if you’re raised on stories like that, of course you don’t take an initial “no” as the final answer. It’s all part of the story. You’re the hero and you want her, so you’ll get her in the end.
Persistence is always a sensitive topic in the ‘sphere. Some guys will tell you that even without Indicators of Interest a woman is only a conversation away from being into you if your Game is good enough to convince her. Others will tell you to balance your efforts and play to your strengths; why bother with a dead end if other opportunities are available? In either case a guy can come off as creepy when he takes this persistence to the extreme. It’s one thing to not “take a hint” from a woman, it’s an order of degree worse when a guy persists in not taking that hint because he’s been taught he’ll be rewarded for persistence.
I have had the “attempts-at-polite-rejection” turn scary (thankfully, the worst it ever got was being slammed into a wall) enough times that as soon as someone doesn’t take “no” for an answer once, I start internally freaking out.
Persistence when a woman has rejected a guy is the top complaint of creepiness. Women expect a guy to ‘just get it’. Social retardation (I mean that in a clinical sense) and Blue Pill conditioning teach a guy to never give up, to believe in some kind of predestination or romantic soul-mate date with fate, and all he needs to do is be persistent and a woman will come to the same romantic-but-logical conclusion.
Women make the mistake of believing all guys understand when they are communicating rejection to them – they very often don’t, and for the same reason they’ve been taught to be zealously persistent. The Blue Pill makes them resistant to this. Blue Pill ‘creeps’ usually respond with either anger or self-pity when they finally realize their predestined girl not only rejects him, but she is scared of him or despises him. So the Nice Guy turns mean and vindictive, or he loses faith in his Blue Pill romanticization and gets despondent. Both are potentially volatile for the Beta.
I think a lot of well-meaning Beta “Nice Guys” come off as creepy simply because they follow a Blue Pill old-books script they believe will be reciprocated by women. Much of this creepiness is the result of their inability to do a realistic assessment of their own SMV. This is a tough bit of insight even for Red Pill aware men, but for Blue Pill guys it’s almost impossible because they are struggling against a social conditioning that constantly tells them what they do and who they are is ‘enough’ – or should be enough for any girl who’s of a quality to appreciate their unique-but-commonness.
In a way it’s a lot like today’s women’s egos being overinflated by social media and our present social narrative to the point that they believe their own SMV is, or should be, enough for any man, but especially men who are well above their own SMV. More than enough actually. So too does the ‘creep’ believe his own pathological self-impression. The problem here is that, for men, we must be the initiators and with that comes the potential to be taken as an aggressor or harasser.
Where’s my hug?
I think one potentially bad outcome for the ‘creep’ is when he comes across something like a PUA program and watches an ‘instructor’ run through a set and then tries his damnedest to repeat the same behaviors and script with a girl he thinks he may have a chance with. When a PUA presumes familiarity with a woman he doesn’t know, and his internal game is congruent with his delivery, it comes off as authentic and it can (potentially) be endearing. But when a Beta ‘creep’, who’s trying his best to solve his creepiness problem, presumes the same behavior will endear him to a girl – and isn’t congruent, or doesn’t “get it” – he gets even more despondent (or frustrated/aggravated) when all it does is reinforce and enhance his perception of creepiness.
A common Game technique is to presume a familiarity with a woman. When PUA with Game and congruency approaches a woman and says “where’s my hug?” the effect is the polar opposite of when an incongruent Beta delivers the same line. Worse still, the guy risks not just overt rejection and creepiness perception, but he also runs the risk of having his approach considered sexual assault by order of degree. I would argue that a lot of what would otherwise be considered witty banter from a skilled PUA is creepy to women when it comes from a struggling Beta who a woman doesn’t find arousing.
This dynamic also extends to over-sexualizing a conversation with women when no context has been established between the creep and the girl.
I get creeped out by guys who immediately start talking about sexual topics in response to everything you say, every single time you are within communicating distance of each other while you two barely know each other to drop a “hint”. I had a guy that found a way (albeit poorly) to turn everything I said sexual. And whenever I called him out on it and told him to knock it off, I was being a “prude”.
Also, asking personal (sexual) questions or sharing stories of the same, especially if you’re not even casual acquaintances. I know a lot of women who want to be polite but are totally creeped out by this.
What’s fascinating about this sex-conversation creep is that, when the reverse is true, there’s no better indicator that a woman is into having sex with a you. In an upcoming essay I’ll outline our social progression towards a unilateral control of every aspect of the intersexual process by women, but for now consider that when a woman immediately presumes a sexual context in conversation it’s a solid confirmation that you’ve passed (or are passing) her Hypergamous filter. And that’s the fundamental nature of this kind of creepy guy; he presumes an acknowledged state of sexual-ness without having passed this Hypergamous determination. I’ve said in the past that women don’t decide in the first five minutes of meeting a guy if she will have sex with him, rather, she knows if she wont have sex with him.
Again, Game sometimes reinforces the idea that a guy needs to establish a sexual context with a woman from the opening, but the creep doesn’t understand the artistry and nuance that goes along with applying this. My friend, Alan Roger Currie, is a big proponent of straight up, “I wanna fuck you, are you down?” style of direct Game. While I have seen this effective with women it does promote the idea that a guy can simply presume a sexual context with any woman from the outset. And really, when a creep tries to drop ‘hints’ about sex or attempts to get personal information in a blunderingly obvious (but he thinks stealthy) way he’s not employing a direct Game – he’s beating around the bush in the hopes that he’ll pass her sex test.
When a less-than-proficient, less-than-arousing Beta adopts this direct-but-not-directness he runs the risk of being perceived as creepy, or worse, as a harasser. For a mature, socially savvy man, the obvious retort is “well, no guy should presume anything, there needs to be some kind of rapport’, but remember, we’re talking about guys who in large part Don’t Get It. This should make for a good conversation this week. Let me know your thoughts on what you think constitutes ‘creepiness’ in the comments.
As I was researching and writing on this topic It occurred to me how deep this dynamic really is, so I’ve decided to split it into a series. In part two we’ll go into a bit more of what makes for creepiness in a Hypergamous context. I’ll also delve into how creepiness has been developed into a feminine-operative social convention.
Lol.
OK, the facial expressions are from Emotions Revealed: Recognizing Faces and Feelings to Improve Communication and Emotional Life by Paul Ekman. The book includes many more, larger and better quality photos, but that’s the best set (still incomplete) I could find online. Since we’re on the new comments page, a reminder of the expressions and their description from the book. #1 Slight sadness. If you thought of any related word, such as “blue” or “dejected” or “depressed,” that would also be correct. The expression is shown in the drooping upper eyelids. Tired or sleepy could also be correct, not because… Read more »
@stuffinbox “Without reading body language or hearing speech inflections. She is basically acting and giving of a phony asshole vibe in every pic. This may be what she is trying to get across with her photo test.” This is the problem with this kind of study. You either ask someone to ‘act’ the emotion or you try to record them without them knowing what you’re after (but then you somehow need to make them feel the emotion or wait for it to occur). PUA infields will have targets’ faces blurred out for obvious reasons, so this is always the missing… Read more »
@Sentient
“Are there any samples with an attractive girl? That girl is weird looking, boyish…”
I know what you’re after on the Internetz all day so I fixed it for ya:
http://en.bcdn.biz/Images/2010/9/27/5e656bed-873a-4fc4-bc6c-dcfd291ef805.jpg
They’re all about to sneeze…How do you calibrate to that?!
@Sentient
”Spot the moment of her discernment.”
1:09
She’s annoyed by his repeated statement about mp3s, but that’s not the tipping point yet (a player could use similar patronizing negs and it would work well).
It’s when he fails the Secret Society aka “do you just get it” shit test. She decides to drop the bomb and cut the crap after hearing “what do you do” question for the n-th time.
“They’re all about to sneeze…How do you calibrate to that?!”
Duck while reaching for a rag.
@Blax – re “practicing subcomms” – this is a misinterpretation of what PUA teaches. You can’t practice subcomms as such (well you can a little bit – as Sentient says there’s an element of fake it till you make it and it becomes internalized and authentic – so you fix the most obvious body language mistakes and stuff like that, but mostly that’s not what’s happening in PUA teaching). For the most part, you practice *actions*, and you get more and comfortable with doing those actions and you build more and more reference experiences of those actions succeeding, as you… Read more »
“You either ask someone to ‘act’ the emotion or you try to record them without them knowing what you’re after (but then you somehow need to make them feel the emotion” “You could watch actors, but it’s not guaranteed you won’t be misled by wrongly acted expressions.” This is a large part of the lie in the entertainment industry. Even if the actor is feeling the emotion, The director in preparing for a production or final cut will work on each actor changing motion,adding emphasis, adjusting volume and clarity until he is satisfied. Directors project as much as actors their… Read more »
good shit @Culum
Clip 4,He thinks he’s the leader,she owns his ass.
Clip 8,He was always the leader till he retired then moved into her frame.
Clip 9, The shorter of the two indicated males leads the leader being the taller
@IRL
Vanessa Van Edwards has a chapter all on reading microexpressions and the right way on how to respond to them in her book Captivate. Here’s her YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V_TftAt6cE
picked it up after the top comment in this thread (his comment is unfortunately now deleted) as the top pick for learning people skills and Body Language reading:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PickUpTorrents/comments/6zbvcf/question_outside_of_pickup_who_is_legit_in_their/
‘#6
A masked expression of anger. The person looks happy because of her smiling lips, but the eyebrows don’t fit an enjoyable emotion.’
That’s always the look they have before they spout out their ‘sassy, sarcastic’ remark.
#2 is the same face Jennifer Grey did to Charlie Sheen initially in Ferris Bueller before he told her off.
Culum “There are many examples, but for eg, learning to go in for the kiss. You start off doing it awkwardly and badly (“creepily” – lol). But you keep trying it with more and more girls and soon you’re getting more and more makeouts and fewer rejections, and your confidence and calibration and subcomms automatically improve, which means your results improve and there’s a virtuous circle. But you have to start with the awkward rejections and keep taking action and practicing to break into that virtuous circle. That’s not practicing subcomms- that’s practicing the actions which will lead to good… Read more »
Her TED talk
https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialEngineering/comments/79sh25/best_ted_talk_ive_found_in_years/
@j
Oh yeah, I know about her. She’s one of those entrepreneurs building income streams on a watered down purple pill + body language lessons based on Ekman’s studies (read the original book, there’s a pdf online if you google the title I quoted above; her chapter is only 20 pages or so).
Her lessons on IODs for women:
https://youtu.be/6Q1NO3Qvcfs
IOIs:
https://youtu.be/lV2RTqrJ354
2:20 … hmm… this would explain why Blaximus plucks his eyebrows… 😉 lol…
BTW guess what else was based on Ekman’s work…
http://www.paulekman.com/lie-to-me/
@ IRL
At this point I’m not plucking eyebrows, I’m pruning antennae.
From wiki: Vanessa Van Edwards is a behavioral investigator and national best-selling author of Captivate: Use Science to Succeed with People (2017)[1]. She is also a corporate speaker and body language trainer specializing in science-based people skills.[2][3][4] She runs Science of People, a human behavior research lab in Portland, Oregon where she studies charisma, influence and power body language[5][6][7] […] Van Edwards is lead investigator at her human behavior research lab, the Science of People[10]. She conducts original research experiments on popular pyschology and communication[11]. Boys from RSD should learn from her: “Tyler and Papa are behavioral investigators and international… Read more »
“Vanessa Van Edwards”
HB5. would bang.
“HB5. would bang.”
Maybe after she did the hair flipping,neck exposing head tilt five or six times,only after coming out of a two week tour in the forest,after three beers.
“They’re all about to sneeze” … A friend told me long ago in all seriousness that a good sneeze is the closest thing to orgasm
“They’re all about to sneeze”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDpxJAlYlxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG-UruC-Yj4
Mr. Tomassi, Your analysis and declarations of “Alpha” and “Beta” males in the context of current witch hunts is superficial and arbitrary. I am referring to your commentary on current sexual assault witch hunts in Hollywood and elsewhere. You state that Alpha males will never be falsely accused of sexual assault. Only beta males will be falsely accused. George Takei and Weinstein were beta males and hence were accused. Assuming for a moment all of their sex was mutually consensual. How did you come to this conclusion? Why would Alpha males be not falsely accused of sex assault? You give… Read more »
In 2017, as you stated, “simply approaching a woman to ask her out or get a number is literally becoming a criminal act” Where are you going to say DTF in modern America without putting your job or financial security at risk? College campus? Nope. Work? Nope. Club maybe, because you could easily end up in a headlock being escorted out for ‘harassing’ women. Now, I am speaking for non-select dudes, not alpha/sigmas. The term “creep” can really lead in a bunch of different directions discussion wise, but I think a really big one is “sexual zones” vs “non-sexual zones”.… Read more »
How did you come to this conclusion? Why would Alpha males be not falsely accused of sex assault? You give anecdotal evidence of Gene Simmons and his alpha maleness without providing robust statistically significant evidence for your assertion.
LOL, GTFO with that “robust statistical significant evidence” nonsense
I do think there is a sort of female equivalent “creep”, perhaps not exactly but comparable. I’ve had some instances where really fat, ugly girls have gotten really overtly sexual in public with me, grabbing my arms or ass or something, and frankly it “creeped” me out a bit. There was a friend of my sister who sort of became a pseudo-friend of mine in that we hung out in the same crowd but she would often start drinking and then get really touchy-feely, she was probably about 50-75 pounds overweight, and yeah it felt “creepy”, more in the sense… Read more »
In sexual zones, such as the Friday night bar, your margin for error is higher.
Although if you google a phrase such as “sexual harassment bars” or “unwanted advances bars” you’ll see a lot of hits. These generally refer to things such as crotch grabbing, but I wonder if women will try to bring the overbroad definition of “street harassment” into bars and nightclubs?
Great post! Nice to take the view from women and put it on us men for a while. I’ll bet we can learn a lot about women, but we can learn a lot about male behavior and dos and don’ts as well from reading these kind of posts.
Ulysses BY ALFRED, LORD TENNYSON It little profits that an idle king, By this still hearth, among these barren crags, Match’d with an aged wife, I mete and dole Unequal laws unto a savage race, That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me. I cannot rest from travel: I will drink Life to the lees: All times I have enjoy’d Greatly, have suffer’d greatly, both with those That loved me, and alone, on shore, and when Thro’ scudding drifts the rainy Hyades Vext the dim sea: I am become a name; For always roaming with a hungry heart… Read more »
Creepiness and Emotions
1-9 – fear, disgust, contempt, anger, enjoyment, sadness… etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4sg6dQQqOs
The Legend of Bobby Peru… Calibration? Cat-O-Nese translation?
“means sumptin don’t it? means sumptin to me”
Alpha’s have very, very different reference experiences than Betas…
@ skepticalman You are totally missing the point Wrt ” alpha and beta ” men and sexual harassment and creepiness. It’s about the woman’s perception and biological triggers. Pedestalzation is beta behavior. Is it possible that you don’t fully understand how and why the ” alpha ” designator is used in context? Of course there are some women that would accuse any man of harassment for some form of attention or financial gain. But generally speaking regarding the wider population and the ” common ” man, there are definitely certain behaviors that will put a man at much more risk… Read more »
IRL “Spot the moment of her discernment.” Earl hit it. 1:33… Up until then, when he took the beta bait and proved he was a beta (his salacious smile), his autism was working for him to a surprising degree… Direct open, eye contact, handshake, breaking rapport, she qualifying, etc… Shit tests him with “i’m a stripper” he hits her with something ambiguous and judgmental… all OK to here… Not great but keeping her hamster on the fence “who is this guy?”… When he communicates his thirst with his silly “sex is naughty” grin… she makes her decision, sorts him. Beta… Read more »
Instead of grinning like an idiot with a hard micropeen…
Her: “I’m a stripper!”
Him: “Oh… FML… seems every girl I meet these days is on the pole… [lean back, eye contact] So what’s your stripper name? Persephone? Claudette? Gladys? [because it is always something stupid…like Summer or Autumn or Misty, Crystal etc… so this is a neg, and you can then bust on her stupid stripper name some more]”
Given a lot of thought about this subject since the OP dropped. Candidly speaking, according to how these things are currently being defined by the FI, I am most certainly – A) abusive, physically and somewhat emotionally. B) display harassing behaviors. C) display ” creepy ” behaviors by the physical touching of women I do not know in public situations and at times being overtly sexual in speech. There have been many occasions, mostly in the past, where initial conversation with a woman consisted of ” hello, we should fuck sometimes “. Many more times the overt sexual works it’s… Read more »
@skepticalman: ” . . . robust statistically significant evidence . . .” You are aware that the function of robust, statistically significant evidence is to arrive at a “definite maybe,” aren’t you? How do you manage to cross the street alive? You have nothing but anecdotal evidence as to the safe course of action, or, for that matter, that you are even in jeopardy. How do you suppose a fox, with no access to quantification, never mind complex mathematical operations, manages it? Am I in a Foghorn Leghorn cartoon? “In the process, you are diminishing the suffering of falsely accused… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ica5bY8FtsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jKuXvI0SAo
Fred Flange – up all night
Back to the main topic, can you approach a gal and not be arrested?
Sure. Just don’t be creepy about it…
@IRL
Pic #7 of 9 is intense interest. “Green light” in some situations.
Primo: Can you approach a gal and not be arrested?
Secundus: Sure. Just don’t be creepy about it…
Seduce them with your intention…
One of these things is not like the other:
The Australian Academy has revoked an award to Harvey Weinstein that it intended to give the now scandal hit producer
Is Kevin Spacey’s Career Over? Christopher Plummer Replaces Actor as J. Paul Getty
Louis CK’s film release scrapped amid sex allegations
Roy Moore Up 10 Points in Emerson College Poll Conducted After Washington Post Story Broke
I’m not a fan of Roy Moore for numerous reasons, and I have no fucks to give about his political career. Having stated that, he has an indisputable point when he asks ” why did these people wait 40 years ( to come out with the allegations )?”. He’s getting some support because he refuses to capitulate and automatically beg forgiveness for something he’s alleged to have done 4 decades ago. I cosign this attitude. I can’t imagine what it would be like if the media machine were to come after me for some of the truly dumb shit I’ve… Read more »
Roy Moore Up 10 Points in Emerson College Poll Conducted After Washington Post Story Broke
women all wanna date him…just like trump
Perception is reality regardless of facts.If female sees you as creepy you will remain creepy until her perception of you changes. I think creepiness is not just anti hypergamy but also anti comfort. Creepy is anti AF or BB.creepiness is crossing boundaries that are set in a females mind. The boundaries could be touching physically or verbal Or even fashion.
I can’t imagine what it would be like if the media machine were to come after me for some of the truly dumb shit I’ve done in my teens.
especially not what you did in texas with that 15 yo…
“It seems that the worse thing one could do is offer a mea culpa apology.”
Apology is confession. Confession is followed by conviction and sentencing.
Keith
Perception is reality regardless of facts.If female sees you as creepy you will remain creepy until her perception of you changes.
Ok. So what factors influence her perception of you? Put it another way, what affects her feelze?
@ ASD Lol. Oddly enough, I’ve practically exclusively targeted ‘ older ‘ girls when I was in my youth. As a freshmen in high school I went after the junior and senior class. Freshman and sophmore college chicks that lived in dorms. The exceptions were the female athletes, the tennis and track chicks specifically. Softball chicks were kinda big, lol. I’ve had only one young virgin in my life ( and even she was a year older that I was ) and I was a virgin at the time myself. It wasn’t the greatest initial sex. To this day I… Read more »
Blaximus I can’t imagine what it would be like if the media machine were to come after me for some of the truly dumb shit I’ve done in my teens. Thanks to Al Gore’s interwebs today’s teens dumbassery is preserved for a long, long time. Although a lot of them don’t get that. College students are amazed to find out their social media pix of foam cannon parties will be of interest to MegaCorp recruiters a couple of years down the road, too. Another aspect of the social world being online: a girl herd can brand a man “creepy” and… Read more »
Anonymous Reader her personal preference will determine her feeling. Ok say your out hunting kill a decent buck deer you want to show it off too your friends. So off to the bar you go you show ip in camo with mud on your boots and little blood on pants. Everyone else in the bar is dressed normally. Your talking and having a good time with your friends . Subconsciously every woman in the bar knows your peacocking a little and they don’t mind you getting some attention. Then theirs that one chick at the bar who is creeped out.… Read more »
“I don’t want excitement. I want satisfaction.”
So do I. Sadly women don’t.
Great article Rollo as usual. A “creep” these days is simply a guy that women don’t find attractive and that keeps trying to flirt with them.
Her perceptions don’t change my reality nor my actions. Ever.
Then there’s that one chick at the bar who is creeped out. Your a animal killer and she is with peta or works for the local zoo or whatever. She is thinks your a creep nothing you can do is gonna change her feels. It’s not a shit test its organic. Her pre conceived world view is not gonna change. Your a creepy guy any change you try to make to appease her is seen as weakness. So then you become creepy and weak. And then targeting of you becomes a option. YGFBSM! That’s the most gosh darned stupidest thing… Read more »
Keith
Anonymous Reader her personal preference will determine her feeling.
What affects her personal preference? What could make a vegan girl decide she liked venison?
https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/
Sorry for going off topic but I couldn’t help but think of what I have read here on your blog Rollo!
A textbook case of alpha fuck/beta buck today in the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/13/my-partner-says-she-loves-me-but-sex-is-not-her-prority?CMP=fb_gu
This is literally what I was posting about a couple of weeks ago. There is no guaranteed safe path but in general the men who hold the line and refuse to apologise against this kind of allegation and possibly deny them (whether they are true is a different issue) consistently do better. Trump is the poster boy tor this approach (there was literally a NYT story in the last few weeks where the headline was “11 women have accused Trump of sexual assault – why does no one care?” Roy Moore now doing better than expected with the same approach.… Read more »
Orso, that is the classic “Alpha Widow” situation. It is as you note her BetaBux man that is complaining, and his problem is that he’s not alpha enough for her. In addition to his own misery, if they generate a child it’s very likely she’ll frivorce him when the child is 3 to 5 years old. Which will do a number on the child. Who will then grow up to be either another frustrated Beta man or another BPD woman. Nothing wrong per se with a man marrying a woman with a high N, as long as he knows what… Read more »
I’m just saying a creep is threat. She thinks your a danger to her and the sister hood. It’s not a war brides thing or a DHV thing. It’s not a friend zone thing. It’s a creepy threat. Hell its worse than stranger danger. Threats will be removed, marginalized , obfuscated. It will be destroyed. The female will gladly sacrifice bata friend zone guys to you and him fight it out situations. She will rip apart social clubs , tribes , clans & brotherhoods to remove a creepy threat. You can know 200 females across the socioeconomic spectrum and somewhere… Read more »
” You can know 200 females across the socioeconomic spectrum and somewhere one of them thinks your a creep.”
… I’m sure more than 0ne of them think I’m some kind of creep, lol. I’m a huge fan of Majority Rule myself.
Keith
I’m just saying a creep is threat. She thinks your a danger to her and the sister hood. It’s not a war brides thing or a DHV thing
What you are saying is that you do not understand women, and therefore you fear them.
You aren’t thinking, you are reacting emotionally. Probably you are stuck in equalism / blank slateism so you are looking at women as “men with boobs”.
Stop emoting. Stop fearing. Calm down. Start thinking. Begin with these two basic aphorisms:
“Cats are not dogs” – Sentient
“They are all girls” – Blaximus.
Breath.
Keith You can know 200 females across the socioeconomic spectrum and somewhere one of them thinks your a creep. Assume this to be true. What to do about it? A. Staunch self-defense, of the “I’m not a creep! Not me!” type, common among Beta men. B. Staunch defense by other girls of the “No way! Keith isn’t a creeper, he’s cool! What’s wrong with you, girl?” type. Social proof at work. An Alpha’s girl-posse will do this. Of the two options, which is more likely to work? There’s also this: C. ZFG of the “Meh, she’s just jealous of all… Read more »
Mr. Tomassi, Your analysis and declarations of “Alpha” and “Beta” males in the context of current witch hunts is superficial and arbitrary. You are either a lazy hater who knows better, or you’re a newcomer to this blog because if you were at all familiar with my work you’d already know that there are over 6 years of essays and 3 books I’ve written that VERY specifically define what my classifications of Alpha and Beta entail. Take the time to educate yourself before you decide to attack me, your strawman arguments will suffer if you don’t. I am referring to… Read more »
I’m trying to come up with some real life examples of my being called a ” creep ” in the past, and what I was doing/thinking when the name was called in my direction, and I just remembered something that I gotta share with y’all because it’s funny and kind of illustrative. I had a fuck-buddy for about 12 months or so at one time. Cute chick, quiet and reserved for the most part, highly submissive. She snapped at me one day because I walked past her as she was sitting at my kitchen table and grabbed her head playfully… Read more »
@ rugby11 “….“creep” is a response to women coming too close to their own truth. they want to be stalked, seduced and fucked into submission by the best hunters….” And “…how can anyone get bored in a world with so many variables??” How? Well rugby11….. When it becomes illegal to hunt, when the real hunters can no longer hunt because the quarry makes all the hunting rules, that’s how. Consider these… “LADY Justice” and “LADY Liberty”… What relevance do real justice and real liberty have to gender? If none, then why are these effigies female? Why wouldn’t they be male?… Read more »
Created equal. Check out a few dozen autopsies.
It’s what one does after he’s ” created ” that counts and possible sets one man apart and above some others.
But, yeah, all me created equal sounds about right.
I hereby apologize to all the girls I didn’t grope when they wanted me to.
@Rollo: re: Gene Simmons–maybe the context of the women’s perception of Alpha lends verity to the line “Musick has Charms to sooth a savage Breast”.
And for all the newbs out there, a protip: The statue of liberty is just that – A Statue – given to America by the French people, designed by the dude that designed the Eiffel tower. It was dedicated in 1886 ( our forefathers had no clue…). There’s a smaller scale version still in France as well. Now, you can be upset and pissed and angry if that’s your preference, or you can gain knowledge and understanding and leave all of that useless anger somewhere else, and go forth in your life knowing what’s real and what’s false. The choice… Read more »
@Not Born This Morning: Very succinct paragraphs. In thinking about it, I’d assumed the figures were feminine as that is the sex that bears after being quickened by a male.
It’s a good set of images to ponder on.
” . . . designed by the dude that designed the Eiffel tower.”
Built by. Designed by the guy who designed the statue of Lafayette in Union Square, also a gift from the French. They liked to remind us that we owed them our revolutionary victory. The Statue of Liberty faces France.
@Sentient ”[…]his autism was working for him to a surprising degree… ” Oh shit, yes. I mistook the change in his expression at 1:09 for a sound of Beta mind brakes (obviously the scene was written to have him fail the shit test). I just re-watched that part and you’re right, the whole thing is going to collapse after her statement, but he somehow wings it for a few more seconds… lol… The silly grin starts showing only later. Nice one. “Alpha’s have very, very different reference experiences than Betas…” Flip enough attraction switches, do it fast and calibration seems… Read more »
IRL “The grand scheme of things, broader perspective. ” Indeed. That’s why I like this stuff… Peeling back eons of obfuscation to the raw biology. Either evopsych/bio is right ot it’s not. On the Plains of Ur, Krull the Warrior King had his own form of consistency… Channelled via Bobby Peru a few millennia later. But both work right? I see War Brides has already been cited. Worth reading over and over though. Biology. Can’t escape it in the long run. When in doubt push more Alpha. Look at your FR (i lolled)… You sexually harassed a wife’s co worker… Read more »
Illustration of my point…
Or Blax’s story… Lol.
Or the cover of Rollo’s next book.
http://art.cafimg.com/images/Category_45015/subcat_92145/DSC08213.JPG
“Still, don’t jerk off into plants.” unless you want to. and if that plant is located in a nice profitable restaurant in which you happen to be a primary investor…. all the better. I’ve always liked to make a mess. to be able to pull out and hit a girl in the face from 2+ feet away…. makes a man feel good I make messes outside too. why would my wife suck a load out of me, watch me shoot it on a rock and then take a picture of it? because I’m a fucking animal. pissing and shitting and… Read more »
Anonymous Reader I’m not talking about all woman kind. I’m talking about that 0.01 percent or less than that. just like situation story I told about going to a bar with dead buck. You may got like maybe 10 or 15 females in the bar that cool with it and one thinks it’s creepy. You can’t change your whole game for one. But that one is out to destroy you if she can.
“But that one is out to destroy you if she can.”
So fucking what? Is your point?
Are you scared of your own shadow too?
@Sentient
“Spot the moment of her discernment.”
At around :49 he starts pushing the mp3 as the right way to promote the band,:54 she gives a sideways glance ,saying we already thought of that. First moment of discernment,to persistent with advice,disrespect.
Next at 1:10 you don’t look like a stripper,his change in expression goes to judgmental. She calls him on it ,what do strippers look like? and packs her purse at 1:20.
I can’t believe you missed all that Studly.
With all this talk about reading facial expressions and subcomms, there is an entertaining YouTube channel called Bombards Body Language. I had been watching it for awhile now this past month or two. Great entertainment. She’s a non-academic body and face reader with somewhat of an agenda. She takes latest And then Krauser mentioned it in a post: https://krauserpua.com/2017/10/18/reading-body-language-of-girls/ Krauser: I’ve found a fantastic YouTube channel that uploads dozens of interviews and speeches from the news and then analyses the speaker for tells of honesty and deception. I’ve watched little else these past few evenings and I’d like to pass… Read more »
Orso — great post, classic example (both the Q and the A)
“Talk to her about her feelings, and share yours, without blame.” Who the heck is this advisor? That’s like getting out on the ledge with the crazy person. Talking to women about their feelings immediately grants them the home-field advantage, and the field is made of quicksand,
Stuff I don’t think so. Look at the frame. He breaks rapport during this and she then qualifies in what she is doing. Onnthe judgmental expression.. Exactly. She is the one judged and she falls right into it. Those kinds of ambiguous cold reads are money because they spin up the hamster “what does a stripper look like?!” Lol. It’s the perfect double bind neg. Too ugly? Too prim? Etc… I am a strippet dammit and that’s the source of power in my shit test… And this sperg says i don’t look like one! And i start to qualify to… Read more »
“Look at it from a cat’s pov not a beta…”
She is the cat looking at a beta the whole time.
She was always out of his league, with more IOI’s and orbiters as a stripper,she is sick of this shit and he flailed all the way. Get real dude.
Boulderhead
Nah… He was still viable till the leer. Hence her falling into the frame he set and qualifying.
To a stripper question her boner fides is a nuclear neg.
@O.B.I.T. and Orso Classic. The comments on that article were also classic including some from women that have ridden the cock carousel and then told about their feelings about future sex partners. Some of which were tells for men. Seeking communication is just a checkers or chess or poker player move to see your cards, your intent and your future moves. It is a gambit and a ploy for her. This does not mean that a man shouldn’t communicate with her/ cannot communicate with her/ or doesn’t want to communicate with her. Just not on her terms exclusively or on… Read more »
“To a stripper question her boner fides is a nuclear neg.”
In the beginning of the interaction she hides that she is a stripper, it is only after this first moment of discernment 0:54 that she no longer cares what he thinks and reveals this. This chick didn’t need a neg. She was pre negging herself.
Keith
Anonymous Reader I’m not talking about all woman kind. I’m talking about that 0.01 percent or less than that.
You keep moving the goalposts around over and over. That’s dumb. You really need to read more of this site. Right now you are commenting from a position of fear and lack of knowledge.
SJF
Many thanks, think I’ve already seen that passage on TRM but it bears constant repeating.
Actually the very phrase “talking to a woman about her feelings” is bass-ackwards, as you will not be the one doing the talking. Do not get dragged or subtly led into this “talk,” with or without a third-party ref.
See Mark Twain’s advice on wrestling with a pig (you’ll only get all muddy and the pig enjoys it) or arguing with a fool (passersby won’t be able to tell the difference).
PS I do not mean to say be inconsiderate or ignorant of her feelings — by all means have some idea what’s going on between her ears as well as other central distribution points. If she starts revealing her feelings listen respectfully and take good notes. But do not get led into the tar-pit of a back-and-forth discussion where anything you say can and will be used against you. Your own feelings, frustrations and interpretations — even whatever concessions you ill-advisedly might make — are like 5-Hour Energy Drink for her hamster. Only it might last five months or five… Read more »
Freezer does well with his chicken coop analogy
They want to the fox to have his untamed and visceral way. But the one who simply peers in…
As another poster brilliantly pointed out it’s very easy for us to flex our wisdom and deride creeps but many if us grew up as them.
I think part of my creepiness was expecting to be met halfway. I thought we were equals. But no I was playing the sexist lead and no one told me.
As I’m sure has been alluded to above it’s also an uncomfortable fact that the higher your opinion of women – the creepier you come across.
And unfortunately vice versa – which is why the genuine creeps, societal scumbags, are often at least initially considered attractive by women.
Not born this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0 ““LADY Justice” and “LADY Liberty”… What relevance do real justice and real liberty have to gender? If none, then why are these effigies female? Why wouldn’t they be male? If they, or one of them, COULD have been male, then why are neither? By just accidental random pure coincidence? I think not, because I am not a fool. Consider real conditions and the direction of “culture” and “progress”. If gender doesn’t matter, concerning how the orchestrators expect us to perceive liberty and justice, then why would either gender be included or excluded in these effigies?… Read more »
Sometimes I wonder if concentration of capital is a causal factor in Hypergamy. 50s to late 70s U.S. saw an unprecedented combination of high employment, growth, unionization and income equality. Once inflation inevitably set in and strong, there was a trend reversal with trickle-down Reagonomics in the 80s to the present and ongoing: https://medium.com/@Santafebound/is-there-a-theory-of-everything-for-monetary-and-fiscal-policy-7e1f76fb36a4 That trend reversal was probably the correct move, but then went overboard. Norms about work ethic and compensation tend to change as we alternate between Neo-Keynesian (low interest, more-regulated, moderate inflation) and Austrian (high interest, less-regulated, deflationary) economic regimes: https://editorialexpress.com/cgi-bin/conference/download.cgi?db_name=SBE37&paper_id=28 This may explain why “masculine men”… Read more »
Addendum to the above, a flatter social status hierarchy likely means fewer “perceived-to-be” creeps in a population of prospective mates. I’m not saying we should aspire to such a world (it speaks to a somewhat stifling personal growth mindset), but it’s something to consider.
@Martin Erlić I sense you are trying to alleviate cognitive dissonance in your pursuit of Selonomics. (me perusing your blog). If you want to talk about maximizing your value by producing less or wanting to produce less in a Society, a top down analysis of economics is practically useless. One of the essences of The Rational Male is that it espouses a bottoms up approach to Awareness and self actualizing. In other words, you can’t complain about the village, or society, or city or state or country in which you voluntary place yourself. It is up to you to develop… Read more »
Hi guys,
I’ve been lurking here and there but not really able to keep up with comments. Just a quick update: It’s been going really well with my wife; the nuclear option combined with her realizing that I was fully willing to send her home, as well as a needed shift in my MPO has done wonders. She is a RP natural and easy to work with. She got her employment authorization and SS# about 3 weeks ago. (update that spreadsheet Sentient?)
Also, here’s a little ray of sunshine to brighten your day. It is really delicious.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/amp/news/fired-dallas-county-da-slimes-uber-driver-she-drunkenly-abused-10072539
@SJF I don’t quite agree. I” concede that positive delusions can sometimes be functional. As a door-to-door salesman I began selling more when I began to pitch with more conviction (which came easier after knocking 2000 doors). Nothing about how bad the product actually was for customers had changed. The fact is that “most people think they can be above average,” which is a mathematical fallacy. All TRP, PUA is fundamentally non-linear. We’re all looking for profits at the margins of temporary disequilibria (see Contrary Game). In a positional world, improving your status necessarily means that others do worse. When… Read more »
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