Novaseeker had an excellent breakdown of how Hypergamy has developed and is radically altering a long established social order in favor of one centered on the female sexual strategy. This was timely for a post I was working on, so rather than allow it to be buried in the last thread I thought I’d riff on it a bit here:
So in my head, I tried to think of what the best response to hidden estrus would be from a male perspective, and the only thing I could think of was essentially hiding male horniness, I used the word stoicism. The only way to balance the effects of hidden estrus is for all men to simply appear to not want what a women are offering, to appear uninvested, uninterested, etc.., because this again gives the perception of a lack of abundance to the women and re-balances things. Eventually such behavior would become selected for to some degree, and male emotions would become less prominent.
I agree with what you are saying, although I think it’s important to bear in mind that the expression of female sexuality historically was quite restricted, once we were at a level of more complex social organization beyond the rather small. Things did vary by community and culture somewhat, but once things reached that level of social advance, in most places a woman’s family/kin had a huge control over the expression of her sexuality, with the parents (largely the father) and to a lesser extent her male brothers exerting substantial restrictive pressure on the expression of her sexuality.
I should note here that while there is a definite social structure built around various strategies of mate guarding, these social mores and familial repression of women’s Hypergamous impulses does, in fact, stem from evolved, behavioral adaptations.
Kin Affiliation Across the Ovulatory Cycle : Females Avoid Fathers When Fertile Consider that girls will make subconscious efforts to avoid their fathers during the proliferative phase of their ovulatory cycle. Also, consider girls enter puberty at an earlier age when their fathers are not present in the family. Both of these are examples of phenomena that have a physical manifestation and a latent evolutionary purpose, but socially we build moral/social frameworks around buffering for (or sometimes accommodating) them.
Likewise, there are social controls that span all cultures that have the same purpose of buffering against the predations and mechanics of women’s Hypergamous natures. The most stringent of these might be repressing of women’s sexuality, but the latent purpose is still the same; controlling for paternity assurances.
There was, of course, cheating of the system that took place in terms of women bucking the system covertly, but most women were not sexual free agents in most places most of the time historically, and so were not acting on their estrus, concealed or otherwise at these later points in history. It does seem like something which likely occurred prior to the time we developed significant social organization (which is unclear when it precisely happened, but likely happened gradually quite some time before the development of large-scale agriculture), and is inherited from that earlier time, while the later social structures mostly, or at least in many cases, served to rather severely hem in the expression of female sexuality and free sexual choice to a large degree.
The Feminine Imperative that exists today still uses these historically extreme controls as a baseline for provoking an emotional response among women (and feminized men) today. In spite of the realities of Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckoldry, and paired with the fact that we live in the most sexually permissive society the world has largely known to this point, there is still a necessity to sell a narrative of sexual repression in order to perpetuate a social condition of ‘victimization’ among women and thus perpetuate a status of concern and primary importance.
So I guess my perspective is not that what you are suggesting is incorrect, in terms of the deeper evolutionary inheritance, but that the response of men to this eventually evolved, socially, into the use of social/legal/moral structures that acted as a counterweight to the inter-sexual issues raised by concealed estrus, and that, being social animals, this was itself also a powerfully selected thing (tribes that did not adopt similar restrictive measures did not generally survive except in relatively isolated areas where they were not exposed to the same degree of competition with patriarchal tribes and their sexually restrictive cultures). I suspect it dawned on the males in some tribal groups that the gains to be had from a kind of system of “one girl for (almost) every guy (who isn’t killed in war, or banished or enslaved)” when it came to women, in terms of reducing sex-related conflict among men, became more important when the scale/size of social organization grew beyond the small and moved to a larger, more complex scale, where different structures were needed to ensure cooperation and alleviate conflict which could undermine that cooperation and the scale made possible by it. So in other words, the strategy that men adopted had to do with the needs of the social order and the need for greater cooperation and less conflict once the scale grew to the point where close kinship among the males could no longer feasibly serve as a conflict-reducer effectively.
This was done, of course, at the direct expense of the female sexual strategy, and females have been scratching and clawing against that result in various ways ever since that time, but really have only recently had the success of overturning pretty much all aspects of that restrictive system (while retaining selective elements of it in form, mostly, as it serves their own interests) with the collaboration of most men, by the way, in the process (for various reasons, many of which Rollo has detailed in various posts on this blog). The resulting system is therefore new, and requires men to adapt, which is what we are about doing here, of course. The idea is to have a system which is of a large scale and complexity, socially, and which requires high levels of cooperation in order to function, while at the same time removing the last vestiges of of the “one girl for (almost) every guy” sexual system and replacing it with the freest, most open and adversarial system of sexual competition among males that our species has likely seen since long before the time we evolved into socially-based human groups.
I’ve covered most of the male adaptiveness that Nova mentions here in the Adaptation series of posts. For the short version, however, it’s important to note that even the sexual restrictiveness of women in prior eras were themselves adaptations meant to buffer against women’s conflicting sexual strategy. As I stated in the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies, for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other must either be compromised or abandoned. Prior sexual restrictiveness was a repression meant to force women to abandon and later (in monogamy) compromise their own Hypergamy (Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks).
It remains to be seen how feasible this is, longer term, because it is still so new. And the adaptation required by men is substantial, because the change is gargantuan from anything we have experienced in thousands upon thousands of years, in terms of sexual system and related mores. I think relatively few will adapt, and the majority of men will fail at the system, in terms of actually getting what they want. I don’t mean most guys will be incel all their lives, but that their relationships with women will be extremely skewed to the women’s terms, through a combination of outright duping, indoctrination into wishful thinking, and a steady move towards ever more libertine sexual morality for women as a part of the further expression of the Feminine Imperative.
And that comes back to the concealed estrus issue, because the social solution that men in certain groups came up with a long, long time ago (substantial restrictions on female sexual expression) is now pretty much completely removed in this culture, meaning that it is playing a bigger role in human inter-sexual relations than it has been permitted to play in a long time. In fact, the development of reproductive technologies and the related legal regime supporting their free use has augmented the ability of women to utilize this aspect of themselves to tilt the field in their favor, well beyond what nature provided them, in terms of controlling who among the men gets to breed. Again, most men will not be able to adapt quickly enough and will be in lopsided relationships as a result. Other men, like us, are able to adapt and thrive under the new system as individuals, knowing full well we can’t really overthrow something like the sea change in sexual system that we have seen occur, even if we thought that was wise, which it may very well not be. Every man, once he comes to this realization, therefore has a choice to make, really, and a fairly stark one. Most guys have no chance, however, because they are totally subsumed by the feminine primary and never come to a realization of things as they are, and just what the heck happened in the culture, sexually, over the last 100 years or so.
Although my last post may have been on the melodramatic side, the exaggeration is still founded on the same dynamic Nova is getting at here. Since the time of the sexual revolution there has been a complete social abdication on the part of men to have any say in exercising, much less advocating for, prioritizing their own interests in the sexual strategies equation.
It’s gotten to the point that even men’s initiating an approach at the most marginal form of intimacy runs the risk of not just rejection, but legal and social punishments for even taking it upon himself. The onus of sexual selection, as per every legal mandate, is unilaterally placed upon the part of women. The latent purpose of this is to prioritize women’s sexuality and women’s sexual strategy (Hypergamy) above men’s – all while clinging to the pretense of the sexual repressions that they believe still characterize the condition of women.
If you ever wonder at the declining marriage rates, the delaying of marriage until well past women’s prime fertility years, male suicide rates being four times that of women or the rise of men who’ve contented themselves in being single for their lives look no further than this reprioritization of women’s Hypergamy as the socially predominant sexual strategy.
[…]
I would say that attempts at overt male control of covert female sexuality oftentimes amount to window dressing that only serve to help convince the men of their paternity, even when they’ve no reason to be assured of it. Only in cultures like those established by strict Islamic doctrine/Sharia Law can paternity be (mostly) assured by social forces. Outside of that, women can oftentimes have free reign at getting away with good old-fashioned cuckoldry.
In a social order founded on Hypergamy, that dynamic demands that men’s utterly abdicate their sexual and biological imperatives to women. This means any paternity assurances, or even the idea that they should matter to a man, must be surrendered to the point that they are literally conditioned and bred out of the consciousnesses of men.
I’m hitting upon this in the hopes of prompting some discussion about the aspects of Hypergamy Novaseeker mentions here, but also because I will be discussing much of this with Alan Roger Currie this coming Thursday night on his podcast.
We’ll be talking at 10pm EST/7pm PST and this will be a live call-in format, so if you’d like to participate I’d encourage you to do so. While my appearance is not necessarily an endorsement of Mode One or anything else Currie is selling, I respect him as a thoughtful interviewer and he’s been asking me to appear for some time now.
@SJF
Heh, Dalrymple? So long as he’s around I know that the British spirit that birthed Chesterton still lives.
Re:Hypothesis on the increased in the arrogance of young women. Turns out that the people born since 1980 in the U.S. are the most educated but the least skilled ever. Check out this summary of how we stack up against the rest of the developed world in numeracy, literacy and problem solving in technology rich environments.
Do you actually think Finnish, Japanese, Swedish and Australian young women are less arrogant than their American peers?
Outside of the Manosphere, such constructions what you have offered are referred to as “bro science”.
It’d probably be a great parallel to speak of “grrl science”, which is an accurate catch-all term for all the junk science about social dynamics and gender relations popularized in the mainstream media and lapped up enthusiastically by women, especially middle-class feminist women.
Here’s a good article on the change of Japanese male identity:
http://fujiland-mag.blogspot.com/2010/03/japan-at-crossroads.html
“So what is the human race selecting for? What are the women selecting for?”
Co-operative comfort.
@ghersolas
Agreed, hopefully Rollo is considering implementing a comment section re-design that will be easier to follow threads as they develop on each of his articles.
On the grass hut v modern civ point: 99.99% of people who want to “go back and live in harmony with the Earth” etc simply have no clue just how much backbreaking hard work is involved just to manage survival without modern energy sources and technology. Now I’m 100% a city boy and I don’t pretend to know much about surviving outdoors, but I do find the subject interesting and have done some interesting reading. The New York Times had a good article in the last couple of years – unfortunately can’t easily google the link – a profile of… Read more »
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html “The contrast between capitalist and precapitalist work patterns is most striking in respect to the working year. The medieval calendar was filled with holidays. Official — that is, church — holidays included not only long “vacations” at Christmas, Easter, and midsummer but also numerous saints’ andrest days. These were spent both in sober churchgoing and in feasting, drinking and merrymaking. In addition to official celebrations, there were often weeks’ worth of ales — to mark important life events (bride ales or wake ales) as well as less momentous occasions (scot ale, lamb ale, and hock ale). All told, holiday… Read more »
OK guys, as you’re talking about hacking hypergamy here, can I ask for a bit of detail on the mechanics of demonstrating higher value? I’m really freaked btw about the hacking angle – neat. So to DHV is effectively to have the mannerisms of the tribe alpha from an age when it was fie for men to kill each other to establish aplha position? This is why betas were created – if you know you can’t beat the alpha you don’t look him in the eye cos he’ll whack you. These days it’s not OK to kill a guy to… Read more »
As regards Dysgenics and Eugenics, there is a really easy test to perform that doesn’t require anyone to impose values. You can use this problem solving tool in a lot of places, fwiw. Its this – Does the current set up achieve the goals of the people within it? And the answer is no. Women aren’t getting their alphas, men aren’t getting their happy sex filled marriages and the resultant children aren’t what either side would want either. So we can say that on the gen pops stated and implicit aims, the current system is dysgenic. Women are getting alpha… Read more »
@Just getting it: more like faking it till you make it. Yes at the beginning you are trying to mimic alpha behaviours – as you get better and have more reference experiences you internalize it until it is actually you and it’s not fake anymore. In other words, more about learning to become alpha over time. As for the exact mechanics – you have the whole of the YaReally Archive waiting for you about PUA which is basically about hacking hypergamy. Start with the posts where sets out the basic Game resources for newbies – and go out and practice.… Read more »
“It’d probably be a great parallel to speak of “grrl science””
Nothing is safe:
https://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/feminism-and-programming-languages
http://130.58.92.210/Students/phys29_2013/ElectronicReadings/Week%2014/JWM_3648_Whitten_pp115-134_UL%20copy.pdf
Wow. I should not be surprised, but I am. A “feminist programming language?” That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.
If they ever do invent such a thing, it will probably be about as useful as lol code:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOLCODE
All source files will have to start with trigger warnings.
@ludiamondz Enjoy the present for what it is. I find mindfulness and mindful mediation helps me quiet the endless mental distractions and what ifs There is also the matter of your codependent personality and your coming to terms with that. ” Definitely alot of mental work to be done. Meditating helps. But I have a hard time being “present” without alcohol. I dont drink every day but always when socializing. I know this is a problem. The only way that makes sense to me to stop is to drop my entire social circle. Which freaks me out. Starting over from… Read more »
@Just getting it
“OK guys, as you’re talking about hacking hypergamy here, can I ask for a bit of detail on the mechanics of demonstrating higher value?”
Read Mystery Method. He breaks it down really well.
http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-1/
Beware mystery method a little, it has a hidden trap or two. Not that it doesn’t work, but check out The Rawness link above for why it should be used with caution.
Essentially, Ricky Raws argument is that MM is designed to find damaged/bipolar/codependent chicks because that’s what Mystery was unconsciously looking for when he designed it.
@kfg
http://media1.giphy.com/media/APcFiiTrG0x2/200.gif
@The Jin “Essentially, Ricky Raws argument is that MM is designed to find damaged/bipolar/codependent chicks because that’s what Mystery was unconsciously looking for when he designed it.” lol Ricky Raw doesn’t know his head from his ass with regards to pickup. Dude is 100% mental masturbation and hasn’t done his research on the community or what it teaches: http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-4/ “I think about 10-20% of what’s discussed in the PUA philosophy is useful, but most of it is damaging and puts you in a horrible mental frame.” “A major problem with the PUA stuff is that it attacks the symptoms of… Read more »
Jin – “Essentially, Ricky Raws argument is that MM is designed to find damaged/bipolar/codependent chicks because that’s what Mystery was unconsciously looking for when he designed it.”
What? Said nothing like this in the linked articles (P1 and P2)?
@Just getting it Here’s a super concise fast breakdown of 25 little DHV/subcommunication things you can tweak starting now. This is from the Tyler Digest, oldschool cocky Tyler goodness…posting it in full ’cause all the regulars here can use a refresher on this now and then: “Taught a few hundred guys by now just from meeting guys through PAIR and in workshops recently, and this is the stuff that ups their game instantly with no tactics or anything. I see this s t ALL THE TIME. It’s the BIGGEST and most COMMON problem I see after everyone I’ve met. This… Read more »
As a thought experiment, if you could travel back in time about 80 years and say “What would our society look like if we maximally increased women’s sexual freedom and maximally restricted men’s sexual freedom?”, you would end up pretty much where we are today.
With Open Hypergamy, Open Cuckoldry, and women whoring themselves around with virtually no consequences whatsoever. Meanwhile, the bottom 80-90% of men risk public shame, job loss, and even arrest and prosecution if they so much as glance at an uninterested woman in public.
@Yareally. I did say MM worked. I just said you have to be a little careful. You might be right that Ricky doesn’t know about pick up. He is bang on about the psychology aspect, however, and he is right that people can’t fix their underlyying issues by just becoming good at pick up. (Any more than they can fix their underlying issues by becoming rich or jacked or learning to paint or whatever.) MM techniques like negs, takeaways, shut downs for LMR etc do seem to work best on bipolar types, ime. You don’t need them with HSE types… Read more »
This was posted on asktrp and TheRedPill, by a guy approaching 30 and making good money. He writes: +My friends are all getting married and tend to only hang out with other couples or married people. +I would like to have children and my kids need to be raised by a mother with good values and not some bimbo plate. +It is nice having someone special that really understands you and what you are going through in work/life. +It is nice to have someone to bring around family/home for holiday events (Christmas, Thanksgiving etc.) Is this still possible? Can he… Read more »
@Jin
Rollo has already covered that.
@redlight
LTR as goal is a sucker’s game. If he has to go on Ask TRP, he probably shouldn’t be looking for an LTR yet. I would think it’s one of those things once you’ve got everything solid that you naturally figure out on your own.
@The Jin “I just said you have to be a little careful.” You supported Ricky Raw’s opinion that “MM is designed to find damaged/bipolar/codependent chicks”. Can’t just throw accusations like that around and not expect anyone to call you on it. “he is right that people can’t fix their underlyying issues by just becoming good at pick up” Yes, we cover that in PUA. CONSTANTLY. “MM techniques like negs, takeaways, shut downs for LMR etc do seem to work best on bipolar types, ime. You don’t need them with HSE types who are into you because you are going to… Read more »
Re: IQ and Intelligence – Correlation does not equal causation. The trend at work in the upper classes – income is higly correlated with intelligence – is monogamy, less frequent divorce, along with living apart from lower classes from birth now wrt school, sports leagues, and all forms of civic engagement. Charles Murray goes through all this in Coming Apart, perhaps the best presentation of how the new elite (80% or better of whom are Progressive) live utterly separate lives from the middle and working classes now (and how this has evolved from a very different reality just 50 years… Read more »
“TIGHT SHOULDERS”, “STANDING WITH LEGS NOT HALF A METER APART AT LEAST = worried that you’ll infringe on other people’s personal space” these are two things (in tyler’s top 5) that can be directly improved by lifting. shoulders are tough. they are easily irritated/injured. too many guys focus just on pushing so they get big anterior delts and that’s it. it makes a man’s body look funny and compromises his posture. it’s totally worth it to take the time to hit the lateral and posterior deltoid with pulley work, as well as the infraspinatus. after some time you’ll not only… Read more »
@Yareally – you are reading things into what I said which are not there. You can do better than that, I am sure. I can respond to your points but you’ll have to take the mind reading and making things up from nowhere bit out first before I can do so properly. @Scribblerg – I’d be wary of listening to women complement your smarts. It can just be the rationalisation hamster. Not saying it is, but it can be. As for IQ and the use of such arguments to excuse not sacking up and getting out there, you are right.… Read more »
Well, this has a bit to do with the millennial girl attitude. And also how negative emotions work with a HSE girl. I’m gonna try to reproduce part of a text convo with a mid-teens chick I had (younger sister of a friend, I have a kinda older-brother relationship with her. I basically treat her like a pet – I’ll poke her, pick her up and move her around, tease her, etc just to see how she reacts – but I’ll get serious with her and talk her through her highschool drama if I feel like it). She’s in Cancun… Read more »
Weird, dunno what happened with the pictures not embedding. You can click through and see them.
@scribblerg “– Why do I give a shit? Because I believe this reinforces Beta, Blue Pill mythology that smart, Beta men are victims of women in our society. They feel “I worked hard at school and am so much smarter and worthy, making a huge contribution to society but those stupid cunts just want that dumb jock, Chad Thundercock, waaaahhh, the world is set against me.” It’s just a another expression of what I call “The Beta’s Lament” and there is a shitload of it expressed here and throughout the manosphere. This is more self-serving delusion and social-conditioning that doesn’t… Read more »
@Yareally.
…if you take out the mindreading and irrelevent bits.
I did say you aren’t reading what I write and aren’t responding to it properly, and you’ve responded to that simple two sentence observation…by not reading THAT and not responding properly.
@The Jin
“I did say you aren’t reading what I write and aren’t responding to it properly, and you’ve responded to that simple two sentence observation…by not reading THAT and not responding properly.”
So clarify. I responded to what you wrote. If you don’t like my response, clarify your position better or provide rebuttals instead of this “you didn’t respond properly, try to guess what I want you to write before I write my reply” stuff.
Ok, please just read my original comments and don’t mind read anything into them that isn’t there.
Then, when you’ve done that, I can respond. Your posts are great but a long tangent into elliot rogers, how do naturals bypass ASD and LMR and some random man named bobby I am supposed to mind read into using the same framework you are doing when you set off down that path without prompting I’m just not up for because they aren’t responding to anything I actually wrote.
Does this help?
@The Jin “Ok, please just read my original comments” I read them the first time. You linked Ricky Raw’s inaccurate take on PUA, and then you wrote shit like this: “MM techniques like negs, takeaways, shut downs for LMR etc do seem to work best on bipolar types, ime. You don’t need them with HSE types who are into you because you are going to fuck anyway. You don’t need MM if your inner game is tight because you are going to do all those things automatically. You don’t have to go through a TD checklist because you are already… Read more »
“The reason smart guys don’t end up with social intelligence is because they don’t know you can fucking LEARN it.”
Amen to that.
@SJF – thanks for the Theodore Dalrymple link you provided above, (you alluded that you are directing that my way). Can I therefore take it that you actually are interested in an exchange of ideas, a meeting of the minds so to speak, with me (despite how each exchange in the past has tended to go, as I pointed out to you earlier in this thread)? I hope so …… that is actually what I am trying for here. I take it that you meant to inform me of Theodore Dalrymple’s article so as to hi-light his points about the… Read more »
Ricky Raws accurate take on Mystery Method in The Game, as it happens. He has Mystery and Strauss personalities down cold. Its absolutely correct that you don’t need MM if your inner game is tight. Or did people not have sex before late 2003? My grandad said otherwise before he passed on but he might be lying and I can’t exactly as him now. Well, not ask him and get an answer at any rate. I then said that MM tends to work best on bipolar types, ime. Or are you really telling me you’ve never just met someone, liked… Read more »
“Because a guy looking for resources is, inherently, not a guy that’s “supposed” to reproduce. He’s not an alpha who just figured it out, so girls don’t WANT him to figure it out because it’s like “imposter genes” floating around out there and they can’t tell the difference.” the young guys banging girls underage haven’t figured out shit. at that early stage, alpha has very very little to do with game. these guys make mistake on top of mistake but the girls overlook it or in reality don’t even see it to begin with because they’ve already decided that his… Read more »
Did someone leave a gate open today or something? @The Jin “He has Mystery and Strauss personalities down cold.” And that part is fine, everyone knows Mystery has issues, it was on page one of the book. But that doesn’t mean that Mystery Method was designed for LSE bipolar girls or that guys learning Mystery Method will be going for LSE bipolar girls, which is what Ricky Raw says and you are throwing your hat in to support. “Its absolutely correct that you don’t need MM if your inner game is tight. Or did people not have sex before late… Read more »
“Or are you really telling me you’ve never just met someone, liked each other and gone off to fuck? Every single time you’ve done the whole array of hoop jumping have ye?”
@Jin
I’m not a game master or anything, but it seems to me that every successful seduction follows Mystery Method. Whether you’re doing it consciously or not. How could it not?
@ya@all “God yes. If you’re smart as fuck then you have CRAZY potential with game” yes. people don’t understand this at all because they don’t understand how to DEMONSTRATE intelligence. most people just like to argue or talk talk talk talk talk. you want to turn a girl on with your smarts? sneak into somewhere with her. could be as silly as a movie theater or a buffet or something. learn how to run some mild tricks on people with her being in on it. this is the SAME SKILL represented by learning MM and applying it. what’s the skill?… Read more »
@Yareally. >And that part is fine, everyone knows Mystery has issues, it was on page one of the book. But that doesn’t mean that Mystery Method was designed for LSE bipolar girls or that guys learning Mystery Method will be going for LSE bipolar girls, which is what Ricky Raw says and you are throwing your hat in to support. I said it seems to work best on those types of girls, ime. Then you sort of try and mangle the MM formula to justify none MM relationships, which is ok I guess in a defend your argument kind of… Read more »
@Jin “I then said that MM tends to work best on bipolar types, ime. Or are you really telling me you’ve never just met someone, liked each other and gone off to fuck? ” the VAST MAJORITY of sexual encounters happen after some level or amount of ‘courtship.’ yes, some chicks don’t make you wait at all. some make you wait a little long, but most put up a token amount of ‘at least court me in x y z’ way (no, not necessarily dinner/movie or even dates, just some AMOUNT of interaction). with the ‘long’ ones taking about 7… Read more »
Actually somewhat on topic, though this item could be worthy of separate comment. F.I.R.E., the free-speech-on-campus advocacy group, is ready to file a formal legal challenge to the Office of Civil Rights “Dear Colleague” letter sent to colleges and universities in 2001, the purported federal legal foundation for “yes means yes” codes by which college men get expelled (i.e., Yale) or administratively “prosecuted” (Columbia’s Mattress Girl): for fucking/trying to fuck/fucking without notarized consent forms complete with sealing wax: https://www.thefire.org/fire-aims-to-challenge-legality-of-federal-sexual-misconduct-mandate/ The challenge has, I think, a strong basis: this so-called federal mandate has never been adopted as a formal regulation under… Read more »
lol no wonder the guy is so red-pill esque “In 1989, von Trier’s mother told him on her deathbed that the man whom von Trier had thought was his biological father had not been, and that he was the result of a liaison she had had with her former employer, Fritz Michael Hartmann (1909–2000),[72] who was descended from a long line of German-speaking Roman Catholic classical musicians. Hartmann’s grandfather was Emil Hartmann, his great grandfather J. P. E. Hartmann, his uncles included Niels Gade and Johan Ernst Hartmann, and Niels Viggo Bentzon was his cousin. She stated that she did… Read more »
It’s ok to think MM is a good way to conceptualize social interactions/attraction in general while also recognizing that someone using it – such as its originator – could be filtering for LSE girls in subtle ways. The two aren’t necessarily related. It is good to add the core self-improvement stuff on top of that, just like you should do that for people looking for tips how to make lots of money, because money and women are huge sources of external validation for people. And so people will often go to them first when they’re trying to cover up internal… Read more »
“@all
you guys should watch that movie Nymphomaniac by Lars Von Trier. which is why what ends up happening at the end, happens.”
@scray
Thanks for RUINING it. 😛
@andy
“Thanks for RUINING it. 😛”
lol I was vague enough i thought. but it’s seriously worth a watch.
bonus points if you watch it with a chick
@The Jin “I said it seems to work best on those types of girls, ime.” And you are wrong. Because you fundamentally don’t understand Mystery Method or how/why those things work and why they work better on HSE girls instead of LSE ones. You don’t Neg an LSE girl, you Neg a girl with HSE. “Then you sort of try and mangle the MM formula to justify none MM relationships,” If by “mangle”, you mean “actually understand it”, then yes that’s what I’m doing. “and then you do the not quite but implicit accusations of keyboard jockeying etc. Tiresome.” If… Read more »
@Scray >the VAST MAJORITY of sexual encounters happen after some level or amount of ‘courtship.’ yes, some chicks don’t make you wait at all. some make you wait a little long, but most put up a token amount of ‘at least court me in x y z’ way (no, not necessarily dinner/movie or even dates, just some AMOUNT of interaction). with the ‘long’ ones taking about 7 hrs of interaction, the ‘short’ ones maybe taking idk, 30 mins, and the average ones around 2-4 hrs. Never gone around a club kissing all the girls? That doesnt happen often, but if… Read more »
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/the-unbearable-triteness-of-hating/ 8. False Premises Hate Hater: Yeah, sure, game works well for picking up low self-esteem bar skanks. A great deal of hate is fueled by false premises. Concocting convenient scenarios, imagining the worst of your enemies, and reinterpreting their successes are a salve for the burned ego. Newsflash: your thin-skinned indignation is not my moral crisis. Rick Raw, Evan Mark Katz, Mark Manson and now Tucker Max all subscribe to this. For the most part they need to because it serves their revenue model by pandering to their largely female and feminized male readerships. They’re uncomfortable with the uglier… Read more »
@sun “LTR as goal is a sucker’s game” You can take the Blue Pill or the Red Pill. If you take the Red Pill you will see women as they really are, and thus will not try to have a LTR or have children. Our leading expert on Red Pill is happily married with one child, and has a very successful career. The person who claims to be leading appears to live with his parents and doesn’t have a regular job. Red Pill recommends you don’t do what either of these guys have done. That’s the pitch? How about: if… Read more »
@The Jin “Never gone around a club kissing all the girls? That doesnt happen often, but if you go out enough it does every now and then, you start with one and then chain the rest, they line up.” So you take a girl you have value to (A1) so she has female to male interest (A2), go for the makeout (A3) which because you have A2 she’s down for, and then that preselection you’re demonstrating (AKA DHV’ING) to the rest of the room has the other girls interested in you (A2) so that you can go for the makeout… Read more »
@ redlight @asd have you considered being honest with her? I started with honest, as in, “ya, we have chemistry, it’s cool, but nothing is gonna happen”…but then chemistry conflicted what I said honestly, so guess which one the broad wanted to believe? @ all I tell youse guys, the red pill is hard to swallow. FR: Was at my monthly country bar Sat. night. A tall HB7 blonde on a date with a handsome body builder asked me to dance. (Lol @ all those boys who think that being young man with a magnificent body trumps! being an old… Read more »
” Mystery may have been suicidal because he’d never learned to come to terms with the visceral nature of women, but it wasn’t because Game only works on low quality BPD women. Game works with all women, but Rick Raw and those others want to sell the idea that they can identify with ‘quality’ women who are immune to any Game by virtue of their higher intuition or whatever form of female flattery they think will separate themselves from other ‘dating coaches’.”
Lol…female flattery.
I wuz gonna opine, but Rollo got it covered.
@Yareally.
What’s actually going on here, are we actually very agressively agreeing with each other or something?
@jin “Never gone around a club kissing all the girls? That doesnt happen often, but if you go out enough it does every now and then, you start with one and then chain the rest, they line up. Ofc in that situation the girls ain’t taking it seriously its all just fun but you can usually pull one of them home at the death anyway. It’ll be with one you don’t really talk to until afterwards. Or maybe she gives you a handie in a corner or blowie in the toilets or w/e.” this right here and the fact that… Read more »
@jin
actually….
it’s like…
.01% chance of super duper alpha who has an experience most of the world just can’t even grok and 99.99% chance KJ….
polarized range, as they say.
but w/e, no one really disagrees with you about inner game. it’s just this tired ‘MM only works on bar skanks’ trope that is trotted out over and over again…
@AllYouFuckingBluePillBetaAFCsWhoDon’tWantToHoldYourselfResponsibleForNotGettingLaidAndWantToBlameItOnWomenAndHateThem – This: “The whole “girls don’t like smart guys” thing is the exact same shit as “oh I’m in introvert”. It’s just taking up a retarded victim identity because it’s a lot easier to pretend like you have some handicap that makes it impossible for you to succeed than it is to admit that you are too fucking LAZY to put the work in and to fucking SCARED to face the potential bad feels that hard work and putting your ego on the line requires.” I’ve had to tear myself apart to develop a Red Pill mindset – in… Read more »
Ok, just once again – what i actually said. MM works. It seems to work **best** on bipolar/drama type chicks IME.
This inherently assumes that it also works on other chicks.
At no point have I said either it doesn’t work or that it only works on bar skanks. Again, reading things beyond what is actually written in front of you.
@redlight
Notice I didn’t say having an LTR is bad. I said LTR as goal is a bad idea, particularly if you’re still asking questions on AskTRP.
A dude that’s got confidence, success, an abundance mentality, and a life that he’s happy with might decide to have one once he’s met a chick that would be a good compliment, but meeting each woman with LTR as goal in mind from the outset? Nah.
“How about: if you take the Red Pill you will see women for how they really are, you will be able to learn and develop the skills to lead relationships, from causal sex to family life, and get what you want out of life.” @redlight I love being a Dad, and I personally think it’s a fundamental experience of life. For that experience you need a baby momma. Red Pill is knowing GOING IN to that situation that the Disney fantasy of relationships doesn’t exist. There is no ONE. While you may always have a special respect for your baby… Read more »
@The Jin “It seems to work **best** on bipolar/drama type chicks IME” And you are WRONG no matter how many stars your surround your inaccuracy with. Go hit on higher quality HSE women and you’ll see that it works just the same if not better on them because only a high-value guy CAN treat them like MM says to. MM contains calibrating to the different types of girls (ie – don’t Neg a 7, don’t punish a girl who isn’t shit-testing you, switch to Comfort when you have Attraction established whether you get it immediately or an hour into the… Read more »
I’m wrong about my own experience am I?
How about you read what’s written for a
change?
This whole exchange has been me writing a few simple sentences and then you attacking raqdom strawmen you’ve made up yourself. I’m finding it a bit weird, frankly. And a bit pointless. Why write what won’t be read?
@Andy “Red Pill is knowing GOING IN to that situation that the Disney fantasy of relationships doesn’t exist. There is no ONE. While you may always have a special respect for your baby Mamma, any reciprocal feelings are conditional… IMO you can still get what you want out of life as long as what you want is realistic.” This. It’s fine to enter a risky business contract if you fully understand the risks and feel like you can execute the actions that you understand are required to minimize the risk. Like I can take a loan with a scary interest… Read more »
@The Jin
“I’m wrong about my own experience am I?”
Well ok, Yareally isn’t going to bother to read my actual sentences. I feel kinda bad about that, cos I admire your posts a lot.
I’ll go back to lurking, theres no point writing won’t won’t be read.
But really (ya, really) you have reading comprehension problems. Read the thread again in a few days and maybe you’ll see it then.
Peace out.
@Jin, One of the biggest dangers of the PUA ideal is that it does nothing to address the root problem of AFCism (for lack of a better term). AFCs don’t want to stop being AFCs. Largely, they just want their ONEitis (or their “dream girl”) to hook up with them long term and then drift back into a comfortable ‘just being themselves’. According to The Game even Mystery, with all his PUA prowess, degenerates into a simpering, borderline suicidal chump when he realizes that his PUA scripts do nothing in an LTR with Katya (his ONEitis). The most notorious PUA… Read more »
@The Jin
Hey, man. Got any hot sex tips you could share with us?
@Andy
” I love being a Dad, and I personally think it’s a fundamental experience of life. For that experience you need a baby momma. Red Pill is knowing GOING IN to that situation that the Disney fantasy of relationships doesn’t exist. There is no ONE. While you may always have a special respect for your baby Mamma, any reciprocal feelings are conditional… IMO you can still get what you want out of life as long as what you want is realistic. ‘
http://www.relatably.com/m/img/celebrated-memes/ejlaxr.jpg
“Ahh, I forgot, it’s just magic.” you didn’t forget shit because you didn’t get your dick wet until you were 23. I was balls deep in shaved magic unicorn pussy for a decade before you stuck it in the pink so don’t pretend you know what I’m talking about. and my best friend even beat me to it. He was fucking 12 when he lost his virginity. tell me again how a preinternet 12 year old with zero game has anything but his genes and some magic to make that happen. plus I see this shit everyday in real time… Read more »
Case in point about mystery method being advanced material. A newbie is going to have difficulty parsing out the nuance that it applies in a wider range than directly described. MM spends so much time talking about routines and going indirect, but not enough time explicitly saying “yeah you can actually skip all the stories and open with a kiss over your sub comms are tight enough.”
@yareally You can fuck a girl who you can’t even talk to, like a foreign chick where you don’t speak the same language, but even THEN you’re going to be making her feel Comfort through your subcommunications (eye-contact, smile, touch, etc). That’s funny, when I was ten years old I was in Portugal doing an international sporting event, I was the youngest kid there. Managed to pull this beautiful 12 year old Norwegian girl. We couldn’t speak a single word to each other but by the closing banquet I had her out back on the beach making out. My first… Read more »
@Agent P, YaReally, I don’t know if you caught my interview on Alan Currie’s show last Thursday, but the only real disagreement we had was about a Direct vs. Indirect approach. I’m gonna write a post about it since I didn’t think we had enough time to really explore it, but I wanted to pick your brains a bit. I think it’s interesting that a language barrier can be bypassed in seduction with effective subcommunications. Alan hates even the idea of subcoms because (at least I think he believes) it’s not masculine, or dominant or on the table enough. Just… Read more »
@jin
you said this:
““Essentially, Ricky Raws argument is that MM is designed -to find- damaged/bipolar/codependent chicks because that’s what Mystery was unconsciously looking for when he designed it.””
now you say this:
“Ok, just once again – what i actually said. MM works. It seems to work **best** on bipolar/drama type chicks IME.”
i mean the implication here is that MM screens FOR BPD. but now you’re saying that it works BEST on BPD chicks but also works generally.
” none of my Natural shit worked anymore.” and ” there’s nothing that can stop them because the girl made her choice.” and “while men are putting themselves through these rigmaroles women are sat there, passively as always choosing from what passes by and sparks their interest in the moment.” All of these concepts are based on the GIRL being the chooser. Girls can and DO CHOOSE… Most guys, and this is most naturals, are CHOSEN. However what GAME does is allow men to BECOME the chooser, through flipping the right attraction switches in the right order to MAKE the… Read more »
“MM spends so much time talking about routines and going indirect, but not enough time explicitly saying “yeah you can actually skip all the stories and open with a kiss over your sub comms are tight enough.”” Most guys haven’t watched any Mystery infield footage. there is not a lot out there. Try this… watch the White Party footage BEFORE you go through MM videos (the 7 or so out there for example)… THEN go back and watch the White Party footage again… Lo and behold it will all make so much more sense… You will see all the routines,… Read more »
http://d1p3t35jiqtse7.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2014/12/jesus.jpg
,i>”I can’t think of a single instance in a single industry where a guy with advanced knowledge gave away his trade secrets for free. usually it’s nothing but disinformation and bad leads, but your shit undoubtedly works so thanks again. you might be the only nonprofit value adding guy in history.”
Say again??? – JC
@fleezer “tell me again how a preinternet 12 year old with zero game has anything but his genes and some magic to make that happen” He’s running A1-S3 even if it’s not consciously. He’s not fucking girls without them feeling Comfortable or them having interest in him (A2), which happens when he has some kind of value to them (A1) even if it’s the chick’s weird value system instead of society’s standard value system. etc etc “I believe in game and in magic because I see them both.” I question your capacity to see shit through a game lens. Again… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzQ_0KIT3gU
Mystery believed in magic as well… [fyi – White Party out take]
… who’s this guy supposed to be?
http://d1p3t35jiqtse7.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2014/12/jesus.jpg
http://www.desicomments.com/wp-content/uploads/LOL-With-Emoji.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkX123MTq7o
Nice little clip of White Party open with Mystery commentary, ties into body language etc on this thread…
….. Did anyone read the link Sun posted?
http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/22/dream-girls-and-children-with-dynamite/
@fleezer, magic? That’s funny. I started banging chicks when I was 16, I had plenty of action before that, just never managed to penetrate anything other than their mouth at that point. After 16, it was not easy, but it was not hard. I was always playing in “my age range” and not being predatory / creepy with really young chicks. For me it was simple, social proof, decent looks, girls thought I was cute, then later thought I was “hawt”. I would build comfort, I did actually generally have a ZFG attitude and I accidentally had an abundance mentality.… Read more »
” All behavior is explainable, human beings don’t just do completely random shit.” why waste your time here? the central planners could put your genius to immediate use. “Companies and celebrities spend millions of dollars a year on marketing because human psychology is not “magic”, even in your unicorns.” no. they spend billions. and human psychology is very poorly understood or else these companies could spend far less by tailoring their ad spends to have maximum effect instead of just throwing shit against a wall and hoping something will stick. as a pua you are heavily invested in believing marketing… Read more »
Blax “who’s that…?”
Tyler? IDK… face is symmetrical…
@theasdgamer Need advice. Have talked with @HABD about this broad in the past. The penny dropped for me today. Not only does she have a huge crush on me, but I think she feels defrauded/scorned since she got no makeout when isolating with me three times. what’s your goal?… bang? = isolate and ‘complete’… no bang, but maintain social congruence/competence? = polite indifference = pretend she is a fatty/cockblock in your social circle…and ‘game’ (befriend) her anyway…lol…it’s just a GREAT opportunity for calibration practice…lol… no bang, burn it down (= zfg)?…just ignore her…and as long as she keeps giving you… Read more »
“Net net, I was running dumb teenager Cory Worthington game and it worked just fine.” same here. but there were other guys doing the exact opposite and still getting laid. “nice” guys. “bad” boys. everything in between. there is no pattern early on. ya says he can explain it with his formula even though he has no direct experience. I’m saying he can’t. I’m saying early on the breeding instinct is gene based and that young women have a sense for something that we can’t reduce to a formula. “… who’s this guy supposed to be?” the second son of… Read more »
YaReally The reason smart guys don’t end up with social intelligence is because they don’t know you can fucking LEARN it. EVERYTHING in society tells them “you either have it or you don’t” and “just be yourself”. In addition to Antifragile, which I am reading when I feel like it (following Taleb’s writing style and example), and The Time Travelers Wife, I’m now starting The Winner Effect by Ian Robertson. I’ve already read the summary of one experiment with children that demonstrated two different reactions to problem solving, either “I need to work harder on this” or “I can’t do… Read more »
Lol all these guys talking about natural alphas being supreme almighty gods makes me think you’re all chicks. Everyone has to learn how to do things. No one ever just “knows” anything. There was a study of musicians to see what made people naturally gifted. They wanted to know if some people were just plain better at certain tasks than others. The result? The best musicians practiced the most. The average musicians practiced an average amount. And the worst ones practiced — you guessed it — the least. Naturals are guys who for whatever reason (looks, having sisters, etc.) got… Read more »
@ fleezer Wow man, how many 5 hour energy drinks did you have today? Lol. Here’s my ( unrequested ) 2 cents – human beings are indeed predictable, up to a certain point. Once that point is reached, we venture into the ” individual ” side of things. From what I’ve learned here in the comments and the vids Ya posts, is that many pua’s are really focused on the mechanics of getting with women. I see no issue with using the mechanics method, but that leaves out the more organic stuff….which isn’t really important in the short term, but… Read more »
Fred Flanged up
F.I.R.E., the free-speech-on-campus advocacy group, is ready to file a formal legal challenge to the Office of Civil Rights “Dear Colleague” letter sent to colleges and universities in 2001
About time, too.
Pay attention, men: F.I.R.E. is totally worth supporting on this, send money to them to help. We men have a lot of talk in the androsphere, here is a definite way to push back against “Yes Means Yes Until It Doesn’t” in a real world manner.
Ante up. I’m in…
As a marketing and branding career professional for the past 20 years, I can assure you, human psychology and behavior is eminently predictable. In fact it’s so predictable that entire industries depend upon that predictability.
Forge This isn’t an either/or thing. I think that getting a person acting and experiencing is the crucial thing. The real world is gonna shove their weaknesses and insecurities in their face a heckuva lot sooner than watching GoT or playing WoW. Yeah, and taking it out of the single-man world & into the LTR / married man world — it winds up the same. Self improvement is a good thing and may well take the negative form at first, as in “STOP staring at TV for 4 hours every night” or “STOP putting down a sixpack every night because… Read more »
YaReally
My issue from the start has been the statement that “MM is designed to find damaged/bipolar/codependent chicks”. That’s not what it’s designed for, just like if a martial artist goes on a killing spree it doesn’t mean martial arts aren’t designed for self-defense.
It’s worse than that. “MM is designed to find damage/bipolar chicks” is like “Wing chun is designed to teach you how to beat up toddlers”.
This is right up at the border of “so stupid it’s not even wrong”.
A friend of mine just bought me a very nice hunting rifle for my birthday. Very expensive, very well made, very accurate, scope, etc.
Unfortunately he said it’s only reliably killed squirrels for him at close range, so I guess it’s kind of useless,…
Andy I love being a Dad, and I personally think it’s a fundamental experience of life. For that experience you need a baby momma. Red Pill is knowing GOING IN to that situation that the Disney fantasy of relationships doesn’t exist. There is no ONE. While you may always have a special respect for your baby Mamma, any reciprocal feelings are conditional… IMO you can still get what you want out of life as long as what you want is realistic. I can imagine legions of conservative feminists “traditionalists” puking as they read this, along with legions of “traditional” “conservative”… Read more »
“yeah sure, we all know that one girl that fucked some old dude. in my case it was a 13 year old that fucked her 40 year old mexican landscaper. guess what? she was not hot and a total head case and she had to fucking move because everyone knew about it. that is not the norm and never will be.” Gee I wonder why? Must be bc he’s ‘gross,’ not bc it wrecks her whole life. Having to move away from all your friends and start over is like a death sentence to most 13yo girls. I was getting… Read more »
@AR
“Neuroplasticity tells me the response to the stimulus is there, the desire for dopamine is there, so rewiring is a better option that resisting.”
Yes. Do things, don’t stop things. Most people get the order wrong.
The only exception is when you’re meditating. Then you need to just STOP and learn not to replace. But that’s a very specific discipline.
@Rollo
I’m sure kfg will take it. Endurance training takes a lot of protein.
@AR
In defense of his views, I could totally rip a toddler in half.