During last week’s Red Pill Monthly discussion I was presented with the question as to whether I agreed with women’s mandatory military conscription and my take on women serving in combat roles in the military. You can listen to my take on the livecast, but since I’d already had this post in the works I’ll detail it a bit more here.
Commenter Red light dropped this comment recently
The “Warrior Princess” myth
In making the 300: Rise of an Empire they realized they had a problem, the 300 were all men.
So now in the next movie we have Eva Green as a killing machine admiral of the Persian fleet. Wait, that’s not enough! Let’s end the movie with Lena Headey being a killing machine too. Just to make the warrior princess quota.
I happened to be listening to a feature interview on NPR on a long drive home about a week ago. The interview was of a semi-famous actress-turned-writer-turned-director who’s known for her feminist slant on storytelling and forwarding the narrative of the Feminine Imperative equalism.
So as not to focus too much on the individual and more on the messaging, I’ll just fast forward to a part of the conversation I thought was most salient:
“There was a part of the film (she’s producing/directing) where (SIW®, Warrior Princess cliché) gets into a fight with the ‘bad guy’ and the guys on the set thought that her reactions were unrealistic and no woman would do what she was for the reasons she was doing it. But the women on the set were like ‘Oh totally, I’d do that, hell I’d do worse if I was in that situation’.”
“I told the guys on set that if they really want to see gender equality they needed to embrace all sides of women. They needed to let go of all these preconceptions that women are nurturing or empathetic, and accept that we can be just as violent or hostile as men when we’re pushed this hard.”
I got to thinking about this part of the interview and I got an insight into the belief system of a woman ego-invested in the egalitarian / equalist narrative that had been taught to her since her formative years.
For women so saturated in equalism there’s a kind of convenient duplicity that expects a safe environment in which they can comfortably, and without risk of injury, play out the fantasy of not just being ‘as tough’, but tougher than men.
Nowhere is this safe fantasy more repeated than in the stories that the men and women of the equalist mindset construct for themselves with the expectation of loving mass consumption. I covered this from one angle in Storytelling and I focused primarily on the unbelievability of that narrative, but I didn’t really get into why that narrative is so appealing to that set.
As I mention there, in the world of ideas and possibilities, where all conditions and events are in the control of the storyteller, and all outcomes are scripted by the individual, what comes out in playing God is a revealing of the mindset (and the zeitgeist that created it) of the one in control of telling that story.
Fempowerment
When I wrote The Medium is the Message I primarily focused on observing women’s behaviors as the primary motivator of what their true ‘headspace’ is. However, it’s also important to consider this principle on a macro scale of societal influence. The influence women wish to exert on our collective social order is evidenced in the behavior of their storytelling and the storytelling of their proxies (i.e. men who willingly foment their message and fantasies).
White Knights and sympathetic Betas attuned by a lifetime of Blue Pill conditioning are easy foils in selling out their masculine interests if it means their identifying with the superiority fantasies of women is in someway intrinsically rewarding to them (i.e. potential sexual access with women).
But what are the fantasies women imagine themselves living out in their own storytelling? Since the rise of women’s Hypergamy as the societal priority this has been the convenience of female empowerment and the fantasy that it can be balanced with women intrinsic needs and drives as a human female.
The problem with equalism (as opposed to evolved intergender complementarity) is that it reliably creates piss poor men and women. Taken to its extreme, the ideal state of equalism is androgyny – and that’s a best case scenario. At worst, the concept that gender is a relative mental/social construct creates individuals who arbitrarily define their gender identity based on the opinions of others, or languish in a gender identity purgatory of confusion.
The greatest danger the ideology of an all-are-the-same egalitarianism poses to an individual is the belief that men and women can be fully self-contained and self-fulfilled entities mutually exclusive of each other. From the Warrior Princess perspective this equalist ideal of a ‘perfected’ woman is one in which the best aspects of the masculine and the feminine are represented in one female person.
Ignoring all realities to the contrary, this super woman, this Strong Independent Woman® archetype, is not a ‘woman’ at all. She’s an amorphous being that combines the strength and independence of conventional masculinity with the ‘womanness’ that makes those traits acceptable in a society that would otherwise ridicule a man for displaying them as emblematic of maleness.
In a male embodiment, this autonomous self-sufficient being is a laughable parody; an exaggerated cliché of all the ego insecurities we popularly believe men are predisposed to. But make this strong, independent being female and all the ridiculousness transforms into pride and inspiration. In such a pretext even women’s weaknesses and insecurities (the very traits that would make a man less of a man) become a source of that idealized strength – as a woman.
The truth of course is that this egalitarian ideal is unrealistic and at odds with the reality that women and men have both strengths and weaknesses for which the other is (should be) the complement to. No man is an island, but the Strong Independent Woman® is an entity apart.
False Pride, Real Danger
Now I say that this equalist ideal is a danger to women on whole, but collectively that ideal is a greater danger on a societal level. The reason being is that women have expectations from men while simultaneously believing they are functional equals in all ways to men. In the fantasy of storytelling, and the ubiquitous control it allows the creator, danger, outcome and conditions become mitigated for the sake of the story. The real danger comes when those stories become the template on which women (and men) will expect reality to follow.
Dalrock summed this up perfectly for me in a comment I’ve returned to for years:
These women don’t just want to build a better beta, they want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way they are trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit; they want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip their danger signals. Even better if he is a stranger from a strange land.
They wan’t this all to happen without giving up their freedom; they want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy, so they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral. They want to lose control to a string of strangers who have all of the hallmarks of very dangerous men, and they want a promise that this will always end well.
They want to know that this will be safe, without it losing the excitement of it feeling unsafe. They are telling men to build a sort of serial monogamy amusement park where they can ride the roller coaster and experience the fear of falling or crashing, while knowing that just behind the scenes grown ups are actually in charge and are responsible for them safely feeling unsafe.
One more thing. As I mentioned above they don’t want to be hemmed in. So instead of building an actual amusement park, they want roller coasters to spring up randomly in the same exact circumstances where the real danger they mimic would appear. They want to be driving their car on the freeway one instant, and the next experience the fear of careening out of control the next. They want to impulsively jump off the edge of the Grand Canyon and have a parachute appear and deploy at the last minute. And all they ask is your guarantee that all of this will be safe.
Even within the social parameters of what passes for egalitarianism today, there is still a want and expectation on the part of men to make the stories and fantasies of women’s male-equal strengths safe for them in a real context. A prime illustration of this can be found in the language of the women in the video I linked in The War Brides of Europe post.
Whether the show was contrived or not, there’s a fraying of ends going on in these women psyches. The inherently unsafe fantasies of women’s self-perceptions of male-equal strength are being contested by the reality of their situation. The men who were supposed to make the world safe for women’s indulgences of male strength fantasies are proving to be unreliable in affording them that security.
The roller coaster is suddenly real and the prospect of injury and death are real as well. On some level of consciousness they understand that their equalist’s notions of male-equal strength are in no way sufficient for survival in a real test. They are understandably nervous, but nervous in a way that belies the disillusionment of ego-investments they’ve based their lives around.
Women have relied so much on the behind-the-scenes security of men making the world safe for them that they begin to believe they are men’s functional equals. And not only functional equals, but more perfected, autonomously independent, beings that should be a match for the harsh realities their storytellers told them they ought to be.
In fact so dependent on this imagining are women that they expect the simulations of battle to accommodate their lack of capacity to handle the reality that they’ll lobby to alter the qualification necessary to engage with that reality. Thus, the physical requirements for combat suitability are reduced to a degree where women can feel like a success and maintain the storyteller’s archetype of themselves, thus sustaining their ego’s investment in it.
The problem then becomes one where men not only become responsible for women’s security as well as their own security, but also the maintenance of their feminine-primary self-image as a strong, independent, individual capable of achieving an equal measure among men while the real-world requirements mean life or death for them both.
The fantasy of female empowerment is not just the social expectation of men, but it is also the life-threatening liability of men who don’t (or can’t) perform it for them. Men literally risk their lives to maintain women’s equalist fantasy of independent strength apart from, and above that of men.
Vox , company of TheVerge and Racket 1000% SJW.
Make this,looks like Red Pill manual.
http://www.vox.com/2016/2/19/10996950/tinder-solid-dudes
https://medium.com/@priya_ebooks/solid-dudes-8c744d046b89#.f4sr4yeao
You know, every single day when I wake up and leave my house, I seriously question whether natural selection is a valid concept anymore.
It’s interesting to talk about, but look around you for about a week.
@kfg: You linked this: https://youtu.be/j1VcyNupbRs Perhaps, wrt your kinship bonding argument, you are mistaking the weight of the importance wrt to humanity-changes genomics-wise, occurring after the advent of agriculture vs. the hunting-gathering mode that occurred before. I would argue that we are still very much-so subject to genomics that were preponderant pre-agriculture. I’m really not sure what you are alluding to wrt the kinship selection concept, or what your intended use of it is wrt to this discussion (you haven’t provided enough for me to discern). Please read the link about E.O Wilson and Dawkins that I provided above, about… Read more »
@Blaximus – “You know, every single day when I wake up and leave my house, I seriously question whether natural selection is a valid concept anymore.” Yes – I agree – the Yuval Harari vid (posted in comments here yesterday, but which originally came here by way of Rugby) explains so much, about a meta-level occurring for humanity, beyond darwinian selection, with regards to the power of the human narrative (or story-telling and myth-making abilities) so as to powerfully shape human affairs to such a degree, it seems in some ways it is surpassing the power of darwinian selection wrt… Read more »
Couch it in all the Eckhart Tolle you want, egalitarianism is a product of your imagination just as much as The Secret is.
Field Report Thursday Night – originally posted on CH but heard Yareally doesnt post there anymore I got home from work dead tired. I was up Tuesday night til 3:00am and Wednesday night until 1:30am. I wanted to sleep. My buddy hit me up and wanted to go out sarging. I was fired up from watching RSD Julian’s manifesto and reading Yareally’s latest posts. I agreed and then tried to take a nap. Then plate #3 called me and said she wanted to see me. She came by fucked her then told her I already had plans for later. She… Read more »
@Edgar If Evan were a bad boy or billionaire or both, she would find herself suddenly, inexplicably loving cars, football, fishing, hiking, the outdoors, good food, and adventure. From The Predatory Female. The great, wise Reverend Shannon understood the hamster before the ‘Sphere developed the concept. “Q. What is the chameleon syndrome? A. A quasi-supernatural transformation, the chameleon syndrome is the predatory female’s unholy ability to become whatever the script calls for in “hooking” a man. She will adopt his viewpoints, his attitudes, his hobbies, and his dislikes. Her personality will change to suit his. She will enroll in classes,… Read more »
Blaximus
You know, every single day when I wake up and leave my house, I seriously question whether natural selection is a valid concept anymore.
Sure it is. Just have to bear in mind what the environment is selecting for…
I’m told that tame koi in a pond will grow to grotesque masses if they are fed continuously; their genes come from a world of scarcity, so there’s no such thing as “too much food” to the tiny fish brain.
Good thing people are so much smarter than fish…
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/58162844.jpg
@Blaximus – “You know, every single day when I wake up and leave my house, I seriously question whether natural selection is a valid concept anymore.”
—————————————-
Its not if it doesnt have random mutation to provide different things to select from; and even with a mechanism composed of both the result is always an entity with LESS information.
Just because something survives doesn’t mean its “better?”
You ever been to prison?
@ Anonymous Reader ” …Sure it is. Just have to bear in mind what the environment is selecting for…” Ha ha!! There’s the rub. I can’t see a pattern, or I don’t like the pattern I think is emerging. Would the environment actually select positively for weak and stupid? ..okay, ” stupid ” is a little strong and not quite accurate. Maybe my problem is that I kind of believed that environmentally, the ” strong ” survived, or something like that. But what I’m discerning in life, is that those most pliable to brainwashing are more likely to survive. Well,… Read more »
@ thwack
” Just because something survives doesn’t mean its “better?””
Ahh, there’s where I grapple with Natural Selection Theory and Egalitarianism and such. Is there a ” down-selection ” at work? If humans, aside from man-made manipulation, are not ” equal ” from a basic starting point, then how are we all subject to any kind of ” selection ” aside from an artificial one?
It makes me want a huge Roast Beef sandwich and a cold beer.
” You ever been to prison?”
Nah. I use cunning and guile and law abidingness to avoid that unnatural condition.
@Wild Man: “I would argue that we are still very much-so subject to genomics that were preponderant pre-agriculture.” Try pre-homo. You have oddly inverted our positions, you holding to one that has only existed for maybe a couple of thousand years, and is Asian, not European, in origin. The egalitarian mindset does not come from a trust mindset. Again the inverse is true. Grouping happens inverse to trust. The extreme egalitarian mindset is absolutely terrified of strangers. Grouping is to avoid having to meet any. The lone wolf can travel alone, ergo everyone he meets is a stranger, without psychic… Read more »
For some reason @Yareally missed this great recent video on PUA. It features negs, kino, and so much more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gui6fOa01G4&index=6&list=PLS_gQd8UB-hLgUryeauTRA0Wmuu25GxDb
Don’t forget you FRs!
In addition if you want to know what women want in a man here’s a small list:
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/weekend-update-leslie-jones-on-her-perfect-man/2985368?onid=148621#vc148621=2
okay, that was the wrong link, the PUA video is:
@Rollo – I don’t see much value in Tolle and “The Secret” is a joke Let me put it simpler terms. What do you think the mindset responsible for the exchange of ideas among the men here, is? And so what if the mindset is a product of my mind? That is what has being going on for us humans (probably for 70,000 years now as Harari suggests). It is interesting that the development of the potentiality of this particular mindest was most likely shaped by darwinian selection pressures, but we are living in an era now when this human… Read more »
okay, sorry about that again, I test the video link, it works fine, then when I post it we get Beyonce
here is a link that should work:
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/pickup-artist/2985370?onid=148621#vc148621=1
@Blaximus: ” down-selection ”
“Down” is meaningless.
“If humans, aside from man-made manipulation, are not ” equal ” from a basic starting point, then how are we all subject to any kind of ” selection ” aside from an artificial one?”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
” Rollo – wake up and smell the coffee or you might miss the main event and it promises to be spectacular. You are so well positioned for the front row seats if you would just consider some things. I’m rooting for you to have the front row seats man – you deserve it (and we all can then be closer to the real action thru you as well).”
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/776/Shocksmilie.png
@wildman The use of words like seems,fascinating,mind boggling,mindset,conflation,extremely cogent,plausible, leads me to believe you are engaged in philosophical discussion. Considering the killing of cheats in the dead of night could only be carried out by a cheat. This negates the up selection. Any group of people to far from a food source resort to cannibalism, is this also part of up selection? The only reason egalitarianism and equalism are so prevalent in modern society is because they don’t exist. If women and children weren’t soft men wouldn’t feel the need to protect them,or entertain some of their silly ideas.Probably not… Read more »
http://i.imgur.com/k1xT6AW.jpg
@Wild Man: ” . . . language that insinuates you have a cogent counter argument which you never provide –”
You have never provided a cogent argument. Your great walls of post-modernese-wise text are designed to avoid doing so.
It is the speech of your egalitarian mindset. It avoids cogency in order to avoid breaking trust. If nobody can figure out what the fuck you’re saying, nobody can take exception to it.
@ kfg ” It is the speech of your egalitarian mindset. It avoids cogency in order to avoid breaking trust. If nobody can figure out what the fuck you’re saying, nobody can take exception to it.” Coffee spray successful. Commence keyboard cleaning protocol. “Down” is meaningless. Perhaps. But it is relevant. : ) ” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species ” Okay, point taken. I’m talking about current human’s under man made ” induced ” environmental conditions ( re: fake ). It does appear to my layman’s eyeballs that there is a significant downward selection at work. Maybe it’s true that ” down ” isn’t… Read more »
#kfg – come-on – argue better. You said: “Try pre-homo. You have oddly inverted our positions, you holding to one that has only existed for maybe a couple of thousand years, and is Asian, not European, in origin”. The egalitarian is contingent on aptitude around the narrative (language aptitude) and so in that respect is not pre-homo (though other species do portray varieties of collaborative behavior – that is true – but I’m arguing that the egalitarian is a special case of collaboration contingent on other higher level cultural artifacts). The plausibility of my ice age description (and yes these… Read more »
Blaximus
I’m talking about current human’s under man made ” induced ” environmental conditions ( re: fake ). It does appear to my layman’s eyeballs that there is a significant downward selection at work.
Maybe you mean something like this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgenics
Let’s all go have some Brawndo! It’s got enzymes…
If you think of evolution as a river, it is always going “down,” that is to say following the path of least resistance.
There is no goal, no pinnacle. Man does not own the planet, the bacterium do, and they will continue to do so after the next asteroid strike wipes us out. They are far more anti-fragile than we are.
And then there are these little buggers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
If there is any perfection in evolution I think that’s about as close to it as you’re going to get.
“If you think extreme egalitarian mindset is akin to being terrified of strangers you are talking about something else . . .”
That’s the point.
@ Anonymous Reader
” Maybe you mean something like this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgenics”
OKAY!!!!
Now we’re cooking with biodiesel!!!!!
And, I knew Idiocracy was a favorite movie of mine for a useful reason.
Brawndo…. wut?
@wildman
To quote Clint Eastwood”in a perfect world you wouldn’t be here.”
“Let’s all go have some Brawndo! It’s got enzymes…”
Brawndo the Thirst Mutilator!</b It’s got enzymes…
*sniffle*
I love that movie.
@stuffinbox – you betray the egalitarian wrt your exchanges with others here (albiet not me, but SJF for instance). Are you not settling into even-handed exchanges with SJF based on mutual respect as permitted by developing trust? Your comment about the gay community – my sense is many gays have some feminine psychic attributes and so this egalitarian issue is much more clouded (as it is with woman too). I could quite easily be wrong about this gay-wise though because I haven’t given the gay thing too much thought nor talked to any gay men about this stuff. This egalitarian… Read more »
You know Wild Man, every time you post in a new thread you pretend that it’s the first time you’ve ever brought your metaphysical concepts of egalitarianism up on TRM:
http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/
You’ve read this before.
http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/comment-page-4/#comment-126474
FTFY
Had a buddy of mine that was on a local LeMans amateur team. They decided to do an Idiocracy themed car one year that was absolutely amazing. Brawndo sponsor stickers all over a gleaming yellow paintjob with a gaudy picture of the president on the hood. Whole team wore bright yellow Brawndo shirts as well. It was glorious.
“@Rollo – would you mind describing the precise flavor of the man/woman complementarity that you prescribe to and counsel for – ”
Rollo is not fashioning parts in order to build a model to plan.
He is assembling a jigsaw puzzle, picking up parts as he finds them and seeing how they fit together in order that the picture be revealed.
@kfg “If you think of evolution as a river, it is always going “down,” that is to say following the path of least resistance. There is no goal, no pinnacle. Man does not own the planet, the bacterium do, and they will continue to do so after the next asteroid strike wipes us out. They are far more anti-fragile than we are.” Of course there is no goal because there is no agency wrt to evolution, as it is currently understood. But your analogy as to “path of least resistance” is only partially helpful for an understanding of the phenomenon.… Read more »
@kfg
“Rollo is not fashioning parts in order to build a model to plan.
He is assembling a jigsaw puzzle, picking up parts as he finds them and seeing how they fit together in order that the picture be revealed.”
I agree the approach must be empirical. Precision with understanding the precise shape of the parts will provide for a higher resolution picture. More precision is called for here. Better questions begets more precision. In fact this is implied by the empirical cycle itself.
” . . . you must account for emergent properties –” Of course, and I have raised that issue in my suggestion that human social dynamics be war gamed in order to understand them better. It is also why Scray is at odds with me. He accuses me of making up a myriad of rules when I am doing nothing of the kind. I am describing properties which emerge from the rules. There is no rule that says machine gun nests beat lancers every damned time. That is an emergent property of the rules. “– the onus would therefore be… Read more »
@ Wild man …..the onus would therefore be on you to provide your alternate definition of the egalitarian. Not really. Some of the intra-gender dynamics of men you are discussing and trying to cram into an egalitarian mindset might be more properly described by evolutionary behavior described as the tactical virtue of honor among men. Perhaps the short version was provided by KFG back in a comment under Rollo’s essay Neofemininity when he pointed out (while referencing Jack Donovan’s Way of Men): “The way of women is the hive. All women belong to the hive simply by virtue of being… Read more »
@kfg – good to know you are with me then on the emergence. Wrt to the egalitarian definition – if you understand the definition you provided, I can’t see any reason why you wouldn’t understand the modified definition I use, which is a purposeful refinement of the definition you provided in 4 ways: Here again is my definition: “The belief that the perspective of the equal fundamental existential worth of individuals is a worthy perspective as mitigated by discernment around the expectation of reciprocity in this regards” Here is the rationale and intended meaning of the refinements: 1) “existential, fundamental”… Read more »
@Wildman Merriam Webster’s Collegiate egalitarianism 2:a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people redundancy 1:see redundant I don’t advocate removing the inequalities between SJF and myself , there are many I can assure you. Although I do respect his human condition, and marksmanship. As of yet I haven’t found any reason to put any more trust in him than absolutely necessary. The suggestion to recruit male gays to defeat feminist egalitarianism as they would be more apt to be heard, was an attempt at humor. As I have been given many bumb steers in my life feminism being… Read more »
@SJF – the egalitarian is more elemental than honor. Think about it. If you believe others are the same as you in the way I defined, it implies high self-respect and an expectation of that in others, and mutual respect. Donovan’s ideas about honor naturally flow from this elemental egalitarian concept. But then he goes on about things like courage and is is far too romantic in his views of things for my liking, and this bromance is not at all helpful to our current quandary wrt understanding women because some of these bromance ideas play right into the manipulation… Read more »
@Wildman Man shouldn’t expect reciprocity from a woman unless he demands it.
Sun Wukong
FTFY
Thanks. First I munged a Dorothy Parker quote, one of the most famous, now this…sigh…
Had a buddy of mine that was on a local LeMans amateur team. They decided to do an Idiocracy themed car one year that was absolutely amazing. Brawndo sponsor stickers all over a gleaming yellow paintjob with a gaudy picture of the president on the hood. Whole team wore bright yellow Brawndo shirts as well. It was glorious.
Massive envy!
@stuffinbox – I’m not advocating for removing inequalities between people except those that constrain trust (which therefore are the ones authored by personal agency – what attitude each person decides to take towards others). If that is done people will begin to see their inequalities as collective strengths instead of weaknesses. How do you define yourself in relation to your fellow man wrt to inequalities – by the way you describe, I am wondering if you see it as a matter of always seeing yourself in terms of your betters and your worsers. If so do you defer person-value-wise, to… Read more »
@stffinbox – “Wildman Man shouldn’t expect reciprocity from a woman unless he demands it.” Ya – true dat. And perhaps you fuck it up once you even insinuate reciprocity – I’m pretty naturally dominant but that is mitigated by my egalitarian thing and that is probably where I have fuck up with the ladies, when I think – “hey I will lead my lady to my frame, the frame sharing frame”, I think it confuses them. Weird. There is a lot I don’t know. I just want to get to the knowledge in a coherent fashion – is pretty much… Read more »
I didn’t realize how philosophical fucking women could get until I got here! Hahahaaaaa… Man! Perfect arguments, perfect counter-arguments. This place is great at explaining female behavior. But then the discussions go so deep. Talk about pussy under the microscope. Learning something new each day. I did not know that women could smell someone’s immune system before I started reading stuff in here. And I can see how important that is to a woman looking for a fuck. But some are all for what is “better” before we know what an immune system smells like. An immune system smells like… Read more »
@quixotic – good field report dude. Lots of good stuff.
One thought – did you try again for the kiss? You say you didn’t try to lead her by saying “come with us” etc, which is a good point, but you could have tried even a mini-bounce – like taking her to the bar (or smoking area, or whatever) and tried to kiss her in isolation away from her friend..you’d have had a much better shot.
But overall sounds like you’re doing really well and pushing your boundaries and aware of your issues.
“Donovan’s ideas about honor naturally flow from this elemental egalitarian concept.” Honor is the social currency of elite hierarchy. It is earned through individual effort. Egalitarian despises honour and forms mobs to collectively curb stomp it wherever it is detected. Warriors have honour. Grass eaters have none. Lions behave as if they understand honor, antelope as if they do not. Honour raises individuals to the heights of the possible. Egalitarian lowers the group into the muck of the lowest possible denominator. Honour: “I stand alone before you. Judge me. Egalitarian: “I am part of a collective. Don’t you dare judge… Read more »
Honor versus egalitarian:
That was brilliantly summarized, kfg.
Wild man,
Maybe you should look into having electro-convulsive therapy.
It re-arranged Robert Pirsig’s brain connections enough to let him argue that the “Metaphysics of Quality” (some concept he made up) is a better lens through which to view reality than the traditional Dvaita/dualistic subjective/objective mindset found in the West and originated in East. (You know, all those previous Greek philosophers didn’t know what they were doing)
And then he wrote a cool book. Of course it did change his personality. (The ECT that is.)
“That was brilliantly summarized, kfg.”
If I could come sit with (or bike next to) KFG for a half-hour in real life, my verbosity would probably be cured.
Or maybe I should try electro-convulsive therapy.
I feel better saying that. I’ve never intentionally self deprecated here before. (I certainly have defecated a lot of words at times.)
My way of honoring the hierarchy here.
And I’m certainly not egalitarian, because I’m way to judgmental for that to happen.
The egalitarian is often accused of hypocrisy, because while it refuses to be judged, it is hyper-judgemental.
What it judges is conformity.
@Wild Man In my experience , the inequalities that constrain trust are generally fear based. There are two types of fear the fear of losing what we have and the fear of not getting what we want. The less capable manipulate these fears from the bottom up,like sycophants. While the ruling class manipulate these fears from the top down to avoid mutiny , divide and conquer. This can be seen as both personal and non personal agency. The collective strength of a group is enforced or provided by a leadership that doesn’t turn away from the whole picture.That recognizes both… Read more »
@KFG, SJF, Wild – Compelling discussion, and a necessary one. Wild, I think you miss something about Yuval Noah. When he discusses how socialism arises as a myth/narrative in response to the industrial revolution, he does so without respect to the ideas about group selection from E. O. Wilson and Dawkins that you cite. What he may not realize is that a materialistic assumption has crept into his analysis that isn’t a sound basis for analysis. Materialism is reductionist and predictive of nothing yet he seems to be in thrall of it intellectually. I think you are doing something similar… Read more »
“There are two types of fear the fear of losing what we have and the fear of not getting what we want.”
Fear of leopards, which tend to attack from above and behind, should not be discounted as extinct.
Wild will only move the goal post on you here (much in the same way InsanityBytes does) by claiming “No True Egalitarian” would do this by his definition of egalitarianism.
@Wild Man Te-Tao Ching Ma-wang-tui text chapter 38 exerpt The highest virtue is not virtuous;therefore it truly has virtue. The lowest virtue never loses sight of its virtue;therefore it has no true virtue. The highest virtue takes no action,yet it has no reason for acting this way; The highest humanity takes no action,yet it has no reason for acting this way; The highest righteousness takes action;and it has its reasons for acting this way; The highest propriety takes action,and when no one responds to it,then it angrily rolls up its sleeves and forces people to comply. Therefore, when the way… Read more »
Just to keep things in perspective here: @Rollo – I have some psychological reasons for adopting the egalitarian view. I had an existential meltdown when I was 12 and nearly went insane. As a way out my terrible quandary, I ended up carefully weighing out evidence for the egalitarian view with the solipsistic view, that my mind was demanding I consider. The evidence for the egalitarian is not as strong as you would think, but that is how I ultimately pulled myself away from the brink of insanity (or perhaps left unresolved that may have morphed into psychopathy), by forcing… Read more »
@Rollo – I realize that, and am not writing solely for him. That’s why I also ask him to show where egalitarianism has utility and actually exists and explains behavior at any level – ever. If it’s this emergent property driving group selection and individual evolution, I want something observable. He’s going way meta and I just don’t see any evidence that egalitarianism exists as anything more than a meme created by a new ingroup.
It’s funny, I read E.O. Wilson’s stuff extensively and never came away with the impression that egalitarianism has emerged or is driving human development.
@ KFG The fear of leopards,can be categorized in the fear of losing what we have, life.
@ All well it would appear that wild mans last response was at 9:15 pm so he has a lot of reading to do to catch up.
Between this thread and Emily and Liz’s catfight in the last one I woke up to 72 fresh comments this morning.
This is the discussion egalitarians have amongst themselves when they’re forced to acknowledge Darwinian reality:
@ Rollo
I am beginning to see reading between the lines, as solipsistic,narcissistic hamster spinning.
And engaging in discussions w/ one who consistently does so,like trying to catch a runaway power trowel. That can’t be done, and it spins to the point of imbalance and evetualy winds up on its top creating much damage to the work piece.
While this is very entertaining, the damage has to be repaired,so a good grip is important.
Thanks for your insight.
@Stuff in Box: Fear itself is only generated in the face of predation. Animals that have evolved without predation lack fear. You can walk right up to them, poke them in the nose, and they’ll just look at you quizzically.
Introducing house cats and brown rats into such an environment results in disaster for the natives.
Man appears to be unique in being able to abstract and project his fear. So although the root remains fear of predation generated in the hindbrain, man’s fear of death is generated in the forebrain.
@KFG: Fear is also generated in the face of disaster, this can relate to not getting what we want or losing what we have.
@Stuff in Box:
It can also be generated by exercise. The hindbrain response seems to be commutative.
@ KFG
Interesting; This brings to mind one of the symptoms of heart attack. A sense of impending doom.
Also a fear of losing what we have or not getting what we want.
Idiocracy . . .
The more intelligent and rational is a man, the less likely he is to breed. As HL Mencken wrote, the superior man is easy to spot in that he either doesn’t marry or marries when he’s older. Is it really a mystery why nearly all the great philosophers never married and reproduced?
This is just so spot on – Karen Straughn and Steven Crowder on women in combat.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAcYrf6pbLw&w=560&h=315%5D
I apologise for this off topic (and long) post. I would like TRM’s take in an ongoing exchange with my wife about my effort to red-pill our teenaged son. This email exchange began when she wanted to learn about what exactly I was teaching our son about masculine issues in the real world. So, I gave her the link to “The best of Year One” as the foundation of my guidance. It’ fascinating how she cherry picked issues dear to her and the stated goal of helping our son become a “better man” became secondary. Heres her assessment of Rollo’s… Read more »
HL Mencken should not under rate the experience and wisdom that can be attained in reproductive endeavors. Although, Ideocracy FN LMAOf!
Wow – just lookin in and see some interesting comments directed my way – I got some cool music shit I’m doing today and got to get going so maybe I can get back to this tomorrow, but I can’t resist a few short comments here: @kfg (and Liz) – my impression is we be warriors. That is probably the most succinct description of what a human is. Who the fuck are the grass eaters? (not no peoples l I know – you mus be deluded about what the fuck a human being is). @scribblerg – your writing is pretty… Read more »
“I would like TRM’s take in an ongoing exchange with my wife about my effort to red-pill our teenaged son.”
OK.
” I gave her the link to “The best of Year One” . . .”
Big mistake. Big. Huge.
@ Stultus sum Good luck catching the handle of that runaway power trowel.
Have been in the same discussion and just had to let it go,planning how to fix things later.
@stultus sum
Dude, your first mistake was talking about fight club. The silver lining is that the target is not your wife, but your son. It will be a whole lot easier to rationally convince your son of the truth of red pill stuff than it would be with your wife. Does your son read this site yet? If not, send him a link, and don’t tell your wife you sent it to him. All she’ll do is try to shame him about it.
@Stultus Sum: you talked about Red Pill with your wife? That is very rarely a good move.
Rollo can pull it off obviously and probably even benefits from his wife knowing about it explicitly, but I think for the majority of Red Pill men, even those with strong Frames will lose Frame or Power (rather than gain it) with that kind of disclosure.
“Who the fuck are the grass eaters?”
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/91840873-women-working-in-rice-paddy-field-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=ZNI7dILXXmGCIWSuHHXg212PKdJpUVjfpGcIy9fm3ezf3jwlgbQEKL4j7B1lPHbP
@Stultus Sum
You don’t talk about fight club. I hope she doesn’t show up here. Maybe a link to TRM to your son might have been more helpful for him, and us. Your wife now has a mission wrt to your son….negging the RP, and has a lot more help doing so. You don’t talk about fight club.
Thanks for the insight. And yes, I agree that informing my life long feminist wife about red-pill is going to cause grief.
But you know what?…I don’t give a fuck!
Women have manipulated me all my life and my response has always been to acquiese. No more! I’m going to fight this bullshit and begin the battle in my own living room.
@Stultus Sum
I’m sorry that for the moment you seem to care more about winning an argument with a feminist than about building a man. I was once in your shoes, and you probably won’t live to see yourself succeed at either.
@Stultus Sum: maybe you should GAF, particularly because it is not just you at stake. If the goal was to help your son, as Longgone points out, you just gave advance warning to the “enemy”.
She may just genuinely think your son has better chances with her ideology, and you suspect yourself your wife is more concerned about ideology (even if she suspects your son has better chances otherwise).
You KNEW she was a life long feminist – and still gave her an heads up!
The drama continues… Her: Like I said your recommendations for his BEHAVIOR were fine. So we are on the same page there. But I DO care about perpetuating false beliefs about women. I’m disappointed that you don’t take my knowledge seriously StultusSum: I do value your knowledge. What I don’t value is when “theory” bears little resemblance to the “reality” our only son is facing. Her: An explanation for why girls behave the way they do: they are immature and don’t know better. They think putting out will secure them love. They are stupid. Misled. Convinced that their only worth… Read more »
@Stultus Sum
“More to come, I’m sure.”
Sigh…I suppose so, but would rather be reading your son’s FR’s, than yours post-divorce, however that’s what we’ll probably get. Feminists never lose arguments, they just run off and claim victory/victimhood. BTW get used to your son not returning your phone calls, emails or texts and spending the holidays w/ Ms Sum post-split. You don’t talk about fight club.
Be careful when using logic and reason with your woman. She isn’t engaging you to further her understanding of the world. You probably cannot convince her TRP is real. Your communications with her should primarily be directed not toward the frontal lobe but to the seat of her emotions. What I might have said — Her: Like I said your recommendations for his BEHAVIOR were fine. So we are on the same page there. But I DO care about perpetuating false beliefs about women. I’m disappointed that you don’t take my knowledge seriously StultusSum: Disappointed? I’m not here for your… Read more »
@scribblerg Also note the vicious infighting which goes on in any group that claims to be egalitarian Oh dear lawdy so much this. If there’s one observation I’ve had lately, it’s of how incredibly brutal SJWs are to their own. If you can’t actually claim a victim status that brings you down to their level (i.e. you’re a straight white successful male) but you claim to support them and stay close to them, at some point you will find a knife lodged in your back. I think it’s part of the reason my buddy that stopped talking to me so… Read more »
@Bachelorocles
“…..[wink at her in a very flirty way]……[½ grin] Stop it!! Those little sluts love sex!!”
In my experience long-married feminists aren’t very receptive to flirting or whatever vestiges of game their beta possesses and ,especially if the argument is being conducted in front of their son, she will be forced to escalate and shut down any overt gaming by Mr Sum…. bad business.
@Longgone I’ve never been married. So getting marriage advice would be like getting it from OJ lol That said, in my experience, all women love a strong masculine presence, even feminists. A feminist lawyer once told me she loves it that could kick her ass in any argument, dominate her in bed, and I don’t take shit from her. Ever watch a liberal woman’s face light up when she sees Trump on TV? Our new friend has three choices: continue in domestic slavery, bust out of it through game, or divorce (very expensive in the Gynocracy known as the USA)..… Read more »
@Longgone Let me give you some background. Maybe it will clarify my position. As my wife stated in her email, she has higher social standing and brings home the bacon in this household. Thisnis true. The traditional roles that terrify our brothers in fucked up marriages is reversed in my situation. If push comes divorce, alimony and child support checks will be arriving in my mailbox NOT hers. So, despite her loyalty to Femme causes, she knows better than to rattle that cage. As for my son’s red pill training, his eyes are now open and there is no going… Read more »
@Rollo – Emily and Liz had a catfight? Meow, I’m headed their straightaway!
@Rollo – Can you drop a link to the Liz-Emily catfight? I went back and can’t find it, thanks.
@scribblerg
I’d love to see that too.
@Stultus – I assume your wife is post wall, and a ‘strong, independent woman’, yes? Consider how ego invested she is in her equalism and in fact, and her meritorious superiority. You see, it’s not just that she’s your equal, she’s outperformed you on masculine terms in her eyes. She’s telling you that she’s a better man than you are. Hint. Stop talking about this. Say nothing, just smirk. Game her and when she’s all wet and wild for you, and after reviewing YaReally’s squirting advice and she’s squirted and had massive orgasms, then maybe say, “Perhaps there is something… Read more »
How to get the dye out of your warm, fuzzy, itchy and somewhat constricting [feminist wool sweater].Written speccificaly for the textile care challenged rational man. 1; reconsider your taste in color,then think of the origin of the dye. 2; reconsider your taste again, then concoct a solution of hot water, bleach, tide and more hot water. 3; reconsider your taste and the value of the sweater, then fully submerse sweater in solution and agitate thoroughly. 4;Remove wet soggy droopy sweater from solution, color will lighten in the drying process. 5; Hang out in sun to dry, not legal in some… Read more »
Cat fight on end of war brides.
@scribblerg
Thanks for the advice, scribblerg. But I’m going to win this War one way or another.
The day will come (and maybe soon) that I can no longer influence my children. I’m turning the corner on 50 and none of my immediate family (mom, dad, brother etc) ever reached 53. So, I’m going to fight this bullshit with whatever time I have left.
What I’ve learned so far on TRM isn’t just an intellectual curiousity, to me, it’s a matter of life and death. I’m going to save my little corner of the World starting now.
@Wild Man:
http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/06/the-red-pill-balance/#comment-134736
@Stultus http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/30/secret-of-the-red-pill/ There’s a huge temptation for newly unplugged men or men who’ve simply had enough of being controlled by women and the feminine imperative for so long to want to dump the entirety of their Red Pill awakening on the women they deal with in life. They generally do this in exasperation or in some effort to make a declaration of independence from women, but it only has the effect of turning women to the long time tropes the imperative has prepared for them for most of their lives. You could easily counter every one of your wife’s tropes… Read more »
StultusSum: “**What (our son) should do: be strong and not let the bitches and assholes get him down. Be kind. Be respectful but don’t take any shit.**” Show me in the literature i sent you where it states the “opposite” of what you just recommended? Her: It doesn’t. You reacted against the other stuff without hearing where I agreed with you. He can behave in a strong and compassionate way without believing the crap about hypergamy, etc. It’s not THEORY. It is reality from a different perspective. Not everyone lives reality in the same way. My comments about getting groped… Read more »
Thanks Rollo. I will do as you suggest. I admire your work far and above all other characters in the manosphere. I hope those closest to you know how important your contributions are making the World a better place.
@Stultus Sum From your clarification, you seem to be on steadier ground wrt your son than your initial comment would indicate. Congratulations on that. I agree with scribbler though, and the less said re TRP the better. In my opinion and experience, gaming a feminist, especially post-wall is more of a challenge than it’s worth, more so if she has the power in the relationship (needs you less). I defer to your knowledge of divorce settlements in your state where the wife is the primary income, but wouldn’t be so sure she wouldn’t trade up anyway depending upon the age… Read more »
@ StultusSum When I was busy steering my first marriage onto the on-ramp of divorce highway, one of the best tools in my fuck up tool box was Sharing My Thoughts with my wife. Because of the differences between the way men’s and women’s brains process information ( rational vs emotional ), a man does himself ZERO favors in telling a woman his views on anything outside of some domestic stuff. Contrary to popular opinion, there is no need to ” talk it over with the wife “. In my current marriage I will admit to being a bit of… Read more »
Sun – let her read the Sandberg (feminist) quote about A/F hypregamy. If she sees this from a feminist mouth, then what can she say then?
At any rate, it’s not about logic, it’s about feelz and the kids. Using a mom’s love and getting her feelz on your/son’s side should be your goal. It’s shouldn’t be a feminzi vs. TRP deal, but what’s best for your sons’ emotional health and prospects in life. Don’t get into a Miss Emily argument with her.
Fyi, I’ve added my two cents for Emily at the end of the Euro War Brides post. What I never shared with anyone is that I actually have more pics of her, lol, from her Badoo profile. Out of kindness I didn’t post them but she’s on warning to behave or else. I do want to offer something here about Emily though. While she’s quite arrogant, if you consider her carefully, I think she is trying to improve morally and in her conduct, at least it would seem that way. When she’s not insulting all of us, she does seem… Read more »