A common refrain I hear from even some well meaning Red Pill aware men is that there is some degree of disdain for the “Beta” man in the sphere. There’s not so much a rejection of apparent Red Pill truths as there is a schoolyard mentality when it comes to characterizing a guy as Alpha or Beta. This is where where a lot of guys turn themselves off to the Red Pill in a community sense.
In a way I suppose it becomes reminiscent of guys having been bullied in their formative years by the guys they now have a mental image of being archetypically “Alpha”. So it follows that concepts like AMOGing or running a ‘Boyfriend Destroyer’ script is distasteful; a lot of men, that is to say the 80%+ Beta men, have likely experienced this disqualification in direct or indirect ways in their youth. Sometimes that may simply be a girl he had his ONEitis sights set on opting for a more Alpha guy after telling him she wasn’t ready for a relationship, or it may be a more direct experience of having sand metaphorically kicked in his face.
Thus it becomes a matter of course to entirely dismiss the nuts & bolts understanding of how abstracts like Alpha and Beta are used in the sphere. The default understanding goes something like this, “Those Red Pillers just hate on Betas to build themselves up” or some other version of this where the Red Pill becomes a Machiavellian free for all at the expense of other, ‘lesser’, men.
It’s either this or the abstractions of Alpha and Beta are reduced to absurd binary interpretations; Alphas become ridiculous ‘douchebag’ parodies and Betas become pathetic, simpering doormats for the world to tread upon. In either case the purpose of reducing these abstracts as such is an effort in dismissing the uncomfortable, as well as evidently observable qualities and truths of the intersexual environment that plays out around us.
For the record I think it’s important for Red Pill men to remain as objective and disinvested from making qualitative assumptions about what constitutes the Alpha and Beta abstractions. I don’t hate, pity or resent Beta men. Neither do I embrace the idea that Alpha archetypes as necessarily positive or negative. For the moment however, I’m going to focus on Beta men.
The Presumption of Control
As I mentioned above, one of the primary dismissals men have when they encounter Red Pill thought is to blow it off because “it’s all just a bunch of hating on Betas.” And that presumption comes only if a guy is willing to consider the abstracts of Alpha and Beta in the first place – most simply don’t want to recognize specific ‘statuses’ or defining characteristics of men or women, and just fall back on the “all is relative, all is subjective” mindset they’ve been conditioned to. People are People, there is no human “nature” so there is no male or female “nature”.
But for the guy who at least accepts the idea of human natures, I can certainly understand the reservations of men whose identities were conditioned to a more Beta role. There’s not much positive to characterize a Beta mindset with beyond the utility that conditioning serves to society and women’s sexual strategy. Betas do in fact get laid; the terms on which, and how their sexuality fits their utilitarian role in women’s Hypergamous plan is the real question.
I was recently asked if I thought Beta men employing Beta Game was a successful strategy in the larger scheme of things. If success means that Beta Game will get him laid, I’m incredulous about it. The presumption is that the Beta man employing that ‘game’ is in some way directing and controlling the outcome of his ‘success’. I’d argue that what he believes is ‘game’ is simply his utility to a woman coming into an optimal window for her necessity of him. So is his ‘strategy’ really successful, or is he simply the best ‘Plan B‘ a woman has available to her while her own SMV decays to the point where he’s her best option?
Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?
I think a lot of what guys new to the manosphere perceive as Beta hate is simply the presumption of control they believe they should be able to exercise with women. After having been told for the the better part of their lives that the more accommodating and identifying with women they are will lead to them being accepted by women it’s a presumption that this is some means of socially acceptable control for them.
It’s very galling to have men place fault on a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and men frustrated with intersexual dynamics taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves.
It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have the pains and strivings that society demands of them be rewarded with women’s genuine intimate interests focusing on Alpha men.
That sucks.
PUAs telling a guy it’s on him as to why women are boring to him, or uninterested in him sexually, only reinforces that angst. It’s like a pastor telling you that if you’d only prayed harder or more earnestly God would have cured your Mom of cancer. So they hate the Alpha, they hate the PUA, they hate the hotchickswithdouchebags guy, but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in. It presumes a control that he believes he’s never had, nor ever will.
So there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in his Blue Pill presumption that people are people and in the equalist notion that women’s hindbrains can (willingly) be overridden when it comes to arousal, attraction and intersexual dynamics. Again, if there is no human nature it should stand to reason that a woman could potentially choose that Beta for all the reasons he’s been conditioned to believe she should choose him for. If there is a female nature, and that nature follows (with some degree of consistency) Red Pill aware truths, then his frustrations are founded on his own lack.
But these guys aren’t Blue Pill oblivious men, they are Red Pill aware. They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in. So when these guys are put into that place they have a few choices: Snap and take out themselves and as many others as they can, go isolationist MGTOW and retreat to minimal societal investment, go MRA and impotently try to enact legislation that they think will even the social playing filed from the top down, or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.
The Burden of Fault
Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance. That burden includes your liability of accepting fault even for things that aren’t your fault per se. It’s not your fault that you were born and raised into a feminine-primary social order that conditioned you to be an accommodating utility for it – but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.
Is that fucked up? Yes. So with that in mind it is up to you as a Red Pill aware Man to decide for yourself what is worth your investment. Yes my friend, women can be amazing, interesting vivacious and fun, but they can also be fucked up and stupid and absolutely not worth your time, money and effort. It isn’t your fault they are the way they are, but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.
With all of the railing against women not being worthwhile one would think that would prompt these men to being indifferent to women – but they aren’t. Even the most ardent MGTOW and hapless Beta Red Pill denier still wants women; he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that. There’s nothing wrong with this desire, this is precisely what I advise with regards to Frame control, but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.
Get Out There
I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal, but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.
For almost 20 years I have made a living doing exactly this. I have worked in gaming, liquor and brand development ventures that have put me into venues that range from Goth/Alternative/Hipster sets to LGBT events, to mixing with men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists. My career, family and personal life has been my Red Pill classroom and laboratory for all this, and in all of these contexts I have found a way to enjoy myself and/or learn from these interactions.
One reason I will never look to writing Red Pill books as a career option is because it would remove me from the very source of my observations. Living it is the only way keep learning from it. On my own time, I would very likely prefer to lock myself in my studio and paint or sculpt, or to create something new to work into a brand, often to the exclusion of my wife and family and the many friends I have. I’m a very social guy, but I would probably not feel compelled to head off to a night club or any of the events I involve myself in professionally on a weekly basis.
When I’m doing a promo, I know I’m not going to hook up, so I find enjoyment in watching and learning from what I see going on around me. I can’t drink when I’m on a promo or doing a trade show, so even that can’t be a source enjoyment. So why fucking do it right? I make money at it, and it beats living in a cubicle, but I’d much rather be creating new things, new brands, new ideas than interacting with half-buzzed hipsters who think they’re too cool to be there or obnoxious 40 something divorcés ‘sampling’ vodka and hoping to drink their spinsterhood away.
I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks. It’s what I invest myself in. That may sound like torture to you, but it’s really contextual. I have friends I’ve made at underground Goth events who would blanch at the thought of what I do at a golf tournament. I’m not saying you need to be a social chameleon, but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.
Don’t Hate the Beta
As I mentioned earlier, I don’t hate Beta men. For a long time in my Blue Pill past I was one of them, and I can fully understand the want to mischaracterize an Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.
I don’t think Beta men are hopeless, but they will remain in a state of hopelessness so long as they subscribe to a want of making things easier for their condition rather than improving themselves to better play the Game. That’s hard to hear for most Beta men and I understand the protective need for denial in this, but I know of very few Red Pill men who really despise Beta or Blue Pill men. They despise his indentured state, they despise his willful obliviousness to his conditioned uses. They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.
Go get it.
Chump No More ” I found my frame, took my life back and walked away… quite literally started over, and haven’t looked back once. I reconnected with my passion, Engineering (and blowing shit up sub-atomically) and since rediscovering my frame and becoming my MPO, my career has advanced beyond all my expectations. Everyday, my health, my career, my relationships, my quality of life… all are better than the day before. I credit this to internalizing self-improvement as my core value, post becoming RP aware. Everything else are just perks from owning my shit and being awesome.” Yes. Notice there is… Read more »
benfromtexas All of the ” old man ” hate hurts mah feelllzzz. Then Rocket types some really mean-spirited stuff about older men talking and not fucking…I paraphrase. Ouch. Maybe we suffer from excess confidence. I’m sure there must be a pill or something for that. A couple of years ago my dad was rushed to hospital with blood pressure in the triple digits, diastolic and systolic. He HATES hospitals with a passion. He goes into an exam room and has to remove his shirt so they can hook up ekg’s and shit. A couple of nurses tell him that he… Read more »
Well said. You’re right by the way about percentages. I’ve found around 10-15% of younger 20’s women will easily, and I do mean EASILY bang older men in their thirties, fourties, or even fifties. Another 10-15% will with a bit of an effort by maybe meeting for a drink at a dive bar or a structured dating environment. I’ve found that roughly 1 out of 3 I’m able to bang if I put in the effort to game them.
P. S.
I’m stealing that axe handle shit. That’s 100% golden!
FWIW, I’ve been shooting a brand commercial for the last 3 days. In that time I’ve had invitations to ‘party’ with at least half a dozen girls from the cast and about 7 extras. All were no less than HB8s on my very demanding scale, all were between 23 and 30. And 4 of them know I’m married.
Cool. Old guys rock! Even the younger “old guys” like Rollo. [wink]
I’ll just leave this here.
“FWIW, I’ve been shooting a brand commercial for the last 3 days. In that time I’ve had invitations to ‘party’ with at least half a dozen girls from the cast and about 7 extras. All were no less than HB8s on my very demanding scale, all were between 23 and 30. And 4 of them know I’m married.”
Is that AF or BB?
@keyser Soze “The open Hypergamy is huge in the elite Muslim society, so is women’s self entitlement. But among the poor gameless Muslim beta men, they are faced with women’s entitlement . Why would an alpha Muslim man who lives in Burj Khalifa (the tallest building in the world)in Dubai become Daesh?” It’s more of the traditional version of hypergamy though. Those women just want to marry the highest status man they can, and once (if) they land him, that’s it. They don’t Eat Pray Love divorce him. Social pressure/Islamic culture puts a stop to any further trading up. They… Read more »
“Don’t sleep on the old guys gentlemen. : )”
In that time I’ve had invitations to ‘party’ with at least half a dozen girls from the cast and about 7 extras.”
Good to know… 🙂 You guys should be hittin that. YOLO.
@theasdgamer
“Gamer tells wife he wants a divorce…wife starts chasing…wife begins to instigate for sex and refuses very rarely…sexual frequency is back to “first love” level.”
I wonder if “I want a divorce game” really does work like gangbusters across the board. It’s surely paying dividends for Cave, has anybody else seen a dude pull a frigid wife back into his frame by telling her he wants a divorce?
“I wonder if “I want a divorce game” really does work like gangbusters across the board. ”
I bet it does for guys that have found TRP/Game. I wonder if overt dread is really such a bad thing. What’s the argument against overt dread anyway?
Overt dread would probably backfire if you didn’t have a really solid frame. Just dropping “I want a divorce” on a woman when you don’t actually mean it is just asking for a thermonuclear shit test.
Strange that it works though in this day in age where a mid thirties Mom can find a jacked 25 year old dude on Tinder in 15 minutes…
Supply and demand.
@Andy, keep in mind hypergamy is always aiming top optimize two competing priorities almost against each other. In the perfect world she gets AF and BB in the same package and her life is simple. She can go fuck Chad on tinder but that can throw the BB right out the window, some women might not want to deal with all the mess of a frivorce. It’s always a balance of pain and suffering vs optimization of AF and optimization of BB. Social opprobrium plays into this etc. Thus they will frequently entertain the emotional affair first, followed by physical… Read more »
@agent p
“I’ve said it before, the guy who doesn’t give a shit, or has nothing to lose is the most dangerous person in the room.”
Yeah, I get it. Sounds like overt dread might be a potent weapon as long as you are truly congruent and outcome independent. I might be able to use this in the future.
Re: divorce & dread Oh yeah, works for me. But, keep this in mind… 1. My wife has major insecurities. I think she thinks that she would be forever alone if we split, when in actuality she could bang 100 dudes by this time next year or sooner. (shhhh, don’t tell her that) 2. I have MAJOR beta bucks. I have made $1,000 PER DAY at various times, and average about $800 per day. 3. She only works part time at my insistence. (not that she put up a fight or anything) 4. I intentionally separated from her at one… Read more »
“I WILL blow it all up if needed.
Not one fuck will be given either. Not one.”
Exactly. I think that’s the key. Dude you should try and pull off a pLTR. lol. Do it for the greater good! We need data.
“I WILL blow it all up if needed.” There is no stronger foundation for a LTR than this. In fact, if I was a young man facing down marriage, I’d be sure to clearly state up front what the divorce criteria are. I certainly did so the second time around, and my wife knows there will be no debate. There are many things I’m flexible about, but I laid out the deal breakers up front and showed that I’m capable of ejecting and moving on. It may sting a bit, but I’ll survive, and she knows that I know that.… Read more »
“Exactly. I think that’s the key. Dude you should try and pull off a pLTR. lol. Do it for the greater good! We need data.”
lol
Nah, my frame, MPO, confidence, and self esteem aren’t in a place to even comprehend that, much less do it.
“I wonder if “I want a divorce game” really does work like gangbusters across the board.” “I’d be sure to clearly state up front what the divorce criteria are.” Language matters, gents. “I want a divorce” will probably backfire for most. “I will not hesitate to divorce if my desires aren’t met” is the better option, as Tedd indicates here. Remember, ultimatums indicate a lack of power in the relationship. In my case, I had to threaten divorce just to even start getting what I wanted, which shows a poor frame prior to that, and also poor vetting of my… Read more »
I honestly can’t imagine having to manage more than one woman’s emotional state. I suppose in a pLTR you’re probably only living with one, but you still have to interact with the rest. Of course I have no experience with how well the built in dread tempers female behavior, and that may be the linchpin for the entire setup. To go back to cars: I really only need one. More would be fun, but that fun comes with added costs. As long as I’m getting what I need out of my current car, I don’t want to replace it and… Read more »
My current theory is that by the time your game gets to a point where you could pull off a pLTR from a married frame you would be at a point where actually being in the pLTR wouldn’t advance your game at all.
That would be one of those mindfucks that seem to be so common in life.
Which is why I’m still driving an 05 rofl. It’s paid off and every mile I get now is a bonus!
Ok, back to the car analogy.
I have SEVEN cars.
SEVEN.
Why? Because it is always nice to have a spare…and I get bored driving just one.
Same reason I have 5 different income sources…options.
Now if I could just get more chicks…
@Cave,
I saw earlier in the thread where you mentioned that divorce is off the table for now. Have you actually told her that, or did you just stop talking about it entirely? If you told her, did it seem to change anything in her behavior?
@Gregg “If you want to be a man – then you have burden of performance – but not in order to show off before chicks, but in order to respect yourself, to love the guy that is within you. But DO NOT expect that this will bring you chicks!” That’s true yet your still responsible. @Anonymous Reader “there’s two people who can manage a woman’s emotional states. Either he can do it, nowadays via Game, or he can let her do it. Someone’s going to be in charge. If it’s not you, it’s her. And that will make both miserable.”… Read more »
CaveClown – hahahaha. Well I’m work from home full time now so only need to show my face in the office once or twice a month. And the wife has a SUV so we have two available. And the thing is, I really like my car. It’s a 300 with AWD, and despite duller paint and a few small dings, she still runs perfectly. I know how she drives, can feel when something is wrong, and she has rarely ever let me down. The bad side is she is expensive to repair. But, I know what’s been done to her… Read more »
For multiple cars, it’s probably a better idea to rent or lease.
Liz – I like how you think. 😉
🙂
If it flies, floats, fucks…
But, sometimes even rentals can turn scary:
“Strange that it works though in this day in age where a mid thirties Mom can find a jacked 25 year old dude on Tinder in 15 minutes…” Which is exactly where this 5’8″ guy’s sexual scarcity mindset comes from. I just don’t feel like I can compete. I feel like an alpha in a beta body. “I saw earlier in the thread where you mentioned that divorce is off the table for now. Have you actually told her that, or did you just stop talking about it entirely? If you told her, did it seem to change anything in… Read more »
@andy. to be clear I never said, “I want a divorce” or “I will divorce your ass unless you……”. I simply made clear that I had assessed my options fully. At the time she was down in the dumps, depressed, anxious and so on. She was already wallowing in dread as I had lost 30 lbs and was chatting up chicks here and there. She simply needed to know that I had given careful consideration to the idea and that there was nothing about it that particularly scared me. I made it clear that it was not what I wanted… Read more »
@agent p
” I simply made clear that I had assessed my options fully.”
Hmm, yeah I would still count that as overt dread. To be clear from my end I’m not necessarily talking about threatening divorce. I’m just talking about overt dread.
@andy
The affair I had a few years prior the “divorce research” discussion with a hottie 8 years her junior, that was overt dread.
If I want to spike my wife’s dopamine and cortisol levels I just need to tell her I have a rep coming in to drop off some carpet samples at my office.
My list was short and simple: 1. I will not stay in a sexless marriage again. 2. I won’t tolerate controlling behavior. If you want something, ask. 3. Cheating is an immediate next. No discussion. No make up. Sign these papers and walk away. 4. Take care of me and I’ll take care of you. Slack off on your end and I’ll slack off on mine, which leads back to point 1. Most of that was based on the gotchas in my first marriage. Thing is, simply stating that divorce is always an option kinda resolves the rest from the… Read more »
… has anybody else seen a dude pull a frigid wife back into his frame by telling her he wants a divorce? sure, but it wasn’t an ultimatum I was alpha at time but she hadn’t wanted to recognized it. I told her I found a place I was going to rent and wanted to separate. Told her we could date to see if we could reconnect. She said she would change. Result was a many year fuckfest. A single fuck would usually last an hour, involve multiple activities/positions. She would have strong Os, really physical, but I could care… Read more »
I assume a mans desire for variety is on a curve, but I find it fascinating that most men crave variety so strongly when it comes to sexual partners. For a 45 year old I feel like I have a good drive. (We knock one out on average 5 days a week) But I’ve never found myself so driven by variety as to act on it. Sure, I enjoy seeing hot women, and watch my fair share of porn now and again, but I get the sense that for many/most men it’s a hunger that simply cannot be met by… Read more »
@agent p
That’s sick. I love it. I’m also experimenting with giving my wife the whole “range of emotions.” It’s certainly better than being predictable.
rugby11ljh: There are two kinds of Betas. The nerdy kid in the photo wants a girl, but doesn’t have any attractive externals. He wants God to give him a girl without any work on his part. That Beta needs to perform better. The second kind of Beta has improved his externals, has good hobbies, dresses well enough, works out, has a good job, and is still not getting laid. That guy needs to work on internals, maybe casual social skills, game, whatever. You give a Burden Of Performance message to that Beta and he is just going to think he… Read more »
@andy, just be careful playing with fire you don’t want her turning around and playing the “I can do that too game”. It’s a fine balance where she always needs to believe that she will lose far more than you will if things go off the rails due to anything SHE does or does not do. I had my affair before I discovered the RP, I was just sick of being a provider workhorse in a near sexless marriage to an ungrateful bitch. I saw an opportunity to do something about my situation and I took it. As it happened… Read more »
@teddj4g
wigs and role play man, can go a fair way to satisfying a drive for variety, not all the way, but a fair way. Women, and men need to understand that in any LTR that the car / relationship needs City driving, highway driving, some back roads in the country and some winter with ice driving to keep it in top shape.
Agent P – well shit. I totally missed the concept that costumes, wigs, and change of venue IS sexual variety in and of itself. I retract my previous statement: I crave variety and simply found ways to get it from the same woman. I just never consider what “need” cosplay-sex met, but I’ve always been a fan of dress up. Hell, once or twice the wife and I have gone into a bar separately just so I can “pick her up” for a one night stand. Lol
Thank God I’m not a unicorn!
Is that AF or BB? @Liz, I can leverage both. I had a conversation with an older (30ish) blonde after the shoot. It was for a new years spot, so it kind of played like an early New Year’s Eve party for everyone. I said something about the glitter she had on her chest and she was going to wake up with that on. She tells me she’d like something else on her chest to wake up to, crazy IOIs, ‘lets get out of here’ looks. I learned an interesting lesson on this set: women love dominance, that’s pretty much… Read more »
I assume a mans desire for variety is on a curve, but I find it fascinating that most men crave variety so strongly when it comes to sexual partners
with a new woman I could and would want to fuck her 4 times the first hookup, but someone I had already fucked a hundred times I didn’t want to go up to bat 4 times. So my dick craved variety, and that applies even to looking at porn, my dick prefers the new girl
Not straying too far off topic but…the Paris raids…this woman…wtf. So your apartment gets busted in by the French police, bullets raining in through doors and walls and once inside the cops in masks screams “Where is your boyfriend!???” and your first response, with automatic guns pointing at you is: “He’s NOT my boyfriend!!” ???? 😞😒✋
Get your priorities in order. This isn’t about you.
Redlight – been with my wife going on 7 years and every time she wears yoga pants around the house and bends over, my dick twitches. I sincerely enjoy fucking her every chance I get, and I still get multiple sessions in on the weekends.
Your point is very interesting though. Wonder how many guys with ED are married with your inclination for variety? (Not counting the guys stuck with land whales here. Every man has a boner threshold…)
@Rollo “FWIW, I’ve been shooting a brand commercial for the last 3 days. In that time I’ve had invitations to ‘party’ with at least half a dozen girls from the cast and about 7 extras. All were no less than HB8s on my very demanding scale, all were between 23 and 30. And 4 of them know I’m married.” Life goal when I get my money/career handled is to have a condo in Vegas that I can spend parts of the year in for reasons like this lol I’m single, I can spend my money however foolishly I want. 😀… Read more »
@Rollo
So what do you think about making this (teaching the redpill) to our fellowmen your own passion?
Obviously if you can become great at it and make it your own MPO to study more about it, research, practice and document your experiences?
I got confused cause you cited the case of Roosh and how it ends.
So,
What is your take on making this your passion, getting to the truth and teaching it (maintaining yourself as your MPO)?
Thank you
@GS
Covered this last week:
http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/10/the-purple-pill/
I mentioned the last question because I’ve been literally passioned about human behavior, mating, pua, and now red pill since the last 10 years
@Ted “That being said, solo sex doesn’t help in that regard at all. Rubbing one out only dulls the edge of that knife and without actual sex with an actual woman over time it builds to critical levels. I’m not sure what that would look like for me now, but I don’t intend to find out.” The warmth http://www.united-academics.org/journal/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/6.-BookAndAuthor1.pdf Of a women “Hell, once or twice the wife and I have gone into a bar separately just so I can “pick her up” for a one night stand. Lol” Nice now that’s settle dread that’s just awesome to read. What… Read more »
“I got confused cause you cited the case of Roosh and how it ends.”
How long do you suppose a passion for irrigating lush gardens would last in the face of digging ditches for living?
Until some time in the 19th century, “amateur” signified the highest level of expertise. In many cases, even though common perception has been reversed, it still does, as a professional cannot afford to do the job right.
r/deadbedroom posting today: After being frustrated and hurt by my girlfriend’s declining sex drive and constant rejections, and after several talks and lots of tears over the past month, I decided I had no choice but to break up with her. It was hurting too much. We both love each other so much but this one issue was destroying our otherwise perfect relationship. We sat down last night, I told her what had to happen with our circumstances. And we cried. A lot. And then something happened … And then we had the best sex we’ve had in at least… Read more »
YaReally – so with a pLTR you only manage the P and let the rest fend for themselves? Sort of what I imagined. I’m a bit at a loss as to what’s in it for the extra girls outside of sex and attention. Do they often snag beta BFs as well to get the BB needs met? Honestly, I find managing my wife’s moods relatively easy, and so far our rough spots pass quickly. Part of that is I’ve learned not to get pulled down to her level and beaten by her experience. Put another way: I don’t let shit… Read more »
@rugby11ljh @kgf Thank you for your response. I think I didn’t write my question properly (English is not my 1st) What I meant is that, for example, I’m planning to do a self development business as a way of living, I know that there are a lot of blue/purple pill coaches out there. What I have as an idea is to embrace the red pill truths (to the ones who are willing to take it) and teach them to fellow men and coming generations as a way of living. Speaking about what you guys were telling about Roosh and how… Read more »
Hello, Folks. I took a little hiatus from Game stuff in general, realizing that I needed to do more and read less. Came back to read this post and wanted to put my two cents in, illustrate the difficulty of transitioning to Blue to Red Pill mindset, and maybe get some insight. I have read a goddamn boatload on the Game in the last few years, and I think a decent spread of knowledge and takes on it, from PUA to MGTOW and back. Learned a lot, absorbed some also, but reached a saturation point where reading was going to… Read more »
YaReally – that link to hunt vs pleasure is great! Thanks for the share.
@seraph
The point is, this shit is exhausting
not to the alpha, who just thinks I met a babe would likely wants to hook up and sorts out logistics
FR how it turns out
“The point is, this shit is exhausting”
Maybe read YaReallys link: http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?2541-Thrill-of-the-Hunt-men-vs-Pleasure-of-Sex-men
Re: Variety. I love variety in women/sex, but when I find myself married I tend not to stray and the urge to pursue a wide variety of women for sex becomes blunted greatly. It’s not conscience, it just happens. But when I’m in an ltr/marriage, I’m DRIVEN hard towards my chick. When tedd refers to the ” yoga pants ” thing, I’m with him 100%. Years and years into my first marriage I was constantly attacking my wife. She was always nervous around me and that only made me hornier. I can’t tell you how many panties and bras I’d… Read more »
Seraph, sounds fun. I love that coy back and forth when a chick is interested. I think I enjoy that more than the actual fuck. Quite a few of those in my life that I did not take advantage of…
Yareally,
I know, if I don’t think I’m attractive no one else will either.
I walked the earth for over 30 years with not a single fuck given by me about my height. Now I can’t get it out my head.
Fuck!
@teddj4g “YaReally – so with a pLTR you only manage the P and let the rest fend for themselves?” More or less. You have your Primary that gets the full girlfriend experience and Provider benefits and the Secondaries are a level below that (less special perks but more than the next level of girls, these are basically your regular/causal fuckbuddies who get no Provider benefits) and below that are the Tertiary girls who are basically randoms, One Night Stands, and rare fuckbuddies or fuckbuddies you don’t like much lol “I’m a bit at a loss as to what’s in it… Read more »
@CaveClown “I walked the earth for over 30 years with not a single fuck given by me about my height. Now I can’t get it out my head.” It’s so absurd to me because you’re not even short lol I’m 5’9″ and my main wingman right now is 5’8″ and I’ve gone out with the gamut of heights from 5’2″ to like 6’8″ or some shit (dude was retardedly tall). Tall guys have all sorts of problems infield too, from it being awkward to talk to girls having to bend down and hunch over a bunch, to not being able… Read more »
“Is doing it your passion and, therefore one of your sources of income… losing your Mental Point of Origin?” You will find that you are employed by your customers and driven by the P&L statement. You are likely to find yourself going the way of Tucker Max, Athol Kay and Roosh. The problem is that your “therefore” is spurious. It simply does not follow. My advice is to find something that you enjoy doing for money and make the money your passion in that pursuit. Use the money to follow your other passions for their own sake. If you make… Read more »
Yareally,
Thanks for the tough love.
Yeah sex with shorter chicks is better. Best I’ve ever had was like 5’3″. I picked her up and literraly threw her on the bed.
Wife is 2″ taller than I, and the sex is good but less…correctly sized lol.
@G S “You guys are really inspiring. Where were this space when I was 20” In the mind of a man… Everywhere but here. “Is doing it your passion and, therefore one of your sources of income… losing your Mental Point of Origin? Even if it’s the thing that attracts you the most, the one you’re dos curious about and the one you’re always thinking/reflexing, reading about?” Money changes the way you talk about the red pill… Kfg summed it up well. part of why I enjoy being here is that Rollos stable not to need money as a threat… Read more »
@shortpeople
I’m 10″ taller than my wife, I found that I preferred short, tight, world class booty in bed. This seemed unfair to tall women, such as super models, and was stealing away from what shorter guys could catch, so I felt guilty for a minute
Japan is such a lost and fucked up place. And they can’t blame Godzilla either.
@YEAREALLY Idk how to respond to you directly but I just wanted to comment on the situation with <25yo in 2015. I've been working alot and don't care for drinking alcohol anymore since I'm mid-30s also. Because of that I've been spending time on Tinder and the other online dating apps. The look that the <25yo give you when you start escalating on them is hilarious. Now I understand that their mindset is different because they are meeting up with me after messaging on the online app and then texting than it would be if I met them at a… Read more »
Model Stina Sanders Loses Thousands of Followers After She Over-Shares Her Unflattering Real-Life Beauty Regimen (people.com)
https://www.instagram.com/p/-I2Edun-HD/
wait a second, we are not getting the real thing?
Thanks to the FI, we should not shame women’s body images, and if I find a tall, huge woman* with no ass, I should be blessed to have to fuck her
* or somebody who identifies as a woman
@ Balls
BEFORE meeting up with her she texted me once every 12 hrs or so, but since meeting up she replies within 5mins every time.
This is good. My text to a broad this a.m. was replied to within a minute of me sending it. She probably replied as soon as she got it. And she asked for a meetup. “Are you going to xxxx? on Sunday?” She was.
Yareally on Rollo : @Rollo “I learned an interesting lesson on this set: women love dominance, that’s pretty much a maxim in TRP, but women get tingles from being directed by a dominant man. Women love to see a dominant man being obeyed (even if just casually) by other men in an endeavor, and they love to see other women follow his direction, but they tingle like nothing else for a man who directs them personally after having others follow his direction.” Yareally : “Classic Mystery Method. 🙂 Preselection, Leader of Men, Protector of Loved Ones, Willingness to Emote, and… Read more »
So Verbal Kint (aka Keyser Soze), some of us aren’t losing our heads. The quotes attributed to Rollo and YaReally in the above first two paragraphs fall in line with maxims about attraction women have for men. Now I’m sure Rollo didn’t just learn an interesting lesson on his recent promotional shoot set. More likely he confirmed what he already knew. I’d like to take what they said a bit further into LTR game. It is important in an LTR or married man game to not lose themselves in the relationship, but to go out and game both independently and… Read more »
DD…yes women have power but it is not easy for them either. The 20s year olds on my on are working 50 to 60 hours a week on $45 000 a year in cities like NY. On top of this they have to look good, stay slim, eat healthy, shave on top of laundry, grocery shopping etc. Then they have to deal with other women being jealous and nasty and stabbing them in the back as well as competition with them for the best males in a limited fertile time window and trying to avoid losers awkwardly hitting on them.… Read more »
@ Dutchman
Overt dread would probably backfire if you didn’t have a really solid frame. Just dropping “I want a divorce” on a woman when you don’t actually mean it is just asking for a thermonuclear shit test.
True. And I did want a divorce.
@ SJF
It is important in an LTR or married man game to not lose themselves in the relationship, but to go out and game both independently and with their LTR partner in social settings as Rollo explains well in his explainations of soft dread. Keep in mind soft dread is not the goal in starting out, but more properly, the outcome of an alpha mindset and a dominant male socially interacting well with both men and women.
Yes. You don’t set out to create Dread. You set out to practice your game and create options.
Going on further, some cut and past from South’s same book on how not to be a Beta, how to be Alpha. (Admittedly, the following cut and paste is kind of silly because it can be found in pretty much any for sale book on how to pick up woman. But it is on point with the current discussion of don’t hate the beta (out loud). And it backs up Rollo’s and YaReally’s statements. It backs up the demonstrated wisdom of men that have been with a lot of women and “just get it”. The following paragraphs preceded the former… Read more »
In regards to Dread. I know Andy only comes out during business hours. And I’m not bagging on him. His question about “why not employ nuclear dread during normal relationships?” was well answered. But Andy, you would do well to go back and re-read Rollo’s original essay on Dread Games as well as the in-essay link to Heartiste’s essay on dread. Soft dread is the rule until nuclear dread is the only option of last resort. And you don’t want to be a child playing with thermonuclear options that aren’t warranted any more than you want to screw up a… Read more »
@SJF “I’d like to take what they said a bit further into LTR game. It is important in an LTR or married man game to not lose themselves in the relationship, but to go out and game both independently and with their LTR partner in social settings as Rollo explains well in his explainations of soft dread. Keep in mind soft dread is not the goal in starting out, but more properly, the outcome of an alpha mindset and a dominant male socially interacting well with both men and women.” Will keep this up went to a new dance this… Read more »
Andy, “The TV I’ve watched recently is just disgusting. Maybe it’s just the shows I’ve been watching but I can’t even think of a show in the last 5 years that had a benevolent Alpha.” I’d name Vikings. Of course as a show based on Norse sagas they got to have ones. Ragnar in particular is very dominant and self-interested but it’s all for the good of his people too. theasdgamer, “Since the UMC experiences only about a 20% divorce rate, why don’t we see more encouragement for men to aim for UMC status before marrying (hopefully, a high-salaried woman)?”… Read more »
@Seraph Good too see ya back! I think I might take a similar break soon to hit the field. Re: your field report – as a dude who’s trying to deflect a bit too much interest from co-workers right now… It really sounds like this girl is trying to fuck ya. Even past the point of opening herself to banter – the the point that she’s creating logistics for you. I’ve gotten 1-3 facebook comments with the tone of that one before, and they’ve all been from girls that are pretty crazy about me. Look at how much she sounds… Read more »
Finding a women to f*ck is easy, finding one you want to keep around is much harder. The problem/benefit with/of RP is that it lets you see women for what they really are. In some ways it is easer living the BP fantasy. Of the last five dates I was on, I was so unimpressed with four women, I did not even waste my time giving them the impression I was going to call and the fifth I just got up and walked out on because she was so shallow/predictable. A friend of mine says its because they were not… Read more »
Thanks all for responses and input, folks. I sent the following message to her on her private email, from MY private email, not the one she had sent initial message to: “Good to see you too… Wish I could have stayed longer to chat but was meeting a friend. Next week or so is a bit busy and my schedule is changing but I would love to catch up. I will email you to figure out a time and place. Early afternoons work best for me next couple of months.” I waited until the following morning to send it. The… Read more »
@Forge “That said, you need to congruently feel that that is the case before it can really happen. This is why having a mindset wherein OF COURSE all girls are thinking about sex and want to fuck you is helpful, even if it’s not literally true – bc otherwise as a non-natural you tend to have more self-doubt than is warranted. HOWEVER, that self-doubt will be picked up upon and blow the whole thing up if you carry it forward into your pull. Ball’s in your court dude. Thank you. Exactly what I needed to hear and what I was… Read more »
@yaReally “To me he could go have a handful of girls on the go and have variety and way less drama and frustration and just enjoy the New Relationship Energy mode ” Yeah, anyone that denies missing that New Relationship Energy mode is lying their ass off. I was thinking that maybe someone with game like you might be able extend that mode indefinitely. I don’t know why it makes me feel better that it happens to everyone. haha. @Rugby Thanks for the link to that Practical female psychology book. Awesome read. Just finished it and I’m going to start… Read more »
Yes Andy, “I have set up a permanent residence in that gigantic brain of yours. lol.” Yes you have. Seems as though I was once in your position 20 years ago with small children and keeping frame with a wife who’s energy was directed at the children. And I wish someone would have told me half of what I know now. Although I pretty much figured things out well on my own, It’s easier to trace from what others have done rather than draw things up fresh. “Anyway, rest your pretty little soul my man.” Actually, I don’t have the… Read more »
🙂 Love you man. I appreciate it.
“Which by the way reminds me of the TV series Breaking Bad. You should watch that.” The first episode of that show will forever be a reminder to me of how far I have come. When she is giving him an unenthusiastic HJ for his birthday, while on her laptop… “Relax honey, this is for you” Makes me want to throw up thinking I had a six month period or so where I was that bad. (then I got fucking pissed off as all hell) My “flash of alpha” took longer to kick in than it should have, lol. http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/01/flashes-of-alpha/… Read more »
Around a married couple? Start a conversation about Breaking Bad and then bring up the HJ birthday scene.
The vast majority of the time (i’ve done this with like 4 couples), the man will look ashamed and the girl will look guilty.
Good fun.
I did this with my sister and her husband too. My sister’s response?
“That fucking bitch! Why would he put up with that!?”
My BIL ain’t no beta.
Oh boy… This one took the bait.
“Oh bravo Shonda Rhimes!! Showing an abortion on TV! Yay!! Because it’s her choice! Who cares if the father didn’t know about the pregnancy! Because it’s her body! Because FEMINISM!!!!!!”
http://i.giphy.com/owbp1CzIuv8Ig.gif
http://www.bustle.com/articles/125163-olivia-pope-had-an-abortion-on-scandal-it-was-a-brave-unprecedented-move
Keep in mind about Breaking Bad that: Walter White is actually just a deeply flawed, egocentric, megalomaniac who under achieved his whole life. When he got a taste of success and power, he didn’t know how to handle the validation he had been seeking his whole life, and it destroyed him. Don’t be that guy. Don’t let personal validation be your thumbscrew (…..heads up CaveClown). And Skyler White sure is a buzzkill, like most wives in a LTR. As they say, behind every successful man, there is a strong, wise and hardworking woman ready to kill her husband if he… Read more »
@Balls Thanks for the data points. There’s always the worry of like “hmm maybe I’m just getting too old, maybe my game is just getting shitty” and of course there’s always a handful of guys lined up to say “BRO IF YOU HAD A 6-PACK SHE WOULDN’T FLAKE” (ignoring that she’s flaking on TONS of good-looking rich dudes chasing her offering her free dinners and shit lol) but my buddy is running into this as well and it looks like the RSD guys are too, and you etc etc so while we need way more data points to come to… Read more »
This is the only Bryan Cranston I know lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa1tpMb6EBM I haven’t watched Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones or Vikings or Mad Men or Arrow or Gotham or Flash or 30 Rock or Modern Family etc etc because I was sarging while other people were watching that stuff. I’m sure they’re awesome shows and I’m sure I missed out on some great pop culture stuff, and I’ll probably catch up on them one day when I’m like 60 and settled down bored and ready to just consume passive entertainment all day long… but like…any SINGLE guy who’s unhappy with… Read more »
“Don’t be that guy. Don’t let personal validation be your thumbscrew (…..heads up CaveClown).”
Goddamn it SJF, how do you know me better than I know myself?
You are 100% right.
100%
I need to harden myself back up and quit being a bitch.
Because jesus christ, look what I’ve accomplished in life! Holy shit I’m a badass when I choose to be.
Fuck anyone that doesn’t agree. Who cares what they think?
BB is the only show I have watched in the last decade, and only because I had heard it called “breaking beta” so often that I figured I’d watch it.
Fuck TV, I’d rather be lifting, or fucking, or learning, or building my biz, or teaching my kids, or socializing, or whatever.
Video games too. I spent most my teenage years playing that shit, fuck that. My kids aren’t allowed to play video games at all.
TV will destroy an LTR easy enough too. (she gets bored)
@yaReally Funny I was just reading first comment where you mentioned The Great Happiness Space in the Archive when you mentioned it somewhere on this thread. Great documentary. I saw it whenever it was first on Netflix. The end where they reveal who most of their clients were was a huge mindfuck. It was so foreign to me what was so great about those guys. I need to re-watch it. @Cave “TV will destroy an LTR easy enough too. (she gets bored)” Yeah… It’s kind of a crutch. It’s kind of like the same as it is with kids. If… Read more »
“Yeah… It’s kind of a crutch. It’s kind of like the same as it is with kids. If I’m tired or I just can’t take one more conversation about what to get who for Christmas I’ll just turn it on to shut her up. lol.(Note to self, tease her about Christmas gift obsession to change the subject). Good god that’s horrible. Horrible, but true.” I told my wife the other day that we should get her mom a vibrating butt plug for christmas. So yeah, teasing is good. Here’s one thing I learned about marriage. Dating or FWB type situations… Read more »
@CaveClown “BB is the only show I have watched in the last decade, and only because I had heard it called “breaking beta” so often that I figured I’d watch it. ” I actually think that’s why it did so well. From what I gather it’s a show about a beta chode who basically takes control of his life and becomes a badass. Pretty sure there’s a huge audience of frustrated depressed guys out there who wish they could do the same but have to settle for living it vicariously through TV shows. @Andy Ya the whole thing is super… Read more »
@CaveClown yup part of my pLTR breakdown is about making yourself scarce, having a private separate office maybe even in another part of the city, having a 2nd apartment you can spend the night at now and then (get into a fight? just be gone for a couple days, sleeping in comfort instead of in the same house on the couch or engaging her drama), being out with the boys and not txting her, go film a liquor commercial with a bunch of hot vegas models, etc lol In the PUA community we call it “give her the gift of… Read more »
“In the PUA community we call it “give her the gift of missing you”. I think it’s key and would be a big part of if I ever settled into a pLTR.” Hard to do in an LTR if that frame was not already established, especially if there are kids at home. Even worse if she is a “choreplay” type of chick and wants him home to help out. Or if she is the type of chick that will counter with “girl’s night out” (by then the battle is lost anyway, if you want her to be monogamous) Gotta set… Read more »
“So, make yourself more scarce. Even when I am home, I am not really “there””
Good call. In my case the poor woman will go days at a time where I’m the only adult she has a real conversation with. Which is a bitch because not only do I have to worry about my mission, but I find myself micro managing her life so that her heirarchy of needs are meet to the point where I can get her in a good head-space. Co-dependent type of thing…
““I’m not good enough because I’m 5’8″” lol like what?? Social conditioning has fucked men up so bad.”
lol
I hear ya man, I hear ya.
“Good call. In my case the poor woman will go days at a time where I’m the only adult she has a real conversation with. Which is a bitch because not only do I have to worry about my mission, but I find myself micro managing her life so that her heirarchy of needs are meet to the point where I can get her in a good head-space. Co-dependent type of thing…” Ahhhh, now I see. Know how many friends my wife had about 2 years ago? None. Not one. 1. That means I was the only adult to meet… Read more »
Another thought on being “scarce” in an LTR… It keeps your game fresh. How can you game a woman you are always around? It just gets old, for her and you. TV is a shit test. Lazy evenings are a shit test. (unless that’s what y’all need at that time, like when sick) The internet and being on your phone instead of focusing on your mission or playing with your woman is a shit test. I work a good 55-65 hours a week at my main meal ticket. I understand that evenings are tough to maintain energy (especially this time… Read more »
“Know how many friends my wife had about 2 years ago? None. Not one.” It’s not quite THAT bad. I suggest all these things for her to do when I get home, and she just talks about being too tired. Which I can’t deny that she is many times. I think I’ll just sign her up for an art class or some shit and literally kick her out of the door if necessary. Part of it is that life just kind of sucks right now. “I also enlisted the help of my sister, who has quite a few female friends.… Read more »