Novaseeker had an excellent breakdown of how Hypergamy has developed and is radically altering a long established social order in favor of one centered on the female sexual strategy. This was timely for a post I was working on, so rather than allow it to be buried in the last thread I thought I’d riff on it a bit here:
So in my head, I tried to think of what the best response to hidden estrus would be from a male perspective, and the only thing I could think of was essentially hiding male horniness, I used the word stoicism. The only way to balance the effects of hidden estrus is for all men to simply appear to not want what a women are offering, to appear uninvested, uninterested, etc.., because this again gives the perception of a lack of abundance to the women and re-balances things. Eventually such behavior would become selected for to some degree, and male emotions would become less prominent.
I agree with what you are saying, although I think it’s important to bear in mind that the expression of female sexuality historically was quite restricted, once we were at a level of more complex social organization beyond the rather small. Things did vary by community and culture somewhat, but once things reached that level of social advance, in most places a woman’s family/kin had a huge control over the expression of her sexuality, with the parents (largely the father) and to a lesser extent her male brothers exerting substantial restrictive pressure on the expression of her sexuality.
I should note here that while there is a definite social structure built around various strategies of mate guarding, these social mores and familial repression of women’s Hypergamous impulses does, in fact, stem from evolved, behavioral adaptations.
Kin Affiliation Across the Ovulatory Cycle : Females Avoid Fathers When Fertile Consider that girls will make subconscious efforts to avoid their fathers during the proliferative phase of their ovulatory cycle. Also, consider girls enter puberty at an earlier age when their fathers are not present in the family. Both of these are examples of phenomena that have a physical manifestation and a latent evolutionary purpose, but socially we build moral/social frameworks around buffering for (or sometimes accommodating) them.
Likewise, there are social controls that span all cultures that have the same purpose of buffering against the predations and mechanics of women’s Hypergamous natures. The most stringent of these might be repressing of women’s sexuality, but the latent purpose is still the same; controlling for paternity assurances.
There was, of course, cheating of the system that took place in terms of women bucking the system covertly, but most women were not sexual free agents in most places most of the time historically, and so were not acting on their estrus, concealed or otherwise at these later points in history. It does seem like something which likely occurred prior to the time we developed significant social organization (which is unclear when it precisely happened, but likely happened gradually quite some time before the development of large-scale agriculture), and is inherited from that earlier time, while the later social structures mostly, or at least in many cases, served to rather severely hem in the expression of female sexuality and free sexual choice to a large degree.
The Feminine Imperative that exists today still uses these historically extreme controls as a baseline for provoking an emotional response among women (and feminized men) today. In spite of the realities of Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckoldry, and paired with the fact that we live in the most sexually permissive society the world has largely known to this point, there is still a necessity to sell a narrative of sexual repression in order to perpetuate a social condition of ‘victimization’ among women and thus perpetuate a status of concern and primary importance.
So I guess my perspective is not that what you are suggesting is incorrect, in terms of the deeper evolutionary inheritance, but that the response of men to this eventually evolved, socially, into the use of social/legal/moral structures that acted as a counterweight to the inter-sexual issues raised by concealed estrus, and that, being social animals, this was itself also a powerfully selected thing (tribes that did not adopt similar restrictive measures did not generally survive except in relatively isolated areas where they were not exposed to the same degree of competition with patriarchal tribes and their sexually restrictive cultures). I suspect it dawned on the males in some tribal groups that the gains to be had from a kind of system of “one girl for (almost) every guy (who isn’t killed in war, or banished or enslaved)” when it came to women, in terms of reducing sex-related conflict among men, became more important when the scale/size of social organization grew beyond the small and moved to a larger, more complex scale, where different structures were needed to ensure cooperation and alleviate conflict which could undermine that cooperation and the scale made possible by it. So in other words, the strategy that men adopted had to do with the needs of the social order and the need for greater cooperation and less conflict once the scale grew to the point where close kinship among the males could no longer feasibly serve as a conflict-reducer effectively.
This was done, of course, at the direct expense of the female sexual strategy, and females have been scratching and clawing against that result in various ways ever since that time, but really have only recently had the success of overturning pretty much all aspects of that restrictive system (while retaining selective elements of it in form, mostly, as it serves their own interests) with the collaboration of most men, by the way, in the process (for various reasons, many of which Rollo has detailed in various posts on this blog). The resulting system is therefore new, and requires men to adapt, which is what we are about doing here, of course. The idea is to have a system which is of a large scale and complexity, socially, and which requires high levels of cooperation in order to function, while at the same time removing the last vestiges of of the “one girl for (almost) every guy” sexual system and replacing it with the freest, most open and adversarial system of sexual competition among males that our species has likely seen since long before the time we evolved into socially-based human groups.
I’ve covered most of the male adaptiveness that Nova mentions here in the Adaptation series of posts. For the short version, however, it’s important to note that even the sexual restrictiveness of women in prior eras were themselves adaptations meant to buffer against women’s conflicting sexual strategy. As I stated in the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies, for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other must either be compromised or abandoned. Prior sexual restrictiveness was a repression meant to force women to abandon and later (in monogamy) compromise their own Hypergamy (Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks).
It remains to be seen how feasible this is, longer term, because it is still so new. And the adaptation required by men is substantial, because the change is gargantuan from anything we have experienced in thousands upon thousands of years, in terms of sexual system and related mores. I think relatively few will adapt, and the majority of men will fail at the system, in terms of actually getting what they want. I don’t mean most guys will be incel all their lives, but that their relationships with women will be extremely skewed to the women’s terms, through a combination of outright duping, indoctrination into wishful thinking, and a steady move towards ever more libertine sexual morality for women as a part of the further expression of the Feminine Imperative.
And that comes back to the concealed estrus issue, because the social solution that men in certain groups came up with a long, long time ago (substantial restrictions on female sexual expression) is now pretty much completely removed in this culture, meaning that it is playing a bigger role in human inter-sexual relations than it has been permitted to play in a long time. In fact, the development of reproductive technologies and the related legal regime supporting their free use has augmented the ability of women to utilize this aspect of themselves to tilt the field in their favor, well beyond what nature provided them, in terms of controlling who among the men gets to breed. Again, most men will not be able to adapt quickly enough and will be in lopsided relationships as a result. Other men, like us, are able to adapt and thrive under the new system as individuals, knowing full well we can’t really overthrow something like the sea change in sexual system that we have seen occur, even if we thought that was wise, which it may very well not be. Every man, once he comes to this realization, therefore has a choice to make, really, and a fairly stark one. Most guys have no chance, however, because they are totally subsumed by the feminine primary and never come to a realization of things as they are, and just what the heck happened in the culture, sexually, over the last 100 years or so.
Although my last post may have been on the melodramatic side, the exaggeration is still founded on the same dynamic Nova is getting at here. Since the time of the sexual revolution there has been a complete social abdication on the part of men to have any say in exercising, much less advocating for, prioritizing their own interests in the sexual strategies equation.
It’s gotten to the point that even men’s initiating an approach at the most marginal form of intimacy runs the risk of not just rejection, but legal and social punishments for even taking it upon himself. The onus of sexual selection, as per every legal mandate, is unilaterally placed upon the part of women. The latent purpose of this is to prioritize women’s sexuality and women’s sexual strategy (Hypergamy) above men’s – all while clinging to the pretense of the sexual repressions that they believe still characterize the condition of women.
If you ever wonder at the declining marriage rates, the delaying of marriage until well past women’s prime fertility years, male suicide rates being four times that of women or the rise of men who’ve contented themselves in being single for their lives look no further than this reprioritization of women’s Hypergamy as the socially predominant sexual strategy.
[…]
I would say that attempts at overt male control of covert female sexuality oftentimes amount to window dressing that only serve to help convince the men of their paternity, even when they’ve no reason to be assured of it. Only in cultures like those established by strict Islamic doctrine/Sharia Law can paternity be (mostly) assured by social forces. Outside of that, women can oftentimes have free reign at getting away with good old-fashioned cuckoldry.
In a social order founded on Hypergamy, that dynamic demands that men’s utterly abdicate their sexual and biological imperatives to women. This means any paternity assurances, or even the idea that they should matter to a man, must be surrendered to the point that they are literally conditioned and bred out of the consciousnesses of men.
I’m hitting upon this in the hopes of prompting some discussion about the aspects of Hypergamy Novaseeker mentions here, but also because I will be discussing much of this with Alan Roger Currie this coming Thursday night on his podcast.
We’ll be talking at 10pm EST/7pm PST and this will be a live call-in format, so if you’d like to participate I’d encourage you to do so. While my appearance is not necessarily an endorsement of Mode One or anything else Currie is selling, I respect him as a thoughtful interviewer and he’s been asking me to appear for some time now.
Lol. Yeah if I recall correctly, he considers “I thought you were cute and had to come talk to you” as indirect since you’re saying you want to “talk” instead of saying that you want to fuck.
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ff/ffe983c42a0e7ead07d94f8ec61ddffe85f47c3db918a76173782c9a14f6d701.jpg
DAMN….
I meant
http://www.jagengrg.com/uploads/1/3/1/7/13178941/5848128_orig.jpg
Rollo
Unfortunately he said it’s only reliably killed squirrels for him at close range, so I guess it’s kind of useless,…
But now you can whack mice like a boss! It’s all good!
Forge
Yes. Do things, don’t stop things. Most people get the order wrong.
In fact, Biology of Desire could be summed up in almost that way:
Do something else, don’t just stop doing [bad thing].
I know a sports psych girl, I’ll run that by her to see what she says in terms of sport performance.
Blaximus, those half-seasons are the definitely the worst…
“According to The Game even Mystery, with all his PUA prowess, degenerates into a simpering, borderline suicidal chump when he realizes that his PUA scripts do nothing in an LTR with Katya (his ONEitis)” you can be the most MM-aware motherfucker out there….sooner or later you will fuck up and look like a moron for a minute. guys who talk or speak as if it is otherwise are just dudes who a) play it safe or b) don’t have much, if any, experience. FURTHER…. a lot of those mistakes are just the result of people not taking the game FAR… Read more »
Alright, Rollo has posted to me and i’ve just been lurking so I’m going to respond to him. Right so, heres how this went down. I said be careful about using MM – theres another point of view. I quoted someone else. Not my view, this guys view, and heres the link. The next response I said my own take on it – that IME (in my experience this means, Ya, really. Also note taking my own experience it isn’t possible for me to be wrong about.) MM seemed to work BETTER on bipolar type chicks (but it worked on… Read more »
@jin “Basically most of you guys failed reading comprehension 101 and then expected me to respond to the failed reading” eh well what you did looks an awful lot like a concern troll… you made a statement ‘BEWARE there’s a LITTLE TWIST, WATCH OUT GUYZ’ followed it up with an ALL OUT ASSAULT ON MM that MAKES VERY STRONG CLAIMS AGAINST IT and then you just tried to distance yourself from your source material. but if we take you at your word, then what you were saying was essentially nothing — hey, MM works on NORMAL GIRLS but hey maybe… Read more »
If a guy is competent at giving off a ” vibe “, chicks will pay attention. They may not act, but they will sense. Absolutely the Indirect approach works and I’d bet that the ” subcomms ” ( I had no idea what these were until recently…Thanx Ya, Scray, Sentient..) are indeed learnable and that they work. Once ( at bandcamp..) at a workplace, there was a very, very cute secretary that I spoke with a few times a day. I never said anything that could/would be construed as sexual, but I wanted to fuck her in the worst way.… Read more »
Ya and scray, An observation. You guys seem awfully invested in defending MM/Mystery in your exchanges with Jin. scray softened a little with ” first of all, he’s just a human being (commentaries like Raw’s just put him up on a pedestal without even realizing it), and second of all, his failures are like….a bajillion times more legit than the AFC’s highest successes, so w/e.” Is Mystery some kind of pua God or something? I’m not trying to be funny, I’m just asking because I don’t think I’ve ever seen you 2 get so heated over a difference of opinion… Read more »
@Scray “monogamy itself is just like level 99 hardcore insane mode…..” Lol, my SJF Maxim #4 is Don’t Fuck Up. And I haven’t much. I’ve been doing monogamous LTR game for 27 years. When I met my wife she was a HB 8+ with Self Esteem 8 at the time. When I reflect back to when I met her originally I would admit to her being out of my league. But that didn’t stop me from acting casual and within my skill set (you could call it luck but I call it skill, I just dreamed up my own game… Read more »
@blax
“You guys seem awfully invested in defending MM/Mystery in your exchanges with Jin.”
just because there are destructive tropes in the manosphere that are dumb and get repeated a lot and drive people down the wrong path
one of them is ‘that MM stuff only works on dumb bar sluts!’
I liked what Jin originally posted and then the pissing match started. And then Jin really kinda went off track with that Ricky Rawness stuff. It is kind of laughable how Rawness had issues with the book 48 Laws of power after he Rick Raw matured. Lol.
I don’t get the downside message of the intelligent men get less pussy. It sounded legit to me. And you won’t find me whining about it. And definitely intelligence is an asset to Game. That’s not even close to an ego hit.
Like Liberalism, generally, anyone who fights against female hypergamy is essentially running up downward escalators because feminists and liberals OWN the public schools (and higher education, church, PTAs, you name it).
So until that giant mushroom cloud comes, there will ALWAYS be blue-pill manginas, neckbeards and white knightedry, even if those “men” don’t procreate and pass off their weak genes. A new crop of properly socialized boys is ready to prepare the glass slippers for their little princesses–once she dismounts from the foam cannon party cock.
@ scray
Okay, I wasn’t aware that MM has been attacked so consistently. All I know about Game, as it’s dissected and discussed, is what I read here and what I’ve read in the past on a few ( lesser…lol ) sites.
I get that MM helps people in need, and from the comments here that notion is highly seconded.
I thought Jin had interesting perspective, but I don’t know enough about MM to really give it a lot of thought.
I get what your saying though.
“Do something else, don’t just stop doing [bad thing].”
What I say is that when you get something right, do that some more.
Same idea, but emphasises focusing on the good things. The bad things then slink off into a corner to sulk by themselves.
“I’m sure kfg will take it.”
Gee, I don’t know. I suppose I could put with taking it as a civic duty, just to keep it from falling into the wrong hands you understand.
@ SJF ” I don’t get the downside message of the intelligent men get less pussy. It sounded legit to me. And you won’t find me whining about it. And definitely intelligence is an asset to Game. That’s not even close to an ego hit.” I followed what Jin was getting at mostly, but a lot of what he said just doesn’t jive with my life experience, so I shrugged. I am a huge fan of reading. You can learn some amazing stuff from books and studies and theories. But the obsession over categorizing and ranking and rating seems to,… Read more »
“Do something else, don’t just stop doing [bad thing].” kfg What I say is that when you get something right, do that some more. That’s a logical second step. To me, it’s like dealing with bleeding: first stop the bleeding, then see what needs doing next. Or: Let’s say someone is beating their hand with a mallet. Saying “Stop pounding stuff with the mallet!” runs into resistance, saying “Pound this tree stump with the mallet” has less resistance. More fun. Hurts less. Later on suggestions like “put down the mallet so we can bandage your hand” can come into play.… Read more »
@Wild Man I just have to get this out of the way. Sure I want to play nice and advance the conversation. I’m not intellectually lazy by any stretch. And I posted that link because it is precisely not being judgmental that will get society in trouble. Yes I’m judgy. I was reading a book: Conversation Tactics: Strategies to Confront, Challenge, and Resolve (Book 2) – Difficult Conversations Made Painless (Conversation Tactics for Better Relationships) by Patrick King It talks about having difficult conversations with others. Perhaps you can learn something from this chapter on actually going somewhere with your… Read more »
I’m finding intelligence to be as big a hindrance as it is an advantage with Game. Actually early on it’s far more hindrance than help if it’s coupled with an abusive upbringing and clinical manic depression as it is in my case. 99% of my childhood was people pointing out flaw after flaw after flaw after flaw in me, making me acutely aware only of what I’m doing wrong. What I did right was completely ignored because it was assumed I should just be awesome at everything because I’m smart. No credit given for it, because it’s just a given… Read more »
Side note: the dude that tried to escalate physically the other night with me is really lucky as I was in a bad mood that day due to a couple blowouts and the ensuing frustration. I held myself in check, but I really just wanted to beat him to a pulp to work out the rage I’m feeling at myself lately for my constant failures.
Blax Check out some of the vids i posted on this thread… Mystery was the first guy to break down attraction into REPLICABLE stages, by observing how vrry hot girls acted and backwards engineering it. Once you really take any time at all to inderstand what MM actually is, it’s impossible to unsee it in the field. In fact the test is if a guy is BSing about MM he is showing either her never looked into it much or never is infield. It’s that obvi. Check it out. Then roll back some of your bangs and you will be… Read more »
Heres an analogy I think works.
Mystery is to Seduction as Charles Darwin is to Evolution
Cluster-B is to Mystery Method as a Bird shitting on your head is to Darwinism
@Anonymous Reader In fact, Biology of Desire could be summed up in almost that way: Do something else, don’t just stop doing [bad thing]. I know a sports psych girl, I’ll run that by her to see what she says in terms of sport performance. I don’t think the Biology of Desire neuroplasticity and addiction metaphor is that analogous to sports performance. In sports the thing to do is practice and develop a skill (sure with mental neuroplasticity, but also physical muscle memory). With addiction it is more solely concentrated on eliminating a bad behavior by work-arounds–doing multiple other things.… Read more »
@ Sun Without getting all ghey and what-not, I appreciate what you share. I feel what you share. Oh, and about the dude that was trying to become a stain on the floor? Remember that, as corny and played out as it sounds, it takes strength of mind not to take advantage of a situation for short term gain. Guys on Wall Street will never figure that out. Imo, there are different levels of ” intelligence ” ( and no, I don’t have a chart..lol ). Maybe I mean different ” types “. You display an overall intelligence, which to… Read more »
@SJF In sports performance, the trick is to develop your skill, then when you are performing that sport, turn off your cognitive brain and be in the zone. Turn your fore-brain off and just let it rip. It’s definitely like this in sports and martial arts. I know that when I start a new drill, one of the first things I note is how much my brain “gets in the way”. Mastery comes when you no longer have to make the muscle motions deliberately/methodically and can focus instead on what you want to accomplish instead of thinking about the how.… Read more »
@Sun Wukong Perhaps use your cognitive brain to learn game esp. MM before going out into the field. When out in the field turn your fucking forebrain-cognitive functions off and just be in the moment without thinking and analyzing. Then afterwords make a mental or physical field report and turn your for-brain back on. Standing on a golf tee and thinking too much about hitting the ball with a driver doesn’t work as well as pre-shot routine (to get the fore-brain distracted with a simple routine), former practice, free the mind, think of an objective spot the ball is to… Read more »
@ Sentient
Aight, I’m going to check out the vid. But if Tyler shows up, I’m OUT!!!!
So yeah, it gets back to Mastery. And putting 10,000 hours in to be elite. But it is not an absolute or binary success thing. It can be relatively better in an upward trend with higher highs and lower lows until you reach real mastery.
Hey Jin, I advise against the rage-quit. We were having a good convo about society and genetics before SHTF.
Your point re: mediaeval workloads was good. I think the assumption that our current society is the best to yet exist is questionable (not in the sense that I think it’s wrong, just that I don’t know). There seems to be a degree of civilization somewhat greater than grass huts and somewhat less than industrialized/urban that creates greater community and lesser workloads than our current one. With disadvantages of course – loss of individual agency, lesser security….
@SJF
That’s the problem I’m having. If I don’t think in the field, then I fall in to old JBY routines and shit comes out of my mouth that tanks an approach. If I do think, I stumble and look incongruent. Really really frustrating, particularly when you’re out solo and have to pump your own state to try again. A few good stumbles and I just find myself asking when I can go home.
I don’t think the Biology of Desire neuroplasticity and addiction metaphor is that analogous to sports performance. In sports the thing to do is practice and develop a skill (sure with mental neuroplasticity, but also physical muscle memory). Good thing that no athletes ever develop any bad habits, poor form, or other errors that need to be corrected, I guess. With addiction it is more solely concentrated on eliminating a bad behavior by work-arounds–doing multiple other things. RIght. In sports performance, the trick is to develop your skill, then when you are performing that sport, turn off your cognitive brain… Read more »
@Blaximus “My sis said something similar to what you stated to me once. She said all of the talk about being smart means that no one wants to ever help you. That you feel weirdly alone a lot of times. And what everyone sees as a fortunate blessing is most often a curse. She devised what I call ” normal ” Game, I guess. She kinda adapted her personality to blend in with the humans…er…I mean common folk ( I used to call her Klaatu…)” Law #38 of 48….. Think as you like but Behave like others. If you make… Read more »
Blax
http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/T/Th/The_Mystery_Method_The_Venusian_Arts_Handbook.pdf
Blax I’ll add, not sure if this is an actual copy of the book or derivative. I’ve focused on the videos myself, there are 6 or 7 posted online, in order… This should be of interest though considering the upthread convo: Bruce Lee was a legendary martial artist. Yet his life’s accomplishments reveal that being a martial artist was only one-half of a greater whole. It’s no secret Bruce also identified with other — socially rewarding — pursuits. He was a great actor and a celebrity. He was a great leader and role-model. He was a great teacher and a… Read more »
@blax MM is like the newtonian physics of attraction. Its the iron rules of how attraction progresses. If you actually understand it, you’ll find it accurately explains things in the field every time. Guys who dismiss MM are usually keyboard jockeys. If you actually go out and look for MM in the field, its mindblowing how well it explains everything, especially if you are a noob. The other thing is the refrain that MM “Only works on dumb bar sluts”. Which betrays a madonna/whore complex. AWALT. If you actually go out in the field you’ll know that the so called… Read more »
Sun “A few good stumbles and I just find myself asking when I can go home.” You need to make a bigger investment and get out of your comfort zone… Rolling solo into new venues with more targets and more focus by you will arrest slumping into familiarity and bad habits… The Mystery Method Newbie Drill • Go out gaming four nights per week for four hours each night. • Make three approaches per hour. This schedule allows for twenty minutes per approach. That adds up to twelve approaches per night — which is forty-eight per week and two hundred… Read more »
@ SJF
Lol!!! She’s read 48 laws. Maybe…..she took the hint?
I have her copy somewhere at home. That was back in, like ..2000?
She gave me The 50th Law by Greene and 50Cent ( Curtis Jackson ) for Christmas a while back.
” its mindblowing how well it explains everything, especially if you are a noob.”
For me, and many others, MM made the most sense when you get to early intermediate stage… and all of a sudden it seems, you start getting inconsistent results. and you wonder why and you go BACK to MM or to it for the first time, and “ah hah” all the light bulbs go off…
@sun Try to get a group of people you can have fun with even if you bomb with girls. If you don’t have wings or friends to go out with, find the most receptive and energetic people around and hang out with them. I have similar problems with getting into state. What I usually do is just walk around town and chat up people. When I find people I like, I go with them around town with venues. That way, if I try to game a girl and I bomb, who cares, I’ll just go hang out with the new… Read more »
@ Sentient
Thanks. I’m gonna read up and see what Mystery has to say.
Why is Mystery attacked by guys?
http://dallaspua.com/images_pua/pua_pics/mystery/mystery03.jpg
http://www.thepickupdiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/mystery-pua-in-field1.jpg
http://41.media.tumblr.com/f3a1d6af744f76503499864ec0a8266e/tumblr_norhszZXui1rysloio1_400.jpg
Dunno?
@ Sun Wukong “If I don’t think in the field, then I fall in to old JBY routines and shit comes out of my mouth that tanks an approach. ” Falling into old JBY routines and shit coming out of your mouth actually is “thinking”. It is remembering your old habits by thinking and worrying about them. It is thinking you are incompetent you suck and you hate who your were. None of that shit is true, but your fore-brain is feeding your feel bad centers that ugly shit. You have to not think even more and relax even more.… Read more »
Sun Wukong
That’s the problem I’m having. If I don’t think in the field, then I fall in to old JBY routines and shit comes out of my mouth that tanks an approach. If I do think, I stumble and look incongruent. Really really frustrating, particularly when you’re out solo and have to pump your own state to try again. A few good stumbles and I just find myself asking when I can go home.
Ok, so let’s try this: don’t overthink in the field.
@sentient That makes sense. Long story short, I’m somewhat of a natural who grew up in a very isolated state, so I would go long stretches without any attention from girls, or seeing many girls for that matter, but then once I got to talk to a girl for longer periods of time she’d almost always be super into me (because I used game without realizing it) and several were stalking me on facebook. But since this didn’t happen often I would ofc fuck it up somewhere down the line. So I got incredibly frustrated in wondering what the hell… Read more »
@Blaximus
“I have her copy somewhere at home.”
Actually reading the book is a waste of time because time is your most valuable asset. You don’t actually need to read the anecdotes about ancient ChinaMen.
For a wise man like you: All you need is to look at and bookmark this link and look at it once a week:
http://www.tke.org/files/file/The_48_Laws_of_Power.pdf
For a guy like you, you just peruse the list and murmur to yourself: “Sounds legit to me”.
“There seems to be a degree of civilization somewhat greater than grass huts and somewhat less than industrialized/urban . . .”
My own experience is that it occurs about when mud huts go from wattle and daub with thatched roofs:
to uniform sized bricks and clay tile roofs:
http://www.amoeba.com/admin/uploads/blog/Eric_B/adobe.jpeg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjNy6JIQS30
The first of the five or six or so online seminars by Mystery.
@Forge the Sky “There seems to be a degree of civilization somewhat greater than grass huts and somewhat less than industrialized/urban that creates greater community and lesser workloads than our current one. With disadvantages of course – loss of individual agency, lesser security….” This dynamic was well described and ascribed to the norms of Switzerland’s small cities as nation states in Nassim Taleb’s Antifragile. Lesser security is a theme of his book. Stressors making a difference in making you stronger via lesser securitizing. Trying to protect man’s downside often results in lessening his unlimited upside. Lesser security=more individual agency and… Read more »
Sun
This doesn’t resonate at all with you?
@Sentient No I get it, it’s just frustration over not getting laid for months and months on end. It’s getting to me. Like lately I’ve been focusing on building a social circle that covers as many venues in town as possible and working in approaches on chicks when I can, but it’s just that (and I know this will sound stupid and pathetic buuuuut) I fucking miss intimate human contact so fucking bad. Been way too long since I did so much as make out with a cute chick, never mind sex. Sex has been like… once a year at… Read more »
Kfg “My own experience is that it occurs about when mud huts go from wattle and daub with thatched roofs to uniform sized bricks and clay tile roofs….” So basically the transition happens when things are sophisticated enough that there’s some division of labor (creating even-sized bricks for efficient building) but we’re not yet at the stage where some poor sap has to spend his days analyzing gypsum samples under a fluorescent lamp thousands of miles from his ancestral home. It makes a broad sort of sense to me. Today, the exceptional man can proactively create a good world around… Read more »
@sun “No I get it, it’s just frustration over not getting laid for months and months on end. It’s getting to me.” yes, that happens. dude i ROUTINELY will get graceless rejections (for example, i like making hard eye contact and giving a smile…..now…. http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Brian-Fantana-60-of-the-time-it-works-every-time-Anchorman.gif but the rest of the time literally i will get some species of SNEER or acknowledgment and then some sort of dismissive look lol) the important thing to remember is to hold that frame. you have to keep executing — just rely on the external MM steps when your internals take a hit. it’s a… Read more »
@Sun Wukong At the risk of being a dick and a nag. I ask you: when you had your young, medium-term relationship. Did you over-think about it when it was on? Or did you just go with the flow. Stop fucking thinking. Let things develop without having a goal in mind. Sure, I know it’s trite. But it is not without thinking or having empathy for you. This community wishes the best for you and please do the same for yourself. You do everything else well. Relax and go with the flow. At the risk of being an even bigger… Read more »
If AR would get off his ass and actually read the book to the end, maybe a book report would be forthcoming.
“Some books are meant to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested; That is, some books are to be read only in parts; Others to be read, but not curiously; And some few to be read wholly, and with diligence and attention.” — Sir Francis Bacon
@yareally
hey man, can you tell me how to not make her an alpha widow? With the you making an emotional impact, setting boundaries and the no commitment thing, if she leaves you without you showing her that you are a beta (needy, desparate, no boundaries) she is bound to become an alpha widow. How to make sure that when she breaks up with you, she thinks of you as a chode and forgets you?
@Sun I have to say, hearing you’re going out puts a fire under my ass. The past couple of weekends I’ve tried going out w some dudes I know (3 different circles) and OH MY GOD it’s all married man/chode shit with them if I try pickup. Even w the dude that used to study this shit. So I’m out with this cute chick I’ve dropped a FR about before today -the to;dr is that she’s cool and into me but our common cultural background primes her to see me as a provider. This is basically a day 2. Good… Read more »
“How to make sure that when she breaks up with you, she thinks of you as a chode and forgets you?”
Just be one.
Somehow I don’t see wanting that and not being on your way there already.
@Scray Lol, I love that shit. One of my favorite parts of game is just creating these funny stories and circumstances. I love Tyler’s ‘I can’t go home with you. I’m too shy.’ Or when he does that whole routine where he describes in detail how he’s gonna make a beanbag chair bed for a girl at the foot of his bed. Just my sense of humor maybe. One I’ve come up with recently is, when a girl is trying to be dominant/bitchy, just frown at her and say: ‘you’re talking like a boy.’ Spikes attraction crazy most of the… Read more »
@fleezer ” I could point at thousands of failures. in reality only a few artists carry a record label into the black each year” Ya, you know which ones? The ones that get marketed in the way that gives them “it is NOT EXPLAINABLE why one thing/artist/product succeeds and many many others fail” lol “place your bets and take the wall street casino for all it’s got. oh yeah. you can’t. because human behavior is UNPREDICTABLE.” brb, ppl don’t sell their stocks when a crisis hits a company. In fact most people buy more stocks when the CEO comes out… Read more »
oops, that’s supposed to say “You aren’t very well-versed in how this shit works so you can’t see it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there”
@Rollo Giving the audio a listen. From skimming Currie’s YouTube stuff he’s just selling the standard “repackage PUA stuff and dumb it down into a less efficient but easier/faster to learn, more spam-approach based system” and focusing on the same aspects Naturals focus on (go up in a good state and shut your brain off and then just show intent, touch, calibrate, etc) which is great for certain types of guys but probably isn’t useful for the hardcase newbies who don’t already have some social skill/awareness. And because he’s focused so much on Natural stuff (I’m assuming he was a… Read more »
As a fairly new (and inactive in terms of actually sarging) student to actual Game, I’m on YaReally’s side on this. Mystery Method is brilliant and major props to Mystery. I’ve been to clubs maybe twice in the past year (I’m sure I can count the number of times in a single hand in my entire life), and when I posted my field report that included a bit how I somehow wound up holding hands with a girl in the club (no words exchanged) it was quite impressive how even something that simple was cast in terms of the Mystery… Read more »
@Rollo lol Currie sounds EXACTLY like what my Natural buddies would sound like if I gave them a microphone and said “teach guys how you get laid”. Same vibe of “everything I’m saying is the most brilliant thing anyone has ever said and MUST be causing my audience massive revelations at how genius it is as I educate them” The whole first like 30 min is just him talking about how awesome he is in various ways and his break music is girls saying over and over that he’s the verbal erotic seduction king preselecting him to his viewers etc… Read more »
@Rollo The thing with this stuff is that the reason I can come in and just rip apart what he’s saying and explain the differences in both sides etc is because PUA encourages guys to experiment with different methods/approaches and to push our comfort zones and try “crazy” shit like picking up foreign girls who don’t speak our language or picking up girls without talking or picking up girls without touching them or picking up girls while talking about asexual topics but then also picking up girls while touching them a ton and talking about fucking them and approaching direct,… Read more »
“The past couple of weekends I’ve tried going out w some dudes I know (3 different circles) and OH MY GOD it’s all married man/chode shit with them if I try pickup.” @Forge Oh man, I went out with my buddies a few weeks ago… it was Painful. We go out like twice a year. One of em didn’t even come out because his wife wanted him to go to a 4 year old’s birthday party. lol. wtf. I completely SHIT on him about that. Then we get out and I was so bored… We’re like at one of those… Read more »
Forge
This:
” frankly I haven’t figured out logistics like I should so I’m foundering here”
and this: “I went nowhere with that easy pass.”
Are linked… Don’t wing it! especially Day 2. Seems like a lot of guys sabotage themselves (Culum?) by not doing the right work… Day 2 logistics are totally within your control. Intent means having the killer instinct.
Question whether the self sabotage is intentional and subconscious?
Same thing re wings… Don’t bother with your LTR bro’s they are not good wings. Just go solo. Be strong, have intent and do the work (Sun!)…
Sun “I fucking miss intimate human contact so fucking bad. ” Rough man, no doubt. But what are you going to do now? How are you going to fix it? It’s like the dojo, you get out what you put in… Agree with everything YaReally prescribed… Also you need to first STOP just STOP hitting the same old places again. Never go back… It is putting you in a negative state. Impotent rage is the defining trait of the beta and the worst subcom… Just STOP. Second – definitely if you get interest from a 5 or 6, just fucking… Read more »
@Rollo I think it’s interesting that a language barrier can be bypassed in seduction with effective subcommunications. Alan hates even the idea of subcoms because (at least I think he believes) it’s not masculine, or dominant or on the table enough. i didn’t hear that interview, so maybe you covered this, but good, bad or indifferent, subcomms are ALWAYS in play…it’s just the language that girls use…lol…so, it’s a benefit to at least try to understand them (if your goal is actually interacting with girls for some reason…lol)…to paraphrase – just because you have no interest in the subcomms, doesn’t… Read more »
+My friends are all getting married and tend to only hang out with other couples or married people. When a woman enter a long-term relationship, or, to be more precise, when she elicits long-term commitment, she normally starts isolating her man from his social circle. I’ve never seen any man do the reverse of this. It’s to be expected in a society of unrestrained hypergamy and betaized men. The woman dominates the relationship, and she demands control over the man’s time as well. She sees all his single male friends as potential saboteurs of the relationship she wants to have.… Read more »
@scray you can be the most MM-aware motherfucker out there….sooner or later you will fuck up and look like a moron for a minute. guys who talk or speak as if it is otherwise are just dudes who a) play it safe or b) don’t have much, if any, experience. FURTHER…. a lot of those mistakes are just the result of people not taking the game FAR ENOUGH (LTR game versus STR game versus meet-greet-attract-bang game) +1… and not getting into the middle of the YaReally/theJin dustup…(well, i guess i am, if i’m commenting…lol) but THIS explains that disagreement…their two… Read more »
@Blaximus Ya and scray, An observation. You guys seem awfully invested in defending MM/Mystery in your exchanges with Jin. this might have been covered already (i’m just working my way through the comment section and haven’t gotten to the end yet…lol), but i know that YaReally hates the idea of ‘bad conclusions’ based on ‘personal experience/opinions’ (which i agree with 100% btw…) bc it might contribute to a lurker/newbie NOT taking action to better their life…or they might think that since they don’t want a bpd/LSE girl that they shouldn’t even try MM…and then they waste years of effort before… Read more »
@Blaximus
Beta/bluepill AFC’s ( I’m getting the hang of the terminology..) get less pussy, regardless. Simple. Lol.
they get less pussy…but also, when they do get it, it’s not desire sex…it’s negotiated sex…
good luck!
@Sun What I did right was completely ignored because it was assumed I should just be awesome at everything because I’m smart. No credit given for it, because it’s just a given that I should be that way. So, focus and dwell on the wrong plus you’re smart so you understand and enforce intellectual honesty only about what’s wrong with you. So you start out Game and you are absolutely horrible at it. Partly because you’re smart so you’re fucking weird as hell (particularly when what’s in your head leaves your mouth), partly because you hate yourself all the time… Read more »
@Sun
@SJF
Don’t think in the field.
That’s the problem I’m having. If I don’t think in the field, then I fall in to old JBY routines and shit comes out of my mouth that tanks an approach. If I do think, I stumble and look incongruent. Really really frustrating, particularly when you’re out solo and have to pump your own state to try again. A few good stumbles and I just find myself asking when I can go home.
that’s bc you are trying to eat an elephant in one sitting…lol…or become Ip man over night…
good luck!
@Forge Fuck. She’s soft-lobbing the innuendo to me. I’ve got nothing. I’ve always got something. Me: ‘Uh, so you gonna go somewhere with that innuendo or should I?’ Her: ‘that’s what I was thinking.’ you know that you should have kissed her here, right?…at least in hindsight?… HB5 in the bookstore was fawning for me to open, and an HB7.5 hung around a bit longer than necessary giving subtle IOI’s. you know that you should have kissed them here, right?…at least in hindsight?…lol…then bounce to an instadate… or get their numbers… Fuck me, I still haven’t memorized a canned open… Read more »
Sun – a few years back I was working at a crummy job. Some of my cow-orkers were pretty good team members, some were bad, and a couple were really despicable. As in “are you trying to set me up to get fired?” despicable. From time to time on my day off or when I was really tired at night I’d start ruminating about what turds they were. Sometimes for more than an hour. After doing this for a couple of years, I had a realization: no way I would ever want them in my apartment, but by turning over… Read more »
@ya “Fucking yes. Like I say did someone leave a gate open? Did just a bunch of retards stumble in here or something? Why are we having to rehash the basics like this lol” the confusion i think comes from the process of men just finding out what they ACTUALLY want. for ex, a guy may think he wants a virginal religious girl and so he will go out and screen hard for that. but then, like, he finds that she’s boring or that he doesn’t like her that much or her personality sucks, etc. etc. so he’ll go find… Read more »
@ Sun
@AR
“Wing chun is designed to teach you how to beat up toddlers”
In defense of his views, I could totally rip a toddler in half.
You had me lol’ing. No, I still don’t want a date. But you ARE easy to talk to.
I was at a Starbucks in Barnes and Noble. I opened a couple of teenagers. They had just asked about some peach lemonade tea, but ordered water. I said, “The last of the big spenders.” They roared. I then asked them about the tea. They got their water and left. I had had my fun.
Fun. Reminds me, last Sat. I saw the broad who had fingered my crack when we had danced months ago and she was making lewd faces at me. Ugh! Not fun. Fucking disrespectful.
It was brought home to me Sat. night that men need to get out in the mix just to develop the social skills they need so that they can act effectively in real time. Just what YaReally was saying. Being a keyboard jockey won’t cut it. I stayed til last call, Mrs. Gamer being out of town and all. It was…interesting.
One broad even made it clear that she was DTF. Not my type, tho.
@ HABD
Did you ever reply to my question earlier in the thread? I stuck @ HABD in the middle of it.
@theasdgamer
@ HABD
Did you ever reply to my question earlier in the thread? I stuck @ HABD in the middle of it.
ya, it’s in here somewhere…lol
good luck!
Heh, thanks YaReally. I thought for a bit and remembered that Roosh actually had a good all-purpose opener in his book I read back when. That I let myself forget. “Looks like you’re having the most fun of anyone here.” It works well bc you can use it sarcastically if she looks bored or sincerely if she looks excited, and you can easily expand from it. I got AI from two girls in the bookstore yesterday; first one was HB5 and was practically fawning, wandering around the store in my vincinity for the duration of my stay. “Looks like you’re… Read more »
Whoop, sorry, fucked up the italics.
@Rollo, vis a vis sub comms. I tried to listen to the whole interview but I ran out of time as I have shit to design, like I am actually saving fucking lives because I am drawing hospitals right now. So this will probably be TLDR but whatever here is a brain dump from my sample group of one. In retrospect I have picked up at least three chicks almost on sub-comms alone. Norwegian chick in Portugal, Swedish chick in Finland and Japanese chick in Japan. All three were at sporting events, that’s why I was travelling. In two cases… Read more »
@ Sentient
Lol. I like the Mystery seminar vid so far. I’m halfway through ( multitasking ). So this guy is the pioneer, mostly? Interesting.
Oh, and I never understood ” social proof ” really ( never heard that term in life before hanging out here in the comments….and I’m old..) but YAAAAYYYY!!!!! I have metric tons of the stuff!!!! Lmao.
But seriously, I get what Mystery defenders are saying. Good stuff, especially since he was one of the first.
@rollo With regards to the show with Currie, what @yareally said. My impression was that he spent the first 15 minutes of the show qualifying himself to all who would listen then he was kind of a paper Alpha about his house his rules kind of shit. I sat back and took in what I could. One thing that stood out was clearly he spends a lot of time dealing with Strong independent black women. So frankly I cannot blame him for having wall of words game. If I may paint with a broad brush, I cannot stand women like… Read more »
Blax
“Oh, and I never understood ” social proof ” really ( never heard that term in life before hanging out here in the comments….and I’m old..) but YAAAAYYYY!!!!! I have metric tons of the stuff!!!!”
LOL. But yes and no. You see how valuable social proof is, when you have it. And you have it – in your social set. You don’t have it in mine for example.
Hence having a system you (or anyone) can follow to generate social proof anywhere on the fly, you can see how valuable that is… right?
Cheers!
Sentient
”
You see how valuable social proof is, when you have it. And you have it – in your social set. You don’t have it in mine for example.”
Aw shit. Party Pooper.
@Rollo I heard most of that part of the interview live. Haven’t had a chance to listen to the whole thing, so I might be misrepresenting him; but I got the impression that he was overemphasizing the utility of intent, and seemed kinda down on non-sexual interactions for women – like you should be sexual with them or ignore them. I’ve had a few conversations with women today that were just fun and didn’t go anywhere, and it boosted my mood and made my day better. Sometimes just interacting with someone is fine. You don’t need to filter your interactions… Read more »
@Forge I got AI from two girls in the bookstore yesterday; first one was HB5 and was practically fawning, wandering around the store in my vincinity for the duration of my stay. and why didn’t you kiss her?…lol…not kidding..wasn’t she hot enough for you?… lol… did she give 3 IOIs?… = go for the kiss… The second one was a very pretty girl – HB7.5. She was a lot more subtle, as higher SMV girls tend to be, just sort of looking off into space and then choosing to check her texts at a table right near me. Then when… Read more »
Agent P I sat back and took in what I could. One thing that stood out was clearly he spends a lot of time dealing with Strong independent black women. So frankly I cannot blame him for having wall of words game. If I may paint with a broad brush, I cannot stand women like that for myriad reasons, they drive me insane, just the antithesis of femininity so fuck that noise. To that extent I can understand why he has to take a hard direct approach to them, frequently they are totally lacking in social graces like listening to… Read more »
@HABD
Yep, we were talking about my inability to open in daygame lol.
Haven’t field tested either open yet, but intend to. It’s my best guess that a bit more social energy would be helpful with the ‘tell me something fun’ open (since you’re jumping to kino/compliance quickly) whereas the ‘having most fun here’ would often open a ‘colder’ set more reliably.
But I’ll report back if that doesn’t pan out!
@Forge the Sky “I think another aspect of the question is overt vs. covert” This. I would say Currie is actually debating “overt VS overt” in his head, while Rollo (and Yad and myself etc) are debating “indirect VS direct”, but in the same discussion with him. Like, his view of “indirect” is this weird asexual long-form “be a nice guy around her for 7 hours and hope she picks you” thing. He doesn’t understand subcomms so he doesn’t get that you can say “the weather is cold today…” but with a slow seductive voice and laser eye-contact etc you… Read more »
This highly offensive article just dropped on nytimes
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/education/edlife/teaching-men-to-be-emotionally-honest.html
My super feminist ex wife sent it to me with the comment “There is no agenda here other than it was sent to me, and I’m passing it on” smh my spider senses were tingling lol yeah right no agenda.
Anyways the article is pure foolishness but the comments.. Whoa boys I Tell ya, rp awareness is spreading one way or another.
“But it can help guys who are starting off from a much worse spot to understand the little mechanics behind “ohh, so I need X amount of value to her, which I can demonstrate through these DHV routines which I can design to trigger these specific attraction triggers Mystery laid out (preselection, leader of men, protector of loved ones, etc), and THEN this opener, which is asking for compliance, is more likely to succeed than if I just cold opened with it and kept getting uncooperative girls and thinking maybe it’s my fault like I’m a loser or whatever”. It’s… Read more »
Speaking of this btw, I’ve been meaning to post: I watched that video a couple of threads ago where YaReally posted some RSD video about practicing and improvement which has the footage of Julien’s first attempts at making a video – and more than the actual content of the video, that was like night and day. It’s not easy to even pin down the *reason* but it’s so obvious that he sucks badly in that first video (especially as they show all the takes and retakes of the same sentence) compared to how good he is now – the impact… Read more »
@yareally “She probably won’t think of you as a chode if you’ve attracted her properly though you could try just acting beta/chode/supplicative and see what happens (basically smother her with supplicative affection and stop enforcing boundaries etc). But ideally you just try to avoid her catching too many feelings for you from the start by doing stuff like not seeing her very often (once a week MAX, ideally once every two weeks) and not doing relationship cuddly date/boyfriend stuff with her and juggling other girls (and making sure she knows) and not txting her all day etc Like don’t build… Read more »