A Teachable Moment

Teachable

While I’d had another post on deck for today I simply couldn’t let Divided Line’s most recent comment go unanswered. I was going to riff on his comment in that thread, but it occurred to me that his concerns would be educational for many new readers and what I tell him here might give even my regulars something new to think about.

This is the part I can’t get. I can look back and see how my beta behaviors made it impossible for my ex to respect and love me. I see those behaviors for what they are, but what I can’t do is internalize a competing value system, or a competing idealism, one which would allow me to judge myself in the way you’re judging yourself here. I still get stuck on “but she *should* have loved me for those behaviors,” even if I understand on an intellectual level why she didn’t. Even if I game myself into believing I feel differently about it, I know that on some level, I’m still going to be hoping that every girl I get involved with will prove to be capable of fulfilling that blue pill idealism. I fully expect to just fall back into oneitis and needy supplicating behaviors whenever I meet somebody. they just creep up on you without you even realizing it.

When I go into the intricacies of men’s innate sense of idealism this is what I mean. In a Blue Pill context there will always be an expectation of some possibility of an ideal state with a woman. The problem here isn’t men’s idealism, but rather the conditioning of it to expect an idealized Blue Pill outcome.

From a strictly deductive standpoint DL’s ex should have loved him for the idealized, pro-social, pro-family, pro-parental investment, pro-providership and pro-egalitarian that were some of the most integral parts of his life’s Blue Pill conditioning.

The reality is that he’d been convinced of a Blue Pill social order founded on an Old Set of Books.

Let’s get real about it. It’s not like women have good reason to behave the way they do. Whatever evo-psych explanation we can come with, it doesn’t provide them with an excuse. They’re not stewards of the gene pool, there is no greater good that is served by hypergamy. In a modern context it’s a liability, not an asset. At the limbic level they’re screening for traits that would have been advantageous 20,000 years ago, not in a modern industrial or post industrial society. Should I try to convince myself otherwise and judge myself according to my evolutionary fitness or something? It seems absurd.

When I wrote Our Sisters’ Keeper I delved into the question of whether it could be expected of women to take responsibility for their own decisions, moral or otherwise. It generally comes down to a question of the seeming determinism that Hypergamy represents, and the deductive male-logic that, idealistically, expects women to take personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

In this respect Hypergamy doesn’t provide women with an excuse for the consequences, but the question of personal responsibility still doesn’t change the the underlying motivators, incentives and influences that Hypergamy exerts over women. The devil biology made me do it is the same alibi for Hypergamy as it is for men’s Selfish Gene.

While the software may change with the environment, our firmware and our hardware are still very much based in the evolution that benefitted our prehistoric predecessors. What measure you personally choose to judge yourself by is up to you, but again, the hardware and the firmware doesn’t change.

Under our modern social environment women have an unprecedented, virtually unilateral, stewardship of the gene pool. So much so in fact that women’s sexual selection strategy, Hypergamy and feminine social primacy are enforced by law and ensaturated into our social fabric. Whether this is for ‘the greater good’ or not all depends on who’s agenda defines what ‘good’ is.

For a very long time men had at least some measure of being able to direct the course that the gene pool was going. Men’s influence today is only as potent as women’s legislated sexual selection will allow them.

Women aren’t dogs, they’re human beings. They’re perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – anybody who can think at an abstract level should be. Women are unaware of themselves because the bar is so low for them, because they are profoundly privileged and everything is handed to them on a silver platter, not because they’re incapable of treating men in a way that would have made the blue pill equality ideal possible.

It really just boils down to a profound form of inferiority, their unwillingness to empathize or give a shit. They don’t care because they don’t have to. It’s a fundamental hollowness at the core of their character.

You’re presuming an egalitarian inspired similarity between men and women, and once again I’ll refer you to what I proposed above; you’re expecting software to override firmware and hardware. There are simply evidential and provable physical and cognitive differences between men and women.

I believe you’re correct – women are perfectly capable of self awareness and of awareness of others. In theory they’re perfectly capable of higher order idealism – however, this is not women’s firmware directive. It is not their initial mental point of origin.

True, women can learn to be empathetic, learn to be idealistic, and yes, learn to sublimate their innate solipsism, but their capacity to learn to override their firmware doesn’t erase the root conditions they must learn and practice to override.

And yes, we’ve reached a (western) social order that prioritizes and privileges women by setting the bar very low for them, thus making this ‘learning’, or even the desire to learn, to override their neural firmware not just a challenge, but entirely unexpected of them.

The capacity fro women to realize that Blue Pill ideal is there, but what this does is pit women’s innate dispositions against what men think would be an ideal state for both sexes, and then holds women personally responsible for not ‘learning’ to override their firmware.

Dalrock has a series of posts about feminism that blames men for the failures of feminism. Feminism would work if not for uncooperative men; the same is true for Blue Pill men – Blue Pill idealism would work if not for uncooperative women. Both blame the failures of their goal-states on the other sex’s personal / social character flaws without consideration of the hindbrain, firmware that always rebels against those states.

How do you just accept that and blame yourself for being beta? I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I’m saying I want to be able to do the same thing. I just can’t access that mindset.

What was so terrible about the blue pill equalism really? We all regard it with contempt, but we’re just being pragmatic, since it’s unworkable, a cruel lie we were all fed from birth. I get all that. But in and of itself, what was so terrible about it? Had it been possible – which it is not – would the idea been worthy of such contempt? I can’t convince myself of that.

Again, men’s idealistic root note wants some kind of cooperative Blue Pill harmony to exist in a mutually shared, mutually negotiated and mutually agreed upon state between men and women. Yes, Blue Pill equalism seems very pragmatic, that’s what makes subscribing to it so seductive, and potentially so damaging for idealistic men. The Feminine Imperative figured that out a hundred thousand years ago – men are the True Romantics, and that’s been their thumbscrew for millennia.

All I did was treat my ex the way I wanted to be treated. In fact, that’s all I did in any of my relationships. And not even because I was trying to be Ghandi or live according to some conscious code, but simply because that is what came naturally. That’s what made the relationship appealing and worth investing in in the first place. Feeling that way about her cultivated a selfless aspect of myself, one that I actually *like.* I miss feeling that way. I loved her because she inspired me to treat her the way I did, or to want to treat her that way. I can look back on it and see it as beta, and if I regard women like robots running an evo-psych script, I can see that it would have been impossible for her to love and respect me, I guess. So is that what it boils down to? Thinking about women as if they are children or dumb dogs and accepting it?

There is great power in the Golden Rule. I don’t mean that from the sentimentalist, “do unto others” perspective, but rather how available you make yourself to exploitation and manipulation when adopting that mindset. There is no position more vulnerable than an expectation of equal treatment from another for like treatment from yourself. It presumes a mutually shared acknowledgement of how that other would perceive treating you as they would themselves.

The fundamental differences between men and women (idealistic vs. opportunistic love concepts) virtually ensure that a conflict will occur when you pair this expectation of equal treatment and equal appreciation with the cardinal rule of sexual strategies:

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

Men’s predilection for idealism make them the logical candidates for this compromise or abandonment of their own imperatives, however, in doing so they fall prey to self-sacrifice in the hopes of mutual appreciation, earning relational equity and all while idealistically affirming for themselves their own righteousness of that sacrifice. The more you suffer the more it shows you really care, right?

The problem then becomes one of women fundamentally lacking the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate her own reality.

And thus we come back to the software vs. firmware conflict again.

This is what I mean when I say that women are “awful.” I don’t even have words for it. I don’t understand how I’m supposed to get past the contempt or sense of being wronged. You can tell yourself “stop being beta, bro. Don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better, etc.,” or anything you like, it doesn’t change the reality or the fact that I recognize the reality. It’s like trying to convince yourself that 2+2=5.

My idealism was co-opted to serve the FI, but what is competing idealism? Stoicism and being a badass who can take it? Beating myself up for being beta and striving for what? It’s like I’m supposed to improve myself, but I can’t see anything that I would actually regard as an improvement, just traits that would appeal to women’s hunter gatherer libido.

The first step is giving up hope on the Blue Pill ideals you’ve been conditioned to believe are desirable, much less achievable. You need to accept that Blue Pill idealism will never be achieved in a Red Pill paradigm.

The next step is to accept that you can create new hope and a new ideal founded on Red Pill awareness rather than succumbing to a nihilistic despair that’s based on the hope for Blue Pill falsehoods.

Men’s idealistic nature can either be his greatest vulnerability or the source of his greatest strength and drive. It’s the context and conditioning of that idealism that makes it a danger or a boon. Stoicism is a practical measuring of that idealism based on self-knowledge and a truthful understanding of the state in which a man lives (Red Pill awareness).

Why are we so much more idealistic and imaginative in our youth? Because we have very little life experience with which to measure that idealism against. This is exactly why the Feminine Imperative must condition men from an early age – to direct that idealism to its own Blue Pill ends before a man learns enough about his reality to reject the imperatives’ ends in favor of his own.

And that is why undiluted, uncompromised Red Pill awareness being widely available is a threat to the Feminine Imperative.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
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“you SHOULD have started with hb6 = competition anxiety…and it was a shit test…”

So money, as always HABD

Dutchman
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@SJF

I get what you’re saying dude. I mean, obviously Rollo’s wife knows he writes this blog and I’m sure he faced some shit tests about it and handled them like a pro. I just don’t necessarily want to face those same shit tests until I’m sure I can bat them aside.

Dutchman
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I had occasion to compliment the wife yesterday after she spent the day cleaning the fuck out of the kids’ rooms.

Me: Good job on their rooms, they look great.

Her: Yeah, I never want them to go back in there again.

kfg
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@Dutchman:

KFG Maxim Number Something or Other:

A clean kitchen is a useless kitchen.

having a bad day
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@Dutchman

“I had occasion to compliment the wife yesterday after she spent the day cleaning the fuck out of the kids’ rooms.

Me: Good job on their rooms, they look great.

Her: Yeah, I never want them to go back in there again.”

do you see how she didn’t ‘accept’ your compliment?…

Dutchman
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HABD, no, I really wasn’t sure how to interpret it. If she accepted it, would she just have said “Thank you! I put a lot of effort into it and I’m glad it’s finally done!” or something?

GW
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@Dutchman, How about calmly saying your version of, “Good start on getting the house in order today. Keep it up.”, followed by walking away and maintaining calmness no matter how she reacts.
This sets your expectations high while rewarding with partial approval.

having a bad day
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@Dutchman “If she accepted it, would she just have said “Thank you! I put a lot of effort into it and I’m glad it’s finally done!” or something?” yes, she would have just said ‘thank you.’ (with no qualifying language…) bc then she’s agreeing to accept the compliment, which is in YOUR frame…meaning the compliment was important to her (and by extension, she values your approval). her response was totally in her frame = me…me…me…lol… “Yeah, I never want them to go back in there again.” bc then SHE would have to be put out cleaning again…lol… i just wanted… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Sentient – that’s a good FR. It’s interesting just how close and yet so far these threesome scenarios can be (I haven’t had one yet, but it’ll happen one day). HABD nailed it of course but a couple of thoughts I had -You don’t say much about how your vibe was with the 6.5? Like obviously the 6 was into you, but I assume you must have had enough attraction with the 6.5 to think kissing her (much less a threesome) was a serious possibility? -Why didn’t you try to manage the logistics? For eg, invite both into your room… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Sounds like pulling a threesome in that situ would take serious frame and bustamove – HABD is just like ‘just pull her into the room too dude’ and I see how this goes, you need to create a reality so firm that they just follow along and then wonder how the fuck they did and enjoyed something so far out of what they expected to happen. But I think you really need to build up reference experiences gradually before such things become possible. If you’re not on cocaine or something at least lol. See, until relatively recently I was at… Read more »

Culum Struan
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HABD, Sentient, thanks for the comments. HABD – I was just about to post indignantly that I don’t have an M/W complex (and I don’t) but I take your point about the subtler issue. I hadn’t thought of it that way before, but you’re essentially saying that if I view a girl as “girlfriend worthy” then I slow down on the escalation *even though I don’t want a relationship*. And you’re spot on there I think. Need to be very alert to it. I don’t think the FRA issue has left any residue though – I’m over it and she’s… Read more »

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Thanks Forge – yes you’re right of course, although I had never thought of it like that. What you’re saying is basically a combination of what HABD is saying about me not escalating with good girls and Sentient’s thought about state and getting into state. There’s a powerful feedback loop in a good date – when the girl is hot (or even better hot+smart/funny) my interest goes up sharply and my state improves and we just bounce off each other and the chemistry goes through the roof.. When it’s not there..well, for me I’m just practicing laser eyes or whatever… Read more »

Culum Struan
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PS – I remember the first time I did something similar to the dance floor grab thing – it’s an amazing feeling when it works and you realize this is possible. I still don’t get into state strongly enough to do it most of the time when I go out but it feels great (the night I got it to work properly for the first – and only – time – I had spoken to a two set earlier briefly without my wing, then later on they walked past the bar where my wing and I were standing and I… Read more »

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Thanks for the replies all. @Culum Struan “What if you had done the same thing but gone a bit slower, at your pace instead of “rushing” between them? What if you had directed the action and the conversation and remained the center of focus? By teasing them, qualifying them and amping up the competition angle jokingly? Preferably with some sexual innuendo and strong EC/sexual voice tonality..” Yeah, actually got a chance to do something like that today. Worked good. A fourth girl had neck issues (I don’t know if it’s catching or if they’re pretending to get my attention now… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@having a bad day “that’s straight up beta baiting…lol…can you think of a better way for a girl to get you ‘reacting’ to her?…lol” Good call. I suppose I wasn’t considering the difference between baiting (which she does to capture attention) and an IOI (which generally exits her in spite of her best efforts to suppress it). Agree with most of what you wrote in the comment, the rest I plan on testing lol. Just this: “no, not a ‘neg’…negs are proactive…this girl was shit testing/beta baiting you…your ‘response’ was not ‘reactive’ (even if it was unconscious on your part…lol)… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Dutchman, HABD was spot on. It’s YOUR frame; what’s important is what YOU think of her performance. And her not thanking you in a musical girly voice for your compliment is her avoiding the compliment. But don’t worry, it takes time to build that kinda frame, she won’t do it overnight even if you started being perfect alpha instantaneously. I’d avoid GW’s thing for now though. You need to establish frame first. See this: ‘“Good start on getting the house in order today. Keep it up.”, followed by walking away and maintaining calmness no matter how she reacts.’ is a… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Culum You can get away with a lot on the dance floor if you know how to calibrate. It’s really hard to take the interactions anywhere unless you run into fool’s gold, but it’s a good way to break your expectations/get into state. Watch for the girls that seem to be ignoring you but their hair keeps flying in your direction or their hips keep lining up with yours (albeit a foot or two away). You sometimes need to disarm a friend or white knight or two, but that’s usually easy if you seem to just be HAVING SO MUCH… Read more »

Sentient
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@Culum On the 6.5 – I spent maybe 15 minutes total with her and her friend, not isolated. So didn’t really work up the attraction, I just assumed if she was willing to up to my room at all there was some shot. So pushed it and pfffft… But so what right? Same with the 6. I spent at most an hour over the two nights with her (30 and 30)… if she was hotter or younger or both, I would have definitely pushed more in my room, but at 2am or so, honestly, rather go to bed than work… Read more »

having a bad day
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@forge

(on my phone )

“But I think you really need to build up reference experiences gradually before such things become possible. If you’re not on cocaine or something at least lol.”

this is straight up FI…lol

now tell me why…

good luck!

Forge the Sky
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@habd “this is straight up FI…lol now tell me why…” Because it’s making you work for sexual access rather than simply knowing it’s available to you. And I get that, I just took stuff a few times back before I had any concious game. In the right situ my mindset would just fall into place. With a very LSE girl once I was just like ‘fuck this bitch, she’s been bothering me all day’ and just gab her buy the hair and push her over so her face was in the dirt and she’d cum in seconds. This was right… Read more »

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@Culum Sentient Forge “-You don’t say much about how your vibe was with the 6.5? ” was their interaction sexualized at all? (meaning would she think he’s attractive? = her hindbrain is on board) (note – there was a part of the newest post that covers some of this idea of attraction being necessary precursor)…AND did she ‘isolate’ with him or not? (that means no other males…and sometimes even then…lol)…that should tell you everything you need to know about the vibe… “-One interpretation of both of them walking you back is the threesome desire..the other is that the 6.5 was… Read more »

Sentient
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@HABD –

“props on giving that a try…when we deconstruct the situ in hindsight, can you see the path to daylight that was there?”

Indeed, indeed… i shuffle away in failure and shame. And curse you for now saying “foursome”! You bastard…!!!

having a bad day
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@Sentient

“Indeed, indeed… i shuffle away in failure and shame. And curse you for now saying “foursome”! You bastard…!!!”

lol…all i see is upside potential…

@Rollo

dude, you should write a book or something…lol

good luck!

Forge the Sky
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I don’t even know how I passed shit tests before A&A. ‘Inconsistently’ would be one answer. ‘By not giving a shit’ would be another.

Sentient
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Forge the Sky

January 27th, 2016 at 10:03 am
I don’t even know how I passed shit tests before A&A. ‘Inconsistently’ would be one answer. ‘By not giving a shit’ would be another.

By accident as well…. LOL

Forge the Sky
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I should probably be posting on the new thread by now but HABD keeps bringing cool shit up. “just think about what would have happened with those THREE girls, if you had been in your apartment with them and you hadn’t started reacting to them…think about the vibe when all 3 first showed up together and then extrapolate…lol …don’t you think it COULD have gone 4some pretty fast?…lol” Heh, I remember Steve Jabba (a natural who got into PUA) saying that if a girl stands near him for more than a few seconds he knows she wants to fuck him… Read more »

Culum Struan
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Forge the Sky – yeah exactly. This is the Secret Society concept – theres a classic RSD Tyler post on it from the old days which YaReally often links to. I am not (yet) as into it as I want to be but I’ve had a few flashes – one of my favourite pulls was a sugar daddy date where I flat out refused to pay anything and then fried a chick’s circuits with enough attraction that she gave me a BJ in the toilet and thanked me for it – and on the way home she told me how… Read more »

Culum Struan
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HABD/Sentient – okay point taken on all fronts. Esp about the attraction diffusing over time so it being better to pump up the attraction and just add in enough comfort. Now that I think about it, I don’t think I’ve EVER had a 4 hour pull (unless it was the second date and even then it was about 2 hours in the second date). ALL my successful first date pulls (if they happened at all) happened in about 2 hours by following exactly the model (unconsciously) Sentient mentions – insane off the charts attraction quickly, heavy makeout and girl obviously… Read more »

GW
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@Culum, Awesome FR and good job. I love your details and candidness with us here. Forget about the fact she was an easy fish (probably 9 days into her cycle for that matter), you certainly played it well, which is all that matters. Re: Physical force, you are right. Just let your gut tell you what to do without mental masturbation. If you feel like moving her physically, do it. Just don’t run a script and force it when there is no vibe. Watch Julien videos to get a feel….he constantly tests that boundary. Re: takeaway. (Thanks and to @Sentient)… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
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Exactly. So women should have no or little voice in the direction of society because unlike men, they’ll never think of how their hardware and firmware impacts everyone but themselves. When I see a hottie, my hardware and firmware says I should ravish her in the first dark alley, but I don’t because I’m a man. Of course, if one accepts hedonism as the point of society, pursuit of happiness and all the other nonsense, why should she care for the future or whatnot? In my country the hedonistic social democratic way of thinking hasn’t infested everyone, but the distinction… Read more »

Kieran
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Is this satire? You can’t actually be serious? This is laughable psychobabble.

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