Open Cuckoldry

forever

During the Q&A section of the Man in Demand talk I gave back in September I was asked about where I believed the social dynamic of Open Hypergamy would lead. In specific the idea was proposed, and I agree, that the logical next step for a social order founded on feminine Hypergamy and one that prioritizes the female sexual strategy as preeminent would lead to a state of openly accepted cuckoldry.

Although I can’t say it’s an accepted social dynamic as yet, there are many social indicators that are revealing this push towards a normalized cuckoldry. I’ll explore these for a bit in this essay, but for now these indicators are about a move away from conventional monogamy in the hopes that a ‘soft cuckoldry’ might be a precursor to instituting a more accepted open cuckoldry.

I think it’s also important to keep in mind a couple of primary principles about this shift. First is the fact that, initially, an openly accepted state of feminine-controlled cuckoldry will never be called ‘cuckoldry’ proper. If we use the example of a socially accepted (if not celebrated) open Hypergamy as a model, open cuckoldry will be sold as a more logical, more humane sexual strategy for men and women in light of divorce statistics, romantic boredom and other sexual studies that indicate men and women weren’t evolved for monogamous commitment.

The second is that open cuckoldry is the extension of a unilaterally feminine controlled Hypergamy. That is to say that as Hypergamy becomes more normalized as a social imperative that sexual strategy will extend to optimizing Hypergamy across genders. If that optimization is taken to its logical end it will require men not just to adopt cuckoldry as a norm, but to socially reward them for advocating it among their own sex.

Cuckoldry By Any Other Name

As I said, it wont be called ‘cuckoldry’; the connotations are negative, so a redefining will be made in order to make the practice more socially palatable. The Feminine Imperative wont recruit the very men it needs to perpetuate cuckoldry as their own sexual strategy if the term is derogatory. Thus we’ll get euphemisms for alternative lifestyles, ‘open marriages’ or a “Designer Relationship“:

We live in an era when everything is customizable. Relationships are no exception. Some people will continue to practice their grandparents’ form of monogamy, and others, probably the majority, will be serially exclusive and pair-bonded. Still others will explore some form of non-monogamous expression that encompasses one or more of the facets we’ve discussed or may flow in and out of being exclusive based on what the relationship requires. (We’ve done this ourselves.) Having the ability to customize a relationship means having the freedom to respond to life’s vicissitudes.

The first time I came across the concept of ‘soft polygamy’ I was in a behavioral psychology class exploring the practices of modern marriage and contrasting them with the long term sexual behaviors of men and women. As you might imagine the context of the study focused entirely on the ‘bad behaviors’ of men who essentially transitioned from serial monogamy to serial marriage. The idea was that in the process of moving from one LTR to another men were establishing a soft form of polygamy.

In a social respect, men have far more to lose from serial marriages than do women. The financial liabilities of divorce are well known to the manosphere, but so are the emotional and familial accountabilities. So from a strictly male perspective, serial LTRs are a dicey prospect, but from a female perspective, in a feminine-primary social order, institutionalized Hypergamy and the soft polygamy that results from the Sandbergian sexual strategy, soft cuckoldry becomes pragmatic in optimizing Hypergamy for women.

At this point we should consider the Heartiste maxim about feminism again:

The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

Institutionalized cuckoldry is the logical means to restricting male sexuality, but we have to consider what function that restriction serves for women. From an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks perspective the plan is simple; restrict that sexuality as women find need for a particular man’s service.

Diamonds and Rust

While I’m reluctant to prognosticate, my guess is that future generations of men will be conditioned to accept their role in this cuckoldry as part of their socialization. The above Forevermark diamond advertisement is one illustration of this. Open Hypergamy and its acceptance has already made its popular debut in mainstream media and advertising, and likewise open cuckoldry is just now finding a social foothold.

It takes the Red Pill Lens to appreciate the efforts as they’re being made by a large society. The Forevermark ad is intended to be funny or cute, but it belies a deeper, more poignant truth about Alpha Widows, Hypergamy and the long term sexual strategy Plan and roles women expect men to play in it.

I was made aware of this ad being circulated from a reader on Twitter and at first thought it was a reworked joke. It is however legit and billboards with this campaign are up in major cities. Without the benefit of a Red Pill Lens I can see how most men would laugh it off or women might giggle sardonically about it, but the the fact remains that a clever copywriter is aware of the sexual dynamics that make it funny.

I pulled the following quote from Deti on one of Dalrock’s more recent post:

“I think what we will continue to see is growing disengagement.”

Yeah, this has been discussed here and elsewhere in the almost 5 years I’ve been around here.

I think that what will happen is that things will continue sliding in the same direction they’re going now, until a critical mass is reached. I don’t know what that critical mass is, what will trigger it, or when it will be reached.

We live in a mostly free society with a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. We have maximum freedom and autonomy right now, with both sexes being free to pursue pretty much whatever they want, however they want to. That is the prime characteristic driving the current circumstance — that, and up to now, there’s been enough money taxed, borrowed and stolen to pay for it.

A growing number of men are not getting as much sex as they want. A growing number of women aren’t getting commitments in the form they want — when they want or from the men they want.

So things are going to keep sliding that way. More and more men will walk away and direct what energies they have left elsewhere — into work, or beer/bros/Xbox/porn, or travel/leisure. (Oddly enough, this might make many of them more attractive to women, since they’re spending less time directing their attentions to women.) More and more men will earn just enough to support themselves, since they don’t plan on marriage, and fatherhood is out of the question. They will lack the skills to improve their lives. They will not get nearly as much sex as they want, but they will learn to live with it — mostly through porn, the occasional hookup, and the even more occasional prostitute. The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.

More and more women will direct their attentions into their work, travel/leisure, and having children without men. (This will definitely make more of them less attractive to men except as on again, off again sex partners.) They will not get the commitments from men they want, but they will learn to live with it. They will complain about it with increasing volume and shrillness, but they’ll learn to live with it.

Until something happens to cause the tides to turn. Again – don’t know what, or when, or how. But something will happen to cause a hard reset. And it will be exquisitely painful for everyone. I don’t want it to happen, nor do I relish it. It’s not something to desire or look forward to because of the pain it will bring. But I do think it will happen. I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime or my kids’ lifetimes. We could easily slide like this for another 50 to 100 years.

I think one consequence of this separation of the genders will include a socially normalized institution of cuckoldry. To take hold it will need to be termed something different, but in effect the process of women conceiving with one man and then expecting another man to parentally invest himself in that child will be a casual expectation of women. With so many men effectively (if not intentionally) going their own way, the idea that any man wouldn’t be expected to serve as a surrogate parent will become commonplace.

Genders divided by feminism or feminine social primacy will need a ‘customized’ form of cuckoldry that allows for the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy to be reconciled with the Beta Bucks side by enlisting different men for either purpose.

The Pink Pill

I want to end here with an essay I read recently on the fallout of the new female form of Viagra:

In an infamous cartoon in The New Yorker in 2001, one woman confides to a friend over drinks: ‘I was on hormone replacement for two years before I realized what I really needed was Steve replacement.’ Medicine has been reluctant to engage the question of just how much monogamy and long-term togetherness affect sexual function and desire, and the ‘Steve’ problem remains an issue that is tacitly acknowledged and yet under-discussed. To return to Julie’s growing pile of self-help titles, the books all promise to return, revive, restore without really getting down to the brass tacks of why desire extinguished in the first place. As Julie notes, the honeymoon grinds to an end, but the issues leading there are complex. In short supply is attention to the way mind and body react to social structures such as popular media, faith and marriage.

To develop drugs to boost libido is like ‘giving antibiotics to pigs because of the shit they’re standing in’

The American psychologist Christopher Ryan argues that the institution of modern marriage – meaning an exclusive couple bound by romantic love – is antithetical to long-term excitement. Ryan is best known for Sex at Dawn (2010), a book authored with his wife Cacilda Jethá, that makes the case that sexual monogamy is deeply at odds with human nature. He is among a growing number of researchers suggesting that the rift between women’s purportedly limitless sexual potential and their dulled actuality might owe to the circumstances of intimacy. Accordingly, the conjugal bed is not only the scene of dwindling desire, but its fundamental cause. The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust. While love angles toward intimacy, desire flourishes across a distance.

The entire article is very insightful if not a bit depressing, but with the Red Pill Lens we can begin to understand the latent purpose behind the message. I’ve gone on record about the pushback against clearing the pink pill for use as being a direct threat to women’s control of their own Hypergamy. The concern, ostensibly, is that a libido stimulating drug might be used to induce a woman into having sex that her otherwise sober sense would prevent; effectively it could be a ‘rape’ drug.

What’s finally being addressed in this article however is what I’ve been saying since I was aware of the drug’s trials – a chemical that induces libido in women removes an element of their control in sexual selection and compromises Hypergamy. I’m not entirely sure the author was aware of the points she was revealing in this, but she succinctly makes the case for both institutionalized cuckoldry (or certainly a ‘customized’ soft polygamy for women) and advocates for women maintaining control of their Hypergamy unclouded by a drug that would remove that control by chemically inducing them into sex that isn’t of their own choosing.

The ‘cure’ to women’s low libido is holistic, not biological. Women’s sexual deficiencies are presumed not to be the result of a ‘broken’ biology, but rather a lack of proper motivation. I should point out that all of this validates all the points I was making about Dread in marriage last month on Biblical Gender Roles – maintaining a condition of proper motivation (i.e. Dread), the holistic cure, is exactly what even femosphere authors are tacitly advocating.

The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust.

Yet now, even when a pharmaceutical solution to the lust problem is made available the ‘cure’ is rejected. Why? Because on a root, limbic level women’s hindbrains know that Hypergamy cannot be optimized with a drug that removes Hypergamous choice. The real solution has never changed and women are now put into a position of having to openly acknowledge that for all of the pretense of “mismatched libidos” or “sex just declines after marriage” social conventions, men’s cuckoldry is the real plan for Hypergamy.

When presented with a pill that will make them sexual, when given a cure to their low sex drives with the men who’ve made lifetime commitments to them, women will still refuse to take it. Hypergamous doubt can’t be quelled with a pill.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Liz
Liz
8 years ago

Maybe it was even right after ovulation, rather than right on it, for the boy. I can’t remember exactly now.

newlyaloof
8 years ago

@Andy, after you put the recorder in your own house, you may just find out that one of those other fathers doesn’t always work late. lol.

Andy
Andy
8 years ago

“@Andy, I meant put the recorder IN YOUR OWN HOUSE.”

haha, seems kind of paranoid. I’m well aware of what she may or may not be saying, but right now I don’t think that listening to hours of recorded audio every day looking out for unscrupulous behavior would be too good for my mindset.

newlyaloof
8 years ago

@Andy, I agree, but when your Spidey senses tingle, it doesn’t hurt every once in a blue moon. The few times I did, I found exactly what I expected.

YaReally
8 years ago

@scribblerg “Cuz it was, just 5 years ago. I had a frame and understanding of sex workers that isn’t even that old, but it’s now obsolete.” “This pace of change is unprecedented. It presents a huge challenge even for solidly Red Pill guys” I think a lot of the pushback I get in the Manosphere is because a lot of the Manosphere doesn’t ACTUALLY go out and mack the <25yo crowd. They might go out and mack the general mid/late 20s-30s crowd and occasionally just HAPPEN to end up with a cute 20yo off OKCupid or a sugar daddy site… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
8 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

What webcam site are you talking about? I think I somehow missed this part of the conversation. Is it a prank site?

IAS
IAS
8 years ago

@Liz: it is funny for me (I don’t want to have kids).

I know some people with 3 kids of the same sex, and it is more or less obvious they probably got the third hoping to get the other sex but they probably either just only did it on top of ovulation or maybe were doing it all the time and then the Xs were still lingering and got there before the next batch of Ys could have a chance.

newlyaloof
8 years ago

@YaReally, “Expecting anything else is like expecting your dog to do your taxes…you’re going to be disappointed and it’s not entirely the dog’s fault you’re disappointed.”

lol. I understand. I take blame cause I didn’t know red pill when I got married, so the training wasn’t there for too long. But all I want is a dog that wags it’s tail when it sees me come home from a long day at work. I swear, I think actually getting a new dog on the side would help.

Andy
Andy
8 years ago

“I swear, I think actually getting a new dog on the side would help.”

I second that emotion.

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

IAS, High G forces kill boy swimmers, too!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3619847

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

@Striver – A problematic “Speculative bubble” can only be created with borrowed money. So there is no bubble in the sexual marketplace. @Wild Man – The relevant metaphysics of buddhism are that we are all living in a delusion. We interpret our 5 senses delusionally and assemble a “reality” in our minds that is nothing of the sort. We are driving by needs and accordingly, the mix of the delusions and cravings create endless human suffering. To a buddhist is to see the human condition as primarily characterized by suffering (neatly, this creates the need for Buddhism, lol, it’s just… Read more »

shmiggen
8 years ago

Rollo gets it wrong in this post. A woman who takes the female viagra pill is probably already too old to cuck. Hypergamy means nothing to a mid 40’s woman.

Andy
Andy
8 years ago

@shmiggen

Sadly, you’re wrong.

http://therationalmale.com/2015/03/16/making-up-for-missing-out/

agent p
agent p
8 years ago

@yareally so when I locked my wife out of the house the other night knowing she would freak out, she had to call me to let her in after her GNO watch movies at a friends house because she had forgotten her keys, which I knew because she had told me, so she calls my cell while I am in bed and I tell her “I guess I could let her in” She stands on the porch totally indignant yelling at me when I open the door finally after making her wait”I GUESS I COULD LET YOU IN!!!! WTF????blah blah… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@scribblerg – Yeah, Buddhism doesn’t do justice to the human experience for me either. I didn’t go practice it but read quite a bit when I was younger, and what got me about it is their idea of karma is contingent on the so-called phenomenon of reincarnation. Philosophically sloppy. But their idea that everything is connected to everything else is of value I think. To me, the best way to describe what it feels like to be a humans is: – this realm is a finite precipitate of the infinite. I made that up myself. That short phrase captures it… Read more »

theasdgamer
8 years ago

@ YaReally we could just tell ourselves “I’m sure they’re as sad as I am and regret it” because we don’t see the Instagram pic of them drunk in a bar making out with some other dude 2 days after they dumped you. It’s not just the <25 yo crowd doing this. I see broads over 50 doing this shit, too. Even before dumping you they'll be chasing some other dick. It percolates up the age ladder and older broads don't want to be behind the curve with the competition so fierce near the bottom of the SMV pool. I… Read more »

theasdgamer
8 years ago

@ schmiggen

Rollo gets it wrong in this post. A woman who takes the female viagra pill is probably already too old to cuck. Hypergamy means nothing to a mid 40’s woman.

You obviously don’t get out among divorced women over 40.

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

She’s probably doing chaturbate now:

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@the asdgamer – I will 2nd that with respect to women over 45. Hypergamy alive and well there too! But it is cool to see that some of them have more awareness around it, are a bit anxiety-stricken due to this (different flavor of anxiety than the women of say 35, wall-age), and what I sense is that the hormonal changes allow this new perspective among the older ladies (i.e – the younger women seem comfortably oblivious about much of their self-serving hypergamous behavior, within their rich cocoon of estrogen).

scray
scray
8 years ago

@Ya

“The field is king.”

Yeah. That’s why I just lol when people on here or anywhere talk about web cam girls — do they know any? I do. Or how hotties who have done porn or stripped or modeled are this or that or whatever — have they slept with any? I have.

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@scray – I have too (plus are acquainted with others). The more they done the crazier they are (at least in my limited experience).

kfg
kfg
8 years ago

“The 1950s alcohol-free party on Sat. night . . .”

KFG’s Maxim #Something or Other: The 50’s ain’t what they used to be.

scray
scray
8 years ago

@wildman

“I have too (plus are acquainted with others). The more they done the crazier they are (at least in my limited experience).”

What do you mean by crazy?

Test you constantly? Ya sure. Just laugh.

If they’re ‘crazier’ then immediate soft Next protocol (you have to be working in a place of super abundance to have these girls).

David
David
8 years ago

I thought a problem with the pink pill was that it has frequent significant side effects, much worse than say Viagra does for men. If I were a woman, given those side effects I’d be hesitant to take it, too.

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@scray – crazy to the point of being quite unpredictable (i.e. – more unpredictable than women who don’t overtly see sex = money, at least in some circumstances). It is beyond testing I would say. It starts to get into the realm of crazy. Best to next as you say (or better yet – don’t get involved in the first place). Look – I live in a place where that kind of lifestyle means the woman is probably hanging with thugs some of the time. So that may have something to do with it. I can see that a place… Read more »

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

We are destroying our (western civilization’) ability to go to war and win. Hiring mercenaries wont work: ask the Romans. Theirs turned on them and destroyed their civilization. We are headed to the dustbin of history. I’d advise to put things in perspective. If it has to go to the dustbin, it will. There’s nothing more to it. There are enormous historical forces at work here. The simply fact is that civilizations are never regenerated. When they go into inevitable decline, they either adapt and get transformed, or they simply perish. In other words, they get replaced, one way or… Read more »

kfg
kfg
8 years ago

TL;DR -Feminists Don’t Understand Medicine:

kfg
kfg
8 years ago

” I find it inconceivable . . .”

You keep using that word.

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@hoellenhund2 – I agree. I think your view on this balanced. So perhaps, from your birdseye perspective, it is not out of line to ask what elements of our culture might be worthy of informing what is to come? Your thoughts? As well, since our war technology is so vast now, it would be a whole lot better if things change via the cultural-smear route instead of perishing by the fire of our own hands. I don’t think it is ill-informed for people to worry about avoiding that at this juncture. The religious war that has been underway for some… Read more »

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

The roles have reversed and no one is happy but there’s no way to fix it because fixing it would require “limiting women’s freedom” which can’t be done without insane backlash and has to be done voluntarily BY the women…which, as I’ve mentioned, I think will happen down the road when their aunts and sisters and friends and mothers are all living with 8 cats and crying themselves to sleep at night in their lonely beds serving as a warning to future generations of girls who will voluntarily figure out how to correct this shit. They won’t figure out anything,… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
8 years ago
Reply to  hoellenhund2

Nature abores a vacuum. Sharia as brutal as it is, is doing just that. The Muslims are saying do this bitch or die. They are leading the women and killing the opposition.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
8 years ago

YaReally I think a lot of the pushback I get in the Manosphere is because a lot of the Manosphere doesn’t ACTUALLY go out and mack the <25yo crowd. Don’t even have to go that far. Talk to college instructors. The <25 students have a definite special-snowflake air about them, some places they tend to go crying to authority at the drop of a grade because some instructor or professor is "too hard! too mean!". Bunch of crybabies, but they've been told how Special they are their whole lives so it's a shock when some adult interacts with them IRL.… Read more »

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

So perhaps, from your birdseye perspective, it is not out of line to ask what elements of our culture might be worthy of informing what is to come? Your thoughts? That’s kind of simple. Any element that didn’t contribute to the current predicament is worthy. In other words, Churchianity, egalitarianism, blank-statism, feminism and other forms of leftism, liberalism, white-knightery can all perish, and hopefully they will, just like the dogmas of bygone ancient religions have perished. Because ultimately that’s what they all are: worthless, shitty dogmas. As well, since our war technology is so vast now, it would be a… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

And here’s how the FI plays out in the Western Buddhist community, it’s so ridiculous to read that I just have to include it all. Please scroll by if going to long annoys you. The rest of you? Try not to puke. It’s called “To all the Single Ladies”. http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/11/for-all-the-single-ladies-this-is-why-we-are-still-single/ http://images.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/single-lady.jpg “Instead of ‘single’ as a marital status…I prefer ‘independently owned and operated’.” ~ Avinash Wandre We are single because we have chosen to not settle for less than we deserve. We are single because we have discovered our own worth shining like brilliant diamonds underneath the hardened dry earth.… Read more »

bnon
bnon
8 years ago

Rollo, are you not afraid of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Having the redpill community rebel against the Female Imperative is one thing, but guiding those kids on how to cook up ways in which it’ll all turn worse will only make everybody (in particular the opposition) more aware of the possibilities.

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

These students aren’t protesting because life is hard, they’re protesting because life is too easy and they’re so fucking bored by it that they need to do ANYTHING to feel some kind of emotion, they want to feel outrage and passion and drive and anger and hatred and victimization etc because that’s what we want as humans. It’s much simpler than that. I’ve read about the recent scandal about “racism” at the University of Missouri, and the demands of the BLM propagandist shitbags. They ultimately all boil down to them wanting comfy AA make-work gummint jobs as administrators, officials and… Read more »

The Lone Planet
The Lone Planet
8 years ago

The exit on your right is the only way. Everything else is bullshit.

“Never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon.” – Rorschach

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@scribblerg – re your post about the women of the Western Buddhist community, yikes – like I was saying before – it is like staring into the existentially endless black-hole of narcissism. Scary. These are the same women that gush bigtime for a guru to submit to. And in complete denial about it. Because in way, it’s not about the guru, but about themselves. The guru is just a proxy for their need to submit to the godhead as the only worthy counterpart to their utter narcissistic awesomeness. That is why this shit scares me. When I see this I… Read more »

scray
scray
8 years ago

@wildman ” It is beyond testing I would say. It starts to get into the realm of crazy.” Hm. I only have experience in a big city with a lot of celebrity culture, etc., so I’ll trust you on this ‘where you’re from’ dynamic. Like, I know a lot of these girls run with drug dealers and classically alpha guys. But once shit gets too ‘unpredictable’ or whatever, it’s just soft Next shutdown. Go have those other dudes feed your need for drama lol. Come back when you want to suck my dick and chill 🙂 “I think that type… Read more »

neoconned
neoconned
8 years ago

I have some serious doubts that enough men will go along with this scheme for it to become a societal norm. Nice try.

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@hoellenhund2 – in my view much of what is currently going awry in the west is that the shitlib camp completely misunderstands and twists what the egalitarian actually is (but hey I don’t want to argue that point anymore, just saying, to make it clear I don’t agree with that part of your conclusions, but I am happy just to agree to disagree).

Striver
Striver
8 years ago

Regarding the 40+ female set, I agree. Rollo’s chart is not all that useful. Men might do a little better, but not that much without upping game. I have still had some run Facebook crap or try to get orbiters at almost 50. Maybe if the chick has gained a lot of weight. Then they sometimes change personality. But if they look good for their age, or are in the same SMV for age, it doesn’t change that much. You are still going to have to game them, maybe a little less, but you still need game. If you aren’t… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

@Hollen, Wild et al – Where’s it all going? Not claiming to know either but I have a few insights you might want to keep in mind. Complexity – Could our grandfathers have imagined the world we exist in today just 100 years ago? A complex system like human civilization – 8x larger than it was 100 years ago – is going to evolve (not technically evolution, fyi) in ways that we simply can’t imagine. Just consider if we hadn’t created the internet. The pace – Technological and social change is happening faster. This means looking to the past for… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
8 years ago

YaReally
Check out the campus protests going on lately. They’re actively fighting to LIMIT free speech

“Ban BadFeelz!”, the new campus crusade.

Wild Man
Wild Man
8 years ago

@scribblerg – nice overview of current cultural conditions. I agree with everything you say, – and furthermore, it seems to me that – “The Age of Reason is over and its been replaced by feelz” is because we are now stymied to some degree at the deep frontiers of scientific endeavor. I am hopeful though. I think that the current dynamic can change. There is some stuff coming down the pipeline now, computer-algorithm-wise, like DeepMind (which I think was based on neural network research), that is showing alot of real world efficacy, for which a deep understanding of the mathematical… Read more »

ZR12
ZR12
8 years ago

Rollo, honestly what does it matter to you? No disrespect to you personally. I enjoy reading your work, and consider you and Dalrock to be the two most erudite writers in this part of the internet. But what do you care if cuckoldry becomes widespread? For an anglo ideal such as yourself, it just means more sex for you. It’s the remaining 90% of guys who will really suffer.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
8 years ago

@Rollo,
Great post.
Rollo, “Hypergamy doesn’t care about nationalism, patriotism or even long term fidelity to the men who might fail in defending a woman from that invading force.”

95% of men have no clue about it.
Ps,
The war brides is my favorite post of the rational male. (men can’t handle the truth)

A Visitor
A Visitor
8 years ago

Disgusting they’re openly promoting it but can’t say I’m not surprised.

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

@Rollo – Damn, I somehow missed that post when I read up, wow. Guys, make sure you re-read “What’s your problem?” It’s a rallying cry, and a necessary one.

A Visitor
A Visitor
8 years ago

Also, thanks for pointing me to Donal’s blog a little over a year ago. It’s been good, to say the least.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
8 years ago

Hypergamy doesn’t care if you’re a Democrat or a Republican, if you’re a capitalist or socialist.

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

@Keyser – And? Your statement is what is known as “a distinction without a difference”. Sounds good though, especially if said with brio, lol. Talk about the tyranny of aesthetics…

Yollo Comanche
Yollo Comanche
8 years ago

Pink pill? Make her swallow it!

Then again, if the little spud in question were the sort to make her swallow things in the first place, he probably wouldn’t be there trying to fill a prescription.

Sooo much shit to catch up on in order to finally build a useful frame for myself.

@YaReally. You’ve been so useful for my edifying dude.

@Liz. Now THAT is a useful little tip. More research for me to do…

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

I was looking at that pic I posted of the Buddhist chick up the thread and I realized she’s doing a perfect rendition of the “1000 Cock Stare”. She’s looking out towards the horizon for more and greater tingles, it’s a reflex by now and she can’t change it. She’s been so conditioned due to a life of privilege and solipsistic inanity and being catered to that she simply believes the essence of life is being satiated. She craves only what makes her feel good, nothing else exists for. Fucking swayback, tatted up whore. Fyi, her screed is the opposite… Read more »

SJF
SJF
8 years ago

@Rollo, ScribblerG

Yes, that essay “What’s Your Problem” is literary genius. A fantastically written essay.

It does seem to be buried and hard to find. I have referred to it a few times in the past year but have found it hard to remember the title and search for it again.

I would suggest it be put on the title page manifest at the top of TRM next to About, Year One, Year Two…. Donate, Etc.

Simply brilliant. It puts truth to the idea that for some of us old guys who hold that, quite simply, everything matters.

kobayashii1681
8 years ago

Real.Talk!!!!!!

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
8 years ago

@scribblerg,
Hypergamy doesn’t care about capitalist or socialist fathers.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
8 years ago

For Glenn, with love.
Hypergamy doesn’t care about how many books you read.

Unknown
Unknown
8 years ago

Wow. I really worry for the future of men. I also worry for my soon to be born son’s future.

I guess my question is when will men finally realize they’re being screwed by the feminine imperative and not allow something such as open cuckoldry? When will men realize they have to jump through millions of hoops and walk on eggshells in order to cater to what is considered the socially acceptable way to treat women? When will men finally take a stand and realize they’re being fucked and not allow the feminism to be in control?

ZR12
ZR12
8 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi

http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/whats-your-problem/
Response firmly recognized. Respect.

Col Trautman
Col Trautman
8 years ago

@Last Coyote, way up in the thread, also to anyone discussing the speed of upcoming changes. Nothing we can even fathom (socially) will take a 100 years or even 50 or even 20, imo. The internet is speeding up social evolution 50 fold, also causing it to veer off into realms/behaviors that we’ve never had before, therefore can hardly predict. @Unknown. Good luck with your son. I would be very worried too. One thing I’d do is take him overseas for a summer when he’s 14, maybe 15. Take him around the world to Rio, Croatia, Thailand etc. Give him… Read more »

Unknown
Unknown
8 years ago
Reply to  Col Trautman

I’m American, yes. Thanks for the reply.

kobayashii1681
8 years ago

@benfromtexas: “Your daughter wrote you a warning slip? That’s classic, & what’s next detention?”

http://funny-pics-fun.com/wp-content/uploads/Funny-Laughing-Face-Contagious-Laughter-13.jpg

Awww….man, some funny shit right there!

SJF
SJF
8 years ago

@kfg
December 7th, 2015 at 6:03 pm

Well played. Lol, nice post.

Col Trautman
Col Trautman
8 years ago

@Farm Legend,

Speaking of things that seem like a manosphere parody;

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153675697549564&set=a.167997404563.118116.601769563&type=3&theater

First he belittles his own masculinity then reels off manosphere no-no’s point by point. The subordination he shows is cringey.

witness
witness
8 years ago

“Incorrect. A cuck is a man whose wife has intercourse with anyone other than himself. With or without his knowledge and/or consent. Your approval doesn’t uncuck you, if anything it solidifies it. ” I agree with this definition, though not if its an open relationship where the guy is also free to sleep with other women.While the term came from the cuckoo bird and the surrogate raising of their off spring by other birds, it seems to have expanded to now mostly encompass men who let other guys fuck their wife/gf. There is no expending of resources to benefit the… Read more »

kobayashii1681
8 years ago

@Farm Legend:
On Jason hewlett formerly known as male, if ever…

http://frenchyincali.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/wtf-what-the-fuck-meme-winnie-pooh.jpg

This is how our sons are being raised today, fully emasculated, female-approval seeking, needy, PC, chivalrous, spineless, woman worshippers…

http://www.troll.me/images/brick-tamland/what-a-fucking-retard.jpg

Fuck me!

SJF
SJF
8 years ago

Lol

kobayashii1681
8 years ago

On Western buddhist bitches:
“When we are asked, “Why is a woman like you single?”

We can simply say, “It’s because I am a woman like me, that I am single.”

No further explanation necessary.

Because single doesn’t mean there is something wrong or lacking within us—it just means we paint in colors not everyone has seen.”

But of course! These are the millennials and so on I see calling themselves ‘sapiosexuals’ nowadays…

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/ucomeheretocrymore/2219008-okay_whatever_you_say_zps0d4e0281.jpg

#womenarerjustnotdeep

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
8 years ago

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ocaN91tXzVo

Who do you think she’d use for cuckold?

kfg
kfg
8 years ago

“Your daughter wrote you a warning slip? That’s classic, & what’s next detention?”

As a matter of fact, yes. It’s funny until it happens to you:

comment image

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

@Ya, Wildand the other guy – Yeah, plates will fuck other guys and to get uptight about it is crazy. When they get out of line, soft-next, exactly what I’ve done in a couple of circumstances. I’m learning to not hard-next, and it works. One hottie came back around twice over a year, very nice. But then there are the cray-cray types. Fyi, I’ve fucked strippers, massage girls, dommes and a porn actor, so I get how to be with these women. But sometimes you just find one who really is nutz and your run like hell. I’ve always had… Read more »

Dubya
Dubya
8 years ago

I’ve been a lurker/reader and RP (gagged first, then swallowed) now for about 6 months. I stumbled upon Rollo’s blog by accident when I was searching about cuckoldry in May. I started reading his blog and then I couldn’t stop. I’ve been waiting for the right time to make my first post and share myself because I credit my awakening to this blog. To start with, I’m a married male (27 years) in my late 40’s and was raised by a very caring mother; mostly by herself. I was taught to be the respectful nice guy. Grown into a gentleman… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
8 years ago

Glad everyone here is helping me be a man.

Paul Murray
8 years ago

“The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.” Won’t happen. As it becomes more difficult to find a man to support them, women will flood into prostitution, exposing the current image of what being a prostitute is like is basically a pack of lies. We are already seeing this: tv specials about proud, independent women making decent money. These women will apply political pressure towards legalisation (we are already seeing this, too). The decline will be a fine time: hookers and cannabis for… Read more »

stuttie
8 years ago

@ Dubya – always great reading RP success stories like yours. Sounds like things are working out re the wife, but be careful to calibrate the overt displays of dread. I forget which of Rollo’s posts it was in, but sub-communicating dread covertly can be more effective than overt displays.

@ all – came across this link in a CH tread…

http://www.tagthesponsor.com/home

YaReally
8 years ago

@agent p wtf lol I mean, let us know how it works out in a couple days. Way too complicated a situation for me to guess at and being married she can ALWAYS pull the divorce card on you and fuck you over (unless you can convince her that a divorce threat holds no power over you which is the ideal but is probably something you have to build from day 1 or over a long period of time). But like, it’s OKAY for a girl to feel bad. Society has told us we have to do everything we can… Read more »

theasdgamer
8 years ago

@ Dubya

Congrats on your awakening and progress!

YaReally
8 years ago

lol: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-52148-post-1164862.html#pid1164862 Roosh sez: “Getting the word out will be counterproductive as long as they dont have the media on their side, which seems to be the case. I’d just lay low for the two or three weeks that this takes to blow over. Besides them posting a couple flyers or taking paparazzi pictures, I doubt it will escalate further. ” aka “bro, I’M the manosphere martyr, don’t steal my fuckin publicity, just lay low plz!!” Also for anyone who wondered about the behind-the-scenes of that whole RSD Julien Blanc fiasco went down, here’s Julien explaining how and why he… Read more »

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

““The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.” Won’t happen. As it becomes more difficult to find a man to support them, women will flood into prostitution, exposing the current image of what being a prostitute is like is basically a pack of lies. We are already seeing this: tv specials about proud, independent women making decent money. These women will apply political pressure towards legalisation (we are already seeing this, too). The decline will be a fine time: hookers and cannabis for… Read more »

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

Won’t happen. As it becomes more difficult to find a man to support them, women will flood into prostitution, exposing the current image of what being a prostitute is like is basically a pack of lies. We are already seeing this: tv specials about proud, independent women making decent money. These women will apply political pressure towards legalisation (we are already seeing this, too). The decline will be a fine time: hookers and cannabis for all. I agree that it won’t happen; in fact, the opposite will happen i.e. demand for prostitution will drop. But I think the reasons will… Read more »

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

I think Matt Forney is retarded (the classic big-talker about women but I’ve seen vids of him at bars and it’s like, no, plz stop pretending you’ve touched a vagina above a 5 before lol) I’ve been a regular reader of his from the beginning, and I can assure you that PUA has never been the focus of his blogging. He always treated it as a marginal issue, and never pretended to regularly bone hot chicks. On the other hand, I can’t fucking stand his anti-MGTOW rants. I find it hilarious that he has become a promoter of the Rooshian… Read more »

hoellenhund2
8 years ago

There’s no groups of feminists picketing all the nightclubs to keep them out, the company isn’t about to collapse, they haven’t lost any of their customers, Julien is still doing world tours flying around the world teaching bootcamps

Wasn’t his Japanese and British visa revoked?

theasdgamer
8 years ago

@ agent_p

Like YaReally says, reward her. Roller coasters need ups as well as downs.

theasdgamer
8 years ago

Lol at liz OCDing about sexcams and hoes. Must be a cycle thingie. lolz

YaReally
8 years ago

Also on the Julien Fiasco, here’s how he uses that controversy infield to get laid too, he has a full out routine for it where his buddy pretends to be someone who recognizes him and shows her the CNN footage etc (the whole video is a good video for the newbies too like averagechump and whoever else is having frustration and thinking it’s impossible to get good at this, Julien talks about his early days in the game and how much he struggled): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwTWc4APKEA&t=8m21s @hoellenhund2 “I find it hilarious that he has become a promoter of the Rooshian nonsense about… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
8 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

I’ve seen those videos and I’ve done this lately. It works, and I never thought it would work so well but it does!

theasdgamer
8 years ago

@ agent_p

Be careful and calibrate carefully!

Matt
Matt
8 years ago

@Yareally – the 10 year waiting game may be ok for men who don’t mind spinning plates and all the effort required, but it will significantly increase the chances of marrying an alpha widow. Every year after 30 for a man increases the chance he’s marrying an AW, unless of course, you become her apex alpha as rollo has previously described. The problem is in discerning the truth of this. Women are masters of the front game. On a side note, someone mentioned waitress flirting as good soft-dread game. I totally agree. My married uncle does this extremely well and… Read more »

Dutchman
Dutchman
8 years ago

Former neighbors/friends I knew a few years ago actually had this situation, more or less. Wife was a tall HB8, husband was the typical “single alpha/relationship beta” type. He actually married her when she was pregnant with some other guy’s kid to “do the right thing” or some bullshit. About 6 months after I met them, there were rumors that she was fucking some other dude, which both of them denied. One day they had a big fight and decided to separate, so she basically went straight over to that dude’s house and spent the night. He rationalized it as… Read more »

Dutchman
Dutchman
8 years ago

@Farm Legend,

“Speaking of things that seem like a manosphere parody;”

I wonder how many PMs that chick has received since that post from knowing alpha interlopers.

theasdgamer
8 years ago

For YaReally, lol

Andy
Andy
8 years ago

“Even after interacting with Rollo in previous posts, I still think the jump in SMV is primarily attributed to career advancement, which makes you a better beta bucks.”

@Matt

I can only speak for myself, but I think there’s a maturity level that comes along with age. Like by this point in life hopefully you’ve persevered through some pretty serious shit that just builds character and just makes you more naturally attractive. Kind of like you’re prepared deal with whatever life throws at you. That’s my theory.

theasdgamer
8 years ago

@ Matt

If male smv has the capacity to reach its peak by 35

Men’s intelligence continues to increase until about age 53…if this intelligence is applied to game, old farts will dominate.

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

Re: Pros – I’ve dabbled with professional sex, and also have an RP friend who is a dedicated consumer of pros in NYC. He regularly bangs latina and black girls, HB5 and better for under 100 a pop. Go to Backpage, look at the ads, while there are a lot of fake pics of course, you’ll see what the market price for pussy is. It hasn’t budged in 20 years, which means in real terms that it’s been going down steadily. Fyi, white girls are twice the price…You can get a decent woman to fuck for 150-250, but you will… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago

As for male SMV increasing with age till about 35 according to the SMV graph, I think the following is relevant: – Male fertility doesn’t fall off the way a woman’s does, this is a big part of the reason their SMV drops. – Longer life is a defacto demonstration of fitness – Older men tend to be more confident and have higher social status and more social intelligence. I was listening to some 24ish guy running his game on a young hottie the other night and he literally couldn’t put an intelligent sentence together and his “alphaness” was all… Read more »

Stultus Sum
8 years ago

Rollo, correct me if I’m wrong, but has traditional Marriage effectively become a “Slut Insurance” policy that Beta type guys are expected to pay premiums for?

Also, I have a 15 yo son who seems to be in the Beta training program with the girls at his High School. How should I introduce him to this world of open hypergamy he’s about to inherit?

I don’t want him to tread blindly into this very dangerous reality but I don’t know how much info he can handle, given is age appropriate immaturity.

YaReally
8 years ago

@Matt “but it will significantly increase the chances of marrying an alpha widow. Every year after 30 for a man increases the chance he’s marrying an AW” …wut? No YOU wait, but you still date bang and settle with the <25yo girls lol Personally I think somewhere in the 23-25 range is best. They're not as retarded as the <23yo's but haven't started down the jaded "my life isn't turning out how I thought it would" cynicism/depression the 26+yo's hit. So you have the same chance of ending up with an AW at 40 as you did at 30 or… Read more »

Dutchman
Dutchman
8 years ago

@Stultus

“I don’t want him to tread blindly into this very dangerous reality but I don’t know how much info he can handle, given is age appropriate immaturity.”

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The society is structured in such a way that anybody with fairly Beta tendencies is just going to get chewed up and spit out unless you go FULL BORE with red pill immunization. Just start talking to him about this stuff, and show him this site, CH, YaReally’s archive, Dalrock, etc. Age appropriate concerns are just a giant guilt trip/shit test.

YaReally
8 years ago

@Rollo
“After my Vegas commercial shoot escapade last month I’m inclined to agree with you.”

FIELD EXPERIENCE IS KING.

lol

IAS
IAS
8 years ago

@Rollo and YaReally, on hooking up with 23-25s when you are 38 to 45: that is really a *silver lining*.

YaReally: I asked a while ago but you probably missed it (or I missed your reply in the middle of your huge comments).
I was wondering about trying out the RSD Free Tour when they come to one of the European cities. But I’m married and not wanting to cheat, so I don’t know how much I’d get from that. Thoughts?

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
8 years ago
Reply to  IAS

I’d go if I was you. You’ll get a lot of field experience.

annoyinggorilla
8 years ago

In yer face hypergamy.

Andy
Andy
8 years ago

“Just start talking to him about this stuff, and show him this site, CH, YaReally’s archive, Dalrock, etc. ” I plan on just correcting any beta tendencies when I see them. On the bright side they’re born Alpha. You’re working from a position of strength if they’re young. They’ll also take cues from your marriage. I plan on explaining that girls and boys are different, and never believe anyone that suggests otherwise. Teach them that girls need boys to lead… Also, like, kids making fun of your star wars t-shirt? Just a shit test. Explain to them how to pass… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
8 years ago
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