The Warrior Princess

warrior-princess

During last week’s Red Pill Monthly discussion I was presented with the question as to whether I agreed with women’s mandatory military conscription and my take on women serving in combat roles in the military. You can listen to my take on the livecast, but since I’d already had this post in the works I’ll detail it a bit more here.

Commenter Red light dropped this comment recently

The “Warrior Princess” myth

In making the 300: Rise of an Empire they realized they had a problem, the 300 were all men.

So now in the next movie we have Eva Green as a killing machine admiral of the Persian fleet. Wait, that’s not enough! Let’s end the movie with Lena Headey being a killing machine too. Just to make the warrior princess quota.

I happened to be listening to a feature interview on NPR on a long drive home about a week ago. The interview was of a semi-famous actress-turned-writer-turned-director who’s known for her feminist slant on storytelling and forwarding the narrative of the Feminine Imperative equalism.

So as not to focus too much on the individual and more on the messaging, I’ll just fast forward to a part of the conversation I thought was most salient:

“There was a part of the film (she’s producing/directing) where (SIW®, Warrior Princess cliché) gets into a fight with the ‘bad guy’ and the guys on the set thought that her reactions were unrealistic and no woman would do what she was for the reasons she was doing it. But the women on the set were like ‘Oh totally, I’d do that, hell I’d do worse if I was in that situation’.”

“I told the guys on set that if they really want to see gender equality they needed to embrace all sides of women. They needed to let go of all these preconceptions that women are nurturing or empathetic, and accept that we can be just as violent or hostile as men when we’re pushed this hard.”

I got to thinking about this part of the interview and I got an insight into the belief system of a woman ego-invested in the egalitarian / equalist narrative that had been taught to her since her formative years.

For women so saturated in equalism there’s a kind of convenient duplicity that expects a safe environment in which they can comfortably, and without risk of injury, play out the fantasy of not just being ‘as tough’, but tougher than men.

Nowhere is this safe fantasy more repeated than in the stories that the men and women of the equalist mindset construct for themselves with the expectation of loving mass consumption. I covered this from one angle in Storytelling and I focused primarily on the unbelievability of that narrative, but I didn’t really get into why that narrative is so appealing to that set.

As I mention there, in the world of ideas and possibilities, where all conditions and events are in the control of the storyteller, and all outcomes are scripted by the individual, what comes out in playing God is a revealing of the mindset (and the zeitgeist that created it) of the one in control of telling that story.

Fempowerment

When I wrote The Medium is the Message I primarily focused on observing women’s behaviors as the primary motivator of what their true ‘headspace’ is. However, it’s also important to consider this principle on a macro scale of societal influence. The influence women wish to exert on our collective social order is evidenced in the behavior of their storytelling and the storytelling of their proxies (i.e. men who willingly foment their message and fantasies).

White Knights and sympathetic Betas attuned by a lifetime of Blue Pill conditioning are easy foils in selling out their masculine interests if it means their identifying with the superiority fantasies of women is in someway intrinsically rewarding to them (i.e. potential sexual access with women).

But what are the fantasies women imagine themselves living out in their own storytelling? Since the rise of women’s Hypergamy as the societal priority this has been the convenience of female empowerment and the fantasy that it can be balanced with women intrinsic needs and drives as a human female.

The problem with equalism (as opposed to evolved intergender complementarity) is that it reliably creates piss poor men and women. Taken to its extreme, the ideal state of equalism is androgyny – and that’s a best case scenario. At worst, the concept that gender is a relative mental/social construct creates individuals who arbitrarily define their gender identity based on the opinions of others, or languish in a gender identity purgatory of confusion.

The greatest danger the ideology of an all-are-the-same egalitarianism poses to an individual is the belief that men and women can be fully self-contained and self-fulfilled entities mutually exclusive of each other. From the Warrior Princess perspective this equalist ideal of a ‘perfected’ woman is one in which the best aspects of the masculine and the feminine are represented in one female person.

Ignoring all realities to the contrary, this super woman, this Strong Independent Woman® archetype, is not a ‘woman’ at all. She’s an amorphous being that combines the strength and independence of conventional masculinity with the ‘womanness’ that makes those traits acceptable in a society that would otherwise ridicule a man for displaying them as emblematic of maleness.

In a male embodiment, this autonomous self-sufficient being is a laughable parody; an exaggerated cliché of all the ego insecurities we popularly believe men are predisposed to. But make this strong, independent being female and all the ridiculousness transforms into pride and inspiration. In such a pretext even women’s weaknesses and insecurities (the very traits that would make a man less of a man) become a source of that idealized strength – as a woman.

The truth of course is that this egalitarian ideal is unrealistic and at odds with the reality that women and men have both strengths and weaknesses for which the other is (should be) the complement to. No man is an island, but the Strong Independent Woman® is an entity apart.

False Pride, Real Danger

Now I say that this equalist ideal is a danger to women on whole, but collectively that ideal is a greater danger on a societal level. The reason being is that women have expectations from men while simultaneously believing they are functional equals in all ways to men. In the fantasy of storytelling, and the ubiquitous control it allows the creator, danger, outcome and conditions become mitigated for the sake of the story. The real danger comes when those stories become the template on which women (and men) will expect reality to follow.

Dalrock summed this up perfectly for me in a comment I’ve returned to for years:

These women don’t just want to build a better beta, they want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way they are trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit; they want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip their danger signals. Even better if he is a stranger from a strange land.

They wan’t this all to happen without giving up their freedom; they want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy, so they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral. They want to lose control to a string of strangers who have all of the hallmarks of very dangerous men, and they want a promise that this will always end well.

They want to know that this will be safe, without it losing the excitement of it feeling unsafe. They are telling men to build a sort of serial monogamy amusement park where they can ride the roller coaster and experience the fear of falling or crashing, while knowing that just behind the scenes grown ups are actually in charge and are responsible for them safely feeling unsafe.

One more thing. As I mentioned above they don’t want to be hemmed in. So instead of building an actual amusement park, they want roller coasters to spring up randomly in the same exact circumstances where the real danger they mimic would appear. They want to be driving their car on the freeway one instant, and the next experience the fear of careening out of control the next. They want to impulsively jump off the edge of the Grand Canyon and have a parachute appear and deploy at the last minute. And all they ask is your guarantee that all of this will be safe.

Even within the social parameters of what passes for egalitarianism today, there is still a want and expectation on the part of men to make the stories and fantasies of women’s male-equal strengths safe for them in a real context. A prime illustration of this can be found in the language of the women in the video I linked in The War Brides of Europe post.

Whether the show was contrived or not, there’s a fraying of ends going on in these women psyches. The inherently unsafe fantasies of women’s self-perceptions of male-equal strength are being contested by the reality of their situation. The men who were supposed to make the world safe for women’s indulgences of male strength fantasies are proving to be unreliable in affording them that security.

The roller coaster is suddenly real and the prospect of injury and death are real as well. On some level of consciousness they understand that their equalist’s notions of male-equal strength are in no way sufficient for survival in a real test. They are understandably nervous, but nervous in a way that belies the disillusionment of ego-investments they’ve based their lives around.

Women have relied so much on the behind-the-scenes security of men making the world safe for them that they begin to believe they are men’s functional equals. And not only functional equals, but more perfected, autonomously independent, beings that should be a match for the harsh realities their storytellers told them they ought to be.

In fact so dependent on this imagining are women that they expect the simulations of battle to accommodate their lack of capacity to handle the reality that they’ll lobby to alter the qualification necessary to engage with that reality. Thus, the physical requirements for combat suitability are reduced to a degree where women can feel like a success and maintain the storyteller’s archetype of themselves, thus sustaining their ego’s investment in it.

The problem then becomes one where men not only become responsible for women’s security as well as their own security, but also the maintenance of their feminine-primary self-image as a strong, independent, individual capable of achieving an equal measure among men while the real-world requirements mean life or death for them both.

The fantasy of female empowerment is not just the social expectation of men, but it is also the life-threatening liability of men who don’t (or can’t) perform it for them. Men literally risk their lives to maintain women’s equalist fantasy of independent strength apart from, and above that of men.

3.7 3 votes
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

656 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
10 years ago

I think I can sum up Blaximus’ view on women:

hoellenhund2
10 years ago

@scribblerg I would call that about average size most places around here. Sad part is, unlike most of them she looks like she would be reasonably good looking with a healthy diet and an exercise routine. Damn shame. The problem with curvy women (or moderately fat women, or whatever you want to call them) is that they tend to become fat or even obese in their 40s. Fat, and not in any attractive way. And they tend to become even fatter, or morbidly obese, if they have children. On the other hand, women that are really slender in their 20s… Read more »

hoellenhund2
10 years ago

Armenian female militia members from 1895:

comment image

Yeah, I bet you all have boners now.

Divided Line
10 years ago

I think we should exempt men from the draft and let women fight bogus wars for corporate profit exclusively. Does anybody think the women of this society are worth dying for?

Divided Line
10 years ago

@leelee “I’ve thought about this a lot. Like, if the warrior princess is supposed to be this feminist symbol or repudiation of traditional notions of femininity, why is she always so devastatingly beautiful & slim? I think she’s like this ultra-symbol of female domination over men — first she dominates men with her beauty, and then she dominates them with her mythical physical and mental strength. She literally has no weakness, no interdependence, no room for complementarity — like you said, she’s fully self contained. And amazing point about the SIW being a celebration of that which pertains to a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

@Wild Man: “…. is that a Shaggy tune?” Norman Span, aka King Radio, from the 30’s. It was a big hit for Harry Belafonte in the 50s and became part of the Grateful Dead’s standard repertoire in the 80s. “May as well blame it on muh dick.” That’s why I appended the issue of cats, which we may have tamed, but have never fully domesticated in the sense that we have other animals. It really can be difficult to tell sometimes whether we are employing cats for our purposes, or they are employing us for theirs. There is a balance… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

“@Divided Line”

Not enough coffee yet. @Hoellend Hund.

Mad Kalak
Mad Kalak
10 years ago

@redlight Yes, I know the difference between movies and reality. Do you think when I watched 300 I thought the Spartans fought with no armor but just their ripped abs? Duh, you mean the whole series is only based on reality and it’s amped up for ticket sales. I was just pointing out that they didn’t just pull that character out of thin air, that it had its basis in a real life woman. The myth of the Amazons was likely from the Greeks seeing the occasional women warriors from barbarian tribes, likely the Scythians. How or why those women… Read more »

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

Regarding the SI fat chick:

IMO, disgusting. How hard is it to not eat the candy bar? Seriously. Just. don’t. eat. the candy bar. lol.

In all honesty though, I just feel like these plus size models are emblematic of the “I’m a sexy special snow flake princess because I have a vagina, culture.” I think that is a big reason why I find it disgusting.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
10 years ago

Another thing , had to straighten the wife out this morning.She was complaining bc one of the guys from my boom days flat crew is building a storage facility next to where she takes her breaks. And He keeps bugging her .Had to explain to her this man is a brother in arms and tell her to treat him good.He would fight for her and has.
Solipsistic rude bitch.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
10 years ago

Time to make the doughnuts lurk you later.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Divided Line

“I think we should exempt men from the draft and let women fight bogus wars for corporate profit exclusively. Does anybody think the women of this society are worth dying for?”

There’s a reason women and middle aged men aren’t wanted to fight these wars: they are far too intelligent to be brainwashed into sacrificing their lives for the profits of oil companies and the arms industry. Young men are more easily brainwashed.

scribblerg
scribblerg
10 years ago

@Wild – The blame game is indeed “stoopid”. Cause and effect is important to understand though so a man can act rationally. I also try to keep in mind that what we are discussing here are hypotheses – the field of evo psych is in its early days. As well, the entire field of evolutionary biology and genetics is in a state of constant change and development. The point for me it to be empowered as a man and to embrace myself and my masculinity. The effect of the Blue Pill on me had been to alienate me from myself.… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
10 years ago

@KFG et all – Re: Moderation. Henrik Ibsen comes to mind, from An Enemy of the People: “Aslaksen. And now, as I am in this position, I should like to say a few brief words. I am a quiet and peaceable man, who believes in discreet moderation, and–and–in moderate discretion. All my friends can bear witness to that. Several Voices. That’s right! That’s right, Aslaksen! Aslaksen. I have learned in the school of life and experience that moderation is the most valuable virtue a citizen can possess– Peter Stockmann. Hear, hear! Aslaksen. –And moreover, that discretion and moderation are what… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

“As corny as it may sound, hope is necessary to thrive.” Although one’s odds improve dramatically if the hope is not entirely false. The old saying is; hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Not be taken literally, it’s a maxim. In pragmatic terms you don’t want to put most of your effort into preparing for the tails and the outliers.That will just waste most of your effort and under those conditions it really just boils down to every man winging it for himself as best he can anyway. So, hope for things turning out OK, but prepare… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

“I want them strung to exactly the tension which tunes them to the note being played – ”

You may find you have to vary their length and mass to accomplish that.

scribblerg
scribblerg
10 years ago

Morbid obesity is a huge health risk. There is a reason women consume a disproportionate amount of health care services in the U.S., even adjusted for ob/gyn issues. In fact, they are gluttons for health care services in general. Here are some of the risks of morbid obesity: Cardiovascular Disease (CVD) Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS) Chronic Venous Insufficiency (CVI) Daytime Sleepiness Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) Diabetes (Type 2) End Stage Renal Disease (ESRD) Gallbladder Disease Gout Heart Disorders Hypertension Impaired Immune Response Impaired Respiratory Function Infections Following Wounds Infertility Liver Disease Low Back Pain Obstetric and Gynecologic Complications Pain from… Read more »

contrarian
contrarian
10 years ago

When famine is reality-most of human history-chunky chicks are a sign of wealth. Now food is cheap. Thin became in-sign of self-control. But, siw and sjws have distorted that standard: DO NOT put limits on US. we be womynz with vagz. we are special. dont fat shame me. gimme a latte and a muffin. I look forward to watching feminutz dropping dead at kfc. awesome. go grrl. actually, i find it sad, stupid and deluded. more and more i understand the saudis and the taliban’s red lines. they may be crazed islamists but they be cunning bastards who know what… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

An oldie but a goody:

comment image

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

Perfect synopsis of the problems I have with “The Left”

https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/699859316707209216

scribblerg
scribblerg
10 years ago

@KFG – I have a new nickname for you. “Mr. Picayune”. Have a nice day.

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

It is not being picayune to point out that there is not one variable, but three.

Nor is it picayune to point out that when I am playing solo violin I can play all the “correct” notes, no matter what reference pitch it is tuned to, but when accompanied by a piano I must play some incorrect notes, even if I take my reference pitch from the piano.

The idea of a “correct” note has both an arbitrary and relative component to it.

Is This Thing On?
Is This Thing On?
10 years ago

I think what will happen in the military is somewhat obvious. Women will get into the infantry etc… They will be quickly promoted to positions that aren’t on the front lines. It will be both for quota reasons as well as to simply get them out of the way. Eventually critical mass will be reached and feminine nepotism will exert itself and the female heavy leadership will become even larger. In a generation we will have hordes of beta males being ordered to their deaths by the women in charge. Same as it ever was.

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles Thanks for linking that video with Esther, I hadn’t seen it. Esther, like Rollo, generally always makes me consider something else about life that I didn’t realize just about every time I come into contact with their way of thinking. I think she was the most self-aware female to ever live and self-awareness is the bedrock of intelligence. The video is actually quite difficult to watch because their conversation is quite active and combative in German, and I don’t speak it. The google translation is bad, clearly. What’s amazing is that the thorough ownage Vilar lays down on that… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

hollenhund2 Armenian female militia members from 1895: Armenian or Mexican? Either way, odds are they wound up in submission to a man. Or dead. Because sexual dimorphism exists no matter how many feminists, manginas, TradCons, etc. try to deny it. The Vilar interview The video is actually quite difficult to watch because their conversation is quite active and combative in German, and I don’t speak it. The google translation is bad, clearly. The translation is actually pretty good so far as I can tell although the subtitles sometimes are gone too quickly to read. But I speak tourist German so… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
10 years ago

@Anonymous, Jeremy Yeah, from my basic German understanding it’s a decent translation of a very fast conversation. That being said, it’s really quite amazing to note that Vilar is confident in her femininity. Ever since feminists took over the public discourse, “confidence” has been defined strictly in the masculine fashion. I can safely say I can’t remember the last time I saw truly feminine confidence in person. It’s honestly enjoyable to watch, yet the feminist narrative has been to devalue such a wonderful thing. What a horrible way to treat your fellow women. Meanwhile, feminists routinely sound like the interviewer… Read more »

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Anon

Also, I wanted to say, that even though Vilar knows the game (she understands the victimhood facade as a manipulation), she still seems powerless to expose Alice as simply using that technique. This is I think an interesting point to note. The facade of weakness from women is ingrained to the point where logical argument to expose it is useless, even from a woman who clearly understands all of it and is self-aware of her own manipulation.

One might say, that this facade of weakness has no counter, much like a mans physical strength.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Jeremy

Schwarzer displays typical half baked female maudlin indignation when Vilar denies the central tenet of feminism, that women are oppressed. It’s like Vilar is the traitor betraying the secret of the Gynocracy. As Roissy once said, the closer you get to the truth about women the louder they screech.

Vilar opened my eyes to the real extent of female manipulation of men. When I’m in a relationship with a woman, I now understand that much of her interactions with me will be endeavors to manipulate me. It doesn’t make me angry. Women can’t help themselves.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Jeremy “The facade of weakness from women is ingrained to the point where logical argument to expose it is useless, even from a woman who clearly understands all of it and is self-aware of her own manipulation. One might say, that this facade of weakness has no counter, much like a mans physical strength.” Here’s something I use that’s had some success. When she goes into the typical childish female victim mode (voice cracking like she’s 9 years old and ready to cry, lips down turned and eyebrows furrowed as if she were a little toddler), I’ll pause and say:… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
10 years ago

@scribblerg: “The effect of the Blue Pill on me had been to alienate me from myself. I turned my idealism back onto myself. I’ve also realized that the ego buffers I developed were largely defense mechanisms to a world that handed me false beliefs and shamed me simultaneously.” Yah – I hear you. I most definitely can relate to that. It sure is good becoming older. Sort of like “Ive looked at life from both sides now” (except Joni Mitchell’s lyrics were written from the woman’s perspective, but they still sure are good lyrics – and I sure did find… Read more »

Jeremy
10 years ago

Watch it closely while paying close attention to Schwarzer’s speech and points. She’s flipping everything upside down and Vilar doesn’t stop her and call her out on it. At one point she’s trying to declare that men not helping the women at home is some form of oppression, and refers to men who do help out as “nice”, and then outright says that women are “dependent” on men to do these things as if men hold women hostage by not lifting heavy objects, or taking care of the car, etc… It’s pure manipulation right in Vilars face, and rather than… Read more »

Jeremy
10 years ago

Err, unfinished sentence there…
This is probably just her own argument style, but I think it says that while she is conscious of this manipulation that she doesn’t have a method to combat it.

hoellenhund2
10 years ago

Armenian or Mexican?

Armenian. The photo was taken in the Ottoman Empire, during the massacres committed against the Armenian minority in 1894-95. The woman on the right is the great grandmother of the musician Derek Sherinian.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Jeremy,

But Vilar does use a method. She calls her out on her victim mongering. For instance, when discussing the “Year of the Woman” (aka, the Year of the Poor, Oppressed, Maligned Victims), Vilar says, “there’s no honor in that.”

That’s what I do. I shame them and call them out and say essentially, “grow up.”

I’ll admit, I have mixed results. I don’t think we can prevent women from playing the victim. I think it’s part of their hard wiring, western fathers foster it, and the masses of ass kissing betas cement it.

Tom
Tom
10 years ago

This article by a representaive who won’t shut up about the realities of women in the military is very revealing

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/01/zero-women-pass-marine-combat-endurance-test-army-allowing-women-ranger-school/

Bet you never saw that story in the commercial media.

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles That’s not calling her out on victimhood manipulation though, all she’s doing is confronting the vulgar cheerleading by the feminists. A “Year of the Woman” is cheerleading and Vilar’s opposition to that is appropriately muted for the absurd nature of the declaration. All that said, it has little to do with the facade of weakness that women use. What I’m specifically talking about is the constant harping by Schwarzer on how “hard” women have it that men are not also partially doing their work, and how “oppressed” women are that men will not share the load of female work… Read more »

Eon56
Eon56
10 years ago

I have a relative in the navy.

So far, she’s had a year or two long affair with the married superior who recruited her (this began before she had even gotten into the navy, he picked her up in high school), had “unsatisfying” hook ups with four guys in her unit or whatever, and is now dating and living with a fifth long term and likely fucking around on him. Think she’s been there for two years.

Rollo Tomassi
10 years ago
Reply to  Eon56

@Eon, and she’ll be eligible for veteran’s benefits soon.

cheupez
10 years ago

Looking at the cool knowing smile on Esther Vilar’s face, I realize that she too is a woman. As cold and as calculating as can ever be. She knows that Mrs. Spider will literally eat her husband to feed the eggs he has fertilized. It sounds like she is quietly thinking: “Ya, Mr Man, you will die years earlier than me from the stress of literally being eaten by me and your children, but that’s life. I dont mind washing the dishes though, unlike this screeching haridan sitting here howling at me… But Mr. Man, you will die. I will… Read more »

Jeremy
10 years ago

@cheupez

Looking at the cool knowing smile on Esther Vilar’s face, I realize that she too is a woman. As cold and as calculating as can ever be. She knows that Mrs. Spider will literally eat her husband to feed the eggs he has fertilized.

Her face and demeanor, frankly, reminded me of amused mastery.

cheupez
10 years ago

@Jeremy,

Yes. Amused mastery, only this time the one who is being mastered looks even older than the master.

The way keeps bursting into bouts of suppressed laughter at the whining lady. She gets her so well, where she is coming from and where she is going. It is just fun to watch. Marvelous.

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi

…and she’ll be eligible for veteran’s benefits soon.

It makes you wonder just what are the veteran benefit adjustments for the hazard of exposure to syphillis.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Jeremy I think I agree the maudlin manipulation monster cannot be breached with logic and reason. I think, depending upon the type of woman and your strength of frame, it can be tamed. I’ve done it. You can’t extinguish it but you can minimize it. As an aside, re, Schwarzer paints everything that is a benefit for women as a oppression or degradation by men . . . and when they have high end professions, they depict those as oppression lol. You have to tip your hat to women. They have managed to convince most of the world that not… Read more »

scray
scray
10 years ago

twp is just a fantasy.

like james bond and superman.

like movies where kids outsmart adults.

it’s also like any sitcom you can imagine.

people like fantasies.

for people without life experience, that’s all they know.

Indefiance
Indefiance
10 years ago

This will be my first time commenting here, and I have chosen now because this is precisely the same vein of thought’s I’ve been having in regards to women, and I wanted to share. As I said, After having similar thoughts lately, this article struck me as supremely apropros to my current mind set. Some brief history: Recently I was attempting to come to terms with the notion that my 12 year marriage would need to be redefined as to my expectations of what my wife is capable of. I was/have been delusionally caught in the notion that she would… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
10 years ago

@Indefiance

Feminism is the direct outgrowth of this Artificial Reality

This same thought has occurred to me as well. Feminism could not exist without the fabrication that modern First World life has become. It really is a fascinating idea, and even more fascinating when you realize women are trying to destroy the men that allow that fabrication (and by extension feminism) to exist.

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles I think I agree the maudlin manipulation monster cannot be breached with logic and reason. I don’t think it can be breached at all. As women have no counter to male physical strength, men in their evolved state have no counter to a woman’s desires once convinced that woman is in dire need of their help. Men have evolved to be their protectors so ultimately if any woman manages to convince a man that she is in need of that instinctual behavior, they’ll get it. I would argue that rational conscious decision by males can override this, but the… Read more »

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

“What this means for the women could be likened to an “Artificial Reality” that they have been selected for instead of the real one. Artificial in the sense that it could not exist without the shock absorbing buffer provided by the men” “Feminism is the direct outgrowth of this Artificial Reality” “The good things I have taken away from this analysis is the realization that it is only wit other Male friends that I can truly be understood” Standing ovation!!!! Fucking well done!!! Here’s the question and I don’t know the answer. If men are really superior at reasoning through… Read more »

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

“My wife on the other hand, while intelligent, just can’t and never has been able to provide any real stimulus or mutual exchange of ideas.” Same. “Instead of watching documentaries with me however, she would much prefer watching Hell’s kitchen or Grey’s Anatomy. ” Same. “we are fundamentally almost an entirely different species as a figure of speech” Agreed. “We overlap like a Venn Diagram, but only about 50-75%.” Way less if you ask me. “The Conclusion I draw from this is simply that I have discovered contrary to what my upbringing would have me believe, women are in general… Read more »

newlyaloof
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles, ” If men were so good at seeing through things, you would expect men to see through female manipulation and prevarication, no?”

Men only have one eye, and it’s neighbors are nuts who always tell it to ignore the lies and concentrate on the prize.

Jeremy
10 years ago

I wouldn’t say women are “less capable” of utilizing rationality. I would instead say that they don’t need to, so why should they put any effort at trying to? If you were a being, who by design was physically weaker than everyone else, and further had methods of manipulating those who are stronger in order to get what you want, and further those methods involve extreme levels of duplicity and double-think… you’ll do the smart thing and learn how to say one thing, while meaning something else. Eventually it’ll become who and what you are, and rationality will seem like… Read more »

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

“I wouldn’t say women are “less capable” of utilizing rationality. I would instead say that they don’t need to, so why should they put any effort at trying to?”

@Jeremy

Personally I think there’s a physical component. Hormones and such. But I think we can agree that for practical purposes… It really doesn’t matter.

Jeremy
10 years ago

I don’t disagree that a physical component likely exists, but it becomes a chicken-and-egg question. Did the lack of a need for rationality (as opposed to pragmatism) create genetic changes that made women duplicitous in nature? Or is it their physical characteristics that predispose them to that path? Hard to say, likely a mix.

It doesn’t really matter, they are what they are, and despite the significant pain their nature can cause men in specific circumstances, there is clearly a biological need for that level of pragmatic irrationality in at least one side of the human coin.

Blaximus
10 years ago

@ Jeremy: ” I wouldn’t say women are “less capable” of utilizing rationality. I would instead say that they don’t need to, so why should they put any effort at trying to? If you were a being, who by design was physically weaker than everyone else, and further had methods of manipulating those who are stronger in order to get what you want, and further those methods involve extreme levels of duplicity and double-think… you’ll do the smart thing and learn how to say one thing, while meaning something else. Eventually it’ll become who and what you are, and rationality… Read more »

Blaximus
10 years ago

Opppsss. Above should read “It is NOT necessary to seek empathy from a woman”

Brain fart.

Wild Man
Wild Man
10 years ago

@Indefiance – interesting comments with respect to “Artificial Reality”, and though I think there may be some truth to your views on how the man/woman differences wrt to what is emphasized and valued cognitively gender-wise, came to be, way back in prehistory, I think there may be a lot more to it. @rugby11 linked the following link to another Rational Male thread the other day (rugby – you sure do consistently link interesting stuff): https://youtu.be/UTchioiHM0U This Yuval Harari has some very interesting ideas – one of which is that, perhaps over the last 70,000 years, the original darwinian human endeavor… Read more »

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

“Did the lack of a need for rationality (as opposed to pragmatism) create genetic changes that made women duplicitous in nature?”

I think the inherent need for a lack of rationality created the genetic changes. War brides.

Wild Man
Wild Man
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles: “Here’s the question and I don’t know the answer. If men are really superior at reasoning through artifice to see reality, why are women so wickedly good at manipulating men? If men were so good at seeing through things, you would expect men to see through female manipulation and prevarication, no? But few men see through it. In fact, many argue women are superior at sensing danger and seeing through manipulation while men more often ignore danger” You are pointing at an extremely valid point that has bothered me wrt some of the discussion here for a long time.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

I’m gonna go sit with Andy for a while.

contrarian
contrarian
10 years ago

@jeremy:nailed it
If you’ve had to adapt, war bride psychology, rationality is an impedement. Why be burdened by your inherent duplicity or ammorality? IOW what is adaptive for her is sociopathy for me. Solution: don’t abandon rationality.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
10 years ago

“If you were a being, who by design was physically weaker than everyone else, and further had methods of manipulating those who are stronger in order to get what you want, and further those methods involve extreme levels of duplicity and double-think… you’ll do the smart thing and learn how to say one thing, while meaning something else. Eventually it’ll become who and what you are, and rationality will seem like an impediment.” Good. “I think the inherent need for a lack of rationality created the genetic changes. War brides.” Also good. Adjust your calibration of the above with a… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
10 years ago

Also, Rollo and I were just talking about manipulation on the ‘War Brides of Europe’ thread if anyone is just ravenous to hear more on this topic: http://therationalmale.com/2016/02/03/the-war-brides-of-europe/comment-page-9/#comment-140685

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Jeremy “I wouldn’t say women are “less capable” of utilizing rationality. I would instead say that they don’t need to, so why should they put any effort at trying to?” I think their solipsism gets in the way. A woman introduced me to philosophy. She had that love of wisdom for the sake of knowing and understanding the world. So women are capable of achieving a philosophic mind. My personal experience with the women I’ve dated is they can only go so far. They always bring the conversation back to personal things about THEM. I think it’s their solipsism. They… Read more »

kfg
kfg
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles:

I would rephrase that as the social intelligence of manipulation.

I propose that the idea that women are more socially intelligent generically is . . . a manipulation.

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

“I agree with you that women are on average more intelligent than men with regard to a kind of intelligence – social intelligence and manipulation.”

Eh, I think you guys are assuming that women manipulate rationally.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Andy

“Eh, I think you guys are assuming that women manipulate rationally.”

They’re sickeningly good. It involves some reason. A few years ago I read somewhere in the ‘sphere, “when a woman uses bad logic on you, she is trying to manipulate you.” That is very true. I strongly suspect they use bad logic intentionally.

Jeremy
10 years ago

I think women manipulate as a matter of course. It is the only viable option for many of them, and the easiest for all of them. I think rehashing the actual definition of rationality is useful here: From Wikipedia: Rationality is the quality or state of being reasonable, based on facts or reason.[1] Rationality implies the conformity of one’s beliefs with one’s reasons to believe, or of one’s actions with one’s reasons for action From Webster: The quality or state of being agreeable to reason Reason is used in both of these, so lets define reason: 1. a cause, explanation,… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
10 years ago

@Bachelorocles – I think it is more so that men and women are equally as smart, normatively, (excepting the right-hand male outliers, and therefore excepting the left-hand male outliers, for symmetry-sake), but that different aspects of each gender’s cognitive powers are emphasized. I guess this depends on your definition of “smart”, or “intelligence”, and if you agree that it should be defined in terms of praticality, you could then ask – what power does intelligence bring to one’s life? If you are willing to define personal power, as Robert Greene has (quoting him): “Power is the measure of the degree… Read more »

TuffLuv
TuffLuv
10 years ago

I think it’s more like.. she manipulates us so well because.. though we can see her manipulation attempts clearly, we make excuses for her because we don’t want to have to pull the plug, so we either respond with great game, deflecting the current attempt, or with compliance if we have weak game. nearly inevitably, for the guy who has game, and successfully defends her weak attempt, she now has a measuring stick to prepare the next attempt, and puts more thought and effort into it, and comes again. This cycle repeats until: our game breaks down and she wins,… Read more »

Travis
Travis
10 years ago
Blaximus
10 years ago

Sometimes, it’s best not to overthink and complicate things unnecessarily.

thwack
thwack
10 years ago

@Blaximus

yup.

I will even be a bit racist a say its a white man thing; sometimes a feature, sometimes a bug.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Wild Person I think it is more so that men and women are equally as smart, normatively, (excepting the right-hand male outliers, and therefore excepting the left-hand male outliers, for symmetry-sake), but that different aspects of each gender’s cognitive powers are emphasized. I think you are willing to ignore standard definitions of words in order to preserve your Blue Pill Equalitarianism. There is a term for general intelligence, the symbol “g”. It’s been studied for nearly 100 years with consistent results. If one accepts the sex-norming IQ tests (a pretty big assumption) upfront, then the median IQ is 100, the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Wild Person On an anecdotal level (for whatever it’s worth) I have noticed intelligent women have faster intelligence responses than intelligent men, but they are less able to explain the underlying dynamic – as if very sharp but less self-aware around the inner nature of the sharpness. Sometimes they just know stuff, that is bang-on, but often can’t explain how they came to learn these things. Hmm. I can’t say that I’ve ever seen that, because… Try playing pictionary with two very sharp women against two very sharp men. The women win. They are too fast. …my definition of “intelligent… Read more »

Andy
Andy
10 years ago

My point with the manipulation thing is that when they’re doing their best work, like trying to beta-ize a guy, it isn’t a consciously intentional thing.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

This cycle repeats until: our game breaks down and she wins, she calls us on it and taints the harmonious relationship, she escalates it (meaning she wants out), or she becomes such a raving shit-test pitching bitch that we can’t help but bail cuz we just can’t stand to be around her anymore because she’s obsessed with breaking us but we will not break.. …or enough shit tests are blown away that her hypergamy is satisfied and she dials back down to a more compliant, domesticated, state. In that state she may find that her skills and ways complement his…heck,… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Andy
My point with the manipulation thing is that when they’re doing their best work, like trying to beta-ize a guy, it isn’t a consciously intentional thing

Cosign.

Bachelorocles
Bachelorocles
10 years ago

@Jeremy “So when I consider female manipulation I’m forced to consider that there is no “rationality” to it at all” Under those terms, I agree. They’re use Machiavellian reasoning or sophistry. @ Wild Man “I can’t see how you could argue that men are not well matched by women wrt to cognitive powers as so defined (albiet the actual aspects emphasized, and the resulting influence-flavors, are different).” Men are not well matched, especially in our culture. Consider the ridiculously unfair divorce laws. And then consider these laws were passed by men and are administered by men — men with the… Read more »

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Andy

My point with the manipulation thing is that when they’re doing their best work, like trying to beta-ize a guy, it isn’t a consciously intentional thing.

I think some of it is consciously intentional, the part that seeks to test and get what they can from a man, that part is intentional. Turning a man into a beta supplicant in the process, that’s a bi-product of their manipulation method compounded by male idealism.

Rollo Tomassi
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Pour Girl: “It’s women’s job to get away with everything they can.”

Rollo: “What’s men’s job?”

Pour Girl: “Not to let them.”

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Blaximus Sometimes, it’s best not to overthink and complicate things unnecessarily. Yeah, it’s best to keep Occam’s Razor good and sharp, works better that way. Anytime a man starts getting all wrapped around the axle about “women this” and “women that” and “so complicated”, one way to get back to ground is to repeat those three little words: …”It’s only pussy”… If every blue-balled beta-boy just repeated that a few times every day he’d be better off sooner or later, and so would the rest of the world. thwack I will even be a bit racist a say its a… Read more »

Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
10 years ago

@Jeremy

How do I let a woman know that I know she wants my attention and don’t plan to give it because I hate her, without actually paying her attention?

Do I fling shit over my shoulder?

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Yollo

Why give attention to a woman you hate?

Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
10 years ago

@Jeremy

I wouldn’t. But I wish she’d figure out it’s cuz I think she’s too hideous to be trying to game me like men game women.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Yolo, maybe it’s time for a little LJBF talk…or maybe just amused mastery.

Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
10 years ago

@Anon

Ok……fine.

Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
Yollo "Bat Man" Comanche
10 years ago

Thank you Rollo. I forgot I punched in again.

Blaximus
10 years ago

@ Anonymous Reader – ” Yeah, it’s best to keep Occam’s Razor good and sharp, works better that way. Anytime a man starts getting all wrapped around the axle about “women this” and “women that” and “so complicated”, one way to get back to ground is to repeat those three little words: …”It’s only pussy”… If every blue-balled beta-boy just repeated that a few times every day he’d be better off sooner or later, and so would the rest of the world. ” I don’t know any other way to express this thought. Along with ” it’s only pussy ”… Read more »

Kryptokate
Kryptokate
10 years ago

You guys keep using “men” and “women” as broad categories when you’re talking about very rare cognitive abilities that the VAST majority of both men and women lack. Most *PEOPLE* are not cerebral, logical, or interested in science, philosophy, and abstract subjects. You’re talking about a very small minority of high IQ introverted thinkers. Yes, there are more men in that category than women. But more than 90% of men are also not in that category. So stop talking in universals. The stats are pretty clear. Roughly 2% of females are logical-minded abstract thinker scientist types, and roughly 7% of… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Yollo, without doxxing, what’s the situation? If this is at work you have to play totally cool, if it’s within your social circle it’s still best to be cool in a different way. If it’s just someone you run into in a bar sometimes, then take Julian / YaReally’s path: game her in a friendly way as social proofing and introduce her to someone else.

At work? Play the cool professional and make certain never to be alone with her. Amused mastery works in either situation.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

Kate, thanks for dropping by. You need more CAPS when you post. MOAR CAPS. Because it’s so intellectually convincing.

KryptoKate
KryptoKate
10 years ago

@ Anonymous Thanks for the non-substantive response.

As for rhetoric, I like caps when communicating in a forum that doesn’t allow for the multitude of ways one conveys emphasis IRL (tonality, pitch, volume, body language). It’s more efficient than html tags or selecting precisely the exact synonym that conveys the same meaning that caps do with a single button-click. I know some people find caps to be overly aggressive, yet the meaning is never lost.

Jeremy
10 years ago

@Yollo

I wouldn’t. But I wish she’d figure out it’s cuz I think she’s too hideous to be trying to game me like men game women.

Well, you could just act entirely indifferent around her. Her attempts to get attention from you can’t hurt. (can they?) Who cares if a bigger (HT Sun) is trying to game you, be amused by this, I would.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
10 years ago

@ Anonymous Thanks for the non-substantive response.

No problem. Don’t forget, MOAR CAPS.

6Bullets
10 years ago

People (and cultures) are good at deep changes, just not quick ones.

Only real question left is if the heavy flywheel of society can stay turning with all these imbalances acting on it at at once.

Blaximus
10 years ago

” Only real question left is if the heavy flywheel of society can stay turning with all these imbalances acting on it at at once. ”

Ohhhh. I like that one.

scribblerg
scribblerg
10 years ago

@Kate – Spoken like only a true self-anointed, pseudo-intellect would do. Try and keep up, sweetie. You obviously don’t have experience in manual, working class labor where those “apes” you deride have to use reason every day to cooperate with each other. I was a warehouseman for a while when I was a kid and worked with guys who were clearly of average intelligence. In a large warehouse, years ago, before massive automation and RFID etc, people were responsible for organizing the movement of literally tons of material nonstop. It merely requires the application of common sense and reasoning –… Read more »

SJF
SJF
10 years ago

@Indefiance Welcome with your first comment. (First of all, If you’ve been reading comments here for a year, you know to take my tone with a grain of salt and heed the ideas to work on as masculine self-improvement) Congratulations, you have red pill awareness. Now what are you going to do with that? “Equalism therefore is and always has been a false belief, and we are fundamentally almost an entirely different species as a figure of speech, but also in what evolutionary pressures we have been selected for. The Conclusion I draw from this is simply that I have… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
10 years ago

@ Indefiance Count your blessings man.My dear sweet mother is mensa w/ 3 degrees psyc soci & phil. Nobody can discuss any of this w/ her w/ out running into a wall of pedantry and semantics till the agreement of disagreement. I love her but this being in the upper 2% of the upper 2 % for the female is really just solipsism and manipulation on steroids,Like little miss can’t be wrong. My good friend and long time coworker prefers his women slightly retarded and we both agree this goal leaves a man open to a wider field of selection.… Read more »

Blaximus
10 years ago

“….So he had an Epiphany. So what? Show some Empathy. ….Oh wait, you’re a Kate.”

*dead*

Discover more from

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading

656
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x